Who would you rather have on your team, Iggy or Joe Johnson?

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

I would much rather have Igoudala on my team. He is one of if not the best perimeter defender in the league and a good canditate for DPOY. He isn't the go to option that Joe Johnson is, but he literally does everything else better. Rebounding, running the break, defense, passing, finishing, etc. He is a much superior all around player and can fit in with a variety of casts. Oh and Iggy is shooting better from threepoint land this year as well. His three point shot is good this year, he just needs to completely get rid of the long twos.

Joe Johnson on the other hand offers little to a game unless he is shooting the ball efficiently and is hot. He doesn't get to the rim as easily, he isn't half the defender. He is just a better overall scorer, but is the tradeoff worth it?

Most casual fans would choose Joe Johnson with ease, but I am eager to see what ISH picks.

[Poodle]

jeremy lin

[ripthekik]

jeremy lin as well.

[xoneatom]

-__- but to seriously answer the question between iggy and jj, Id pick Lin.

[NumberSix]

Iggy. I still laugh at the idea of Joe Johnson being a max contract player. lol.

[StateOfMind12]

I would rather have Joe Johnson on my team because the Bulls need scoring and JJ would provide that. Plus JJ is a two-guard while Iggy is a 3 and the Bulls already have Deng at the 3 and he is better than both of these guys in my opinion.

As for who is better? I would still go with Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is a much better scorer and shooter like you said and I think he is comparable with Iggy in most other aspects of the game as well.

I don't think Iggy has much of an edge on JJ in terms of passing/playmaking. JJ had seasons with Atlanta where he averaged 5-6 apg. The only thing that is changed is that JJ acutally has a PG or at least a natural PG to play with now (Teague, Hinrich) where before when he averaged around 5-6 apg he didn't have a PG. He is also playing less minutes these days compared to the days when he did average 5-6 apg. Before JJ was playing with Mike Bibby who is obviously a shoot-first, score-first PG so JJ was responsible for the team's playmaking duties. Now that Bibby is gone and Teague and Hinrich are in, JJ no longer has that responsibility. I don't JJ has necessarily regressed as a passer/playmaker but has simply just taken a different role.

However, in my opinion assists are not necessarily the best indicator for playmaking and passing skills though and I think assists are relatively actually overvalued and overrated. I do think the edge goes to Iggy but it is actally close.

Iggy is the better defender than JJ here and there is no question about it, however I don't think JJ is a stiff on defense though. I have never heard anyone complain or talk about how JJ's defense sucks. JJ is an above average defender so while Iggy does have an advantage here. I don't think it's nearly as big as some people make it as.

As for their rebounding, Iggy is superior again and the numbers do show it. However, I do think that it's not fair to compare their absolute numbers because they play different positions. Joe plays the shooting guard position while Iggy plays the small forward position so obviously Iggy will and should average and get more rebounds than him. Iggy is superior but it isn't by much especially if we compare them pound for pound.

Let me sum this up, Joe Johnson is the much better scorer and shooter while Iggy is better at every other aspect but not as much as you or most people make it out of. I think Joe's superior scoring and shooting advantages make him superior player than Iguodala. I can think of plenty of players who aren't better all-around players than another but better overall players.

Would anyone say Andre Iguodala was better overall player than Kevin Durant back in '09-'10? I mean Iggy was the better all-around player than Durant was. Iggy was the better passer, better rebounder, and easily a better defender. I can almost guarantee most people would have said Durant was better that season.

Would anyone say Stephen Jackson was better overall player than Paul Pierce back in '09-'10? I mean Jackson was the better all-around player than Pierce was. Jackson was the better passer, better rebounder, and probably a better defender. I can almost guarantee most people would have said Pierce was better that season.

You get the point? I think scoring can make that much of a difference especially when JJ is that much superior than Iggy at that aspect.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

I would rather have Joe Johnson on my team because the Bulls need scoring and JJ would provide that. Plus JJ is a two-guard while Iggy is a 3 and the Bulls already have Deng at the 3 and he is better than both of these guys in my opinion.

As for who is better? I would still go with Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is a much better scorer and shooter like you said and I think he is comparable with Iggy in most other aspects of the game as well.

I don't think Iggy has much of an edge on JJ in terms of passing/playmaking. JJ had seasons with Atlanta where he averaged 5-6 apg. The only thing that is changed is that JJ acutally has a PG or at least a natural PG to play with now (Teague, Hinrich) where before when he averaged around 5-6 apg he didn't have a PG. He is also playing less minutes these days compared to the days when he did average 5-6 apg. Before JJ was playing with Mike Bibby who is obviously a shoot-first, score-first PG so JJ was responsible for the team's playmaking duties. Now that Bibby is gone and Teague and Hinrich are in, JJ no longer has that responsibility. I don't JJ has necessarily regressed as a passer/playmaker but has simply just taken a different role.

However, in my opinion assists are not necessarily the best indicator for playmaking and passing skills though and I think assists are relatively actually overvalued and overrated. I do think the edge goes to Iggy but it is actally close.

Iggy is the better defender than JJ here and there is no question about it, however I don't think JJ is a stiff on defense though. I have never heard anyone complain or talk about how JJ's defense sucks. JJ is an above average defender so while Iggy does have an advantage here. I don't think it's nearly as big as some people make it as.

As for their rebounding, Iggy is superior again and the numbers do show it. However, I do think that it's not fair to compare their absolute numbers because they play different positions. Joe plays the shooting guard position while Iggy plays the small forward position so obviously Iggy will and should average and get more rebounds than him. Iggy is superior but it isn't by much especially if we compare them pound for pound.

Let me sum this up, Joe Johnson is the much better scorer and shooter while Iggy is better at every other aspect but not as much as you or most people make it out of. I think Joe's superior scoring and shooting advantages make him superior player than Iguodala. I can think of plenty of players who aren't better all-around players than another but better overall players.

Would anyone say Stephen Jackson was better overall player than Kevin Durant back in '09-'10? I mean Jackson was the better all-around player than Pierce was. Jackson was the better passer, better rebounder, and probably a better defender. I can almost guarantee most people would have said Durant was better that season.

Would anyone say Stephen Jackson was better overall player than Paul Pierce back in '09-'10? I mean Jackson was the better all-around player than Pierce was. Jackson was the better passer, better rebounder, and probably a better defender. I can almost guarantee most people would have said Pierce was better that season.

You get the point? I think scoring can make that much of a difference especially when JJ is that much superior than Iggy at that aspect.

Kevin Durant is a guy who can lead your team to a title. That is the difference. In this comparison Johnsons only advantage is scoring and the 5 extra PPG isn't enough to look over all of Igoudalas other advantages. You are not winning a title with either of these guys as your best players, but Iggy is a much better complimentary player as he brings more overall to the table. If Joe Johnson was a guy capable of averaging 25+ PPG and was more dominant overall, you may have a point. When he isn't scoring he does not impact the game at all . Give me Igoudala over that bum 7 days a week.

And their defense isn't close at all. Igoudala is right up there with Tony Allen as the best perimeter defenders in the league. Best. In. The. League. Yeahhh feels good man. He anchors a top ranked D from the perimeter. It's amazing Philly's D is as good as it is with their ***** bigmen, and Igoudala is a big reason why.

[StateOfMind12]

You are not winning a title with either of these guys as your best players, but Iggy is a much better complimentary player as he brings more overall to the table. When he isn't scoring he does not impact the game at all . Give me Igoudala over that bum 7 days a week.
I think you are really underrating JJ's all-around game. I do think JJ would be a much better 2nd option than Iggy is. JJ is probably the more proven 1st option as well since he was able to get past the 1st round being the 1st round although he couldn't get past the 2nd round. Iggy on the other hand couldn't get the past the 1st round and actually had some trouble even getting to the playoffs as the 1st option.

I think JJ would be a better 2nd option to a Dwight Howard than Andre Iguodala would. I think there are more situations where JJ would thrive and fit in than Iggy would. Iggy has some eye-popping weaknesses in his game while JJ actually doesn't have any, at least eye-popping ones. Can you honestly list some of the weaknesses JJ has and in terms of ability? I can name quite a few for Iggy.

JJ is pretty much good at everything but while he may not be better than Iggy at most of those things, it is still close. I think JJ's scoring superiorities overcome those differences though.



And their defense isn't close at all. Igoudala is right up there with Tony Allen as the best perimeter defenders in the league. Best. In. The. League. Yeahhh feels good man. He anchors a top ranked D from the perimeter. It's amazing Philly's D is as good as it is with their ***** bigmen, and Igoudala is a big reason why.
I think you're somewhat underrating JJ's D. It's a tier or two below Iggy in terms of perimeter defense since Iggy is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league with Deng and Allen. Still, I don't think JJ is a stiff defensively, I actually think JJ is actually a good defender, good, but not great. I guess that's the difference between JJ and Iggy's defense.

I think the scoring gaps between these two is bigger between than their defensive differences though but that is just my opinon.

[alenleomessi]

JJ can win games and take over the 4th quarter... when was the last time Iggy did that?

[TKstyle]

100% IGGY!!!

He is a glue guy that would make make any contending team into championship winners.

Take him out of Philly and they suck again. I hope Evan Turner moulds himself on Iggy's game, although I doubt he will ever be half the defender Iggy is.

Put Iggy down as a lock for DPOY bar any injury for the rest of the season

[Clutch]

Jeremy Lin.

But if I really need to chose between Iggy and Joe I'll pick Iggy.

[StateOfMind12]

JJ can win games and take over the 4th quarter... when was the last time Iggy did that?
Indeed, that is the neat thing about a good scorer and a great shooter which is something Iggy isn't much of.

Iggy isn't much of a 2nd option in my opinion more like a 3rd or 4th option while JJ is a 2nd option and would be a tremendous 3rd option. I think everyone here saw how good Joe Johnson was when he was with the Suns in '04-'05 when he was the 3rd-4th option on that team.

[FireDavidKahn]

I'll take Lin:pimp:

As for the OP, Iggy by far. I value defense a lot.

[Reverend Hoops]

When has Iggy carried a team to the playoffs?

[roffie]

right now..? iggy. but if prime JJ is available, i'll take him. easy.

[FindingTim]

tough call, but I gotta go with Lin.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

I think you are really underrating JJ's all-around game. I do think JJ would be a much better 2nd option than Iggy is. JJ is probably the more proven 1st option as well since he was able to get past the 1st round being the 1st round although he couldn't get past the 2nd round. Iggy on the other hand couldn't get the past the 1st round and actually had some trouble even getting to the playoffs as the 1st option.

I think JJ would be a better 2nd option to a Dwight Howard than Andre Iguodala would. I think there are more situations where JJ would thrive and fit in than Iggy would. Iggy has some eye-popping weaknesses in his game while JJ actually doesn't have any, at least eye-popping ones. Can you honestly list some of the weaknesses JJ has and in terms of ability? I can name quite a few for Iggy.

JJ is pretty much good at everything but while he may not be better than Iggy at most of those things, it is still close. I think JJ's scoring superiorities overcome those differences though.


I think you're somewhat underrating JJ's D. It's a tier or two below Iggy in terms of perimeter defense since Iggy is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league with Deng and Allen. Still, I don't think JJ is a stiff defensively, I actually think JJ is actually a good defender, good, but not great. I guess that's the difference between JJ and Iggy's defense.

I think the scoring gaps between these two is bigger between than their defensive differences though but that is just my opinon.

Joe Johnson is not a better combo player to pair up with over Igoudala on any team. Joe Johnsons one advantage in past years was perimeter shooting. Igoudala is shooting a career high 39.5% from three point range this year and he takes a respectable number of them. Joe Johnson shoots 38% in comparison. Igoudala has a reputation as a guy who can't shoot, but the truth is he is a very good shooter this year for the Sixers and has been able to knock down that outside shot consistantly. His midrange shooting still leaves much to be desired, but long two's are some of the least efficient shots in basketball regardless of the player. Igoudala is better at finishing inside as he is one of the most athletic players in the league and even has the edge in three point shooting this year.

Joe Johnson used to be a much better player, but he is too one dimensional now. He used to be a much more dynamic player, but now he is all about the jump shots and offers little else to the game at all. He literally does NOTHING if he isn't making shots on the court. Igoudala can have 4 points and 2-7 shooting, but will still be having a high impact on the game because he consistantly gets the toughest defensive matchups, is a great rebounder, passer, can run the floor with the best of them. Igoudala can do it all for teams. His only fault is that he is not a good go to scorer when you need someone to create that basket in the halfcourt. Joe Johnson isn't that amazing at it either and a team will not be good leading on him.

Less than 4 RPG for a 6'7 guy? Same size as Igoudala, but he plays like a *****. Joe Johnson is one of the guys in the league he least uses his size. Such a waste. If this was a few years ago I'd take Joe Johnson when he could average 25 PPG and take games over, but he is not that guy anymore and hasn't been the best player on Atlanta for years now since Al Horford has emerged.

And please.. Joe Johnson gets put on some random shooter defensively. He never "steps it up" and guards top guys in crucial moments. Give me Igoudala, an athletic beast who can even stroke it now. Not some overpaid shooting guard in his 30s who plays with a ******.

Here are the last 10 games Johnson has played vs Igoudala which includes all of 2009-the present.

Game 1: 25 points, 7-18 shooting 38%, L
Game 2: 11 points, 3-9 shooting 33% L
Game 3: 9 points, 3-8 shooting 37% W
Game 4: 18 points, 6-13 shooting 46% W
Game 5: 20 points, 7-13 shooting 53% L
Game 6: 22 points, 6-10 shooting 60% W
Game 7: 6 points, 3-8 shooting 37% L
Game 8: 13 points, 5-14 shooting 35% L
Game 9: 8 points, 3-8 shooting 37% L
Game 10: 16 points, 7-16 shooting 43% shooting L

So Joe Johnson is 3-7 vs Igoudala in his last ten games and he is averaging 14.8 PPG on abysmal percentages. When he plays Igoudala, his only asset is taken away while he is near useless as Igoudala takes over the game with his defense and all around game. He is clearly better.


When has Iggy carried a team to the playoffs?

Try when he was averaging 18-20 PPG to go along with his other intangibles. Collins has transformed him into a defensive specialist that will offer whatever talents he can on offense. He is not relied upon offensively to create and it is the perfect role for him. He is the most worthy East reserve aside from Chris Bosh.

When was the last time anyone took a Joe Johnson team seriously? Oh yeah Phoenix. The Sixers this year are better than the Hawks ever were with Joe Johnson.

[dyna]

Joe..

[StateOfMind12]

Joe Johnson is not a better combo player to pair up with over Igoudala on any team.
I would take a combo of Joe Johnson and Dwight Howard over a combo of Andre Iguodala and Dwight Howard so I'm not sure if I agree with you on this.

There are certain situations where Iggy might be a better fit than Joe though but more times than not I think JJ would be an easier and better fit.

I think in a run and gun system, Iggy is the guy you would rather have since he is the better athlete but in a slow-down, walk it up pace, you would be better with JJ since he is the better shooter and scorer.


Joe Johnsons one advantage in past years was perimeter shooting. Igoudala is shooting a career high 39.5% from three point range this year and he takes a respectable number of them. Joe Johnson shoots 38% in comparison. Igoudala has a reputation as a guy who can't shoot, but the truth is he is a very good shooter this year for the Sixers and has been able to knock down that outside shot consistantly. His midrange shooting still leaves much to be desired, but long two's are some of the least efficient shots in basketball regardless of the player. Igoudala is better at finishing inside as he is one of the most athletic players in the league and even has the edge in three point shooting this year.
You have to factor in how many 3s both of those two take per game. Iggy takes about 3 per game while JJ takes about 5 per game. The fact that JJ is only like 1.5% behind Iggy despite taking two more 3s per game is quite impressive. Nobody is going to increase their 3 point percentage by taking more. There is a reason why for field goal percentage and 3 point percentage there is a certain amount of 3pa or fga you have to take in order to be qualified for the league leader in those stats.

If 3 point percentage defined who was the better shooter then that would mean that Steve Kerr is a better 3 point shooter than Ray Allen.

Kerr has the highest 3 point percentage made (for those qualified) with 45.4% shooting. Ray Allen is ranked 33rd of all-time in 3 point percentage. It's almost unanimous that Ray Allen is the greatest shooter ever specifically 3 point shooter. The debate for the best shooter or 3 point shooter has always been and almost always will be between Reggie and Ray while Kerr's name never has and probably never will come up.

I would always consider mid-range shooting and FT shooting apart of shooting as well and I think it's obvious who is superior between JJ and Iggy at those aspects.


Joe Johnson used to be a much better player, but he is too one dimensional now. He used to be a much more dynamic player, but now he is all about the jump shots and offers little else to the game at all. He literally does NOTHING if he isn't making shots on the court.
Once again I do think you're underrating JJ's all-around game. JJ does not have a weakness in his game.

I also think you're overplaying the decline of JJ. His numbers have declined but that is because he has had to take such a big role for the team like he once had to do in like '07-'08 or '08-'09. I don't think JJ necessarily declined though just because his numbers did.


His only fault is that he is not a good go to scorer when you need someone to create that basket in the halfcourt. Joe Johnson isn't that amazing at it either and a team will not be good leading on him.
Joe is better than Iggy at it though. Joe has led his team to the 2nd round for about 2-3 seasons straight now while he was their creator in the half-court. It seems like that is somewhat effective or at least more effective than Iggy. How many times has Iggy even been in the 2nd round? I can answer that, none.

I remember in the '08-'09 or '07-'08 season, not sure, the 76ers played slow in the beginning of the season and Iggy was playing like complete garbage. He was shooting like in the 30s and everybody including the TNT analysis stated that the 76ers have to push the pace because Iggy can't shoot. The 76ers eventually did push the pace and Iggy's stats were back on track.

So even if JJ isn't that good at it, it was good enough to have his team get past the 1st round and it is better than Iggy's.


Less than 4 RPG for a 6'7 guy? Same size as Igoudala, but he plays like a *****. Joe Johnson is one of the guys in the league he least uses his size. Such a waste. If this was a few years ago I'd take Joe Johnson when he could average 25 PPG and take games over, but he is not that guy anymore and hasn't been the best player on Atlanta for years now since Al Horford has emerged.
I agree with you that JJ doesn't take advantage of his size enough. The guy is a monster in terms of size, 6'8, 240 lbs? I mean really this guy should be posting up the hell out of these guys but instead he just plays like a finesse player.

I do think you're overplaying his decline from his recent seasons though.

[knicksman]

It is always better to pick offensive players than defensive players. Thats why joe johnson has been to the 2nd round whereas iggy was missing playoffs or first round until now. And who knows if they could maintain that. Right now denver is regressing.

[bluechox2]

iggy

[Aussie Dunker]

Depends what team in my opinion...

If you are looking for a legit second option, the JJ is an easy choice.

If you are looking for a strong third option, the iggy is your choice.

For example:

Magic - They have dwight, and JJ would be the poerfect second option there and would provide more to the team than Iggy would...

Thunder - They already have Durant and Westbrook in place, so I think Iggy could fit into his role better in this situation than JJ could...

[GOBB]

I hate to defend Iggy but tell me when joe Johnson has led the hawks to the playoffs and past first rd with a similar team talent wise as Iggy has had. If you answer Joe Johnson never has? Then let's eliminate this leading hawks to playoff crap.

As far as who is better? It's arguable. JJ is a better scorer/shooter and Iggy is better at everything else. Contracts aside I'd take JJ over Iggy.

[dirkdiggler41]

Iggy because of defense and money. JJ contract is huge

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

I would take a combo of Joe Johnson and Dwight Howard over a combo of Andre Iguodala and Dwight Howard so I'm not sure if I agree with you on this.

Based on what criteria? Ability to spread the floor? Igoudala is hitting 3's more efficiently this year anyway. I could only imagine how destructive a team defense would be with Howard on the inside and Igoudala on the perimeter. Sixers interior defense consists of Spencer Hawes and Elton Brand, yet the team is ranked first overall in defensive rating.


You have to factor in how many 3s both of those two take per game. Iggy takes about 3 per game while JJ takes about 5 per game. The fact that JJ is only like 1.5% behind Iggy despite taking two more 3s per game is quite impressive. Nobody is going to increase their 3 point percentage by taking more. There is a reason why for field goal percentage and 3 point percentage there is a certain amount of 3pa or fga you have to take in order to be qualified for the league leader in those stats.

If 3 point percentage defined who was the better shooter then that would mean that Steve Kerr is a better 3 point shooter than Ray Allen.

Kerr has the highest 3 point percentage made (for those qualified) with 45.4% shooting. Ray Allen is ranked 33rd of all-time in 3 point percentage. It's almost unanimous that Ray Allen is the greatest shooter ever specifically 3 point shooter. The debate for the best shooter or 3 point shooter has always been and almost always will be between Reggie and Ray while Kerr's name never has and probably never will come up.

Which just shows that Joe Johnson is a soft player that relies on shooting too many outside jumpshots. What's the point of taking more if your less efficient at them?

Oh have to take enough to qualify? Lets check if Igoudala is qualified. Yeah 3 threes per game and scoring them over 40% this year. Looks like he's qualified brah.

Why couldn't someone argue Kerr as best shooter ever? Ray Allen and Reggie get bought up in that conversation because on top of shooting they were also viable first options for those teams. Kerr was a bench/rotation player, but talking in terms of MAKING OPEN SHOTS he was superior. What evidence is there that Ray Ray and Reggie are better than him at pure SHOOTING. Not being first options and carrying teams, but strictly SHOOTING. The numbers do not lie.


Once again I do think you're underrating JJ's all-around game. JJ does not have a weakness in his game.

I also think you're overplaying the decline of JJ. His numbers have declined but that is because he has had to take such a big role for the team like he once had to do in like '07-'08 or '08-'09. I don't think JJ necessarily declined though just because his numbers did.

Yes he does, he is soft and a jump shooter. His entire game is inferior to Igoudala other than free throw shooting, and mid range shooting/creating. Igoudala has been shooting the three at a more efficient clip this year and gets to the basket more. Those are the two best ways of scoring in the NBA. Open threes and getting to the rim. Not fadaway mid range shots.


Joe is better than Iggy at it though. Joe has led his team to the 2nd round for about 2-3 seasons straight now while he was their creator in the half-court. It seems like that is somewhat effective or at least more effective than Iggy. How many times has Iggy even been in the 2nd round? I can answer that, none.

Didn't realize this was an all-time comparison. This is based strictly on NOW. Igoudalas team is superior and has spanked Joe Johnsons hawks this year. Igoudala shot 3/15 vs the Hawks this year, but still left his fingerprints all over the game wrecking havoc defensively and putting in a great all around game. Not many guys in this game can be as good as Igoudala can be while shooting 3/15.

And we'll see who gets to the 2nd round this year while who gets owned. Good luck *******.

[GOBB]

:roll: @JJ team vs Miami right now.