I dont get why Deron Williams and Dwight Howard wont join the Mavs

[dirkdiggler41]

Pro's
-Great GM and owner in Donnie Nelson and Cuban. How many times has the Mavs not made the playoffs with Cuban as a owner?
-Dirk Nowitzki. Old, but he still great and now that he healthy he shows you how good he is.
-Marion, Jason Terry and Roddy Beaubois (plus others) Marion might be gone, but it will probably only be Haywood (amnesty) Also you got Vince Carter, Ian Mahinmi.
-The team would actully be built well with a strong inside man in Dwight, great shooting with Dirk and a hell of a pointguard in Deron.

Con's
-Deron and Dwight wont get full money if Dirk does not change his contract up and Mavs trade away Marion for nothing.

[Derka]

Who says he won't?

If he ends up going to free agency, which I doubt he will, Boston and Dallas are far and away Dwight's best chances to win a title or two.

[FireDavidKahn]

Because they wont have the cap space to get both?

[dirkdiggler41]

Salary for the offseason: $41,406,384
Haywood (amnesty) Minus $8,349,000
Odom's Contract Team option Minus 5,000,00
Salary 28mills

If the cap space is 58, that means both contract can start at 15mill. I dont know what the max is. I also did not consider changing Dirk's contract up.

[KOBEtherealKing]

Someone said under the new cba a player can't change or restructure his contract

[Andrei89]

Dirk Nowitzki alongside Dwight and Deron would be a beast.

He would probably score less points per game but on 70% shooting fo real!

[kenny817]

Salary for the offseason: $41,406,384
Haywood (amnesty) Minus $8,349,000
Odom's Contract Team option Minus 5,000,00
Salary 28mills

If the cap space is 58, that means both contract can start at 15mill. I dont know what the max is. I also did not consider changing Dirk's contract up.

I don't think you can restructure contracts anymore.

Trade Marion and DoJo for a pick just to get more cap space

The 3 D's in the D...IT WILL HAPPEN!

[Pharcyde]

Salary for the offseason: $41,406,384
Haywood (amnesty) Minus $8,349,000
Odom's Contract Team option Minus 5,000,00
Salary 28mills

If the cap space is 58, that means both contract can start at 15mill. I dont know what the max is. I also did not consider changing Dirk's contract up.

You also have to factor in completing the roster. I'm not too sure how a lot of this works but you can not sign into the luxury tax (I think) so you have to fill out the roster and add cap holds with that 30 million.

[2LeTTeRS]

Salary for the offseason: $41,406,384
Haywood (amnesty) Minus $8,349,000
Odom's Contract Team option Minus 5,000,00
Salary 28mills

If the cap space is 58, that means both contract can start at 15mill. I dont know what the max is. I also did not consider changing Dirk's contract up.

Your numbers are a little off there, did you use the payroll numbers from *********? If you are you might want to remember that they don't include salaries that a team has an option to pick-up/decline in total salary.

Here's the contracts the Mavs have already on the books for the 2012-13 season (assuming Haywood is amnestied).


Dirk Nowitzki - 20,907,128
Shawn Marion - $8,646,364
Rodrigue Beaubois - $2,227,332
Dominique Jones $1,276,560
-----------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL - 33,057,384

Seeeing that the cap is right at $58 million there is no way to fit 2 max contracts in without making moves.

[2LeTTeRS]

Someone said under the new cba a player can't change or restructure his contract

Whoever said that was wrong. Players are able to renegogiate contracts.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329408/new-items-added-nba-collective-bargaining-agreement


• A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.

[PJR]

It's simple why they wont...Texas is gay.

Dwight is going to Brooklyn with Deron. It's a lock.

[Balla_Status]

It's simple why they wont...Texas is gay.

Dwight is going to Brooklyn with Deron. It's a lock.

No gays in Texas dude.

[dirkdiggler41]

Your numbers are a little off there, did you use the payroll numbers from *********? If you are you might want to remember that they don't include salaries that a team has an option to pick-up/decline in total salary.

Here's the contracts the Mavs have already on the books for the 2012-13 season (assuming Haywood is amnestied).


Dirk Nowitzki - 20,907,128
Shawn Marion - $8,646,364
Rodrigue Beaubois - $2,227,332
Dominique Jones $1,276,560
-----------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL - 33,057,384

Seeeing that the cap is right at $58 million there is no way to fit 2 max contracts in without making moves.

What do you mean? I included Odom's contract

Where do you get your numbers from?

[Sarcastic]

Didn't they sign Haywood after the CBA, which means they can't amnesty him?

[Droid101]

Unlikely that Dwight will leave $30 million on the table. Unlikely.

[LockoutOver11]

Whoever said that was wrong. Players are able to renegogiate contracts.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329408/new-items-added-nba-collective-bargaining-agreement

idk y billups couldnt renegogiate his contract wit the knicks... that ***.

[dirkdiggler41]

Didn't they sign Haywood after the CBA, which means they can't amnesty him?

No, he was signed long term the offseason when we got Chandler.

[comerb]

Unlikely that Dwight will leave $30 million on the table. Unlikely.

He'll make that back in a year off advertising and jersey sales in a big market.

[BGriffin's Dad]

because theyd have to live in texas

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

He'll make that back in a year off advertising and jersey sales in a big market.
Please explain...or just stfu because you don't have a clue what you're tallking about

[Droid101]

He'll make that back in a year off advertising and jersey sales in a big market.
Are you retarded? "Big market" means almost nothing these days. Especially for a player like Dwight. He is world-known and will be no matter what team he's on.

Not to mention the extra cash he'll get by avoiding state income taxes by staying in Florida (Texas has those, right?).

[Droid101]

idk y billups couldnt renegogiate his contract wit the knicks... that ***.
Because you can only renegotiate on these new terms if your contract was signed during the new CBA. No old contracts are eligible.

[shortsoptional]

Are you retarded? "Big market" means almost nothing these days. Especially for a player like Dwight. He is world-known and will be no matter what team he's on.

Not to mention the extra cash he'll get by avoiding state income taxes by staying in Florida (Texas has those, right?).


Texas does not have state income tax.

And I know most people are talking about how they can't fit max contracts in to the salary, but why would Dwight and Deron not consider doing exactly what Bosh Wade and James did with taking less money?

But this is a pipe dream anyways, with Deron actually being the strongest possibility, if anything.

No matter what though, the Mavs are going to have options with the salary. The best move may be to add some nice peices around Dirk, rather than pour most of the cap in to 3 players.

[Owl]

Unlikely that Dwight will leave $30 million on the table. Unlikely.
It would be unlikely if leaving really meant $30 million on the table. But presumably this is counting an the extra year that's eligiable. And which only matters if you don't think Dwight is going to get another huge contract after this one expires. Which he is. Dwight will not return to the Magic kingdom.

I would imagine D12 and Deron will end up in Dallas, though Jersey is possible or some sign and trade.

[Nets fan 93]

If the Nets dont trade for Howard then FA makes the Nets that much more appealing. Trade pieces in Lopez and Brooks. Bring in a possible 3rd star?

[D12"Magic"]

If the Nets dont trade for Howard then FA makes the Nets that much more appealing. Trade pieces in Lopez and Brooks. Bring in a possible 3rd star?
Yep plus a top draft pick

[niko]

Dallas is more appealing with Dirk if all things are equal (to me). The Nets have no sure things. Dirk is a sure thing. However i don't believe all things are equal. They can pay Deron more, and i think he'd be the person pushing for Dallas more than Howard, who would be paid the same in both. Plus the Mavs have not moved Marion, nor am i sure how they would.

I think the Nets problem is their trade assets all got hurt, adn their pick is a shitty trade asset because as soon as you trade it, its no longer a lottery pick, because the east is such garbage that Howard will push them to the playoffs. I fully expect Howard to move before the trade deadline. The nets just have to hope its not to LA, because despite reports to the contrary, i can't see ho Howard, who fancies himself a future actor and whose GF lives in LA will find LA so terrible that he needs to give up extra money and leave.

If he doesn't move though, i think NJ is in a much stronger position than Dallas.

[bagelred]

Seeeing that the cap is right at $58 million there is no way to fit 2 max contracts in without making moves.

They could just give Shawn Marion away to a team with cap space.

[niko]

They could just give Shawn Marion away to a team with cap space.
It's not impossible but not so easy. And even if they do that, they are slightly under 2 max. So it's very similar to the Knicks where we could pay max (to Lebron & 1 more) but it wasn't full max.

[boozehound]

Pro's
-Great GM and owner in Donnie Nelson and Cuban. How many times has the Mavs not made the playoffs with Cuban as a owner?
-Dirk Nowitzki. Old, but he still great and now that he healthy he shows you how good he is.
-Marion, Jason Terry and Roddy Beaubois (plus others) Marion might be gone, but it will probably only be Haywood (amnesty) Also you got Vince Carter, Ian Mahinmi.
-The team would actully be built well with a strong inside man in Dwight, great shooting with Dirk and a hell of a pointguard in Deron.

Con's
-Deron and Dwight wont get full money if Dirk does not change his contract up and Mavs trade away Marion for nothing.
dirk cant just take less money. until his option is up, hes making what he makes. why would they leave money on the table? this isnt the 8 mil (thats 160 years of a 50k salary by the way) that bron left on the table, its more like 30 over the course of the contract.

[boozehound]

Whoever said that was wrong. Players are able to renegogiate contracts.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329408/new-items-added-nba-collective-bargaining-agreement
my understanding of this is that the salary would be paid out over a longer period of time, but that it wouldnt impact the salary cap numbers? they get paid over more years, but dont actually play anymore seasons. seems weird, as they could end up getting paid by two contracts at the same time?


So actually, it would impact cap figures. but apparently it doesnt actually exist in the CBA. all media snafu

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1145100.html

[bagelred]

It's not impossible but not so easy.

I think it would be fairly easy. He's still very productive and it's only a 2 year commitment. I'm sure someone would want him.

As for "slightly less than max", I'm sure either Howard or Williams wouldn't be greatly affected financially. If it's something they really wanted, I'm sure they would do it.

[niko]

It's moot, he's going to the Lakers for Bynum and some package that gets rid of some of the sheet Orlando has acquired. May or may not include Gasol. But i really see that as what happens. Pre Lopez getting hurt, it seemed logical. Post Lopez getting hurt, it seemed inevitable. I know Net fans hate me when i say this but it's true, once that foot injury happened Lopez became a extremely devalued trade asset.

The only chance i see is if the owner is so delusional that he doesn't trade him, but i think the GM, others will convince him, plus i think pre deadline Howard pushes for a trade again which will make it happen. Him pushing for a trade is the worst thing for the Nets. If he really wants to go to BRooklyn only, all he needs to do is say "let's take care of this after the season".

[D12"Magic"]

It's moot, he's going to the Lakers for Bynum and some package that gets rid of some of the sheet Orlando has acquired. May or may not include Gasol. But i really see that as what happens. Pre Lopez getting hurt, it seemed logical. Post Lopez getting hurt, it seemed inevitable. I know Net fans hate me when i say this but it's true, once that foot injury happened Lopez became a extremely devalued trade asset.

The only chance i see is if the owner is so delusional that he doesn't trade him, but i think the GM, others will convince him, plus i think pre deadline Howard pushes for a trade again which will make it happen. Him pushing for a trade is the worst thing for the Nets. If he really wants to go to BRooklyn only, all he needs to do is say "let's take care of this after the season".
Everyone can call me an ego egotistical dumb ass but I honestly think that Dwight has said only Net's to the Orlando brass.

[niko]

Everyone can call me an ego egotistical dumb ass but I honestly think that Dwight has said only Net's to the Orlando brass.
i dont disagree. But i think Nets don't have what they want, so IF (not when) they send him to LA, i think the Lakers being what they are and $30M overwhelms him. I think the thought that just because he says "i want Nets" so once they send him to LA he'll reject them and lose the extra money and go to Brooklyn though is a bit of a reach.

[Fiasco]

He'll make that back in a year off advertising and jersey sales in a big market.

Is he selling each jersey for $50,000?

[D12"Magic"]

i dont disagree. But i think Nets don't have what they want, so IF (not when) they send him to LA, i think the Lakers being what they are and $30M overwhelms him. I think the thought that just because he says "i want Nets" so once they send him to LA he'll reject them and lose the extra money and go to Brooklyn though is a bit of a reach.
TBH I think this is just like the Melo situation like last year, he wanted the Knicks and he got them. I guess Deron is gonna stay with the Net's because he would not leave 30 Mill on the table right?

[niko]

TBH I think this is just like the Melo situation like last year, he wanted the Knicks and he got them. I guess Deron is gonna stay with the Net's because he would not leave 30 Mill on the table right?
I think he will if the nets put a reasonable team together. I do not think its Howard or bust. I never have.

[D12"Magic"]

I think he will if the nets put a reasonable team together. I do not think its Howard or bust. I never have.
I know, but so many people are factoring money into this.
If that's the case why won't Howard stay in Orlando?

[niko]

I know, but so many people are factoring money into this.
If that's the case why won't Howard stay in Orlando?
I think Howard wants a bigger market. LA, NY. Where he can be a larger media star. Also, i think Orlando has boxed itself into a whole where they are not going to be good for a while. That combines to make it untenable.

I think the worst thing NJ can do is at that deadline, lose out and also do nothing. The only way i see Deron leaving is if NJ makes the team a place he would no longer want to be, if they are in full rebuild next year, if they rush a Lopez back and he gets hurt again too, if they go into next year with literally no roster. The Nets should pursure Howard, and if not unless they are 100% sure they can get him, they will be in a VERY strong position to poach some really good running mates for Deron if they want to.

Ultimately i think Howard goes to LA, and Deron stays because the Nets get him some nice running mates plus the high pick is coming next year.

[D12"Magic"]

I think Howard wants a bigger market. LA, NY. Where he can be a larger media star. Also, i think Orlando has boxed itself into a whole where they are not going to be good for a while. That combines to make it untenable.

I think the worst thing NJ can do is at that deadline, lose out and also do nothing. The only way i see Deron leaving is if NJ makes the team a place he would no longer want to be, if they are in full rebuild next year, if they rush a Lopez back and he gets hurt again too, if they go into next year with literally no roster. The Nets should pursure Howard, and if not unless they are 100% sure they can get him, they will be in a VERY strong position to poach some really good running mates for Deron if they want to.

Ultimately i think Howard goes to LA, and Deron stays because the Nets get him some nice running mates plus the high pick is coming next year.
Well like I said, I believe Howard let his Orlando Brass know that it's Net's or nothing. Deron know's that, Billy King know's that and Orlando know's and at the deadline it's gonna come. I haven't been this confident, but some thing's made me change my mind.

[swi7ch]

Maybe they want to go to MIA?

DWill
Wade
LBJ
Bosh
D12

[Kobr]

Well like I said, I believe Howard let his Orlando Brass know that it's Net's or nothing. Deron know's that, Billy King know's that and Orlando know's and at the deadline it's gonna come. I haven't been this confident, but some thing's made me change my mind.

Just a gut feeling, or...?

[Owl]

i dont disagree. But i think Nets don't have what they want, so IF (not when) they send him to LA, i think the Lakers being what they are and $30M overwhelms him. I think the thought that just because he says "i want Nets" so once they send him to LA he'll reject them and lose the extra money and go to Brooklyn though is a bit of a reach.
People keep mentioning $30 mil and not acknowledging that it includes an extra year. If Dwight wasn't going to get another (huge) contract after this one that would be an issue. But that isn't the case. There's a possibility that the earlier contract ending means his next contract comes before a drop-off and that he ends up with more money this way (not that this is probable, he probably gets another max either way). The point is the $30m figure is misleading.

[bmulls]

People keep mentioning $30 mil and not acknowledging that it includes an extra year. If Dwight wasn't going to get another (huge) contract after this one that would be an issue. But that isn't the case. There's a possibility that the earlier contract ending means his next contract comes before a drop-off and that he ends up with more money this way (not that this is probable, he probably gets another max either way). The point is the $30m figure is misleading.

Also need to account for the fact that Texas does not have a state income tax, whereas in New York I believe it's around 7%? Which is a pretty big chunk of change when you're making millions.

Also cost of living in Texas is drastically less than in NY.

[roffie]

It's simple why they wont...Texas is gay.

Dwight is going to Brooklyn with Deron. It's a lock.

it's really not a lock..

[niko]

People keep mentioning $30 mil and not acknowledging that it includes an extra year. If Dwight wasn't going to get another (huge) contract after this one that would be an issue. But that isn't the case. There's a possibility that the earlier contract ending means his next contract comes before a drop-off and that he ends up with more money this way (not that this is probable, he probably gets another max either way). The point is the $30m figure is misleading.
People get hurt. happens all the time. Its not guaranteed by any means UNLESS its guaranteed.

[PJR]

it's really not a lock..

U keep thinking that.

[Nets fan 93]

1. Dwight listed NJ/BK as his 1st option.
2. Deron can make a LOT more money if he stays.
3. Dwight listed Deron and Morrow as two players he would like to play with
4. Dwight would be the MAN in Brooklyn.

People know these factors. I'm sure if fans know the facts then GMs around the league know it as well.

Anyone who says it wont happen. Just don't want it to happen. Nets have been irrelavant ever since Jason was traded. Give the team a break.

[talkingconch]

1. Dwight listed NJ/BK as his 1st option.
2. Deron can make a LOT more money if he stays.
3. Dwight listed Deron and Morrow as two players he would like to play with
4. Dwight would be the MAN in Brooklyn.

People know these factors. I'm sure if fans know the facts then GMs around the league know it as well.

Anyone who says it wont happen. Just don't want it to happen. Nets have been irrelavant ever since Jason was traded. Give the team a break.
lol

He also listed Lakers as a destination. He also listed Dallas a destination. He also said that he'd like to play with Kobe bryant in the past.

[SpecialQue]

Dwight's a little bltch and I'm sick of his indecisive bullshit. Screw that chump.

However, in the off chance he becomes a Laker and stays here, I'll love him!

[The Real JW]

There are only really three scenarios in my eyes...

1. Dwight gets traded before the deadline - The most likely destination in this case would be the Lakers. Dwight has listed LA on his list of destinations, and LA has the assets to get a trade done; namely Gasol and Bynum, as well potential filler and picks. The Nets are technically a possibility, but I think their chances to land Dwight in a trade were shot when Lopez and Brooks were injured. Orlando has expressed their desire for veterans in a trade, and Gasol fits that bill perfectly. Or a third team could always be involved. Maybe one that takes either Bynum or Gasol and sends back veterans to Orlando.

2. Dwight makes it to free agency and leaves - I think the most likely destination in this scenario is Dallas, but I suppose the Nets could also be an option, assuming both teams will have the cap space to sign Howard. The Mavs have Dirk and the Nets have Deron to attract Dwight, although Dirk is more of a sure thing than Deron. Dallas is the defending championship team and Nowitzki has proven himself in the playoffs.

3. Dwight stays with Orlando for at least another year.

I think scenario #1 is the most likely.

[R.I.P.]

I have to say I

[Owl]

People get hurt. happens all the time. Its not guaranteed by any means UNLESS its guaranteed.
People don't get career ending injuries all the time. Max players don't have injuries that stop them being max players often at all, someones still going to take a risk as they did on Amar'e, on Boozer etc etc. If Dwight (who has missed 7 games so far in his career) is really worried about injuries then he can get insurance. 99% of scenarios he gets another max contract.

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I have to say I

[Hittin_Shots]

Boston not an option to you guys?

[R.I.P.]

Howard isn't going to sign a long contract to somewhere where they'll be rebuilding in a couple of years.

They have at least two seasons, where they

[jbryan1984]

Cuban has something up his sleeve for next year. Traditionally, you don't change a thing about a championship team and he let several key pieces just walk. He's proven he is a smart business man so he probably knows something that we don't.

[bluechox2]

its possible if they are willing to take a paycut

[niko]

People don't get career ending injuries all the time. Max players don't have injuries that stop them being max players often at all, someones still going to take a risk as they did on Amar'e, on Boozer etc etc. If Dwight (who has missed 7 games so far in his career) is really worried about injuries then he can get insurance. 99% of scenarios he gets another max contract.



Howard isn't going to sign a long contract to somewhere where they'll be rebuilding in a couple of years.
Again, people get hurt. Leaving $30M on the table is risky. Yes, you should make it up on the back end but again, it's not guaranteed. And $30M, insuring it costs $4 or $5 MILLION. It's not so simple.

YOu talk like people don't care yet players rarely leave the money on the table in the scenario you say is no big deal.

[niko]

btw, i like how the Laker fans say Brooklyn has no shot and the Brooklyn fans think Dwight leaves LA to come to them. :lol

[2LeTTeRS]

my understanding of this is that the salary would be paid out over a longer period of time, but that it wouldnt impact the salary cap numbers? they get paid over more years, but dont actually play anymore seasons. seems weird, as they could end up getting paid by two contracts at the same time?


So actually, it would impact cap figures. but apparently it doesnt actually exist in the CBA. all media snafu

http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1145100.html

Hadn't seen that anywhere. Appreciate it.

[Nets fan 93]

lol

He also listed Lakers as a destination. He also listed Dallas a destination. He also said that he'd like to play with Kobe bryant in the past.
He listed NJ as his 1st option. Never said he didnt list LA. Provide the link where he said he wanted to play with Kobe.

[D12"Magic"]

btw, i like how the Laker fans say Brooklyn has no shot and the Brooklyn fans think Dwight leaves LA to come to them. :lol
I never implied Dwight will leave L.A, I never said that if he is traded to L.A he will bolt them , im just stating how Nets are fore front's to land Howard in my opinion

[Nets fan 93]

I never implied Dwight will leave L.A, I never said that if he is traded to L.A he will bolt them , im just stating how Nets are fore front's to land Howard in my opinion
he had nothing better to say. He knows what you meant.

[2LeTTeRS]

1. Dwight listed NJ/BK as his 1st option.

When did this happen? A link would be greatly appreciated.

[niko]

I never implied Dwight will leave L.A, I never said that if he is traded to L.A he will bolt them , im just stating how Nets are fore front's to land Howard in my opinion
i didnt mean you, sorry if i quoted you and said that.

[JohnnyWall]

He listed NJ as his 1st option. Never said he didnt list LA. Provide the link where he said he wanted to play with Kobe.

Provide the link where he said NJ is his first option.