List of players over 7 foot, 230 pounds in Wilt's time

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)






.

[Clippersfan86]

:roll:

[Knicksfever2010]

jeremy lin :rockon:

only because everyone else gets to say his name :)

[millwad]

Mel Counts was amazing, he was a 43% shooter during his career! Amazing!

[inclinerator]

Mel Counts was amazing, he was a 43% shooter during his career! Amazing!
he was playing against short white men tho

[millwad]

he was playing against short white men tho

Read again, Mel Counts was terrible..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mel Counts was amazing, he was a 43% shooter during his career! Amazing!
A dominating 6.0 career rebounds per game :bowdown:


don't bother feeding a troll bro....... I'm sure he knows that Chamberlain's 18 field goals in a game without a miss was against 7' Mel Counts.

They use him to prop up Wilt :oldlol:

[millwad]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DawLDM6Ifs/TWA79FKRQqI/AAAAAAAAAaM/5OcM1VKk6KQ/s1600/mellll+counts.jpg

[Clippersfan86]

:oldlol:

[millwad]

I've heard that Counts was a beast when it came to jumping and dunking, according to a report I've read he was called "Air Counts" and I know that if he would have played today he'd average 50 points per game and 50 rebounds..:hammerhead:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I've heard that Counts was a beast when it came to jumping and dunking, according to a report I've read he was called "Air Counts" and I know that if he would have played today he'd average 50 points per game and 50 rebounds..:hammerhead:
Tex Winter said that the League changed the rules so Counts had to actually shoot his freethrows instead of dunking them like he did in high school.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

5 star thread

Re- oh wait :(

[SilkkTheShocker]

The funny part is how some posters will defend these scrub 50s players like they were some type of Gods. Prime Bill Russell in todays league is playing for the D-league

[B]

The funny part is how some posters will defend these scrub 50s players like they were some type of Gods. Prime Bill Russell in todays league is playing for the D-leagueStop saying stupid things.

[Cangri]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DawLDM6Ifs/TWA79FKRQqI/AAAAAAAAAaM/5OcM1VKk6KQ/s1600/mellll+counts.jpg
:bowdown: :bowdown:

oh wait...
:facepalm


That's really all? :oldlol:
Wilt had it easy.

[millwad]

Tex Winter said that the League changed the rules so Counts had to actually shoot his freethrows instead of dunking them like he did in high school.

Damn, didn't know that!
Wasn't he also that guy who kicked a mountain lion's butt?
http://www.timberlinehunting.com/Assets/photogal/lion/trophy_mountain_lion_photo_5.jpg

[Odinn]

Swede Halbrook 7-3 - 235
Walter Dukes 7-0 - 220
Chuck Share 6-11 - 235
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - 225
Ray Felix 6-11 - 220
Bevo Nordmann 6-10 - 225
Darrall Imhoff 6-10 - 220
Phil Jordan 6-10 - 205
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 - 234
Red Kerr 6-9 - 230
Gary Alcorn 6-9 - 225
Bill Russell 6-9 215

I just cheked out the rosters of 1960-62 span from the basketball-reference.

What's the point of thread? Someone who had both talent and size would be remembered for that era. It was the beginning of the league and that one was Wilt Chamberlain. But you can not discredit him for being too good for the L. It's saying like "Shaq won all his rings when there was no all-time great center in his prime" with ignoring those scary Kings and Blazers frouncourts.
Whatever you say; Wilt is top 10 ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 centers ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 scorers ever. He has a strong case to be called top 5 or top 3. Even he has a case for the goat.

[bwink23]

Swede Halbrook 7-3 - 235
Walter Dukes 7-0 - 220
Chuck Share 6-11 - 235
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - 225
Ray Felix 6-11 - 220
Bevo Nordmann 6-10 - 225
Darrall Imhoff 6-10 - 220
Phil Jordan 6-10 - 205
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 - 234
Red Kerr 6-9 - 230
Gary Alcorn 6-9 - 225
Bill Russell 6-9 215

I just cheked out the rosters of 1960-62 span from the basketball-reference.

What's the point of thread? Someone who had both talent and size would be remembered for that era. It was the beginning of the league and that one was Wilt Chamberlain. But you can not discredit him for being too good for the L. It's saying like "Shaq won all his rings when there was no all-time great center in his prime" with ignoring those scary Kings and Blazers frouncourts.
Whatever you say; Wilt is top 10 ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 centers ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 scorers ever. He has a strong case to be called top 5 or top 3. Even he has a case for the goat.


It should also be noted those guys were taller than their listed heights, since they measured without shoes on back in the day....

[Clippersfan86]

Swede Halbrook 7-3 - 235
Walter Dukes 7-0 - 220
Chuck Share 6-11 - 235
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - 225
Ray Felix 6-11 - 220
Bevo Nordmann 6-10 - 225
Darrall Imhoff 6-10 - 220
Phil Jordan 6-10 - 205
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 - 234
Red Kerr 6-9 - 230
Gary Alcorn 6-9 - 225
Bill Russell 6-9 215

I just cheked out the rosters of 1960-62 span from the basketball-reference.

What's the point of thread? Someone who had both talent and size would be remembered for that era. It was the beginning of the league and that one was Wilt Chamberlain. But you can not discredit him for being too good for the L. It's saying like "Shaq won all his rings when there was no all-time great center in his prime" with ignoring those scary Kings and Blazers frouncourts.
Whatever you say; Wilt is top 10 ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 centers ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 scorers ever. He has a strong case to be called top 5 or top 3. Even he has a case for the goat.

Very bad example dude. Shaq played in the greatest center era in NBA history.... the 90's and even early 00's. Hakeem, Robinson, Mutumbo, Smits, Daughtery, Wallace, Sabonis, Ewing, Zo etc were all in their prime... list goes on. The average center of the 90's would be a starting center today most likely.

Even if Wilt was only two or three inches taller than these players on average.. him outweighing them by 70+ pounds on average is a HUGE advantage.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Just because a dude is tall doesn't mean he isn't a scrub...

[bwink23]

Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs






.



It should be noted that Kareem Abdul Jabbar was listed at 7'2" 225 pounds by basketball-reference.com......listed at 267 pounds on NBA.com website....the sources aren't reliable by any means.

Besides, Kareem weight-wise was lighter, yet is still 20 times better than any center today....SIZE has no argument here.

[Odinn]

Very bad example dude. Shaq played in the greatest center era in NBA history.... the 90's and even early 00's. Hakeem, Robinson, Mutumbo, Smits, Daughtery, Wallace, Sabonis, Ewing, Zo etc were all in their prime... list goes on. The average center of the 90's would be a starting center today most likely.

Even if Wilt was only two or three inches taller than these players on average.. him outweighing them by 70+ pounds on average is a HUGE advantage.
I stated the span that Shaq won his rings. Can you name an all-time great center that in his prime from 2000-06 span?

Do you see what I'm trying to show? You can not discredit a player for his era. You can a make judgement about it and you shape your list based on that. But acting like this?

[millwad]

Swede Halbrook 7-3 - 235
Walter Dukes 7-0 - 220
Chuck Share 6-11 - 235
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - 225
Ray Felix 6-11 - 220
Bevo Nordmann 6-10 - 225
Darrall Imhoff 6-10 - 220
Phil Jordan 6-10 - 205
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 - 234
Red Kerr 6-9 - 230
Gary Alcorn 6-9 - 225
Bill Russell 6-9 215

I just cheked out the rosters of 1960-62 span from the basketball-reference.


All those guys were scrubs minus Bellamy and Russell.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Swede Halbrook 7-3 - 235
Walter Dukes 7-0 - 220
Chuck Share 6-11 - 235
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - 225
Ray Felix 6-11 - 220
Bevo Nordmann 6-10 - 225
Darrall Imhoff 6-10 - 220
Phil Jordan 6-10 - 205
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 - 234
Red Kerr 6-9 - 230
Gary Alcorn 6-9 - 225
Bill Russell 6-9 215

I just cheked out the rosters of 1960-62 span from the basketball-reference.

What's the point of thread? Someone who had both talent and size would be remembered for that era. It was the beginning of the league and that one was Wilt Chamberlain. But you can not discredit him for being too good for the L. It's saying like "Shaq won all his rings when there was no all-time great center in his prime" with ignoring those scary Kings and Blazers frouncourts.
Whatever you say; Wilt is top 10 ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 centers ever without a doubt. He is one of top 5 scorers ever. He has a strong case to be called top 5 or top 3. Even he has a case for the goat.
I added the first one
All the others are below 230 or under 7'

Swede Halbrook only played 2 seasons and averaged 6.6 RPG

[Clippersfan86]

I stated the span that Shaq won his rings. Can you name a all-time great center that in his prime from 2000-06 span?

Ming, Wallace, Big Z, Sabonis, Camby, Mutumbo, Ratliff, Divac were all good centers in 2000-2006. Even in 00-06 the center crop was superior to the 60's.

[Odinn]

Ming, Wallace, Big Z, Sabonis, Camby, Mutumbo, Ratliff, Divac were all good centers in 2000-2006. Even in 00-06 the center crop was superior to the 60's.
You deserve this;
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

You deserve this;
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

... Ming and Wallace are two of the best centers ever. Shaq said he considers Yao a top 5 center of all time. Wallace is arguably a top 5 defender and rebounder all time. Then a couple others I mentioned are HOFers. Reality is Wilt had nobody that could even try to body him up, Shaq did.

Sabonis, Wallace and Yao all had their success against Shaq in the paint at some point or another.

[HurricaneKid]

Prime Bill Russell in todays league is playing for the D-league

The stupid, IT BURNS!!!!

[bwink23]

... Ming and Wallace are two of the best centers ever. Shaq said he considers Yao a top 5 center of all time. Wallace is arguably a top 5 defender and rebounder all time. Then a couple others I mentioned are HOFers. Reality is Wilt had nobody that could even try to body him up, Shaq did.

Sabonis, Wallace and Yao all had their success against Shaq in the paint at some point or another.


If you basing "body up" on weight.....wasn't Shaq over 50 pounds heavier than any center around during his years with the Lakers?? Being able to name only 2 guys within 50 pounds of prime Shaq doesn't help your case. :violin:

[Clippersfan86]

If you basing "body up" on weight.....wasn't Shaq over 50 pounds heavier than any center around during his years with the Lakers?? Being able to name only 2 guys within 50 pounds of prime Shaq doesn't help your case. :violin:

Actually I wasn't going by size. I was naming two elite centers from the 2000-2006 era. In terms of size... Sabonis, Z, Smits, Yao and a few others had the bulk to match Shaq... something Wilt didn't face in his era.

[Owl]

Ming, Wallace, Big Z, Sabonis, Camby, Mutumbo, Ratliff, Divac were all good centers in 2000-2006. Even in 00-06 the center crop was superior to the 60's.
What do you mean by the sixty's in any case? Early sixties? Yeah of course racial quotas were still in effect. Late sixties? With Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Wilt, Russell and briefly Abdul-Jabbar. Versus defensive specialists, injury prone bigs and skilled Europeans past their prime.

[Odinn]

What do you mean by the sixty's in any case? Early sixties? Yeah of course racial quotas were still in effect. Late sixties? With Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Wilt, Russell and briefly Abdul-Jabbar. Versus defensive specialists, injury prone bigs and skilled Europeans past their prime.
:applause: :applause:

[Owl]

Shaq said he considers Yao a top 5 center of all time
:roll:

[bwink23]

Actually I wasn't going by size. I was naming two elite centers from the 2000-2006 era. In terms of size... Sabonis, Z, Smits, Yao and a few others had the bulk to match Shaq... something Wilt didn't face in his era.


NONE of those dudes had the bulk to match Shaq, LOL!!!! That's a joke right?? Again, i can count guys on 3 fingers who were within Shaq's 50-pound mark, LOL....

Get a clue.

[millwad]

NONE of those dudes had the bulk to match Shaq, LOL!!!! That's a joke right?? Again, i can count guys on 3 fingers who were within Shaq's 50-pound mark, LOL....

Get a clue.

Haha, nice try, Brian.

[Owl]

NONE of those dudes had the bulk to match Shaq, LOL!!!! That's a joke right?? Again, i can count guys on 3 fingers who were within Shaq's 50-pound mark, LOL....

Get a clue.
Are they the returning Oliver Miller (Circa 03-04), Thomas Hamilton (Circa 99-00) and Jahidi White?

Because they were awesome.

[Clippersfan86]

NONE of those dudes had the bulk to match Shaq, LOL!!!! That's a joke right?? Again, i can count guys on 3 fingers who were within Shaq's 50-pound mark, LOL....

Get a clue.

Sabonis- 7'3 290 pounds (was probably more heavy too).
Yao- 7'6 305 pounds.
Smits- 7'3 260 pounds.
Big Z- 7'3 265 pounds.

Obviously they are still a lot smaller than Shaq but they were big/strong enough to put up more of a challenge than Wilt had. As I said.... a few of these centers did indeed have their moments against Shaq.

[Pointguard]

Who is 7 foot today and plays good??? Not one of them can outscore or outrebound 6-9 Kevin Love. There are no 20 and 10 guys. The best are all in LA and Kobe has to save the team from mediocrity. DH outplays Gasol and Bynum together even when his game is off. DMC got potential. I know what you are sayin but look around, it ain't happenin. The beast are 6'10 ish today.


Who was within 25lbs of Shaq and could play??? And Jordan had length on almost all shooting guards too. Advantages don't mean anything if you can't play.

[RRR3]

All those guys were scrubs minus Bellamy and Russell.









Clyde Lovellette is in the Hall of Fame, dumbass, how the hell was he a scrub? :facepalm
Walter Dukes was a two-time All-Star, Ray Felix was an All-Star and won ROY, and Red Kerr was a 3-time all-star. Stop making up crap.

[97 bulls]

Tex Winter said that the League changed the rules so Counts had to actually shoot his freethrows instead of dunking them like he did in high school.
Someone please tell me.....

How do you dunk a FT? Were they ble to stand at the ft line and just leap? Did they get a running start?

[Pointguard]

Even if you took off 10 points and 5 rebounds off of his prime, which is just crazy, for not having a lot of 7 footers hes still around 30ppg and 18 rebounds per game. Which is better than anybody any other great centers.

[Odinn]

Wilt's matchups in 1967 playoffs (with their 1967 playoffs #s);
Jerry Lucas(13/19/2) and Connie Dierking (18/13/4)
Bill Russell (11/22/6)
Nate Thurmond (16/23/3)
Pretty select company to beat them. Wilt dominated them with 22/29/9.

[Pointguard]

Someone please tell me.....

How do you dunk a FT? Were they ble to stand at the ft line and just leap? Did they get a running start?
In college, Tex Winters saw Wilt could take three steps and dunk from the freethow line.

[RRR3]

By OP's "logic" Roy Hibbert (7'2 280) should be DOMINATING today's NBA. Why isn't he????

[Pointguard]

In college, Tex Winters saw Wilt could take three steps and dunk from the freethow line.
Remind you this was 7 years before his athletic prime.

[G-train]

Same Wilt that outplayed Kareem, who outplayed Olajuwon, who outplayed Shaq.....etc.
:facepalm

[Figlo]

Current 7 foot 230 pounds Dwights up against:

Jason Collins
Mullens/Diop
Asik
Sami erdin
Haywood
Mozgov/koufus
Earl barron
Thabeet
Hibbert
Bynum
M. Gasol
Bogut
Milicic
Kaman
Robin Lopez
Mcgee

gimme Wilt over any of these scrubs hahahaha

[Pointguard]

By OP's "logic" Roy Hibbert (7'2 280) should be DOMINATING today's NBA. Why isn't he????
Triple R, how tall was Jordan? That MJ guy? How about all those 7 footers in everybodies top ten list today?

[97 bulls]

Remind you this was 7 years before his athletic prime.
Interesting. My next question is why couldn't he shoot a better percentage? Did he not jump far enough half the time? Did it have to be a dunk? Or could he just lay it up? :wtf:

[RRR3]

Triple R, how tall was Jordan? That MJ guy? How about all those 7 footers in everybodies top ten list today?
"B-b-b-b-b-but Jordan was a guard!"
LOL @ OP trying to discredit someone for being tall. WTF

[millwad]

Clyde Lovellette is in the Hall of Fame, dumbass, how the hell was he a scrub? :facepalm
Walter Dukes was a two-time All-Star, Ray Felix was an All-Star and won ROY, and Red Kerr was a 3-time all-star. Stop making up crap.

What a retard, first of Clyde Lovellette wasn't on the list I commented on. And secondly, the guy doesn't deserve to be a HOF.. He was never in his career considered to be a top 10 player, on the MVP ranking he made the 12th spot twice, that's not HOF-quality...:facepalm

Walter Dukes was a joke, the first time he was on the all-star team he averaged 15.2 points per game on 36% shooting which is just pathetic and only 13 rebounds which is not impressive at all in that high paced era. And his 2nd time as an all-star he averaged 11.7 points per game on 40% shooting and 14 rebounds. The guy was terrible.

Ray Felix was an all-star in '53, the center quality was even worse then and Wilt only faced the out of prime Felix a la 8 points on 40% shooting..:facepalm

Red Kerr was 6'9 and if I recall correctly he didn't even jump on his JUMPERS which says alot about his skillset... :facepalm

[RRR3]

What a retard, first of Clyde Lovellette wasn't on the list I commented on. And secondly, the guy doesn't deserve to be a HOF.. He was never in his career considered to be a top 10 player, on the MVP ranking he made the 12th spot twice, that's not HOF-quality...:facepalm

Walter Dukes was a joke, the first time he was on the all-star team he averaged 15.2 points per game on 36% shooting which is just pathetic and only 13 rebounds which is not impressive at all in that high paced era. And his 2nd time as an all-star he averaged 11.7 points per game on 40% shooting and 14 rebounds. The guy was terrible.

Ray Felix was an all-star in '53, the center quality was even worse then and Wilt only faced the out of prime Felix a la 8 points on 40% shooting..:facepalm

Red Kerr was 6'9 and if I recall correctly he didn't even jump on his JUMPERS which says alot about his skillset... :facepalm

Lovelette was in the list you commented on, who's a retard again? :oldlol:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6892010&postcount=23

You'd do well to consider eras before just spouting off BS anyways, they were considered all-stars at the time, regardless of whether some gender-confused kid from sweden thinks so or not. Also, since by your logic, Lovellette can't be a HOF since he never was in the top 10 in MVP voting, James Worthy and Earl Monroe aren't HOF'ers either.

[Pointguard]

Actually I wasn't going by size. I was naming two elite centers from the 2000-2006 era. In terms of size... Sabonis, Z, Smits, Yao and a few others had the bulk to match Shaq... something Wilt didn't face in his era.

Those guys could barely move and weren't reknown for defense. When Wilt scored 50ppg he was running like Amare. Those guys are fish food for sharks to Wilt.

There were two other guys during Wilt's time that could handle Kareem (If Thurmond was effective at doing it and he was third befind Russell and Wilt defensively) and there wasn't anybody since then that could. Young Reed also did a decent job here and there on Kareem. 7'7 Manute couldn't contain Kareem so this height argument is falling apart quickly.

Also I would rather have Rodman guarding Shaq than any of the stiffs named above.

[millwad]

Lovelette was in the list you commented on, who's a retard again? :oldlol:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6892010&postcount=23

You'd do well to consider eras before just spouting off BS anyways, they were considered all-stars at the time, regardless of whether some gender-confused kid from sweden thinks so or not. Also, since by your logic, Lovellette can't be a HOF since he never was in the top 10 in MVP voting, James Worthy and Earl Monroe aren't HOF'ers either.

RRR3, I see you have left the buttyboy status, did Jlauber taste any good?
Watch the freaking eras, guys like Kerr were all-stars in that era, the same Kerr shot with both his hands while not leaving the floor. Are you going to compare him with James Worthy?

You are way more stupid then what I thought, I mean, I've never really had any contact with you other then the time when we PM'd about the amount of time you spend on ISH, but damn, you're retarded.

Is KC Jones a legit HOF:er too then?:facepalm

And I find it funny that you try to insult me a la calling me a gender-confused swede, dude, you are lonely and lame as hell, internet stalker a la IDA LJUNGQVIST, wanking to her pics on daily basis. :facepalm
You spend crazy amount of time on ISH, I bet you don't even have any friends mr 30 post per day average.

[Pointguard]

Interesting. My next question is why couldn't he shoot a better percentage? Did he not jump far enough half the time? Did it have to be a dunk? Or could he just lay it up? :wtf:
Tex Winters saw Wilt playing around doing this and was on a committee that out ruled it. So Wilt never had a chance to implement it. Yeah, weird right. Cause I would be shocked if anybody now could do a three step dunk from the foul line.

[millwad]

Tex Winters saw Wilt playing around doing this and was on a committee that out ruled it. So Wilt never had a chance to implement it. Yeah, weird right. Cause I would be shocked if anybody now could do a three step dunk from the foul line.

Just like Wilt was a great "shooter" and crushed a players toe (bones) due dunking on it, how someone said that he was a worldclass volleyballer player etc... Can't believe that you guys actually believe everything you hear..

[Rnbizzle]

Guys like Wilt and Russell were great in their days and therefore deserve their spots on the all-time lists.. But retarded elderly posters here who believe Wilt actually fought a mountain lion.. had sex with 20.000 woman or could dunk from the freethrow line with only taking 3 steps.. Please kill yourselves.

The truth is Wilt would probable be nothing more then say a Roy Hibbert (or Deandre Jordan if you're gonna argue athleticism) but why does that matter, they were still dominant as hell in their day.

[Bernie Nips]

List of centers over 7 foot 4, 300 pounds in Yao Ming's time:

...

....uhhhmmmmmmmm...

Therefore, Yao Ming competed against those that were far shorter and weighed less than him, therefore he should be discredited for anything he did.

This thread = :facepalm

[bwink23]

Sabonis- 7'3 290 pounds (was probably more heavy too).
Yao- 7'6 305 pounds.
Smits- 7'3 260 pounds.
Big Z- 7'3 265 pounds.

Obviously they are still a lot smaller than Shaq but they were big/strong enough to put up more of a challenge than Wilt had. As I said.... a few of these centers did indeed have their moments against Shaq.


And prime Shaq weighed in at 320+.....Yao is the closest, those other were still 60 pounds off....That's like Wilt going against guys 220-240.

[97 bulls]

Just like Wilt was a great "shooter" and crushed a players toe (bones) due dunking on it, how someone said that he was a worldclass volleyballer player etc... Can't believe that you guys actually believe everything you hear..
Lol you don't believe that's true millwad?

[WillC]

It should also be noted those guys were taller than their listed heights, since they measured without shoes on back in the day....

This is correct.

It is widely known that players back then were measured without shoes.

Alonzo Mourning (who is listed at 6'10") is actually shorter than Bill Russell (who was listed at 6'9" but would probably be listed at 6'10 or 6'11" using today's measurements).

I've seen numerous photos and videos of the two together. Zo received a lot of coaching from Russell earlier in his career and has a lot of respect for the Celtics' legend.

http://media.gomemphis.com/media/img/photos/2011/11/21/a22party3_t607.jpeg

[WillC]

All those guys were scrubs minus Bellamy and Russell.

Clyde Lovellette was no scrub.

He was named All-NBA 2nd Team, averaged 23ppg and 14rpg at the peak of his career and was a 4-time All-Star.

He also won 3 NBA championships.

[millwad]

Clyde Lovellette was no scrub.

He was named All-NBA 2nd Team, averaged 23ppg and 14rpg at the peak of his career and was a 4-time All-Star.

He also won 3 NBA championships.

I missed Clyde's name on the list which you can see from the arguments above..

[WillC]

I missed Clyde's name on the list which you can see from the arguments above..

I just read it.

I doubt you would have recognised his name anyway. By the looks of things you have a severe lack of NBA knowledge.

[millwad]

I just read it.

I doubt you would have recognised his name anyway. By the looks of things you have a severe lack of NBA knowledge.

I am well aware of Clyde and I have no idea what so ever who you and I couldn't care less but I guess that you're one of those old bastards who "saw" the likes of Wilt "play".

I haven't posted anything controversial what so ever in this thread.

[WillC]

So this isn't controversial...?


What a retard, first of Clyde Lovellette wasn't on the list I commented on. And secondly, the guy doesn't deserve to be a HOF.. He was never in his career considered to be a top 10 player, on the MVP ranking he made the 12th spot twice, that's not HOF-quality...:facepalm

1) Your flippant use of the term 'retard' (if you one day have a child, I wonder if you will call it a 'retard' if it is born with Down's Syndrome or another disability?).

2) Your misunderstanding of the basketball HOF. It isn't based purely on a player's NBA career. Lovellette was named Most Outstanding Player of the 1952 Final Four.

3) You calling someone out when it was you who blatantly missed Lovellette's name on the list.

I could go on, but I think this proves your lack of a) knowledge and b) maturity.

[Pointguard]

Guys like Wilt and Russell were great in their days and therefore deserve their spots on the all-time lists.. But retarded elderly posters here who believe Wilt actually fought a mountain lion.. had sex with 20.000 woman or could dunk from the freethrow line with only taking 3 steps.. Please kill yourselves.

The truth is Wilt would probable be nothing more then say a Roy Hibbert (or Deandre Jordan if you're gonna argue athleticism) but why does that matter, they were still dominant as hell in their day.

Why would you think Tex Winters would lie about it? He had great credibility and was on the committee to institute such rules and was just explaining himself. Wilt could triple jump 50 feet which would be beyond the half court line. And could broad jump 22 feet about the top of the key. These are far from world records but are very impressive for that time. Wilt had incredibly long legs and was freakisly strong with his whole body. No offense Bizzle, you just aren't educated in what you are talking about. And you sound arrogant in your ignorance.

Seriously, you think Deandre Jordan has Wilt's strength? You think Roy Hibbert could make any track and field team. I doubt he can broad jump 12 feet. Deandre Jordan gets tired after 30minutes. What athelete that you know of could run 50mile marathons? You think Arnold Schwanegger is going to call Deandre one of the strongest people he knew? You think somebody weighin 265 lbs giving their HOF speech is going to say his most amusing moment was when Deandre Jordan picked him up moved him like a coffee cup?

You act like the human species is different now. Grow up, pick up a book and start reading. They aren't. Today they don't eat organic foods and it messes with their endurance. Jack Johnson fought 42 round fights in the 1900's when they were practically fighting bare knuckled. No fighter now handles 12 rounds very well.

Guys don't hustle for rebounds and are scared to bang today. What 7 footer fights down low every night? Deandre Jordan? Even the fans never respected KG for playing hard, every game. Yall act like everybody is playing hard. When the 7 footers now are complete jokes. Almost all of them are unfocused and don't take pride in having a workman's approach to the game. DH does this but takes games off. But he stands out for being part time old school. Rodman could come in the game today and lead the league in rebounds and offensive rebounds because he plays with heart and isn't scared to bang. Deandre is four times the athlete Love is but he will never average what Love averages. Cause Love is old school, ask anybody.

[dunksby]

Kareem = GOAT
Everybody including other centers come next.

[millwad]

So this isn't controversial...?



1) Your flippant use of the term 'retard' (if you one day have a child, I wonder if you will call it a 'retard' if it is born with Down's Syndrome or another disability?).

2) Your misunderstanding of the basketball HOF. It isn't based purely on a player's NBA career. Lovellette was named Most Outstanding Player of the 1952 Final Four.

3) You calling someone out when it was you who blatantly missed Lovellette's name on the list.

I could go on, but I think this proves your lack of a) knowledge and b) maturity.

I don't feel like Lovellette deserves to be a HOF, I just don't. HOF:ers should be for the best of the best, not a guy who was ranked top 12 in the league twice in his league.

Lovellette didn't win in his prime and he didn't lead any of his teams to wins in the finals. He got them before and after his prime because he was lucky to play on great teams.

If Lovellette type of players would be brought in to the HOF a la the 80's, 90's and 00's we'd have ALOT more players in the HOF and that's a fact.

You can act like you're some kind of pro, which you're obviously not and it's safe to say that you didn't see him play so lets stop acting like you're some Bruce Almighty when in fact you google your statements.

[WillC]

Why would you think Tex Winters would lie about it? He had great credibility and was on the committee to institute such. Wilt could triple jump 50 feet which would be beyond the half court line. And could broad jump 22 feet about the top of the key. These are far from world records but are very impressive for that time. Wilt had incredibly long legs and was freakisly strong with his whole body. No offense Bizzle, you just aren't educated in what you are talking about. And you sound arrogant in your ignorance.

Seriously, you think Deandre Jordan has Wilt's strength? You think Roy Hibbert could make any track and field team. I doubt he can broad jump 12 feet. Deandre Jordan gets tired after 30minutes. What athelete that you know of could run 50mile marathons? You think Arnold Schwanegger is going to call Deandre one of the strongest people he knew? You think somebody weighin 265 lbs giving their HOF speech is going to say his most amusing moment was when Deandre Jordan picked him up moved him like a coffee cup?

You act like the human species is different now. Grow up, pick up a book and start reading. They aren't. Today they don't eat organic foods and it messes with their endurance. Jack Johnson fought 42 round fights in the 1900's when they were practically fighting bare knuckled. No fighter now handles 12 rounds very well.

Guys don't hustle for rebounds and are scared to bang today. What 7 footer fights down low every night? Deandre Jordan? Even the fans never respected KG for playing hard, every game. Yall act like everybody is playing hard. When the 7 footers now are complete jokes. Almost all of them are unfocused and don't take pride in having a workman's approach to the game. DH does this but takes games off. But he stands out for being part time old school. Rodman could come in the game today and lead the league in rebounds and offensive rebounds because he plays with heart and isn't scared to bang. Deandre is four times the athlete Love is but he will never average what Love averages. Cause Love is old school, ask anybody.

I am going to copy and paste this post every time someone spouts nonsense about how Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't be a star in today's NBA.

Your post hits the nail on the head.

[Deuce Bigalow]

"B-b-b-b-b-but Jordan was a guard!"
LOL @ OP trying to discredit someone for being tall. WTF
I'm not discrediting that Wilt for being tall
I'm just laying some facts that he played against small centers, much smaller

Imagine Andrew Bynum in that era, only 2-3 centers are 7' and none of them are close to 250 pounds :lol

[WillC]

I'm not discrediting that Wilt for being tall
I'm just laying some facts that he played against small centers, much smaller

Imagine Andrew Bynum in that era, only 2-3 centers and none of them are close to 250 pounds :lol

Similarly, imagine Wilt Chamberlain playing in the NBA today, with the benefit of modern training methods, nutrition, coaching, etc.

He'd eat players like Andrew Bynum for breakfast.

It works both ways.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Similarly, imagine Wilt Chamberlain playing in the NBA today, with the benefit of modern training methods, nutrition, coaching, etc.

He'd eat players like Andrew Bynum for breakfast.

It works both ways.
:oldlol: no he wouldn't, he'll be lucky to be as good as Bynum

[WillC]

:oldlol: no he wouldn't, he'll be lucky to be as good as Bynum

If you say so, troll.

Wilt was quicker, stronger, a better leaper. If he played today, it's fair to say he'd have an even bigger advantage in those areas due to today's training methods, nutrition, etc.

In terms of his skill set, Wilt has Bynum beat in every area except free throw shooting:

- Wilt was an infinitely better ball-handler and passer, which he honed in his time with the Globetrotters.

- Wilt had a legendary finger roll.

- Wilt had a very effective turn-around jump shot.

- Wilt was one of the best rebounders ever (if not the best).

- Wilt was a ferocious shot-blocker.

Keep living in your dream world where everything gets better as the years go by. I wonder what you'll think of Jordan in 50 years' time? I assume every shooting guard in the league in 2062 will be better players than Jordan was :rolleyes:

[Rnbizzle]

Why would you think Tex Winters would lie about it? He had great credibility and was on the committee to institute such rules and was just explaining himself. Wilt could triple jump 50 feet which would be beyond the half court line. And could broad jump 22 feet about the top of the key. These are far from world records but are very impressive for that time. Wilt had incredibly long legs and was freakisly strong with his whole body. No offense Bizzle, you just aren't educated in what you are talking about. And you sound arrogant in your ignorance.

Seriously, you think Deandre Jordan has Wilt's strength? You think Roy Hibbert could make any track and field team. I doubt he can broad jump 12 feet. Deandre Jordan gets tired after 30minutes. What athelete that you know of could run 50mile marathons? You think Arnold Schwanegger is going to call Deandre one of the strongest people he knew? You think somebody weighin 265 lbs giving their HOF speech is going to say his most amusing moment was when Deandre Jordan picked him up moved him like a coffee cup?

You act like the human species is different now. Grow up, pick up a book and start reading. They aren't. Today they don't eat organic foods and it messes with their endurance. Jack Johnson fought 42 round fights in the 1900's when they were practically fighting bare knuckled. No fighter now handles 12 rounds very well.

Guys don't hustle for rebounds and are scared to bang today. What 7 footer fights down low every night? Deandre Jordan? Even the fans never respected KG for playing hard, every game. Yall act like everybody is playing hard. When the 7 footers now are complete jokes. Almost all of them are unfocused and don't take pride in having a workman's approach to the game. DH does this but takes games off. But he stands out for being part time old school. Rodman could come in the game today and lead the league in rebounds and offensive rebounds because he plays with heart and isn't scared to bang. Deandre is four times the athlete Love is but he will never average what Love averages. Cause Love is old school, ask anybody.
Actually, the thing is, I've heard the same stories you have, and I've read (maybe not quite as much, but) enough on the subject to know what I'm talking about at least a bit.

I just take these stories with a grain of salt. The thing I find fascinating.. You guys will believe half of the stories, and put away the rest like I do. I mean, do you really believe he fought a mountain lion and won? Do you really believe he had sex with 20.000 women? You probably don't. Now I know these aren't really related to his athletic abilities but you get my point.

There's so many more stories of what 'the great Wilt Chamberlain' could do, that I doubt ones that might actually be true.

All in all I think 95% of the stories are over-exaggerated.

[G-train]

- Wilt had a very effective turn-around jump shot.


Most haters dont even realise this. It would be incredibly effective today.

[B]

:oldlol: no he wouldn't, he'll be lucky to be as good as BynumWilt would destroy Bynum even without the benefits of modern training. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or you're just saying idiotic things to get attention

[WillC]

Most haters dont even realise this. It would be incredibly effective today.

That's because most people have never seen him play. They just see his awful FT% on Basketball Reference and make assumptions.

[G-train]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk

Tex Winters talks about Wilt in here.

He didnt fight a moutain lion in that story. He pulled off the road and went to toilet and one allegedly jumped on his back and he knocked it off and it ran away. No one believed him but he had big scratches across his back and that was his explanation. He might have been lying but that was the story.

[-23-]

Why would you think Tex Winters would lie about it? He had great credibility and was on the committee to institute such rules and was just explaining himself. Wilt could triple jump 50 feet which would be beyond the half court line. And could broad jump 22 feet about the top of the key. These are far from world records but are very impressive for that time. Wilt had incredibly long legs and was freakisly strong with his whole body. No offense Bizzle, you just aren't educated in what you are talking about. And you sound arrogant in your ignorance.

Seriously, you think Deandre Jordan has Wilt's strength? You think Roy Hibbert could make any track and field team. I doubt he can broad jump 12 feet. Deandre Jordan gets tired after 30minutes. What athelete that you know of could run 50mile marathons? You think Arnold Schwanegger is going to call Deandre one of the strongest people he knew? You think somebody weighin 265 lbs giving their HOF speech is going to say his most amusing moment was when Deandre Jordan picked him up moved him like a coffee cup?

You act like the human species is different now. Grow up, pick up a book and start reading. They aren't. Today they don't eat organic foods and it messes with their endurance. Jack Johnson fought 42 round fights in the 1900's when they were practically fighting bare knuckled. No fighter now handles 12 rounds very well.

Guys don't hustle for rebounds and are scared to bang today. What 7 footer fights down low every night? Deandre Jordan? Even the fans never respected KG for playing hard, every game. Yall act like everybody is playing hard. When the 7 footers now are complete jokes. Almost all of them are unfocused and don't take pride in having a workman's approach to the game. DH does this but takes games off. But he stands out for being part time old school. Rodman could come in the game today and lead the league in rebounds and offensive rebounds because he plays with heart and isn't scared to bang. Deandre is four times the athlete Love is but he will never average what Love averages. Cause Love is old school, ask anybody.

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If you say so, troll.

Wilt was quicker, stronger, a better leaper. If he played today, it's fair to say he'd have an even bigger advantage in those areas due to today's training methods, nutrition, etc.

In terms of his skill set, Wilt has Bynum beat in every area except free throw shooting:

- Wilt was an infinitely better ball-handler and passer, which he honed in his time with the Globetrotters.

- Wilt had a legendary finger roll.

- Wilt had a very effective turn-around jump shot.

- Wilt was one of the best rebounders ever (if not the best).

- Wilt was a ferocious shot-blocker.

Keep living in your dream world where everything gets better as the years go by. I wonder what you'll think of Jordan in 50 years' time? I assume every shooting guard in the league in 2062 will be better players than Jordan was :rolleyes:
Wilt dominated shorter, weaker players it's just fact dude

blocking and rebounding against 6'8"-6'10" 200-220 lb players means he would dominate the league today? :rolleyes:

stronger?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/NBA7902/NBA%20Height%20Comparison/BynumGasol.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8_ENa7sVpug/TNOucfV3SnI/AAAAAAAAPaA/uOX0CufP-zM/s1600/Wilt+Chamberlain+was+congratulated+by+fans+9.jpg

and look at the 6'4"-6'8" center next to him, that is what he dominated

[bwink23]

I'm not discrediting that Wilt for being tall
I'm just laying some facts that he played against small centers, much smaller

Imagine Andrew Bynum in that era, only 2-3 centers are 7' and none of them are close to 250 pounds :lol


Like imagining Shaq in the 2000's :lol

[WillC]

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.

Hmmm, who are we going to believe? The guy who clearly took the time to explain his point intelligently, or the guy who can't get his point across without swearing and throwing an immature little tantrum?

Difficult decision...

[bwink23]

:oldlol: no he wouldn't, he'll be lucky to be as good as Bynum


Your silly child.....

[bwink23]

If you say so, troll.

Wilt was quicker, stronger, a better leaper. If he played today, it's fair to say he'd have an even bigger advantage in those areas due to today's training methods, nutrition, etc.

In terms of his skill set, Wilt has Bynum beat in every area except free throw shooting:

- Wilt was an infinitely better ball-handler and passer, which he honed in his time with the Globetrotters.

- Wilt had a legendary finger roll.

- Wilt had a very effective turn-around jump shot.

- Wilt was one of the best rebounders ever (if not the best).

- Wilt was a ferocious shot-blocker.

Keep living in your dream world where everything gets better as the years go by. I wonder what you'll think of Jordan in 50 years' time? I assume every shooting guard in the league in 2062 will be better players than Jordan was :rolleyes:



Look at his avatar....this kid is just a baby....go easy on him...:pimp:

[G-train]

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.

Watch the video I posted then delete your post.
The rules committe changed the rule of moving past FT line til ball hits rim because he was doing it.
Dont reply til you watch the video.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.
:applause:
tired of all this Wilt bullshit

[Deuce Bigalow]

Your silly child.....
"your"....and I'm the silly child?

What does Wilt have over Bynum other than jumping and running?I've seen Wilt's highlights and there just jumping over and putting in shots over smaller weaker players

[-23-]

Watch the video I posted then delete your post.
The rules committe changed the rule of moving past FT line til ball hits rim because he was doing it.
Dont reply til you watch the video.


Watch what? Take a freshman physics course and come back to me. I've done enough physics in my engineering major to know that for a 250lb+ mass to generate the momentum, and height needed to dunk on a 10 foot rim on 3 steps is impossible. You're a idiot. Tall tales are exactly that, TALL TALES. You're a ****in moron, keep sucking Wilt's dick.

[millwad]

Hmmm, who are we going to believe? The guy who clearly took the time to explain his point intelligently, or the guy who can't get his point across without swearing and throwing an immature little tantrum?

Difficult decision...

Yes, lets trust every quote regarding Wilt, especially his own.
Wilt said that he crushed a mountain lion, that he had a 50 inch vertical, that he slept with 20 000 ladies, that he'd score 70 points per game in the modern era etc..

And then we should also trust all the other people's quotes a la, Wilt broke a guys toe with a basketball (not even possible, learn some physics), Wilt could dunk from the FT-line with 3 small steps, Wilt was a world class volleyball player etc..

The quotes and the stupidity never ends..

[B]

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.:roll: :roll:

[WillC]

Yes, lets trust every quote regarding Wilt, especially his own.
Wilt said that he crushed a mountain lion, that he had a 50 inch vertical, that he slept with 20 000 ladies, that he'd score 70 points per game in the modern era etc..

And then we should also trust all the other people's quotes a la, Wilt broke a guys toe with a basketball (not even possible, learn some physics), Wilt could dunk from the FT-line with 3 small steps, Wilt was a world class volleyball player etc..

The quotes and the stupidity never ends..

I was actually referring to Pointguard's post compared with -23-'s.

[-23-]

Hmmm, who are we going to believe? The guy who clearly took the time to explain his point intelligently, or the guy who can't get his point across without swearing and throwing an immature little tantrum?

Difficult decision...


And who the **** are you? Another Wilt dick sucker? How's all that *** taste you daft pig. The fact that you can believe he can dunk the FT on 3 steps makes you a ****in moron.

:no: Not even a video of him ever SHOWING him cover both horizontal or vertical feats to dunk the FT line, let alone in 3 steps.

You'd think, something like that would be filmed, or at least a picture taken?

[Kevin_Gamble]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8_ENa7sVpug/TNOucfV3SnI/AAAAAAAAPaA/uOX0CufP-zM/s1600/Wilt+Chamberlain+was+congratulated+by+fans+9.jpg

and look at the 6'4"-6'8" center next to him, that is what he dominated

Let me guess, you think this photo is an action shot from an NBA game?

[G-train]

Watch what? Take a freshman physics course and come back to me. I've done enough physics in my engineering major to know that for a 250lb+ mass to generate the momentum, and height needed to dunk on a 10 foot rim on 3 steps is impossible. You're a idiot. Tall tales are exactly that, TALL TALES. You're a ****in moron, keep sucking Wilt's dick.

Ok your made up physics > Tex Winters eye witness account. :facepalm

I doubted he could do it until I saw that video.

Nice internet tough guy insults. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ok your made up physics > Tex Winters eye witness account. :facepalm

I doubted he could do it until I saw that video.

Nice internet tough guy insults. :oldlol:
:roll: You actually believe it :oldlol: :oldlol:

[bwink23]

"your"....and I'm the silly child?

What does Wilt have over Bynum other than jumping and running?I've seen Wilt's highlights and there just jumping over and putting in shots over smaller weaker players



Yes, your a child....only children feel the need to correct grammatical errors. Nice avatar by the way. Children would take the time to seek it out and use it, like a true hype-driven little drone.....

Call me when you sprout your first pube son. :pimp:

[G-train]

:roll: You actually believe it :oldlol: :oldlol:

Watch the video.

[bwink23]

Watch what? Take a freshman physics course and come back to me. I've done enough physics in my engineering major to know that for a 250lb+ mass to generate the momentum, and height needed to dunk on a 10 foot rim on 3 steps is impossible. You're a idiot. Tall tales are exactly that, TALL TALES. You're a ****in moron, keep sucking Wilt's dick.


How about you go ahead then and post those calculations here for us to see...

[-23-]

Ok your made up physics > Tex Winters eye witness account. :facepalm

I doubted he could do it until I saw that video.

Nice internet tough guy insults. :oldlol:

You're the bigger moron to believe it.

Eye witness accounts? SO you think 9/11 missiles hit the WTC because of "eye witness accounts" or bombs going off because of "eye witness accounts".

Take off the tin foil hat, it's cutting off your circulation.

Moron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes, your a child....only children feel the need to correct grammatical errors. Nice avatar by the way. Children would take the time to seek it out and use it, like a true hype-driven little drone.....

Call me when you sprout your first pube son. :pimp:
What happened? too busy watching space jam instead of doing your homework when you were a child?

[jlip]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8_ENa7sVpug/TNOucfV3SnI/AAAAAAAAPaA/uOX0CufP-zM/s1600/Wilt+Chamberlain+was+congratulated+by+fans+9.jpg

and look at the 6'4"-6'8" center next to him, that is what he dominated

So the "6'4"- 6'8" center next to Wilt" who happens to be wearing the exact same team jersey that Wilt is wearing is the guy that Wilt dominated?

[PHILA]

I'm not discrediting that Wilt for being tall
I'm just laying some facts that he played against small centers, much smaller

Imagine Andrew Bynum in that era, only 2-3 centers are 7' and none of them are close to 250 pounds :lol


Bynum can't even run with Wilt, Russell & Thurmond up the court. How is he supposed to compete with them when he can't even keep up without getting gassed. After a quarter of fighting Wilt for position under the boards he would look towards Coach Brown on the bench to pull him for a breather. Against Wilt & Nate he would be at a length disadvantage as well. He'd be unable to outreach, outmuscle, outposition, outquick, outjump, outrun, and ultimately outplay either of them. Wilt would block all of shot his attempts, while Nate would forbid him from even looking at the basket.


Can you say with a straight face that Bynum can run with Russell or even an overweight Bellamy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCYj0wXPY1s#t=13m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzaki4yEC4s#t=4m7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtG7-I2wBw#t=4m42s




[I]'Quick Talk w/ Nate Thurmond,"Extra Sauce", Bret Dougherty, 3/15/2004

[I]However, Nate

[-23-]

How about you go ahead then and post those calculations here for us to see...


It does not take a engineer to conclude that a 250lb+ guy has to jump 18" (horizontal distance), while the effects of DRAG, and GRAVITY are pulling you down. How much speed you think he can get from 3 steps while losing over 2 feet a second while in the air?

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/popcorn_2.gif

[B]

And who the **** are you? Another Wilt dick sucker? How's all that *** taste you daft pig. The fact that you can believe he can dunk the FT on 3 steps makes you a ****in moron.

:no: Not even a video of him ever SHOWING him cover both horizontal or vertical feats to dunk the FT line, let alone in 3 steps.

You'd think, something like that would be filmed, or at least a picture taken?

First off it's more than capable of being done... Wilt use to do it in practice by getting a three to four step running start. Don't forget this is a guy who held NCAA records for the high jump and triple jump besides being a basketball standout. He never did it in a game, even Wilt admits to that but he did do it with the Harlem Globetrotters in his time there. Not sure if doing it against the New Jersey Generals counts

As for being filmed they didn't even film playoff games most of the time back then. And even those that were filmed are long gone now... Just a handful of films from that era remain


Ask yourself this if it's impossible to do why did the NCAA and one year later the NBA both put rules in place to ban players from jumping or taking steps while shooting free throws.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=PHILA]Bynum can't even run with Wilt, Russell & Thurmond up the court. How is he supposed to compete with them when he can't even keep up without getting gassed. After a quarter of fighting Wilt for position under the boards he would look towards Coach Brown on the bench to pull him for a breather. Against Wilt & Nate he would be at a length disadvantage as well. He'd be unable to outreach, outmuscle, outposition, outquick, outjump, outrun, and ultimately outplay either of them. Wilt would block all of shot his attempts, while Nate would forbid him from even looking at the basket.


Can you say with a straight face that Bynum can run with Russell or even an overweight Bellamy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCYj0wXPY1s#t=13m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzaki4yEC4s#t=4m7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtG7-I2wBw#t=4m42s




[I]'Quick Talk w/ Nate Thurmond,"Extra Sauce", Bret Dougherty, 3/15/2004

[I]However, Nate

[PHILA]

'Quick Talk w/ Nate Thurmond,"Extra Sauce", Bret Dougherty, 3/15/2004

However, Nate’s admiration for the centers of today is obvious.

“I really like the centers that are coming out now,” he says. “They’re talented, quick, and agile. Most importantly, they have good footwork and lateral movement. That’s why I like Duncan and KG (Kevin Garnett). They have the athleticism.”

When I look at a center, I immediately ask, ‘can he run?’ You can’t coach a stiff. I want a guy that can run, not a galoof. Most guys today can run.”

[-23-]

[QUOTE=B

[Lebron23]

[QUOTE=PHILA]Bynum can't even run with Wilt, Russell & Thurmond up the court. How is he supposed to compete with them when he can't even keep up without getting gassed. After a quarter of fighting Wilt for position under the boards he would look towards Coach Brown on the bench to pull him for a breather. Against Wilt & Nate he would be at a length disadvantage as well. He'd be unable to outreach, outmuscle, outposition, outquick, outjump, outrun, and ultimately outplay either of them. Wilt would block all of shot his attempts, while Nate would forbid him from even looking at the basket.


Can you say with a straight face that Bynum can run with Russell or even an overweight Bellamy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCYj0wXPY1s#t=13m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzaki4yEC4s#t=4m7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtG7-I2wBw#t=4m42s




[I]'Quick Talk w/ Nate Thurmond,"Extra Sauce", Bret Dougherty, 3/15/2004

[I]However, Nate

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=PHILA][I]'Quick Talk w/ Nate Thurmond,"Extra Sauce", Bret Dougherty, 3/15/2004

[I]However, Nate

[G-train]

You're the bigger moron to believe it.

Eye witness accounts? SO you think 9/11 missiles hit the WTC because of "eye witness accounts" or bombs going off because of "eye witness accounts".

Take off the tin foil hat, it's cutting off your circulation.

Moron.

Certified troll.

[-23-]

Certified troll.


Certified moron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

G-Train you also think Wilt beat up a mountain lion and threw it by it's tail?

[PHILA]

Shaq a stiff? He could run the floor great and jump with anyone at 340 lbs. Very quick feet as well.

Where do you think Shaq got that baseline spin? That was Wilt's move in the old days.


How often has Bynum shown such quickness in the pivot?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewBnHq04CRg#t=14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdX6bkVIk8#t=2m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=34m46s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=34m46s)

[PHILA]

Get that weak stuff out of here Yes he should have dunked it.

[B]

Certified troll.Yep

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq a stiff? He could run the floor great and jump with anyone at 340 lbs. Very quick feet as well.

Where do you think Shaq got that baseline spin? That was Wilt's move in the old days.


How often has Bynum shown such quickness in the pivot?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewBnHq04CRg#t=14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdX6bkVIk8#t=2m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=34m46s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=34m46s)
If he was in the league in the 60s, people would say Wilt who?

[Pointguard]

You'd have to be a retard to think he can dunk from the FT-line with 3 steps. Like an actual ****ing retard. How ****ing stupid are you? :facepalm

He'd have to jump with a 50" vertical to gain the horizontal distance to cover that distance, from 3 steps. You're a ****ing moron, never post again.

:lol Like you are remotely smart enough to pretend knowing how high he had to get. You can't even hold a smart conversation on your better days.

Wilt, at Kansas triple jumped 45 feet plus - That's the distance from half court line to out of bounds - this is a little less than what women do today but I seen a Russian lady do 50 feet without much speed and I assure it wasn't a 50 inch vertical. Wilt long jumped 22 feet about 6 more feet needed for a foul line leap. The question is how much explosion momentum can Wilt get in three steps? I don't know and you don't know. We know he was very explosive. But I trust Tex Winters more than I do you. You think he could be in charge of rules if he was making things up.

[bwink23]

It does not take a engineer to conclude that a 250lb+ guy has to jump 18" (horizontal distance), while the effects of DRAG, and GRAVITY are pulling you down. How much speed you think he can get from 3 steps while losing over 2 feet a second while in the air?


I don't see any calculations here.....surely you can put up some calculations.

[Pointguard]

more tall tails from Wilt fans

"he would block all of Bynum's shots"

sure, sure believe that
50" vertical
20,000 women
beat up mountain lion
dunks freethrows
yada yada yada
We never bring that up. When yall guys start loosing arguments yall try the art of distraction and go that route. Its a desperation move and you do it all the time. Count how many times you and your boys have brought it up. Its pathetic.

[bwink23]

If he was in the league in the 60s, people would say Wilt who?


It was the same way for him in the 2000's in his prime.

[bwink23]

We never bring that up. When yall guys start loosing arguments yall try the art of distraction and go that route. Its a desperation move and you do it all the time. Count how many times you and your boys have brought it up. Its pathetic.


Of course....that's what children do. :cry:

[Pointguard]

Don't get me wrong, he's a phenomenal athlete. I can't stand retards who claim he can FT dunk from 3 steps. You'd think one person at the time would be like "hey, this guy did something I've never seen before, I should take a picture". I take all these Wilt claims with a grain of salt.

:lol And that would work for you. You aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer are you.

[Deuce Bigalow]

We never bring that up. When yall guys start loosing arguments yall try the art of distraction and go that route. Its a desperation move and you do it all the time. Count how many times you and your boys have brought it up. Its pathetic.
It's because you guys keep bring up fairy tales
"he dunked from the freethrow line" and "he would block all of Bynum's attempts"


Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs (career 6.0 RPG)
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)

that is the list, how am I "losing" anything?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Of course....that's what children do. :cry:
just stop Bryan

[Pointguard]

It's because you guys keep bring up fairy tales
"he dunked from the freethrow line" and "he would block all of Bynum's attempts"


Mel Counts - 7'0", 230 lbs (career 6.0 RPG)
Swede Halbrook - 7'3" 235 lbs (played only 2 seasons)

that is the list, how am I "losing" anything?
Once again, the freethrow line reference is Shown Here by one the most respected and successful guys in modern day basketball. A guy that was in basketball for 60years and will be in the HOF.

When I say loosing I mean people bringing up that its always about quality and never about height, weight or physical attributes. Its only about a combination of quality, skills and attitude.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Once again, the freethrow line reference is Shown Here by one the most respected and successful guys in modern day basketball. A guy that was in basketball for 60years and will be in the HOF.

When I say loosing I mean people bringing up that its always about quality and never about height, weight or physical attributes. Its only about a combination of quality, skills and attitude.
Sorry size matters. It just does.
Doesn't matter how skilled a great defender is if he's 3-5" shorter and 20-50 lbs lighter it's hard to contest shots effectively

btw it's losing not loosing

[bwink23]

Sorry size matters. It just does.
Doesn't matter how skilled a great defender is if he's 3-5" shorter and 20-50 lbs lighter it's hard to contest shots effectively

btw it's losing not loosing


Yet you sight Ben Wallace as "being a match" for Shaq......:no:

:facepalm children, what are you gonna do.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yet you sight Ben Wallace as "being a match" for Shaq......:no:

:facepalm children, what are you gonna do.
look at Ben Wallace's body(no homo), that's one exception , oh and he's 240 lbs..probably even more than that

Bryan, will he ever learn?

[The Choken One]

As why I never rate Wilt over Kobe, Shaq, KAJ, Magic or Bird....and obviously Jordan.

[bwink23]

look at Ben Wallace's body(no homo), that's one exception , oh and he's 240 lbs..probably even more than that

Bryan, will he ever learn?


Wallace was giving away 80+ pounds to Shaq......:no:

That's like Wilt being guarded a 210-pound guy...

KIDS :hammerhead:

[Pointguard]

Sorry size matters. It just does.
Doesn't matter how skilled a great defender is if he's 3-5" shorter and 20-50 lbs lighter it's hard to contest shots effectively

btw it's losing not loosing

8 of the last 10 DPOY awards were under 6'11. 20 of the last 27 were 6'10 and under. The multiple winners were smaller centers DH, B Wallace, Alonzo, Hakeem, Rodman. With only Deek as the only multiple 7 footer winning - a 13 to 4 disparity in favor of the smaller centers. So you're loooosin mo' ground in your argument.

[bwink23]

8 of the last 10 DPOY awards were under 6'11. 20 of the last 27 were 6'10 and under. The multiple winners were smaller centers DH, B Wallace, Alonzo, Hakeem, Rodman. With only Deek as the only multiple 7 footer winning - a 13 to 4 disparity in favor of the smaller centers. So you're loooosin mo' ground in your argument.


Are you saying Vlade Divac wasn't a Defensive Player of the Year?? That's CRAZY!!! :rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

8 of the last 10 DPOY awards were under 6'11. 20 of the last 27 were 6'10 and under. The multiple winners were smaller centers DH, B Wallace, Alonzo, Hakeem, Rodman. With only Deek as the only multiple 7 footer winning - a 13 to 4 disparity in favor of the smaller centers. So you're loooosin mo' ground in your argument.
Howard - 240 lbs
Hakeem - 255 lbs
Wallace - 240 lbs
Mutombo - 245 lbs
Mourning - 240 lbs

No player in Wilt's time weighed over 235 lbs

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wallace was giving away 80+ pounds to Shaq......:no:

That's like Wilt being guarded a 210-pound guy...

KIDS :hammerhead:
Wallace is stronger than any player that played in that era

[bwink23]

Howard - 240 lbs
Hakeem - 255 lbs
Wallace - 240 lbs
Mutombo - 245 lbs
Mourning - 240 lbs

No player in Wilt's time weighed over 235 lbs


AGAIN...how is this any different than Shaquille Oneal, who had 60-80 pounds on those guys??

[bwink23]

Wallace is stronger than any player that played in that era


That means NOTHING going against Shaq....Shaq's size and strength makes Ben look like a BUG.

[Deuce Bigalow]

AGAIN...how is this any different than Shaquille Oneal, who had 60-80 pounds on those guys??
There are so many 7 footers in Shaq's era, he had a weight advantage but not a height one all the time,most teams have a 7 footer

[jstern]

Haven't read this thread, but in fairness there were like 8 teams back then.

8 * 12 = 96 players in the league
30 * 12 - 360 players in the league

Still, I would have expected a few more.

[Pointguard]

Howard - 240 lbs
Hakeem - 255 lbs
Wallace - 240 lbs
Mutombo - 245 lbs
Mourning - 240 lbs

No player in Wilt's time weighed over 235 lbs

Didn't realize til you put it here... but 250lbs (as that is the more honest weight) is the perfect weight for DPOY. Ha, if you think your boy is going to be 245 -250 pounds, make sure you teach him sound defensive fundamentals. Lebron does have a chance.

[Pointguard]

Duece in the 60's slim was moreso the style. People didn't have access to gyms so they weren't buff and they just didn't eat much.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Seriously lets be real here Wilt fans, the 60s did not have the bigger players like they do now, or the stronger players, just admit this.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duece in the 60's slim was moreso the style. People didn't have access to gyms so they weren't buff and they just didn't eat much.
Most of it is natural growth, I've seen plenty of young teenagers already be big when their like 14

[bwink23]

Seriously lets be real here Wilt fans, the 60s did not have the bigger players like they do now, or the stronger players, just admit this.


Shaq in his prime was basically a bigger, modern-day Wilt Chamberlain as far as size goes....i already told you the listed heights of those players is inaccurate in today's game cuz they were measured without shoes. Bill Russell was closer to 6-11 than 6-9....

Everyone knows players today are heavier and stronger due to advancements in training and nutrition....which means if Wilt were playing today, he's be an even BIGGER monster....he'd be taking all the "supplements", eating the food, getting the rest, getting the training, getting the therapy...he would have started advanced training in high school and thru college before ever hitting the NBA.

So your partially right....players are heavier and stronger, and Wilt would have been even BETTER as well.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq in his prime was basically a bigger, modern-day Wilt Chamberlain as far as size goes....i already told you the listed heights of those players is inaccurate in today's game cuz they were measured without shoes. Bill Russell was closer to 6-11 than 6-9....

Everyone knows players today are heavier and stronger due to advancements in training and nutrition....which means if Wilt were playing today, he's be an even BIGGER monster....he'd be taking all the "supplements", eating the food, getting the rest, getting the training, getting the therapy...he would have started advanced training in high school and thru college before ever hitting the NBA.

So your partially right....players are heavier and stronger, and Wilt would have been even BETTER as well.
Today, it would neutralize him, he wouldn't stand out as the big guy anymore and have an easy time.

[bwink23]

Most of it is natural growth, I've seen plenty of young teenagers already be big when their like 14


Did you see the transition that players made to the weight room in the early 1990's?? Players got bigger easily. Look at Jordan, Pippen, Rodman before and after weight training, and that was in their late 20's. There's no genetic difference in humans in the 60's and now that made them incapable of putting on weight.

[bwink23]

Today, it would neutralize him, he wouldn't stand out as the big guy anymore and have an easy time.


You mean like Shaq did in the 2000's, requiring constant double and triple teams to contain him??? :rolleyes:

[Kblaze8855]

I thought it was common knowledge players were measured flat footed and their rookie weights are listed in the record books. Its like listing Kobe 6'5 1/2'' and 190 pounds or Dwight 6'9'' 240 which is his predraft workout size. Guysl ike Wayne Embry are listed literally 60 pounds short of reality in their primes. Nate Thurmond was listed as being 2 inches taller but 10 pounds lighter than Kevin Durant.

http://i49.tinypic.com/r1jyuu.jpg




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0803/nba.streaks.franchise/images/1972.warriors.thurmond.jpg


Anyone else find that unlikely?

[bwink23]

I thought it was common knowledge players were measured flat footed and their rookie weights are listed in the record books. Its like listing Kobe 6'5 1/2'' and 190 pounds or Dwight 6'9'' 240 which is his predraft workout size. Guysl ike Wayne Embry are listed literally 60 pounds short of reality in their primes. Nate Thurmond was listed as being 2 inches taller but 10 pounds lighter than Kevin Durant.

http://i49.tinypic.com/r1jyuu.jpg




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0803/nba.streaks.franchise/images/1972.warriors.thurmond.jpg




Anyone else find that unlikely?




Kevin Durant is way more muscular than that....:rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I thought it was common knowledge players were measured flat footed and their rookie weights are listed in the record books. Its like listing Kobe 6'5 1/2'' and 190 pounds or Dwight 6'9'' 240 which is his predraft workout size. Guysl ike Wayne Embry are listed literally 60 pounds short of reality in their primes. Nate Thurmond was listed as being 2 inches taller but 10 pounds lighter than Kevin Durant.

http://i49.tinypic.com/r1jyuu.jpg




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0803/nba.streaks.franchise/images/1972.warriors.thurmond.jpg


Anyone else find that unlikely?
Thurmond is listed at 225, Durant 215
Durant is under 200 in real life

[bwink23]

Thurmond is listed at 225, Durant 215
Durant is under 200 in real life


And you would know that, HOW??? :rolleyes:

KIDS.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And you would know that, HOW??? :rolleyes:

KIDS.
the kid is a long toothpick Bryan

[Lebron23]

Thurmond is listed at 225, Durant 215
Durant is under 200 in real life


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/kevin-durant-390/

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/kevin-durant-390/
lets be honest though, does he look anywhere near 215?

[Kblaze8855]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_durant/

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3202/kevin-durant

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4244


235 on all 3.

And I assure you...in 30 years....people will assume it was what the NBA listed. Which is exactly why topics like this exist. Those weights are just not reality.

[Lebron23]

lets be honest though, does he look anywhere near 215?


He probably gained some weight. Durant was only an 18 yrs.old kid back in 2007.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/writers/paul_forrester/04/21/west.offseason/p1.durant.jpg

2007 Kevin Durant

6'9" 215 lbs

http://www.officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/Kevin-Durant-psd74200.png

2012 Kevin Durant

6"10-6'10.5" 230-235 lbs

[ralph_i_el]

The funny part is how some posters will defend these scrub 50s players like they were some type of Gods. Prime Bill Russell in todays league is playing for the D-league

The guy could jump out of the gym are you kidding me?:roll: :facepalm

[DKLaker]

Very bad example dude. Shaq played in the greatest center era in NBA history.... the 90's and even early 00's. Hakeem, Robinson, Mutumbo, Smits, Daughtery, Wallace, Sabonis, Ewing, Zo etc were all in their prime... list goes on. The average center of the 90's would be a starting center today most likely.

Even if Wilt was only two or three inches taller than these players on average.. him outweighing them by 70+ pounds on average is a HUGE advantage.

Plus those guys were weak and not talented....except Bellamy and Russell.

Damn I am feeling old.....I watched those guys play :eek:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Plus those guys were weak and not talented....except Bellamy and Russell.

Damn I am feeling old.....I watched those guys play :eek:
So was that era weaker?

[WillC]

I think it's quite clear from this thread that the people who try to dismiss Wilt's talent are just a bunch of kids who know nothing about basketball and probably think that Jeremy Lin is better than Michael Jordan.

Meanwhile, those of us who can actually string a sentence together without swearing and those of us who understand the game of basketball just happen to be the ones who rate Wilt highly.

Coincidence? I think not.

Conclusion: Kids have no idea what they are talking about.

[bwink23]

I think it's quite clear from this thread that the people who try to dismiss Wilt's talent are just a bunch of kids who know nothing about basketball and probably think that Jeremy Lin is better than Michael Jordan.

Meanwhile, those of us who can actually string a sentence together without swearing and and those of us who understand the game of basketball just happen to be the ones who rate Wilt highly.

Coincidence? I think not.

Conclusion: Kids have no idea what they are talking about.


You nailed it....any kid who thinks Andrew Bynum is on the level of Chamberlain just cuz he's big, needs to get his head examined....Bynum's been through l,000 injuries and surgeries in his short career...he wouldn't have survived 2 years in the run and gun style of the 60's.

[dreja]

Conclusion: Kids have no idea what they are talking about.
Amen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYEbga0XueA



This thread is like saying that Tom Cruise is a better actor, than Kirk Douglas or Lawrence Olivier.

[jlauber]

Here is a list of the players who played in Wilt's NBA who were 6-11 or taller...

Ray Felix 6-11 65
Chuck Share 6-11
Walter Dukes 7-0
Swede Halbrook 7-3
Walt Bellamy 6-11
Nate Thurmond 6-11
Reggie Harding 7-0
Mel Counts 7-0
Walt Wesley 6-11
Hank Finkel 7-0
Craig Spitzer 7-0
Craig Raymond 6-11
Otto Moore 6-11
Rich Niemann 7-0
Tom Boerwinkle 7-0 265
Dave Newmark 7-0
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7-2
Greg Fillmore 7-1 240
George Johnson 6-11 245
Bob Lanier 6-11 250
Elmore Smith 7-0 250
Tom Payne 7-2 240
Vic Bartolome 7-0 230
Jim McDaniels 6-11
William Smith 7-0
George Johnson 6-11 (yes another G. Johnson)
LaRue Martin 6-11

Artis Gilmore 7-2 240 (yes, Wilt faced Gilmore in the 71-72 ABA-NBA All Star game, and more than held his own against him.)

I listed the 6-11+ players because, as was already mentioned previously, players were generally measured in bare-feet in the 60's and 70's. So, the reality was, most all of the above would be listed at 7-0+ feet today. Granted, some of the above were scrubs, and some only played briefly. BTW, there a TON of players who were 6-10, as well.

Having said that, however, I could list the 7-0+ clods who had played in the NBA in the last 30 years. Players like 7-5 Chuck Neavitt, or 7-2 Randy Breuer. Even the 7-7 Manute Bol was basically worthless. He could block some shots, and he could occasionally heave a miraculous 3 pt shot, but other than that, he was a joke. I still remember 6-9 Orlando Woolridge just shoving him out of the lane and easily dunking on several possessions in one game.

Furthermore, there were players in the 60's and 70's who were taller than their listed height. Bill Russell was listed at 6-10 in college, and only 6-9 in the pros. However, even he admitted he was 6-10. That, along with his 7-4 wingspan, and world-class leaping ability gave him the ability to reach heights that few ever have.

John Block is listed at 6-9 at basketball reference.com, but many publications listed him at 6-10 at the time. Same with 6-10 LeRoy Ellis, who was commonly listed at 6-11, and Connie Dierking, who was actually listed at 6-10 throughout his career. Even 6-9 Bob McAdoo was often listed at 6-10. Bill Walton was known to have been over 7-0, but was listed at 6-11. Those that played with Kareem and Wilt would tell you that they were taller than 7-2 and 7-1 respectively. And Nate Thurmond, who was 6-11, had a longer wingspan than Chamberlain, who had a legitimate 7-8 spread.

And, the opposite has been true in the last 30 years. There was no way Hakeem was even close to 7-0. 6-10 was probably being generous. Ben Wallace himself would tell you he was 6-7, and not his listed 6-9. Dwight Howard and Kevin Love are NOT 6-11, and are probably actually closer to 6-9. Ralph Sampson was never 7-4, and in fact, Mark Eaton, who was a legitimate 7-4 claimed that Sampson was no more than 7-2 (and Sampson had very short arms BTW.) And I have seen a photograph with Shaq, Wilt, and Ewing, and there was no way Ewing was 7-0. Duncan is no taller than 6-11.

Kblaze already covered the listed weights. Most of them are laughable. Thurmond was easily 235, and probably heavier. Wayne Embry was listed at 240, but many publications had him at between 250-260. Tom Boerwinkle was 265 in his rookie season, and was around 280 for much of his career. Dennis Awtry was 6-10 235. Same with Sam Lacey. Wes Unseld, while only 6-7, was easily 245. Artis Gilmore's listed weight of 240 is a complete joke. He was nearly 300 lbs later in his career. Bob Lanier is listed at 250, but was playing at around 265. PHILA posted an article in which the 6-9 Luke Jackson came to camp at 272 lbs. In fact, you could probably easily add 20+ lbs to nearly every player who has ever played in the NBA.

And that list of players came in leagues that ranged from eight to 17 teams throughout Chamberlain's career, instead of the 23-30 teams that the NBA had in the last 30 years.

And, Chamberlain just CRUSHED his peers. I looked up a few games in which 7-0 Walter Dukes and Wilt battled, of their many, and in two in a row, Wilt had games of 56 and 58. I did a quick lookup of a couple of games between 7-0 Reggie Harding and Chamberlain, and in one Wilt pounded him by a 52-2 margin. It's hard to say how much the 7-3 Swede Halbrook played against Wilt, because he was usually backing up 6-9 Red Kerr, but in one game, Wilt had a 56 point game. Chamberlain also had 60 and 70+ games against 6-11 Ray Felix.

Of course, Wilt also SHELLED HOFer Willis Reed. In one season alone, covering nine games, Wilt averaged 40.1 ppg against him, including games of 52 and 58. And how about 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy? In one ten game season, Chamberlain averaged 43.7 ppg against him, and in another 10 game season, he averaged an eye-popping 52.7 ppg against him.

A PRIME "scoring" Wilt only faced the 6-11 Thurmond in about a dozen games. However, in a span of 11 games from the last game of the 64-65 season, their nine H2H games in the 65-66 season, and in the first game of the 66-67 season he averaged 30 ppg against Nate, with games of 30 (24 in the 2nd half when his coach asked him to take to Thurmond), 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 points (outscoring him 45-13.) Kareem faced Thurmond in some 50 H2H games, and he seldom scored 30 against him, and his high was only 34.

Chamberlain also averaged 29 ppg against the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier in their five H2H games of the 71-72 season, including one game of 31 points and 32 rebounds. This from a Wilt who was 35 and seldom even shot the ball.

And most posters just look at the players who played in the NBA in the ealy 60's when they try to rip Wilt's numbers. He was scoring 33.5 ppg on .540 shooting (along with 24.6 rpg and 5.2 apg) in the mid-60's. He had a season of 24.1 ppg on .683 in the 66-67 season. He had FOUR games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points in his 67-68 season. When SI ran an article in the 68-69 season, that Wilt could no longer score, he went on a 17 game rampage of 31.1 ppg including a 35 point game against Russell, a 31 point game against Reed, and games of 60 and 66 against Dierking and Fox. Incidently, Kareem came into the league in the very next season, 69-70, and faced those two, as well as Bellamy, Thurmond, and Reed, and never came close to the domination that Wilt had.

And speaking of that 69-70 season...in Wilt's first nine games he was leading the league at 32.2 ppg. His coach had asked him to focus on the offensive end, and he just tore thru the league. He had games of 33, 35, 37 (against 7-0 Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against 6-9 star Bob Rule), and 43 points. He even pounded Kareem with a 25-25 game on 9-14 shooting. However, he shredded his knee in thatr ninth game, and was never quite the same again. Even on one leg, he still averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 in the seven game series in the '70 Finals.

The fact was, Chamberlain played against the likes of Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, McAdoo, Hayes, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, and Kareem...ALL in the HOF. And he was still leading the league in rebounding and setting FG% records against them in his LAST season. Hell, in his LAST post-season, against the likes of 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle, 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond, and 6-9 HOFer Willis Reed, Chamberlain averaged 22.5 rpg in those 17 games...which was the last time anyone averaged more than 17.3 rpg in a post-season!

Once again, the OP makes a fool of himself.

[Psileas]

I think it's quite clear from this thread that the people who try to dismiss Wilt's talent are just a bunch of kids who know nothing about basketball and probably think that Jeremy Lin is better than Michael Jordan.

Meanwhile, those of us who can actually string a sentence together without swearing and those of us who understand the game of basketball just happen to be the ones who rate Wilt highly.

Coincidence? I think not.

Conclusion: Kids have no idea what they are talking about.

Lots of humans are simply mediocre to bad at estimating sizes and values they don't see every day. The human brain is just not wired to perceive such things with accuracy. I've met people who think that Mt Everest is 8,848 km's high. People who think Pluto is as far away as stars. People who have seen 7-footers and called them 8-footers. People who think humans co-existed with dinosaurs some thousands of years ago (newsflash: The Flintstones did not exist). And yes, people who perceive Wilt's talent as Bynum's talent, because the black and white color of many of his films and the reduced athletic capabilities of some of his opponents are too much for them to handle. So, they see Wilt taking fade-away shots while raising way above the basket at the same time and still think that modern centers would swat such shots away, although most of the times all these centers are not even able to block penetrating guards that shoot just next to their noses (and this has been the case for the last 50 years or so, so don't take this as a slight against this era's centers). Similarly, they see someone like Nate Thurmond or Willis Reed being listed at like 220-225 lbs and think this was his real weight, although it's painfully obvious they were bulker/heavier than that. I'm only talking about non-pure haters here.
Of course, the OP is a troll and a hater (and this thread is a troll thread), but overall I have no reason to believe his reasoning goes beyond this level.

[WillC]

Lots of humans are simply mediocre to bad at estimating sizes and values they don't see every day. The human brain is just not wired to perceive such things with accuracy. I've met people who think that Mt Everest is 8,848 km's high. People who think Pluto is as far away as stars. People who have seen 7-footers and called them 8-footers. People who think humans co-existed with dinosaurs some thousands of years ago (newsflash: The Flintstones did not exist). And yes, people who perceive Wilt's talent as Bynum's talent, because the black and white color of many of his films and the reduced athletic capabilities of some of his opponents are too much for them to handle. So, they see Wilt taking fade-away shots while raising way above the basket at the same time and still think that modern centers would swat such shots away, although most of the times all these centers are not even able to block penetrating guards that shoot just next to their noses (and this has been the case for the last 50 years or so, so don't take this as a slight against this era's centers). Similarly, they see someone like Nate Thurmond or Willis Reed being listed at like 220-225 lbs and think this was his real weight, although it's painfully obvious they were bulker/heavier than that. I'm only talking about non-pure haters here.
Of course, the OP is a troll and a hater (and this thread is a troll thread), but overall I have no reason to believe his reasoning goes beyond this level.

Excellent analogies. And, of course, you're right; kids can't comprehend that the human species has not evolved all that much in the last 50 years. Wilt would still boss the NBA if he played today, in the same way that Jordan would still be the best player alive if he played in 2040, and in the same way that LeBron would be one of the best players alive no matter what era he played in.

What do these players have in common? They are/were all physical marvels who were also blessed with tremendous ability and talent. They would thrive in any era.

If there was a fantasy draft of all the current and former NBA superstars based purely on height, athleticism and talent at the age of twenty, who would be drafted above whom?

This tongue-in-cheek article sums it up nicely: http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/nbas-ultimate-fantasy-draft.html

[Pointguard]

Here is a list of the players who played in Wilt's NBA who were 6-11 or taller...

Ray Felix 6-11 65
Chuck Share 6-11
Walter Dukes 7-0
Swede Halbrook 7-3
Walt Bellamy 6-11
Nate Thurmond 6-11
Reggie Harding 7-0
Mel Counts 7-0
Walt Wesley 6-11
Hank Finkel 7-0
Craig Spitzer 7-0
Craig Raymond 6-11
Otto Moore 6-11
Rich Niemann 7-0
Tom Boerwinkle 7-0 265
Dave Newmark 7-0
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7-2
Greg Fillmore 7-1 240
George Johnson 6-11 245
Bob Lanier 6-11 250
Elmore Smith 7-0 250
Tom Payne 7-2 240
Vic Bartolome 7-0 230
Jim McDaniels 6-11
William Smith 7-0
George Johnson 6-11 (yes another G. Johnson)
LaRue Martin 6-11

Artis Gilmore 7-2 240 (yes, Wilt faced Gilmore in the 71-72 ABA-NBA All Star game, and more than held his own against him.)

I listed the 6-11+ players because, as was already mentioned previously, players were generally measured in bare-feet in the 60's and 70's. So, the reality was, most all of the above would be listed at 7-0+ feet today. Granted, some of the above were scrubs, and some only played briefly. BTW, there a TON of players who were 6-10, as well.

Furthermore, there were players in the 60's and 70's who were taller than their listed height. Bill Russell was listed at 6-10 in college, and only 6-9 in the pros. However, even he admitted he was 6-10. That, along with his 7-4 wingspan, and world-class leaping ability gave him the ability to reach heights that few ever have.

And, the opposite has been true in the last 30 years. There was no way Hakeem was even close to 7-0. 6-10 was probably being generous. Ben Wallace himself would tell you he was 6-7, and not his listed 6-9. Dwight Howard and Kevin Love are NOT 6-11, and are probably actually closer to 6-9. Ralph Sampson was never 7-4, and in fact, Mark Eaton, who was a legitimate 7-4 claimed that Sampson was no more than 7-2 (and Sampson had very short arms BTW.) And I have seen a photograph with Shaq, Wilt, and Ewing, and there was no way Ewing was 7-0. Duncan is no taller than 6-11.

Artis Gilmore's listed weight of 240 is a complete joke. He was nearly 300 lbs later in his career. Bob Lanier is listed at 250, but was playing at around 265. PHILA posted an article in which the 6-9 Luke Jackson came to camp at 272 lbs. In fact, you could probably easily add 20+ lbs to nearly every player who has ever played in the NBA.

Great Post.

Gilmore looked bigger to me than Wilt in that Allstar game. He was a big cat. Robert Parrish said Gilmore was the strongest guy he ever played against. Parrish played against Shaq. He said this when the conversation was about Shaq. So yeah, the listings are null and void.

[WillC]

But Pointguard, you do realise that players in the 1960s and 1970s had no athleticism and would get pushed around by today's centers? Right?!

Oh, ok, maybe not. Here are some pictures of Artis Gilmore to perhaps prove otherwise.

http://www.artisgilmore.com/imgs_2/Artishomeimg_sml.jpg

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lugsj9M2gU1qm9rypo1_500.jpg

http://www.remembertheaba.com/TeamMaterial/KentuckyMaterial/GilmoreDribblePaultz2.jpg

Sure, these guys are probably an average height of 5'10", but it still suggests Gilmore was a lot more than 7'2". Again, I assume his listed height was without shoes. He'd be listed as 7'3" or 7'4" in today's NBA.

http://www.judolphins.com/media/mbasketball/Artis-Gilmore/artis-city%20council.jpg

[DJ Leon Smith]

As if Wilt would be able to compete with the athletic black guys who led the league in rebounds and blocked shots last season.

Lock thread Jeff.

[Pointguard]

But Pointguard, you do realise that players in the 1960s and 1970s had no athleticism and would get pushed around by today's centers? Right?!
WillC, while I seen limited footage of these guys I couldn't imagine if one of these centers today pushed Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Debushere, Lanier, Wilt, Russell or Unseld with the refs allowing them to bang. They loved full contact - even against bigger guys. Chandler and DH would be the exceptions: they don't go out of their way to do it, but they got some warrior in them.

[WillC]

WillC, while I seen limited footage of these guys I couldn't imagine if one of these centers today pushed Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Debushere, Lanier, Wilt, Russell or Unseld with the refs allowing them to bang. They loved full contact - even against bigger guys. Chandler and DH would be the exceptions: they don't go out of their way to do it, but they got some warrior in them.

I agree 100% (just to be clear, I was being sarcastic in my previous post - the centers of the 1960/70s were a lot tougher and arguably more athletic than many of today's stiffs).

You chose some good examples. Cowens had arguably the most psychotic attitude in NBA history. He was a real warrior. Obviously Reed, Unseld and Lanier are other excellent examples that people sometimes forget about.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I agree 100% (just to be clear, I was being sarcastic in my previous post - the centers of the 1960/70s were a lot tougher and arguably more athletic than many of today's stiffs).

You chose some good examples. Cowens had arguably the most psychotic attitude in NBA history. He was a real warrior. Obviously Reed, Unseld and Lanier are other excellent examples that people sometimes forget about.
Please please enough with the tall tales

[WillC]

Please please enough with the tall tales

Back under your bridge, troll. Don't emerge again until you've done your homework.

[PTB Fan]

Excellent analogies. And, of course, you're right; kids can't comprehend that the human species has not evolved all that much in the last 50 years. Wilt would still boss the NBA if he played today, in the same way that Jordan would still be the best player alive if he played in 2040, and in the same way that LeBron would be one of the best players alive no matter what era he played in.

What do these players have in common? They are/were all physical marvels who were also blessed with tremendous ability and talent. They would thrive in any era.

If there was a fantasy draft of all the current and former NBA superstars based purely on height, athleticism and talent at the age of twenty, who would be drafted above whom?

This tongue-in-cheek article sums it up nicely: http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/nbas-ultimate-fantasy-draft.html


I checked the blog, nice writing you have there. I'm doing some writing on the blogs, even though i'm not older than 18. I like to write up stuffs about the league history and try to learn the history of the game.

From what i've seen, excellent work. I like that Dr J article. You could make a case for Elgin, who's overlooked as a superstar as well.

And btw, i completely agree with the post.

[Deuce Bigalow]

someone post the article/quote with the "to prevent freak activity"

I always get a good chuckle out of that :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

and also the "dunks the ball so hard that it crushes the opponents toes"

[WillC]

I checked the blog, nice writing you have there. I'm doing some writing on the blogs, even though i'm not older than 18. I like to write up stuffs about the league history and try to learn the history of the game.

From what i've seen, excellent work. I like that Dr J article. You could make a case for Elgin, who's overlooked as a superstar as well.

And btw, i completely agree with the post.

Thanks. I wish I had more time for my blog. One of my articles was published in MVP magazine this month, which is the fourth time I've had an article published.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406950_281004895287566_107060702681987_697521_1582 5266_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377503_279803655407690_107060702681987_694688_1335 07665_n.jpg

http://www.ekmresponse.com/Documents/1433/Images/Limited%20Edition%20Cover%20m.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/310792_246958418692214_107060702681987_616718_1233 026111_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/33929_122501401137917_107060702681987_125196_50682 43_n.jpg

[bwink23]

someone post the article/quote with the "to prevent freak activity"

I always get a good chuckle out of that :lol


Children, what are you gonna do....:rolleyes:

[millwad]

Here is a list of the players who played in Wilt's NBA who were 6-11 or taller...

Ray Felix 6-11 65 - Not in his prime
Chuck Share 6-11 - Crap and only played 1 crappy season after Wilt's arrival
Walter Dukes 7-0 - Not anything special at all
Swede Halbrook 7-3 - Garbage and only played for 2 years
Walt Bellamy 6-11 - Baller obviously
Nate Thurmond 6-11 - Baller
Reggie Harding 7-0 - Garbage
Mel Counts 7-0 - Garbage
Walt Wesley 6-11 - Mediocre at best
Hank Finkel 7-0 - Garbage
Craig Spitzer 7-0 - Haha, he played 10 NBA games..:facepalm
Craig Raymond 6-11 - Played 27 NBA games..:facepalm
Otto Moore 6-11 - Mediocre at best
Rich Niemann 7-0 - Played 40 NBA games..:facepalm
Tom Boerwinkle 7-0 265 - Mediocre at best
Dave Newmark 7-0 - Scrub
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7-2 - GOAT center
Greg Fillmore 7-1 240 - Scrub and played 49 games.. :facepalm
George Johnson 6-11 245 - Scrub and played 69 NBA games
Bob Lanier 6-11 250 - Baller, obviously but barely faced Wilt
Elmore Smith 7-0 250 - Mediocre
Tom Payne 7-2 240 - Played 29 NBA games..:facepalm
Vic Bartolome 7-0 230 - Played 38 games..:facepalm
Jim McDaniels 6-11 - Mediocre
William Smith 7-0 - played 30 NBA games..:facepalm
George Johnson 6-11 - Scrub
LaRue Martin 6-11 - Biggest bust of all time..


Fixed, at least this time you didn't mention players who never faced Wilt like the last time when you mentioned ABA-players and college players etc., haha.. :facepalm

Still, Wilt in his stats prime barely faced anyone tall and skilled..

Wilt in his 50 point per game season only faced Walter Dukes and Swede who were 7'0 or taller if I recall correctly which is very interesting. NBA with a total amount of three players who were 7'0 or taller..

[bwink23]

Fixed, at least this time you didn't mention players who never faced Wilt like the last time when you mentioned ABA-players and college players etc., haha.. :facepalm

Still, Wilt in his stats prime barely faced anyone tall and skilled..


You are in no place to judge these players....your own mom probably wasn't even born yet....:rolleyes:

[millwad]

You are in no place to judge these players....your own mom probably wasn't even born yet....:rolleyes:

Is that so, Brian?

If you think that guys like Jlauber actually saw these players play you are completely wrong, Jlauber himself changed his mind regarding Wilt and his era over some youtube-footage and quotes more then 40 years after the games were played.

[bwink23]

Is that so, Brian?

If you think that guys like Jlauber actually saw these players play you are completely wrong, Jlauber himself changed his mind regarding Wilt and his era over some youtube-footage and quotes more then 40 years after the games were played.


DOESN'T MATTER......your making statements on judging players abilities of which you don't know what 90% of them even look like....:sleeping

[millwad]

DOESN'T MATTER......your making statements on judging players abilities of which you don't know what 90% of them even look like....:sleeping

It sure as hell matters, you seem to be butthurt since you only called me out in this thread which is funny when we're talking about players who played 50 years ago.

You must be naive if you actually think that anyone in this thread saw those guys play. Even the self-proclaimed Wilt historian Jlauber copies and pastes all his posts and changed his mind over youtube and quotes..

You actually think that he saw all those players play a la Reggie Harding, Vic Bartolome and Hank Finkel etc?:facepalm

He got his list from basketball-reference and google, go and ask him and everyone lese in this thread about their abilities..:facepalm

[bwink23]

It sure as hell matters, you seem to be butthurt since you only called me out in this thread which is funny when we're talking about players who played 50 years ago.

You must be naive if you actually think that anyone in this thread saw those guys play. Even the self-proclaimed Wilt historian Jlauber copies and pastes all his posts and changed his mind over youtube and quotes..

You actually think that he saw all those players play a la Reggie Harding, Vic Bartolome and Hank Finkel etc?:facepalm

He got his list from basketball-reference and google, go and ask him and everyone lese in this thread about their abilities..:facepalm



You don't seem to get it, so i'm gonna explain it to you....in your post you said you "fixed"....you made direct comments about players in such a way that implied that you knew who they were, and what their abilities was like. That's ridiculous. Calling a player you've never seen before "mediocre" is stupid considering you've never watched them play. Your idiotic post has nothing to do with anyone else but yourself....:hammerhead:

[millwad]

You don't seem to get it, so i'm gonna explain it to you....in your post you said you "fixed"....you made direct comments about players in such a way that implied that you knew who they were, and what their abilities was like. That's ridiculous. Calling a player you've never seen before "mediocre" is stupid considering you've never watched them play. Your idiotic post has nothing to do with anyone else but yourself....:hammerhead:

First of all, Brian, we know it's you.
I know you're butthurt and all but this is just pathetic..

And 2nd, you can get a hint of a players skillset and abilities through stats and I didn't write that I was some kind of expert but it's easy to tell if someone's mediocre or garbage and that was the only thing I did.

Do you need a 5 page analyze of players who played 60 games in their NBA career? A scrub is a scrub. Or players who never made any all-NBA team or weren't even close and who had short statistical peaks where they didn't excel in anything? A player like that is mediocre no matter what. Go find something controversial with my previous post, Brian..

Clown..:facepalm

[bwink23]

First of all, Brian, we know it's you.
I know you're butthurt and all but this is just pathetic..

And 2nd, you can get a hint of a players skillset and abilities through stats and I didn't write that I was some kind of expert but it's easy to tell if someone's mediocre or garbage and that was the only thing I did.

Do you need a 5 page analyze of players who played 60 games in their NBA career? A scrub is a scrub. Or players who never made any all-NBA team or weren't even close and who had short statistical peaks where they didn't excel in anything? A player like that is mediocre no matter what. Go find something controversial with my previous post, Brian..

Clown..:facepalm


First of all, i'm not this Brian dude you keep referring too....Second, you know you didn't research shit about any of those guys......:no:

[bwink23]

First of all, Brian, we know it's you.
I know you're butthurt and all but this is just pathetic..

And 2nd, you can get a hint of a players skillset and abilities through stats and I didn't write that I was some kind of expert but it's easy to tell if someone's mediocre or garbage and that was the only thing I did.

Do you need a 5 page analyze of players who played 60 games in their NBA career? A scrub is a scrub. Or players who never made any all-NBA team or weren't even close and who had short statistical peaks where they didn't excel in anything? A player like that is mediocre no matter what. Go find something controversial with my previous post, Brian..

Clown..:facepalm


By the way, nice bandwagon avatar Dillwad. Fall in line with the rest of the posers. :lol

[jlauber]

Fixed, at least this time you didn't mention players who never faced Wilt like the last time when you mentioned ABA-players and college players etc., haha.. :facepalm

Still, Wilt in his stats prime barely faced anyone tall and skilled..

Wilt in his 50 point per game season only faced Walter Dukes and Swede who were 7'0 or taller if I recall correctly which is very interesting. NBA with a total amount of three players who were 7'0 or taller..

First of all, the idiotic OP claimed that Wilt faced two players who were 7-0 in his CAREER. I just listed 14 seven-footers that played in the Chamberlain-era, and another 13 who would be listed at 7-0 in TODAY's game...or TWENTY-SEVEN of them.

Secondly, in Wilt's "scoring" prime, he not only was scoring 50-60-70 points against 7-0 Reggie Harding, 7-3 Swede Halbrook, 7-0 Walter Dukes, and 6-11 Ray Felix...he had SEASONS, covering 9+ games in a season, of 40.1 ppg against Reed; 43.7 ppg and get this, 52.7 ppg against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy; 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg against 6-10 HOFer Bill Russell (who was a WORLD-CLASS high-jumper with a 7-4 wingspan); as well as a string of 11 straight games against 6-11 Nate Thurmond, in which he averaged 30 ppg (including games of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and even 45 points.) BTW, find me a game in which Kareem scored 38 points against a starting Nate Thurmond, much less 45 points...and Kareem faced him in some 50 H2H games. And even as late as Wilt's 71-72 season, he was scoring 29 ppg in 5 H2H games against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier.

And that does not include his absolute DOMINATION in terms of rebounding. You would be hard-pressed to find very many single games in Chamberlain's entire career, in which he was outrebounded. Russell, who was the game' second greatest rebounder of all-time, managed to outrebound Chamberlain in 42 H2H games, most of them barely. BUT, Wilt outrebounded Russell in 92, and in many he just murdered Russell. And Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and outrebounded him by margins of 28.5 to 26.7 rpg, 23.5 rpg to 19.5 rpg, and a 36 year old Chamberlain had a 23.6 to 17.2 rpg edge in Wilt's LAST playoff run. Even in the first one, which was their closest series. Wilt outrebounded Thurmond in 5 of those 6 games.

And how about FG%'s? In the VAST majority of H2H games against virtually any of the MANY HOFers Chamberlain faced, he outshot them, including Kareem, even at way past his peak. He outshot a prime Thurmond in those three straight playoff series by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and a staggering .560 to .343 margin in the '67 Finals. Kareem faced an older Thurmond in three straight playoff series, and shot .486, .428, and an eye-popping .405 from the floor against him.

And once again, the uneducated posters, like yourself, just look at Wilt's 50 ppg season, in a league of nine teams. Of course, Wilt faced Russell in 10 games (and Boston in 12), and averaged 39.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 62.) He faced Bellamy in 10 games, and all he could do was score 52.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 73.) He faced the 6-11 Ray Felix in eight games, and averaged 51.5 ppg in those games, including three of 60+, and a high game of 78. He was pouring in games of 50+ against 7-3 Swede Halbrook and 7-0 Walter Dukes. He had 100 points in a game against 6-10 Darrell Imhoff (granted Imhoff was one of three centers who tried to guard Wilt in that game.) He also battled the 6-9, 240 lb. Clyde Lovellette, who averaged 20.8 ppg that season, three times (Lovellete was injured for 1/2 the season), and Wilt had games of 39, 39, and 53 against him. And multiple all-star 6-9 Red Kerr was routinely surrendering 50+ point games to Chamberlain.

But, here again, a Chamberlain in his 64-65 season, averaged 40.1 ppg against Reed. In his 65-66 season, he averaged 33.0 ppg against Bellamy; 28.9 against Thurmond; 28.3 against Russell (and 31 rpg as well), and then in the playoffs, he averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against Russell. In fact, his 65-66 season was probably the most dominant season ever against an entire league. He was CRUSHING Thurmond, Bellamy, and Russell in those games, as well as pounding the rest of the league. He led the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg; in rebounding, at 24.6 rpg; and set a then-record FG% mark of .540; oh and he also averaged 5.2 apg.

A 66-67 Chamberlain averaged 24.1 ppg, on .683 shooting, with 24.2 rpg, and 7.8 apg, And he was reducing the best centers to under 40% shooting in the known H2H matchups (in the playoffs,he held Dierking to .427, Russell to .358, and Thurmond to .343 shooting...all while shooting .579 himself in those games.)

A 67-68 Chamberlain had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points. In one of those 53 point games, he added 32 rebounds and 14 assists (and 7 blocks.) In that 68 point game, he grabbed 37 rebounds.

A 68-69 Wilt, in his 10th season, went on a 17 game tear in which he shelled every center in the league. He had games of 23 against Thurmond, 31 against Reed, and 35 against Russell...as well as 60 against Dierking and 66 against 6-10 Jim Fox.

A 69-70 Wilt, in his 11th season, was asked to step up offensively, and he responded by LEADING the league in scoring in his first nine games, at 32.2 ppg (and on about 60% shooting.) In those nine games he put up games of 33 (on 13-13 shooting), 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against star center Bob Rule), and 43 points. He also pounded Kareem in one game, with a 25-25 game on 9-14 shooting. He blew out his knee in that ninth game, or he might have went on to win his eighth scoring title...at age 33.

Even in his LAST season, at age 36, he went H2H with Kareem in six regular season games, and outshot Kareem in those six games by a staggering .737 to .450 margin (which even included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting Kareem, 10-14 to 10-27.) Then, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, all he did was average 22.5 rpg...which was the last time a player ever averaged as much as 17.3 ppg in the post-season.

Once again...Wilt faced players like Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore...ALL in the HOF.

So, the fact was, no matter who Chamberlain faced, whether it be other seven-footers, of which there were quite a few in smaller leagues (from 8 to 17 team leagues) or the many HOFers, he was generally outplaying them all. Even into his LAST season. And all of that certainly blows up this theory that Wilt only feasted on helpless 6-6 centers in his career (which was the real intention of the OP BTW.)

[JGXEN]

First of all, the idiotic OP claimed that Wilt faced two players who were 7-0 in his CAREER. I just listed 14 seven-footers that played in the Chamberlain-era, and another 13 who would be listed at 7-0 in TODAY's game...or TWENTY-SEVEN of them.

Secondly, in Wilt's "scoring" prime, he not only was scoring 50-60-70 points against 7-0 Reggie Harding, 7-3 Swede Halbrook, 7-0 Walter Dukes, and 6-11 Ray Felix...he had SEASONS, covering 9+ games in a season, of 40.1 ppg against Reed; 43.7 ppg and get this, 52.7 ppg against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy; 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg against 6-10 HOFer Bill Russell (who was a WORLD-CLASS high-jumper with a 7-4 wingspan); as well as a string of 11 straight games against 6-11 Nate Thurmond, in which he averaged 30 ppg (including games of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and even 45 points.) BTW, find me a game in which Kareem scored 38 points against a starting Nate Thurmond, much less 45 points...and Kareem faced him in some 50 H2H games. And even as late as Wilt's 71-72 season, he was scoring 29 ppg in 5 H2H games against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier.

And that does not include his absolute DOMINATION in terms of rebounding. You would be hard-pressed to find very many single games in Chamberlain's entire career, in which he was outrebounded. Russell, who was the game' second greatest rebounder of all-time, managed to outrebound Chamberlain in 42 H2H games, most of them barely. BUT, Wilt outrebounded Russell in 92, and in many he just murdered Russell. And Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and outrebounded him by margins of 28.5 to 26.7 rpg, 23.5 rpg to 19.5 rpg, and a 36 year old Chamberlain had a 23.6 to 17.2 rpg edge in Wilt's LAST playoff run. Even in the first one, which was their closest series. Wilt outrebounded Thurmond in 5 of those 6 games.

And how about FG%'s? In the VAST majority of H2H games against virtually any of the MANY HOFers Chamberlain faced, he outshot them, including Kareem, even at way past his peak. He outshot a prime Thurmond in those three straight playoff series by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and a staggering .560 to .343 margin in the '67 Finals. Kareem faced an older Thurmond in three straight playoff series, and shot .486, .428, and an eye-popping .405 from the floor against him.

And once again, the uneducated posters, like yourself, just look at Wilt's 50 ppg season, in a league of nine teams. Of course, Wilt faced Russell in 10 games (and Boston in 12), and averaged 39.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 62.) He faced Bellamy in 10 games, and all he could do was score 52.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 73.) He faced the 6-11 Ray Felix in eight games, and averaged 51.5 ppg in those games, including three of 60+, and a high game of 78. He was pouring in games of 50+ against 7-3 Swede Halbrook and 7-0 Walter Dukes. He had 100 points in a game against 6-10 Darrell Imhoff (granted Imhoff was one of three centers who tried to guard Wilt in that game.)

But, here again, a Chamberlain in his 64-65 season, averaged 40.1 ppg against Reed. In his 65-66 season, he averaged 33.0 ppg against Bellamy; 28.9 against Thurmond; 28.3 against Russell (and 31 rpg as well), and then in the playoffs, he averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against Russell. In fact, his 65-66 season was probably the most dominant season ever against an entire league. He was CRUSHING Thurmond, Bellamy, and Russell in those games, as well as pounding the rest of the league. He led the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg; in rebounding, at 24.6 rpg; and set a then-record FG% mark of .540; oh and he also averaged 5.2 apg.

A 66-67 Chamberlain averaged 24.1 ppg, on .683 shooting, with 24.2 rpg, and 7.8 apg, And he was reducing the best centers to under 40% shooting in the known H2H matchups (in the playoffs,he held Dierking to .427, Russell to .358, and Thurmond to .343 shooting...all while shooting .579 himself in those games.)

A 67-68 Chamberlain had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points. In one of those 53 point games, he added 32 rebounds and 14 assists (and 7 blocks.) In that 68 point game, he grabbed 37 rebounds.

A 68-69 Wilt, in his 10th season, went on a 17 game tear in which he shelled every center in the league. He had games of 23 against Thurmond, 31 against Reed, and 35 against Russell...as well as 60 against Dierking and 66 against 6-10 Jim Fox.

A 69-70 Wilt, in his 11th season, was asked to step up offensively, and he responded by LEADING the league in scoring in his first nine games, at 32.2 ppg (and on about 60% shooting.) In those nine games he put up games of 33 (on 13-13 shooting), 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against star center Bob Rule), and 43 points. He also pounded Kareem in one game, with a 25-25 game on 9-14 shooting. He blew out his knee in that ninth game, or he might have went on to win his eighth scoring title...at age 33.

Even in his LAST season, at age 36, he went H2H with Kareem in six regular season games, and outshot Kareem in those six games by a staggering .737 to .450 margin (which even included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting Kareem, 10-14 to 10-27.) Then, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, all he did was average 22.5 rpg...which was the last time a player ever averaged as much as 17.3 ppg in the post-season.

Once again...Wilt faced players like Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore...ALL in the HOF.

So, the fact was, no matter who Chamberlain faced, whether it be other seven-footers, of which there were quite a few in smaller leagues (from 8 to 17 team leagues) or the many HOFers, he was generally outplaying them all. Even into his LAST season. And all of that certainly blows up this theory that Wilt only feasted on helpless 6-6 centers in his career (which was the real intention of the OP BTW.)



http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gif

[millwad]

First of all, the idiotic OP claimed that Wilt faced two players who were 7-0 in his CAREER. I just listed 14 seven-footers that played in the Chamberlain-era, and another 13 who would be listed at 7-0 in TODAY's game...or TWENTY-SEVEN of them.

Well, obviously that's not true but Wilt's competition his first year wasn't that good, you know that and you've even said it yourself. In his 50 point per game season the lack of height and skillset around the league was obvious and the tall one's a la Swede Halbrook, Walter Dukes etc really wasn't anything special..

Although in all Wilt faced good competition in all, I'll get it if someone uses the competition in his early years against him, I do it too but in all he proved himself against some great centers.

[WillC]

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gif

Didn't read? Or can't read?

[JGXEN]

Didn't read? Or can't read?
Awwww you mad? Here's one chicken for you, ******.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gif

[WillC]

Awwww you mad? Here's one chicken for you, ******.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gif

A homophobic kid who spends his life posting GIFs on message boards.

Cool.

[JGXEN]

A homophobic kid who spends his life posting GIFs on message boards.

Cool.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[WillC]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

Cool. Very impressive. Well done, kid.

[millwad]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

HAHAHAHAHAHA! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[jlauber]

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gifhttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/jgxen/didnt_read_chicken_black_man_gif.gif

And yet, you waste your own time to pop in and reply with this?

BTW, I get similar responses quite often...and then the poster goes on to dispute something I claimed in my post. But, yes, they, like you, didn't read it.

[WillC]

And yet, you waste your own time to pop in and reply with this?

BTW, I get similar responses quite often...and then the poster goes on to dispute something I claimed in my post. But, yes, they, like you, didn't read it.

Don't worry - anyone who posts a GIF automatically loses any argument, since it proves they are a kid who doesn't know what they're talking about.

There are only about ten people who use this website who actually know anything about the history of the game.

[jlauber]

Don't worry - anyone who posts a GIF automatically loses any argument, since it proves they are a kid who doesn't know what they're talking about.

There are only about ten people who use this website who actually know anything about the history of the game.

Tragically, this is true.

[millwad]

Don't worry - anyone who posts a GIF automatically loses any argument, since it proves they are a kid who doesn't know what they're talking about.

There are only about ten people who use this website who actually know anything about the history of the game.
And you're one of them? :facepalm
Go and fall in love with them quotes, doggie.

[PTB Fan]

Thanks. I wish I had more time for my blog. One of my articles was published in MVP magazine this month, which is the fourth time I've had an article published.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406950_281004895287566_107060702681987_697521_1582 5266_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377503_279803655407690_107060702681987_694688_1335 07665_n.jpg

http://www.ekmresponse.com/Documents/1433/Images/Limited%20Edition%20Cover%20m.jpg

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https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/33929_122501401137917_107060702681987_125196_50682 43_n.jpg

:applause: :bowdown:

Nice. I'll definitely read more of those articles later. Did you have any offers for writing for other sites? You seem to be really good.

[CavaliersFTW]

Well, obviously that's not true but Wilt's competition his first year wasn't that good, you know that and you've even said it yourself. In his 50 point per game season the lack of height and skillset around the league was obvious and the tall one's a la Swede Halbrook, Walter Dukes etc really wasn't anything special..

Although in all Wilt faced good competition in all, I'll get it if someone uses the competition in his early years against him, I do it too but in all he proved himself against some great centers.

:roll:

Official list heights today (and since ~1980's) have been complete media-hype BS, where as in his era they were generally much closer to the players "in stockings" height. In 1/4 inch thick shoes there really was no such thing "in shoes" height bc there would be no point anyways. Some guys were rounded down (6'9.5 Bill Russell became 6'9, 7'1 1/16th Wilt Chamberlain became 7'1), Jerry west is between 6'2.5-6'2.75 barefoot but for the first half of his career he was listed 6'2 until they bumped him to 6'3... some guys were rounded up (7'1 5/8 KAJ and 7'1 5/16th Artis Gilmore both listed to 7'2). But no guys were like Dwight ****ing Howard (6'9 barefoot, 6'10.25 in shoes, 6'11 official listed height) or any of the rest of the clowns in today's league who are no-where near their actual height.

D. Howard, #1 center in the league today. 6'9... How come 7'1.25" Hasheem Thabeet isn't tearing up the ****in record books today!?

Don't answer that because you'll just say something retarded. Instead just read every single one of these player heights from that NBA 1961-1962 season, when Wilt scored 50.4ppg. It's complete from starters down to the last bench player. Then go right ahead and compared them with all the calculated NBA barefoot measurements displayed on Draft Express from 1989-present as per this tool: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&source=All&draft=100&sort=...

Pure Guards (Let's call them the Point Guards:
Bob Cousy G 6-1
K.C. Jones G 6-1
Gary Phillips G 6-3
Al Attles G 6-0
York Larese G 6-4
Guy Rodgers G 6-0
Al Bianchi G 6-3
Larry Costello G 6-1
Paul Neumann G 6-1
George Blaney G 6-1
Donnie Butcher G 6-2
Al Butler G 6-2
Richie Guerin G 6-4
Whitey Martin G 6-2
Sam Stith G 6-2
Hot Rod Hundley G 6-4
Bob McNeill G 6-1
Bobby Smith G 6-4
Jerry West G 6-2
Bucky Bockhorn G 6-4
Adrian Smith G 6-1
Dave Zeller G 6-1
Johnny Egan G 5-11
Willie Jones G 6-3
Chuck Noble G 6-4
Don Ohl G 6-3
Gene Shue G 6-2
Jimmy Darrow G 5-10
Dick Eichhorst G 6-3
Vern Hatton G 6-3
Cleo Hill G 6-1
Johnny McCarthy G 6-1
Lenny Wilkens G 6-1
Howie Carl G 5-9
Ralph Davis G 6-4
York Larese G 6-4
Slick Leonard G 6-3
1961-62 Season, 37 active, avg = 6-1.89"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 93) avg = 6-1.02"
(Point guards of that season averaged over 3/4 of an inch taller than modern point guards of 1989-present)

Guard/Forward swingmen (Let's call them the Shooting Guards):
Carl Braun G-F 6-5
Sam Jones G-F 6-4
Frank Ramsey F-G 6-3
Paul Arizin F-G 6-4
Ed Conlin F-G 6-5
Tom Gola G-F 6-6
Hal Greer G-F 6-2
Bill Smith G-F 6-5
Frank Selvy G-F 6-3
Oscar Robertson G-F 6-5
Jack Twyman F-G 6-6
George Lee F-G 6-4
Jackie Moreland F-G 6-7
Al Ferrari G-F 6-4
Si Green G-F 6-2
Cliff Hagan F-G 6-4
Fred LaCour G-F 6-5
Bob Sims G-F 6-5
Andy Johnson F-G 6-5
Jack Turner G-F 6-5
1961-62 Season, 20 active, avg = 6-4.45"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 90) avg = 6-3.76"
(Shooting guards of that season average over half an inch taller than shooting guards of 1989-present)

Pure Forwards (Let's call them the Small Forwards):
Gene Guarilia F 6-5
Jim Loscutoff F 6-5
Tom Sanders F 6-6
Ted Luckenbill F 6-6
Tom Meschery F 6-6
Frank Radovich F 6-8
Dave Gambee F 6-6
Joe Roberts F 6-6
Chuck Osborne F 6-6
Lee Shaffer F 6-7
Dave Budd F 6-6
Ed Burton F 6-6
Doug Kistler F 6-9
Elgin Baylor F 6-5
Tom Hawkins F 6-5
Bob Boozer F 6-8
Joe Buckhalter F 6-7
Bob Wiesenhahn F 6-4
Bailey Howell F 6-7
Shellie McMillon F 6-5
S. Arceneaux F 6-4
Horace Walker F 6-3
Barney Cable F 6-7
Ron Horn F 6-7
George Bon S. F 6-8
1961-62 Season, 25 active, avg = 6-6.08"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 91) avg = 6-6.40"
(The average small forward height of that season is only 1/3rd of an inch less than the average small forwards drafted between 1989-present)

Forward/Centers (Let's call them the Power Forwards):
Tom Heinsohn F-C 6-7
Joe Ruklick F-C 6-9
Joe Graboski F-C 6-7
Red Kerr C-F 6-9
Dolph Schayes F-C 6-7
C. Buckner F-C 6-9
Johnny Green F-C 6-5
Phil Jordon C-F 6-10
Willie Naulls F-C 6-6
Howie Jolliff F-C 6-7
Jim Krebs C-F 6-8
Rudy LaRusso F-C 6-7
Wayne Embry C-F 6-8
Hub Reed C-F 6-9
Bob Ferry C-F 6-8
Ray Scott F-C 6-9
Larry Foust C-F 6-9
Clyde Lovellette C-F 6-9
Bob Pettit F-C 6-9
W. Sauldsberry F-C 6-7
Archie Dees F-C 6-8
Joe Graboski F-C 6-7
Dave Piontek F-C 6-6
Charlie Tyra C-F 6-8
1961-62 Season, 24 active, avg = 6-7.83"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 127) avg = 6-7.95"
(The power forwards average height that season is negligible in comparison with all modern power forwards from 1989-present... less than 1/8th of an inch)

Players strictly listed as Centers:
Bill Russell C 6-9 (1/2)
Wilt Chamberlain C 7-1 (1/16)
Swede Halbrook C 7-3
Darrall Imhoff C 6-10
Ray Felix C 6-11
Wayne Yates C 6-8
Bevo Nordmann C 6-10
Walter Dukes C 7-0
Walt Bellamy C 6-11
1961-1962 Season, 9 active, avg = 6-11.06" (6-10.81" excluding Wilt)
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 67) avg = 6-10.44"
(Centers of that season averaged over 1/4 of an inch taller than modern centers, and that is if we exclude Wilt - the difference is more than 1/2 an inch if we included him)

Players get divided this way because in 61-62 there were only 3 recognized positions. G, F, C - and guys that would swing between basically had identical team roles to "SG, PF". www.basketball-reference.com has done an excellent job at indicating the players that were pulling double-duties between 2 positions.

Where's the "short league" evidence!? That looks like a tall year in the G, SG, and Center spots... Tell me Millwad, has your brain ever thought "hey... maybe I should look this shit up first..."? Or are you just a blind sheep that likes to ejaculate hear-say slander and myth about Wilt's era. :hammerhead:


P.S. about the "skillsets"... :roll: GTFO kid, what the hell do you know about skillsets from that time. Name 5 guys that came off the bench from 1961-62 season, then explain to me from your expert scouting perspective, some of the strengths and weaknesses in their game...

:confusedshrug: Help us out bro your the expert

[WillC]

:applause: :bowdown:

Nice. I'll definitely read more of those articles later. Did you have any offers for writing for other sites? You seem to be really good.

Thanks for the kind words.

I got asked if I'd like to write for ballislife.com, which might still happen. I've also written for FadeAway (which was the name of MVP Magazine before they changed their title).

http://www.swishbasketball.net/ekmps/shops/swishbasketball/images/fadeaway-magazine-issue-2-62-pages-12844-p.jpg

http://urban-nerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/fadeaway-magazine-issue-3-jan-2010-15603-p.jpg

[Pointguard]

:applause: :bowdown:

Nice. I'll definitely read more of those articles later. Did you have any offers for writing for other sites? You seem to be really good.

But you can tell by his stuff here! He will definitely get more.... That's for sure.

[Pointguard]

:roll:

Official list heights today (and since ~1980's) have been complete media-hype BS, where as in his era they were generally much closer to the players "in stockings" height. In 1/4 inch thick shoes there really was no such thing "in shoes" height bc there would be no point anyways. Some guys were rounded down (6'9.5 Bill Russell became 6'9, 7'1 1/16th Wilt Chamberlain became 7'1), Jerry west is between 6'2.5-6'2.75 barefoot but for the first half of his career he was listed 6'2 until they bumped him to 6'3... some guys were rounded up (7'1 5/8 KAJ and 7'1 5/16th Artis Gilmore both listed to 7'2). But no guys were like Dwight ****ing Howard (6'9 barefoot, 6'10.25 in shoes, 6'11 official listed height) or any of the rest of the clowns in today's league who are no-where near their actual height.

D. Howard, #1 center in the league today. 6'9... How come 7'1.25" Hasheem Thabeet isn't tearing up the ****in record books today!?

Don't answer that because you'll just say something retarded. Instead just read every single one of these player heights from that NBA 1961-1962 season, when Wilt scored 50.4ppg. It's complete from starters down to the last bench player. Then go right ahead and compared them with all the calculated NBA barefoot measurements displayed on Draft Express from 1989-present as per this tool: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-...raft=100&sort=...

Pure Guards (Let's call them the Point Guards:
Bob Cousy G 6-1
K.C. Jones G 6-1
Gary Phillips G 6-3
Al Attles G 6-0
York Larese G 6-4
Guy Rodgers G 6-0
Al Bianchi G 6-3
Larry Costello G 6-1
Paul Neumann G 6-1
George Blaney G 6-1
Donnie Butcher G 6-2
Al Butler G 6-2
Richie Guerin G 6-4
Whitey Martin G 6-2
Sam Stith G 6-2
Hot Rod Hundley G 6-4
Bob McNeill G 6-1
Bobby Smith G 6-4
Jerry West G 6-2
Bucky Bockhorn G 6-4
Adrian Smith G 6-1
Dave Zeller G 6-1
Johnny Egan G 5-11
Willie Jones G 6-3
Chuck Noble G 6-4
Don Ohl G 6-3
Gene Shue G 6-2
Jimmy Darrow G 5-10
Dick Eichhorst G 6-3
Vern Hatton G 6-3
Cleo Hill G 6-1
Johnny McCarthy G 6-1
Lenny Wilkens G 6-1
Howie Carl G 5-9
Ralph Davis G 6-4
York Larese G 6-4
Slick Leonard G 6-3
1961-62 Season, 37 active, avg = 6-1.89"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 93) avg = 6-1.02"
(Point guards of that season averaged over 3/4 of an inch taller than modern point guards of 1989-present)

Guard/Forward swingmen (Let's call them the Shooting Guards):
Carl Braun G-F 6-5
Sam Jones G-F 6-4
Frank Ramsey F-G 6-3
Paul Arizin F-G 6-4
Ed Conlin F-G 6-5
Tom Gola G-F 6-6
Hal Greer G-F 6-2
Bill Smith G-F 6-5
Frank Selvy G-F 6-3
Oscar Robertson G-F 6-5
Jack Twyman F-G 6-6
George Lee F-G 6-4
Jackie Moreland F-G 6-7
Al Ferrari G-F 6-4
Si Green G-F 6-2
Cliff Hagan F-G 6-4
Fred LaCour G-F 6-5
Bob Sims G-F 6-5
Andy Johnson F-G 6-5
Jack Turner G-F 6-5
1961-62 Season, 20 active, avg = 6-4.45"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 90) avg = 6-3.76"
(Shooting guards of that season average over half an inch taller than shooting guards of 1989-present)

Pure Forwards (Let's call them the Small Forwards):
Gene Guarilia F 6-5
Jim Loscutoff F 6-5
Tom Sanders F 6-6
Ted Luckenbill F 6-6
Tom Meschery F 6-6
Frank Radovich F 6-8
Dave Gambee F 6-6
Joe Roberts F 6-6
Chuck Osborne F 6-6
Lee Shaffer F 6-7
Dave Budd F 6-6
Ed Burton F 6-6
Doug Kistler F 6-9
Elgin Baylor F 6-5
Tom Hawkins F 6-5
Bob Boozer F 6-8
Joe Buckhalter F 6-7
Bob Wiesenhahn F 6-4
Bailey Howell F 6-7
Shellie McMillon F 6-5
S. Arceneaux F 6-4
Horace Walker F 6-3
Barney Cable F 6-7
Ron Horn F 6-7
George Bon S. F 6-8
1961-62 Season, 25 active, avg = 6-6.08"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 91) avg = 6-6.40"
(The average small forward height of that season is only 1/3rd of an inch less than the average small forwards drafted between 1989-present)

Forward/Centers (Let's call them the Power Forwards):
Tom Heinsohn F-C 6-7
Joe Ruklick F-C 6-9
Joe Graboski F-C 6-7
Red Kerr C-F 6-9
Dolph Schayes F-C 6-7
C. Buckner F-C 6-9
Johnny Green F-C 6-5
Phil Jordon C-F 6-10
Willie Naulls F-C 6-6
Howie Jolliff F-C 6-7
Jim Krebs C-F 6-8
Rudy LaRusso F-C 6-7
Wayne Embry C-F 6-8
Hub Reed C-F 6-9
Bob Ferry C-F 6-8
Ray Scott F-C 6-9
Larry Foust C-F 6-9
Clyde Lovellette C-F 6-9
Bob Pettit F-C 6-9
W. Sauldsberry F-C 6-7
Archie Dees F-C 6-8
Joe Graboski F-C 6-7
Dave Piontek F-C 6-6
Charlie Tyra C-F 6-8
1961-62 Season, 24 active, avg = 6-7.83"
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 127) avg = 6-7.95"
(The power forwards average height that season is negligible in comparison with all modern power forwards from 1989-present... less than 1/8th of an inch)

Players strictly listed as Centers:
Bill Russell C 6-9 (1/2)
Wilt Chamberlain C 7-1 (1/16)
Swede Halbrook C 7-3
Darrall Imhoff C 6-10
Ray Felix C 6-11
Wayne Yates C 6-8
Bevo Nordmann C 6-10
Walter Dukes C 7-0
Walt Bellamy C 6-11
1961-1962 Season, 9 active, avg = 6-11.06" (6-10.81" excluding Wilt)
1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 67) avg = 6-10.44"
(Centers of that season averaged over 1/4 of an inch taller than modern centers, and that is if we exclude Wilt - the difference is more than 1/2 an inch if we included him)

Players get divided this way because in 61-62 there were only 3 recognized positions. G, F, C - and guys that would swing between basically had identical team roles to "SG, PF". www.basketball-reference.com has done an excellent job at indicating the players that were pulling double-duties between 2 positions.

Where's the "short league" evidence!? That looks like a tall year in the G, SG, and Center spots... Tell me Millwad, has your brain ever thought "hey... maybe I should look this shit up first..."? Or are you just a blind sheep that likes to ejaculate hear-say slander and myth about Wilt's era. :hammerhead:


P.S. about the "skillsets"... :roll: GTFO kid, what the hell do you know about skillsets from that time. Name 5 guys that came off the bench from 1961-62 season, then explain to me from your expert scouting perspective, some of the strengths and weaknesses in their game...

:confusedshrug: Help us out bro your the expert
Wow! That's some first post :cheers: and Welcome.

[Deuce Bigalow]

First of all, the idiotic OP claimed that Wilt faced two players who were 7-0 in his CAREER. I just listed 14 seven-footers that played in the Chamberlain-era, and another 13 who would be listed at 7-0 in TODAY's game...or TWENTY-SEVEN of them.

Secondly, in Wilt's "scoring" prime, he not only was scoring 50-60-70 points against 7-0 Reggie Harding, 7-3 Swede Halbrook, 7-0 Walter Dukes, and 6-11 Ray Felix...he had SEASONS, covering 9+ games in a season, of 40.1 ppg against Reed; 43.7 ppg and get this, 52.7 ppg against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy; 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg against 6-10 HOFer Bill Russell (who was a WORLD-CLASS high-jumper with a 7-4 wingspan); as well as a string of 11 straight games against 6-11 Nate Thurmond, in which he averaged 30 ppg (including games of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and even 45 points.) BTW, find me a game in which Kareem scored 38 points against a starting Nate Thurmond, much less 45 points...and Kareem faced him in some 50 H2H games. And even as late as Wilt's 71-72 season, he was scoring 29 ppg in 5 H2H games against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier.

And that does not include his absolute DOMINATION in terms of rebounding. You would be hard-pressed to find very many single games in Chamberlain's entire career, in which he was outrebounded. Russell, who was the game' second greatest rebounder of all-time, managed to outrebound Chamberlain in 42 H2H games, most of them barely. BUT, Wilt outrebounded Russell in 92, and in many he just murdered Russell. And Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and outrebounded him by margins of 28.5 to 26.7 rpg, 23.5 rpg to 19.5 rpg, and a 36 year old Chamberlain had a 23.6 to 17.2 rpg edge in Wilt's LAST playoff run. Even in the first one, which was their closest series. Wilt outrebounded Thurmond in 5 of those 6 games.

And how about FG%'s? In the VAST majority of H2H games against virtually any of the MANY HOFers Chamberlain faced, he outshot them, including Kareem, even at way past his peak. He outshot a prime Thurmond in those three straight playoff series by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and a staggering .560 to .343 margin in the '67 Finals. Kareem faced an older Thurmond in three straight playoff series, and shot .486, .428, and an eye-popping .405 from the floor against him.

And once again, the uneducated posters, like yourself, just look at Wilt's 50 ppg season, in a league of nine teams. Of course, Wilt faced Russell in 10 games (and Boston in 12), and averaged 39.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 62.) He faced Bellamy in 10 games, and all he could do was score 52.7 ppg against him (with a high game of 73.) He faced the 6-11 Ray Felix in eight games, and averaged 51.5 ppg in those games, including three of 60+, and a high game of 78. He was pouring in games of 50+ against 7-3 Swede Halbrook and 7-0 Walter Dukes. He had 100 points in a game against 6-10 Darrell Imhoff (granted Imhoff was one of three centers who tried to guard Wilt in that game.) He also battled the 6-9, 240 lb. Clyde Lovellette, who averaged 20.8 ppg that season, three times (Lovellete was injured for 1/2 the season), and Wilt had games of 39, 39, and 53 against him. And multiple all-star 6-9 Red Kerr was routinely surrendering 50+ point games to Chamberlain.

But, here again, a Chamberlain in his 64-65 season, averaged 40.1 ppg against Reed. In his 65-66 season, he averaged 33.0 ppg against Bellamy; 28.9 against Thurmond; 28.3 against Russell (and 31 rpg as well), and then in the playoffs, he averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against Russell. In fact, his 65-66 season was probably the most dominant season ever against an entire league. He was CRUSHING Thurmond, Bellamy, and Russell in those games, as well as pounding the rest of the league. He led the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg; in rebounding, at 24.6 rpg; and set a then-record FG% mark of .540; oh and he also averaged 5.2 apg.

A 66-67 Chamberlain averaged 24.1 ppg, on .683 shooting, with 24.2 rpg, and 7.8 apg, And he was reducing the best centers to under 40% shooting in the known H2H matchups (in the playoffs,he held Dierking to .427, Russell to .358, and Thurmond to .343 shooting...all while shooting .579 himself in those games.)

A 67-68 Chamberlain had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points. In one of those 53 point games, he added 32 rebounds and 14 assists (and 7 blocks.) In that 68 point game, he grabbed 37 rebounds.

A 68-69 Wilt, in his 10th season, went on a 17 game tear in which he shelled every center in the league. He had games of 23 against Thurmond, 31 against Reed, and 35 against Russell...as well as 60 against Dierking and 66 against 6-10 Jim Fox.

A 69-70 Wilt, in his 11th season, was asked to step up offensively, and he responded by LEADING the league in scoring in his first nine games, at 32.2 ppg (and on about 60% shooting.) In those nine games he put up games of 33 (on 13-13 shooting), 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against star center Bob Rule), and 43 points. He also pounded Kareem in one game, with a 25-25 game on 9-14 shooting. He blew out his knee in that ninth game, or he might have went on to win his eighth scoring title...at age 33.

Even in his LAST season, at age 36, he went H2H with Kareem in six regular season games, and outshot Kareem in those six games by a staggering .737 to .450 margin (which even included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting Kareem, 10-14 to 10-27.) Then, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, all he did was average 22.5 rpg...which was the last time a player ever averaged as much as 17.3 ppg in the post-season.

Once again...Wilt faced players like Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore...ALL in the HOF.

So, the fact was, no matter who Chamberlain faced, whether it be other seven-footers, of which there were quite a few in smaller leagues (from 8 to 17 team leagues) or the many HOFers, he was generally outplaying them all. Even into his LAST season. And all of that certainly blows up this theory that Wilt only feasted on helpless 6-6 centers in his career (which was the real intention of the OP BTW.)
http://i41.tinypic.com/1znn70p.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

CavaliersFTW just shut this thread down.

On his first post too. Props :cheers:

[PTB Fan]

Thanks for the kind words.

I got asked if I'd like to write for ballislife.com, which might still happen. I've also written for FadeAway (which was the name of MVP Magazine before they changed their title).

http://www.swishbasketball.net/ekmps/shops/swishbasketball/images/fadeaway-magazine-issue-2-62-pages-12844-p.jpg

http://urban-nerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/fadeaway-magazine-issue-3-jan-2010-15603-p.jpg

Nice. :applause:

[PTB Fan]

But you can tell by his stuff here! He will definitely get more.... That's for sure.

Agreed.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/wilt-chamberlain/wilt-chamberlain-warriors.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/wilt-chamberlain/wilt-chamberlain-warriors.jpg

:facepalm

Wilt does a layup over a Dwight Howard sized center while being body checked on a double-team by #12 - a guard/forward swingman (IE - a SG) that's actually a taller SG than Dwayne Wade.... So uhhh.... Were you surprised that a center with more length than Yao Ming and as much agility as a small forward had this ability to bull his way in and leap above them for an easy layup? :confusedshrug: Are you braindead kid?



Here... I can play this same trolling game, this time with someone you recognize:
http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef013486a12220970c-320wi
http://www.eba-stats.com/images/legends/chamberlain_jabbar.JPG
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqwgl5r2af1qz7ni3o1_400.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/WILT-CHAMBERLAIN-KAREEM-ABDUL-JABBAR-8-X-10-PHOTO-/12/!BqheFkgBWk~$(KGrHqQH-C4EuZWTkim+BLv1FJCNgg~~_35.JPG
Wilt made anyone look meak and small, no matter how big they actually were or how talented... doesn't matter who they are or what position they played or what type of talent they were. Being a GOAT candidate means your pretty damn superior to everyone from any given time. Surprised? Get over it.


Here's another round of your little game:
http://www.iwanttobeanowner.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-dan-issel2.jpg
Kareem again... except wait, has he now taken on the role of Wilt?, He looked so small just a few images ago!? Now he's lookin like the mighty unstoppable beast who prob also doesn't deserve accolade for his shit right? - I mean look at how meak the dude is he's skying over. Same type of image to form a the same stupid conclusion.
http://brickhousetalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/yao-dunk-214x300.jpg
And here the mighty Yao toys with some midget that offers proof of how weak and small Yao's era was, right? Yao's got roughly Identical standing reach as Wilt, identical weight - yet, even less wingspan, and far less strength and athleticism. Yet, what's the difference between cherry picking images of him vs images of Chamberlain? You gonna make a thread about that big bully Yao too now? :cry:

[jlauber]

I have said it many times, but Kareem is one of the "bridges" that spanned the end of Wilt's NBA career, to the middle of Hakeem's. In fact, his career nearly spanned FOUR decades (1969-thru 1989.)

Once again, Kareem's two greatest statistical seasons came in his second and third seasons. In his 70-71 season, at age 23 (actually 24), he averaged 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, on .577 shooting (and BTW, his .128 differential over the league average was the highest of his career), and along the way he not only won the MVP, but the FMVP. In his 71-72 season, at age 24 (25), he averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shot .574.

By contrast, Chamberlain had arguably the WORST season of his career in 70-71. He "only" averaged 20.7 ppg, 18.2 rpg (which was his career LOW), and on .545 shooting (which was a mediocre season for Wilt.) Then, in the post-season, he "only" averaged 18.3 ppg, 20.2 rpg (a career LOW in the post-season), on a very un-Wilt-like .455 shooting.) Of course, he was 34 years old, and only a year removed from major knee surgery.

So what you ask? This was a Kareem at his absolute finest, and a Chamberlain at arguably his WORST. BUT, the two went H2H in 10 games that season (five in the regular season, and five more in the playoffs.) In their regular season H2H's, Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 27.8 ppg to 23.2 ppg; while Chamberlain outrebounded Kareem, per game, 15.0 rpg to 13.2 rpg; and Wilt outshot Kareem in those five games, .483 to .438 (yes, he held Kareem to .438 shooting.)

In the 70-71 playoffs, Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 25.0 ppg to 22.0 ppg; while Chamberlain outrebounded Kareem, per game, 18.8 rpg to 17.2 rpg; and Wilt outshot Kareem in that series, .489 to .481.

Overall, in those ten games, Kareem held a 26.4 ppg to 22.5 ppg edge; while Chamberlain outrebounded Kareem, per game, 16.9 rpg to 15.2 rpg; and Wilt outshot Kareem in those ten games by a .486 to .457 (yes, .457 in ten straight games.) BTW, in their last meeting in the playoffs, in the series clincher, Chamberlain outscored Kareem, 23-20; and outshot Kareem, 10-21 to 7-23. AND, late in that game, when Wilt left the game, he received a standing ovation...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.

There you have it...in those ten H2H games, a way-past-his-prime Chamberlain, at age 34, in arguably his WORST season, battled a statistically prime Kareem, in perhaps his finest season (if you include both the regular season and the post-season) to a statistical DRAW.

Now, much has been made about Kareem's scoring margins in both the regular season, and the post-season, the very next season. Kareem averaged 40.2 ppg on an even .500 shooting in the 71-72 regular season against Wilt. However, the bulk of those numbers came in two games, in which Kareem scored 90 points, on .528 shooting, in games in which Wilt's Lakers won by margins of 13 and 16 points (and they were never challenged in that second game.) Oh, and Wilt outrebounded Kareem in those two games by a 50-26 margin.

However, in the playoffs, while Kareem once again enjoyed a solid scoring edge of 202-67 in their six H2H games (33.7 ppg to 11.2 ppg), Chamberlain outrebounded Kareem by a 18.8 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin. Kareem also slightly outshot Wilt, (.457 to .452), BUT, Wilt missed a total of 20 shots, while Kareem missed 107. Furthermore, in the last four pivotal games of that series, Wilt held Kareem to an eye-popping .414 shooting FG%. AND, in the clinching game six win, Chamberlain took over the game in the 4th quarter, in leading LA back from a 10 point deficit to a 104-100 win. Overall, Kareem outscored Wilt in that game, 37-20, but Wilt outshot Kareem 8-12 to 16-37 (including 2-8 in the final quarter.) Chamberlain also swatted a ton of skyhooks in that series, with a known 15 blocks against Kareem in just three games, and probably over 20 in the entire series.

Those that actually watched the '71-72 WCF's almost unanimously proclaimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series, including the Milwaukee coach and the Milwaukee press. Time Magazine hailed Wilt's performance as "decisively outplaying Kareem."

Then, the two went H2H in six more regular season games in Wilt's last season (72-73.) Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 29.0 to 11.0 ppg, BUT, Chamberlain outshot Kareem by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. Included in those six games, was one game in which Wilt outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27.

Of course, the two met one time, in Kareem's rookie season, and before Wilt shredded his knee that year. In that one game, Chamberlain outscored Kareem, 25-23; he outrebounded Kareem, 25-20; he outassisted Kareem, 5-2; he outblocked Kareem, 3-2; and he outshot Kareem, 9-14 to 9-21.

What was really fascinating, though, was that the two went H2H in 28 games, and Wilt held Kareem to .464 shooting (while shooting .530 himself.) Kareem shot 50%, or better, in ten of those games, and 60% in exactly one. He also shot less than .399 in SEVEN of those games. In their two "clinchers" in their H2H playoff series, Wilt held Kareem to .383 shooting (while shooting .545 himself.) So, Kareem basically shot over 50% in about one-third of their encounters, and shot under .399 in more than he did over 50%.


Now, move to the 84-85 and 85-86 seasons. A 37-38 old Kareem (actually, a 38-39 Kareem), who could barely get high enough to get 6 rpg, played a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem in ten straight games. How about this... 31.8 ppg on an eye-popping .630 FG% (once again...their first ten H2H games.) Included in those games, were games of 40 (on 16-29 shooting), 42 (on 16-24 shooting), and 46 (on 21-30 shooting....and in only 37 minutes.) Furthermore, Hakeem was guarding Kareem in all ten of those games.

Granted, in the 85-86 playoffs, Hakeem outscored Kareem, per game, 31-27 ppg, and outrebounded him, 11-7 rpg, while outshooting Kareem, .520 to .496. BUT, it was Sampson who guarded Kareem (with Hakeem doubling quite often.)

Sampson was injured after, and once again, it was Hakeem against Kareem in their last 13 games, when Kareem was 39-41 years old (actually 42.)

Overall, the two went H2H in 23 games (not including the 85-86 playoffs.) Kareem, from ages 37 to 41 (actually 42) battled a Hakeem, from ages 22-26. Kareem led his Lakers to an 18-5 record in those 23 games.

And how about their scoring and FG%'s numbers overall? Hakeem averaged 22.3 ppg against Kareem in those 23 games, and on .512 shooting. Kareem averaged 22.6 ppg on, get this... .610 shooting in those 23 games.

Even factoring in the 85-86 playoffs, their overall record and numbers were as follows in all 28 games:

Kareem held a 19-9 W-L record.
Kareem averaged 23.4 ppg on .582 shooting
Hakeem averaged 23.9 ppg on .514


Now, how about these numbers...

In their 23 H2H games, in which Hakeem guarded Kareem:

Kareem shot 50% or better in 20 of them (and in the other three he shot a total 12-29 or .414.)

Kareem shot less than .399 in one of those 23 games (3-9)

Kareem shot over 60% in TWELVE of 23 games.

And Kareem shot over 70% in FIVE of them.


If you include the five playoff games, when Sampson was the one assigned to Kareem defensively:

Kareem shot over 50% in 23 of the 28 games.

Kareem shot over 60% in twelve total games, and over 70% in five of them.


Once again, keep in mind that Kareem was playing at ages 37-41 while Hakeem was aged 22-26.

BTW, Kareem had that 46 point game, on 21-30 shooting, in only 37 minutes against Hakeem, and within a few days of that game, he buried Patrick Ewing by a 40-9 margin (outshooting Patrick, 15-22 to 3-17.)


So, a way-past-his prime Kareem was able to dominate a younger Hakeem, and battle him to a draw in the last couple of seasons, as well as crushing a young Ewing.

Yet, a PRIME Kareem stuggled against a way-past-his-prime Wilt in 27 of their 28 H2H's (and Wilt easily outplayed Kareem in their one encounter before his knee injury.)

On top of that, Kareem faced 6-11 Nate Thurmond in some 50 H2H games, and seldom even scored 30 points on him (with a high game of only 34 points in those 50+ games.) And overall, there is a good chance that Kareem didn't even shoot .450 against Nate in those 50+ games. In three straight playoff series, a PRIME Kareem shot .486, .428, and even .405 against Thurmond (and Thurmond even outscored and outshot him in one of those playoff series, 25.0 and .437 to Kareem's 22.8 ppg on .405 shooting.)

Then, factor in that a PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain faced Nate in about a dozen games, and in a string of 11 straight games, Wilt averaged 30 ppg against him, and with games of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 points (outscoring Thurmond, 45-13.)

A PRIME "scoring" Wilt also had an entire season, covering nine H2H games, in which he averaged 40.1 ppg against HOFer Willis Reed, including games of 52 and 58. A PRIME "scoring" Wilt had an entire season, covering 10 H2H games, against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, in which he averaged a mind-numbing 52.7 ppg , and with three games of 60+ (including a high game of 73.) Then, in the following season, Wilt averaged 43.7 ppg against Bellamy. And a PRIME "scoring" Wilt had several 30+ ppg seasons against Russell, including two of 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg. Overall, Chamberlain had FIVE games of 50+ against Russell, with a high game of 62 points (on 27-45 shooting.)

And while an OLD Wilt held his own against a PRIME Kareem,we were never fortunate enough to have witnessed a PRIME Chamberlain against Kareem. A Wilt who was bigger, stronger, more athletic, and as skilled.


Using Kareem as a "bridge" and we can clearly see that the great centers of the 60's would have more than held their own against the great centers of the 80's and 90's (Ewing and Hakeem.) And given the fact that Hakeem battled Shaq to a draw in the '95 Finals, it is also pretty clear that the greats of the 60's would have been great in the 00's, as well.

[CavaliersFTW]

First of all, Brian, we know it's you.
I know you're butthurt and all but this is just pathetic..

And 2nd, you can get a hint of a players skillset and abilities through stats and I didn't write that I was some kind of expert but it's easy to tell if someone's mediocre or garbage and that was the only thing I did.

Do you need a 5 page analyze of players who played 60 games in their NBA career? A scrub is a scrub. Or players who never made any all-NBA team or weren't even close and who had short statistical peaks where they didn't excel in anything? A player like that is mediocre no matter what. Go find something controversial with my previous post, Brian..

Point out the scrubs: Do you even know who any of these guys are? :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4

[CavaliersFTW]

You're the bigger moron to believe it.

Eye witness accounts? SO you think 9/11 missiles hit the WTC because of "eye witness accounts" or bombs going off because of "eye witness accounts".

Take off the tin foil hat, it's cutting off your circulation.

Moron.

Let's see those calculations bruh!


Tex Winters >>>>>>> -23-

[CavaliersFTW]

If it's capable of being done, why hasn't anyone since done it? He did not hold NCAA records for high jump or triple jump? "He ran a 100-yard dash in 10.9 seconds and bettered his high school record by throwing a shotput 56-feet. He also won the high jump in the Big Eight Track and Field Championships for three years in a row and triple jumped more than 50-feet." Neither of those are NCAA champ level, nor olympic level for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, he's a phenomenal athlete. I can't stand retards who claim he can FT dunk from 3 steps. You'd think one person at the time would be like "hey, this guy did something I've never seen before, I should take a picture". I take all these Wilt claims with a grain of salt.

:roll:


1953
Philadelphia City-League Invitational
5'10" - 1st
(City League Champion)

1955
Philadelphia City-League Invitational
6'2" - 1st
(City-League Champion)

1956
(ineligible to place, freshman) KU Relays
46' 2.5" - Triple-Jump

1957
KU Relays
45' 9" - 3rd, Triple Jump
6'6" - 2nd (tie)

1957
Drake Relays Invitational
6'6.25" - 1st (tie)

1957
Big-Seven Championship Track Meet
(NCAA D1 Conference Champion)
6'5" - 1st

1958
Big-Eight Championship Track Meet (indoor)
(NCAA D1 Conference Champion)
6'6.75" - 1st (KU Indoor Record)

Olympic gold in 1956 was a 6'11.5" jump. Wilt was 4.75" away from this. He used the Western Roll technique but literally, he sucked ass at it, he couldn't keep his trail leg in check. Based on his athleticism Wilt was predicted by his coach to exceed 7 foot jumps if he mastered that technique. But he did not commit to Track, basketball came first and foremost at that point. Wilt did not even practice/participate in any Track-related activities for 1958 until the Track coach asked him if he could help out with the conference meet. He wins it with a PR and sets the KU record :facepalm. Wilt's PR of 6'6.75" is good enough to have placed 5th place in the 1956 Olympics. 28 countries sent High Jumpers to compete that year.

Don't pretend he's not elite in Track and Field. No NBA player today is capable of hanging with that class of High Jumpers. Wilt was a ****ing thoroughbred on the Track, he just happened to play that sport called basketball too.


And.... :wtf:
How do you "take a picture" of a free throw dunk (as if a picture is good enough evidence for you to believe he leapt from A to B anyways) :facepalm

And you take things with grain of Salt? More like a mine of Salt.

It's Tex Winters, basketball legend and 1956 Chairman of The NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committee.... You suggest that he lied to his entire committee of coaches that needed to take their time to collaborate and vote for official NCAA rule changes involving free-throw dunks? WHY? To **** with everybody!? Here we've got as important a basketball guy as anyone who says who/what/when/where and why and you say he's a retard and so is anyone who believes him :facepalm. Okay kid. Why did he lie to everyone then. Is he secretly some big prankster who's motive was to scare the ****ing shit out of the NCAA so that they would make useless rule changes too the official rule book?
This has the foundation of "conspiracy theory" written all over it. You don't think Wilt was capable of doing things that pretty much anyone that ever met him had no trouble believing at all. So, because you don't know anyone or know OF anyone like Wilt Chamberlain, you won't buy into the idea that he's one-of-a-kind and you assume he might as well be as real as Santa Clause.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Another Wilt jocker among us...

60's were a weak era, it's why George Mikan dominated in the 50s (5 championships, more than Mr. 1-11 Wilt)

Watching games from the 60's is pretty funny
:facepalm @ thinking that era is even close to the same

[CavaliersFTW]

Another Wilt jocker among us...

60's were a weak era, it's why George Mikan dominated in the 50s (5 championships, more than Mr. 1-11 Wilt)

Watching games from the 60's is pretty funny
:facepalm @ thinking that era is even close to the same

Again... Do you even know who any of these guys are? :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4

:hammerhead:

I suppose you think they don't look any good :roll:

[Psileas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4#t=2m25s

But...but West could not dribble with his left hand! The video is definitely fake...You only showed some fake NBA 2k12 footage!!1

[LBJMVP]

Again... Do you even know who any of these guys are? :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4

:hammerhead:

I suppose you think they don't look any good :roll:

bunch of athletic black guys dominating short white boys and everyone once in a while throw in a terrible balding tall guy.

whats your point?

besides if you played clips of todays games next to your clip it would like like the NBA vs Division 3 College.

[Pointguard]

http://www.eba-stats.com/images/legends/chamberlain_jabbar.JPG
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqwgl5r2af1qz7ni3o1_400.jpg

At first I didn't think much of these pictures but then your mind starts playing back to how Kareem used to sometimes shoot the skyhook downward in the 80's. We can tell by his stats that he was much more lively in leaving his feet in early 70's. That's when you realize how high Wilt was getting in these pics. And you can see Kareem is at full extension and with hops here.

[millwad]

Again... Do you even know who any of these guys are? :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4

:hammerhead:

I suppose you think they don't look any good :roll:

How cute of you to upload a video dedicated to me and how cute of you to put on some dramatic music while only showing highlights and why the shift in speed between slow and fast and then normal...:facepalm

And it's pretty sad because it's obvious that you've been around ISH before so why the need of multiple accounts, no one beside a butthurt poster write the way you do.. :facepalm

And 03:08 is a great example of a player having a sucky lefty..

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4#t=2m25s

But...but West could not dribble with his left hand! The video is definitely fake...You only showed some fake NBA 2k12 footage!!1

How'd you like West's chase-down blocks? :pimp:

Who here LOVES algebra?... well I don't either but I've got an interesting mystery I can take shed light on using simple algebra.

Jerry West's Wingspan

Jerry West has a 37.5" sleeve length.
Wilt Chamberlain has a 37.5" sleeve length.

Their actual tape measurement was likely this:
37.5" - 1" = 36.5"
(American sleeve-length = middle of the neck/spine to the break of the wrist +1")

Their arm-spans (minus their hands) would be this:
36.5 x 2 = 73"

Great, but we need hand size to add to this....

Wilt's hands in 1956 are measured to be 9.5" in length from the break of the wrist:
http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE051863/young-wilt-chamberlain-displays-hands

73" + 9.5"(x2) = 92" or exactly 7'8" Wingspan Calculated for Wilt Chamberlain
Double Checking my Math:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYEbga0XueA&t=6m7s




So then we must ask ourselves... how long are Jerry's hands? :confusedshrug: I don't know, never found any numbers but I've heard his hands described as cartoon hands (big) on numerous occasions though that could mean wide not necessarily long. So, very conservatively I'll guess between a very modest 7.5"-8.0" long.

Using the same formula as Chamberlain, and based on peoples descriptions of West also being gifted with large hands, that means at the very lowest estimates he likely had at least a 7'4-7'5" wingspan...

Anyone wanna critique those results or double-check that method? I think most of those superstars were good for a reason, West wasn't just some 6'2 guy, he was a physical specimen - his wingspan at his size actually put's guys like Rondo to shame.

[PTB Fan]

I have said it many times, but Kareem is one of the "bridges" that spanned the end of Wilt's NBA career, to the middle of Hakeem's. In fact, his career nearly spanned FOUR decades (1969-thru 1989.)

Once again, Kareem's two greatest statistical seasons came in his second and third seasons. In his 70-71 season, at age 23 (actually 24), he averaged 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, on .577 shooting (and BTW, his .128 differential over the league average was the highest of his career), and along the way he not only won the MVP, but the FMVP. In his 71-72 season, at age 24 (25), he averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shot .574.

By contrast, Chamberlain had arguably the WORST season of his career in 70-71. He "only" averaged 20.7 ppg, 18.2 rpg (which was his career LOW), and on .545 shooting (which was a mediocre season for Wilt.) Then, in the post-season, he "only" averaged 18.3 ppg, 20.2 rpg (a career LOW in the post-season), on a very un-Wilt-like .455 shooting.) Of course, he was 34 years old, and only a year removed from major knee surgery.

So what you ask? This was a Kareem at his absolute finest, and a Chamberlain at arguably his WORST.

A tall, skinny Kareem wasn't at his absolutely finest at all.

[CavaliersFTW]

bunch of athletic black guys dominating short white boys and everyone once in a while throw in a terrible balding tall guy.

whats your point?

besides if you played clips of todays games next to your clip it would like like the NBA vs Division 3 College.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2akdYIFJ2A
Joel, oft-cited as an analogue to 60's players is chucking airballs on a layup w/o anyone in his face or making contact. :facepalm Think he could play in the 1960's with all those bodies in the paint and all that contact that was still very much allowed?

:roll:

That's the point of the footage. Anyone with an unbias opinion and a set of eyes can see that at least half of those 60's guys would be ballin in today's league with a pair of Nike's and a pre-season to adjust to the rule tweaks. They can shoot. They can dribble. They can drive. That era was as athletically diverse as the range of players today's league. This goes the same in the other direction.

At least half of today's league could ball in that league as well (today's a massive league, 30 teams) but at least half, also would NOT have enough talent to ball in that league. Not IMHO. I'm sorry, but guys like Joel Anthony, Ryan Hollins?... pffft :lol ... they just couldn't, especially when you consider the equipment and rule tweaks etc. Sorry Big Joel, no orthopedics and big platform shoes for your diminutive 6'6 height at center, and nothing to save your fragile frankenstein legs. He'd be smoked on every fast break and stuffed on his awful shot attempts. Even the worst centers in that league could hit a hook. In our league the 30th pick is still round 1. In a 9 team league the 30th pick is literally the end of the line and he's prob going to sit on the bench and get cut until next years 1st and 2nd round picks anyways. :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

A tall, skinny Kareem wasn't at his absolutely finest at all.

:facepalm Starts as ROY, then settles into his modest early years as a 2 time scoring champ 3-time MVP (in 5 years), 2-time champion, finals MVP, the dominant scorer of his team every year, leagues leading shot-blocker, and MVP of one of the top 5 teams in NBA history.... + First team and all defensive team picks during those years....

What you been smokin bro? That skinny Kareem was > athletic and dominant than Laker Kareem

[CavaliersFTW]

How cute of you to upload a video dedicated to me and how cute of you to put on some dramatic music while only showing highlights and why the shift in speed between slow and fast and then normal...:facepalm

And it's pretty sad because it's obvious that you've been around ISH before so why the need of multiple accounts, no one beside a butthurt poster write the way you do.. :facepalm

And 03:08 is a great example of a player having a sucky lefty..

I've been a reader of these boards for about a year - don't have any other accounts.

And uhhhh... you've never seen a mix-tape!? They all add music... they all use slow motion shit all the time :facepalm and I dropped it from NTSC to PAL for a deliberately choppy frame rate, - which is another simple trick many mix-tapes use. I also color-corrected it to get rid of the yellowed drab look. I guess I shouldn't be tampering with mix tape footage to give it dramatic appeal right? Mix tapes are all about being ordinary :roll:

Would you have rather I kept that leave it to beaver style music, the ugly blurry looking corroded film, and announcers that quipped "pretty!" after a slam that would've give modern announcers a ****ing heart-attack? Such makes for fair demonstrations of their abilities right?... Someone finally makes a standard looking half-ass Youtube mix using 60's footage and you complain. :cry:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4
Is it because these guys actually look talented and you don't want to admit it?

[Kblaze8855]

You'd think one person at the time would be like "hey, this guy did something I've never seen before, I should take a picture".

You wouldnt think it if you took a moment to consider the situation. This wasnt 2010. It was 1955 or so(HS wilt). Playing high school ball. The NBA finals were not even always on tv back then. Shit in the 80s the NBA finals were on tape delay. This is 60 years ago. Everyone didnt have camera phones. Do you know how big a deal it was when quick use disposable cameras came around? When I was a kid they were new. And that was not the 50s.

People wouldnt be standing around a high school practice with Tex Winter with video cameras. They wouldnt usually even be at NBA games getting lots of footage in the mid 50s.

But you think its likely someone schedules a film crew or something to record Wilt doing a Ft line dunk...in high school?

They wouldnt send a film crew to see George Mikan more often than not. But they are gonna film and preserve(for 60 years) footage of a HS kid doing dunks to confirm what several people say they saw? I dont think they would have much if any motivation.

[millwad]

I've been a reader of these boards for about a year - don't have any other accounts.

And uhhhh... you've never seen a mix-tape!? They all add music... they all use slow motion shit all the time :facepalm and I dropped it from NTSC to PAL for a deliberately choppy frame rate, - which is another simple trick many mix-tapes use. I also color-corrected it to get rid of the yellowed drab look. I guess I shouldn't be tampering with mix tape footage to give it dramatic appeal right? Mix tapes are all about being ordinary :roll:

Would you have rather I kept that leave it to beaver style music, the ugly blurry looking corroded film, and announcers that quipped "pretty!" after a slam that would've give modern announcers a ****ing heart-attack? Such makes for fair demonstrations of their abilities right?... Someone finally makes a standard looking half-ass Youtube mix using 60's footage and you complain. :cry:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmQMdiPw4
Is it because these guys actually look talented and you don't want to admit it?

I appreciate the fact that you made the video but I didn't like the part were you speed up some plays and slow mo'd other plays, it's just stupid and a try to mislead the viewers.

I don't put much value to highlight videos at all to be honest, and I have my reasons. I play basketball in the swedish basketball league and I've played games for the swedish youth national team and I'll tell you this, highlights are so misleading.

We were playing Bulgaria I think it was and youth players don't have much footage or info out there but our scouting went all wrong due highlight videos. One of their guys I guarded looked amazing in his highlight video but kid couldn't ball, he was a true showboater and he took stupid flashy shots all game long. I had him locked down for 9 points but the dude who who absolutely destroyed us (he was playing pro in Germany last I checked) had a random highlight video out there with some misses and some makes but nothing spectacular at all.

Every player can look spectacular in highlight videos, that's my point and it's true as well. Hell, I even saw a Chris Mihm highlight-video where he looked great. Mixtapes/highlights are crazy misleading and especially with all the nonsense slow mo and extra speed..

If you want to live in your imaginary world where you think that those oldschool ballers were just as skilled as modern era players, then go ahead. But there's an obvious reason why they shot with crappy FG% and there's a reason why guys who didn't jump when they were attempting JUMP shots could be all-stars. I even saw all-star footage of warm-ups were 5 straight guys struggled with a simple left-handed lay-up, either they missed it or shot it with the right or went under the basket for a right handed lay-up.

Get real, your quotes doesn't change the facts..

[CavaliersFTW]

I appreciate the fact that you made the video but I didn't like the part were you speed up some plays and slow mo'd other plays, it's just stupid and a try to mislead the viewers.

I don't put much value to highlight videos at all to be honest, and I have my reasons. I play basketball in the swedish basketball league and I've played games for the swedish youth national team and I'll tell you this, highlights are so misleading.

We were playing Bulgaria I think it was and youth players don't have much footage or info out there but our scouting went all wrong due highlight videos. One of their guys I guarded looked amazing in his highlight video but kid couldn't ball, he was a true showboater and he took stupid flashy shots all game long. I had him locked down for 9 points but the dude who who absolutely destroyed us (he was playing pro in Germany last I checked) had a random highlight video out there with some misses and some makes but nothing spectacular at all.

Every player can look spectacular in highlight videos, that's my point and it's true as well. Hell, I even saw a Chris Mihm highlight-video where he looked great. Mixtapes/highlights are crazy misleading and especially with all the nonsense slow mo and extra speed..

If you want to live in your imaginary world where you think that those oldschool ballers were just as skilled as modern era players, then go ahead. But there's an obvious reason why they shot with crappy FG% and there's a reason why guys who didn't jump when they were attempting JUMP shots could be all-stars. I even saw all-star footage of warm-ups were 5 straight guys struggled with a simple left-handed lay-up, either they missed it or shot it with the right or went under the basket for a right handed lay-up.

Get real, your quotes doesn't change the facts..

Perhaps your confusing "speed up" with the choppy PAL frame rate of 25fps vs typical NTSC 29-30fps... There's slow mo... than there's regular. And anyways doing everything I did for every reason I did it IS the point of any mixtape or highlight, it's emphasizing moves, setting the stage, showcasing talent. It's not a game film for players to study, its a mix tape for fans to enjoy. I can't help it if you don't like it's what every mix tape is all about :confusedshrug: .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvknOlKuBjw
Does that guy look spectacular? Does that look ANYTHING like say, Wilt Chamberlain's abilities in his high school footage? Sorry but even fancy editing can't make wine out of water, that dude ****ing sucks in comparison yet he's still prob gonna make some sort of post-highschool career.

And... fg%?

Defense. Very physical hands-on defense. The type that's not allowed today - and the change in defensive rules has indeed inflated player fg% now it's not a shift in talent, it's that guards are now allowed to charge a center and he's likely to get a "foul" if the center even breathes on him. If you made a drive on Wilt you were going back down on the floor. Watch the video again, look at the narrower lane its smaller real-estate thus jam packed with forwards or centers. If you couldn't shoot with range you were going to face the unbreakable wall of that tightly packed key. The best way to counter this in the coaches minds at that time was just run the fast break like mad. And they did. There's reasons for the stat changes sure, but blaming it on talent? Come on man. That league had plenty of talent to go around.

[millwad]

Perhaps your confusing "speed up" with the choppy PAL frame rate of 25fps vs typical NTSC 29-30fps... There's slow mo... than there's regular. And anyways doing everything I did for every reason I did it IS the point of any mixtape or highlight, it's emphasizing moves, setting the stage, showcasing talent. It's not a game film for players to study, its a mix tape for fans to enjoy. I can't help it if you don't like it's what every mix tape is all about :confusedshrug: .

There is no honesty in entertainment

I am not trying to diss you for the video you did, I actually liked the video and looked at it at least 3 times and it sure thing was better then the most highlights from that era on youtube.

What I didn't like was the fact that you tried to use it as proof for their skillset. I know as a fact that the games improved over time and if anyone watch a longer game tape they'll tell you like it is.

And I also know that mixtapes and highlights are crappy when talking about skillset, it's just misleading and that's why I never give a crap about how good anyone look in a mixtape. Just compare your mixtape to a longer game tape and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, thanks for the video and this is a stupid discussion anyway. Nothing anyone writes in this thread will change the others mind. It's always like this, Jlauber copies stats from google and acts like he's a historian with his biased standpoints and then we have fanboys who absolutely love his texts and then we have people like me who just dissmiss everything he writes due his crappy credibility no matter if it's true or not. It never leads no where and we are all obviously wasting our time.

It's a shame that Jlauber takes so much space in Wilt discussions, you've probably noticed how better posters guys like Psileas and some others are.

[CavaliersFTW]

I am not trying to diss you for the video you did, I actually liked the video and looked at it at least 3 times and it sure thing was better then the most highlights from that era on youtube.

What I didn't like was the fact that you tried to use it as proof for their skillset. I know as a fact that the games improved over time and if anyone watch a longer game tape they'll tell you like it is.

And I also know that mixtapes and highlights are crappy when talking about skillset, it's just misleading and that's why I never give a crap about how good anyone look in a mixtape. Just compare your mixtape to a longer game tape and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, thanks for the video and this is a stupid discussion anyway. Nothing anyone writes in this thread will change the others mind. It's always like this, Jlauber copies stats from google and acts like he's a historian with his biased standpoints and then we have fanboys who absolutely love his texts and then we have people like me who just dissmiss everything he writes due his crappy credibility no matter if it's true or not. It never leads no where and we are all obviously wasting our time.

It's a shame that Jlauber takes so much space in Wilt discussions, you've probably noticed how better posters guys like Psileas and some others are.

Glad that you liked the video - I hope it at least opens your mind even if it doesn't change it.

That era wasn't a bunch of small/short white guys nor are they unathletic or any of that.

Take #16, the white guy in the very beggining. One might think he's got a surprisingly smooth handle for that time. But bahhh it's still too easy to dismiss him as a "small" white-guy after that right? Except....

It's Cliff Hagen. He's only a guard. And he's every bit as tall in his barefeet and just as heavy as todays Tyreke Evans. Then there's Oscar, who is even bigger than Cliff who plays PG. In his barefeet Oscar stands just slightly taller than MJ or Kobe - and watch his intensity and his ability to drive pass or shoot - how could his size, intensity IQ and abilities not translate to a superstar in today's league?

Don't need to answer that, it's just food for thought.

[jlauber]

... Ming and Wallace are two of the best centers ever. Shaq said he considers Yao a top 5 center of all time. Wallace is arguably a top 5 defender and rebounder all time. Then a couple others I mentioned are HOFers. Reality is Wilt had nobody that could even try to body him up, Shaq did.

Sabonis, Wallace and Yao all had their success against Shaq in the paint at some point or another.

Please do some actual research on this and then get back to me. I could (and have) DESTROYED that assertion before, but now I want YOU to back up that statement. Chamberlain was SWARMED and BRUTALIZED in his career, and no other player in NBA history was more defended. I can back up my claim...let's see you back up your's.

[bwink23]

You wouldnt think it if you took a moment to consider the situation. This wasnt 2010. It was 1955 or so(HS wilt). Playing high school ball. The NBA finals were not even always on tv back then. Shit in the 80s the NBA finals were on tape delay. This is 60 years ago. Everyone didnt have camera phones. Do you know how big a deal it was when quick use disposable cameras came around? When I was a kid they were new. And that was not the 50s.

People wouldnt be standing around a high school practice with Tex Winter with video cameras. They wouldnt usually even be at NBA games getting lots of footage in the mid 50s.

But you think its likely someone schedules a film crew or something to record Wilt doing a Ft line dunk...in high school?

They wouldnt send a film crew to see George Mikan more often than not. But they are gonna film and preserve(for 60 years) footage of a HS kid doing dunks to confirm what several people say they saw? I dont think they would have much if any motivation.


Great points...Plus i would imagine the costs to get that type of equipment back then didn't justify the means....

[jlauber]

Tex Winter said that the League changed the rules so Counts had to actually shoot his freethrows instead of dunking them like he did in high school.

Of course, the REAL intention of the above comment was a slap in the direction of Chamberlain.

And, yet, we have a YouTube INTERVIEW in which the highly respected Tex Winter claims that he headed up a team to ban the dunking of FTAs because he WITNESSED a young Wilt, with a few steps behind the line, dunking a FT attempt.

But beyond that, these "anti-Chamberlain" posters always bring up the so-called "myths" about Wilt. That he killed a mountain lion with his bare hands (hell, we don't know for sure...how big was the mountain lion?) Or that he broke the toe of a player with a vicious dunk (BTW, WILT never claimed that feat, but instead, it was the ACTUAL player who said so.)

In my first couple of years on this forum, these "Chamberlain-haters" would constantly challenge my claims. Where was the footage, they asked, of Wilt's supposed "leaping ability?" Or his supposed "shooting range?" Or that he was actually facing taller players? Or that he was "doubled?"

Well, in the last few months, someone using the name of Dantheman, has posted a TON of VIDEO footage on YouTube...and lo-and-behold, we now SEE Chamberlain blocking a shot, with no time to react, and going straight up, in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard. Or multiple single game highlights of Chamberlain routinely hitting a variety of shots from 15+ feet. Or a SWARMED Chamberlain rising above 6-10+ centers and hitting bank shots from 10-15 ft.

And, once again, Sonny Hill, a highly respected icon in Philadelphia sports history, claiming that he witnessed Wilt touching the top of the backboard. (BTW, long time Sixer trainer, Al Domenico also claimed that.) Of course, it was well known during the Chamberlain era that he did, in fact, accomplish that very feat. Or Philly sportswriter George Kiseda measuring a verical leap, by Chamberlain, in a hospital, of 42". Of course, we also know that Wilt's college coach rolled out a 12 ft rim, and there have been those that claim that Chamberlain was dunking on it.

There were those that challenged my take that Wilt was ROUTINELY blocking a PRIME and ATHLETIC Kareem's "unblockable" sky hook. BUT, we not only have game logs in Chamberlain was blocking 4-5 or more of Kareem's shots (surely many of them were skyhooks), we also have VIDEO footage of Wilt blocking not one, but TWO, skyhooks within a matter seconds.


Of course, there are MANY claims of Wilt's staggering strength. However, there are also some interesting articles, as well. SI ran a story in 1964, in which Chamberlain was already credited with a 425 bench. That was long before Wilt would reach his peak. We also have an interview by Robert Cherry, with a known weight-lifter, who was 6-5 and 250 lbs, and who was easily capable of benching over 500 lbs, claiming that Wilt was the strongest man he ever met. Or an EYE-WITNESS interview, in which he claimed that he witnessed Chamberlain benching 465 lbs...at age 59! And, of course, Wilt then acknowledged that he could have done more (as well as claiming he HAD done more in his lifetime.)

Just GOOGLE Wilt's vertical or bench. The internet is PLASTERED with stories with incredible claims.

BUT, it goes beyond that. Wilt played with and against dozens of coachs in his lifetime. He played with and against hundreds, if not thousands, of players in his career. He was closely followed by many members of the media, and was SEEN by thousands, of not millions, of fans. And here we have all of these "mythical" feats, and yet, where are those that would DISPUTE them???? Surely Wilt must have tried to touch the top of the backboard in practice with surrounding teammates on more than one occasion, and yet, not one LEGITIMATE eye-witness has ever stepped forth to dispute that he indeed accomplished it. And surely Wilt worked out with many partners and in view of many other's in his lifetime, and yet, not one LEGITIMATE first-hand account disputing those that claimed that Wilt had a 500+ bench press???

If anything, we now KNOW that those many eye-popping physical feats were NOT "myths", but were actual FACTS.

[bwink23]

Jlauber, why you trying to teach common sense to a bunch of degenerates who have Lin avatars like some hype-driven loons?? Keep doing what you do man, cuz you do it well....Most of those who don't agree with you can't discredit your posts. Like you said, they will sight "mountain lion", post some childish gif, then go *********e in the shower.

[jlauber]

Jlauber, why you trying to teach common sense to a bunch of degenerates who have Lin avatars like some hype-driven loons?? Keep doing what you do man, cuz you do it well....Most of those who don't agree with you can't discredit your posts. Like you said, they will sight "mountain lion", post some childish gif, then go *********e in the shower.

The Wilt "Double Standard" on this forum, at least in several cases, is just ridiculous.

I have read so many posts that Wilt was a "stats-padding" "loser" who "choked" in his biggest games. And, yet, I have proven that he was perhaps the MOST CLUTCH "big game" player of all-time (with only Jordan having a case over him.) Wilt not only put up HUGE games in his "must-win" and "series clinching" post-season games, he routinely CRUSHED his opposing center in them, as well.

And it fascinates me that Kareem, who was arguably a GOAT candidate, is held in some kind of higher esteem, and yet, when the two played in the league together for four seasons, an OLD Wilt was a better "winner" than a PRIME Kareem. Or that an OLD Wilt could battle a PRIME Kareem to a statistical draw in one H2H season, and by ALL accounts, outplay a Kareem in his greatest statistical season, in another. Even a Chamberlain in his LAST season battled a PRIME Kareem to a relative draw in their H2H's. And virtually no one brings up this interesting fact...in Kareem's rookie season, in a year in which he averaged 28.8 ppg on .518 shooting, Wilt started out that same season leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg on .600 shooting, in his first nine games, which included a H2H in which Chamberlain just pounded Kareem. Granted, that was a rookie Kareem, and he would go on to become a much greater player, but that was also NOT a PRIME Chamberlain, either. Wilt was in his 11th season at the time.

Furthermore, Kareem's first ten years, in his absolute prime, were much more of a "loser", and a "choker" than Wilt's first ten seasons, and in his prime. And, as well now all know, a PRIME Chamberlain dominated his peers FAR more than a PRIME Kareem did his, including the fact that they both faced some of the same centers.

Nor do the "anti-Wilt" clan ever credit Chamberlain with taking PUTRID rosters, who played even WORSE in the post-season, to within an eye-lash of beating Russell's HOF-laden Celtic teams, in the apex of their dynasty, TWICE. Or that a PRIME Chamberlain led an equally talented supporting cast to a rout of the Celtic Dynasty, in a series in which Wilt just SHELLED Russell.

Or that Wilt led 12 teams to the Conference Finals in his 14 seasons. Or that he led his team's to six division titles, and six conference finals. Or that Chamberlain went to SIX Finals. Or that Wilt played on teams with the best record in the league (in talent-rich NBA seasons) FOUR times. Or that he led his team to 60+ wins on FOUR occasions (which was one more time than even Russell did.) Or that Chamberlain anchored TWO teams that went 68-13 and 69-13, and won dominating world titles.

He was the game's greatest scorer, rebounder, and arguably (considering the league's he played in) the most efficient shooter of all time. And, at his peak he was perhaps on the level of even the great Russell in terms of defensive impact. Or that a PRIME Wilt LED the NBA in assists, and came in third in another season. Or that Chamberlain was perhaps the greatest shot-blocker of all-time.

And Wilt not only was the best in all of the above, he was often LIGHT YEARS ahead of his peers in MANY of them.

And, of course, he wasn't doing it against non-athletic 6-6 white centers, but in actuality, was dominating 6-11+ athletic centers in his entire career, including several 7-0 footers.

[PTB Fan]

:facepalm Starts as ROY, then settles into his modest early years as a 2 time scoring champ 3-time MVP (in 5 years), 2-time champion, finals MVP, the dominant scorer of his team every year, leagues leading shot-blocker, and MVP of one of the top 5 teams in NBA history.... + First team and all defensive team picks during those years....

What you been smokin bro? That skinny Kareem was > athletic and dominant than Laker Kareem

:no:

Laker Kareem>Milwaukee Kareem.

Not even close. Bucks version of Kareem got pushed out of his comfortable spots for the sky hook. And LA Kareem killed it in that regard.He was bulked up, by then he could shot the sky hook with the left hand and from bigger distance.

Defensively he was dominant, better all-around player and was a far better passer out of the post. He averaged 6.3 assists at one point of his season. He peaked in his days as a Laker overall.

[Odinn]

:no:

Laker Kareem>Milwaukee Kareem.

:cheers: 1976-77 season speaks for itself already.

[jlauber]

:no:

Laker Kareem>Milwaukee Kareem.

Not even close. Bucks version of Kareem got pushed out of his comfortable spots for the sky hook. And LA Kareem killed it in that regard.He was bulked up, by then he could shot the sky hook with the left hand and from bigger distance.

Defensively he was dominant, better all-around player and was a far better passer out of the post. He averaged 6.3 assists at one point of his season. He peaked in his days as a Laker overall.

Not even close???

You are absolutely out of your mind. In fact, how about this? In Kareem's 71-72 season, he played 44.2 mpg, averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, shot .574, and averaged 4.6 apg. And he accomplished all of that on a team that romped to a 63-19 record, and had a whopping +11.1 ppg differential.

Then, playing with an average supporting cast, at best, in his 75-76 Laker season, he played 41.2 mpg, averaged 27.7 ppg, which was among his worst seasons in the 70's, and shot .529 from the floor, which was his third WORST season of that decade. Granted, he led the NBA in rebounding, at 16.9 rpg, but before anyone gets too excited about that, it was his ONLY rebounding title, and he barely edged 6-9 Dave Cowens, who was at 16.0 rpg. The other leaders were 6-7 Wes Unseld, 6-7 Paul Silas, and 6-10 Sam Lacey. Gone were the dominant rebounders like Wilt and Thurmond. And of course, the biggest question simply has to be...in a season in which his team needed him to be a dominant scorer, he basically couldn't do it. And it wasn't like no one was scoring, either. McAdoo ran away with the scoing title, at 31.1 ppg, and the season before, he romped over Kareem, with a 34.5 ppg average (in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg.)

And I will stand by my assertion that Kareem's all-around greatest season came in his SECOND season. He easily led the league in scoring at 31.7 ppg, and in only 40.1 mpg, while grabbing 16.0 rpg, and shooting .577 (which was his greatest differential against the league-average... .128 points...of his entire career.) He won the MVP, and then went on to win the FMVP, and on a team that went 66-16. BTW, the Bucks DEFENSE, in the Kareem's years, were simply among the greatest defensive team's EVER. They were holding opponents to .420, .422, and .424 seasons. Kareem was a MAJOR factor in that.

IMHO, while Kareem was a little bigger, and a little stronger by the mid-70's, he had lost some motivation, and was not as dominant as he could have been. Even more damaging, was the fact the NBA from the time Chamberlain retired in '73, until the emergence of Bird and Magic in the '80 season, was probably the weakest in it's history. The '75 Warriors won a title, with Rick Barry and rookie Keith (Jamaal) Wilkes, and a cast of no-names, who went 48-34. In the '77 season, the 49-33 Trailblazers not only won the title, they SWEPT Kareem's 53-29 Lakers in the process. And Kareem's 77-78 Lakers were routed by a 47-35 Sonics team, with only one borderline HOF player (Dennis Johnson), and that team lost to a 44-38 Bullets team in the Finals. BTW, guess who was playing alongside Kareem in that '78 season? A more experienced Wilkes, Norm Nixon, Lou Hudson, and an Adrian Dantley, who was averaging 26.5 ppg when LA acquired him. THEN, with that same basic roster, only with a year under their belts, they were again blown away, 4-1, by essentially the same Sonic's team, that went 52-30 en route to a title.

Granted, it was certainly not all of Kareem's fault. But, as gifted and dominant as he was, why couldn't he lead talented rosters to titles in years in which the champions were among the weakest ever?

[Helix]

:cheers: 1976-77 season speaks for itself already.


Really? What exactly does it speak for? Comparing his 71-72 season to 76-77, 34.8 ppg - 26.2 ppg, 16.6 rpg - 13.3 rpg, and 4.6 apg - 3.9 apg. Shooting percentages were pretty much the same. Looks to me like he was more dominant in 71-72 than in 76-77.

Kareem truly was a phenomenal player, but he was NEVER the dominating force that Wilt was. Not even close. Whether it was lack of motivation, or lack of stamina, or a combination of both, I don't know.

[jlauber]

Really? What exactly does it speak for? Comparing his 71-72 season to 76-77, 34.8 ppg - 26.2 ppg, 16.6 rpg - 13.3 rpg, and 4.6 apg - 3.9 apg. Shooting percentages were pretty much the same. Looks to me like he was more dominant in 71-72 than in 76-77.

Kareem truly was a phenomenal player, but he was NEVER the dominating force that Wilt was. Not even close. Whether it was lack of motivation, or lack of stamina, or a combination of both, I don't know.

:cheers:

I find it fascinating, but those that actually grew up in the Chamberlain-era, on this forum, at least, almost to a man, rank Wilt at, or near the very top all-time. Helix, JMT, La Fresco Baldi, and probably CavaliersFTW, all seem to at least consider Wilt as the most all-around dominant player to have ever played the game. I can't speak for the ages of Psileas, PHILA, and Pointguard, but even if they didin't actually grow up in the 60's, they have done enough research to back up their claims, as well.

Also interesting is the fact, that, while those that also were fortunate enough to have seen Kareem play, almost to a man here, seem to state the same thing...he was a truly great player who didn't play up to his potential. And the reality was, had Magic not arrived in 1980, Kareem woud probably have been considered the greatest "stats-padding" "choker" of all-time. Once again, I too agree that Kareem COULD have been perhaps the GOAT, but he never reached the dominance of a Chamberlain.

[jlauber]

As powerful as Shaq was, he didn't have the KNOWN range of a younger Chamberlain. Nor was he as fast, or as athletic, and perhaps, not even as strong (at least at their absolute peaks.)

We have enough footage of Chamberlain to KNOW that he was ROUTINELY hitting 10-15+ shots in the first half of his NBA career. We also now have enough footage to properly declare him as the highest leaping "great" of all-time. Recently Sports Science conducted a session with Dwight Howard, in which he edged Shaq's "supposed" record leap-touch of 12' 5", with a 12' 6" mark. But thanks to recently posted footage on YouTube, we now KNOW that Wilt not only bettered that mark, but he did so in the middle of game, with no time to react, and with a straight up leap, in which he is using his off-hand to extend with. Clearly, those that claimed that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard were right.

Then, in the comparisons with Kareem, Wilt had nearly the same range, was nearly as tall, had a longer wingspan, was a much better leaper, was way stronger, and overall, was even more skilled in ALL aspects of the game (shooting, passing, rebounding, shot-blocking, and defense.)

BTW, Psileas posted the recorded games in Wilt's last two seasons in the NBA, and the overall estimates were that a 35 and 36 year old Chamberlain was blocking 7-8 shots per game in '72, and 5-6 in '73. How about a PRIME Kareem in the very next season, 73-74, when the NBA first began officially recording them,...3.5 bpg. His high campaign was 4.1 bpg. Here again, an OLD Wilt, at over 300 lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee, was blocking between 6-8 shots per game. Hell, in his H2H's with just Kareem, he had MANY games of 4-5 blocks against Kareem (with a high of 6.) Harvey Pollack had Chamberlain with entire SEASONS of 10+ bpg, and now, given the fact that an OLD Wilt could average 7 bpg, in his LAST seasons...well, 10+ simply HAS to be correct. (BTW, Elmore Smith is credited with the "official" block record in a game, with 17, BUT, Chamberlain had a KNOWN nationally televised game, in which he RECORDED 23 blocks.)

Without question, Chamberlain was the game's greatest athlete. He was a champion HIGH-JUMPER (part-time) at KU. In addition, he participated in the LONG JUMP, the TRIPLE JUMP, was a member of KU's 4x100 yd relay team, and even participated in the shot put.

Virtually everyone who played in the Wilt era would acknowledge that he was the strongest man at the time, and many would claim that he was the strongest ever. The internet is plastered with accounts of 500+ bench presses, too. But even beyond that, there are a TON of first hand accounts of incredible physical feats. How come ONLY Wilt?

He was not only a sprinter at KU, he ran marathons in High School, and was even running marathons in his early 60's.

Probably the game's greatest athlete, and probably the most dominant player of all-time.

[Odinn]

Really? What exactly does it speak for? Comparing his 71-72 season to 76-77, 34.8 ppg - 26.2 ppg, 16.6 rpg - 13.3 rpg, and 4.6 apg - 3.9 apg. Shooting percentages were pretty much the same. Looks to me like he was more dominant in 71-72 than in 76-77.

Kareem truly was a phenomenal player, but he was NEVER the dominating force that Wilt was. Not even close. Whether it was lack of motivation, or lack of stamina, or a combination of both, I don't know.
Kareem had arguably his best playoff run in 1977. That run was probably the goat non-winning performance. Why did you leave the plyaoffs #s?

28.7 - 34.6
18.2 - 17.7
5.1 - 4.1
.437 - .607

Talking about just based on regular season numbers saying like;
2000 Duncan was almost as dominant as 2003 Duncan (which was not)
1994 Shaq was almost as dominant as 2000 Shaq (which was not, again)
1980 Moses was more dominant player than 1983 Moses (which was not, again)
1987 or 1988 Jordan was more dominant player than 1990 Jordan (which is absouletly wrong)

[CavaliersFTW]

Kareem had arguably his best playoff run in 1977. That run was probably the goat non-winning performance. Why did you leave the plyaoffs #s?

28.7 - 34.6
18.2 - 17.7
5.1 - 4.1
.437 - .607

Talking about just based on regular season numbers saying like;
2000 Duncan was almost as dominant as 2003 Duncan (which was not)
1994 Shaq was almost as dominant as 2000 Shaq (which was not, again)
1980 Moses was more dominant player than 1983 Moses (which was not, again)
1987 or 1988 Jordan was more dominant player than 1990 Jordan (which is absouletly wrong)

*Note the underlying point of why Kareem is being discussed:

I mention how dominating and athletic he was in the early 70's (MVP's, league leading titles, rings, finals MVP's the list literally goes on and on). There's plenty of footage out there to back the superb athleticism up. He was a force from the get-go in his career - he amassed as many accolades in his first 5 years as anyone could ever dream of getting.

PTBfan suggests that he he wasn't prime nor even dominant at that time and further, he suggests that it wasn't even close. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

So you can bring up his 1977 playoff stats etc - but the issue at hand was how good he was in the early 70's not just the late 70's

Do you honestly also believe Milwaukee Kareem wasn't dominant/prime within his first 5 seasons??? If so, based on what???

[PTB Fan]

Not even close???

You are absolutely out of your mind. In fact, how about this? In Kareem's 71-72 season, he played 44.2 mpg, averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, shot .574, and averaged 4.6 apg. And he accomplished all of that on a team that romped to a 63-19 record, and had a whopping +11.1 ppg differential.

Then, playing with an average supporting cast, at best, in his 75-76 Laker season, he played 41.2 mpg, averaged 27.7 ppg, which was among his worst seasons in the 70's, and shot .529 from the floor, which was his third WORST season of that decade. Granted, he led the NBA in rebounding, at 16.9 rpg, but before anyone gets too excited about that, it was his ONLY rebounding title, and he barely edged 6-9 Dave Cowens, who was at 16.0 rpg. The other leaders were 6-7 Wes Unseld, 6-7 Paul Silas, and 6-10 Sam Lacey. Gone were the dominant rebounders like Wilt and Thurmond. And of course, the biggest question simply has to be...in a season in which his team needed him to be a dominant scorer, he basically couldn't do it. And it wasn't like no one was scoring, either. McAdoo ran away with the scoing title, at 31.1 ppg, and the season before, he romped over Kareem, with a 34.5 ppg average (in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg.)

I don't find his early seasons to be the greatest. The truth was he wasn't at his finest. He was the same player in that period as he was in Milwaukee( i refer on 75-82, maybe a year plus/minus,)expect a lot better in nearly everything.

By then, he was a close to unstoppable offensive player who could shot the sky hook with either hand and from bigger distance as well. He was better defensively (maybe not as good overall..), better on the glass (posted huge #'s in the playoffs), more complete and made a bigger impact in the game.

He elevated in the playoffs to a higher standard, which is even better. But as always one of Kareem's team mates has an injury that keeps him from going deeper in the post season. The man had just as bad luck as Wilt in this regard.

It's more than the numbers and the RS. Jabbar dominated in the playoffs as always and had great series. He was robbed of a Finals MVP in '80 because of Magic's performance in Game 6.




And I will stand by my assertion that Kareem's all-around greatest season came in his SECOND season. He easily led the league in scoring at 31.7 ppg, and in only 40.1 mpg, while grabbing 16.0 rpg, and shooting .577 (which was his greatest differential against the league-average... .128 points...of his entire career.) He won the MVP, and then went on to win the FMVP, and on a team that went 66-16. BTW, the Bucks DEFENSE, in the Kareem's years, were simply among the greatest defensive team's EVER. They were holding opponents to .420, .422, and .424 seasons. Kareem was a MAJOR factor in that.

Arguable but I'd put the 76-77 season as his personal finest. His stats went up really high and he increased in every regard. 35/18/5 on 60% in the post season is just crazy. He torched the Warriors and Blazers (with healthy Bill Walton) with amazing stat lines.

He even added to his offensive game that season and made his arsenal of moves as well. However, as always, some of Kareem's team mates (in this case healthy Kermit Washington, LA's only other notable rebounder) was out of the post season and LA got killed on the glass that season. One man can do so much, but he's no team.

He didn't win a title that year unfortunately. His 77 is IMO his real peak, where he was truly at his finest, but he didn't win a title though. It's the post season domination which is why i chose this season to be as his greatest, after all, the playoffs are more important than the regular season. I didn't go with 72 as Kareem's top season because he and his Bucks were favored to win the series over Wilt, but arguably Chamberlain did enough to impact the game and lead his team in a 4-2 win in the playoffs over him.

If you pick a player A let's say.. greatest season, by mostly his performance in the regular season, then it's fine. But i don't chose them like that which is why we have different opinions on this one. All good though.

[PTB Fan]

PTBfan suggests that he he wasn't prime nor even dominant at that time and further, he suggests that it wasn't even close. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

False. I never said that Kareem wasn't in his prime in 72 nor or even that he wasn't dominant. You're making things up now. I clearly overreacted in the previous thread because Jlauber always brings Kareem's 72 season as his personal finest, because in a way he can worship Wilt who arguably outplayed Kareem in that series. I was tired of that.

That's it mate. Please don't make up things next time with me in them. Thanks.

[Helix]

Kareem had arguably his best playoff run in 1977. That run was probably the goat non-winning performance. Why did you leave the plyaoffs #s?

28.7 - 34.6
18.2 - 17.7
5.1 - 4.1
.437 - .607


I DID look at the playoffs Odinn, and I really don't see much of a difference. Considering who he went up against in 72, Chamberlain and Thurmond, two of the three best defensive centers in NBA history, and who he went up against in 77, the numbers become a bit more meaningful. Against Walton in 77 he averaged 30.3 ppg, pretty close to the 28.7 ppg average he had against Thurmond and Chamberlain combined. His ppg average got a nice boost against the Warriors facing Clifford Ray and rookie Robert Parish. So sorry to say I'm just not that impressed comparing his 77 playoff numbers to his 72 playoff numbers.

As for Kareem's performance in 77 being the goat non-winning performance, just off the top of my head I can think of three that impress me more. Wilt in 1962.....impressive numbers and he carried his team to within an eyelash of upsetting the Celtic dynasty.....a two point loss in game 7. Wilt in 1965.....same as in 62 except this time a one point loss in game 7. And what about Jerry West in 1969? He WAS, after all, named finals MVP.

Regardless though, as pointed out by CavaliersFTW, Kareem was a dominate force immediately upon his arrival in the NBA. I can attest to that.....I was there, I saw it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

bump :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

False. I never said that Kareem wasn't in his prime in 72 nor or even that he wasn't dominant. You're making things up now. I clearly overreacted in the previous thread because Jlauber always brings Kareem's 72 season as his personal finest, because in a way he can worship Wilt who arguably outplayed Kareem in that series. I was tired of that.

That's it mate. Please don't make up things next time with me in them. Thanks.

I prob said that heat of the moment. I'll refrain next time :cheers:

[jlauber]

How many seasons did Wilt get beat out in rebounding titles by a 6-8 230 lb player like Rodman, or a 6-7 245 lb. player like Ben Wallace?

7-1 350 lb. Shaq played in the NBA for 19 seasons, and won exactly... ZERO rebound titles.

7-2+ Kareem played in 20 seasons, four in the Wilt-era, and he won exactly ONE rpg title (and it didn't come in the Chamberlain-era, either.)