I Don't Believe Jordan Was a Better Player Than Lebron

[SilkkTheShocker]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.

[mrpibb]

Where the **** is my neg?

I defend LeBron a lot, but dude, this is some wack shit.

[StateOfMind12]

Jordan was better than LeBron at everything other than rebounding. I think it's safe to say MJ was better.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Jordan was better than LeBron at everything other than rebounding. I think it's safe to say MJ was better.

Yea, but you are also always wrong about anything involving basketball. So I guess its safe to say that I am right.

[LAClipsFan33]

I don't believe you know WTF you're talking about

[RaininTwos]

A lot of great players have advantages over each other but as a whole, Jordan was slightly better. There are things that Lebron does better but there are also things that Jordan does better. They are both great players though.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

SilkkTheShocker = that f*ckboy Beasley stan?

[Bob Cousy]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.
....

this thread is now about tanned f*****

http://chzbromania.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-blue-steal-on-repeat.gif

[RRR3]

Cool story bro. LeBron is one of my favorite players but besides passing and rebounding, Jordan has him beat at pretty much everything.

[guy]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.

Um scoring, defense, mental toughness, leadership, clutchness, etc.

[BlueandGold]

Jordan? Lebron isn't even better than Pippen =/

Compare the finals averages of the two players (Lebron and Pippen) and then make this thread. I would say compare Lebron's to Jordan's as well but that would be an insult.

[mrpibb]

Um scoring, defense, mental toughness, leadership, clutchness, etc.

And I never use this argument, but rings

[Deuce Bigalow]

0 championships

2011 NBA Finals

1. Dwyane Wade - 26.5 PPG
2. Dirk Nowitzki - 26.0 PPG
3. Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
4. Jason Terry - 18.0 PPG
5. Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

:roll:

[RRR3]

Jordan? Lebron isn't even better than Pippen =/

Compare the finals averages of the two players (Lebron and Pippen) and then make this thread. I would say compare Lebron's to Jordan's as well but that would be an insult.
Bullshit. Saying Pippen>LBJ is as ridiculous as saying LBJ>MJ

[KBryant24]

OP is probably 15 years old and has never seen mj play

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yea, I just don't see the case for Jordan being a better individual player than Lebron. Not arguing about achievements, because Jordan obviously has the upper hand there. But he was never a better player than Lebron. Pretty simple.

[Sarcastic]

Bullshit. Saying Pippen>LBJ is as ridiculous as saying LBJ>MJ

Not quite, but close.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

0 championships

2011 NBA Finals

1. Dwyane Wade - 26.5 PPG
2. Dirk Nowitzki - 26.0 PPG
3. Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
4. Jason Terry - 18.0 PPG
5. Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

:roll:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn99/dademo88/mj-laughing.gif

[mrpibb]

Yea, I just don't see the case for Jordan being a better individual player than Lebron. Not arguing about achievements, because Jordan obviously has the upper hand there. But he was never a better player than Lebron. Pretty simple.

:oldlol:

Ignore list.

[StateOfMind12]

Yea, but you are also always wrong about anything involving basketball. So I guess its safe to say that I am right.
Good point, you should take a look at how many people agree with you that you are right. :roll:

What happened to your Godfather username on this site?

[jstern]

Forget about stats and ring, his will to win, his ability to step up his game in the biggest moments, that's what truly makes Jordan GOAT. It's not even a knock on Lebron, it's just that Jordan was out of this world in that will to win. It's something that Jordan was born with, that you must be born with. Someone might try to act in that persona, say a Kobe Bryant, and try to project that image, but you can't match it unless you're born with it.

[mrpibb]

Forget about stats and ring, his will to win, his ability to step up his game in the biggest moments, that's what truly makes Jordan GOAT. It's not even a knock on Lebron, it's just that Jordan was out of this world in that will to win. It's something that Jordan was born with, that you must be born with. Someone might try to act in that persona, say a Kobe Bryant, and try to project that image, but you can't match it unless you're born with it.

I'm pretty sure Kobe was born with that will to win as well. He's a warrior. He's just not quite as good as Jordan.

[BlueandGold]

Bullshit. Saying Pippen>LBJ is as ridiculous as saying LBJ>MJ
Compare Finals numbers between the two and then say that. Pippen has achieved exponentially more as a 2nd option than Lebron has in his secondary and oftentimes tertiary role. As others have stated (shaqattack, redblack) the Heat are essentially maybe the 2nd or 3rd team in NBA history to have arguably the 1st and 2nd best players in the league if not top3. What's also different about this heat team is that on top of those 2 players they also have another top15 player in the league who is also top5 at that position.I can think of few teams in NBA history who have been as talented as the Heat. The 96-98 Bulls were as talented defensively but nowhere near offensively talented as this Heat team.

Losing last year's finals especially in the manner that he (Lebron) did will undoubtedly scar his resume for the rest of his career, if the decision hasn't done that already. For the reasons stated above along with the fact that they were one of the most favored teams to win the championship even before last year's pre-season and especially right before the finals.

Anyways just compare the finals stats between the two players and tell me their not similar, if anything Pippen has the edge.

[mrpibb]

I don't think it's a scar on his career as much as it's a signature series for Dirk. I mean :roll: :oldlol: Dirk's performance was just stupid.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Good point, you should take a look at how many people agree with you that you are right. :roll:


You would be the expert on that, right? :oldlol:

[DJ Leon Smith]

....

this thread is now about tanned f*****

http://chzbromania.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-blue-steal-on-repeat.gif

EXCELLENT THREAD.

[NastyCrossover1]

Jordan was a better shooter than LeBron is.

[DJ Leon Smith]

BTW how many times was Jordan the fifth leading scorer in a NBA Finals series?

CHAMPAGNE THREAD.

[I.R.Beast]

Cool story bro. LeBron is one of my favorite players but besides passing and rebounding, Jordan has him beat at pretty much everything.

see Kobe bryant

[SilkkTheShocker]

Jordan was a better shooter than LeBron is.


Thats pretty much it. Lebron was a better overall individual player.

[jrong]

That's ok. This is America. You have the freedom to hold your own opinions, even incomprehensibly absurd ones.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Thats pretty much it. Lebron was a better overall individual player.

BTW how many times was Jordan the fifth leading scorer in a NBA Finals series?

[The_Yearning]

Kobe is the only one who has done the work to deserve to be compared to me.

[Rnbizzle]

Kobe is the only one who has done the work to deserve to be compared to me.
I hate people who argue like this..

If somebody's looking to compare them AS BASKETBALL PLAYERS, looking at who is/was the better player, why the **** does it matter if you're 3rd or 5th on the all time scoring list for instance? That's all so very circumstantial.

I'm going to be real here.

Scoring - Jordan
Passing - Lebron
Rebouding - Lebron
Team D - Lebron
Man D - Jordan
Clutchness - Jordan
Leadership - Jordan

--

If you're looking at all time lists, of course we're going to included their achievements but if you're comparing the two as players, there's nothing wrong with admitting Lebron is better at certain things in the game of basketball. People acting like that's something blasphemous to say are the biggest retards of all.

[NastyCrossover1]

Thats pretty much it. Lebron was a better overall individual player.
Jordan could also finish at the rim as good as anyone. He had supreme ball handling, 2nd all time in steals, was as good as LeBron at getting blocks. Jordan grabbed slightly fewer boards while being inches shorter. Not to mention that Jordan had the GOAT first step for his size, he blew past anyone. LeBron is not a better overall player than Jordan was.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol:

Ignore list.
ok tough guy. I bet you were home schooled growing up :oldlol:

[guy]

I hate people who argue like this..

If somebody's looking to compare them AS BASKETBALL PLAYERS, looking at who is/was the better player, why the **** does it matter if you're 3rd or 5th on the all time scoring list for instance? That's all so very circumstantial.

I'm going to be real here.

Scoring - Jordan
Passing - Lebron
Rebouding - Lebron
Team D - Lebron
Man D - Jordan
Clutchness - Jordan
Leadership - Jordan

--

If you're looking at all time lists, of course we're going to included their achievements but if you're comparing the two as players, there's nothing wrong with admitting Lebron is better at certain things in the game of basketball. People acting like that's something blasphemous to say are the biggest retards of all.

Lebron was not as good of a team defender as Jordan.

[guy]

Thats pretty much it. Lebron was a better overall individual player.

You should backup that conclusion with more detailed opinions.

[Rnbizzle]

Lebron was not as good of a team defender as Jordan.
I disagree. Lebron can switch onto 95% of the players in the league, he's a great shotblocker for his position and if you pay close attention to his defense, he reads to offense brilliantly, you can see him calling out the plays the other team's running and then coaching his teammates on how to defend it a lot of times.

Jordan was a better defender on his man but as a team defender, you have to give this to Lebron.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Jordan could also finish at the rim as good as anyone. He had supreme ball handling, 2nd all time in steals, was as good as LeBron at getting blocks. Jordan grabbed slightly fewer boards while being inches shorter. Not to mention that Jordan had the GOAT first step for his size, he blew past anyone. LeBron is not a better overall player than Jordan was.


Lebron is the GOAT at driving to the rim

[Rnbizzle]

Lebron is the GOAT at driving to the rim
Wrong. Wade for instance, is a better slasher than Lebron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Did you not watch the 2011 finals?
That was the most pathetic basketball I've ever seen from a star

and I'll give some facts for you

Finals performances

Jordan's WORST Finals average = 27.3
Lebron's single Finals game CAREER HIGH = 25


Lebron is the GOAT at driving to the rim
The only thing Lebron is GOAT in is choking

[Maestro33]

Im at the prime age to comment on this as I saw all of Mikes career and all of Lebrons. Even as a lifelong Bulls fan I will concede that Bron is a better.....passer. In no other category does he touch Mike.

If there was one for totally under utilized power maybe. The fact Lebron has as much post game as Brad Miller is a total wasted opportunity to narrow the gap between himself and Kobe, forget Mike.

Also Bron is powerful as hell on drives but if you put him in say 1988 and watched him try that against New York or Detroit he will not finish as elegantly or efficiently. As we always say the game has changed and as you are likely in grade ten you dont know what we mean.

[SilkkTheShocker]

You should backup that conclusion with more detailed opinions.

Kind of like this, right?


Lebron was not as good of a team defender as Jordan.

LOL

[Bob Cousy]

Did you not watch the 2011 finals?
That was the most pathetic basketball I've ever seen from a star

and I'll give some facts for you

Finals performances

>>>Jordan's WORST Finals average = 27.3
Lebron's single Finals game CAREER HIGH = 25<<<


The only thing Lebron is GOAT in is choking
Just wanted to re-emphasize this point.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wrong. Wade for instance, is a better slasher than Lebron.


Thats incorrect. Just because Wade drives more doesn't mean he was even on Lebron's level as a slasher.

[Rnbizzle]

I know it's just highlights but look at this video and get back with me;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPVzvf3nPxQ

Check the part where you see his slashing, there's things in there Lebron has never been able to do.

[Bob Cousy]

Thats incorrect. Just because Wade drives more doesn't mean he was even on Lebron's level as a slasher.
:facepalm

you're just trolling, aren't you. I know you can't be serious.

[Ronaldinho]

I honestly dont think that Lebron is that good in Rebound.Specially for a guy of his size.If Kobe played as a SF he would probably have more rebounds.The guy is a beast on the boards when he wants.Lebron sux on OR.

And he is an overrated Playmaker, because ppl give him a lot of time and space.Or else he would just drive to the rim.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron isn't even above Dwyane Wade or Dirk Nowitzki on the AT List, and OP is talking about Jordan :lol

[HurricaneKid]

I think we should keep this on the front page until Reps come back. Because when they do...

[SilkkTheShocker]

I honestly dont think that Lebron is that good in Rebound.Specially for a guy of his size.If Kobe played as a SF he would probably have more rebounds.The guy is a beast on the boards when he wants.Lebron sux on OR.

And he is an overrated Playmaker, because ppl give him a lot of time and space.Or else he would just drive to the rim.

Maybe you should stick to watching crappy soccer

[SilkkTheShocker]

:facepalm

you're just trolling, aren't you. I know you can't be serious.

Wade isn't as good at slashing as Lebron. Never has been.

[Ronaldinho]

Maybe you should stick to watching crappy soccer


You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bob Cousy]

Wade isn't as good at slashing as Lebron. Never has been.06' Wade = better at getting to and finishing at the rim and drawing contact than LeBron is now

not even debatable.

[guy]

I disagree. Lebron can switch onto 95% of the players in the league, he's a great shotblocker for his position and if you pay close attention to his defense, he reads to offense brilliantly, you can see him calling out the plays the other team's running and then coaching his teammates on how to defend it a lot of times.

Jordan was a better defender on his man but as a team defender, you have to give this to Lebron.

You do realize you can pretty much say the exact same thing about Jordan right? As far as reading the offense and anticipating and predicting what they're going to do, as great as Lebron is, Jordan was on another level. He was one of the greatest ever, if not arguably the greatest, at doing this. Jordan wasn't just a great shotblocker for this position, he's more then likely THE GREATEST shotblocking SG ever and a greater shotblocker then Lebron despite playing a position further from the basket. He also clearly played the passing lanes better then Lebron ever did. The fact that he's averaged more steals and blocks then Lebron is strong evidence to this.

Lebron's a great help defender, but he's not Jordan. Picking Lebron is just being a prisoner of the moment or just giving him the benefit of a doubt cause you don't want to make this comparison so lopsided.

[guy]

Kind of like this, right?



LOL

I've outlined what I believe Jordan was better at i.e. scoring, defense, mental toughness, leadership, clutchness, etc. You just provided a blanket statement.

[Rnbizzle]

You do realize you can pretty much say the exact same thing about Jordan right? As far as reading the offense and anticipating and predicting what they're going to do, as great as Lebron is, Jordan was on another level. He was one of the greatest ever, if not arguably the greatest, at doing this. Jordan wasn't just a great shotblocker for this position, he's more then likely THE GREATEST shotblocking SG ever and a greater shotblocker then Lebron despite playing a position further from the basket. He also clearly played the passing lanes better then Lebron ever did. The fact that he's averaged more steals and blocks then Lebron is strong evidence to this.

Lebron's a great help defender, but he's not Jordan. Picking Lebron is just being a prisoner of the moment or just giving him the benefit of a doubt cause you don't want to make this comparison so lopsided.
Before responding to your entire post I'd like to point out that as a shotblocker Wade > Jordan.

[tobethdope]

Lebron is the GOAT at driving to the rim


imo jordan is by far the best at this ever, especially when u consider defenses in the late 80

[SilkkTheShocker]

06' Wade = better at getting to and finishing at the rim and drawing contact than LeBron is now

not even debatable.

Its not debateable because lebron is the best finisher ever at the rim

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE=tobethdope]imo jordan is by far the best at this ever, especially when u consider defenses in the late 80

[Vienceslav]

Only way this is plausible is saying that if you were to wire a computer to their brain and extract all their ,,stats,, and ,,skills,, for NBA 2k34 game.
Then i believe Lebron has the clear upper hand above any player ever ,just simply by having the superior athleticism and skill set , but in the real world this is not a discussion and MJ is just better than anyone else ever.Proving time and time again he plays best when it matters the most.

[skan72]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.

Not reading this entire thread.

Better overall player? No. In terms of basketball fundamentals, Jordan's game was way better. LeBron is bigger, stronger, maybe more athletic. If he had Jordan's killer instinct and drive, combined with his athleticism, he would be the better player. But he doesn't, so he's not.

[Ronaldinho]

Only way this is plausible is saying that if you were to wire a computer to their brain and extract all their ,,stats,, and ,,skills,, for NBA 2k34 game.
Then i believe Lebron has the clear upper hand above any player ever ,just simply by having the superior athleticism and skill set , but in the real world this is not a discussion and MJ is just better than anyone else ever.Proving time and time again he plays best when it matters the most.
The guy lacks of a lot of fundamentals.We saw how lost he got in the finals.He was literally hurting the team.

[pauk]

Lebron alongside Jordan and Oscar sure is the most talented-dominant-productive allround/overall player we have seen..... only a Lebron hater would say otherwise...

[Bob Cousy]

Rose is a one trick pony. Not even the best pg in the nba
but you agree he's better at finishing at the rim than LeBron.

[gengiskhan]

Jordan

1988: NBA MVP + NBA DPOY + NBA Scoring Champ + NBA Playoff Scoring Leader + NBA Steals Champ.

all in one year.

Lebron's absolute peak prime will be MJs 60%-70% of prime .

MJ had unstoppable post-up game in his athletic prime. Lebron still dont have it.

[Rnbizzle]

Rose is a one trick pony. Not even the best pg in the nba
That's not at all the thing that's being discussed here.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron alongside Jordan and Oscar sure is the most talented-dominant-productive allround/overall player we have seen..... only a Lebron hater would say otherwise...

No one produced more than Wilt Chamberlain.

[pauk]

No one produced more than Wilt Chamberlain.

Baring Wilts 60s era pace/possessions/minutes calculations.... some players actually were more productive and their names are Jordan & Lebron....

Did you see the article calculating Jordans/Lebrons numbers of 60s era pace/possessions/minutes? Lebron ended up with an estimated average of 44/15/15.... and Jordan 48/10/10.... They calculated also Wilts/Oscars average in terms of 00s era pace and so on, Oscar had 24-6-6 and Wilt averaged 29-10-3 (which is still very good, but not that ridicilous)

PER shows that to...

per minute/possession there has not been a more overall productive player than Jordan & Lebron...

[SilkkTheShocker]

That's not at all the thing that's being discussed here.

He isn't a better slasher than Lebron.

[Bigsmoke]

MJ is gawd!

LeBron got that shit too.. no doubt. but he aint ****ing with Jordan.

[nathanjizzle]

i cant believe how stupid people are and how they dont know it.

[ralph_i_el]

Jordon was a better shooter and slasher. He won a DPOY. He didn't shrink in crunch time.

seems clear cut to me

[chazzy]

Lebron's not better than peak Shaq or Hakeem, let alone MJ.

Baring Wilts 60s era pace/possessions/minutes calculations.... some players actually were more productive and their names are Jordan & Lebron....

Did you see the article calculating Jordans/Lebrons numbers of 60s era pace/possessions/minutes? Lebron ended up with an estimated average of 44/15/15.... and Jordan 48/10/10.... They calculated also Wilts/Oscars average in terms of 00s era pace and so on, Oscar had 24-6-6 and Wilt averaged 29-10-3 (which is still very good, but not that ridicilous)

PER shows that to...

per minute/possession there has not been a more overall productive player than Jordan & Lebron...
If you're factoring in pace, why is Oscar top 10?

[rhythmic]

:oldlol:

[D-Wade316]

Lebron's not better than peak Shaq or Hakeem, let alone MJ.
Lebron's 08-09 is the single greatest season of all-time. Yeah. You heard it.

[Alamo]

OP pretty much sums up almost all Lebron fans on ISH

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron's 08-09 is the single greatest season of all-time. Yeah. You heard it.

Greatest single season of all-time yet no ring to show for it? Sure, have your opinion, and I'll raise you Jordan's '91 season, Hakeem's '94 year, and Shaq's 2000 domination.

[madmax]

Jordan was a better shooter than LeBron is.

yup, pretty much it...
Lebron has better PER and and is generally much better all-arround player and teammate though. Jordan was pretty good for his time as well

[jrong]

Thats incorrect. Just because Wade drives more doesn't mean he was even on Lebron's level as a slasher.

Actually, Wade's better. Clearly. Why do you think LeBron struggles in the playoffs when his jumpshot deserts him? He can't break down elite playoff defense off the dribble. Wade, with his dribble moves and change-of-direction ability can. That's been the common denominator in all four of the high-profile playoff series James has struggled in (Spurs 07, Celtics 08, Celtics 10, Mavs 11). How many times do you have to see this movie replayed?

[madmax]

but you agree he's better at finishing at the rim than LeBron.

I'm pretty sure Lebron has the best career FG% of finishing at a rim for all perimeter players...try again:cheers:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Silkk was a terrible, terrible rapper. Absolutely awful. Pretty much, the rapist was the only No Limit artist that wasn't complete trash.

[chazzy]

If Lebron finishes with a higher PER than MJ this year, shit will hit the fan. All the younger stat heavy Lebron stans will have a field day :oldlol:

[AceManIII]

:oldlol: I needed a laugh today

[2swift4u]

MJ is the greatest basketball player ever, no doubt... MJ was mentally better than Lebron and that's why he was so clutch and Lebron isn't. But I watched MJ play in the 90s and I've got to point out one bad thing: he very often took like a 1000 shots a game and missed a lot of them! Lebron doesn't play like that in Miami.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Silkk was a terrible, terrible rapper. Absolutely awful. Pretty much, the rapist was the only No Limit artist that wasn't complete trash.


Whatever. Silkk is always going ro be underrated.

[Bob Cousy]

yup, pretty much it...
Lebron has better PER and and is generally much better all-arround player and teammate though. Jordan was pretty good for his time as well
:facepalm

:banghead:

[heavensdevil]

:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

First 8 seasons comparisons between Jordan and LeBron

Regular Season Numbers

Michael Jordan: 32.3ppg 6.3reb 6.0ast 2.7stl 1.1blk 3.1tov 51.4%fg 84.7%ft 28.4%3pt 38.7 MPG (played 589 games)

LeBron James: 27.7ppg 7.1reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 0.8blk 3.3tov 47.9%fg 74.4%ft 32.9%3pt 40.1 MPG (played 627 games)

Playoff Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 34.6ppg 6.7reb 6.8ast 2.4stl 1.0blk 3.5tov 50.7%fg 84.0%ft 33.7%3pt 42.0 MPG(played 92 games)

LeBron James: 28.0ppg 8.0reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 1.0blk 3.6tov 46.0%fg 74.6%ft 32.3%3pt 43.6 MPG (played 92 games)

Finals Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 33.7ppg 5.6reb 8.7ast 2.2stl 0.8blk 3.8tov 53.9%fg 87.3%ft 43.8%3pt 43.2 MPG (11 games played)

LeBron James: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 1.4stl 0.5blk 4.7tov 41.7%fg 65.3%ft 27.1%3pt 43.1 MPG (10 games played)


Yet, LeBron's the better overall player ? Let's not forget that LeBron's also playing in a far more perimeter friendly era of defense.

Not saying LeBron wouldn't do better with more physical pressure, but Jordan would completely be more dominant in his prime today, because the rules fit his style.

Also, somebody brought up "Lebron has better PER":

Regular Season

Michael Jordan: 29.83 (#1 rank all-time)
LeBron James: 26.86 (#2 rank all-time)

Playoffs

Michael Jordan: 29.50 (#1 all-time)
LeBron James: 26.31 (#3 all-time)


I don't look at PER for my criteria, but don't just blatantly lie... If his PER is higher from this season, I didn't include it here because I only included first 8 seasons....

EDIT - I put indivdual, not overall. But I think both nods go to Jordan.

[Streetballer]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llj6mz43yr1qzhk18.gif

If you Really Believe that Sh!t you need to get ur head Check!!!
I Was the Biggest Knicks Fan in the 90's I use to hate Jordan!!!
But to Say Bron is Better Than M.J Dude You need to get off that Pipe!!!!

[Bob Cousy]

First 8 seasons comparisons between Jordan and LeBron

Regular Season Numbers

Michael Jordan: 32.3ppg 6.3reb 6.0ast 2.7stl 1.1blk 3.1tov 51.4%fg 84.7%ft 28.4%3pt 38.7 MPG (played 589 games)

LeBron James: 27.7ppg 7.1reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 0.8blk 3.3tov 47.9%fg 74.4%ft 32.9%3pt 40.1 MPG (played 627 games)

Playoff Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 34.6ppg 6.7reb 6.8ast 2.4stl 1.0blk 3.5tov 50.7%fg 84.0%ft 33.7%3pt 42.0 MPG(played 92 games)

LeBron James: 28.0ppg 8.0reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 1.0blk 3.6tov 46.0%fg 74.6%ft 32.3%3pt 43.6 MPG (played 92 games)

Finals Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 33.7ppg 5.6reb 8.7ast 2.2stl 0.8blk 3.8tov 53.9%fg 87.3%ft 43.8%3pt 43.2 MPG (11 games played)

LeBron James: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 1.4stl 0.5blk 4.7tov 41.7%fg 65.3%ft 27.1%3pt 43.1 MPG (10 games played)


Yet, LeBron's the better individual player ? Let's not forget that LeBron's also playing in a far more perimeter friendly era of defense.

Not saying LeBron wouldn't do better with more physical pressure, but Jordan would completely be more dominant in his prime today, because the rules fit his style.

Also, somebody brought up "Lebron has better PER":

Regular Season

Michael Jordan: 29.83 (#1 rank all-time)
LeBron James: 26.86 (#2 rank all-time)

Playoffs

Michael Jordan: 29.50 (#1 all-time)
LeBron James: 26.31 (#3 all-time)


I don't look at PER for my criteria, but don't just blatantly lie... If his PER is higher from this season, I didn't include it here because I only included first 8 seasons....
flawless.:bowdown:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan was a better shooter than LeBron is.

Thats pretty much it. Lebron was a better overall individual player.


Err, no, that's not it. He was also a far better SCORER overall, and a significantly better defender. That covers both sides of the ball. And Lebron's edges in rebounding and passing (if any - which I don't really concede) are very small.



Scoring - Jordan
Passing - Lebron
Rebouding - Lebron
Team D - Lebron
Man D - Jordan
Clutchness - Jordan
Leadership - Jordan

Team D for Lebron is an absolute JOKE. Jordan is AT WORST a top 2 team defender of all time on the perimeter, with only Pippen having a case above him. Lebron isn't even CLOSE to MJ as a team defender. Seriously.

[97 bulls]

Compare Finals numbers between the two and then say that. Pippen has achieved exponentially more as a 2nd option than Lebron has in his secondary and oftentimes tertiary role. As others have stated (shaqattack, redblack) the Heat are essentially maybe the 2nd or 3rd team in NBA history to have arguably the 1st and 2nd best players in the league if not top3. What's also different about this heat team is that on top of those 2 players they also have another top15 player in the league who is also top5 at that position.I can think of few teams in NBA history who have been as talented as the Heat. The 96-98 Bulls were as talented defensively but nowhere near offensively talented as this Heat team.

Losing last year's finals especially in the manner that he (Lebron) did will undoubtedly scar his resume for the rest of his career, if the decision hasn't done that already. For the reasons stated above along with the fact that they were one of the most favored teams to win the championship even before last year's pre-season and especially right before the finals.

Anyways just compare the finals stats between the two players and tell me their not similar, if anything Pippen has the edge.
Noone will acknowledge this, but there's no way the heat lose to the mavs if pippen replaces james.

[Bob Cousy]

Team D for Lebron is an absolute JOKE. Jordan is AT WORST a top 2 team defender of all time on the perimeter, with only Pippen having a case above him. Lebron isn't even CLOSE to MJ as a team defender. Seriously.these people man ...

LeBron couldn't even stay on Jason Terry or keep Barrea from penetrating frequently but he is all of a sudden better than JORDAN in team defending ?

:roll:

[TheMan]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.


you, sir, are basketball retarded

[LakersReign]

Like I keep saying, Lebronites CLEARLY know nothing about basketball. These are the same people who bare their fangs whenever Kobe is mentioned in the same sentence with Jordan, but then wanna turn right around and try to either compare Lebron to Jordan, or flat out TRY to say he's better than Jordan. Then when you call them out on it, they wanna cry and throw their pathetic little temper tantrums. This proves yet again why REAL NBA fans don't take them seriously.:no:

[I.R.Beast]

Noone will acknowledge this, but there's no way the heat lose to the mavs if pippen replaces james.
damn right...Jason Terry wouldnt dare shoot those 3s in pippens face.

[97 bulls]

First 8 seasons comparisons between Jordan and LeBron

Regular Season Numbers

Michael Jordan: 32.3ppg 6.3reb 6.0ast 2.7stl 1.1blk 3.1tov 51.4%fg 84.7%ft 28.4%3pt 38.7 MPG (played 589 games)

LeBron James: 27.7ppg 7.1reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 0.8blk 3.3tov 47.9%fg 74.4%ft 32.9%3pt 40.1 MPG (played 627 games)

Playoff Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 34.6ppg 6.7reb 6.8ast 2.4stl 1.0blk 3.5tov 50.7%fg 84.0%ft 33.7%3pt 42.0 MPG(played 92 games)

LeBron James: 28.0ppg 8.0reb 7.0ast 1.7stl 1.0blk 3.6tov 46.0%fg 74.6%ft 32.3%3pt 43.6 MPG (played 92 games)

Finals Career Numbers

Michael Jordan: 33.7ppg 5.6reb 8.7ast 2.2stl 0.8blk 3.8tov 53.9%fg 87.3%ft 43.8%3pt 43.2 MPG (11 games played)

LeBron James: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 1.4stl 0.5blk 4.7tov 41.7%fg 65.3%ft 27.1%3pt 43.1 MPG (10 games played)


Yet, LeBron's the better overall player ? Let's not forget that LeBron's also playing in a far more perimeter friendly era of defense.

Not saying LeBron wouldn't do better with more physical pressure, but Jordan would completely be more dominant in his prime today, because the rules fit his style.

Also, somebody brought up "Lebron has better PER":

Regular Season

Michael Jordan: 29.83 (#1 rank all-time)
LeBron James: 26.86 (#2 rank all-time)

Playoffs

Michael Jordan: 29.50 (#1 all-time)
LeBron James: 26.31 (#3 all-time)


I don't look at PER for my criteria, but don't just blatantly lie... If his PER is higher from this season, I didn't include it here because I only included first 8 seasons....

EDIT - I put indivdual, not overall. But I think both nods go to Jordan.
And it goes far beyond statistics, jordan was far better off the ball which is what killed miami last year. Also, james is not the defender jordan was. Not in iso or help. Jason terry and jj beerea exposed that.

The thing about james, is that he's stats and style but no substance. People are enamored at the amazing dunks and chase down blocks, but often overlook the results.

[I.R.Beast]

these people man ...

LeBron couldn't even stay on Jason Terry or keep Barrea from penetrating frequently but he is all of a sudden better than JORDAN in team defending ?

:roll:
lebrons defense has always been overrated....Prior to last season he's been getting owned by the older slower Paul Pierce, and other players at his position.

[Indian guy]

If Lebron finishes with a higher PER than MJ this year, shit will hit the fan. All the younger stat heavy Lebron stans will have a field day :oldlol:

The funny thing is, Heat-LeBron is the furthest he's been from MJ since '07.

[rodman91]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/192/492/full-retard.gif?1319846375

[SilkkTheShocker]

The funny thing is, Heat-LeBron is the furthest he's been from MJ since '07.

Aren't you the guy who said Rose was the best player in the NBA? GTFO :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

damn right...Jason Terry wouldnt dare shoot those 3s in pippens face.
Yep. And that was after terry submitted a personal challenge to james by saying james couldn't guard him. Pippen would've chased him out of basketball.

[SilkkTheShocker]

you, sir, are basketball retarded

Hey clown, learn how to use commas :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yep. And that was after terry submitted a personal challenge to james by saying james couldn't guard him. Pippen would've chased him out of basketball.

Or he would have sat on the bench with a migraine

[Indian guy]

Aren't you the guy who said Rose was the best player in the NBA? GTFO :oldlol:

I stick to it. I would take Rose over LeBron without a second's hesitation.

[chazzy]

The funny thing is, Heat-LeBron is the furthest he's been from MJ since '07.
I don't know if I would go that far back, but I definitely think 09 and 10 Lebron were still better than he is now.

[andgar923]

MJ is better in everything, period.

Yes even rebounds.

Bron doesn't know how to box out properly, for all of his size he's not tough enough to be in the trenches. Most of his rebounds aren't because he out positioned or was tougher (he aint even tougher than Kobe).

Passing... we've discussed this before.

Bron thinks about it at times too much, he sorta telegraphs his passes and isn't as instinctively fast at making the decision and executing like MJ. It's one thing to make fancy passes (they both can do that), it's another to make fast and proper decisions with the ball. I've seen Bron get double teamed and hold the ball for far too long more frequently than MJ has. Shit... you rarely saw Mj get doubled with the ball cause he was quicker at reading the defense before they got a chance to double him. And when he did get doubled, he got it away fast, didn't hesitate at all. His actions were swift and precise.

These are the only two categories that Bron may have an edge, or comes close too, but ultimately fails. Other than that, Mj has Bron beat with relative ease.

And if you put prime MJ in this era, with the long quick 3pt shots, lack of big men, and less physical rules, MJ's rebounds jump up as well. With today's interpretation of what an assist is, his assists jump up as well (although not as much).

[Legends66NBA7]

And it goes far beyond statistics, jordan was far better off the ball which is what killed miami last year. Also, james is not the defender jordan was. Not in iso or help. Jason terry and jj beerea exposed that.

The thing about james, is that he's stats and style but no substance. People are enamored at the amazing dunks and chase down blocks, but often overlook the results.

Yes, agreed.

That's one thing some of these major superstars don't get and Jordan did. How to be a great off-ball player... It's something I've seen Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc... struggle at and they look out of place.

I do agree with some of the things said about LeBron as well... Maybe using purely stats wasn't the best idea, but I don't know what else the OP wanted us to use if we weren't going to use achievements, so I went with that...

Aside from that, advanced metrics (those who are fans of them) aren't in LeBron's favor either...

[ThatsGame]

I don't know if I would go that far back, but I definitely think 09 and 10 Lebron were still better than he is now.

What? He's having his best season right now. If the Heat didn't blow teams out so bad and sit their stars in the 4th, he'd have even better numbers. :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

MJ is better in everything, period.

Yes even rebounds.

Bron doesn't know how to box out properly, for all of his size he's not tough enough to be in the trenches. Most of his rebounds aren't because he out positioned or was tougher (he aint even tougher than Kobe).

Passing... we've discussed this before.

Bron thinks about it at times too much, he sorta telegraphs his passes and isn't as instinctively fast at making the decision and executing like MJ. It's one thing to make fancy passes (they both can do that), it's another to make fast and proper decisions with the ball. I've seen Bron get double teamed and hold the ball for far too long more frequently than MJ has. Shit... you rarely saw Mj get doubled with the ball cause he was quicker at reading the defense before they got a chance to double him. And when he did get doubled, he got it away fast, didn't hesitate at all. His actions were swift and precise.

These are the only two categories that Bron may have an edge, or comes close too, but ultimately fails. Other than that, Mj has Bron beat with relative ease.

And if you put prime MJ in this era, with the long quick 3pt shots, lack of big men, and less physical rules, MJ's rebounds jump up as well. With today's interpretation of what an assist is, his assists jump up as well (although not as much).

I do agree about with rebounds, especially if we are talking about positions. Jordan also gets more offensive rebounds than LeBron, which is surprising considering LeBron's build (he should be crashing the offensive boards more often).

Passing, I give to LeBron. I believe that's his mindset too, to think about making more about the plays to get his teammates involved first...

I agree with the later parts too, I've touched upon that in my first post.

[rodman91]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm6yykZAZh1qfocge.gif

[Indian guy]

Too much talk of defense in this thread. Individual defense on the perimeter has minimal to no impact on the game. Some of MJ's best defensive seasons('89 and '90) came during seasons where Bulls didn't even rank in the Top 10, whereas LeBron's teams are consistently Top 5. Perimeter defenders, no matter how good(and MJ was arguably the GOAT), simply do not have a significant impact on the game. You can replace them with an average player(as Bulls did in '94 and '95) and still produce identical results. Defense is 85-90% coaching.

MJ is better than LeBron, especially current LeBron, because of offense. Defense has nothing to do with it.

[chazzy]

What? He's having his best season right now. If the Heat didn't blow teams out so bad and sit their stars in the 4th, he'd have even better numbers. :facepalm
It goes beyond numbers. Those Cavs teams played at the 5th slowest pace in the league, current Miami runs a lot more which creates fastbreak opportunities. Lebron was quicker and attacked the rim better in a halfcourt set back then, and was much more decisive in crunch time.

[97 bulls]

Or he would have sat on the bench with a migraine
What kind of sense does this make? The bottom line is that james in no way shape or form should be even remotely compared to jordan seeing as how an argument can be made that pippen would've done better in james role on the heat.

[LakersReign]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm6yykZAZh1qfocge.gif



That scene from "Bad Teacher" is already a classic:lol

[TheMan]

Hey clown, learn how to use commas :oldlol:
I learn how to use commas if you learn basketball pre 2006...dope.

Funny how you getting clowned here, you don't even believe your opening post, troll.

LBJ couldn't even lock down Terry after Terry told him he couldn't guard him:facepalm

[97 bulls]

Yes, agreed.

That's one thing some of these major superstars don't get and Jordan did. How to be a great off-ball player... It's something I've seen Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc... struggle at and they look out of place.

I do agree with some of the things said about LeBron as well... Maybe using purely stats wasn't the best idea, but I don't know what else the OP wanted us to use if we weren't going to use achievements, so I went with that...

Aside from that, advanced metrics (those who are fans of them) aren't in LeBron's favor either...
Statistics are great cuz in this forum, that's all people look at. I firmly believe that the people that frequent this forum only watch the end of basketball games and the highlights.

[Heavincent]

lol at Lebron stans. They scream bloody murder when someone compares Kobe (one of the ten greatest players ever) to Jordan, but saying that Lebron is BETTER than Jordan is perfectly fine :oldlol:

:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

I learn how to use commas if you learn basketball pre 2006...dope.

Funny how you getting clowned here, you don't even believe your opening post, troll.

LBJ couldn't even lock down Terry after Terry told him he couldn't guard him:facepalm

That's another thing that hasn't been talked about too much in this thread: the mental game.

Jordan was one of the best trash talkers in the league and he took every challenge to heart.

Imagine Shawn Marion calling Jordan a "b!tch" to his face after hitting a shot over him or Jason Terry saying that Jordan "can't guard me"....

Jordan would absolutely destroy them... I wouldn

[97 bulls]

Too much talk of defense in this thread. Individual defense on the perimeter has minimal to no impact on the game. Some of MJ's best defensive seasons('89 and '90) came during seasons where Bulls didn't even rank in the Top 10, whereas LeBron's teams are consistently Top 5. Perimeter defenders, no matter how good(and MJ was arguably the GOAT), simply do not have a significant impact on the game. You can replace them with an average player(as Bulls did in '94 and '95) and still produce identical results. Defense is 85-90% coaching.

MJ is better than LeBron, especially current LeBron, because of offense. Defense has nothing to do with it.
Lol really? Bruce Bowen? Michael Cooper? Ron Harper? Satch Sanders? Dennis Rodman? Do you remeber what terry and berea did to james in the finals?

Was it the coaches gameplan to allow terry and berea to stick jumper after jumper in james face?

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]That's another thing that hasn't been talked about too much in this thread: the mental game.

Jordan was one of the best trash talkers in the league and he took every challenge to heart.

Imagine Shawn Marion calling Jordan a "b!tch" to his face after hitting a shot over him or Jason Terry saying that Jordan "can't guard me"....

Jordan would absolutely destroy them... I wouldn

[Legends66NBA7]

That was one of MJ's famous personality traits, he was a mean SOB, if he took anything as a slight, he would try to bury you...a lot of NBA players back then were genuinely afraid of MJ for fear of pissing him off, John Starks was burned many times because he would get in MJ's face and ultimatly it would backfire, lol.

LBJ just doesn't have that mean streak...he wants to be liked.

+1.

That's the problem with LeBron... He's got all the talent in the world that he should just embrace his role as the "bad guy"... Not try to please everybody.

And history has already been written as such, we have seen signs of LeBron mentally checking out of series (2010 vs Boston; 2011 vs Dallas, just the most recent examples)...

How does LeBron, in his prime, get outplayed by a teammates in Wade if he's the better individual overall player ? Jordan NEVER let that happen in the Finals (and in the playoffs, that rarely even happened to Jordan...) that he was determined to destroy his opponents but also show who runs things on his teams.

Another thing, Jordan in 5 of his 6 Finals, faced either the runner up or league MVP (1991 Magic, 1992 Drexler, 1993 Barkley, 1997 and 1998 Malone) and showed them who was the best player in the series, regardless of who won the MVP or who the media believed was "close".

In two Finals, LeBron let Duncan's Spurs add to their legacy (though their team was outmatched) and Dirk's Mavs bring the first ever title to Dallas (but they had the better team this time).

Jordan stops players from winning it all and at all costs, putting up legendary finals numbers; LeBron as so far shown the opposite, putting up Record lows in his overall PPG.

[TheMan]

+1.

That's the problem with LeBron... He's got all the talent in the world that he should just embrace his role as the "bad guy"... Not try to please everybody.

And history has already been written as such, we have seen signs of LeBron mentally checking out of series (2010 vs Boston; 2011 vs Dallas, just the most recent examples)...

How does LeBron, in his prime, get outplayed by a teammates in Wade if he's the better individual overall player ? Jordan NEVER let that happen in the Finals (and in the playoffs, that rarely even happened to Jordan...) that he was determined to destroy his opponents but also show who runs things on his teams.

Another thing, Jordan in 5 of his 6 Finals, faced either the runner up or league MVP (1991 Magic, 1992 Drexler, 1993 Barkley, 1997 and 1998 Malone) and showed them who was the best player in the series, regardless of who won the MVP or who the media believed was "close".

In two Finals, LeBron let Duncan's Spurs add to their legacy (though their team was outmatched) and Dirk's Mavs bring the first ever title to Dallas (but they had the better team this time).

Jordan stops players from winning it all and at all costs, putting up legendary finals numbers; LeBron as so far shown the opposite, putting up Record lows in his overall PPG.

But LBJ has the better overall game!
:facepalm

[BlueandGold]

I learn how to use commas if you learn basketball pre 2006...dope.

Funny how you getting clowned here, you don't even believe your opening post, troll.

LBJ couldn't even lock down Terry after Terry told him he couldn't guard him

Looking back at the player statistics of that series that part did surprise me the most. Lebron was actually the 5th highest scorer in that series with Wade, Dirk, Bosh and Terry all averaging and scoring more points for the series....

the Terry ppg (18) is actually the most surprising because it was lebron who garnered that assignment on d, especially with what Terry and Marion were saying about Lebron all series... I was really surprised that he just took it on the chin and literally did nothing about it. Hell even if it was me playing instead of Lebron at the very least I would have done would be to foul him hard everytime I defended him, even on the perimeter and as far back as the 3point arc. That's one thing that I don't see enough superstar players taking advantage of, especially Lebron, is to foul their defensive matchup hard everytime down the floor because a ref is going to call flagrants on superstar players the least often.

[Scholar]

Not about to read this entire thread, but I find it funny when little punk ass kids who only recently started watching the NBA try to compare current players with all-time greats AND say the active player is better than the all-time great.
"I've seen Jordan's flu game, and his 63 point game, and his... etc." Congrats. But you didn't actually watch him play. You don't know jack shit.
All you know is what stats show you, and even stats say, "Jordan > LBJ."

[SilkkTheShocker]

But LBJ has the better overall game!
:facepalm

He does. Deal with it.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Not about to read this entire thread, but I find it funny when little punk ass kids who only recently started watching the NBA try to compare current players with all-time greats AND say the active player is better than the all-time great.
"I've seen Jordan's flu game, and his 63 point game, and his... etc." Congrats. But you didn't actually watch him play. You don't know jack shit.
All you know is what stats show you, and even stats say, "Jordan > LBJ."

LOL at this fake azz tough guy talking sh^t over the internet. You ain't tough kid, now stfu

[Legends66NBA7]

He does. Deal with it.

There's no evidence to suggest that LeBron's has the better overall game.

We've already looked at the stats at the first 8 years from regular seasons, playoffs, and finals (they've played virtually the same number of playoffs and finals games) and that favors Jordan.

We've already talked about the intangibles and ability to play the game with both and that clearly favors Jordan again.

Typing out "deal with it", when your on the losing end of this arguement, isn't going to change anything in this debate. Neither the past or the present.

[Bob Cousy]

LOL at this fake azz tough guy talking sh^t over the internet. You ain't tough kid, now stfu
you're calling him a fake tough guy, how ironic.

the only thing you've done in your own thread is go "nuh uh, im right you're wrong"

:roll:

you're a complete fool who doesn't even know how to debate, you just sit there and stare at your screen while 100 people prove you wrong

:roll:

anyone who comes on a sports forum without knowledge of the game or debating skills is a lowlife. Whats the point of you being here ??? what do you contribute ? absolutely nothing, you're a loser.

[hoop_soup]

Is the OP this guy?

http://herdmycattle.com/lebron-james-is-better-than-michael-jordan/

It seems like it...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is the OP this guy?

http://herdmycattle.com/lebron-james-is-better-than-michael-jordan/

It seems like it...
Lebron fans :roll: winning doesn't matter guys

[Richesly]

I watched MJ play..


LeBron plays slightly better defense, rebounds way better, and is a much better passer and playmaker.

I'd say It's a tie.

[HurricaneKid]

The fact this thread exists is evidence that we need reps back. A lot of stupid things have been said of late, this one is high among them.

[brahmabull117]

You can talk about MJ's achievements and all that. But in terms of who is the better overall player? Its Lebron. Nothing about Jordan's game to sticks out as showing me he was better individual basketball player than Lebron.




Jordan averaged 33 points per game in the NBA finals and was undefeated


Lebron has averaged 20 points per game in the finals and is winless in 2 tries



GTFO

[gengiskhan]

I watched MJ play..


LeBron plays better defense, rebounds way better, and is a much better passer and playmaker.

I'd say It's a tie.

son

you may have watched MJ played but at the time MJ was 33 well past his prime.

try watching MJ at 23. MJ got twice the game & skills lebron has now.

you dont average 32.5ppg/8rpg/8apg for all 82 games unless you're a GOAT & still loose regular sea MVP.

compare to LBJ's 2 MVP seasons, MJ's 1989 stats will easily beat him.

[RRR3]

+1.

That's the problem with LeBron... He's got all the talent in the world that he should just embrace his role as the "bad guy"... Not try to please everybody.

And history has already been written as such, we have seen signs of LeBron mentally checking out of series (2010 vs Boston; 2011 vs Dallas, just the most recent examples)...

How does LeBron, in his prime, get outplayed by a teammates in Wade if he's the better individual overall player ? Jordan NEVER let that happen in the Finals (and in the playoffs, that rarely even happened to Jordan...) that he was determined to destroy his opponents but also show who runs things on his teams.

Another thing, Jordan in 5 of his 6 Finals, faced either the runner up or league MVP (1991 Magic, 1992 Drexler, 1993 Barkley, 1997 and 1998 Malone) and showed them who was the best player in the series, regardless of who won the MVP or who the media believed was "close".

In two Finals, LeBron let Duncan's Spurs add to their legacy (though their team was outmatched) and Dirk's Mavs bring the first ever title to Dallas (but they had the better team this time).

Jordan stops players from winning it all and at all costs, putting up legendary finals numbers; LeBron as so far shown the opposite, putting up Record lows in his overall PPG.
What do you mean he "let" the Spurs? :facepalm LeBron did everything he could in that series, in fact he might have forced the issue by shooting so much. Tired of LBJ getting flack for that and 09 vs Magic. Blast him for last year, sure, but stop acting like that has been a regular occurrence throughout his career because it hasn't.

[brahmabull117]

son

you may have watched MJ played but at the time MJ was 33 well past his prime.

try watching MJ at 23. MJ got twice the game & skills lebron has now.

you dont average 32.5ppg/8rpg/8apg for all 82 games unless you're a GOAT & still loose regular sea MVP.

compare to LBJ's 2 MVP seasons, MJ's 1989 stats will easily beat him.


the only thing that we need to argue here is that Jordan was 6-0 in the finals and lebron is 0-2 in the finals

[brahmabull117]

What do you mean he "let" the Spurs? :facepalm LeBron did everything he could in that series, in fact he might have forced the issue by shooting so much. Tired of LBJ getting flack for that and 09 vs Magic. Blast him for last year, sure, but stop acting like that has been a regular occurrence throughout his career because it hasn't.



He had awful numbers in that series against the spurs



GTFO

[bwink23]

I watched MJ play..


LeBron plays slightly better defense, rebounds way better, and is a much better passer and playmaker.

I'd say It's a tie.


I've watched prime Jordan at his peak and Lebron....prime Jordan was clearly the better player....i'd even take 30's Jordan over Lebron right now.

[RRR3]

He had awful numbers in that series against the spurs



GTFO
Yes, he should have been able to win 1-on-5. Even MJ wouldn't have beat the Spurs with that putrid supporting cast around him (in no way do I think LBJ is better or even equal to MJ btw).

[SilkkTheShocker]

I watched MJ play..


LeBron plays slightly better defense, rebounds way better, and is a much better passer and playmaker.


This guy gets it :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

What do you mean he "let" the Spurs? :facepalm LeBron did everything he could in that series, in fact he might have forced the issue by shooting so much. Tired of LBJ getting flack for that and 09 vs Magic. Blast him for last year, sure, but stop acting like that has been a regular occurrence throughout his career because it hasn't.

If you re-read my post, they had the worse team...

And I've said 2010 and 2011 he checked out mentally.

[RRR3]

If you re-read my post, they had the worse team...
Then he didn't "let the Spurs win", now did he? :no:

[Legends66NBA7]

Then he didn't "let the Spurs win", now did he? :no:

Sure he did. Watch that series again.

He could have done much better than that. And Jordan would have done much better in LeBron's positions, IMO.

[Heavincent]

Yes, he should have been able to win 1-on-5. Even MJ wouldn't have beat the Spurs with that putrid supporting cast around him (in no way do I think LBJ is better or even equal to MJ btw).

He could have at least played better. He shot like 36% in that series.

There was no way he could have won that series, but it's about putting up a good performance, which he definitely didn't do.

[RRR3]

Sure he did. Watch that series again.
:facepalm :hammerhead: :hammerhead: So if LeBron wanted to win, he could have beat the Spurs dynasty w/ Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic? :roll: :facepalm

[RRR3]

He could have at least played better. He shot like 36% in that series.
Probably because he was the only scoring option on his team and had no jumpshot at the time. Also SPurs were a legendary defensive team

[Legends66NBA7]

:facepalm :hammerhead: :hammerhead: So if LeBron wanted to win, he could have beat the Spurs dynasty w/ Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic? :roll: :facepalm

Well I guess he's not the overall player we thought he was.

I mean he beat the Pistons, didn't he ? I never really got that logic... The Pistons weren't that far gone from their prime... they had damn great overall team too.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes, he should have been able to win 1-on-5. Even MJ wouldn't have beat the Spurs with that putrid supporting cast around him (in no way do I think LBJ is better or even equal to MJ btw).
22 ppg on 35.6%

and he's still making excuses :facepalm
Just admit your boy was garbage

[RRR3]

Well I guess he's not the overall player we thought he was.

I mean he beat the Pistons, didn't he ?
The Pistons weren't as good a team and it's amazing he beat the Pistons in the first place. This is LBJ at 21 before he had a good jumpshot, before he was a great defender. This is basically like Derrick Rose last year, except with a WORSE team. No one criticizes Rose. This wasn't the LeBron of today, he was very raw still and less of a player.

[RRR3]

22 ppg on 35.6%

and he's still making excuses :facepalm
Just admit your boy was garbage
When did I say LeBron was good in that series? :rolleyes: He shot like shit, no duh. I was arguing the point that he didn't try to win that series. Pretty sure you don't blame Kobe for 04, right? :rolleyes:

[brahmabull117]

Yes, he should have been able to win 1-on-5. Even MJ wouldn't have beat the Spurs with that putrid supporting cast around him (in no way do I think LBJ is better or even equal to MJ btw).




Give me a fukking break, Jordan played on some absolutely awful teams in his prime early in his career and still scored like 35 ppg on 52% shooting


and what's the excuse for him failing last year?? not enough supporting cast playing with 2 other all stars?? :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

Give me a fukking break, Jordan played on some absolutely awful teams in his prime early in his career and still scored like 35 ppg on 52% shooting


and what's the excuse for him failing last year?? not enough supporting cast playing with 2 other all stars?? :rolleyes:
No excuses for last year, dumbass, which I said. Last year was LeBron's fault, never denied it. 2007 wasn't, I don't consider a 21 year old player who is already a superstar, shocking the league by getting a horrible team to the finals and then losing to the dynasty Spurs a "failure".

Also,
1. Jordan is better than LBJ (and every other player in history), not a fair comparison.
2. Jordan didn't make the finals w/ a crappy team last time I checked so again not a fair comparison

[brahmabull117]

When did I say LeBron was good in that series? :rolleyes: He shot like shit, no duh. I was arguing the point that he didn't try to win that series. Pretty sure you don't blame Kobe for 04, right? :rolleyes:


Jordan played on a lot of mediocre teams before the bulls were good and routinely averaged about 35 ppg with about 52% FG in the playoffs when teams schemed to stop him



talk to me when Lebron scores 35 ppg on 52% FG in the finals

[Deuce Bigalow]

When did I say LeBron was good in that series? :rolleyes: He shot like shit, no duh. I was arguing the point that he didn't try to win that series. Pretty sure you don't blame Kobe for 04, right? :rolleyes:
Just say that Lebron has been totally garbage in his 2 finals performances, and that it wasn't his teammates fault, and that he doesn't deserve to even have his name in the same sentence as Jordan's

[Heavincent]

The thing is, nobody was expecting him to win the 07 Finals, people just expected him to perform a lot better than he did.

[RRR3]

Jordan played on a lot of mediocre teams before the bulls were good and routinely averaged about 35 ppg with about 52% FG in the playoffs when teams schemed to stop him



talk to me when Lebron scores 35 ppg on 52% FG in the finals
You keep acting as if I'm arguing that LeBron is as good as/better than Jordan when I keep saying I'm not. :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Legends66NBA7]

The Pistons weren't as good a team and it's amazing he beat the Pistons in the first place. This is LBJ at 21 before he had a good jumpshot, before he was a great defender. This is basically like Derrick Rose last year, except with a WORSE team. No one criticizes Rose. This wasn't the LeBron of today, he was very raw still and less of a player.

I critcized Rose a lot for the loss to the Heat. So did other Bulls fans (was listening to Bruce Blitz's podcast and he was ripping him apart during that loss of that series).

LeBron was still putting up some elite numbers that year and that Pistons team was supposed to meet the Spurs in the Finals.

I have to be fair and criticize each player accordingly. But since I may have been to forced with "let", I'll change that too the team, since teams do win and lose together.

But LeBron wasn't great and I have to call him out for it... and especially in an arguement like this...

[knickswin]

this is such a stupid debate. of course jordan was a better player than lebron. i hate michael jordan but he was unbelievable. there's never been a guy who was so clearly the best player on the court every single time he played a playoff game.

[Heavincent]

was listening to Bruce Blitz's podcast and was ripping him


Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop right there. Why were you listening to Bruce Blitz? :lol

[Legends66NBA7]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop right there. Why were you listening to Bruce Blitz? :lol

I don't usually listen to him, but I wanted to see his reaction (since his team lost).

Dude went HAM.

[RRR3]

I critcized Rose a lot for the loss to the Heat. So did other Bulls fans (was listening to Bruce Blitz's podcast and he was ripping him apart during that loss of that series).

LeBron was still putting up some elite numbers that year and that Pistons team was supposed to meet the Spurs in the Finals.

I have to be fair and criticize each player accordingly. But since I may have been to forced with "let", I'll change that too the team, since teams to win and lose together.

But LeBron wasn't great and I have to call him out for it... and especially in an arguement like this...
I didn't deny LeBron was bad against the Spurs, I just think it's stupid to consider his performance as a negative on his career. This isn't like last year when LeBron was expected to win and played passively, he was expected to lose and he at least wasn't afraid to shoot (his main criticism last year). LeBron didn't shoot that well against the Pistons outside of his amazing game 5 FYI

[brahmabull117]

No excuses for last year, dumbass, which I said. Last year was LeBron's fault, never denied it. 2007 wasn't, I don't consider a 21 year old player who is already a superstar, shocking the league by getting a horrible team to the finals and then losing to the dynasty Spurs a "failure".


Jordan averaged 29 ppg and then 44 ppg as a 21/22 year old in the playoffs on some pretty bad bulls teams

GTFO



Also,
1. Jordan is better than LBJ (and every other player in history), not a fair comparison.

he's miles better than LBJ



2. Jordan didn't make the finals w/ a crappy team last time I checked so again not a fair comparison

what difference does it make if he played in the 1st round or the NBA finals??


Jordan played on some awful bulls teams in playoffs against tough competition and put up monster monster numbers


there is absolutely no excuse for scoring 22 ppg on 35% fg and then scoring 20 ppg last year. Put prime Jordan on those 2 teams and he would have won the championship in both cases (not a doubt in my mind)


People forget how close the games were in the San Antonio series - if LBJ just scores 26 ppg on 44% shooting, they would have likely won it all that year

[brahmabull117]

You keep acting as if I'm arguing that LeBron is as good as/better than Jordan when I keep saying I'm not. :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:



then wtf are you arguing??



Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LBJ

[RRR3]

Jordan averaged 29 ppg and then 44 ppg as a 21/22 year old in the playoffs on some pretty bad bulls teams

GTFO




he's miles better than LBJ




what difference does it make if he played in the 1st round or the NBA finals??


Jordan played on some awful bulls teams in playoffs against tough competition and put up monster monster numbers


there is absolutely no excuse for scoring 22 ppg on 35% fg and then scoring 20 ppg last year. Put prime Jordan on those 2 teams and he would have won the championship in both cases (not a doubt in my mind)


People forget how close the games were in the San Antonio series - if LBJ just scores 26 ppg on 44% shooting, they would have likely won it all that year
1. Stop bringing up last year, I'm not arguing that LeBron choked last year:facepalm
2. Stop saying "MJ>LeBron", I ****ING kNOW YOU DUMBASS. Jesus christ I'm not arguing that.
3. I never said MJ wouldn't do better, I said I doubt even he could win with that supporting cast.

[tontoz]

Im at the prime age to comment on this as I saw all of Mikes career and all of Lebrons. Even as a lifelong Bulls fan I will concede that Bron is a better.....passer. In no other category does he touch Mike.

.

Seriously not only was Jordan a better scorer but he was also 1st Team All-NBA defense 9 times. His career playoff average was 33 ppg.

Kids these days....:facepalm

[RRR3]

then wtf are you arguing??



Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LBJ
I'm arguing against LeBron's performance against the Spurs in 2007 being...
A.) A negative on his career ledger
B.) A series in which he "gave up"

[Legends66NBA7]

I didn't deny LeBron was bad against the Spurs, I just think it's stupid to consider his performance as a negative on his career. This isn't like last year when LeBron was expected to win and played passively, he was expected to lose and he at least wasn't afraid to shoot (his main criticism last year). LeBron didn't shoot that well against the Pistons outside of his amazing game 5 FYI

Agreed, although because of this scenario (And OP being a jackass), I got to put LeBron under the microscope...

If it was Kobe, Wade, etc... same thing is going to happen.

That's the thing with Jordan, he's inarguably the GOAT playoff performer and find it hilarious that people still try to say that there are individuals "better" than him today... ignorning such things as the massive rule changes for perimeter friendly defense, or the mental edge, off ball game, etc...

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm arguing against LeBron's performance against the Spurs in 2007 being...
A.) A negative on his career ledger
B.) A series in which he "gave up"

I would have to say it is a negative, no matter how you slice it, IMO.

I don't think he gave up that series, though.

[brahmabull117]

3. I never said MJ wouldn't do better, I said I doubt even he could win with that supporting cast.



Complete and Utter nonsense



they lost a bunch of close games



you don't think MJ could have scored 30 on 45-50% FG shooting??? that would have been more than enough to win it all

[RRR3]

Agreed, although because of this scenario (And OP being a jackass), I got to put LeBron under the microscope...

If it was Kobe, Wade, etc... same thing is going to happen.

That's the thing with Jordan, he's inarguably the GOAT playoff performer and find it hilarious that people still try to say that there are individuals "better" than him today... ignorning such things as the massive rule changes for perimeter friendly defense, or the mental edge, off ball game, etc...
Yeah, well, just because the OP overrates LBJ massively, doesn't mean it's okay to underrate him massively (which most of ISH does anyways). Also, just because someone is a LBJ fan (in this case me) doesn't mean we can't say when he fails (2010 against Boston is debatable IMO, last year he failed for sure obviously) or that there are better players than him.

[WillC]

OP is probably 15 years old and has never seen mj play

This.

[RRR3]

I would have to say it is a negative, no matter how you slice it, IMO.

I don't think he gave up that series, though.
Everyone has had series like that, first of all, it's amazing LBJ got them to the Finals (IDGAF how "Weak" the East was, that Cavs team was trash, this wasn't the Cavs of 09 and 10), and I don't remember ANYONE criticizing him at all back then, because
A.) LBJ wasn't widely considered the best player in the NBA then so less expectations
B.) LBJ was generally liked as opposed to today when people rewrite his career to fit their agendas

[Heavincent]

Yeah, well, just because the OP overrates LBJ massively, doesn't mean it's okay to underrate him massively (which most of ISH does anyways).

The ****? I guess you haven't seen the countless threads where a shitload of people call Lebron the best player in the league. He's not underrated at all.

[RRR3]

Complete and Utter nonsense



they lost a bunch of close games



you don't think MJ could have scored 30 on 45-50% FG shooting??? that would have been more than enough to win it all
You're assuming MJ gets them to the Finals.

[zac]

ITT: OP born in 1997

[RRR3]

The ****? I guess you haven't seen the countless threads where a shitload of people call Lebron the best player in the league. He's not underrated at all.
LeBron is the best player in the league, the fact that we have so many people arguing about it proves my point.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, well, just because the OP overrates LBJ massively, doesn't mean it's okay to underrate him massively (which most of ISH does anyways). Also, just because someone is a LBJ fan (in this case me) doesn't mean we can't say when he fails (2010 against Boston is debatable IMO, last year he failed for sure obviously) or that there are better players than him.

Well I don't feel I am underrating him, I'm just stating it's not as close as stats or even fals claims say he is compared to Jordan...

Offcourse you have a right to your opinion... I mean everything is nearly debatable in some cases...

[brahmabull117]

You're assuming MJ gets them to the Finals.



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Jordan was the most dominant playoff performer of all time - of course they would have gotten to the finals



Hell, I would imagine Jordan would have won 2 or 3 ring with Lebron's cavs

[Legends66NBA7]

You're assuming MJ gets them to the Finals.

Under those rules, it would be interesting to see who would stop a 4th year Jordan...

Dude would have wrecked the league...

[RRR3]

Well I don't feel I am underrating him, I'm just stating it's not as close as stats or even fals claims say he is compared to Jordan...

Offcourse you have a right to your opinion... I mean everything is nearly debatable in some cases...
Saying a 21 year old LBJ before he could shoot or play defense "let" the spurs win is underrating him, that's all I've been arguing before a few idiots somehow interpreted that as me saying "LBJ is GOAT" :facepalm

[RRR3]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Jordan was the most dominant playoff performer of all time - of course they would have gotten to the finals



Hell, I would imagine Jordan would have won 2 or 3 ring with Lebron's cavs
Fine MJ Would have swept the SPurs, and averaged 100000 PPG on 200% shooting. LeBron is the worst player ever and should be in the D League. Happy? Now stop ****ing spamming me you ******.

[Legends66NBA7]

Saying a 21 year old LBJ before he could shoot or play defense "let" the spurs win is underrating him, that's all I've been arguing before a few idiots somehow interpreted that as me saying "LBJ is GOAT" :facepalm

I've already changed my view on "let" and I see your point.

[SilkkTheShocker]

ITT: OP born in 1997


You live in Tennesee. Did you take break from your meth lab to post that?

[zizozain]

lol

[brahmabull117]

Fine MJ Would have swept the SPurs, and averaged 100000 PPG on 200% shooting. LeBron is the worst player ever and should be in the D League. Happy? Now stop ****ing spamming me you ******.


you're trying to excuse a so called superstar for scoring 22 pg on 35% FG on the biggest stage in the sport


dumbass


Jordan averaged 43 PPG on a mediocre bulls team in the playoffs in his 2nd season in the league

[Deuce Bigalow]

InB4 someone makes a "I dont believe Jordan was a better player than Kobe" thread

[-p.tiddy-]

no one old enough to have watched Jordan would say that...not even Bron's biggest fans

[-p.tiddy-]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm6yykZAZh1qfocge.gif
:lol

[Legends66NBA7]

You live in Tennesee. Did you take break from your meth lab to post that?

Are you going refute anything that's been posted here that's in Jordan's favor or are you going find more things to distracte yourself ?

[TheMan]

You're assuming MJ gets them to the Finals.
Well considering MJ>LBJ, and taking into account MJs habit of playing his best in the biggest games, it's safe to assume that if LBJ was good enough to lead the Cavs to the Finals, why wouldnt MJ?

[BarberSchool]

Someone with the username of a embarassingly corny, moronic Bamma rapper can't be expected to make threads that aren't embarassingly stupid.


Jordan was never a better player than LeBron

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbdz3b2t9h1qzmowao1_400.jpg

[RRR3]

Well considering MJ>LBJ, and taking into account MJs habit of playing his best in the biggest games, it's safe to assume that if LBJ was good enough to lead the Cavs to the Finals, why wouldnt MJ?
Last thing I say in this thread...
Because I don't see MJ passing nearly as much on that team as LBJ did and it would be even more of a one-man show. I never said MJ couldn't win with that team, but he had teams like that in his career and didn't win with them. I know MJ is the GOAT, don't lump me with the OP. The thing I was arguing with was LeBron being blamed for 2007, and I have explained why I felt so already.

[Fudge]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://h.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9060295.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

Silkk isn't from Alabama :oldlol:

Go sit in the corner now.

[BarberSchool]

Silkk isn't from Alabama :oldlol:

Go sit in the corner now."Bamma" is a term for any ignorant shucking and jiving ignorant country-@ss nicca.

Go sit your stupid "LeBron james is better than Mike"-uttering @ss in the d@mn corner.

[juju151111]

Last thing I say in this thread...
Because I don't see MJ passing nearly as much on that team as LBJ did and it would be even more of a one-man show. I never said MJ couldn't win with that team, but he had teams like that in his career and didn't win with them. I know MJ is the GOAT, don't lump me with the OP. The thing I was arguing with was LeBron being blamed for 2007, and I have explained why I felt so already.
Lj played garbage ass teams in 07. W

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lol u wouldn't say that to my face so you talk trash online

[chips93]

Lol u wouldn't say that to my face so you talk trash online

and i hope for your sake that you dont say this kind of BS in real life.

[ILLsmak]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://h.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9060295.jpg

hahaha

-Smak

[chazzy]

You're assuming MJ gets them to the Finals.
That Cavs squad was an elite defensive team and below average offensive team. MJ would've been fine

[SilkkTheShocker]

That Cavs squad was an elite defensive team and below average offensive team. MJ would've been fine

You don't really believe that.

[Calabis]

You don't really believe that.

Please explain everything Lebron does better than MJ? Seriously, what in your opinion does he do better than MJ

[Lebron23]

Lol u wouldn't say that to my face so you talk trash online


Who are you?

[RedBlackAttack]

Who are you?
A guy looking for attention and receiving it in spades.

Board,
Is there an actual discussion going on here or should I just close this stupid thread?

[Lebron23]

Just close or delete this stupid thread.

[chazzy]

You don't really believe that.
I don't believe what? They were factually the 4th best defensive team and 18th best offensive team. And that was before Lebron was considered an elite defensive player

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You don't really believe that.

Try refuting some of the posts directed at you, helmet head.

[Legends66NBA7]

You don't really believe that.

Jordan would be much better in today's relaxed rules of perimeter defense, especially we are talking about 4th season Jordan...

You know ? The year he won defensive player of the year ? Won MVP ? Averaged arguably his greatest statistical season both basic and advanced metric wise ?

What's to think he wouldn't be fine ? There would be none during the 06-07 season that would have stopped Jordan on both ends of the floor... none.

[Jasper]

Where the **** is my neg?

I defend LeBron a lot, but dude, this is some wack shit.


and 1

[Legends66NBA7]

A guy looking for attention and receiving it in spades.

Board,
Is there an actual discussion going on here or should I just close this stupid thread?

Well we are using facts and logical discussion in this thread, but the OP keeps distracting himself or coming back with childish remarks.

There's nothing much that needs to be said really... unless the OP is going to come back to us with some sort of rebutal (unlikely happening), then:

/thread.

[TheMan]

A guy looking for attention and receiving it in spades.

Board,
Is there an actual discussion going on here or should I just close this stupid thread?
Go ahead and close/delete this moronic thread, this Silkk douchebag doesn't give any reasons why he thinks LBJ is better than MJ (I doubt he really that stupid, he's just trolling).

We would at least listen to what he has to szy id he had any evidence to baxk his claim but this moron ignores every stat other posters had presented to the contrary of his claim...he's just trolling because he leads a sad boring life between ISH and internet porn, he doean't have anything else to do in his mom's basement.


It's these idiots and with threads that make ISH a joke..impossible to have intelligent hoops talk with these dimwits.

[BarberSchool]

Lol u wouldn't say that to my face so you talk trash onlineI would. And you would cower and laugh it off. I'd treat you for as long as it was funny for saying such a stupid thing. And given that I stay in Chicago, the crowd around us would LOOOOOOVE such an epic roasting.

On the flipside of what you said, I'm a big@ss dude (6'4" 220) who would psychologically dominate you, and if you were stupid enough to physically attempt caveman honor, I'd have you on the floor close to death in several minutes.

Hush up. You just made a really dumb thread on Ish. Relish in your shame.

[HighFlyer23]

ISH: where f@ggots are ready to physically fight over a basketball debate

[RedBlackAttack]

The board has spoken.

Awful thread locked.

Attention seeking troll thwarted.