Noone Will be Impressed If Miami Wins a Title This year....deal with it!!

[I.R.Beast]

Sorry Lebron fans. Noone will be surprised, or even moved if Miami wins a title this year. You LeBron fans are praying he gets this ring so that people won't have the no rings argument, but Who cares if he wins a ring playing on easily the best team in the league...Feauturing D Wade and Chris Bosh..top of the top 3-5 players at their position and wade being an Elite top 3-10 player in the league.


Aren't they sipposed to win with all that talent goin on?....It won't be impressive?....He will alwyas be viewed as a ring chaser that couldn't win without teaming up with the second best player in the league. and a top 5 PF.

[dunksby]

None will care if you are impressed with their title or not so you better STFU about it already.

[I.R.Beast]

None will care if you are impressed with their title or not so you better STFU about it already.

its the truth dont get but hurt about it.....it's championship or bust for this team and u know it. Easily the best team in the league when they get thrown out of the playoffs this year i cant wait for the excuses...

[dunksby]

its the truth dont get but hurt about it.....it's championship or bust for this team and u know it. Easily the best team in the league when they get thrown out of the playoffs this year i cant wait for the excuses...
Why would I get butthurt about it? I'm an OKC fan and Heat not winning it means more chance that we win it, but I did not expect a stupid troll to deduct that anyway.

[Pursuer]

I don't see what's so wrong about being championship or bust. Lakers were the favorites in 09 and 10(with the exception of people who were in love with LeBron) and no one said their titles were unimpressive.

[NumberSix]

Sorry Lebron fans. Noone will be surprised, or even moved if Miami wins a title this year. You LeBron fans are praying he gets this ring so that people won't have the no rings argument, but Who cares if he wins a ring playing on easily the best team in the league...Feauturing D Wade and Chris Bosh..top of the top 3-5 players at their position and wade being an Elite top 3-10 player in the league.


Aren't they sipposed to win with all that talent goin on?....It won't be impressive?....He will alwyas be viewed as a ring chaser that couldn't win without teaming up with the second best player in the league. and a top 5 PF.
Sipposed?

[LakersReign]

I don't see what's so wrong about being championship or bust. Lakers were the favorites in 09 and 10(with the exception of people who were in love with LeBron) and no one said their titles were unimpressive.


It's not even close to being the same thing, so just stop reaching:facepalm

[Kobe 4 The Win]

But they are winning it this year.

If they win 2 or 3 titles most people will stop hating and jump on the bandwagon. In 5 years 50% of the world will declare Lebron the GOAT. This is how the NBA works. Only the die-hard Lebron haters will try to come up with excuses and try to diminish the value of his titles. The same thing happened with Kobe and it's pointless.

I'm a Kobe/Lakers fan. I don't need to diminish the other guy to feel good about my guy. I try to enjoy the game and have a little fun sh*ting on Lebron every once in a while. Lebron will eventually win and his legacy will end up just fine.

[IamRAMBO24]

I would.

So the argument "Noone would be impressed .. " is already fallacious.

:oldlol:

[All Net]

Easily the best team in the league


when they get thrown out of the playoffs this year i cant wait for the excuses...

Yeah that makes zero sense...

If Miami is easily the best team they will win it all period.

Stupid thread really, doesn't mean anything if you or any other person isn't impressed by them winning it all... if they win thats all that matters. What people think about it won't matter.

[IamRAMBO24]

How do you sipposed noone would care when many people are sipposing the heat would would win? I sippose many people would be impressed.

[Lebron23]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DRose1899]

Gay statement.

[madmax]

oh, so you would be unimpressed when the best teams win the title?:lol
I guess those 6 rings by Jordan don't mean anything too, since he played on the best teams as well, huh?

[insidehoops]

So if the Heat win a championship it's not impressive, and if they don't win a championship they are lousy failures?

So it's lose-lose for the Heat no matter what they do?

That seems unfair.

[Sakkreth]

Noone is impressed by his usual statline of 30/8/7 either. He's that good.

[LakersReign]

People are saying them winning a title won't be impressive cuz Lebron was forcefed to us as supposed the next Jordan, but lacks the work ethic and dedication it takes to win. He bailed on the Cavs the minute his contract was up, to go to somebody else's team to try and win a title. Jordan spent a few years on the Bulls losing as well, but he didn't quit and go to the Celtics or Lakers. You can't call a guy the next Jordan, hype him up to the nth degree as such. And then have him not live up to that hype. Had he stayed with the Cavs, and won a title with them, then that would've been way more impressive or Jordanesque, than going to the Heat.

[Lebron23]

People are saying them winning a title won't be impressive cuz Lebron was forcefed to us as supposed the next Jordan, but lacks the work ethic and dedication it takes to win. He bailed on the Cavs the minute his contract was up, to got to somebody else's team to try and win a title. Jordan spent a few years on the Bulls losing as well, but he didn't quit and go to the Celtics or Lakers. You can't call a guy the next Jordan, hype him up to the nth degree as such. And then have him not live up to that hype. Had he stayed with the Cavs, and won a title with them, then that would've been way more Jordanesque, than going to the Heat, while still expecting people to call you the next Jordan.

Can you please stop posting in this forum? You are a horrible poster.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239015

[Lebron23]

Noone is impressed by his usual statline of 30/8/7 either. He's that good.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[LakersReign]

Can you please stop posting in this forum? You are a horrible poster.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239015

Typical Lebronite, can't stand hearing the truth about Lebron. Just gotta love it how I'm supposed to leave since he's cryin', cuz I said bad things about Lebron:roll:


CRY LITTLE GIRL(lebron23)!!!!:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Kblaze8855]

People are gonna lose their minds if Lebron wins a ring. Millions will care and in time people wont even be aware of the team situation. In a few years kids who are 12 now will be 18 and all over this place with virtually no memory of the decision with Lebron having been the best player in the NBA much of the time since they were 8. Lebron will get the love just like everyone else who won on stacked teams. Including teams better than the Heat. How they came together doesnt matter on the floor. They will get the same longterm credit everyone else does if they win. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.

The only people looking to hate will be a generation that will be passed up here shortly.

People think their opinions matter a lot more than they do. Longterm pretty much all legends get credit for whatever they did no matter what. I hate Karl Malone. Doesnt mean a bunch of 20 year olds arent on here ranking him over ____ when they didnt even see him play.

Soon the 20 year olds will be the kids in middle school right now who were getting ready for bed during the decision and watching Monday Night Raw during the 2010 playoffs.

The hate will become what the hate for everyone becomes.

A memory held only in the minds of fans who become a smaller and smaller minority.

Such is life. Lebron wins on the Heat it will only not matter to a bunch of angry people at exactly the right age to care. History will compare it to a lot of title teams with more talent and Lebron will be ranked with all the others.

He knew it. Winning, highlights, and numbers are all history remembers.

The haters on ISH will matter as much as the people who made Ali(according to some reports) the most hated man in America in the late 60s. Lets not go into Lebron/Ali comparisons as clearly that isnt my intent.

Just saying....nobody is hated for all that long. Especially people who didnt actually do anything morally wrong for the world to look down on.

If the Heat win a few rings Lebrons HOF induction is gonna be an ESPN special with 45 minutes of praise as a gang of 25 year olds see clips of the Decision and barely remember their uncles being pissed off when they were 8.

[All Net]

People are saying them winning a title won't be impressive cuz Lebron was forcefed to us as supposed the next Jordan, but lacks the work ethic and dedication it takes to win. He bailed on the Cavs the minute his contract was up, to go to somebody else's team to try and win a title. Jordan spent a few years on the Bulls losing as well, but he didn't quit and go to the Celtics or Lakers. You can't call a guy the next Jordan, hype him up to the nth degree as such. And then have him not live up to that hype. Had he stayed with the Cavs, and won a title with them, then that would've been way more impressive or Jordanesque, than going to the Heat.

I don't see why this needs to be about MJ...there is no next MJ.

If Lebron thought he could see himself winning a title in Cleveland he would of stayed. I certainly don't think it was down to lack of trying to get more talent there but it is a hard place to get guys to come play there....

He spend 7 great seasons there and thought he needed to move on to win titles and he was right. But the way he did it was disrespectful and wrong.

In the long run I see it working out best for both parties.

Lebron was never going to win titles with a guy like Mo Williams as his 2nd best player and the rest being just pretty good role players. His teams overacheived in the regular season that made them look better than they were.

It was a great effort to get back to back 60 win seasons there with what they had to work with.

If Lebron had Chris Bosh as his 2nd option there things could of been different and he would likely still be there.

[LakersReign]

I don't see why this needs to be about MJ...there is no next MJ.

If Lebron thought he could see himself winning a title in Cleveland he would of stayed. I certainly don't think it was down to lack of trying to get more talent there but it is a hard place to get guys to come play there....

He spend 7 great seasons there and thought he needed to move on to win titles and he was right. But the way he did it was disrespectful and wrong.

In the long run I see it working out best for both parties.

ANYBODY who really knows ANYTHING about basketball, already knows they'll never be a next MJ. Given the fact that every person who's been put in that mold has been a miserable failure and sheer disappointment. Remember Harold "Baby Jordan" Miner?! My point is regardless, that how he was sold to us, and like all the others, he's been a disappoinment. It wouldn't have been so hard on him, if he didn't run with that hype. Lebron is Lebron, that's it. No next Jordan, just simply Lebron. But he and his "team" decided it was a good idea to call him "king" and what not, and it plain out backfired. I don't buy the "oh, Cleveland sucked and he had to leave excuse," cuz if that team was that bad, then they would've never went 60+ games in back to back seasons.

Basketball is a business, and like any other business, if you and your business partners aren't seeing eye to eye on certain things, you call a meeting to find out what's up. Lebron never did that, he just plain out bailed. John Stockton and Karl Malone kept losing in the playoffs. So did Patrick Ewing, and Reggie Miller, but none of them bailed on their teams, so why does Lebron gets a pass, when he was considered to be way better than those guys?! The fallout he's been getting now he brought on himself, cuz nobody told him and his team to embrace the whole next Jordan thing, when he has very little in common with Jordan. It's looks like he took the easy way out going to the Heat, regardless of how you look at it.

[Lebron23]

It's time to close this thread. This is not even thread worthy.

[chips93]

what an original thought OP, i dont think i have heard this argument before















:facepalm

[gabeh1018]

just like anyone you are entitled to your own opinion;however, you can't speak for the masses and say no one will be impressed. The only difference with Lebron is that he voluntarily left to go with a top player as opposed to players having them own their team. I would never diminish Kobe's rings, but he had arguably the greatest center of all time for his first 3 and he was the best SG in the league. Regardless, of having arguably the top 2 platyers in the league doesnt take away from their championships.

Same goes with so many of the teams that have ever won, think lakersa and celtics from the 80s. Yes you can knock Lebron for leaving but taht doesnt diminish winning.

[LakersReign]

It's time to close this thread. This is not even thread worthy.


But 6,0000000,00000,9345686,99923433,9944559 threads saying the same boring crap about Kobe over and over and over and over, is SOMEHOW threadworthy....right?!:rolleyes:


GTFOH!!!!:rant

[All Net]

I don't buy the "oh, Cleveland sucked and he had to leave excuse," cuz if that team was that bad, then they would've never went 60+ games in back to back seasons.


Thats the thing, how that happened in the first place was an amazing acheivement. They had no business winning what they did.

Nobody knows for sure if Lebron did sit down and suggest this or say Cavs needed to make moves for him to stay. Antawn Jamison was the fall back plan at the deadline of 2010....maybe if they did get Amare it could of changed alot...who knows.

Did he take the easy way out? who knows...maybe he did but still in going to Miami he got to play with quailty players while still being down as the best player...but he is in the mode of WIN no matter what...nothing else will be acceptable and he realises this. The pressure is at a alltime high and he must win titles here otherwise it will hurt his legacy and how people view him but I expect he will...he and his team is too good not to win 2-3 titles.

time will tell over the next few years I guess...

[brwnman]

Basketball is a business, and like any other business, if you and your business partners aren't seeing eye to eye on certain things, you call a meeting to find out what's up. Lebron never did that, he just plain out bailed. John Stockton and Karl Malone kept losing in the playoffs. So did Patrick Ewing, and Reggie Miller, but none of them bailed on their teams, so why does Lebron gets a pass, when he was considered to be way better than those guys?! The fallout he's been getting now he brought on himself, cuz nobody told him and his team to embrace the whole next Jordan thing, when he has very little in common with Jordan. It's looks like he took the easy way out going to the Heat, regardless of how you look at it.

How exactly did he bail? If basketball is a business, then he fulfilled his contractual obligations, gave everything he had with Cleveland, he didn't give up on his team. Once his contract was up, he was free to sign with any team he wanted, and he decided to leave the Cavaliers and join the Heat.

You can say he took the easy way out to win a championship, or any other complaint you may have with him, but he didn't bail. If anything, he made the smart decision, because with the way teams are stacked nowadays, he wouldn't be competing for a title...

[LakersReign]

Thats the thing, how that happened in the first place was an amazing acheivement. They had no business winning what they did.

Nobody knows for sure if Lebron did sit down and suggest this or say Cavs needed to make moves for him to stay. Antawn Jamison was the fall back plan at the deadline of 2010....maybe if they did get Amare it could of changed alot...who knows.

Did he take the easy way out? who knows...maybe he did but still in going to Miami he got to play with quailty players while still being down as the best player...but he is in the mode of WIN no matter what...nothing else will be acceptable and he realises this. The pressure is at a alltime high and he must win titles here otherwise it will hurt his legacy and how people view him but I expect he will...he and his team is too good not to win 2-3 titles.

time will tell over the next few years I guess...


I will agree he was the x-factor on that Cavs team, But i totally disagree with blaming them alone for the playoff eliminations. Lebron as team captain/leader was supposed to take his share of the blame too. But all his fans did was throw that Cavs team under their bus for their boy. IMO, Lebron has been catered to since he was in high school, so he's spoiled like that and wants everything to come easy for him. If he has to work for it, he "checks out" as can be seen in his games. That's why Boston and Dallas got in his head, they made him work for his. I say again, he brought all that pressure on himself by doing Cleveland so dirty, then was like "and what you gon do about it"?! Then sat there running him mouth about 8 titles, then "checks out" in the Finals. No other great in the NBA took the "easy" way to a title and won. Lebron won't be the first.


How exactly did he bail? If basketball is a business, then he fulfilled his contractual obligations, gave everything he had with Cleveland, he didn't give up on his team. Once his contract was up, he was free to sign with any team he wanted, and he decided to leave the Cavaliers and join the Heat.

You can say he took the easy way out to win a championship, or any other complaint you may have with him, but he didn't bail. If anything, he made the smart decision, because with the way teams are stacked nowadays, he wouldn't be competing for a title...

Ok...so what do you call promising a title to a team/city, and not delivering on that promise?! Like i said before basketball is a business. And in business you don't tell another businessman you're going to do something, and then turn right around and not do it, without any real explanation as to why you can't do it. If he really was serious about that promise, then he would've found a way to work it out with the Cavs organization. That's what trade exceptions, 3 team deals etc are for. Hell, he took a pay cut to go to Miami, so why couldn't he do the same for the Cavs?! Cuz he wanted to fulfill his contract and leave the first chance he got, ergo bailing on the Cavs....that's why.

[RazorBaLade]

So if the Heat win a championship it's not impressive, and if they don't win a championship they are lousy failures?

So it's lose-lose for the Heat no matter what they do?

That seems unfair.

The casuals won't care if he exceeds a few rings, but for us hardcore fans then yes it is a lose lose and always will be.

Whats unfair was 3 stars taking paycuts to play with each other. It's like challenging a guy in blackjack but you start with two kings. If we played 21 on the basis I start with 2 kings and you beat me once with a lucky draw on 21, then you lose to me 10 times in a row because I'm getting 20 every time and standing...... Was I not pathetic for losing and the wins being completely unimpressive?

[All Net]

I will agree he was the x-factor on that Cavs team, But i totally disagree with blaming them alone for the playoff eliminations. Lebron as team captain/leader was supposed to take his share of the blame too. But all his fans did was throw that Cavs team under their bus for their boy. IMO, Lebron has been catered to since he was in high school, so he's spoiled like that and wants everything to come easy for him. If he has to work for it, he "checks out" as can be seen in his games. That's why Boston and Dallas got in his head, they made him work for his. I say again, he brought all that pressure on himself by doing Cleveland so dirty, then was like "and what you gon do about it"?! Then sat there running him mouth about 8 titles, then "checks out" in the Finals. No other great in the NBA took the "easy" way to a title and won. Lebron won't be the first.

That whole 8 titles thing has really been taken to over the top. It was meant for the Miami fans and simply got out of hand on what for them was a such a big day. Looking back I know he must regret it as thats what alot of people talk about now if they don

[LakersReign]

That whole 8 titles thing has really been taken to over the top. It was meant for the Miami fans and simply got out of hand on what for them was a such a big day. Looking back I know he must regret it as thats what alot of people talk about now if they don’t win each year. Was a overreaction and stupid on Miami’s part.

I’m not saying Lebron shouldn’t get plenty of the blame or should get a free pass for what he did. However there was only so much one person could do with what he had...he did quit against Boston and choked vs Dallas and thats on him but certainly not everything should be....I still say the only year Lebron should of won was last year...I know some will disagree and say they were favourites in 09 or 10 but I don’t. Those teams had no business winning the championship and didn’t for a reason.


My thing about all that is, he should just learn how to shut the hell up sometimes. It wasn't just that, it was the whole vibe they had last year, like they'd already won the title and the season, playoffs and Finals were just a formality. With all that, yeah, he should've won, but like I said, whenever things do go easy for him, he "checks out." Lebron has had it relatively easy in his career, and IMO, the reason why he hasn't won yet is cuz of his reluctance to work hard for it. A lot of people want to knock Kobe's work ethic cuz they don't like him, but can you argue with the results? If Lebron had the same work ethic, he definitely would've won by now.

[Kblaze8855]

No other great in the NBA took the "easy" way to a title and won. Lebron won't be the first.

Other than Wilt who joined a Laker team that had made 7 finals already and had 2 MVP level players. He had a dispute with the 76ers ownership after the old owner passed away I believe and he said he wouldnt play for the new coach. He would only play for I think Hannum...or himself as player coach. Imagine the shit storm that would create today....

And of course Moses who signed with a 76ers team that made 3 finals already and became one of 4 all stars and 2 players with an MVP in the last 3 years. Won 65 games and a title. Not surprising when the MVP joins another recent MVP and several stars on a team that just lost in the finals.

And I guess maybe Oscar who refused to go to the Bullets when the Kings tried to trade him but did accept getting to play with Kareem. This was pre free agency. He was a royal/King for life unless he agreed to be traded(He had that in his contract I believe). He could have chosen to ride it out and go down with the ship. He decided to go play with the next big thing and latch onto Kareem so that trade he said yes to.

But for the most part fans are unaware of those things because people dont care for very long. Just...look at results.

[All Net]

My thing about all that is, he should just learn how to shut the hell up sometimes. It wasn't just that, it was the whole vibe they had last year, like they'd already won the title and the season, playoffs and Finals were just a formality. With all that, yeah, he should've won, but like I said, whenever things do go easy for him, he "checks out." Lebron has had it relatively easy in his career, and IMO, the reason why he hasn't won yet is cuz of his reluctance to work hard for it. A lot of people want to knock Kobe's work ethic cuz they don't like him, but can you argue with the results? If Lebron had the same work ethic, he definitely would've won by now.

Work ethic is something Kobe has over everybody and even as a huge Kobe fan I don't see him winning titles with the core Lebron had. There is only so much work ethic can get you. You need talent and balence to win titles...Lebron never had that no matter how much he let himself down at times.

I do agree at times Lebron needs to shut up and that does get more people talking and not in a good way. I think he does want to please his fans too much at times.

[Nash]

Lebron should injure either Wade or Bosh so that his haters can give him credit, huh?

[Nash]

The casuals won't care if he exceeds a few rings, but for us hardcore fans then yes it is a lose lose and always will be.

Whats unfair was 3 stars taking paycuts to play with each other. It's like challenging a guy in blackjack but you start with two kings. If we played 21 on the basis I start with 2 kings and you beat me once with a lucky draw on 21, then you lose to me 10 times in a row because I'm getting 20 every time and standing...... Was I not pathetic for losing and the wins being completely unimpressive?
So you're not impressed by Birds rings? Not impressed by Magic's, Kareem and Worthy's rings? You're not impressed by Kobe's rings with Shaq? Not impressed by the Boston's big 3's rings from 2008?

[derb2k2]

this whole thread is garbage. Yes, the Heat have talent, but what's talent when you don't have cohesiveness? You can have great players on the team but they can still fail to win if their opponenet plays more like a team. Didn't the Heat get beaten by a better "team" last year? Every player on that Mavs team put in good work in the Finals while the Heat were still struggling to find team rhythm. The Heat are looking more and more comfortable with each other this year. The haters are pathetic. I really hope the Heat win it this year. There will be so much anger and hate lol.

As a fan, I don't care what any other organization or person thinks. If your team wins it, you celebrate. F*ck all the haters

[Unstop]

everyone would luv to see miami win a championship without a stacked team.

it wouldnt surprise me if they win a championship this year, but a lot of basketball fans just hate the fact that this team was stacked. it was just a dickmove especially because of lebron.
i respected him when he played in CLE but after that, i hated him because it didnt feel right.
if he would leave miami , i would luv to see him winning a Cship too. with his potential he could ve carried a team by himself(and not with wade and bosh) but he had no balls and thats why people are disappointed.

anyway. miami has a great team.
bench players are decent too... but i guess its difficult to win it all this year. OKC and CHI are better than last year. Dal can still improve and become a relevant force. and a lot of other teams can win a series if they re hot...
but like OP said, i wouldnt be surprised. everyone with some basketball knowledge wouldbt be surprised. just homers and haters would say something different.

[LakersReign]

Work ethic is something Kobe has over everybody and even as a huge Kobe fan I don't see him winning titles with the core Lebron had. There is only so much work ethic can get you. You need talent and balence to win titles...Lebron never had that no matter how much he let himself down at times.

I do agree at times Lebron needs to shut up and that does get more people talking and not in a good way. I think he does want to please his fans too much at times.

IMO, Shaq dedcided to go play in Cleveland with Lebron. So that whole nobody wanted to play there myth went out the window then. I still say there's a reason why trade exceptions and such exists in the NBA. If talent was that lacking in Cleveland, then he should've brought it to the F.O. attention as their franchise player and go from there. Lebron is as believable as a villain, as Michael Cole is as a heel announcer on Monday Night Raw. this is just more of his "team's" doing. Telling him all that nonsense. What they need to tell him is simply to shut the hell up and just play. But they won't cuz he's really their only mealticket. And in that sense, he reminds me way too much of Allen Iverson. A whole lot of talent, but lacking the mental component to use it correctly.

[Rnbizzle]

Have your laugh now haters.. It's not like anyone will be talking about these kinds of things looking back at LBJ's and Wade's career. Look at the teams Magic, Bird and Jordan (yes, Jordan) played on. Those were stacked as hell and they are considered some of the GOATs.

[Kblaze8855]

IMO, Shaq dedcided to go play in Cleveland with Lebron. So that whole nobody wanted to play there myth went out the window then.

Im guessing you dont watch much TNT. shaq said 2 days ago while talking about steve Kerr that Steve "Traded me in the middle of the night" to the cavs. Kerr then said he called him at like 11 to let him know he was going to the Cavs. Shaq didnt just...decide to join the cavs. Kerr traded him. This was literally discussed by the two people in question on thursday.

[derb2k2]

Have your laugh now haters.. It's not like anyone will be talking about these kinds of things looking back at LBJ's and Wade's career. Look at the teams Magic, Bird and Jordan (yes, Jordan) played on. Those were stacked as hell and they are considered some of the GOATs.


exactly. You have to win with a team. Ofcourse individual talent can play a huge factor, but in the playoffs where everything slows down, teamwork is what will get you points.

[swi7ch]

Why is the OP talking about just one ring? MIA is locked to win at least 3x!

[pmj]

I really don't see the Heat as much more talented, if at all, than quite a few other teams. OKC, LAC, NYK, CHI all have MUCH more balanced rosters without any glaring needs.

Two out of their 3 main big men, Haslem and Anthony, are undersized, untalented overachievers. Their lack of talent or size very often becomes evident, especially Anthony, who even calling a "basketball player" is a stretch. My opinion of Bosh is pretty low too, considering how frequently he puts up stinkers and is wildly inefficient for many game stretches (shot like 39% for games 1-5 in the Finals).

I'm a Heat fan but I have serious doubts about if we can ever win with our big man rotation.

[Unstop]

Have your laugh now haters.. It's not like anyone will be talking about these kinds of things looking back at LBJ's and Wade's career. Look at the teams Magic, Bird and Jordan (yes, Jordan) played on. Those were stacked as hell and they are considered some of the GOATs.


me as a basketball fan will nevaaa forget those things^^
I dont know the situation with magic and the lakers back in the days...
but jordan didnt join a stacked team. u cant compare this with lebron,bosh and wade coming together and make sth out!?
i mean if im a miami fan i would denie those things (maybe) too...or lets say...i can understand why so many miami fans(maybe only ur homer fans) say sth like that... its correct trying to defend his own team, but sometimes u have to get real...and say some true words, looking back at everything what happened and u know if something was wrong or not.

maybe u can compare this with Boston but lebron and wade were 2 of the best players in the leaque with chris bosh leading his old team to the playoffs by himself...
srry but i didnt see sth like that before, thats why i couldnt respect those players and in the end miami

[pmj]

[QUOTE=Unstop]me as a basketball fan will nevaaa forget those things^^
I dont know the situation with magic and the lakers back in the days...
but jordan didnt join a stacked team. u cant compare this with lebron,bosh and wade coming together and make sth out!?
i mean if im a miami fan i would denie those things (maybe) too...or lets say...i can understand why so many miami fans(maybe only ur homer fans) say sth like that... its correct trying to defend his own team, but sometimes u have to get real...and say some true words, looking back at everything what happened and u know if something was wrong or not.

maybe u can compare this with Boston but lebron and wade were 2 of the best players in the leaque with chris bosh leading his old team to the playoffs by himself...
srry but i didnt see sth like that before, thats why i couldnt respect those players and in the end miami

[inclinerator]

lets take away duncans titles, shaqs titles

[All Net]

IMO, Shaq dedcided to go play in Cleveland with Lebron. So that whole nobody wanted to play there myth went out the window then. I still say there's a reason why trade exceptions and such exists in the NBA. If talent was that lacking in Cleveland, then he should've brought it to the F.O. attention as their franchise player and go from there. Lebron is as believable as a villain, as Michael Cole is as a heel announcer on Monday Night Raw. this is just more of his "team's" doing. Telling him all that nonsense. What they need to tell him is simply to shut the hell up and just play. But they won't cuz he's really their only mealticket. And in that sense, he reminds me way too much of Allen Iverson. A whole lot of talent, but lacking the mental component to use it correctly.

Thats hardly the same, when Shaq was what 37? he was also traded there...hardly had a choose in the matter anyway.

The Cleveland FO tried and tried hard to get guys to partner Lebron. They just didn't have the assets to do it...just was one of those things that didn't work out.

They tried to sign Redd, Joe Johnson and Ray Allen but got turned down...not much they could of done.

They offered Redd BIG money...

[All Net]

I'm a Heat fan but I have serious doubts about if we can ever win with our big man rotation.

You were two games away from a title last year and that was with Lebron playing badly and not having Much depth...Miller and Haslem are back heathly as well. Could Miami be better at center? Yes certainly but it won

[Unstop]

Didn't Jordan go down with a broken foot and miss a bunch of games, then Chicago got Pippen and Horace Grant in the draft the next year?

I mean if that happened to Lebron and he got some good lottery talent, I'm guessing he'd have stayed. It's dumb, but the best thing to happen if you get a star in the draft is for the team to suck (via that star getting injured or the team just sucking) so you can get more stars. Look what happened with OKC or the Clippers.

sounds true;)
i mean look at the knicks. team sucked and lin played some games and became a star^^, playing with team shaq now;) biggest bandwagon ever seen in the nba;)
but thats why i like dallas. everyone is getting minutes and have a chance to become a better player. playing with so many different players in real games makes u a better player and makes ur team strong. in the end of the season u can trade em for other good(cheaper) players^^
chandler, stevenson, butler ,barea were better after the season with dallas...getting big contracts on other teams and dallas get vince,odom,west for nothing...
cleveland was maybe a little bit unlucky with new pieces, trying to get vets to make lebron stay,...doenst work alone. but for real they had a good team chemistry. build everything around lebron and it worked pretty good

knicks looking better without stat and melo in the team...thats crazy isnt it? 2 great players doesnt make ur team better? and thats why cleveland was good back in the days and lebron had a chance of getting a Cship, they had chemistry. and thats what its all about in basketball, playing like a team.

b2t: miami has a really good chemistry...sometimes bron and wade doenst fit each other , but in the end both of em can decide games or kick asses^^

[pmj]

You were two games away from a title last year and that was with Lebron playing badly and not having Much depth...Miller and Haslem are back heathly as well. Could Miami be better at center? Yes certainly but it won’t stop them from winning it all.

So? Year to year situations are wildy different. Other teams are stronger too.

And to be honest, I think the struggles the Heat have/have had, with the random droughts we couldn't score for 5 min+ late in games, i.e. offensive execution, really come down to the Heat not having that relief valve of low post scoring, put backs and tip ins off misses, etc. that comes from having skilled big men. You can say whatever you want about Bosh, but he's NOT that.

Just my opinion of what's missing, and I think it'll happen again if not against Chicago or NY then against OKC. I hope I'm wrong but I like I said, serious doubts about a championship team with Joel Anthony as starting C.

[Lebron23]

You guys think that winning an NBA title is very easy. I don't think so. It's very difficult to win an NBA title in a 30 teams league. I don't even think that the current Heat are the most stacked team in NBA history. By the way LeBron is having the best season of his NBA Career. He's averaging 28 ppg on 56 FG%. MJ was the last player to averaged more than 25 ppg on 53 or more FG%.

[Lebron23]

lets take away duncans titles, shaqs titles


Let's take away Russells's titles too.

[Lebron23]

sounds true;)
i mean look at the knicks. team sucked and lin played some games and became a star^^, playing with team shaq now;) biggest bandwagon ever seen in the nba;)
but thats why i like dallas. everyone is getting minutes and have a chance to become a better player. playing with so many different players in real games makes u a better player and makes ur team strong. in the end of the season u can trade em for other good(cheaper) players^^
chandler, stevenson, butler ,barea were better after the season with dallas...getting big contracts on other teams and dallas get vince,odom,west for nothing...
cleveland was maybe a little bit unlucky with new pieces, trying to get vets to make lebron stay,...doenst work alone. but for real they had a good team chemistry. build everything around lebron and it worked pretty good

knicks looking better without stat and melo in the team...thats crazy isnt it? 2 great players doesnt make ur team better? and thats why cleveland was good back in the days and lebron had a chance of getting a Cship, they had chemistry. and thats what its all about in basketball, playing like a team.

b2t: miami has a really good chemistry...sometimes bron and wade doenst fit each other , but in the end both of em can decide games or kick asses^^

Mike brown is a horrible offensive coach. Just look at the current Lakers this year. The 2012 Lakers are still a more talented team than the 2009 and 2010 Cleveland, but they aren't even a top 3 teams in the Western Conference.

[Millennium X]

What ya'll fools bringing up the "Bird, Magic, Jordan" all had stacked teams argument don't realize is that not all "stacked" teams are created equal.

LeBron teamed up with two other legitimate #1 options. If anyone thinks Jordan had that kind of talent on his team, they know nothing about the game.

I'll repeat, not one but TWO #1 options. Bosh put up insane numbers in his last year with a bunch of scrubs in Toronto and carried them to a .500 record (look how bad they were the next year). He was considered unanimously a top 10 player when he wasn't sharing the ball with 2 other #1 guys.

And Wade is Wade, similar to Kobe in that he's a championship level #1 option swingman.

You think Jordan played with that?:roll:

Did Bird and Magic ever play on the same team? (relative to their peers, they were both top 3 players so it would be exactly like Wade/James teaming up)

There was nothing wrong with LeBron's decision. As a FREE agent, it was his right to play for whoever he wanted to. Just don't go around comparing his potential titles to those of guys like Jordan, when not only Jordan was a 10x better individual performer in the finals (100% winning rate, 6 finals mvps, absurd finals stats) but also needed far less help to win too.

[Unstop]

@pmj: i like bosh... but a center like chandler would ve been much better for miami...




You guys think that winning an NBA title is very easy. I don't think so. It's very difficult to win an NBA title in a 30 teams league. I don't even think that the current Heat are the most stacked team in NBA history. By the way LeBron is having the best season of his NBA Career. He's averaging 28 ppg on 56 FG%. MJ was the last player to averaged more than 25 ppg on 53 or more FG%.

true.
its not about the most stacked team in history, its about the way how they stacked this team. nobody have seen 3 of the best players teaming up like that and if u have players like lebron who was compared to MJ ,u normally expect him to play for a team like CLE till the end.
it was just disappointing...watch him leave instead of fighting for his Championship and maybe his legacy... i guess u know what i mean? i know some people have other oppinions...but thats what i feel when i watch him now. a guy throwing his legacy in leaving and teaming up with wades team. omg...with another guys team -.-

[Lebron23]

@pmj: i like bosh... but a center like chandler would ve been much better for miami...





true.
its not about the most stacked team in history, its about the way how they stacked this team. nobody have seen 3 of the best players teaming up like that and if u have players like lebron who was compared to MJ ,u normally expect him to play for a team like CLE till the end.
it was just disappointing...watch him leave instead of fighting for his Championship and maybe his legacy... i guess u know what i mean? i know some people have other oppinions...but thats what i feel when i watch him now. a guy throwing his legacy in leaving and teaming up with wades team. omg...with another guys team -.-


LeBron is the Heat's undisputed best player this season. Wade's numbers went down because of his injuries. LeBron would have been the next KG if he had stayed in Cleveland. No Big time NBA Free Agents want to play in Cleveland. That's the reality of life. All of those Superstars or All star players wants to play on a big market team.

[All Net]

So? Year to year situations are wildy different. Other teams are stronger too.

And to be honest, I think the struggles the Heat have/have had, with the random droughts we couldn't score for 5 min+ late in games, i.e. offensive execution, really come down to the Heat not having that relief valve of low post scoring, put backs and tip ins off misses, etc. that comes from having skilled big men. You can say whatever you want about Bosh, but he's NOT that.

Just my opinion of what's missing, and I think it'll happen again if not against Chicago or NY then against OKC. I hope I'm wrong but I like I said, serious doubts about a championship team with Joel Anthony as starting C.

Doesn

[Teanett]

stupid thread.
i'm always impressed by an nba title, regardless who wins it.

[Unstop]

Mike brown is a horrible offensive coach. Just look at the current Lakers this year. The 2012 Lakers are still a more talented team than the 2009 and 2010 Cleveland, but they aren't even a top 3 teams in the Western Conference.

hmkay, maybe mike brown is not the best offensive coach , but hes not a bad coach.
this lakers are the worst lakers ive seen for years. lacking chemistry...or just because fisher became 1 year older and has no impact...!? for real... they just need a good pg running the offense...
but i cant agree with u....this team is much worse than CLE 2009-2010.
delonte and mo against those scrubs?
pau and bynum doesnt play like they did years before...i guess ilgauskas and vareajo could ve defended em...just saying CLE had chemistry , this lakers working on chemistry...

[I<3NBA]

I don't buy the "oh, Cleveland sucked and he had to leave excuse," cuz if that team was that bad, then they would've never went 60+ games in back to back seasons.
Cavs was good. but ONLY for the regular season. in the playoffs, teams were able focus so much attention on Lebron because his teammates routinely disappeared. Mo Williams especially. the only year i would agree it was Lebron who disappeared in the playoffs was in his last year.


John Stockton and Karl Malone kept losing in the playoffs. So did Patrick Ewing, and Reggie Miller, but none of them bailed on their teams
Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Miller - great example. what else do they have in common?

Lebron grew up watching these guys so you could say they really influenced his decision. four all-time great players who stayed loyal - and NEVER WON.

also, i could tell you this now that if Kobe landed in Cleveland, he would never even finish his contract there. he would cry for a trade before his rookie contract is even up. the only difference between Kobe and Lebron is that Kobe had good teammates BROUGHT TO HIM - hence he did not leave. you think he would've stayed if LA never got Gasol? the crying baby was literally throwing tantrums and it was sure as hell he was leaving before Gasol came in and stopped that baby from "ring chasing." without Gasol, Kobe would surely have been a ring chaser.

Lebron - had to leave for good teammates
Kobe - had good teammates brought to him
both = need good teammates to win

why can't you grasp that simple concept? it doesn't matter if guys was brought to your team or if it was you who left to find a good team. WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

[pmj]

[QUOTE=All Net]Doesn

[Bob Cousy]

if they do win most of basketball America will be like...

"well, its about time, you needed Wade and Bosh but w/e".

[All Net]

I think it played a big part, for many reasons.

If Joel Anthony sets a pick is there any chance in hell he catches the pass on the roll? No. If someone else sets the pick, you drive by and Joel's man comes to help, is there any chance he catches the lob/dump off? No.

If the other team goes to a zone, are they scared of Miami's bigs crashing the offensive glass? lol no. It would be funny to see a team try to go zone against Chicago's bigs.

I just think if the team had some semi-decent 7 footer who could catch lobs and rebound the offensive production would never grind to a halt like it does/has during playoff-intensity games.

I don’t disagree with you, in the ideal world the Heat would have a good C who can catch lobs, get easy putbacks and back down the defenders in the post. That said the weakness Miami have other teams don’t have near the quality on the perimeter.

All we heard about heading into the Bulls/Heat series is how Bulls would win due to the fact they have a better frontcourt and they are a great rebounding team...Miami even outrebounded them in game 2. Fact is when you have star power it outweighs the weaknesses and Miami had alot last year. Luckily for them Chalmers has improved alot and has made their PG position not that big of an issue anymore.
As I said I an see why you are concerned but other contenders also have bigger issues too.

[brwnman]

Ok...so what do you call promising a title to a team/city, and not delivering on that promise?! Like i said before basketball is a business. And in business you don't tell another businessman you're going to do something, and then turn right around and not do it, without any real explanation as to why you can't do it. If he really was serious about that promise, then he would've found a way to work it out with the Cavs organization. That's what trade exceptions, 3 team deals etc are for. Hell, he took a pay cut to go to Miami, so why couldn't he do the same for the Cavs?! Cuz he wanted to fulfill his contract and leave the first chance he got, ergo bailing on the Cavs....that's why.

You can't actually believe that, can you? He can say all the right things, but once his contractual obligation ends, he doesn't owe anything to the Cavs franchise or their fans...

[greymatter]

if they do win most of basketball America will be like...

"well, its about time, you needed Wade and Bosh but w/e".

So what? Kobe never won a title without Shaq or the tallest/longest/most dominant frontcourt in the league. Only superstar big men are capable of winning a title without another all-star.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

People will be impressed. Other legends of the game Bird, Magic, Jordan are allowed multiple HOF teammates, the only player who gets a bad rap for playing with a single all star is Kobe Bryant. People will give LeBron a pass like they do for the others.

[pmj]

[QUOTE=All Net]I don

[donald_trump]

i dont get the arguments of lebron haters.
apparently now hes on the best team ever, so he has to win. and apparently when he was with the cavs he should of stayed because they were so good because they won 60+ games both times.
well, why didnt he stay with the cavs? and whats the problem with him going to the heat. by all the haters definitions, he went to the worse team in the heat since they can't crack 60 wins.

what lebron has done is challenged himself. it will be a miracle if he can carry this cast of heat scrubs to a championship. i mean, they're even worse than his cleveland cast.

[All Net]

I don't see any other contender with as big of an issue in their starting lineup though.

Maybe not but nobody else who is a contender has the star power that Miami do. Thunder do have Durant and Westbrook which is real star power for perimeter scoring and they do have good defensive bigs but lack the offensive skill. Bulls have a very deep team who depend on Rose to come through for them in big games. Each contender is different. Other teams may have more balance but Miami has the superstar talent...which normally is enough.

It took an amazing effort from Dirk and some super human performances from their role players to win it all last year. It isn’t common but it happened. It took alot for Dallas to beat Miami. Can it happen again? Not as likely but certainly possible.

In a series you normally back star power. Does this mean Miami will certainly win? No but they are favourites and should win and they will get bashed if they don't...but if they do lose it will beto Bulls or Thunder IMO...don’t see anybody else being able to do it. Dallas has an outside shot if Dirk and Terry get hot but they aren’t as tough a match-up for the contenders as they were last year.

[pmj]

[QUOTE=All Net]Maybe not but nobody else who is a contender has the star power that Miami do. Thunder do have Durant and Westbrook which is real star power for perimeter scoring and they do have good defensive bigs but lack the offensive skill. Bulls have a very deep team who depend on Rose to come through for them in big games. Each contender is different. Other teams may have more balance but Miami has the superstar talent...which normally is enough.

It took an amazing effort from Dirk and some super human performances from their role players to win it all last year. It isn

[I<3NBA]

People will be impressed. Other legends of the game Bird, Magic, Jordan are allowed multiple HOF teammates, the only player who gets a bad rap for playing with a single all star is Kobe Bryant. People will give LeBron a pass like they do for the others.
ppl give Kobe props. what are you talking about? what ppl can't take are nvthggers like you trying to take credit away from Shaq by making it appear Kobe was the number one option in that first 3peat. NO THEY ARE NOT EQUAL during that championship run. Shaq was 1 and Kobe was 2.

if you accept that even superstars need other stars to win, then surely you don't begrudge Lebron teaming up with Wade and Bosh do you?

yeah right. you complain Kobe gets bad rap for needing all star big men yet in the same breath, bash Lebron for wanting to team up with other all stars too. you are as bad as the ppl you complain about. if you wanna complain about something, at least be consistent about it.

[iamgine]

Sorry Lebron fans. Noone will be surprised, or even moved if Miami wins a title this year. You LeBron fans are praying he gets this ring so that people won't have the no rings argument, but Who cares if he wins a ring playing on easily the best team in the league...Feauturing D Wade and Chris Bosh..top of the top 3-5 players at their position and wade being an Elite top 3-10 player in the league.


Aren't they sipposed to win with all that talent goin on?....It won't be impressive?....He will alwyas be viewed as a ring chaser that couldn't win without teaming up with the second best player in the league. and a top 5 PF.
Of course no one will be impressed because great players are supposed to get rings.

[I<3NBA]

Of course no one will be impressed because great players are supposed to get rings.
that's why no one is impressed Kobe has rings, right? right? :lol

[LakersReign]

You can't actually believe that, can you? He can say all the right things, but once his contractual obligation ends, he doesn't owe anything to the Cavs franchise or their fans...

That sounds exactly like the hypocritical b.s. Lebronite logic that it so obviously is. So...what you're saying, as a brand, he gives his word that he's going to do something, then doesn't deliver, and it's ok cuz he fulfilled his contract?! So...if he was under contract to Sprint, or AT&T, for let's ay 2 years to do a series of commercials for them. He agrees to the contract, then doesn't do any commercials for them. But it's ok cuz he stayed with them for the 2 years....does that makes any sense?! You CLEARLY have no real idea of what you're talking about:no:

[brwnman]

That sounds exactly like the hypocritical b.s. Lebronite logic that it so obviously is. So...what you're saying, as a brand, he gives his word that he's going to do something, then doesn't deliver, and it's ok cuz he fulfilled his contract?! So...if he was under contract to Sprint, or AT&T, for let's ay 2 years to do a series of commercials for them. He agrees to the contract, then doesn't do any commercials for them. But it's ok cuz he stayed with them for the 2 years....does that makes any sense?! You CLEARLY have no real idea of what you're talking about:no:

Do you know what contractual obligations are or are you confused? Funny how you're telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about...

[LakersReign]

Do you know what contractual obligations are or are you confused? Funny how you're telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about...


You can respond with your pointless rambling all you want to, cuz all that does is prove me right, that you CLEARLY have no clue of what you're talking about. Most if not all Lebronites say the same crap. "Oh well, he didn't owe Cleveland anything, so he was right to leave." Proving that you guys clearly don't have jobs, otherwise you would never say that delusional hot garbage. So....according to you, a person who works at acompany for several years, can just leave cuz they fulfilled their contract, and never say a word to their boss, they can just leave?! I say again you CLEARLY have no idea of what you're talking about:no:

[PJR]

Do you know what contractual obligations are or are you confused? Funny how you're telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about...

Pay him no mind. lakersreign is the dumbest mf'er on this forum.

[Lebron23]

Pay him no mind. lakersreign is the dumbest mf'er on this forum.

He's mentally retarded. LakersReign = Simple Jack


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-n_zk7e0ZU

[lebeast666]

People are saying them winning a title won't be impressive cuz Lebron was forcefed to us as supposed the next Jordan, but lacks the work ethic and dedication it takes to win. He bailed on the Cavs the minute his contract was up, to go to somebody else's team to try and win a title. Jordan spent a few years on the Bulls losing as well, but he didn't quit and go to the Celtics or Lakers. You can't call a guy the next Jordan, hype him up to the nth degree as such. And then have him not live up to that hype. Had he stayed with the Cavs, and won a title with them, then that would've been way more impressive or Jordanesque, than going to the Heat.


Jordan won a chip 5 seasons in. Lebron was with the cavs 7 seasons in wasting his time with that crap team when he decided to leave. Did Jordan have to deal with a trio of all stars on the Spurs, Celtics and stacked Lakers team... I doubt it.

[pegasus]

True or false?

Miami without Lebron would be the best team in the league, or at least top 3?

[LakersReign]

Thats hardly the same, when Shaq was what 37? he was also traded there...hardly had a choose in the matter anyway.

The Cleveland FO tried and tried hard to get guys to partner Lebron. They just didn't have the assets to do it...just was one of those things that didn't work out.

They tried to sign Redd, Joe Johnson and Ray Allen but got turned down...not much they could of done.

They offered Redd BIG money...

The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how bad the franchise is run, no matter how bad their talent is, they as an NBA team have options to improve the team. If there was supposedly no way in hell the Cavs could've brought in legitimate help for Lebron, then how is it that the Clippers now have Griffin and Paul?! The Cavs now have Irving, how was that possible?! Those situations may have different circumstances but, they prove my point entirely. If Lebron is supposedly the best player in the league, then how come nobody wanted to go to play in Cleveland with him?! Lebron took a pay cut to go play in Miami, but somehow couldn't do the same in Cleveland. And you're trying to tell me NO DEAL WHATSOEVER was possible to bring in real talent?! Doesn't make sense.

[pauk]

Sorry Lebron fans. Noone will be surprised, or even moved if Miami wins a title this year. You LeBron fans are praying he gets this ring so that people won't have the no rings argument, but Who cares if he wins a ring playing on easily the best team in the league...Feauturing D Wade and Chris Bosh..top of the top 3-5 players at their position and wade being an Elite top 3-10 player in the league.


Aren't they sipposed to win with all that talent goin on?....It won't be impressive?....He will alwyas be viewed as a ring chaser that couldn't win without teaming up with the second best player in the league. and a top 5 PF.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/20549/butthurt.jpg

[pmj]

True or false?

Miami without Lebron would be the best team in the league, or at least top 3?

False easily.

Top 3 in the East maybe, that prob doesn't reach conf finals.

[All Net]

then how is it that the Clippers now have Griffin and Paul?!

They had trade assets, they had young talent and picks. Thats why Paul is in L.A...They clearly got Griffin for being bad. The fact it is L.A means players will be interested in signing there anyway.

The Cavs now have Irving, how was that possible?![/quote]

Because they sucked last season enough to get him. Same way they got Lebron in the first place.


If Lebron is supposedly the best player in the league, then how come nobody wanted to go to play in Cleveland with him?! Lebron took a pay cut to go play in Miami, but somehow couldn't do the same in Cleveland. And you're trying to tell me NO DEAL WHATSOEVER was possible to bring in real talent?! Doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? Cleveland tried hard to do so but couldn't due to lack of trade assets and Cleveland is not a marketable place for stars to play. They made offers to Redd, Allen and Johnson when they had max money to throw at players.

Paycut from 111 million from 136 million is abit different from a normal paycut...Cavs still wouldn't of had the cap space to being in other stars even with Lebron taking a paycut.

Cavs did have options to improve the team yes but enough to make them a team who should win titles? no...the improvement they needed was a legit number 2...Bosh would of been perfect for them.

[ILLsmak]

I agree that most of the shit that happens in this year will have to be asterisked.

imagine if Duncan had only won a ring in the lockout season. So, yeah, I think this is like a "half championship" since it's like a half season without a training camp.

-Smak

[All Net]

I agree that most of the shit that happens in this year will have to be asterisked.

imagine if Duncan had only won a ring in the lockout season. So, yeah, I think this is like a "half championship" since it's like a half season without a training camp.

-Smak

If anything winning a title this year is far harder and grueling than any 82 season ever was....whoever wins should get more credit from winning a 66 game season than an 82.

[tmacattack33]

I will be impressed. I am already impressed with the way Lebron is playing like right now. Easily the best we've seen since prime Shaq in 2000.

Can't wait!! (*Bart Scott voice * )

[pegasus]

False easily.

Top 3 in the East maybe, that prob doesn't reach conf finals.
Who'd be just as good or better, other than the Bulls and the OKC?

[Kblaze8855]

As a Bulls fan...I wouldnt be afraid of the Heat without Lebron. They could still win 50+ games in a normal season but they wouldnt be one of those "Man...I hope they slip up before we have to run into them" teams.

Last year was kinda brutal after game 1.

[D-Wade316]

False easily.

Top 3 in the East maybe, that prob doesn't reach conf finals.
Miami Heat with Wade, Bosh, and current supporting cast not the best team in the league? :roll:

[pmj]

Who'd be just as good or better, other than the Bulls and the OKC?

If you are really talking just taking out Lebron and not adding anyone else, I'd have it like this, assuming everyone is playing their best:

Better than them:
Chicago
OKC
NYK
LAC

On par easily:
Dallas
SAS
ORL
LAL (if they just get someone decent with their TPE)
Denver
Philly

Only slightly worse:
Bos
Mem
Ind

If you read my previous posts in this thread you can see my opinions about the Heat bigs. If you replace Joel Anthony with someone half decent, they are probably top 5 in the NBA, but not until then, it's too big of a hole.

[Kblaze8855]

The Heat dont even have the best record now and the Bulls have been missing Rose and Rip....and for a while Deng. And thats with Lebron on his superman act. The Heat without Lebron would be good...but not a team you expect to win. Just a team that could if everything went just right and Wade went all 2009 on the league at just the right time...

The Heat with Lebron are potentially so good they are expected to win. Not capable of possibly winning. They are supposed to win according to most.

Drop Lebron the Heat arent even much of a story. Just one of a number of teams to watch for if they get hot at the right time.

[Gundress]

LeBron wins a champ with the Cavs (Will be greatest story to tell) cause he did by himself and especially his hometowm.


LeBron wins a champ with the Heat (Who cares?, not greatest story to tell) cause he teamed up with superstars.

Funny thing is if Lebron wins a championship and people be all over on him then what about Wade? cause he's going to get his 2nd rings.


Wade's two rings>>>>>LeBron's first ring.

[pmj]

The Heat dont even have the best record now and the Bulls have been missing Rose and Rip....and for a while Deng. And thats with Lebron on his superman act. The Heat without Lebron would be good...but not a team you expect to win. Just a team that could if everything went just right and Wade went all 2009 on the league at just the right time...

The Heat with Lebron are potentially so good they are expected to win. Not capable of possibly winning. They are supposed to win according to most.

Drop Lebron the Heat arent even much of a story. Just one of a number of teams to watch for if they get hot at the right time.

Seriously agree 1000%. I was going to say the same thing about needing Wade at his 09 level to even have a chance of sniffing a 'ship.

The Heat's role players are severely overrated. No one would be able to create their own shot except Wade. There is NO legit center/paint protectors. They are almost all overachieving, undersized, untalented players with horrible athleticism.

[D-Wade316]

Seriously agree 1000%. I was going to say the same thing about needing Wade at his 09 level to even have a chance of sniffing a 'ship.

The Heat's role players are severely overrated. No one would be able to create their own shot except Wade. There is NO legit center/paint protectors. They are almost all overachieving, undersized, untalented players with horrible athleticism.
Haha lol :facepalm The 06 Heat weren't even better than the 05 Heat. And 11-12 Heat > 04-05 Heat.

[pmj]

Haha lol :facepalm The 06 Heat weren't even better than the 05 Heat. And 11-12 Heat > 04-05 Heat.

What does any of that have to do with ranking the Heat as contructed without Lebron, which is what we were talking about?

[ThatsGame]

Why would people waste time talking about the Heat without LeBron.

He's on the Heat. end of story..

[D-Wade316]

What does any of that have to do with ranking the Heat as contructed without Lebron, which is what we were talking about?
The Heat without Lebron is a title contender. If you seriously believe a team composed of Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Cole, Miller, Battier, Jones, Anthony(:lol) can't compete for the title, then you're a retard.

[PJR]

Why would people waste time talking about the Heat without LeBron.

He's on the Heat. end of story..

This. Irrelevant discussion.

[pegasus]

No one would be able to create their own shot except Wade. There is NO legit center/paint protectors. They are almost all overachieving, undersized, untalented players with horrible athleticism.
:facepalm Just wow.

First of all, Bosh is extremely good at creating his own shoot, has a variety of moves, and draws a foul whenever he drives to the basket.

Chalmers is a better point guard than he is allowed to showcase with Lebron and Wade on the floor. He can create for his teammates when they put the ball in his hands, and he has become a great 3 point shooter this season. Even Nicole is a good shot creator (selfish, but he can score).

Anthony is one of the best paint protectors in the league. Just watch some games. He alters/blocks every shot at the rim, and rarely gets called for a foul.

Mike Miller has found his shooting touch this season, and he is one of their best rebounders. Haslem is also one of their best rebounders and defenders, and can still knock down that midrange J.

Battier knows how to flop, and has drawn a ton of charges already. Plus he's been shooting better lately.

James Jones is one of the best 3 point shooters, and can't even buy any minutes. That's how stacked they are.

[pmj]

:facepalm Just wow.

First of all, Bosh is extremely good at creating his own shoot, has a variety of moves, and draws a foul whenever he drives to the basket.

Chalmers is a better point guard than he is allowed to showcase with Lebron and Wade on the floor. He can create for his teammates when they put the ball in his hands, and he has become a great 3 point shooter this season. Even Nicole is a good shot creator (selfish, but he can score).

Anthony is one of the best paint protectors in the league. Just watch some games. He alters/blocks every shot at the rim, and rarely gets called for a foul.

Mike Miller has found his shooting touch this season, and he is one of their best rebounders. Haslem is also one of their best rebounders and defenders, and can still knock down that midrange J.

Battier knows how to flop, and has drawn a ton of charges already. Plus he's been shooting better lately.

James Jones is one of the best 3 point shooters, and can't even buy any minutes. That's how stacked they are.

Please tell me what NBA Champion in the last 30 years loses to:

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Miller
Battier/JJ
Bosh/Haslem
Joel/Haslem

VASTLY overrating those role players, and Bosh for that matter. That isn't championship quality, sorry.

[pmj]

Why would people waste time talking about the Heat without LeBron.

He's on the Heat. end of story..

B/c Pegasus is trying to say the Heat without Lebron would be the best team in the NBA, which he obviously is just saying so he can bash Lebron more about how "stacked" the Heat are.

[LakersReign]

They had trade assets, they had young talent and picks. Thats why Paul is in L.A...They clearly got Griffin for being bad. The fact it is L.A means players will be interested in signing there anyway.

The Cavs now have Irving, how was that possible?!

Because they sucked last season enough to get him. Same way they got Lebron in the first place.



Why doesn't it make sense? Cleveland tried hard to do so but couldn't due to lack of trade assets and Cleveland is not a marketable place for stars to play. They made offers to Redd, Allen and Johnson when they had max money to throw at players.

Paycut from 111 million from 136 million is abit different from a normal paycut...Cavs still wouldn't of had the cap space to being in other stars even with Lebron taking a paycut.

Cavs did have options to improve the team yes but enough to make them a team who should win titles? no...the improvement they needed was a legit number 2...Bosh would of been perfect for them.

Saying Lebron is the best player in the league, while also saying at the same time that there were no viable options for the Cavs to pursue to bring in quality talent, still seems way contradictory. Even if the Cavs had no trade value, that still doesn't mean a 3team deal couldn't have worked. IMO, Lebron didn't want to invest in the future of the team cuz he was way more concerned with his brand than anything else. He called the Cavs a family and all that, then basically threw them under the bus when he left, which proves that. He felt that Cleveland wasn't the "big stage" for him to further his brand, so he left. Saying he was the face of that franchise, while also saying his hands were tied as far as having some kind of say in who the team can bring in to help get a title, makes no sense.

[ILLsmak]

If anything winning a title this year is far harder and grueling than any 82 season ever was....whoever wins should get more credit from winning a 66 game season than an 82.

Why? Most of these guys weren't even sure they were going to be playing. Everything about the NBA is changed; they said they are going to have back to back playoff games. They are having 3 games in 3 nights. You can say it might take more skill, but that doesn't change that the whole idea is skewed.

That's why IMO all sorts of bizarre shit is happening. It's like if you take two people have have them stay up all night and then take a hand eye coordination test. It's cool that someone could perform under that pressure, but in most cases you play under normal circumstances. Or, another thing, it's like playing bball outside when it's windy.

I think the Heat should win, though, but this season is a snoozefest for me.

-Smak

[pegasus]

Please tell me what NBA Champion in the last 30 years loses to:

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Miller
Battier/JJ
Bosh/Haslem
Joel/Haslem

VASTLY overrating those role players, and Bosh for that matter. That isn't championship quality, sorry.
Just off the top of my head, they would beat the last year's Dallas.

Lebron was an absolute non-factor in the finals, and had this year's Miller played his minutes instead (with Battier as his back up, and Nicole off the bench instead of Bibby), they would have won.

I'm not saying Miller is better than Lebron, but he would have had more impact, because no one could have played worse.

They would also be better than the Heat of 2006. Wade wold have won his first ring without the help from the refs.

[D-Wade316]

Please tell me what NBA Champion in the last 30 years loses to:

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Miller
Battier/JJ
Bosh/Haslem
Joel/Haslem

VASTLY overrating those role players, and Bosh for that matter. That isn't championship quality, sorry.
Wade will always be Wade. He'll bring his A game come playoff time. Bosh is an excellent 2nd option. He won't shot jock like Westbrook. Underrated defender. Easily the best tandem in the league.

Anthony is one of the league's premier rim protector. Alters a lot of shots, but his rebounding and scoring makes him a liability. Haslem can make up for Joel's deficiency in rebounding. Decent mid range jumper.

Battier is still an elite defender. Always there to put a body. Miller is a threat from long distance, while also being a terrific rebounder for his size.

Chalmers and Cole both bring different games to the table. Chalmers has greatly increased his shooting percentages. Cole is a bet selfish, but he can score, so the defense needs to pay attention on him.

Heat without Lebron or Wade, and Bosh as their second option, is a title contending team.

[chuckbuck]

OP sounds like a bitter cleveland fan...I'm from Ohio and I'm sick of those people!

[D-Wade316]

Just off the top of my head, they would beat the last year's Dallas.
Absolutely. Bibby, House, Dampier, Magloire, and Big Z last year was just terrible. I couldn't bear to watch them on the court. Plus Haslem and Miller just came back from their injuries.

[chuckbuck]

why are people so obsessed with Lebron having to carry a team of nobody's to a title anyway. You'd be hard pressed to find one person in the history of the league to ever lead a team of losers to an NBA title. There's a reason championship teams win championships, they're good...why are we going to penalize Lebron for being on a good team?

[pmj]

Just off the top of my head, they would beat the last year's Dallas.

Lebron was an absolute non-factor in the finals, and had this year's Miller played his minutes instead (with Battier as his back up, and Nicole off the bench instead of Bibby), they would have won.

I'm not saying Miller is better than Lebron, but he would have had more impact, because no one could have played worse.

They would also be better than the Heat of 2006. Wade wold have won his first ring without the help from the refs.

Lebron had 18/7/7 on good percentages, you act like he was the Joel Anthony of SF's in the Finals.

Bosh shot 28%, 25%, 39%, 47% with 6.5 rebounds game 1-4 in the Finals, great job there.

[linZoMourning]

im not sure what lebron can do to get back a legacy that matters. he would have to leave miami

[pmj]

And just in general I strongly disagree. Every single matchup outside of Wade is better for Dallas last year.

Kidd > Chalmers
DeShaw <<< Wade
Marion > Battier
Dirk > Bosh
Chandler/Haywood >>>>> Joel/Haslem

Barea > Cole
Terry > Miller

[2swift4u]

imo there are several other teams that have just as much talent in their team this season.. so I don't see why it wouldn't be an achievement if Miami won the title this year.

[Vienceslav]

Oh come on , if they win they win.
Chicago and OKC are good teams so it

[talkingconch]

There shouldn't be any asterisk or problem for any team that wins this year. Every team plays 66 regular season games, whoever wins rightfully earned it.

[D-Wade316]

And just in general I strongly disagree. Every single matchup outside of Wade is better for Dallas last year.

Kidd > Chalmers
DeShaw <<< Wade
Marion > Battier
Dirk > Bosh
Chandler/Haywood >>>>> Joel/Haslem

Barea > Cole
Terry > Miller
The Heat could have swept Dallas if not for Lebron, Bosh, even Wade(game 2 & 4), choking. Don't tell me a motivated, younger and healthier Heat can't beat that Dallas squad. :facepalm

[cteach111]

No one will remember nor will they care to remember the details. The only thing that matters is the results.

Even if someone brings up the details, there will be a lot people that argue them.

[pmj]

The Heat could have swept Dallas if not for Lebron, Bosh, even Wade(game 2 & 4), choking. Don't tell me a motivated, younger and healthier Heat can't beat that Dallas squad. :facepalm

So what is stopping Wade and Bosh from choking on their own? Why are they "motivated" without Lebron. Who's stopping Dirk in the clutch? Who's stopping Terry, Barea, Chandler?

Wade, Bosh, and Lebron are masking some serious holes in the roster right now, namely that there is zero size or athleticism after them, and you guys want to act like after taking Lebron off the roster they'd still be the best team... no.

[tmacattack33]

Wade will always be Wade. He'll bring his A game come playoff time. Bosh is an excellent 2nd option. He won't shot jock like Westbrook. Underrated defender. Easily the best tandem in the league.

Anthony is one of the league's premier rim protector. Alters a lot of shots, but his rebounding and scoring makes him a liability. Haslem can make up for Joel's deficiency in rebounding. Decent mid range jumper.

Battier is still an elite defender. Always there to put a body. Miller is a threat from long distance, while also being a terrific rebounder for his size.

Chalmers and Cole both bring different games to the table. Chalmers has greatly increased his shooting percentages. Cole is a bet selfish, but he can score, so the defense needs to pay attention on him.

Heat without Lebron or Wade, and Bosh as their second option, is a title contending team.


Well we have evidence that the Heat can be good with Lebron and without Wade. We do not have evidence for the other way around though. So, your bolded statement there is off-base.

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

Last year it just felt too damn good watching Dallas shut down The Heat & the refs.

This year its sort of expected for Miami to take the east again and possibly take it all.

[cteach111]

Last year it just felt too damn good watching Dallas shut down The Heat & the refs.

This year its sort of expected for Miami to take the east again and possibly take it all.

i think most people thought that if there was ever a year to catch the Heat, it was last year.

After that though, good luck to all those vying for the 'ship

[Yao Ming's Foot]

ppl give Kobe props. what are you talking about? what ppl can't take are nvthggers like you trying to take credit away from Shaq by making it appear Kobe was the number one option in that first 3peat. NO THEY ARE NOT EQUAL during that championship run. Shaq was 1 and Kobe was 2.

if you accept that even superstars need other stars to win, then surely you don't begrudge Lebron teaming up with Wade and Bosh do you?

yeah right. you complain Kobe gets bad rap for needing all star big men yet in the same breath, bash Lebron for wanting to team up with other all stars too. you are as bad as the ppl you complain about. if you wanna complain about something, at least be consistent about it.

Kobe had Shaq OR Gasol and rang 5 times, Lebron has Wade AND Bosh and flamed out :confusedshrug:

[bdreason]

A title is a title. There have been more stacked, and more importantly, more complete teams in the past that have won titles... and it was impressive every time.


The Lakers had two top 5 players of ALL-TIME for 5 Championships... all impressive.

[keepinitreal]

People are gonna lose their minds if Lebron wins a ring. Millions will care and in time people wont even be aware of the team situation. In a few years kids who are 12 now will be 18 and all over this place with virtually no memory of the decision with Lebron having been the best player in the NBA much of the time since they were 8. Lebron will get the love just like everyone else who won on stacked teams. Including teams better than the Heat. How they came together doesnt matter on the floor. They will get the same longterm credit everyone else does if they win. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.

The only people looking to hate will be a generation that will be passed up here shortly.

People think their opinions matter a lot more than they do. Longterm pretty much all legends get credit for whatever they did no matter what. I hate Karl Malone. Doesnt mean a bunch of 20 year olds arent on here ranking him over ____ when they didnt even see him play.

Soon the 20 year olds will be the kids in middle school right now who were getting ready for bed during the decision and watching Monday Night Raw during the 2010 playoffs.

The hate will become what the hate for everyone becomes.

A memory held only in the minds of fans who become a smaller and smaller minority.

Such is life. Lebron wins on the Heat it will only not matter to a bunch of angry people at exactly the right age to care. History will compare it to a lot of title teams with more talent and Lebron will be ranked with all the others.

He knew it. Winning, highlights, and numbers are all history remembers.

The haters on ISH will matter as much as the people who made Ali(according to some reports) the most hated man in America in the late 60s. Lets not go into Lebron/Ali comparisons as clearly that isnt my intent.

Just saying....nobody is hated for all that long. Especially people who didnt actually do anything morally wrong for the world to look down on.

If the Heat win a few rings Lebrons HOF induction is gonna be an ESPN special with 45 minutes of praise as a gang of 25 year olds see clips of the Decision and barely remember their uncles being pissed off when they were 8.


:bowdown:

[pegasus]

Well we have evidence that the Heat can be good with Lebron and without Wade. We do not have evidence for the other way around though. So, your bolded statement there is off-base.
We do have evidence, which is the last year's finals. Miami almost beat the Mavs with Lebron sabotaging, imagine what they would have done without him.

[d21221hk]

We do have evidence, which is the last year's finals. Miami almost beat the Mavs with Lebron sabotaging, imagine what they would have done without him.

How is that evidence? You chose to overlook Lebron's contribution that brought them to the finals in the first place. That team wouldn't have gotten past the Bulls without Lebron.

[Dizzle-2k7]

So if the Heat win a championship it's not impressive, and if they don't win a championship they are lousy failures?

So it's lose-lose for the Heat no matter what they do?

That seems unfair.

:rolleyes:

Thats the price you pay for teaming 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA together. Jordan would never do this shlt.

[linZoMourning]

:rolleyes:

Thats the price you pay for teaming 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA together. Jordan would never do this shlt.

im sure jordan would love to play with wade and bosh. that would be a beastly team

[Lebron23]

How is that evidence? You chose to overlook Lebron's contribution that brought them to the finals in the first place. That team wouldn't have gotten past the Bulls without Lebron.


Pegasus is a dumb @$$. My Himalayan Cat has a higher IQ than this clown.

[Lebron23]

:rolleyes:

Thats the price you pay for teaming 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA together. Jordan would never do this shlt.

1994 Chicago Bulls almost advanced in the NBA Finals in 1994. They won 55 games without Jordan. Those 1990's Bulls team were stacked.

[Heavincent]

1994 Chicago Bulls almost advanced in the NBA Finals in 1994. They won 55 games without Jordan. Those 1990's Bulls team were stacked.

Big difference. Jordan didn't leave via free agency.

[Lebron23]

Big difference. Jordan didn't leave via free agency.

He was suspended for gambling. LeBron is better than Wade this season. Just look at their numbers. A healthy Wade is a top 3 player in the NBA, but Current Wade is barely a top 10 player this season.

[I.R.Beast]

He was suspended for gambling. LeBron is better than Wade this season. Just look at their numbers. A healthy Wade is a top 3 player in the NBA, but Current Wade is barely a top 10 player this season.
Barely top 10 my ass...wade is healthy now and is tearing it up in lmitied minutes.....

[D-Wade316]

Barely top 10 my ass...wade is healthy now and is tearing it up in lmitied minutes.....
:applause:

[bwink23]

the only people who think Lebron winning rings in Miami won't mean anything...are the ones wishing him to fail....

TRUTH

[305Baller]

I will be impressed.