Who is the best little man in NBA history?

[tgan3]

Iverson, Isiah or CP3?

edit: Take note that CP3 probably hasn't reached his prime and has many good years ahead of him...

[roffie]

Iverson > Isiah > CP3

[CeltsGarlic]

Iverson > Isiah > CP3

thats roofie talk.

[Shade8780]

Iverson > Isiah > CP3
Seriously?

Zeke > Iverson > CP3

[Kyle_korver]

Iverson ... No other 6 foot player is averaging over 30 ever again .. Then cp3.. Check his 2008 stats .. Plus this is the best era of the scoring pg .. N cp is still killing.. Who was zeke pg competition as far as scoring pg?..... Exactly

[Tmuston Beltics]

I'd go with Iverson :bowdown:

[PTB Fan]

Isiah Thomas is the best little man ever.

Cousy is the greatest overall though. He's not better than Zeke, but his career makes him a top 25 player in NBA History, period.

[Rnbizzle]

Rose in 15 years.

[kumquat]

I'verson only has volume scoring over the other 2. What else does he do better than the other 2?

[arifgokcen]

Iverson was better than both of them.He could drop 60 on you.He wasnt even 6'.More like 5'11.Paul i think is better than isiah.However in terms of legacy
Isiah>iverson>CP3

[lakers_forever]

Iverson > Isiah > CP3

http://www.headlinesports.net/catalog/j87413_8107_1.jpg

[Shade8780]

Lol at these people saying AI. He was great but Zeke actually knew what passing meant. Isiah was the better All-Around player.

[kumquat]

Iverson was better than both of them.He could drop 60 on you.He wasnt even 6'.More like 5'11.Paul i think is better than isiah.However in terms of legacy
Isiah>iverson>CP3

He could also brick a team out of a game. Like I said a volume scorer, what else?

[JMT]

Much as I hated him as a player and find him to be a general doosh, you've got to go with Isaiah.

Then Iverson, who I loved as a player and has proven to generally be a doosh.

Paul? Not at the Tiny Archibald or Bob Cousy level yet.

[blablabla]

Zeke
Ai
Nash
Tiny
Price

[Nash-tastic]

Zeke > Iverson > CP3

[inclinerator]

lin

[La Frescobaldi]

nah man those guys ain't the greatest little man that is Tiny Archibald without a doubt.......... only man ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists in the same season....... and he did it during Kareem's prime years!!

I just can't like cp3, great as he is. I hate flopping with a intensity of hate.

If Paul flopped like that back when Tiny Archibald was playing, he would have been destroyed by Dave Cowens or Bob Lanier. After those guys got done rag-dolling him they would have thrown his @ss right into the cheap seats where that trick belongs.

The refs prolly wouldn't even call them for a foul - rough justice has its place

[blablabla]

nah man those guys ain't the greatest little man that is Tiny Archibald without a doubt.......... only man ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists in the same season....... and he did it during Kareem's prime years!!

I just can't like cp3, great as he is. I hate flopping with a intensity of hate.

If Paul flopped like that back when Tiny Archibald was playing, he would have been destroyed by Dave Cowens or Bob Lanier. After those guys got done rag-dolling him they would have thrown his @ss right into the cheap seats where that trick belongs.

The refs prolly wouldn't even call them for a foul - rough justice has its place
was tiny really better than isiah

[Unstop]

nah man those guys ain't the greatest little man that is Tiny Archibald without a doubt.......... only man ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists in the same season....... and he did it during Kareem's prime years!!

I just can't like cp3, great as he is. I hate flopping with a intensity of hate.

If Paul flopped like that back when Tiny Archibald was playing, he would have been destroyed by Dave Cowens or Bob Lanier. After those guys got done rag-dolling him they would have thrown his @ss right into the cheap seats where that trick belongs.

The refs prolly wouldn't even call them for a foul - rough justice has its place

im not sure if archibald was better than isiah, but agree with everything else.
lost my respect for paul this season, didnt know hes such an ass :facepalm
whatever, paul is talented but didnt accomplished anything...but in todays league everyone becomes hall of famer showing great stats after 6-7 games. :confusedshrug:

[FKAri]

The best little man in NBA history would have to be Manute Bol.

[PTB Fan]

nah man those guys ain't the greatest little man that is Tiny Archibald without a doubt.......... only man ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists in the same season....... and he did it during Kareem's prime years!!

I just can't like cp3, great as he is. I hate flopping with a intensity of hate.

If Paul flopped like that back when Tiny Archibald was playing, he would have been destroyed by Dave Cowens or Bob Lanier. After those guys got done rag-dolling him they would have thrown his @ss right into the cheap seats where that trick belongs.

The refs prolly wouldn't even call them for a foul - rough justice has its place

If we were to argue picks.. yes, Archibald may be the greatest, after all, he recorded 34/11 and led the league in both categories. CP3 has a good case with his 08 season too. And AI as well!

[k0kakw0rld]

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/534354francst01.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=534354francst01.jpg)

[DaHeezy]

Iverson and Isiah are close. Closer than most think and really it's not clear cut.

Isiah is more you prototypical PG. He could dribble, dictate pace, and pass better than you average PG. What made Isiah so special is he was a competitor. He hated to lose. He was also winning in an era where there was Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics, Jordan's Bulls, Ewing's Knicks, and so on. It was Isiah's team in which Jordan had to surpass in order to win a championship.

Iverson really gets an undeserved bad rap. He's usually being judged by his post sixer career, which is really unfair. During his Sixer career terms like "warrior" and "heart" were often used to describe AI, and he really was. On top of that he was the greatest scorer under 6 feet. He revolutionized the way the game was played. And the crossover. Tim Hardaway may have froze people, but Iverson introduced the crossover that literally made people go one direction while he went the other. How he undressed Jordan? It practically sparked the And1 era.

Having said that:

AI>Zeke>CP3

Gonna throw out some names that haven't been mentioned: Calvin Murphy, Damon Stoudemire, and P4P maybe the most underrated little man ever Mugsy Bougues

[JellyBean]

Isiah Lord Thomas hands down the best little man in NBA history.

[Owl]

Is this thread about the best little scorer?
Peak Year PER Peak Year Win Shares Career PER Career WS
Steve Nash 23.8 12.6 20.3 122.6
John Stockton 23.9 15.6 21.8 207.7
Chris Paul 30 17.8 25.2 81
Allen Iverson 25.9 11.8 20.9 99
Isiah Thomas 22.2 11.2 18.1 80.7


included for reference purposes

Terrell Brandon 25.2 12.7 19.7 65.9
Kevin Johnson 23.7 10.2 20.7 92.8
Tim Hardaway 20.9 12.9 18.6 85
Mark Price 22.7 11.3 19.6 71.1

Make your own judgements but if "little man" isn't limited to little man scorer, then Iverson and Thomas as somehow clearly the best doesn't make any sense. My vote goes to Chris Paul.

Going back further Tiny Archibald and Calvin Murphy were good (and good scorers).

[Shepseskaf]

Zeke is the clear cut winner, imo. He produced at the highest level and won championships against a level of competition that was much better overall than anything AI faced.

Tiny was amazing, but Zeke was a better player.

CP3 has a ways to go before being measured along with the all-time greats.

[JMT]

nah man those guys ain't the greatest little man that is Tiny Archibald without a doubt.......... only man ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists in the same season....... and he did it during Kareem's prime years!!



Like his stature and nickname, Tiny's peak was really small. He had the huge year in 72-73, but had only three other seasons above 20 ppg and two others above 8 assists. Servicable shooter; game built almost exclusively on his speed and slashing ability. Because of his size and the physical nature of play, durability was an issue as well. Also played on only one winning team during his first 8 seasons in Cincy/KC/Omaha/Nets/Boston.

Great player, but aside from that one year, not really comparable to the accomplishments of Isaiah. Scoring, assists, longevity, team success all squarely in Thomas' favor.

[jlauber]

Look up Fat Lever. All 6-3 175 lbs of him. He ROUTINELY led his team in rebounding, and was even in the top-20, in the late 80's, and in an era of the tallest players, on average, in NBA history.

[ProfessorMurder]

Take note that CP3 probably hasn't reached his prime and has many good years ahead of him...

:roll: Dude's never going to be as good as he was 4 years ago.

[JMT]

Look up Fat Lever. All 6-3 175 lbs of him. He ROUTINELY led his team in rebounding, and was even in the top-20, in the late 80's, and in an era of the tallest players, on average, in NBA history.

He was a fun player to watch. Just did everything well on the court. Those teams with he, English, Hanzlick, Dunn, Natt...great, entertaining basketball.

[jstern]

Little man is a term that I hear a lot from big man, usually refereeing to guys who are 6'6". It fascinates me because these guys are so big that they consider someone who's 6'6" as little.

[SteveNashMVPcro]

Iverson, Isiah or CP3?

edit: Take note that CP3 probably hasn't reached his prime and has many good years ahead of him...
CP3 is all ready past his prime.3-5 more good seasons max
It's Zeke>Archibald>CP3>AI

[StateOfMind12]

No little man had a greater peak/prime than CP3 did.

If we are talking the all-time list and overall body of work though, the answer is Isiah Thomas.

Isiah was never as good as CP3 was in '08 or in '09 though which is what I wanted to point out. Isiah gets really overrated, at least on this site.

[DaHeezy]

Look up Fat Lever. All 6-3 175 lbs of him. He ROUTINELY led his team in rebounding, and was even in the top-20, in the late 80's, and in an era of the tallest players, on average, in NBA history.

He's great, but you just opened up a whole new list of players over 6'0m I think this thread is about true little men

[A globe-trotter]

http://www.headlinesports.net/catalog/j87413_8107_1.jpg

:rockon:

[JMT]

No little man had a greater peak/prime than CP3 did.

If we are talking the all-time list and overall body of work though, the answer is Isiah Thomas.

Isiah was never as good as CP3 was in '08 or in '09 though which is what I wanted to point out. Isiah gets really overrated, at least on this site.

Thomas had four seasons (83-84 through 86-87) that rival Paul's two year peak. Paul never came within 2 assists per gm of Thomas' best season. Thomas' first 6 seasons are better across the board.

Hell, Archibald's 72-73 season obliterated Paul's best.

To say Paul's 160 game peak is unrivaled is ridiculous.

And you have no idea how much I hate defending Isiah Thomas.

[pauk]

talent/skill/productions:

iverson > isiah > cp3

career/accomplishments:

isiah > iverson > cp3

[CavaliersFTW]

Iverson, Isiah or CP3?

edit: Take note that CP3 probably hasn't reached his prime and has many good years ahead of him...

:facepalm
I hope you don't believe it's just those three guys that should be talked about.

Zeke

Cousy

Iverson

Archibald

Price

Goodrich

Stockton

Nash

CP3

In no particular order because everyone's criteria is going to be slightly different.

There's prob a few more still - but man... u leavin out so many valid candidates

[nightprowler10]

I'll take the guy who took a bunch of nobodies to two chips.

[rodman91]

Iverson :bowdown:

[inclinerator]

http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/p/sp/getty/69/fullj.5b9f6f1dd355e005058f398aef6f4a1a/5b9f6f1dd355e005058f398aef6f4a1a-getty-139327861.jpg

[bizil]

When I think little man I think 6'1 and under. If were are talking between Zeke, AI, and CP3 its an interesting debate. I've always felt AI is like an Isiah or CP3 unleashed at the SG position. AI was more than capable of playing PG very well. But Larry Brown was the guy to notice that AI was a great scorer who thought more like a SG. With Eric Snow u have a PG who was a great defender and could check SG's. So it was the perfect setup and AI propelled himself to a top 6 GOAT SG of all time. If anything, guys like Rose and Westbrook resemble the days when AI played PG early in his career. Not in terms of size, but in terms of being great scorers who can play PG very well. But those kinds of players might be better of at SG in certain situations.

With that said, I think Isiah was just as capable of dominating a game scoring as AI. I think CP3 can as well or is just a hair behind Zeke and AI in that aspect. AI and CP3 are capable of being great passers and great scorers all in one while fufilling the duties your want from a PG at the highest levels. So if I want a dominant combo type guard I would pick AI. If I want a PG who is capable of dominating scoring and passing wise I would pick Zeke and CP3. I think Isiah historically is the best of these three. Peak value wise I think I would roll with Isiah as well. I love AI, but Isiah proved he can go on scoring binges and be an alpha dog on the level of AI. But in the all around sense, CP3 the best of these three because of his defense.

But I give Tiny Archibald HUGE CREDIT for being the godfather for these kinds of players. U saw elements of Tiny in all three of these kinds. Hell he is still the only player to lead the L in assists and scoring in the same season. So in my book, I think these are the top 10 little guys of all time (no particular order after the first four):

Isiah
AI
Tiny
CP3
Stockton
Cousy
KJ
Tim Hardaway
Calvin Murphy
Mark Price-Lenny Wilkens (my sleeper picks)

[Lebron23]

6'0" Isiah Thomas

[Odinn]

Archibald was 6-1 and people talking about him. Hell, even Starbury(6-2) is mentioned. So there is nothing wrong with mentioning another 6-2 one;
Jerry West.

I win.

[bizil]

Archibald was 6-1 and people talking about him. Hell, even Starbury(6-2) is mentioned. So there is nothing wrong with mentioning another 6-2 one;
Jerry West.

I win.

Great point! If u include guys 6'2 then these guys HAVE TO BE ON THE LIST:

West
Marbury
Parker

And GOAT wise, West would be number one with a bullet. And Peak value wise West would be number one as well. It doesn't get any better than West pound for pound. West was the first guy to show that Jordan type all around dominance at the SG spot. He was the best scorer, defender, and passer at the SG spot during his peak. And he was very athletic with long ass arms at 6'2. He was arguably the best shooter of all time as well to go along with that. Their are VERY few great shooters who were also very good-great all around players. U got West, Bird, Mullin, and Allen off the top of my head.

[Yanch856]

Mugsy Bogues

[CavaliersFTW]

Great point! If u include guys 6'2 then these guys HAVE TO BE ON THE LIST:

West
Marbury
Parker

And GOAT wise, West would be number one with a bullet. And Peak value wise West would be number one as well. It doesn't get any better than West pound for pound. West was the first guy to show that Jordan type all around dominance at the SG spot. He was the best scorer, defender, and passer at the SG spot during his peak. And he was very athletic with long ass arms at 6'2. He was arguably the best shooter of all time as well to go along with that. Their are VERY few great shooters who were also very good-great all around players. U got West, Bird, Mullin, and Allen off the top of my head.

West was 6'2.75 in his bare feet, - same height as John Wall and other players who normally are listed ~6'4 - u sure you wanna include West?

[winnnaz]

Earl The Pearl?
haven't heard anyone mention him yet.

[bizil]

West was 6'2.75 in his bare feet, - same height as John Wall and other players who normally are listed ~6'4 - u sure you wanna include West?

For my original list I included guys 6'1 and under. When I think lil men, I think 6'1 and under. But somebody mentioned West and I said ya if it's for guys 6'2 and under then West would be number one.

U bring up a great point about height. Those guys in the 60's would be listed a inch or two more today it seems. So for example, would Big O be listed as 6'7. Or would Wilt be 7'3 and Russell 7'0? I don't consider West on the same tier size wise as Isiah, AI, or CP3. I always saw him in that 6'2 - 6'3 range which speaks to the great point u made!

[CavaliersFTW]

For my original list I included guys 6'1 and under. When I think lil men, I think 6'1 and under. But somebody mentioned West and I said ya if it's for guys 6'2 and under then West would be number one.

U bring up a great point about height. Those guys in the 60's would be listed a inch or two more today it seems. So for example, would Big O be listed as 6'7. Or would Wilt be 7'3 and Russell 7'0? I don't consider West on the same tier size wise as Isiah, AI, or CP3. I always saw him in that 6'2 - 6'3 range which speaks to the great point u made!

Yes to all of that. Since the 1980's, 9 times out of 10 players are listed anywhere from 1-2 sometimes even 3" above their barefoot height. There are a few exceptions but, I just know West was pretty big compared to most of the other guys mentioned so far.

[Lebron23]

West was 6'2.75 in his bare feet, - same height as John Wall and other players who normally are listed ~6'4 - u sure you wanna include West?


West looks like 6'1.75" or barely 6'2" with 6'4 3/4" or 6'5" Rookie Kobe Bryant.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/182733/FIrst-round-dfart-pick-Kobe-Bryant-poses-with-new-LA-Lakers-jersey-after-making-deal_medium.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

West looks like 6'1.75" or barely 6'2" with 6'4 3/4" or 6'5" Rookie Kobe Bryant.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/182733/FIrst-round-dfart-pick-Kobe-Bryant-poses-with-new-LA-Lakers-jersey-after-making-deal_medium.jpg

:facepalm

I don't care what he looks like in a photograph. He's 6'2.75... On the rare occasion cited as low as 6'2.5" if you want to knock him down a peg.

Camera angles, where they're standing, their posture, the fact that he's really freaking old, the "who's wearing what kind of shoes" factor... don't waste your time analyzing photographs. It's in his auto-biographies etc that in his playing years he was measured to be 6'2.75" in his stocking feet.

[iDefend5]

:facepalm @ the people whining about the height of players.

[La Frescobaldi]

was tiny really better than isiah

No. Yer right, he wasn't.

[hkfosho]

Rose and john wall in 10 years.