Derrick Rose vs. Russel Westbrook: The Debate On Athleticism

[koBEDABEST]

These two men are widly considered to be the two most athletic point guards in the world, if not guards. I've seen various argumentative series of posts here and there but can't recall any formal thread being created.

So here it is.

Derrick Rose vs. Russel Westbrook: The Debate On Athleticism

You may consider these following things when picking a side:
-Leaping Ability
-Explosiveness
-Speed
-Quickness
-Agility
-Strength

[Tenchi Ryu]

I'd give it to Rose, mostly cause how he makes decisions with his athleticism. Westbrook is awesome, but can be a little reckless with it, more raw. Rose's looks more polished and does a better job evading. So I'm going with Rose, but you definitely can't go wrong with Westbrook either.

[d21221hk]

imm go with rose

[dunksby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJONh_5JHSQ

[Fudge]

Leaping Ability - Westbrook
Speed - Equal
Quickness - Rose
Agility - Rose
Strength - Rose

And I'm a Westbrook fan.

[OKCThunderUP]

Why can't they just be equally athletic?

[LABean]

I'd easily take Westbrook.

[(e)]

I'd give it to Rose, mostly cause how he makes decisions with his athleticism. Westbrook is awesome, but can be a little reckless with it, more raw. Rose's looks more polished and does a better job evading. So I'm going with Rose, but you definitely can't go wrong with Westbrook either.
I would agree with this. Both are definitely on the same level on just about every category listed.

Coming into the league here are their predraft numbers.
Rose: 34.5 no step vert, 40 max vert, 10 bench press, 11.69 lane agility, 3.05 3/4 court sprint

Westbrook: 30 no step vert, 36.5 max vert, 12 bench press, 10.98 lane agility, 3.08 3/4 court sprint

Obviously those numbers could of changed a little bit, but both are pretty identical and I'd say athletically they're still very identical today.

[MontaHardaway]

I'd take Westbrook. his back ain't broke

[OKCThunderUP]

I would agree with this. Both are definitely on the same level on just about every category listed.

Coming into the league here are their predraft numbers.
Rose: 34.5 no step vert, 40 max vert, 10 bench press, 11.69 lane agility, 3.05 3/4 court sprint

Westbrook: 30 no step vert, 36.5 max vert, 12 bench press, 10.98 lane agility, 3.08 3/4 court sprint

Obviously those numbers could of changed a little bit, but both are pretty identical and I'd say athletically they're still very identical today.

I think Westbrook's vert has changed significantly since he came into the league. He made that a point of focus this offseason and it shows. Royce Young (DailyThunder) thinks he's added at least 5" to his vert...which puts him right there with Rose assuming Rose has not increased his since entering the league.

They both have to be over 40" vert running. Have to be. They get way too high on dunks and blocks and such.

[Rnbizzle]

They're pretty equal overall. Westbrook is more explosive but Rose is more agile and has way better body control.

Rose is better at controlling himself though, Westbrook still gets out of control some times but he's definitely getting better compared to last year.

[(e)]

I think Westbrook's vert has changed significantly since he came into the league. He made that a point of focus this offseason and it shows. Royce Young (DailyThunder) thinks he's added at least 5" to his vert...which puts him right there with Rose assuming Rose has not increased his since entering the league.

They both have to be over 40" vert running. Have to be. They get way too high on dunks and blocks and such.
Definitely wouldn't be surprised. I think tossing both those guys a basketball and putting them on the court is a little different than having them jump on a vert tree too.

I really think they're comparable in just about every way in terms of athletic ability, both just freaks on the court.

[OKCThunderUP]

Definitely wouldn't be surprised. I think tossing both those guys a basketball and putting them on the court is a little different than having them jump on a vert tree too.

I really think they're comparable in just about every way in terms of athletic ability, both just freaks on the court.

Exactly. I'm not sure why one has to be more athletic than the other. They both know how to exploit that athleticism to score the ball. I'd rather just sit back and enjoy it while it lasts because when they start losing it we'll be reminiscing about the days when they could jump through the top of the stadium.

[BullsDynasty]

I'd take Rose by a slight margin because of his quickness and body control.

[ZenMaster]

It's so close I don't care, they're on the same level. One being just a bit ahead of the other isn't what's going to seperate them in terms of basketball players.

[tikay0]

Much respect to everyone that posted. i have to agree. their both so similar athletically, you really cant go wrong with either one. lets enjoy them while their here.:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

These two men are widly considered to be the two most athletic point guards in the world, if not guards. I've seen various argumentative series of posts here and there but can't recall any formal thread being created.

So here it is.

Derrick Rose vs. Russel Westbrook: The Debate On Athleticism

You may consider these following things when picking a side:
-Leaping Ability
-Speed
-Agility
-Strength

Player Measurements
Height W/O Shoes:
Westbrook: 6'2.25" > Rose: 6'1.5"

Weight: (2008)
Rose: 196 > Westbrook: 192
Either of them may have gained 5-10 lbs, probably a virtual tie

Wingspan:
Rose: 6'8 ~= Westbrook: 6'7.75"

Standing Reach:
Rose: 8'2.5" < Westbrook: 8'4"

-Leaping Ability
Standing Vert: (2008)
Rose: 34.5" > Westbrook: 30.0"

Standing Vert Reach:
Rose: 11'1" > Westbrook: 10'10"

Max Vert: (2008)
Rose: 40.0" > Westbrook: 36.5"

Max Vert Reach:
Rose: 11' 6.5" > Westbrook: 11' 4.5"

On paper and in games, Westbrook's best leaps seem to be slightly more dependent on if he's had a momentous start - Westbrook's superior length almost makes their difference in Vert negligible but between the two Rose can get up higher particularly when conditions do not allow a full head of steam

-Speed
3/4 court sprint: (2008)
Rose: 3.06 ~= Westbrook: 3.08
Both are fast as ****. Based on their length, Rose maybe accelerates a hair quicker Westbrook probably has the slightly higher top speed.

-Agility
Lane Agility: (2008)
Rose: 11.69 > Westbrook: 10.98
Rose wins, even watching footage I can tell he's more agile.

-Strength
Bench Press: (2008)
Westbrook: 12 > Rose: 10
Both are are strong point guards. Rose is smaller in height but heavier and more explosive and so it seems he has the naturally stronger core. Westbrook might have the naturally stronger upper body as indicated by the Bench Press reps in 2008. Both are only marginally different in strength.

VERDICT:

It's a Draw.

Westbrook is longer and taller, probably has a higher top speed too. IMO this makes him a slightly better open court fast-break athlete.

Rose is slightly more explosive, agile, and more compact. He's more likely to succeed than Westbrook is if he's forced to worm his way inside a crowded key w/o a head start, and once he's there he's also more likely to be able to finish it with a slam.

[oolalaa]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

Westbrook is a great athlete. Rose is one of the greatest athletes in NBA history.

Just use your eyes people - Rose is a freak. Rose has one of the quickest 1st steps the league has ever seen, and imo, is the fastest accelerating player of all time (have you ever seen someone blow by Rondo off the dribble - who is one of the quickest players in the league today - as easily as Rose does?? :rockon: it's crazy). Rose is explosive in ways that Westbrook can only dream of (watch his legs when he goes up for a jump shot. It's like he has springs on the soles of his feet :oldlol: )

He also jumps a good 3/4 inches higher than Russ as well - I always get the impression that Westbrook is stretching just ever so slightly when he dunks, just like Wade. I never get that impression with Rose.

And don't forget agility. Very few players in the league can contort their body like Rose does when he's driving to the hoop. Westbrook is not one of them.

[oolalaa]

Player Measurements
Height W/O Shoes:
Westbrook: 6'2.25" > Rose: 6'1.5"

Weight: (2008)
Rose: 196 > Westbrook: 192
Either of them may have gained 5-10 lbs, probably a virtual tie

Wingspan:
Rose: 6'8 ~= Westbrook: 6'7.75"

Standing Reach:
Rose: 8'2.5" < Westbrook: 8'4"

-Leaping Ability
Standing Vert: (2008)
Rose: 34.5" > Westbrook: 30.0"

Standing Vert Reach:
Rose: 11'1" > Westbrook: 10'10"

Max Vert: (2008)
Rose: 40.0" > Westbrook: 36.5"

Max Vert Reach:
Rose: 11' 6.5" > Westbrook: 11' 4.5"

On paper and in games, Westbrook's best leaps seem to be slightly more dependent on if he's had a momentous start - Westbrook's superior length almost makes their difference in Vert negligible but between the two Rose can get up higher particularly when conditions do not allow a full head of steam

-Speed
3/4 court sprint: (2008)
Rose: 3.06 ~= Westbrook: 3.08
Both are fast as ****. Based on their length, Rose maybe accelerates a hair quicker Westbrook probably has the slightly higher top speed.

-Agility
Lane Agility: (2008)
Rose: 11.69 > Westbrook: 10.98
Rose wins, even watching footage I can tell he's more agile.

-Strength
Bench Press: (2008)
Westbrook: 12 > Rose: 10
Both are are strong point guards. Rose is smaller in height but heavier and more explosive and so it seems he has the naturally stronger core. Westbrook might have the naturally stronger upper body as indicated by the Bench Press reps in 2008. Both are only marginally different in strength.

VERDICT:

It's a Draw.

Westbrook is longer and taller, probably has a higher top speed too. IMO this makes him a slightly better open court fast-break athlete.

Rose is slightly more explosive, agile, and more compact. He's more likely to succeed than Westbrook is if he's forced to worm his way inside a crowded key w/o a head start, and once he's there he's also more likely to be able to finish it with a slam.

That's some failed logic right there. Their 3/4 sprints are identical....yet Westbrook is a "slightly better open court fast-break athlete"? hmmmmmmm

And you're right, Rose is more explosive, agile, compact and a better leaper. So how is it a draw? :confusedshrug: :lol

[KDthunderup]

Leaping Ability - Westbrook
Speed - Equal
Quickness - Rose
Agility - Rose
Strength - Rose

And I'm a Westbrook fan.
Durability - Westbrook

[OKCThunderUP]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

Westbrook is a great athlete. Rose is one of the greatest athletes in NBA history.

Just use your eyes people - Rose is a freak. Rose has one of the quickest 1st steps the league has ever seen, and imo, is the fastest accelerating player of all time (have you ever seen someone blow by Rondo off the dribble - who is one of the quickest players in the league today - as easily as Rose does?? :rockon: it's crazy). Rose is explosive in ways that Westbrook can only dream of (watch his legs when he goes up for a jump shot. It's like he has springs on the soles of his feet :oldlol: )

He also jumps a good 3/4 inches higher than Russ as well - I always get the impression that Westbrook is stretching just ever so slightly when he dunks, just like Wade. I never get that impression with Rose.

And don't forget agility. Very few players in the league can contort their body like Rose does when he's driving to the hoop. Westbrook is not one of them.

You are incredibly delusional.

[Fudge]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

Westbrook is a great athlete. Rose is one of the greatest athletes in NBA history.

Just use your eyes people - Rose is a freak. Rose has one of the quickest 1st steps the league has ever seen, and imo, is the fastest accelerating player of all time (have you ever seen someone blow by Rondo off the dribble - who is one of the quickest players in the league today - as easily as Rose does?? :rockon: it's crazy). Rose is explosive in ways that Westbrook can only dream of (watch his legs when he goes up for a jump shot. It's like he has springs on the soles of his feet :oldlol: )

He also jumps a good 3/4 inches higher than Russ as well - I always get the impression that Westbrook is stretching just ever so slightly when he dunks, just like Wade. I never get that impression with Rose.

And don't forget agility. Very few players in the league can contort their body like Rose does when he's driving to the hoop. Westbrook is not one of them.
It is a debate actually. It's not that clear cut as you make it out to be. Quit being biased, it's hard to even tell at the moment.

[oolalaa]

You are incredibly delusional.

You're name is OKCThunderUP. I couldn't care less what you say. At least i'm not biased, which you inevitably are. I'm just being honest.

Yes okay, it definitely is a good debate - same position, same type of player, both are great athletes. However, one is clearly more athletic than the other.

To me, it's similar to the Kobe vs Jordan. Kobe was a phenomenal athlete but MJ was a notch above - clearly superior.

[oolalaa]

It is a debate actually. It's not that clear cut as you make it out to be. Quit being biased, it's hard to even tell at the moment.

lmfao, the Thunder/Westbrook homer brigade has arrived :lol Just read my post above ^

[OKCThunderUP]

You're name is OKCThunderUP. I couldn't care less what you say. At least i'm not biased, which you inevitably are. I'm just being honest.

Yes okay, it definitely is a good debate - same position, same type of player, both are great athletes. However, one is clearly more athletic than the other.

To me, it's similar to the Kobe vs Jordan. Kobe was a phenomenal athlete but MJ was a notch above - clearly superior.

You are literally the only one in here who thinks either player is "clearly more athletic than the other" so my bias (or lack thereof) has no weight on your argument. You are delusional and you're a god damned moron as well if you honestly believe what you're typing right now.

[Swaggin916]

Like another poster said Rose knows how to use his athleticism better so I'd give it to him. He has way better body control and is much quicker off the dribble.... and Westbrook is lighting fast too so it really says something. Rose is the most freakish bball athlete I have ever seen. At 6'2 he finishes like someone 6'8 or taller and is like Bruce Lee quick it's unreal.

[eliteballer]

Ellis is up there. Rose said he's a better leaper than him.

[Jotaro Durant]

its a tie

u bulls need to get the monotones dick out ur mouth

[oolalaa]

You are literally the only one in here who thinks either player is "clearly more athletic than the other" so my bias (or lack thereof) has no weight on your argument. You are delusional and you're a god damned moron as well if you honestly believe what you're typing right now.

Okay dunce boy, Who was the better athlete, Kobe or Jordan? Only a god damn moron would say that they were equal. They are close(ish) but MJ is CLEARLY athletically superior. It's exactly the same with Rose/Westbrook.

And last I checked, 90% of Americans believe in 'GOD'. My being in the minority doesn't necessarily mean I'm delusional.

[nathanjizzle]

sorry, but only idiots would try to debate this topic.

[OKCThunderUP]

Okay dunce boy, Who was the better athlete, Kobe or Jordan? Only a god damn moron would say that they were equal. They are close(ish) but MJ is CLEARLY athletically superior. It's exactly the same with Rose/Westbrook.

And last I checked, 90% of Americans believe in 'GOD'. My being in the minority doesn't necessarily mean I'm delusional.

Alright well I'm convinced now that you're trolling so I'm done here. lol

[oolalaa]

Alright well I'm convinced now that you're trolling so I'm done here. lol

:facepalm

You're clueless.

[CavaliersFTW]

That's some failed logic right there. Their 3/4 sprints are identical....yet Westbrook is a "slightly better open court fast-break athlete"? hmmmmmmm

And you're right, Rose is more explosive, agile, compact and a better leaper. So how is it a draw? :confusedshrug: :lol

Well, for starters, those are just pre-draft measurements and tell us about the athletes at that time (2008). Both likely improved in some areas since then because they physically look stronger now. In my eyes neither of them is the clear-cut winner or loser as far as athleticism is concerned. In footage, Westbrook looks like he is faster in a straight line on the break but maybe I'm wrong. Who cares anyways? :confusedshrug: At least I took the time to type out and bring some facts to the table - thanks for acknowledging that part...

[oolalaa]

Well, for starters, those are just pre-draft measurements and tell us about the athletes at that time (2008). Both likely improved in some areas since then because they physically look stronger now. In my eyes neither of them is the clear-cut winner or loser as far as athleticism is concerned. In footage, Westbrook looks like he is faster in a straight line on the break but maybe I'm wrong. Who cares anyways? :confusedshrug: At least I took the time to type out and bring some facts to the table - thanks for acknowledging that part...

THANK YOU CavaliersFTW. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. YOU HAVE BROUGHT RELEVANT, INTERESTING STATISTICAL EVIDENCE TO THIS THREAD AND I APPLAUD YOU FOR IT. IF I COULD PLUS REP YOU, I WOULD.

Is that good enough? Please let me know if you still aren't satisfied :oldlol:

No seriously though, I do appreciate it. Draft measurements and workouts are always intriguing.

I would say they are probably equal in full court speed but Rose CLEARLY has a quicker first step and is a faster accelerator. Westbrook may be slightly longer than Rose but like I said, Rose is more agile and a better leaper. Why is it so hard for people to see that Rose has a clear athletic edge over Westbrook? :confusedshrug: That's not a slight on Russ, I just think Rose is THAT explosive.

I'll say this again....it's a very similar comparison to Kobe vs MJ. One of them is OBVIOUSLY a better athlete!!

[PP34Deuce]

Im not gonna use combine results but on game film Westbrook is tad more explosive off one foot and might be a hair faster straight-line

Rose gets up higher and is quicker i think. He also jumps higher

[Pointguard]

Rose athleticism is more tied to basketball skills, so we see him as being more athletic. As oolalaa said the first step, and stop and go with the dribble, change of directions, not needing momentum, better balance, better last step (this is why a lot of times people are stunned and don

[oolalaa]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Rose athleticism is more tied to basketball skills, so we see him as being more athletic. As oolalaa said the first step, and stop and go with the dribble, change of directions, not needing momentum, better balance, better last step (this is why a lot of times people are stunned and don

[ganja0710]

Westbrick>Rose

[ganja0710]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

Westbrook is a great athlete. Rose is one of the greatest athletes in NBA history.

Just use your eyes people - Rose is a freak. Rose has one of the quickest 1st steps the league has ever seen, and imo, is the fastest accelerating player of all time (have you ever seen someone blow by Rondo off the dribble - who is one of the quickest players in the league today - as easily as Rose does?? :rockon: it's crazy). Rose is explosive in ways that Westbrook can only dream of (watch his legs when he goes up for a jump shot. It's like he has springs on the soles of his feet :oldlol: )

He also jumps a good 3/4 inches higher than Russ as well - I always get the impression that Westbrook is stretching just ever so slightly when he dunks, just like Wade. I never get that impression with Rose.

And don't forget agility. Very few players in the league can contort their body like Rose does when he's driving to the hoop. Westbrook is not one of them.
:roll: :roll:

[stevieming]

Rose over Westbrook...

Vert about the same
Speed about the same

But what makes Rose better in my opinon is his agility and strength.

Rose can straight line drive and snake though with angles, he also finishes better with more control, whereas ninja turtle is all straight lines when he drives and he gets bumped off layups easier then Rose.

My main reason for Rose being stronger is these two plays

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ugGOjUwlCY

Any other point would be a pool of splat on the floor....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCd1qbbylag

from 1:55 onwards, just brushes off KG. Granted KG is old but the man is still 6"11/7"

Both freak athletes!! :applause:

[fefe]

I can give athleticism to Rose.
Westbrook is the better dunker though to me.

[Warners0]

Leaping Ability - Westbrook
Speed - Equal
Quickness - Rose
Agility - Rose
Strength - Rose

And I'm a Westbrook fan.

Rose has a better vertical. At least thats what their combine numbers said.

[arifgokcen]

I can give athleticism to Rose.
Westbrook is the better dunker though to me.

I think this is the best way to put it.
BTW some said rose is the most athletic player they have ever seen.May i ask how old are you?(fair question)

[liquidrage]

Rose is a more fluid athlete. Westbrook is a more explosive athlete.

I don't care about combine numbers here anymore then I care what a WR can run without a helmet or pads and no one chasing him at the combine.

In game speed Westbrook looks far more explosive. Rose looks far more fluid.

[burnsy87]

Rose has a better vertical. At least thats what their combine numbers said.

I don't know if Rose will ever have that 40" vertical again. He still has hops when he wants to, but that toe and back has made him very hesitant on dunks. I haven't seen him go up will full force and throw one down this whole season.

[TheMan]

Rose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=e04uyfgVgjY

[Tenchi Ryu]

I don't know if Rose will ever have that 40" vertical again. He still has hops when he wants to, but that toe and back has made him very hesitant on dunks. I haven't seen him go up will full force and throw one down this whole season.
Pointguard already pointed it out, Rose is all about preservation this year. He's trying to use as small amount of gas as possible this season so by the time Playoffs come, he won't be exhausted like last season. And while Dunks are impressive, they always have their risk and use a good amount of energy, especially for someone his size.

[liquidrage]

Pointguard already pointed it out, Rose is all about preservation this year. He's trying to use as small amount of gas as possible this season so by the time Playoffs come, he won't be exhausted like last season. And while Dunks are impressive, they always have their risk and use a good amount of energy, especially for someone his size.


I love the internet posters that are in the mind of pro-athletes.

Rose is all about preservation this year. Hmmm, interesting thought.
He's trying to use as small amount of gas as possible. Hmmm, interesting thought.

The only thing I know is when you spout off about that crap you have no idea what you're talking about. You have no frakin clue whether that's right or wrong. Most pro-athletes can't and don't half-ass it during game-time, they aren't wired that way. Mentally, some can be "out of it" at times or stretches, but no one frakin "plans" to be out of it.

About the only thing one could say on this is Rose has been injured and it's very possible it effects his play even when he's on the court. Beyond that it's wild guess and borderline stalkerish what you've posted.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The hell are you talking about? Rose has said himself that he wants his job to be easier, and that his only concern is the passing last year's obstacle in the playoffs. Nobody said shit about half-assing except you, the word that was used is preservation, as in distributing more instead of being the sole offense the entire game, or just putting the ball in the hole during a fast break instead of a highlight play on ESPN. Or how he's specifically said himself that he wanted to work on more effective ways to score to compared to last year.

How about you look at some Rose post game interviews before you want to put somebody in check.

[MASH Transit]

The hell are you talking about? Rose has said himself that he wants his job to be easier, and that his only concern is the passing last year's obstacle in the playoffs. Nobody said shit about half-assing except you, the word that was used is preservation, as in distributing more instead of being the sole offense the entire game, or just putting the ball in the hole during a fast break instead of a highlight play on ESPN. Or how he's specifically said himself that he wanted to work on more effective ways to score to compared to last year.

How about you look at some Rose post game interviews before you want to put somebody in check.

So all that means he doesn't dunk? What?

[burnsy87]

So all that means he doesn't dunk? What?

He still dunks plenty, he just doesn't throw it down with the authority he has in years past.

Cocked back so far the ball touches his back, throwing the ball through the floor kind of dunks were common before this year. He hasn't done it this year as far as I can remember.

[TheMan]

He said it himself that he was going to pace himself this season, he said last year his legs weren't there in the playoffs and this year he was gonna perserve something extra for the playoffs...I think that's a smart strategy.

If that still goes over your head, I don't know what else to tell ya.

[TheMan]

The hell are you talking about? Rose has said himself that he wants his job to be easier, and that his only concern is the passing last year's obstacle in the playoffs. Nobody said shit about half-assing except you, the word that was used is preservation, as in distributing more instead of being the sole offense the entire game, or just putting the ball in the hole during a fast break instead of a highlight play on ESPN. Or how he's specifically said himself that he wanted to work on more effective ways to score to compared to last year.

How about you look at some Rose post game interviews before you want to put somebody in check.
He is also trusting his team mates more this year, last year he would go ham all game but this year he picks his spots.

[Pointguard]

I love the internet posters that are in the mind of pro-athletes.

Rose is all about preservation this year. Hmmm, interesting thought.
He's trying to use as small amount of gas as possible. Hmmm, interesting thought.

The only thing I know is when you spout off about that crap you have no idea what you're talking about. You have no frakin clue whether that's right or wrong. Most pro-athletes can't and don't half-ass it during game-time, they aren't wired that way. Mentally, some can be "out of it" at times or stretches, but no one frakin "plans" to be out of it.

About the only thing one could say on this is Rose has been injured and it's very possible it effects his play even when he's on the court. Beyond that it's wild guess and borderline stalkerish what you've posted.
If you ever played ball and you are shorter than 6'5 you know that you can conserve energy by not dunking. If you dunk three times in a row you know that its an energy drain. Allen Iverson used to be a fercious dunker. But after two years in the league he preferred to lay it in. Once MJ won a title and he knew teams were gunning for him - he cut it down tremendously. And he's about 6'9 when you consider his long reach. Rose is doing the same thing. That's all Tenchi was saying.

[ILLsmak]

I'd give it to Rose, mostly cause how he makes decisions with his athleticism. Westbrook is awesome, but can be a little reckless with it, more raw. Rose's looks more polished and does a better job evading. So I'm going with Rose, but you definitely can't go wrong with Westbrook either.

That has nothing to do with athleticism. Raw athleticism I think Westbrook is better. Why do we have to make our stars out to be some gods and defend them? Westbrook is a monster.

-Smak

[liquidrage]

If you ever played ball and you are shorter than 6'5 you know that you can conserve energy by not dunking. If you dunk three times in a row you know that its an energy drain. Allen Iverson used to be a fercious dunker. But after two years in the league he preferred to lay it in. Once MJ won a title and he knew teams were gunning for him - he cut it down tremendously. And he's about 6'9 when you consider his long reach. Rose is doing the same thing. That's all Tenchi was saying.


STFU. Here's what was wrote mindreader



Rose is all about preservation this year. He's trying to use as small amount of gas as possible this season so by the time Playoffs come, he won't be exhausted like last season. And while Dunks are impressive, they always have their risk and use a good amount of energy, especially for someone his size.


So while you and DRose were out drinking last night he confided in you that he's conserving gas during the regular season. Not only that but his master plan is to avoid dunking because those 15 drunks he laid in instead will be a big boon to him come playoffs.

Ass.

[pauk]

-Leaping Ability =
1. Wall
2. Westbrook
3. Rose

-Explosiveness =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Speed =
1. Wall
2. Rose
3. Westbrook

-Quickness =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Agility =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Strength =
1. Westbrook
2. Wall
3. Rose

But to be honest... im not 100% sure.... i dont think there is much difference between Rose/Westbrook/Wall athleticism, if there is then the difference is microscopical....

[keep-itreal]

Westbrook jumps much higher, takes off with ease.

[tikay0]

When you watch them play, rose is faster and quicker in straight line and in traffic. rose can get up higher and takes contact as well as or even better than any pg in the history of the game. so thats 3 reasons why hes a better athlete than westbrick.

[SwooshReturns]

He said it himself that he was going to pace himself this season, he said last year his legs weren't there in the playoffs and this year he was gonna perserve something extra for the playoffs...I think that's a smart strategy.
For sure, he needs to be MVP caliber v.s. the Heat.

The only time this season I've seen him go all out was that game v.s. the Clippers where he abused CP3.

And the 2nd half of the game v.s. Miami.

[burnsy87]

-Leaping Ability =
1. Wall
2. Westbrook
3. Rose

-Explosiveness =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Speed =
1. Wall
2. Rose
3. Westbrook

-Quickness =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Agility =
1. Rose
2. Westbrook
3. Wall

-Strength =
1. Westbrook
2. Wall
3. Rose
But to be honest... im not 100% sure.... i dont think there is much difference between Rose/Westbrook/Wall athleticism, if there is then the difference is microscopical....


Did you honestly just put Rose at the bottom for strength?

Ok, put westbrook above him, even though I think Rose is the strongest point guard in the world. The problem is, you put John Freaking Wall ahead of him in strength.

John Wall looks like a 12 year old child next to Rose.

[pauk]

Did you honestly just put Rose at the bottom for strength?

Ok, put westbrook above him, even though I think Rose is the strongest point guard in the world. The problem is, you put John Freaking Wall ahead of him in strength.

John Wall looks like a 12 year old child next to Rose.

Like i said... im not sure lol... the difference (if any) is microscopical

[kingBynum]

westbrook beats rose in all

[Pointguard]

So while you and DRose were out drinking last night he confided in you that he's conserving gas during the regular season. Not only that but his master plan is to avoid dunking because those 15 drunks he laid in instead will be a big boon to him come playoffs.


:lol Yo, you have to be the stuuuuupidest person on this forum. Can you even read a lick. I said it first. He reiterates it. I clarify it for you and now you are still stuck in the mud. He, nor I, say Rose told either one of us anything. You can't tell when someone is playing it safe or conserving their energy??? Do you play any sports at all? You aparently never even had a fight.

Smart people conserve if they ever had a situation where their energy was ever depleted. Dunking requires extra energy for style points, its not about substance or added value (cept maybe in a home game). Its not necessary. You keep your energy for your ultimate goals.

[Pointguard]

Like i said... im not sure lol... the difference (if any) is microscopical
LOL, yeah right, you know it moreso than most. Rose is strong enough that Wade doesn't use his strength on him like he does everybody else. So my guess is you seen both Wall and Westbrook body up on Wade. I know you watch all the games, too. I seen Billups bully Deron Williams, but he doesn't even try it with Rose. Kidd might be the only PG with the same strength as Rose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcX4gRkuKk On the break away here Rose initiates contact with Wade twice. Wade ends up in the stands knowing Rose is going at him.

[I.R.Beast]

Leaping Ability - Rose
Speed - Rose
Quickness - Rose
Agility - Rose
Strength - Rose

And im more of a westbrook fan, Because he's more emphatic when finishing at the rim...He's trying to smash everyone. Rose however is more dominant and harder to stop from getting what and where he wants.

[CHi1PriDe]

What do the Chicago Bulls, Oklahoma CityThunder and Washington Wizards have in common? They all boast athletic, scoring point guards. Indeed, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and John Wall are three of the most compelling athletes ever at the point guardposition. All three were born within 23 months of each other, making this a golden age of athletic point guards.

With an MVP award on his r

[All Net]

I would give Westbrook the edge but what makes both so speical with their speed is their change of direction and the way they can get so close to the basket from outside the three point line so easily...only takes a matter of seconds.

[I.R.Beast]

westbrook doesn/t jump higher than rose his arms are just longer....

[Shepseskaf]

To my eyes, Westbrook is a more fluid athlete. Rose's movements tend to be almost awkward at times. But Rose is a better player who's decision making is far more advanced. Westbrook would never be able to lead his team the way Rose has.

[MASH Transit]

To my eyes, Westbrook is a more fluid athlete. Rose's movements tend to be almost awkward at times. But Rose is a better player who's decision making is far more advanced. Westbrook would never be able to lead his team the way Rose has.

Yea, the Bulls 7-3 record without Rose supports that.

[Pointguard]

Westbrook is as close to a perfect leaper as there is. He owns a high vertical leap, the ability to take off from far out and his versatility in jumping effectively off of one foot or two make him the complete package. Westbrook was third in the league among guards in dunks (52) and had almost as many as Rose and Wall combined (58). Russell Westbrook Glenn James/NBAE/Getty ImagesRussell Westbrook could use some more muscle to ward off physical defenders.

The Thunder point guardalso hasthe unique ability to create a late burst with his last two steps -- after he picks up his dribble --allowing him to essentially accelerate in the air, rendering most help defense useless. Westbrook's long arms also allow him to time follow-up dunks while taking off from outside the charge circle.

Wall is at his best exploding off his vertical to catch alley-oops, which he can finish with authority. But his hang time and elevation don't quitematchupto Westbrook's.

Rose 9.5, Westbrook 10, Wall 9.5

Speed

When it comes to speed, we're talking end-to-end speed, arguably a point guard's most useful physical tool. From one foul line to the other, there is no faster player in the game than Wall. His speed is such that he can create a fast break out of almost any turnover, loose ball or rebound. While most players begin to decelerate and look for an open wing or trailer once crossing half court, Wall continues to accelerate until the defense can no longer keep up.

Often this will take Wall below the foul line, putting him in a position to shoot. It can also take him too far under the rim, which can sometimes lead to low-percentage shot attempts. But for the most part it works; Wall was second in the league with 5.6 fast-break points per game last year.

Rose is not quiteas speedyas Wallbutinmanywaysuseshis speed more effectively. The edge Rose has over Wall is that he operates with more control. There's a fine line between going full tilt and turningover the ball. Infact, ifWallslowed down, he would certainly trim his average of 3.8 turnovers per game.

Westbrook likes to push but not with the determination and zeal of Rose or Wall. Often he brings the ball upcourt at a measured trot with his bodyupright, then goes into attack mode when he sees an opening. The difference: Rose and Wall's quickness creates openings while Westbrook just exploits them.

Rose 9.5, Westbrook 9, Wall 10

Quickness

Top-flight point guards have to consistently beat their man off the dribble whether they are of the pass-first variety or have a scorer's mentality. The kind of quickness that matters most is 3-point line-to-basket quickness.

Rose has the game's best first step regardless of position. Rose sets up much of his penetration with left-to-right crossovers or simple head fakes to get the defender to lean before exploding in the opposite direction. Much like a running back who plants his foot and explodes upfield, Rose can quickly turn the corner and exploit most holes in defenses. But his true skill is being able to change directions several times from the 3-point line to the rim without sacrificing speed, which leaves help defenders flat-footed. Rose is also good at coming down from speed, which can be as tricky for defenders to handle as his initial burst.

Westbrook's deceptive quickness is better suited for the half-court game as he likes to use low dribbles to split double-teams and has a second step just as quick as his first, allowing him to get up to speed in tight spaces. In many ways -- thanks to long arms and excellent floor vision -- Westbrook is just as dangerous as Rose. But Rose's quickness is a cut above.

Wall has a nice variety of setup moves to initiate his ample quickness but simply doesn't put defenders on notice the way his counterparts do. For all Wall's quickness he averages only 1.9 points at the rim in the half-court set. Too often Wall settles for an outside shot, which decreases the number of times he can use his quickness. Either way Wall takes a backseat to Rose and Westbrook in this category.

Rose 10, Westbrook 9.5, Wall 9

Strength

Thanks to a powerful build and tree trunk-like legs, Rose makes this the most one-sided category. Rose's strength puts nearly everyone he faces at a disadvantage. When he turns the corner with his dribble, defenders are forced to be as physical as possible to prevent him from getting to the hole, which often results in overzealous hacking that sends him to the line. Rose ranks 11th in free throw attempts with 6.85 attempts per game.

In the air he invites contact, which ironically almost seems to stabilize him as he double-clutches his way to yet another reverse layup.

Westbrook is no slouch in this category but doesn't exactly turn heads. He won't bully you like Deron Williams but has shown resiliency in taking contact at the rim. Rarely do hard fouls discourage him. Putting on five to 10 more pounds of muscle would make Westbrook near impervious to midair assaults from opposing guards. Derick Rose, John Wall Geoff Burke/US PresswireJohn Wall is young, but in time he could rise to Rose's level.

Wall's strength is one of the more underrated aspects of his game. At 6-foot-4 and blessed with excellent size -- broad shoulders and long arms -- Wall's strength will be an even bigger asset when he develops a post game and begins to take smaller guards on the block. But Wall's speed and quickness is so effective that he rarely resorts to strength as a means of gaining an advantage.

Rose 10, Westbrook 9, Wall 8.5 Balance

Balance is one of the most overlooked athletic attributes yet easily one of the most important. It's the building block all athletic fundamentals are built upon. Excellent balance allows players to operate at speed, quickly change direction and absorb contact while still getting off a shot. Rose's excellent balance and agility allow him to tie together each of his abilities seamlessly, which results in near athletic perfection when operating on the floor. That balance is the source of his ability to stop and start so suddenly and shift to a higher gear on hispenetration.

Westbrook also shines in this category, particularly in the air, as he effectively gets off shots when bumped while high above ground. Good thing, since Westbrook often takes off from one foot, making him easier to knock off balance. His gaudy 10.2 points in the paint per game ranks 14th overall ahead of both Rose and Wall.

This category is where Wall falls way short. A lack of balance is Wall's biggest weakness. Ironically, his brilliant speed might contribute to his wobbly ways, as he can sometimes move too fast for his own good and find himself out of control. Also his center of gravity at speed is so low that the faster he goes he tends to lean forward, causinghimto lose his balance, especially if he's bumped.

Rose 9.5, Westbrook 9, Wall 7

Final score: Rose 48.5, Westbrook 46.5, Wall 44

Even among the elite athletes in the game Derrick Rose stands out as the best. From a physical standpoint the fourth-year point guard has almost no weakness. He's the fastest, strongest and most fluid NBA player of his generation at his position.

While not quiteon Rose's level, Westbrook is electrifying in his own right and has one of the most complete athletic arsenals at any position. Westbrook lacks Rose's body control and strength --which is why he finishes second -- but turns his speed and leaping ability into tangible stats in a way Rose doesn't.

Westbrook edges Rose in dunks, fast-break points, free throw attempts and points in the paint -- four key categories that point to great athleticism for small guards.

Wall still possesses game-breaking ability and is the youngest of the three. With a better understanding of how to use his immense tools he could wind up on the level of Rose and Westbrook. But for now Rose stands alone as the most athletic guard in the NBA.
:cheers: Can't believe you wrote all of that and I don't disagree with hardly any of it. Well said, well done and great work!

[icewill36]

idk why, but i dont like the fact wall is being mentioned in this thread with westbrook and rose...

hes just not nearly as good as them so please leave him out of this.

[Pointguard]

idk why, but i dont like the fact wall is being mentioned in this thread with westbrook and rose...

hes just not nearly as good as them so please leave him out of this.
Its not about how good they are. Its about their athletism.

Wall will be in, or close to their company tho... Hard to imagine him not getting a lot better.