Who Do You Take #1? Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, or Harrison Barnes?

[Rowe]

If it were me, I'd go in order:

1. Andre Drummond
2. Harrison Barnes
3. Anthony Davis


Everyone seems to love Anthony Davis, and hes probably going to win National Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, & Freshman of the Year but his game scares me as far as the NBA goes.

Hes a great shotblocker who will immediately challenge Ibaka, McGee, & Howard to be among the best at that in the NBA. However he has such a slight frame without a strong lower base due to his growth spurt that I think he'll get abused in the post early on in his NBA career. On offense he doesn't really have a legit skill to rely on although he can apparently handle the ball well due to previously being a SG.

[Grinder]

Anthony Davis at number one, no question, for me. His shot blocking is elite, he scores extremely efficiently, can pass the ball, has good form (although not yet good results) on his jumper and has broad shoulders and a frame that will fill out. Almost everything he does seems to come within the flow of the game and he makes it look easy. I was skeptical of this guy before he came to UK, but he's removed any doubts I had and I can't find a reason not to take him number one.

I'd rather have MKG than Barnes.

[Fiasco]

Davis.

And I like MKG over Barnes, but that's only because I love his defence.

[Rowe]

Anthony Davis at number one, no question, for me. His shot blocking is elite, he scores extremely efficiently, can pass the ball, has good form (although not yet good results) on his jumper and has broad shoulders and a frame that will fill out. Almost everything he does seems to come within the flow of the game and he makes it look easy. I was skeptical of this guy before he came to UK, but he's removed any doubts I had and I can't find a reason not to take him number one.

I'd rather have MKG than Barnes.
Valid points.

But you're basically taking a gamble on him as far as his development into an actual impact player on both ends in the NBA. For a guy to go #1 you really want to be sure that they have the tools already there for their development to be gradual. I've never seen as good of a shotblocker as Davis since Shawn Bradley, but keeping that in mind I just cant overlook his lack of an offensive game and rebounding.

He scores efficiently, and primarily off of dunks, on the college level but as he gets to the NBA those type of baskets aren't going to come easy espescially at the Forward position. On the other hand Drummond due to his complete mismatch athletically with nearly every NBA C will be able to get those easy buckets until he improves on a back to basket game.

I like Kidd-Gilchrist but there isn't any way I'd take him over Barnes. Im really starting to think that the simple fact Barnes came back for a Sophmore season has allowed far too much emphasis to be put on his perceived "weaknesses". Gilchrist has some legit weaknesses in his game as well, specifically his shot mechanics. Although Barnes has shown iffy shot selection at times this season but he projects easily as an impact perimeter player from Year 1 in the NBA much like Kevin Durant & Melo did. He can handle the ball, create his own shot off the dribble, and he's previously shown the ability to hit the turnaround jumper. His 3PT% is well over 40% which should translate to the NBA level. Is the knock on him due to not being an overly impressive athlete?

[blacknapalm]

davis and that's because i see him as a new and improved marcus camby. i think his defense will be game changing. he was a guard before his huge growth spurt and i'll admit that he's been awful at creating offense at UK. still, his previous skills and him filling out his body is way too much to pass on. i think once he gets adjusted to his new role and body, he's going to be a monster. he's already more well rounded offensively than camby was at the same age. he just needs to get used to it all

i like MKG a lot too even though he doesn't have nearly the high ceiling. what he does have is a tenacious non-stop motor though. i think he's a very safe pick, albeit not #1 worthy

[Rowe]

davis and that's because i see him as a new and improved marcus camby. i think his defense will be game changing. he was a guard before his huge growth spurt and i'll admit that he's been awful at creating offense at UK. still, his previous skills and him filling out his body is way too much to pass on. i think once he gets adjusted to his new role and body, he's going to be a monster. he's already more well rounded offensively than camby was at the same age. he just needs to get used to it all

i like MKG a lot too even though he doesn't have nearly the high ceiling. what he does have is a tenacious non-stop motor though. i think he's a very safe pick.

Camby was a good NBA player despite the injuries.

But, is a potential DPOY player worth passing over a potential Franchise Player at SF in Barnes or a Top 3 C in Drummond? Each guy has a high upside so you really cant go wrong if you fill your need.

In reality it seems like either guy could go #1 depending on who gets the 1st pick.

Bobcats, Raptors, Suns, & Nets need Harrison Barnes.
Hornets, Wizards, Kings, Cavs & Pistons need Anthony Davis or Andre Drummond.

[CardiacKemba]

Howard was pretty skinny when he came into the league too. Obviously I'm not saying Davis can bulk up to the beast that Dwight is, but he could still pack on enough to make him competitively strong enough to compete in the league. He has a great skill set and is a game winning defender. I think he goes number 1.

I also agree with taking Kidd-Gilchrist over Barnes. I just like his game more, but that could be personal.

[noob cake]

GTFO Barnes is not a top 5 pick

[Rowe]

GTFO Barnes is not a top 5 pick
Really? Why not?

[EoJ]

http://www.premierball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Anthony-Davis1.png

[Kurosawa0]

Anthony Davis is going to go #1. Might ultimately be a mistake considering where the center position is right now, but Davis clearly has the momentum right now.

[Richesly]

If Hawks were ever 1st in the draft with this current team, definitely Barnes.

We could then get rid of this piece of shit bust Marvin Williams.

Hawks are like the knicks when it comes to drafting, drafting so many ****ing busts.

Marvin and Shelden... just horrible.

[kumquat]

Anthony Davis. I'm sorry, but Barnes seems like the ultimate useless pick for a mediocre franchise. Drummond will be DeAndre Jordan like.
a\http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/203573_144934522244244_8130086_n.jpg

[blablabla]

davis

[jamal99]

Drummond - beast...
Davis - skinny, no offensive game
Barnes - i just dont see him among top NBA SF's

[alenleomessi]

it might turn out like 04 okafor-howard, davis has the better rookie season but he never develops good offensive game, while drummond struggles in his rookie season but then becomes a beast

[chips93]

id take davis, then drummond. barnes probably third but hes far from clear cut top 3

drummond's lack of aggressiveness worries me, as does barnes' ability to create off of the dribble.

[ukfan22]

Are you people serious?

For anyone worried about Davis' offensive game, he has great form on his jumper and has displayed some post moves when needed. He also finishes VERY well in traffic around the rim, and I'm not talking about dunks.

He will be a face up 4, and should be the number one pick for anyone who's not an idiot.

[Eric Cartman]

Harrison Barnes is going to be Kobe-esque. Anyone who doesn't see that is completely blind.

[chips93]

Harrison Barnes is going to be Kobe-esque. Anyone who doesn't see that is completely blind.


i think it was around 10 or 15 games into the season when this stat came out

barnes didnt have a single made field goal in the paint that wasnt a fast break score, a post move or an offensive put back.

he is skilled, but its not lik hes some unstoppable scorer. last year before he desided to return for his sophmore year, he was clearly behind derrick williams and irving, in what was considered a weak draft.

[Lebron23]

Andre Drummond

[eazyduzzit10]

I think Barnes will surprise people in the pros. He has all-star potential, dude has awesome body control from what I've seen. However, Drummond and Davis have superstar potential. I'd take Davis at #1 for now. He seems like the more polished player at the moment

[christian1923]

all Harrison does is shoot, yeah he is 6'8 but he doesn't use that body. I dont see his hunger for the game. He is clutch as hell tho

[jbryan1984]

I don't really watch college but I always hear about the top guys each year and Davis sure has been the one everyone has been talking about this year.

[GOBB]

What's so good about Andre Drummond? He never shows up whenever I watch uconn.

[Nash]

http://www.premierball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Anthony-Davis1.png
Reminds me of this dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-b6uN7SUio

[SilkkTheShocker]

Someone wants MKG over Barnes? lmao

[JMT]

Unless you're inclined to deal that pick...and I don't see that being the case...I think you have to take Davis.

His frame indicates that he could still add some real bulk. Even if he doesn't, he'll be a face up 4 who can block shots for years to come. His offensive post game is just ok, but that describes 85% of the starting bigs in the NBA. Moves fluidly for a guy with his growth experience, and I think his mid-range game will develop. I think less can go wrong long term with this pick than the others, but I don't expect big immediate success.

Drummond hasn't done much to excite me. He's got good hands, decent instincts, skills, but doesn't bring them every night. And he's certainly not facing the competition we expect to see in the Big East this season. Big body but it doesn't look like "good weight" to me. If you'd like the chance to draft Al Jefferson...and I guess you could do worse in an uncertain draft class...here he is.

Barnes? I reallt thought he'd be the hands down best player in college basketball this season. The knee has slowed him a bit, as has the shift to a more natural wing position. But for a 6'8" guy he plays awfully small. Shies away from contact, doesn't drive the lane at all. Plays in spurts. I watch him at times and say he's not a Top 5 pick. Other times, I think I'd sure look foolish passing him and watching him become a Top 5 scorer.

More interested in his post season than any of the others. May be in the midst of so much talent there that we won't see him really take over games until the biggest stage.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I'd definitely take Davis, for anyone worried about his offensive game the kid just needs more touches, he's a tremendous ball handler for someone his size and has a pretty good jumper. He's the kind of guy who could come in and make an impact immediately defensively as a help defender, and still keep growing into his body for a few years before he reaches his potential. He has a great motor as well.

As for Barnes, I'd take him over Gilchrist-Kidd even though I like him more as a player. Barnes has a great jumper and he'll be a good three point shooter from day one. He could be a Michael Redd type, but never a number one option. He isn't that athletic and for whatever reason shies away from contact. He's also a horrible passer (averaging ONE assist per game this year) so he's certainly no point forward. Don't expect him to be able to carry a franchise, he has trouble creating his own shot.

Not sure about Drummond, he seems like he should be dominating college ball already with his developed frame, but he's just not. Maybe mental issues? Not sure. He could certainly develop into a top 5 C at the next level, though he's also got bust potential.

[mrhoopfan]

Anthony Davis reminds me of Eddie Griffin without the baggage. And people are so high on MKG, however I'm not sure he is better than someone like Kawhi Leonard. is he really a top 5 pick???

[Burgz]

a player like Andre Drummond's size, length and mobility comes around every 5 or 6 years

that being said Drummond is not ready to play in the NBA, he doesn't even get solid PT or production for UCONN. While he as the potential of being an impact player in the league, only his athleticism is can be considered NBA ready. He has yet to develop any part of his game (maybe shotblocking, rebounding but still not consistent enough) to a level passable in the NBA.

Anthony Davis is the best shotblocker i've seen in many MANY years in college

he has a skill set that goes largely unused because of his role in Calipari's offense but he can put the ball on the floor and he has solid range for a 4 at his age.

he has abilities that can be used in the NBA RIGHT NOW, and he is the same age as Drummond and probably weighs 50 lbs less lol. Get some meat on this dude and he will be a star in the league

[Burgz]

What's so good about Andre Drummond? He never shows up whenever I watch uconn.

i feel like Calhoun is keeping a leash on him so that he'd want to stay back a year lol

smart and sleazy move by Calhoun as always if so


those saying Barnes is a top 5 pick, not a chance

the only knocks on his game are that he is not aggressive enough getting to the rim. he has the shot. he has shown he plays defense. he has all the skills but NBA GM's are looking for stars in this draft and Barnes is a second option type player if you ask me

[Qwyjibo]

Anthony Davis, to me, is clearly a level above everyone else. There have been reports that NBA GMs feel the same way and that's he the consensus #1 guy at this point. Even Bryan Colangelo was asked about the draft in a radio interview here and he alluded to the fact that there is an obvious #1 guy right now. He didn't give a name but I think it's obvious. Also, I don't see any lottery team taking anyone else at #1. Even teams that have something decent at PF will take Davis and figure things out later. I don't see any argument against picking Davis first.

As a Raptors fan, if they get the #1 pick then absolutely I hope they take Davis and "figure things out later". Having both Davis and Valanciunas coming into the league at the same time and likely hitting their primes at the same time would be perfect. That's the kind of PF/C combo you can build around.

I like Barnes and depending on team need, I wouldn't hesitate to take him at #2. But it really depends as I don't think he's separated himself enough from the other players to be a clear #2 guy. I don't think much of Drummond but he'll get picked top 5 regardless simply based on his size and potential. I just hope the Raptors aren't a team that has to make a decision on him.

[JMT]

those saying Barnes is a top 5 pick, not a chance

the only knocks on his game are that he is not aggressive enough getting to the rim. he has the shot. he has shown he plays defense. he has all the skills but NBA GM's are looking for stars in this draft and Barnes is a second option type player if you ask me

So what three other players do you see going ahead of Barnes in this class if he's not a Top 5?

[Burgz]

So what three other players do you see going ahead of Barnes in this class if he's not a Top 5?

let me clarify

not that he is NOT WORTHY of a top 5 pick, just that he wont be taken top 5

Perry Jones, Jeremy Lamb, MKG etc., those guys are "sexy picks" for GM's and its highly likely someone will take a chance on them before Barnes

none of those players are better than Barnes RIGHT NOW, but we all know GMs will be thinking about 10 years from now

i strongly believe the tourney will decide how high Barnes gets picked

[christian1923]

So what three other players do you see going ahead of Barnes in this class if he's not a Top 5?
Thomas robinson, jeremy lamb, MHK, sullinger

[SilkkTheShocker]

Anthony Davis reminds me of Eddie Griffin without the baggage. And people are so high on MKG, however I'm not sure he is better than someone like Kawhi Leonard. is he really a top 5 pick???

MKG is going to be a bust

[chips93]

fwiw draft express released its updated top 100 prospect rankings. draft express are the best draft outlet imo, and are very highly respected

davis
drummond
MKG
robinson
sullinger
barnes
perry jones
henson
zeller
beal

that is their top 10

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/

[hawksdogsbraves]

I'd be really wary of Perry Jones, he seems to have no basketball skills to speak of despite being a great athlete. Sort of the opposite side of the coin from Jared Sullinger.

[chips93]

I'd be really wary of Perry Jones, he seems to have no basketball skills to speak of despite being a great athlete. Sort of the opposite side of the coin from Jared Sullinger.

totally agree. the basketball world has been waiting for two years for him to put it together and hes made little to no progress


even in high school, he didnt dominate. i cant remember the exact number, but he averaged under 20 ppg, for a guy with his talent, and playing in texas, this is a red flag.

hes never produced at any level. maybe the switch will flip in his head, and he'll figure it out, because he has immense talent, but more often than not, guys who come into the league lacking aggressiveness, and motor, dont improve these things in their time in the league.

really high bust potential.

[Qwyjibo]

I'd be really wary of Perry Jones, he seems to have no basketball skills to speak of despite being a great athlete. Sort of the opposite side of the coin from Jared Sullinger.
I see Perry Jones as an Andray Blatche. A big man who can score but not in an efficient manner and doesn't do anything else well. I want the Raptors to stay far away from him in the draft.

[JMT]

let me clarify

not that he is NOT WORTHY of a top 5 pick, just that he wont be taken top 5

Perry Jones, Jeremy Lamb, MKG etc., those guys are "sexy picks" for GM's and its highly likely someone will take a chance on them before Barnes

none of those players are better than Barnes RIGHT NOW, but we all know GMs will be thinking about 10 years from now

i strongly believe the tourney will decide how high Barnes gets picked


OK, just seems like you're all over the place.

First, there's not a chance that he's a Top 5 pick.

Then, he might be worthy of a Top 5 pick, but he won't get picked that high.

Then the tourney is going to determine his spot.

[FireDavidKahn]

I'm not a fan of Barnes, he seems way too passive.

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

Davis will be an impact player from the start and Drummond will be a project as a work in progress. If he develops right, I see him as an Amare 2.0. or poor man Chandler. Davis gotta shave that unibrow though...also I'm curious to see how Shabazz Muhammad does next year or what school he's going to play for.

[GOBB]

Anthony Davis reminds me of Eddie Griffin without the baggage. And people are so high on MKG, however I'm not sure he is better than someone like Kawhi Leonard. is he really a top 5 pick???

Eddie Griffin? :oldlol:

[DStebb716]

My top five at the moment:

1. Drummond - This guy has too much upside on both ends of the floor.
2. Davis - A lot of upside due to the fact he is just now getting used to being that big (huge growth spurt late in high school).
3. Kidd-Gilchrist - This guy is an amazing talent all around.
4. Harrison Barnes - I think his game is perfect for the NBA, not so much for college.
5. Perry Jones - I give him a slight edge over Thomas Robinson.

[mrhoopfan]

Eddie Griffin? :oldlol:

As a freshman Griffin averaged 18 and 11 with 4.4 blocks

[Rowe]

I see Perry Jones as an Andray Blatche. A big man who can score but not in an efficient manner and doesn't do anything else well. I want the Raptors to stay far away from him in the draft.
Agreed, hes definetly a guy to be wary of drafting. Theres always a "talent" like that in each draft class who has serious flaws in his game.

The problem is Perry Jones isn't really going to be a big man in the NBA.

To me Perry Jones will be Darius Miles 2.0.

He's far more comfortable playing as a SF which is what many scouts noted before he arrived at Baylor. Doesn't want to post up, deal with contact, nor defend the post. Baylor has thrust him into basically playing Center with their lineup and its hurt his draft stock. This is a guy who wants play on the perimeter, get out and run the floor and make an impact with his athleticism on both ends. As far as adjusting to a halfcourt offense, hes going to need to improve his jumpshot because he definetly has a good handle for a guy his size.

[Rowe]

As a freshman Griffin averaged 18 and 11 with 4.4 blocks
Thats actually a pretty good comparison.

Griffin was a better player than Anthony Davis at this stage on both ends of the floor, but had a lower upside. He never improved much from his Sophmore year of HS to his breakout Freshman season. Kinda like the OJ Mayo effect.

Davis' upside is whats intriguing because he literally is still learning the position.

My concern is that he just doesn't seem to have the skills to be a guy who makes a major impact on both ends in the NBA. I've heard of his ability to handle the ball but he just doesn't seem like a PF who can get me 20/10. I could see him getting me at the most 14/8/3 which is very good, but I dont want to take that when I could get a legit Franchise player.

[Rowe]

Harrison Barnes is going to be Kobe-esque. Anyone who doesn't see that is completely blind.

As a person who has been following his path to the NBA for the last 3-4 years or so, I'm fully sold on Harrison Barnes becoming a NBA star.

This is a guy who loves the game and is willing to put in work to make himself better at anything. I dont see how anyone can question his work ethic or talent. He models his game after Kobe and looks to have that same drive that Kobe has to be great. We really are going to see it come tournament time with how far he'll go to carry that UNC team.

Barnes is so talent he often toys with whoever is guarding him, opting for the tough shots instead of just doing 1 thing over and over again that hes successful at. Hes skilled to the point that Roy Williams isn't going to rip him over some of the shots he takes, but at the next level he's going to have to learn when to take those shots. Considering his high basketball IQ and work ethic, that will be a quick adjustment.

[GOBB]

As a freshman Griffin averaged 18 and 11 with 4.4 blocks

I remember Eddie Griffin very well, I just dont see the similarity really.

[hawksdogsbraves]

As a person who has been following his path to the NBA for the last 3-4 years or so, I'm fully sold on Harrison Barnes becoming a NBA star.

This is a guy who loves the game and is willing to put in work to make himself better at anything. I dont see how anyone can question his work ethic or talent. He models his game after Kobe and looks to have that same drive that Kobe has to be great. We really are going to see it come tournament time with how far he'll go to carry that UNC team.

Barnes is so talent he often toys with whoever is guarding him, opting for the tough shots instead of just doing 1 thing over and over again that hes successful at. Hes skilled to the point that Roy Williams isn't going to rip him over some of the shots he takes, but at the next level he's going to have to learn when to take those shots. Considering his high basketball IQ and work ethic, that will be a quick adjustment.

As someone who has watched him play a lot, what do you make of his woeful assist totals? He's only had more than 2 assists in a game once this season, and is averaging 1.0 apg on the season. Not trying to hate but people alway talk about his hight basketball IQ which somehow doesn't translate to assists.

[Rowe]

As someone who has watched him play a lot, what do you make of his woeful assist totals? He's only had more than 2 assists in a game once this season, and is averaging 1.0 apg on the season. Not trying to hate but people alway talk about his hight basketball IQ which somehow doesn't translate to assists.

Actually, I attribute it to the fact hes playing with the best pure PG in the country. Because of Marshall's presence on the court they dont need Barnes to create for either of their big men. When you see him in the half court the offense is always set up by Marshall and when Barnes touches the ball its a designed play for him to score. The rest of his points as pointed out earlier come from getting back in transition to finish baskets.

There is just a lot less ball movement in their offense with having a guy like Marshall out there. You may have noticed Barnes' low Assist average but its the same for the rest of their other 3 starters in Bullock, Henson, & Zeller.

You could also argue that he needs to attack the basket much more because typically that opens up a shot for a big man or a spot shooter when the defense draws in. So you could also see how his low assist/lack of driving to the basket goes hand in hand. I think he'll improve on that as he gets to the NBA where its a far more open game than in college.

[cuad]

I watched Perry Jones and Quincy Miller against Texas last night. Both players are terrible. Perry Jones is no better than ANTHONY RANDOLPH, and Q-Miller is already playing on one leg.

[mrhoopfan]

Rowe, you seem to actually know basketball. Keep the insightful posts coming

[JD_TO]

Eddie Griffin? :oldlol:
Eddie Griffin was a beast in college so I don't know why that comparison is so hard to believe

[CLTHornets4eva]

I see Perry Jones as an Andray Blatche. A big man who can score but not in an efficient manner and doesn't do anything else well. I want the Raptors to stay far away from him in the draft.

As a bobcats fan, perry Jones is the one don't touch of many draft pundit's top 5s. I think I'd take Davis, Drummond, Barnes, Lamb Robinson and sullinger in that order.

[GOBB]

Eddie Griffin was a beast in college so I don't know why that comparison is so hard to believe

Who said he wasnt? I said I dont see the similarities. There were alot of big men to beast in college. Dont make them one in the same. Not sure why you need to be lectured on that.

[JD_TO]

I like Beal and really feel he is going to be the best player out of this Draft. You know what you are getting out of him. No waiting for him to develop his game no waiting for him to add weight just draft him put him on the court and ball.

[Suckafree]

Everytime I've watched UCONN play Drummond has been a complete No-Show.
Missing Layups, fouling, fumbling the ball, not boxing out and missing free throws.

On the other hand every time I watch anthony davis he looks great on both ends of the floor.

I think Davis will go No.1 no matter what team gets the first pick

[GOBB]

Everytime I've watched UCONN play Drummond has been a complete No-Show.
Missing Layups, fouling, fumbling the ball, not boxing out and missing free throws.

On the other hand every time I watch anthony davis he looks great on both ends of the floor.

I think Davis will go No.1 no matter what team gets the first pick

Same here. Thats why I'm not on the guys bandwagon (Drummond). Just doesnt impress me when I see him. He has size no doubt, but game? Eh, :confusedshrug:

[el gringos]

Perry jones will not be playing sf in the nba- he is a 4. I don't think you will get a #1 scorer out of this draft, but some great prospects to build with. Davis #1 right now without knowing the teams, drummond very possible, but I don't see how any teams could pick gilcrest of barnes at 1. I would love to see Davis to the Kings

[mrhoopfan]

Who said he wasnt? I said I dont see the similarities. There were alot of big men to beast in college. Dont make them one in the same. Not sure why you need to be lectured on that.

Here is why I compare the two, "A 6-9 whirlwind with an almost unnecessary leaping ability, considering his height and reported 86-inch wingspan, Griffin had the outside shooting touch of a guard and the shot-blocking instincts of a great big man.

[JD_TO]

Who said he wasnt? I said I dont see the similarities. There were alot of big men to beast in college. Dont make them one in the same. Not sure why you need to be lectured on that.
Long athletic defensive minded big men. Mind you Griffin was the far better shooter but I see the similarities and seeing Davis just reminds me of Griffins one season at SH

[Jotaro Durant]

davis
drummond
then barmes

[CLTHornets4eva]

As someone who has watched him play a lot, what do you make of his woeful assist totals? He's only had more than 2 assists in a game once this season, and is averaging 1.0 apg on the season. Not trying to hate but people alway talk about his hight basketball IQ which somehow doesn't translate to assists.

In the unc system, ball movement is predicated on point guards moving with the ball. It is often recirculated back to point guards often at times when it doesn't need to be.

Marshall is at an all time assist clip Averaging nearly 10 per game. Early last yeah when kendall didn't play is the only info we have on Barnes without such an assist maker. Barnes averaged a little over 2 assists then, which isn't great but this is still college, we can look at the numbers the same way we would the NBA.

The thing he needs to work on the most is getting to the hole and using his physicality. Unfortunately he has less incentive to try to get the rim and get and ones and fouls, as lack on continuation constantly hurts his productivity disproportionately.

I think he is a hardworking you kid who plays with an NBA style toughness. He is playing like a better Luol Deng in college. He has kinda fallen in love with his short jumpers (which he shoots well) instead of getting to the whole, which he does well and has great touch.

He is not as much of a leaper as some imagine but it's because he is a legit NBA 6'8" and now up to almost 245 of muscle, he is much larger than the 220 he was coming out of school. However he has enough ups to still be able to get up whenever he needs too.

[bdreason]

Gimme Andre.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Barnes reminds me a lot of Marvin Williams actually, except he's a worse athlete. His 'mental toughness' and work ethic really don't seem to be anything more than semantics, I don't know where they've been demonstrated because I haven't really heard that he's a locker room leader or anything like that.

You'd think that he could pick up more than one assist per game just by driving the ball and dishing or running a pick and roll with one of their all-american big men.

[Peteballa]

If Hawks were ever 1st in the draft with this current team, definitely Barnes.

We could then get rid of this piece of shit bust Marvin Williams.

Hawks are like the knicks when it comes to drafting, drafting so many ****ing busts.

Marvin and Shelden... just horrible.

Lol. You realize Barnes is Marvin 2.0 right?

[Velocirap31]

So this draft is looking like its almost entirely big men.

[Burgz]

OK, just seems like you're all over the place.

First, there's not a chance that he's a Top 5 pick.

Then, he might be worthy of a Top 5 pick, but he won't get picked that high.

Then the tourney is going to determine his spot.

first of all youre taking my comments out of context

i said he may be WORTHY of a top 5 pick because of his ability RIGHT NOW (top 5 talent)

but if GM's will be picking based on POTENTIAL it is likely he wont be picked top 5

and the reason i said that piece at the end is that if he has a strong tournament none of the above might matter anyway if he proves he's a winner, therefore possibly increasing his chances

all of this is arbitrary anyway because outside of Davis and Drummond at 1 and 2 teams may pick for need, so if no one in the top 5 needs a SF and someone better fits, he falls out of the top 5 anyway

[Rowe]

Perry jones will not be playing sf in the nba- he is a 4. I don't think you will get a #1 scorer out of this draft, but some great prospects to build with. Davis #1 right now without knowing the teams, drummond very possible, but I don't see how any teams could pick gilcrest of barnes at 1. I would love to see Davis to the Kings

Perry Jones will be at SF in the NBA. You can't put a guy at PF who has no interest in boxing out, developing a post game, or playing any sort of low post defense. Hes not even comparable to even Anthony Randolph at this point, Randolph actually played the post and blocked shots in college.

I think you're really underrating Perry's ballhandling ability for his size. Doesn't get to showcase it too much, but he can attack the basket. Thats why I think he'll definetly be at SF in the NBA where some unfortunate team is going to hope he can improve on his shooting & find consistency in his game.

Just a hunch, but I could see Utah taking him with 1 of their Lottery picks.

Not much to lose in that situation of stockpiling "high potential" assets all 21 years and under.

[Qwyjibo]

Jones is not quick enough to play SF. At least he sure hasn't looked it this year. He'll get burned off the dribble by any perimeter-capable SF in the NBA.

He may try to play on offense like an SF (and not do it too well) but if he wants to have a career as a starter in the NBA, he needs to dedicate himself to playing like a PF because that's the only position he'll be able to defend.

[Rowe]

So this draft is looking like its almost entirely big men.
Depth at every position except PG.

Actually this draft is probably going to be deep at SG.

Terrence Ross
Austin Rivers
Bradley Beal
Jeremy Lamb
Doron Lamb
Will Barton
Dion Waiters - Biggest sleeper in this class as far as his draft stock

Missing a few upperclassmen.

[Rowe]

Jones is not quick enough to play SF. At least he sure hasn't looked it this year. He'll get burned off the dribble by any perimeter-capable SF in the NBA.

He may try to play on offense like an SF (and not do it too well) but if he wants to have a career as a starter in the NBA, he needs to dedicate himself to playing like a PF because that's the only position he'll be able to defend.

In there lies the problem with him.

Perry Jones isn't a good basketball player at this point.

He should be able to defend PF's and make an impact as far as low post defense is concerned, but he doesn't. The reason why I'm saying he'll be at SF is because he already has no success at defend PF's in the college ranks nor providing an impact with help defense(shotblocking). Because Perry is 6'11, you can already see his NBA coaches collectively facepalming seeing him attemptplaying in the low post. It just doesn't come naturally to him and after 2 years it pretty much isn't going to happen. The solution is that they'll put him at SF to hide him in hopes that at the very least he can be disruptive with his length on defense. He's still prone to getting burned by skilled SF's but as 6'11 guy out on the wing with his wingspan and athleticism, it should count for something. On offense, thats going to be the biggest work in progress because he has no real scoring ability at this point.

I just see a 6'11 version of Darius Miles looking at him.

[knickswin]

none of them really excite me, but I would go with Davis. I think he is a winner, and I think he has a decent NBA skill set.

Barnes is such a softy.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Idk how I feel about all these tweeners/face up 4's who keep coming out. From Beasley and Williams and now guys like Perry Jones and Terrence Jones, they all seem like the same kind of super athletic-no D-no fundamentals guys whose games dont translate well to the NBA.

[Rowe]

Idk how I feel about all these tweeners/face up 4's who keep coming out. From Beasley and Williams and now guys like Perry Jones and Terrence Jones, they all seem like the same kind of super athletic-no D-no fundamentals guys whose games dont translate well to the NBA.

Agreed.

Its the new craze nowadays.

Beasley's the only one of these Tweener Forwards who've come out recently who can legit score in the NBA. The list is long already and will just get longer with this crop of guys coming into the NBA.

I think thats probably why everyone admires legit PF's like Sullinger and Robinson.

[tpols]

Anthony Davis. That defense and finishing ability will translate great to the NBA nand he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. At worst, he'll be a Tyson Chandler type player.

[DRose1899]

Anthony Davis is the safest pick.. but man I dunno about I feel using #1 pick for defensive dominant player and not much offensive power on him.

Usually you use #1 pick guy like Durant and Blake that scoring for fun in college even if they play no defense... Defense can be learned or at least they can improve their hustle, but offensive upside need talent, if you see guy that can score easily you take him. Picking Davis with #1 is like picking guy like Serge Ibaka with that high pick, I'm just not too fond with that idea.

But then again Drummond and Barnes not that better option either, n picking MKG is a bit reaching.

[chicity89]

Davis on the condition he does something about that unibrow. :lol

[maxhornets]

Davis for sure, I'd almost bet money on the fact he will be an all-star more than once in his NBA career

[SilkkTheShocker]

There is no way Jones is a SF in the NBA. None.

[Rowe]

There is no way Jones is a SF in the NBA. None.
Then what do you do with him? Stick him at the end of your bench?

Based on his game right now its much easier of a transition to put him at the SF position in the NBA than at PF.

[Aidan]

I'm at UNC, and as much as I don't like to say it, I really don't think Barnes is going to be a superstar at the next level. He just doesn't dominate games that he should be at this level. Don't get me wrong, he's a really good scorer and extremely clutch, but he's never going to be your top guy on a championship team. Could see him being an All star a couple of times, and average around 18/6, but he's definitely not going to save a franchise like the Bobcats. Davis is raw, but his potential is off the charts.

[Rowe]

I'm at UNC, and as much as I don't like to say it, I really don't think Barnes is going to be a superstar at the next level. He just doesn't dominate games that he should be at this level. Don't get me wrong, he's a really good scorer and extremely clutch, but he's never going to be your top guy on a championship team. Could see him being an All star a couple of times, and average around 18/6, but he's definitely not going to save a franchise like the Bobcats. Davis is raw, but his potential is off the charts.

Only a few guys ever can really dominate the college game.

On a stacked team like UNC with all the top competition they face, his numbers are about close to what you'd think a Sophmore would be doing in the ACC. If he stuck around for all 4 years he'd probably be a 25 PPG scorer at this level.

I just wouldn't rule him out just yet.

He came back to UNC to win a Championship and solidify his college career, and once Tournament time is here I think the Black Falcon has what it takes to win them the Championship.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Only a few guys ever can really dominate the college game.

On a stacked team like UNC with all the top competition they face, his numbers are about close to what you'd think a Sophmore would be doing in the ACC. If he stuck around for all 4 years he'd probably be a 25 PPG scorer at this level.

I just wouldn't rule him out just yet.

He came back to UNC to win a Championship and solidify his college career, and once Tournament time is here I think the Black Falcon has what it takes to win them the Championship.

We'll see, I thought he got out-willed in their big games this season by Austin Rivers and Kidd-Gilchrist.

[WhySoInsecure?]

Idk how I feel about all these tweeners/face up 4's who keep coming out. From Beasley and Williams and now guys like Perry Jones and Terrence Jones, they all seem like the same kind of super athletic-no D-no fundamentals guys whose games dont translate well to the NBA.
That's AAU basketball for you. Even Greg Monroe thought he could be a SF.

[hawksdogsbraves]

That's AAU basketball for you. Even Greg Monroe thought he could be a SF.

Yeah, the guards do it too but they can get away with it a lot better at the next level.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Barnes is a much better shooter, more athletic, has better touch and ball control than Marvin. Marvin was largely a post player in college. Not really Barnes, in fact I though of marvin as one of those tweeners at Carolina.

I think barnes will be a good starter but no superstar. In this draft which I think is weaker than we originally thought, I think he's a solid 2-4 pick.

Speaking of tweener 3-4s over the past couple years, Ty Thomas, brandan wright, Anthony Randolph and al Thornton all remind me of Perry jones. Athletic big men who find it difficult to carve a niche in the league because they are too small to be powerful 4s / not versatile enough to be point forwards, to clumsy to be good wing players etc...

I think Davis should be able to bulk up and avoid the tribulations of these tweeners previously mentioned.

[mrhoopfan]

Don't sleep on Harrison Barnes. unreal work ethic and for a sophomore, putting up good stats. grant hill never averaged more than 18 in college and a s a sophomore averaged 14 and 6....the Wizards could use a high character, quality player at the Sf spot like him and so could the Pistons

[RedBlackAttack]

Barnes is a much better shooter, more athletic, has better touch and ball control than Marvin. Marvin was largely a post player in college. Not really Barnes, in fact I though of marvin as one of those tweeners at Carolina.

I think barnes will be a good starter but no superstar. In this draft which I think is weaker than we originally thought, I think he's a solid 2-4 pick.

Speaking of tweener 3-4s over the past couple years, Ty Thomas, brandan wright, Anthony Randolph and al Thornton all remind me of Perry jones. Athletic big men who find it difficult to carve a niche in the league because they are too small to be powerful 4s / not versatile enough to be point forwards, to clumsy to be good wing players etc...

I think Davis should be able to bulk up and avoid the tribulations of these tweeners previously mentioned.
I disagree that this draft is weaker than originally thought. I really don't think that it has a player as good as 2011 at the very top, but it is still insanely deep basically throughout the Top 15 players.

While last year was basically get the No. 1 pick or take a massive chance on flawed or unknown players, this coming draft will be almost as strong in picks 8-12 as it is in picks 4-8. It is one of the deepest drafts I can remember.

A guy like Austin Rivers? He may have been the No. 2 overall pick in last year's draft. This year? On some mocks, he isn't even a lottery pick.

Davis
Drummond
MKG
Barnes
Robinson
Sullinger
P. Jones
Henson
Zeller
Beal
T. Jones
J. Lamb
Q. Miller
M. Leonard
A. Rivers

Those are 15 guys that would have had a legitimate shot at cracking the Top 3 in last year's draft. And, the 2010 draft as weak or weaker than 2011.

This will be the deepest draft in a long, long time.

Maybe the guy who gets taken No. 1 won't have the immediate impact or long-term success of last year's No. 1, but just look at that depth... And, several very intriguing big men, as well, which is obviously something that is coveted in today's NBA.

Rivers really could turn into an elite player in the NBA and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised... And he may not even be in the lottery. This draft is nice.

Now, some of these guys may choose to stay another year. Rivers especially may do wonders with his draft stock by sticking around for a sophomore season. But, if all of these guys choose to come out? That is a nice looking board.



One thing that does interest me, though... Even before a lot of the big names chose not to come out last season, it was widely viewed in its build-up as incredibly weak.

In retrospect and before they pulled out, would a Top 10 of...

Irving
Barnes
P. Jones
Sullinger
D. Williams
T. Thompson
E. Kanter
J. Valanciunas
T. Jones
B. Knight

....have really been a weak Top 10? And then you would have had guys like Vesely, Biyombo, K. Walker, Klay Thompson and J. Lamb (if he would have come out) rounding out the rest of the lottery.

Not only does that draft board not look weak, it looks pretty damn good to me. I never really understood why that draft was so maligned prior Barnes, Perry Jones, Sullinger and Terrance Jones dropping out.

I guess it was about not everyone thinking Kyrie was fit for the No. 1 pick (which has been all but put to bed in just 30 games)? :confusedshrug:

It just goes to show that the prognosticators and those considered 'experts' in their predictions generally don't know any more than you or I.

That is why when people start to say things like, "This draft is looking weaker than expected," I vehemently disagree.

In fact, I'm going to make my own prediction right here and now... Not only do I think that this coming 2012 draft will be looked back upon in 10 years as one of the best of the decade, I think that the 2011 draft will eventually be looked back onto in the same manner.

Part of the reason that I say that is Irving far exceeding any and all expectations and guys like Knight, Klay, Tristan, Bismack, Kemba, Shumpert, Brooks, Markieff Morris, Kawhi Leonard, DWill, Enes, etc. all showing flashes of being very nice players down the road... And that I still believe Valanciunas will end up being an elite center down the road.


I guess this is all a roundabout way of saying that it is impossible to grade a draft before any of these guys have played a single minute in the NBA. I like so many players in this coming draft that I'd be pretty ecstatic to get most any of the current Top 15.




I apologize for the rant.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I disagree that this draft is weaker than originally thought. I really don't think that it has a player as good as 2011 at the very top, but it is still insanely deep basically throughout the Top 15 players.

While last year was basically get the No. 1 pick or take a massive chance on flawed or unknown players, this coming draft will be almost as strong in picks 8-12 as it is in picks 4-8. It is one of the deepest drafts I can remember.

A guy like Austin Rivers? He may have been the No. 2 overall pick in last year's draft. This year? On some mocks, he isn't even a lottery pick.

Davis
Drummond
MKG
Barnes
Robinson
Sullinger
P. Jones
Henson
Zeller
Beal
T. Jones
J. Lamb
Q. Miller
M. Leonard
A. Rivers

Those are 15 guys that would have had a legitimate shot at cracking the Top 3 in last year's draft. And, the 2010 draft as weak or weaker than 2011.

This will be the deepest draft in a long, long time.

Maybe the guy who gets taken No. 1 won't have the immediate impact or long-term success of last year's No. 1, but just look at that depth... And, several very intriguing big men, as well, which is obviously something that is coveted in today's NBA.

Rivers really could turn into an elite player in the NBA and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised... And he may not even be in the lottery. This draft is nice.

Now, some of these guys may choose to stay another year. Rivers especially may do wonders with his draft stock by sticking around for a sophomore season. But, if all of these guys choose to come out? That is a nice looking board.



One thing that does interest me, though... Even before a lot of the big names chose not to come out last season, it was widely viewed in its build-up as incredibly weak.

In retrospect and before they pulled out, would a Top 10 of...

Irving
Barnes
P. Jones
Sullinger
D. Williams
T. Thompson
E. Kanter
J. Valanciunas
T. Jones
B. Knight

....have really been a weak Top 10? And then you would have had guys like Vesely, Biyombo, K. Walker, Klay Thompson and J. Lamb (if he would have come out) rounding out the rest of the lottery.

Not only does that draft board not look weak, it looks pretty damn good to me. I never really understood why that draft was so maligned prior Barnes, Perry Jones, Sullinger and Terrance Jones dropping out.

I guess it was about not everyone thinking Kyrie was fit for the No. 1 pick (which has been all but put to bed in just 30 games)? :confusedshrug:

It just goes to show that the prognosticators and those considered 'experts' in their predictions generally don't know any more than you or I.

That is why when people start to say things like, "This draft is looking weaker than expected," I vehemently disagree.

In fact, I'm going to make my own prediction right here and now... Not only do I think that this coming 2012 draft will be looked back upon in 10 years as one of the best of the decade, I think that the 2011 draft will eventually be looked back onto in the same manner.

Part of the reason that I say that is Irving far exceeding any and all expectations and guys like Knight, Klay, Tristan, Bismack, Kemba, Shumpert, Brooks, Markieff Morris, Kawhi Leonard, DWill, Enes, etc. all showing flashes of being very nice players down the road... And that I still believe Valanciunas will end up being an elite center down the road.


I guess this is all a roundabout way of saying that it is impossible to grade a draft before any of these guys have played a single minute in the NBA. I like so many players in this coming draft that I'd be pretty ecstatic to get most any of the current Top 15.




I apologize for the rant.


Eh, the only guy I see as being a surefire all star from this draft is Irving. Pretty bad draft. Valanciunas may end up being a stud though I like him, but I don't count him here.

The only other guy I can see possibly becoming a true stud is Kanter, and he'll have to develop a lot.

There are some nice players for sure, like Leonard and Brooks, but it was a bad class coming out and I don't think that label can be changed at this point.

[RedBlackAttack]

Eh, the only guy I see as being a surefire all star from this draft is Irving. Pretty bad draft. Valanciunas may end up being a stud though I like him, but I don't count him here.

The only other guy I can see possibly becoming a true stud is Kanter, and he'll have to develop a lot.

There are some nice players for sure, like Leonard and Brooks, but it was a bad class coming out and I don't think that label can be changed at this point.
We'll see about Kanter, but I'm not sure why he would be pegged as a guy possibly becoming a true stud and someone like Tristan Thompson -- who is quite clearly less refined at this stage and has a higher upside due to natural athleticism -- is averaging superior stats in comparable minutes with far better defense right now?

Thompson is putting up a very respectable 7 points, 6 rebounds and 1.2 blocks in 18 minutes per game. I think he could be a true force on the defensive end and on the boards down the road... And his offense is already further along than I thought it would be at any point in his rookie season.

He is just so damn athletic and seems to have a great work ethic. I think if he would have stayed in college another year, he would be right in the talks with the other top PFs in the coming draft. He is only 20-years-old, after all.

I just don't think many people have seen much of him outside of Cleveland.

[KG215]

As a person who has been following his path to the NBA for the last 3-4 years or so, I'm fully sold on Harrison Barnes becoming a NBA star.

This is a guy who loves the game and is willing to put in work to make himself better at anything. I dont see how anyone can question his work ethic or talent. He models his game after Kobe and looks to have that same drive that Kobe has to be great. We really are going to see it come tournament time with how far he'll go to carry that UNC team.

Barnes is so talent he often toys with whoever is guarding him, opting for the tough shots instead of just doing 1 thing over and over again that hes successful at. Hes skilled to the point that Roy Williams isn't going to rip him over some of the shots he takes, but at the next level he's going to have to learn when to take those shots. Considering his high basketball IQ and work ethic, that will be a quick adjustment.

I think some of what you said is spot-on.

While I think some of the criticisms of Barnes are spot-on, I think those are coming from people who have only seen UNC games here and there the last couple of years. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I have seen all but four or five UNC games the last two seasons, so I guess I'll throw in my two-cents even though my opinion is worth less than that.

1. Barnes has the perfect build for an NBA wing. He's a long 6'7-8". He gets good lift on his jumper and has a high release, so there are very few NBA wings that will be able to contest and bother his shot.

2. His athleticism is sneaky good. He's not an explosive leaper but can elevate and throw-down in traffic. What I think goes unnoticed by most, though, is his body-control. I'm not sure there's another college player with as good of body control as Barnes. There's been times he's gone into traffic this year and somehow contorted his body through a mess and finished a shot.

3. What you said about "toying" with his defender at times is exactly what I've thought many times this year. He'll get an ISO situation on the wing and, despite being able to get all the way to the rim, he'll make a series of jabs and fakes, take a couple of dribbles, and settle for the tougher mid-range jumper, but still nail the shot. In fact, his pull-up jumper may be second-to-none right now in the college game and is already NBA ready. There's been other games UNC had in hand where Barnes would go to work in the second half and start toying with his man.

4. This year and last, when UNC has needed him to, Barnes has stepped up and taken over games. You won't think he's done much, then you'll look at the box-score at the end of the game and he has 20-25 points on 50% shooting. He's shooting 47% on the season and 43% from three.

5. His work ethic is relentless. He loves basketball and is constantly talking about working on and improving his game. As much as I want to be, though, I'm still not 100% sold on him being a legit #1 option on a future championship contender on the NBA. Right now I lean towards him being an excellent #2 option on a contender, but think he has the tools and ability to be a go-to guy. He's got the clutch gene and has shown the ability to takeover and close games.

There are some thinks about Michael Kidd-Gilchrist's game I like more, mostly his non-stop motor. If Barnes had his motor, then I think he'd be worthy of the #1 overall pick, regardless of how high the ceiling is for Davis and Drummond.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Redblackattck, I think the draft is weaker simply because picks2-7 arent as strong as they had been projected a year ago. Yes this draft still is incredibly deep, and the overall depth may be slightly improving but I think the top end talent (jones, sullinger, drummond, and to a lesser extent Kidd-gilcrest and barnes) has either not improved as was expected after last year or been exposed. Davis has improved and his tremendous talent has been showcased and skills refined.

I think it falls off much more in those early lottery picks than was expected as recently as november. That is why I thought this drafts top end talent has slightly appeared weaker.

[Da KO King]

Count me among those that thinks Anthony Davis first overall will be a mistake. I do not believe in drafting projects first overall and to me that kid is a project.

When I watch him I'm not overly impressed. Much of his defensive play making is due to athleticism and physical tools not technique or tactial understanding. Offensively I do not see a single skill that can be built from. I just don't see him ever fulfilling #1 pick value.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Count me among those that thinks Anthony Davis first overall will be a mistake. I do not believe in drafting projects first overall and to me that kid is a project.

When I watch him I'm not overly impressed. Much of his defensive play making is due to athleticism and physical tools not technique or tactial understanding. Offensively I do not see a single skill that can be built from. I just don't see him ever fulfilling #1 pick value.

Who would be more valueble at one? I've come around on the kid.

I just saw a stat that nearly 81% off all of Barnes' shots were self created or not created by a Marshall assist. That is an amazing stat.

It really says a lot about Barnes' ability to create his own shot. I also think it helps tell of his deceptive athleticism.

[Da KO King]

Who would be more valueble at one? I've come around on the kid.

I just saw a stat that nearly 81% off all of Barnes' shots were self created or not created by a Marshall assist. That is an amazing stat.

It really says a lot about Barnes' ability to create his own shot. I also think it helps tell of his deceptive athleticism.
Right now, I'm not sure who I'd grab at #1. I'm leaning toward Andre Drummond right now but I don't love him as a prospect.

Honestly, despite what the stat says I think Barnes will really struggle to create his own shots at the NBA level. I can see Barnes being a 15-20 point per guy in the league but I think he'll need to get his within a structured offense.

[outbreak]

If i had to bet on it i'd say Davis will be number 1. If i was a GM i'd take Barnes.

[CelticBaller]

Drummond is still a bit fresh, i'd take the guy with the unibrown