Why is Kobe considered inefficient?

[StateOfMind12]

I don't get it.

The league average for FG% from 2000-2010 was around the 44-46% range and that is exactly the range Kobe shot from 2000-2010, so how exactly was he inefficient? How is he also inefficient when he always shot in the 55% to 57% range in TS% when the league average of TS% from 2000-2010 was always around the 52-54% range?

If I had to take a guess though it is because Michael Jordan's FG% was always in the 50% so the fact that his FG% was below Jordan's FG% all of a suddenly makes him inefficient opposed to not being as efficient as Michael Jordan. I think some people need to fix their word usage here because that doesn't make Kobe inefficient, just not as efficient or as good as MJ.

It's pretty funny how bad these MJ-Kobe comparisons have damaged Kobe's legacy.


Here are the actual League average for FG%

2000-2001 - 44.3%
2001-2002 - 44.5%
2002-2003 - 44.2%
2003-2004 - 43.9%
2004-2005 - 44.7%
2005-2006 - 45.4%
2006-2007 - 45.8%
2007-2008 - 45.7%
2008-2009 - 45.9%
2009-2010 - 46.1%

Kobe's FG% from '01-'10 (his prime) +/- means how much better or worse than it is compared to league average.

2000-2001 - 46.4% - +2.1
2001-2002 - 46.9% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 45.1% - +0.9
2003-2004 - 43.8% - -0.1
2004-2005 - 43.3% - -1.4
2005-2006 - 45.0% - -0.4
2006-2007 - 46.3% - +0.5
2007-2008 - 45.9% - +0.2
2008-2009 - 46.7% - +0.8
2009-2010 - 45.6% - -0.5

Funny for three of the seasons of the four seasons where his FG% were seasons where he suffered injuries. (all except '05-'06).


Here are Kobe's TS% and eFG% compared to the league average

Kobe's TS% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 55.2% - +3.4
2001-2002 - 54.4% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 55.0% - +3.1
2003-2004 - 55.1% - +3.5
2004-2005 - 56.3% - +3.3
2005-2006 - 55.9% - +2.4
2006-2007 - 58.0% - +3.9
2007-2008 - 57.6% - +3.6
2008-2009 - 56.1% - +1.5
2009-2010 - 54.5% - +0.2

Kobe's eFG% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 48.4% - +1.1
2001-2002 - 47.9% - +0.2
2002-2003 - 48.3% - +1.0
2003-2004 - 46.8% - -0.3
2004-2005 - 48.2% - the exact league average
2005-2006 - 49.1% - +0.2
2006-2007 - 50.2% - +0.6
2007-2008 - 50.3% - +0.5
2008-2009 - 48.8% - -1.1
2009-2010 - 48.7% - -1.4

[Legends66NBA7]

Because if you say he's average from the field (which I do agree), some people will think your calling him an "average player" and won't understand why people call him great... when he's average.

That's the reasoning to some of these fans, unfortunately.

[kennethgriffin]

so far the most efficient player in the nba has been the biggest underachiver and choker over the past 9 years

so.... whats effiency ever won anyone?

is there a PER trophy?

[Heavincent]

It's just another myth.

[tmacattack33]

so far the most efficient player in the nba has been the biggest underachiver and choker over the past 9 years

so.... whats effiency ever won anyone?

is there a PER trophy?

A lot.

Since MJ (another efficient player) left:

Tim Duncan and Shaq won many titles due to their amazing and efficient play. As did Wade and Dirk.


Meanwhile, inefficient players like Iverson, Francis, V. Carter, and Marbury came into the league with all the hype and never won a thing.

[Punpun]

Or maybe the NBA is inefficient as a whole.

[StateOfMind12]

A lot.

Since MJ (another efficient player) left:

Tim Duncan and Shaq won many titles due to their amazing and efficient play. As did Wade and Dirk.


Meanwhile, inefficient players like Iverson, Francis, V. Carter, and Marbury came into the league with all the hype and never won a thing.
Kobe was more efficient than Duncan (compare their TS%) so it's pretty clear you don't know anything.

I love how you forgot to mention Tmac as inefficient when he was more inefficient than Carter.

[blablabla]

A lot.

Since MJ (another efficient player) left:

Tim Duncan and Shaq won many titles due to their amazing and efficient play. As did Wade and Dirk.


Meanwhile, inefficient players like Iverson, Francis, V. Carter, and Marbury came into the league with all the hype and never won a thing.
kobe won more rings than shaq duncan wade and dirk

[gengiskhan]

because he takes 26 shots to score 28 pts

because he takes 30 shots to score 30 pts

because he has to take 32 shots to score 34 pts

its ridiculous for somebody labeled "shooting" guard.

His 44%FG is downright disguisting in an era he is barely touched.

[LBJ 23]

so far the most efficient player in the nba has been the biggest underachiver and choker over the past 9 years

so.... whats effiency ever won anyone?

is there a PER trophy?



Actually, when there was a chance to win something he was very inefficient by his standards.


Your argument trying to discredit efficiency is invalid

[blablabla]

because he takes 26 shots to score 28 pts

because he takes 30 shots to score 30 pts

because he has to take 32 shots to score 34 pts

its ridiculous for somebody labeled "shooting" guard.

His 44%FG is downright disguisting in an era he is barely touched.
he took 27 fg to score 35.5 in 06 07 22 fg to score 31.6 the year after

[HurricaneKid]

Peak Kobe as "The Man"



FG%
2003-2004 - 43.8% - -0.1
2004-2005 - 43.3% - -1.4
2005-2006 - 45.0% - -0.4
2006-2007 - 46.3% - +0.5
2007-2008 - 45.9% - +0.2
2008-2009 - 46.7% - +0.8
2009-2010 - 45.6% - -0.5

eFG%
2003-2004 - 46.8% - -0.3
2004-2005 - 48.2% - the exact league average
2005-2006 - 49.1% - +0.2
2006-2007 - 50.2% - +0.6
2007-2008 - 50.3% - +0.5
2008-2009 - 48.8% - -1.1
2009-2010 - 48.7% - -1.4

WOW. He has been BELOW the league avg since Shaq left?? Thats... not impressive.

What you should be doing is comparing to other 2 guards. The fact that bigs shoot >>>>> Kobe is rather immaterial. He is decidedly >>>>>> Avg compared to others at his position.

I still expected his FG% to be higher than the league avg though.

[28renyoy]

He's no inefficient, but he is when compared to other great scorers. He is average efficiency wise when compared to the rest of the league, he just does it on great volume.

[Deuce Bigalow]

because he takes 26 shots to score 28 pts

because he takes 30 shots to score 30 pts

because he has to take 32 shots to score 34 pts

its ridiculous for somebody labeled "shooting" guard.

His 44%FG is downright disguisting in an era he is barely touched.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z400/SubConThreads/34jbv4n.gif

[PJR]

because he takes 26 shots to score 28 pts

because he takes 30 shots to score 30 pts

because he has to take 32 shots to score 34 pts

its ridiculous for somebody labeled "shooting" guard.

His 44%FG is downright disguisting in an era he is barely touched.

All of this. Kobrick has just been fortunate to play with exceptional front courts.

[Punpun]

So many haters.

:roll:

[97 bulls]

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z400/SubConThreads/34jbv4n.gif
Lol

[bwink23]

Kobe was more efficient than Duncan (compare their TS%) so it's pretty clear you don't know anything.

I love how you forgot to mention Tmac as inefficient when he was more inefficient than Carter.


TS% is GARBAGE.....it gives brownie points for those who get an abnormal amount of FT's vs. FG attempts. it doesn't measure FLOOR SHOOTING in any way.

[Poodle]

if-you-look-at-kobe's-box-scores-there-are-a-ton-of-times-he's-taking-20+shots-and-making-a-low-percentage-of-them.

even-if-kobe-is-great-at-making-tough-or-clutch-shots,it-kills-me-how-he-seems-to-make-shots-harder-and-how-individual-he-plays.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The league average isn't shot under the pressure of a double team or being the guy that takes the bail-out shot when the clock is running down. This is partially Bryant's own fault for taking shots against double-coverage and it'd be easier for him if he played off of his bigs more. But regardless you shouldn't make the mistake of judging a player just based on a statistic.

[bwink23]

Here's a prime example how FT's (officiating) affects TS%:


2005 Kobe Bryant = 56.3% TS%.

2009 Kobe Bryant = 56.1% TS%.....:facepalm

2005 Bryant = 43.3%FG, 33.9% 3's, 81.6%FT..
2009 Bryant = 46.7%FG, 35.1% 3's, 85.6%FT.. :wtf:

Now who here would argue that Kobe was better during the 2005 season vs. 2009?? I would hope NO ONE, if your smart.

How does Kobe shoot better in every aspect of shooting, but have a WORSE TS%??

Easy, FT's.....2005 = 10.1 FT's a game....2009 = 6.9 FT's a game.

This more than proves how TS % is absolute GARBAGE when judging a players scoring efficiency....

If your shooting better in every aspect of scoring across the board....you were a better shooter that year, PERIOD>

[28renyoy]

The league average isn't shot under the pressure of a double team or being the guy that takes the bail-out shot when the clock is running down. This is partially Bryant's own fault for taking shots against double-coverage and it'd be easier for him if he played off of his bigs more. But regardless you shouldn't make the mistake of judging a player just based on a statistic.

Shot selection is part of being a great scorer. LeBron and Durant rarely take the shots Bryant does because they're sub 40% shots that just hurt their teams.

[SonicJam]

TS% is GARBAGE.....it gives brownie points for those who get an abnormal amount of FT's vs. FG attempts. it doesn't measure FLOOR SHOOTING in any way.

I believe getting foul shots are even more of an efficient way to score because it puts the other team in penalty and changes how they must defend you. Creating contact while shooting is an art and those who have the ability to finish after contact are generally the most efficient players in the league.

[barnett114]

It's because he can't do this.

Jordan: 1987-88 - 35.0 PPG / .535 FG% / .603 TS% / .537 eFG%
Jordan: 1988-89 - 32.5 PPG / .538 FG% / .614 TS% / .546 eFG%
Jordan: 1989-90 - 33.6 PPG / .526 FG% / .606 TS% / .550 eFG%
Jordan: 1990-91 - 31.5 PPG / .539 FG% / .605 TS% / .547 eFG%

via basketball-reference.com

[Real Men Wear Green]

Shot selection is part of being a great scorer. LeBron and Durant rarely take the shots Bryant does because they're sub 40% shots that just hurt their teams.
I have no real criticism for Durant's approach. James, however, has gone overboard in the opposite direction in the past. I like him more than Bryant but I can't defend some of the things we've seen from him in the clutch and justhope for his sake it's a mental thing he can get over. Bryant just has an unrepentant scorer's mentality. It means he'll never shoot 50% but he's got five rings and was the best player for two of them. Hard to argue with those results. If James had Bryant's mentality Miami would have beat Dallas.

[pegasus]

Had Kobe not taken all of those last second end of quarter shots, he would have averaged almost exactly the same but shot about .025 better.

He took 22138 shots in his 1135-game career. He probably takes 2 of those shots every game, but let's just say he takes 1. That means he could have averaged the same number of points by taking 22138-1135= 21003 shots while making the same amount of baskets, which is 10052. His FG% goes up to .479, which is very good for a volume scorer.

That would have also increased his 3 point % to .440, assuming 90% of those last second shots were 3 pointers, which is very likely.

Don't even tell me that he hasn't taken those shots throughout his entire career, and you damn well know there are certain players who won't take those shots even if their lives depended on.

[StateOfMind12]

The league average isn't shot under the pressure of a double team or being the guy that takes the bail-out shot when the clock is running down. This is partially Bryant's own fault for taking shots against double-coverage and it'd be easier for him if he played off of his bigs more. But regardless you shouldn't make the mistake of judging a player just based on a statistic.
I agree.

People think we can judge who is a superior scorer simply based on who scores more ppg, higher TS%, higher FG%, higher eFG%, but the truth is that it goes beyond that. There are a numerous of other factors to determine who is the better scorer and why some players stats are like the way they are.

LeBron has never been the best scorer in the league to me despite the fact that he has led the league in scoring at some point and is efficient. The reason why he was never the best scorer in the league to me was because I could never depend on him in the clutch like I could with Kobe back in his prime ('06-'09) or Durant today.

There are too many factors that people love to ignore because of the amount of numerical data we have access to. Sadly, the numerical data does not give us all of the information.

[arifgokcen]

I think he takes some of most ridiculous and stupid shots i have ever seen.Its a joy watching him when he makes those kind of shots however he takes so many of them.This is why he is by far the least efficient scorer in top 20 of all time.His IQ in this regard is so overrated.However this is what makes him kobe.Some of the shots he takes and makes its unbelievable.However sometimes he chucks chucks and chucks this is when it becomes very difficult to watch him.

[97 bulls]

Here's a prime example how FT's (officiating) affects TS%:


2005 Kobe Bryant = 56.3% TS%.

2009 Kobe Bryant = 56.1% TS%.....:facepalm

2005 Bryant = 43.3%FG, 33.9% 3's, 81.6%FT..
2009 Bryant = 46.7%FG, 35.1% 3's, 85.6%FT.. :wtf:

Now who here would argue that Kobe was better during the 2005 season vs. 2009?? I would hope NO ONE, if your smart.

How does Kobe shoot better in every aspect of shooting, but have a WORSE TS%??

Easy, FT's.....2005 = 10.1 FT's a game....2009 = 6.9 FT's a game.

This more than proves how TS % is absolute GARBAGE when judging a players scoring efficiency....

If your shooting better in every aspect of scoring across the board....you were a better shooter that year, PERIOD>
Wow, great post wink. This should put the TS nonsense to bed

[bwink23]

Wow, great post wink. This should put the TS nonsense to bed


There's a reason why you will never hear analysts and announcers talk of TS% and stick with the %'s individually....cuz the individual %'s are far more practical and accurate in judging player and team shooting.

TS % is just some crap that Hollinger put together to lump all scoring aspects into one formula, without taken the WEIGHT of each metric into account.....much like what he did with PER, which is also a complete joke of a stat.

[barnett114]

Wow, great post wink. This should put the TS nonsense to bed

Only when it doesn't benefit your argument.

Kobe's TS was higher in 04-05 because he scored 27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA, plus he had 10.1 FTA.

It was lower in 08-09 because he scored 26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA, plus he had 6.9 FTA.

It's that simple, he took more shots and scored less points.

[StateOfMind12]

If your shooting better in every aspect of scoring across the board....you were a better shooter that year, PERIOD>
TS% also factors in the amount of shots one has taken from the field including FTs. I know you don't like TS% so we can just agree to disagree in this case.

Kobe scored more points in '05 than he did in '09 with less FGA and more FTA. That's why his TS% was higher. Like I said, being a better scorer goes beyond just who scores more ppg and has a higher FG%, eFG%, and TS% though.

[Glide2keva]

because he takes 26 shots to score 28 pts

because he takes 30 shots to score 30 pts

because he has to take 32 shots to score 34 pts

its ridiculous for somebody labeled "shooting" guard.

His 44%FG is downright disguisting in an era he is barely touched.
Yeah, that.

[bwink23]

TS% also factors in the amount of shots one has taken from the field including FTs. I know you don't like TS% so we can just agree to disagree in this case.

Kobe scored more points in '05 than he did in '09 with less FGA and more FTA. That's why his TS% was higher. Like I said, being a better scorer goes beyond just who scores more ppg and has a higher FG%, eFG%, and TS% though.


EXACTLY....which is why TS% is garbage, and has zero value in the real basketball world. You can't judge the ACCURACY of those shots by his TS%. ACCURACY >>>>>>>>> TS%, as it's not dependent on how the ref's call a game...There is a significant difference in Kobe's TS% pre-rule changes and post rule changes due to the amount of FT's he was getting...but he's always near a 83-85% FT shooter no matter how the game is called.


Like i said....you CAN NOT be considered a more efficient scorer when you shoot better in every category during the year...That's just STUPID>

[Glide2keva]

It's because he can't do this.

Jordan: 1987-88 - 35.0 PPG / .535 FG%
Jordan: 1988-89 - 32.5 PPG / .538 FG%
Jordan: 1989-90 - 33.6 PPG / .526 FG%
Jordan: 1990-91 - 31.5 PPG / .539 FG%

via basketball-reference.com
Fixed, this is all you need. TS and eFG are useless stats that need not be included in any basketball discussion.

[bwink23]

TS% also factors in the amount of shots one has taken from the field including FTs. I know you don't like TS% so we can just agree to disagree in this case.

Kobe scored more points in '05 than he did in '09 with less FGA and more FTA. That's why his TS% was higher. Like I said, being a better scorer goes beyond just who scores more ppg and has a higher FG%, eFG%, and TS% though.


You want to tell me that kobe's worst FG% season EVER in his prime is OK just because the rules changes were dictating the amount of FT's he was getting.....:no:

:violin:

[Glide2keva]

There's a reason why you will never hear analysts and announcers talk of TS% and stick with the %'s individually....cuz the individual %'s are far more practical and accurate in judging player and team shooting.

TS % is just some crap that Hollinger put together to lump all scoring aspects into one formula, without taken the WEIGHT of each metric into account. Much like what he did with PER, which is also a complete joke of a stat.:rockon: :applause:

[oolalaa]

eFG%!!

FG% should be BANNED.

1. Kobe is more efficient than people give him credit for.

2. Efficiency is overrated. How and when you score your points is far more important.

That is all.

[Droid101]

Fixed, this is all you need. TS and eFG are useless stats that need not be included in any basketball discussion.
Once again, fail poster is fail.

If a dude had lines like:

35 PPG 48% FG
33 PPG 49% FG
31 PPG 50% FG

You're assuming those are "worse" than the Jordan lines you commented on?

What if he shot 100% of his shots from 3 point range? Looks a lot better than Jordan's lines now, doesn't it?

:facepalm at you ****ing luddites. Statistics and technology evolve. Evolve with them.

[barnett114]

You want to tell me that kobe's worst FG% season EVER in his prime is OK just because the rules changes were dictating the amount of FT's he was getting.....:no:

:violin:

**** the freethrows.

Kobe's TS was higher in 04-05 because he scored 27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA

It was lower in 08-09 because he scored 26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA


It's that simple, he took more shots and scored less points.

[bwink23]

Once again, fail poster is fail.

If a dude had lines like:

35 PPG 48% FG
33 PPG 49% FG
31 PPG 50% FG

You're assuming those are "worse" than the Jordan lines you commented on?

What if he shot 100% of his shots from 3 point range? Looks a lot better than Jordan's lines now, doesn't it?

:facepalm at you ****ing luddites. Statistics and technology evolve. Evolve with them.


Some one tells you player A has a TS% of 55%....player B = 54%...what can you gather from that??

[bwink23]

**** the freethrows.

Kobe's TS was higher in 04-05 because he scored 27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA

It was lower in 08-09 because he scored 26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA


It's that simple, he took more shots and scored less points.


Yeah, cuz he wasn't getting the calls he was in 2005....:rolleyes:

Officiating was affecting his shooting, not his touch....get that straight.

[Droid101]

Some one tells you player A has a TS% of 55%....player B = 54%...what can you gather from that??
Any number of things.

The main thing is, the dude with the 55% probably scored more points on less shots.......... WAS MORE EFFICIENT SCORING THE BASKETBALL

****ing A you people are dense.

[Droid101]

[/B]


Yeah, cuz he wasn't getting the calls he was in 2005....:rolleyes:

Officiating was affecting his shooting, not his touch....get that straight.
Calls? You realize that some players know how to draw fouls. Some players drive to the rim more (and get fouled more) where some players will stay behind the three point line and just shoot (getting fouled less).

Has nothing to do with "getting the calls." :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[EnoughSaid]

Considering all the all-time greats shot at a great percentage from the field... and he's in that conversation, things that like tend to come up.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[/B]


Yeah, cuz he wasn't getting the calls he was in 2005....:rolleyes:

Officiating was affecting his shooting, not his touch....get that straight.
29.4 PPG in '01 Playoffs
30.0 PPG in '03 Regular Season
32.1 PPG in '03 Playoffs

Next

[bwink23]

Any number of things.

The main thing is, the dude with the 55% probably scored more points on less shots.......... WAS MORE EFFICIENT SCORING THE BASKETBALL

****ing A you people are dense.


Your RREEEAAACHINNGG....so you can only GUESS on what happened....and tell me this, are you gonna look up the FG's, FT's, and 3's as well???

You know you would....so why do you need TS% again??:hammerhead:

[barnett114]

Yeah, cuz he wasn't getting the calls he was in 2005....:rolleyes:

Officiating was affecting his shooting, not his touch....get that straight.

:banghead:

He took more shots and scored less points. It's that simple.

That's why his TS% was higher even though he shot .433 from the field. He took 20.1 shots to score 27.6 PPG. In 08-09 he took 20.9 shots to score 26.8 PPG.

But you need a new excuse because TS% doesn't fit your argument.

[Inactive]

The average SG this year is shooting 42.1 FG%, 47.9 EFG%, 52.1 TS%. Kobe is shooting 44.3 FG%, 47.2 EFG%, 53 TS%.

Let's compare to another top scorer:

The average SF this year is shooting 42.6 FG%, 47.9 EFG%, and 52 TS%. Durant is shooting 51.6 FG%, 55.9 EFG%, and 61.2 TS%.

See the difference?

In previous years, it's been the same thing. Kobe shoots approx. average, or slightly above average, for his position. Now, he's still a great scorer, because he can take so many shots, without his efficiency dropping dramatically. Sometimes that means he ends up costing your team higher % shots, when he takes too many himself. Sometimes it saves your team, because he can create for himself, when the defense is shutting everyone else down.

:banghead:

He took more shots and scored less points. It's that simple.

That's why his TS% was higher even though he shot .433 from the field. He took 20.1 shots to score 27.6 PPG. In 08-09 he took 20.9 shots to score 26.8 PPG.

But you need a new excuse because TS% doesn't fit your argument.He knows he's wrong, and he'll never admit it. Let's not turn this into another "PER and TS%" thread, lol.

[bwink23]

:banghead:

He took more shots and scored less points. It's that simple.

That's why his TS% was higher even though he shot .433 from the field. He took 20.1 shots to score 27.6 PPG. In 08-09 he took 20.9 shots to score 26.8 PPG.

But you need a new excuse because TS% doesn't fit your argument.


does having a TS% higher in 2005 than in make him a more efficient scorer than in 2009 cuz the refs gave him more FT's?? LOL

I THINK NOT>

[barnett114]

You know you would....so why do you need TS% again??:hammerhead:

You are a ****ing dumb ass.

True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

[bwink23]

The average SG this year is shooting 42.1 FG%, 47.9 EFG%, 52.1 TS%. Kobe is shooting 44.3 FG%, 47.2 EFG%, 53 TS%.

Let's compare to another top scorer:

The average SF this year is shooting 42.6 FG%, 47.9 EFG%, and 52 TS%. Durant is shooting 51.6 FG%, 55.9 EFG%, and 61.2 TS%.

See the difference?



In previous years, it's been the same thing. Kobe shoots approx. average, or slightly above average, for his position. Now, he's still a great scorer, because he can take so many shots, without his efficiency dropping dramatically. Sometimes that means he ends up costing your team higher % shots, when he takes too many himself. Sometimes it saves your team, because he can create for himself, when the defense is shutting everyone else down.
He knows he's wrong, and he'll never admit it. Let's not turn this into another "PER and TS%" thread, lol.



Kobe in 2005....43.3%FG, 33.9% from 3, 81.6%FT.
Kobe in 2009....46,7%FG, 35.1% from 3, 85% FT shooter....and you want to tell me he was more efficient in 2005 cuz if his TS%....

PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN SON....:hammerhead:

[bwink23]

You are a ****ing dumb ass.

True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.


Kobe in 2005....43.3%FG, 33.9% from 3, 81.6%FT.
Kobe in 2009....46.7%FG, 35.1% from 3, 85% FT shooter.

Thinking Kobe was a more efficient scorer based on some retarded TS%, makes you the DUMBASS SON.:hammerhead:

[Droid101]

does having a TS% higher in 2005 than in make him a more efficient scorer than in 2009 cuz the refs gave him more FT's?? LOL

I THINK NOT>
The refs didn't "give" anyone anything. Players who drive to the basket get fouled more. Also, skilled players are good at drawing fouls.

[Deuce Bigalow]

bwink23 go back to watching space jam :facepalm

[Pointguard]

I don't get it.

The league average for FG% from 2000-2010 was around the 44-46% range and that is exactly the range Kobe shot from 2000-2010, so how exactly was he inefficient? How is he also inefficient when he always shot in the 55% to 57% range in TS% when the league average of TS% from 2000-2010 was always around the 52-54% range?

If I had to take a guess though it is because Michael Jordan's FG% was always in the 50% so the fact that his FG% was below Jordan's FG% all of a suddenly makes him inefficient opposed to not being as efficient as Michael Jordan. I think some people need to fix their word usage here because that doesn't make Kobe inefficient, just not as efficient or as good as MJ.

It's pretty funny how bad these MJ-Kobe comparisons have damaged Kobe's legacy.


Here are the actual League average for FG%

2000-2001 - 44.3%
2001-2002 - 44.5%
2002-2003 - 44.2%
2003-2004 - 43.9%
2004-2005 - 44.7%
2005-2006 - 45.4%
2006-2007 - 45.8%
2007-2008 - 45.7%
2008-2009 - 45.9%
2009-2010 - 46.1%

Kobe's FG% from '01-'10 (his prime) +/- means how much better or worse than it is compared to league average.

2000-2001 - 46.4% - +2.1
2001-2002 - 46.9% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 45.1% - +0.9
2003-2004 - 43.8% - -0.1
2004-2005 - 43.3% - -1.4
2005-2006 - 45.0% - -0.4
2006-2007 - 46.3% - +0.5
2007-2008 - 45.9% - +0.2
2008-2009 - 46.7% - +0.8
2009-2010 - 45.6% - -0.5

Funny for three of the seasons of the four seasons where his FG% were seasons where he suffered injuries. (all except '05-'06).


Here are Kobe's TS% and eFG% compared to the league average

Kobe's TS% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 55.2% - +3.4
2001-2002 - 54.4% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 55.0% - +3.1
2003-2004 - 55.1% - +3.5
2004-2005 - 56.3% - +3.3
2005-2006 - 55.9% - +2.4
2006-2007 - 58.0% - +3.9
2007-2008 - 57.6% - +3.6
2008-2009 - 56.1% - +1.5
2009-2010 - 54.5% - +0.2

Kobe's eFG% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 48.4% - +1.1
2001-2002 - 47.9% - +0.2
2002-2003 - 48.3% - +1.0
2003-2004 - 46.8% - -0.3
2004-2005 - 48.2% - the exact league average
2005-2006 - 49.1% - +0.2
2006-2007 - 50.2% - +0.6
2007-2008 - 50.3% - +0.5
2008-2009 - 48.8% - -1.1
2009-2010 - 48.7% - -1.4

To me he's been on par - he's a bit hot/cold so we see some really bad shooting nights. Superstars should be shooting more efficiently than the rest of the league, tho. Also, he takes a lot of shots when he has a great front court that shoots the ball at a much higher clip than the rest of the league. The thing in favor of Kobe is that he keeps pressure on the defense because he attacks from all over. He keeps coming and its unbalances the defense.

[bwink23]

You are a ****ing dumb ass.

True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.


So you don't need TS% AT ALL....right?? Since the info is already there. :hammerhead:

Obviously, if a guy shoots better in all areas of scoring( FG's, 3's, and FT's) he is the BETTER SCORER.....no matter what your stupid TS% tells you....take that to the bank you FOOL>

[barnett114]

does having a TS% higher in 2005 than in make him a more efficient scorer than in 2009 cuz the refs gave him more FT's?? LOL

I THINK NOT>

:facepalm



Kobe in 2005....43.3%FG, 33.9% from 3, 81.6%FT.
Kobe in 2009....46.7%FG, 35.1% from 3, 85% FT shooter.

Thinking Kobe was a more efficient scorer based on some retarded TS%, makes you the DUMBASS SON.:hammerhead:

Forget TS% and FG% for a second 27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA or 26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA

You don't get it because you are a stupid mother****er.

[chazzy]

Don't get baited by bwink - he'll never understand how the distribution and volume of your shots matter in addition to the percentages

[Droid101]

Don't get baited by bwink - he'll never understand how the distribution and volume of your shots matter in addition to the percentages
http://cms1.good.is/posts/post_full_1284761463math-class-is-tough-barbie.jpg

[barnett114]

[/B]


So you don't need TS% AT ALL....right?? Since the info is already there. :hammerhead:

Obviously, if a guy shoots better in all areas of scoring( FG's, 3's, and FT's) he is the BETTER SCORER.....no matter what your stupid TS% tells you....take that to the bank you FOOL>

Okay bitch, you win.

[bwink23]

The refs didn't "give" anyone anything. Players who drive to the basket get fouled more. Also, skilled players are good at drawing fouls.


LOL...Kobe was most definately given FT's...but that's not the point..

The point is that Kobe shot better in all phases of scoring in 2009, but shot a worse TS% than in 2005..

That right there aught to tell you how MISLEADING of a stat TS% is....

In TS%, the lower the ratio of FG to FT, the better the TS%..REGARDLESS of how well you really shoot from the field..

In TS%, you can be an excellent FT shooter and a terrible FG shooter, and still carry a higher TS% than someone who does both well, but doesn't get the same number of calls...


Learn how to properly analyze games you idiot.

[barnett114]

Don't get baited by bwink - he'll never understand how the distribution and volume of your shots matter in addition to the percentages

He a silly mother****er.

[bwink23]

He a silly mother****er.


So you agree that despite Kobe shooting better in all phases of scoring in 2009...that he was a more efficient scorer in 2005, correct???

[bwink23]

Don't get baited by bwink - he'll never understand how the distribution and volume of your shots matter in addition to the percentages


I'll tell you what i tell all Kobetards on this topic...

CALL ME when a real analyst on ESPN or during ball games EVER brings up TS%.....I won't wait up for that day...SMOKED :pimp:

[barnett114]

So you agree that despite Kobe shooting better in all phases of scoring in 2009...that he was a more efficient scorer in 2005, correct???

Forget TS% and FG% for a second.

27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA


26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA

And I guess Billups isn't efficient either.

[chazzy]

CALL ME when a real analyst on ESPN
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29293/dirk-nowitzkis-true-shooting-percentage

[bwink23]

Forget TS% and FG% for a second.

27.6 PPG on 20.1 FGA


26.8 PPG on 20.9 FGA

And I guess Billups isn't efficient either.


cuz of FT attempts.....:hammerhead: You can thank the officiating for that....

FT's and FG's don't mix, and never will.....PERIOD

[bwink23]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29293/dirk-nowitzkis-true-shooting-percentage


Thanks for posting an article a STATISTICIAN wrote, LOL....:hammerhead:


I said call me when an ANALYST uses it...:violin:

[chazzy]

Thanks for posting an article a STATISTICIAN wrote, LOL....:hammerhead:


I said call me when an ANALYST uses it...:violin:
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110302/daily-dime

[Glide2keva]

Once again, fail poster is fail.

If a dude had lines like:

35 PPG 48% FG
33 PPG 49% FG
31 PPG 50% FG

You're assuming those are "worse" than the Jordan lines you commented on?No moron. Those are great shooting stats from the field. I can look at his 3's if I want his percentage there. Same with FT"s. I don't need a lumped together stat that hides bad shooting from the floor and is boosted by FT's. I like to know what he actually did.


What if he shot 100% of his shots from 3 point range? Looks a lot better than Jordan's lines now, doesn't it?Are you asking if he hit 100% of his shots from 3, or what if he took all of his shots from three? If he hit them then he was shooting well from the floor overall. What's the problem?


:facepalm at you ****ing luddites. Statistics and technology evolve. Evolve with them.They don't need to evolve if the game is still the same. You can't use stats that are lumped together for a game like basketball. Baseball? Sure because everyone gets the same amount of at-bats, and they all have to play defense. There is a measurable amount of data that can be broken down in many different ways because there aren't too many variables from game to game.

Basketball is too nuanced for that. Every game is very different than the game before and they all have their own ebb and flow. That's where you stat nerds get it messed up.

[bwink23]

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110302/daily-dime

Who is Mike Kurylo again?? Is he some sort of big time analyst or something?? :sleeping

"Anthony has taken 93 field goal attempts to net 108 points, a poor ratio. And while the league average in true shooting percentage is usually around 54 percent, Anthony has a TS% of 50.2 percent for New York. Compare those numbers to Chauncey Billups, who has scored 93 points on only 49 shots, with a 65.5 TS% in the blue and orange, and it's clear who has been the better Knick thus far. "

Judging by Billups 65.5%TS, he would be considered the most efficient scoring guard of all-time...

Just cuz he gets to the line late in games and gets cheap FT's due to his FT%, doesn't make him a an efficient scorer..

He's simply getting much more FT's to FG's attempts than Carmelo Anthony.....TOO EASY

[Glide2keva]

Some one tells you player A has a TS% of 55%....player B = 54%...what can you gather from that??
Nothing.

[chazzy]

Who is Mike Kurylo again?? Is he some sort of big time analyst or something?? :sleeping

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34940/look-whos-shooting-now

[bwink23]

Chauncy Billups in 2011....

40.3%FG, 32.8% from 3, and 90.2% FT's....TS%= 61.7%.

That's incredibly high for a mediocre FG shooter isn't it??

We know WHY that is:

12.3 FG's to 6.3 FT's....DUH :hammerhead: a 2:1 ratio...of course your TS% is gonna be high when your a 90.2%FT shooter, which by the way is what he always his, an outcome not affected by officiating...

Carmelo Anthony in 2011....

19.9 FG / 7.9 FT...a 2.52 to 1 ratio...BIG DIFFERENCE.

TS% = 55.7%


The difference is largely due to the ratio of FT's to FG's....that dude is comparing Billups scoring to Carmelos...


LOL...BIG FAIL right there...that's why a real analyst, he is NOT>

[bwink23]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34940/look-whos-shooting-now


Henry Abbott an NBA analyst?? :rolleyes:

Come on son, you got to do better than that....:no:

[bwink23]

Just compare Kobe's FG shooting and FT shooting in 2009 to 2005...

That's all you need to know on how RETARDED TS % is... :no:

[chazzy]

Henry Abbott an NBA analyst?? :rolleyes:

Come on son, you got to do better than that....:no:
What the f*ck does he do for a living then?

[iDefend5]

What the f*ck does he do for a living then?
pornstar, he goes by the name of johnny sins

[Droid101]

No moron. Those are great shooting stats from the field. I can look at his 3's if I want his percentage there. Same with FT"s. I don't need a lumped together stat that hides bad shooting from the floor and is boosted by FT's. I like to know what he actually did.

Are you asking if he hit 100% of his shots from 3, or what if he took all of his shots from three? If he hit them then he was shooting well from the floor overall. What's the problem?

They don't need to evolve if the game is still the same. You can't use stats that are lumped together for a game like basketball. Baseball? Sure because everyone gets the same amount of at-bats, and they all have to play defense. There is a measurable amount of data that can be broken down in many different ways because there aren't too many variables from game to game.

Basketball is too nuanced for that. Every game is very different than the game before and they all have their own ebb and flow. That's where you stat nerds get it messed up.
Yeah, so that's why the more successful front offices have been leveraging advanced stats for years now.

:facepalm :facepalm

[bwink23]

What the f*ck does he do for a living then?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtLw6MPXZrM

Listen to the beginning....he's nothing more than a stat nerd himself....when did he ever pick up an NBA basketball, or coach an NBA team??

Put the advanced stats in the garbage NERD.

[The Iron Fist]

Shot selection is part of being a great scorer. LeBron and Durant rarely take the shots Bryant does because they're sub 40% shots that just hurt their teams.
And how many rings have those two collected with the high percentage shots they've taken?

[pegasus]

Had Kobe not taken all of those last second end of quarter shots, he would have averaged almost exactly the same but shot about .025 better.

He took 22138 shots in his 1135-game career. He probably takes 2 of those shots every game, but let's just say he takes 1. That means he could have averaged the same number of points by taking 22138-1135= 21003 shots while making the same amount of baskets, which is 10052. His FG% goes up to .479, which is very good for a volume scorer.

That would have also increased his 3 point % to .440, assuming 90% of those last second shots were 3 pointers, which is very likely.Don't even tell me that he hasn't taken those shots throughout his entire career, and you damn well know there are certain players who won't take those shots even if their lives depended on.

See tonight's game. Right before the buzzer Lebron passed the ball to Joel fuc*king Anthony at the half court:facepalm And Evans just made a half court shot at the end of the 1st quarter.

This is why Kobe is a winner, and Lebron is a perpetual loser

[bwink23]

The flaws in TS% are so easy to pick out it's pathetic...

The lower the FG/FT ratio, the higher the TS%....LOL at the fools who think certain players force the action into where they get a higher amount of FT's to FG's....REFS play a bigger part in that than they do.

Apparently TS% lovers like to cite Chauncy Billups....why, cuz he gets more FTs to FGs than most players....:rolleyes:

PLEASE, save your bullcrap for retarded people. :violin:

[Micku]

TS% also factors in the amount of shots one has taken from the field including FTs. I know you don't like TS% so we can just agree to disagree in this case.

Kobe scored more points in '05 than he did in '09 with less FGA and more FTA. That's why his TS% was higher. Like I said, being a better scorer goes beyond just who scores more ppg and has a higher FG%, eFG%, and TS% though.

I think it depends on your definition of a scorer.

There are players who could score a lot more, but choose not to. It's hard to tell which players could do this since it doesn't really come up in stats I don't think, you just have to watch the games.

There's players who score efficiently.

There's players who score anywhere from the floor.

And there's players that could just get points up on the board, like Iverson or something.

Of course I think that putting up points with a certain amount of efficiency is a good indication of who is the best scorer, but everyone has their own interpretation.

On topic:

Kobe's been ok in terms of being efficient. He was a little bit below league average I think? You can argue is because he shot at a high volume, and he was a perimeter player. Nowadays tho, there are a lot of perimeter players who could score a bunch of points with more efficiency. Regardless, Kobe stayed consistent of his average efficiency. lol

[ZenMaster]

Here's a prime example how FT's (officiating) affects TS%:


2005 Kobe Bryant = 56.3% TS%.

2009 Kobe Bryant = 56.1% TS%.....:facepalm

2005 Bryant = 43.3%FG, 33.9% 3's, 81.6%FT..
2009 Bryant = 46.7%FG, 35.1% 3's, 85.6%FT.. :wtf:

Now who here would argue that Kobe was better during the 2005 season vs. 2009?? I would hope NO ONE, if your smart.

How does Kobe shoot better in every aspect of shooting, but have a WORSE TS%??

Easy, FT's.....2005 = 10.1 FT's a game....2009 = 6.9 FT's a game.

This more than proves how TS % is absolute GARBAGE when judging a players scoring efficiency....

If your shooting better in every aspect of scoring across the board....you were a better shooter that year, PERIOD>


There's a difference to being the better shooter and the better scorer.

For example Steve Novak vs Lebron James.

[bwink23]

There's a difference to being the better shooter and the better scorer.

For example Steve Novak vs Lebron James.


But we are talking about the SAME SCORER here....Kobe shot the ball all year long better in 2009 than in 2005...

I don't give 2 shits what the TS% says about that...if you take X-amount of FG's, FTs and 3's in a season and shoot better than another season across the board...You sure as hell were the more efficient scorer. Period.

[ZenMaster]

The flaws in TS% are so easy to pick out it's pathetic...

The lower the FG/FT ratio, the higher the TS%....LOL at the fools who think certain players force the action into where they get a higher amount of FT's to FG's....REFS play a bigger part in that than they do.

Apparently TS% lovers like to cite Chauncy Billups....why, cuz he gets more FTs to FGs than most players....:rolleyes:

PLEASE, save your bullcrap for retarded people. :violin:

You should try and coach a basketball team and use the philosophy "free throws are random" and see how far you get.

[barnett114]

bitchwink23 still failing.

[ZenMaster]

But we are talking about the SAME SCORER here....Kobe shot the ball all year long better in 2009 than in 2005...

I don't give 2 shits what the TS% says about that...if you take X-amount of FG's, FTs and 3's in a season and shoot better than another season across the board...You sure as hell were the more efficient scorer. Period.

You're wrong, FT/FG(free throw rate) is very important because there's a direct correlation between amount of free throws shot and games won.

Even though you're talking about the same scorer he was still a better shooter one year, and a better scorer the other.

[bwink23]

You're wrong, FT/FG(free throw rate) is very important because there's a direct correlation between amount of free throws shot and games won.

Even though you're talking about the same scorer he was still a better shooter one year, and a better scorer the other.


PLEASEEEEE......:no:

Your not a better scorer when your shooting worse in all aspects of the game...

SHOOTING = SCORING...you can't score if you can't shoot....

The refs giving Kobe an abnormal amount of foul shots, doesn't make a Kobe a better scorer. He simply was getting calls.

NO ONE is gonna call a player who shoots worse than another guy in every aspect a better scorer cuz the refs give him whistles....:sleeping

[chazzy]

The refs giving Kobe an abnormal amount of foul shots, doesn't make a Kobe a better scorer. He simply was getting calls.

No, he was attacking the basket more and was more athletic. He was past his physical peak in 09. 09 Kobe isn't getting to the line 10 times in 05

[barnett114]

bwink23 is a fool

[ZenMaster]

PLEASEEEEE......:no:

Your not a better scorer when your shooting worse in all aspects of the game...

SHOOTING = SCORING...you can't score if you can't shoot....

The refs giving Kobe an abnormal amount of foul shots, doesn't make a Kobe a better scorer. He simply was getting calls.

NO ONE is gonna call a player who shoots worse than another guy in every aspect a better scorer cuz the refs give him whistles....:sleeping


Apparently that's your perception of how officiating in basketball works.

My perception is that players work and set themselves up for opportunites to draw fouls, it's something they along with how the team plays offensively affect.
Some players try and create contact and finish through it, others try to shy away from it to get a cleaner shot with less chance of a fouls.

Like I said, try and coach a basketball team from the philosophy that free throws are random and see how far you get.

[Yanch856]

... Cos he's got smaller mits than Mike.

[ILLsmak]

Kobe is inefficient because he takes dumb shots that go in like 1/3rd or less of the time. Rational people know if Kobe didn't play so stupid a lot of the time, he could be shooting over 50%.

-Smak

[bwink23]

Apparently that's your perception of how officiating in basketball works.

My perception is that players work and set themselves up for opportunites to draw fouls, it's something they along with how the team plays offensively affect.
Some players try and create contact and finish through it, others try to shy away from it to get a cleaner shot with less chance of a fouls.

Like I said, try and coach a basketball team from the philosophy that free throws are random and see how far you get.


Just, just STOP IT.....:facepalm :facepalm

The impact officiating has on foul calls is far more profound. How many FT's does Durant lose without the "rip-thru" move eliminated this year??

I don't care WHO you are....the amount of FT's you get doesn't determine your efficiency as a scorer. PERIOD>:hammerhead:

Anyone can tell their team to attack the basket and go for more foul calls....that doesn't change anything about a player's scoring abilities. Usage rate and officiating determines foul attempts, not players.

[Pinkhearts]

Haters gonna hate as always.

Volume scorer on average efficiency = great scorer. He can hit a high amount of shots at an average rate of an ordinary player. Not many guys can put up that many kind of shots.

Also you need to know where Kobe plays...on the perimeter/midrange taking tons of difficult contested jumpers when his team cannot create anything. Of course his percentage suffers. But guess what he frees up the inside for his big men to operate. Guys like Lebron and Jordan play closer to the basket and get better percentages.

So if you put together a bunch of high efficiency players your team will always win? They'd probably get in each others way....just look at Wade and Lebron. Both need the ball in their hands and slash to the basket so they get in each others way. If you play Shaq and Duncan together things are gonna get horrible as both are low post players.

Not saying that Kobe is better than all those guys, but using these statistics as an argument just shows illogical hate on your part.

[LakersReign]

Haters gonna hate as always.

Volume scorer on average efficiency = great scorer. He can hit a high amount of shots at an average rate of an ordinary player. Not many guys can put up that many kind of shots.

Also you need to know where Kobe plays...on the perimeter/midrange taking tons of difficult contested jumpers when his team cannot create anything. Of course his percentage suffers. But guess what he frees up the inside for his big men to operate. Guys like Lebron and Jordan play closer to the basket and get better percentages.

So if you put together a bunch of high efficiency players your team will always win? They'd probably get in each others way....just look at Wade and Lebron. Both need the ball in their hands and slash to the basket so they get in each others way. If you play Shaq and Duncan together things are gonna get horrible as both are low post players.

Not saying that Kobe is better than all those guys, but using these statistics as an argument just shows illogical hate on your part.


Pay no attention to the dancing a**clown known as bwink23. The moron is a pathetic Kobe hater who clearly knows nothing about basketball. Disregard anything he says.:sleeping

[Lebron23]

Kobe is inefficient because he takes dumb shots that go in like 1/3rd or less of the time. Rational people know if Kobe didn't play so stupid a lot of the time, he could be shooting over 50%.

-Smak


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[bwink23]

Pay no attention to the dancing a**clown known as bwink23. The moron is a pathetic Kobe hater who clearly knows nothing about basketball. Disregard anything he says.:sleeping


You make this same statement in 70% of everything you post, LOL!!! are you mental?? Your telling people to disregard stuff, yet here you are, NOT disregarding yourself.

Congratulations, another uneventful post from your truly...the worst poster in all of ISH....FakersRain.....:hammerhead:

[k0kakw0rld]

so far the most efficient player in the nba has been the biggest underachiver and choker over the past 9 years

so.... whats effiency ever won anyone?

is there a PER trophy?
If by underachievement you mean 2

[SlayerEnraged]

It's cause people mad cause their idol would shoot 30% given the looks Kobe gets (whether it be his fault or when his teammates give him the ball with the clock winding down).

[LakersReign]

I agree.

People think we can judge who is a superior scorer simply based on who scores more ppg, higher TS%, higher FG%, higher eFG%, but the truth is that it goes beyond that. There are a numerous of other factors to determine who is the better scorer and why some players stats are like the way they are.

LeBron has never been the best scorer in the league to me despite the fact that he has led the league in scoring at some point and is efficient. The reason why he was never the best scorer in the league to me was because I could never depend on him in the clutch like I could with Kobe back in his prime ('06-'09) or Durant today.

There are too many factors that people love to ignore because of the amount of numerical data we have access to. Sadly, the numerical data does not give us all of the information.

The funniest thing to to me is watching obvious idiotic Lebronites, quoting stats like we're supposed to believe they really know what they mean. They can't form a single coherent defense for the things they say, but are quick to quote stats to try and make it look they do. Then whenever you challenge them, they haul a**, proving they truly know nothing of what they speak. It's like in algebra/geometry/calculus class, when you're given an equation, and told to not only give the answer, but also how you got the answer. There was always that one kid in class, who pretended to be mr know-it-all, and would give an answer, just to try and show off at how smart he supposedly was. But when asked to show how he arrived at that solution, had no answer, proving how full of sh*t he is. Same applies to Lebronites.:rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

AWWWW man!!!!

I wrote this big long post and accidentally deleted it. God damn it.

[Micku]

Haters gonna hate as always.

Volume scorer on average efficiency = great scorer. He can hit a high amount of shots at an average rate of an ordinary player. Not many guys can put up that many kind of shots.

Also you need to know where Kobe plays...on the perimeter/midrange taking tons of difficult contested jumpers when his team cannot create anything. Of course his percentage suffers. But guess what he frees up the inside for his big men to operate. Guys like Lebron and Jordan play closer to the basket and get better percentages.

So if you put together a bunch of high efficiency players your team will always win? They'd probably get in each others way....just look at Wade and Lebron. Both need the ball in their hands and slash to the basket so they get in each others way. If you play Shaq and Duncan together things are gonna get horrible as both are low post players.

Not saying that Kobe is better than all those guys, but using these statistics as an argument just shows illogical hate on your part.

Sometimes that's his own fault tho. He has bad shot selection. There are ways for him to get out of that and get more open for his shots, but he doesn't do it.

[I.R.Beast]

A lot.

Since MJ (another efficient player) left:

Tim Duncan and Shaq won many titles due to their amazing and efficient play. As did Wade and Dirk.


Meanwhile, inefficient players like Iverson, Francis, V. Carter, and Marbury came into the league with all the hype and never won a thing.
Dunk and Shaq are post players you tool.....they play close to the basket. Wade plays at the rim. Kobe is primarily a jump shooter whom consistently get 85+% of his points from jumpers. He's not inefficient and never was....

Dirk was the furthest thing from efficient in the NBA finals. PER is trash.

[All Net]

Because for the simple reason all his main rivals in the top 3-5 over the years have always shot around 48-50% and thats all people have compared him with. Wade and Lebron are good examples of that.

[iDefend5]

Because for the simple reason all his main rivals in the top 3-5 over the years have always shot around 48-50% and thats all people have compared him with. Wade and Lebron are good examples of that.
His rivals were way more inefficient than he was back in the early 2000s.

[madmax]

His rivals were way more inefficient than he was back in the early 2000s.

who cares about early 00's?:confusedshrug:
Current perimeter superstars are simply much better and efficient than the ones 10 years ago - simple fact. The things which were considered "elite" back then are a norm nowadays. Hell, Lebron is having the most efficient season ever for a perimeter superstar player, yet everyone acts like it's a normal thing LMAO

[RazorBaLade]

who cares about early 00's?:confusedshrug:
Current perimeter superstars are simply much better and efficient than the ones 10 years ago - simple fact. The things which were considered "elite" back then are a norm nowadays. Hell, Lebron is having the most efficient season ever for a perimeter superstar player, yet everyone acts like it's a normal thing LMAO

thats because he stopped beinga perimeter player

[Odinn]

Classic Kobe-stans...

Hey, Kobe isn't inefficient. Look at the relative league averages!
Hey, how can Bill Russell be in top 5 ever with that fg%?!?!

I guess we should congratulate Kobe for being average...

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Kiddlovesnets]

A better question should be 'Why are there still so many topics concerning Kobe?'.

[PTB Fan]

Because of his bad shot selection and when compared to guys who had higher overall efficiency than him.. he gets blamed. It's not like he wasn't capable.. but he took too many bad shots such as contested fade away over two defenders etc.

And in the all time debate where there were players with higher efficiency, this hurts him a bit.

[f0und]

because he has way too many 7-26 games for a player of his supposed caliber.

[bwink23]

His rivals were way more inefficient than he was back in the early 2000s.


His rivals weren't playing with the most dominant big sucking up all the defensive pressure either.

[bwink23]

thats because he stopped beinga perimeter player


FOOL....perimeter players' jobs aren't to stand on the wings and shoot jumpers...THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB....it's to create plays that lead to easy scores. The easiest scores are near the rim...if you can get there, that makes you more effective and dangerous, cuz now your making the defense react, which leads to kick outs for open shots.

You can't fault Lebron for being able to do what Kobe can't.

[White Mamba]

because he has way too many 7-26 games for a player of his supposed caliber.

Really? how many?

[jrong]

I don't get it.

The league average for FG% from 2000-2010 was around the 44-46% range and that is exactly the range Kobe shot from 2000-2010, so how exactly was he inefficient? How is he also inefficient when he always shot in the 55% to 57% range in TS% when the league average of TS% from 2000-2010 was always around the 52-54% range?

If I had to take a guess though it is because Michael Jordan's FG% was always in the 50% so the fact that his FG% was below Jordan's FG% all of a suddenly makes him inefficient opposed to not being as efficient as Michael Jordan. I think some people need to fix their word usage here because that doesn't make Kobe inefficient, just not as efficient or as good as MJ.

It's pretty funny how bad these MJ-Kobe comparisons have damaged Kobe's legacy.


Here are the actual League average for FG%

2000-2001 - 44.3%
2001-2002 - 44.5%
2002-2003 - 44.2%
2003-2004 - 43.9%
2004-2005 - 44.7%
2005-2006 - 45.4%
2006-2007 - 45.8%
2007-2008 - 45.7%
2008-2009 - 45.9%
2009-2010 - 46.1%

Kobe's FG% from '01-'10 (his prime) +/- means how much better or worse than it is compared to league average.

2000-2001 - 46.4% - +2.1
2001-2002 - 46.9% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 45.1% - +0.9
2003-2004 - 43.8% - -0.1
2004-2005 - 43.3% - -1.4
2005-2006 - 45.0% - -0.4
2006-2007 - 46.3% - +0.5
2007-2008 - 45.9% - +0.2
2008-2009 - 46.7% - +0.8
2009-2010 - 45.6% - -0.5

Funny for three of the seasons of the four seasons where his FG% were seasons where he suffered injuries. (all except '05-'06).


Here are Kobe's TS% and eFG% compared to the league average

Kobe's TS% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 55.2% - +3.4
2001-2002 - 54.4% - +2.4
2002-2003 - 55.0% - +3.1
2003-2004 - 55.1% - +3.5
2004-2005 - 56.3% - +3.3
2005-2006 - 55.9% - +2.4
2006-2007 - 58.0% - +3.9
2007-2008 - 57.6% - +3.6
2008-2009 - 56.1% - +1.5
2009-2010 - 54.5% - +0.2

Kobe's eFG% from '01-'10 (his prime)

2000-2001 - 48.4% - +1.1
2001-2002 - 47.9% - +0.2
2002-2003 - 48.3% - +1.0
2003-2004 - 46.8% - -0.3
2004-2005 - 48.2% - the exact league average
2005-2006 - 49.1% - +0.2
2006-2007 - 50.2% - +0.6
2007-2008 - 50.3% - +0.5
2008-2009 - 48.8% - -1.1
2009-2010 - 48.7% - -1.4

So is Kobe just a league-average level player? He's considered inefficient because compared to not only the GOAT but also his contemporary mega-star peers (James, Wade, and formerly CP), he is quite inefficient.

[White Mamba]

because he has way too many 7-26 games for a player of his supposed caliber.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

http://up353.siz.co.il/up3/zylawzz0m4mz.jpg

he only got 8 of those in 16 seasons! that means he got 0.5 of those every season:roll: :roll:

[bwink23]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

http://up353.siz.co.il/up3/zylawzz0m4mz.jpg

he only got 8 of those in 16 seasons! that means he got 0.5 of those every season:roll: :roll:


Yet he shoots under 35% from the floor 1 out of every 3 games in his career :confusedshrug: