Where Does Dirk Rank Among All Time PFs?

[Round Mound]

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-Garnett
6-7 McHale or Dirk

[StateOfMind12]

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Charles Barkley

I have had a hard time deciding who should be 3rd and who should be 4th between KG and Dirk recently.

[Round Mound]

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Charles Barkley

I have had a hard time deciding who should be 3rd and who should be 4th between KG and Dirk recently.

Explain to me why Dirk is Better than Barkley? Ring crap again?

Other than Far Shooting and FT Shooting he was nothing on Charles.

Charles was a Better Pure Scorer (See 2-Point FG% for that and if u wan`t FG%) especially in the Play-Offs

Charles was a Better Rebounder

Charles was a Better Passer and Creator

Charles was a Better Ball Handler

Charles was a Better Post Player (Dirk doesn`t have one)

Charles had Multiple Skills

Charles was a Better Floor Defender and Team Defender (Highest SPG Avg for a PF ever)

Charles was Doubled More...Sorry WAY MORE.

Charles demanded Rule Change? For Dirk? :no:

Charles was Better Shot Blocker..

As Defenders they where both NOT Great but Above Average.

No way Was Dirk Better than Charles

[Clippersfan86]

So predictable :roll: .

[bdreason]

I have him 5th, after KG.

Duncan
Barkley
Malone
KG
Dirk

[pauk]

Behind Duncan and Malone... thats for sure... and probably Barkley, but you could debate it using the almighty ring argument...

i think KG, Pettit, Dirk is much more debatable....

[Jotaro Durant]

duncan
malone
barkley
dirk
garnett wish can be higher:(
pettit

[jlauber]

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-Garnett
6-7 McHale or Dirk

Well, Dirk is definitely a better player than McHale (who was a great player BTW.) IMHO, he could be anywhere from 2nd thru 6th on that list. BTW, Jerry Lucas never gets mentioned in these conversations, but he was a beast with 23+ foot range back in the 60's. He was every bit the player then, that Kevin Love is today.

[blablabla]

5th behind kg

[Harison]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Malone
4-5. Barkley/Pettit
6. Dirk

[knickswin]

I don't really like rankings because I think they're arbitrary, but I would take Dirk over anyone other than Duncan. He is a great scorer and unquestionably a winner. You never doubt that the Maveicks are a much better team when Dirk is on the floor.

[Unstop]

wow? deja vu?
Guys really?
we already had this thread. why starting this conversation over and over again? u have too much time thinking about this every single day.
if u learned one thing in those discussions, its the fact that those players are pretty close.
looks like some of u have a personal fav. and this discussion will never end if u start it again :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Duncan is the clear cut number 1.

After that:

Barkley, Dirk, Malone, KG, and Pettit could be in any order from 2 to 6.

Mchale is absolutely not better than any of those guys though.

I rank Dirk 3 or 4 usually. He most likely will go down as the 2nd best pf ever on my list if he plays well for 2 to 3 more years though. It kind of depends on how he finishes his career, but its hard not to lean towards Dirk when everything is so close and he's done something in the playoffs that Barkley and Malone simply never did.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dirk>>>>KG

[Rnbizzle]

Explain to me why Dirk is Better than Barkley? Ring crap again?

Other than Far Shooting and FT Shooting he was nothing on Charles.

Charles was a Better Pure Scorer (See 2-Point FG% for that and if u wan`t FG%) especially in the Play-Offs

Charles was a Better Rebounder

Charles was a Better Passer and Creator

Charles was a Better Ball Handler

Charles was a Better Post Player (Dirk doesn`t have one)

Charles had Multiple Skills

Charles was a Better Floor Defender and Team Defender (Highest SPG Avg for a PF ever)

Charles was Doubled More...Sorry WAY MORE.

Charles demanded Rule Change? For Dirk? :no:

Charles was Better Shot Blocker..

As Defenders they where both NOT Great but Above Average.

No way Was Dirk Better than Charles
Gee who saw this post coming?

[D-Wade316]

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-Garnett
6-7 McHale or Dirk
:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Explain to me why Dirk is Better than Barkley? Ring crap again?

Other than Far Shooting and FT Shooting he was nothing on Charles.

Charles was a Better Pure Scorer (See 2-Point FG% for that and if u wan`t FG%) especially in the Play-Offs

Charles was a Better Rebounder

Charles was a Better Passer and Creator

Charles was a Better Ball Handler

Charles was a Better Post Player (Dirk doesn`t have one)

Charles had Multiple Skills

Charles was a Better Floor Defender and Team Defender (Highest SPG Avg for a PF ever)

Charles was Doubled More...Sorry WAY MORE.

Charles demanded Rule Change? For Dirk? :no:

Charles was Better Shot Blocker..

As Defenders they where both NOT Great but Above Average.

No way Was Dirk Better than Charles

There is nothing wrong with saying Barkley was better. Its absolutely close enough to say that.

However, this notion that Barkley was definitely better than Dirk is hilarious. Right now its a toss up. If Dirk plays 3 more years at a similar level to right now? Then it won't be close...but in a different way.

[Figlo]

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-Garnett
6-7 McHale or Dirk


Duncan
Malone
Dirk
Barkley
KG


how can you possibly put Barkley at 2

he might be 3(arguable though)

Barkley had all the great talent along with him in his journey in the NBA he just wasn't good enough. Dirk with minimum talent overcame the great miami heat. Dirk is a true superstar of this game.

[Odinn]

It's too hard to rank Pettit...

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Charles Barkley (Barkley was better player than Karl Malone but it's a toss up between these 2.)
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kevin Garnett

[Brunch@Five]

I fail to see how McHale is even in the discussion, given how his career went with never beingt the 1st option or best player on his team.

[Legends66NBA7]

Shouldn't Elvin Hayes be in the discussion as well ?

I'm sure he's also better than McHale all-time.

[magnax1]

Shouldn't Elvin Hayes be in the discussion as well ?

I'm sure he's also better than McHale all-time.
And McAdoo.
I honestly haven't seen a logical case be made for Dirk above KG, Duncan, Barkley or Malone though. People who say he's better then any of those guys really need to go back and watch some of their games.

[Legends66NBA7]

And McAdoo.
I honestly haven't seen a logical case be made for Dirk above KG, Duncan, Barkley or Malone though. People who say he's better then any of those guys really need to go back and watch some of their games.

Ah, that's true too, McAdoo is a PF/C and did have one the best peaks of all-time.

I think you can make a case of resume and playoff performances for Dirk, but as players, I think it's a bit different...

[FatComputerNerd]

Duncan is a center

Webber > Dirk

[magnax1]

Duncan is a center

Webber > Dirk
Peak vs Peak, definitely, but career I think it has to go to Dirk. Same with McHale.

[Fazotronic]

lol. what a obvious agenta putting mchale and dirk together.
let me guess, you saw a couple posts overrating dirk lately, so you decided to make this thread in hope ppl would agree with you.

unlike barkleys lazy ass, dirk is still going and his game is aging beautifully.
he propably hasn't past barkley but you better hope he stops delivering great post season performances or you have to come up with better excuses.

[DMAVS41]

And McAdoo.
I honestly haven't seen a logical case be made for Dirk above KG, Duncan, Barkley or Malone though. People who say he's better then any of those guys really need to go back and watch some of their games.

You should be the one going back and watching. Any notion that there is no case for Dirk over the likes of KG, Barkley, and Malone is just idiotic. Sorry.

[Unstop]

:facepalm :blah :blah

@dmavs: let him talk, who cares.

[magnax1]

You should be the one going back and watching. Any notion that there is no case for Dirk over the likes of KG, Barkley, and Malone is just idiotic. Sorry.
Coming from the resident Dirk homer, that really doesn't mean a whole lot.

[rodman91]

At least top 4. Maybe even 2nd.

[pegasus]

Duncan
Barkley/Dirk
Dirk/Barkley
Malone
KG

That's my top 5.

Dirk had a legendary playoff run, topped with killing one of the most stacked teams of all time in almost every fourth quarter in the finals. That's one of the reasons I rank him that high.

[DMAVS41]

Coming from the resident Dirk homer, that really doesn't mean a whole lot.

Defend your statements though.

Who was the best playoff performer of that group?

If you were going into the 4th qtr of a tied playoff game...tell me how you would rank them.

Dirk didn't just fall into winning 50 more regular season games 11 straight times (only been done 4 times in NBA history....and Dirk's help is the worst out of all of them)

People just under-rate the hell out of Dirk because he destroyed their bs perceptions and doesn't fit the "mold" of what people think a pf should be.

Hell, just looking at the playoff numbers alone should show you how the words "clearly" or "easily" should never be thrown in. They all won 1mvp...2 for Karl. Dirk is the only one with a finals MVP. They all made the finals at least once. KG, Dirk, Malone twice....Barkley once iirc.

All similar levels of production. KG was by far the best defender but the worst offensive player. Malone was better defensively than Dirk and Barkley, but only marginally better in terms of impact. Offensively Dirk and Barkley were much better than the other two and far more clutch...with Dirk being easily the most clutch.

Dirk actually won a title without an all nba teammate and did so in about as impressive fashion as possible.

Everyone uses the MJ excuse for Barkley and Malone. How about the Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe excuse for Dirk? You know how only 3 teams have made it out of the West since 99? Dirk was playing in the same conference with 3 of the 10 best players ever (2 of them on the same freaking team)...along with super talented teams like the Kings and Suns and Thunder. The West from 99 to 12 was simply one of the most loaded conferences in NBA history.

Yet Dirk still managed to not only put up legendary numbers, but lead his team to great regular season success. 3 trips to the wcf. 2 trips to the finals. And a title.

On any objective level you'd have to rank them all very close. Sorry...

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/248/274/115954148_crop_650x440.jpg

http://stacheketball.neswblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Charles-Barkley-and-Donut.jpg

[97 bulls]

I don't see why mchale is ranked so high by some of you guys. He spent half of his best years as a sixth man. He failed miserably in his one year as the man in 89.

As far as the topic

Duncan
Petit
Malone
Garnett
Nowitzki
Barkley
Webber
Hayes

As far as petit... I never saw him play, but he's accomplished more than any pf on the list not named duncan. 1 nba championship, 2 mvps, 3 allstar game mvps, multiple allnba awards. You can dismiss pre 70s in an alltime ranking.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see why mchale is ranked so high by some of you guys. He spent half of his best years as a sixth man. He failed miserably in his one year as the man in 89.

As far as the topic

Duncan
Petit
Malone
Garnett
Nowitzki
Barkley
Webber
Hayes

As far as petit... I never saw him play, but he's accomplished more than any pf on the list not named duncan. 1 nba championship, 2 mvps, 3 allstar game mvps, multiple allnba awards. You can dismiss pre 70s in an alltime ranking.

Pettit is hard to rank because most people here just never saw him play. He might have been the clear cut 2nd best pf....who knows. He's definitely in that 2 to 6 range though.

[magnax1]

Defend your statements though.

Who was the best playoff performer of that group?

If you were going into the 4th qtr of a tied playoff game...tell me how you would rank them.

Dirk didn't just fall into winning 50 more regular season games 11 straight times (only been done 4 times in NBA history....and Dirk's help is the worst out of all of them)

People just under-rate the hell out of Dirk because he destroyed their bs perceptions and doesn't fit the "mold" of what people think a pf should be.

Hell, just looking at the playoff numbers alone should show you how the words "clearly" or "easily" should never be thrown in. They all won 1mvp...2 for Karl. Dirk is the only one with a finals MVP. They all made the finals at least once. KG, Dirk, Malone twice....Barkley once iirc.

All similar levels of production. KG was by far the best defender but the worst offensive player. Malone was better defensively than Dirk and Barkley, but only marginally better in terms of impact. Offensively Dirk and Barkley were much better than the other two and far more clutch...with Dirk being easily the most clutch.

Dirk actually won a title without an all nba teammate and did so in about as impressive fashion as possible.

Everyone uses the MJ excuse for Barkley and Malone. How about the Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe excuse for Dirk? You know how only 3 teams have made it out of the West since 99? Dirk was playing in the same conference with 3 of the 10 best players ever (2 of them on the same freaking team)...along with super talented teams like the Kings and Suns and Thunder. The West from 99 to 12 was simply one of the most loaded conferences in NBA history.

Yet Dirk still managed to not only put up legendary numbers, but lead his team to great regular season success. 3 trips to the wcf. 2 trips to the finals. And a title.

On any objective level you'd have to rank them all very close. Sorry...
I'm going to make this very simple. We're going to do a comparison of their playoff numbers prime vs prime.
Dirk's prime playoff #s
26-10-3 on 60% TS% (probably the poorest defense of the bunch along with Barkley)
KG's prime playoff #s
24-15-5 53% TS%, best defender of the bunch by a huge margin. If we're being realistic, KG is right up there with Duncan, not Barkley and Malone.
Barkley's prime playoff #s
26-14-5 60% TS%
Malone's prime playoff #s (spanning over 13 seasons, where all the others are in the 5-8 year range)
27-11-3 on 53%
So Dirk and Malone were obviously the weakest, but Dirk's is over a 5 year period compared to 13 for Malone, making it kind of a lopsided comparison. I'm sure you're going to talk about how much the Mavericks won even though it's clearly been a result of management never leaving Dirk without help like Barkley or KG. The reality is that Dirk's prime is tame compared to the guys you say he should be listed among. He's been a great scorer, but in terms of everything else he does, he just doesn't compare.
I'm going to leave it at that though, because I know you're just going to keep coming with more unrepresentative arguments like you always do no matter how clear I make it.

[DMAVS41]

I'm going to make this very simple. We're going to do a comparison of their playoff numbers prime vs prime.
Dirk's prime playoff #s
26-10-3 on 60% TS% (probably the poorest defense of the bunch along with Barkley)
KG's prime playoff #s
24-15-5 53% TS%, best defender of the bunch by a huge margin. If we're being realistic, KG is right up there with Duncan, not Barkley and Malone.
Barkley's prime playoff #s
26-14-5 60% TS%
Malone's prime playoff #s (spanning over 13 seasons, where all the others are in the 5-8 year range)
27-11-3 on 53%
So Dirk and Malone were obviously the weakest, but Dirk's is over a 5 year period compared to 13 for Malone, making it kind of a lopsided comparison. I'm sure you're going to talk about how much the Mavericks won even though it's clearly been a result of management never leaving Dirk without help like Barkley or KG. The reality is that Dirk's prime is tame compared to the guys you say he should be listed among. He's been a great scorer, but in terms of everything else he does, he just doesn't compare.
I'm going to leave it at that though, because I know you're just going to keep coming with more unrepresentative arguments like you always do no matter how clear I make it.

Of course you are going to leave. And Dirk's playoff numbers for his career are:

26/10/3 58.4% TS

LOL at acting like its only 5 years. Its been 11.

What Dirk has accomplished puts him in that tier for sure...its not debatable. The funny thing is that Dirk now has a very good chance to pass them all up.

Better at everything else? How about just overall impact and playing the damn game? Malone and KG couldn't be trusted in the most important moments of games. Barkley lacked dedication and commitment.

You don't just fall into 11 straight seasons of 50 wins. You want to credit management? How about the 1 constant being Dirk. New players and new coaches....Dirk has been constant through and through.

You don't just fall into being 1 of 4 players in NBA history averaging over 25/10 in the playoffs.

You don't fall into one of the best playoff runs ever.

You don't fall into being one of the best elimination game players ever.

Again....I could go on. I'm not even saying Dirk should be ranked above those guys right now. I actually have KG over Dirk still....but to claim its not close or definitive is laughable.

[Bigsmoke]

Duncan
Malone
KG
Dirk
Barkley

[DMAVS41]

The correct answer is simply anywhere from 2 to 6 currently.

When Dirk is done? The correct answer will be number 2.

[creepingdeath]

Coming from the resident Dirk homer, that really doesn't mean a whole lot.
And since you are a known hater, we'll call it a draw.

[-p.tiddy-]

yes, Dirk has another 5 years or so left

when he retires he will likely be the clear cut #2

there will be no more KG vs. Dirk arguements

[guy]

Everyone uses the MJ excuse for Barkley and Malone. How about the Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe excuse for Dirk?

That excuse is pretty weak in both instances. Its a weak argument in general. It would be one thing if they were losing to these guys every single year.

[RRR3]

The Dirk over KG stuff is complete bullshit. I don't give a flying f*ck that Dirk won FMVP very recently, he was NEVER a better player than KG when both were in their primes. NEVER. And no one questioned it until Dirk won his FMVP this past year. Talk about living in the moment. It's not like KG doesn't have a ring, and although he didn't win FMVP, he played well in the playoffs that year with the Celtics in a significantly reduced role compared to his role in Minnesota. Prime vs prime KG was easily the better rebounder, was clearly a better passer/playmaker (Dirk is a solid passer, but KG actually could run an offense as a 7 footer!), and miles better at defense. Dirk is the better scorer, obviously, but KG's scoring is underrated to a retarded degree on ISH. Let's not act like Dirk is THAT far ahead of prime KG as a scorer, this isn't like comparing Michael Jordan and Corey Maggette, KG wasn't just a solid scorer, he could definitely score a lot too (9 straight years of 20+ PPG) , although Dirk is certainly a better scorer, the difference in their scoring is hardly enough for Dirk to overcome the massive advantage KG had in most (if not all) other aspects of basketball.

[-p.tiddy-]

The Dirk over KG stuff is complete bullshit. I don't give a flying f*ck that Dirk won FMVP very recently, he was NEVER a better player than KG when both were in their primes. NEVER. And no one questioned it until Dirk won his FMVP this past year. Talk about living in the moment. It's not like KG doesn't have a ring, and although he didn't win FMVP, he played well in the playoffs that year with the Celtics in a significantly reduced role compared to his role in Minnesota. Prime vs prime KG was easily the better rebounder, was clearly a better passer/playmaker (Dirk is a solid passer, but KG actually could run an offense as a 7 footer!), and miles better at defense. Dirk is the better scorer, obviously, but KG's scoring is underrated to a retarded degree on ISH. Let's not act like Dirk is THAT far ahead of prime KG as a scorer, this isn't like comparing Michael Jordan and Corey Maggette, KG could score a lot too, although Dirk is certainly a better scorer, the difference in their scoring is hardly enough for Dirk to overcome the massive advantage KG had in most (if not all) other aspects of basketball.
KG at his absolute best could never do what Dirk did last year...KG had to make a dream team to win a ring...he couldn't ever lead the T-Wolves to a championship.

Dirk won with....Terry

[Unstop]

I don't give a flying f*ck that Dirk won FMVP very recently, he was NEVER a better player than KG when both were in their primes. NEVER. And no one questioned it until Dirk won his FMVP this past year.
OMG its such a lie dude.
we have this discussion for many many years and people were crying " dirk didnt even win a championship"....but what happened now? we cant satisfy u.
and ur talking about primes? i dont give a shit about ur 1 second prime...ur so fukin ignorant, acting like its a clean cut...:applause:
just consider every single fact about both careers and dont talk about better players. KG was a better player but his time is long gone...
otherwise we could talk about tracy mcgrady in his prime ... nobody gives a shit about prime stats if they cant keep em up long enough.

[Jotaro Durant]

KG at his absolute best could never do what Dirk did last year...KG had to make a dream team to win a ring...he couldn't ever lead the T-Wolves to a championship.

Dirk won with....Terry
his cast is getting so underrated. kidd marion chandler covered up his defense liability completly

[-p.tiddy-]

his cast is getting so underrated. kidd marion chandler covered up his defense liability completly
I actually think Dirk had a great cast...however they weren't Allen/Pierce

[97 bulls]

KG at his absolute best could never do what Dirk did last year...KG had to make a dream team to win a ring...he couldn't ever lead the T-Wolves to a championship.

Dirk won with....Terry
This is where you mavs fans really do the mavs as a whole a huge disservice. Stop trying comparing the mavs players based on history and sttart comparing them to how they stack up vs their peers.

How many centers were better than tyson chandler last year? Not historically, cuz he's not going against prime shaq or olajuwan or wilt. Howard, Bynum, Noah. He's easily top 5

How many 6th men were better than terry last year? Just Odom

How many teams had as many on the ball defenders as the mavs? Marion, Stevenson, and Kidd. The job they did on durant, and james was huge

How many teams had a better bench than the mavs last year?

How many coaches were better than rick carlise? Poppovich. That's about it. Jackson was there physically. But he checked out mentally.

How many teams had as much size as the mavs? Besides dirk, they had 2 other 7 footers. Your back up center would've started on more than half the teams in the league.

And I havnt even mentioned jason kidd.

Hell how many owners are better than mark cuban? None.

Stop acting as if the mavs were nothing more than dirk nowitzki and a bunch of scrubs, and nothing else. Then what's more, is that when they lose, its everybodies fault but dirks.

[97 bulls]

I actually think Dirk had a great cast...however they weren't Allen/Pierce
So what? Would you be willing to trade everybody on the mavs besides dirk for ray allen and paul pierce?

[-p.tiddy-]

This is where you mavs fans really do the mavs as a whole a huge disservice. Stop trying comparing the mavs players based on history and sttart comparing them to how they stack up vs their peers.

How many centers were better than tyson chandler last year? Not historically, cuz he's not going against prime shaq or olajuwan or wilt. Howard, Bynum, Noah. He's easily top 5

How many 6th men were better than terry last year? Just Odom

How many teams had as many on the ball defenders as the mavs? Marion, Stevenson, and Kidd. The job they did on durant, and james was huge

How many teams had a better bench than the mavs last year?

How many coaches were better than rick carlise? Poppovich. That's about it. Jackson was there physically. But he checked out mentally.

How many teams had as much size as the mavs? Besides dirk, they had 2 other 7 footers. Your back up center would've started on more than half the teams in the league.

And I havnt even mentioned jason kidd.

Hell how many owners are better than mark cuban? None.

Stop acting as if the mavs were nothing more than dirk nowitzki and a bunch of scrubs, and nothing else. Then what's more, is that when they lose, its everybodies fault but dirks.
read the post above yours...I loved the whole team...I agree with MOST of your post

but it wasn't ...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_N53lnEL5iKI/S18Y1WQURZI/AAAAAAAAAA4/LIeKeO17dos/S740/celtics-big-3.jpg

[-p.tiddy-]

So what? Would you be willing to trade everybody on the mavs besides dirkthe for ray allen and paul pierce?
I wouldn't trade that team for anyone, all of the 96 Bulls...

but I am sure most have KG's cast >>> Dirk's cast

[97 bulls]

I wouldn't trade that team for anyone, all of the 96 Bulls...

but I am sure most have KG's cast >>> Dirk's cast
So what's the point? I don't believe the heat 2011 wouldve beat the lakers of 08. What more, im positive dirk at no point of his career could've done what KG did on that celtics team. Do you remember how far they dropped off when Garnett went down?

[-p.tiddy-]

So what's the point? I don't believe the heat 2011 wouldve beat the lakers of 08. What more, im positive dirk at no point of his career could've done what KG did on that celtics team. Do you remember how far they dropped off when Garnett went down?
Dirk would have EASILY won a ring with KG's cast

KG would NOT have won a ring against that Heat team...no way

KG can't lead a team by himself like Dirk can...

[-p.tiddy-]

Dirk should have two rings btw...something most KG lovers deny

[guy]

Dirk would have EASILY won a ring with KG's cast

KG would NOT have won a ring against that Heat team...no way

KG can't lead a team by himself like Dirk can...

KG/Chandler would've been a ridiculous defensive duo. Only thing that really compares is Sheed/Ben. It wouldn't surprise me at all if KG won a title with that team in his prime. He took a worse team to the WCF in 04 and arguably had tougher competition.

If Lebron wets his pants like he did, I could definitely see KG winning with that Mavs team.

[shortsoptional]

KG/Chandler would've been a ridiculous defensive duo. Only thing that really compares is Sheed/Ben. It wouldn't surprise me at all if KG won a title with that team in his prime. He took a worse team to the WCF in 04 and arguably had tougher competition.

If Lebron wets his pants like he did, I could definitely see KG winning with that Mavs team.


That's if KG/Chandler got past the OKC Thunder.

Cause KG damn sure isn't dropping 48 pts on 12-15 shooting. And he's for damn sure not making those shots in the 4th qt comeback in game 4 against OKC.

[Unstop]

dirk was out for a couple of games during the season and dallas lost a lot of games...

anyway, this dallas team was great and in basketball its all about team chemistry.
i dont know if garnett would ve fit with such a team.
i know dirk was really important for dallas on the offense end and his will to win a cship. he made his teammates believe in him and thats what u need to win...i guess.

anyway i dont care about ur fantasy teams.

[guy]

That's if KG/Chandler got past the OKC Thunder.

Cause KG damn sure isn't dropping 48 pts on 12-15 shooting. And he's for damn sure not making those shots in the 4th qt comeback in game 4 against OKC.

That argument is ridiculous and always is. Who is to say they would've needed that? Who is to say they're even down in game 4? You make it sound like the exact same situation occurs. They only beat them in 5 games anyway.

[rodman91]

For God sake, people bitching about possibility of Lebron winning with Wade & Bosh, yet compare Garnett's performance to Dirk's performances on championships.

Paul Pierce & Ray Allen...Two HOF'er. And Garnett had equal share with Pierce if not less.

[shortsoptional]

That argument is ridiculous and always is. Who is to say they would've needed that? Who is to say they're even down in game 4? You make it sound like the exact same situation occurs. They only beat them in 5 games anyway.


My point was illustrating that Dirk was doing things last year that KG is incapble of doing. And that specific team from last year, that you are talking about, needs that type of player. Garnett is not that player.

And in the playoffs, you're going to have close games no matter how good defensively or offensively you are. That's where Dirk's value far exceeds Garnett's.

Who's to say that Garnett and Chandler would have been a good match side by side? And are you talking about the Garnett in his prime or the Garnett of last year?

Doesn't really matter. Garnett needs someone like Peirce and Allen to score on the other end and create shots for him. Dirk needs someone who can make up for his lack of defensive skills. Depending on your team, either one can be better or more valuable.

[blablabla]

read the post above yours...I loved the whole team...I agree with MOST of your post

but it wasn't ...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_N53lnEL5iKI/S18Y1WQURZI/AAAAAAAAAA4/LIeKeO17dos/S740/celtics-big-3.jpg
reminds me of
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20L%20A%20Clippers/3e94b89e.jpg

[97 bulls]

My point was illustrating that Dirk was doing things last year that KG is incapble of doing. And that specific team from last year, that you are talking about, needs that type of player. Garnett is not that player.

And in the playoffs, you're going to have close games no matter how good defensively or offensively you are. That's where Dirk's value far exceeds Garnett's.

Who's to say that Garnett and Chandler would have been a good match side by side? And are you talking about the Garnett in his prime or the Garnett of last year?

Doesn't really matter. Garnett needs someone like Peirce and Allen to score on the other end and create shots for him. Dirk needs someone who can make up for his lack of defensive skills. Depending on your team, either one can be better or more valuable.
I definately agree with your last paragraph. And its true garnett wasn't the type of player to drop 40+ and 12. But a big game for him would be 28/19/5 assists/2 steal/4 blocks/ and just overall havoc on defense. And dirk could never be that kind of player. In fact, garnett would have the better chance of having a 40/12 type game than dirk the latter.

[Round Mound]

Dirk wasn`t better than Karl Malone :confusedshrug: (proove it without a ring)

He is not close to Duncan or Barkley

[guy]

My point was illustrating that Dirk was doing things last year that KG is incapble of doing. And that specific team from last year, that you are talking about, needs that type of player. Garnett is not that player.

And in the playoffs, you're going to have close games no matter how good defensively or offensively you are. That's where Dirk's value far exceeds Garnett's.

Who's to say that Garnett and Chandler would have been a good match side by side? And are you talking about the Garnett in his prime or the Garnett of last year?

Doesn't really matter. Garnett needs someone like Peirce and Allen to score on the other end and create shots for him. Dirk needs someone who can make up for his lack of defensive skills. Depending on your team, either one can be better or more valuable.

Okay, and my point was KG could do things that Dirk wasn't able to do so alot of those things he's incapable of doing that Dirk could do wouldn't have even be needed.

Why wouldn't KG and Chandler be able to work side by side? Defensive big men that don't need to dominate the ball or shoot the ball a ton of times fit onto pretty much any team. And really, that team was already pretty damn good defensively as they were. A Chandler/KG/Marion/Deshawn/Kidd lineup probably rivals the 04 Pistons defensively and with Terry, Barea, and Peja off the bench there probably a better offensive version of that Piston team. And yes, of course I'm talking about his prime. No way am I saying KG of last year could've done anything close to what Dirk.

I'm not necessarily saying that team would be better or worse with one or the other. They may have been worse, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have won. Too many times in this type topic people assume that if replacing someone makes the team worse, they don't win it all still. Not true. It could just mean that there dropoff isn't significant enough for them to have been beaten.

[GOBB]

Duncan
Malone
Dirk
KG
Barkley

watch round mound of barkleys nuts get all butt hurt. u mad?

[DMAVS41]

The Dirk over KG stuff is complete bullshit. I don't give a flying f*ck that Dirk won FMVP very recently, he was NEVER a better player than KG when both were in their primes. NEVER. And no one questioned it until Dirk won his FMVP this past year. Talk about living in the moment. It's not like KG doesn't have a ring, and although he didn't win FMVP, he played well in the playoffs that year with the Celtics in a significantly reduced role compared to his role in Minnesota. Prime vs prime KG was easily the better rebounder, was clearly a better passer/playmaker (Dirk is a solid passer, but KG actually could run an offense as a 7 footer!), and miles better at defense. Dirk is the better scorer, obviously, but KG's scoring is underrated to a retarded degree on ISH. Let's not act like Dirk is THAT far ahead of prime KG as a scorer, this isn't like comparing Michael Jordan and Corey Maggette, KG wasn't just a solid scorer, he could definitely score a lot too (9 straight years of 20+ PPG) , although Dirk is certainly a better scorer, the difference in their scoring is hardly enough for Dirk to overcome the massive advantage KG had in most (if not all) other aspects of basketball.

If only they played each other in the playoffs....

[guy]

If only they played each other in the playoffs....

So 3 games determine everything?

[DMAVS41]

So 3 games determine everything?

Of course not....but this notion that Dirk isn't in KG's league is absurd.

You don't do what Dirk did to KG in the playoffs (by the way Dirk was nowhere near the player he would become at the time) if you just aren't close to as good of a player.

This isn't hard. Dirk ranks anywhere from 2 to 6 currently. There is nothing wrong with putting him at 2...and there is nothing wrong with putting him at 6.

What is idiotic is to act like Dirk hasn't proven himself to be in that tier as a player. That ship has sailed. Dirk has now done everything. He's had one of the best careers ever and he's still going strong. There is nothing that KG, Malone, and Barkley did to separate themselves from Dirk.

People that watched them all play and actually have a little objectivity know this to be true.

[creepingdeath]

Of course not....but this notion that Dirk isn't in KG's league is absurd.

You don't do what Dirk did to KG in the playoffs (by the way Dirk was nowhere near the player he would become at the time) if you just aren't close to as good of a player.

The best thing about the utter destruction of KG by Dirk was the way that fake tough guy called Dirk out before the series... until he got his ass handed to himself. :roll:

[guy]

Of course not....but this notion that Dirk isn't in KG's league is absurd.

You don't do what Dirk did to KG in the playoffs (by the way Dirk was nowhere near the player he would become at the time) if you just aren't close to as good of a player.

This isn't hard. Dirk ranks anywhere from 2 to 6 currently. There is nothing wrong with putting him at 2...and there is nothing wrong with putting him at 6.

What is idiotic is to act like Dirk hasn't proven himself to be in that tier as a player. That ship has sailed. Dirk has now done everything. He's had one of the best careers ever and he's still going strong. There is nothing that KG, Malone, and Barkley did to separate themselves from Dirk.

People that watched them all play and actually have a little objectivity know this to be true.

Ok I agree.

[jlauber]

Of course not....but this notion that Dirk isn't in KG's league is absurd.

You don't do what Dirk did to KG in the playoffs (by the way Dirk was nowhere near the player he would become at the time) if you just aren't close to as good of a player.

This isn't hard. Dirk ranks anywhere from 2 to 6 currently. There is nothing wrong with putting him at 2...and there is nothing wrong with putting him at 6.

What is idiotic is to act like Dirk hasn't proven himself to be in that tier as a player. That ship has sailed. Dirk has now done everything. He's had one of the best careers ever and he's still going strong. There is nothing that KG, Malone, and Barkley did to separate themselves from Dirk.

People that watched them all play and actually have a little objectivity know this to be true.

Absolutely right on.

:applause:

Anyone who claims that Dirk has NO case for being 2-6 on this list are deluding themselves.

[DMAVS41]

The best thing about the utter destruction of KG by Dirk was the way that fake tough guy called Dirk out before the series... until he got his ass handed to himself. :roll:

Oh I know. Something about KG picking up Dirk 94 feet...LOL

But somehow Dirk just isn't in his league. Even though an out of prime Dirk destroyed an in prime KG in a playoff series. Sadly that is the kind of logic used here night in night out.

[97 bulls]

Oh I know. Something about KG picking up Dirk 94 feet...LOL

But somehow Dirk just isn't in his league. Even though an out of prime Dirk destroyed an in prime KG in a playoff series. Sadly that is the kind of logic used here night in night out.
Who has said kg and dirk aren't in the same league?

[DMAVS41]

Who has said kg and dirk aren't in the same league?

Quite a few people here actually...

[kentatm]

Round Mound

:roll:

never mind all your other horse shit, saying Dirk doesn't have a post game is all the info anyone needs to know you have zero basketball sense.

[bizil]

The one thing that Dirk has that makes up for other things is the fact that he's a true alpha dog scorer. And the manner he does it in is revolutionary. Many compare Dirk to McAdoo in terms of scoring skillset. But Dirk is doing it at 7'0 and with even more range than Mac showed. So he may not be the rebounder or defender that most of the great PF's are. But he's arguably the most dangerous scorer and a matchup nightmare.

Don't forget that Dirk played a lot of SF early in his career. That goes to show how talented and special Dirk is. U can say the same for many of the great SF's like Nique, Melo, Durant, English, King, Dantley, Aguirre etc. Their scoring prowess makes for not being great all around players. And by the way just because u aren't a great all around player doesn't mean u are a bad all around player. I always considered Dirk a very good rebounder. Getting great passing from a PF position is a bonus and not a premium. The same goes for damn near every other position except PG. These things need to be considered when judging ones greatness or effectiveness.

[MavAlbert]

Oh I know. Something about KG picking up Dirk 94 feet...LOL

But somehow Dirk just isn't in his league. Even though an out of prime Dirk DESTROYED an in prime KG in a playoff series. Sadly that is the kind of logic used here night in night out.


fixed

[winnnaz]

no....just no....:facepalm

[Unstop]

besides stats, dirk is a loyal player. his will to win gams and playing for his national team shows me that he is a guy u can rely on.

in todays league its difficult to build a team around one guy. and if u watch dallas and dirk together, u have to admit that its a perfect "relationship" :cheers: over more than 10 years.

And This makes me believe that only a few players could ve done such a trip with the dallas mavericks.
they had good seasons but also loosing in the first PO round was a shock. loosing teammates and friends over and over again...make his new teams work every single season.
if u think about it...(i guess) a lot of todays stars - superstars would ve left this team, just because of those things.

on the other hand dallas gave dirk a big opportunity to develop his game. maybe no other team would ve given him a chance to play a second season;)

dallas became a winning organisation. heading to the finals twice in a decade with lakers and spurs dominating the west.
thats what people forget about dirk and maybe underrate him. its not everything about stats, playing all year long for his mavs and then for his national team...tough time i guess.
EDIT: so what did we learn? character is also a factor for a team, im sure his teammates love him because hes not a fukin arrogant ****.

[Whoah10115]

Listen smelly people, it's inexcusable to suggest Dirkules should be ahead of Charles, Karl, or KG. And it's inexcusable to suggest he's any lower than 5. So, that means, he's definitively #5. The top 5 is pretty set, and honestly I have no problem with anyone ranking 1-4 however they want.


Elvin Hayes needs to be mentioned. He was not a stat padder, but he was a black hole. However, he was also a beast. I think McHale is probably higher, and I prefer him, so I pick him. Obviously, Bob Petit. Chris Webber needs his shout, as he still had 5years of prime and a few others seasons where he was robbed of being an All-Star, not to mention should have been an All-Pro.



Somehow, just now remembered the thread title, not to mention who posted it. I ended up posting a list of the best PF's. My apologies for being involved in this tho.

[stevieming]

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-Garnett
6-7 McHale or Dirk

1. duncan
2. dirk
3. garnett
4. barkley

I've omitted Mchale and Pettit because I have not watched enough of the two of them.

Duncan is without a doubt the best PF ever. I've placed Dirk above KG because any one who strapped the Mavs on their back to beat the champs, outduel the league scoring champ, punk the big three of bosh, wade and lebron along with his bad ass 4 quarter scoring, ice water in his vein freethrow shooting, is going above KG. Because as good as KG is in boarding, blocks, averaging double doubles, he can never be that man who loads the team on his back and take them all the way to the championship.

I love Charles but his accomplishments are even less then KG, stats, lack of defense....and no ring....

[stevieming]

Just realised I left out malone....:roll:

Because I don't rate Karl.....without stockton, no HOF career...