Is LeBron having the best season EVER?

[Doctor Rivers]

Yeah I said it. He's in his absolute prime. Best record in the league. People compare (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/20/2650927/lebron-james-or-lionel-messi-which.html) him to Messi.

PER - 32.4

[Glide2keva]

Yeah I said it. He's in his absolute prime. Best record in the league. People compare (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/20/2650927/lebron-james-or-lionel-messi-which.html) him to Messi.

PER - 32.4
Yeah, if you value a made up bullshit stat like PER, then yeah he is.

[pegasus]

He makes like 2-3 shots a game at less than 40% shooting, the rest is easy dunks and layups. We'll see how what he averages in the playoffs when the games slow down.

[Sarcastic]

50/25 >>> 32.4 Per

[bwink23]

Michael Jordan's 1990 season was more dominant.

[pegasus]

What team has the ability to slow games down against the Heat?

Chicago, Boston, SAS, and Dallas. And OKC can compete with them at the high speed game.

[Glide2keva]

What team has the ability to slow games down against the Heat?

I mean it's:

Heat



Thunder













Everyone Else
Stupid troll is stupid.

[Doctor Rivers]

Chicago, Boston, SAS, and Dallas. And OKC can compete with them at the high speed game.

Chicago - Injured Rose. Chalmers is only getting better.
Boston - LOL REALLY?
San Antonio - The Grizzlies set the blueprint to expose them.
Dallas - Won't get past OKC.

[Glide2keva]

so is typing 'stupid' twice.
I'm sorry, willfully ignorant stupid troll is willfully ignorant and stupid.

Better?

[Bigsmoke]

Shaq's 1999-2000 season wasnt too shabby.

1st in PPG
2nd in RPG
3rd in BPG
Lakers won 67 Games in the West

MVP/FMVP

and like 36ppg in the Finals.

[rodman91]

Many years of Jordan>this season's Lebron.

Lebron or C.Ronaldo btw :lol

[Glide2keva]

you're still typing words twice. so no, not really.
Well, that's about as much as I'm going to waste on you and this ridiculously stupid topic.

Citing PER as the only source to indicate he's having the best year ever is weak. You can't put up number because Wilt's numbers destroys lebrons. We don't even want to get into Jordan's numbers.

Like I said, stupid troll is stupid.

[Poodle]

he's-the-most-dominating-player-the-league-has-seen-since-prime-Shaq/MJ-imo....he's-really-stepped-his-game-up-this-year.

i-wish-more-superstars-chucked-less-and-played-smarter-higher%-shots-even-if-its-more-work...ie-Kobe...

settling-for-jumpers-or-3's-is-the-easy-way-out

[Bigsmoke]

No doubt, but I really think that the competition overall was lacking.

He wasnt playing in the East you know.

Yes, i do believe that the Pacers werent all that good but getting past the Blazer wasnt a walk through Drake's Adventure.

with that said, the Blazers choked too hard. :lol

[rodman91]

That's not fair you can't combine seasons!!

:lol

32.5 (54%) 8 rpg 8 apg 2.9 spg

[Sarcastic]

I heard Oscar Robertson once averaged a triple double for the year. Can someone verify?

[Odinn]

As for numbers and impact in regular seasons there are better seasons...

[rodman91]

I heard Oscar Robertson once averaged a triple double for the year. Can someone verify?

Ask to some paleontologist.That was in jurrassic age.

[Bigsmoke]

I heard Oscar Robertson once averaged a triple double for the year. Can someone verify?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdnBsCmST_E

from the man himself:bowdown:

[Dave3]

He played better in 2010 (season) in my opinion. Right now he's passing up shots/not aggressive offensively as he was in mid 2010. Back then he was both aggressive (20 FGA/10 FTA) but mixed it perfectly with spreading the ball around at the perfect times (9 apg). It felt that every decision he was making throughout the game was the right one, whether it was shoot, pass, cut, etc.

He started out in the first month looking even better than that. Recently though he's looked incredibly passive and unimpressive (by his standards). Maybe it's that he's allowing Wade to get back into a groove, but I swear he's averaging like 15 FGA/game this month or last 2/3 weeks. Not to mention his shot's been off for a few weeks, and it's become too integral as a part of his game for him to be at maximum effectiveness without his shot going.

Finally, he's looked bad in the clutch this year. In 2009 and 2010 he was significantly better in the 4ths and overtimes. And no I'm not buying into the "LeBron is unclutch" crap, but this year he has been. In 2009 and 2010 he would routinely take over games in the 4th quarters, carry his team and single handedly orchestrate comebacks. Even with sitting out major parts of 4th quarters because the Cavs would be up by 20 with 6 minutes left, he still led the league in 4th quarter points both years, and shot well. Right now he seems confused as to what his role is in the 4th quarter and the mental aspect is affecting his ability to play. He doesn't know whether to shoot or pass (especially when Wade is on the court) and ends up taking jumpers that look completely out of rhythm. He's way too good to play like that.

Are these LeBron's best stats ever (considering he's playing a career low in mpg since rookie season)? Yes. Am I seeing the best basketball LeBron has played? Definitely not. Playoffs 2009, 2010 regular season, and December/January this year he was better (though even when he was playing better this season, he still wasn't as clutch as the past).

[Glide2keva]

I heard Oscar Robertson once averaged a triple double for the year. Can someone verify?
If you have to ask :facepalm

[jlauber]

Chamberlain in his 66-67 season.

24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, 7.8 apg, .683 FG% on a team that went 68-13, with a Win Share mark of 21.9. In the playoffs he dominated Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond, en route to a 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, .579 ...on a team that romped to a world title.

Or maybe his 65-66 season, when he averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 (in a league that shot .433), with a Win Share mark of 21.4 on a team that had the best record in the league, at 55-25.

Or perhaps his 67-68 season, when he averaged 24.3 ppg (with games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points), 23.8 rpg, led the NBA in total assists with 8.6 apg, shot .595, had a Win Share of 20.4 (with a defensive Win Share of 10.7, which is the greatest "non-Russell" season in NBA history...on a team that had the best record in the league at 62-20.

Not a bad three year run...and none of those were even in his highest PER seasons, in which he had TWO of 31.8.

[Sarcastic]

If you have to ask :facepalm

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/bertstare/grand/38844883-bertstare_.gif

[arifgokcen]

:lol

32.5 (54%) 8 rpg 8 apg 2.9 spg

You cant recite those numbers because nba is much slower and right now defenses schemes are much better.Wilt season may be more dominant than any other player in history however we dont have enough data.However just because his per is the highest,we cant call the best season ever,but this season he is playing at an all time level.In the modern era we can easily put this season one of the best.This is not because of his per but his absolute dominance on both ends of the floor.We havent seen this kind of regular season dominance since MJ.Sorry but shaq wasn't that good defensively,beside his presence in the paint his help defense,rotations,pick and roll defense was average at best considering his physical tools he just didnt give enough effort.

Again please you cant compare 60s 70s with modern era.Game has been evolving defenses back then was horrible pace was incredible.

Even though per doesn't account for everything you do on the floor,if you take a closer look at it,you will see why it works.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

He makes like 2-3 shots a game at less than 40% shooting, the rest is easy dunks and layups. We'll see how what he averages in the playoffs when the games slow down.

After watching that Knicks-Heat game last night, I think this is true. He did hit a few jumpers towards the end of the game, but lots of his points came in transition along with Wade. They both had at least 4-5 fastbreak dunks/layups. It's amazing how good Miami's defense is.

[I.R.Beast]

Michael Jordan's 1990 season was more dominant.
sheeeyit!!..Jordan's rookie season was more dominant.

[miles berg]

Jordan was better every year he was a Bull. And the competition was better the first half of Jordans career.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Do people really think rookie Jordan > 2009-2012 LeBron?

[HurricaneKid]

OP is terrible.

The question should be is it LeBron's best year. And I prefer 08/09 over this year on that count.

[I.R.Beast]

Do people really think rookie Jordan > 2009-2012 LeBron?

yes.... we do..

[jrong]

Yeah I said it. He's in his absolute prime. Best record in the league. People compare (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/20/2650927/lebron-james-or-lionel-messi-which.html) him to Messi.

PER - 32.4

No. He was before Wade got back in January, and he's been maintaining his efficiency now. But, since Wade's return, Wade has been just as productive and efficient or even more so, and more importantly, the Heat have reverted to being a co-production as opposed to "LeBron's team". That completely changes the psychology of how you have to look at his season, the MVP race etc-- right now, Durant deserves MVP.

[Doctor Rivers]

OP is terrible.

The question should be is it LeBron's best year. And I prefer 08/09 over this year on that count.

you're not one to judge

[Bigsmoke]

No. He was before Wade got back in January, and he's been maintaining his efficiency now. But, since Wade's return, Wade has been just as productive and efficient or even more so, and more importantly, the Heat have reverted to being a co-production as opposed to "LeBron's team". That completely changes the psychology of how you have to look at his season, the MVP race etc-- right now, Durant deserves MVP.

you can say the same for Westbrook. He is shooting very efficiently and has had a number of games where he overshadowed Durant's play

[Indian guy]

This wouldn't even make his Top 5 seasons. People have no idea how misleading that stat line is. LeBron is so far away from the playmaker he once was, the notion of him being the league's best player would have been laughable had he still been a Cavalier. He can get away with it on a loaded team like Miami, but even then, I don't know how anyone can miss how limited his game is. He can't drive, is having his worst shooting season since '08, and basically plays a very passive brand of basketball, where he'll ONLY shoot with a cushion on the lead. If Miami wasn't so good at forcing turnovers and getting out on the break, LeBron would likely be having his 2nd worst season statistically.

[I.R.Beast]

No. He was before Wade got back in January, and he's been maintaining his efficiency now. But, since Wade's return, Wade has been just as productive and efficient or even more so, and more importantly, the Heat have reverted to being a co-production as opposed to "LeBron's team". That completely changes the psychology of how you have to look at his season, the MVP race etc-- right now, Durant deserves MVP.
James play has regressed since wade's return. Wade has been more domiantn since healing up..and he's playing about 6 less minutes a game than bronny.

[pegasus]

Chicago - Injured Rose. Chalmers is only getting better.
Boston - LOL REALLY?
San Antonio - The Grizzlies set the blueprint to expose them.
Dallas - Won't get past OKC.

I was not listing the teams that I think can/will take the Heat out. Just the teams that can slow the games down in the playoffs and hurt Lebron's numbers.

It could be a 4-game sweep, but Lebron wouldn't have the stats he averages now. Having said that, I do think each of those teams would have a shot against the Heat, especially the Bulls and the OKC, but that's another topic.

[Indian guy]

Do people really think rookie Jordan > 2009-2012 LeBron?

Maybe not rookie MJ, but every other Bulls-version of Jordan is better than current LeBron.

[HurricaneKid]

you're not one to judge

Sure I am. I just did.

[2010splash]

Best season ever! :roll: :oldlol:

Oh my God, this is too much. Wow, his "PER" is 6 tenths of a point higher than the next highest "PER" and it means he's having the best season ever.

Jordan averages 35/6/6/3.2/1.6 on 54% shooting and wins DPOY in the same year, then averages 33/8/8/2.9 on 54% shooting the next year and somehow LeBron's 28/8/7 is better?

Jordan has years when he wins the scoring title, regular season MVP and Finals MVP, averages 31/11 in the finals, 40+ ppg in the finals and LeBron, who has the highest regular season "PER" by merely a few tenths of a point and has never accomplished anything noteworthy when it truly matters, is having the best season ever? :facepalm

[Poodle]

No. He was before Wade got back in January, and he's been maintaining his efficiency now. But, since Wade's return, Wade has been just as productive and efficient or even more so, and more importantly, the Heat have reverted to being a co-production as opposed to "LeBron's team". That completely changes the psychology of how you have to look at his season, the MVP race etc-- right now, Durant deserves MVP.


Wade-doesn't-do-nearly-as-much-all-around-as-Lebron...in-fact-nobody-in-the-league-does...Wade-mostly-is-a-scorer.

the-Cav's-comparisons-especially-with-stats-aren't-very-fair-either-since-he-didn't-have-nearly-the-threats-around-him-as-he-does-with-Miami-where-he-has-adapted-his-game-to-fit-and-sacrificed-every-stat-based-on-volume.

the-Lebron-i've-watched-this-year-is-much-smarter-and-plays-to-win-at-the-sacrifice-of-his-numbers..he's-easily-a-better,smarter-lebron...there-are-so-many-moments-where-he-could-get-his-but-he-tries-to-keep-his-teammates-involved...even-against-the-Kings-there-was-a-moment-he-was-matched-up-against-IsaiahThomas-but-kicked-it-for-an-open-teammate-J...he-just-doesn't-seem-to-care-much-about-his-stats-other-than-his-fieldgoal%-from-what-i've-seen.

i-dont-see-how-anybody-that-has-regularly-watched-him-this-year-can-say-its-not-his-best-year...or-put-anyone-above-him....nobody-gets-easier-higher%-buckets-than-Lebron-and-its-not-because-they're-gimme's-its-because-he's-that-dominant-and-smarter-than-previous-years.

in-a-league-where-star-players-love-to-make-shots-much-harder-on-themselves-its-funny-how-people-fault-lebron-for-taking-much-better-shots-and-cutting-out-3's-for-the-most-part...that-helps-your-team-way-more-than-any-streaky-jump-shooting-chucker-from-game2game.

[Rnbizzle]

yes.... we do..
MJ stans are the worst of all. :facepalm

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

The only thing Jordan was better at than LeBron is accepting oncoming baldness.

[Dave3]

Wade-doesn't-do-nearly-as-much-all-around-as-Lebron...in-fact-nobody-in-the-league-does...Wade-mostly-is-a-scorer.

the-Cav's-comparisons-especially-with-stats-aren't-very-fair-either-since-he-didn't-have-nearly-the-threats-around-him-as-he-does-with-Miami-where-he-has-adapted-his-game-to-fit-and-sacrificed-every-stat-based-on-volume.

the-Lebron-i've-watched-this-year-is-much-smarter-and-plays-to-win-at-the-sacrifice-of-his-numbers..he's-easily-a-better,smarter-lebron...there-are-so-many-moments-where-he-could-get-his-but-he-tries-to-keep-his-teammates-involved...even-against-the-Kings-there-was-a-moment-he-was-matched-up-against-IsaiahThomas-but-kicked-it-for-an-open-teammate-J...he-just-doesn't-seem-to-care-much-about-his-stats-other-than-his-fieldgoal%-from-what-i've-seen.

i-dont-see-how-anybody-that-has-regularly-watched-him-this-year-can-say-its-not-his-best-year...or-put-anyone-above-him....nobody-gets-easier-higher%-buckets-than-Lebron-and-its-not-because-they're-gimme's-its-because-he's-that-dominant-and-smarter-than-previous-years.

in-a-league-where-star-players-love-to-make-shots-much-harder-on-themselves-its-funny-how-people-fault-lebron-for-taking-much-better-shots-and-cutting-out-3's-for-the-most-part...that-helps-your-team-way-more-than-any-streaky-jump-shooting-chucker-from-game2game.Is your space bar broken? It's slightly harder to read your posts like this.

[Poodle]

Is your space bar broken? It's slightly harder to read your posts like this.

yea-spacebar-is-broken...i'd-use-periods-but-they-screw-up-the.text.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This wouldn't even make his Top 5 seasons. People have no idea how misleading that stat line is. LeBron is so far away from the playmaker he once was, the notion of him being the league's best player would have been laughable had he still been a Cavalier. He can get away with it on a loaded team like Miami, but even then, I don't know how anyone can miss how limited his game is. He can't drive, is having his worst shooting season since '08, and basically plays a very passive brand of basketball, where he'll ONLY shoot with a cushion on the lead. If Miami wasn't so good at forcing turnovers and getting out on the break, LeBron would likely be having his 2nd worst season statistically.

Wow, harsh words coming from a huge Lebron fan. I do wonder how much the Heat's transition game helps pad Lebron's numbers, as does the defensive attention Wade/Bosh draw.

[jrong]

Wade-doesn't-do-nearly-as-much-all-around-as-Lebron...in-fact-nobody-in-the-league-does...Wade-mostly-is-a-scorer

Actually, he does. He just plays fewer minutes. Wade has arguably been the Heat's best player since he returned from the knee. On a per-minute basis, you can throw the "arguably" out of that sentence. Wade's 5 assists and 4 rebounds would rise to 6 assists and 5 rebounds if he was getting the extra minutes that LeBron does. And if he got half a quarter to a quarter per game to play without any other Big 3 members on the floor like James does, they'd rise higher than that.

And defensively, dear God. Wade's having a career shotblocking year on career low minutes. And for people who think blocks and steals are a sign of bad defense, I can't help you, but watch the Heat night-in, and night-out and you will see he is every bit the elite force of nature that James is on that side of the ball.

[Dave3]

Wow, harsh words coming from a huge Lebron fan. I do wonder how much the Heat's transition game helps pad Lebron's numbers, as does the defensive attention Wade/Bosh draw.
It may pad his efficiency a bit, but being on the Heat hurts his points and assist more. He's averaging one of his lowest apgs and he's taking 16 shots/game this month while playing 35 mpg because of how many blowouts they're in. That's definitely better in the long run, but it's certainly not padding his stats.

[Poodle]

its-laughable-to-say-he's-nowhere-the-playmaker-he-was-with-the-Cav's-when-he's-the-basis-of-the-Heats-playmaking-most-games(not-so-much-last-night)...he's-a-much-better-point-forward...in-fact-he's-the-basis-of-most-of-their-transition-buckets-because-of-his-defense-and-running-those-breaks-either-passing/finishing.

lebron-in-Cleveland-got-every-shot-possible-so-obviously-volume-is-smaller-with-Miami-but-in-terms-of-playing-winning-smart-basketball-lebron-has-adjusted-very-well-to-the-Heats-talents...don't-forget-lebron-in-Cle-had-a-lot-of-games-where-he-chucked-and-missed-and-he-wasn't-nearly-as-dominant-in-the-paint-as-he-is-now...partly-because-he-settled-for-jumpers/3's-more.

i-just-can't-see-how-people-are-pretending-to-downplay-lebrons-play-this-year:facepalm

[Poodle]

Actually, he does. He just plays fewer minutes. Wade has arguably been the Heat's best player since he returned from the knee. On a per-minute basis, you can throw the "arguably" out of that sentence. Wade's 5 assists and 4 rebounds would rise to 6 assists and 5 rebounds if he was getting the extra minutes that LeBron does. And if he got half a quarter to a quarter per game to play without any other Big 3 members on the floor like James does, they'd rise higher than that.

And defensively, dear God. Wade's having a career shotblocking year on career low minutes. And for people who think blocks and steals are a sign of bad defense, I can't help you, but watch the Heat night-in, and night-out and you will see he is every bit the elite force of nature that James is on that side of the ball.


sorry-thats-just-false...and-i'm-not-saying-Wade-can't-do-other-things-than-score-but-to-say-he's-betterr-at-defense-or-running-brreaks-passing-or-even-rebounding-than-lebron-is-ludicrous.

even-before-Wade-got-hurt-he-was-putting-up-much-less-all-around-numbers-and-its-a-rather-small-sample-size-of-games-since-Wades-been-back.

i've-got-no-problem-with-Wade..he's-a-great-player-but-i'm-just-not-seeing-what-you're-saying-with-him-being-better-or-even-close-to-lebron-all-around

lebron-was-running-that-team-like-Magic-when-Wade-was-hurt-without-much-of-a-dropoff.

and-for-what-its-worth-i-don't-like-lebron-as-a-person-i-think-he's-one-of-the-biggest-diva-brats-to-ever-play-in-the-league-but-i-can't-deny-what-i've-seen.

[DaaaaBULLS]

The only thing Jordan was better at than LeBron is accepting oncoming baldness.

You forgot about winning rings
http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/michael_jordan_trophy_rings2.jpg

[pegasus]

It may pad his efficiency a bit, but being on the Heat hurts his points and assist more. He's averaging one of his lowest apgs and he's taking 16 shots/game this month while playing 35 mpg because of how many blowouts they're in. That's definitely better in the long run, but it's certainly not padding his stats.

How does playing on the Heats hurt his assists? Almost every time he kicks it out to an open shooter (Bosh, Chalmers, Miller, etc.) they knock it down at a ridiculous rate. And he and Wade help each other get easy buckets and assists all the time.

He could probably score more points on another team by taking more shots, but his FG% would come down quite a bit, because he cannot shoot, and he cannot drive like he used to.

[jrong]

sorry-thats-just-false...and-i'm-not-saying-Wade-can't-do-other-things-than-score-but-to-say-he's-betterr-at-defense-or-running-brreaks-passing-or-even-rebounding-than-lebron-is-ludicrous.

even-before-Wade-got-hurt-he-was-putting-up-much-less-all-around-numbers-and-its-a-rather-small-sample-size-of-games-since-Wades-been-back.

i've-got-no-problem-with-Wade..he's-a-great-player-but-i'm-just-not-seeing-what-you're-saying-with-him-being-better-or-even-close-to-lebron-all-around

lebron-was-running-that-team-like-Magic-when-Wade-was-hurt-without-much-of-a-dropoff.

February (13 games, i.e. about when Wade returned)

James: 35.6 mins 0.540 FG% 0.828 FT% 7.8 rebs 6.5 asts 1.7 stls 0.7 bpg 24.6 pts

Wade: 30.9 mins 0.557 FG% 0.847 FT% 4.7 rebs 4.2 asts 1.2 stls 1.3 bpg 24.5 pts

I never said Wade was better than James. I said per-minute, he's been better since he got back-- not in all categories, but overall. And as I also said, the timing of those minutes and substitution patterns during those minutes provide James with even more advantage over Wade in being able to rack up stats.

But, for you to try to maintain that a healthy Wade is a clear #2 to LeBron, sorry-- it just ain't true. It's not true according to the numbers, and it's not true if you watch the games.

[Meticode]

Is LeBron having the best season EVER?
No.

[LeFraud James]

Yeah I said it. He's in his absolute prime. Best record in the league. People compare (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/20/2650927/lebron-james-or-lionel-messi-which.html) him to Messi.

PER - 32.4

I can't agree with the Messi comparisons.

It's true that both can't win with sub-par teams(Cavaliers/Argentina).

The difference between them is that Messi can actually get it done when he's surrounded by great talent(Barca).

[pegasus]

No.

Why do you have my username in that quote? I didn't ask the question. I know that this is not even his best season, or this season's best in the league, let alone be the best ever.

[Poodle]

February (13 games, i.e. about when Wade returned)

James: 35.6 mins 0.540 FG% 0.828 FT% 7.8 rebs 6.5 asts 1.7 stls 0.7 bpg 24.6 pts

Wade: 30.9 mins 0.557 FG% 0.847 FT% 4.7 rebs 4.2 asts 1.2 stls 1.3 bpg 24.5 pts

I never said Wade was better than James. I said per-minute, he's been better since he got back-- not in all categories, but overall. And as I also said, the timing of those minutes and substitution patterns during those minutes provide James with even more advantage over Wade in being able to rack up stats.

But, for you to try to maintain that a healthy Wade is a clear #2 to LeBron, sorry-- it just ain't true. It's not true according to the numbers, and it's not true if you watch the games.

everything-i've-said-has-been-based-on-observation-tbh,i-don't-even-look-at-stats-until-people-post-them-here....well-other-than-what-i-read-regarding-my-fantasy-team-related-stuff.

Wade-is-a-deceptively-good-all-around-player-i'll-give-you-that-but-to-me-he's-always-more-flashes-of-it-than-regularity....like-he'll-have-a-great-block-on-someone-driving-for-a-layup,or-follow-the-shot-for-a-great-putback-dunk,or-even-steal-for-a-ezbucket...but-to-me-Lebron-is-consistently-a-more-profound-force-in-all-of-those-aspects-where-it-doesn't-always-make-the-statline...i-won't-argue-shot-blocking-since-its-hard-for-me-to-judge-that-with-it-being-fewer-and-far-between-once-or-twice-a-game-moments-and-neither-are-consistent-true-shotblockers-either-constantly-changing-shots-more-than-sneaking-up-on-people-or-moments-with-their-athleticism.

in-general-i-just-think-the-combination-of-lebrons-size-and-athleticism-defensively-and-offensively-trumps-what-Wade-does-and-is-more-consistent-in-most-aspects...and-i-think-lebron-defers-to-Wade-often-in-terms-of-iso-scoring.

[scm5]

If you're just going by PER, then yes, Lebron is having the best season ever.

35/6/6 on 53.5% with 3.2spg 1.6bpg 3.1 TO/gm
32.5/8/8 on 53.8% with 2.9spg .8bpg 3.6 TO/gm
33.6/7/6 on 52.6% with 2.8spg and .7bpg 3.0 TO/gm
31.5/6/6 on 53.9% with 2.7spg and 1.0bpg 2.5TO/gm

I would take any of these seasons over Lebron's current season. These seasons also came in consecutive seasons by Jordan.

27.4/8/7 on 54.7% and 1.8spg .7bpg 3.7 TO/gm pales in comparison.

[rodman91]

Kids are too much into individual stats. Jordan had better individual stats for many seasons but also he was better when he didn't had better stats.

Lebron is mental midget so far. Versatile but non-lock down defender. He still has quite poor post game.He is having more difficult time to pass his defender compared to Cavs days.

Also it looks like he'll end up with similar stats to last year since Wade's return.

About Messi, he is great at big stage. That alone, enough to say Messi > Lebron.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron is mental midget so far. Versatile but non-lock down defender. He still has quite poor post game.He is having more difficult time to pass his defender compared to Cavs days.


He absolutely can lock down players.

Poor Post game? #1 post-up % in the NBA. Try again.

The book on Miami is to pack in the D so when Wade and LBJ drive there isn't room. Thats why they are the #1 3pt% in the NBA. Its not about getting by his guy. Its about the fact that 3 defenders are waiting. Teams can't stop the drive so they give the open 3. With Miller shooting .516 and Chalmers at .456 thats a pretty great play.

[Heavincent]

Not even close.

[ThatsGame]

People bringing up his stats are forgetting that he has been sitting through 4th qtrs since the Heat have been winning by double digits in all their past games.

thats why PER is useful here.

[FKAri]

People argue that Messi is on the path to GOAT status. I dont think people argue that about Lebron (they mightve like 5 yrs ago).

Messi is on another level from Lebron. And I love both these guys and think Lebron has a legit shot at top 10 all time.

[Lebron23]

2008, 2009 and 2010 LeBron >>> Current LeBron. I expect LeBron to put up much better numbers at the 2nd half of the season.

[Lebron23]

People bringing up his stats are forgetting that he has been sitting through 4th qtrs since the Heat have been winning by double digits in all their past games.

thats why PER is useful here.


He's no longer going to sit in the 4th quarter because the Heat have a very tough schedule in their next 10 games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain in his 66-67 season.*

24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, 7.8 apg, .683 FG% on a team that went 68-13, with a Win Share mark of 21.9. In the playoffs he dominated Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond, en route to a 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, .579 ...on a team that romped to a world title.

Or maybe his 65-66 season, when he averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 (in a league that shot .433), with a Win Share mark of 21.4 on a team that had the best record in the league, at 55-25.

Or perhaps his 67-68 season, when he averaged 24.3 ppg (with games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 points), 23.8 rpg, led the NBA in total assists with 8.6 apg, shot .595, had a Win Share of 20.4 (with a defensive Win Share of 10.7, which is the greatest "non-Russell" season in NBA history...on a team that had the best record in the league at 62-20.

Not a bad three year run...and none of those were even in his highest PER seasons, in which he had TWO of 31.8.
* Weak Era

[blablabla]

he still can't make jumpers consistently zone defense is going to kill the heat once again

[Kblaze8855]

No. Id say hes...at best...having the 4th best season since 99.

[chazzy]

This isn't even the 2nd best Lebron season, let alone best season ever

[Rnbizzle]

No. Id say hes...at best...having the 4th best season since 99.
Wanna share who the other seasons belong to?

[DrunkenDave]

If you're just going by PER, then yes, Lebron is having the best season ever.

35/6/6 on 53.5% with 3.2spg 1.6bpg 3.1 TO/gm
32.5/8/8 on 53.8% with 2.9spg .8bpg 3.6 TO/gm
33.6/7/6 on 52.6% with 2.8spg and .7bpg 3.0 TO/gm
31.5/6/6 on 53.9% with 2.7spg and 1.0bpg 2.5TO/gm

I would take any of these seasons over Lebron's current season. These seasons also came in consecutive seasons by Jordan.

27.4/8/7 on 54.7% and 1.8spg .7bpg 3.7 TO/gm pales in comparison.

I'm not 100% sure if the pace was exactly the same. Anyway, even though I like Lebrons game, I still dont think he can maintain these numbers. Would be a TOP5 regular season of all time though, no doubt.

[Sarcastic]

People bringing up his stats are forgetting that he has been sitting through 4th qtrs since the Heat have been winning by double digits in all their past games.

thats why PER is useful here.

Everything you say is a complete fabrication of the truth. He is playing 36.7 minutes per game. If he sat in the 4th, that would mean he would have to play the first 3 without rest.

[unbreakable]

lebron has about 20 pts a game from dunks/layups.. the rest from freethrows.

:sleeping

[bwink23]

]You cant recite those numbers because nba is much slower and right now defenses schemes are much better.[/B]Wilt season may be more dominant than any other player in history however we dont have enough data.However just because his per is the highest,we cant call the best season ever,but this season he is playing at an all time level.In the modern era we can easily put this season one of the best.This is not because of his per but his absolute dominance on both ends of the floor.We havent seen this kind of regular season dominance since MJ.Sorry but shaq wasn't that good defensively,beside his presence in the paint his help defense,rotations,pick and roll defense was average at best considering his physical tools he just didnt give enough effort.

Again please you cant compare 60s 70s with modern era.Game has been evolving defenses back then was horrible pace was incredible.

Even though per doesn't account for everything you do on the floor,if you take a closer look at it,you will see why it works.


WHAT>>EVER.......Game pace Chicago Bulls 1989 = 97.0
Game pace Miami Heat 2012 = 92.9

The difference is 4 possessions a game. BIG DEAL!!!!

Jordan Usage Rate in 1989 = 32.1%, 40.2 minutes a game.
Lebron Usage Rate in 2012 = 32.0%, 36.7 minutes a game.

Miami Heat margin of victory = 9.35
Bulls margin of victory = 1.44.......Heat doing more damage in a shorter amount of time...

Chicago Bulls FG% = 48.0% minus Jordan.
Miami Heat FG% = 47.1% minus Lebron.

Chicago Bulls ppg = 106.4
Miami Heat ppg = 103.7.......2.7 points a game.....BIG DEAL!!!


Jordan = 8.0 rebs and 8.0 assists in 1989. (82 games)
Lebron = 8.1 rebs. and 6.8 assists in 2012 in (only 33 games)


Lebron = 1 assist per 13.7 possessions
Jordan = 1 assist per 12.1 possessions...ADV. Jordan

Lebron = 1 reb per 11.5 possessions
Jordan = 1 reb per 12.1 possessions....ADV. Lebron

Let's not pretend that game pace was so retarded that the seasons are not comparable>....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[d21221hk]

No, i've seen better.

[ThatsGame]

Everything you say is a complete fabrication of the truth. He is playing 36.7 minutes per game. If he sat in the 4th, that would mean he would have to play the first 3 without rest.

Did you even do so much as LOOK at the minutes played these past 8 or so games that his stats have been dropping? He isn't playing 36.7 min a game. He's playing 30-33.

[Sarcastic]

Did you even do so much as LOOK at the minutes played these past 8 or so games that his stats have been dropping? He isn't playing 36.7 min a game. He's playing 30-33.

So he must have been averaging what, 40 mpg before that?

[Poodle]

lebron has about 20 pts a game from dunks/layups.. the rest from freethrows.

:sleeping


well-everyone-should-do-that-then-including-other-Heat-players-since-it-so-ez-right?:confusedshrug:

[unbreakable]

well-everyone-should-do-that-then-including-other-Heat-players-since-it-so-ez-right?:confusedshrug:

no because no one else has his insane athleticism/game .

i can admit lebron is in the middle of a fantastic season, but the OP is alluding "best of all time" its not possible. :violin:

[madmax]

WHAT>>EVER.......Game pace Chicago Bulls 1989 = 97.0
Game pace Miami Heat 2012 = 92.9

The difference is 4 possessions a game. BIG DEAL!!!!

Jordan Usage Rate in 1989 = 32.1%, 40.2 minutes a game.
Lebron Usage Rate in 2012 = 32.0%, 36.7 minutes a game.

Miami Heat margin of victory = 9.35
Bulls margin of victory = 1.44.......Heat doing more damage in a shorter amount of time...

Chicago Bulls FG% = 48.0% minus Jordan.
Miami Heat FG% = 47.1% minus Lebron.

Chicago Bulls ppg = 106.4
Miami Heat ppg = 103.7.......2.7 points a game.....BIG DEAL!!!


Jordan = 8.0 rebs and 8.0 assists in 1989. (82 games)
Lebron = 8.1 rebs. and 6.8 assists in 2012 in (only 33 games)


Lebron = 1 assist per 13.7 possessions
Jordan = 1 assist per 12.1 possessions...ADV. Jordan

Lebron = 1 reb per 11.5 possessions
Jordan = 1 reb per 12.1 possessions....ADV. Lebron

Let's not pretend that game pace was so retarded that the seasons are not comparable>....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

the pace was still much higher in the 80's and while both Lebron's and MJ's usage rates are similar, LBJ plays less minutes per game, directly hurting his numbers in the process. Sorry, but PER reflects that both of these seasons are very close statistically, but Lebron's is still better:cheers: Time to accept it and stop canonizing past players

[bwink23]

the pace was still much higher in the 80's and while both Lebron's and MJ's usage rates are similar, LBJ plays less minutes per game, directly hurting his numbers in the process. Sorry, but PER reflects that both of these seasons are very close statistically, but Lebron's is still better:cheers: Time to accept it and stop canonizing past players


:facepalm ......per possession, Jordan is averaging more assists and Lebron is barely averaging more rebounds. Jordan was on a tard team and Lebron is on a great team with other star players to ease the pressure. Jordan averaged 32 and Lebron is at 27.7......Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.

The point of my post wasn't about which on was better.....it was about how game pace didn't apply to Jordan's Bulls as ridiculous as some other teams.

Jordan 1989 =82 games.
Lebron 2012 = 33 games........NO COMPARSION

Jordan 32ppg vs. Lebron 27.7ppg = NO COMPARISON..

Sorry but Jordan's 1989 season>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron right now

[jrong]

the pace was still much higher in the 80's and while both Lebron's and MJ's usage rates are similar, LBJ plays less minutes per game, directly hurting his numbers in the process. Sorry, but PER reflects that both of these seasons are very close statistically, but Lebron's is still better:cheers: Time to accept it and stop canonizing past players

So what conclusions should we draw from the fact that now that Wade is healthy, he's been just as good as James?

[SwooshReturns]

Wanna share who the other seasons belong to?
Shaq 2000
Shaq 2001
Iverson 2001
Bryant 2001
Shaq 2002
Duncan 2003
Bryant 2003
McGrady 2003
Garnett 2004
Bryant 2006
Wade 2006
LeBron 2006
Bryant 2007
Wade 2007 (pre-injury)
Bryant 2008
Paul 2008
Wade 2009
LeBron 2009
LeBron 2010

All arguably as good or better

[madmax]

:facepalm ......per possession, Jordan is averaging more assists and Lebron is barely averaging more rebounds. Jordan was on a tard team and Lebron is on a great team with other star players to ease the pressure. Jordan averaged 32 and Lebron is at 27.7......Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.

The point of my post wasn't about which on was better.....it was about how game pace didn't apply to Jordan's Bulls as ridiculous as some other teams.

Jordan 1989 =82 games.
Lebron 2012 = 33 games........NO COMPARSION

Jordan 32ppg vs. Lebron 27.7ppg = NO COMPARISON..

Sorry but Jordan's 1989 season>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron right now

sorry, you can repeat this as many times as you want, but it won't become true...
Am I questioning that Lebon is better scorer than Jordan?:rolleyes: No, I am talking about their PER and all-arround play for their respective teams. I guess you are aware that 80's wing players in general were shooting much better than today's ones. Do you know the reason for that? It's because they were NOT ABUSING THREE POINT LINE BY TAKING DUMB/UNNECESSAY shots from there. And now fast-forward to 2012 and what do we see in Lebron's game? A DRASTICALLY REDUCED AMOUNT OF DUMB/UNNECESSARY three pointers as opposed to his previous seasons. No wonder his FG% and PER look so good now...

[madmax]

So what conclusions should we draw from the fact that now that Wade is healthy, he's been just as good as James?

Wade is the 2nd best player in the league, so him being close to Lebron's abilities and all-arround play is nothing out of ordinary.:cheers: I actually like the dude and wish he stayed healthy for longer periods of time, so you are barking at the wrong tree here

[SwooshReturns]

A DRASTICALLY REDUCED AMOUNT OF DUMB/UNNECESSARY three pointers as opposed to his previous seasons. No wonder his FG% and PER look so good now...
Smart basketball, though. 3 pointers raise your point total quicker when you're hitting them, but when you're not ... they drastically reduce your effeciency.

[StateOfMind12]

This isn't even LeBron's best season ever so how can this be the best season ever? :confusedshrug:

I'd take '09 and '10 LeBron over current LeBron any day of the week.

[Poodle]

Smart basketball, though. 3 pointers raise your point total quicker when you're hitting them, but when you're not ... they drastically reduce your effeciency.


yeah-jumpers,including-3's-are-lazy-persons-shots...like-shortcuts-for-ez-points...its-easy-to-chuck...expends-alot-less-energy-than-posting-or-driving...theres-a-reason-why-alot-of-players-tend-to-settle-for-J's-when-they-get-older...

i-give-lebron-and-wade-a-lot-of-credit-for-cutting-down-on-them-and-forcing-higher%-shots-to-win.

[jrong]

Wade is the 2nd best player in the league, so him being close to Lebron's abilities and all-arround play is nothing out of ordinary.:cheers: I actually like the dude and wish he stayed healthy for longer periods of time, so you are barking at the wrong tree here

I'm just saying Jordan never had a teammate like that.

[Disaprine]

lol per, lebron is having his best season though.

[tmacattack33]

Lebron is beasting it up. He's not playing all that different and better from his previous years (which is a compliment to his previous yrs, not an insult to his current year), but he's made two easy and simple adjustments 1. shooting less threes 2. posting up more.

[Lebron23]

I expect LeBron to have a much better 2nd half of the season.

[Indian guy]

Front page story on ESPN right now :facepalm. I feel like throwing up.

[Micku]

Maybe. I dunno. It's only been 33 games. I think it's LBJ best season so far. He doesn't really have a weakness now.

Since you can't double LBJ with Wade and Bosh in the lineup, and with his improve shooting and ability to finish, he destroys the other team. But the best of the 80s teams were similar.

[niko]

No, he's not. You could argue it's not even his own best season. Do people get what that means? THE BEST SEASON EVER, that means every player, every year, this one is the one that stands out. Why would that be?

Stupid.

[Dave3]

Did you not see him in Utah?!?! 8/9 17 pts
That was a glimpse of 2008-2010 LeBron. If that player came back with this current play style, then we can have this argument. The fact that his best quarter of the year arguably was only reminiscent of previous years proves how this should never be a discussion.

[tmacattack33]

That was a glimpse of 2008-2010 LeBron. If that player came back with this current play style, then we can have this argument. The fact that his best quarter of the year arguably was only reminiscent of previous years proves how this should never be a discussion.



So then you think Lebron in 2008-2010 was the GOAT?

[Dave3]

So then you think Lebron in 2008-2010 was the GOAT?
I can't comment on GOAT because I've watched since 2001. I can say that he was better than 2003 Duncan, but still worse than 2001 Shaq whom I had previously considered the best prime. I was only 13 or 14 back then, but I definitely could tell that Shaq was ridiculously unstoppable. Hated him with a passion, called him "unskilled, fat, big, bully" all the names I could think of because I hate his style of just pushing people around. 10 years later, I appreciate what he did a lot more, and no question have him as the best player I've seen at any point in time. I'd put 2009 and 2010 LeBron's seasons below his, around the same spot as Duncan's 2001-2003 years and Kobe's 2006-2008 years. I do have LeBron's seasons above Duncan/Kobe's though by a small margin.

Edit: Oh crap, I see now where I made the mistake. By "this argument" I meant LeBron's best season, not GOAT season. The whole GOAT thing isn't even in my mind because I've watched maybe 15% of the NBA's existence.

[ballinhun8]

There was once this guy who averaged 50 and 20.

There was once a guy who averaged a triple double.


But no no, this James season with his 29 ppg is much much better.

[lilgodfather1]

There was once this guy who averaged 50 and 20.

There was once a guy who averaged a triple double.


But no no, this James season with his 29 ppg is much much better.
LeBron's stats would be around 40/11/11 if he played when those players played. You think he is unstopable in the open court? Imagine if he was playing with players far less athletic than him like Wilt and Oscar got to do.

[ballinhun8]

LeBron's stats would be around 40/11/11 if he played when those players played. You think he is unstopable in the open court? Imagine if he was playing with players far less athletic than him like Wilt and Oscar got to do.




Yea and also imagine him playing against more aggressive defenses and a league that wasn't tailored for perimeter oriented swingmen. Remember, a 38 yr old MJ avgd 25 ppg on fluid filled knees in this new era.

[lilgodfather1]

Yea and also imagine him playing against more aggressive defenses and a league that wasn't tailored for perimeter oriented swingmen. Remember, a 38 yr old MJ avgd 25 ppg on fluid filled knees in this new era.
Defense is 100000000000000000x better now than it was even in the late 80's. Zone's changed the league for the better. In the past it was man to man, what's a double team? They didn't use them, 99% of MJ's "clutch" shots are man to man, come on now the GOAT getting man to freaking man coverage, and LeBron a percieved clutch choker gets double teamed. Yeah the defenses were much better in the past lol.

[ballinhun8]

Defense is 100000000000000000x better now than it was even in the late 80's. Zone's changed the league for the better. In the past it was man to man, what's a double team? They didn't use them, 99% of MJ's "clutch" shots are man to man, come on now the GOAT getting man to freaking man coverage, and LeBron a percieved clutch choker gets double teamed. Yeah the defenses were much better in the past lol.


Defenses could do more then then they do now.


It's just offenses were much more run and gun. Nowadays you can run over player like James does and get and ones. Or you can not attempt to play defense and step in front of a player who has a wide open lane and get the charge call.


And yea its true he got some man to man coverage but their were also better man to man defenders who weren't afraid of the refs making the decision.

[lilgodfather1]

Defenses could do more then then they do now.


It's just offenses were much more run and gun. Nowadays you can run over player like James does and get and ones. Or you can not attempt to play defense and step in front of a player who has a wide open lane and get the charge call.


And yea its true he got some man to man coverage but their were also better man to man defenders who weren't afraid of the refs making the decision.
The only thing that players were allowed to do differently was hand check. The fouls would still be the same roughly as nobody can take LeBron down now, even when they try. LeBron would be the GOAT if he played in the 70's and 80's no doubts. Career average of 37/14/11, 4 or 5 rings, 8 or 9 MVP's. Would have been great.

[Doctor Rivers]

He's still sustaining his GSOAT play...

[It's A VC3!!!]

The one thing I don't like about LeBron is how he tries to beautify his stats by trying to get his 7 or 8 assists. Just score the damn ball and stop trying to get others involved when you clearly have the skill to get 40 every night. As a person who enjoys watching him play it pisses me off when I see him remain passive and try and let others get involved. It seems to be working now, but we will see in the playoffs.

[plUto or bUst]

The one thing I don't like about LeBron is how he tries to beautify his stats by trying to get his 7 or 8 assists. Just score the damn ball and stop trying to get others involved when you clearly have the skill to get 40 every night. As a person who enjoys watching him play it pisses me off when I see him remain passive and try and let others get involved. It seems to be working now, but we will see in the playoffs.

1. He can't be a scoring machine for 42 minutes a game. Even Lebron needs a breather.
2. Getting teammates involved helps open up his game.
3. Getting teammates involved enables them to gain confidence and play better.

[arifgokcen]

The one thing I don't like about LeBron is how he tries to beautify his stats by trying to get his 7 or 8 assists. Just score the damn ball and stop trying to get others involved when you clearly have the skill to get 40 every night. As a person who enjoys watching him play it pisses me off when I see him remain passive and try and let others get involved. It seems to be working now, but we will see in the playoffs.

Actually i might have to agree with this.Sometimes he tries too hard.He is by far the most efficient scorer in the game and he has the talent to score much more than he is now.I would like him to become 5apg and 33-35ppg player on %52-53

[plUto or bUst]

Actually i might have to agree with this.Sometimes he tries too hard.He is by far the most efficient scorer in the game and he has the talent to score much more than he is now.I would like him to become 5apg and 33-35ppg player on %52-53

There is a reason he is the most efficient scorer in the game. He doesn't force anything. If he were to try to become a 35 ppg player he would probably shoot under 50%.

Right now, he is having an incredible season playing unselfish basketball and not forcing anything.

[arifgokcen]

There is a reason he is the most efficient scorer in the game. He doesn't force anything. If he were to try to become a 35 ppg player he would probably shoot under 50%.

Right now, he is having an incredible season playing unselfish basketball and not forcing anything.

At worst he would become %50 shooter.He hasnt shot below %50 in 4 years.Considering he was the focal point of offense in cleveland and still averaged 30ppg on %50 and he improved his postgame and midrange j vastly since cleveland days,he could easily become 35ppg on %50-52.I think he needs to score more.He is not even taking 18shots per game.Thats unacceptable for a player as efficient as him.Dont forget he is scoring almost 28ppg on %56.Again i can easily see him becoming 35ppg on %50-52 taking 21-22 shots per game.

[It's A VC3!!!]

There is a reason he is the most efficient scorer in the game. He doesn't force anything. If he were to try to become a 35 ppg player he would probably shoot under 50%.

Right now, he is having an incredible season playing unselfish basketball and not forcing anything.

Ehh scoring more doesn't mean he will become less efficient. I just think he needs to stop having the mentality where he wants to give other guys a chance of scoring rather then doing it himself. I definitely would like to see his assists down and his scoring up because that's the type of player he should be.

[pauk]

There is a reason he is the most efficient scorer in the game. He doesn't force anything. If he were to try to become a 35 ppg player he would probably shoot under 50%.

Right now, he is having an incredible season playing unselfish basketball and not forcing anything.

Doesnt force anything? What is that supposed to mean? Like he is taking open FG attempts all the time or something?

Just stop with the excuses....

Lebron is the best scorer in the NBA.... he has it all in his scoring arsenal right now, all type of jumpshots from any range, midrange, post-game, face-up game, slashing & finishing, power, finesse, skill & talent... all at ridicilous efficiency & productivity.... you name it.......

If he didnt care about his teammates offensively (or simply was a bad passer) and therefore had only one thought in mind "SCORE!" (like Kobe or Durant) and would ignore getting Wade & Bosh involved so much and even ignoring them during the Clutch time very often... you would see what he could average .... but you wont, he aint that type of a douche teammate...

[I<3NBA]

NO. because there is still next year. and the next. and the next...

[La Frescobaldi]

the guy is smokin everybody he meets, and you gotta consider what Oscar says. Guys that didn't see Oscar just need to know that man could hoop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdnBsCmST_E

although that clip is cut short........ Oscar doesn't think Jordan is better than some of the guys of his own era also.

But however you look at it, LeBron is playing at the level of Chamberlain, Kareem, Bird, & MJ and he's on that path to be one of the giants. Can he finish the season?

I wish the eras were consistent though as far as rules. Today's wide open paint which is deliberately created by the NBA takes away some of the luster. But this guy is amazing

[Dave3]

How does playing on the Heats hurt his assists?

Easy, he's much less a focal point of the offense, so a lot of his passes lead to assists, or plays that eventually score but aren't direct assists. Playing on a team with other stars who hold the ball for longer times will obviously hurt your assists, because it's in your hand less than if you were the only star. Hence you know, his lowest apg in a very long time.


Almost every time he kicks it out to an open shooter (Bosh, Chalmers, Miller, etc.) they knock it down at a ridiculous rate. And he and Wade help each other get easy buckets and assists all the time.

Him and Wade actually hurt each other's assists numbers. When him and Wade pass it to each other, it's rarely a bucket right away, instead it's a move towards the basket, fake, then bucket. Even though it leads to a score, it's not counted as an assist. Again, the proof is easily in the fact that they're both having one of their lowest assist seasons of their career, and their lowest in the last 4 or 5 years.



He could probably score more points on another team by taking more shots, but his FG% would come down quite a bit, because he cannot shoot, and he cannot drive like he used to.
His field goal % would come down? Yes. Quite a bit? No. Can't shoot like he used to? He's a better shooter than at any point in Cleveland. He's a worse slasher yes, but he's also in the post much more frequently than he was at any point in Cleveland. He had a 50% FG% with a worse jumper and going to the post half as much. He'd easily be 52-53% right now if he was with Cleveland, but he'd also be taking 20 FGA/game and 10 FTA/game instead of 18.4 and 8.4 right now, so his ppg would be ~30.

[chips93]

I wish the eras were consistent though as far as rules. Today's wide open paint which is deliberately created by the NBA takes away some of the luster. But this guy is amazing

i know that hand checking makes things easier, but being allowed to help off of your man more these days negates that a small bit

teams that load up on the strong side (celtics, bulls, etc.) wouldnt be allowed to do so back in the 90s and before that, so that helps defenses a lot, compared to previous eras.

i dont think people acknowledge this enough.

[KevinNYC]

the guy is smokin everybody he meets, and you gotta consider what Oscar says. Guys that didn't see Oscar just need to know that man could hoop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdnBsCmST_E

although that clip is cut short........ Oscar doesn't think Jordan is better than some of the guys of his own era also.

But however you look at it, LeBron is playing at the level of Chamberlain, Kareem, Bird, & MJ and he's on that path to be one of the giants. Can he finish the season?

I wish the eras were consistent though as far as rules. Today's wide open paint which is deliberately created by the NBA takes away some of the luster. But this guy is amazing

Longer clip here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I52nezhkyA&feature=related

Also check the bronze statute of a leaping Oscar Robertson.

[chazzy]

He'd easily be 52-53% right now if he was with Cleveland, but he'd also be taking 20 FGA/game and 10 FTA/game instead of 18.4 and 8.4 right now, so his ppg would be ~30.
Cleveland wouldn't be playing at this kind of pace, pushing for fastbreaks as often as they do. Those teams were very half court oriented and methodical.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I think so. Lebron's jumper may not be what it was last year, but I feel the game comes MUCH easier to him. Part of that is due to a refinement in skills. He's shooting an amazing % (getting a lot of his points in transition) and working out of the post more-so than he has his entire career; likewise, his defense has looked incredible (especially vs. Gasol last Sunday).

As I said, dude just makes the game look EASY.

EDIT: thought the op read his best season, not EVER...:lol

[Dave3]

Cleveland wouldn't be playing at this kind of pace, pushing for fastbreaks as often as they do. Those teams were very half court oriented and methodical.
And that was because of LeBron. He was the one that controlled the pace, whether it was high or slow paced. I think whatever he's doing in Miami, he could've done in Cleveland.

[chazzy]

And that was because of LeBron. He was the one that controlled the pace, whether it was high or slow paced. I think whatever he's doing in Miami, he could've done in Cleveland.
Nah it was more of a Mike Brown thing. Everyone was saying how deadly Lebron would be in a uptempo/transition type offense and that's what Miami has adjusted to this season. Cleveland Lebron was capable of this level of play stylistically in addition to being a better halfcourt/crunch time player.

[Dave3]

Nah it was more of a Mike Brown thing. Everyone was saying how deadly Lebron would be in a uptempo/transition type offense and that's what Miami has adjusted to this season. Cleveland Lebron was capable of this level of play stylistically in addition to being a better halfcourt/crunch time player.
I'm not arguing he wasn't capable, just that he chose to slow the pace down. It's hard for me to argue choice in terms of LeBron vs. Mike Brown just because it's hard to figure out who was actually in charge offensively. If it was indeed Mike Brown, then he'd be able to do that on the current Cavs because Brown's gone.

[Doctor Rivers]

bumpage

:lebron:

[Doctor Rivers]

There is a reason he is the most efficient scorer in the game. He doesn't force anything. If he were to try to become a 35 ppg player he would probably shoot under 50%.

Right now, he is having an incredible season playing unselfish basketball and not forcing anything.

:cheers:

[ganja0710]

Bosh - 23 points on Dwight Howard
LeBron - 14 on Hedo turkoglu

:roll:

[Lebron23]

Hell no.

The Op is a *****.

[pegasus]

I guess he's been on a little bit of a downtrend lately...

He's averaging 23 PPG, shooting .464/.0308/.767 in the last five games.

I think Tony Parker should be leading the MVP race at the moment.

[jb220]

He's averaging 23 PPG, shooting .464/.0308/.767 in the last five games.

I think Tony Parker should be leading the MVP race at the moment.
lmao:lol

[pegasus]

lmao:lol
You do know that he's been in the MVP discussion for a while now, right? With Lebron and Durant struggling, Rose missing games, Howard's Orlando losing, it's normal for TP's stock to go up.

[CavaliersFTW]

Nope
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/9/128707282927128334.jpg

[Doctor Rivers]

Nope
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/9/128707282927128334.jpg

who's opie?

[RoseCity07]

I don't get why people bash PER. There is no point, the stat doesn't have a bias, it is a formula. A formula that just so happens to show who the best players in the league are. You don't see Chris Quinn with a PER of 30. You mostly see players put in their place.

[Kurosawa0]

I think Tony Parker should be leading the MVP race at the moment.

Parker has been great, but you can't put him close to LeBron or Durant. It's those two guys and everyone else at this point.

[SwooshReturns]

I can't comment on GOAT because I've watched since 2001. I can say that he was better than 2003 Duncan, but still worse than 2001 Shaq whom I had previously considered the best prime. I was only 13 or 14 back then, but I definitely could tell that Shaq was ridiculously unstoppable. Hated him with a passion, called him "unskilled, fat, big, bully" all the names I could think of because I hate his style of just pushing people around. 10 years later, I appreciate what he did a lot more, and no question have him as the best player I've seen at any point in time. I'd put 2009 and 2010 LeBron's seasons below his, around the same spot as Duncan's 2001-2003 years and Kobe's 2006-2008 years. I do have LeBron's seasons above Duncan/Kobe's though by a small margin.

Edit: Oh crap, I see now where I made the mistake. By "this argument" I meant LeBron's best season, not GOAT season. The whole GOAT thing isn't even in my mind because I've watched maybe 15% of the NBA's existence.
You can base your personal GOAT based off your viewing experience. Even if you just started watching in 2001.

I personally didn't see Magic, Bird, or Isiah in their primes ... so I can't comment having seen player in their day, within context. Of course I've seen replays of them.

You can only judge what you have seen, ya know?

[Richesly]

people keep saying that all his shots are EASY dunks and layups, yet most people here can't even touch rim or probably net. and can't perform a layup.:coleman:

[SAKOTXA]

SMH at the Messi comparison...Messi is a winner.

[jbryan1984]

08-09, he was just the ****ing man there.

[SwooshReturns]

08-09, he was just the ****ing man there.
In the playoffs, sure. That regular season belonged to D-Wade.

In 2010 he was better, actually. Jump shot improved even more, even better defender. Could've had a better playoffs too. He was a MONSTER in that Bulls series. Watching him as a Bulls fan ... he was the first player playing my squad that EVER made me say ... YIKES.

He was a MONSTER in game 3 v.s. the Celtics. Then he got a defeatist attitude and quit.

:(

[magnax1]

Ever? Hell no. I'll take 06 Kobe and 00 Shaq just in the past decade or so. It's definitely the best season of the past 5 years though.

[SwooshReturns]

Ever? Hell no. I'll take 06 Kobe and 00 Shaq just in the past decade or so. It's definitely the best season of the past 5 years though.
You don't think LeBron's 2009 or 2010 themselves are better? Hell, his 2008 is kind of slept on as well.

[magnax1]

You don't think LeBron's 2009 or 2010 themselves are better? Hell, his 2008 is kind of slept on as well.
Definitely not. Better Slasher and more athletic, but now he's better at almost everything else. There's a very large gap in defense, and he can also work within an offense much better now that he has a good jumpshot (Not that his J was awful in 09 or 10) and a couple post moves. I wouldn't have a big problem with someone saying he was better in 2010 though, but I don't see a reason to take the 09 season over this year.

[SwooshReturns]

Definitely not. Better Slasher and more athletic, but now he's better at almost everything else.
Except for being able to be a one man basketball army, which is directly associated with his then insane ability to create in the half court off the dribble at his size, finish with authority at the rim, and still get others involved.

He can't do nadda in the half court now on ISOs ... everything is revolved around the pick and roll, and even then he still can't beat some people off the dribble.

That's why the guy struggles so much when the opposing team slows the game down.

I don't think his slight improvements in jump shooting, and ever so slight improvements in the post make up for the thing that literally made him one of the greatest players to ever touch a ball. Because everything else was as good or better pre 2011.

LeBron 2008, 2009, and 2010 >>> LeBron 2011, and 2012

[magnax1]

Except for being able to be a one man basketball army, which is directly associated with his then insane ability to create in the half court off the dribble at his size, finish with authority at the rim, and still get others involved.

He can't do nadda in the half court now on ISOs ... everything is revolved around the pick and roll, and even then he still can't beat some people off the dribble.

That's why the guy struggles so much when the opposing team slows the game down.

I don't think his slight improvements in jump shooting, and ever so slight improvements in the post make up for the thing that literally made him one of the greatest players to ever touch a ball. Because everything else was as good or better pre 2011.

LeBron 2008, 2009, and 2010 >>> LeBron 2011, and 2012
He hasn't fallen off nearly as much athletically as you make it out to be. He struggled in slow series against good defenses in the years you listed too, and really the only exception to that is the series he was guarded by a combination of Hedo and Pietrus.
And the improvements are not slight at all. Before this year he had no post game, and now he's one of the better perimeter post players in the league. In 09 he shot 31% from 10-15 feet and 43 EFG% on jumpers overall, and this year he shoots 48% and 47% EFG% from those areas. On a per minute basis he scores about 1 less ppg then 09 and 10, and does that while putting a much greater effort in on defense and rebounding.

[Bladers]

:oldlol:

[nathanjizzle]

:oldlol:
:oldlol:

[PickernRoller]

:oldlol:

:oldlol:

[sbw19]

SMH at the Messi comparison...Messi is a winner.
He is. But is he a leader in the same vein of, say, Maradona or Zidane.. WC and NBA Finals are similar in that they are the biggest stages for their respective sports; the ultimate proving ground. If neither passes those tests they'd be considered underachievers in the eyes of many.

[SpecialQue]

:oldlol:

:lebroncry:

[Heavincent]

:oldlol:

:oldlol:

[zizozain]

:oldlol:
:oldlol:

[Indian guy]

I have been like a rock about this from the get-go. Here's what I said in this thread on February 24:
This wouldn't even make his Top 5 seasons. People have no idea how misleading that stat line is. LeBron is so far away from the playmaker he once was, the notion of him being the league's best player would have been laughable had he still been a Cavalier. He can get away with it on a loaded team like Miami, but even then, I don't know how anyone can miss how limited his game is. He can't drive, is having his worst shooting season since '08, and basically plays a very passive brand of basketball, where he'll ONLY shoot with a cushion on the lead. If Miami wasn't so good at forcing turnovers and getting out on the break, LeBron would likely be having his 2nd worst season statistically.

Good to be validated.

[305Baller]

http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Stanley+_81136c014fcdc39ab236eb398841ce60.gif

[G-Funk]

:oldlol:
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

what is up with replies to a lol face with a lol face?

[guy]

I have been like a rock about this from the get-go. Here's what I said in this thread on February 24:

Good to be validated.

You have good points but Lebron is the biggest reason why the Heat are so good at forcing turnovers and getting on the break.

[Doctor Rivers]

Seems like this sentiment may be back in play...

MVP
DPOY
NBA 1st Team
NBA Defensive First Team
All-Star
PER Leader
Championship + FMVP ???

A lot of what-ifs.... but damn

[Doctor Rivers]

Seems like this sentiment may be back in play...

MVP
DPOY
NBA 1st Team
NBA Defensive First Team
All-Star
PER Leader
Championship + FMVP ???

A lot of what-ifs.... but damn

Oh yeah Olympic gold medal

[Doctor Rivers]

Also has the chance to redeem himself against the Spurs in the Finals

[Doctor Rivers]

I have been like a rock about this from the get-go. Here's what I said in this thread on February 24:

Good to be validated.

Good to be invalidated

[pauk]

Seems like this sentiment may be back in play...

MVP
DPOY
NBA 1st Team
NBA Defensive First Team
All-Star
PER Leader
Championship + FMVP ???

A lot of what-ifs.... but damn

lol, you are right... he has a chance to do all that... :bowdown:

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Lebron's having a great year but it's not the best ever. Jordan has had some God years where he was the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league. Shaq in 2000. Wilt averaged 50 points a game, etc.

[TheMan]

Chicago - Injured Rose. Chalmers is only getting better.
Boston - LOL REALLY?
San Antonio - The Grizzlies set the blueprint to expose them.
Dallas - Won't get past OKC.
:roll:

[tmacattack33]

:oldlol:

:oldlol:


One month later, Lebron has a great month, with Wade and Bosh missing some games and Lebron turning up his play.

LOL face is correct.

[Doctor Rivers]

Seems like this sentiment may be back in play...

MVP
DPOY
NBA 1st Team
NBA Defensive First Team
All-Star
PER Leader
Championship + FMVP ???

A lot of what-ifs.... but damn

No DPOY but everything else has happened or is still in play.

[pauk]

:bowdown:

He could have won the DPOY with a little more effort (surprisingly he got the most 1st all-defensive team votes, more than the guy who won DPOY)...

He could have also won the All-Star MVP if he hit the gamewinner or if that pass was not deflected..

Not to mention he will get another Olympic Gold Medal soon to..

[Fatstogie]

Michael Jordan's 1990 season was more dominant.
Nope

[Coffee Black]

Nope, his team didn't even have the best record in the league.

[Odinn]

But he didn't have. There was no reason to bump this thread.:facepalm

[Odinn]

He was pretty close
No, he wasn't. It wasn't even top 5 or top 10 season by a superstar.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Title: Is Lebron having the best LOCKOUT SHORTENED SEASON EVER?

Fixed. To answer that question, Yes.

[KDTrey5]

Fixed. To answer that question, Yes.
so much hate

[RRR3]

i sob uncontrollably at night ever since Lebron won
:applause:

[KDTrey5]

He wishes it was Kobe. He would have lived with team USA losing and Kobe scoring 40.
:lol

[RRR3]

He wishes it was Kobe. He would have lived with team USA losing and Kobe scoring 40.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

:applause:
I'm sobbing over 1 ring?

Please, I'm a Laker fan.

[RRR3]

I hate LeBron so much for being better than my lawd gawdbe the man of my dreams
:wtf:

[Odinn]

LOL it was at least a top 10 season. He should have won DPOY.
Jordan in 1990-91
Jordan in 1991-92
Duncan in 2002-03
Shaq in 1999-00
Bird in 1985-86
Magic in 1986-87
Wilt in 1966-67
Russell in 1964-65
Hakeem in 1993-94
Hakeem in 1994-95
Moses in 1982-83 (he was at his best in 1981-82 imo)
Kareem in 1979-80 (he was at his best in 1976-77 imo)

All of them with or without doubt better than LeBron in 2011-12.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:wtf:
Kobe's 33, Lebron's 27 :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

Kobe's 33, Lebron's 27 :confusedshrug:
Grampabe
Seniorcitizenbe
Alzheimer'sbe
Wheelchairbe
Nursinghomebe
Geriatricbe

[Legends66NBA7]

Nope, still wasn't the best season ever.

His personal best, but there have been better.

[NumberSix]

Nope, still wasn't the best season ever.

His personal best, but there have been better.
such as......

[pauk]

According to PER, this is Lebrons best season statistically.... at 31.8.... which also ties Wilt Chamberlain for the highest PER ever in a season....

[Bandito]

What about this season?
So you wait literally a year to ask him now?:facepalm

[pauk]

Top 10 highest PER in a regular season:

2013 Lebron James - 31.8
1962 Wilt Chamberlain - 31.8
1961 Wilt Chamberlain - 31.7
1987 Michael Jordan - 31.7
2008 Lebron James - 31.7
1990 Michael Jordan - 31.6
1963 Wilt Chamberlain - 31.6
1989 Michael Jordan - 31.2
1988 Michael Jordan - 31.1
2009 Lebron James - 31.1

What this above tells you is that Wilt, Lebron and Michael Jordan have been statistically the most overall productive/efficient players in NBA history per minute & possession........... Take it for what it simply is, PER is just a rating of players stats, doesnt mean they are GOATs just because of that, however the numbers just so happen to not lie here so much... I mean Jordan sure is the GOAT and Wilt is close to that to and Lebron is closing in on top 10 aswell already, but not simply just because of their stats....

So... slurpety slurp on Wilt/Jordan/Lebron :)

[Connor B]

Well, that's about as much as I'm going to waste on you and this ridiculously stupid topic.

Citing PER as the only source to indicate he's having the best year ever is weak. You can't put up number because Wilt's numbers destroys lebrons. We don't even want to get into Jordan's numbers.

Like I said, stupid troll is stupid.

Lebron would average similar numbers had he played in that era.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

According to PER, this is Lebrons best season statistically.... at 31.8.... which also ties Wilt Chamberlain for the highest PER ever in a season....
He's not at 31.8 he's at 31.6ish where did you get that stat?

[pauk]

He's not at 31.8 he's at 31.6ish where did you get that stat?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

After tonight he is probably around 31.8 / 31.9....

[black&scholes]

I still think Lebron's 09 season was the best, both from a stats perspective and from the fact that he lead a bunch of scrubs to the best record in NBA

[RoundMoundOfReb]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

After tonight he is probably around 31.8 / 31.9....
Holinger's is not accurate. Use bball ref. he's at 31.67. Also he shouldn't go up much after today. might go down a bit.

[Legends66NBA7]

What about this season?

We have to wait until the playoffs are over. :confusedshrug:

Still a great season, though.


such as......

You said it was number 1 of all-time. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this if that's how you feel. Look at Odinn's list and some of the names are there. If you don't agree, fine, but that's all I'm going to say on this matter.

[black&scholes]

have to see how his post season goes

[Graviton]

His PER would be at 32+ if he didn't have those high turnover games post all-star break, he was at 2.4-2.6 turnovers then jumped to 3.0 in past few weeks.

PER shouldn't be the #1 criteria when so little impact changes the final number so much.

[DatAsh]

PER shouldn't be the #1 criteria when so little impact changes the final number so much.

PER shouldn't be the #1 criteria period.

[ThaRegul8r]

PER shouldn't be the #1 criteria period.

This.

[Shade8780]

50/25 >>> 32.4 Per
24/24 on 68.3% >>> 50/25 on 50.6%

[Unbiased_one]

:lol

32.5 (54%) 8 rpg 8 apg 2.9 spg

pace was higher then