Was the 2002 western conference finals settled by the Refs or did Kings choke?

[BMOGEFan]

Chris' michigan finals turnover plagued him for the rest of his basketball career.

He was the best player in sactown, yet during the duel with the lakers, he deferred all the shots to bibby and divac.

will lebron have this same fate?

[SwooshReturns]

Well Bibby converted, so it made sense.

[Nash]

:lol

Chris Webber has a extremely stupid incident in the FINAL game compared to Lebron having a turnover in the All Star exhibition game? This shit is crazy.

Also, Webber had a fantastic career, he got over it. Also Lebron had the worst moment of his career in the finals last season and he bounced back by having the best season in his career.

[LBJMVP]

:lol

Chris Webber has a extremely stupid incident in the FINAL game compared to Lebron having a turnover in the All Star exhibition game? This shit is crazy.

Also, Webber had a fantastic career, he got over it. Also Lebron had the worst moment of his career in the finals last season and he bounced back by having the best season in his career.


lebron had the worst finals performance by a superstar in history.
worst fourth quarters ever :facepalm

you act like the allstar game is the first we have seen this.

[pegasus]

No wonder C-Webb is one of the biggest Lebron homers out there. He seems himself in Lebron:roll:

[stallionaire]

Bullshit. Webber was robbed of the Finals back in 02 and we all know it.

[NumberSix]

Are we really gonna blame C.Webb for Sac losing the 2002 WCF? Lol. GTFO.

[Legends66NBA7]

Are we really gonna blame C.Webb for Sac losing the 2002 WCF? Lol. GTFO.

No, but he's had a lot more choking experiences before and after.

Check out Game 5, 1999 First Round vs Utah. Him and Karl Malone took turns choking.

[stallionaire]

Chris Webber is a nice guy and he was a great baller. Stop hating.

[All Net]

Pretty stupid comparision really as Lebron has hit game winners and come through in the clutch. He just hasn't done it enough in Miami apart from vs Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs. The finals is where he has to prove he can hit big shots he has proven time after time he can do it in the playoffs and regular season.

[StateOfMind12]

Actually Lebron-CWebb comparison is correct, it is just that the wrong comparisons have been made.

Ever since LeBron has failed in the 2009 ECF and lost despite the fact that he did whatever he could do his power to win, LeBron has been mentally weak. Did anyone honestly question LeBron's mentality and intangibles before the 2009 season? If anything that was the thing people were praising LeBron for.

CWebb was the same way, ever since he choked in that NCAA Championship game and called the timeout, he has been afraid of the clutch moment.

[poido123]

Bullshit. Webber was robbed of the Finals back in 02 and we all know it.

:applause: Exactly. Webber should have a ring, 2002 will always have an asterix on it.

[SwooshReturns]

CWebb was the same way, ever since he choked in that NCAA Championship game and called the timeout, he has been afraid of the clutch moment.
And ever since MJ nailed that jumper to beat Georgetown in the NCAA Championship, he was ADDICTED to those situations.

:pimp:

[All Net]

:applause: Exactly. Webber should have a ring, 2002 will always have an asterix on it.

Not really, if Kings hit their free-throws in the 4th quarter of game 7 this wouldn't of been an issue.

[SwooshReturns]

Not really, if Kings hit their free-throws in the 4th quarter of game 7 this wouldn't of been an issue.
This ...

[poido123]

Not really, if Kings hit their free-throws in the 4th quarter of game 7 this wouldn't of been an issue.

True, but a total change of scenario in game 6 with correct reffing, would also mean there would be no game 7.

[SwooshReturns]

True, but a total change of scenario in game 6 with correct reffing, would also change the landscape of game 7 with different events.
Kings had an opportunity to win and didn't ... case closed.

[All Net]

True, but a total change of scenario in game 6 with correct reffing, would also mean there would be no game 7.

There was some bad calls in game 6 yes but they had game 7 at HOME and missed so many FT's for a chance to win it all...their had their chances and blew it.

[poido123]

There was some bad calls in game 6 yes but they had game 7 at HOME and missed so many FT's for a chance to win it all...their had their chances and blew it.

I believe your a Laker fan if im not mistaken? Hard pill to swallow for you to fully admit the travesty, but I cant see it any other way. This isnt my hate of Lakers talking, they were robbed.

The point is, they would of closed out the series with a win in game 6. Full stop. If you want to say there were bad calls both ways, then you dont understand the whole story. Refs were manipulating the result from the START of the game to make you believe that.

[poido123]

Kings had an opportunity to win and didn't ... case closed.

Kings had them on toast, but were only fooled to believe they had a chance to win. The game was won by corruption and monetary gain. Has been verified by a referee no less.

[Teanett]

webber looks real skinny now.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Chris' michigan finals turnover plagued him for the rest of his basketball career.

He was the best player in sactown, yet during the duel with the lakers, he deferred all the shots to bibby and divac.

will lebron have this same fate?

Lebron is wise to defer to the most clutch player on his team. That just shows me that Lebron is a good, smart teammate.

[Jasper]

Lebron needs to go back to Michigan , exact time , date , place on the court to close the time warp.

[Simple Jack]

There's no "the Kings should have done this"...that's absolute nonsense. They got shafted in what was one of the biggest sports controversies to hit professional basketball.

Is it not understood that there was blatant cheating going on? The game was fixed to screw the Kings. The logic being shown above is absurd. If cheating happens, it's ok, as long as they are fairly given a chance the next game? Surprised to hear this from you, All Net.

[Lebron23]

To tell you the truth LBJ is a better playoffs performer than Webber.

[RazorBaLade]

go look up gm5 in that series..... lakers got robbed

series was a joke i think they wanted gm7 from the start but didnt care who won

[stallionaire]

are we really arguing that the Lakers didn't win the 2002 finals because it was rigged for them... thought this was common knowledge. Kobe has 4 rings.

[RazorBaLade]

are we really arguing that the Lakers didn't win the 2002 finals because it was rigged for them... thought this was common knowledge. Kobe has 4 rings.

u dumbass thats not what happened

look at gm5

[All Net]

There's no "the Kings should have done this"...that's absolute nonsense. They got shafted in what was one of the biggest sports controversies to hit professional basketball.

Is it not understood that there was blatant cheating going on? The game was fixed to screw the Kings. The logic being shown above is absurd. If cheating happens, it's ok, as long as they are fairly given a chance the next game? Surprised to hear this from you, All Net.

Never said in game 6 Kings didn't get screwed as they did. However Lakers also had some bad calls in game 5...fact remains Kings still had chances to win and should of done in game 7...but failed to make the right plays to put L.A away.

[Lamar Odumbb]

Never said in game 6 Kings didn't get screwed as they did. However Lakers also had some bad calls in game 5...fact remains Kings still had chances to win and should of done in game 7...but failed to make the right plays to put L.A away.

True. What people fail to realize is the NBA wanted that series to go 7 games. The cheating or rigging began in game five where Kobe and Shaq were in foul trouble all game. Matter of fact, Shaq got 2 questionable fouls called on him in a span of 45 seconds in the 4th that changed the game.

Game 6 was no doubt rigged for Lakers but game 5 was also rigged in the Kings favor because the NBA knew if the Lakers won game 5, there wouldnt be a game 7 since Lakers would have no doubt won game 6 at Staples.

If the NBA wanted the Lakers to win that series, why didn't the Lakers shoot 40 free throws to 10 for the Kings in game 7. Lakers shot 33 free throws to 30 for the KIngs.

[Deltron3030]

It'll happen but it won't be on his own. It'll have to happen on a defensive steal for a fastbreak, or something similar. I just don't see him taking that clutch moment shot on his own, it'll have to be handed to him whether it's him creating something defensively or the team creating a turnover.

[The Iron Fist]

There's no "the Kings should have done this"...that's absolute nonsense. They got shafted in what was one of the biggest sports controversies to hit professional basketball.

Is it not understood that there was blatant cheating going on? The game was fixed to screw the Kings. The logic being shown above is absurd. If cheating happens, it's ok, as long as they are fairly given a chance the next game? Surprised to hear this from you, All Net.
Is that when the Kings shot 35 free throws and LA only 15?

[eazyduzzit10]

Is that when the Kings shot 35 free throws and LA only 15?
The number of free throws given is irrelevant. It's whether the FTs/calls given were actually legit? I'm not disagreeing with you or anything because I actually haven't seen that series. I just find it weird how people justify fair officiating with free throw numbers

[Simple Jack]

Never said in game 6 Kings didn't get screwed as they did. However Lakers also had some bad calls in game 5...fact remains Kings still had chances to win and should of done in game 7...but failed to make the right plays to put L.A away.

Bad calls is one thing. A referee going to jail because he completely destroyed the integrity of the game is another.

If they were given a fair shot throughout, I'd understand the reasoning but they were literally cheated out of a game. What happened after is irrelevant; especially considering how close of a series it was.

[Simple Jack]

Is that when the Kings shot 35 free throws and LA only 15?

I'm referring to game 6 where the Lakers shot 27 (?) ft's in the 4th quarter.

In game 7, Lakers took 33 to Kings 30.

[All Net]

Bad calls is one thing. A referee going to jail because he completely destroyed the integrity of the game is another.

If they were given a fair shot throughout, I'd understand the reasoning but they were literally cheated out of a game. What happened after is irrelevant; especially considering how close of a series it was.

I'm not disagreeing...Kings got screwed in game 6 but it's not like this happened in the last game. They still had the series in their hands and couldn't make the simple foul shots to win that was my point.

[poido123]

I'm not disagreeing...Kings got screwed in game 6 but it's not like this happened in the last game. They still had the series in their hands and couldn't make the simple foul shots to win that was my point.

If game 5 was rigged in Kings favour, to ensure the series went to at least 6 games, there was no way that kings were going to bounce back and win game 7 after such terrible officiating in game 6. So point is All Net, the series was ALWAYS going to be won by the Lakers.

Has nothing to do with Kings not taking chances in game 7, they had already lost mentally in game 6.

[HighFlyer23]

2002 WCF and the 2006 finals were the biggest fixes in NBA history ... maybe even professional sports history ...

[AngelEyes]

2002 WCF and the 2006 finals were the biggest fixes in NBA history ... maybe even professional sports history ...

1972 olympics

[Shepseskaf]

2002 WCF and the 2006 finals were the biggest fixes in NBA history ... maybe even professional sports history ...
Yup. And what has Dictator Stern done to refute the fixing charges?

Nothing.

Probably because he ordered them himself. In 2002 he wanted to promote the Lakers as a possible dynasty to increase league popularity, and in 2006 he wanted to screw Mark Cuban.

[Yanch856]

Frigging rigged. What does it tell you when a ref, Tim Donaghy, was sentenced to jail for fixing the games? That not only were games rigged in the NBA, and more refs were probably doing the same.

Straight up the 2001-2002 Kings should be the real champs. The looked a better team, played like a better team, that Kings team should have been historical. C-Webb, Divac, Christie, Bibby, Peja?? Not to mention BJax, Hedo and co off the bench.

This video is actually pretty well made you have time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdOe4IxIvo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7WRxuYs9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDyBXNSPGMQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxTjOPImyts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbxrAPO0iTg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVDiXVD2HoU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDqs8ptcOdM

[FindingTim]

Finals or not, those Kings teams were some of the best I've ever seen.
Truth be told, those teams are what got me into basketball.
They were truly a TEAM. Everyone mattered. Everyone passed.

I'm not from Sacramento or anything, but those Kings were probably my favorite team of all-time-- in any sport. The only group that gives them competition is the mid-late 90's Seattle Mariners.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kings shot more freethrows than the Lakers for the series and 20 more times in game 3

[Simple Jack]

Kings shot more freethrows than the Lakers for the series and 20 more times in game 3

Deuce explained it. Discussion over. Nothing more to see here.

What does this have to do with anything? Tim Donaghy went to jail and there will forever be a stain on the NBA and it's officiating because of Game 6. Justify the rest however you want, but game 6 was one of the most disgusting/sad displays in sports history IMO and nearly destroyed the integrity of the game.

[Yanch856]

Finals or not, those Kings teams were some of the best I've ever seen.
Truth be told, those teams are what got me into basketball.
They were truly a TEAM. Everyone mattered. Everyone passed.

I'm not from Sacramento or anything, but those Kings were probably my favorite team of all-time-- in any sport. The only group that gives them competition is the mid-late 90's Seattle Mariners.

Same here. I stopped watching the NBA when Jordan retired, and had been latent for a few years until my friends started discussing the NBA again. At first I was like, "Nah, nothing after Michael will be the same again". Then I saw the Kings - that team was incredible man. I don't know how it ranks all time but whatever the ranking it, it will no doubt under-rate the true greatness that was the Adelman era Kings. For example, greater than 2004 champion pistons? At least equal IMO.

[SwooshReturns]

Refs don't win and lose games for teams. It's a weak theory to cling to ... and it's for losers.

[BarberSchool]

Refs don't win and lose games for teams. It's a weak theory to cling to ... and it's for losers.Tim Donaghy kinda already admitted to federal officials that the Kings-Lakers series in question was rigged. Your lack of watching the d@mn games with any sort of radar for fair or even moderately lopsided officiating is what is weak here.

[FindingTim]

now that I've read through all the posts, I'm a bit stunned. It's like some of you aren't aware of the Donaghy scandal at all.

As far I remember, he straight up admitted to fixing that series.
I've seen Laker fans justify some ridiculous things, but this is taking it to a whole new level.

The Kings deserved to win that series. Period.

[SwooshReturns]

Tim Donaghy kinda already admitted to federal officials that the Kings-Lakers series in question was rigged. Your lack of watching the d@mn games with any sort of radar for fair or even moderately lopsided officiating is what is weak here.
No, I've noticed those things before. But they can only do so much if they were to influence a game. They aren't out there playing defense, making tons of blatantly ridiculous calls, shooting jumpers, setting picks, etc.

Tim Donaghy is a suspect source to consider given the situation.

If it was legit, why didn't the Feds make a case again Stern and the NBA?

Exactly. STFU and go try and shadow box a gorilla you dumb son of a bitch.

[Deuce Bigalow]

does any1 still think that was an offensive foul on Kobe?
when bibby was bear hugging kobe before the hit

[Deuce Bigalow]

No, I've noticed those things before. But they can only do so much if they were to influence a game. They aren't out there playing defense, making tons of blatantly ridiculous calls, shooting jumpers, setting picks, etc.

Tim Donaghy is a suspect source to consider given the situation.

If it was legit, why didn't the Feds make a case again Stern and the NBA?

Exactly. STFU and go try and shadow box a gorilla you dumb son of a bitch.
:oldlol:

[hitmanyr2k]

Is that when the Kings shot 35 free throws and LA only 15?

Let's be honest. When the Lakers are jacking 30+ three pointers in Game 3 do you really think they deserve free throws? :oldlol: That's an absurd amount of threes in a game.

[SwooshReturns]

does any1 still think that was an offensive foul on Kobe?
when bibby was bear hugging kobe before the hit
The most a rouge ref could do is influence a series. He can't win and lose games for a team. It would be too blatant and obvious to the agenda.

That's all besides the point, if the Kings were easily the better team ... the series wouldn't have gone 7 games.

[chazzy]

My thread on Game 6: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233197

[eliteballer]

The general view of G6 WCF is not just that it was poorly officiated, but deliberately rigged in favor of the Lakers. I've always thought this to be a product of groupthink, due to the fact that the game occurred nearly 10 years ago and people have not watched the game in a normal setting in so long. There's a standout missed call (Pollard's 2nd foul) and a FT disparity stat that is often used to paint a broad stroke over the entire game/quarter with little mention of the fouls which led to the penalty situation.

No one's really legitimately challenged this idea lately, so I thought I would create an open discussion about this. I am linking to every foul or possible missed foul of the 4th quarter, unedited, and including my own interpretation. I'm a Laker fan obviously and tried to be as unbiased as possible, so feel free to contest anything I say.

After going through the entire 4th, pausing and replaying many of the fouls, I felt that there were several calls that went in the Lakers' favor, but the majority were not blatant enough to label the game anything beyond bad officiating. Missed/bad calls happen in every single game. I didn't see anything that suggested the game was rigged beforehand to ensure a Laker W.

Keep in mind that:


1. The home team generally gets the benefit of the doubt in 50/50 situations

2. Referees do not have the benefit of replay, and pay attention to which specific referee calls each foul - they view the play from different angles.

3. Commentators see the same replays we do, so their opinion has no more authority than anyone else watching the same thing.

4. This is prime Shaq, arguably the most difficult player to officiate


Foul #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=3979s
Pollard moving screen

-Tough call. Pollard moved to set the screen kind of late and the ref could have thought his feet were not set by the time George made contact. A replay would be needed to see it more clearly, but I would've let that play go.


Foul #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4010s
Pollard undercut foul against Shaq

-Understandable why so many people think this is a bad call because he's straight up and the replay doesn't show Pollard's lower body, but he clearly undercuts Shaq as he goes up for the shot. As a defender, you cannot move into a shooter's position when he is in the air. Look where Shaq's feet are when he goes up, and look at where Pollard's feet end up after the shot.


Foul #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4151s
Webber fastbreak foul against George

-Clear foul


Foul #4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4253s
George foul against Peja

-Clear foul


Foul #5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4375s
Vlade foul against Shaq

-Vlade invades Shaq's space on the initial fake and then gets him on the forearm on the shot attempt


Foul #6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4522s
Offensive foul by Shaq

-Reasonable call. A bit of acting by Webber but Shaq gets him with the elbow/hip on his spin


Foul #7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4610s
Clear path foul on Jackson

-Clear foul


Foul #8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4738s
Funderburke illegal post D

-Post defenders cannot use both arms. Ref had a better angle of it on the other side. The Kings are now in the penalty for the rest of the quarter


Foul #9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4891s
Reach in by Horry

- Good call


Foul #10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=4978s
Foul by Horry against Divac

- Clear foul


Foul #11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5033s
Foul by Webber on Shaq

- Webber gets Shaq on the head. You could also argue Vlade's arms weren't straight up and Shaq hit them on his way up.


Foul #12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5197s
Webber charge against Horry

- Tough call. From the broadcast angle (and the angle of the ref) it looks like he uses his forearm, but the replay from the side shows he just gives him a shoulder shrug.


Foul #13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5277s
Foul by Vlade against Horry

- Clear foul, Vlade lands on top of Horry. Could've also called a foul on Webber for the reach as well.


Foul #14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5409s
Kobe reach on Bibby

- Clear foul


Foul #15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5444s
Foul by Funderburke on Shaq

- Foul on the post entry, holding with the left arm and reaching over with the right.


Foul #16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5500s
Foul by Shaq on Funderburke

-Could've been a flagrant


Foul #17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5552s
Foul by Christie on Kobe

- Tough call. It looks like contact live, but the replay shows Christie was riding Kobe and went straight up on the shot attempt. I'm not sure if it's considered a foul because he was into Kobe's body as he went up for the shot. It's not clear enough to me, so I probably would've let that go.


Foul #18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5620s
Loose ball foul by Funderburke

- Clear foul


Foul #19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5682s
Foul by Fisher on Bibby

- Fisher reaches and grabs Bibbys shooting arm right before he goes up


Foul #20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5735s
Foul by Turkoglu on Fox

- Turk gets him on his shooting arm/shoulder


Foul #21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=5893s
Blocking foul by Fox

- No replay so it's hard to tell if Fox had position. But it looks like their feet get tangled up, so it's a reasonable call.


Foul #22 - Intentional foul by Jackson


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYV3-Mi8fw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6132s
Elbow by Kobe on Bibby

- Bibby grabbed Kobe around the waste which is why he swung his arm to get around him.


Foul #23 -Intentional foul by Christie

Foul #24 - Intentional foul by Turkoglu


The only BLATANT missed call or bad call is the first Pollard's foul on Shaq. There are a couple of other missed/bad calls, but they were not nearly as clear cut. Basically, I didn't see anything that led me to believe the refs had an agenda to make sure the Lakers won this game going into it.

The full video is there. I don't care what Ralph Nader said etc., you can see every play in the video yourself. Feel free to add any other plays that you think were questionable from the 4th and/or do your own breakdown. I'll edit in the additional questionable calls.

Kings also got more FT in the series and the game with the biggest difference in FT had the Kings shooting more FT.

[chazzy]

The full game I linked to got removed from Youtube. Damn. Oh well, you can see other people's reactions in the thread I guess.

[Simple Jack]

The most a rouge ref could do is influence a series. He can't win and lose games for a team. It would be too blatant and obvious to the agenda.

That's all besides the point, if the Kings were easily the better team ... the series wouldn't have gone 7 games.

All it takes is one rigged call to potentially change a game...are you this dense? Is your love for the Lakers this big that you can't admit a RIGGED series was decided in their favor? Are we going to act like Tim Donaghy wasn't the ref in that series and completely changed the course of it? I'm assuming you think Bibby really did commit a blocking foul against Kobe. They had 27 free throws in the 4th quarter of game 6 with a large majority of them being absolutely awful and you're telling me they can't change the course of a series?

Honestly, can you be any more biased and terrible of a poster?

[FindingTim]

The most a rouge ref could do is influence a series. He can't win and lose games for a team. It would be too blatant and obvious to the agenda.

That's all besides the point, if the Kings were easily the better team ... the series wouldn't have gone 7 games.

It was blatant! It was obvious!
I watched the series with my relatives (raised in Hermosa- all Laker fans) and although they were stoked to win, EVEN THEY were skeptical about the officiating --- not now, years later, but in 2002 as it was happening.

believe it or not, it's possible to root for a team and be an objective observer at the same time. and believe it or not, it's possible for a corrupt referee with TONS to gain to single-handedly change the fate of a playoff series. How do we know this? Because it happened.
Good night.

[StacksOnDeck]

Lol @ you losers ignoring the game where the Kings shot like 20 more fts than LA. Rigged. :rolleyes:

[I<3NBA]

Refs don't win and lose games for teams. It's a weak theory to cling to ... and it's for losers.
i'll be sure to quote you on that when your team loses

[WeGetRing2012]

The series was fixed to go 7 games not for the Lakers to win. Game 5 was just has bad as Game 6 in terms for officiating. (Shaq had 1 free-throw :facepalm ). The Kings choked Game 4 & 7. The series came down to one game and the Lakers won get over it...

[ThaRegul8r]

now that I've read through all the posts, I'm a bit stunned. It's like some of you aren't aware of the Donaghy scandal at all.

This only goes to show you how long people here have actually been watching basketball. If they were old enough to watch basketball at the time and understand what they watched, then they'd know. It was also on the news apart from the sports report, so it became bigger than a sports story.

More proof that most people here simply haven't watched basketball very long because they aren't old enough.

[hitmanyr2k]

Lol @ you losers ignoring the game where the Kings shot like 20 more fts than LA. Rigged. :rolleyes:

I didn't ignore it. Like I said before, if my team were dumb enough to shoot 30+ three pointers in a playoff game the last thing I would be crying about is the free throw discrepancy :oldlol: 1/3 of LA's shots were freakin threes. I doubt they were taking it to the rim much.

[BlackVVaves]

This only goes to show you how long people here have actually been watching basketball. If they were old enough to watch basketball at the time and understand what they watched, then they'd know. It was also on the news apart from the sports report, so it became bigger than a sports story.

More proof that most people here simply haven't watched basketball very long because they aren't old enough.

Co-Signed.

I think the officiating was rigged to go 7 games, not necessarily for the Lakers to win. The calls throughout the series were horrible enough, consistently so, to affirm that. Both teams got screwed, more popularly the Kings in Game 6, but when it came to game 7, I don't think the refs impacted the game in a favor that left me walking away saying "The Kings got screwed!" On the contrary, I think the Kings flopped that day.

Still, they were cheated out of a Game they could have used to go straight to the Finals. So, take it how you want. They were cheated, the Lakers were victims of horrid officiating. Both had a chance to win the game on their terms in Game 7, one did, one didn't.

[JustinJDW]

I love how every time this game is referenced, people are like, "Yeah, there were some minor bad calls in the game."

No. Just no. Bad calls are apart of every game. It is a part of sports. What happened here wasn't bad or missed calls based on human error. It was a screwjob. It was a deliberate attempt to rig the game with the intention of causing a certain team to loose. That's not bad calls. It was an illegal act by an individual that put him in jail.

There's no "gray area". There's no judgement to be made. The Sacramento Kings were screwed out of a Championship. The series was rigged, and it shamed and damaged the NBA for several years and partly still does to this day.

What are we discussing here?

Saying "Oh, well they still had a chance to win in Game 7" is completely irrelevant. That means nothing. Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if the Kings gave up a 50 point lead in Game 7, it should have never came to that.

Of course it wasn't the Lakers fault, but I feel bad for Chris Webber. He's a good guy and he totally deserved to grab at least one ring throughout his career. NBA or NCCA. Guy had a fantastic career though. Two straight NCAA Championship Games, Rookie of the Year, 5-Time All-Star and All-NBA First Team. How is this guy not in the Hall of Fame?

[chazzy]

I love how every time this game is referenced, people are like, "Yeah, there were some minor bad calls in the game."

No. Just no. Bad calls are apart of every game. It is a part of sports. What happened here wasn't bad or missed calls based on human error. It was a screwjob. It was a deliberate attempt to rig the game with the intention of causing a certain team to loose. That's not bad calls. It was an illegal act by an individual that put him in jail.

There's no "gray area". There's no judgement to be made. The Sacramento Kings were screwed out of a Championship. The series was rigged, and it shamed and damaged the NBA for several years and partly still does to this day.

What are we discussing here?

Saying "Oh, well they still had a chance to win in Game 7" is completely irrelevant. That means nothing. Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if the Kings gave up a 50 point lead in Game 7, it should have never came to that.

Of course it wasn't the Lakers fault, but I feel bad for Chris Webber. He's a good guy and he totally deserved to grab at least one ring throughout his career. NBA or NCCA. Guy had a fantastic career though. Two straight NCAA Championship Games, Rookie of the Year, 5-Time All-Star and All-NBA First Team. How is this guy not in the Hall of Fame?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233197

[chazzy]

I just found another version of the full game on youtube. Will update links soon

[WeGetRing2012]

I love how every time this game is referenced, people are like, "Yeah, there were some minor bad calls in the game."

No. Just no. Bad calls are apart of every game. It is a part of sports. What happened here wasn't bad or missed calls based on human error. It was a screwjob. It was a deliberate attempt to rig the game with the intention of causing a certain team to loose. That's not bad calls. It was an illegal act by an individual that put him in jail.

There's no "gray area". There's no judgement to be made. The Sacramento Kings were screwed out of a Championship. The series was rigged, and it shamed and damaged the NBA for several years and partly still does to this day.

What are we discussing here?

Saying "Oh, well they still had a chance to win in Game 7" is completely irrelevant. That means nothing. Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if the Kings gave up a 50 point lead in Game 7, it should have never came to that.

Of course it wasn't the Lakers fault, but I feel bad for Chris Webber. He's a good guy and he totally deserved to grab at least one ring throughout his career. NBA or NCCA. Guy had a fantastic career though. Two straight NCAA Championship Games, Rookie of the Year, 5-Time All-Star and All-NBA First Team. How is this guy not in the Hall of Fame?

What about all the cheating before game 6 that affected the Lakers too?

[SwooshReturns]

i'll be sure to quote you on that when your team loses
Do that fakkit. I never use the refs as a reason when the Bulls lose. I'm not a loser.

The Lakers didn't beat the King BECAUSE of the refs. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Same goes for the Heat beating Dallas in 2006.

[Big#50]

Bibby fouled Kobe with his nose. What do you think?

[DCL]

it's been, what, 10 years? that was still the most bullshit series i've ever seen in any sports. just a giant WTF

[LakersReign]

Not really, if Kings hit their free-throws in the 4th quarter of game 7 this wouldn't of been an issue.


I just love it how they only want to talk about that series supposedly being rigged in relation to the Lakers. Bottom line is, even if the series was rigged Kings couldn't make their shots. The Horry 3 in Game 6 I think it was, wasn't something that could be scripted. The NBA IS NOT the WWF/WWE. For me, that shot kills their whole "series was rigged" theory altogether.

[JohnnySic]

Stern should have been impeached after game 6. Maybe his stink would have been washed off the league by now.

[poido123]

Would like to point this out.

Game 6 was the most pivotal game of that series. If the sole reason was to ensure there was gonna be 6 games, then I sure as hell believe the rigging of game 6 was always going to end the Kings mentally in game 7.

If you want to go by the argument that the Lakers were ripped in game 5, well in actual fact, the biggest damage done was game 6. How do you mentally prepare for a game 7 after that abortion?

[Yanch856]

Basically to me the Kings were the real champs of 2001-2002.

[Simple Jack]

I just love it how they only want to talk about that series supposedly being rigged in relation to the Lakers. Bottom line is, even if the series was rigged Kings couldn't make their shots. The Horry 3 in Game 6 I think it was, wasn't something that could be scripted. The NBA IS NOT the WWF/WWE. For me, that shot kills their whole "series was rigged" theory altogether.

That shot kills it but 27 free throws in the 4th quarter of a game doesn't?

How would the play of a player show you it wasn't rigged? It's the refs that are in question, not the players. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you can't grasp this concept.

:roll: :roll:

[Simple Jack]

Do that fakkit. I never use the refs as a reason when the Bulls lose. I'm not a loser.

The Lakers didn't beat the King BECAUSE of the refs. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Same goes for the Heat beating Dallas in 2006.

Didn't you say Wade's finals in 06 was a mix of him playing extremely well in addition to shoddy officiating? :confusedshrug:

[Figlo]

refs. Why isn't this talked about more, I'm waiting for the day that C-Webb gets interviewed about this. Or any King player for that matter.

[LakersReign]

This only goes to show you how long people here have actually been watching basketball. If they were old enough to watch basketball at the time and understand what they watched, then they'd know. It was also on the news apart from the sports report, so it became bigger than a sports story.

More proof that most people here simply haven't watched basketball very long because they aren't old enough.

:applause: :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:

[vert48]

The Lakers were openly screwed early in the series, while the Kings were screwed in that game. Kings choked.

[Yanch856]

http://givemetherock.com/wp-content/uploads/kings-sports-illustrated.jpg

The greatest show on court :pimp:

[caliman]

Its funny that everyone takes Donaghy's word for Game 6 when he wasn't an official in that game. Was he an official at all in that series?

At the end of the day the Kings shot 16/30 from the line and 2/20 from 3 in Game 7. They had multiple chances to put that series away even after the alleged cheating, so that debunks the theory that they were so distraught after being robbed in Game 6 that they couldn't play Game 7.

[SwooshReturns]

Didn't you say Wade's finals in 06 was a mix of him playing extremely well in addition to shoddy officiating? :confusedshrug:
Yes, because that's what it was. I don't however think the refs had some conspiracy to make the Heat win. Same goes for the Lakers / Kings series. Questionable calls? Sure. There ALWAYS will be questionable calls. I don't believe there was some league wide conspiracy to have certain teams win.

That stance is beyond remedial. And those people cite a rogue referee, who lost his job, faced jail time because HE was caught. Notice he never threw up a red flag when he was there, did he? If he told this to the feds, and they thought it was legit ... we never heard of a huge sting operation from the FBI cracking down on the league's policy makers and referees.

I bet your dumb ass also believes aliens run the government or something. Keep dreaming Simple Jack. By the way, you're agreeing with someone who has the mental handicap to say because he knows MMA, he could physically take down a wild silver back gorilla. Yes, you both are THAT stupid.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes, because that's what it was. I don't however think the refs had some conspiracy to make the Heat win. Same goes for the Lakers / Kings series. Questionable calls? Sure. There ALWAYS will be questionable calls. I don't believe there was some league wide conspiracy to have certain teams win.

That stance is beyond remedial. And those people cite a rogue referee, who lost his job, faced jail time because HE was caught. Notice he never threw up a red flag when he was there, did he? If he told this to the feds, and they thought it was legit ... we never heard of a huge sting operation from the FBI cracking down on the league's policy makers and referees.

I bet your dumb ass, also believes aliens run the government or something. Keep dreaming Simple Jack. By the way, you're agreeing with someone who has the mental handicap to say because he knows MMA, he could physically take down a wild silver back gorilla. Yes, you both are THAT stupid.
:no: They are shape-shifting reptilians

[SwooshReturns]

:no: They are shape-shifting reptilians
My fault. King Coopa and his evil henchmen of lizard men run the government. Oh where is Mario, Luigi and Yoshi to save us when we need them?

:oldlol:

[LakersReign]

Yes, because that's what it was. I don't however think the refs had some conspiracy to make the Heat win. Same goes for the Lakers / Kings series. Questionable calls? Sure. There ALWAYS will be questionable calls. I don't believe there was some league wide conspiracy to have certain teams win.

That stance is beyond remedial. And those people cite a rogue referee, who lost his job, faced jail time because HE was caught. Notice he never threw up a red flag when he was there, did he? If he told this to the feds, and they thought it was legit ... we never heard of a huge sting operation from the FBI cracking down on the league's policy makers and referees.

I bet your dumb ass, also believes aliens run the government or something. Keep dreaming Simple Jack.


Like I said before in one of my previous posts, people ONLY want to bring this up as a way to say the Lakers were 'given" the title that year. The pathetic theory doesn't make any sense, nor has it ever made sense to begin with. Notice how those same people have nothing to say about the Horry foul on Steve Nash, that ultimately sent the Spurs to the Finals. But no...no....no...the league wasn't rigged then. It's ONLY supposedly rigged when the Lakers win....right?!:rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

My fault. King Coopa and his evil henchmen of lizard men run the government. Oh where is Mario, Luigi and Yoshi to save us when we need them?

:oldlol:
http://stargods.org/ReptilianAgenda.jpg

[Yanch856]

Like I said before in one of my previous posts, people ONLY want to bring this up as a way to say the Lakers were 'given" the title that year. The pathetic theory doesn't make any sense, nor has it ever made sense to begin with. Notice how those same people have nothing to say about the Horry foul on Steve Nash, that ultimately sent the Spurs to the Finals. But no...no....no...the league wasn't rigged then. It's ONLY supposedly rigged when the Lakers win....right?!:rolleyes:

What an arrogant answer? So the world revolves ONLY around LA lakers?

It just so happens that some people rooted for Sacramento because they played a damn exciting brand of basketball. They were clearly the better team in that series, they were the people's champion.

BTW the lakers winning that series was a significant reason why Shaq and Kobe were scorned by the fans. They came across as a bunch of d*uches after that championship.

[LakersReign]

What an arrogant answer? So the world revolves ONLY around LA lakers?

It just so happens that some people rooted for Sacramento because they played a damn exciting brand of basketball. They were clearly the better team in that series, they were the people's champion.

BTW the lakers winning that series was a significant reason why Shaq and Kobe were scorned by the fans. They came across as a bunch of d*uches after that championship.

Just gotta love it how people on here don't actually read a post, but choose to respond to it anyway, then wanna turn right around and get mad when they make themselves look stupid. Laker fans have heard this drivel for the last 10 years. But NOBODY seems to want to say the league is supposedly rigged when the Lakers don't win a title. But the minute the Lakers win, oh it's supposedly rigged. Please.:rolleyes:

[Doranku]

I love how people always mention Game 6 being rigged for the Lakers but conveniently ignore that Game 5 was just as one-sided for the Kings. :oldlol:

[Replay32]

The Kings choked game 7 away at the foul line. That game shouldn't of even went into overtime. The kings opened the door for the lakers to win and the lakers made the big plays.

What was amazing about game 7 also was Shaq. Dude hits some clutch FT's in that game and was 11 for 15 from the line. He and kobe were clutch down the stretch of that game. The officiating was bad in a couple of games, but The Kings had game 7 at HOME. They should of beat the lakers, but missed way too many big FT's.

[Yanch856]

Just gotta love it how people on here don't actually read a post, but choose to respond to it anyway, then wanna turn right around and get mad when they make themselves look stupid. Laker fans have heard this drivel for the last 10 years. But NOBODY seems to want to say the league is supposedly rigged when the Lakers don't win a title. But the minute the Lakers win, oh it's supposedly rigged. Please.:rolleyes:

:facepalm What did I just say? That for some it's not about the Lakers winning, it's about Sacramento losing. Read your post - you mentioned the word lakers 3x, and kings 0. Who cares about the Lakers? The Kings deserved to win and should have won game 6/series/championship if it wasn't for the refs. For all the criticism C-Webb gets for choking in the big moment, his career defined by his time out with Michigan - Webber was a beast PF man. I watch him play and I think, goddam he should have a championship, he should be in the HOF. Yet he isn't, because of those cheating refs. What about Divoc? I would :applause: so hard to see him win it all. Ok maybe not Christie but what I mean is, you look at how arrogant Shaq was, calling them the Sacramento Queens. Sometimes you just want to see Shaq fall flat on his big fat face and lose to the underdogs.

[Yanch856]

The Kings choked game 7 away at the foul line. That game shouldn't of even went into overtime. The kings opened the door for the lakers to win and the lakers made the big plays.

What was amazing about game 7 also was Shaq. Dude hits some clutch FT's in that game and was 11 for 15 from the line. He and kobe were clutch down the stretch of that game. The officiating was bad in a couple of games, but The Kings had game 7 at HOME. They should of beat the lakers, but missed way too many big FT's.

:oldlol: Maybe if Shaq didn't step over the line every single time to shoot the freebies, cheat.

[Thorn]

This series has been argued about since 2002. Donaghy's assertion is rather weak given that everyone was already complaining about the series. Plus, this series was extremely difficult to officiate, given that

-Prime Shaq was involved and he's easily one of the most difficult if not the most difficult to officiate fairly. Throw in the fact that he was matched up against one of the all-time great floppers in Divac and the refs had their work cut out for them.

-Fisher and Horry were elite floppers

-The Kings talked to the refs and Arco Arena was the best home court advantage that year which swayed the refs' calls.

If you want to believe in a "rigged" series, go ahead. At the very worst it was rigged to go 7 instead of favoring one team. After Horry's 3 tied the series at 2-2, the calls in Games 5 and 6 were substantially worse against the team on the road. Game 7 was officiated fairly.

The Game 6 is the notorious game - highlighted by "27 FTs" and "Bibby's nose fouls Kobe". The Kings got in the penalty early on some 50/50 calls on Pollard. Bear in mind that 28 of those 40 FTs were taken by Shaq and Kobe, who were top 5 in drawing fouls. Bibby's nose fouling Kobe was an obvious missed call. However, that's the disadvantage of playing on the road. 50/50 calls usually go against you (of course I'm not saying Bibby's foul was a 50/50 call)

Game 5 had some awful calls as well. Shaq fouled out on a dubious loose ball foul call late in the 4th and somehow attempted only 1 FT. Webber + Divac had 19 combined. If you like to use FT disparity, Kings shot 33 while LA had 22. On Bibby's game winner, Webber crushed Fisher on a blatant moving pick. So LA had some complaints there.

Game 7 at SAC, LA wins 112-106 in OT. There is no reason why the Kings should have lost this game. They had a raucous crowd giving HC advantage and held a 9 point lead late in the third. But they went 2/20 from 3 and 16/30 from the line. This is a team that shot 75% from the line in the regular season and somehow they made barely over half. Shaq shot a better percentage from the line than SAC did. Everyone looked rattled except Bibby and it cost them.

So there were terrible calls both ways. But there's *always* terrible calls. Elite teams can fight through them. Even the "completely, obviously" rigged Game 6 came down to intentional fouls while the Kings only lost by 4. I think that the Kings were superior to the Lakers that year (if Peja was healthy this series probably wouldn't have come down to controversy) The Kings' mental weakness reared its ugly head and cost them. The Kings should've won Game 4 and certainly Game 7, but they failed to execute when it mattered it most.

The only reason why people are still harping on this is because it was the evil dynasty Lakers with arrogant personalities versus an exciting, up-and-coming team with great personalities and an extremely supportive crowd, which has fallen on hard times since 02. And not many people like the Lakers.

[PP34Deuce]

Chris Webber is what Lebron should no want to be. Chris Webber had potential to be GOAT PF.

Legit 6'10 245-250 pounds. Great jumper, post moves, rebounding when he wanted to, and even defensively could play above average while being a great scorer when he wanted to

Even when Webber was robbed of his athletiscm toward mid end of his career he still gave u 20 10 and 5.

[LakersReign]

The only reason why people are still harping on this is because it was the evil dynasty Lakers with arrogant personalities versus an exciting, up-and-coming team with great personalities and an extremely supportive crowd, which has fallen on hard times since 02.

EXACTLY!!!!:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Yanch856]

Chris Webber is what Lebron should no want to be. Chris Webber had potential to be GOAT PF.

Legit 6'10 245-250 pounds. Great jumper, post moves, rebounding when he wanted to, and even defensively could play above average while being a great scorer when he wanted to

Even when Webber was robbed of his athletiscm toward mid end of his career he still gave u 20 10 and 5.

There's karma though, if you believe in eventual justice. You look at the way Shaq/Kobe's careers turned out. I mean, there was a point in Kobe's career when he could have surpassed MJ. But around and after the Kings series, the perception about Kobe started to change; then the Denver incident happened. Then in 2004 the heavily favoured Lakers lost to Detroit. Shaq/Kobe split. Kobe's years of irrelevance. When they finally won with Gasol, Kobe wasn't the same player anymore. He never did overtake a finals game when it mattered the most. Then Dallas sweeped the Lakers.

[The_Yearning]

Pretty stupid comparision really as Lebron has hit game winners and come through in the clutch. He just hasn't done it enough in Miami apart from vs Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs. The finals is where he has to prove he can hit big shots he has proven time after time he can do it in the playoffs and regular season.

Is being a mod that important to you? Do you think it's a high status?

Just stop being a mod and speak what's in your heart. This guy post has been so neutral ever since that CPIII trade and got promoted to mod. Shooked.

We all now LBJ is a choker. He was never clutch.

[MasterDurant24]

Both.

[Droid101]

This series has been argued about since 2002. Donaghy's assertion is rather weak given that everyone was already complaining about the series. Plus, this series was extremely difficult to officiate, given that

-Prime Shaq was involved and he's easily one of the most difficult if not the most difficult to officiate fairly. Throw in the fact that he was matched up against one of the all-time great floppers in Divac and the refs had their work cut out for them.

-Fisher and Horry were elite floppers

-The Kings talked to the refs and Arco Arena was the best home court advantage that year which swayed the refs' calls.

If you want to believe in a "rigged" series, go ahead. At the very worst it was rigged to go 7 instead of favoring one team. After Horry's 3 tied the series at 2-2, the calls in Games 5 and 6 were substantially worse against the team on the road. Game 7 was officiated fairly.

The Game 6 is the notorious game - highlighted by "27 FTs" and "Bibby's nose fouls Kobe". The Kings got in the penalty early on some 50/50 calls on Pollard. Bear in mind that 28 of those 40 FTs were taken by Shaq and Kobe, who were top 5 in drawing fouls. Bibby's nose fouling Kobe was an obvious missed call. However, that's the disadvantage of playing on the road. 50/50 calls usually go against you (of course I'm not saying Bibby's foul was a 50/50 call)

Game 5 had some awful calls as well. Shaq fouled out on a dubious loose ball foul call late in the 4th and somehow attempted only 1 FT. Webber + Divac had 19 combined. If you like to use FT disparity, Kings shot 33 while LA had 22. On Bibby's game winner, Webber crushed Fisher on a blatant moving pick. So LA had some complaints there.

Game 7 at SAC, LA wins 112-106 in OT. There is no reason why the Kings should have lost this game. They had a raucous crowd giving HC advantage and held a 9 point lead late in the third. But they went 2/20 from 3 and 16/30 from the line. This is a team that shot 75% from the line in the regular season and somehow they made barely over half. Shaq shot a better percentage from the line than SAC did. Everyone looked rattled except Bibby and it cost them.

So there were terrible calls both ways. But there's *always* terrible calls. Elite teams can fight through them. Even the "completely, obviously" rigged Game 6 came down to intentional fouls while the Kings only lost by 4. I think that the Kings were superior to the Lakers that year (if Peja was healthy this series probably wouldn't have come down to controversy) The Kings' mental weakness reared its ugly head and cost them. The Kings should've won Game 4 and certainly Game 7, but they failed to execute when it mattered it most.

The only reason why people are still harping on this is because it was the evil dynasty Lakers with arrogant personalities versus an exciting, up-and-coming team with great personalities and an extremely supportive crowd, which has fallen on hard times since 02. And not many people like the Lakers.
:applause:

Best post I've ever read on the topic.

Five starred
bookmarked
repped
added to rss feed
friended
pinterested
sent flowers

[LakersReign]

:facepalm What did I just say? That for some it's not about the Lakers winning, it's about Sacramento losing. Read your post - you mentioned the word lakers 3x, and kings 0. Who cares about the Lakers? The Kings deserved to win and should have won game 6/series/championship if it wasn't for the refs. For all the criticism C-Webb gets for choking in the big moment, his career defined by his time out with Michigan - Webber was a beast PF man. I watch him play and I think, goddam he should have a championship, he should be in the HOF. Yet he isn't, because of those cheating refs. What about Divoc? I would :applause: so hard to see him win it all. Ok maybe not Christie but what I mean is, you look at how arrogant Shaq was, calling them the Sacramento Queens. Sometimes you just want to see Shaq fall flat on his big fat face and lose to the underdogs.

So....according to you, NOBODY cares about the Lakers and that's exactly why almost 10 years later they're STILL bringing this up....right?!:rolleyes:



Try again:no:

[WeGetRing2012]

Just gotta love it how people on here don't actually read a post, but choose to respond to it anyway, then wanna turn right around and get mad when they make themselves look stupid. Laker fans have heard this drivel for the last 10 years. But NOBODY seems to want to say the league is supposedly rigged when the Lakers don't win a title. But the minute the Lakers win, oh it's supposedly rigged. Please.:rolleyes:

Exactly no one brings up the awful officiating in Game 2 of the 2008 Finals vs the Celtics which the Lakers went down 2-0. And I am not saying that's the reason why we lost but we didn't get a fair shot in Game 2.

[WeGetRing2012]

There's karma though, if you believe in eventual justice. You look at the way Shaq/Kobe's careers turned out. I mean, there was a point in Kobe's career when he could have surpassed MJ. But around and after the Kings series, the perception about Kobe started to change; then the Denver incident happened. Then in 2004 the heavily favoured Lakers lost to Detroit. Shaq/Kobe split. Kobe's years of irrelevance. When they finally won with Gasol, Kobe wasn't the same player anymore. He never did overtake a finals game when it mattered the most. Then Dallas sweeped the Lakers.

:lol Kobe has been fine since the Kings series. If anything he has proven that he can fall but get back up which just adds to his legacy. What have the Kings done since the 2002 WCF???????

[Yanch856]

:lol Kobe has been fine since the Kings series. If anything he has proven that he can fall but get back up which just adds to his legacy. What have the Kings done since the 2002 WCF???????

Yeah he's been FINE. Not great though.

[Yanch856]

So....according to you, NOBODY cares about the Lakers and that's exactly why almost 10 years later they're STILL bringing this up....right?!:rolleyes:



Try again:no:

Lakersreign, how old are you?

You just misquoted me beyond the point of repair. :facepalm :bowdown:

What you inferred from my reply is NOT RIGHT.

But you get my point - Kings was better than Lakers in 2001-2002. Lakers fans have been dealing with this for 10yrs according to you.

[WeGetRing2012]

Yeah he's been FINE. Not great though.

:lol since 2002 Kobe has been to the Finals more than any other player in the league (excluding Fisher), won a MVP, set amazing scoring records that most likely will never be broken, won 2 FMVP's, has shown that he can win being the leader and won a Gold Medal in the Olympics.

Average :facepalm

[Yanch856]

:lol since 2002 Kobe has been to the Finals more than any other player in the league (excluding Fisher), won a MVP, set amazing scoring records that most likely will never be broken, won 2 FMVP's, has shown that he can win being the leader and won a Gold Medal in the Olympics.

Average :facepalm

That's my point - none of those accolades matter because they neither add or subtract from what we will remember Kobe as:

A great player, but quite not as great as Jordan.

And he was not as great as Jordan because he was too selfish, and he could not come up big in the crunch like Mike. Plus he r@ped in Denver.

[bagelred]

http://i41.tinypic.com/34xqn12.png

[BlackVVaves]

There's karma though, if you believe in eventual justice. You look at the way Shaq/Kobe's careers turned out. I mean, there was a point in Kobe's career when he could have surpassed MJ. But around and after the Kings series, the perception about Kobe started to change; then the Denver incident happened. Then in 2004 the heavily favoured Lakers lost to Detroit. Shaq/Kobe split. Kobe's years of irrelevance. When they finally won with Gasol, Kobe wasn't the same player anymore. He never did overtake a finals game when it mattered the most. Then Dallas sweeped the Lakers.

Kobe has more rings than anyone in the NBA right now, certainly more as a or THE focal point of the team.

Kobe isn't the same player anymore, because he's been in the league for 15+ years. 99.8% of players who are in the league for that long, putting that kind of stress on their body, spending 7 out of the last 10 years playing well into June, would NOT be averaging close to 29 points per game. Call him a chucker, selfish, what ever. The most ego driven, delusional player wouldn't be able to do that at that age, after that long, unless he was pretty damn good. REALLY damn good.

So this whole karma thing, I just don't understand your logic. I'm pretty certain most players would absolutely love Kobe's "karma."

[Eric Cartman]

http://i41.tinypic.com/34xqn12.png


What is this pic supposed to prove?

[Yanch856]

Kobe has more rings than anyone in the NBA right now, certainly more as a or THE focal point of the team.

Kobe isn't the same player anymore, because he's been in the league for 15+ years. 99.8% of players who are in the league for that long, putting that kind of stress on their body, spending 7 out of the last 10 years playing well into June, would NOT be averaging close to 29 points per game. Call him a chucker, selfish, what ever. The most ego driven, delusional player wouldn't be able to do that at that age, after that long, unless he was pretty damn good. REALLY damn good.

So this whole karma thing, I just don't understand your logic. I'm pretty certain most players would absolutely love Kobe's "karma."

What I mean man, is that, C-Webb, if he won that title, would be in serious considerations for the GOAT PF. Sacramento would have kept together for a few more runs, perhaps another championship. He could have been GOAT PF but it never fruitioned. Arguably the rigging of game 6 did it.

So, Karma comes round in a way to Kobe to marr him from achieving what he always wanted - to beat MJ. To be the GOAT. He won that championship, got the 3 peat, but became too arrogant. He kicked away Shaq, suffered 2-3 years of irrelevance, and by that time he was no longer the player he was. When he played in those celtics finals, he couldn't deliver. He showed that he was not the goat.

So eventual justice catches up with kObe.

[bagelred]

What is this pic supposed to prove?

Google knows all. :bowdown: Long live the Google. :bowdown:

[NumberSix]

Not really, if Kings hit their free-throws in the 4th quarter of game 7 this wouldn't of been an issue.
Yeah, if you completely ignore the fact that there never should have been a game 6, let alone game 7. Kings legitimately won that series in 5 games.

I have to admit, at the time I was a total Lakers homer and honestly didn't care and was even like "fcuk 'em", but now that I'm 10 years older, my perspective is very different.

[Extempo]

I don't know but the 2006 Finals was settled by the refs, no doubt about it.

[vert48]

Yeah, if you completely ignore the fact that there never should have been a game 6, let alone game 7. Kings legitimately won that series in 5 games.

I have to admit, at the time I was a total Lakers homer and honestly didn't care and was even like "fcuk 'em", but now that I'm 10 years older, my perspective is very different.You must have not watched game 5. It was as bad for the Lakers as game 6 was for the Kings. That entire series was reffed in order to make it get to 7 games. The Lakers were screwed in games 3 and 5, while the Kings were screwed in game 6. Game 7 was there for the Kings to win, and they choked. Live with it.

[The Iron Fist]

Deuce explained it. Discussion over. Nothing more to see here.

What does this have to do with anything? Tim Donaghy went to jail and there will forever be a stain on the NBA and it's officiating because of Game 6. Justify the rest however you want, but game 6 was one of the most disgusting/sad displays in sports history IMO and nearly destroyed the integrity of the game.
It has everything to do with it. Game 3 was part of the seven game series.

[The Iron Fist]

The number of free throws given is irrelevant. It's whether the FTs/calls given were actually legit? I'm not disagreeing with you or anything because I actually haven't seen that series. I just find it weird how people justify fair officiating with free throw numbers
I saw the series, as it happened and there were bad calls for both sides which includes why one team shot 20 more fts than the other team.


I find it weird that you can comment on something you've never seen.

[NumberSix]

You must have not watched game 5. It was as bad for the Lakers as game 6 was for the Kings. That entire series was reffed in order to make it get to 7 games. The Lakers were screwed in games 3 and 5, while the Kings were screwed in game 6. Game 7 was there for the Kings to win, and they choked. Live with it.
What do you mean "live with it"? lol :confusedshrug: MY TEAM ended up getting the win. It's just not satisfying when the games you win are due to half court shots AFTER the buzzer and blatantly rigged officiating.

[Lamar Odumbb]

Would like to point this out.

Game 6 was the most pivotal game of that series. If the sole reason was to ensure there was gonna be 6 games, then I sure as hell believe the rigging of game 6 was always going to end the Kings mentally in game 7.

If you want to go by the argument that the Lakers were ripped in game 5, well in actual fact, the biggest damage done was game 6. How do you mentally prepare for a game 7 after that abortion?

Wrong. It was game 4 that was the pivotal game. If Kings didn't choke that game away, they are up 3-1.

After the kings choked game 4 away, the NBA had to step in and rig game 5 because if the Lakers won game 5, the series would be over in 6 with Lakers winning 4-2. After the NBA rigged game 5 in favor of the Kings, they had to step in and rig game 6 for the Lakers. You know why, because nobody on earrth would watch a Lakers/ Nets or Kings/Nets Finals. The NBA wanted to maximize ratings, exposure, and hype around a game 7 to makeup for the boring Finals coming up. In fact, the Lakers/nets 2002 finals is one of the lowest rated ratings ever. i think only the 2007 Finals with Lebron cavs/Spurs were lower.

[SavageMode]

If a poster has a picture of Kobe or a username with Kobe in it, they are automatically irrelevant to me... they all say the same things.. wouldnt be surprised if Kobe himself is paying like 10-20 people online to suck his dick virtually. It was clearly rigged and in the news. End of story.. only insecure Laker fans would disagree. Next.

[SavageMode]

http://i41.tinypic.com/34xqn12.png
This. Next.

[Simple Jack]

The people trying to justify it by saying they were in a position to win game 7 but didn't pull through can't honestly believe that. It shouldn't take this travesty happening to your team personally before you can comprehend this issue but it seems as though that's the only way.

[FindingTim]

SavageMode- nice work! :cheers:

[chazzy]

The people trying to justify it by saying they were in a position to win game 7 but didn't pull through can't honestly believe that. It shouldn't take this travesty happening to your team personally before you can comprehend this issue but it seems as though that's the only way.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233197

[LakersReign]

Lakersreign, how old are you?

You just misquoted me beyond the point of repair. :facepalm :bowdown:

What you inferred from my reply is NOT RIGHT.

But you get my point - Kings was better than Lakers in 2001-2002. Lakers fans have been dealing with this for 10yrs according to you.


I'm old enough to recognize when an idiot(yanch856) like you is completely full of sh*t, ranting on and on and on and on, saying nothing, hoping to sound intelligent to other idiots just like you:sleeping

Any more questions?:applause:

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol this topic again... Id say the Lakers should be stripped of that NBA champion and the runner-up will have it. ^^