Rodman or Love?

[Dwade305]

Who you got on your team? 1 year from now ISH is asked the same question, will nostalgia be so far shoved up their ass and cloud their judgement?

[ReturnofJPR]

Are you kidding me? What do you think the R in my name stands for?

Jordan-Pippen-Rodman, been posting on here since the old board and website.

Rodman had a mean streak, all-world defender, was a lunatic, and could have won a Finals MVP.

Love is a gimmick player. Soft too...softer than the Worm at least. Most players are soft today compared to Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc.

[Tmuston Beltics]

Love .. Rodman is 50 years old

[blablabla]

A

Love is a gimmick player. Soft too...softer than the Worm at least. Most players are soft today compared to Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc.
that would be a nice front court

[Droid101]

Who you got on your team? 1 year from now ISH is asked the same question, will nostalgia be so far shoved up their ass and cloud their judgement?
If Rodman was on your team, you won. Fact.

Can't say the same for Love.

http://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image.png

Rodman

[Dwade305]

Any non Bulls fan can make an opinion here? I know 97bulls will come in here and ride on Worm's nutz.

First time I heard Love is a gimmick:roll: That is more suited for Blake Griffin. How the f*ck is Love soft again? He is known as being one of the biggest competitors in his short time in the L.

[Shepseskaf]

I don't think Love is soft, but its Rodman by a mile.

[FireDavidKahn]

Are you kidding me? What do you think the R in my name stands for?

Jordan-Pippen-Rodman, been posting on here since the old board and website.

Rodman had a mean streak, all-world defender, was a lunatic, and could have won a Finals MVP.

Love is a gimmick player. Soft too...softer than the Worm at least. Most players are soft today compared to Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc.
Love is soft?:oldlol:

WTF? He is anything but soft.

[stallionaire]

Love is hardly soft. Anyone who thinks this needs to watch him play. He's been described as a brick wall by anyone who's had to compete for boards with him. The kid puts up insane stats at boards to prove this.

Love has an absolute motor and he launches for the ball every second of the game. He shoves his defenders a ton and he gets calls for how rough he gets. The Miami game this year.. LeBron shoved Love hustling back to the other side of the court and Love responded by pushing him right back for an offensive rebound he got off a Wade brick.

Also.. he steps on faces.

[Yanch856]

The only comparable attribute is rebounding.

But I have Rodman until Love wins 5 chips :oldlol:

Not surprised this thread is one starred.

[ReturnofJPR]

All I said is Love was soft compared to this guy:

http://laybacklarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Dennis-Rodman.jpg

And I'm sticking to it. Is he soft compared to other players in today's NBA, certainly not.

[Dwade305]

Nice picture with the ref. Such a hard ass cross-dresser.

[Yanch856]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RaOrchOImw8/S1C78HkeZtI/AAAAAAAAcZA/jOHDxV2HZOU/s400/Dennis%2BRodman.jpg

[stallionaire]

The only comparable attribute is rebounding.

But I have Rodman until Love wins 5 chips :oldlol:

Not surprised this thread is one starred.

Jordan, Pippen, and Love :D

[ReturnofJPR]

Nice picture with the ref. Such a hard ass cross-dresser.

Don't let your thong ride up too high on ya, pal! Just because your thread is an epic failure and getting one-starred left & right doesn't mean that you aren't capable of creating a quality thread. Oh, wait...that is exactly what it means!

Alonzo Mourning & Karl Malone will agree with me.

[JohnnySic]

Love is the better player pretty easily.

But this is ISH; I could compare Rodman to Karl Malone and people would still say Rodman. :facepalm

[ReturnofJPR]

Love is the better player pretty easily.

But this is ISH; I could compare Rodman to Karl Malone and people would still say Rodman. :facepalm

Exactly. It is ISH. Just how people claim Rondo is in the same ballpark with Westbrook or Deron Williams, it's absurd!!

[Miserio]

It depends on your team. If you don't have a primary scorer then Love, if you do have 1 or 2, I would easily pick Rodman who could shut down anyone and give you 16 rebounds a game.

[Bigsmoke]

Love if you need a superstar to build around

Rodman if u already have a championship team in place.

[stallionaire]

Love is forced to score, he would be as good of a complementary player if he wasn't on the perimeter shooting all those nice 3s.

You could expect him averaging an extra rebound or two if he got away from downtown shooting.

[Yanch856]

Exactly. It is ISH. Just how people claim Rondo is in the same ballpark with Westbrook or Deron Williams, it's absurd!!

Absurd? Bet you weren't saying that when Rondo was owning the cavs hard in the playoffs.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-IL721_0511th_DV_20100511160038.jpg

[Dwade305]

Exactly. It is ISH. Just how people claim Rondo is in the same ballpark with Westbrook or Deron Williams, it's absurd!!
:lol What a joke this guy is. Rondo>Rodman btw too buddy. IDK what kind of point you are trying to make comparing a glue guy(GOAT glue guy maybe?:bowdown: ) to an all star pg.

[2LeTTeRS]

:lol What a joke this guy is. Rondo>Rodman btw too buddy. IDK what kind of point you are trying to make comparing a glue guy(GOAT glue guy maybe?:bowdown: ) to an all star pg.

NEWSFLASH - Rodman was an all-star too. Twice. While not scoring 10 points a game either year.

[Whoah10115]

Are you kidding me? What do you think the R in my name stands for?

Jordan-Pippen-Rodman, been posting on here since the old board and website.

Rodman had a mean streak, all-world defender, was a lunatic, and could have won a Finals MVP.

Love is a gimmick player. Soft too...softer than the Worm at least. Most players are soft today compared to Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc.



Your post is so stupid. Kevin Love is maybe the toughest player in the league.

Besides, Dennis Rodman was considered a tease by a lot of people. I.E. more talk than tough. I'm not agreeing with any of it, or picking either player. I'm just saying your post is stupid.



And who the hell cares what the R in your name stands for?

[ReturnofJPR]

Your post is so stupid. Kevin Love is maybe the toughest player in the league.

Besides, Dennis Rodman was considered a tease by a lot of people. I.E. more talk than tough. I'm not agreeing with any of it, or picking either player. I'm just saying your post is stupid.



And who the hell cares what the R in your name stands for?

What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!

[Whoah10115]

What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!



:(

[dbugz]

Dennis Rodman is so damn overrated on this board :facepalm

I'm not saying that Love > Rodman but seeing all these reactions about how insanely good Rodman is just :facepalm

[ReturnofJPR]

:(

Just a quote from Billy Madison, :cheers:

[JohnnySic]

Dennis Rodman is so damn overrated on this board

I'm not saying that Love > Rodman but seeing all these reactions about how insanely good Rodman is just
Its ironic, but Rodman didn't get this type of heady praise while he was playing. He was seen as an excellent role player, nothing more. In fact, some saw him as more headache than he was worth. Yet somehow, since he stopped playing, his "legend" has grown and surpassed the real thing. Its just silly.

[JellyBean]

Rodman of course. Rodman had the ability to pay defense and rebound. K-Love can score but he doesn't play defense. Plus Rodman was the master of the mindgame. He coulkd take u out of a game just by standing next to you.

[97 bulls]

Its ironic, but Rodman didn't get this type of heady praise while he was playing. He was seen as an excellent role player, nothing more. In fact, some saw him as more headache than he was worth. Yet somehow, since he stopped playing, his "legend" has grown and surpassed the real thing. Its just silly.
Like hell he wasn't. While he did have some off thee court issues, rodman was highly respected when he played. He was routinely one of the best rebounders and defenders in the league. And the man was a winner.

Oh and id pick rodman over love.

[sbw19]

Depends on my team. Prime Jordan or Kobe? I want Rodman. Prime Shaq/Duncan? Give me Love.

[Yanch856]

Its ironic, but Rodman didn't get this type of heady praise while he was playing. He was seen as an excellent role player, nothing more. In fact, some saw him as more headache than he was worth. Yet somehow, since he stopped playing, his "legend" has grown and surpassed the real thing. Its just silly.

Maybe you should tell this to the good-for-nothing committee which nominated Rodman into the hall of fame, of all places. Clearly he is overrated and a headache. Obviously by this comparison Love is going to be a first ballot HOFer no doubt.

[Droid101]

Maybe you should tell this to the good-for-nothing committee which nominated Rodman into the hall of fame, of all places. Clearly he is overrated and a headache. Obviously by this comparison Love is going to be a first ballot HOFer no doubt.
Are you a joke?

Rodman was the greatest rebounder of all time (Yes, better than Wilt) and greatest WINNER of all time not named Jordan/Magic/Bird.

Go read this and come back to me when you're educated:

http://skepticalsports.com/?p=112

[Yanch856]

:facepalm Goddamn are you not literate? No sense of sarcasm?


Are you a joke?

Rodman was the greatest rebounder of all time (Yes, better than Wilt) and greatest WINNER of all time not named Jordan/Magic/Bird.

Go read this and come back to me when you're educated:

http://skepticalsports.com/?p=112

[10x91= 5 Rings]

If Rodman is overrated......than Bird is just an overrated player too :lol

[rodman91]

Rodman was a star player since mid 90's. Never been a superstar though (even though he got more attention than many of them :oldlol: )

Rodman's defensive impact > Love's offensive impact.
Rodman's defensive versatility > Love's offensive versatility.

He won 2 DPOY when some of best defensive players were around. 7 rebounding titles. 7 defensive first team. He had great impact on rebounding & defense in title runs.

Arguably GOAT rebounder and one of the best defenders in NBA history.

Love can be greater one day if he adds his offense more than jump shooting but until then answer is NO.

[Droid101]

:facepalm Goddamn are you not literate? No sense of sarcasm?
Yes. Yes.

[Owl]

[QUOTE=Droid101]If Rodman was on your team, you won. Fact.

Can't say the same for Love.

http://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image.png

Rodman

[Psileas]

Love if you need a superstar to build around

Rodman if u already have a championship team in place.

This. Rodman is a perfect complimentary player, but he's unproven when it comes to playing for teams without valid superstars/leaders (Isiah, Dumars, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen, Shaq). Love is his own team's leader and is getting into discussions about the best PF in the league and, while he doesn't bring in the same things that Rodman did, don't you think that teams like the late 80's Pistons or the Bulls (maybe even the Spurs) would find a way to win championships with him instead of Rodman?

[Yanch856]

This. Rodman is a perfect complimentary player, but he's unproven when it comes to playing for teams without valid superstars/leaders (Isiah, Dumars, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen, Shaq). Love is his own team's leader and is getting into discussions about the best PF in the league and, while he doesn't bring in the same things that Rodman did, don't you think that teams like the late 80's Pistons or the Bulls (maybe even the Spurs) would find a way to win championships with him instead of Rodman?

So Kevin Love is proven as a leader/best PF in the league? :roll:

[rodman91]

This. Rodman is a perfect complimentary player, but he's unproven when it comes to playing for teams without valid superstars/leaders (Isiah, Dumars, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen, Shaq). Love is his own team's leader and is getting into discussions about the best PF in the league and, while he doesn't bring in the same things that Rodman did, don't you think that teams like the late 80's Pistons or the Bulls (maybe even the Spurs) would find a way to win championships with him instead of Rodman?

So Kevin Love gonna defend guys like Magic,Jordan,Shaq or Malone... :eek:

You can say goodbye to Jordan's second three peat.

[Yanch856]

Look man I'm not saying Rodman's the be all and end all, but to compare him to Kevin Love is an all time low :oldlol: A notch below Rodman stinking it up in Euro after retirement.

[LexiKhan]

In today's game Rodman would be ejected every game.

And defensive specialists in contending teams always get way overrated. It's not like the Bulls would be worse if Love played there instead of Rodman.

[b0bab0i]

In today's game Rodman would be ejected every game.

And defensive specialists in contending teams always get way overrated. It's not like the Bulls would be worse if Love played there instead of Rodman.
Actually they would. Love would take touches away from Jordan & Pippen. Love would also fight with Jordan. Did you see how Love reacted when Ridnour took the game winning shot instead of passing it to love?

Rodman > Love
By a mile too.

[rodman91]

In today's game Rodman would be ejected every game.

And defensive specialists in contending teams always get way overrated. It's not like the Bulls would be worse if Love played there instead of Rodman.

Love guarding Malone or Shaq? Besides he couldn't use this much shot in Bulls starting 5.

He would be lucky if he could shoot 10 per game.

[MasterDurant24]

On teams where they already have scorers and stars, like the Pistons and Bulls, Rodman. On a team with no scorers or stars, Love. Simple.

[Droid101]

And you can tell just how legitimate that measure is by how high Frank Brickowski rates. If Rodman was on your team and so was MJ and Pippen, or David Robinson, or Shaq, or the uber-deep Pistons then you won, is more a statement I could get behind.
God damn it, go read the link.

Fact 1: It's much more difficult to improve an already good team.

Fact 2: Dennis Rodman improved good teams more than any other player in history.

Check out the Bulls/Spurs/Pistons/Lakers when he played vs when he didn't. He made good teams even better.

Go read the goddamn link!!

[97 bulls]

God damn it, go read the link.

Fact 1: It's much more difficult to improve an already good team.

Fact 2: Dennis Rodman improved good teams more than any other player in history.

Check out the Bulls/Spurs/Pistons/Lakers when he played vs when he didn't. He made good teams even better.

Go read the goddamn link!!
The problem is they don't want to read the link. I ran into the same thing in another thread. Ignorance is bliss. They'd rather feel their right and be in the dark than admit a truth.

[Teanett]

kevin love leads his team to a .500 record over the span of 34 games and is suddenly considered a superstar?

up until now he has been as significant for team success as friggin hersey hawkins, goddammit!

:banghead:

[Kevin_Gamble]

Love is the better player pretty easily.

But this is ISH; I could compare Rodman to Karl Malone and people would still say Rodman. :facepalm

I would choose Rodman over Karl Malone, actually. Even minus scoring, Rodman was that good.

[Yanch856]

Yeah, I question love's real value to winning basketball too:

1. It seems like he's always padding his defensive rebound stats, jumping over his own teammates to get rebounds.
2. His offense game is not even as good as Pavlovich, or whoever that DOMINATOR on his team is - the Italian mafia guy. This guy is a lean mean killing machine man. All Love does is jack up 3s all day long! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Talk about token white guy offense.
3. Tell you the truth, the real reason why the Wolves are winning is Rubio, Dominator, and JJ barea. Good night.

[rodman91]

I would choose Rodman over Karl Malone, actually. Even minus scoring, Rodman was that good.

Malone was much better except defense & rebounding. (And he was still good to great at those)

[rodman91]

Yeah, I question love's real value to winning basketball too:

1. It seems like he's always padding his defensive rebound stats, jumping over his own teammates to get rebounds.
2. His offense game is not even as good as Pavlovich, or whoever that DOMINATOR on his team is - the Italian mafia guy. This guy is a lean mean killing machine man. All Love does is jack up 3s all day long! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Talk about token white guy offense.
3. Tell you the truth, the real reason why the Wolves are winning is Rubio, Dominator, and JJ barea. Good night.

Pekovic?

[Psileas]

So Kevin Love is proven as a leader/best PF in the league? :roll:

Uh, he's way closer to this title than Rodman ever was, sorry. No one is "proven" as the best PF in the league for the time being, but Love has already gone further than Rodman ever had, regardless of era. With Love healthy, when it's all said and done, there will be no comparison.


So Kevin Love gonna defend guys like Magic,Jordan,Shaq or Malone...

You can say goodbye to Jordan's second three peat.

Do you people even read, let alone remember, what you quote? :rolleyes:
Unfortunately for you, I already mentioned that Love brings different things than Rodman to the table. He's not the defender Rodman was, but he's going to contribute vastly more offensively, open defenses with his long range shot (in other words, he's going to keep Malone, Shaq and the rest busy defensively to a degree Rodman never even approached), plus he's still big enough to bang his body with the opposing bigs and he's going to grab a comparable number of rebounds (maybe even better, assuming he doesn't regress as much as Rodman did in multiple postseason series). Do you really think that the Bulls/Pistons/Spurs would not find a way to utilize a player who's already both among the best big shooters and the best rebounders that ever played the game and win championships with their existing roster + Love? I beg to completely disagree.

OMG, how could Love ever win a title with Dumars, Thomas, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, playing in the position of a guy that never broke 30 mpg with those teams? How could he replace 1997 playoff Rodman's 28.2 mpg, 4.2 ppg and 8.4 rpg? Rodman's 30.5 mpg and 8.3 rpg in the 1998 Finals? Since Rodman's defense will be missing, it's definite that Mr.Big Game Karl Malone would flat out burn them. The Bulls would be doomed with Jordan-Pippen-Love. :rolleyes:

[97 bulls]

In today's game Rodman would be ejected every game.

And defensive specialists in contending teams always get way overrated. It's not like the Bulls would be worse if Love played there instead of Rodman.
He'd adjust. Ron artest plays great physical defense. The same with bruce bowen. And how do the bulls not regress in rodmans absense? We saw how they'd fair in 95.

I also think its a shame to not give credit to rodman for malones play in the 97-98 finals. Its always "malone choked", or "malones not clutch". You tend to have bad games when you're being defended by a great defender.

[Teanett]

Uh, he's way closer to this title than Rodman ever was, sorry. No one is "proven" as the best PF in the league for the time being, but Love has already gone further than Rodman ever had, regardless of era. With Love healthy, when it's all said and done, there will be no comparison.



you cant be serious.
love has put up nice numbers on .200 teams.
nothing more.

[Psileas]

If Rodman was sooooo great and definitely better than Love, where's that colossal team success he enjoyed in his peak season (1992, still with Thomas, Dumars, Aguirre, Laimbeer, Chuck Daily on the bench)? How many championships did he win playing alongside one of the most dominant players ever, who, however, didn't exactly have the heart of a champion?

Not to mention of course the fact that Love is still younger than even rookie Rodman was. To Rodman's credit, he played great up to an advanced age, but if we're to compare tham at their respective ages, Love murders Rodman.

[Psileas]

you cant be serious.
love has put up nice numbers on .200 teams.
nothing more.

Not a good excuse. These TWolves, up to now, are a .500 team and, guess what, Love still produces at least as good numbers.
Face it, he's really good. He's going to be productive whether he plays for a scrub team or with a contending team. He still faces the same players. It's not as if, just because he played for a bad team, it's the same with coming from Sweden and not knowing how he'll fare against NBA players.

[Teanett]

If Rodman was sooooo great and definitely better than Love, where's that colossal team success he enjoyed in his peak season (1992, still with Thomas, Dumars, Aguirre, Laimbeer, Chuck Daily on the bench)? How many championships did he win playing alongside one of the most dominant players ever, who, however, didn't exactly have the heart of a champion?

Not to mention of course the fact that Love is still younger than even rookie Rodman was. To Rodman's credit, he played great up to an advanced age, but if we're to compare tham at their respective ages, Love murders Rodman.

you are crazy.
the 92 pisssed-ons won almost as many games as love did in his first three seasons combined.
btw, rodman has 5 rings too.

[rodman91]

Do you people even read, let alone remember, what you quote? :rolleyes:
Unfortunately for you, I already mentioned that Love brings different things than Rodman to the table. He's not the defender Rodman was, but he's going to contribute vastly more offensively, open defenses with his long range shot (in other words, he's going to keep Malone, Shaq and the rest busy defensively to a degree Rodman never even approached), plus he's still big enough to bang his body with the opposing bigs and he's going to grab a comparable number of rebounds (maybe even better, assuming he doesn't regress as much as Rodman did in multiple postseason series). Do you really think that the Bulls/Pistons/Spurs would not find a way to utilize a player who's already both among the best big shooters and the best rebounders that ever played the game and win championships with their existing roster + Love? I beg to completely disagree.

OMG, how could Love ever win a title with Dumars, Thomas, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, playing in the position of a guy that never broke 30 mpg with those teams? How could he replace 1997 playoff Rodman's 28.2 mpg, 4.2 ppg and 8.4 rpg? Rodman's 30.5 mpg and 8.3 rpg in the 1998 Finals? Since Rodman's defense will be missing, it's definite that Mr.Big Game Karl Malone would flat out burn them. The Bulls would be doomed with Jordan-Pippen-Love. :rolleyes:

All you care about stats. If Malone was able to produce as good as his regular season or better than that (which is almost certain with Love defending him) Bulls would have great trouble.

Bulls won in 6 game with a game winner. And Malone had trouble against Rodman. They weren't easy series.

The reason Rodman had lower stats than usual he played even tougher defense and got many calls or simply didn't risk to give some space to Malone's midrange jumper for getting rebounds.

All Kevin Love would bring is just more three point shots while Bulls getting murdered inside by every good to great powerforwards or centers.

There is a reason why Bulls signed up Rodman.

[Teanett]

Not a good excuse. These TWolves, up to now, are a .500 team and, guess what, Love still produces at least as good numbers.
Face it, he's really good. He's going to be productive whether he plays for a scrub team or with a contending team. He still faces the same players. It's not as if, just because he played for a bad team, it's the same with coming from Sweden and not knowing how he'll fare against NBA players.

so what if he produces numbers but his team dont win shit?
look at rubio, he doesnt have the big numbers but his play makes them win.

[Lord Leoshes]

Any non Bulls fan can make an opinion here? I know 97bulls will come in here and ride on Worm's nutz.

First time I heard Love is a gimmick:roll: That is more suited for Blake Griffin. How the f*ck is Love soft again? He is known as being one of the biggest competitors in his short time in the L.


Neither Love, nore Griffin can defend their own shadows. While Rodman could defend any position on the court. What he did to Zo in all those playoff games still give me nightmares. :rant

If its only scoring then i'll take anyone but Rodman. But if i want to win i'll take Rodman.

[Psileas]

you are crazy.
the 92 pisssed-ons won almost as many games as love did in his first three seasons combined.
btw, rodman has 5 rings too.

You're nuts. The Pistons that season also had more All-Stars/HOF'ers than Love's Timberwolves had in his whole career.
Rodman has 5 rings and Rodman played with 5 top-50 GOAT players (I'm not even including Kobe, they are taken from the original 50 GOAT list), including the guy most call the GOAT, the center some call the MDE, a PG most rank in their top-3/4 ever. Unless Love gets anywhere near the help Rodman did (honestly, we're talking about Robert Horry-like levels of help here), don't try to argue rings. Of course Rodman would win a lot more. It would make absolutely no sense if he didn't.

[97 bulls]

Uh, he's way closer to this title than Rodman ever was, sorry. No one is "proven" as the best PF in the league for the time being, but Love has already gone further than Rodman ever had, regardless of era. With Love healthy, when it's all said and done, there will be no comparison.



Do you people even read, let alone remember, what you quote? :rolleyes:
Unfortunately for you, I already mentioned that Love brings different things than Rodman to the table. He's not the defender Rodman was, but he's going to contribute vastly more offensively, open defenses with his long range shot (in other words, he's going to keep Malone, Shaq and the rest busy defensively to a degree Rodman never even approached), plus he's still big enough to bang his body with the opposing bigs and he's going to grab a comparable number of rebounds (maybe even better, assuming he doesn't regress as much as Rodman did in multiple postseason series). Do you really think that the Bulls/Pistons/Spurs would not find a way to utilize a player who's already both among the best big shooters and the best rebounders that ever played the game and win championships with their existing roster + Love? I beg to completely disagree.

OMG, how could Love ever win a title with Dumars, Thomas, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, playing in the position of a guy that never broke 30 mpg with those teams? How could he replace 1997 playoff Rodman's 28.2 mpg, 4.2 ppg and 8.4 rpg? Rodman's 30.5 mpg and 8.3 rpg in the 1998 Finals? Since Rodman's defense will be missing, it's definite that Mr.Big Game Karl Malone would flat out burn them. The Bulls would be doomed with Jordan-Pippen-Love. :rolleyes:
Love is nothing more than bill laimbeer playing in an era full of terrible bigs. And padding stats on a bad to mediocre team.

[Lord Leoshes]

Love is nothing more than bill laimbeer playing in an era full of terrible bigs. And padding stats on a bad to mediocre team.

Except that Bill wasnt as good a rebounder, but was a much better defender.

[97 bulls]

You're nuts. The Pistons that season also had more All-Stars/HOF'ers than Love's Timberwolves had in his whole career.
Rodman has 5 rings and Rodman played with 5 top-50 GOAT players (I'm not even including Kobe, they are taken from the original 50 GOAT list), including the guy most call the GOAT, the center some call the MDE, a PG most rank in their top-3/4 ever. Unless Love gets anywhere near the help Rodman did (honestly, we're talking about Robert Horry-like levels of help here), don't try to argue rings. Of course Rodman would win a lot more. It would make absolutely no sense if he didn't.
And rodman was the pistons best player in 92. I also havnt seen anyone argue that the players rodman played with were great. But rodman contributed a great deal to those team s championship runs.

[97 bulls]

Except that Bill Was a good defender.
That too.

[Psileas]

All you care about stats. If Malone was able to produce as good as his regular season or better than that (which is almost certain with Love defending him) Bulls would have great trouble.

Bulls won in 6 game with a game winner. And Malone had trouble against Rodman. They weren't easy series.

The reason Rodman had lower stats than usual he played even tougher defense and got many calls or simply didn't risk to give some space to Malone's midrange jumper for getting rebounds.

All Kevin Love would bring is just more three point shots while Bulls getting murdered inside by every good to great powerforwards or centers.


All you do is view the series as it happened, instead of how it could happen with Love in Rodman's place. Yes, it was a close series with some game winners. Now, how about thinking that maybe it wouldn't be such a close series if a much better offensive player than Rodman took his place and that his offensive output might be more important than the degree Rodman limited Malone (and it wasn't only Rodman, either)? Not to mention that Malone upping his regular season output is by itself a big IF, since Malone's playoff efficiency fell even when he played against lesser defenders than Rodman.

No team the Bulls faced had both a very capable/All Star PF and a very capable/All-Star center and therefore, I still wouldn't bet the Bulls would get murdered inside. What would happen would be, the opponent star bigs would get more efficient offensively, but they'd get tired more defensively. Plus, let's not pretend that Love still isn't a 15 rpg guy, so it's not as if he's another Bargnani or Cliff Robinson, roaming in the corners and taking long shots all the time.


There is a reason why Bulls signed up Rodman.

Instead of who? Was there anyone else as good as Love available and as accessible as Rodman and I missed it?

[Teanett]

You're nuts. The Pistons that season also had more All-Stars/HOF'ers than Love's Timberwolves had in his whole career.
Rodman has 5 rings and Rodman played with 5 top-50 GOAT players (I'm not even including Kobe, they are taken from the original 50 GOAT list), including the guy most call the GOAT, the center some call the MDE, a PG most rank in their top-3/4 ever. Unless Love gets anywhere near the help Rodman did (honestly, we're talking about Robert Horry-like levels of help here), don't try to argue rings. Of course Rodman would win a lot more. It would make absolutely no sense if he didn't.
yes. that's the point! rodman got it done! a proven winner!
love's best season is 17 wins. i like kevin love but talk back to me when he does something significant.

[Yanch856]

yes. that's the point! rodman got it done! a proven winner!
love's best season is 17 wins. i like kevin love but talk back to me when he does something significant.

Amen. KLove has a good young team. You guys need to chill. May be in a few years, when Love and Wolves gets into the second round of the playoffs, we can come back to this MAYBE, but right now, GTFO hahahahaha:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Psileas]

so what if he produces numbers but his team dont win shit?
look at rubio, he doesnt have the big numbers but his play makes them win.

Every team has its weak spots where the addition of a solid player would transform them. Who was Minny's starting PG last season? Ridnour? Their starting center? Milicic? No wonder they became visibly better with Rubio and the improved Pekovic as starters.
How did Love's productivity suffer in this new team? How much did he have to sacrifice?

[Teanett]

No team the Bulls faced had both a very capable/All Star PF and a very capable/All-Star center and therefore, I still wouldn't bet the Bulls would get murdered inside.


you dont know your shit, silly boy!
they played shaq/ho grant and got murdered inside without rodman.
with rodman, they swept them.
...and beat mourning, ewing/oakley and kemp to win the title.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Malone was much better except defense & rebounding. (And he was still good to great at those)

Rodman beats Malone at passing as well, imo.

And it's not like Rodman was completely incapable of scoring, except he was crazy and decided along the way that he's going to go at it without scoring at all. If Rodman had the same career, but 10-12 ppg., we would be thinking about him very differently.

[Psileas]

And rodman was the pistons best player in 92. I also havnt seen anyone argue that the players rodman played with were great. But rodman contributed a great deal to those team s championship runs.

He was never the go-to guy, the franchise player as long as the Pistons or anyone else won titles. That's the whole point. Not even once did Rodman prove his supposed superstardom by doing the same things an NBA superstar is expected to do in order to be considered an elite, a real all-time great. Rodman was the ultimate auxiliary player. Never the ultimate cog.



yes. that's the point! rodman got it done! a proven winner!
love's best season is 17 wins. i like kevin love but talk back to me when he does something significant.

Nope, Rodman's team got it done. The same way Sam Jones' team got it done, but this doesn't make him better than Jerry West. Was Rodman a winner? Yes. Was he a proven winner? If we're to judge on NBA superstar terms, no, he never did this.

Nope, Love's best season is not "17 wins". It is what he offers to this season's Timberwolves.

[ZenMaster]

Yeah, I question love's real value to winning basketball too:

1. It seems like he's always padding his defensive rebound stats, jumping over his own teammates to get rebounds.
2. His offense game is not even as good as Pavlovich, or whoever that DOMINATOR on his team is - the Italian mafia guy. This guy is a lean mean killing machine man. All Love does is jack up 3s all day long! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Talk about token white guy offense.
3. Tell you the truth, the real reason why the Wolves are winning is Rubio, Dominator, and JJ barea. Good night.

Most of your post is very ignorant.

1st point is horrible and it's something created on ISH, Love is a great rebounder, try and watch only him for an entire game and you'll see it.

Jumping over teammates smh, when was the last time Love jumped over anybody?

[97 bulls]

you dont know your shit, silly boy!
they played shaq/ho grant and got murdered inside without rodman.
with rodman, they swept them.
...and beat mourning, ewing/oakley and kemp to win the title.
Indiana had the davis boys (dale and antonio) and rik smits

The heat had mourning and pj brown as well as ike autin

Washington had webber, juwan howard and muresan

The knicks had ewing and oakley

Atlanta had mutombo and laetner and grant long.

Shaq and grant.

Even utah with malone, carr, and ostertag. Ostartag was a taller kendrick perkins.

Most teams today don't even have 1 quality big. If rodman played today, he easily get 20-22 rebounds a night

[Teanett]

He was never the go-to guy, the franchise player as long as the Pistons or anyone else won titles. That's the whole point. Not even once did Rodman prove his supposed superstardom by doing the same things an NBA superstar is expected to do in order to be considered an elite, a real all-time great. Rodman was the ultimate auxiliary player. Never the ultimate cog.



Nope, Rodman's team got it done. The same way Sam Jones' team got it done, but this doesn't make him better than Jerry West. Was Rodman a winner? Yes. Was he a proven winner? If we're to judge on NBA superstar terms, no, he never did this.

Nope, Love's best season is not "17 wins". It is what he offers to this season's Timberwolves.

as of now 17 wins is his best season...
wich makes him a fukkin pathetic "go-to guy", if i was to argue in your way of thinking, but i wont, because a teams best player does not have to be a "go-to guy".
:rolleyes:
anyway, you are full of shit.
let's talk about this again when it's all said and done.
we might as well have the same discussion about blake griffin and bill russell.:facepalm

[97 bulls]

He was never the go-to guy, the franchise player as long as the Pistons or anyone else won titles. That's the whole point. Not even once did Rodman prove his supposed superstardom by doing the same things an NBA superstar is expected to do in order to be considered an elite, a real all-time great. Rodman was the ultimate auxiliary player. Never the ultimate cog.



Nope, Rodman's team got it done. The same way Sam Jones' team got it done, but this doesn't make him better than Jerry West. Was Rodman a winner? Yes. Was he a proven winner? If we're to judge on NBA superstar terms, no, he never did this.

Nope, Love's best season is not "17 wins". It is what he offers to this season's Timberwolves.
He was the guy the bulls and pistons went to to stop go to guys. And he succeeded

[Teanett]

He was the guy the bulls and pistons went to to stop go to guys. And he succeeded

great point.

[Psileas]

you dont know your shit, silly boy!
they played shaq/ho grant and got murdered inside without rodman.
with rodman, they swept them.
...and beat mourning, ewing/oakley and kemp to win the title.

Mourning: Played alongside Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Both average.

Oakley, apart from having being out for a good part of the season, was neither in his prime, nor a high impact big man. Hell, he played and had his best seasons for the '86-'88 Bulls, yet people don't even mention him as a star player playing alongside Jordan. And he wasn't. But at least he was playing at a higher level than his '95 self did.

Shaq had Grant practically for only 1 game and he with Penny were the only players that mattered from the Magic's part. Then, Grant got injured, so...

Kemp? Kemp was probably the '96 Finals' best player (just imagine, the guy won a few Finals' MVP votes despite coming from the losing team!), and he had no valuable center next to him. Rodman performed fine offensively (for his standards) and in rebounding, but defensively, Kemp burned him quite a bit.

[97 bulls]

as of now 17 wins is his best season...
wich makes him a fukkin pathetic "go-to guy", if i was to argue in your way of thinking, but i wont, because a teams best player does not have to be a "go-to guy".
:rolleyes:
anyway, you are full of shit.
let's talk about this again when it's all said and done.
we might as well have the same discussion about blake griffin and bill russell.:facepalm
Lol rodman has improved more team wins than 17. I beleiev the spurs in 95 were 8-9 without rodman, and 40-9 with him.

[rodman91]

Mourning: Played alongside Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Both average.

Oakley, apart from having being out for a good part of the season, was neither in his prime, nor a high impact big man. Hell, he played and had his best seasons for the '86-'88 Bulls, yet people don't even mention him as a star player playing alongside Jordan. And he wasn't. But at least he was playing at a higher level than his '95 self did.

Shaq had Grant practically for only 1 game and he with Penny were the only players that mattered from the Magic's part. Then, Grant got injured, so...

Kemp? Kemp was probably the '96 Finals' best player (just imagine, the guy won a few Finals' MVP votes despite coming from the losing team!), and he had no valuable center next to him. Rodman performed fine offensively (for his standards) and in rebounding, but defensively, Kemp burned him quite a bit.

Just think about what Kemp would do a defender like Love then.

[Teanett]

Mourning: Played alongside Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Both average.

Oakley, apart from having being out for a good part of the season, was neither in his prime, nor a high impact big man. Hell, he played and had his best seasons for the '86-'88 Bulls, yet people don't even mention him as a star player playing alongside Jordan. And he wasn't. But at least he was playing at a higher level than his '95 self did.

Shaq had Grant practically for only 1 game and he with Penny were the only players that mattered from the Magic's part. Then, Grant got injured, so...

Kemp? Kemp was probably the '96 Finals' best player (just imagine, the guy won a few Finals' MVP votes despite coming from the losing team!), and he had no valuable center next to him. Rodman performed fine offensively (for his standards) and in rebounding, but defensively, Kemp burned him quite a bit.

hahaha.
you're just trying too hard. whatever you say might be a valid arguement had bulls LOST to any of these teams, but they didnt.
what about webber and howard? too young?
smits and the davis boys? just your average all-stars?
mutombo? too african?
malone? overrated, not that good anyway?

[97 bulls]

Mourning: Played alongside Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Both average.

Oakley, apart from having being out for a good part of the season, was neither in his prime, nor a high impact big man. Hell, he played and had his best seasons for the '86-'88 Bulls, yet people don't even mention him as a star player playing alongside Jordan. And he wasn't. But at least he was playing at a higher level than his '95 self did.

Shaq had Grant practically for only 1 game and he with Penny were the only players that mattered from the Magic's part. Then, Grant got injured, so...

Kemp? Kemp was probably the '96 Finals' best player (just imagine, the guy won a few Finals' MVP votes despite coming from the losing team!), and he had no valuable center next to him. Rodman performed fine offensively (for his standards) and in rebounding, but defensively, Kemp burned him quite a bit.
Lol kurt thomas played an inteegral role on last years bulls and the blazers this year as the oldest player in the league.

Im sure as a laker fan you remember what 37 year old pj brown did to the lakers in 08 with the celtics.

The kemp thing neeeds to stop. Longley defended kemp and most of kemps point were in garbage time. When the bulls had the game well in hand. And rodman visibly took him out of his game when he was on him

[TheBigVeto]

Love because he's not racist and he can shoot the ball.

[97 bulls]

hahaha.
you're just trying too hard. whatever you say might be a valid arguement had bulls LOST to any of these teams, but they didnt.
what about webber and howard? too young?
smits and the davis boys? just your average all-stars?
mutombo? too african?
malone? overrated, not that good anyway?
Lol

[Psileas]

as of now 17 wins is his best season...
wich makes him a fukkin pathetic "go-to guy", if i was to argue in your way of thinking, but i wont, because a teams best player does not have to be a "go-to guy".
:rolleyes:
anyway, you are full of shit.
let's talk about this again when it's all said and done.
we might as well have the same discussion about blake griffin and bill russell.:facepalm

Deal dude, I'll be here waiting for Rodman to win as the #1 cog of his team. I'll also be waiting to see discussions about Rodman as being arguably the best PF in his league. And I'll also be waiting till Love plays alongside a duo of Jordan/Pippen caliber. Till now, the gauge writes 0, 0 and 0 such cases respectively and I don't really see that much changing in the future.

Yeah, whatever, Griffin and Russell, because Rodman can even be mentioned in the same breath with Russell, as is the case with Love vs Griffin. But, for some of you, apparently he should. Not surprised at all, since in the simple mind of you, the quality of a go-to-guy has to be reflected in the number of wins in his team. Probably next time you may also argue that '87 Moncrief was better than '87 Jordan and that '63 Howell was better than '63 Wilt. :facepalm

[97 bulls]

57 year old pj brown


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISo15DeaCkI

Lol

[Gifted Mind]

I would choose Rodman over Karl Malone, actually.
:facepalm
Felt like arguing however reading this comment made it seem so worthless to do so.

[Psileas]

Just think about what Kemp would do a defender like Love then.

If Rodman had some moderate offensive success against Kemp, just think what Love would do to him.


hahaha.
you're just trying too hard. whatever you say might be a valid arguement had bulls LOST to any of these teams, but they didnt.
what about webber and howard? too young?
smits and the davis boys? just your average all-stars?
mutombo? too african?
malone? overrated, not that good anyway?

LOL. The point is that the Bulls would likely not lose to any of these teams, since none of them had the big man depth to cause any serious trouble to them. Smits? Mutombo? Good to very good centers, but not elite centers. Malone? Who helped him in his duties under the basket? Ostertag? Foster? You could have these guys play in an empty gym and still not make impact.


Lol kurt thomas played an inteegral role on last years bulls and the blazers this year as the oldest player in the league.

Im sure as a laker fan you remember what 37 year old pj brown did to the lakers in 08 with the celtics.

The kemp thing neeeds to stop. Longley defended kemp and most of kemps point were in garbage time. When the bulls had the game well in hand. And rodman visibly took him out of his game when he was on him

Stop cherry-picking. I don't care whether a random finished player made a couple of good plays when it mattered. Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown were not threats for a serious opponent, period.

[Teanett]

Deal dude, I'll be here waiting for Rodman to win as the #1 cog of his team. I'll also be waiting to see discussions about Rodman as being arguably the best PF in his league. And I'll also be waiting till Love plays alongside a duo of Jordan/Pippen caliber. Till now, the gauge writes 0, 0 and 0 such cases respectively and I don't really see that much changing in the future.

Yeah, whatever, Griffin and Russell, because Rodman can even be mentioned in the same breath with Russell, as is the case with Love vs Griffin. But, for some of you, apparently he should. Not surprised at all, since in the simple mind of you, the quality of a go-to-guy has to be reflected in the number of wins in his team. Probably next time you may also argue that '87 Moncrief was better than '87 Jordan and that '63 Howell was better than '63 Wilt. :facepalm

the real question is 'would kevin love on the bulls make them better than rodman on the bulls?' and i say no.
'would kevin love make the pistons better than rodman?' i say no.

[Psileas]

:facepalm
Felt like arguing however reading this comment made it seem so worthless to do so.

Funny thing is, the rest of the Rodman boys didn't bother to disagree, either. Seems like Jordan had incredibly much help in his hands, after all. A guy supposedly much better than Love and arguably better than Malone, plus a SF I've seen a couple of guys (including 97 Bulls) compare to Larry Bird.

Hmm, according to the Rodman boys, Pippen might actually be better than Bird, as well, since he was a more "proven winner" (6 rings vs 3, Bird never won more than 67 games, Pippen had seasons winning 72, 69 and 67).

[Teanett]

I don't care whether a random finished player made a couple of good plays when it mattered.

that's why you marvel at love's big numbers on a 17-win team i guess.

[Teanett]

Hmm, according to the Rodman boys, Pippen might actually be better than Bird, as well, since he was a more "proven winner" (6 rings vs 3, Bird never won more than 67 games, Pippen had seasons winning 72, 69 and 67).

at least their accomplishments are more comparable to each other than one guy winning 5 rings and the other winning 17 games.

[Psileas]

the real question is 'would kevin love on the bulls make them better than rodman on the bulls?' and i say no.
'would kevin love make the pistons better than rodman?' i say no.

No, here's the real question (the OP):



Who you got on your team?

For some reason, you assumed that "our team" has to be the '96-'98 Bulls, whereas it's way more possible that a random team isn't going to be as good as them. It's going to be some team like the 2012 Wolves, a 50% team.

You also ignored that I argued that Rodman might actually be more valuable if I already have a team with enough weapons to contend for a title. But, to build a team from scratch, there's no way in hell I'm picking Rodman over Love.

[Psileas]

that's why you marvel at love's big numbers on a 17-win team i guess.

What's that supposed to mean? You want to make a case that PJ Brown and Kurt Thomas were high impact big men? Go on, I'm hearing you...

[Mr. Incredible]

Bad comparison.

Rodman all day though.

[Teanett]

But, to build a team from scratch, there's no way in hell I'm picking Rodman over Love.

fair enough.
i'd pick rodman. he was such a unique player who, besides delivering the stats, just gets up the energy level of the whole team.
i'd worry about offense later (shooting that is, because worm was a good offensive player).

[Psileas]

at least their accomplishments are more comparable to each other than one guy winning 5 rings and the other winning 17 games.

Who cares about accomplishments? This is a "who you got" question. Career accomplishments have little if anything to do with it, and this is what you ignore. Now, if you want to add such randomness, I'll also mention that Love has already infinitely more accomplishments than Rodman had at the same age and since rings are that valuable to you, I WILL mention Horry's 7 rings once again. After all, you're not either willing or able to take things like quality of teammates/coaches into account.

[Teanett]

What's that supposed to mean? You want to make a case that PJ Brown and Kurt Thomas were high impact big men? Go on, I'm hearing you...

no, but until now, love has had very little impact.

[Psileas]

no, but until now, love has had very little impact.

Nice to hear. I hope the Timberwolves get rid of this scrub and send him to the Lakers as quickly as possible. Of course, getting players like Gasol and Bynum into this trade is out of the question, as Love has "very little impact"..

[rodman91]

Funny thing is, the rest of the Rodman boys didn't bother to disagree, either. Seems like Jordan had incredibly much help in his hands, after all. A guy supposedly much better than Love and arguably better than Malone, plus a SF I've seen a couple of guys (including 97 Bulls) compare to Larry Bird.

Hmm, according to the Rodman boys, Pippen might actually be better than Bird, as well, since he was a more "proven winner" (6 rings vs 3, Bird never won more than 67 games, Pippen had seasons winning 72, 69 and 67).

Why you are so bitter just because Kevin Love isn't better than Rodman?
Malone > Rodman. Nobody says nothing because it's not about discussion.

Sorry, Kevin Love isn't as good as his stats. He can't defend anybody, he doesn't have offensive game except shooting. Those are facts. And people choose arguably GOAT rebounder and one of the best defenders of all time over that.

You claim Bulls didn't face with good inside threat in championship runs... They have face 2nd or 3rd GOAT PF two time in finals. And Rodman was the main reason he struggled big time. Bulls faced with Shaquille O'neal. Bulls faced with Alonzo Mourning,Patrick Ewing,Chris Webber,Shawn Kemp in their good years.

[97 bulls]

Funny thing is, the rest of the Rodman boys didn't bother to disagree, either. Seems like Jordan had incredibly much help in his hands, after all. A guy supposedly much better than Love and arguably better than Malone, plus a SF I've seen a couple of guys (including 97 Bulls) compare to Larry Bird.

Hmm, according to the Rodman boys, Pippen might actually be better than Bird, as well, since he was a more "proven winner" (6 rings vs 3, Bird never won more than 67 games, Pippen had seasons winning 72, 69 and 67).
The only people that say jordan had no help is jordan only fans.

As far as pippen, yes I hold pippen in high regard. I've backed up my points with facts, stats, videos, and quotes from alltime greats. And everyone has their own opinion. I get involved when I read stupid post like pippen isn't a leader cuz he didn't lead the 94 or 95 bulls to a title. Or knock him for not winning a championship with the blazers as an almost 35yr old.


And nothing I've said is farfetched. Forthe instance. People say The bulls won in a weak era. Then explain why they were able to win 55 games in 94 without jordan playing before expansion in 96. Its cuz rodman, pippen, and kukoc were great players in theor own right that sacrificed personal glory for the good of the team. Im not gonna penalize them for that.

[Teanett]

Who cares about accomplishments? This is a "who you got" question. Career accomplishments have little if anything to do with it, and this is what you ignore. Now, if you want to add such randomness, I'll also mention that Love has already infinitely more accomplishments than Rodman had at the same age and since rings are that valuable to you, I WILL mention Horry's 7 rings once again. After all, you're not either willing or able to take things like quality of teammates/coaches into account.

let's put it this way: with pip/bird you compare two all-time greats who performed on the highest level the biggest stage.
with worm/love, you have one guy who performed at the highest level on the biggest stage and who is arguably the best at what he does EVER to a guy who MIGHT be considered a very good player IF his career goes in the right direction.

[97 bulls]

no, but until now, love has had very little impact.
Exactly. Which is why I don't understand this build a franchise around love nonsense. He's not singlehandely turning the wolves around. Rubio has had a huge hand in it too. What has love done to be considered a franchise player?

[Teanett]

Nice to hear. I hope the Timberwolves get rid of this scrub and send him to the Lakers as quickly as possible. Of course, getting players like Gasol and Bynum into this trade is out of the question, as Love has "very little impact"..

what are you so worked about?
until now love's team has won 22, 17, 17 and 17 (i know, i know...).
that is next to no impact. FACT!
gasol won 50 games with the griz.

[97 bulls]

what are you so worked about?
until now love's team has won 22, 17, 17 and 17 (i know, i know...).
that is next to no impact. FACT!
gasol won 50 games with the griz.
Lol 22, 17, 17, and 17? What about that guy says frnachise player?

[Psileas]

Why you are so bitter just because Kevin Love isn't better than Rodman?
Malone > Rodman. Nobody says nothing because it's not about discussion.
Sorry, Kevin Love isn't as good as his stats. He can't defend anybody, he doesn't have offensive game except shooting. Those are facts. And people choose arguably GOAT rebounder and one of the best defenders of all time over that.

If Love has no offensive game except shooting, cut his shooting and deal done. Easy to say, huh? Hey, if things were like this, I'd also argue that Malone had no scoring game apart from fade-aways and finishing fast breaks, Kareem had no scoring game apart from sky-hooks, etc. Matter of fact is, Love is a much-much better scorer and offensive player than Rodman, at a degree that it doesn't make it crazy at all to choose him over Rodman, especially if you are building a team from zero. Hell, there have been defenders at least at at Rodman's class, who were also much better offensive players and pretty good rebounders on their own right (Mourning, Ewing, etc), so if Rodman is supposedly better, let alone much better than Love, are we to suppose that Mourning (not even Hakeem, mind you) would be some kind of deity, better than probably any player playing today?
If a player worse than Rodman leads the Wolves to a 50% record, what do you think Mourning's Timberwolves would win? 55 games? 60?


You claim Bulls didn't face with good inside threat in championship runs... They have face 2nd or 3rd GOAT PF two time in finals. And Rodman was the main reason he struggled big time. Bulls faced with Shaquille O'neal. Bulls faced with Alonzo Mourning,Patrick Ewing,Chris Webber,Shawn Kemp in their good years.

No, the claim was that the Bulls didn't have to face teams with good enough frontlines in general. They beat Shaq without Grant. They beat Ewing with Oakley as their best PF. They beat Malone and Kemp with scrub big men next to them.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think there is a chance in hell that Phil or Jordan would want current Love over even the old Rodman who was a Bull. It would make a real difference. Say what you want about Rodman being a role player. He might be a role player in that...second ballot HOF, multiple DPOY, 7-8 time rebound leader, key player on three franchises best team ever to that point...kinda way.

He was a difference maker. A team simply would not play the same way without him. He played harder than anyone, he worked like few ever have, he was one of the smartest forwards in the league, he might be the best defender ever at either the 3 or the 4 depending on the moment, hes guarded 5 positions, he ran the floor as well as any big, he passed like a guard, and hes probably the greatest rebounder ever. You cant suit up next to Dennis Rodman and not go hard.

Guy was out there causing MVPs to spaz out and lose focus in the finals. Having guysl ike Zo get into personal matchups and destroy the flow of their offense. Perhaps drawing the most charges of the 90s. Going harder after a loose ball than anyone ever has.

I wouldnt trade Rodman for Love on any team I expected to do well. Id take him over Rodman for the bobcats. But Rodman is a winner. Not even in a ...won and lost kinda way. Hes a winner in his approach to the game. I dont care how he dresses or what he does before/after the game.

He checks in hes trying to lock up whoever opposes him, get you every ball he can, make the pass leading to the assist, draw blood and bleed himself for the W.

Kevin Love can shoot, finish around the basket, and rebound. But he isnt the type of bigman I want when I have goals bigger than the 8th seed.

Ive seen him with his feet nailed to the floor too many times on defense to take him over Rodman just so he can score some points that nothing suggests will make my team win. I can get 25 points from Warriors run Antawn Jamison.

Im not taking him over Rodman either.

Rodman played the game well in every way except the moment of putting the ball in the basket. He set some of the best screens of the 90s, he passed well, was one of the best athletes ever, defended on and off the ball, and rebounded on both ends. 95% of the time hes better than Kevin Love is at whatever a basketball game requires. He just doesnt shoot and as his career went along he stopped trying to score at all.

Love spaces the floor. Fine. And? Ive seen a lot more evidence that guys with Rodmans traits lead to success than bigmen who cant wait to pull up for 3. Ryan Anderson spaces the floor. Rashard Lewis spaces the floor.

Lets not act like it makes your team do well.

But an inspirational, defensive minded, hard working maniac who guards everyone in the league pulls down 18 offensive rebounds from time to time, can move the ball, and break a collarbone with a screen?

Id take him over an awful lot of people who can score. Scoring in the NBA I always felt was overrated. If you dont have the skillet to just be handed the ball and score on command im not that worried about your totals. Totals dont win games. Making shots under durress and getting stops and preventing second chance points? That wins games.

Love isnt Dirk. Hes not a carry us to glory scorer. Hes a volume scorer.

When he can go one on one at 18 feet or in the post and wet a jumper off the dribble or spin into the lane for the kind of and-1 duncan got 90% of the time he needed it in the 2000s.....ill think about taking him over Rodman.

It isnt even a then vs now thing. Or a Bulls fan thing.

Id take Gasol over Love in comparison to Rodman. Id take a lot of guys who dont produce like Love and call them closer to or beyond Rodman.

Loves totals just dont matter to me when his skillset doesnt show the kind of shotmaking great teams get from their stars.

Gasol can go onthe block and get a turnaround he has a good shot at making whenever he wants. Love is a flow of the game.....somehow got 28 points scorer. A took 7 threes on a good shooting night scorer. A guy who can make a big shot because he can shoot. But im not giving him the ball to win me a ring.

So his totals mean little to me. Especially when compared to a guy who might be better than him at every single thing except the 30 seconds hes trying to score each night.

The only thing love has a case over Rodman in other than scoring is outlet passing. And I would call that pretty even.

[Teanett]

If a player worse than Rodman leads the Wolves to a 50% record, what do you think Mourning's Timberwolves would win? 55 games? 60?

how about 51 wins?
http://hoopstopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Kevin-Garnett.jpg



No, the claim was that the Bulls didn't have to face teams with good enough frontlines in general. They beat Shaq without Grant. They beat Ewing with Oakley as their best PF. They beat Malone and Kemp with scrub big men next to them.

name better frontcourts.

[97 bulls]

If Love has no offensive game except shooting, cut his shooting and deal done. Easy to say, huh? Hey, if things were like this, I'd also argue that Malone had no scoring game apart from fade-aways and finishing fast breaks, Kareem had no scoring game apart from sky-hooks, etc. Matter of fact is, Love is a much-much better scorer and offensive player than Rodman, at a degree that it doesn't make it crazy at all to choose him over Rodman, especially if you are building a team from zero. Hell, there have been defenders at least at at Rodman's class, who were also much better offensive players and pretty good rebounders on their own right (Mourning, Ewing, etc), so if Rodman is supposedly better, let alone much better than Love, are we to suppose that Mourning (not even Hakeem, mind you) would be some kind of deity, better than probably any player playing today?
If a player worse than Rodman leads the Wolves to a 50% record, what do you think Mourning's Timberwolves would win? 55 games? 60?



No, the claim was that the Bulls didn't have to face teams with good enough frontlines in general. They beat Shaq without Grant. They beat Ewing with Oakley as their best PF. They beat Malone and Kemp with scrub big men next to them.
The sonics had kemp, perkins, and frank brikowski. The jazz had malone, carr, and ostertag. What's the difference between ostertag and kendrick perkins?

And its not just love. Its rubio, and beasly, and derriick williams. The wolves are forming a pretty solid team. My god did you not see teanett post the wolves record since love arrival? Why do people give so much credit to one player? Imean, when a team sucks, its not due to their best player, it cuz his team isn't good enough to compete. But when a team becomes great, why does all the credit flow to one guy?

[Psileas]

let's put it this way: with pip/bird you compare two all-time greats who performed on the highest level the biggest stage.
with worm/love, you have one guy who performed at the highest level on the biggest stage and who is arguably the best at what he does EVER to a guy who MIGHT be considered a very good player IF his career goes in the right direction.

There's no reason to repeat the things I've already mentioned. As long as Rodman's role to the Bulls/Pistons was nowhere near as important as the role of Love to the Wolves, the whole ring argument is moot. This is like comparing young Jordan to young Kobe and pretending that Kobe is definitely better, since he won at the biggest stage, while having very significant impact, while young Jordan's best season was "40 wins and an early playoff exit".



what are you so worked about?
until now love's team has won 22, 17, 17 and 17 (i know, i know...).
that is next to no impact. FACT!
gasol won 50 games with the griz.

Good, I'd love to have all these "no impact" guys on the Lakers. Give me Love, give me rookie Griffin (so-so impact as a rookie), I'll trade all my bench players for those kinds of "non-impact" dudes.
You, on the other hand, can create a new team with guys who know how to win, starting with Rodman and moving on with Horry, Kerr, Bowen, Longley, Salley, Avery Johnson...

[rodman91]

If Love has no offensive game except shooting, cut his shooting and deal done. Easy to say, huh? Hey, if things were like this, I'd also argue that Malone had no scoring game apart from fade-aways and finishing fast breaks, Kareem had no scoring game apart from sky-hooks, etc. Matter of fact is, Love is a much-much better scorer and offensive player than Rodman, at a degree that it doesn't make it crazy at all to choose him over Rodman, especially if you are building a team from zero. Hell, there have been defenders at least at at Rodman's class, who were also much better offensive players and pretty good rebounders on their own right (Mourning, Ewing, etc), so if Rodman is supposedly better, let alone much better than Love, are we to suppose that Mourning (not even Hakeem, mind you) would be some kind of deity, better than probably any player playing today?
If a player worse than Rodman leads the Wolves to a 50% record, what do you think Mourning's Timberwolves would win? 55 games? 60?


There is difference between go to move, and ability. Kareem and Malone using those but they had many other moves in their arsenal. Kevin Love doesn't have so far. So don't even compare Love's arsenal to Kareem or even Malone.

Rodman wasn't better than prime Mourning or Ewing. Neighter Love is better than them. They were both regarded as two of the greatest centers.

Mourning in this roster? They would be probably in top 5 in West. You know, Timberwolves still not in playoff picture despite Rubio is already one of the best point guards in the league and Pekovic playing like a monster.

Kevin Love has great stats but he has very unpolished game.

[Psileas]

what about 51 wins?

Seem like too many. He couldn't win that many with the Hornets, while playing with Larry Johnson.


name better frontcourts.

Hakeem-Horry
Akeem-Sampson
Parish-McHale-Walton
Kareem-Mychal-AC

[The Choken One]

I'm just going to assume everyone that is saying Love is better than Rodman is more than likely under 20 years old...that is the only logical explanation.

Dumbass ISHers...smh.

[Teanett]

Seem like too many. He couldn't win that many with the Hornets, while playing with Larry Johnson.

i was tlking about kg



Hakeem-Horry
Akeem-Sampson
Parish-McHale-Walton
Kareem-Mychal-AC

name some that played during rodman's run with the bulls.
i thought you consider horry a lucky scrub...

[Psileas]

There is difference between go to move, and ability. Kareem and Malone using those but they had many other moves in their arsenal. Kevin Love doesn't have so far. So don't even compare Love's arsenal to Kareem or even Malone.

I didn't really try to compare them. Just pointing out that Love's opponents know how he'll try to score. Doesn't matter.
Kareem and Malone are obviously more potent offensive weapons, but you'll still cut a great deal of their efficiency if you try to take away their ability to take their more "automatic", characteristic move. But the problem is, you won't be able to do it lots of times.


Rodman wasn't better than prime Mourning or Ewing. Neighter Love is better than them. They were both regarded as two of the greatest centers.

Agreed.


Mourning in this roster? They would be probably in top 5 in West. You know, Timberwolves still not in playoff picture despite Rubio is already one of the best point guards in the league and Pekovic playing like a monster.

Kevin Love has great stats but he has very unpolished game.

I suspect 45-48 wins would be the number.
I'm not ready, however, to call Rubio one of the best PG's in the league. If you talk about Love's unpolished offensive game, you'll have to mention Rubio's unpolished scoring ability, while his defense, while good, is not as good as what his numbers (steals leader) show, either.

[rodman91]

Seem like too many. He couldn't win that many with the Hornets, while playing with Larry Johnson.


Without Zo 91 Season: 26 wins (12 of 13rd Teams in East)
With Zo 92 season: 44 wins (5th in East, 2nd round in playoffs)


Without Love : 22 wins (14 of 15 teams)
With Love : 24 wins (11 of 15 teams,what is playoffs?)

[Psileas]

i was tlking about kg

KG? I don't remember mentioning him. Garnett is in another category.


name some that played during rodman's run with the bulls.
i thought you consider horry a lucky scrub...


I didn't say that Rodman's Bulls were lucky they didn't meet certain teams they avoided. The thing is that there hardly existed any such teams in that era.

Horry was obviously worse than what his ring resume shows. No scrub, though, and while not a really high impact player, teamming with the best center of the last 20 years (along with peak Shaq) would be enough at that time to rank this frontline high. In this elite frontcourt list, however, they would still rank last.

[Psileas]

Without Zo 91 Season: 26 wins (12 of 13rd Teams in East)
With Zo 92 season: 44 wins (5th in East, 2nd round in playoffs)


Without Love : 22 wins (14 of 15 teams)
With Love : 24 wins (11 of 15 teams,what is playoffs?)

I didn't compare rookie Mourning to rookie Love, right?

[10x91= 5 Rings]

Well,Well,Well....somebody really seems to have a grudge against my boy Rodman.Is it because a snooty skinny Rookie with a heart of a lion hurt Larry Birds feelings???

Is it because that kid,in the words of Chuck Daly, was the missing piece to taking over the East from the Celtics and winning Back 2 Back?

Is it because Rodman could make your team win,without scoring.Locking down the opponents best player, causing havoc with a relentless drive to rebound and give your team more shots?

Is it because Rodman took charges like no one I saw before or after and took the hits with a smile?

Is it because Rodman didn`t fit the mold of how a basketball player should behave and act or even play?

Is it because he made every team he was on better,because no one could do what he did?

Is it because Rodman overshadowed so-called star players not only with skill but with his persona and didn`t give a **** what Stern and his buttkissers thought?

Kevin love is a good player I like him and wish him all the best for the future,but anyone in his right mind comparing him to Rodman is either a kid or from a fan base that saw Rodman toying with their favorite players and who are still butthurt.

I leave you with a quote from the greatest movie of all time :oldlol: :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkScRJMMkcE

Offense gets the glory, but defense wins the game!!!

[skepticalsports]

And you can tell just how legitimate that measure is by how high Frank Brickowski rates. If Rodman was on your team and so was MJ and Pippen, or David Robinson, or Shaq, or the uber-deep Pistons then you won, is more a statement I could get behind.

In the article where I published that table, I don't claim that it's a definitive metric: the variance is simply too high to be conclusive for individual players. Fortunately, the case for Rodman is much more detailed and looks at his value from several other angles as well: http://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222.

Also, I can't tell from your post whether you got this or not, but to clarify, win % differential is measured relative to the team's quality, so playing for very good teams (Chi, Det, SA) makes results like Rodman's much *less* likely.

[ZenMaster]

In the article where I published that table, I don't claim that it's a definitive metric: the variance is simply too high to be conclusive for individual players. Fortunately, the case for Rodman is much more detailed and looks at his value from several other angles as well: http://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222.

Also, I can't tell from your post whether you got this or not, but to clarify, win % differential is measured relative to the team's quality, so playing for very good teams (Chi, Det, SA) makes results like Rodman's much *less* likely.

I only glanced it and read your post, do they count offensive rebounds as an extra possesion? Usually you don't do that.

[ReturnofJPR]

Love is hardly soft. Anyone who thinks this needs to watch him play. He's been described as a brick wall by anyone who's had to compete for boards with him. The kid puts up insane stats at boards to prove this.

Love has an absolute motor and he launches for the ball every second of the game. He shoves his defenders a ton and he gets calls for how rough he gets. The Miami game this year.. LeBron shoved Love hustling back to the other side of the court and Love responded by pushing him right back for an offensive rebound he got off a Wade brick.

Also.. he steps on faces.

He sure looked soft last night against Blake Griffin...Rodman took on the game's best every night.

[dude77]

Are you kidding me? What do you think the R in my name stands for?

Jordan-Pippen-Rodman, been posting on here since the old board and website.

Rodman had a mean streak, all-world defender, was a lunatic, and could have won a Finals MVP.

Love is a gimmick player. Soft too...softer than the Worm at least. Most players are soft today compared to Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, etc.

eh .. a lot of present day nba homers cringe at reading that .. but I agree .. it's true .. doesn't help that the rules have been changed to pussify the league more though

[D-Wade316]

:lol What a joke this guy is. Rondo>Rodman btw too buddy. IDK what kind of point you are trying to make comparing a glue guy(GOAT glue guy maybe?:bowdown: ) to an all star pg.
He even once made a post that Rose>Wade because ESPN said so. :lol

[dude77]

this is not a fair comparison .. rodman's career is done .. he reached his potential and did all he was going to accomplish .. love is a pup .. 23 .. I'll wait to make this comparison in 12 yrs

[Owl]

In the article where I published that table, I don't claim that it's a definitive metric: the variance is simply too high to be conclusive for individual players. Fortunately, the case for Rodman is much more detailed and looks at his value from several other angles as well: http://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222.

Also, I can't tell from your post whether you got this or not, but to clarify, win % differential is measured relative to the team's quality, so playing for very good teams (Chi, Det, SA) makes results like Rodman's much *less* likely.
The statement with regard to his teammates was in response to the statement "If Rodman was on your team, you won. Fact."

I've had a quick glance at your site, and it seems impressive enough, though I haven't and probably won't have a chance to look through it seriously. I would note that you acknowledge you were trying to prove Rodman's value (and exceeded yourself) which isn't necessarily a scientific method. For me +/- type numbers are too noisy, have too small sample sizes and relate to backup quality (are they replaceable with players on that squad) to measure long term ability/talent rather than context driven value (I suspect Rodman benefits from being unique and thus "irreplacable"). Of course like I said I haven't looked through all the other pages properly.

As I said in my original post I'd tend to prefer Love but it would depend on the context.

[greymatter]

Depends on what your team needs. Rodman's impact ~= Ben Wallace's with a slight edge going to Rodman for his greater versatility on defense and better rebounding.

If you're a team like Orlando or Chicago, Love is your man. If you're OKC or Miami, Rodman all the way. Ibaka/Rodman, Bosh/Rodman both equal huge upgrades over what they've got there now.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Rodman by a mile. I don't have to tell you about his resume. I assure you it isn't based on nostalgia. Rodman could dominate a game against superstars with scoring a point. He was a high basketball iq player. Hubie Brown loves him so thast should tell you something. He's tough son of a bitch and a winner.

[Micku]

Depends on who I have on my team. Rodman was more of a specialist, and didn't score much. So, if I have to a choose who I would want to build around then it would be Love. He's more of a franchise type player IMO.

But if I had already have a person that I could build around, then I'll take Rodman. He'll be more valuable.

Love career isn't over yet, so we haven't seen him peak. Who knows, he could work himself up to be a very solid defender and a more efficient scorer.

[97 bulls]

Depends on who I have on my team. Rodman was more of a specialist, and didn't score much. So, if I have to a choose who I would want to build around then it would be Love. He's more of a franchise type player IMO.

But if I had already have a person that I could build around, then I'll take Rodman. He'll be more valuable.

Love career isn't over yet, so we haven't seen him peak. Who knows, he could work himself up to be a very solid defender and a more efficient scorer.
As has been said, what makes love a franchise player? Since he's been with the wolves, they've won 17, 15, 24 games. With the 24 wins year happening in his first year. The year before, they won 22 games.

Compare that to rodman. His teams have drastically improved wherever he's been. And regressed in his absence.

[Teanett]

i dont get these "depends on what you need"-responses.
they are both forwards, so do i pick an all-star scorer and rebounder?
or the arguably best rebounder and defender ever?
no brainer,
i'd pick the better player: rodman.

[blablabla]

i dont get these "depends on what you need"-responses.
they are both forwards, so do i pick an all-star scorer and rebounder?
or the arguably best rebounder and defender ever?
no brainer,
i'd pick the better player: rodman.
this

[greymatter]

As has been said, what makes love a franchise player? Since he's been with the wolves, they've won 17, 15, 24 games. With the 24 wins year happening in his first year. The year before, they won 22 games.

Compare that to rodman. His teams have drastically improved wherever he's been. And regressed in his absence.

Joined a Pistons team that already featured Isiah, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimber.
Joined a Spurs team that had Drob, Sean Elliot, Dale Ellis.
Joined a Bulls team that had Jordan and Pippen.

Verdict: he made 2nd round playoff teams into title contenders. He would never have sniffed anything close to a title on a team with him as the best player.

[greymatter]

i dont get these "depends on what you need"-responses.

Of course you don't. You're a few cards short of a full deck.

[97 bulls]

Joined a Pistons team that already featured Isiah, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimber.
Joined a Spurs team that had Drob, Sean Elliot, Dale Ellis.
Joined a Bulls team that had Jordan and Pippen.

Verdict: he made 2nd round playoff teams into title contenders. He would never have sniffed anything close to a title on a team with him as the best player.
And there no doubt in my mind that rodman could bee the best player on a bunch of 17 to 20 win teams.

So rodman joined good teams and made them great. Love joined a bad team and up until now, they were still bad. Bottom line, without rodman the spurs were a 500 team at 8-9. With rodman they were 40-9. The pistons with rodman (not even counting their championship seasons) were 48 win team. Without rodman, 40-42.

Even the bulls, in 95 the bulls won 47 games in 95. And let's assume that if jordan plays the whole season they win 60 games. With rodman, 72 games

Chuck daly said rodman was the missing piece to the pistons championship puzzle. He's a game changer.

How can you argue with results?

[greymatter]

And there no doubt in my mind that rodman could bee the best player on a bunch of 17 to 20 win teams.

That's not saying much.


So rodman joined good teams and made them great.

Yup. He never joined a bad team. He learned how to be the perfect role player. Key word: "role". He was always the third+ best player on any championship caliber team he played for.


Love joined a bad team and up until now, they were still bad. Bottom line, without rodman the spurs were a 500 team at 8-9. With rodman they were 40-9. The pistons with rodman (not even counting their championship seasons) were 48 win team. Without rodman, 40-42.

Even the bulls, in 95 the bulls won 47 games in 95. And let's assume that if jordan plays the whole season they win 60 games. With rodman, 72 games

Chuck daly said rodman was the missing piece to the pistons championship puzzle. He's a game changer.

How can you argue with results?

Nice skewing there. Spurs won 56, 55, 47 (Drob missed 14 games), and 49 games the 4 seasons before Rodman joined. They won 6 more games after the first season and 62 games the next season where Worm only played 49 games. On those Pistons teams, he was never better than the 3rd best player.

The results? They've already been said. Perhaps the best complementary player you can have for any team that doesn't have a dominant PF. Still doesn't negate the fact that his one-dimensionality is what made him incapable of ever being "the man" for any team he ever played for.

[Bigsmoke]

Even the bulls, in 95 the bulls won 47 games in 95. And let's assume that if jordan plays the whole season they win 60 games. With rodman, 72 games



MJ playing in 82 games instead of 17 could be a logical reason :lol


That's not saying much.



Yup. He never joined a bad team. He learned how to be the perfect role player. Key word: "role". He was always the third+ best player on any championship caliber team he played for.



Nice skewing there. Spurs won 56, 55, 47 (Drob missed 14 games), and 49 games the 4 seasons before Rodman joined. They won 6 more games after the first season and 62 games the next season where Worm only played 49 games. On those Pistons teams, he was never better than the 3rd best player.

The results? They've already been said. Perhaps the best complementary player you can have for any team that doesn't have a dominant PF. Still doesn't negate the fact that his one-dimensionality is what made him incapable of ever being "the man" for any team he ever played for.

and the Spurs were even better defensively in 1996 than they were in with Rodman on the lineup in 1995

[Micku]

As has been said, what makes love a franchise player? Since he's been with the wolves, they've won 17, 15, 24 games. With the 24 wins year happening in his first year. The year before, they won 22 games.

Compare that to rodman. His teams have drastically improved wherever he's been. And regressed in his absence.

Look at the teams that he was on with Pistons with Isiah and Joe Dumars then with David Robinson then with Jordan and Pippen.

With the Pistons, they missed out more than just Rodman. Pistons were getting old and needed to regroup. Bill Laimbeer was old, the defense wasn't what it used to be. They were going down hill when Rodman was rising.

And with the Spurs, they were still good without Rodman. David Robinson was their main guy and Rodman contributed to that. They only lost 3 more games without Rodman. It went from 62 wins to 59.

Rodman is a great complementary piece because he is more of a specialist, but you don't want to build around the guy. He could never be your first option because he never could prove that. Love could be your first option, and he could still improve.

[Bigsmoke]

i dont get these "depends on what you need"-responses.
they are both forwards, so do i pick an all-star scorer and rebounder?
or the arguably best rebounder and defender ever?
no brainer,
i'd pick the better player: rodman.

Rodman is a role player.

you think the Bobcats right now would benefit more from Rodman's capabilities than so from Love's?

Rodman is who u need to make your team better in certain areas where as Love is someone to build around.

you get Rodman when u have Love. not the other way around. feel me?

[97 bulls]

Look at the teams that he was on with Pistons with Isiah and Joe Dumars then with David Robinson then with Jordan and Pippen.

With the Pistons, they missed out more than just Rodman. Pistons were getting old and needed to regroup. Bill Laimbeer was old, the defense wasn't what it used to be. They were going down hill when Rodman was rising.

And with the Spurs, they were still good without Rodman. David Robinson was their main guy and Rodman contributed to that. They only lost 3 more games without Rodman. It went from 62 wins to 59.

Rodman is a great complementary piece because he is more of a specialist, but you don't want to build around the guy. He could never be your first option because he never could prove that. Love could be your first option, and he could still improve.
Love will improve. But you like most people that frequent this site, mix 1st option with best player. There is a difference. How have the timberwolves faired with love as their "first option"? There is a difference between being a scorer and franchise player. Players like Bill Russell, and Dekembe Mutombo weren't the first offensive option for their team, but they were the franchise and teams best player.

And sure the teams rodman were on had great players. I still don't see why we should penalize him for that. Especially when its obvious his teams declined in his absence. And then overlook that love hasn't made a difference at all since he's been in the league with the wolves.

[Lord Leoshes]

For those of you that are to young to have watch Rodman play consistently in his days have no actual say in the matter. :no:

[Teanett]

you get Rodman when u have Love. not the other way around. feel me?

i dont feel you.
rodman is best 'role player' ever. most dominating rebounder ever.
love is a 25 ppg scorer on a bad team. there are many players today who can score 25 on a bad team. there is nobody in the history of the game who can do what rodman did.

[Teanett]

you think the Bobcats right now would benefit more from Rodman's capabilities than so from Love's?

hell yeah!

[Bigsmoke]

i dont feel you.
rodman is best 'role player' ever. most dominating rebounder ever.
love is a 25 ppg scorer on a bad team. there are many players today who can score 25 on a bad team. there is nobody in the history of the game who can do what rodman did.

The T-Wolves aren't a "bad" team. they are young.

even if u think they are bad, why arent there 25/14 players on those other bad teams?


hell yeah!

lol

[Teanett]

The T-Wolves aren't a "bad" team. they are young.

even if u think they are bad, why arent there 25/14 players on those other bad teams?



lol


17 wins is bad, no matter how young they are.
i didnt say every bad team has a 25ppg player, i said there are many players who can score 25ppg if they were in love's situation.
read first, think second, reply if worthy. ok?

[Bigsmoke]

17 wins is bad, no matter how young they are.
i didnt say every bad team has a 25ppg player, i said there are many players who can score 25ppg if they were in love's situation.
read first, think second, reply if worthy. ok?

they were bad last year and it wasnt Love's fault far from it.

if you're gonna be like that then why the Pistons didnt even reach .500 with Rodman having his best season?

[Teanett]

they were bad last year and it wasnt Love's fault far from it.

if you're gonna be like that then why the Pistons didnt even reach .500 with Rodman having his best season?

there is a substantial difference between 40 and 17 wins, is there not?

[97 bulls]

17 wins is bad, no matter how young they are.
i didnt say every bad team has a 25ppg player, i said there are many players who can score 25ppg if they were in love's situation.
read first, think second, reply if worthy. ok?
Exactly. On a good team loves statistics would have to suffer. He'd probably be an 18/11 guy. But on a better fg%

[Bigsmoke]

there is a substantial difference between 40 and 17 wins, is there not?

theres a difference be Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas and Beasley and Luke Ridnour as well. :hammerhead:

[Teanett]

theres a difference be Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas and Beasley and Luke Ridnour as well. :hammerhead:
how young are you?
isiah was almost retired. he wasnt the same player. that's like saying carter had olajuwon in toronto...
look what happened when rodman left: 22 wins with joe dumars, isiah, laimbeer and sean eliott.