Do the Knicks have more talent than the Bulls?

[Micku]

The Knicks seemed like they got a bunch of talent all at once. JR Smith coming into town, Jared Jeffries, Steve Novak, Baron Davis and Iman Shumpert all coming off the bench.

Then you have the Lin who came out of nowhere, but seem like a solid PG with Melo, Amare and Chandler.

While they probably aren't the team that the Bulls are, do they have more talent than them?

[Sarcastic]

Top to bottom, absolutely. Knicks go 10 deep right now.

Problem is the Bulls' coach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knicks' coach.

[hkfosho]

never knew defense didnt count as talent

[Sarcastic]

never knew defense didnt count as talent

It's a function of the coach, and Woodson has them playing great defense. The Knicks are 5th in def rating this year.

Look up some stats from time to time. It does wonders.

[EoJ]

Omer Asik>Jerome Jordan
Carlos Boozer<Amar'e Stoudemire
Ronnie Brewer=Landry Fields
Jimmy Butler<Iman Shumpert
Luol Deng<Carmelo Anthony
Taj Gibson>Jared Jeffries
Richard Hamilton<J.R. Smith
Kyle Korver<Steve Novak
John Lucas III>Mike Bibby
Joakim Noah<Tyson Chandler
Derrick Rose>Jeremy Lin
Brian Scalabrine>>>Toney Douglas Bill Walker
C.J. Watson>Baron Davis

[(e)]

It's a function of the coach, and Woodson has them playing great defense. The Knicks are 5th in def rating this year.

Look up some stats from time to time. It does wonders.
According to what exactly?

Chicago is ranked 3rd in offensive efficiency right now, and 2nd in defensive efficiency. Higher than the Knicks in both categories.

[knickswin]

yes, but the bulls are playing wonderful basketball this year. very selfless team. lots of chemistry. even boozer is contributing a lot. best passing team in the league. hamilton is a revelation when on the court. very underrated passer and creator. the one problem I think they have is outside shooting.

knicks don't have anything near the chemistry the bulls have, and it's very unlikely they will this season.

[Sarcastic]

According to what exactly?

Chicago is ranked 3rd in offensive efficiency right now, and 2nd in defensive efficiency. Higher than the Knicks in both categories.

Are you trying to build a strawman or something. I never said the Knicks were ahead of them in either of those categories. The Knicks haven't had their full lineup for probably 90% of the season.

[InspiredLebowski]

According to what exactly?

Chicago is ranked 3rd in offensive efficiency right now, and 2nd in defensive efficiency. Higher than the Knicks in both categories.according to defensive rating (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html)

[(e)]

Are you trying to build a strawman or something. I never said the Knicks were ahead of them in either of those categories. The Knicks haven't had their full lineup for probably 90% of the season.
You said to look at stats, and as a team, Chicago is statistically better.

And Chicago has only had their full lineup for 6 games this year, definitely had their injury issues this season.

[Kiddlovesnets]

According to Knicks fans, their team has more talents than the Heat. So Bulls, who? XD
:D

[Clocian-IGN]

It's a function of the coach, and Woodson has them playing great defense. The Knicks are 5th in def rating this year.

Look up some stats from time to time. It does wonders.

the only player on the bulls roster that isn't defensive minded is booz and korver. everyone else is defensive minded regardless of who the coach is.

[WeGetRing2012]

Yes they do but the Knicks don't play team defense like the Bulls.

[knickswin]

According to Knicks fans, their team has more talents than the Heat. So Bulls, who? XD
:D

on paper the knicks have a TON of talent. they are title contenders on paper. how can they not be? tyson/amar'e/melo/jr/lin that's five starting caliber players two of whom started in the all star game last year. then they have guys like fields, baron, shumpert, novak, jeffries, and harrellson coming off the bench.

but they don't play like title contenders. at all. amar'e has been marginalized and is not shooting the ball well at all. carmelo has been somewhat marginalized and is also not shooting well. they don't have anything near the ball movement of the bulls. they don't hustle like the bulls. they don't play defense like the bulls. knicks need to straight-up play better if they want to do anything in the playoffs. that's a very tall order IMO.

[Eric Cartman]

They have more talent than the Bulls but their pieces don't seem to fit as well. Also Chicago is leaps and bounds ahead on team chemistry while having more playoff experience and a better coach.

[Yanch856]

Yes absolutely - Tyson is bigger and better than Noah. Amare is a head taller than Boozer and would exploit him. Melo and Deng - let's say even cos deng can play pretty good. Rip... probably > Fields/JR, but Rip is old. It's a close match up. Rose is the elephant in the room - let's see how Lin pans out. BDiddy off the bench isn't bad either.

The knicks bench won 7 straight so I have Knicks bench > Bulls.

So the Knicks are more talented on paper than the bulls. They should win against the bulls, and if NOT --> hohoho...

[knickswin]

Top to bottom, absolutely. Knicks go 10 deep right now.

Problem is the Bulls' coach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knicks' coach.

that's not the problem. why is everything mike's fault to you. thibs is a very good coach, but mike is a good coach in his way as well. mike has coached a team to contention in the past as well.

the difference is that the bulls have a great identity going on right now. noah, boozer, hamilton, rose, all these guys are good passers. noah and hamilton are exceptional for their positions. they are the best rebounding team in the league. they work hard and play defense. they play great team basketball. they do not have a ton of creators on offense (really just rose and hamilton), but through good half court play they create looks for each other.

and it's not just thibs. the bulls FO did a good job assembling players who fit an identity. their guys have played for calhoun, larry brown, sloan, calipari, krzyzewski, donovan. these are winning coaches who get their teams to play team ball, and brown and sloan are similar stylistically to thibs.

knicks talent is a bit of a hodge podge. melo and d'antoni are not ideal for each other. tyson clogs up the lane for amar'e.

[InspiredLebowski]

^^ what you're talking about is the whole "draft a team v. build a team" philosophy. Clearly the Knicks didn't draft (anybody but Douglas?) their team, but it's the same idea.

[Micku]

D'Antoni is a great offensive coach, and I would think that since he finally has a PG, he should be able to do something with the Knicks squad with Melo, Amare, JR Smith, and Lin.

It's going to take a while for them to get chemistry going. But still, they are very talented and should win a lot of games.

In comparison with the Bulls tho, the chemistry is out of the ball park. Even without their best player with D.Rose, they were still winning games.

[MMM]

the knicks have bigger names but seems like a lot of their talent is redundant and duplicated while the Bulls have guys in clear roles which gets the most out of them.

[kurple]

10deep

1) Rose > Melo
2) Boozer = Amare
3) Deng > Lin
4) Noah < Chandler
5) Rip > Fields
6) Watson < Baron
7) Brewer < JR
8) Korver > Novak
9) Gibson > Jeffries
10) Asik > Harrelson

Bulls defense >>>> Knicks defense

[Glide2keva]

Of course the Knicks have more talent than the Bulls.

[The Ownage]

In terms of overall talent, yes. But the Bulls have amazing chemistry, defense and ball movement which makes them better.

[Rnbizzle]

10deep

1) Rose > Melo
2) Boozer = Amare
3) Deng > Lin
4) Noah < Chandler
5) Rip > Fields
6) Watson < Baron
7) Brewer < JR
8) Korver > Novak
9) Gibson > Jeffries
10) Asik > Harrelson

Bulls defense >>>> Knicks defense
:applause:

I would say Noah = Chandler, they are close to the same player. Also, I would normally say Amare >>> Boozer.. but lately I find myself having trouble defending Amare versus 70% of the PF's in the league.

[niko]

10deep

1) Rose > Melo
2) Boozer = Amare
3) Deng > Lin
4) Noah < Chandler
5) Rip > Fields
6) Watson < Baron
7) Brewer < JR
8) Korver > Novak
9) Gibson > Jeffries
10) Asik > Harrelson

Bulls defense >>>> Knicks defense
Why do you compare people across roles? To specifically take away Melo>Deng. Melo is not our PG. And while i agree with most of them (i'd rather have Novak than Korver) Rip never plays, so you'll need to explain to me how Rip>Fields.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I think the reason it seemed like we got all that talent all at once is because guys like Jefferies and Novak really stepped up when Melo/Amar'e went out and were forced into big minutes. Then add in that they were playing with a true PG. I think for Jefferies it was just a matter of confidence and Novak a matter of opportunity. Then we added JR and Baron came back. Now Jorts is coming back. That's why we got so much talent now. The injuries/ circumstances caused a lot of people to step up and they did. Let's hope they can keep up the production in less time.

The Bulls have a lot of gritty, high effort guys from top to bottom where as the Knicks have more talented players. I think this is where it comes down to coaching. Which is why Chicago's better (record wise).

[DMV2]

In terms of overall talent, yes. But the Bulls have amazing chemistry, defense and ball movement which makes them better.
One team have also been together for two or so years, while the other only 2 months and a little more than two weeks with their new star point guard.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Why do you compare people across roles? To specifically take away Melo>Deng. Melo is not our PG. And while i agree with most of them (i'd rather have Novak than Korver) Rip never plays, so you'll need to explain to me how Rip>Fields.
I thought he did the opposite (which I agree with). He went from 1st option down to 10th option which is much better than just comparing positions like EoJ did because most teams are constructed differently.

[Rnbizzle]

Why do you compare people across roles? To specifically take away Melo>Deng. Melo is not our PG. And while i agree with most of them (i'd rather have Novak than Korver) Rip never plays, so you'll need to explain to me how Rip>Fields.
Because it makes more sense to compare your best player to the other teams best player?

If you take NY and LA you'd get

Kobe > Fields
MWP < Melo

That means nothing. You want to know how your roster stacks up against the other team's. Therefore I'd say it's much more logical to look at Melo vs Kobe. What does your best player do and what can he not do.

Actually, looking at teams by putting the players next to eachother is pointless. If the Bulls play Miami you'd say Noah > Anthony and Bosh > Boozer, but in reality the Bulls put Noah on Bosh and hide Boozer's D by making him play Anthony who's offensively retarded.

It makes much more sense to look at talent and depth by comparing the teams as a whole;

The Bulls clearly play better D, rebound the ball better and have a better coach.

The Knicks are better offensively because they have more shotmakers.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

According to what exactly?

Chicago is ranked 3rd in offensive efficiency right now, and 2nd in defensive efficiency. Higher than the Knicks in both categories.

What do you think ratings are based off of numbers from onlythe past few games? We JUST got everyone healthy and added new talented as recently as a few days ago. Weve played 1 game as a full squad. Those numbers dont reflect the team we have on the floor now

[derb2k2]

it seems the Knicks have more talent, but Chicago is the better overall team. They also have a leader in Rose who makes those around him better. Chicago does have a problem with offense though. I watched last night's game and when Rose is out, boy they look a little lost. Knicks have more firepower that's for sure.

[niko]

I thought he did the opposite (which I agree with). He went from 1st option down to 10th option which is much better than just comparing positions like EoJ did because most teams are constructed differently.
No he didn't, he compared roles to roles. Backup PG vs. Backup PG, big vs. big. He just has Melo and Lin flippped. B Diddy is our 6th best player? Are we doing historical ability? If he did what you said it makes sense but it's not, it's almost all role vs. role except Melo who he compares to Rose and Deng to Lin.

[Rnbizzle]

What do you think ratings are based off of numbers from onlythe past few games? We JUST got everyone healthy and added new talented as recently as a few days ago. Weve played 1 game as a full squad. Those numbers dont reflect the team we have on the floor now
Do you really believe your team, when healthy, can do the same thing the Bulls are doing, by that I mean, get the same rankings? I highly doubt it. As long as Mr. Pringles is your head coach you are not going to be a top defensive team in the league, no matter stat someone pulled out, if you watch the Knicks play, there's too many possessions when you're just :facepalm .. how did that happen.

I don't want to rain on your parade Knicks fans, but I honestly believe you guys are going to be terribly dissapointed come playoff time. I mean you'll probable get through the regular season alright and end up with the 6th/7th seed..

But when teams actually put Lin in the scoutingreport and every bucket you get has to be fought for, Novak, Jeffries, Shumpert and Fields (remember last year) will probable be nowhere to be found. That's when Melo is going to show you guys why he was worth all those pieces you traded for him, like he did last year. Of course you're all going to disagree with me and say you have great depth but let's be real here for one second, you know I'm right.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Do you really believe your team, when healthy, can do the same thing the Bulls are doing, by that I mean, get the same rankings? I highly doubt it. As long as Mr. Pringles is your head coach you are not going to be a top defensive team in the league, no matter stat someone pulled out, if you watch the Knicks play, there's too many possessions when you're just :facepalm .. how did that happen.

I don't want to rain on your parade Knicks fans, but I honestly believe you guys are going to be terribly dissapointed come playoff time. I mean you'll probable get through the regular season alright and end up with the 6th/7th seed..

But when teams actually put Lin in the scoutingreport and every bucket you get has to be fought for, Novak, Jeffries, Shumpert and Fields (remember last year) will probable be nowhere to be found. That's when Melo is going to show you guys why he was worth all those pieces you traded for him, like he did last year. Of course you're all going to disagree with me and say you have great depth but let's be real here for one second, you know I'm right.

We have more talent and depth than your team, thats clear. Your coach is better and the Bulls as a team play more cohesively. Its possible things wont clique for us, but one thing is apparent and thats from top to bottom the Knicks have more talent

[Sarcastic]

10deep

1) Rose > Melo
2) Boozer = Amare
3) Deng > Lin
4) Noah < Chandler
5) Rip > Fields
6) Watson < Baron
7) Brewer < JR
8) Korver > Novak
9) Gibson > Jeffries
10) Asik > Harrelson

Bulls defense >>>> Knicks defense

This comparison is so full of fail, it's hilarious. You start off comparing #1 star to #1 star, then slowly move into a positional comparison, while including a guy on the Knicks who is not even currently part of the 10 man rotation that I was implying. Where is Shumpert in your list?

So much fail.:facepalm

[Godzuki]

The Knicks seemed like they got a bunch of talent all at once. JR Smith coming into town, Jared Jeffries, Steve Novak, Baron Davis and Iman Shumpert all coming off the bench.

Then you have the Lin who came out of nowhere, but seem like a solid PG with Melo, Amare and Chandler.

While they probably aren't the team that the Bulls are, do they have more talent than them?


yes...especially-if-Baron-keeps-improving-and-doesn't-get-hurt-again-since-he's-looked-real-good-so-far...all-of-his-rehab/injuries-considered.

Bulls-seem-deep-with-their-bigs-but-the-Knicks-have-better-stars-up-front-and-the-Knicks-are-much-deeper-in-guards-altho-they-don't-got-Rose-talent.

[FireMcFailPlease]

i wouldnt trade derrick rose for lin+amare+melo.

so that alone, tells you the bulls will f*ck the knicks

[PJR]

If the Knicks had more talent, they wouldn't have started 8-15, and needed an Asian American point guard off the street to make them competitive.

More isolation scorers doesn't = better talent.

[Sarcastic]

If the Knicks had more talent, they wouldn't have started 8-15, and needed an Asian American point guard off the street to make them competitive.

More isolation scorers doesn't = better talent.

Wow, what a bad hypothesis. Amount of talent is not directly correlated to wins and losses. There are teams that win with very little talent, and there are teams that lose a bunch while having tons of talent. It's up to the coaching to get the pieces working properly, and if that is not done correctly, all the talent in the world won't win you any games.

[All Net]

Offensive talent? Yes

Defensive? Not close

[Godzuki]

If the Knicks had more talent, they wouldn't have started 8-15, and needed an Asian American point guard off the street to make them competitive.

More isolation scorers doesn't = better talent.


their-whole-offense-revolves-around-a-distributing-PG...but-thats-obvious-from-DAntoni's-Suns-where-Nash-dominated-the-ball-more-than-any-other-PG-in-the-league....so-does-Lin-for-the-most-part....before-they-had-SG's-playing-PG...and-lots-of-injuries-up-until-recently.

Bulls-have-defensive-strictness-in-their-favor-tho-which-is-probably-what-will-trump-the-Knicks-more-than-anything-especially-when-their-shots-aren't-falling...Knicks-really-have-to-improve-from-now-to-the-end-of-the-season-which-should-happen...just-a-matter-of-how-much.

most-other-teams-have-already-peaked-but-Knicks-have-alot-more-room-to-improve-from-what-we-saw-in-the-1st-half-of-the-season-with-all-their-new-players-and-everyone-healthy.

[DaaaaBULLS]

On paper, technically the Knicks do. Have they been using that talent lately? Not really. Only time will tell what will happen. Regardless of what happens though the Bulls defense will run a train on the Knicks all day long.

[cteach111]

the Knicks haven't really had the time to mesh, but something tells me that as long as they got Melo/Amare out there.. they'll never improve that much defensively

[Pharcyde]

What do you think ratings are based off of numbers from onlythe past few games? We JUST got everyone healthy and added new talented as recently as a few days ago. Weve played 1 game as a full squad. Those numbers dont reflect the team we have on the floor now

The Bulls have been injured extensively as well...

[D-Wade316]

Offensive talent? Yes

Defensive? Not close
What? The Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the league, in fact they're 5th best overall.

But I'll go with the Bulls. Simply the better, cohesive team.

[Yanch856]

i wouldnt trade derrick rose for lin+amare+melo.

so that alone, tells you the bulls will f*ck the knicks

This is a very good point.

[Glide2keva]

The Bulls have been injured extensively as well...
Injuries don't count for the Bulls.

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

Bulls over Knicks in a 7 game series

[Godzuki]

if-you-factor-in-new-players-like-JR-and-Lin-coming-out-of-nowhere,and-then-their-injuries-i'd-think-they-have-double-the-players-roundabouts-that-haven't-been-with-the-team-but-are-now...more-than-the-Bulls-getting-back-players...even-Shumpert-was-injured-when-everyone-else-came-back.

i-know-Rose-was-out-for-like-2-3weeks~?...Rip-was-out-a-few-weeks...and-i-think-a-Bulls-big-was-hurt-briefly?

[Brickz187]

Knicks may have more offensive talent, but their defense lags FAR behind the Bulls. If the Knicks were a defensive team, they could be very scary. Fact is they don't have the right coach for that and their players don't seem to believe in defense wins championships. All to often Amare is just standing there while someone is grabbing rebounds or coming in for a layup. Melo is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be on defense, but considering he has to guard players like Lebron and Durant, you really need him to lead the way with defense.

[Sarcastic]

Knicks may have more offensive talent, but their defense lags FAR behind the Bulls. If the Knicks were a defensive team, they could be very scary. Fact is they don't have the right coach for that and their players don't seem to believe in defense wins championships. All to often Amare is just standing there while someone is grabbing rebounds or coming in for a layup. Melo is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be on defense, but considering he has to guard players like Lebron and Durant, you really need him to lead the way with defense.

It's the Knicks offense that has plagued them this year. Their defense has actually been really good.

[Mr. Incredible]

The Bulls are very underrated this year and the Heat better not look past them. The Kicks have a plethora of offensive talent. They will give the Bulls or Heat a scare. Pushing them to a close 6 games series just because they can score from all areas of the court.

Next year is the year the Knicks are going to be very, very good. Mainly because I believe Phil will be there next year.

[HylianNightmare]

More talanted but not as good

[kurple]

This comparison is so full of fail, it's hilarious. You start off comparing #1 star to #1 star, then slowly move into a positional comparison, while including a guy on the Knicks who is not even currently part of the 10 man rotation that I was implying. Where is Shumpert in your list?

So much fail.:facepalm
not as much fail as the knicks franchise

ur just mad because we got gallo and you are stuck with Melo

Rose > Melo
Boozer = Amare
Deng = Chandler
Noah > Lin
Rip > Smith
Taj > Baron
Brew < Fields
Asik = Shumpert
Korver > Novak
Watson = Jeffries

happy?

[Sarcastic]

not as much fail as the knicks franchise

ur just mad because we got gallo and you are stuck with Melo

:roll:

:mad:

[knickswin]

not as much fail as the knicks franchise

ur just mad because we got gallo and you are stuck with Melo

Rose > Melo
Boozer = Amare
Deng = Chandler
Noah > Lin
Rip > Smith
Taj > Baron
Brew < Fields
Asik = Shumpert
Korver > Novak
Watson = Jeffries

happy?

woah. hold up here. novak is definitely better than korver.

[It's A VC3!!!]

The Knicks have a tremendous amount of talent. They have a great starting lineup, and a really solid bench. The sad thing is their record won't show that. Aside from that, I firmly believe the Knicks will solve all issues on when the ball is going to be in whose hands. When that happens they will be a very good team. Not better than the 2012 Brooklyn Nets of course. :D

[Tenchi Ryu]

woah. hold up here. novak is definitely better than korver.
Korver is probably the second best pure 3 point shooter in the league after Allen...

[The Ownage]

People need to recognise that our defense has been better than our offense this whole season. That is the main reason for us wanting to fire D'Antoni. The Bulls are better for sure, but it's not out of the question to say that the Knicks can become better by the end of the season.


not as much fail as the knicks franchise

ur just mad because we got gallo and you are stuck with Melo

http://i.imgur.com/dT6RV.gif

[airchibundo507]

not as much fail as the knicks franchise

ur just mad because we got gallo and you are stuck with Melo


tell me what the lottery is like... Melo teams have never had the privilege of experiencing it

[Dengness9]

Yes absolutely - Tyson is bigger and better than Noah. Amare is a head taller than Boozer and would exploit him. Melo and Deng - let's say even cos deng can play pretty good. Rip... probably > Fields/JR, but Rip is old. It's a close match up. Rose is the elephant in the room - let's see how Lin pans out. BDiddy off the bench isn't bad either.

The knicks bench won 7 straight so I have Knicks bench > Bulls.

So the Knicks are more talented on paper than the bulls. They should win against the bulls, and if NOT --> hohoho...


I can see you POV on most of these comparisons but to be real, its not as easy as you've broken it down to be.

Tyson is bigger and better than Noah??? Well speaking as somebody who use to have Tyson as my fave player(during his Bulls tenure), i respect his game and what he brings, especially to the Knicks this year. But you can't ignore what Joakim has been doing lately.

A look at season averages
Tyson-11.7ppg/9.5/1.3bpg/70%

Noah- 9.7 ppg/10.3 rpg/1.3 bpg/50%

What sticks out to me here is how even these players actually are this season. They play a different brand of basketball, but none the less are irriplacable to their teams.

Tyson's 70% fg is ridiculous and can't be overlooked. However over the last 10 games, Noah has been an absolute monster.

Noah Last 10- 12.5ppg/12.3rpg/3.2apg/1.5bpg/53%FG

Tyson Last 10 - 12.3ppg/8.7rpg/1.4bpg/0.7apg/69%

Tyson is the better paint anchor and overall presence down low, but Joakim is one of the best center perimeter defenders I've seen in a while. Not to mention Joakim's great passing ability for a C more than makes up for Tyson's advantage on FG%.

If anything, it's a wash between the two, especially with Noah starting to look like his old self again(triple dub last week was impressive in 3 quarters).

And i must say, just because New Yorks bench won 7 straight games doesn't mean their bench is better than the Bulls.

The Bulls bench is arguably(not really) the best defensive bench unit in the league, and IMO the best bench unit period altogether.

Watson/Brewer/Korver/Taj/Asik all day over Shumpert/JR/Walker/Novak/Jeffries. Remember the Bulls bench now has a full season of experience together, especially that all important deep playoff run experience the Knicks bench doesn't have.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Korver is probably the second best pure 3 point shooter in the league after Allen...


Bulls homer. Terrible, just terrible.

Anthony Morrow is the best pure 3 point shooter!

Suck to let your fanism display it's full effect doesn't it.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Bulls homer. Terrible, just terrible.

Anthony Morrow is the best pure 3 point shooter!

Suck to let your fanism display it's full effect doesn't it.
Meh

[Dengness9]

Bulls homer. Terrible, just terrible.

Anthony Morrow is the best pure 3 point shooter!

Suck to let your fanism display it's full effect doesn't it.


Morrow might be presently a better pure 3pt shooter but its SUPER debatable.

Korver only 2 seasons ago had the highest 3pt % ever.....word.

[(e)]

Bulls homer. Terrible, just terrible.

Anthony Morrow is the best pure 3 point shooter!

Suck to let your fanism display it's full effect doesn't it.
Meh, they're shooting at about the same rate this season. Morrow has hit a few more, and Korver is sitting a few percentage points higher.

Korver also had a season of over 50%, hard to argue with that. I definitely don't think Morrow is clear cut a better shooter than Korver by any means. Although, Morrow is definitely a better scorer.

[97 bulls]

:applause:

I would say Noah = Chandler, they are close to the same player. Also, I would normally say Amare >>> Boozer.. but lately I find myself having trouble defending Amare versus 70% of the PF's in the league.
Lol I agree. Noah playing like a man possessed. And I don't see whay amare does better than boozer aside from dunking on people.

[knickswin]

Korver is probably the second best pure 3 point shooter in the league after Allen...

man, I'm not a homer or anything, or at least I try not to be. there are like three posts in this thread where I break down why the Bulls are great and better than the Knicks.

but listen, Steve Novak is a better shooter than Korver. definitely. I watch a ton of NBA games, but I'll admit I never really noticed Novak until he came to the Knicks. I'm going to bet you haven't really watched this guy either. He's unbelievable. Best pure shooter I have ever seen. There is no debate that Steve Novak is a better pure shooter than Allen and Korver. Novak's up there with guys like Drazen Petrovic, and gun to my head, I say Novak's a better shooter than him too.

I will say that Korver is better at curling off of screens because he's not as slow as Novak which brings with it a lot of advantages. Novak's ability to ice 30 foot jumpers like they're lay ups also has its advantages though . . .

[kurple]

I have watched novak before. wanted the nuggets to add him one year. And korver > novak

[knickswin]

Noah and Tyson are pretty close. I like that Noah is a great team player and passer who isn't useless on offense when he's taken away from the basket (unlike Tyson . . . )

Tyson is bigger and more athletic though. He's usually the tallest guy on the court, and there aren't any centers who physically overwhelm him. He brings other types of intangibles. Swatting out rebounds for second possessions. great screens.

I dunno. It's all about preference and fit. I'd rather have Noah next to Amar'e than Tyson. I'd rather have Tyson next to Dirk than Noah. just depends.

[knickswin]

I have watched novak before. wanted the nuggets to add him one year. And korver > novak

okay, well I say he isn't. not if we're just talking about shooting. korver is more mobile which brings a lot of advantages. he and hamilton can curl off of screens and then make the hockey assist for easy baskets while the defense is confused. but there is no way korver is a better pure shooter than novak. if novak is open 30 feet from the basket I'm yelling at him to shoot it. korver isn't like that.

not to be rude, but you hate on the knicks a lot, so I don't think your opinion is completely unbiased . . .

[NewYorkNoPicks]

The Bulls have been injured extensively as well...

You didnt have Rip Hamilton...big deal.

We didn't have Baron Davis, Jeremy Lin didn't even exist, and JR Smith JUST signed the other day.

Which of the two scenerios do you think impacts a roster more?

[(e)]

You didnt have Rip Hamilton...big deal.

We didn't have Baron Davis, Jeremy Lin didn't even exist, and JR Smith JUST signed the other day.

Which of the two scenerios do you think impacts a roster more?
Rose has missed like 8 games. Dengs missed a few and has a torn ligament in his hand. Noah's missed. I think Booz is the only starter who has played every game.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Offensive talent? Yes

Defensive? Not close
The Knicks defense has been really good, but not good Bulls' good.

But that won't stop people from ragging on it.

And btw, the offensive potential of NY is higher than the Bulls' defense/offense, now whether we meet that potential is to be seen.

[Pharcyde]

tell me what the lottery is like... Melo teams have never had the privilege of experiencing it
Nuggets have a better record then the Knicks?

[Pharcyde]

You didnt have Rip Hamilton...big deal.

We didn't have Baron Davis, Jeremy Lin didn't even exist, and JR Smith JUST signed the other day.

Which of the two scenerios do you think impacts a roster more?
Deng, CJ Watson, Rose and Rip. The Knicks are still below .500 yet they have more talent? That's laughable. Every player in NY gets overrated.

[G-train]

Defence, teamwork and bball IQ are talents.
Bulls > knicks.

[Borderlands]

The Bulls have a good team but I still think the team thats gonna give the Knicks problems are the Heat as seen the game b4 allstar break vs the knicks

[Sarcastic]

I have watched novak before. wanted the nuggets to add him one year. And korver > novak

Novak >>> Korver

[Borderlands]

Defence, teamwork and bball IQ are talents.
Bulls > knicks.


Teamwork and chemistry go hand in hand and from these past few games ball movement in the offense is great. Bench players are playing vital roles and DAntoni is pondering a 10 man rotation.

SO no, The Bulls are not more talented then NY in teamwork

[Tenchi Ryu]

SO no, The Bulls are not more talented then NY in teamwork
Them being the number one team in Assists says otherwise...

[Borderlands]

The Knicks are just getting started with everyone healthy and a good PG that facilitates ball movement.

[knickswin]

the knicks play pretty good team ball, and will hopefully get better, but the bulls are easily best in the league in that regard.

and novak >>> korver.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The Knicks are just getting started with everyone healthy and a good PG that facilitates ball movement.
Yea, but its crazy to say their teamwork is better than Chicago's. Bulls literally run off good ball movement or chemistry. We have less than 5 people on our team who can create their own shot, they HAVE to look for each other's shots, or they just won't score.

[(e)]

Teamwork and chemistry go hand in hand and from these past few games ball movement in the offense is great. Bench players are playing vital roles and DAntoni is pondering a 10 man rotation.

SO no, The Bulls are not more talented then NY in teamwork
So you just discredit the fact that Chicago has been doing great for more than a few games?

Chicago leads the league in assists. The team moves the ball better than any team in the league. There is a reason Chicago is tied for the leagues best record...

[bluechox2]

the questions is do they have more talent...yes

pple with their knee jerk reactions

[Blue&Orange]

At least is impressive how the Knicks got so deep so quickly after the Melo trade.

[Rnbizzle]

Put Korver on a run and gun offense team like the Knicks and he'd get his shots too.. These guys are both great shooters but to say Novak >> Korver because of the shots he's getting is not really fair.

Korver has been in a slump recently, but let's not forget this is the same dude who posted record numbers for 3s three years ago(?)..

[dak121]

Jared Jeffries and Steve "only shoot threes" are the primary backup big men on the Knicks.

Mix that in with a soft rebounding Amare and that won't cut it against the Bulls group of bigs in terms of defense and rebounding. Even Boozer has played well against the Knicks and he usually bitches out against any decent frontline.

Talent doesn't win games alone. Bulls are simply a better team where it counts most. Knicks would have to shoot lights out from the perimeter to have a chance. They'll get no 2nd chance points.

[Sarcastic]

Put Korver on a run and gun offense team like the Knicks and he'd get his shots too.. These guys are both great shooters but to say Novak >> Korver because of the shots he's getting is not really fair.

Korver has been in a slump recently, but let's not forget this is the same dude who posted record numbers for 3s three years ago(?)..

3 years ago, Korver > Novak.

Today, Novak > Korver.

[It's A VC3!!!]

This debate doesn't really matter because the Bulls will get past the first round, whereas the Knicks won't. That is considering they maintain the 8th seed, or even push for 7th. No worries though, the Knicks future is bright. Not as bright as the soon to be Brooklyn Nets of course.

[barnett114]

The Knicks seemed like they got a bunch of talent all at once. JR Smith coming into town, Jared Jeffries, Steve Novak, Baron Davis and Iman Shumpert all coming off the bench.

Then you have the Lin who came out of nowhere, but seem like a solid PG with Melo, Amare and Chandler.

While they probably aren't the team that the Bulls are, do they have more talent than them?

No hey don't have more talent.

Carmelo and Amar'e are overrated.

[(e)]

A less talented team than the Knicks had the best record of all NBA teams last season? And is tied for the best record again this season?

This uber talented Knicks team already has 18 losses on the year, Chicago won't lose 18 games all season.

[Bigsmoke]

Derrick Rose>Jeremy Lin



dont forget to add more ">"s

[crisscutfries]

A less talented team than the Knicks had the best record of all NBA teams last season? And is tied for the best record again this season?

This uber talented Knicks team already has 18 losses on the year, Chicago won't lose 18 games all season.

Don't forget to credit Thibbs... D'antoni is a terrible coach.

In terms of talent... NYK has tons of young talent plus Melo.
Outside of Rose... the rest of his cast aren't spectacular compared to the Knicks...

[knickswin]

Put Korver on a run and gun offense team like the Knicks and he'd get his shots too.. These guys are both great shooters but to say Novak >> Korver because of the shots he's getting is not really fair.

Korver has been in a slump recently, but let's not forget this is the same dude who posted record numbers for 3s three years ago(?)..

korver shooting 50% from three for a season was a amazing, but he's been on a comparative "slump" for years, so I don't know if that season is even relevant anymore.

Novak probably benefits from only spotting up whereas Korver comes off of screens and curls a lot. but the other thing to note is where novak stands. he is money from about 5 places around the arc not including the corners. i have never seen anyone close to as good as novak at making 30 foot threes from the wings. they're almost lay ups to him. i expect them to go on. corner threes he is good, but so are a fair amount of players.

[ClutchOver9000]

korver shooting 50% from three for a season was a amazing, but he's been on a comparative "slump" for years, so I don't know if that season is even relevant anymore.

Novak probably benefits from only spotting up whereas Korver comes off of screens and curls a lot. but the other thing to note is where novak stands. he is money from about 5 places around the arc not including the corners. i have never seen anyone close to as good as novak at making 30 foot threes from the wings. they're almost lay ups to him. i expect them to go on. corner threes he is good, but so are a fair amount of players.

kutcher has been a very reputable 3 pt specialist but im biased in favor of novak so that's the guy i'd want hitting an 3, open or contested.

dude drains threes a good five feet deep behind the 3 pt line...ridiculous

[Bigsmoke]

they have better scores at top.... thats it.

Bulls are more talented when it comes to rebounding, defense, and at pretty much everything else including scoring as a unit right now.

[Clutch]

kutcher has been a very reputable 3 pt specialist but im biased in favor of novak so that's the guy i'd want hitting an 3, open or contested.

dude drains threes a good five feet deep behind the 3 pt line...ridiculous
:roll:

I also like Novak more than Korver.

But obviously I'm biased.

NOVAKAINE :bowdown:

[Micku]

The Knicks really surprise me. It's early and they still need to figure out what they want to do, but they are not scoring as easily as I thought they would. The bench seemed to have a nice balance than the starters. In the Celts vs Knicks game, Amare seemed to play better but they still didn't put the ball into the basket as easily as I thought. All of the starting five. Meanwhile the bench production seems much better in the past few games.

It's early, but it'll be a shame for them not to get over the hump and at least get to the second round of the playoffs. They have more talent. IMO, than Philly and the Pacers.

[Joey Zaza]

They have more talent than the Bulls but their pieces don't seem to fit as well. Also Chicago is leaps and bounds ahead on team chemistry while having more playoff experience and a better coach.

I like looking at a long thread...find one guy absolutely kill it on the first page and then try to figure out why it still goes on for 7 pages.

[LABean]

Opinion from a neutral party:

No. Carmelo is overrated.
Plus, according to a lot of Bulls fans, they have the 2011-2012 MVP, the 2nd best center, the defensive player of the year, the coach of the year, the best 3-point shooter, Rip "It's 2004" Hamilton, and the best bench.

Bench is good btw.

[Micku]

It amazes me that the Knicks are struggling. They have a lot of talent.

[dak121]

It amazes me that the Knicks are struggling. They have a lot of talent.

They're a bunch of guys that have never played with each other so this is basically a late, late version of preseason that they're going through.

They'll develop 'some' chemistry but D'Antoni is holding them back with that chucker-ball stuff he loves so much.

[FKAri]

Are we including the coaches in the talent comparison? :oldlol:

[Clutch]

It amazes me that the Knicks are struggling. They have a lot of talent.
http://s13.postimage.org/5furvdfef/d_antoni_idiot.jpg

[Dengness9]

I originally would have said the Knicks at first glance. But looking further into it...

As good as Melo is or can be, he's the 2nd best player of the two teams. Derrick Rose is clearly the most talented IMO. And I really have always been a Melo fan.


If Amare gets an edge over Booz at this point, it's VERY slight, cuz let's face it Bulls/Knicks fans.....they are aging regressing former allstars.

Looking at Deng.....he isn't as talented as Melo, but with the way he plays defense, he is one of the best 2 way SF's in the L, and will never catch Melo as far as value goes for a player, but is pretty close behind evidenced by making the All-star team this year.

Noah and Chandler are very comparable as I already said previously in this thread, and both play with great passion and energy. Chandler had a better first half, but Noah is going OFF in the 2nd half. Had he played like this earlier, Roy Hibbert wouldn't be the East's reserve Center.

Lin is talented but we still need more time to really see what his career becomes.

JR Smith is uber talented but I would take Ronnie Brewer over him all day. More dependable, 2 way player, gives max effort and has nice size. Is much more coachable, accepts his role.

Novak has been awesome, move over Korver, but don't underrate Korver at the same time. He, like Novak, hits big 3's for his team.

Cj Watson/Asik/Gibson are moderately talented as well.

Shumpert has nice potential.

[97 bulls]

I dont see what makes amare statemire better than boozer. Neither play anything remotely close to defense. Boozer has a much better post game, they have even jump shooting ability, boozers a better passer. What makes amare better?

[SacJB Shady]

I dont see what makes amare statemire better than boozer. Neither play anything remotely close to defense. Boozer has a much better post game, they have even jump shooting ability, boozers a better passer. What makes amare better?


scores more, can dunk better, u got to admit that part

[Shepseskaf]

Are we including the coaches in the talent comparison? :oldlol:
Good question, and we all know how that comparison would work out.

Pringles fails completely, except when he has the perfect players for his "system". That was in Phx, not in NY.