And then Pippen did this...

[305Baller]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/693172_o.gif

[97 bulls]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship

[97 bulls]

But the tradeoff would've beeen the bulls not being nearly as dominant

[imdaman99]

and then he takes himself out of a game at the end :lol so much for being a leader :lol

[305Baller]

LeBron would have passed it to Kukoc.

:D

...because he is unselfish like that.

[bizil]

and then he takes himself out of a game at the end :lol so much for being a leader :lol

Great point! Pip is no doubt a top GOAT SF and a revolutionary player. In many ways he combined the athletic ability of Dr. J with the great all around ability of Hondo. The only difference is he never proved to be an alpha dog type like J or Hondo. If Pip would have showed that ability more often, I feel he would be a top 15 player of all time. Because dude had six rings, a couple of gold medals, redefined his position, and is arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time. What stopped Pip from being a top 15 player was the alpha dog gene. He had so much going for him that he could have been ranked higher on the GOAT charts if he showed that more.

[Kews1]

:applause:

[Jotaro Durant]

pippen on ewing was better than jordan on ewing:rockon:

[WeGetRing2012]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship

He couldn't lead the Blazers with a 15 point lead in the 4th :facepalm

[bizil]

He couldn't lead the Blazers with a 15 point lead in the 4th :facepalm

Great point! Once again it shows that Pip lacked that alpha dog gene. Bron catches heat for alpha dog shit. But Bron completely dominates a game from the start. It's just in the waning moments where he might not be on the level of a Kobe, Bird, MJ, or Magic perimeter wise. But Bron still in my book qualifies as an alpha dog. That series against the Pistons back in the day and gettin that Cavs team to the Finals proved that. Pip was never even on Bron's level in alpha dog type shit.

[thelucifer69]

pippen on ewing was better than jordan on ewing:rockon:

Yea Cause Pippen taller longer wingspan, Erwing was older and he didn't even jump that make sense :roll: :roll: :roll:

[IamRAMBO24]

Great point! Pip is no doubt a top GOAT SF and a revolutionary player. In many ways he combined the athletic ability of Dr. J with the great all around ability of Hondo. The only difference is he never proved to be an alpha dog type like J or Hondo. If Pip would have showed that ability more often, I feel he would be a top 15 player of all time. Because dude had six rings, a couple of gold medals, redefined his position, and is arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time. What stopped Pip from being a top 15 player was the alpha dog gene. He had so much going for him that he could have been ranked higher on the GOAT charts if he showed that more.

Haha really?

Let's not forget he can't shoot worth a damn (or doing anything of much use without Jordan by his side) at the perimeter could be a slight problem.

[abraxas666]

Haha really?

Let's not forget he can't shoot worth a damn (or doing anything of much use without Jordan by his side) at the perimeter could be a slight problem.

There's truth in your words, Pippen wasnt the best shooter. His 3 point shot was not consistent enough, but he had a good mid range jumper along with plenty of finishing moves around the basket.

But stating he could not do anything of use without Jordan is just plain delusional, and shows extreme bias IMO.

[Chapallaz]

Question: Do you have to be a leader or alpha dog to be considered a better player than some other greatest players who were alpha dogs? I dont think so.

[swi7ch]

Pete Myers :roll:

[Glide2keva]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/693172_o.gif
I was there for this one.

[IamRAMBO24]

There's truth in your words, Pippen wasnt the best shooter. His 3 point shot was not consistent enough, but he had a good mid range jumper along with plenty of finishing moves around the basket.

But stating he could not do anything of use without Jordan is just plain delusional, and shows extreme bias IMO.

Well considering he didn't do much after Jordan retired shows some truth to my statement.

Pippen is just another Trevor Ariza lucky enough to play off of Jordan.

[dak121]

Well considering he didn't do much after Jordan retired shows some truth to my statement.

Pippen is just another Trevor Ariza lucky enough to play off of Jordan.

Honest question.

Are you a ****ing idiot?

[IamRAMBO24]

I don't like this whole argument about how Pippen is not alpha enough to lead a team.

That's just an excuse for him not being good enough. He doesn't create shots well, can't run the offense like a true point guard, his post moves are questionable, and his spot up shots aren't worth a damn.

I would be pretty insecure too if I had that many flaws in my offense. Trust me, Pippen wanted to be alpha, especially when he went all cry baby over that Kukoc shot, but his abilities, or lack thereof, makes him nothing more than Jordan's sidekick b*atch.

[IamRAMBO24]

Honest question.

Are you a ****ing idiot?

What?

It's an honest observation.

I have never seen a so call "star" ride the balls of another player that much before. At least Kobe had his 2 championship rings to show for and Malone was at least a bit productive when Stockton retired.

Pippen just did a 360 degree Lamar Odom crash dive when he does not have Jordan clenching his small hairy balls (prob lopsided too which explains his horrible slanted release)

How anyone can call him a true star is beyond me.

[Xiao Yao You]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship

There's plenty of doubt rather he would have even been an all star if he hadn't been traded to the Bulls.

[Glide2keva]

There's plenty of doubt rather he would have even been an all star if he hadn't been traded to the Bulls.Whether.

[IamRAMBO24]

My bad for comparing him to Ariza.

Ariza is a much better perimeter shooter.

[97 bulls]

Lol what a bunch of dumbasses. Especially bizil. Im sorry biz. But I've shown you instances of pippen taking over games and you just want to overlook that. Its not
pippens fault that his to prime coincided with jordan. And thus didn't have a fair enough opportunity to like magic or kobe. What's more, only on insidehoops could a player that won 6the championships two gold medals, has the second highest all-time win percentage, regarded as the best wing defender ever, I could go on and on, be penalized for not avg 25 ppg.

[97 bulls]

There's plenty of doubt rather he would have even been an all star if he hadn't been traded to the Bulls.
Nope

[97 bulls]

Well considering he didn't do much after Jordan retired shows some truth to my statement.

Pippen is just another Trevor Ariza lucky enough to play off of Jordan.
He was 33. Jesus Christ

[97 bulls]

He couldn't lead the Blazers with a 15 point lead in the 4th :facepalm
He led the bulls back from a 15 point lead in game 6 of 92 with jordan on the bench.

[Roundball_Rock]

He led the bulls back from a 15 point lead in game 6 of 92 with jordan on the bench.

Yeah--that 15 point fourth quarter comeback involving the Blazers is conveniently ignored by Pippen's detractors. Regarding 2000, he was 34, his 98' finals injury made him a vastly inferior player and he injured his hand in Game 5, which caused his shot to be off the rest of the series. (before that he torched the Lakers early in Game 5 to set the tone to keep Portland alive) The idea that it was prime Pippen on the 2000 Blazers is absurd.

Regarding leadership, everyone involved with the Bulls--especially his teammates (Bill Wennington said he would draft Pippen over anyone in history because of how great a teammate he was, Kerr picked him second in TNT's all-time draft partly due to this as well)--note how much of a leader he was. Whenever they needed inspiration or support it was Pippen who Bulls players turned to. To equate scoring with leadership is ridiculous. It is funny how the leading scorer is almost always presumed to be the team leader, as if there is a correlation between leadership skills and the ability to put a ball through a basket.

The Jordan argument is laughable. Pippen was #1 in all-NBA and #1 in all-defensive and #3 in MVP voting in his only full prime season without MJ and the Bulls finished only 2 games out of the top seed in the East despite having a CBA (D-League) scrub at SG. Had he not been hurt during the first 10 games the Bulls likely would have won the #1 seed and Pippen would have been #1 or #2 in MVP voting.

[bwink23]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship


Yeah....cuz he was well on his way to that after 1994 when they were 34-31, or when he went to Rockets and stacked Blazer team that failed. :rolleyes:

[97 bulls]

Yeah--that 15 point fourth quarter comeback involving the Blazers is conveniently ignored by Pippen's detractors. Regarding 2000, he was 34, his 98' finals injury made him a vastly inferior player and he injured his hand in Game 5, which caused his shot to be off the rest of the series. (before that he torched the Lakers early in Game 5 to set the tone to keep Portland alive) The idea that it was prime Pippen on the 2000 Blazers is absurd.

Regarding leadership, everyone involved with the Bulls--especially his teammates (Bill Wennington said he would draft Pippen over anyone in history because of how great a teammate he was, Kerr picked him second in TNT's all-time draft partly due to this as well)--note how much of a leader he was. Whenever they needed inspiration or support it was Pippen who Bulls players turned to. To equate scoring with leadership is ridiculous. It is funny how the leading scorer is almost always presumed to be the team leader, as if there is a correlation between leadership skills and the ability to put a ball through a basket.

The Jordan argument is laughable. Pippen was #1 in all-NBA and #1 in all-defensive and #3 in MVP voting in his only full prime season without MJ and the Bulls finished only 2 games out of the top seed in the East despite having a CBA (D-League) scrub at SG. Had he not been hurt during the first 10 games the Bulls likely would have won the #1 seed and Pippen would have been #1 or #2 in MVP voting.
Nice post rock. The probleem is these guys have a clear agenda. What makes it worse is how hypocritical some of these posters are. Especially bizil

[bwink23]

Yeah--that 15 point fourth quarter comeback involving the Blazers is conveniently ignored by Pippen's detractors. Regarding 2000, he was 34, his 98' finals injury made him a vastly inferior player and he injured his hand in Game 5, which caused his shot to be off the rest of the series. (before that he torched the Lakers early in Game 5 to set the tone to keep Portland alive) The idea that it was prime Pippen on the 2000 Blazers is absurd.

Regarding leadership, everyone involved with the Bulls--especially his teammates (Bill Wennington said he would draft Pippen over anyone in history because of how great a teammate he was, Kerr picked him second in TNT's all-time draft partly due to this as well)--note how much of a leader he was. Whenever they needed inspiration or support it was Pippen who Bulls players turned to. To equate scoring with leadership is ridiculous. It is funny how the leading scorer is almost always presumed to be the team leader, as if there is a correlation between leadership skills and the ability to put a ball through a basket.

The Jordan argument is laughable. Pippen was #1 in all-NBA and #1 in all-defensive and #3 in MVP voting in his only full prime season without MJ and the Bulls finished only 2 games out of the top seed in the East despite having a CBA (D-League) scrub at SG. Had he not been hurt during the first 10 games the Bulls likely would have won the #1 seed and Pippen would have been #1 or #2 in MVP voting.


that 1994 team had 11-12 solid role players who had a hand in 2 separate 3-peat championship teams. :no:

How fitting to act like the Bulls were the same team from one year prior by just stating "they added a CBA scrub", even though Myers was an excellent defender....with additions of Kukoc (4 game winners that year), Steve Kerr, Bill Wennington, and Luc Longley, all part of the second 3-peat team.

You overrate Pippen as hell...he was a great 2-man, probably the best 2 man, but a #1 man he is not. :hammerhead:

[97 bulls]

Yeah....cuz he was well on his way to that after 1994 when they were 34-31, or when he went to Rockets and stacked Blazer team that failed. :rolleyes:
The rocket were old. By the time he went to the blazers, he was almost 35. Come on.

We both are jordan fans Wink. I've seen you give jordan a pass for not winning pre 90s due to lack of talent. Why hold pippen to a different standard?

[bwink23]

The rocket were old. By the time he went to the blazers, he was almost 35. Come on.

We both are jordan fans Wink. I've seen you give jordan a pass for not winning pre 90s due to lack of talent. Why hold pippen to a different standard?


Pippen never played with a lack of talent....:facepalm

[97 bulls]

Pippen never played with a lack of talent....:facepalm
Lol when as a perimeter player you have to lead your team in every. Statistical catgory to stay afloat and run the offense, and take on the toughest defensive assignments. That's a clear indication your team overall lacks talent.

[97 bulls]

that 1994 team had 11-12 solid role players who had a hand in 2 separate 3-peat championship teams. :no:

How fitting to act like the Bulls were the same team from one year prior by just stating "they added a CBA scrub", even though Myers was an excellent defender....with additions of Kukoc (4 game winners that year), Steve Kerr, Bill Wennington, and Luc Longley, all part of the second 3-peat team.

You overrate Pippen as hell...he was a great 2-man, probably the best 2 man, but a #1 man he is not. :hammerhead:
Then its clear jordan isn't nearly as great as you feel. How else can you take the stance that the bulls should've still won without jordan.

[bwink23]

Lol when as a perimeter player you have to lead your team in every. Statistical catgory to stay afloat and run the offense, and take on the toughest defensive assignments. That's a clear indication your team overall lacks talent.


Actually, Pippen statistically was significantly not much better than he was in 1992 or 1993. That's an indication that he has teammates filling in the holes as well...Pippen wasn't filling those holes by himself.....like i already stated....count the rings on all the role player's fingers that were on the 1994 team and get back to me about "lack of talent."

A 3-peat championship team with the additions they made doesn't just disappear without Jordan or become "lack of talent." Don't forget about Pippen sitting down in a crucial playoff game, that's inexcusable.

[bwink23]

Then its clear jordan isn't nearly as great as you feel. How else can you take the stance that the bulls should've still won without jordan.



That doesn't even merit a response.....:rolleyes:

[97 bulls]

That doesn't even merit a response.....:rolleyes:
Lol but you just stated that you feel they should've won in 94. That the only difference between the 93 bulls and 94 bulls was jordan. And then make it seem as if the 94 bulls may even be better than 93 cuz 94 had kukoc. What am I missing? It saying the bulls won in spite of jordan being there. Not cuz of jordan.

[bwink23]

Then its clear jordan isn't nearly as great as you feel. How else can you take the stance that the bulls should've still won without jordan.


nd now for the next installment of the "silly argument that we're having because Scottie Pippen said something." If you missed it or tried to make yourself forget, Pippen said that LeBron James may be a better overall basketball player than Michael Jordan. As a result, there was quite a bit of harumphing and yelling.

LeBron accepted the compliment from Pippen but ultimately disagreed. Well, add in former Chicago teammate Horace Grant as someone that doesn't agree with Pippen. Via Sports Radio Interviews:

[bwink23]

Lol but you just stated that you feel they should've won in 94. That the only difference between the 93 bulls and 94 bulls was jordan. And then make it seem as if the 94 bulls may even be better than 93 cuz 94 had kukoc. What am I missing? It saying the bulls won in spite of jordan being there. Not cuz of jordan.


Pull the quote where i said they should have won in 1994, what are you laughing about???

[AMISTILLILL]

Get a room homos.

[97 bulls]

Actually, Pippen statistically was significantly not much better than he was in 1992 or 1993. That's an indication that he has teammates filling in the holes as well...Pippen wasn't filling those holes by himself.....like i already stated....count the rings on all the role player's fingers that were on the 1994 team and get back to me about "lack of talent."

A 3-peat championship team with the additions they made doesn't just disappear without Jordan or become "lack of talent." Don't forget about Pippen sitting down in a crucial playoff game, that's inexcusable.
Lol I was referencing 95.

First of all, we all acknowledge pippen sittting out was a terrible move. But don't forget he wanted the shot. That decision he made seems used to paint a picture that jackson drew the play for him and he was so scared, he just couldn't bring himself to re-enter the game.

Saying that, let's address the differences between the 94 team and 93. Jordan wasn't there obviously in 94. Scott williams was hurt most of the season, same with cartwright. And they had lost trent tucker. Paxson also was used sparringly in 94. That's 5 players that played a huge role on that 93 bulls team. Literrally half of the bulls core. Do you agree?

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=bwink23]nd now for the next installment of the "silly argument that we're having because Scottie Pippen said something." If you missed it or tried to make yourself forget, Pippen said that LeBron James may be a better overall basketball player than Michael Jordan. As a result, there was quite a bit of harumphing and yelling.

LeBron accepted the compliment from Pippen but ultimately disagreed. Well, add in former Chicago teammate Horace Grant as someone that doesn't agree with Pippen. Via Sports Radio Interviews:

[97 bulls]

Pull the quote where i said they should have won in 1994, what are you laughing about???
You said pippen was always on stacked teams. Arent you the one saying pippen is overrated cuz he didn't lead a stacked bulls team is to a championship in 94?

[bwink23]

Lol I was referencing 95.

First of all, we all acknowledge pippen sittting out was a terrible move. But don't forget he wanted the shot. That decision he made seems used to paint a picture that jackson drew the play for him and he was so scared, he just couldn't bring himself to re-enter the game.

Saying that, let's address the differences between the 94 team and 93. Jordan wasn't there obviously in 94. Scott williams was hurt most of the season, same with cartwright. And they had lost trent tucker. Paxson also was used sparringly in 94. That's 5 players that played a huge role on that 93 bulls team. Literrally half of the bulls core. Do you agree?

Sure i can agree with that.

[TheNaturalWR]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship
:facepalm

[bwink23]

You said pippen was always on stacked teams. Arent you the one saying pippen is overrated cuz he didn't lead a stacked bulls team is to a championship in 94?


Pippen WAS always on stacked teams.

[bwink23]

You said pippen was always on stacked teams. Arent you the one saying pippen is overrated cuz he didn't lead a stacked bulls team is to a championship in 94?


NOPE...i'm saying he's overrated by YOU thinking he's a #1 option which he is clearly NOT. :no:

[97 bulls]

Sure i can agree with that.
Then why say they were essentially the same team? They weren't actually. I mean the names were on the roster, but their roles drastically changed.

Understand that im a huge jordan fan like you. I put so much stock in jordans role on that 91-93bulls team that when jordan retired, I literally saw the bulls as a .500 team. And what the bulls did in 94 in no way degrades jordan. But just shows how great the bulls were.

I see the 94 bulls as being the 96 bulls minus jordan and with rodman replacing grant. And that's why they won 72 games

[97 bulls]

NOPE...i'm saying he's overrated by YOU thinking he's a #1 option which he is clearly NOT. :no:
Lol number 1 option? Or best player on a championship caliber team/leader? Scoring alot of point wasn't pippens game. I remember in an interview jackson said pippen could've avg more ppg in 94, but that it would've been at the expense of wins. Pipppen had more of a PGs mentality.

So I agree, pippen should be looked at as a number 1 option type player

[Lebron23]

Lol number 1 option? Or best player on a championship caliber team/leader? Scoring alot of point wasn't pippens game. I remember in an interview jackson said pippen could've avg more ppg in 94, but that it would've been at the expense of wins. Pipppen had more of a PGs mentality.

So I agree, pippen should be looked at as a number 1 option type player


Who's a better franchise player Prime Scottie Pippen or Current Derrick Rose?

[bwink23]

Then why say they were essentially the same team? They weren't actually. I mean the names were on the roster, but their roles drastically changed.

Understand that im a huge jordan fan like you. I put so much stock in jordans role on that 91-93bulls team that when jordan retired, I literally saw the bulls as a .500 team. And what the bulls did in 94 in no way degrades jordan. But just shows how great the bulls were.

I see the 94 bulls as being the 96 bulls minus jordan and with rodman replacing grant. And that's why they won 72 games


Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong were the CORE of that championship team. That was well in tact. What the Bulls had were 3-PEAT bound role players stepping in and filling voids. This was far from a DEFUNCT team. They had nice additions....your claim that this team had a "lack of talent" is laughable....


Whatever "changed" was merely replaced by future players of another 3-PEAT championship squad.

The Bulls won 15 games that year with Pippen scoring less than 20 points. Someone was filling that scoring void, it sure as hell wasn't Pippen. To his credit, he was a GREAT all-around player, and could literally do everything. But he didn't somehow throw a worthless team on his back and carry them to 55 wins.

[bwink23]

Lol number 1 option? Or best player on a championship caliber team/leader? Scoring alot of point wasn't pippens game. I remember in an interview jackson said pippen could've avg more ppg in 94, but that it would've been at the expense of wins. Pipppen had more of a PGs mentality.

So I agree, pippen should be looked at as a number 1 option type player


Pippen was never, would never, could never be a #1 option that could take a team to a championship....PERIOD


The Bulls won 18 of the 72 games (32.7% of their games won) Pippen played with him averaging this:

16.4 points
8.9 rebs.
6.6 assists
2.9 steals
1.1 blocks..........now tell me he had a "lack of talent"

[97 bulls]

Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong were the CORE of that championship team. That was well in tact. What the Bulls had were 3-PEAT bound role players stepping in and filling voids. This was far from a DEFUNCT team. They had nice additions....your claim that this team had a "lack of talent" is laughable....


Whatever "changed" was merely replaced by future players of another 3-PEAT championship squad.

The Bulls won 15 games that year with Pippen scoring less than 20 points. Someone was filling that scoring void, it sure as hell wasn't Pippen. To his credit, he was a GREAT all-around player, and could literally do everything. But he didn't somehow throw a worthless team on his back and carry them to 55 wins.
That void was michal jordan wink. Saying that is how you undermine jordan. Horace grant and bj armstrong don't count as void fillers cuz they were on that 93 bulls team too. The void filler was former cba journeymen pete myers and rookie kukoc.

[rodman91]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship

You give up from Jordan to see him win mvp & dpoy? I wish Jordan never retired, so we could get 8 in a row.

[bwink23]

That void was michal jordan wink. Saying that is how you undermine jordan. Horace grant and bj armstrong don't count as void fillers cuz they were on that 93 bulls team too. The void filler was former cba journeymen pete myers and rookie kukoc.

The void fillers were pete myers, kukoc, steve kerr, luc longley and bill wennington....all those guys stepped up when needed COLLECTIVELY. And still got good minutes from the other players....your assumption that the Bulls would have been .500 is your DOWNFALL. The only way you look to justify it is through Pippen. That's ridiculous. And yes, Horace Grant and B.J. do count as void fillers cuz they stepped up their game....Apparently Pippen is the only guy who gets to do that huh, LOL!!!!!!!

The Bulls were 20-10 (.667 winning %) with Pippen scoring 20 points or less....

16.8ppg, 8.8 rebs. 5.3 assists...2.6 steals....0.8 blocks....while being a 66% FT shooter.

Obviously, your assumption on the Bulls demise was GREATLY EXAGGERATED.

IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING.....a .667 winning % translates to 55 wins over the course of 82 games...

[rodman91]

Who's a better franchise player Prime Scottie Pippen or Current Derrick Rose?

Pippen. But i think Rose showing more heart & leading ability.

[bwink23]

You give up from Jordan to see him win mvp & dpoy? I wish Jordan never retired, so we could get 8 in a row.


Can you imagine Jordan teaming up with Barkley and Olajuwon and NOT winning a championship?? :hammerhead:

[andgar923]

LOL Pippen fans once again forgetting who made him.

[97 bulls]

Can you imagine Jordan teaming up with Barkley and Olajuwon and NOT winning a championship?? :hammerhead:
Pippen ain't jordan.

[97 bulls]

Can you imagine Jordan teaming up with Barkley and Olajuwon and NOT winning a championship?? :hammerhead:
This isn't a comparison between jordan and pippen.

[hitmanyr2k]

The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year :facepalm

[bizil]

Lol what a bunch of dumbasses. Especially bizil. Im sorry biz. But I've shown you instances of pippen taking over games and you just want to overlook that. Its not
pippens fault that his to prime coincided with jordan. And thus didn't have a fair enough opportunity to like magic or kobe. What's more, only on insidehoops could a player that won 6the championships two gold medals, has the second highest all-time win percentage, regarded as the best wing defender ever, I could go on and on, be penalized for not avg 25 ppg.

Here we go again with your bitch ass. The bottom line is Pippen is not what u look for in a true number one scoring option. Pip is still a great player, but he's not that guy. Sure Pip HAD HIS MOMENTS! But he didn't do it consistently enough to be considered a number one scoring option u can build a team around. That year MJ left for baseball, Pip needed to score more buckets for that team to be successful. That was the time for Pip to step up and assume that mantle. Sure he had an MVP caliber year.

But if HE TRULY HAD THE ALPHA DOG GENE IT WOULDN'T HAVE COME DOWN TO THAT BULLSHIT CALL IN THE KNICKS SERIES. Even a guy like Lebron would have got that Bulls team farther than Pippen did. Because Lebron is a dominant scorer when he needs to be, even though he may not be as clutch as we would like. Bron puts the foot on the gas scoring wise early in addition to bringing his epic all around game. Guys like Bron, MJ, Kobe, Wade, Bird, etc. simply have another gear, two, or three that Pippen CANNOT match in terms of scoring dominance.

THESE ARE FACTS BITCH AND NO OPINION! So take Pip's dick outta your mouth, stop juggling his balls, and face reality BITCH! But then again Pip busted a nut in your eye so u aren't CAPABLE of seeing the truth BITCH ASS! Dont ever test me on here again. Pip simply couldn't will a team to victory scoring the way other great all around players could. That '94 season proved that. U put MJ or a Lebron in place of Pip on that team and that Bulls team has a WAY BETTER chance at a ring. Reason being is because they put the foot on the gas scoring wise in ways Pip NEVER COULD! Even with Bron's faults down at moments, he's clearly a dominant alpha dog type scorer who has the third best PPG career average of all time!

[bwink23]

The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year :facepalm


No one said Pippen had it easy...but he far from CARRIED that team. They were NOT short of talent.

20-10 while averaging 16 points a game...LOL

the Bulls were imploding before Jordan's arrival...sure they won 8 of 10 just before he returned...but most of those wins were vs. the bottom feeder teams in the league.


Pippen is not, and never could be a #1 option that could carry a team to a championship.

[bizil]

With all of Pippen's accolades:

2 time gold medalist
Six NBA titles
7 time All Star
7 time All NBA
10 time All NBA
Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time
Revolutionized the small forward position

Why isn't he ranked higher on the GOAT list? He has more rings than:

Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Bird

He's tied with:

MJ
Kareem

The only guy with more rings than him in the top 10 GOAT players ever is Russell! Guys like Dr. J, West, Hakeem, Big O, Barkley, Karl and Moses Malone, Isiah, Hondo, Baylor, and Barry are all usually ranked ahead of Pippen historically. Guys like like KG, Dirk, Bron, and Wade will pass him by. So the question is why is Pippen only ranked on most GOAT list in the late 20's to early 30's at the highest? It's because MOST OF THE OTHER GUYS RANKED AHEAD OF HIM are ALPHA DOG TYPE GUYS! And I don't wanna hear he played with MJ and deferred. U had these great tandems:

West-Baylor
Magic-Kareem
Big O-Kareem
Dr.J-Moses
Kobe-Shaq

Now u have Bron-Wade and even Durant-Westbrook. All of these tandems have two alpha dog type guys and these tandems THRIVED! So that's no excuse for Pip! He simply was a great all around player who doesn't look to takeover a game consistently enough when needed scoring. Or Pip doesn't put the foot on the gas scoring like these other guys. Sure Pip has aveaged 23 points in a season. But he still doesn't put the foot on the gas like the great scorers do. Even PG's like Westbrook, Rose, Isiah, Frazier, Big O, Magic, Payton, Isiah, Tiny, Nash, CP3, and DWill are ALL better than Pip in that aspect. So u can be a pass first player who puts the foot on the gas scoring when it is needed.

[hitmanyr2k]

No one said Pippen had it easy...but he far from CARRIED that team. They were NOT short of talent.

20-10 while averaging 16 points a game...LOL

the Bulls were imploding before Jordan's arrival...sure they won 8 of 10 just before he returned...but most of those wins were vs. the bottom feeder teams in the league.


Pippen is not, and never could be a #1 option that could carry a team to a championship.

I don't give a shit what Pippen scored during wins. If the Bulls were flowing as a team Pippen wasn't some stat whore that had to pad his stats to make himself look good. Even on nights when he had it going he still wasn't the kind of guy to just keep taking shot after shot. It was all about getting the win. Tim Duncan was a similar player. His stats didn't jump out at you every night (even when the Spurs won) but it's not hard to see he was the one who made that Spurs team go. Stats never tell the whole story. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

And what kind of dumbass factors in points only while ignoring playmaking, rebounding, defense? Maybe Pippen should have ignored the other facets of the game and just became a one dimensional scorer so idiots 15-20 years later could read box scores and look solely at scoring :facepalm

[bwink23]

I don't give a shit what Pippen scored during wins. If the Bulls were flowing as a team Pippen wasn't some stat whore that had to pad his stats to make himself look good. Even on nights when he had it going he still wasn't the kind of guy to just keep taking shot after shot. It was all about getting the win. Tim Duncan was a similar player. His stats didn't jump out at you every night (even when the Spurs won) but it's not hard to see he was the one who made that Spurs team go. Stats never tell the whole story. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

And what kind of dumbass factors in points only while ignoring playmaking, rebounding, defense? Maybe Pippen should have ignored the other facets of the game and just became a one dimensional scorer so idiots 15-20 years later could read box scores and look solely at scoring :facepalm


I've already posted Pippen's all-around numbers...good yes, but similar to what he had done in years past. He was not, and never could be a #1 option that could take a team to a championship...:facepalm

[bizil]

Question: Do you have to be a leader or alpha dog to be considered a better player than some other greatest players who were alpha dogs? I dont think so.

In certain cases u are correct. But when u are compared to great all around players who are ALSO ALPHA DOGS like MJ, Kobe, Bron, Wade, Magic, Bird, Hondo, and Big O, there is NO ARGUMENT Pip has over these guys. Because they are amongst the greatest all around AND the greatest in terms of scoring ability. I would even take certain scoring machines like Nique, Bernard King, Durant, and Dr.J over Pippen as well. GOAT wise Pippen is ranked over many guys because he revolutionized a position AND accumulated a great resume. But peak value wise, I would take a Nique, Dr.J, Durant, or Bernard King over Pippen. They are so dominant scoring the ball and can carry teams. Which is something Pip didn't show consistently enough.

[bwink23]

I've been watching Pippen since DAY ONE he entered the league...He is not THAT GUY who can put a team on his back when needed and come through in the most critical situations. Pip was a GREAT player, one of the most complete in NBA history. But, he simply wasn't a #1 option player.

[bizil]

I've already posted Pippen's all-around numbers...good yes, but similar to what he had done in years past. He was not, and never could be a #1 option that could take a team to a championship...:facepalm

I agree 100%! I don't see why people get so defensive about this. Pip was still a great player and HOFer. Guys like Stockton and Rodman are legends without being a number one option guy. Kidd will soon be in the HOF as well. Arguably Mutumbo will be in. Many of us have NEVER said Pip wasn't a great player. Many of us have NEVER said Pip sucked at scoring. But number one option shit isn't what made Pip a legend. Redefining his position and becoming arguably the greatest perimeter defender EVER is what made Pip a legend. If I had to pick one perimeter defender to check a MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, or Wade, Pip would most likely be my pick.

[bwink23]

I agree 100%! I don't see why people get so defensive about this. Pip was still a great player and HOFer. Guys like Stockton and Rodman are legends without being a number one option guy. Kidd will soon be in the HOF as well. Arguably Mutumbo will be in. Many of us have NEVER said Pip wasn't a great player. Many of us have NEVER said Pip sucked at scoring. But number one option shit isn't what made Pip a legend. Redefining his position and becoming arguably the greatest perimeter defender EVER is what made Pip a legend. If I had to pick one perimeter defender to check a MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, or Wade, Pip would most likely be my pick.


I agree....Pippen could be known as the best #2 guy ever, he's certainly in that discussion. It gets silly when people think he was a #1 option guy who could take a team to a championship. That's where the idiocy needs to stop.

[Maestro33]

The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year


ABSOLUTELY! One of the sharpest responses Ive ever seen on here. TY!

[97 bulls]

With all of Pippen's accolades:

2 time gold medalist
Six NBA titles
7 time All Star
7 time All NBA
10 time All NBA
Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time
Revolutionized the small forward position

Why isn't he ranked higher on the GOAT list? He has more rings than:

Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Bird

He's tied with:

MJ
Kareem

The only guy with more rings than him in the top 10 GOAT players ever is Russell! Guys like Dr. J, West, Hakeem, Big O, Barkley, Karl and Moses Malone, Isiah, Hondo, Baylor, and Barry are all usually ranked ahead of Pippen historically. Guys like like KG, Dirk, Bron, and Wade will pass him by. So the question is why is Pippen only ranked on most GOAT list in the late 20's to early 30's at the highest? It's because MOST OF THE OTHER GUYS RANKED AHEAD OF HIM are ALPHA DOG TYPE GUYS! And I don't wanna hear he played with MJ and deferred. U had these great tandems:

West-Baylor
Magic-Kareem
Big O-Kareem
Dr.J-Moses
Kobe-Shaq

Now u have Bron-Wade and even Durant-Westbrook. All of these tandems have two alpha dog type guys and these tandems THRIVED! So that's no excuse for Pip! He simply was a great all around player who doesn't look to takeover a game consistently enough when needed scoring. Or Pip doesn't put the foot on the gas scoring like these other guys. Sure Pip has aveaged 23 points in a season. But he still doesn't put the foot on the gas like the great scorers do. Even PG's like Westbrook, Rose, Isiah, Frazier, Big O, Magic, Payton, Isiah, Tiny, Nash, CP3, and DWill are ALL better than Pip in that aspect. So u can be a pass first player who puts the foot on the gas scoring when it is needed.
He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?

[bizil]

He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?

Magic clearly showed he was an alpha dog! He showed that his rookie year with 42 points, 15 boards, and 7 dimes winning a title. He stepped up for Kareem in a way Pippen NEVER could! Magic was a pass first PG who could turn into an alpha dog and takeover a game scoring. U are correct about Russell. But Russell has such an insane amount of rings and revolutionized the center position. So that's why he's regarded a top 6-7 GOAT of all time. I tend to even think that Russell is slightly overrated. Peak value wise at best I have Russell number 10 amongst centers. Give me Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, David, Ewing, Walton, and McAdoo over Russell. And to be frank, guys like Bellamy, Howard, Zo, Thurmond, and Gilmore peak value wise I would maybe consider over Russell as well.

I don't overvalue scoring. Whoever has the most points, runs, or goals in a game WINS THE GAME! ITS THE ONLY STAT THAT GUARANTEES A WIN 100% OF THE TIME! So their is ALWAYS a premium for scoring at EVERY POSITION other than PG. In other words if needed, these guys can go off for 40 or 50 points when needed. Or they can score 10-15 consecutive points and go on a tear. Or they can have 15 points going into the fourth quarter and end up with 30 points at the end of the game. Or if anything u tell everybody else GET THE HELL OUT THE WAY and they takeover. Pip never had these moments consistently enough to be considered a true blue number one option. And even most of the GOAT PG's are known to carry teams and go on scoring binges CONSISTENTLY.


When it comes to McHale vs. Pippen, GOAT wise Pip might rank higher. In terms of peak value, I would rather have McHale. McHale has arguably the best back to basket game of all time, could play and defend three positions, and he also had a very good faceup midrange game. McHale is one of the most versatile Power Forwards of all time. He was way more versatile than guys like Petitt, Malone, Dave D, Hayes, etc. It takes guys like a Barkley, Webber, KG, or Duncan to top McHale in that aspect. And when u throw in his defensive versatility, that number even gets lower.

[bizil]

He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?

U keep missing the point. He didn't have to flat out lead the team for ten years. He had to show he was capable of being a guy u can build your team around. And capable of taking over a game scoring. That's why Pippen is ranked in the late 20's to early 30's on the GOAT list. Other than Bird and Hondo, he's the most accomplished SF of all time in terms of resume. Their have been many dynamic duos or even trios that take turns showing their brilliance in these aspects. When people saw West and Baylor, u knew u had two number one option type guys under one roof. With Doc and Moses u saw the same thing. Kobe and Shaq, Wade and Shaq, Penny and Shaq were like this as well. What made Pippen and Jordan great was the defense and versatility. In terms of scoring punch and devastation, Jordan and Pippen fall behind the duos I mentioned. In the all around sense, MJ and Pippen are the greatest duo of all time in terms of how complete both players were.

[97 bulls]

Magic clearly showed he was an alpha dog! He showed that his rookie year with 42 points, 15 boards, and 7 dimes winning a title. He stepped up for Kareem in a way Pippen NEVER could! Magic was a pass first PG who could turn into an alpha dog and takeover a game scoring. U are correct about Russell. But Russell has such an insane amount of rings and revolutionized the center position. So that's why he's regarded a top 6-7 GOAT of all time. I tend to even think that Russell is slightly overrated. Peak value wise at best I have Russell number 10 amongst centers. Give me Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, David, Ewing, Walton, and McAdoo over Russell. And to be frank, guys like Bellamy, Howard, Zo, Thurmond, and Gilmore peak value wise I would maybe consider over Russell as well.

I don't overvalue scoring. Whoever has the most points, runs, or goals in a game WINS THE GAME! ITS THE ONLY STAT THAT GUARANTEES A WIN 100% OF THE TIME! So their is ALWAYS a premium for scoring at EVERY POSITION other than PG. In other words if needed, these guys can go off for 40 or 50 points when needed. Or they can score 10-15 consecutive points and go on a tear. Or they can have 15 points going into the fourth quarter and end up with 30 points at the end of the game. Or if anything u tell everybody else GET THE HELL OUT THE WAY and they takeover. Pip never had these moments consistently enough to be considered a true blue number one option. And even most of the GOAT PG's are known to carry teams and go on scoring binges CONSISTENTLY.


When it comes to McHale vs. Pippen, GOAT wise Pip might rank higher. In terms of peak value, I would rather have McHale. McHale has arguably the best back to basket game of all time, could play and defend three positions, and he also had a very good faceup midrange game. McHale is one of the most versatile Power Forwards of all time. He was way more versatile than guys like Petitt, Malone, Dave D, Hayes, etc. It takes guys like a Barkley, Webber, KG, or Duncan to top McHale in that aspect. And when u throw in his defensive versatility, that number even gets lower.
So aside from that game that magic scored 42 points, how many games has he (magic) taken over offensively?

[bwink23]

So aside from that game that magic scored 42 points, how many games has he (magic) taken over offensively?


Magic Johson averaged 23.9ppg in 1987, with 21 games over 30 points, and 3 games over 40...here are his POINTS-ASSISTS combos from those games:

34-12, 30-9, 31-8, 34-9, 34-15, 38-16, 46-9, 30-15, 32-14, 38-7, 31-12, 42-7, 40-7, 39-10, 37-16, 31-19, 33-19, 31-13, 34-13, 35-11, 31-8....

21 games averaging 34.8ppg and 11.9 assists, from a PASS-FIRST guard...i'm sure he "took over a game offensively" in there somewhere...

Could you PLEASE stop comparing Pippen to Magic Johnson, it's pathetic.

[97 bulls]

Magic Johson averaged 23.9ppg in 1987, with 21 games over 30 points, and 3 games over 40...here are his POINTS-ASSISTS combos from those games:

34-12, 30-9, 31-8, 34-9, 34-15, 38-16, 46-9, 30-15, 32-14, 38-7, 31-12, 42-7, 40-7, 39-10, 37-16, 31-19, 33-19, 31-13, 34-13, 35-11, 31-8....

21 games averaging 34.8ppg and 11.9 assists, from a PASS-FIRST guard...i'm sure he "took over a game offensively" in there somewhere...

Could you PLEASE stop comparing Pippen to Magic Johnson, it's pathetic.
So if I were to go back and just pick out all of pippens 30 pt games would that make him better in your eyes?

[bwink23]

So if I were to go back and just pick out all of pippens 30 pt games would that make him better in your eyes?


Take any season of pippens and pluck out the 30-point games and assists and let's compare.

[bwink23]

So if I were to go back and just pick out all of pippens 30 pt games would that make him better in your eyes?


30-point games from Pippen by year...

1992 = 3
1993 = 3
1994= 8
1995 = 10
1996= 7
1997 = 8

Total = 39 in 6 years.

Magic Johnson from 1986-1991:

1986 = 6
1987 = 21
1988 = 5
1989 = 12
1990 = 14
1991 = 9

Total = 67 in 6 years....and the assists are NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[97 bulls]

Take any season of pippens and pluck out the 30-point games and assists and let's compare.
I didn't ask you that.

[97 bulls]

30-point games from Pippen by year...

1992 = 3
1993 = 3
1994= 8
1995 = 10
1996= 7
1997 = 8

Total = 39 in 6 years.

Magic Johnson from 1986-1991:

1986 = 6
1987 = 21
1988 = 5
1989 = 12
1990 = 14
1991 = 9

Total = 67 in 6 years....and the assists are NOT EVEN CLOSE.
1st the offense the laker ran and the offense the bulls ran is totally different

2nd the era magic played in and the era pippen played in were totally different

3rd-10th pippen played with jordan.

[OldSchoolBBall]

30-point games from Pippen by year...

1992 = 3
1993 = 3
1994= 8
1995 = 10
1996= 7
1997 = 8

Total = 39 in 6 years.

Magic Johnson from 1986-1991:

1986 = 6
1987 = 21
1988 = 5
1989 = 12
1990 = 14
1991 = 9

Total = 67 in 6 years....and the assists are NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Not to mention that Magic's scoring efficiency destroys Pippen's.

[bwink23]

1st the offense the laker ran and the offense the bulls ran is totally different

2nd the era magic played in and the era pippen played in were totally different

3rd-10th pippen played with jordan.


Pippen is not the offensive player Magic Johnson was....GET OVER IT.

[97 bulls]

Not to mention that Magic's scoring efficiency destroys Pippen's.
You gonna go that route? Pippen played in a better defensive era. Context bro.

[OldSchoolBBall]

You gonna go that route? Pippen played in a better defensive era. Context bro.

1991 - Magic 19.4 ppg/62.3% TS, Pippen 17.8 ppg/56.1% TS

No context needed. Magic was just a vastly more efficient scorer than Pippen at equal or better volume.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is not the offensive player Magic Johnson was....GET OVER IT.
Magic is worthless as a defender. Get over it.

[bwink23]

You gonna go that route? Pippen played in a better defensive era. Context bro.


Pippen played in 88, 89, 90, 91, as well....Pippen isn't fit to carry Magic Johnson's jock strap. Magic came back for a little while a shell of his former self in 1996 and did this per 36 minutes:

17.6ppg, 6.9 rebs, 8.3 assists, 37.9% from 3, and 46.6% from the field...at 36 years old and 5 years removed from the game, from the POWER FORWARD position.....:facepalm

Stop putting Pippen on Magic's level, your embarassing yourself.

[bwink23]

Magic is worthless as a defender. Get over it.


there's nothing Scottie can do defensively that puts him in the category of Magic OR Bird for that matter....GET OVER IT.

[97 bulls]

1991 - Magic 19.4 ppg/62.3% TS, Pippen 17.8 ppg/56.1% TS

No context needed. Magic was just a vastly more efficient scorer than Pippen at equal or better volume.
Different offense. And ts greatly awards fts.

[bwink23]

Magic is worthless as a defender. Get over it.


Scottie couldn't even hit FREETHROWS.....:facepalm

Magic Johnson was a peak 85-90% FT shooter.

[97 bulls]

Pippen played in 88, 89, 90, 91, as well....Pippen isn't fit to carry Magic Johnson's jock strap. Magic came back for a little while a shell of his former self in 1996 and did this per 36 minutes:

17.6ppg, 6.9 rebs, 8.3 assists, 37.9% from 3, and 46.6% from the field...at 36 years old and 5 years removed from the game, from the POWER FORWARD position.....:facepalm

Stop putting Pippen on Magic's level, your embarassing yourself.
Lol you gonna count pippens rookie and second year. Ok pippens won more more championships and has a higher alltime win percentage.

And magic didnt avg 18 ppg in 96. Oh, I see your counting his per 36 min stats. Lol. Ill give you this. Magics defense at 36 years old was as bad as it was at 27.

[bwink23]

Lol you gonna count pippens rookie and second year. Ok pippens won more more championships and has a higher alltime win percentage.

And magic didnt avg 18 ppg in 96. Oh, I see your counting his per 36 min stats. Lol. Ill give you this. Magics defense at 36 years old was as bad as it was at 27.


What did Magic do his rookie and second year?? NUFF SAID

[bizil]

In terms of GOAT standing, Pip is one of the most controversial players ever in my opinion. Pippen had damn good longevity being a great player and he has solo accolades and team accolades in spades. His numbers in the all around sense is in an elite group with other SF's like Bird, Barry, Hondo, and Lebron. But look at the scoring impact of Bird, Barry, Hondo, and Lebron AND their great all around ability. This simply puts them on another level than Pip in the peak value sense. Pip catches ground on them in the GOAT sense because of the factors I mentioned earlier. But even at that, Bird is a top5-6 GOAT of all time. Barry and Hondo are in that 15-20 range. Bron most likely will be a top 10 GOAT. Pip at best is a minimum 10 spots lower than these guys. The sole reason for this is because the others were dominant scorers who can carry a team.

If Pip showed anything close to these guys in that sense, was even, or even exceeded them in that aspect, Pippen would be a top 10 GOAT of all time flat out. Because u are throwing accolades like six titles, two gold medals, 10 all defensive teams, seven all nba teams, and seven all star teams on top of it. With a resume like that, why would Pippen be rated in that top 30 range GOAT? It's because he wasn't seen as a guy you build a franchise around as a alpha dog scorer.

And he plays the SF position, which might be the most prolific scoring position in bball history. If Pippen was a PG, I feel it wouldn't be seen as big of a deal. But when u have PG's like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, etc. Pippen would fall behind them as well. Because even those guys can turn into dominant scorers at the drop of a hat.

[97 bulls]

What did Magic do his rookie and second year?? NUFF SAID
How bout this. Pippen is undefeated vs magic in the finals. :bowdown: and he shut him down head to head

[bwink23]

How bout this. Pippen is undefeated vs magic in the finals. :bowdown: and he shut him down head to head


DUMB......:facepalm


STAN VAN Gundy noted that some of the greatest teams in recent NBA history weren’t exactly loaded with superstars. He first listed the Detroit Pistons of a few years ago – a team that went to six straight Eastern Conference finals and won one championship.

“Was there even one Hall of Famer on that team?” Van Gundy asked rhetorically. “Debatable.”

Then he went to Michael Jordan’s dynastic Bulls and their six championships. Van Gundy speculated that perhaps Jordan was the only superstar on that team.

“I have always wondered, as good as Scottie Pippen was, would he have been considered a star if he hadn’t played with Jordan and had to carry a team on his own,” Van Gundy explained. “We’ll never know, but my point is that sometimes we make the determination after the fact. In other words, after Chicago won championships, we branded Pippen a star.”

From June, 2011

[bwink23]

Lol you gonna count pippens rookie and second year. Ok pippens won more more championships and has a higher alltime win percentage.

And magic didnt avg 18 ppg in 96. Oh, I see your counting his per 36 min stats. Lol. Ill give you this. Magics defense at 36 years old was as bad as it was at 27.


Championships are a team accomplishment...and Jordan was the alpha dog and undisputed best player in the league....LOL at trying to compare what Magic was doing to Pippen, laughable.

[bizil]

How bout this. Pippen is undefeated vs magic in the finals. :bowdown: and he shut him down head to head

No way in hell Pip shut down Magic:

Game Pts Rebs Ast
1 19 10 11
2* 14 7 10
3* 22 6 10
4* 22 6 11
5* 16 11 20

He made Magic work harder than most. But I wouldn't call this shutting Magic down. Hell Dumars made MJ work for his, but Joe D. NEVER shut MJ down consistently. U can never really shut a great player DOWN consistently. But u can make them work and have them not destroy u as bad as everybody else. A good player u can shut down, but not a great one consistently.

[bwink23]

How bout this. Pippen is undefeated vs magic in the finals. :bowdown: and he shut him down head to head


You do know that Jordan guarded Magic for the bulk of that series right?? If you don't, i suggest you go and re-watch the WHOLE SERIES....

[97 bulls]

In terms of GOAT standing, Pip is one of the most controversial players ever in my opinion. Pippen had damn good longevity being a great player and he has solo accolades and team accolades in spades. His numbers in the all around sense is in an elite group with other SF's like Bird, Barry, Hondo, and Lebron. But look at the scoring impact of Bird, Barry, Hondo, and Lebron AND their great all around ability. This simply puts them on another level than Pip in the peak value sense. Pip catches ground on them in the GOAT sense because of the factors I mentioned earlier. But even at that, Bird is a top5-6 GOAT of all time. Barry and Hondo are in that 15-20 range. Bron most likely will be a top 10 GOAT. Pip at best is a minimum 10 spots lower than these guys. The sole reason for this is because the others were dominant scorers who can carry a team.

If Pip showed anything close to these guys in that sense, was even, or even exceeded them in that aspect, Pippen would be a top 10 GOAT of all time flat out. Because u are throwing accolades like six titles, two gold medals, 10 all defensive teams, seven all nba teams, and seven all star teams on top of it. With a resume like that, why would Pippen be rated in that top 30 range GOAT? It's because he wasn't seen as a guy you build a franchise around as a alpha dog scorer.

And he plays the SF position, which might be the most prolific scoring position in bball history. If Pippen was a PG, I feel it wouldn't be seen as big of a deal. But when u have PG's like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, etc. Pippen would fall behind them as well. Because even those guys can turn into dominant scorers at the drop of a hat.
The only people that rank pippen in the 30s is people with an agenda. I routinely frequent basketball reference and pippen holds strong in the 18 to 22 range. He's at 18 right now. And I like that ranking cuz allllllllll basketball fans frequent that site. So you get a general consensus of where most fan see players

[sundizz]

Pippen was arguably the 2nd best player on the dream team behind Chuck. He also dominated an All-Star game with all the greats..and that was in the days when they tried in the game. When he played against the greats he always held his own or was better than them. He isn't a demanding player and as such a 2nd fiddle role is suited for him. However, if Jordan was the engine of the bulls, Pippen was the driver that got that car to the right places.

[bwink23]

No way in hell Pip shut down Magic:

Game Pts Rebs Ast
1 19 10 11
2* 14 7 10
3* 22 6 10
4* 22 6 11
5* 16 11 20

He made Magic work harder than most. But I wouldn't call this shutting Magic down. Hell Dumars made MJ work for his, but Joe D. NEVER shut MJ down consistently. U can never really shut a great player DOWN consistently. But u can make them work and have them not destroy u as bad as everybody else. A good player u can shut down, but not a great one consistently.


Plus, Magic was damn near his seasonal averages. He did all he could do against that Bulls defense with 2 of the best wing defenders and an injured James Worthy.

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=bwink23]DUMB......:facepalm


STAN VAN Gundy noted that some of the greatest teams in recent NBA history weren

[97 bulls]

Pippen was arguably the 2nd best player on the dream team behind Chuck. He also dominated an All-Star game with all the greats..and that was in the days when they tried in the game. When he played against the greats he always held his own or was better than them. He isn't a demanding player and as such a 2nd fiddle role is suited for him. However, if Jordan was the engine of the bulls, Pippen was the driver that got that car to the right places.
Than you

[97 bulls]

You do know that Jordan guarded Magic for the bulk of that series right?? If you don't, i suggest you go and re-watch the WHOLE SERIES....
Sure, but pippen drew that assignmnent often too.

[bizil]

I never said Pip wasn't a great player. Or that he didn't hold his own with the other greats. Pip made those greats work damn hard and Pip was a very good scorer. But just because I feel he wasn't a true blue number one option doesn't mean Im hating. And sometimes u HAVE to demand the ball, be an asshole, and takeover a game. Or u have to believe in yourself of have the ability to be a great scorer in the first place. Lebron for all the heat he catches still scores well enough to be the highest scoring SF of all time in terms of career average. And he had the all around package that trumps even Pippen's. And Bron plays with another alpha dog type in Wade. If I'm picking between MJ-Pip or Bron-Wade, I would take Bron-Wade peak wise. Now GOAT wise, they have a ways to go before touching MJ-Pip.

[97 bulls]

Plus, Magic was damn near his seasonal averages. He did all he could do against that Bulls defense with 2 of the best wing defenders and an injured James Worthy.
Magic shot a terrible percentage and turned the ball over alot. That's how you shut down a great offensive player

[bwink23]

Magic shot a terrible percentage and turned the ball over alot. That's how you shut down a great offensive player



18.6ppg on 43.1%FG, 12.4 assists, 8.0 rebs....with Jordan and Pippen guarding you, an injured James Worthy....this wasn't the Showtime Lakers anymore. He also hit on 39 of 41 of his FT's which is amazing.

I think it's amazing Magic even got them into Finals....:no:

[bwink23]

Magic shot a terrible percentage and turned the ball over alot. That's how you shut down a great offensive player


Magic Johnson in the Western Finals against Portland that same year:

20.8ppg on 43.8%FG, 12.8 assists, 7.8 rebs....and of course hitting his FT's..

He didn't shoot the ball well here either, but his incredible all-around game made everyone on the floor dangerous.

Magic is in a class by himself.

[97 bulls]

I never said Pip wasn't a great player. Or that he didn't hold his own with the other greats. Pip made those greats work damn hard and Pip was a very good scorer. But just because I feel he wasn't a true blue number one option doesn't mean Im hating. And sometimes u HAVE to demand the ball, be an asshole, and takeover a game. Or u have to believe in yourself of have the ability to be a great scorer in the first place. Lebron for all the heat he catches still scores well enough to be the highest scoring SF of all time in terms of career average. And he had the all around package that trumps even Pippen's. And Bron plays with another alpha dog type in Wade. If I'm picking between MJ-Pip or Bron-Wade, I would take Bron-Wade peak wise. Now GOAT wise, they have a ways to go before touching MJ-Pip.
I think our disagreement is simply what the difference between first option and best player is. I feel that pippen could've led a team to a championship as the best player. Even if he wasn't the first option. You feel the only way a player lead a team is through scoring.

I do feel you greatly contradict yourself when you say your most interested in winning and that youd pick mchale over pippen. Cuz mchale failed as a first option player. Miserably.

[Nevaeh]

18.6ppg on 43.1%FG, 12.4 assists, 8.0 rebs....with Jordan and Pippen guarding you, an injured James Worthy....this wasn't the Showtime Lakers anymore. He also hit on 39 of 41 of his FT's which is amazing.

I think it's amazing Magic even got them into Finals....:no:

Don't forget that he did all of this without Kareem and a new coach, as well.

[97 bulls]

18.6ppg on 43.1%FG, 12.4 assists, 8.0 rebs....with Jordan and Pippen guarding you, an injured James Worthy....this wasn't the Showtime Lakers anymore. He also hit on 39 of 41 of his FT's which is amazing.

I think it's amazing Magic even got them into Finals....:no:
What boosted magic fg percentage was game one when he was 4 of 5 for 80%. The other four games he shot 31%, 47%, 46%, 33%. Boy the lakers sure could've used magic takeover ability then.

[Nevaeh]

What boosted magic fg percentage was game one when he was 4 of 5 for 80%. The other four games he shot 31%, 47%, 46%, 33%. Boy the lakers sure could've used magic takeover ability then.

How many assists did he have each game? Those lead to points too, you know.

[eliteballer]

LOL. Magic was getting what he wanted on Pippen. He as routinely getting by him and into the paint. It was the Bulls collapsing help D that was giving problems.

[bwink23]

What boosted magic fg percentage was game one when he was 4 of 5 for 80%. The other four games he shot 31%, 47%, 46%, 33%. Boy the lakers sure could've used magic takeover ability then.


And Magic had these %'s in 4 games against Portland the series prior:

25%, 37.5%, 42.8%, and 42.1%....i suppose you want to give Pippen credit for that???

Magic's combo scoring/passing is the best ever. Pippen can't hold Magic's ball sack....:no:

[bwink23]

What boosted magic fg percentage was game one when he was 4 of 5 for 80%. The other four games he shot 31%, 47%, 46%, 33%. Boy the lakers sure could've used magic takeover ability then.


You don't seem to understand that team's focused on Magic Johnson heavily...as Magic goes, the Lakers go....Magic was under heavy pressure. I can't imagine anyone other than him leading that Laker team to the Finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQZ6UlCoCvM

[97 bulls]

And Magic had these %'s in 4 games against Portland the series prior:

25%, 37.5%, 42.8%, and 42.1%....i suppose you want to give Pippen credit for that???

Magic's combo scoring/passing is the best ever. Pippen can't hold Magic's ball sack....:no:
He also shot 53 and 50. What does what he did vs portland matter? They beat portland. And he shot a better percentage.

[bwink23]

He also shot 53 and 50. What does what he did vs portland matter? They beat portland. And he shot a better percentage.


43.1% to 43.8% is NEGLIGIBLE....his all-around game was there for both series....

Portland = 43 of 52 FT's....82.6%FT
Chicago = 39 for 41 FT's...95.1% FT

Stop acting like Magic was shut down by Pippen and he didn't show up.......:facepalm

[97 bulls]

43.1% to 43.8% is NEGLIGIBLE....his all-around game was there for both series....

Portland = 43 of 52 FT's....82.6%FT
Chicago = 39 for 41 FT's...95.1% FT

Stop acting like Magic was shut down by Pippen and he didn't show up.......:facepalm
They lost wink. In large part due to pippens defense on magic when jordan was in foul trouble or resting. Magics play was a large reason why. Mainly his lack of defense on paxson.

[andgar923]

So now they're comparing Pip to Magic?

WOW

[Lebron23]

So now they're comparing Pip to Magic?

WOW

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

So now they're comparing Pip to Magic?

WOW
Im not trying to compare pippen and johnson. But Im sick of these posters wanting to pick and choose when they want to use context. Like with magics efficiency and pippens. The numbers say magic was more efficient than pippen. But factoring context, the league magic played in as a whole shot a high percentage when compared to pippens era.

Notice how bizil refuses to address the pippen/mchale comparison. He says pippen couldn't lead based on his 94, 95, and 00 the season when he was pushing 35. Due to the fact that pippen didn't score enough. But when I asked him about mchale, he say he would've built a team around him before pippen? Why? He had the chance to lead the celtics in 89 and failed. He only avg 22 ppg like pippen. There was expansion, he had a great team full of players that won championships. He was 31 unlike pippen with the blazers who was almost 35. To sum it up, he led the celts to a 42-40 record. What makes mchale morre of a franchise player than pippen?

[bizil]

Im not trying to compare pippen and johnson. But Im sick of these posters wanting to pick and choose when they want to use context. Like with magics efficiency and pippens. The numbers say magic was more efficient than pippen. But factoring context, the league magic played in as a whole shot a high percentage when compared to pippens era.

Notice how bizil refuses to address the pippen/mchale comparison. He says pippen couldn't lead based on his 94, 95, and 00 the season when he was pushing 35. Due to the fact that pippen didn't score enough. But when I asked him about mchale, he say he would've built a team around him before pippen? Why? He had the chance to lead the celtics in 89 and failed. He only avg 22 ppg like pippen. There was expansion, he had a great team full of players that won championships. He was 31 unlike pippen with the blazers who was almost 35. To sum it up, he led the celts to a 42-40 record. What makes mchale morre of a franchise player than pippen?

U just love callin me out by name don't ya! LOL For one when I comparing Pip to McHale I'm talking peak for peak or GOAT shit. GOAT shit wise Pip might very well have the edge on McHale. But peak for peak, I would take McHale over Pippen. McHale was on a stacked team that featured arguably the greatest frontline of all time. But with that said, McHale was an alpha dog type caliber player at his best. The way he could dominate on the block with those SICK postup moves AND also faceup with a nice midrange game was IMPRESSIVE! And McHale was a very versatile defender capable of checking SF, PF, and C. He often times guarded the SF's in a a golden age of that position while Bird checked the PF's. Mchale at his best was a first team All NBA PF getting 26 a night on title teams. McHale was a beast and WAY MORE CAPABLE AS A NUMBER ONE OPTION TYPE GUY THAN PIP EVER WAS!

Pip in '94 had his chance to prove himself as the man. He was completely healthy and in the peak of his career. Hell that year was his CAREER YEAR! But that wasn't enough to get that Bulls team over the hump. Other than Pip, that team had NO OTHER NUMBER ONE OPTION TYPE GUYS ON THAT TEAM! WHICH MEANS PIP REALLY HAD TO PUT THE FOOT ON THE GAS FOR THAT TEAM TO GO FAR! But the sad part was Pip wasn't a pure number one option himself. Which means the team relied heavily on a great triangle system and great coach in Phil Jackson. They had an All Star caliber PF in Horace and one of the better shooting PG's in the L in BJ. U also had Kukoc who was fast becoming one of the more elite and versatile sixth men in the L. That team overachieved and Pip was the main reason why. But with that said, guys like Bron, MJ, Bird, or Kobe would have taken that team to even greater heights.

Pip runs into problems when compared to other perimeter players in that 6'5 to 6'9 range who are great all around AND can will a team scoring the rock. That Bulls team needed more scoring output to win a ring. Which was the standard in Chicago to begin with. Pip had the prime opportunity to show his greatness as the man on that team. Instead he found himself pointing to his pair of Air Jordans BEGGING MJ TO COMEBACK! LMBAO! And he found his ass pouting on the bench while Phil drew up the play for Kukoc to take the final shot. And TK hit that shit as well! lol

Im not taking into consideration those Blazer years. Pip already established his greatness and was headed for the HOF. I'm basing my theory on his prime years and in particular that '94 year. A young puppy straight outta HS like Bron showed WAY MORE INITIATIVE doing what needed to be done getting the Cleveland team to the NBA Finals early in his career. That Cleveland team man for man HAD NO BUSINESS BEATING THAT DETROIT TEAM! But Bron was so great early on that HE WILLED THAT TEAM PAST THE PISTONS! So as much heat as Bron catches for his clutch or alpha dog gene, he showed way more than Pip EVER DID!

That '94 Bulls team needed Pippen to do some Bron shit to make the Finals! Bron scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the team's final 25 points in a double-overtime victory. This is a different level of player that Pip was at his best. Bron is a pass first type player, but at a young ass age he showed the initiative and ability to takeover. Pip was playing with the GOAT and didn't pick up on that greatness MJ had in that aspect. So their is no excuses when '94 came around. The Bulls came off a threepeat and Pip had plenty of cliff notes to study from. But even at that, the bottom line is Pip didn't have that shit to begin with. Perimeter guys like Magic, Bird, MJ, Wade, Kobe, and Bron are just simply on another stratosphere than Pippen. Face facts!

[Kevin_Gamble]

There's plenty of doubt rather he would have even been an all star if he hadn't been traded to the Bulls.

Why do you post on an NBA board if you have never played or watched basketball in your entire life?

[97 bulls]

U just love callin me out by name don't ya! LOL For one when I comparing Pip to McHale I'm talking peak for peak or GOAT shit. GOAT shit wise Pip might very well have the edge on McHale. But peak for peak, I would take McHale over Pippen. McHale was on a stacked team that featured arguably the greatest frontline of all time. But with that said, McHale was an alpha dog type caliber player at his best. The way he could dominate on the block with those SICK postup moves AND also faceup with a nice midrange game was IMPRESSIVE! And McHale was a very versatile defender capable of checking SF, PF, and C. He often times guarded the SF's in a a golden age of that position while Bird checked the PF's. Mchale at his best was a first team All NBA PF getting 26 a night on title teams. McHale was a beast and WAY MORE CAPABLE AS A NUMBER ONE OPTION TYPE GUY THAN PIP EVER WAS!

Pip in '94 had his chance to prove himself as the man. He was completely healthy and in the peak of his career. Hell that year was his CAREER YEAR! But that wasn't enough to get that Bulls team over the hump. Other than Pip, that team had NO OTHER NUMBER ONE OPTION TYPE GUYS ON THAT TEAM! WHICH MEANS PIP REALLY HAD TO PUT THE FOOT ON THE GAS FOR THAT TEAM TO GO FAR! But the sad part was Pip wasn't a pure number one option himself. Which means the team relied heavily on a great triangle system and great coach in Phil Jackson. They had an All Star caliber PF in Horace and one of the better shooting PG's in the L in BJ. U also had Kukoc who was fast becoming one of the more elite and versatile sixth men in the L. That team overachieved and Pip was the main reason why. But with that said, guys like Bron, MJ, Bird, or Kobe would have taken that team to even greater heights.

Pip runs into problems when compared to other perimeter players in that 6'5 to 6'9 range who are great all around AND can will a team scoring the rock. That Bulls team needed more scoring output to win a ring. Which was the standard in Chicago to begin with. Pip had the prime opportunity to show his greatness as the man on that team. Instead he found himself pointing to his pair of Air Jordans BEGGING MJ TO COMEBACK! LMBAO! And he found his ass pouting on the bench while Phil drew up the play for Kukoc to take the final shot. And TK hit that shit as well! lol

Im not taking into consideration those Blazer years. Pip already established his greatness and was headed for the HOF. I'm basing my theory on his prime years and in particular that '94 year. A young puppy straight outta HS like Bron showed WAY MORE INITIATIVE doing what needed to be done getting the Cleveland team to the NBA Finals early in his career. That Cleveland team man for man HAD NO BUSINESS BEATING THAT DETROIT TEAM! But Bron was so great early on that HE WILLED THAT TEAM PAST THE PISTONS! So as much heat as Bron catches for his clutch or alpha dog gene, he showed way more than Pip EVER DID!

That '94 Bulls team needed Pippen to do some Bron shit to make the Finals! Bron scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the team's final 25 points in a double-overtime victory. This is a different level of player that Pip was at his best. Bron is a pass first type player, but at a young ass age he showed the initiative and ability to takeover. Pip was playing with the GOAT and didn't pick up on that greatness MJ had in that aspect. So their is no excuses when '94 came around. The Bulls came off a threepeat and Pip had plenty of cliff notes to study from. But even at that, the bottom line is Pip didn't have that shit to begin with. Perimeter guys like Magic, Bird, MJ, Wade, Kobe, and Bron are just simply on another stratosphere than Pippen. Face facts!
Mchale was 31. Show me a great player that was over the hill by 31 barring injury. He turned in one of his best statistical seasons. Hell he spent most of his career as the sixthman. Which meant he didnt take the pounding most starters take on a nightly basis. The celtics could've used his "alpha dog" bite to finish better than 42-40 in an expansion year. But he didn't even get them to the hump. 42 wins? Pippen had the 95 bulls doing far better. The fact is pippen did better than mchale when they both had the chance to lead their team. So either your theory that you have to be an alpha dog to lead team is wrong, or you have an agenda against pippen.

[juju151111]

Mj at 35 with a broken knuckle was on pace for the same record has the 94 bulls with no Pippen and Rodman being out/injured.

[bizil]

Mchale was 31. Show me a great player that was over the hill by 31 barring injury. He turned in one of his best statistical seasons. Hell he spent most of his career as the sixthman. Which meant he didnt take the pounding most starters take on a nightly basis. The celtics could've used his "alpha dog" bite to finish better than 42-40 in an expansion year. But he didn't even get them to the hump. 42 wins? Pippen had the 95 bulls doing far better. The fact is pippen did better than mchale when they both had the chance to lead their team. So either your theory that you have to be an alpha dog to lead team is wrong, or you have an agenda against pippen.

It is well known that McHale played the six-game series against the Lakers in 1987 on what was basically a broken foot. And previously in McHale's career he also had leg and foot problems. So at 31, he body was already breaking down. Bird even said McHale ignored the broken foot, but paid for it in the end. SO YES, McHale had a serious injury at 30 or 31 and was never really the same. So yes the injury argument applies to McHale. In that '86-'87 season, McHale was all NBA first team putting up 26 points and 10 boards. The foot shit ended up getting the best of him, even though he continued to play at a high level. Keep coming at me and I will give u FACTS EVERYTIME!

[juju151111]

How bout this. Pippen is undefeated vs magic in the finals. :bowdown: and he shut him down head to head
No he did not. That was one gm

[305Baller]

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Bane-in-The-Dark-Knight-Rises.jpg

[Nevaeh]

No he did not. That was one gm

Yeah, that was some "Laker Troll" style fabricating right there.
97 Bulls is a trip. He's always rational right up until Pippen is discussed.
:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

It is well known that McHale played the six-game series against the Lakers in 1987 on what was basically a broken foot. And previously in McHale's career he also had leg and foot problems. So at 31, he body was already breaking down. Bird even said McHale ignored the broken foot, but paid for it in the end. SO YES, McHale had a serious injury at 30 or 31 and was never really the same. So yes the injury argument applies to McHale. In that '86-'87 season, McHale was all NBA first team putting up 26 points and 10 boards. The foot shit ended up getting the best of him, even though he continued to play at a high level. Keep coming at me and I will give u FACTS EVERYTIME!
Statistics show that he recovered from that injury. Humans do and can recover from injuries. Scottie Pippen had back problems starting in 88 and ended up having back surgery. You gonna make concessions for him? And he had back surgeyr in 98 and I believe it was his back that cost him games in 94. Which most likly cost him the mvp.

Going back to mchale, even if what you say is true how much better do the celtics fair? Not much better. Eight of their wins came against expansion franchises. There's nothing that mchale did that would indicate franchise player. He had plenty of help, it was an expansion year, its obvious his foot didn't effect him that much. Everything but ypur agenda points to pippen being more of a franchise player.

[SwooshReturns]

97 Bulls is a trip. He's always rational right up until Pippen is discussed.
I know ... it's so funny.

Weird too, for someone who claims to be SUCH a Bulls fan, does he not realize Pippen at multiple points in his career begged to be traded because his dumb ass signed stupid contracts because of personal insecurities (almost got traded for Shawn Kemp in '94 and '95) and willingly left a team that could've competed for a ring in 1999 in the shortened season because he was bitter about WHAT exactly?

:oldlol:

Instead went to super club Houston which didn't match his playing style, where he proceeded to look very mortal. Stand in the corner and do nothing for multiple offensive stretches at a time?

[bizil]

Statistics show that he recovered from that injury. Humans do and can recover from injuries. Scottie Pippen had back problems starting in 88 and ended up having back surgery. You gonna make concessions for him? And he had back surgeyr in 98 and I believe it was his back that cost him games in 94. Which most likly cost him the mvp.

Going back to mchale, even if what you say is true how much better do the celtics fair? Not much better. Eight of their wins came against expansion franchises. There's nothing that mchale did that would indicate franchise player. He had plenty of help, it was an expansion year, its obvious his foot didn't effect him that much. Everything but ypur agenda points to pippen being more of a franchise player.

What do u mean statistics show? Bird and McHale BOTH said he wasn't the same player. He was in his physical prime and should have kept getting better. He just turned 30 the year his got that serious injury. And his scoring and boards did take a dip. There have been great players who continued to improve skillset wise even at the age of 30 and after. Magic,MJ, Karl Malone, and Hakeem are great example of this. McHale was at an age where he could have got even more crafty than he already was to begin with. But with that foot his career flatlined and he played less minutes. Then his game began to decline even though he was still very good. But he wasn't GREAT anymore because the foot couldn't hold up as long.

[Nevaeh]

I know ... it's so funny.

Weird too, for someone who claims to be SUCH a Bulls fan, does he not realize Pippen at multiple points in his career begged to be traded because his dumb ass signed stupid contracts because of personal insecurities (almost got traded for Shawn Kemp in '94 and '95) and willingly left a team that could've competed for a ring in 1999 in the shortened season because he was bitter about WHAT exactly?

:oldlol:

Instead went to super club Houston which didn't match his playing style, where he proceeded to look very mortal. Stand in the corner and do nothing for multiple offensive stretches at a time?

Good points. And I like Pip, so I won't lay into him too bad (you guys made all the good points earlier anyway). But I will say, we've already saw what happens when Pip is a team's focal point. He gets frustrated and shrinks under pressure.

[bizil]

I know ... it's so funny.

Weird too, for someone who claims to be SUCH a Bulls fan, does he not realize Pippen at multiple points in his career begged to be traded because his dumb ass signed stupid contracts because of personal insecurities (almost got traded for Shawn Kemp in '94 and '95) and willingly left a team that could've competed for a ring in 1999 in the shortened season because he was bitter about WHAT exactly?

:oldlol:

Instead went to super club Houston which didn't match his playing style, where he proceeded to look very mortal. Stand in the corner and do nothing for multiple offensive stretches at a time?

Well said! 97 Bulls just can't except the fact that Pip WASN'T a true number one option guy. Which is okay because he was still a great player. But u simply CAN'T put Pip on the level of MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Bron, and Wade. Or even Hondo and Barry. I would also take Drexler over Pippen as well. Pip is SIGNIFICANTLY behind these guys.

[97 bulls]

Yeah, that was some "Laker Troll" style fabricating right there.
97 Bulls is a trip. He's always rational right up until Pippen is discussed.
:oldlol:
What irrational? Im not comparing pippen to jordan. Its just silly to say pippen couldnt have been a franchise player.

Its not irrational to say pippen wasn't a franchise player cuz he didn't lead the 94 bulls to a championship without a suitable replacement for jordan? Even more to imply that toni kukoc as a rookie and pete myers were suitable and thus making the assumption that those two combined equal jordan?

Or that he is a franchise player cuz he didn't score enough? Even though jackson and tex wintr and john bach said pippens scoring was by design and that he could've avg 25-26 ppg but it would've been at the expense of wins? Not to mention is it not irrantional to dismiss his not scoring more to the stamina it takes to be your teams best rebounder, defender, offensive play caller, passer, help defender etc? What other 25 ppg scorer has ever been asked to do the same? The only other player capable of that was jordan.

Or to knock his not being able to beat the knicks who took the bulls to seven games with jordan?

It isn't irrational to try to compare the mid 90s statistics to the 80s statistics when the avg 80s team took almost 800 more shots per year? And played at a different tempo?

You guys are being irrational

[97 bulls]

Good points. And I like Pip, so I won't lay into him too bad (you guys made all the good points earlier anyway). But I will say, we've already saw what happens when Pip is a team's focal point. He gets frustrated and shrinks under pressure.
This is an agenda post. At no point during pippen tenure with the bulls would I say he shrunk under pressure. And often he came through under pressure. His itting out that play was not him wilting under pressure, but showing that he wanted to take the shot. How can you call that folding under pressure? He was mad cuz he wasn't able to take the shot.

[97 bulls]

I know ... it's so funny.

Weird too, for someone who claims to be SUCH a Bulls fan, does he not realize Pippen at multiple points in his career begged to be traded because his dumb ass signed stupid contracts because of personal insecurities (almost got traded for Shawn Kemp in '94 and '95) and willingly left a team that could've competed for a ring in 1999 in the shortened season because he was bitter about WHAT exactly?

:oldlol:

Instead went to super club Houston which didn't match his playing style, where he proceeded to look very mortal. Stand in the corner and do nothing for multiple offensive stretches at a time?
Another agenda post. Who gives a shit about his financial decisions? And its clear and well documneted that krause broke up the bulls after 98. You call yourself a bulls fan?

[Ikill]

It took Pippen 18 shots to get 22 points while playing with Jordan if he averaged 25 points he wouldn't efficient

[1987_Lakers]

I just wish he could've had five years leading the bulls. There's no doubt he wins an mvp and dpoy. While leading a team to a championship
:roll:

[97 bulls]

It took Pippen 18 shots to get 22 points while playing with Jordan if he averaged 25 points he wouldn't efficient
He did shoot 49%. But I do agree his efficiency would suffer.