23 years old: Kobe vs LeBron vs Durant

[28renyoy]

Who is the best?

And so everyone doesn't get all butthurt, I'll include advanced stats and even out the minutes played to per 36 and therefore everything is equal.


Kobe 23.7 ppg 18.8 FGA 5.2 rpg 5.1 apg 47.9 eFG% .199 WSp48 23.2 PER
LeBron 26.8 ppg 19.5 FGA 7.0 rpg 6.4 apg 51.8 eFG% .242 WSp48 29.1 PER
Durant 26.5 ppg 18.5 FGA 7.5 rpg 3.2 apg 55.9 eFG% .247 WSp48 27.8 PER

The Lakers went 58-24 and won the NBA title
The Cavs went 45-37 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs
The Thunder are on pace to go 66-16(if it were an 82 game season)

[Scoooter]

LeBron easily. Durant LOL, try passing.

[28renyoy]

LeBron easily. Durant LOL, try passing.

Ya because averaging half as many assists as a guy that has the ball in his hands twice as much is a bad thing :rolleyes:

[christian1923]

The guy who won a championship

[Shade8780]

The guy who won a championship
....as a sidekick

[christian1923]

....as a sidekick

....and lebron couldnt win a championship as a sidekick at 26.

OUCH

[brandonislegend]

....and lebron couldnt win a championship as a sidekick at 26.

OUCH

:roll:

[rodman91]

....and lebron couldnt win a championship as a sidekick at 26.

OUCH

Kobe couldn't win a championship as a sidekick at 29 too.

OUCH

[Scoooter]

Ya because averaging half as many assists as a guy that has the ball in his hands twice as much is a bad thing :rolleyes:
:lol

You're too easy.

[christian1923]

Kobe couldn't win a championship as a sidekick at 29 too.

OUCH

LOL is that supposed to be funny?

You're trying to say kobe was pau gasol's sidekick? :confusedshrug:

[Bballfinest]

Kobe couldn't win a championship as a sidekick at 29 too.

OUCH
That was lame

[rodman91]

LOL is that supposed to be funny?

You're trying to say kobe was pau gasol's sidekick? :confusedshrug:

I'm just being funny same way you do. :confusedshrug:

[d21221hk]

:facepalm

[SpecialQue]

LOL is that supposed to be funny?

You're trying to say kobe was pau gasol's sidekick? :confusedshrug:

It's funny how great of a player Pau is when talking about the Lakers' last two championships, and how worthless he is when discussing a trade.

[christian1923]

I'm just being funny same way you do. :confusedshrug:

No try again

that didnt make any sense

[pauk]

....and lebron couldnt win a championship as a sidekick at 26.

OUCH

Lebron 27-8-7 and this season 28-8-7, MVP of the team
Wade 25-6-5 and this season 23-4-5

Shaq 30-14-4, MVP of the team
Kobe 22-6-5

I think we know here who was the sidekick, who was better and worse and who had a better teammate to CARRY YOU....
http://29.media.tumblr.com/6mnaOyWYtqh9x54zJ2ODH2r7o1_400.jpg

OUCH

[rodman91]

No try again

that didnt make any sense

Lebron wasn't sidekick just like Kobe wasn't in his 2nd finals loss.

[Flamboyant]

Lebron wasn't sidekick just like Kobe wasn't in his 2nd finals loss.
You're right, neither were sidekicks. Kobe was the best player of his team, while LeBron was the sidekick of a sidekick, since Bosh was better than him as well. :oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron is clearly the worst of the group and I'm not exaggerating, trolling, or anything like that.

LeBron in '07-'08 had a lot of problems and a lot of problems with his game that you could easily expose and they were exposed in the post-season.

LeBron at 23 had an inconsistent jump shot and played no defense. It is only two problems but those two problems are huge especially for a superstar player.

I have a hard time choosing between Durant and Kobe but LeBron is clearly last.


1. Durant/Kobe
2. Kobe/Durant
3. Lebron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe came off a 29.4-7.3-6.1 postseason helping LA win a championship.
And before any ****** says he got carried or was a sidekick. Here you go http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=254054

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron 27-8-7 and this season 28-8-7, MVP of the team
Wade 25-6-5 and this season 23-4-5

Shaq 30-14-4, MVP of the team
Kobe 22-6-5

I think we know here who was the sidekick, who was better and worse and who had a better teammate to CARRY YOU....
http://29.media.tumblr.com/6mnaOyWYtqh9x54zJ2ODH2r7o1_400.jpg

OUCH
:facepalm
****ing Filipino ******

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=254054

'01 Playoffs
Shaq - 30/15/5
Kobe - 29/7/6

'02 Playoffs
Shaq - 29/13/3
Kobe - 27/6/5

[rodman91]

You're right, neither were sidekicks. Kobe was the best player of his team, while LeBron was the sidekick of a sidekick, since Bosh was better than him as well. :oldlol:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/2949519487_16e50ae271.jpg

[bwink23]

Kobe came off a 29.4-7.3-6.1 postseason helping LA win a championship.
And before any ****** says he got carried or was a sidekick. Here you go http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=254054


Kobe was most certainly a SIDEKICK to Shaq....:facepalm

He even called himself a sidekick in Phil's book :lol

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron easily. Durant LOL, try passing.
So because LeBron was a better passer than Durant at age 23 that makes him better? :rolleyes:

Here is the problem with your post, Durant is actually a very good passer/playmaker. He just doesn't rack up the assists because he isn't a ball-dominant player and his primary job isn't to setup his teammates and make plays for others, his primary job is to score. He isn't as good of a playmaker or passer as LBJ but he doesn't have to be to be better.

Durant also moves without the basketball. Don't you think it is kind of hard to score when you the ball isn't even in your hands that much?

Durant at age 23 is superior than LeBron was at age 23 in every aspect of the game outside of passing/playmaking.

Honestly with your logic, you could say LeBron at age 23 was better than version of MJ in the 90s since MJ never racked up as many assists as LeBron did.

Do you actually believe that though? I really hope not.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe was most certainly a SIDEKICK to Shaq....:facepalm

He even called himself a sidekick in Phil's book :lol
He was the 2nd best player like Kareem in '82, '85, '87-'88
1A/1B

[bwink23]

He was the 2nd best player like Kareem in '82, '85, '87-'88
1A/1B


Kobe Bryant to Phil, " I'm tired of being a sidekick" - :D

[blablabla]

LeBron is clearly the worst of the group and I'm not exaggerating, trolling, or anything like that.

LeBron in '07-'08 had a lot of problems and a lot of problems with his game that you could easily expose and they were exposed in the post-season.

LeBron at 23 had an inconsistent jump shot and played no defense. It is only two problems but those two problems are huge especially for a superstar player.

I have a hard time choosing between Durant and Kobe but LeBron is clearly last.


1. Durant/Kobe
2. Kobe/Durant
3. Lebron.
i agree with this

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant to Phil, " I'm tired of being a sidekick" - :D
OK cool story.
Kareem was a "sidekick" for 4/6 rings

If you want to use that term.
Oh and btw Shaq after '01 WCF "Kobe is the best player in the world"
Phil after '01 WCF "Kobe led us to the Finals" :D

[ballinhun8]

The guy who won a championship. Then Durant. Then the guy who has already lost two NBA finals.

[LamarOdom]

Kind of funny that people think KD only plays off the ball he got the sixth highest usage rate in the league.

LeBron is the best in the leauge and it isn't even close.

[StateOfMind12]

Kind of funny that people think KD only plays off the ball he got the sixth highest usage rate in the league.

LeBron is the best in the leauge and it isn't even close.
Hey *******, we're talking about them as 23 year olds, not now.

Usage rates? Do you even understand how that stat ****ing works? It's based on how many FGs and FTAs you take. If you play and move without the ball you can still take shots you know because that is a method of creating your own shot. Usage rates doesn't determine how ball-dominant you are or how often you play without the ball or not, *******.

LeBron dick rider exposed.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron and KD at 23 were/are both better. Hell, Lebron at 22 took his team to the Finals BY HIMSELF.

[chazzy]

Lebron and KD at 23 were/are both better. Hell, Lebron at 22 took his team to the Finals BY HIMSELF.
07 Lebron really wasn't that great compared to his other seasons

[LamarOdom]

Hey *******, we're talking about them as 23 year olds, not now.

Hhaha Lebron as a 23 year old lead CAVS with his second best player being Varejo to NBA finals.

Lets se how far Durant can take OKC.

Edit: Oh yeah forgot to mention KD got Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka, not bad.

[StateOfMind12]

Hhaha Lebron as a 23 year old lead CAVS with his second best player being Varejo to NBA finals.

Lets se how far Durant can take OKC.
First of all, it was the '07-'08 season when LeBron was 23, not '06-'07.

Second of all, he played in the ****ing East where there was not a slight of competition at all. The only team that was a powerhouse in the East was the Pistons, and they always self-destructed in the post-season because Flip Saunders was their coach.

What is your argument now? How about we compare their abiltiies? Durant at age 23 was better than Lebron was at age 23 at every facet of the game except passing/playmaking. Yet, there are people trying to say LeBron was better at age 23? :rolleyes: :facepalm

[LamarOdom]

First of all, it was the '07-'08 season when LeBron was 23, not '06-'07.

Second of all, he played in the ****ing East where there was not a slight of competition at all. The only team that was a powerhouse in the East was the Pistons, and they always self-destructed in the post-season because Flip Saunders was their coach.

What is your argument now? How about we compare their abiltiies? Durant at age 23 was better than Lebron was at age 23 at every facet of the game except passing/playmaking. Yet, there are people trying to say LeBron was better at age 23? :rolleyes: :facepalm

No, he was in the finals 06/07. And are you drunk? or are your jealousy and hate of LeBron so big. However you wanna put it or try to twist it LeBron is and was as a 23 yr old a better player. He is a much better teammate and he makes everyone on the court better. Or are those 60 win seasons with a worse team then Howard has just a coincidence?

Not even MJ could improve his team as much as LeBron.

[StateOfMind12]

No, he was in the finals 06/07. And are you drunk? or are your jealousy and hate of LeBron so big. However you wanna put it or try to twist it LeBron is and was as a 23 yr old a better player. He is a much better teammate and he makes everyone on the court better.
So I'm suppose to be impressed by LeBron James leading his team to the Finals in a conference where there is no competition what so ever outside of one team that self-destructed annually? :roll:

Cool story bro. I'll take the player that is the superior scorer, superior defender, superior rebounder, more clutch, and better at pretty much every aspect of the game outside of passing/playmaking.

Take more assists, I'll take more of everything else.


Or are those 60 win seasons with a worse team then Howard has just a coincidence?
He wasn't 23 when he accomplished that you idiot.

[LamarOdom]

And one more thing OP you forgot that the year before that 45-37 Cavs was in the NBA finals? that was when he was 22 he lead a team with role players to the finals.

Durant has Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka as teammates thats a great team.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe was phenomenal in the clutch and better individually than the numbers suggest because he embraced the 2nd option role throughout the season and stepped up when necessary. See his 2002 series vs the Spurs for his clutch play. He was obviously capable of bigger numbers as evidenced by his 56 points in 3 quarters when Shaq was suspended or the fact that he wasn't a worse player than 2001 when he put up better numbers.

But why not just put their regular numbers and post their mpg with them? Per 36 numbers are estimation, while if you just post their regular numbers with their minutes, people can draw their own conclusions. Though it should also be pointed out that in 2002, defense was at it's peak and only 2 players averaged over 25 ppg on 50% shooting and only 3 did so on 55 TS%.

Either way, Kobe and Durant were the 2 best scorers, while Lebron was the best passer, and Kobe was the best defender.

Lebron had more of a clear hole in his game with his suspect shooting which did seem to get exposed vs Boston, but he was so physically dominant.

I do like what I've seen from Durant this season, though. He seems clearly better than the past 2 seasons when he was already very good. I'll have to wait to see what he does in the playoffs.

But as of right now, I think you can make a case for any of the 3 at this particular age.


Ya because averaging half as many assists as a guy that has the ball in his hands twice as much is a bad thing :rolleyes:

Durant is a good passer currently, imo, but lets not gloss over the fact that Lebron is in another league when it comes to passing, always has been. And really, by your logic, if Durant did have the ball in his hands enough to make the assist numbers closer, where would that put his turnover numbers?


Hell, Lebron at 22 took his team to the Finals BY HIMSELF.

Nah, nobody does it by himself, and the East being so weak that year has a lot to do with it because it's not like Lebron played at a level beyond what Kobe did to get there. In fact, Kobe's 2001 and 2002 playoff runs were more impressive to me. Also, one thing Lebron's cast gets underrated for is that they were a top 4 defensive team and outrebounded opponents by 3.7 boards per game. Playing that style made it so he needed less help offensively than if he had the same offensive talent around him and an average defensive/rebounding team, so listing his teammates would be deceptive.

Also, as it turned out, he got clutch performances from his shooters at the right time to make that run possible such as Marshall in the closeout game vs New Jersey, iirc and more famously, Daniel Gibson.

If you look at those teams, they faced Washington without Arenas or Butler and a Nets team with a horrible frontline(their big men were Mikki Moore, Jason Collins and Josh Boone). And they didn't breeze by New Jersey either, it also helped that Vince Carter had a horrible series vs Cleveland(another reason not to underestimate the value of a strong defense).

His game 5 vs Detroit was incredible, but his run wasn't really that impressive to me, at least compared to the level I've seen other superstars play at or Lebron himself play at in other seasons.

[Cowboy Thunder]

These types of threads are the silliest of all ISH threads. :lol

[Dizzle-2k7]

kobe the best 2nd option of all time :bowdown:

[madmax]

LeBron is clearly the worst of the group and I'm not exaggerating, trolling, or anything like that.

LeBron in '07-'08 had a lot of problems and a lot of problems with his game that you could easily expose and they were exposed in the post-season.

LeBron at 23 had an inconsistent jump shot and played no defense. It is only two problems but those two problems are huge especially for a superstar player.

I have a hard time choosing between Durant and Kobe but LeBron is clearly last.


1. Durant/Kobe
2. Kobe/Durant
3. Lebron.

Lebron was also on by far the weakest team and his scrub teammates needed his stellar play day in day out to have any chance against elite teams

[LamarOdom]

So I'm suppose to be impressed by LeBron James leading his team to the Finals in a conference where there is no competition what so ever outside of one team that self-destructed annually? :roll:

Cool story bro. I'll take the player that is the superior scorer, superior defender, superior rebounder, more clutch, and better at pretty much every aspect of the game outside of passing/playmaking.

Take more assists, I'll take more of everything else.


He wasn't 23 when he accomplished that you idiot.

Look i am not gonna debate about how good of a defender LeBron was at 23 so i'll give you that one. But superior scorer, reounder and as a defender you do know what superior means right?

LeBron was a much better rebounder then Durant and it isn't even close Durant can't even grab a offensive rebound if his life depended on it, LBJ as 23 yr old avraged 7,9 reb and 1,8 was off, Durant just as many but only 0,6 offensive. Lets not forget Durant got 2-3 inches on LeBron, so i would call Durant a very poor rebounder.

Well Superior scorer, he may be a better scorer but superior? you make Lebron sound as a Perkins kind of scorer. LeBron got a career average of 27,7 points a game don't forget that.

Clutch? LeBron before last year he was the leauge leading scorer in the fourth Q for as many years as i remember. But something went wrong last season and he hasn't recoverd from that but he'll be back.

Whats the other aspects? please do explain!

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron was a much better rebounder then Durant and it isn't even close Durant can't even grab a offensive rebound if his life depended on it, LBJ as 23 yr old avraged 7,9 reb and 1,8 was off, Durant just as many but only 0,6 offensive. Lets not forget Durant got 2-3 inches on LeBron, so i would call Durant a very poor rebounder.

No he wasn't. Lebron averaged 7.9 rpg at age 23 and Durant is currently averaging 7.9 rpg. Here is the difference, LeBron averaged about 41 mpg that season while Durant averages like 38 mpg. You don't think 3 minutes make much of a difference? There is a reason why Durant's rebounding numbers per 36 minutes are better.

Durant's rpg per 36 minutes, 7.5
LeBron's rpg per 36 minutes, 7.0

Durant is the superior/better rebounder whichever you want to call it. It's the same thing to me, better and superior.


Well Superior scorer, he may be a better scorer but superior? you make Lebron sound as a Perkins kind of scorer. LeBron got a career average of 27,7 points a game don't forget that.

Superior and better is the same thing, baby dick.


So what do you have for me? Oh yeah, nothing.

[chazzy]

Kobe was phenomenal in the clutch and better individually than the numbers suggest because he embraced the 2nd option role throughout the season and stepped up when necessary. See his 2002 series vs the Spurs for his clutch play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HgzXLQCTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

[LamarOdom]

No he wasn't. Lebron averaged 7.9 rpg at age 23 and Durant is currently averaging 7.9 rpg. Here is the difference, LeBron averaged about 41 mpg that season while Durant averages like 38 mpg. You don't think 3 minutes make much of a difference? There is a reason why Durant's rebounding numbers per 36 minutes are better.

Durant's rpg per 36 minutes, 7.5
LeBron's rpg per 36 minutes, 7.0

Durant is the superior/better rebounder whichever you want to call it. It's the same thing to me, better and superior.



Superior and better is the same thing, baby dick.


So what do you have for me? Oh yeah, nothing.

No it isn't you dumb * high school dropout, get back to school and read the vocabulary.

[StateOfMind12]

No it isn't you dumb * high school dropout, get back to school and read the vocabulary.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Vpyt5Oe-GS0/TX768tbjZ3I/AAAAAAAACY8/WIdk-WW1heQ/butthurt.png

[LamarOdom]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Vpyt5Oe-GS0/TX768tbjZ3I/AAAAAAAACY8/WIdk-WW1heQ/butthurt.png

Well that's very mature i bet you are 15 yrs old. But however you wanna twist & turn LeBron is and was a much better player and if the standings from Cavs season doesn't tell you that then you should stop watching BB.

Put KD on a team like Magics w/o DH and he will have a hard time getting to the playoffs and that is the big diffrence between KD and tha King!

[StateOfMind12]

Well that's very mature i bet you are 15 yrs old. But however you wanna twist & turn LeBron is and was a much better player and if the standings from Cavs season doesn't tell you that then you should stop watching BB.

Put KD on a team like Magics w/o DH and he will have a hard time getting to the playoffs and that is the big diffrence between KD and tha King!
Yes of course, LeBron is better even though he was an inferior scorer, rebounder, defender, and inferior in every aspect of the game outside of passing/playmaking. That makes a whole lot of sense. :rolleyes: :facepalm

You haven't single reason why LeBron was better at age 23.

[LamarOdom]

Yes of course, LeBron is better even though he was an inferior scorer, rebounder, defender, and inferior in every aspect of the game outside of passing/playmaking. That makes a whole lot of sense. :rolleyes: :facepalm

You haven't single reason why LeBron was better at age 23.

Ohhhh that you just don't understand that BB is so much more than stat. LeBron was a better defender going after stat as 23 yr old (KD= 1,4spg 1,2bpg LBJ= 1,8spg 1,1bpg) but even w/o the stats LeBron is and WAS a better 1-1 defender, better team defender and thats one of the reasons Cavs was such good defensive team.

LeBron is a better ball handler, great IQ, less TO despite being playmaker, Actually for playing off the ball KD got a shietload of TO (3,7 a game against LBJ 3,4 a game at the same age.) And yeah some other things like being stronger, faster and shiet that doesn't matter to you.

[StateOfMind12]

Ohhhh that you just don't understand that BB is so much more than stat. LeBron was a better defender going after stat as 23 yr old (KD= 1,4spg 1,2bpg LBJ= 1,8spg 1,1bpg) but even w/o the stats LeBron is and WAS a better 1-1 defender, better team defender and thats one of the reasons Cavs was such good defensive team.

Basketball is beyond stats, and beyond stats Durant is better. Durant is a better defender and no it has nothing to do with spg, bpg, Durant was a much better man to man defender than LeBron was at 23. LeBron did not play defense at all back when he was 23 in the '07-'08 season.

LeBron was the one of the reasons why the Cavs were such a good defensive team? :roll: It had to do with the fact that Mike Brown was their coach, idiot.

Durant is the superior defender of the two at age 23 and it's not close.

Lets see what you have next...




LeBron is a better ball handler, great IQ, less TO despite being playmaker, Actually for playing off the ball KD got a shietload of TO (3,7 a game against LBJ 3,4 a game at the same age.) And yeah some other things like being stronger, faster and shiet that doesn't matter to you.
Ok, so LeBron is a better ball-handler, better playmaker, and is more athletic.

Cool, I'm assuming you also think current Derrick Rose better than current Kevin Durant right? :confusedshrug:


You have had nothing for me. LeBron did like two things better than Durant and one of them doesn't even matter. Lebron was a better ball-handler which doesn't even matter seeing that Durant plays and moves without the basketball. LeBron is a better passer/playmaker which doesn't matter either because it's not Durant's job to be the primary playmaker/passer, his job is to score.

What do you have next? Because you still have nothing for me. Durant is the superior scorer, superior rebounder, superior defender, and superior every aspect other than playmaking or ball-handling.

[LamarOdom]

Basketball is beyond stats, and beyond stats Durant is better. Durant is a better defender and no it has nothing to do with spg, bpg, Durant was a much better man to man defender than LeBron was at 23. LeBron did not play defense at all back when he was 23 in the '07-'08 season.

LeBron was the one of the reasons why the Cavs were such a good defensive team? :roll: It had to do with the fact that Mike Brown was their coach, idiot.

Durant is the superior defender of the two at age 23 and it's not close.

Lets see what you have next...



Ok, so LeBron is a better ball-handler, better playmaker, and is more athletic.

Cool, I'm assuming you also think current Derrick Rose better than current Kevin Durant right? :confusedshrug:


You have had nothing for me. LeBron did like two things better than Durant and one of them doesn't even matter. Lebron was a better ball-handler which doesn't even matter seeing that Durant plays and moves without the basketball. LeBron is a better passer/playmaker which doesn't matter either because it's not Durant's job to be the primary playmaker/passer, his job is to score.

What do you have next? Because you still have nothing for me. Durant is the superior scorer, superior rebounder, superior defender, and superior every aspect other than playmaking or ball-handling.

One more time with that moves of the ball. So 3,6 TO a game comes from what just shootin in the hands of opponents?

[NumberSix]

It's actually pretty close, but you have to factor in that LeBron and KD have had to deal with constant double/triple teams and ALWAYS being the main focus of the opponents defense. ESPECIALLY LeBron.

Kobe had the luxury of playing 1-on-1 for the first 8 years of his career because Shaq always had at least 2 defenders on him at all times.

[StateOfMind12]

The guy who won a championship. Then Durant. Then the guy who has already lost two NBA finals.
Pretty much this, at least for now.

If Durant wins a championship this season and the Finals MVP then Durant would clearly be the best of the three though. With that being said, LeBron at age 23 is clearly the worst of the three. Durant would have to really suck major dick for the rest of the season to be considered worse than LeBron was at age 23.


i agree with this
:cheers:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nah, nobody does it by himself.

I didn't mean that in the literal sense, but James' help was a far cry from it was in 2009 & 2010, the years he took his teams to Conference and Semifinals.


In fact, Kobe's 2001 and 2002 playoff runs were more impressive to me.

I was EASILY more impressed with Lebron from '06-08 than I was with Kobe (who arguably had the greatest PEAK player alongside him), during the Lakers 3-peat.

I'll give you the competition, but the East hang their hats on the defensive side of the ball. Top to bottom, they've been better on that end for ATLEAST a decade now...maybe even longer.

[LamarOdom]

It's actually pretty close, but you have to factor in that LeBron and KD have had to deal with constant double/triple teams and ALWAYS being the main focus of the opponents defense. ESPECIALLY LeBron.

Kobe had the luxury of playing 1-on-1 for the first 8 years of his career because Shaq always had at least 2 defenders on him at all times.

Yeah KD doesn't get DT nearly as much as LBJ did. Russell WB Harden draws to much attention.

[chazzy]

I'll give you the competition, but the East hang their hats on the defensive side of the ball. Top to bottom, they've been better on that end for ATLEAST a decade now...maybe even longer.
Detroit and Boston were good defensively, but Washington/NJ were below average. 98-03 was one of the best defensive eras ever - Kobe played great against good defensive teams like the Spurs, Kings, Nets, Blazers etc.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Detroit and Boston were good defensively, but Washington/NJ were below average. 98-03 was one of the best defensive eras ever - Kobe played great against good defensive teams like the Spurs, Kings, Nets, Blazers etc.


Jersey was about average in 2007 (15th out of 30 in DRtg). Boston and Detroit alone are better than any defense Kobe went up against. And those Spurs teams were hilariously flawed due to injuries (Derek Anderson in 2001 / D-Rob in 2002).

When healthy in 2003, San Antonino held Kobe below his averages.

[I.R.Beast]

Who is the best?

And so everyone doesn't get all butthurt, I'll include advanced stats and even out the minutes played to per 36 and therefore everything is equal.


Kobe 23.7 ppg 18.8 FGA 5.2 rpg 5.1 apg 47.9 eFG% .199 WSp48 23.2 PER
LeBron 26.8 ppg 19.5 FGA 7.0 rpg 6.4 apg 51.8 eFG% .242 WSp48 29.1 PER
Durant 26.5 ppg 18.5 FGA 7.5 rpg 3.2 apg 55.9 eFG% .247 WSp48 27.8 PER

The Lakers went 58-24 and won the NBA title
The Cavs went 45-37 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs
The Thunder are on pace to go 66-16(if it were an 82 game season)

23 year old Kobe played before hand-check was completely removed... unfair comparision IMO...zone + handcheck era was hardest era to score in

[chazzy]

Jersey was about average in 2007 (15th out of 30 in DRtg). Boston and Detroit alone are better than any defense Kobe went up against.
Boston was, not Detroit though IMO. Detroit was at its best in 04 and gradually decline as the years went by - not to mention the laxed perimeter defense after the rule changes.

When healthy in 2003, San Antonino held Kobe below his averages
Kobe wasn't healthy after the Wolves series though :lol

[ShaqAttack3234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HgzXLQCTM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

:applause: Rather than people focusing on who Kobe was playing with, why isn't it brought up in this thread that in this particular series that featured the top 3 players in the league, Kobe was the best out of the 3 in the series? Same goes for the '01 match up, actually. That should show how good Kobe was in his own right.


I didn't mean that in the literal sense, but James' help was a far cry from it was in 2009 & 2010, the years he took his teams to Conference and Semifinals.

Yeah, but Lebron was a much better player those years than in '07, and the Cavs won over 10 more games in '10 and 16 more in '09. Would've probably won 67 and 63-65 games, respectively had they not locked up HCA.

Those Cavs teams were a more serious threat to beat the team in the West, imo, and didn't necessarily take a weak conference to elevate them. The East improved quite a bit from '07.


I was EASILY more impressed with Lebron from '06-08 than I was with Kobe (who arguably had the greatest PEAK player alongside him), during the Lakers 3-peat.

I'll give you the competition, but the East hang their hats on the defensive side of the ball. Top to bottom, they've been better on that end for ATLEAST a decade now...maybe even longer.

As Chazzy mentioned, Kobe faced some really good defensive teams such as the Blazers, Spurs, Nets and Sixers.

Personally, I consider '06-'08 Lebron better than '00 Kobe, but '01 and '02 Kobe better than '07 Lebron and maybe '06 and '08 Lebron. Kobe was a great defender back then, and didn't have the jump shot holding him back(or even free throw shooting in Lebron's case). Certainly the level Kobe played at in the '01 playoffs was more impressive to me than any pre-'09 version of Lebron.

But I'll admit this is debatable.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

at age 23, Kobe was by far the better defender of the 3...plus, he would not implode, unlike Lebron.

[chazzy]

Yeah 01 and 02 Kobe vs 06 and 08 Lebron is very close. Kobe's game had less holes in it but Lebron was just relentless physically.

[che guevara]

at age 23, Kobe was by far the better defender of the 3...plus, he would not implode, unlike Lebron.
What is with this bullshit that '08 Lebron wasn't a good defender? Just because the media didn't catch on until '09 doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender; he was already pretty good defensively in '07, but he took it to another level in '08. I mean, it took until the end of last season before most people realized that Lebron had a jumper, even though he solved the problem 2-3 years before that.

The first 20 games of the season before his hand injury, when he was playing with balls to the wall intensity every play on both ends of the floor, was possibly the best stretch of D I've ever seen Lebron play. He wasn't as fundamentally sound as he is now, but he made up for that with his effort. And in the playoffs, he held Pierce well below his averages, even if he did explode in game 7.

[Celtics4ever]

Kobe
.
.
Durant
.
.
..
..
..
..
LeBron

LeBron played in the weak east for a very long time. The east sucked like garbage, they had no good teams at all.

[Nash]

LeBron is clearly the worst of the group and I'm not exaggerating, trolling, or anything like that.

LeBron in '07-'08 had a lot of problems and a lot of problems with his game that you could easily expose and they were exposed in the post-season.

LeBron at 23 had an inconsistent jump shot and played no defense. It is only two problems but those two problems are huge especially for a superstar player.

I have a hard time choosing between Durant and Kobe but LeBron is clearly last.


1. Durant/Kobe
2. Kobe/Durant
3. Lebron.
I love how you disregarded everything Lebron did by saying he had no jump shot. Seems to me that Kobe didn't score enough points and that Durant didn't have enough assists is much worse than Lebron supposedly having no jumpshot while averaging 28ppg in 51%.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

What is with this bullshit that '08 Lebron wasn't a good defender? Just because the media didn't catch on until '09 doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender; he was already pretty good defensively in '07, but he took it to another level in '08. I mean, it took until the end of last season before most people realized that Lebron had a jumper, even though he solved the problem 2-3 years before that.

The first 20 games of the season before his hand injury, when he was playing with balls to the wall intensity every play on both ends of the floor, was possibly the best stretch of D I've ever seen Lebron play. He wasn't as fundamentally sound as he is now, but he made up for that with his effort. And in the playoffs, he held Pierce well below his averages, even if he did explode in game 7.

Kobe was a GREAT defender. At best, Lebron was a good defender..,..never great.

[28renyoy]

23 year old Kobe played before hand-check was completely removed... unfair comparision IMO...zone + handcheck era was hardest era to score in

Defense in 2001 44.3 FG%
Defense in 2008 45.7 FG%
Defense in 2012 44.3 FG%

Durant and Kobe have faced virtually the same defenses while LeBron's was significantly easier. Durant has posted by far the best numbers scoring wise

[Indian guy]

What is with this bullshit that '08 Lebron wasn't a good defender? Just because the media didn't catch on until '09 doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender; he was already pretty good defensively in '07, but he took it to another level in '08. I mean, it took until the end of last season before most people realized that Lebron had a jumper, even though he solved the problem 2-3 years before that.

The first 20 games of the season before his hand injury, when he was playing with balls to the wall intensity every play on both ends of the floor, was possibly the best stretch of D I've ever seen Lebron play. He wasn't as fundamentally sound as he is now, but he made up for that with his effort. And in the playoffs, he held Pierce well below his averages, even if he did explode in game 7.

This.

LeBron played the best defense of his career in the first quarter of the 07-08 season. And I have been saying this for forever.

It seems like it takes 2-3 years for people to overcome their perceptions about LeBron. If you'd listen to these idiots, you'd think '09 was the first season he played D, '11 the first season he had a non-sucky jumper, and the '11 playoffs the first time he made a big basket in his career. People don't have a clue about LeBron.

[StateOfMind12]

I love how you disregarded everything Lebron did by saying he had no jump shot. Seems to me that Kobe didn't score enough points and that Durant didn't have enough assists is much worse than Lebron supposedly having no jumpshot while averaging 28ppg in 51%.
LeBron also played no defense.

You are telling me LeBron is the best of the three even though his jumper was inconsistent and he played no defense. :oldlol:

We all know LeBron was the worst scorer of the three too mainly because he isn't a scorer. I don't even know what he is, he isn't a playmaker/passer either, he is just some stat accumulator.

Lebron is the best scorer which is exactly why in that post-season he was held to like 35% shooting by the Boston Celtics. You are telling me Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant were that bad of scorers? :oldlol: I don't think so.

[chazzy]

Defense in 2001 44.3 FG%
Defense in 2008 45.7 FG%
Defense in 2012 44.3 FG%

Durant and Kobe have faced virtually the same defenses while LeBron's was significantly easier. Durant has posted by far the best numbers scoring wise
Defenses didn't suddenly get better this season - offenses are worse this year because of the lockout. Superstars aren't nearly as affected as mediocre/role players are. And that doesn't factor in easier perimeter defenses since 05

[WeGetRing2012]

Is this a series question. Kobe was like a prodigy he was one of the most skilled young players ever. Both Durant & Lebron rely on their natural ability while Kobe relies on his skill set. Not to mention that at a very young age Kobe proved he could win when it mattered most & that he could help lead a team to championships. Lebron still hasn't developed a great mid-range game and Durant hasn't developed his skill set yet. And they both haven't lead their teams to rings.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Defense in 2001 44.3 FG%
Defense in 2008 45.7 FG%
Defense in 2012 44.3 FG%

Durant and Kobe have faced virtually the same defenses while LeBron's was significantly easier. Durant has posted by far the best numbers scoring wise

As Chazzy pointed out, this is clearly because of the lockout with team's being out of sorts offensively and a good amount of players being out of shape.


This.

LeBron played the best defense of his career in the first quarter of the 07-08 season. And I have been saying this for forever.

It seems like it takes 2-3 years for people to overcome their perceptions about LeBron. If you'd listen to these idiots, you'd think '09 was the first season he played D, '11 the first season he had a non-sucky jumper, and the '11 playoffs the first time he made a big basket in his career. People don't have a clue about LeBron.

Who denies Lebron could shoot in '09 and '10? His shot was better than ever in '11, but I don't hear many people denying that he could shoot before then. '07 and '08 were his real questionable shooting seasons. His defense was average by '07, imo and above average by '08, still wouldn't take '08 Lebron over 3peat or '03 and '08 Kobe defensively, though.

[rodman91]

All of them has some advantages compared to eachother.

Kobe: Versatile Scorer.Fundamentals. One on one defense.

Lebron: Dominant scorer.All around.Help defense. Athleticism.

Durant:Sharp shooter.Height & reach.

Overall : Lebron > Kobe > Durant.

Franchise: If i have one good big man : Kobe, If i have weak roster: Lebron, If i have complimentary players: Durant would be best choice. (similar to what they had most of their career)

[Indian guy]

Who denies Lebron could shoot in '09 and '10?

Everyone. The average poster you'll run into on any basketball forum, even as recently as last season, didn't think LeBron could shoot. It's very hard for people to overcome years-long perception. They still talk about LeBron like it's '07.


His defense was average by '07, imo and above average by '08

He was a good defensive player by '08 easily. Easily. ESPN just hadn't caught up with it and let's face it, that's where 90% of the people get their information from.

All that said, unless you suck, defense should never be the decider between perimeter players. Their impact is just too minimal.


still wouldn't take '08 Lebron over 3peat or '03 and '08 Kobe defensively, though.

'03 and 06-09 Kobe is better than '08 LeBron. It's a tough call between any other Kobe version though.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

the 23 year old who got 250 million shoe endorsement deal.

[Lebron23]

LeBron James

[ShaqAttack3234]

Everyone. The average poster you'll run into on any basketball forum, even as recently as last season, didn't think LeBron could shoot. It's very hard for people to overcome years-long perception. They still talk about LeBron like it's '07.

I don't know, some were ignorant, but I think there were quite a few that by '09 realized how good Lebron's overall game was and that he could shoot. There are always some who don't watch games or trolls who hold on to anything they can(come to think of it, I do still remember holding on to that "LeBrick" nonsense).


'03 and 06-09 Kobe is better than '08 LeBron. It's a tough call between any other Kobe version though.

You mean as an overall player, right? Because the versions I was giving(3 peat, '03 and '08) were referring to just defense.

[ralph_i_el]

It's funny how great of a player Pau is when talking about the Lakers' last two championships, and how worthless he is when discussing a trade.

because it's not 2009?