If Heat fail again due to Lebron's late game woes, is it possible they trade Lebron?

[guy]

Lets say they get eliminated again in the Finals or earlier in the playoffs and its due to Lebron playing the way he has vs. the Celtics in 2010 and the Mavs in 2011. Basically he disappears for the 3rd straight year. Do the Heat trade Lebron? I've heard Brian Windhorst from the Heat index say that if they don't win again, then the Heat will break up the big 3. I've also heard some commentators say that if Lebron shrinks again this year, they think it will be so mentally painful that Lebron will never get over his mental weakness. Is it possible they break up this trio by trading Lebron after this season? Is it possible they think that there ceiling will always be an amazing regular season, then a few playoff series' wins only to face an opponent that keeps it so close that the end of games will be fumbled away by Lebron's disappearance or passiveness? Alot of people will point to Bosh being the first one traded, but its not like its anything Bosh does or doesn't do that has resulted in losses like what we are talking about.

If the Heat were willing to trade him, would all parties approve the following trades?

Lebron to the Knicks for Melo
Lebron/Chalmers to the Knicks for Melo/Lin
Lebron to the Thunder for Westbrook
Lebron/Anthony to the Thunder for Westbrook/Ibaka
Lebron to the Nets for Deron
Lebron to the Magic for Dwight (if he's still in Orlando)
Lebron/Chalmers/Pittman to the Celtics for Pierce/Rondo

^^Basically trades for a player that already is or could potentially be a better late game performer not afraid of the moment or a trade that results in a better basketball fit (Howard for example). Name any others that you think could possibly be made.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Theyll trade someone but it wont be LeBron

[ReturnofJPR]

That will never happen.

The best thing of all is that the HEAT are built to fail in the playoffs. Once a team gets them in the halfcourt game and minimizes possessions, like what the playoffs are all about, then the HEAT become a very small team as their elite transition game is rendered useless. For example, good teams rarely turn the ball over to create those fast break opportunities where Miami excels at. Philly turns the ball over about 5 times a game, maybe less. The Lakers showed how to beat the HEAT. Sure Bosh was out, but he's not exactly an enforcer down low. He's a jump shooting big man. Besides, every team has to deal with injuries this season whether it's Derrick Rose or RIP Hamilton missing lots of games..

[Lebron23]

That will never happen.

The best thing of all is that the HEAT are built to fail in the playoffs. Once a team gets them in the halfcourt game and minimizes possessions, like what the playoffs are all about, then the HEAT become a very small team as their elite transition game is rendered useless. For example, good teams rarely turn the ball over to create those fast break opportunities where Miami excels at. Philly turns the ball over about 5 times a game, maybe less. The Lakers showed how to beat the HEAT. Sure Bosh was out, but he's not exactly an enforcer down low. He's a jump shooting big man. Besides, every team has to deal with injuries this season whether it's Derrick Rose or RIP Hamilton missing lots of games..


They are still going to beat the Chicago Bull$hits in 5 games. This is an overreaction thread. Nothing to see here folks.

[SpecialQue]

In other words, OP wants attention, and lots of it.

[nathanjizzle]

he wants back in Cleveland

[Lebron23]

Mental weakness my @$$. Go play some basketball outside. The Lakers out-rebounded the Heat last night.

[ReturnofJPR]

They are still going to beat the Chicago Bull$hits in 5 games. This is an overreaction thread. Nothing to see here folks.

And if that happens, what are the HEAT going to do? Beat the Lakers with Bynum and Gasol down low? :lol

[Lebron23]

In other words, OP wants attention, and lots of it.


Why would the Heat trade him? He's the Miami Heat's most consistent player. He only missed 1 game this season.

[Lebron23]

And if that happens, what are the HEAT going to do? Beat the Lakers with Bynum and Gasol down low? :lol


Miami are 3-1 againts the Lakers in their last 4 games. Miami with Bosh >>> a healthy Lakers team.

[nathanjizzle]

Miami are 3-1 againts the Lakers in their last 4 games. Miami with Bosh >>> a healthy Lakers team.

holdon, when the bulls swept the miami heat in the regular season last year it doesnt matter because "regular season doesnt matter". but when the heat are 3-1 against the lakers in the regular season it matters? :roll: heat fans:facepalm

[guy]

:oldlol: @ Lebron fans getting so sensitive. This isn't a hate thread. Its a legit question. He's disappeared like no other 2 seasons in a row now and this season he's still showing many of those same passive characteristics at the end of games. If it only happened once, it shouldn't be considered a likely chance to happen again. But its happened 2 seasons in a row now, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if it happened for a 3rd season in a row.

[Lebron23]

holdon, when the bulls swept the miami heat in the regular season last year it doesnt matter. but when the heat are 3-1 against the lakers in the regular season it matters? :roll: heat fans:facepalm


Because Miami Heat are a superior team than the Chicago Bulls. Wade and LeBron >>> Derrick Rose.

[HurricaneKid]

Sure Bosh was out, but he's not exactly an enforcer down low. He's a jump shooting big man. Besides, every team has to deal with injuries this season whether it's Derrick Rose or RIP Hamilton missing lots of games..

Whoa. Hold up. Its not just that Bosh was out. Its that this meant LBJ would be on Pau and that the corpse of Juman Howard would play meaningful minutes. It wasn't as glaring in other games because they didn't go up against multiple really good bigs but they really need him. Inarguably more than they need Wade.

[guy]

I'm not really referring to last night's game by the way.

[nathanjizzle]

Because Miami Heat are a superior team than the Chicago Bulls. Wade and LeBron >>> Derrick Rose.

what did that false statement have to do with what i said prior? ur a joke.

[ReturnofJPR]

holdon, when the bulls swept the miami heat in the regular season last year it doesnt matter because "regular season doesnt matter". but when the heat are 3-1 against the lakers in the regular season it matters? :roll: heat fans:facepalm

There's too much logic in your post for it to compute with their sun warped tiny minds of south florida. Ever see the type of news that comes out of Florida? It is the most despicable, backwards, perverted state in America.

Is Derrick Rose the reigning MVP? Oh yes, he is. :steadypimpin:

[Lebron23]

:oldlol: @ Lebron fans getting so sensitive. This isn't a hate thread. Its a legit question. He's disappeared like no other 2 seasons in a row now and this season he's still showing many of those same passive characteristics at the end of games. If it only happened once, it shouldn't be considered a likely chance to happen again. But its happened 2 seasons in a row now, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if it happened for a 3rd season in a row.


They only trade him for Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard. LeBron is a better playoffs performer than Durant and Howard.

[HurricaneKid]

:oldlol: @ Lebron fans getting so sensitive. This isn't a hate thread. Its a legit question. He's disappeared like no other 2 seasons in a row now and this season he's still showing many of those same passive characteristics at the end of games. If it only happened once, it shouldn't be considered a likely chance to happen again. But its happened 2 seasons in a row now, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if it happened for a 3rd season in a row.

Its not being sensitive. You asked a STUPID question. You might as well have asked if the Lakers should amnesty Kobe. The only reason someone would ask these question is if they were trolling.

[Lebron23]

what did that false statement have to do with what i said prior? ur a joke.

Lakers without Phil Jackson and Lamar Odom are a beatable team. Please don't compare the Bulls to the Lakers. Lakers won back to back titles, and they are a veteran playoffs team. Rose will never be in the same level as Kobe.

[Lebron23]

Its not being sensitive. You asked a STUPID question. You might as well have asked if the Lakers should amnesty Kobe. The only reason someone would ask these question is if they were trolling.


This

/END THREAD

[ralph_i_el]

There is still less than a 50% chance the heat win a championship this year. He's on a ridiculously favorable contract. You can't get anything back worth as much as him.

[StateOfMind12]

They would probably listen to offers and no longer make LeBron an untouchable. I don't think he would be traded though but I do think that he would just walk out in 2014.

I don't why LeBron fans are getting so upset about this subject. Do you honestly care if he leaves Miami? :oldlol: You'll still be following him either way.

[nathanjizzle]

Because Miami Heat are a superior team than the Chicago Bulls. Wade and LeBron >>> Derrick Rose.

http://gifsoup.com/view1/3483640/lebron-passes-again-o.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view5/3483635/derrick-rose-sixers-o.gif

but but but......

[Pharcyde]

They'll trade Bosh this year after the Bulls beat them in 6.

Actually if Howard is not traded I'd trade LeBron for Howard. Only to make LeBron23 mad though.

[guy]

Its not being sensitive. You asked a STUPID question. You might as well have asked if the Lakers should amnesty Kobe. The only reason someone would ask these question is if they were trolling.

Brian Windhorst, a journalist that covers the Heat and has covered Lebron since before his career even began, has said he is almost 100% sure they will break up this trio if the Heat don't win this year. Last year, the biggest reason the Heat lost was cause of Lebron's passiveness in the Finals. They probably wouldn't trade Wade due to how much he's meant to that franchise and city and they probably wouldn't trade Bosh because Wade/Bosh is a better fit then Wade/Lebron. Most people logically think that if Lebron can't get over his mental weakness for a 3rd year in a row, he will never get over it. Tell me HOW its a stupid question?

Why would the Lakers amnesty Kobe exactly? How is that even comparable? They've shared alot more successes together then the Heat and Lebron, amnestying Kobe wouldn't result in more cap space, and they wouldn't contend without him like the Heat would still contend with Wade/Bosh + another superstar.

[StateOfMind12]

They'll trade Bosh this year after the Bulls beat them in 6.
Trading Bosh would probably make the least sense out of all the possible trade scenarios involving the big three.

[AlphaWolf24]

http://gifsoup.com/view1/3483640/lebron-passes-again-o.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view5/3483635/derrick-rose-sixers-o.gif

but but but......


wow!...Rose's clutch shot last night?

exact same position and he gets the running floater...:bowdown:

[Lebron23]

http://gifsoup.com/view1/3483640/lebron-passes-again-o.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view5/3483635/derrick-rose-sixers-o.gif

but but but......

Get that Weak stuff out of here.


http://rt-now.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-james-blocks-derrick-rose-game-4.jpg

[Bandito]

Melo for lebron? Are you serious? Your trades ideas are retarded. If they trade for someone at this stage is gonna be for Dwight and they still could get another player.because he's that good. Even then they won't trade him, if they trade someone it would be either bosh or wade. He fill seats and jerseys there is no way they'll trade him.

[ReturnofJPR]

http://gifsoup.com/view1/3483640/lebron-passes-again-o.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view5/3483635/derrick-rose-sixers-o.gif

but but but......

And look at the opponent too. @ Philly is incredibly difficult where as @ UTAH is a gimme game. Well, it's supposed to be.

[guy]

They only trade him for Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard. LeBron is a better playoffs performer than Durant and Howard.

Durant doesn't have a large sample size cause he hasn't been around that long. Possibly Howard, but like I said, he's probably a better basketball fit on the Heat.

Its not about who's better in this case, cause with any of those trades the Heat are still a contender. Its been pretty clear in the past few years though that players like Melo, Deron, Westbrook, Pierce, and Rondo are much more fearless players then Lebron though.

And Lebron's not the same playoff performer he was from 2006-2009. Clearly expectations and him not being the underdog anymore has gotten to him.

[DaaaaBULLS]

Its not being sensitive. You asked a STUPID question. You might as well have asked if the Lakers should amnesty Kobe. The only reason someone would ask these question is if they were trolling.

I think I'm starting to understand this website better every day. So let's clarify: Legit Lebron questions= stupid and trolling. Heat/Lebron fans talking shit about every other team and player and getting all upset when their "king" is criticized= not trolling.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/153/800/Meth lab.jpg

[nathanjizzle]

wow!...Rose's clutch shot last night?

exact same position and he gets the running floater...:bowdown:

its exactly the same play, all the players are in the same position. Rose is just more clutch is all.

[madmax]

If anything Lebron plays much better when Wade is not on the court, since he doesn't have to worry about giving him the touches in ISO sets and can play his natural game with Bosh and the rest of the role players. I think the real problem here is Wade and his declining game, which affects the rest of his teammates and especially Lebron

[DaaaaBULLS]

If anything Lebron plays much better when Wade is not on the court, since he doesn't have to worry about giving him the touches in ISO sets and can play his natural game with Bosh and the rest of the role players. I think the real problem here is Wade and his declining game, which affects the rest of his teammates and especially Lebron

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying D Wade is a bad player. But I've noticed sometimes when I watch Heat games this year he seems like he has been declining in his game and he'll hog the ball more and settle for worse shots. I don't know if that has to do with Lebron being on the court though or him getting old. Who knows. He's still scoring just under 23 ppg though which isn't bad at all.

[guy]

If anything Lebron plays much better when Wade is not on the court, since he doesn't have to worry about giving him the touches in ISO sets and can play his natural game with Bosh and the rest of the role players. I think the real problem here is Wade and his declining game, which affects the rest of his teammates and especially Lebron

No. Its cause Lebron plays scared when it matters most instead of playing fearless like its game 5 of the 2007 ECF against the Pistons like he's done before. If anything, last year's Finals wasn't just a big f*ck up on his part due to a lack of production and clutch plays, but also because he completely changed the way he played from the first 3 rounds which obviously messed up the dynamic and chemistry with the rest of his teammates. He did the whole "play like Magic more then Michael" in the Finals when he was basically playing like Michael in the first 3 rounds. (Its just a comparison, as great as he was in the first 3 rounds, he definitely was not as great as Michael, and he definitely wasn't playing like Magic in the Finals cause Magic doesn't play like that EVER.)

[TheMan]

Because Miami Heat are a superior team than the Chicago Bulls. Wade and LeBron >>> Derrick Rose.
LMAO
LBJ>everyone
Rose>Wade
Rose>Bosh

Don't even try and tell me you as a Heat fan wouldn't trade Wade for Rose straight up right now if that trade was on the table:lol .

[madmax]

No. Its cause Lebron plays scared when it matters most instead of playing fearless like its game 5 of the 2007 ECF against the Pistons like he's done before. If anything, last year's Finals wasn't just a big f*ck up on his part due to a lack of production and clutch plays, but also because he completely changed the way he played from the first 3 rounds which obviously messed up the dynamic and chemistry with the rest of his teammates. He did the whole "play like Magic more then Michael" in the Finals when he was basically playing like Michael in the first 3 rounds. (Its just a comparison, as great as he was in the first 3 rounds, he definitely was not as great as Michael, and he definitely wasn't playing like Magic in the Finals cause Magic doesn't play like that EVER.)

well of course, you being MJ stan would downplay his clutch performances during last year playoffs...:violin: I noticed this double standard thing going on with Lebron as opposed to other all-time greats, always picking on his worst games and forgetting all the great ones that he had:rolleyes: I guess that's how people's perception works according to what media and general opinion pumps to them. MJ failed plenty of times too, yet no one even dares to mention it. Oh the wonders of hypocrisy

[MichaelCheazley]

LMAO
LBJ>everyone
Rose>Wade
Rose>Bosh

Don't even try and tell me you as a Heat fan wouldn't trade Wade for Rose straight up right now if that trade was on the table:lol .
I 100% wouldn't. Im a believer in keeping your franchises' best player till he retires. And why would i want an less effective player next to lebron. The current problems just get worse with rose on our team.

[guy]

well of course, you being MJ stan would downplay his clutch performances during last year playoffs...:violin: I noticed this double standard thing going on with Lebron as opposed to other all-time greats, always picking on his worst games and forgetting all the great ones that he had:rolleyes: I guess that's how people's perception works according to what media and general opinion pumps to them. MJ failed plenty of times too, yet no one even dares to mention it. Oh the wonders of hypocrisy

I never said his clutch performances in the playoffs last year were not great. I was just saying they weren't as great as Jordan's, which they weren't. Also, Jordan's had failures but nothing remotely close to the Finals last year. In fact, whenever Jordan had failures it was pretty much always against teams where he was the underdog instead of against teams he was supposed to beat.

[pauk]

Its a mystery how admins here love to keep these threads up and close anything else that has not Lebrons name on it....

[Clutch]

Get that Weak stuff out of here.


http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/amare.gif
FIXED

[I.R.Beast]

If anything Lebron plays much better when Wade is not on the court, since he doesn't have to worry about giving him the touches in ISO sets and can play his natural game with Bosh and the rest of the role players. I think the real problem here is Wade and his declining game, which affects the rest of his teammates and especially Lebron
because he has no offball, is indecisive with the ball, he's the definition of a ballstopper.

[HurricaneKid]

Brian Windhorst, a journalist that covers the Heat and has covered Lebron since before his career even began, has said he is almost 100% sure they will break up this trio if the Heat don't win this year. Last year, the biggest reason the Heat lost was cause of Lebron's passiveness in the Finals. They probably wouldn't trade Wade due to how much he's meant to that franchise and city and they probably wouldn't trade Bosh because Wade/Bosh is a better fit then Wade/Lebron. Most people logically think that if Lebron can't get over his mental weakness for a 3rd year in a row, he will never get over it. Tell me HOW its a stupid question?

Why would the Lakers amnesty Kobe exactly? How is that even comparable? They've shared alot more successes together then the Heat and Lebron, amnestying Kobe wouldn't result in more cap space, and they wouldn't contend without him like the Heat would still contend with Wade/Bosh + another superstar.

Wade is also injury prone and three years older than LeBron. And Bosh doesn't fit their need for an inside presence. Its conceivable they would break up the team but its not going to be at the expense of LBJ. Besides, I have tremendous confidence they will be holding the O'Brien Trophy this year.

Because they will be in rebuilding mode and having a player making >50% of the cap, be heavily taxed, etc. Its comparable because they are both STUPID things to say.

[guy]

Its a mystery how admins here love to keep these threads up and close anything else that has not Lebrons name on it....

A HEAT insider said they will break up the trio if they don't win this year. Why is it so ridiculous to speculate this possibility?

:oldlol: so sensitive.

[Pharcyde]

Trading Bosh would probably make the least sense out of all the possible trade scenarios involving the big three.

Trading any of them makes zero sense.

[guy]

Wade is also injury prone and three years older than LeBron. And Bosh doesn't fit their need for an inside presence. Its conceivable they would break up the team but its not going to be at the expense of LBJ. Besides, I have tremendous confidence they will be holding the O'Brien Trophy this year.

Because they will be in rebuilding mode and having a player making >50% of the cap, be heavily taxed, etc. Its comparable because they are both STUPID things to say.

Its possible they could trade Wade or Bosh before Lebron. I haven't disputed that. But there's plenty of reasons they would trade Lebron first. First of all, Bosh's inside presence didn't stop the Heat from beating KG's Celtics or the Noah/Boozer/Asik/Gibson Bulls. And it wasn't Bosh that was the biggest reason they lost to the Mavs. Most people agree that if Lebron played even just a little below average then his standards, then they would've won that series. Add to the fact that Wade/Lebron may be too alike and teaming either one with Bosh instead of together is a better fit, and Bosh may be considered less to be traded.

So then it would be between Wade or Lebron. Going forward they may want to keep Lebron over Wade for the reasons you stated. But its also possible that would rather keep Wade because they think the ceiling for success with Lebron is less than with Wade due to his mental weakness and unexplained passiveness (which will be even more evident if it happened a 3rd year in a row), Wade has meant much more to that franchise and its fans, and because its more likely that Wade will finish his career with Miami as opposed to Lebron.

Why do the Lakers want to go in rebuilding mode? They are not comparable cause one isn't a stupid thing to say. If the Heat traded Lebron for another superstar + some other pieces, they are still contending. If the Lakers amnesty Kobe they are not contending anymore especially cause they aren't getting anything back in that situation.

[Alamo]

holdon, when the bulls swept the miami heat in the regular season last year it doesnt matter because "regular season doesnt matter". but when the heat are 3-1 against the lakers in the regular season it matters? :roll: heat fans:facepalm

Yup. That's Heat fan logic right there :roll: :roll:

[Alamo]

LMAO
LBJ>everyone
Rose>Wade
Rose>Bosh

Don't even try and tell me you as a Heat fan wouldn't trade Wade for Rose straight up right now if that trade was on the table:lol .

He's not a heat fan, he's a Lebron dikk rider. He would just follow Lebron wherever he went. As would half of the Heat fans.

[Indian guy]

Lebron playing the way he has vs. the Celtics in 2010

What was wrong with LeBron's play in this series? If you thought he disappeared, then what in GOD's name do you think Kobe did against Boston in the '10 Finals?


and the Mavs in 2011.

Now this was a disappearance, not a "late game" collapse. He sucked no more in the 4th qtr than any other qtr.


Basically he disappears for the 3rd straight year.

LeBron did not disappear in '10. This is a media made myth. Stop being a dumbass. He was more productive against Boston than he was in any series in the '11 playoffs.


end of games will be fumbled away by Lebron's disappearance or passiveness?

You do realize that Wade's been a worse late-game player than LeBron the last 2 seasons, right?

If the Heat do trade LeBron, I want them to do it because he has major physical limitations in his game that render him ineffective when the game slows down. Not because of the garbage you spewed.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron did not disappear in '10. This is a media made myth. Stop being a dumbass. He was more productive against Boston than he was in any series in the '11 playoffs.

Not a media myth at all. He DID disappear. Quit being Lebron's c*mdumpster.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

You cant rewrite history, sorry kiddo.

[guy]

What was wrong with LeBron's play in this series? If you thought he disappeared, then what in GOD's name do you think Kobe did against Boston in the '10 Finals?



Now this was a disappearance, not a "late game" collapse. He sucked no more in the 4th qtr than any other qtr.



LeBron did not disappear in '10. This is a media made myth. Stop being a dumbass. He was more productive against Boston than he was in any series in the '11 playoffs.



You do realize that Wade's been a worse late-game player than LeBron the last 2 seasons, right?

If the Heat do trade LeBron, I want them to do it because he has major physical limitations in his game that render him ineffective when the game slows down. Not because of the garbage you spewed.

Lebron completely disappeared in game 5 of that 2010 series. There's no masking that with statistics or anything like that. Outside of game 3 where he was all-time great, he didn't disappear in games 1, 2, 4, and 6, but he was way too passive and showed questionable effort and leadership in those games. He had a few stretches in those games where he was very productive, but he also had stretches where he just didn't look like he cared at all. Its a testament to his greatness that while looking like he didn't care at all, he still put up great numbers. But anyone watching those games, especially game 6 where he put up some gaudy numbers, could see that his heart wasn't into it and that pretty much completely sucked the life out of his whole team. His numbers for that whole series is also somewhat inflated by his game 3, which I've already admitted was all-time great.

I never said Kobe in the 2010 Finals didn't suck. He sucked badly. I point it out all the time. But at the same time, he didn't waddle around like he could care less. He didn't play like he didn't want it. So while the quality of his production was questionable, his leadership and effort wasn't and he had the full support and unity of his teammates as a result. That makes a huge difference.

Wade's role late in games since Lebron joined him has been greatly reduced due to the Heat almost always going to Lebron. That doesn't say much.

[HurricaneKid]

Its possible they could trade Wade or Bosh before Lebron. I haven't disputed that. But there's plenty of reasons they would trade Lebron first. First of all, Bosh's inside presence didn't stop the Heat from beating KG's Celtics or the Noah/Boozer/Asik/Gibson Bulls. And it wasn't Bosh that was the biggest reason they lost to the Mavs. Most people agree that if Lebron played even just a little below average then his standards, then they would've won that series. Add to the fact that Wade/Lebron may be too alike and teaming either one with Bosh instead of together is a better fit, and Bosh may be considered less to be traded.

So then it would be between Wade or Lebron. Going forward they may want to keep Lebron over Wade for the reasons you stated. But its also possible that would rather keep Wade because they think the ceiling for success with Lebron is less than with Wade due to his mental weakness and unexplained passiveness (which will be even more evident if it happened a 3rd year in a row), Wade has meant much more to that franchise and its fans, and because its more likely that Wade will finish his career with Miami as opposed to Lebron.

Why do the Lakers want to go in rebuilding mode? They are not comparable cause one isn't a stupid thing to say. If the Heat traded Lebron for another superstar + some other pieces, they are still contending. If the Lakers amnesty Kobe they are not contending anymore especially cause they aren't getting anything back in that situation.

Your entire basis of this is that someone covering the Heat thinks they MIGHT break it up IF they don't win. He doesn't have a source, no front office people have indicated it as a possibility, nothing. He just has an inkling. That inkling is largely based on the fact that Miami is a small market team and carrying these salaries really only works if they can sell a TON of merch, etc. Which will only happen if they become the dominant team they initially hoped they would have. Trading LeBron makes them a LESS marketable team. End of story.

The Lakers don't WANT to rebuild. And maybe this year they won't. But as the new CBA takes effect the taxation skyrockets and their stars age. I'm not defending the idea. I am calling it assinine. But using some of the major leaps in logic you seem to be it seems plausible (no, not really).

[Indian guy]

Lebron completely disappeared in game 5 of that 2010 series.

The funny thing is, if you watch that game again, he's more aggressive in looking to create something than he tends to be in most Heat games.


but he was way too passive and showed questionable effort and leadership in those games.

No. You have been brainwashed by hindsight(bolting Cleveland), Dan Gilbert and the media. Passive in Game 1 and 4? Are you ****ing kidding me? His most ball-dominant game of the entire series was Game 4. These games are all uploaded on YT. Go and watch them.


but he also had stretches where he just didn't look like he cared at all.

Myth. LeBron's more animated and intense in that Celtics series that he's ever been as a Heat.


Its a testament to his greatness that while looking like he didn't care at all, he still put up great numbers. But anyone watching those games, especially game 6 where he put up some gaudy numbers, could see that his heart wasn't into it and that pretty much completely sucked the life out of his whole team.

Blah blah blah blah. You're merely repeating what the clueless-media and Dan Gilbert have brainwashed you into believing. This is NOT what happened on the basketball court.

Here's the infamous Game 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDojlInj3Cg&feature=plcp&context=C334205bUDOEgsToPDskJyGCWVdJAXczTstmJ1D3Rv&t=2m40s) of that series. Zoom through it and tell me if he doesn't care or is even half as passive as made out to be. He actually starts off the game making a bunch of plays.


Wade's role late in games since Lebron joined him has been greatly reduced

These are their clutch stats from last season - http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM. Look at the FGA, they both basically took the same amount of shots at the end of games.


due to the Heat almost always going to Lebron.

Even if this perception exists, you should be questioning WHY Miami goes to LeBron more. The answer to that is he's generally having the better 4th qtr. Wade's awesome, but clutch he isn't.

[coin24]

Aaahhh if Lebron pulls that shit in the finals again, "HEAT" fans should want him gone...

But.. "Lebron" stans will cry every excuse under the sun and love him still:lol Im still surprised people buy into his BS hype after last seasons finals tbh:confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

The funny thing is, if you watch that game again, he's more aggressive in looking to create something than he tends to be in most Heat games.

I'm skimming through it right now and he's not looking to score at all at times. Passes it off, and then floats around the 3pt line for the rest for play like he's Kapono or something.

[pegasus]

Howard for Lebron makes too much sense not to be explored by both teams. If Orlando keeps Howard this season, and if Lebron disappears in the playoffs again, I can see a sign&trade w/ Howard to make it happen.

[Nash]

Nothing will happen, what they will do is get themselves a proper center and go from there. Probably end up sacrificing Mike Miller

[guy]

Your entire basis of this is that someone covering the Heat thinks they MIGHT break it up IF they don't win. He doesn't have a source, no front office people have indicated it as a possibility, nothing. He just has an inkling. That inkling is largely based on the fact that Miami is a small market team and carrying these salaries really only works if they can sell a TON of merch, etc. Which will only happen if they become the dominant team they initially hoped they would have. Trading LeBron makes them a LESS marketable team. End of story.

The Lakers don't WANT to rebuild. And maybe this year they won't. But as the new CBA takes effect the taxation skyrockets and their stars age. I'm not defending the idea. I am calling it assinine. But using some of the major leaps in logic you seem to be it seems plausible (no, not really).

I've never said they would definitely trade Lebron. I've never even said they would definitely break up the trio. Maybe if you weren't so emotional about this, you would've realized that. I personally don't even think they would break them up no matter what just because of marketability, the fact that there's been lesser teams that have been put together that were considered favorites that weren't broken up that quickly, and because chemistry wise they would have to start over after investing so much into this.

Brian Windhorst is an insider. Insidehoops is a message board. I'm so sorry for speculating something on a damn message board that an insider mentioned. And why would anyone expect a front office person to ever confirm something like this? Its not like I published this is as a factual story in the f*cking New York Times. You think its such a stupid topic, what the hell are you doing even wasting your time on it?

Its funny that I'm stupid to speculate this as a possibility. But idiots on this board have no shame on debating where Lebron will rank WHEN, not if, he wins multiple championships :oldlol:

[returnofthemack]

Miami are 3-1 againts the Lakers in their last 4 games. Miami with Bosh >>> a healthy Lakers team.

going by your logic when the cavs swept the regular season series agaisnt the spurs in 07 that made them the better team? oh yeah lebrons puck butt got swept in the finals. the regular season means jack and shiaaat.

[guy]

The funny thing is, if you watch that game again, he's more aggressive in looking to create something than he tends to be in most Heat games.



No. You have been brainwashed by hindsight(bolting Cleveland), Dan Gilbert and the media. Passive in Game 1 and 4? Are you ****ing kidding me? His most ball-dominant game of the entire series was Game 4. These games are all uploaded on YT. Go and watch them.



Myth. LeBron's more animated and intense in that Celtics series that he's ever been as a Heat.



Blah blah blah blah. You're merely repeating what the clueless-media and Dan Gilbert have brainwashed you into believing. This is NOT what happened on the basketball court.

Here's the infamous Game 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDojlInj3Cg&feature=plcp&context=C334205bUDOEgsToPDskJyGCWVdJAXczTstmJ1D3Rv&t=2m40s) of that series. Zoom through it and tell me if he doesn't care or is even half as passive as made out to be. He actually starts off the game making a bunch of plays.



These are their clutch stats from last season - http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM. Look at the FGA, they both basically took the same amount of shots at the end of games.



Even if this perception exists, you should be questioning WHY Miami goes to LeBron more. The answer to that is he's generally having the better 4th qtr. Wade's awesome, but clutch he isn't.

I haven't been brainwashed by anything. The series was only 2 years ago and I watched it. I vividly remember him playing with a complete lack of intensity and with a disinterested look in his face for the majority of that series outside of game 3. A few plays here and there where that wasn't the case doesn't change that.

LOL @ this being some made up thing by the media. What incentive do the media have to do that? The media would love to push him as the next GOAT, which they have hyped him as alot ever since he came into the league. You think the media doesn't want to see another player as great as Jordan? But unfortunately, even for them its hard to deny the stink he laid and what was in front of their eyes.

You're right about Lebron and Wade. Generally, Lebron does give the Heat a great 4th quarter in the first 8-10 minutes. Even better then Wade. After that though, he usually lays an egg and despite that they still keep going to Lebron. Part of it seems to be they choose to ignore that thats what happens to Lebron in every single close game and they just keep going with him. Thats the problem. They rarely ever go to the guy thats actually led this team to a championship who even though may not be playing as well as Lebron in the first 8-10 minutes of the 4th quarter, won't tighten up and be afraid of the moment like Lebron. It definitely does seem like they keep going with Lebron in order to not show him they have lost confidence in him.

[Alamo]

going by your logic when the cavs swept the regular season series agaisnt the spurs in 07 that made them the better team? oh yeah lebrons puck butt got swept in the finals. the regular season means jack and shiaaat.

They will just say Lebron had no help.

Lebron fans have no sense of reason what so ever. They are too busy drooling over his stats.

[Oositdwn]

They will just say Lebron had no help.

Lebron fans have no sense of reason what so ever. They are too busy drooling over his stats.
Funny since they seem to ignore the most important stats. (Finals 07,11)

[DMV2]

Spoelstra will lose his job first before any trades of the Big 3. I think Spo is riding on that free Finals pass this season but if the Heat lose in the playoffs against an Eastern team, he's definitely gone. If they lose in the Finals? I'll give him a 49/51 chance of staying.

I think they're going to ride the LeBron-Wade-Bosh train until their contracts are up, or at least play it out until there's a year or two left.

[SpecialQue]

This thread sucks.

I wish there was some way to make it awesome.

[SpecialQue]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gifs_081.gif

[HurricaneKid]

I've never said they would definitely trade Lebron. I've never even said they would definitely break up the trio. Maybe if you weren't so emotional about this, you would've realized that. I personally don't even think they would break them up no matter what just because of marketability, the fact that there's been lesser teams that have been put together that were considered favorites that weren't broken up that quickly, and because chemistry wise they would have to start over after investing so much into this.

Brian Windhorst is an insider. Insidehoops is a message board. I'm so sorry for speculating something on a damn message board that an insider mentioned. And why would anyone expect a front office person to ever confirm something like this? Its not like I published this is as a factual story in the f*cking New York Times. You think its such a stupid topic, what the hell are you doing even wasting your time on it?

Its funny that I'm stupid to speculate this as a possibility. But idiots on this board have no shame on debating where Lebron will rank WHEN, not if, he wins multiple championships :oldlol:

Emotional? :roll:

I just hate what this board has become. I frankly expect better from you. I have quite a few people on ignore now but you are one of a few people with an opposing viewpoint I don't mind a give or take on the matter.

If you look at the article Windhorst wrote when he said that he spent more time backing away from it than he did discussing it.

I don't care to have that conversation either. If you search my posts my last few were in defense of Kobe and discussing how the Lakers outplayed Mia. I'm not in the bag for anyone, though I can certainly understand how you might think I am a LBJ fan.

Given your position on the matter the thread seems to be a troll; this post seems to admit to such an agenda.

[iDefend5]

Emotional? :roll:

I just hate what this board has become.

Then don't post here. I'm assuming you are just banned on RealGM and this is the only message board you have left to talk about basketball.

[guy]

Emotional? :roll:

I just hate what this board has become. I frankly expect better from you. I have quite a few people on ignore now but you are one of a few people with an opposing viewpoint I don't mind a give or take on the matter.

If you look at the article Windhorst wrote when he said that he spent more time backing away from it than he did discussing it.

I don't care to have that conversation either. If you search my posts my last few were in defense of Kobe and discussing how the Lakers outplayed Mia. I'm not in the bag for anyone, though I can certainly understand how you might think I am a LBJ fan.

Given your position on the matter the thread seems to be a troll; this post seems to admit to such an agenda.

I didn't read his article. I heard it from him on PTI a few weeks back when they were about to play Cleveland and he was quite convinced that breaking them up was a high possibility. Its a message board, which means speculation galore. Isn't that was this is for? If you don't think so, then why are you even on here?

Agenda? Is the mere possibility of a star player getting traded not one of the most popular topics on this board? Where do I sound like I have an agenda? People have talked about the possibility of this trio breaking up, specifically Lebron/Wade being broken up, since they first joined together. This isn't some off the wall topic I've brought up. Journalists, former players/coaches have talked about this from the beginning. I didn't pull this out of thin air. I'm just expanding on a speculation thats already been discussed by the media.

Whats my position? That Lebron has choked in an odd fashion two years in a row now? That Lebron has had extreme troubles closing out games? I can mention that in any of the 15 other Lebron topics on the first page. I didn't need to make another thread just to specifically highlight that.

[TheMan]

Aaahhh if Lebron pulls that shit in the finals again, "HEAT" fans should want him gone...

But.. "Lebron" stans will cry every excuse under the sun and love him still:lol Im still surprised people buy into his BS hype after last seasons finals tbh:confusedshrug:
This is what I don't get from LeBronites, instead of getting upset with the shit performance he put up in last year's finals and holding LeBron to a higher standard because, well, he's the best player in the world today, they just excuse his crap play and come up with tons of excuses.


LeBron sheep, obviously he can do no wrong for them.

[guy]

Then don't post here. I'm assuming you are just banned on RealGM and this is the only message board you have left to talk about basketball.

Seriously. I don't understand whats wrong with people that just get on threads to talk about how stupid the topic is. What does that make them then :oldlol:? Don't they have better things to do?

[Pharcyde]

Howard for Lebron makes too much sense not to be explored by both teams. If Orlando keeps Howard this season, and if Lebron disappears in the playoffs again, I can see a sign&trade w/ Howard to make it happen.


Howard doesn't want to go to Miami.

[iDefend5]

Seriously. I don't understand whats wrong with people that just get on threads to talk about how stupid the topic is. What does that make them then :oldlol:? Don't they have better things to do?
:oldlol:

Yeah there is a reason why he hasn't posted here since. He knows it's true that he just got banned on RealGM so he can only post and spew his garbage on here and yet he is complaining about this site. :oldlol:

[HurricaneKid]

:oldlol:

Yeah there is a reason why he hasn't posted here since. He knows it's true that he just got banned on RealGM so he can only post and spew his garbage on here and yet he is complaining about this site. :oldlol:

No, I'm here. Haven't been banned at RealGM. When I started posting here I didn't realize it was a minor league thread to RealGM. Perhaps I will see if people there are a little more reasonable. I sure would like to talk about Hoops but we rarely seem to get to that here.

[HurricaneKid]

Don't they have better things to do?

Not all the time. Obviously.

[iDefend5]

No, I'm here. Haven't been banned at RealGM. When I started posting here I didn't realize it was a minor league thread to RealGM. Perhaps I will see if people there are a little more reasonable. I sure would like to talk about Hoops but we rarely seem to get to that here.
:rolleyes: Sure you haven't which is why you started posting in the middle of no where.

There is no doubt in my mind you are a RealGM poster. Most of those idiots are delusional stat whores like yourself and hate on Kobe every chance they get and since you are banned on there, you have to spread your idiocy here.

You complain about the lack of knowledge on this site, maybe it is because you post here, and if you don't like it, how about you leave and go to another site that supports your terrible arguments and opinions? :confusedshrug:

[RaininTwos]

:oldlol: @ Lebron fans getting so sensitive. This isn't a hate thread. Its a legit question. He's disappeared like no other 2 seasons in a row now and this season he's still showing many of those same passive characteristics at the end of games. If it only happened once, it shouldn't be considered a likely chance to happen again. But its happened 2 seasons in a row now, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if it happened for a 3rd season in a row.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[BlitzForce]

perpetual 69'er :lol :oldlol:


http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gifs_081.gif

[Indian guy]

I vividly remember him playing with a complete lack of intensity and with a disinterested look in his face for the majority of that series outside of game 3.

Except this is NOT TRUE. You don't "remember" this, you're merely parroting the myth that's been built up around this series after LeBron's somewhat-passive Game 5. Nobody was accusing LeBron of not looking involved during Game 1-4 & 6 while the series was on. But as soon The Decision came and LeBron's image hit an all time low, people were willing to believe anything to sh!t on him.


What incentive do the media have to do that?

Uhh, Cleveland lost despite being heavy favorites. When you lose, everything is wrong. The opposite is true when you WIN.


The media would love to push him as the next GOAT, which they have hyped him as alot ever since he came into the league.

Yes, but they can't do this when he LOSES. Sports are all about winning. If you win, they praise you. If you lose, you lack something and they pick you apart.



Generally, Lebron does give the Heat a great 4th quarter in the first 8-10 minutes. Even better then Wade.

Don't say "even better than Wade". Wade was nothing short of AWFUL in crunch time last season.


After that though, he usually lays an egg and despite that they still keep going to Lebron.

LeBron had the best last 2-minutes stats in the NBA from 05-11. (http://www.backpicks.com/2012/02/23/clutch-play-shots-to-tielead-inside-2-minutes/) Your statement doesn't remotely stand.

[Lebron23]

This is a very stupid thread. I am gonna BUMP this thread after LeBron eliminates DeBrick Rose for the 3rd time in the playoffs.

[guy]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

So when Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon ask the question its legit, but when someone on ISH does its hate?

[iDefend5]

So when Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon ask the question its legit, but when someone on ISH does its hate?
If you haven't noticed, everyone who is calling you out for making this thread is a LeBron fan. Can you find a single person that called you out and is neutral or doesn't like LeBron? :oldlol: Exactly.

[Eric Cartman]

This is a very stupid thread. I am gonna BUMP this thread after LeBron eliminates DeBrick Rose for the 3rd time in the playoffs.

And i am going to bump it when the Lakers hand out Miami's ass on a platter in the finals chump.

[Lebron23]

And i am going to bump it when the Lakers hand out Miami's ass on a platter in the finals chump.


OKC Thunder, LA Clippers and Memphis Grizzlies are capable of beating the Jacksonless Lakers in the playoffs. Lakers are a much weaker team this season. Kobe will probably retire in the off season if LA fails to acquire Super Boy.

[SpecialQue]

This is a very stupid thread.

:pimp:

[iDefend5]

OKC Thunder, LA Clippers and Memphis Grizzlies are capable of beating the Jacksonless Lakers in the playoffs. Lakers are a much weaker team this season.
Good point, Lakers really struggled against the Heat yesterday, would you mind telling me the score again?

[Lebron23]

Good point, Lakers really struggled against the Heat yesterday, would you mind telling me the score again?


3-1 in their last 4 games. Noel and Drummond will have a better NBA Career than Crippled Ming.

[Alamo]

This is a very stupid thread. I am gonna BUMP this thread after LeBron eliminates DeBrick Rose for the 3rd time in the playoffs.

That must be the only thing Lebron is good at in the playoffs, because it's the only thing Lebron fans talk about. Eliminating a 21-22 year old PG from the Playoffs. :lol

How about you bump this when he performs well in the finals.

[SpecialQue]

The Lebron vs. Kobe argument: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzcqhuJxAp1qehdyjo1_500.gif

[Qwyjibo]

Another example of why we need negs back on this site.

Add a bunch of red under his name and everyone will know to ignore his posts when they come up.

[iDefend5]

3-1 in their last 4 games. Noel and Drummond will have a better NBA Career than Crippled Ming.
Huh? I was interested in what happened yesterday, what was the score of the Lakers-Heat game. My tv was out.

[Lebron23]

That must be the only thing Lebron is good at in the playoffs, because it's the only thing Lebron fans talk about. Eliminating a 21-22 year old PG from the Playoffs. :lol

How about you bump this when he performs well in the finals, like the thread title says.

Rose is not a good playoffs performer. He shot under 40% from the field againts a much weaker Pacers team last season. That's why I think that the Pacers are capable of beating the Bullies in the playoffs this year.

[Alamo]

Rose is not a good playoffs performer. He shot under 40% from the field againts a much weaker Pacers team last season. That's why I think that the Pacers are capable of beating the Bullies in the playoffs this year.

This thread is about Lebron James. Stay on topic.

[Dengness9]

This is a very stupid thread. I am gonna BUMP this thread after LeBron eliminates DeBrick Rose for the 3rd time in the playoffs.



Can you give any true reason to not liking Rose besides your pathetic Lebron James agenda?

Id be interested to hear why you continuously bash the guy.


And keep in mind that if Lebron FAILS again this postseason, you will vanish as quickly as Lebron's killer instinct vanishes in the last quarter of a close game.

Lebron might kill himself if he doesn't deliver again this year....will you off yourself as well?

[iDefend5]

Lebron might kill himself if he doesn't deliver again this year....will you off yourself as well?
:oldlol:

[SpecialQue]

http://i.imgur.com/ZQH5C.gif

[iDefend5]

The Lebron vs. Kobe argument: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzcqhuJxAp1qehdyjo1_500.gif
:roll:

[Oositdwn]

Another example of why we need negs back on this site.

Add a bunch of red under his name and everyone will know to ignore his posts when they come up.
You have to be living under a rock to not know who the real trolls on this site are.

[Lebron23]

Can you give any true reason to not liking Rose besides your pathetic Lebron James agenda?

Id be interested to hear why you continuously bash the guy.


And keep in mind that if Lebron FAILS again this postseason, you will vanish as quickly as Lebron's killer instinct vanishes in the last quarter of a close game.

Lebron might kill himself if he doesn't deliver again this year....will you off yourself as well?


You disappeared from this forum after the Heat beat the Bulls. You Rosetards are even worst than the Kobetards.

[Dengness9]

Rose is not a good playoffs performer. He shot under 40% from the field againts a much weaker Pacers team last season. That's why I think that the Pacers are capable of beating the Bullies in the playoffs this year.


Derrick Rose tied the record for most points in a playoff debut as a Rookie with 36(11 assists).

Last year as a 23 year old he was 3 wins away from the finals. He has plenty of time to get to the top of the mountain still, unlike your GOD Lefraud.

Know that when Rose does get to the finals he will seize the moment.

I know you are threatened by him. Atleast he isn't scared to shoot when it matters..... remember that Punk, who doesn't even support a team, only supports a player. Fairweather/Frontrunner/Not a True Fan.

[Dengness9]

You disappeared from this forum after the Heat beat the Bulls. You Rosetards are even worst than the Kobetards.



WRONG. PROVE IT. SHUTUP.

[Alamo]

You disappeared from this forum after the Heat beat the Bulls. You Rosetards are even worst than the Kobetards.

Just like you disappear every time Lebron loses. I can't imagine what was going through your head during the finals

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

WRONG. PROVE IT. SHUTUP.


Cry Baby

[SpecialQue]

The accuracy of some of the arguments in this thread: http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/funny-gifs-gymnastic-fail.gif

[Lebron23]

The accuracy of some of the arguments in this thread: http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/funny-gifs-gymnastic-fail.gif


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[pnyozzzoo]

You disappeared from this forum after the Heat beat the Bulls. You Rosetards are even worst than the Kobetards.

lol you sound man bro, I remember last week you talk like Lebron having best season ever, best player having best season ever don't choke or shrink and laugh it off like this.

clearly best player is not most important player on his own team. Bosh gone lost 2 in a row, wade gone bosh held lebron's hand and lift heat up, lebron and wade both gone, no problem, bosh single-handedly lead heat past the then pretty darn good hawks.

Matter of fact Lebron is a big time stat padder who is really good at sucking stats off his other teammates and when things get tough his fragile mentality cannot get the job done.

[SpecialQue]

http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y307/sapperific/corndog_o_GIFSoupcom.gif

[Oositdwn]

lol you sound man bro, I remember last week you talk like Lebron having best season ever, best player having best season ever don't choke or shrink and laugh it off like this.

clearly best player is not most important player on his own team. Bosh gone lost 2 in a row, wade gone bosh held lebron's hand and lift heat up, lebron and wade both gone, no problem, bosh single-handedly lead heat past the then pretty darn good hawks.

Matter of fact Lebron is a big time stat padder who is really good at sucking stats off his other teammates and when things get tough his fragile mentality cannot get the job done.
:applause: :applause:

[Lebron23]

lol you sound man bro, I remember last week you talk like Lebron having best season ever, best player having best season ever don't choke or shrink and laugh it off like this.

clearly best player is not most important player on his own team. Bosh gone lost 2 in a row, wade gone bosh held lebron's hand and lift heat up, lebron and wade both gone, no problem, bosh single-handedly lead heat past the then pretty darn good hawks.

Matter of fact Lebron is a big time stat padder who is really good at sucking stats off his other teammates and when things get tough his fragile mentality cannot get the job done.


Bulls won some games without the 6'1.5" Combo Guard. LeBron is a back to back NBA Player of the month awardee. He's clearly the best player of the Miami Heat. Wade sucked last night, and he had his worst game of the season.

Current Rose is not even a better playoffs performer than 21-24 yrs.old LeBron. Debrick choked in the Conference Finals, and his offensive game is pretty limited.

[Lebron23]

Debrick's game won't last longer unless he improves his fundamentals skills. An Out of Shape LeBron owned him in the conference Finals.

[Droid101]

Debrick's game won't last longer unless he improves his fundamentals skills. An Out of Shape LeBron owned him in the conference Finals.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

So LeBron was all of a sudden "out of shape" and that's why he choked his ass off in the following round?

You LeBron Nut huggers are HILARIOUS.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

So LeBron was all of a sudden "out of shape" and that's why he choked his ass off in the following round?

You LeBron Nut huggers are HILARIOUS.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


He regained his explosiveness this year. He lost weight during the season.

[Alamo]

I wonder if Lebron will score more than 17ppg if he makes it to the finals again

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

DeBrick Rose = The next Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury. Irving will surpass him in the next 3 years.

[Alamo]

Lol only Heat fans will talk about Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose in a thread about Lebron James. Probably because they know he's a choke artist.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[pnyozzzoo]

Current Rose is not even a better playoffs performer than 21-24 yrs.old LeBron.

I agree with that sentence, however that clutch, tough and driven young Detroit series Lebron is gone.

His is mentally injured now, he can still get huge stats and do alot freak stuff. but when the pressure is on everyone see red, he will just shrink and defer. Its not about 1 pass or miss last shot, its the idea of believing yourself and haing faith in your ability to turn things around. Not just do a good read and play good basketball and HOPE things will work out. When the pressure is on, great players do not hope things will work out, they MAKE things work out for themselves.

[Lebron23]

Lol only Heat fans will talk about Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose in a thread about Lebron James. Probably because they know he's a choke artist.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Post Rosey cheeks stats in the Conference Finals.

[Alamo]

Post Rosey cheeks stats in the Conference Finals.

LOL You can't even say Lebron's name because you're so embarrassed about him. Pathetic

[SpecialQue]

http://www.lolbrary.com/content/339/talented-magician-9339.gif

[SpecialQue]

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-k7vyrcFJhRM/Tq8oGDo5UaI/AAAAAAAAGn4/L7LBlxqDR-U/w300/64112046gw1dmg8rqygcgg.gif

[guy]

Except this is NOT TRUE. You don't "remember" this, you're merely parroting the myth that's been built up around this series after LeBron's somewhat-passive Game 5. Nobody was accusing LeBron of not looking involved during Game 1-4 & 6 while the series was on. But as soon The Decision came and LeBron's image hit an all time low, people were willing to believe anything to sh!t on him.


What? The Decision was a good 2 months after this series happened, and people were saying this right after the series finished and to a lesser extent during the series. The whole series they were questioning his effort due to his infamous elbow injury and were wondering if he was being passive cause of that elbow or for no reason at all. He was not playing AGGRESSIVE for whole games the way he did all the time in Cleveland before that.



Uhh, Cleveland lost despite being heavy favorites. When you lose, everything is wrong. The opposite is true when you WIN.



Yes, but they can't do this when he LOSES. Sports are all about winning. If you win, they praise you. If you lose, you lack something and they pick you apart.


The media could've easily spun it that his team just wasn't good enough. They clearly want him to succeed which is why they hype him so much as something he's so far isn't. They wouldn't just make up that he mailed it in. They claim that because its undeniable from watching it. If it were up to the media, Lebron and Kobe would've faced each other the last 4 Finals splitting each.




Don't say "even better than Wade". Wade was nothing short of AWFUL in crunch time last season.


LeBron had the best last 2-minutes stats in the NBA from 05-11. (http://www.backpicks.com/2012/02/23/clutch-play-shots-to-tielead-inside-2-minutes/) Your statement doesn't remotely stand.

I was talking about the 4th quarter in the first 8-10 minutes in a close game. I can't get stats with just the first 8-10 minutes of the 4th quarter, but for the 4th quarter as a whole, Lebron wasn't THAT much better then Wade in the 4th in a close game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2011&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=100&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=efg_pct

I've actually never said anything about his clutch play from 05-10 before the Boston series. I've always claimed that he was a very clutch player during his career up until the 2010 ECSF and then it seemed like the pressure and expectations after no longer being the underdog got to him at that point and got only worse for him once he joined Miami. Some of it seems to be physical limitations, which you have mentioned and I agree with, but I also think alot of it seems to be from a mental block in his head as a result of all the hate and criticism he's received and maybe because of his physical limitations as well.

As far as 2011 goes, you're right about Wade. He wasn't really that good in crunch time last year either. In the regular season though, he was actually a bit better then Lebron though on shots to tie or take the lead with 2:00 left.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2011&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=9&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=efg_pct

In the playoffs though, Lebron was better. I give him credit for what he did vs. Boston and Chicago in that series. But its not like it was that big of a sample size for Wade. Wade only took 3 attempts in that situation. And like I said, it was obvious that they were going to Lebron throughout the year in order to give him confidence. He did come through in those series though.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2011&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=3&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=efg_pct

I still take Wade over Lebron in the clutch though specifically in big games. The stats aren't much different last year. But Wade has led a team to a title in a clutch performance while Lebron has not, and Wade hasn't had odd mood swings in playoff series like Lebron did vs Boston and Dallas. Its one thing to play bad. Its another to show questionable effort and leadership.

And by the way, these stats don't take FTs into account, which would clearly deflate Lebron's clutch stats. And I'm not even arguing that for Wade. He's missed a lot of free throws in crunch time as well. All I'm saying is that doesn't paint a clear picture.

[Duncan21formvp]

Theyll trade someone but it wont be LeBron
They would trade him before they ever traded Wade.

[Jasper]

That will never happen.

The best thing of all is that the HEAT are built to fail in the playoffs. Once a team gets them in the halfcourt game and minimizes possessions, like what the playoffs are all about, then the HEAT become a very small team as their elite transition game is rendered useless. For example, good teams rarely turn the ball over to create those fast break opportunities where Miami excels at. Philly turns the ball over about 5 times a game, maybe less. The Lakers showed how to beat the HEAT. Sure Bosh was out, but he's not exactly an enforcer down low. He's a jump shooting big man. Besides, every team has to deal with injuries this season whether it's Derrick Rose or RIP Hamilton missing lots of games..
nice

The Lakers played very transition ball , which for them is like fast break ball for 7'ers. (besides their 1/2 court sets)
The tallest player for the HEAT at times was Anthony at 6'9" while Pau and Bynum were in there.
Factoid is if Bosh would be in there he would equalize Pau.
So lakers only advantage then would be Bynum.

That is why the Heat have more centers this year...
Assuming they hav to go against some bigs , they hope Curry , Howard can help Anthony create enough disorder that the 5 won't effect the game.

*I still think if Riles would of gotten Haywood from Dallas , this story would be mute.

The variable is that Battier is playing more minutes and finding his nitch with the Heat.
This defender is a huge upgrade from last year.
Cole as well as Chandlers maturity has also helped.

And lastly we will see in the playoff's Lebron playing alot more low post on offense creating foul trouble for their opponents.

[Indian guy]

What? The Decision was a good 2 months after this series happened, and people were saying this right after the series finished and to a lesser extent during the series.

This is simply not true. NOBODY was questioning LeBron's effort the first 4 games of the series. Nobody. Obviously, Game 5 changed that, but did you watch the link I posted of Game 5? Watch it and tell me if you see a LeBron who couldn't care less out there. LeBron attacked the defense more frequently in that game than he almost ever does as a Heat.

And yes, The Decision did change how people viewed that series. Before, the view was that he had an 'off' series with 1 weird game. After the Decision, and especially after Gilbert's rant where he accused LeBron of quitting the last 3 games, pretty much everybody changed their tune.


The media could've easily spun it that his team just wasn't good enough.

He had a sub-par series, so that's hard to do.


I've always claimed that he was a very clutch player during his career up until the 2010 ECSF

Well, he was plenty clutch in the 4th qtr of the only close game of that series - Game 1.


and then it seemed like the pressure and expectations after no longer being the underdog got to him at that point

This is complete BS. LeBron wasn't an underdog in '09 and his clutch stats were through the roof that postseason. They were terrific in the 2010 playoffs as well. He was very productive down the stretch of EVERY close game Cleveland played - Game 2 and 3 against Chicago. Game 1 against Boston.


Some of it seems to be physical limitations

Not some, but most of it. He's just a completely different player today stylistically. This is why he tends to be so hesitant/passive down the stretch of games today.


And like I said, it was obvious that they were going to Lebron throughout the year in order to give him confidence.

I don't know what makes you say that. Look up any late-game criteria out there, LeBron's been significantly better in the clutch than Wade in his career. That includes last season with the Heat. That's why Miami went to him MORE down the stretch, because he was often having the better 4th qtr.

[Lebron23]

Indian Guy is the MVP of ISH.

[Kingwillball]

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-k7vyrcFJhRM/Tq8oGDo5UaI/AAAAAAAAGn4/L7LBlxqDR-U/w300/64112046gw1dmg8rqygcgg.gif


Im sorry but that sh!t had me...:roll:

[Indian guy]

I'm skimming through it right now and he's not looking to score at all at times.

There were a few possessions like that in the 1st qtr, true, but it does seem like Cleveland's game plan was to force-feed into Shaq to start off the game. Remember, LeBron was ball-dominant the prior game and it didn't work out so well for Cleveland. They made a concerted effort to get other guys going in Game 5. That said, he was still doing plenty of playmaking the entire 1st half, and once the game started getting out of hand early 3rd qtr, LeBron became completely ball-dominant.

Assuming you skimmed through the entire game, do you agree that the game's reputation doesn't remotely match what actually happened in it? Also, just to show that I'm not alone in thinking LeBron's drastically declined, can you also admit that he was a completely different player then(since I've seen you allude to it in other posts)?

[guy]

This is simply not true. NOBODY was questioning LeBron's effort the first 4 games of the series. Nobody. Obviously, Game 5 changed that, but did you watch the link I posted of Game 5? Watch it and tell me if you see a LeBron who couldn't care less out there. LeBron attacked the defense more frequently in that game than he almost ever does as a Heat.

And yes, The Decision did change how people viewed that series. Before, the view was that he had an 'off' series with 1 weird game. After the Decision, and especially after Gilbert's rant where he accused LeBron of quitting the last 3 games, pretty much everybody changed their tune.


I did say to a LESSER extent during the series. And yes, there were mentions of it. It didn't become a dominant theme talked about 24/7 until after game 5, but there were mentions of it. There was media questioning how serious his elbow injury was and if that was why he wasn't playing with the same intensity. And after game 3, much of the media thought that that criticism fueled his all-time great performance and then all of a sudden the elbow wasn't mentioned at all for the rest of the series.

Yes, I skimmed through game 5. And I saw the same thing another poster mentioned. Him just parked at the 3 point line. I even saw a play where he was jogging on a fast break. There were a few normal plays, but its not like I literally meant he disappeared and vanished.

Yes, the Decision made it worse obviously. But it wasn't just pulled out of thin air.

We can agree to disagree on this. I'm not going to watch rewatch a whole series just for this, when I vividly remember what happened and what was being said at the time.



He had a sub-par series, so that's hard to do.


His teammates didn't play well either. They could've easily spun that into his teammates were just bad, which some actually did do.



Well, he was plenty clutch in the 4th qtr of the only close game of that series - Game 1.

This is complete BS. LeBron wasn't an underdog in '09 and his clutch stats were through the roof that postseason. They were terrific in the 2010 playoffs as well. He was very productive down the stretch of EVERY close game Cleveland played - Game 2 and 3 against Chicago. Game 1 against Boston.


I meant as he started to become more of a favorite instead of an underdog and I meant against competition that were on the Cavs level. I didn't literally mean right when he became a favorite, and teams like the Pistons, Hawks, and Bulls were clearly inferior competition.



Not some, but most of it. He's just a completely different player today stylistically. This is why he tends to be so hesitant/passive down the stretch of games today.

Doesn't really explain the Mavs series or when he passes a cross court pass with 4 seconds left to his teammate that has only hit one three all year when he had already hit six threes in that meaningless all-star game. He clearly has a fear he can't get over. Its ridiculous to deny that.



I don't know what makes you say that. Look up any late-game criteria out there, LeBron's been significantly better in the clutch than Wade in his career. That includes last season with the Heat. That's why Miami went to him MORE down the stretch, because he was often having the better 4th qtr.

I don't care about anything from 04 to the first round of 2010. I've already said that Lebron was clearly a different player physically and mentally after that. As far as last year goes, look at the stats I posted. He wasn't significantly better at anything. They were pretty much the same except for the playoffs where Wade didn't take many late shots.

I say that because that seemed to be the case when they would go to Lebron for game winning shots and never go to Wade despite Lebron failing in the same situation multiple times before that. And I trust him over Lebron in that situation just cause he does not seem mentally shook despite whatever failures he may have had and he's had highs that Lebron has never had (championship) and has never had the lows that Lebron has had (Boston, Dallas.

[pmj]

As far as last year goes, look at the stats I posted.

The stats you posted show Wade 3/9 and Lebron 5/15. So you sort by EFG% to make Wade look better?

Here's more stats from last year:
2010-2011:

4th qtr & overtime, < 2 min, +/- 5 pts
Lebron 30/67 44.8%
Wade 16/43 37.2%

4th qtr & overtime, < 2 min, trailing by 5 or less
James 18/37 48.6%
Wade 9/25 36%

4th qtr & overtime, <2 min, shot to tie or take lead
James 9/23 39.1%
Wade 3/12 25%

4th qtr & overtime, <1 min, shot to tie or take lead
James 5/13 38.5%
Wade 2/11 18.2%

4th qtr & overtime, 30 seconds or less, shot to tie or take lead
James 2/10 20%
Wade 1/7 14.3%

4th qtr & overtime, 10 seconds or less, shot to tie or take lead
James 1/8 12.5%
Wade 0/4 0%

[Lebron23]

I hope Coach Spo let LeBron score more points in the 4th quarter.

[Alamo]

Indian Guy is the MVP of ISH.

Regular season MVP, or finals MVP?

[pmj]

The bottom line is people will continue to say "Wade's more clutch" b/c he has a ring.

I'm a Heat fan and a fan of both fairly equally, but my eyes (and now the stats) tell me Wade's been just as bad if not worse than Lebron, and Bosh has been surprisingly efficient in the clutch, but the only thing you ever hear is the talking heads repeating to give it to Wade.

[guy]

The stats you posted show Wade 3/9 and Lebron 5/15. So you sort by EFG% to make Wade look better?

Here's more stats from last year:
2010-2011:

4th qtr & overtime, < 2 min, +/- 5 pts
Lebron 30/67 44.8%
Wade 16/43 37.2%

4th qtr & overtime, < 2 min, trailing by 5 or less
James 18/37 48.6%
Wade 9/25 36%

4th qtr & overtime, <2 min, shot to tie or take lead
James 9/23 39.1%
Wade 3/12 25%

4th qtr & overtime, <1 min, shot to tie or take lead
James 5/13 38.5%
Wade 2/11 18.2%

4th qtr & overtime, 30 seconds or less, shot to tie or take lead
James 2/10 20%
Wade 1/7 14.3%

4th qtr & overtime, 10 seconds or less, shot to tie or take lead
James 1/8 12.5%
Wade 0/4 0%

Well thats what the original link he sent was sorted as so I did the same thing. I wasn't trying to make anyone look like anything.

I said he wasn't SIGNIFICANTLY better last year in the clutch which is true. If Lebron had one more miss and/or Wade had one more make in any of those attempts, they look alot closer with Wade being better under some of that criteria. Obviously with the sample sizes that small, every attempt has a huge % impact.

[EnoughSaid]

Worst thread ever. Does anyone even remember last year? LeBron had sooo many missed Game Winners or Game Tying shots... yet he went ham in the playoffs and delivered in the clutch time after time. Closed out the Celtics AND Bulls. STFU with this shit.

[guy]

The bottom line is people will continue to say "Wade's more clutch" b/c he has a ring.


And even more so because of the way Lebron choked the last two years. There's that too.

[SpecialQue]

Fvck this thread.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lumtmyS1gT1r25662o1_400.gif

[CardiacKemba]

The bottom line is people will continue to say "Wade's more clutch" b/c he has a ring.

I'm a Heat fan and a fan of both fairly equally, but my eyes (and now the stats) tell me Wade's been just as bad if not worse than Lebron, and Bosh has been surprisingly efficient in the clutch, but the only thing you ever hear is the talking heads repeating to give it to Wade.

Couldn't agree with this more, and I sit in the same situation as a Heat fan and equal fan of both too.

Yes Wade and LeBron have been well below par on many clutch situations, I will cop that and accept it. But what I won't listen to is people who say that the 'last second shot is the basis of being clutch'. When it comes down to one final shot, a number of things affect the outcome. The major factors would be the play the coach/leaders of the team run, and some darn good luck. Sending a player into iso to be the hero isn't the right basketball move, EVER, no matter how good they've been shooting.