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View Full Version : Prime Michael Jordan vs. Prime Kobe Bryant 1 on 1



Lebron23
03-05-2012, 12:20 PM
Who wins? Street Ball Rules. Hand checking is allowed.

http://thefanassociation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/michael-jordan-kobe-bryant.jpg

Lebron23
03-05-2012, 12:25 PM
Kobe wins 81 - 69....not even close..

teenage Kobe dropped 30 on Prime MJ.....Prime Kobe dropped 42 (In 1 1/2 quarters) on Wizard MJ......- age X year and BMI / 23 - 24 X 16 = Kobe 30 more points.


But Prime Jordan was an elite defender.

Nash-tastic
03-05-2012, 12:26 PM
:facepalm
Please... Why in the world did you start this thread? :facepalm

AlphaWolf24
03-05-2012, 12:28 PM
But Prime Jordan was an elite defender.
and still Highschool Kobe merked him...

MaxFly
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
If many here are willing to say that a 50 year old Jordan would beat a prime LeBron in a game of 1 on 1, I don't see much hope for this thread, but let's see how it goes.

Realistically, we're probably talking 50/50. Jordan's advantage in athleticism is offset by Bryant's shooting ability, especially from deep. Both players are just too good offensively for either to stop 1 on 1.

MaxFly
03-05-2012, 12:31 PM
Kobe wins 81 - 69....not even close..

teenage Kobe dropped 30 on Prime MJ.....Prime Kobe dropped 42 (In 1 1/2 quarters) on Wizard MJ......- age X year and BMI / 23 - 24 X 16 = Kobe better skills and more competitive.

And there goes what could have otherwise been a good discussion. :facepalm

Rnbizzle
03-05-2012, 12:35 PM
Toss up.

AlphaWolf24
03-05-2012, 12:37 PM
And there goes what could have otherwise been a good discussion. :facepalm


:roll:




(sarcasm right?)

dude77
03-05-2012, 12:37 PM
Kobe wins 81 - 69....not even close..

teenage Kobe dropped 30 on Prime MJ.....Prime Kobe dropped 42 (In 1 1/2 quarters) on Wizard MJ......- age X year and BMI / 23 - 24 X 16 = Kobe better skills and more competitive.

'prime jordan' .. didn't know bryant played through 90-93 .. 'prime kobe scored 42' .. jordan was an old man at 40 .. that's all you kobe phggts have .. bringing up games against an old used up jordan :oldlol: .. you're reaching so much your arm's gonna come off .. so biased you got kobe's nuts down your throat .. it freaks you out to say jordan is better .. which you know deep down is the truth

bwink23
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Just to compare a prime Kobe to an old ass Jordan to make a favorable comparison...is a victory for Jordan..:D

glidedrxlr22
03-05-2012, 12:43 PM
Second poster is a *******t.

AlphaWolf24
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Just to compare a prime Kobe to an old ass Jordan to make a favorable comparison...is a victory for Jordan..:D


42 in 1 half...making MJ cry on the bench.....almost exactly the same thing that happened to Wade (towel and everything).....

and MJ couldn't even handle teenage Kobe.....Kobe was lighting up MJ's azz at 18 years old.

bwink23
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
42 in 1 half...making MJ cry on the bench.....almost exactly the same thing that happened to Wade (towel and everything).....

and MJ couldn't even handle teenage Kobe.....Kobe was lighting up MJ's azz at 18 years old.


While MJ was NOT guarding him....MJ took him in the second half, how did Kobe do?? :D

AlphaWolf24
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
Second poster is a *******t.


seriously...he is.

bwink23
03-05-2012, 12:49 PM
42 in 1 half...making MJ cry on the bench.....almost exactly the same thing that happened to Wade (towel and everything).....

and MJ couldn't even handle teenage Kobe.....Kobe was lighting up MJ's azz at 18 years old.


Jordan got him one-on-one in the All-Star several times....and did whatever he wanted on Kobe....:D

Rnbizzle
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Right.

The evidence you guys have been presenting thus far has been; Kobe 'lighting up' a 40 year old MJ.. when MJ did not guard him all that much in that game. Also we're talking about MJ 'doing whatever he wanted to Kobe' in an all star game..? You guys are pathetic.

glidedrxlr22
03-05-2012, 01:10 PM
seriously...he is.

Ha what the hell happened there! I meant u AlphaWolf.....*******t for life gurggling on kobes balls forever.

FKAri
03-05-2012, 01:38 PM
w/ hand checking: Jordan easily
w/o handchecking: Kobe barely
w/ Pau or Shaq watching from the bleachers, Kobe

sekachu
03-05-2012, 01:45 PM
42 in 1 half...making MJ cry on the bench.....almost exactly the same thing that happened to Wade (towel and everything).....

and MJ couldn't even handle teenage Kobe.....Kobe was lighting up MJ's azz at 18 years old.



J Lin dropped 38 on kobe while he is a rookie.

AirTupac
03-05-2012, 01:45 PM
I think it all depends on who gets hot faster. Personally, I'd go with Jordan, but Kobe could take it in any game as well if he had his shot going on.

AlphaWolf24
03-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Ha what the hell happened there! I meant u AlphaWolf.....*******t for life gurggling on kobes balls forever.


mad

imdaman99
03-05-2012, 02:44 PM
in their primes, neither is stopping the other very often.

I<3NBA
03-05-2012, 02:59 PM
let's be real here. Kobe would be blown out.

rule1223
03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
depends on who gets first ball, but kobe has a chance of stopping jordan but jordan has absolutely no shot at stopping kobe

PickernRoller
03-05-2012, 03:14 PM
One on one both in their prime. It depends what type of game they play. Post? Half Court? 3 pt shooting?

Post = Mike
Half Court = Tied leaning to Mike - depends.
Beyond the arc = Kobe

inclinerator
03-05-2012, 03:17 PM
depends on who gets first ball, but kobe has a chance of stopping jordan but jordan has absolutely no shot at stopping kobe
:roll:

bwink23
03-05-2012, 03:25 PM
depends on who gets first ball, but kobe has a chance of stopping jordan but jordan has absolutely no shot at stopping kobe


Jordan could take Kobe in the post and do what he wants ALL DAY LONG>

bwink23
03-05-2012, 03:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhCR72IfEqg

Vienceslav
03-05-2012, 03:28 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/181/813/1726009-shut_up_and_take_my_money_super.jpg?1317708806

War Machine
03-05-2012, 03:33 PM
No NBA player of similar height in their prime (past/present/future) could defeat a prime Jordan in a one-on-one match-up, much less in an actual game. When Jordan was in his zone, he was unstoppable. Yes, I realize a similar argument could be made for Kobe, but MJ's killer instinct was in a whole different stratosphere.

I think all things considered, Kobe COULD win in a one-on-one match-up IF he grabbed a lucky rebound or two, or perhaps a sneaky steal.

Vienceslav
03-05-2012, 03:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhCR72IfEqg
What would you want him to say?:lol

LABean
03-05-2012, 04:43 PM
lol 1 on 1? No Pippen to bail out Jordan? :lol :lol

Easily Kobe. :bowdown:

bwink23
03-05-2012, 04:45 PM
lol 1 on 1? No Pippen to bail out Jordan? :lol :lol

Easily Kobe. :bowdown:


:facepalm :facepalm

Jordan shit on Pippen and practices against him every day....Kobe don't have anything for Jordan defensively :lol

No backcourt help to bail him out when he gets burned.

Dragonyeuw
03-05-2012, 05:18 PM
depends on who gets first ball, but kobe has a chance of stopping jordan but jordan has absolutely no shot at stopping kobe

More like neither has a chance of stopping each other. Jordan has the lateral quickness and instincts to keep in front of Kobe, so a lot depends on how hot Kobe is outside. A game with this kinds of offensive talents comes down to who misses first, especially with 'make it, take it' rules.

Round Mound
03-05-2012, 05:27 PM
Is this a serious question? :facepalm MJ easy

Alamo
03-05-2012, 05:32 PM
Prime Jordan vs Prime Kobe? So basically who would win in a midrange jumpshot contest?

Young Jordan vs Young Kobe? Now that would be interesting. Jordan takes it though.

TheMan
03-05-2012, 05:35 PM
This thread is full of fail.

Dwade305
03-05-2012, 05:42 PM
lol:facepalm

FindingTim
03-05-2012, 05:43 PM
Jordan: too strong, too fast, too good.

ImmortalD24
03-05-2012, 05:45 PM
I wouldn't bet against Jordan, but then again.. I wouldn't bet period if it's against Kobe.

Toss-up.


FTR: Jordan is the better player, but 1on1 is hard to predict.

LeFraud James
03-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Who wins?


Whomever is lucky enough to watch the matchup without suffering a heart-attack from what they had just witnessed. :bowdown:

Mid Range = Even
Long Range = Kobe
Post Game/Near the Basket = Jordan

I would give the slight edge to Jordan though. 55/45 if they played 100 times.

SwooshReturns
03-05-2012, 06:32 PM
Listen MJ is my favorite, Kobe's 2nd favorite all-time ... anyone who thinks MJ isn't losing some games of one v one to Kobe is out of their mind. He lost to BJ Armstrong at times playing one v one. Kobe's surely lost to people too.

I say if they play best of 7 games

Jordan wins 4, Kobe wins 3.

I can safely say there would be blood, sweat, screams, and shit talking galore.

Which I appreciate.

Ronaldinho
03-05-2012, 06:49 PM
Listen MJ is my favorite, Kobe's 2nd favorite all-time ... anyone who thinks MJ isn't losing some games of one v one to Kobe is out of their mind. He lost to BJ Armstrong at times playing one v one. Kobe's surely lost to people too.

I say if they play best of 7 games

Jordan wins 4, Kobe wins 3.

I can safely say there would be blood, sweat, screams, and shit talking galore.

Which I appreciate.
This. :applause:

Although i would bet on Kobe

Punpun
03-05-2012, 06:49 PM
Kobe has yet to finish his prime brah.

War Machine
03-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Kobe has yet to finish his prime brah.

I would disagree. I would say Kobe is a year or two already out of his prime.

Asukal
03-05-2012, 07:24 PM
Prime Jordan? No contest! (MJ said so himself) :roll: :roll: :roll:

lefthook00
03-05-2012, 08:36 PM
There are quite a few reasons why MJ is regarded as the better player of the two, but 1on1 skills isn't really one of the reasons, or is very low on the list, after a bunch of other stuff.

T.O.RapsJays
03-05-2012, 08:41 PM
Dude...you're smarter than this...

Unless of course this was a troll thread and you knew the obvious answer like everyone else...

Nevaeh
03-05-2012, 08:57 PM
'prime jordan' .. didn't know bryant played through 90-93 .. 'prime kobe scored 42' .. jordan was an old man at 40 .. that's all you kobe phggts have .. bringing up games against an old used up jordan :oldlol: .. you're reaching so much your arm's gonna come off .. so biased you got kobe's nuts down your throat .. it freaks you out to say jordan is better .. which you know deep down is the truth

What's really sad is that the word "prime" is in the thread title, for BOTH players no less.

:oldlol:

eliteballer
03-05-2012, 09:04 PM
when jerry stackhouse was in college, he beat jordan one on one

Nevaeh
03-05-2012, 09:12 PM
and still Highschool Kobe merked him...

Kinda like how D-Leaguer J-Lin merked Kobe to the tune of 38 straight on 58% FG shooting. Lit his old ass up so bad, Kobe's now walking around with a mask in shame. That's how you merk somebody, where they're ashamed to even show their face in public clown.


Recognize game when it's in your face!!







Next

SwooshReturns
03-05-2012, 09:39 PM
There are quite a few reasons why MJ is regarded as the better player of the two, but 1on1 skills isn't really one of the reasons, or is very low on the list, after a bunch of other stuff.
MJ is easily regarded by any fan with knowledge as one of the game's greatest scorers / one v one players of all-time.

Boy the things people will say now ...

:oldlol:

Asukal
03-05-2012, 10:10 PM
MJ is easily regarded by any fan with knowledge as one of the game's greatest scorers / one v one players of all-time.

Boy the things people will say now ...

:oldlol:

They kinda forget how prime MJ can't be stopped 1on1, they needed doubles and triples just to contain him. :cheers:

hkfosho
03-05-2012, 10:21 PM
MJ would sh!t on kobe

next

Unstop
03-05-2012, 10:22 PM
:facepalm
i hate those threads...
what do u expect? any useful informations?

zay_24
03-05-2012, 10:22 PM
DIdnt MJ get stopped by Gary Payton. The same Gary Payton who joined Kobes lakers to get carried to a ring:roll:

hkfosho
03-05-2012, 10:23 PM
DIdnt MJ get stopped by Gary Payton. The same Gary Payton who joined Kobes lakers to get carried to a ring:roll:

You mean Shaq's lakers, who couldn't win a ring?

Asukal
03-05-2012, 10:24 PM
DIdnt MJ get stopped by Gary Payton. The same Gary Payton who joined Kobes lakers to get carried to a ring:roll:

Stopped? lol! In your dreams Kobitch! Watch the 96 finals and tell me again how exactly did Payton stop him.

zay_24
03-05-2012, 10:24 PM
You mean Shaq's lakers, who couldn't win a ring?
Shaq who got traded while Kobe stayed and led the lakers to 2 more titles :lol

CLTHornets4eva
03-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Can we go one day without a new MJ vs Kobe thread?

Moratorium please MODS!

andgar923
03-05-2012, 10:32 PM
MJ wins 9 outta 10 times.

Kobe would be shooting contested jumpers all game, while Mj would be getting layups for the most part.

andgar923
03-05-2012, 10:34 PM
DIdnt MJ get stopped by Gary Payton. The same Gary Payton who joined Kobes lakers to get carried to a ring:roll:

GP calls MJ "Black Jesus"

hkfosho
03-05-2012, 10:43 PM
Shaq who got traded while Kobe stayed and led the lakers to 2 more titles :lol

he definitely led in most FGA in 6/24 with Pau carrying him to a title :lol

zay_24
03-05-2012, 10:48 PM
Payton holding jordan to 5-19 shooting with 5 turnovers:lol

NumberSix
03-05-2012, 11:00 PM
DIdnt MJ get stopped by Gary Payton. The same Gary Payton who joined Kobes lakers to get carried to a ring:roll:
No, not the "same" GP. GP 8 SEASONS later. :facepalm

bwink23
03-05-2012, 11:06 PM
Payton holding jordan to 5-19 shooting with 5 turnovers:lol


Apparently you don't know how badly Jordan tore up Payton in the early 90's...when Gary was 22-25 years old....:rolleyes:

Nevaeh
03-05-2012, 11:11 PM
No, not the "same" GP. GP 8 SEASONS later. :facepalm

Right.Kinda like 40 year old Jordan is now considered "Prime" Jordan.
:facepalm

mookie gaylock
03-05-2012, 11:21 PM
there are about 30-35 guys in the league today that would absolutely TEAR jordan apart. the league is just so much more athletic and advanced today, and its incredibly stacked and ball players are much more intelligent. i was always proud of myself that i never bought into the jordan worship. like most people here i grew up with 80s/90s NBA and i know we wanna live in the past and think jordan was great, but really looking at things from an academic perspective you can see the league is just way superior now. to answer the op, prime kobe would beat prime jordan, absolutely. no doubt.

Lebron23
03-05-2012, 11:24 PM
MJ wins 9 outta 10 times.

Kobe would be shooting contested jumpers all game, while Mj would be getting layups for the most part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6WQLvRvtjs

hkfosho
03-05-2012, 11:26 PM
there are about 30-35 guys in the league today that would absolutely TEAR jordan apart. the league is just so much more athletic and advanced today, and its incredibly stacked and ball players are much more intelligent. i was always proud of myself that i never bought into the jordan worship. like most people here i grew up with 80s/90s NBA and i know we wanna live in the past and think jordan was great, but really looking at things from an academic perspective you can see the league is just way superior now. to answer the op, prime kobe would beat prime jordan, absolutely. no doubt.

Shut the fvck up.

Go outside

bwink23
03-05-2012, 11:27 PM
there are about 30-35 guys in the league today that would absolutely TEAR jordan apart. the league is just so much more athletic and advanced today, and its incredibly stacked and ball players are much more intelligent. i was always proud of myself that i never bought into the jordan worship. like most people here i grew up with 80s/90s NBA and i know we wanna live in the past and think jordan was great, but really looking at things from an academic perspective you can see the league is just way superior now. to answer the op, prime kobe would beat prime jordan, absolutely. no doubt.



Here's a quote from Jordan's ex-trainer Tim Grover, who also has trained Kobe extensively in his career:(this is in regards to Kobe vs. Jordan 1-on-1)



Trainer Tim Grover (Attack Athletics in Chicago), who has trained Bryant, James and Michael Jordan: Hard to say. Kobe could back LeBron down, too. He's that strong. Don't put me in this spot. I'm not picking.

How about Jordan versus either man?

Grover: Oh, Michael. No question. From a physical and mental standpoint, he's the best I've ever seen. If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he'd average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.

Yanch856
03-05-2012, 11:31 PM
Come on it wouldn't even be close. Jordan >>>>>> Kobe.


Let's see comparison between the two, right now:
http://blitzsportsnetwork.com/2011/11/kobe-bryant-vs-michael-jordan-age-33-comparison/



February 17, 1996 Michael Jordan turned 33 years old.

On August 23rd, Kobe Bryant just turned 33 years old.

So let

mookie gaylock
03-06-2012, 03:37 AM
^yeah but that's comparing jordan in the talent-deficit era of the 90s (no the new york knicks of the 90s weren't good in any respect, neither were any of the wetsern conference finals opponents the bulls faced, lol@the 90s sonics, 90s jazz and 90s blazers). team defenses in the 90s were dumber, team defenses in the 00s were advanched and smarter. the proof is that team scoring avgs have gone down significantly since the 90s, even with hand checking being illegal. jordan would be lost in today's NBA. he would be slow, confused and outrunned and outgunned by today's talent. no question. listen i grew up in the 80s and 90s too but we need to stop glorfiying our childhoods and our past romanticizing the old eras of the NBA: Jordan today would be no better than gilbert arenas. thats the cold hard fact. kobe excelled in the current generation and every legitamiate sports analyst and NBA player has already settled this question: Kobe has surpassed jordan in talent and skill. Jordan did a lot for the game, no doubt and i respect him for that, but pound for pound, prime kobe would TEAR APART prime jordan. And I say that as a jordan fan. anyone who says otherwise is just a depressed 30 year old piece of shit longing fo rthe old days when he wasn't fat and stuck in his current depressing office job.

no trouble making on my part, just stating the facts that i think this messageboard needs to learn here. thats all, no offense inteded.

mookie gaylock
03-06-2012, 03:40 AM
by the way i'm a BULLS FAN and i don't care about the lakers but i'm honest enough to admit kobe has surpassed jordan in just about every measure of the game. thats just the cold hard facts. its the business of the game and i think everyone here needs to learn how the game works to understand why jordan has been overratedd. (ive been a fan for 30 years so i definitely know what i'm talking about. ive written about the NBA in local papers)

tommyhtc
03-06-2012, 05:04 AM
^yeah but that's comparing jordan in the talent-deficit era of the 90s (no the new york knicks of the 90s weren't good in any respect, neither were any of the wetsern conference finals opponents the bulls faced, lol@the 90s sonics, 90s jazz and 90s blazers). team defenses in the 90s were dumber, team defenses in the 00s were advanched and smarter. the proof is that team scoring avgs have gone down significantly since the 90s, even with hand checking being illegal. jordan would be lost in today's NBA. he would be slow, confused and outrunned and outgunned by today's talent. no question. listen i grew up in the 80s and 90s too but we need to stop glorfiying our childhoods and our past romanticizing the old eras of the NBA: Jordan today would be no better than gilbert arenas. thats the cold hard fact. kobe excelled in the current generation and every legitamiate sports analyst and NBA player has already settled this question: Kobe has surpassed jordan in talent and skill. Jordan did a lot for the game, no doubt and i respect him for that, but pound for pound, prime kobe would TEAR APART prime jordan. And I say that as a jordan fan. anyone who says otherwise is just a depressed 30 year old piece of shit longing fo rthe old days when he wasn't fat and stuck in his current depressing office job.

no trouble making on my part, just stating the facts that i think this messageboard needs to learn here. thats all, no offense inteded.
I don't really agree with the bolded statement, a Prime MJ will be on the same level as keith bogans nowadays. the league is SO much more superior right now... I mean, the game has changed so much, defenses got magically smarter, the players themselves are more intelligent and have evolved so much.

you can quote me on this, Kobe Bryant will literally average 109.89 points in the 90s and will have a FG% of about 104.2.

Lebron23
03-06-2012, 05:07 AM
I don't really agree with the bolded statement, a Prime MJ will be on the same level as keith bogans nowadays. the league is SO much more superior right now... I mean, the game has changed so much, defenses got magically smarter, the players themselves are more intelligent and have evolved so much.

you can quote me on this, Kobe Bryant will literally average 109.89 points in the 90s and will have a FG% of about 104.2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNBsg43cdTc

dude77
03-06-2012, 05:13 AM
jordan would be lost in today's NBA. he would be slow, confused and outrunned and outgunned by today's talent. no question. Jordan today would be no better than gilbert arenas. Kobe has surpassed jordan in talent and skill.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/steelermia/troll.jpg

Eric Cartman
03-06-2012, 05:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNBsg43cdTc

Meth is a hell of a drug. :lol

Lebron23
03-06-2012, 05:16 AM
I think it's gonna be a close game. MJ might beat Kobe because of his superior athleticism, and he's a much better man to man defender than Mr. Bryant.

Race to 21

MJ 21 - Kobe 19

Lebron23
03-06-2012, 05:17 AM
Meth is a hell of a drug. :lol


I hope he's just acting. That guy needs some serious help.

Asukal
03-06-2012, 05:29 AM
there are about 30-35 guys in the league today that would absolutely TEAR jordan apart. the league is just so much more athletic and advanced today, and its incredibly stacked and ball players are much more intelligent. i was always proud of myself that i never bought into the jordan worship. like most people here i grew up with 80s/90s NBA and i know we wanna live in the past and think jordan was great, but really looking at things from an academic perspective you can see the league is just way superior now. to answer the op, prime kobe would beat prime jordan, absolutely. no doubt.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

A retard has appeared!!!! :roll:

eliteballer
10-09-2021, 09:59 PM
It would be close. They've both said(seriously or not) that they could lose to the other:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVeS4dKa3E4




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqIIu_ieYAU

Kobe_Bryant
10-09-2021, 11:06 PM
ask Mike. he'll tell you who would win in a 1 on 1 between me and him

Loco 50
10-09-2021, 11:40 PM
Kobe was closer in comparison to Jerry Stackhouse than he ever was to Jordan, tbh.

lakerstekkenn
10-10-2021, 02:42 AM
Who wins? Street Ball Rules. Hand checking is allowed.

http://thefanassociation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/michael-jordan-kobe-bryant.jpg


Prime Jordan Jordan had bigger hands according to Phil this made a huge difference, I would've loved to see prime Kobe who destroyed the Spurs in 2001 that sweep vs prime Jordan before his championships, or during his first three peat.

lakerstekkenn
10-10-2021, 02:59 AM
Kobe was special and incredible himself, if anybody forgot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp7VyzrbYpM

lakerstekkenn
10-10-2021, 03:02 AM
Kobe was closer in comparison to Jerry Stackhouse than he ever was to Jordan, tbh.

Your crazy Kobe mirrored Jordan in every way.

Kobe_Bryant
10-10-2021, 03:09 AM
Kobe was closer in comparison to Jerry Stackhouse than he ever was to Jordan, tbh.


hey hey... easy buddy

Axe
10-10-2021, 07:56 AM
Kobe was closer in comparison to Jerry Stackhouse than he ever was to Jordan, tbh.
This.

eliteballer
10-10-2021, 05:04 PM
Kobe was closer in comparison to Jerry Stackhouse than he ever was to Jordan, tbh.

Put down the crack rock.