Rookie Derrick Rose vs. Current Kyrie Irving

[Lebron23]

Who do you think is the better player?

[maxhornets]

stats wise there both similar, with irving even better in some categories, but im going with rose just because rose led his team to the play-offs in his rookie year. I dont see Irving taking the cavs to the play-offs this year.

[Qwyjibo]

stats wise there both similar, with irving even better in some categories, but im going with rose just because rose led his team to the play-offs in his rookie year. I dont see Irving taking the cavs to the play-offs this year.
Doesn't that say more about their teammates and competition rather than the players themselves?

[hkfosho]

I'm going to say Kyrie Irving by a hair. But let's see if Irving can elevate his game exponentially like Rose did in his 2 & 3rd year.

[donald_trump]

id take irving. though his game is far more polished, more so than most rookies historically coming into the nba, that he won't have the drastic rise that most of the raw athletes like rose, d-wade, lebron, etc had.

so yeah, better in their first years, but just my opinion that he won't elevate as much as other great rookies of the past.

[Dengness9]

Kyrie won't get the chance, but don't forget that Rookie Rose dropped 36 and 11 in his first playoff game ever. He saved his best performance for last.

[Loneshot]

Kyrie's game looks much nicer and more polished than Rookie Rose and even current Rose in many areas, but I feel that Kyrie's ceiling isn't so high (seems to have durability issues for a player that hasn't played much). So I'd take Rose if i'm looking towards the future.

Also, i don't feel the baby bulls had much over the current Cavs. Tyrus was garbage, there was almost no back-up PG (Hinrich/Gordon at the 2), and Gordon is/was terribly overrated. He did much more harm than good and i'd like to think the Bulls won despite of him, not because of him.

[CardiacKemba]

id take irving. though his game is far more polished, more so than most rookies historically coming into the nba, that he won't have the drastic rise that most of the raw athletes like rose, d-wade, lebron, etc had.

so yeah, better in their first years, but just my opinion that he won't elevate as much as other great rookies of the past.

Irving may look polished, but let's not forget he barely played any college ball, so he SHOULD improve vastly over the next 2/3 years with experience. Whether he has the epic improvement that Rose had is the huge question. Rose had the drive inside him like few do.

[Glide2keva]

Looks at thread title, then looks at OP. Leaves thread.

[Bigsmoke]

Rookie Rose.

easy

[Rose]

Am I the only one remembering that pre-varejao getting injured the Cavs WERE the eighth seed?

[lilgodfather1]

Kyrie was drafted to the second worst team in the leauge. Rose was drafted to the 9th worst team in the league and won 33 games, the Cavs won 19. Kyrie had the Cavs into the playoffs until an injury to Andy.

Kyrie is a better rook, I won't say he will be the best PG in the league in 3 years like Rose is (imo), but he has potential to do so.

[Bigsmoke]

Kyrie was drafted to the second worst team in the leauge. Rose was drafted to the 9th worst team in the league and won 33 games, the Cavs won 19. Kyrie had the Cavs into the playoffs until an injury to Andy.

Kyrie is a better rook, I won't say he will be the best PG in the league in 3 years like Rose is (imo), but he has potential to do so.

Byron Scott is arguably the best coach to have for young PGs in the game.

Vinny del negro? :no:

[lilgodfather1]

Byron Scott is arguably the best coach to have for young PGs in the game.

Vinny del negro? :no:
I nevr said Scott wasn't a good PG coach (look at the PG's he has had in his career...), but the team around Kyrie is putrid.

[scm5]

This thread inspired me to start a thread comparing Steph Curry and Kyrie Irving who also put up similar stats in their rookie seasons as well.

To me, Kyrie is a mix of Steph Curry and DRose. He's quick like Rose, but he shoots like Curry. He's not as quick as Rose and not as good a shooter as Curry, but he's gonna be a hell of a player since he's a combination of both.

I like Curry's style more because he's a smart player that gets it done without the athleticism of Rose/Irving. He's flashy in that he has some great moves, but he's not going to wow you with amazingly athletic plays like Rose/Kyrie.

If I were to choose between Rose and Irving ONLY based on their rookie season stats, I would definitely choose Irving because he seems like more of a complete player.

Knowing what I know now, Rose has grown up to become an amazing leader and has a great mentality towards the game. He's hard working and is now a much improved 3 point shooter while being just about the fastest player in the game. Rose would be my choice right now, it's not guaranteed Irving will be anywhere as good as Rose in the future.

I do think though, if given the chance, Steph Curry would be right up there amongst the top 5 PG's in the league. Maybe not at Rose's level, but up there. I want Monta Ellis to be traded so badly.

[sipitri]

stats wise there both similar, with irving even better in some categories, but im going with rose just because rose led his team to the play-offs in his rookie year. I dont see Irving taking the cavs to the play-offs this year.

9 Luol Deng
90 Drew Gooden
7 Ben Gordon
34 Aaron Gray
12 Kirk Hinrich
32 Larry Hughes
11 Lindsey Hunter
54 Linton Johnson
52 Brad Miller
35 Demetris Nichols
13 Joakim Noah
5 Andres Nocioni
5 Anthony Roberson
1 Derrick Rose
15 John Salmons
2 Thabo Sefolosha
15 Cedric Simmons
2 Tim Thomas
24 Tyrus Thomas


Now take a look at the current cavs rooster

[ballinhun8]

9 Luol Deng
90 Drew Gooden
7 Ben Gordon
34 Aaron Gray
12 Kirk Hinrich
32 Larry Hughes
11 Lindsey Hunter
54 Linton Johnson
52 Brad Miller
35 Demetris Nichols
13 Joakim Noah
5 Andres Nocioni
5 Anthony Roberson
1 Derrick Rose
15 John Salmons
2 Thabo Sefolosha
15 Cedric Simmons
2 Tim Thomas
24 Tyrus Thomas


Now take a look at the current cavs rooster



You do know some of those guys were traded for each other, right???


I know you do, of course, because no team can have 20 players. And Deng wasn't there in the second half of the season.


A lineup of Rose/BG/Salmons/Thomas/Noah was totally dependant on the backcourt for its scoring.


And a guy like Noah wasnt then what he is now.

[brandonislegend]

Rookie Rose.

easy

:facepalm

[Glide2keva]

:facepalm
I mean seriously, we all know rookie rose sucked. He only was the Rookie of the Year and had the best playoff debut in NBA history only matched by KAJ.

Clearly Irving is better than Rose, even now.

[RRR3]

I mean seriously, we all know rookie rose sucked. He only was the Rookie of the Year and had the best playoff debut in NBA history only matched by KAJ.

Clearly Irving is better than Rose, even now.
http://images.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/02/catgif12.gif

Not even best debut game in playoffs by a PG of that decade. CP3, the previous season, in fact, had 35 pts on 15-23 shooting, 10 assists, 4 steals and a block in his first ever playoff game. He followed that up with 32 points on 10-16 shooting, 5 rebounds, 17 assists, and 3 steals. :bowdown:

[Glide2keva]

http://images.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/02/catgif12.gif

Not even best debut game in playoffs by a PG of that decade. CP3, the previous season, in fact, had 35 pts on 15-23 shooting, 10 assists, 4 steals and a block in his first ever playoff game. He followed that up with 32 points on 10-16 shooting, 5 rebounds, 17 assists, and 3 steals. :bowdown:
Derrick Rose had 36 and 11 and that tied the record for a rookie playoff debut, a record held only by Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Please learn what you're talking about.

Well would you look at this?

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128774

[Pharcyde]

Derrick Rose had 36 and 11 and that tied the record for a rookie playoff debut, a record held only by Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Please learn what you're talking about.

Well would you look at this?

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128774

This. AND that was CP3's 3rd year in the leage compared to Derrick Rose's first and he played against one of the best D's in the league.

[nitric0]

The guy who dropped 36/11 in his first playoff game

[LBJMVP]

i dont know... i remember watching rose play against boston in his playoff debut and told my dad that rose would be the best point guard in the league in a couple years.

i think they are about equal... i'm a cleveland fan so i'll kyrie :D

[sipitri]

You do know some of those guys were traded for each other, right???


I know you do, of course, because no team can have 20 players. And Deng wasn't there in the second half of the season.


A lineup of Rose/BG/Salmons/Thomas/Noah was totally dependant on the backcourt for its scoring.


And a guy like Noah wasnt then what he is now.
Nono I really thought Salmons and Simmons played with the same number!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chicago+bulls+2008+roster

There you go, you can see everyone's stats. Happy now?

And now let's take a look at the almighty cavaliers roster:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2012.html

My goodness if they don't reach the playoffs it must be Irving's fault!

I'm not saying Rose sucks, he's freaking good but he had a decent team. Irving has an injured Varejao and Antawn Jamison, come on..

[Dengness9]

http://images.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/02/catgif12.gif

Not even best debut game in playoffs by a PG of that decade. CP3, the previous season, in fact, had 35 pts on 15-23 shooting, 10 assists, 4 steals and a block in his first ever playoff game. He followed that up with 32 points on 10-16 shooting, 5 rebounds, 17 assists, and 3 steals. :bowdown:

a Heat homer trying to twist the facts....GO FIGURE!

You expose yourself as a fool everytime you post.

It's actually funny you forgot to mention CP3 was in his 3rd year.

[Glide2keva]

This. AND that was CP3's 3rd year in the leage compared to Derrick Rose's first and he played against one of the best D's in the league.
Let's not let a thing like facts get in the way of a good argument.

[Glide2keva]

a Heat homer trying to twist the facts....GO FIGURE!

You expose yourself as a fool everytime you post.

It's actually funny you forgot to mention CP3 was in his 3rd year.
Yeah, details are the devil. Trying to compare a third year player that has nothing to do with this thread with a rookie.

Gotta love Heat trolls

[Lebron23]

Rookie Kyrie Irving is the better player. 18.5 pg on 46.9 FG%, 5.4 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.1 spg, 0.4 bpg. Irving will be the 2nd youngest NBA Rookie of the Year after LeBron James.

[Alamo]

Rookie Kyrie Irving is the better player. 18.5 pg on 46.9 FG%, 5.4 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.1 spg, 0.4 bpg. Irving will be the 2nd youngest NBA Rookie of the Year after LeBron James.

Their stats are pretty similar. 16.5 ppg on 47.5 FG% 6.3 apg, 3.9 pg 0.8 stl 0.2 bpg for Derrick Rose

[nathanjizzle]

ill take rookie derrick rose. you guys know nothing about rookie derrick rose. maybe you guys forgot his preseason game against dallas his rookie year. yea thats what i thought, you guys dont know anything about that or his rookie season. and that was one of many highlights his rookie year.

[chips93]

ill take rookie derrick rose. you guys know nothing about rookie derrick rose. maybe you guys forgot his preseason game against dallas his rookie year. yea thats what i thought, you guys dont know anything about that or his rookie season. and that was one of many highlights his rookie year.

:biggums:

of course we dont know the minor details of rose's rookie year like bulls fans will, just as regular fans wont know about the minor details of irving's rookie year, like cavs fans will

faulty argument

[nathanjizzle]

Their stats are pretty similar. 16.5 ppg on 47.5 FG% 6.3 apg, 3.9 pg 0.8 stl 0.2 bpg for Derrick Rose

roses stats are clearly better. especially when rose had better teammates around him.

[fsvr54]

Irving, without a doubt

[Tenchi Ryu]

Where Rookie Rose really shined was the post-season. I'd definitely take that Rose over Irving. The way he and Rondo was going at it was godly stuff to watch.

[nathanjizzle]

:biggums:

of course we dont know the minor details of rose's rookie year like bulls fans will, just as regular fans wont know about the minor details of irving's rookie year, like cavs fans will

faulty argument

so nobodys opinion here matters than. but also were debating about 1 players current from 1 players past. people will tend to always believe the current player is better since no one remembers the other players past.

[chips93]

so nobodys opinion here matters than.

according to you that is, if these minor details stop any non-bulls fan from judging rose's rookie season, like you originally posted.


but also were debating about 1 players current from 1 players past. people will tend to always believe the current player is better since no one remembers the other players past.

im not sure its as simple as that

some players get overrated as time goes on, some underrated

you cant just make a blanket statement about it like that.

[alwaysunny]

:biggums:

of course we dont know the minor details of rose's rookie year like bulls fans will, just as regular fans wont know about the minor details of irving's rookie year, like cavs fans will

faulty argument

That preseason game highlight was actually a pretty big deal. It was one of the first glimpse of the full game we got to see from him, which he went off for 30. Initially I predicted him to be worse than Beasley and Mayo, especially early in their career, but that game changed my whole perspective on Rose, even though it was just a preseason highlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyysMKEU58

[Lebron23]

It looks like Irving might surpass Rose next season. The NBA needs to market KI as the next best PG in the Eastern Conference.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm waiting for someone to step up and make a really great rookie year highlight video of Kyrie (kblaze?). There are some decent ones out there, but none that truly captures his all-around game.

Obviously, his dead-eye shooting and ability to finish around the basket are two facets of his game that are widely known. However, I think his ability to change directions while maintaining his speed and balance is what bodes well for his continual improvement over the next several years... LIKE THIS MOVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUDpcNfJEmM#t=1m0).

I also truly believe that, in time, he will be known as having the best handles in the NBA.

[LBJMVP]

kyries top ten plays
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvqKEJ8ESsE

kryies rookie season mix (only up till march 17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QAnIhtbkG0&feature=related

i like how al jefferson gives him a pat on the butt of the incredible layup
also there is a nice scene where he makes shumpert (i think) fall down.

[RedBlackAttack]

kyries top ten plays
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvqKEJ8ESsE

kryies rookie season mix (only up till march 17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvqKEJ8ESsE

i like how al jefferson gives him a pat on the butt of the incredible layup
also there is a nice scene where he makes shumpert (i think) fall down.
Same video in both links.

I've seen all of the mixes. None are all that great.

[LBJMVP]

Same video in both links.

I've seen all of the mixes. None are all that great.


i edited it.

[RedBlackAttack]

This one isn't too bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4FQG9FJbv0

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kyle Irving is just a mediocre passer, wont be a great player. Rose is not as great as CP3 at playmaking but hes still way above average.

[Pointguard]

Not a high flyer or very fluid just yet, but I think he's going to be a top 3 point guard... pretty soon.

[Whoah10115]

As a rookie, Kyrie missed more time. But when healthy, Kyrie looked better in his rookie year.

[CavaliersFTW]

Kyle Irving is just a mediocre passer, wont be a great player. Rose is not as great as CP3 at playmaking but hes still way above average.
:facepalm

[Lebron23]

Kyle Irving is just a mediocre passer, wont be a great player. Rose is not as great as CP3 at playmaking but hes still way above average.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xHkB4QnCEYo/Te9-0bzBIRI/AAAAAAAABOE/G0Fe2kKrC5I/s1600/0008.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

As a rookie, Kyrie missed more time. But when healthy, Kyrie looked better in his rookie year.
To be fair, Rose didn't have to play his rookie year in this ridiculously condensed season. Just about every player in the league sat out for a stint at some point. Throw in the fact that the Cavs were tanking at the end of the year and Rose was actually drafted onto a playoff-ready team...

Not sure you can fault the guy for missing some time.


Not a high flyer or very fluid just yet, but I think he's going to be a top 3 point guard... pretty soon.
Certainly not a high flier, but not fluid? Totally disagree with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUDpcNfJEmM#t=1m0

[donald_trump]

Kyle Irving is just a mediocre passer, wont be a great player. Rose is not as great as CP3 at playmaking but hes still way above average.

interesting, because hes already a great player.

[Scoooter]

I only saw Irving play a handful of times, but the passing and playmaking didn't look to be there for me.

Everything else looked stellar though. I was especially impressed with how he moves with the ball. Excellent dribbler, very efficient. Nice shot too.

[RedBlackAttack]

I only saw Irving play a handful of times, but the passing and playmaking didn't look to be there for me.

Everything else looked stellar though. I was especially impressed with how he moves with the ball. Excellent dribbler, very efficient. Nice shot too.
His playmaking was starting to come on in late February and into March before his shoulder injury. I think he averaged 7 assists per game in March, which is pretty impressive considering the most offensively dangerous teammates he had around him during that span were Jamison and Alonzo Gee (and a big drop off after that).

It definitely took him some time, though. I think his playmaking will continue to improve as he gets some offensively competent teammates around him and doesn't have to basically gift wrap them a layup to create a score.

This is a bit of a window into the kind of plays he was making prior to the injury...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dLWmi7GobA (notice that Hollins barely made this play... Almost blew the dunk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mLp1FsILLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXkhggDuIbE


Again... Work in progress, but so is the talent around him on the roster.

[Nashty]

Current Kyrie Irvnig > Current Derrick Rose :rockon: :pimp:

[CavaliersFTW]

Kyrie Irving right now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hospitalized Rose

[Pointguard]

Certainly not a high flier, but not fluid? Totally disagree with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUDpcNfJEmM#t=1m0
If you see a lot of Derrick Rose, Kyrie isn't fluid but I don't think anybody, save D Wade and Kobe still look fluid next to D Rose. I like that he studying Rose as well. He totally got that move you provided out of the Derrick Rose playbook, and D Rose elevated it his out of Tony Parker's playbook. No biggie if a player isn't fluid as a rookie as many times with age you get it naturally - plus it isn't a necessary quality either.

Kyrie is fast becoming one of my favorite players.

[LBJMVP]

His playmaking starting to come on in late February and into March before his shoulder injury. I think he averaged 7 assists per game in March, which is pretty impressive considering the most offensively dangerous teammates he had around him during that span were Jamison and Alonzo Gee (and a big drop off after that).

It definitely took him some time, though. I think his playmaking will continue to improve as he gets some offensively competent teammates around him and doesn't have to basically gift wrap them a layup to create a score.

This is a bit of a window into the kind of plays he was making prior to the injury...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dLWmi7GobA (notice that Hollins barely made this play... Almost blew the dunk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mLp1FsILLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXkhggDuIbE


Again... Work in progress, but so is the talent around him on the roster.


hollins almost f*cked up that pass to :lol

i can't wait till next year. i so excited of the improvements we could see.