KU will choke again early in March Madness this year...

[Kiddlovesnets]

Just like they always did against mid-major teams like Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa and VCU. It would be a shame if the committees do pick Kansas to be a top seed, since their only contribution as a No.1 seed is to make sure not all four top seeds will advance to the final four. It happened before in 2008, but somewhat boring without underdogs? Bill Self is still the average coach he always was. People can change but something's never gonna change, with or without Mario Chalmers saving his ass in 2008.

[JMT]

Usually have to go to the NBA threads to find a post this pointless.

[KG215]

Just.....wow. There's one particular part of that post that may be the dumbest thing I've read on this board. Bill Self is an excellent coach. Do you realize how much Kansas has overachieved this year? Most had them tabbed as a bottom half top 25 team, if not worse. They lost a ton from last year and no one knew Thomas Robinson would be this good. I remember watching Kansas in the Maui Invitational and thinking they weren't even a top 25 team. Jeff Withey wasn't very good at the time and Tyshawn Taylor was a turnover machine. Now withy has turned out t be a very good big man, and Taylor may be the best scoring PG in the nation. The talent level on this Kansas team is a step or two below what they normally have, yet Self coached them to the regular season Big 12 championship.

Remember the year after they won the national championship and they lost their top four scorers and all that really returned was Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich? No one expected Kansas to do much yet they still spent most of the season ranked in the top 5-10 and made the Sweet 16. Bill Self is far from an average coach, and I'd go as far as saying he might be the best coach in the nation, and he's top 3-5 at the very least.

I will kind of give you the whole choking in March thing but I wouldn't see it as choking this year. This team simply doesn't have the horses Kansas teams of the past had.

[JMT]

Just.....wow. There's one particular part of that post that may be the dumbest thing I've read on this board. Bill Self is an excellent coach. Do you realize how much Kansas has overachieved this year? Most had them tabbed as a bottom half top 25 team, if not worse. They lost a ton from last year and no one knew Thomas Robinson would be this good. I remember watching Kansas in the Maui Invitational and thinking they weren't even a top 25 team. Jeff Withey wasn't very good at the time and Tyshawn Taylor was a turnover machine. Now withy has turned out t be a very good big man, and Taylor may be the best scoring PG in the nation. The talent level on this Kansas team is a step or two below what they normally have, yet Self coached them to the regular season Big 12 championship.

Remember the year after they won the national championship and they lost their top four scorers and all that really returned was Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich? No one expected Kansas to do much yet they still spent most of the season ranked in the top 5-10 and made the Sweet 16. Bill Self is far from an average coach, and I'd go as far as saying he might be the best coach in the nation, and he's top 3-5 at the very least.

I will kind of give you the whole choking in March thing but I wouldn't see it as choking this year. This team simply doesn't have the horses Kansas teams of the past have ha.

I don't even give him that. One team cuts down the net each year. To say KU or anyone else "choked" because they didn't win a one-and-done tournament is among the most foolish things ever said.

Have there been years when they might have done better? Sure. Just like every other team in that pantheon of programs. If you're UNC, Kentucky, Duke, KU, MSU, etc there's one spot you expect to play for each year: the title.

Always wanted to sit down with people who use the term "choking" and review their own life, successes and failures. See how many of them they'd categorize as having been "chokes".

[KG215]

I don't even give him that. One team cuts down the net each year. To say KU or anyone else "choked" because they didn't win a one-and-done tournament is among the most foolish things ever said.

Have there been years when they might have done better? Sure. Just like every other team in that pantheon of programs. If you're UNC, Kentucky, Duke, KU, MSU, etc there's one spot you expect to play for each year: the title.

Always wanted to sit down with people who use the term "choking" and review their own life, successes and failures. See how many of them they'd categorize as having been "chokes".

I shouldn't have even said choke, because I agree. The NCAA tournament is more or less a crap-shoot. There have plenty of instances where the best or even second best team that season didn't win the national championship. Bill Self is an outstanding coach and his only "blemish" MIGHT be that he has had highly touted teams get bounced a round or two earlier than they probably should have by less talented teams.

[JMT]

I shouldn't have even said choke, because I agree. The NCAA tournament is more or less a crap-shoot. There have plenty of instances where the best or even second best team that season didn't win the national championship. Bill Self is an outstanding coach and his only "blemish" MIGHT be that he has had highly touted teams get bounced a round or two earlier than they probably should have by less talented teams.

If I heard the stat correctly, and I think I did, Self's teams have won more Big 12 titles than they've lost home games. Amazing.

[KG215]

If I heard the stat correctly, and I think I did, Self's teams have won more Big 12 titles than they've lost home games. Amazing.

Yep, fact is, even in seasons where Kansas was supposed to be "down" and someone else like Baylor, Kansas State, Texas, or Missouri were supposed to win the Big 12, Kansas still ended up being crowned conference champ at the end of the season.

I personally don't know if there's a coach in the nation I'd trade Roy Williams for straight-up but, gun to my head, the only one that I would give heavy consideration to is Bill Self.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Bill Self is an excellent coach. Do you realize how much Kansas has overachieved this year?
Yeah hes such an excellent coach, he led his teams to lose to the likes of Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa and VCU. Other than the VCU team last year the rest aint even good to begin with.



The talent level on this Kansas team is a step or two below what they normally have, yet Self coached them to the regular season Big 12 championship.
See the point? Regular season, its regular season. Flip Saunders is a great regular season coach with T-Wolves and Pistons, so hes a good NBA coach overall? Regular season success means nothing if you lose early in March Madness. Are you trying to convince me that it was all the players fault that KU choked in NCAA tournaments? Maybe if this happened one or two years, but come on its been the story since Bill Self was named head coach(minus 2008, when that team was just too stacked to lose).


I don't even give him that. One team cuts down the net each year. To say KU or anyone else "choked" because they didn't win a one-and-done tournament is among the most foolish things ever said.

Sure teams like UNC, UK and Duke do not win all the time either, but elaborate me on how they lose to mid-major teams like half of the time? It is not your fault to lose in one and done tournament once to underdogs, but repeatedly?

[KG215]

Arguing with you is pointless because you've proved in numerous other threads that you're either really stupid or just at troll.

Bill Self is easily one of the five best coaches in the country, and I have him in my top three.

And you do understand the NCAA tournament is one and done, right? It's not best of five or seven like the NBA, so comparing Self's postseason failures to coaches of the NBA is comparing apples to oranges. Do you honestly think VCU or Northern Iowa would have beaten those Kansas teams in a best of 5 series?

And go back and study the last 10-15 NCAA seasons. There are plenty of instances where a team was considered as the best or one of the best all season long didn't win the NCAA tournament. When you get into a one and done tournament format involving 64+ teams and 6 rounds, then there is going to be a lot of times where one of the best teams wins it.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Arguing with you is pointless because you've proved in numerous other threads that you're either really stupid or just at troll.

Bill Self is easily one of the five best coaches in the country, and I have him in my top three.

And you do understand the NCAA tournament is one and done, right? It's not best of five or seven like the NBA, so comparing Self's postseason failures to coaches of the NBA is comparing apples to oranges. Do you honestly think VCU or Northern Iowa would have beaten those Kansas teams in a best of 5 series?

And go back and study the last 10-15 NCAA seasons. There are plenty of instances where a team was considered as the best or one of the best all season long didn't win the NCAA tournament. When you get into a one and done tournament format involving 64+ teams and 6 rounds, then there is going to be a lot of times where one of the best teams wins it.

I think you've completely misunderstood the point, my friend. I am not saying Bill Self sucks as a coach because he couldnt win NCAA titles, its about the tendency to lose against mid-major teams. Also its not about how they fell against one mid-major team like VCU, its about the fact that they do it about half of the time or more. Name me another program that does the same thing over and over again? Vandy, Wake Forest, Stanford... Well you dont suppose these schools have good coaches, do you?

[Balla_Status]

Just like they always did against mid-major teams like Bucknell, Northern Iowa and VCU. It would be a shame if the committees do pick Kansas to be a top seed, since their only contribution as a No.1 seed is to make sure not all four top seeds will advance to the final four. It happened before in 2008, but somewhat boring without underdogs? Bill Self is still the average coach he always was. People can change but something's never gonna change, with or without Mario Chalmers saving his ass in 2008.

8 straight Big 12 titles say otherwise

[KG215]

I think you've completely misunderstood the point, my friend. I am not saying Bill Self sucks as a coach because he couldnt win NCAA titles, its about the tendency to lose against mid-major teams. Also its not about how they fell against one mid-major team like VCU, its about the fact that they do it about half of the time or more. Name me another program that does the same thing over and over again? Vandy, Wake Forest, Stanford... Well you dont suppose these schools have good coaches, do you?

How about you look at the immense amount of regular season success hes enjoyed along with the one national championship, instead of focusing on single-elimination tournament games where a number of small things can add up to an upset. Yes, for whatever reason, Bill self coached Kansas teams have seemed to be upset by mid-majors more often than the other elite programs in the country; that does not make Bill Self a bad coach.

[chips93]

Just like they always did against mid-major teams like Bucknell, Northern Iowa and VCU. It would be a shame if the committees do pick Kansas to be a top seed, since their only contribution as a No.1 seed is to make sure not all four top seeds will advance to the final four. It happened before in 2008, but somewhat boring without underdogs? Bill Self is still the average coach he always was. People can change but something's never gonna change, with or without Mario Chalmers saving his ass in 2008.

obviously lots of dumb things could be pointed out, but bolded made me really think

save self's ass from what? second place in the tournament? like thats a bad performance?

:rolleyes:

[Kiddlovesnets]

How about you look at the immense amount of regular season success hes enjoyed along with the one national championship, instead of focusing on single-elimination tournament games where a number of small things can add up to an upset. Yes, for whatever reason, Bill self coached Kansas teams have seemed to be upset by mid-majors more often than the other elite programs in the country; that does not make Bill Self a bad coach.

Regular season success... You must seriously believe Flip Saunders is a great NBA coach then.
:facepalm

[KG215]

Regular season success... You must seriously believe Flip Saunders is a great NBA coach then.
:facepalm

I'll try and make this as simple as possible since it went over your head the first time...Comparing an NBA coach and college coach in terms of their postseason success is like comparing apples and oranges. NBA teams get the benefit of a best-of-seven series. The NCAA tournament is single elimination.

Since you seemed so focus on this, do you think VCU, Northern Iowa, etc. would have beaten those Kansas teams in a best of 3/5/7 series?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Since you seemed so focus on this, do you think VCU, Northern Iowa, etc. would have beaten those Kansas teams in a best of 3/5/7 series?

Do you think the likes of VCU, Northern Iowa, Bradley and Bucknell could defeat teams like UNC, UK, UConn repeatedly as underdogs? Lets face it, you lose once or twice to mid-major league teams, it is coincidence and sometimes bad luck. But I am sorry, its 4 times in 8 years for Bill Self already and I wont be surprised if it happens again.

In my current mock bracket I have KU lose to the 5th seed in its bracket, seems pretty good for them already in Sweet 16. If more upset-minded teams are placed as 8th or 9th seed, they may go home as early as in 2nd round like they did to Northern Iowa.

[JMT]

Do you think the likes of VCU, Northern Iowa, Bradley and Bucknell could defeat teams like UNC, UK, UConn repeatedly as underdogs? Lets face it, you lose once or twice to mid-major league teams, it is coincidence and sometimes bad luck. But I am sorry, its 4 times in 8 years for Bill Self already and I wont be surprised if it happens again.



Every #1 and virtually every 2 seed that loses does so to underdogs. You're just too hung up on the mid-major label.

In the current landscape of college basketball, where a mid-major has been in the title game each of the last two years, with another in last year's Final Four, the term mid-major means little come tournament time. Those "middies" are loaded with experienced players, comfortable within a system and more physically developed than the big time recruits at larger schools.

It's not football, where weekly attrition due to injury exposes the difference in depth between programs. It's a one-and-done scenario, in the sport most affected by the performance of a single player.

[skan72]

Just like they always did against mid-major teams like Bucknell, Northern Iowa and VCU. It would be a shame if the committees do pick Kansas to be a top seed, since their only contribution as a No.1 seed is to make sure not all four top seeds will advance to the final four. It happened before in 2008, but somewhat boring without underdogs? Bill Self is still the average coach he always was. People can change but something's never gonna change, with or without Mario Chalmers saving his ass in 2008.

Sorry, saving his ass? Come again? You mean when they were already in the National title game? Is that the ass aid that Mario Chalmers provided to Bill Self? They were already in the fkn NC game when that happened! Yeah, they've flamed out early every other year, but don't tell me Chalmers saved Self's ass that year. Maybe Memphis should hit FT's. Also, Kansas dominated UNC, the same UNC who would win a year later, in the Final Four that year.

[Kiddlovesnets]

http://cdn2.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/ChokingPoster.jpg

This image is so epic, lol. And it is evident that many people believe that Mario Chalmers was the only one who managed to save Bill Self from choking before.

[KG215]

Then those same people are as dumb as you. Apparently you have no idea how tough it is for a coach and his team to win five games in a row to just make the championship game, never mind six in a row to win a championship. Yes, Mario Chalmers hit a clutch shot in the end to win the game but, had Chalmers missed, it wouldn't have been a "choke-job" if Kansas had lost to Memphis.

Bill Self's tournament track-record isn't the best. Since he's been at Kansas he's had some higher seeded teams get upset. But it's also unfair to completely ignore that, on several occasions, those teams overachieved in the regular season based on preseason expectations. This season might have been Self's best coaching job yet.

I'm defending Self and Kansas but, since they appear to be the biggest threat to UNC before the Final Four, I can honestly say I will be rooting for and hoping that there's another mid-major or lower seeded team that has an upset in them when they face Kansas in the first three rounds.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

I have Kansas getting upset by Detroit

[JMT]

I have Kansas getting upset by Detroit

At least you have the balls to call it, unlike the OP who hides behind "many people on the mesage board think..."

He talks nonsense, but his boldest prediction so far is "if more upset minded teams are placed as 8/9 seeds (as if teams decide whether to be upset minded or not) they may go home as early as the second round..."

[Kiddlovesnets]

He talks nonsense, but his boldest prediction so far is "if more upset minded teams are placed as 8/9 seeds (as if teams decide whether to be upset minded or not) they may go home as early as the second round..."

Well that was the prediction for KU if they landed top seed. Looks like they did not, so apparently you cant see an 8/9 seed upsetting them. But being a 2 seed makes it even more intriguing since they now have a chance to lose in 1st round, instead of having a guaranteed win as top seed against no.16. History tells us that no.15 seeds can upset no.2's, I see such potential in Detroit too.

[JMT]

Then those same people are as dumb as you. Apparently you have no idea how tough it is for a coach and his team to win five games in a row to just make the championship game, never mind six in a row to win a championship. Yes, Mario Chalmers hit a clutch shot in the end to win the game but, had Chalmers missed, it wouldn't have been a "choke-job" if Kansas had lost to Memphis.

Bill Self's tournament track-record isn't the best. Since he's been at Kansas he's had some higher seeded teams get upset. But it's also unfair to completely ignore that, on several occasions, those teams overachieved in the regular season based on preseason expectations. This season might have been Self's best coaching job yet.

I'm defending Self and Kansas but, since they appear to be the biggest threat to UNC before the Final Four, I can honestly say I will be rooting for and hoping that there's another mid-major or lower seeded team that has an upset in them when they face Kansas in the first three rounds.

Funny thing is I could care less about KU as well. Only Big 12 ties I've ever had were Ok State, and those are long gone. Just amazed at the idiocy of people. Every 1 or 2, short of the Final 4, are losing to an underdog. VCU went to the Final 4, but apparently it was only Kansas that choked. Butler got to two staight finals but teams didn't "choke" to get them there.

Sad thing is if KU loses...and odds are they will...to a lower ranked team, people will crow like they knew something. Even worse, Detroit is the 15 that I felt had the best chance at an upset regardless of opponent. Legit size with two 6'10" guys, took most of their losses early in the season when they were missing key players, a very athletic wing who can score. When KU has struggled, it's been due to Withey not showing up. So I could be arguing against myself. But I'll trust KU's frontline and overall shooting.

[(e)]

KU will make the Elite 8

[JMT]

Well that was the prediction for KU if they landed top seed. Looks like they did not, so apparently you cant see an 8/9 seed upsetting them. But being a 2 seed makes it even more intriguing since they now have a chance to lose in 1st round, instead of having a guaranteed win as top seed against no.16. History tells us that no.15 seeds can upset no.2's, I see such potential in Detroit too.

So you're picking Detroit to win, right?

[Goliath Uterus]

Yeah hes such an excellent coach

Yes, he is. Best coach in the nation actually. 8 straight regular season titles, 144-7 at home (best in NCAA btw), Over the last five seasons Self's KU teams won 165 games, an average of 33.0 wins a year for the best 5 year record of any Men's Basketball coach in Division 1 history, he's one of the best recruiters in the game as well.... And only at Kansas could 3 Elite 8's, a Sweet 16, and a natl. championship be considered a "failure".

[Goliath Uterus]

Oh and your bound to lose to some scrubs when you make the tourney every year (which not even UK, Duke, or UNC do). Shit happens, the big dance is a complete crap shoot.

[JMT]

Yes, he is. Best coach in the nation actually. 8 straight regular season titles, 144-7 at home (best in NCAA btw), Over the last five seasons Self's KU teams won 165 games, an average of 33.0 wins a year for the best 5 year record of any Men's Basketball coach in Division 1 history, he's one of the best recruiters in the game as well.... And only at Kansas could 3 Elite 8's, a Sweet 16, and a natl. championship be considered a "failure".

Not even at Kansas. Just in the childlike mindset of the OP...and whatever blog post he read that said Kansas "chokes".

It's only the truly clueless that think there's any difference between the Big 6 conferences and the best of all the rest when it comes to the tournament. He's blasting them for losing to a team that went to the Final Four.:roll:

[Goliath Uterus]

It's only the truly clueless that think there's any difference between the Big 6 conferences and the best of all the rest when it comes to the tournament. He's blasting them for losing to a team that went to the Final Four.:roll:

Exactly. While other big schools haven't lost to as many mid majors in the tourney, they've lost to teams that are on the same level as those mid majors.

[KG215]

We're way past the day and age of mid-majors and majors. The "mid-majors" that make the tournament and win a game or two (at least) are filled with experienced seniors and juniors who have developed great chemistry over three or four seasons and know their coach's system inside and out. In contrast, we're seeing less experienced teams at a lot of the elite programs since their best talent comes and stays only one or two seasons. Yes, 7-8 times out of 10 the gap in talent, size, and athleticism for the elite programs is going to prevail, even in a one-game scenario, but it should be no surprise when a team chock-full of experienced and seasoned seniors and juniors "upsets" a team like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc. who are playing a lot of sophomores, freshmen, and juniors who sat on the bench most of their freshman and sophomore years.

[JMT]

We're way past the day and age of mid-majors and majors. The "mid-majors" that make the tournament and win a game or two (at least) are filled with experienced seniors and juniors who have developed great chemistry over three or four seasons and know their coach's system inside and out. In contrast, we're seeing less experienced teams at a lot of the elite programs since their best talent comes and stays only one or two seasons. Yes, 7-8 times out of 10 the gap in talent, size, and athleticism for the elite programs is going to prevail, even in a one-game scenario, but it should be no surprise when a team chock-full of experienced and seasoned seniors and juniors "upsets" a team like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc. who are playing a lot of sophomores, freshmen, and juniors who sat on the bench most of their freshman and sophomore years.

True. But that requires a much deeper thought process than pointing and screaming "CHOKERS! CHOKERS!"

And notice OP has still not committed to picking Detroit.

[Kiddlovesnets]

We're way past the day and age of mid-majors and majors. The "mid-majors" that make the tournament and win a game or two (at least) are filled with experienced seniors and juniors who have developed great chemistry over three or four seasons and know their coach's system inside and out. In contrast, we're seeing less experienced teams at a lot of the elite programs since their best talent comes and stays only one or two seasons. Yes, 7-8 times out of 10 the gap in talent, size, and athleticism for the elite programs is going to prevail, even in a one-game scenario, but it should be no surprise when a team chock-full of experienced and seasoned seniors and juniors "upsets" a team like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, etc. who are playing a lot of sophomores, freshmen, and juniors who sat on the bench most of their freshman and sophomore years.

Maybe, but there are differences even among Mid-Major teams. Among the four choking jobs Bill Self completed, the only excusable loss was the one against VCU last year because they were actually somewhat of a good team. Do not expect me to believe that teams like Bucknell were even supposed to win against any top teams.

[JMT]

Maybe, but there are differences even among Mid-Major teams. Among the four choking jobs Bill Self completed, the only excusable loss was the one against VCU last year because they were actually somewhat of a good team. Do not expect me to believe that teams like Bucknell were even supposed to win against any top teams.

Bucknell came in as an upset darling. They were among the better shooting teams in the country, playing 4-5 seniors, 3 of whom accounted for a lions share of the teams points. They also had a solid big man with legitimate size, one of the things that typically eludes that type of program.

They went on to beat much higher seeded Arkansas the next season in a first round game.

KU's #2 scorer was down with the flu. And, as far as "choking" goes, Bucknell had the game won with about 1:30 to go (ball and a 5 pt lead). Missed FT, 2 TO (only committed 7 previously in the game) and committed a dumb foul on an offensive rebound. Their big hit a running hook shot to win the game by 1.

Again, you are way out of your depth.

[Goliath Uterus]

:banana:

[JMT]

:hammerhead:

[DeuceWallaces]

OP is a retard, but they were awfully lucky early on. This was not far off base.

[JMT]

OP is a retard, but they were awfully lucky early on. This was not far off base.

Every team left has had a close call or two.

[DeuceWallaces]

Not so.

[JMT]

Not so.

Kentucky trailed in the second half vs Iowa State and Indiana was within 3 with 5:00 to go.

Gonzaga had an open shot to tie OSU with 90 seconds remaining.

Only team Louisville hasn't struggled against was Michigan State.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Thread backfire.

[Kiddlovesnets]

You know what is my thought at this time?


"Even a blind hog finds shiit once in awhile"

[JMT]

You know what is my thought at this time?


"Even a blind hog finds shiit once in awhile"

Yep. Except you tried and failed. Mightily.

[Jailblazers7]

You know what is my thought at this time?


"Even a blind hog finds shiit once in awhile"

Yeah, I gues even a blind hog gets to 2 Final 4's in the past 4 seasons. :oldlol:

I hope Kansas wins it all just so you look like an even bigger moron.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well that was just a metaphor anyway, Bill Self is still slightly better than an average coash so hes way better than a blind hog.

[JMT]

Well that was just a metaphor anyway, Bill Self is still slightly better than an average coash so hes way better than a blind hog.

No, the blind hog is you. And you failed at finding the sh*t.

[skan72]

http://cdn2.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/ChokingPoster.jpg

This image is so epic, lol. And it is evident that many people believe that Mario Chalmers was the only one who managed to save Bill Self from choking before.

I guess Butler has choked two-years in a row in the NC game, then...

This thread failed; miserably for you, pleasurably for me.

[skan72]

Well that was just a metaphor anyway, Bill Self is still slightly better than an average coash so hes way better than a blind hog.

You are still claiming he is slightly better than average? Did Self recruit over you at some point? Did he slight you when you were in high school and not recruit you? Did he fk your girlfriend way back in the day?

He can obviously coach. Just look at the facts unbiasedly for once.

[(e)]

Well that was just a metaphor anyway, Bill Self is still slightly better than an average coash so hes way better than a blind hog.
What's that make Roy Williams then? Bill Self made the adjustments to hold UNC to 20 second half points. 20 second half points!!! That is unreal after watching the first half where both teams put up 47.

When he switched to the triangle and 2, UNC didn't have a fcking clue what was going on. UNC only made like 2 shots on that defense and shot under 25% in the second half. That's called getting shut the fck down, and that's being modest.

But you're right, its only his second trip to the Final Four in 4 years, he's just slightly above average.

[KG215]

What's that make Roy Williams then? Bill Self made the adjustments to hold UNC to 20 second half points. 20 second half points!!! That is unreal after watching the first half where both teams put up 47.

When he switched to the triangle and 2, UNC didn't have a fcking clue what was going on. UNC only made like 2 shots on that defense and shot under 25% in the second half. That's called getting shut the fck down, and that's being modest.

But you're right, its only his second trip to the Final Four in 4 years, he's just slightly above average.

It helped that UNC couldn't make a jumpshot to save their lives when Kansas switched to the triangle and two. It was a nice move by Self but if UNC had just made a couple more of the wide-open jumpers then it'd be completely different. And I understand Self's thinking of giving unproven shooters like White and Watts those shots, but Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston all missed some good open looks as well.

[(e)]

It helped that UNC couldn't make a jumpshot to save their lives when Kansas switched to the triangle and two. It was a nice move by Self but if UNC had just made a couple more of the wide-open jumpers then it'd be completely different. And I understand Self's thinking of giving unproven shooters like White and Watts those shots, but Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston all missed some good open looks as well.
UNC didn't go from 60%+ to less than 25% just because. Sure the law of averages and whatnot, but a lot of the credit has to go to Self for the changes that were made that was ultimately the difference maker in deciding the winner of that game.

[KG215]

UNC didn't go from 60%+ to less than 25% just because. Sure the law of averages and whatnot, but a lot of the credit has to go to Self for the changes that were made that was ultimately the difference maker in deciding the winner of that game.

I'm not saying they went from 60% to 25% just because but, like you said, "law of averages and whatnot" did come into play. I said it was a good adjustment by Self because it forced UNC to take jumpers and he wanted Stillman White and Justin Wats shooting from the perimeter instead of Henson and Zeller getting it down low. Like I said, though, UNC's capable shooters (Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston) couldn't buy a jumper in the 2nd half and they all had some open looks even after Self went to the triangle-and-two.

[Goliath Uterus]

Another glorious season for the perennial power, and their fearless leader, top 3 coach in the nation, Bill Fvckin Self.

[niko]

Another glorious season for the perennial power, and their fearless leader, top 3 coach in the nation, Bill Fvckin Self.
i win a lot of money in a pool if Kansas wins so go Kansas! (i actually thought i picked Kentucky but i picked Kansas so please ignore my go Kentucky posts prior.

[Goliath Uterus]

i win a lot of money in a pool if Kansas wins so go Kansas! (i actually thought i picked Kentucky but i picked Kansas so please ignore my go Kentucky posts prior.

I will see a lot of boobies and chill with 40,000 drunk ni99as and get buck if they win so go Kansas!

[niko]

I will see a lot of boobies and chill with 40,000 drunk ni99as and get buck if they win so go Kansas!
i'll win 2k and brag about it forever at work and pay for my daughter's school in japan. Not as exciting as you but GO JAYHAWKS!

[Goliath Uterus]

This was not far off base.

Yes it was.

[Goliath Uterus]

i'll win 2k and brag about it forever at work and pay for my daughter's school in japan. Not as exciting as you but GO JAYHAWKS!

2k is a nice number tho.

[niko]

2k is a nice number tho.
Oh hell yeah.

[Cowboy Thunder]

Come home Bill, your work is done in Kansas

:(

[Goliath Uterus]

Come home Bill, your work is done in Kansas

:(

Keep dreaming.

[JMT]

Come home Bill, your work is done in Kansas

:(

Guys had your shots back in the day but, in the parlance of my OSU buddy, they were "ate up with the dumbass" over Eddie Sutton.

No way Self ends up back at Ok State minus some huge scandal ... like getting caught with a live boy or a dead girl.

[IlliniFan]

Is OP ever right about anything? Lots of evidence telling me the answer is no.

[Maniak]

Is OP ever right about anything? Lots of evidence telling me the answer is no.
He's quite dumb.

[JMT]

Such a great thread I thought we should revisit.:roll:

[skan72]

Such a great thread I thought we should revisit.:roll:

Great bump.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Such a great thread I thought we should revisit.:roll:

Epic thread backfire of all mass proportions. :roll:

[Goliath Uterus]

Self COY....

[Kiddlovesnets]

So what? You can get lucky in a tournament but slip all the way back to what you used to be just a year later. Id like to see how people comment next year once KU chokes again and drops against Mid-Major league teams. Last year people were saying how Self choked and should be fired by Kansas, now so much bandwagon going on. You may say whatever about me, but at least I am being consistent.

[skan72]

So what? You can get lucky in a tournament but slip all the way back to what you used to be just a year later. Id like to see how people comment next year once KU chokes again and drops against Mid-Major league teams. Last year people were saying how Self choked and should be fired by Kansas, now so much bandwagon going on. You may say whatever about me, but at least I am being consistent.

A lot of the times the ball doesn't bounce your way. Mizzou and Duke this year? UConn, the national champs from last year? Get a clue. We all know Self fkd you in your loose ace hole and then never called you after that. Move on, find some one else.

[UtahJazzFan88]

You may say whatever about me, but at least I am being consistent.

Consistent at making a fool out of yourself. Yep.

[Whoah10115]

Isn't Roy Williams a great coach? Didn't he spend 15years in Kansas and not win a title? Hasn't Self won a title?



This is college sports...and it's not the BS that Florida got in football. To win a title kinda says a lot about you as a coach. But whatever.

[Balla_Status]

So what? You can get lucky in a tournament but slip all the way back to what you used to be just a year later. Id like to see how people comment next year once KU chokes again and drops against Mid-Major league teams. Last year people were saying how Self choked and should be fired by Kansas, now so much bandwagon going on. You may say whatever about me, but at least I am being consistent.

Maybe those mid majors just got lucky against KU...moron.

[KG215]

Isn't Roy Williams a great coach? Didn't he spend 15years in Kansas and not win a title? Hasn't Self won a title?

This is college sports...and it's not the BS that Florida got in football. To win a title kinda says a lot about you as a coach. But whatever.

I'd argue that in college basketball you never can be certain if the tournament winner is the true national champion because of all the luck you need along with skill and talent to win six straight single-elimination tournament games, but it does have more certainty to it than the college football national championship.

I don't know how many times I've found myself questioning at the end of the NCAA tournament if the team that won the final game was truly the best team in the country that year. Point being, consistently making and losing in the early rounds doesn't make you a great coach -- unless you do it at a smaller school. Consistently making the tournament and making runs to the Sweet 16, Elite 8, and beyond does make you a great coach. Making Final Fours and winning national championships should not and do not define the greatness of a coach. There is just too much that can happen in any one basketball game to allow a "Cinderella" to "upset" the favorite. If the NCAA tournament was setup in a four round best of three format then sure, teams like Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, etc. would make the Final Four almost every year. But in a single elimination tournament with all the uncertainty surrounding it, you can't call a coach "bad" or "choker" when he makes a few Final Fours and wins a national championship or two.

[KG215]

Kiddslovesnets, how about you look at the 2011-2012 season as what many thought it was going to be for Kansas. They lost four starters from last year's team, including two All-Big 12/All-American caliber players in the Morris twins. On top of that three of their 2011 recruits were ruled ineligible for the season. Basically all they had was a bunch of unknowns heading into the year. Sure, Thomas Robinson was being selected for preseason All-American teams but he was still unproven. Withey was still raw and and unknown, and Tyshawn Taylor was a turnover machine early in the season. I remember watching them against Duke in Maui and thinking this team will be lucky to win 20 games and finish higher than 4th or 5th in the Big 12.

Yet, here we are five months later, and Kansas is playing Kentucky for a national championship. There's no help for you if you can't see that what Self has done with this Kansas team truly is remarkable.

[Jailblazers7]

Kiddslovesnets, how about you look at the 2011-2012 season as what many thought it was going to be for Kansas. They lost four starters from last year's team, including two All-Big 12/All-American caliber players in the Morris twins. On top of that three of their 2011 recruits were ruled ineligible for the season. Basically all they had was a bunch of unknowns heading into the year. Sure, Thomas Robinson was being selected for preseason All-American teams but he was still unproven. Withey was still raw and and unknown, and Tyshawn Taylor was a turnover machine early in the season. I remember watching them against Duke in Maui and thinking this team will be lucky to win 20 games and finish higher than 4th or 5th in the Big 12.

Yet, here we are five months later, and Kansas is playing Kentucky for a national championship. There's no help for you if you can't see that what Self has done with this Kansas team truly is remarkable.

And wasn't Robinson's emergence last season and this season at least partially attributed to his relationship with Self.

Don't bother with Kiddlovesnets tho. He doesn't pay attention until the tournament and all the information he has to go on is the team seedings. He doesn't understand basketball and isn't capable of analysing teams beyond a thin surface.

[wang4three]

Dude called Self and Matta average coaches. As an Illini fan I'm supposed to dislike them both on a certain level, but give credit where credit's due. They're fantastic coaches.

[Jailblazers7]

Dude called Self and Matta average coaches. As an Illini fan I'm supposed to dislike them both on a certain level, but give credit where credit's due. They're fantastic coaches.

He only judgees based on seeding. He ignores conference champs, recruiting, and actual skill.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Maybe those mid majors just got lucky against KU...moron.

Oh such logic, so interesting. If all these four upsets in last 8 years can be categorized as luck, cant we just apply the same logic to KU as well? I mean, werent they lucky enough to face a UNC team that lost its engine Kendal Marshall, and an OSU team led by an even more mediocre coach called Thad Matta?

[Jailblazers7]

Oh such logic, so interesting. If all these four upsets in last 8 years can be categorized as luck, cant we just apply the same logic to KU as well? I mean, werent they lucky enough to face a UNC team that lost its engine Kendal Marshall, and an OSU team led by an even more mediocre coach called Thad Matta?

Id love to see anthing close to an objective value of caoching skill other than judments you have already made.

[Goliath Uterus]

Kiddslovesnets, how about you look at the 2011-2012 season as what many thought it was going to be for Kansas. They lost four starters from last year's team, including two All-Big 12/All-American caliber players in the Morris twins. On top of that three of their 2011 recruits were ruled ineligible for the season. Basically all they had was a bunch of unknowns heading into the year. Sure, Thomas Robinson was being selected for preseason All-American teams but he was still unproven. Withey was still raw and and unknown, and Tyshawn Taylor was a turnover machine early in the season. I remember watching them against Duke in Maui and thinking this team will be lucky to win 20 games and finish higher than 4th or 5th in the Big 12.

Yet, here we are five months later, and Kansas is playing Kentucky for a national championship. There's no help for you if you can't see that what Self has done with this Kansas team truly is remarkable.

and don't forget the year before that, when we lost Sherron Collins, Cole Aldrich, and Xavier Henry... two lotto picks and a top 3 CBB player, and we still won the Big 12 and got to the Elite 8.


Oh such logic, so interesting. If all these four upsets in last 8 years can be categorized as luck, cant we just apply the same logic to KU as well? I mean, werent they lucky enough to face a UNC team that lost its engine Kendal Marshall, and an OSU team led by an even more mediocre coach called Thad Matta?

3 upsets, and one of those was in the Elite 8. Duke has been upset 6 of the past 7 years, all before the Elite 8... is Coach K average? UNC didn't even make the tourney a few years back, Roy's average?

[Kiddlovesnets]

3 upsets, and one of those was in the Elite 8. Duke has been upset 6 of the past 7 years, all before the Elite 8... is Coach K average? UNC didn't even make the tourney a few years back, Roy's average?

Well you cannot just look at the number of upsets here, since technically a No.1 seed losing to a No.2 seed is an upset. It is the magnitude of upset that matters, No.1 seed dropping against No.4/5 seed is nothing comparable to No.1 seed stunned by No.8/9 seed, or No.3 seed getting crushed by a No.14 seed. KU has 4 major upsets losing to teams seeded at least 8 positions lower(14-3 = 11, 13-4 = 9, 9-1 = 8, 11-1 = 10), Duke has like only one(though a big one I say, 15-2 = 13 lol).

[JMT]

Well you cannot just look at the number of upsets here, since technically a No.1 seed losing to a No.2 seed is an upset. It is the magnitude of upset that matters, No.1 seed dropping against No.4/5 seed is nothing comparable to No.1 seed stunned by No.8/9 seed, or No.3 seed getting crushed by a No.14 seed. KU has 4 major upsets losing to teams seeded at least 8 positions lower(14-3 = 11, 13-4 = 9, 9-1 = 8, 11-1 = 10), Duke has like only one(though a big one I say, 15-2 = 13 lol).

You completely lost what little credibility you had at early on in this thread.

Self, the "average" coach, got to the title game with a team that was projected to finish third in it's conference. He had one player who would have started on Kentucky and made a really good run at them.

Just quit and come back next year with more ridiculous nonsense about seeding meaning something. Or better yet, don't come back. You have nothing to offer.

[Goliath Uterus]

Well you cannot just look at the number of upsets here, since technically a No.1 seed losing to a No.2 seed is an upset. It is the magnitude of upset that matters, No.1 seed dropping against No.4/5 seed is nothing comparable to No.1 seed stunned by No.8/9 seed, or No.3 seed getting crushed by a No.14 seed. KU has 4 major upsets losing to teams seeded at least 8 positions lower(14-3 = 11, 13-4 = 9, 9-1 = 8, 11-1 = 10), Duke has like only one(though a big one I say, 15-2 = 13 lol).

Final Coaches Polls of the Last 5 years.

KU: #2, #4, #6, #10, #1

DUKE: #14, #7, #1, #11, #16

UNC: #6, #8, NR, #1, #3

UK: #1, #3, #5, NR, NR

UCONN: NR, #1, NR, #3, NR

UCLA: NR, NR, NR, #18, #4

MSU: #7, NR, #4, #2, #13

Louisville: #4, #22, NR, #5, #6

tOSU: #3, #5, #11, NR, NR

Cuse: #5, #18, #8, #12, NR

KSU: NR, #24, #7, NR, NR

MU: #11, NR, NR, #8, NR
__________________

[Kiddlovesnets]

Final Coaches Polls of the Last 5 years.

KU: #2, #4, #6, #10, #1

DUKE: #14, #7, #1, #11, #16

UNC: #6, #8, NR, #1, #3

UK: #1, #3, #5, NR, NR

UCONN: NR, #1, NR, #3, NR

UCLA: NR, NR, NR, #18, #4

MSU: #7, NR, #4, #2, #13

Louisville: #4, #22, NR, #5, #6

tOSU: #3, #5, #11, NR, NR

Cuse: #5, #18, #8, #12, NR

KSU: NR, #24, #7, NR, NR

MU: #11, NR, NR, #8, NR
__________________

So what? It is still mostly based on Regular seasons, which I do not even care much about if the team loses early in Tournament. Look at Missouri, Haith actually got coach of the year and his team choked against a team that any top 25 teams should beat by 20-30.
:facepalm

[Goliath Uterus]

So what? It is still mostly based on Regular seasons, which I do not even care much about if the team loses early in Tournament. Look at Missouri, Haith actually got coach of the year and his team choked against a team that any top 25 teams should beat by 20-30.
:facepalm

I think it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

[KG215]

So what? It is still mostly based on Regular seasons, which I do not even care much about if the team loses early in Tournament. Look at Missouri, Haith actually got coach of the year and his team choked against a team that any top 25 teams should beat by 20-30.
:facepalm

LOL, if Norfolk State shot like they did against Missouri against any other top 10 team (including Kentucky) they wouldn't lose by more than 10, and that doesn't count the ones they win.

[Kiddlovesnets]

LOL, if Norfolk State shot like they did against Missouri against any other top 10 team (including Kentucky) they wouldn't lose by more than 10, and that doesn't count the ones they win.

Oh yeah, then explain why they couldnt shot that high percentage against any top 25 teams whose names were NOT Missouri Tigers?

[KG215]

Oh yeah, then explain why they couldnt shot that high percentage against any top 25 teams whose names were NOT Missouri Tigers?

Because anything can happen in a one game scenario. I mean, really?? Do you read what you're posting as you type it?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Because anything can happen in a one game scenario. I mean, really?? Do you read what you're posting as you type it?

Oh one and done game scenario, what an excuse. I am sure everyone notices that certain teams have higher chances to drop against Mid-major league teams, and sometimes its even a guaranteed upset pick in mock brackets. Coincidence? I dont think so, you can blame bad luck and teams shooting poorly if it happens once. This I do agree, but there's gotta be a reason behind repeated choking. I mean, something that happens repeatedly.

[JMT]

Oh one and done game scenario, what an excuse. I am sure everyone notices that certain teams have higher chances to drop against Mid-major league teams, and sometimes its even a guaranteed upset pick in mock brackets. Coincidence? I dont think so, you can blame bad luck and teams shooting poorly if it happens once. This I do agree, but there's gotta be a reason behind repeated choking. I mean, something that happens repeatedly.

You sound dumber and dumber the more you try to argue this point that you lost convincingly pages ago.

Norfolk State played four teams this past season that appeared in the top 25.

They defeated Drexel by 5, lost by 2 to Marquette in the championship game of their pre-season tournament, beat Missouri by 2, and got creamed by Florida. That's a 2-2 record, and not at all indicative of a team that's overmatched because of the conference they're in. Just a good basketball team that on any given night can play with anyone.

All you seem to know about college basketball is seeding #s and the term "mid-major".