is Lebron better than Jordan at his peak this season?

[cteach111]

Lebron's dominating this season. Both 27 years old. Who was better?

[Bandito]

MJ obviously [/thread]

[miles berg]

Lebron's dominating this season. Both 27 years old. Who was better?

Not even close.

[LABean]

Kobe.

[SuperPippen]

Kobe.


.....isn't as good as either LeBron or Jordan at their peaks.


As for the OP's question: no.

[lbj23clutch]

Lebron's dominating this season. Both 27 years old. Who was better?
Kill yourself. :facepalm

[Alamo]

MJ

[Tenchi Ryu]

Lebron's high FG% is due to transition dunks/lay-ups, and not shooting many jumpers.

Jordan's high FG% was from him cutting through the traffic (just about flawlessly btw), making contested jumpers on a frequent basis, and having no regard for human life dunking ON people.

Jordan, and not even close.

[arifgokcen]

This years lebron is statiscally better than jordan.I am gonna get crucified for this but i think this years lebron is more dominating in the regular season than jordan.I think jordan as great as he was is being overrated.I think he is the best player to ever play this game however as i said he is being overrated.

[arifgokcen]

Lebron's high FG% is due to transition dunks/lay-ups, and not shooting many jumpers.

Jordan's high FG% was from him cutting through the traffic (just about flawlessly btw), making contested jumpers on a frequent basis, and having no regard for human life dunking ON people.

Jordan, and not even close.

How is that different.MJ dunks layups are different than lebron is this what you are saying please
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Eric Cartman]

He is having high fg % because of cherry picking, breakaway dunks. That's the benefit of playing with 2 top 15 players.

[jjayfive]

Statistically Oscar Robertson was the best.

[Tenchi Ryu]

How is that different.MJ dunks layups are different than lebron is this what you are saying please
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
WTF?!

How in the hell is that the SAME?!

A Cherry picked transition dunk is NOT cutting through heavy traffic and then dunking on some damn body. Or having someone in your face, and dropping fadeaway jumpers on them....On a FREQUENT BASIS, not a random Lebron on fire night.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[LABean]

.....isn't as good as either LeBron or Jordan at their peaks.


As for the OP's question: no.

:facepalm


Kobe....


Anyway, I'll take LeBron over Jordan.

[lilgodfather1]

WTF?!

How in the hell is that the SAME?!

A Cherry picked transition dunk is NOT cutting through heavy traffic and then dunking on some damn body. Or having someone in your face, and dropping fadeaway jumpers on them....On a FREQUENT BASIS, not a random Lebron on fire night.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Playing 1 on 1 must have been a great benefit for Jordan. Too bad LeBron doesn't have that luxury. What would his stats be? 38 on 22 shots or so? Sounds about right.

[k0kakw0rld]

Lebron's high FG% is due to transition dunks/lay-ups, and not shooting many jumpers.

Jordan's high FG% was from him cutting through the traffic (just about flawlessly btw), making contested jumpers on a frequent basis, and having no regard for human life dunking ON people.

Jordan, and not even close.

:facepalm You are a moron. I'll take high fg% easy buckets over contested shots anyday of my life.

[Tenchi Ryu]

:facepalm You are a moron. I'll take high fg% easy buckets over contested shots anyday of my life.
Who gives a shit, if those contested shots are STILL getting me a high %, of course I'll take that. Its also the reason MJ is in GOAT discussions and not Lebron.
:facepalm :facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

He is having high fg % because of cherry picking, breakaway dunks. That's the benefit of playing with 2 top 15 players.

Not to mention rule changes that presented slashing to the hoop as a gift on a silver platter to any player who knows how to dribble and run forward. If the defense breathes on you in today's game they will be whistled for contact. If they actually are caught using their hands -god forbid- they will get a flagrant. Jordan played against the bad boys. Lecry wouldn't be gifted this type of season in the late 80's.

[Indian guy]

The only version of Bulls-MJ that's not better than 11-12 LeBron is rookie MJ.

[coin24]

WOW:facepalm


How about some of you retards go watch footage of Jordan play before you compare that clown Lebron to him again:mad: NOT EVEN CLOSE....

[gengiskhan]

Jordan by a mile in his peak

Lebron got it too easy because he can easily slash to the basket for dunks & lay ups created by "no" handchecking rule.

You just cannot slow down slashing & dunking without severe hand check.

MJ in his whole career got severe hand checking top of the key & he still broke down defenses with surgical precision particularly in his peak.

Its not even close.

MJ's peak was significantly better than Lebron of today.

its not even a comparison.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The only version of Bulls-MJ that's not better than 11-12 LeBron is rookie MJ.
And I'd still take a Rookie Jordan's slashing ability over this year Lebron's.

[iDefend5]

Not even close.
This

[CelticBaller]

Kobe.
******gers never fail to mention his name in threads like this :lol

[madmax]

Playing 1 on 1 must have been a great benefit for Jordan. Too bad LeBron doesn't have that luxury. What would his stats be? 38 on 22 shots or so? Sounds about right.

:applause:
so true...looks like watching too much of Space Jam distorted the reality for some quite a bit. Lebron would average 40 on 60 % shooting back in the 80's - true talk here:cheers:

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's playing great. He's playing the best since Shaq in 2001. And he's playing like '98 MJ maybe.

I never saw MJ in his prime so i won't say something like "Heck no, Jordan in his prime was so much better" like many people on here are saying even though they probably never watched Jordan in 1991 or were too young to really know what was going on then.

But from what I've seen in a few youtube games and just by using reasoning that Prime Jordan was probably like '98 Jordan plus 10, I'd say Lebron isn't at that level.

[DFish]

Not even close.
This

That.

[Tenchi Ryu]

:applause:
so true...looks like watching too much of Space Jam distorted the reality for some quite a bit. Lebron would average 40 on 60 % shooting back in the 80's - true talk here:cheers:
http://www.protias.com/Pictures/Thread/StarTrekFacePalm.gif

[coin24]

:applause:
so true...looks like watching too much of Space Jam distorted the reality for some quite a bit. Lebron would average 40 on 60 % shooting back in the 80's - true talk here:cheers:


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[tmacattack33]

He is having high fg % because of cherry picking, breakaway dunks. That's the benefit of playing with 2 top 15 players.


LOL at cherry picking. The guy a lot of times is in the post guarding PF's, and then a turnover or offensive rebound is had and within a second or two he is down at the other end of the court ahead of everybody because he is the fastest sprinter in the NBA from end to end...maybe ever.

[hawke812]

:applause:
so true...looks like watching too much of Space Jam distorted the reality for some quite a bit. Lebron would average 40 on 60 % shooting back in the 80's - true talk here:cheers:

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:
so true...looks like watching too much of Space Jam distorted the reality for some quite a bit. Lebron would average 40 on 60 % shooting back in the 80's - true talk here:cheers:

:roll:

You think so?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSPIQiFAe6U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSpcLo4rG3Q






















VS




















Queen LeDrama

http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/Qu3en06/lebron-flop-3.gif















They didn't let teenage children come out of High School back then for a reason.

[sbw19]

Think Jordan minus the killer instinct, post game, mid range game, FT shooting, different body build and you've got LeBron.

[tmacattack33]

Jordan by a mile in his peak

Lebron got it too easy because he can easily slash to the basket for dunks & lay ups created by "no" handchecking rule.

You just cannot slow down slashing & dunking without severe hand check.

MJ in his whole career got severe hand checking top of the key & he still broke down defenses with surgical precision particularly in his peak.

Its not even close.

MJ's peak was significantly better than Lebron of today.

its not even a comparison.

Not trying to say Lebron is at MJ peak level, but...

If you are going to apply the "but there was hand checking back then" thing, then use it consistently.

It would be there for both offense and defense for Lebron. And Lebron is a physical beast and is very strong...with hand checking his defense would improve just how his offense would decline.

And compared to his peers, Lebron's offense would decline less (because he is so big and strong), making him an even better offensive player when compared to his peers like Durant (lol at the thought of this stick figure playing through rough defense) and Derrick Rose.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Think Jordan minus the killer instinct, post game, mid range game, FT shooting, different body build and you've got LeBron.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Think Jordan minus the killer instinct, post game, mid range game, FT shooting, different body build and you've got LeBron.


You forgot to subtract the clutch gene

[Tenchi Ryu]

Hell, the Pacers team this year is the closest thing to the bad Boys Pistons we've gotten in the 2010s when it comes to aggression and dirty tactics. And even the game last week, the entire Heat team AND the fanbase was bitching about getting roughed up.

Then this fool got the nerve to say Lebron would kill in the 80s.
Charles Oakley Alone would have Bron crying at the end of the game.

[Cali Syndicate]

Why does this thread even exist?

First of all, the season isn't even over yet. Wouldn't it at all depend if Lebron can carry this dominance into the playoffs and towards winning a championship like Jordan was doing? Cause for me what a player does in the playoffs matter most.

Dirk wasn't even regarded as the best player in the league until he had that brilliant post season.

Also for those who actually believe teams defended Jordan one-on-one during the 80's need to visit YouTube and watch some games. Sure rules didn't allow teams to double him off the ball but teams sent double and triples on Jordan all the time. And Jordan was a perimeter player, as in he mainly set up on the, yes, the "perimeter." It's not like teams are doubling Lebron when he sets up at the top of the key, which is where he always works.

And even if teams were allowed to double Jordan off the ball to contain him from posting up, he worked real quick out the post so not even sure teams could stop him from doing what he did anyways.

[Micku]

Depends on what you consider MJ peak. It's difficult to say when his peak was.

And yes and no with LBJ being better than MJ.

Miami Heat have Wade and that gives LBJ less pressure on him. And LBJ is playing less games, but on the different scale is that LBJ is having a tighter schedule.

It still doesn't change the fact that LBJ is killing this season. He is good with the mid jumper and good at driving. Even with that said, MJ was more skilled. MJ was better in the post and probably was better with his jumper. MJ might've been better defensive, but LBJ is more versatile. He is like a Pippen on steroids.

I think what sort'a separates him and Jordan is the mental aspect. Jordan proved in the biggest stage while LBJ could not (not yet). You could also say that Jordan played in a league where it was easier to guard players one on one than it is now.

In advance stats, current LBJ is better than peak Jordan. But the way they play within the offense is different and they do different things. I think Jordan is better within the half court by posting up, off ball movement, using screen for the pick and pop, and just a better catch and shoot player. LBJ is better at running the offense, passing, and LBJ could be better on the open floor.

LBJ is a mixture of Magic, Pippen and Wilkins on steroids.

But lol @ ppl thinking that it isn't close. LBJ is extremely efficient this year. The best offensive player and one of the best defensive player this year. The dude almost have no weakness. The only criticism ppl really have of him is his in the final period, and taking the final shot. I think that matters when you compare him to Jordan who is more of the alpha dog there. But it's not like Jordan didn't pass up the shot (Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong). It just that he didn't seem afraid to shoot it either.

Bottom line, we have to wait until the season is over. Could LBJ continue his regular season success in the playoffs? We'll see.

[Jameerthefear]

Lmao are lebron stans really trying to comepare lechoke to the goat? At least Kobe fans have a case.

[cotdt]

Lebron is better than MJ in his prime due to his higher FG% right?

[Tenchi Ryu]

But lol @ ppl thinking that it isn't close. LBJ is extremely efficient this year.

I understand what you're trying to say, but yes, its not close at all. Lebron's high FG% is from transition buckets and high percentage looks. But we've seen Lebron struggle with good defense, especially a good Zone defense that slows down the pace of the game.

Jordan had no problem because he literally could give you a driving game, or shoot jumpers in your face. You basically had to pick your poison. Lebron would not be as efficient if he was playing in Jordan's time for reasons others brought up. His numbers are similar, but for VERY different reasons. And going off numbers alone is a terrible way to compare.

[StateOfMind12]

The last time LeBron was compared to MJ was when LeBron was heading into the 2011 NBA Finals and LeBron disappeared for those Finals.

History tends to repeat itself so watch out Heat/LeBron fans.

[sbw19]

You forgot to subtract the clutch gene

To be honest, it seems LeBron crumbles under the pressure of expectations. He was mad clutch when his team was the underdog, then started to fade in big moments seasons Cavs won best record.

He's still young though, and can and probably will improve his game the way most great players had done before him.

[tmacattack33]

Depends on what you consider MJ peak. It's difficult to say when his peak was.

And yes and no with LBJ being better than MJ.

Miami Heat have Wade and that gives LBJ less pressure on him. And LBJ is playing less games, but on the different scale is that LBJ is having a tighter schedule.

It still doesn't change the fact that LBJ is killing this season. He is good with the mid jumper and good at driving. Even with that said, MJ was more skilled. MJ was better in the post and probably was better with his jumper. MJ might've been better defensive, but LBJ is more versatile. He is like a Pippen on steroids.

I think what sort'a separates him and Jordan is the mental aspect. Jordan proved in the biggest stage while LBJ could not (not yet). You could also say that Jordan played in a league where it was easier to guard players one on one than it is now.

In advance stats, current LBJ is better than peak Jordan. But the way they play within the offense is different and they do different things. I think Jordan is better within the half court by posting up, off ball movement, using screen for the pick and pop, and just a better catch and shoot player. LBJ is better at running the offense, passing, and LBJ could be better on the open floor.

LBJ is a mixture of Magic, Pippen and Wilkins on steroids.

But lol @ ppl thinking that it isn't close. LBJ is extremely efficient this year. The best offensive player and one of the best defensive player this year. The dude almost have no weakness. The only criticism ppl really have of him is his in the final period, and taking the final shot. I think that matters when you compare him to Jordan who is more of the alpha dog there. But it's not like Jordan didn't pass up the shot (Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong). It just that he didn't seem afraid to shoot it either.

Bottom line, we have to wait until the season is over. Could LBJ continue his regular season success in the playoffs? We'll see.

This was actually a solid post with reasoning. Good stuff. It was a much better post than these Space Jam fans saying that MJ was better "by a mile".

LOL at "by a mile". I think everyone can agree that Lebron is playing amazing ball and his having one of the best seasons of the decade. If MJ was truly better "by a mile" , then he must have averaged 70 pts, 20 assists, and 20 rebounds per game.

[madmax]

Hell, the Pacers team this year is the closest thing to the bad Boys Pistons we've gotten in the 2010s when it comes to aggression and dirty tactics. And even the game last week, the entire Heat team AND the fanbase was bitching about getting roughed up.

Then this fool got the nerve to say Lebron would kill in the 80s.
Charles Oakley Alone would have Bron crying at the end of the game.

does anyone else find it funny how it's mostly Bulls homers who are fangirling MJ like he's some untouchable God?:lol These fools sure love to hype up their heroes, init? (cough, Debrick Rose. cough):violin:

[Tenchi Ryu]

You can tell some of you never watched Jordan play. Hell, I'm only 21, and was BORN in 91. Luckily though, during the lockout, NBA TV showed older games part of the "Hardwood Classics". I too only saw mostly 97-98 jordan as a kid, but after watching these games and playoff seasons with my OWN EYES, prime Jordan was on a completely different tier. His athleticism was unrivaled, DUNKING on CENTERS was an occasional thing for him. It didn't matter if he was open, had a hand in his face, got fouled, had no chance to make the shot, he SCORED.

The fact some of you are going on stats alone shows how Flawed this entire thread is. Let me see Lebron effectively go an ENTIRE season being treated as the number one threat, and STILL shitting on folks who shoved, elbowed, hand-checked, and all kinds of stuff that isn't allowed today. Its just not the same when Lebron's high FG is due to transition...that's the Heat's main strength for christ sake.

[Tenchi Ryu]

does anyone else find it funny how it's mostly Bulls homers who are fangirling MJ like he's some untouchable God?:lol These fools sure love to hype up their heroes, init? (cough, Debrick Rose. cough):violin:
No, you got the Ledick all in your throat you're trying to spew that LeSemen on everyone else, luckily, you'll get ignored, as usual. And the Irony of you complaining about player worship...every post you make shows you getting dicked by Bron Bron.

[JohnnyWall]

If LeBron was anywhere close to the level of Michael ****in' Jordan, it would be resulting in rings already. Bottom line.

Prime Jordan on the 2010-11 Miami Heat with Wade and Bosh = guaranteed ring. Not even a doubt in my mind. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take the Cavaliers to a ring or two either. Jordan certainly wouldn't make a habit out of passing on clutch shots or not showing up in the 4th quarters of crucial finals games. I can tell you that much.

I don't mind people comparing LeBron to Jordan as an athlete. But as a basketball player? LeBron is nowhere near Jordan as a player.

[Heavincent]

Lebron is better at being a choking loser. That's about it though.

[TeamLAC]

LBJ should never be compared to MJ... ever.

[Micku]

I understand what you're trying to say, but yes, its not close at all. Lebron's high FG% is from transition buckets and high percentage looks. But we've seen Lebron struggle with good defense, especially a good Zone defense that slows down the pace of the game.

Jordan had no problem because he literally could give you a driving game, or shoot jumpers in your face. You basically had to pick your poison. Lebron would not be as efficient if he was playing in Jordan's time for reasons others brought up. His numbers are similar, but for VERY different reasons. And going off numbers alone is a terrible way to compare.

You don't think Jordan got a bunch of points with transition buckets too? Jordan and Pippen were considered to be one of the best in the open floor of their era. And when is the last time a SF, SG or a PG average 25+ ppg with 55% shooting? I don't think anybody as done this since the 80s or early 90s. Miami Heat style of play is similar to how they play in the early 90s on the fastbreaks. Right now, LBJ is at his most complete game. He could shoot in your face, he could operate in the high or low post to a degree, and drive it (not as good as D-Wade).

With said, I do think Jordan is better in the half court game because of his skills and off the ball movement. He probably was a better mid-range shooter too. Jordan could also run the offense along with Pippen. I could also understand ppl saying that Jordan had a better complete offensive game and to handchecking to a point.

But I think we would have to wait until the season is over before we really compare. Jordan also dominated the playoffs. LBJ has done it statistically, but really under perform in the finals. Jordan didn't do that. The season isn't over yet, so we'll see what happens.

-----

And there are two main reasons why LBJ is extremely efficient.

1. The fastbreaks are much better in comparison to last year.

2. He doesn't take 5 threes a game anymore. He is taking smarter shots. All of them are either mid-range jumpers, taking ppl to the post, or driving it.

[TheAesirsFinest]

This thread is actually a blessing in disguise. It's pretty obvious who deserves to be ignore-listed in this thread. Save yourselves time on this forum, and use it.

[REACTION]

If LeBron wins MVP, leads this Miami team to a championship this year, tears it up in the finals and gets FMVP, I'd be okay with Jordan comparisons. I don't necessarily think I'd say he's better than Jordan, mind you, but I wouldn't be opposed to the comparisons.

I think this season will be a major deciding factor for how we'll view LeBron's career. Not quite make-or-break, but close to it. He can either strengthen his case (if he wins his first title and has an incredible finals performance), or he can perpetuate the media rhetoric about him not closing out important games (if he faces another loss or poor finals performance).

[CardiacKemba]

Obviously MJ was better at this stage, but the difference isn't daylight like most people on here are acting.

Also, how stupid can some people be, if you are criticizing someones stats/play because they get 'dunks' and easy points. If a player gets himself into the position for easy buckets, how is that a bad thing? Last time I checked, an open lay up is of equal value to a contested fadeaway jumper.

[FKAri]

No he isn't. But the Bulls/MJ fangirls in this thread are annoying and have never even seen MJ play on a regular basis. You think NBAtv is gonna broadcast Jordan's poor shooting nights? lol @ thinking that gives you a good idea of how he played. It is close.

Lebron is too difficult to compare to MJ anyway. Their games are nothing alike. Lebron should be compared to Larry Bird or Magic imo.

[CardiacKemba]

No he isn't. But the Bulls/MJ fangirls in this thread are annoying and have never even seen MJ play on a regular basis. You think NBAtv is gonna broadcast Jordan's poor shooting nights? lol @ thinking that gives you a good idea of how he played. It is close.

Lebron is too difficult to compare to MJ anyway. Their games are nothing alike. Lebron should be compared to Larry Bird or Magic imo.

Couldn't agree more. We all know MJ is the greatest there's been. But no need to act like he didn't have any off nights. People on here talk as if he played at a godly level EVERY single night.

[sbw19]

If LeBron wins MVP, leads this Miami team to a championship this year, tears it up in the finals and gets FMVP, I'd be okay with Jordan comparisons. I don't necessarily think I'd say he's better than Jordan, mind you, but I wouldn't be opposed to the comparisons.

If LeBron wins MVP, he better win a title. Not necessarily FMVP, just a title. Can't have the huge blemish of 3 MVPs and zero rings on your resume. That's why I think it might be better for Durant to win MVP this season, if for no other reason than LeBron avoiding that possibility, not to mention it'd ease pressure off of him a bit come playoff time.

[TheNaturalWR]

WTF?!

How in the hell is that the SAME?!

A Cherry picked transition dunk is NOT cutting through heavy traffic and then dunking on some damn body. Or having someone in your face, and dropping fadeaway jumpers on them....On a FREQUENT BASIS, not a random Lebron on fire night.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You obviously don't watch Heat games so just stop acting like you do. LeBron James rarely cherry picks. Who cares about how you get to the rim? Because LeBron finishes just as well as Jordan did and anyone who denies that is just being ignorant. The only cherry picker on the Heat is Wade and I'm a Wade fan. LeBron is doing everything this season and is clearly the best player in basketball BAR NONE but with that being said Jordan was still better :oldlol:

[Micku]

No he isn't. But the Bulls/MJ fangirls in this thread are annoying and have never even seen MJ play on a regular basis. You think NBAtv is gonna broadcast Jordan's poor shooting nights? lol @ thinking that gives you a good idea of how he played. It is close.

Lebron is too difficult to compare to MJ anyway. Their games are nothing alike. Lebron should be compared to Larry Bird or Magic imo.

Their game is nothing alike either.

Bird never really hold the ball as much as LBJ.

Magic and LBJ game is not really alike either. They were similar in how they run the offense, but Magic in his prime was a huge mismatch in the post, which he operated.

[NumberSix]

Lebron's high FG% is due to transition dunks/lay-ups, and not shooting many jumpers.

Jordan's high FG% was from him cutting through the traffic (just about flawlessly btw), making contested jumpers on a frequent basis, and having no regard for human life dunking ON people.

Jordan, and not even close.
LeBron's not really a shooter though. MJ was an all time great scorer. That's not really LBJ's game though. He can score, but being a "scorer" isn't really what his game is.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Yes, they actually do show bad games, including his playoff exit in 95 against Orlando. And being a Chicago resident, they showed regular seasons on our local comcast sports net. Of course MJ had bad games, but his good games are not something that Lebron can compare to cause of different styles of play. The entire thread is messed up cause its being entirely based off of FG%. If thats the case, Tyson Chandler is close to MJ as well.

Nobody says he's a god, but there is a reason he's widely regarded as the unofficial greatest player of all time, even by his peers of the likes of Magic and Bird. I could understand if the thread was is Lebron having as good a SEASON as MJ, then maybe it would be close. But no, its "Lebron better than Jordan at his peak this season?" As in, is Lebron a better PLAYER, and like many have said, its not even close when factoring everything that makes a great player, not just stats.

For Lebron to be close, he'd have to be in constant GOAT debates, which he is not. Lebron has to at least get past Magic and Bird before having a case of being better or as good as MJ. Hell, even someone like Shaq doesn't normally get into the GOAT discussion...

If anything, compare LBJ to Shaq first.

[Pharcyde]

I'm posting on my phone so I can't break it down, but take a look at Jordan's stats 9 years into the league with 33PPG on 49% shooting, then compare it to LeBron's season this year.

[DonDadda59]

Kind of funny that Lebron and MJ are being compared when they really play/played nothing alike. If anything, Lebron's game resembles Pippen's more. But Lebron is having a monster regular season no doubt about it. You'd have a hard time convincing me that it's better than Jordan's 32.5 PPG (54%) 8 RPG 8 APG 3 SPG 1 BPG season though. But to each their own, going solely by PER Bron is having the best reg season ever, however truncated it will be, so to each their own.

Call me when the playoffs are over and then we'll talk about Jordan.

[chazzy]

Like I've been saying, not even convinced he's better than he was in '09 and '10. People staring at the stat sheets and not looking at the context in which he's getting his buckets.

[poido123]

does anyone else find it funny how it's mostly Bulls homers who are fangirling MJ like he's some untouchable God?:lol These fools sure love to hype up their heroes, init? (cough, Debrick Rose. cough):violin:

I find it funny that you point out something that is blatently homerish on your own part. Since when would you ever give credit to Jordan or Rose for the matter? I guess Bulls fans arent allowed to defend their own players, when they have pieces of S**t like you constantly creating troll threads.

As for untouchable god, well he's the closest among maybe 4 other guys in the GOAT discussions, so I am kind of scratching my head to exactly what you are pointing out. :no:

As for the Lebron comparison, hell no, Ive watched both players entire careers to this day, and with my own eyes I can say Jordan is better by a good margin. Better competitor, better performer full stop.

[HighFlyer23]

it would actually be a debate if lebron wasn't a mentally weak clown

when you're too scared to even TAKE a gw shot in an all star game then you really have no business being in any discussion with the most cold blooded player in NBA history



Yes, they actually do show bad games, including his playoff exit in 95 against Orlando. And being a Chicago resident, they showed regular seasons on our local comcast sports net. Of course MJ had bad games, but his good games are not something that Lebron can compare to cause of different styles of play. The entire thread is messed up cause its being entirely based off of FG%. If thats the case, Tyson Chandler is close to MJ as well.

Nobody says he's a god, but there is a reason he's widely regarded as the unofficial greatest player of all time, even by his peers of the likes of Magic and Bird. I could understand if the thread was is Lebron having as good a SEASON as MJ, then maybe it would be close. But no, its "Lebron better than Jordan at his peak this season?" As in, is Lebron a better PLAYER, and like many have said, its not even close when factoring everything that makes a great player, not just stats.

For Lebron to be close, he'd have to be in constant GOAT debates, which he is not. Lebron has to at least get past Magic and Bird before having a case of being better or as good as MJ. Hell, even someone like Shaq doesn't normally get into the GOAT discussion...

If anything, compare LBJ to Shaq first.

Yeah because it makes sense comparing post players with perimeter wing players

[Dave3]

Like I've been saying, not even convinced he's better than he was in '09 and '10. People staring at the stat sheets and not looking at the context in which he's getting his buckets.
He's playing about as well as 2009 and 2010, with the exception of his passiveness in the 4th. The last few games (Utah and Indiana) have been a little more reminiscent of his time in Cleveland. If he plays like that for the rest of the year, this year will be arguably on the level of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010.

[cteach111]

so it appears that many here do think that Lebron this year is on his level. People only seem to be hesitant to compare the 2 because of Lebron's 4th quarter play these past 2 years.

If that's the only argument though, then that means that 2009/2010 Lebron were most certainly on Jordan's level of play. So, if James gets his mojo back and he wins a title, then I'd say it's a pick'em between the 2.

[Simple Jack]

The only knock on LeBron this season is his play in the clutch. While overblown, I think that's really the only major difference. If LeBron was draining clutch shots/game winners this year there would literally be no downside to his game that people could mention. He's playing excellent defense, guarding all positions, and impacting games like no other.

Seriously, if LeBron was having a very clutch year this year, what could anyone really say?

[Tenchi Ryu]

so it appears that many here do think that Lebron this year is on his level. People only seem to be hesitant to compare the 2 because of Lebron's 4th quarter play these past 2 years.
.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Like 5 tops
And many DON'T think so cause MJ was just a better scorer plus JUST as good as lebron on the other end of the court. Lebron is not even the top 10 of all time list....and 12-15 at best, so no, he's NOT close. Like I said, LBJ needs to at least be clearly better than Shaq before getting into the supreme class.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Yeah because it makes sense comparing post players with perimeter wing players
Yea, otherwise we wouldn't have MJ vs KAJ debates
:facepalm

[Dave3]

Seriously, if LeBron was having a very clutch year this year, what could anyone really say?
Taking only the last 12 years into account, it would be about his 2009/2010 level, still below Shaq, not even the best.

Why? Because there isn't that level of dominance every time down the floor that you felt with Shaq. Shaq was going to score, or draw a foul, or put your defense in a terrible position every single time down the floor. LeBron is simply not playing as dominantly. If he was taking 21 shots/game and 10 FTA/game and scoring 31-33 a game, with this play style AND the same clutch level as 2009/2010, then you could argue him over Shaq. Otherwise, he's not as dominant/impactful as him.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Taking only the last 12 years into account, it would be about his 2009/2010 level, still below Shaq, not even the best.

Why? Because there isn't that level of dominance every time down the floor that you felt with Shaq. Shaq was going to score, or draw a foul, or put your defense in a terrible position every single time down the floor. LeBron is simply not playing as dominantly. If he was taking 21 shots/game and 10 FTA/game and scoring 31-33 a game, with this play style AND the same clutch level as 2009/2010, then you could argue him over Shaq. Otherwise, he's not as dominant/impactful as him.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan have better peaks and prime than Lebron, let alone Jordan.

[Derivative]

Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan have better peaks and prime than Lebron, let alone Jordan.

lebron is actually better now in his peak than all those players during those prime. back in the cavs he had bad teammates, and last year he chocked in the finals, doesn't mean his prime isn't better than those players.

[Tenchi Ryu]

This is usually the general consensus of the Top 10 players in NBA history with order subject to change on opinion....But its usually these 10

1. MICHAEL JORDAN
2. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
3. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
4. BILL RUSSELL
5. MAGIC JOHNSON
6. LARRY BIRD
7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
8. SHAQUILLE ONEAL
9. TIM DUNCAN
10. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
Then right under them is where you usually would stick Kobe, Dr. J, Barkley and the likes of them. For Lebron to be close to MJ, he'd AT LEAST need to be a top 3-4 player in NBA history.

[Deuce Bigalow]

lebron is actually better now in his peak than all those players during those prime. back in the cavs he had bad teammates, and last year he chocked in the finals, doesn't mean his prime isn't better than those players.
Those players won MULTIPLE championships in their peak/primes.

[Dave3]

lebron is actually better now in his peak than all those players during those prime. back in the cavs he had bad teammates, and last year he chocked in the finals, doesn't mean his prime isn't better than those players.
Definitely not Hakeem and Shaq. Duncan and Kobe is debatable, and I think yes for both. As for the former 2, no.

I know Shaq for a fact was better because I saw it. I haven't seen Hakeem, but every respectable poster on this board puts him above LeBron/Duncan in their primes. It's not based on my observations, but I'd trust posters like KBlaze/ShaqAttack with that stuff.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is usually the general consensus of the Top 10 players in NBA history with order subject to change on opinion....But its usually these 10

1. MICHAEL JORDAN
2. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
3. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
4. BILL RUSSELL
5. MAGIC JOHNSON
6. LARRY BIRD
7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
8. SHAQUILLE ONEAL
9. TIM DUNCAN
10. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
Then right under them is where you usually would stick Kobe, Dr. J, Barkley and the likes of them. For Lebron to be close to MJ, he'd AT LEAST need to be a top 3-4 player in NBA history.
Give me one reason why Oscar is ahead of Kobe
1 ring as a 2nd option..please

5 time champion with back to back finals MVPs not in the top 10..with a 1 ring guy in his place :facepalm

[Tenchi Ryu]

Give me one reason why Oscar is ahead of Kobe
1 ring as a 2nd option..please
This is not my list...this is just a representation of the usual 10 you hear

[Odinn]

I don't get the part judging LeBron's fg% coz of layups/dunks... So? Shaq didn't have the high post game of DRob or mid-range game of Hakeem. He had an impressive offensive arsenal still but his fg% higher than DRob&Hakeem coz of layups/dunks. Did you criticize Shaq for that?

[Odinn]

lebron is actually better now in his peak than all those players during those prime. back in the cavs he had bad teammates, and last year he chocked in the finals, doesn't mean his prime isn't better than those players.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Come back later when LeBron makes an all-time great title run such as Hakeem's 1995 run, Shaq's 2000 run or Duncan's 2003 run.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I don't get the part judging LeBron's fg% coz of layups/dunks... So? Shaq didn't have the high post game of DRob or mid-range game of Hakeem. He had an impressive offensive arsenal still but his fg% higher than DRob&Hakeem coz of layups/dunks. Did you criticize Shaq for that?
It gets criticism here cause his FG% is the SOLE factor being used to make a VERY bold statement. That's why. And its being put into consideration that MJ's shots were definitely harder and required more talent than the shots Lebron usually takes, so saying the numbers are close is a very flawed way to back-up this very bold statement.

[StateOfMind12]

I don't get the part judging LeBron's fg% coz of layups/dunks... So? Shaq didn't have the high post game of DRob or mid-range game of Hakeem. He had an impressive offensive arsenal still but his fg% higher than DRob&Hakeem coz of layups/dunks. Did you criticize Shaq for that?
Mainly because he gets a lot of those points from transition which are not reliable. In the playoffs, the game slows down and you can't get as many or rely on transition/fast-breaks like you can in the regular season. LeBron doesn't get layups and dunks as easily as Shaq did in his prime.

The best scorer in the league is usually the player who is the best half-court scorer in the league and the best half-court scorer in the league is more times than not the most reliable and the most clutch scorer in the league which is what LeBron is not.


This is usually the general consensus of the Top 10 players in NBA history with order subject to change on opinion....But its usually these 10

1. MICHAEL JORDAN
2. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
3. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
4. BILL RUSSELL
5. MAGIC JOHNSON
6. LARRY BIRD
7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
8. SHAQUILLE ONEAL
9. TIM DUNCAN
10. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
Then right under them is where you usually would stick Kobe, Dr. J, Barkley and the likes of them. For Lebron to be close to MJ, he'd AT LEAST need to be a top 3-4 player in NBA history.Swap Oscar with Kobe. That is the consensus top 10 although that top 10 is always in different order with everybody.

[gengiskhan]

Mainly because he gets a lot of those points from transition which are not reliable. In the playoffs, the game slows down and you can't get as many or rely on transition/fast-breaks like you can in the regular season. LeBron doesn't get layups and dunks as easily as Shaq did in his prime.

The best scorer in the league is usually the player who is the best half-court scorer in the league and the best half-court scorer in the league is more times than not the most reliable and the most clutch scorer in the league which is what LeBron is not.

Swap Oscar with Kobe. That is the consensus top 10 although that top 10 is always in different order with everybody.

dont be a retard.

Oscar will always be above kobe because of having multiple triple double seasons.

Kobe is Top 15 GOAT list above or below Sir Charles.

Kobe is the luckiest great player ever to play in the NBA. Laker franchise. Prime Shaq dominating NBA. etc etc etc

Drexler, Nique, Barkley etc etc never had Kobe's luck or luxuriy.

some retards here need to grow up.

[chazzy]

dont be a retard.

Oscar will always be above kobe because of having multiple triple double seasons.
NO ONE else had multiple triple double seasons, so where do you cap off on how high you rank him?

[gengiskhan]

Give me one reason why Oscar is ahead of Kobe
1 ring as a 2nd option..please

5 time champion with back to back finals MVPs not in the top 10..with a 1 ring guy in his place :facepalm

dont be a retard.

Oscar will always be above kobe because of having multiple triple double Reg seasons.

Oscars first 6-7 reg seasons as sole leader of Bucks were nothing short of Legendary GOAT stuff. Kobe cannot even stand a chance in comparison. MJ & Wilt are only other two.

Kobe is Top 15 GOAT list above or below Sir Charles.

Kobe is the luckiest great player ever to play in the NBA. Laker franchise. Prime Shaq dominating NBA. etc etc etc

Drexler, Nique, Barkley etc etc never had Kobe's luck or luxuriy.

some retards here need to grow up.

Like MJ said "as far as the guards are concern, Kobe is defenitely Top 10 GUARD to ever play"

in terms of GOAT, Kobe will be stacked somewhere 12-15 GOATs.

[gengiskhan]

NO ONE else had multiple triple double seasons, so where do you cap off on how high you rank him?

12th position at highest, best.

but this will be very unfair to Sir Charles who didnt play with dominant big man like Shaq, Hakeem etc etc. Still dominated the game without scoring with just rebounds alone.

Top 10. No way kobe belongs there. only retarded kobe fanboys will look at 81 pts game & put him there.

Top 12. Maybe 50/50

Top 13-15. definitely, this is Kobe's real place in all fairness.

Kobe dont got playoff numbers, PER, efficiency, averages etc etc etc to be in Top 10 GOATs.

[chazzy]

12th position at highest, best.

but this will be very unfair to Sir Charles who didnt play with dominant big man like Shaq, Hakeem etc etc. Still dominated the game without scoring with just rebounds alone.

Top 10. No way kobe belongs there. only retarded kobe fanboys will look at 81 pts game & put him there.

Top 12. Maybe 50/50

Top 13-15. definitely, this is Kobe's real place in all fairness.

Kobe dont got playoff numbers, PER, efficiency, averages etc etc etc to be in Top 10 GOATs.
I was talking about Oscar. If the rationale for putting him above Kobe is because of his triple double seasons, how high can you possibly rank him since no one else has done it either?

[Simple Jack]

Taking only the last 12 years into account, it would be about his 2009/2010 level, still below Shaq, not even the best.

Why? Because there isn't that level of dominance every time down the floor that you felt with Shaq. Shaq was going to score, or draw a foul, or put your defense in a terrible position every single time down the floor. LeBron is simply not playing as dominantly. If he was taking 21 shots/game and 10 FTA/game and scoring 31-33 a game, with this play style AND the same clutch level as 2009/2010, then you could argue him over Shaq. Otherwise, he's not as dominant/impactful as him.

I'm not sure I agree. You could tell in people's reactions to his performances. Dude drops a 35+ point triple double and it's not a big deal anymore. Hell, you see something like 24/7/6 on 48% shooting...and it's subpar. Nothing he does surprises people, even if it's on some historical shit. People just expect him to come out drop 30 points with a near triple double while playing great defense. Anything more isn't surprising and anything less is a disappointment. Crazy expectations that come with good reason.

[Simple Jack]

dont be a retard.

Oscar will always be above kobe because of having multiple triple double Reg seasons.

Oscars first 6-7 reg seasons as sole leader of Bucks were nothing short of Legendary GOAT stuff. Kobe cannot even stand a chance in comparison. MJ & Wilt are only other two.

Kobe is Top 15 GOAT list above or below Sir Charles.

Kobe is the luckiest great player ever to play in the NBA. Laker franchise. Prime Shaq dominating NBA. etc etc etc

Drexler, Nique, Barkley etc etc never had Kobe's luck or luxuriy.

some retards here need to grow up.

Like MJ said "as far as the guards are concern, Kobe is defenitely Top 10 GUARD to ever play"

in terms of GOAT, Kobe will be stacked somewhere 12-15 GOATs.


:facepalm

Kobe is most certainly a top 10 player of all-time. There is absolutely no way you can make a case that there are 14 players better than Kobe, let alone 11 or 12.

[StateOfMind12]

I'm not sure I agree. You could tell in people's reactions to his performances. Dude drops a 35+ point triple double and it's not a big deal anymore. Hell, you see something like 24/7/6 on 48% shooting...and it's subpar. Nothing he does surprises people, even if it's on some historical shit. People just expect him to come out drop 30 points with a near triple double while playing great defense. Anything more isn't surprising and anything less is a disappointment. Crazy expectations that come with good reason.
It has to do with the fact that it is the regular season and nobody cares what he does in the regular season anymore because people have already seen it. People will only be amazed if he does in the post-season specifically in the Finals. LeBron can only lose and get criticized for right now in the regular season and nothing else. He is simply in a lose-lose situation right now.

He might be able to tame it or cool it down in the regular season but it won't shut anyone up for good until the post-season or the Finals come.

Stephen A. Smith has said this a million times since the Finals so I'm sure he will vouch for me on this one.

[Dave3]

I'm not sure I agree. You could tell in people's reactions to his performances. Dude drops a 35+ point triple double and it's not a big deal anymore. Hell, you see something like 24/7/6 on 48% shooting...and it's subpar. Nothing he does surprises people, even if it's on some historical shit. People just expect him to come out drop 30 points with a near triple double while playing great defense. Anything more isn't surprising and anything less is a disappointment. Crazy expectations that come with good reason.
The thing is though, 7 assists and 8 rebounds aren't as dominant as looking to score every time down the floor. That just always tenses up the defense if you're perpetually punishing them. Now, I'm not saying he does this instead of spreading the ball around as well, because then he'll become too predictable. If he keeps it at 6 assists and 8 rebounds, but with a more aggressive demeanor taking 22 shots every game, then I can say he's close to the dominance of someone like Shaq.

His 35 point triple double not being a big deal shows he's great sure, but it doesn't necessarily indicate relativity to other players. Hell, I'm sure Shaq in 2000/2001 getting 35/15 with 4 blocks wasn't a big deal other. It's just more impactful as a player though to be aggressive. Everything you're talking about reflects how dominant he is compared to his current peers, not necessarily to past greats.

[CardiacKemba]

It has to do with the fact that it is the regular season and nobody cares what he does in the regular season anymore because people have already seen it. People will only be amazed if he does in the post-season specifically in the Finals. LeBron can only lose and get criticized for right now in the regular season and nothing else. He is simply in a lose-lose situation right now.

He might be able to tame it or cool it down in the regular season but it won't shut anyone up for good until the post-season or the Finals come.

Stephen A. Smith has said this a million times since the Finals so I'm sure he will vouch for me on this one.

This.

[BGriffin's Dad]

:facepalm

Kobe is most certainly a top 10 player of all-time. There is absolutely no way you can make a case that there are 14 players better than Kobe, let alone 11 or 12.

are you being sarcastic? thought you were extremely anti-kobe and pro-hanging on lebron's nuts :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

He is having high fg % because of cherry picking, breakaway dunks. That's the benefit of playing with 2 top 15 players.

2 top 15 players ? Surely we're not ranking Wade nor Bosh top 15 of all time but only of this decade. Right?

So then where did Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, Harper, and Rodman rank during their seasons with Jordan?

[jrong]

I don't get the part judging LeBron's fg% coz of layups/dunks... So? Shaq didn't have the high post game of DRob or mid-range game of Hakeem. He had an impressive offensive arsenal still but his fg% higher than DRob&Hakeem coz of layups/dunks. Did you criticize Shaq for that?

Those are centers. They're supposed to shoot around 60%.

Like it or not, the scoring opportunities that 2012 LeBron gets are simply not equivalent to what prime MJ was getting. One area where advanced stats fall short is that they don't distinguish between ease of shot (some account for type/distance of shot, but not how easy the shot is). And I just about watched every nationally televised game Jordan played in his career, and he simply was not getting the kind of scoring opportunities that LBJ is getting this year.

I also think that Wade-to-LeBron scores as well as LeBron-to-Wade scores are to an extent a special category. Both Wade and LeBron can not only make finishes off of passes that 99% of other players can't make, but the passes that lead to these finishes, the majority of players can't make either.

And I'm not just talking about lobs, but also passes in traffic, not to mention, the accompanying mention catches-and-finishes. It's like they run their own two-person all-star-game every night. The same great pass thrown to James by Wade, or vice-versa, if thrown to Joel Anthony is a terrible pass. Well, MJ never had a partner like that. Scottie could go up and finish an oop, but he wasn't the finisher Wade is. And, this will be controversial but shouldn't be if you actually watch-- Scottie couldn't make the same type of passes either.

The real difference, however, is that MJ never played with an offensive player like Wade. Since February, approximately when Wade returned, James has averaged 26 ppg on 55% FGs to Wade's 24 ppg on 54% FGs.

Pippen was never within the same timezone as Jordan in offensive production, and as a result he never made the game easier for Mike in the same way that Wade does for James. James gets open looks because teams will double Wade. Of course, Wade gets open shots because of doubles on James too, but the point is when did Jordan EVER get simple looks because the defense was loaded up on Scottie or another teammate? It never happened.

[Rnbizzle]

Those are centers. They're supposed to shoot around 60%.

Like it or not, the scoring opportunities that 2012 LeBron gets are simply not equivalent to what prime MJ was getting. One area where advanced stats fall short is that they don't distinguish between ease of shot (some account for type/distance of shot, but not how easy the shot is). And I just about watched every nationally televised game Jordan played in his career, and he simply was not getting the kind of scoring opportunities that LBJ is getting this year.

I also think that Wade-to-LeBron scores as well as LeBron-to-Wade scores are to an extent a special category. Both Wade and LeBron can not only make finishes off of passes that 99% of other players can't make, but the passes that lead to these finishes, the majority of players can't make either.

And I'm not just talking about lobs, but also passes in traffic, not to mention, the accompanying mention catches-and-finishes. It's like they run their own two-person all-star-game every night. The same great pass thrown to James by Wade, or vice-versa, if thrown to Joel Anthony is a terrible pass. Well, MJ never had a partner like that. Scottie could go up and finish an oop, but he wasn't the finisher Wade is. And, this will be controversial but shouldn't be if you actually watch-- Scottie couldn't make the same type of passes either.

The real difference, however, is that MJ never played with an offensive player like Wade. Since February, approximately when Wade returned, James has averaged 26 ppg on 55% FGs to Wade's 24 ppg on 54% FGs.

Pippen was never within the same timezone as Jordan in offensive production, and as a result he never made the game easier for Mike in the same way that Wade does for James. James gets open looks because teams will double Wade. Of course, Wade gets open shots because of doubles on James too, but the point is when did Jordan EVER get simple looks because the defense was loaded up on Scottie or another teammate? It never happened.
This part is just ridiculous. You are playing a basketball game. You want to win it, in order to do so, you need buckets. If Lebron is fast as hell and can get a couple of easy fastbreak points, why hold that against him? Also, people are arguing he cherry picks. Lebron is also one of the best rebounding SF's in the NBA, how does that add up? Wade and James score a lot in breaks because they are insanely fast up and down the court, not because they hang around at the other teams basket.. :facepalm

[Odinn]

This part is just ridiculous. You are playing a basketball game. You want to win it, in order to do so, you need buckets. If Lebron is fast as hell and can get a couple of easy fastbreak points, why hold that against him? Also, people are arguing he cherry picks. Lebron is also one of the best rebounding SF's in the NBA, how does that add up? Wade and James score a lot in breaks because they are insanely fast up and down the court, not because they hang around at the other teams basket.. :facepalm
:cheers: :cheers:

[Asukal]

Peak for peak I'd take Jordan any day and I don't even need to explain why. Lebron is playing a monster season I'd give him that. :cheers:

[chips93]

I'm not sure I agree. You could tell in people's reactions to his performances. Dude drops a 35+ point triple double and it's not a big deal anymore. Hell, you see something like 24/7/6 on 48% shooting...and it's subpar. Nothing he does surprises people, even if it's on some historical shit. People just expect him to come out drop 30 points with a near triple double while playing great defense. Anything more isn't surprising and anything less is a disappointment. Crazy expectations that come with good reason.

well thats because he has been putting up monster stats for years now, with many dissapointing post-seasons, thats why people may be underwhelmed by his amazing play in the regular season

its because lebron cant prove anything, really, until the post season.

[jrong]

This part is just ridiculous. You are playing a basketball game. You want to win it, in order to do so, you need buckets. If Lebron is fast as hell and can get a couple of easy fastbreak points, why hold that against him? Also, people are arguing he cherry picks. Lebron is also one of the best rebounding SF's in the NBA, how does that add up? Wade and James score a lot in breaks because they are insanely fast up and down the court, not because they hang around at the other teams basket.. :facepalm

What jumps out at you about LeBron's statline this year? 28/8/7-- pretty standard stuff for him. It's the 55% FGs that are eye-popping. After "coincidentally" setting his career shooting high in his first year with the Heat, he's now raised it by four more pct points to 55%.

So what accounts for the difference? This season, it's not his perimeter shot. He's 39% from 16' to 23' as opposed to 45% last year.

What he has elevated is his at-the-rim finishes from 72% to 78%. Even more importantly, his percentage of assisted at-the-rim FGs jumped from 38% to 49%.

This tracks with what we see in games: LBJ gets a lot of uncontested dunks and lay-ups. But, why is this number important?

Well, one thing we're doing here is comparing Jordan and James as scorers/ efficient shooters. Basically, we're asking the question, is LeBron this year better than MJ ever was at putting the ball in the basket?

So, if we're going to try to make an even comparison, it makes sense to apply context and determine whether they are each getting the same approximate scoring chances or, for instance, if one or the other of them is getting fed a lot more "free points." In this case, that is the case, and it's James who is definitely the greater beneficiary.

[bwink23]

What jumps out at you about LeBron's statline this year? 28/8/7-- pretty standard stuff for him. It's the 55% FGs that are eye-popping. After "coincidentally" setting his career shooting high in his first year with the Heat, he's now raised it by four more pct points to 55%.

So what accounts for the difference? This season, it's not his perimeter shot. He's 39% from 16' to 23' as opposed to 45% last year.

What he has elevated is his at-the-rim finishes from 72% to 78%. Even more importantly, his percentage of assisted at-the-rim FGs jumped from 38% to 49%.

This tracks with what we see in games: LBJ gets a lot of uncontested dunks and lay-ups. But, why is this number important?

Well, one thing we're doing here is comparing Jordan and James as scorers/ efficient shooters. Basically, we're asking the question, is LeBron this year better than MJ ever was at putting the ball in the basket?

So, if we're going to try to make an even comparison, it makes sense to apply context and determine whether they are each getting the same approximate scoring chances or, for instance, if one or the other of them is getting fed a lot more "free points." In this case, that is the case, and it's James who is definitely the greater beneficiary.


So how you gonna go ahead and use statistics on one side, and just give the "eye ball" test on the other???

[jrong]

So how you gonna go ahead and use statistics on one side, and just give the "eye ball" test on the other???

Do you know of a site that supplies this kind of detailed breakdown for retired players? Hoopdata only provides it for active players.

[chips93]

So what accounts for the difference? This season, it's not his perimeter shot. He's 39% from 16' to 23' as opposed to 45% last year.

What he has elevated is his at-the-rim finishes from 72% to 78%. Even more importantly, his percentage of assisted at-the-rim FGs jumped from 38% to 49%.

This tracks with what we see in games: LBJ gets a lot of uncontested dunks and lay-ups. But, why is this number important?

Well, one thing we're doing here is comparing Jordan and James as scorers/ efficient shooters. Basically, we're asking the question, is LeBron this year better than MJ ever was at putting the ball in the basket?


so what you're saying, is that lebron is great at cutting to the basket and getting easy assists for his teammates?

gotcha

[BlueandGold]

Tip: when your trying to troll at least make a thread that is semi-feasible to believe.

Seeing how's Jordan's prime and peak were better than both Wilt's and Shaq's (two of the greatest peaks of all time), I don't see how Lebron is even in the discussion.

[pauk]

Not sure.... what i am sure about tho is that those two are the most talented, productive/efficient, dominant perimeter individual players ever imo

[Anaximandro1]

Wake me up when the playoffs start

:sleeping

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not sure.... what i am sure about tho is that those two are the most talented, productive/efficient, dominant perimeter individual players ever imo

Jordan was easily better, cut the bullshit.

[rodman91]

Lebron's dominating this season. Both 27 years old. Who was better?
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff480/SeattleIsFullOpodPpl/Film%20Scene%20GiFs/MaxCadyLaughinginCapeFearGiF.gif

[LEFT4DEAD]

Why are you all acting like Jordan was straight out of another planet? I mean, cmon, look at those numbers. There is barely some difference, except Lebron is incredibly efficient. You Jordan stans are acting sometimes almost as Kobe' homers. Dont act like Jordan was the best in everything. Is he the best shotblocker among SGs? No, Wade is. Is he the best stealer among SG's? No, there are many guys who were better. Has he had ones of best seasons statistically of all times? Yeah, sure, but there are lot of guys with similiar numbers. Why cant you agree just on that? Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.

[Da_Realist]

A lot of stat watchers in here. Is there anybody here that actually saw Jordan in 91 think Lebron is as good?

[rodman91]

Is Lebron better than Larry Bird at his peak this season? NO.

[Collie]

Why are you all acting like Jordan was straight out of another planet? I mean, cmon, look at those numbers. There is barely some difference, except Lebron is incredibly efficient. You Jordan stans are acting sometimes almost as Kobe' homers. Dont act like Jordan was the best in everything. Is he the best shotblocker among SGs? No, Wade is. Is he the best stealer among SG's? No, there are many guys who were better. Has he had ones of best seasons statistically of all times? Yeah, sure, but there are lot of guys with similiar numbers. Why cant you agree just on that? Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.

Because he isn't

[BlueandGold]

Why are you all acting like Jordan was straight out of another planet? I mean, cmon, look at those numbers. There is barely some difference, except Lebron is incredibly efficient. You Jordan stans are acting sometimes almost as Kobe' homers. Dont act like Jordan was the best in everything. Is he the best shotblocker among SGs? No, Wade is. Is he the best stealer among SG's? No, there are many guys who were better. Has he had ones of best seasons statistically of all times? Yeah, sure, but there are lot of guys with similiar numbers. Why cant you agree just on that? Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.
No one's acting like that, what people are acting like is that Jordan is leaps and bounds better than Lebron and it's not just numbers. Jordan is a straight up killer, if i had to bet on a basketball game to save my life I would clearly pick Jordan and so would you.

Only ISH Lebron-stans/statistic fanatics will say otherwise, which is why this thread is so :facepalm.

[TheMan]

:facepalm


Kobe....


Anyway, I'll take LeBron over Jordan.
Only you and a few more LBJ fans would do that, the rest of the sane NBA world would take MJ over LBJ:oldlol:

[BarberSchool]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.

[LakersReign]

Why are you all acting like Jordan was straight out of another planet? I mean, cmon, look at those numbers. There is barely some difference, except Lebron is incredibly efficient. You Jordan stans are acting sometimes almost as Kobe' homers. Dont act like Jordan was the best in everything. Is he the best shotblocker among SGs? No, Wade is. Is he the best stealer among SG's? No, there are many guys who were better. Has he had ones of best seasons statistically of all times? Yeah, sure, but there are lot of guys with similiar numbers. Why cant you agree just on that? Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.

This is real funny coming from a Lebronyte, who acts like Lebron is from another planet and has no flaws whatsoever. Which is exactly why whenever his faults get pointed out, you come up with ludicrous excuses to play them off, each and every single time. Jordan fans can admit to Jordan's faults, same thing with Kobe fans. Lebronytes CAN'T, which is why you guys can compare him to Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc, all you want to. But no one will ever take you fools seriously until you stop acting like Lebron is so perfect.

[BlueandGold]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.
In all fairness he would have to do that for the next three seasons to even garner any type of comparison with Jordan.

[Tenchi Ryu]

This is usually the general consensus of the Top 10 players in NBA history with order subject to change on opinion....But its usually these 10

1. MICHAEL JORDAN
2. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
3. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
4. BILL RUSSELL
5. MAGIC JOHNSON
6. LARRY BIRD
7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
8. SHAQUILLE ONEAL
9. TIM DUNCAN
10. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
Then right under them is where you usually would stick Kobe, Dr. J, Barkley and the likes of them. For Lebron to be close to MJ, he'd AT LEAST need to be a top 3-4 player in NBA history.

Lebron needs to AT LEAST be a UNDISPUTED Better player than Shaq, Timmy and Hakeem, otherwise, its dumb as hell even trying to start this argument.

[jlip]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.


When did MJ ever post those numbers for an entire postseason during a championship run?

[Indian guy]

He's playing about as well as 2009 and 2010, with the exception of his passiveness in the 4th.

This is what I don't get. You admit to him being a bad 4th qtr player(and make no mistake, he's BAD), but somehow he's still playing as well as '09 and '10? '09 and '10 LeBron led the league in 4th qtr points. '12 LeBron wants no part of the ball in the 4th. So how is he playing as well??

[SpecialQue]

Yes, Lebron is a much better player than Jordan.


























:milton

[Indian guy]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.

:facepalm

And then you have morons like these on the other side of spectrum.

If LeBron produces those numbers, he'd be the GOAT, not someone who would have "earned" a comparison to MJ.

[RRR3]

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

No, he's not. :facepalm Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is having a great season, but he's not as good as Jordan, much less better than him. :banghead:

[Rnbizzle]

:facepalm

And then you have morons like these on the other side of spectrum.

If LeBron produces those numbers, he'd be the GOAT, not someone who would have "earned" a comparison to MJ.
Exactly.

[Tenchi Ryu]

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

No, he's not. :facepalm Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is having a great season, but he's not as good as Jordan, much less better than him. :banghead:
Exactly, now if the thread was "is Lebron having a SEASON as good or better than Jordan", THEN we could have some discussion. But to basically say this one season makes him equal or better than Jordan is just :facepalm

[InfiniteBaskets]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.

I must have have not watched the playoffs during which Kobe averaged 35 and 8, while shooting 55%, but we have Kobe VS Mj comparisons all the time.

Kobe's best PPG from playoffs to date: 32.1 in 02-03 season
Best APG from playoffs to date: 6.1 in the 00-01 season.
Kobe's best FG% in playoffs to date: 49.7% in 05-06 season.

[TheMan]

I started watching the NBA in the mid 80s, I was forunate enough to have watched prime Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and now LeBron.

In terms of dominance I'll go

1A MJ
1B Shaq

2 Bird/Magic (they cancelled each out)
3 Hakeem
4 Duncan/Kobe

These players' peak were something to witness but MJ/Shaq are are in a class by themselves in terms of pure dominance, Jordan had a longer peak but with Shaq there was a sense of hopelessness when it came to facing him, YOU knew he was going to get his and his one weakness was FTs, that's why I put MJ slightly ahead of Shaq.


Anyone who saw Shaq knows what I'm talking about...LBJ isn't on that level of dominance, once LBJ gets that aura of invincibility like the players I mentioned above, that sense of no matter what you did, you are gonna lose to LBJ, if and when he gets there, we'll talk...LBJ isn't there, yet...and it's not a given, no matter what his fanboys says, that he'll get there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2011 Finals
Jason Terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

and you're asking if he's better than Peak Jordan?

http://ajsupreme.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mj-laughing1.gif

[Legends66NBA7]

This is usually the general consensus of the Top 10 players in NBA history with order subject to change on opinion....But its usually these 10

1. MICHAEL JORDAN
2. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
3. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
4. BILL RUSSELL
5. MAGIC JOHNSON
6. LARRY BIRD
7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
8. SHAQUILLE ONEAL
9. TIM DUNCAN
10. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
Then right under them is where you usually would stick Kobe, Dr. J, Barkley and the likes of them. For Lebron to be close to MJ, he'd AT LEAST need to be a top 3-4 player in NBA history.

I don't see Oscar that high.

Infact, the most recent lists I've seen is Kobe in there instead of Oscar. I think I've seen more with Jerry West over Oscar.

[I<3NBA]

no one can ever be better than Jordan. Lebron is lucky some idiots are comparing him to Jordan. Kobe is lucky he can even smell Jordan's fart from 30 miles. Lebron and Kobe are close, but Jordan and everyone else aren't. No one can touch Jordan. if there is such a person, that person hasn't been born yet.

[OldSchoolBBall]

No, he's not. I don't think he's particularly close, either, despite what certain numbers may say. Don't get me wrong - he's the closest a perimeter player has been to MJ in terms of overall impact (above or tied with peak Kobe), but he's only about 90-95% of MJ peak vs. peak.

[LEFT4DEAD]

This is real funny coming from a Lebronyte, who acts like Lebron is from another planet and has no flaws whatsoever. Which is exactly why whenever his faults get pointed out, you come up with ludicrous excuses to play them off, each and every single time. Jordan fans can admit to Jordan's faults, same thing with Kobe fans. Lebronytes CAN'T, which is why you guys can compare him to Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc, all you want to. But no one will ever take you fools seriously until you stop acting like Lebron is so perfect.
Lebron James till 27 or Jordan before he was 27. Who you got? Why dont you compare their accomplishments and tell me. Jordan was not able to win till Pippen came and was considered as fail just like Lebron today. What is the excuse there? Acting like Jordan had no flaws in his game and was so much better than anyone who came in this league is insane I tell you.

Lebron has flaws, more than Jordan had probably, but we are comparing this season's Lebron with peak Jordan and you are saying there is such big difference. :no:

[cteach111]

No, he's not. I don't think he's particularly close, either, despite what certain numbers may say. Don't get me wrong - he's the closest a perimeter player has been to MJ in terms of overall impact (above or tied with peak Kobe), but he's only about 90-95% of MJ peak vs. peak.

so you don't think he's close, yet he's 95% of MJ's peak :wtf:

[OldSchoolBBall]

so you don't think he's close, yet he's 95% of MJ's peak :wtf:

Not really 95%, no, but if I say something like 90-93% it looks stupid(er). A 5-8% difference with players at this level is significant imo.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This part is just ridiculous. You are playing a basketball game. You want to win it, in order to do so, you need buckets. If Lebron is fast as hell and can get a couple of easy fastbreak points, why hold that against him? Also, people are arguing he cherry picks. Lebron is also one of the best rebounding SF's in the NBA, how does that add up? Wade and James score a lot in breaks because they are insanely fast up and down the court, not because they hang around at the other teams basket.. :facepalm

Sorry, but Lebron and Wade aren't much faster down court, if at all, than MJ/Pippen were: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysHGJTU1fo&feature=plcp&context=C4ba3f36VDvjVQa1PpcFOZ_DJWdamreg6qADHQ2yZc r0GRDO0zn3g%3D#t=1m38s. What jrong is saying about how Wade's game affects Lebron's efficiency, and about the Heat's transition game, is certainly true.

[sbw19]

95% of all winning is achieved by only 5% of the players. They don’t just hope to win – the winners are convinced they will finish first. The only thing that separates the winners from the rest is the way they think. Winners expect to win and if you don’t have this expectation then you have no chance of winning.

- Larry Bassham -- (Olympic Champion) 2007

___

All legends share this particular quality, and this is what LeBron needs to work on the most right now.

[Soundwave]

No. Heat would run away with the no.1 seed in the NBA if they had Jordan + Wade + Bosh.

You might as well just give them the championship now, that wouldn't be fair to the other teams.

[donald_trump]

its stupid to compare right now. if lebron goes on to win 4+ rings, then people will look back at this season and his others and look at it as a close comparison if not better.

now, that he hasnt won anything, and we're not sure he'll win this year? he's not going to get that praise as better even if he in fact is.

[Ruutu]

its stupid to compare right now. if lebron goes on to win 4+ rings, then people will look back at this season and his others and look at it as a close comparison if not better.

now, that he hasnt won anything, and we're not sure he'll win this year? he's not going to get that praise as better even if he in fact is.

CS

[BarberSchool]

If LeBron averages 35.5ppg, 8apg, and shoots 55% this post-season, all while forcing the other team's best player into averaging 4-5TO per game, during a dominant playoff run which results in a championship, then we can even begin to talk about comparison. Until then, STFU kindly.


In all fairness he would have to do that for the next three seasons to even garner any type of comparison with Jordan.

You're right. I apologize.


I must have have not watched the playoffs during which Kobe averaged 35 and 8, while shooting 55%, but we have Kobe VS Mj comparisons all the time.

Kobe's best PPG from playoffs to date: 32.1 in 02-03 season
Best APG from playoffs to date: 6.1 in the 00-01 season.
Kobe's best FG% in playoffs to date: 49.7% in 05-06 season.Which is why people like me always sh!t on Kobestans making such comparisons. Kobe is very similar in style, and mildly similar in drive, all else he falls rather short.



2011 Finals
Jason Terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

and you're asking if he's better than Peak Jordan?

http://ajsupreme.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mj-laughing1.gif

[Lebron23]

its stupid to compare right now. if lebron goes on to win 4+ rings, then people will look back at this season and his others and look at it as a close comparison if not better.

now, that he hasnt won anything, and we're not sure he'll win this year? he's not going to get that praise as better even if he in fact is.


This

You are one of the smartest posters in this forum.

[Simple Jack]

are you being sarcastic? thought you were extremely anti-kobe and pro-hanging on lebron's nuts :lol

I've never been anti-kobe. I just find Kobe trolls who post negative shit in every thread annoying. Doesn't make Kobe any less great than he is though.

[NugzHeat3]

No, he's not.

Forget Jordan, he's not even as good as he was in 2009 or 2010.

[SpecialQue]

If Lebron wins some rings, especially if he's able to knock off a few in a row, people will start putting near Jordan. If he can somehow get four in a row, something that hasn't been done since Russell, I'm pretty sure some people will put him above Jordan.

I'm not one of them, but let's be realistic here. Lebron's career is fvcking ridiculous for a player right out of high school. I think people are rating Lebron as a person over Lebron as a professional basketball player. Jordan was one of the slimiest pieces of shit to ever play professional sports, yet people have no problem whatsoever deifying him. Why the double standard with Lebron? The "Decision" argument is already getting old.

Keep in mind, I'm a Laker fan and personally hope Lebron never gets a ring, but if he does? Who gives a shit? My ego and life doesn't hang on whether or not people put Lebron above Kobe in their GOAT rankings.

[Optimus Prime]

Only kids trolling Internet forums think comparing LeBron to MJ is a reasonable argument. It is not. MJ is astronomically better and it is not even close. Anyone who has watched both and knows anything about basketball knows it is not even close. Period. End of story.

[Lebron23]

I love to see LeBron wins an NBA Finals MVP at 27 yrs.old. Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at 28.

[Da_Realist]

If he was as good as 91 Jordan, we'd already know it. We wouldn't need to "wait and see". Jordan was already as good a player as anyone had ever seen before he won a title. Winning championships was needed to confirm he was as good of a WINNER.

There were people saying he was the greatest in the late 80's and those rumblings kept getting louder every year after that. It's not a retroactive thing. If you gotta wait until he wins 3 titles to declare him better than Jordan, then he never was.

[Rnbizzle]

The fact that this is being discussed right now, actually says a lot about Lebron, whether his haters like to admit it or not.

[guy]

Why are you all acting like Jordan was straight out of another planet? I mean, cmon, look at those numbers. There is barely some difference, except Lebron is incredibly efficient. You Jordan stans are acting sometimes almost as Kobe' homers. Dont act like Jordan was the best in everything. Is he the best shotblocker among SGs? No, Wade is. Is he the best stealer among SG's? No, there are many guys who were better. Has he had ones of best seasons statistically of all times? Yeah, sure, but there are lot of guys with similiar numbers. Why cant you agree just on that? Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.

Tell us how Wade is undisputably a better shotblocker then Jordan, who and how are there many other SGs who were undisputably better at steals then Jordan, and how Lebron is undisputably having an equal season to Jordan's best?

Jordan is very arguably and probably is the greatest shotblocking guard ever, the greatest SG at steals ever, and has had the greatest season ever. Its not that people can't admit he isn't. Its that there's not necessarily anything like that to admit. He has probably the strongest case in history for all of that. I have a hard time thinking that anyone who has a problem with that ever watched him play pre-first retirement.

[chazzy]

Great posts jrong.

Is Lebron having better or at least same season as peak Jordan? Sure he is having. Why is it so hard to admit? Damn.
He's not though, and that's what everyone is saying in this thread

[NugzHeat3]

Those are centers. They're supposed to shoot around 60%.

Like it or not, the scoring opportunities that 2012 LeBron gets are simply not equivalent to what prime MJ was getting. One area where advanced stats fall short is that they don't distinguish between ease of shot (some account for type/distance of shot, but not how easy the shot is). And I just about watched every nationally televised game Jordan played in his career, and he simply was not getting the kind of scoring opportunities that LBJ is getting this year.

I also think that Wade-to-LeBron scores as well as LeBron-to-Wade scores are to an extent a special category. Both Wade and LeBron can not only make finishes off of passes that 99% of other players can't make, but the passes that lead to these finishes, the majority of players can't make either.

And I'm not just talking about lobs, but also passes in traffic, not to mention, the accompanying mention catches-and-finishes. It's like they run their own two-person all-star-game every night. The same great pass thrown to James by Wade, or vice-versa, if thrown to Joel Anthony is a terrible pass. Well, MJ never had a partner like that. Scottie could go up and finish an oop, but he wasn't the finisher Wade is. And, this will be controversial but shouldn't be if you actually watch-- Scottie couldn't make the same type of passes either.

The real difference, however, is that MJ never played with an offensive player like Wade. Since February, approximately when Wade returned, James has averaged 26 ppg on 55% FGs to Wade's 24 ppg on 54% FGs.

Pippen was never within the same timezone as Jordan in offensive production, and as a result he never made the game easier for Mike in the same way that Wade does for James. James gets open looks because teams will double Wade. Of course, Wade gets open shots because of doubles on James too, but the point is when did Jordan EVER get simple looks because the defense was loaded up on Scottie or another teammate? It never happened.

What jumps out at you about LeBron's statline this year? 28/8/7-- pretty standard stuff for him. It's the 55% FGs that are eye-popping. After "coincidentally" setting his career shooting high in his first year with the Heat, he's now raised it by four more pct points to 55%.

So what accounts for the difference? This season, it's not his perimeter shot. He's 39% from 16' to 23' as opposed to 45% last year.

What he has elevated is his at-the-rim finishes from 72% to 78%. Even more importantly, his percentage of assisted at-the-rim FGs jumped from 38% to 49%.

This tracks with what we see in games: LBJ gets a lot of uncontested dunks and lay-ups. But, why is this number important?

Well, one thing we're doing here is comparing Jordan and James as scorers/ efficient shooters. Basically, we're asking the question, is LeBron this year better than MJ ever was at putting the ball in the basket?

So, if we're going to try to make an even comparison, it makes sense to apply context and determine whether they are each getting the same approximate scoring chances or, for instance, if one or the other of them is getting fed a lot more "free points." In this case, that is the case, and it's James who is definitely the greater beneficiary.
Great posts explaining the difference between their scoring efficiency.

[Lebron23]

Just lock thread. LBJ will win his first NBA title this year.

[Da_Realist]

Great posts explaining the difference between their scoring efficiency.

I agree. Must have missed it earlier, but great posts jrong.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Just as an aside, I happened to be looking at MJ's 2003 season stats on 82games.com and noticed that he was finishing 64% of his "inside" shots and 60+% of his "close" shots...at age 40. Compare that to Wade this year, who is finishing on 64% of his "inside" shots and 59+% for "close" shots (of course, Wade' number of attempts inside/close is much higher, so it isn't apples to apples). This, despite MJ playing in a league where it was harder to get into the lane or get a good look off inside (handchecking allows defenders to angle offensive players into worse shots), and a league where there were more/better shotblockers and a more crowded lane (no 3-second rule leaving the paint wide open as it is many times nowadays), as well as being on bum knees with little lift.

What this tells me is that prime Jordan (age 24-30) must have been a MONSTROUSLY good finisher inside (not that we didn't know, but still). I would LOVE to see his interior completion percentage from '87-'93.

[Dave3]

This is what I don't get. You admit to him being a bad 4th qtr player(and make no mistake, he's BAD), but somehow he's still playing as well as '09 and '10? '09 and '10 LeBron led the league in 4th qtr points. '12 LeBron wants no part of the ball in the 4th. So how is he playing as well??
??

In every single one of my posts I say "with the exception of his 4th quarter play from before" and explain that that is what's holding him back from being as good as '09 and '10. I never said he's as good as the, only that he would be if he was more aggressive down the stretch.

Oh, and the guy you're calling "BAD" in the 4th is averaging 6 ppg on 49/35/78 in the 4th in only 8 minutes/4th quarter. His stats are highly skewed because he sits out large parts of 4th quarters (with 5-10 minutes left) if the team is blowing another team out. That's 27 ppg/per 36 in the 4th. It's not up to his actual stats or his standards from '09 and '10, but it's hardly as horrible as people are making it seem. In the last couple of games he's looked more poised in the 4th. Even in Atlanta when he did shy away at the end, he started off not bad, and scored 6 of Miami's 9 points in the 4th up until the 6 minute mark or something to take the lead. Again, hardly usual LeBronesque-ness, but also hardly "BAD."

[LakersReign]

Lebron James till 27 or Jordan before he was 27. Who you got? Why dont you compare their accomplishments and tell me. Jordan was not able to win till Pippen came and was considered as fail just like Lebron today. What is the excuse there? Acting like Jordan had no flaws in his game and was so much better than anyone who came in this league is insane I tell you.

Lebron has flaws, more than Jordan had probably, but we are comparing this season's Lebron with peak Jordan and you are saying there is such big difference. :no:

Keep reaching all you want to, but the fact is Jordan had more championship than Lebron with the same years in the NBA. Comparing this prime and that prime is just a backdoor way for you Lebronytes to try to bring Lebron into a conversation he clearly has no business being in.


The fact that this is being discussed right now, actually says a lot about Lebron, whether his haters like to admit it or not.

Just stop. The only reason he's "in the conversation" in the first place, is cuz Lebronytes insist on trying to put him there, when there's really no basis for him to be there. "Oh well Jordan won his first title when he was 28, so Lebron has time." Oh well, statistically, Lebron and Jordan are very similar." forgetting that outside of that, they truly have nothing in common. It's like trying to compare a cat to a dog, and saying they're the same simply cuz they're both animals and both have 4 legs. Most people who know better are gonna say something. Same applies here.

[REACTION]

I love to see LeBron wins an NBA Finals MVP at 27 yrs.old. Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at 28.

Comparing them by age is useless because they entered the league at different ages. You have compare them by seasons.


LeBron is playing in his 9th season and has yet to win a ring. Jordan won his first in his 7th season.
Jordan won his first Finals MVP in his 7th season. LeBron has yet to do so in his 9th.
Jordan won his first scoring title in his 3rd season. LeBron in his 5th.
Jordan won his first MVP in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.
Jordan made his first All-Star Team in his 1st season. LeBron in his 2nd.
Jordan made his first All-Defensive First Team in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.


Jordan

1984-85 - First All-Star Team
1985-86 -
1986-87 - First Scoring Title, First All-NBA First Team
1987-88 - First MVP, First DPOY, First All-Defensive 1st Team
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - First Championship, First FMVP, Second MVP
1991-92 - Second FMVP, Third MVP
1992-93 - Third FMVP
1993-94 -
1994-95 -
1995-96 - Fourth FMVP, Fourth MVP
1996-97 - Fifth FMVP
1997-98 - Sixth FMVP, Fifth MVP

LeBron

2003-04 -
2004-05 - First All-Star Team
2005-06 - First All-NBA 1st Team
2006-07 -
2007-08 - First Scoring Title
2008-09 - First MVP, First All-Defensive 1st Team
2009-10 - Second MVP
2010-11 -
2011-12 -

LeBron is a great talent, but Jordan was far more accomplished by his 9th season.

[SwooshReturns]

There were people saying he was the greatest in the late 80's and those rumblings kept getting louder every year after that. It's not a retroactive thing. If you gotta wait until he wins 3 titles to declare him better than Jordan, then he never was.
Dude, he's 9 years deep. MJ 9 years deep was about to win his 3rd straight ring. LeBron is 0-2 in the Finals. Losing one of them with a cast more talented than the opposition, and more talented than any cast MJ every played with and he was in his "prime" .... the comparison is over.

[SwooshReturns]

Playing 1 on 1 must have been a great benefit for Jordan. Too bad LeBron doesn't have that luxury.
You can't be this dumb. MJ faced constant doubles. And traps and nuanced layers of defense. There is no true zone defense in the NBA. And even if there was, if you're explosive enough off the ball, it wouldn't matter. LeBron hasn't been able to take people consistently off the dribble in the half court since 2010. That's why his numbers suffer in the playoffs when the game slows down, it's half court basketball and he doesn't get easy run out dunks.

LeBron still gets plenty of ISO situations. He just can't capitalize as well on them anymore because he doesn't have the ability to do so. You mean to tell me he's facing constant doubles and triples while he's playing along side Wade, Bosh, Battier, and Chalmers? LOL ... your homerism knows no bounds.

MJ could still do what he wanted with the defender, off the dribble, in the post or otherwise at a championship level scoring close to 30 ppg as a 35 year old.

:oldlol:

[Mr. Incredible]

No.

But he's up there.

[Owl]

They didn't let teenage children come out of High School back then for a reason.
Not sure what "teenage children" means, presumably all teenagers were children of someone but seems entirely redundant. Also inacurate so far as I am aware, the NBA never had a ban on leaping from high school after the Spencer Haywood ruling. Bill Willoughby was selected by the (NBA's) Atlanta Hawks in 1975 at 18.
Infact none college players date back to 1948 and Joe Grabowski.

I'm not sure citing rule changes regard hand-checking favours a pro Jordan argument as much as it's supposed to. If Jordan (and Pippen) was allowed to hand check then surely he would have fewer fast break break points in todays game than he actually did back then (and those who act like Jordan never got fast break dunks can't even have watched highlight tapes from that era nevermind remember Johnny Bach's agressive defensive trapping schemes).


Depends on what you consider MJ peak. It's difficult to say when his peak was.

And yes and no with LBJ being better than MJ.

Miami Heat have Wade and that gives LBJ less pressure on him. And LBJ is playing less games, but on the different scale is that LBJ is having a tighter schedule.

It still doesn't change the fact that LBJ is killing this season. He is good with the mid jumper and good at driving. Even with that said, MJ was more skilled. MJ was better in the post and probably was better with his jumper. MJ might've been better defensive, but LBJ is more versatile. He is like a Pippen on steroids.

I think what sort'a separates him and Jordan is the mental aspect. Jordan proved in the biggest stage while LBJ could not (not yet). You could also say that Jordan played in a league where it was easier to guard players one on one than it is now.

In advance stats, current LBJ is better than peak Jordan. But the way they play within the offense is different and they do different things. I think Jordan is better within the half court by posting up, off ball movement, using screen for the pick and pop, and just a better catch and shoot player. LBJ is better at running the offense, passing, and LBJ could be better on the open floor.

LBJ is a mixture of Magic, Pippen and Wilkins on steroids.

But lol @ ppl thinking that it isn't close. LBJ is extremely efficient this year. The best offensive player and one of the best defensive player this year. The dude almost have no weakness. The only criticism ppl really have of him is his in the final period, and taking the final shot. I think that matters when you compare him to Jordan who is more of the alpha dog there. But it's not like Jordan didn't pass up the shot (Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong). It just that he didn't seem afraid to shoot it either.

Bottom line, we have to wait until the season is over. Could LBJ continue his regular season success in the playoffs? We'll see.
Good post, acknowledges Jordan's game as somewhat more complete better shooter, but that LeBron in a different way, with a different sort of game is matching Jordan's efficiency.

I would argue with those who are speaking about ease or difficulty of shot to some degree, all of Muggsy Bogues' shots were more difficult than Shaq's but he didn't get extra points for them. If we don't think that Miami and LeBron will get these shots in the playoffs, fine, thats a legitimate point, but to punish a team for creating easy points through good D makes no sense.

Did Jordan ever play with a Wade, no. But has LeBron had (thinking mainly Miami here) a stretch 4 like Kukoc shooting over 40% from three, or a pg as good as BJ or Kerr or even Paxson and Hodges at shooting the 3 ball. I think Pip is a better complement/fit as a 2nd banana than Wade even if Wade does draw an occasional double. Even in Cleveland (for the last couple of years) he had a better fitting cast than in Miami but not one comparable to MJ's title winning teams.

I think in an active career people tend to argue in favour of past (title) winners, so it really only fair to wait until careers are done. I think he's had a regular season career comparable to MJ's, not better, and his game is less complete (Jordan as a shooter and defender are perhaps his biggest advantages) but in the same league. In the playoff his record is mixed, some amazing games, and took some lousy Cleveland teams further than he should, but for sure some dissapointments (especially an awful 2011 finals), more than you would like for a guy of LeBron's ability, and only time will tell if this is a pattern or whether he will win multiple titles and redeem himself.

Still I don't think you can rubbish the notion that LeBron has been roughly as productive as a peak MJ this season (I would say also in previous seasons, though maybe leaning towards MJ for his D).

[REACTION]

http://i.imgur.com/wALIS.jpg

Jordan was far-and-away the better player.

[iDefend5]

The fact that this is being discussed right now, actually says a lot about Lebron, whether his haters like to admit it or not.
The fact that everybody is saying Jordan outside of LeBron fanboys means there isn't much of a discussion.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The fact that everybody is saying Jordan outside of LeBron fanboys means there isn't much of a discussion.
/Thread

[Owl]

Comparing them by age is useless because they entered the league at different ages. You have compare them by seasons.
You don't have to. Either comparison is valid.
LeBron entered at a younger age because he was NBA ready at younger age (yes, there were different cultures and family circumstances too, but no one was looking for MJ to make the leap and the reason for that is that he wasn't ready to), I don't think its particularly fair to punish him for that.
There is a degree to which the extra wear and tear might mean an earlier retirement and justify comparing first year to first year.
Then again the preps to pros star who faired worst with aging (J. O'Neal) barely played for his first 4 years.
But Kobe and Garnett have aged well. Garnett could perhaps be compared favourably to Duncan who has swiftly declined despite coming out 3 years later after a 4 year career at Wake Forest.


If he was as good as 91 Jordan, we'd already know it. We wouldn't need to "wait and see". Jordan was already as good a player as anyone had ever seen before he won a title. Winning championships was needed to confirm he was as good of a WINNER.

There were people saying he was the greatest in the late 80's and those rumblings kept getting louder every year after that. It's not a retroactive thing. If you gotta wait until he wins 3 titles to declare him better than Jordan, then he never was.
I agree that whether he is playing as well as MJ did shouldn't be influenced by what happens in the future. But in peoples heads and their judgements it will be. LeBron's present narrative is that of big game choker, and all that he does is looked at through that prism.

But MJ wasn't considered the GOAT or even clearly the best player in the league at that time in the late 80's (look at MVP voting), though there wasn't the negativity their is now (with way more coverage, internet etc) Jordan was viewed as the guy who couldn't make his teammates better, a one man highlight reel who couldn't get it done when it mattered.

The numbers suggest LeBron is at least in MJ's ballpark. There are flaws with his game (where MJ has a significant advantage) for sure but I think LBJ is looking at a top 3 GOAT type career with a possiblility (slender at this point but by no means impossible) of passing Jordan.

[ILLsmak]

You don't have to. Either comparison is valid.
LeBron entered at a younger age because he was NBA ready at younger age (yes, there were different cultures and family circumstances too, but no one was looking for MJ to make the leap and the reason for that is that he wasn't ready to), I don't think its particularly fair to punish him for that.
There is a degree to which the extra wear and tear might mean an earlier retirement and justify comparing first year to first year.
Then again the preps to pros star who faired worst with aging (J. O'Neal) barely played for his first 4 years.
But Kobe and Garnett have aged well. Garnett could perhaps be compared favourably to Duncan who has swiftly declined despite coming out 3 years later after a 4 year career at Wake Forest.


I agree that whether he is playing as well as MJ did shouldn't be influenced by what happens in the future. But in peoples heads and their judgements it will be. LeBron's present narrative is that of big game choker, and all that he does is looked at through that prism.

But MJ wasn't considered the GOAT or even clearly the best player in the league at that time in the late 80's (look at MVP voting), though there wasn't the negativity their is now (with way more coverage, internet etc) Jordan was viewed as the guy who couldn't make his teammates better, a one man highlight reel who couldn't get it done when it mattered.

The numbers suggest LeBron is at least in MJ's ballpark. There are flaws with his game (where MJ has a significant advantage) for sure but I think LBJ is looking at a top 3 GOAT type career with a possiblility (slender at this point but by no means impossible) of passing Jordan.

Unless LeBron wins 6 championships with at least 3 being in a row, he's not going to be mentioned with MJ. For all of his talent, he really ****ed his legacy. Since he won't do those things he will always be looked at as below Shaq, Kobe, and MJ... all of whom threepeated and more.

For all of LeBron's talent, I don't think he really understands the game. If he did, he would have no trouble getting a basket when his team needs one.

-Smak

[Bladers]

Only fanboys wouldsay, someone who cherry picks the entire game. has more fastbreak points than most teams (over 300) is better than Jordan.

[REACTION]

You don't have to. Either comparison is valid.

If you're talking about player characteristics and abilities like shooting, passing and defending, I agree that you can compare players by age. But when you're comparing player accolades and accomplishments, it makes no sense to compare by age and it's very misleading. You can't fairly say, "How many MVPs did Player A and Player B win by age 27?" when, say, one player had played 9 seasons by that age and the other had only played 6. It makes infinitely more sense to compare season-by-season. Seasons are the constant here. Age is variable.

[OldSchoolBBall]

But MJ wasn't considered the GOAT or even clearly the best

Jordan was considered the best player in the game by a majority of analysts by 1989 - certainly by 1990. Don't confuse MVP voting with who the best player in the league is.

[SwooshReturns]

Jordan was considered the best player in the game by a majority of analysts by 1989 - certainly by 1990. Don't confuse MVP voting with who the best player in the league is.
And by his first retirement in October 1993, was considered the greatest player ever.

[bwink23]

You don't have to. Either comparison is valid.
LeBron entered at a younger age because he was NBA ready at younger age (yes, there were different cultures and family circumstances too, but no one was looking for MJ to make the leap and the reason for that is that he wasn't ready to), I don't think its particularly fair to punish him for that.
There is a degree to which the extra wear and tear might mean an earlier retirement and justify comparing first year to first year.
Then again the preps to pros star who faired worst with aging (J. O'Neal) barely played for his first 4 years.
But Kobe and Garnett have aged well. Garnett could perhaps be compared favourably to Duncan who has swiftly declined despite coming out 3 years later after a 4 year career at Wake Forest.


I agree that whether he is playing as well as MJ did shouldn't be influenced by what happens in the future. But in peoples heads and their judgements it will be. LeBron's present narrative is that of big game choker, and all that he does is looked at through that prism.

But MJ wasn't considered the GOAT or even clearly the best player in the league at that time in the late 80's (look at MVP voting), though there wasn't the negativity their is now (with way more coverage, internet etc) Jordan was viewed as the guy who couldn't make his teammates better, a one man highlight reel who couldn't get it done when it mattered.

The numbers suggest LeBron is at least in MJ's ballpark. There are flaws with his game (where MJ has a significant advantage) for sure but I think LBJ is looking at a top 3 GOAT type career with a possiblility (slender at this point but by no means impossible) of passing Jordan.


As far as "wear and tear", you'd get more of that in college as a top recruit for 3-4 years than you would in limited time in the NBA....getting 10-15 a game isn't anything compared to 30-35 minutes at the college level, even comparing 30+games to 75. Wear and tear is matter of exerting more energy and workload...If you play just 15-25 minutes in the NBA, you don't have a big workload, spread out over 82 games. Your just going to work. Even in college, your expected to practice and train in the off season on a full ride.

[pegasus]

The fact that everybody is saying Jordan outside of LeBron fanboys means there isn't much of a discussion.

This. There is absolutely no discussion. One of them is known for his heart, and the other one is for not having one.

[SwooshReturns]

Jordan was considered the best player in the game by a majority of analysts by 1989 - certainly by 1990. Don't confuse MVP voting with who the best player in the league is.
If we take MJ's entire career on the Bulls, and say he never returns to play for the Wizards.

Remove the 2nd season where he missed most of the year to injury, then when he returned saw limited minutes ... etc.

And let's say add probable statistics for 1994 and 1995, potential rings (1994)

What are his career averages, number of MVPs, etc in your opinion Loki?

[bwink23]

If we take MJ's entire career on the Bulls, and say he never returns to play for the Wizards.

Remove the 2nd season where he missed most of the year to injury, then when he returned saw limited minutes ... etc.

And let's say add probable statistics for 1994 and 1995, potential rings (1994)

What are his career averages, number of MVPs, etc in your opinion Loki?


Jordan was so good, he got bored and retired twice....:lol

[SwooshReturns]

Jordan was so good, he got bored and retired twice....:lol
Nah, the 2nd retirement was because of Krause's dumb ass. Refusal to re-sign Pippen to max money, and refusal to sign PJax for more money. Bulls could've contended if they worked the pieces around MJ / Pip / Rodman correctly for at least another 2 seasons.

[bwink23]

Nah, the 2nd retirement was because of Krause's dumb ass. Refusal to re-sign Pippen to max money, and refusal to sign PJax for more money. Bulls could've contended if they worked the pieces around MJ / Pip / Rodman correctly for at least another 2 seasons.


Uhhh.....last time i joke with you....

[Disaprine]

:roll:

[SwooshReturns]

Uhhh.....last time i joke with you....
I know you were kidding ;P ... hey, all your posts are a huge joke when talking about Kobe. I get plenty of giggles then.

[bwink23]

I know you were kidding ;P ... hey, all your posts are a huge joke when talking about Kobe. I get plenty of giggles then.


Yeah, the facts do get the Kobe sack smugglers seething....:D

[alenleomessi]

I think it can be argued only if Lebron is the FMVP with some clutch performances

[SwooshReturns]

Yeah, the facts do get the Kobe sack smugglers seething....:D
No, I'm talking about your asinine and biased outlook on Kobe, and your nut hugging love for LeBron "I'm a mental midget" James.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, the facts do get the Kobe sack smugglers seething....:D

Weird, considering I've seen you post that he's in you're Top 10 already...

[Owl]

If you're talking about player characteristics and abilities like shooting, passing and defending, I agree that you can compare players by age. But when you're comparing player accolades and accomplishments, it makes no sense to compare by age and it's very misleading. You can't fairly say, "How many MVPs did Player A and Player B win by age 27?" when, say, one player had played 9 seasons by that age and the other had only played 6. It makes infinitely more sense to compare season-by-season. Seasons are the constant here. Age is variable.
Seasons certainly do limit the opportunity to win awards. But I would stand by the points that I made above.
Anyway as I have said before the I don't think either view is perfect, and given the way narrative colours the debate I'd say the only truly fair time to compare careers is after both careers are complete.


Jordan was considered the best player in the game by a majority of analysts by 1989 - certainly by 1990. Don't confuse MVP voting with who the best player in the league is.
Jordan was considered the best individual in the game. As Wilt was in his time. But people used entangiables to suggest guys on more winning teams were better (wrongly in my opinion). MVP awards are certainly indicative of who people thought was the best at that time even if it was driven by a media narrative (e.g. "Jordan's teams can't win") that proves nonsensical in retrospect.


Unless LeBron wins 6 championships with at least 3 being in a row, he's not going to be mentioned with MJ. For all of his talent, he really ****ed his legacy. Since he won't do those things he will always be looked at as below Shaq, Kobe, and MJ... all of whom threepeated and more.

For all of LeBron's talent, I don't think he really understands the game. If he did, he would have no trouble getting a basket when his team needs one.

-Smak
I don't know why the consecutiveness of titles would matter at all but whatever. At this point he can't afford to miss to many opportunities anyway. Bird, Chamberlain and West never repeated. Jabbar never repeated whilst he was Kareem rather than just "a quite good offensive center, who happens to be in the body of a living legend". Magic never three-peated. All of those guys are considered elite players all-traditionally top 10 GOAT with West now slipping out of some people's lists. So when did the 3-peat (or indeed titles) become the measure of an individual player.

LeBron gets baskets all the time and I think his team needs/wants all of them (though LBJ's weaker shooting -not to be confused with fg%- does make a worse crunch time option, even when only comparing them on paper). I'm not going to trot out clutch stats because that isn't what this thread is about, but I would again point out the idea that the present perception of LBJ is driven by narrative so i guess we'll only really properly be able see how things look in 10 years time.

[bwink23]

Weird, considering I've seen you post that he's in you're Top 10 already...


He is....and top 5 scorer of all-time.

[bwink23]

No, I'm talking about your asinine and biased outlook on Kobe, and your nut hugging love for LeBron "I'm a mental midget" James.


What can i say, i don't like the guy, never will....What i post is factual...you got a problem with that, SEE IF I CARE....:D

[Optimus Prime]

I love to see LeBron wins an NBA Finals MVP at 27 yrs.old. Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at 28.

Except LeBron joined the NBA straight out of high school and was 19, while Jordan went to college and left as a junior at age 21. Oops.

Besides, the Heat aren't even LeBron's team, whereas there was no dispute that the Bulls were Jordan's team. It is debatable whether or not LeBron is even the best player on his team, but there is no debate that Jordan was the best player on the Bulls and the best player ever in NBA history, period.

[Optimus Prime]

Comparing them by age is useless because they entered the league at different ages. You have compare them by seasons.


LeBron is playing in his 9th season and has yet to win a ring. Jordan won his first in his 7th season.
Jordan won his first Finals MVP in his 7th season. LeBron has yet to do so in his 9th.
Jordan won his first scoring title in his 3rd season. LeBron in his 5th.
Jordan won his first MVP in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.
Jordan made his first All-Star Team in his 1st season. LeBron in his 2nd.
Jordan made his first All-Defensive First Team in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.


Jordan

1984-85 - First All-Star Team
1985-86 -
1986-87 - First Scoring Title, First All-NBA First Team
1987-88 - First MVP, First DPOY, First All-Defensive 1st Team
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - First Championship, First FMVP, Second MVP
1991-92 - Second FMVP, Third MVP
1992-93 - Third FMVP
1993-94 -
1994-95 -
1995-96 - Fourth FMVP, Fourth MVP
1996-97 - Fifth FMVP
1997-98 - Sixth FMVP, Fifth MVP

LeBron

2003-04 -
2004-05 - First All-Star Team
2005-06 - First All-NBA 1st Team
2006-07 -
2007-08 - First Scoring Title
2008-09 - First MVP, First All-Defensive 1st Team
2009-10 - Second MVP
2010-11 -
2011-12 -

LeBron is a great talent, but Jordan was far more accomplished by his 9th season.

Very nice. :applause:

[bwink23]

A big difference here is Jordan was doing his under more physical duress. He was the focal point of every team defense, with no true second option yet that the opposing team gave a crap about.

[Optimus Prime]

The fact that everybody is saying Jordan outside of LeBron fanboys means there isn't much of a discussion.

There is the truth of the matter.

[Heavincent]

I love to see LeBron wins an NBA Finals MVP at 27 yrs.old. Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP at 28.

Anybody that seriously thinks this is a legit argument is ****ing retarded.

Lebron is in his 9th season. Jordan was on his way to his 3rd ring in his 9th season.

Seriously, why does anyone use that shitty argument?

[TheMan]

Except LeBron joined the NBA straight out of high school and was 19, while Jordan went to college and left as a junior at age 21. Oops.

Besides, the Heat aren't even LeBron's team, whereas there was no dispute that the Bulls were Jordan's team. It is debatable whether or not LeBron is even the best player on his team, but there is no debate that Jordan was the best player on the Bulls and the best player ever in NBA history, period.

Uh, it's not up to debate, LBJ>Wade, debatable is who's team is it, but Bron is clearly the better player of the two.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The fact that this is being discussed right now, actually says a lot about Lebron, whether his haters like to admit it or not.
:lol

Lebron has 0.00000000000000000000000000000000 rings

what is there to discuss about?

[Optimus Prime]

Uh, it's not up to debate, LBJ>Wade, debatable is who's team is it, but Bron is clearly the better player of the two.

Clearly empty stats and ESPN highlights = better player :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

But MJ wasn't considered the GOAT or even clearly the best player in the league at that time in the late 80's (look at MVP voting), though there wasn't the negativity their is now (with way more coverage, internet etc) Jordan was viewed as the guy who couldn't make his teammates better, a one man highlight reel who couldn't get it done when it mattered.

The numbers suggest LeBron is at least in MJ's ballpark. There are flaws with his game (where MJ has a significant advantage) for sure but I think LBJ is looking at a top 3 GOAT type career with a possiblility (slender at this point but by no means impossible) of passing Jordan.

The numbers may suggest it, but that doesn't make it so. I'm talking "better player", not "better career". Slim to none chance at either, though. Slim chance he'll have a better career (he's nine years in... I think Jordan had more great playoff series before he ever won a title than Lebron's had in his career) and almost no chance he'll be a better player. I doubt he'll be as good the next 3 years as he has been the last 3. And if he isn't as good as Jordan now (at his best), how can he be better in the future? And It's not like he's this gym rat working on compensating for the inevitable loss of some of his physical advantages. And he's not the greatest practice player. His ex-coach admitted Kobe took practices more seriously than Lebron.

His book is still being written, but I doubt it.

[Owl]

The numbers may suggest it, but that doesn't make it so. I'm talking "better player", not "better career". Slim to none chance at either, though. Slim chance he'll have a better career (he's nine years in... I think Jordan had more great playoff series before he ever won a title than Lebron's had in his career) and almost no chance he'll be a better player. I doubt he'll be as good the next 3 years as he has been the last 3. And if he isn't as good as Jordan now (at his best), how can he be better in the future? And It's not like he's this gym rat working on compensating for the inevitable loss of some of his physical advantages. And he's not the greatest practice player. His ex-coach admitted Kobe took practices more seriously than Lebron.

His book is still being written, but I doubt it.
It doesn't make it necessarily so but there is an onus on those who would disprove it to do so not vice versa (though as per my prior posts I would acknowledge MJ as the better defender and shooter). I don't think there's a precedent for a physique like LeBron's but I think he's put up numbers similar to Jordan's statistical peak so now the main area to catch up is titles. Whilst I generally argue against them as a measure of individual achievement I would have concede that without a number of titles, unless he suffers freakish misfortune (because he now does have the team to do so), his inability to get such rings would speak to flaws in his ability.
IF he isn't as good as peak MJ (and I don't know or believe that that is a given) he could amass a superior career by playing another 10 years (rather than taking a near 2 year hiatus near his peak, and leaving again slightly early and then coming back as shell of himself).
And it's not like his ex-coach has no agenda.

Anways you make fair points unlike some shouty people on these forums so :cheers:

[Da_Realist]

It doesn't make it necessarily so but there is an onus on those who would disprove it to do so not vice versa (though as per my prior posts I would acknowledge MJ as the better defender and shooter). I don't think there's a precedent for a physique like LeBron's but I think he's put up numbers similar to Jordan's statistical peak so now the main area to catch up is titles. Whilst I generally argue against them as a measure of individual achievement I would have concede that without a number of titles, unless he suffers freakish misfortune (because he now does have the team to do so), his inability to get such rings would speak to flaws in his ability.
IF he isn't as good as peak MJ (and I don't know or believe that that is a given) he could amass a superior career by playing another 10 years (rather than taking a near 2 year hiatus near his peak, and leaving again slightly early and then coming back as shell of himself).
And it's not like his ex-coach has no agenda.

Anways you make fair points unlike some shouty people on these forums so :cheers:

Wow. He was a shell of himself, but he was better from 96-98 than most player's peaks. :oldlol: Would you take today's Lebron over 96 Jordan if you wanted to win one series? It's unfair because we know Jordan won the title that year and Lebron hasn't gotten to the playoffs yet this year, but it's not an absurd question at all.

Jordan was as technically perfect from 90 - 98 as a 2 guard could get. He had to be to take two years off and come back to dominate like he did. He worked on things when he was still sky-ing over people because he never thought he was good enough. So when the time came for him to adjust his game, it was an easy adjustment. He already had the tools sitting in his garage, he just needed to go get them. You can't wait until you need it to work on it. Lebron has holes in his game that gets covered up because he's good at getting points, rebounds and assists. There's a game within those numbers that gets you to the level where Jordan was.

Jordan

-- was a more fundamentally sound player
-- a more competitive player (needed to win more than Lebron)
-- a better defender
-- moved better without the ball
-- had a better left hand
-- better understood when to make the right play and when not to
-- more clutch
-- had a better jumpshot
-- had a better post game
-- better able to give the team what it needed at the right time
-- gave teammates confidence that they wouldn't lose
-- gave opponents fear that they couldn't win

And this didn't start when he won a title. Nobody questioned Jordan's will to win even in the late 80's. In fact, his will to win might have been so great it suffocated his teammates. Jordan was an ass, but he pushed the Bulls in practice hard. They've said practices were so hard, the games seemed too easy. (Steve Kerr) He invited his teammates to work out before practice in his home gym to gameplan opponents then had his chef prepare breakfast for them when they were done. This helped them become one of the most prepared and mentally strong teams in the league. The game within the game. Lebron's not in that game. He's still trying to out-Oscar Oscar.

Do you think Lebron's thinking like this? --> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91136

He was talking between games 2 and 3 in the 96 Playoffs vs New York. Sure enough, the team didn't quite have it that night. Jordan pumped in 46 points and pushed the game to overtime before losing. You could see him checking things out, mentally gauging the game situation. Lebron's not there yet. He's matriculating in a stats-obsessed world. Don't let the numbers fool you, he's not on Jordan's level.

[swi7ch]

MJ is the GOAT. Of course his peak is better than LBJ's peak otherwise he wouldn't be the GOAT. :facepalm

[Duncan21formvp]

So a guy who has lost 3 years in a row as the favorite with HCA is supposed to be better than freaking Peak MJ???:oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wow. He was a shell of himself, but he was better from 96-98 than most player's peaks. :oldlol: Would you take today's Lebron over 96 Jordan if you wanted to win one series? It's unfair because we know Jordan won the title that year and Lebron hasn't gotten to the playoffs yet this year, but it's not an absurd question at all.

Jordan was as technically perfect from 90 - 98 as a 2 guard could get. He had to be to take two years off and come back to dominate like he did. He worked on things when he was still sky-ing over people because he never thought he was good enough. So when the time came for him to adjust his game, it was an easy adjustment. He already had the tools sitting in his garage, he just needed to go get them. You can't wait until you need it to work on it. Lebron has holes in his game that gets covered up because he's good at getting points, rebounds and assists. There's a game within those numbers that gets you to the level where Jordan was.

Jordan

-- was a more fundamentally sound player
-- a more competitive player (needed to win more than Lebron)
-- a better defender
-- moved better without the ball
-- had a better left hand
-- better understood when to make the right play and when not to
-- more clutch
-- had a better jumpshot
-- had a better post game
-- better able to give the team what it needed at the right time
-- gave teammates confidence that they wouldn't lose
-- gave opponents fear that they couldn't win

And this didn't start when he won a title. Nobody questioned Jordan's will to win even in the late 80's. In fact, his will to win might have been so great it suffocated his teammates. Jordan was an ass, but he pushed the Bulls in practice hard. They've said practices were so hard, the games seemed too easy. (Steve Kerr) He invited his teammates to work out before practice in his home gym to gameplan opponents then had his chef prepare breakfast for them when they were done. This helped them become one of the most prepared and mentally strong teams in the league. The game within the game. Lebron's not in that game. He's still trying to out-Oscar Oscar.

Do you think Lebron's thinking like this? --> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91136

He was talking between games 2 and 3 in the 96 Playoffs vs New York. Sure enough, the team didn't quite have it that night. Jordan pumped in 46 points and pushed the game to overtime before losing. You could see him checking things out, mentally gauging the game situation. Lebron's not there yet. He's matriculating in a stats-obsessed world. Don't let the numbers fool you, he's not on Jordan's level.

http://api.ning.com/files/aZaaAKGwMZj76fIbVjV2Ms1PQxPEXl1ligopQB5A3oB7na2yA7 45C8n740-n5bQytjM1aTxF2XOPTLoZpLK6TLEjiG14v9ne/clapping.gif

[rodman91]

I would rather 96-98 Jordan over peak Lebron on my team.Greater fundamentals,BBIQ,clutch,heart > Greater Athleticism.

Peak Jordan, not even arguable for me.

[Nick Young]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[305Baller]

Lebron's dominating this season. Both 27 years old. Who was better?

Jordan.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan was considered the best individual in the game. As Wilt was in his time. But people used entangiables to suggest guys on more winning teams were better (wrongly in my opinion). MVP awards are certainly indicative of who people thought was the best at that time even if it was driven by a media narrative (e.g. "Jordan's teams can't win") that proves nonsensical in retrospect.

That's ridiculous. No one thought Iverson was the best player in the league in 2001, no one thought Nash was the best player in 2006, and few people thought anyone other than Jordan was the best player in the league in 1989 (1990 at the latest). Dude was already getting GOAT talk in 1990, yet you think he wasn't considered the best IN THE LEAGUE at or before that point? Come on now...


Wow. He was a shell of himself, but he was better from 96-98 than most player's peaks. :oldlol: Would you take today's Lebron over 96 Jordan if you wanted to win one series? It's unfair because we know Jordan won the title that year and Lebron hasn't gotten to the playoffs yet this year, but it's not an absurd question at all.

Jordan was as technically perfect from 90 - 98 as a 2 guard could get. He had to be to take two years off and come back to dominate like he did. He worked on things when he was still sky-ing over people because he never thought he was good enough. So when the time came for him to adjust his game, it was an easy adjustment. He already had the tools sitting in his garage, he just needed to go get them. You can't wait until you need it to work on it. Lebron has holes in his game that gets covered up because he's good at getting points, rebounds and assists. There's a game within those numbers that gets you to the level where Jordan was.

Jordan

-- was a more fundamentally sound player
-- a more competitive player (needed to win more than Lebron)
-- a better defender
-- moved better without the ball
-- had a better left hand
-- better understood when to make the right play and when not to
-- more clutch
-- had a better jumpshot
-- had a better post game
-- better able to give the team what it needed at the right time
-- gave teammates confidence that they wouldn't lose
-- gave opponents fear that they couldn't win

And this didn't start when he won a title. Nobody questioned Jordan's will to win even in the late 80's. In fact, his will to win might have been so great it suffocated his teammates. Jordan was an ass, but he pushed the Bulls in practice hard. They've said practices were so hard, the games seemed too easy. (Steve Kerr) He invited his teammates to work out before practice in his home gym to gameplan opponents then had his chef prepare breakfast for them when they were done. This helped them become one of the most prepared and mentally strong teams in the league. The game within the game. Lebron's not in that game. He's still trying to out-Oscar Oscar.

Do you think Lebron's thinking like this? --> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91136

He was talking between games 2 and 3 in the 96 Playoffs vs New York. Sure enough, the team didn't quite have it that night. Jordan pumped in 46 points and pushed the game to overtime before losing. You could see him checking things out, mentally gauging the game situation. Lebron's not there yet. He's matriculating in a stats-obsessed world. Don't let the numbers fool you, he's not on Jordan's level.

Exactly.

[Collie]

Wow. He was a shell of himself, but he was better from 96-98 than most player's peaks. :oldlol: Would you take today's Lebron over 96 Jordan if you wanted to win one series? It's unfair because we know Jordan won the title that year and Lebron hasn't gotten to the playoffs yet this year, but it's not an absurd question at all.

Jordan was as technically perfect from 90 - 98 as a 2 guard could get. He had to be to take two years off and come back to dominate like he did. He worked on things when he was still sky-ing over people because he never thought he was good enough. So when the time came for him to adjust his game, it was an easy adjustment. He already had the tools sitting in his garage, he just needed to go get them. You can't wait until you need it to work on it. Lebron has holes in his game that gets covered up because he's good at getting points, rebounds and assists. There's a game within those numbers that gets you to the level where Jordan was.

Jordan

-- was a more fundamentally sound player
-- a more competitive player (needed to win more than Lebron)
-- a better defender
-- moved better without the ball
-- had a better left hand
-- better understood when to make the right play and when not to
-- more clutch
-- had a better jumpshot
-- had a better post game
-- better able to give the team what it needed at the right time
-- gave teammates confidence that they wouldn't lose
-- gave opponents fear that they couldn't win

And this didn't start when he won a title. Nobody questioned Jordan's will to win even in the late 80's. In fact, his will to win might have been so great it suffocated his teammates. Jordan was an ass, but he pushed the Bulls in practice hard. They've said practices were so hard, the games seemed too easy. (Steve Kerr) He invited his teammates to work out before practice in his home gym to gameplan opponents then had his chef prepare breakfast for them when they were done. This helped them become one of the most prepared and mentally strong teams in the league. The game within the game. Lebron's not in that game. He's still trying to out-Oscar Oscar.

Do you think Lebron's thinking like this? --> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91136

He was talking between games 2 and 3 in the 96 Playoffs vs New York. Sure enough, the team didn't quite have it that night. Jordan pumped in 46 points and pushed the game to overtime before losing. You could see him checking things out, mentally gauging the game situation. Lebron's not there yet. He's matriculating in a stats-obsessed world. Don't let the numbers fool you, he's not on Jordan's level.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/yes-rudy1.gif

[The Iron Fist]

Comparing them by age is useless because they entered the league at different ages. You have compare them by seasons.


LeBron is playing in his 9th season and has yet to win a ring. Jordan won his first in his 7th season.
Jordan won his first Finals MVP in his 7th season. LeBron has yet to do so in his 9th.
Jordan won his first scoring title in his 3rd season. LeBron in his 5th.
Jordan won his first MVP in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.
Jordan made his first All-Star Team in his 1st season. LeBron in his 2nd.
Jordan made his first All-Defensive First Team in his 4th season. LeBron in his 6th.


Jordan

1984-85 - First All-Star Team
1985-86 -
1986-87 - First Scoring Title, First All-NBA First Team
1987-88 - First MVP, First DPOY, First All-Defensive 1st Team
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - First Championship, First FMVP, Second MVP
1991-92 - Second FMVP, Third MVP
1992-93 - Third FMVP
1993-94 -
1994-95 -
1995-96 - Fourth FMVP, Fourth MVP
1996-97 - Fifth FMVP
1997-98 - Sixth FMVP, Fifth MVP

LeBron

2003-04 -
2004-05 - First All-Star Team
2005-06 - First All-NBA 1st Team
2006-07 -
2007-08 - First Scoring Title
2008-09 - First MVP, First All-Defensive 1st Team
2009-10 - Second MVP
2010-11 -
2011-12 -

LeBron is a great talent, but Jordan was far more accomplished by his 9th season.


:lol Now tally up those Player of the Month awards:lol

[Eat Like A Bosh]

He is having high fg % because of cherry picking, breakaway dunks. That's the benefit of playing with 2 top 15 players.
Exactly! Jordan shot over 50% while taking more difficult shots. He doesn't get nearly as much transition points as LeBron. Overall Jordan's is more impressive through my eyes.

Plus you never bet against your Airness.

[OldSchoolBBall]

:lol Now tally up those Player of the Month awards:lol

Do you have any idea how many POM awards Jordan would have if there were a POM award for each conference back then like there is now? Back then there was one POM for the entire league. Jordan was putting up ABSURD months regularly in the late 80's/early 90's.

[Fatstogie]

Lebron's high FG% is due to transition dunks/lay-ups, and not shooting many jumpers.

Jordan's high FG% was from him cutting through the traffic (just about flawlessly btw), making contested jumpers on a frequent basis, and having no regard for human life dunking ON people.

Jordan, and not even close.
Eh you would think this but be careful, Lebrons % on jumpers has gone up as well.

And if your saying Jordan can out dunk Lebron? Idk about all that noise. Out shoot sure.

And really its hard to say. But they are both above Kobe. Just because IMO they get their teammates involved more. They made shots for people, and lebron more so than MJ. But Kobe basically only passes if someone is all alone or if he gets stuck.

[Indian guy]

The problem with current LeBron is, he doesn't come close to passing the eye-test that's so necessary to accentuate his statistical dominance. Nobody's watching the Heat and going "WOW, he's awesome!". And that's because much of his production comes within the flow of the game. You'll pretty much NEVER see him take over a game. LeBron's a slave to easy baskets. Take those away and he's MIA for large stretches of the game. That's why he struggles so much at the end of games, where there is no flow and no easy baskets. It boils down to elite individual ability.

Now, this does not apply to his whole career. Only to his current self. '09 and '10 LeBron compares very well with peak MJ, but the current guy is not that player. Watch the games, not the boxscore. If LeBron was as good as people thought or the numbers indicated, Miami would break Chicago's 72-win record. Yet the Heat don't even win as much as the '09 and '10 Cavaliers. Think why that is. And no, it's not "chemistry".

[bwink23]

The problem with current LeBron is, he doesn't come close to passing the eye-test that's so necessary to accentuate his statistical dominance. Nobody's watching the Heat and going "WOW, he's awesome!". And that's because much of his production comes within the flow of the game. You'll pretty much NEVER see him take over a game. LeBron's a slave to easy baskets. Take those away and he's MIA for large stretches of the game. That's why he struggles so much at the end of games, where there is no flow and no easy baskets. It boils down to elite individual ability.

Now, this does not apply to his whole career. Only to his current self. '09 and '10 LeBron compares very well with peak MJ, but the current guy is not that player. Watch the games, not the boxscore. If LeBron was as good as people thought or the numbers indicated, Miami would break Chicago's 72-win record. Yet the Heat don't even win as much as the '09 and '10 Cavaliers. Think why that is. And no, it's not "chemistry".


So you agree with Larry Bird, who called Lebron BY FAR the best player in the league today, right?

[d21221hk]

The problem with current LeBron is, he doesn't come close to passing the eye-test that's so necessary to accentuate his statistical dominance. Nobody's watching the Heat and going "WOW, he's awesome!". And that's because much of his production comes within the flow of the game. You'll pretty much NEVER see him take over a game. LeBron's a slave to easy baskets. Take those away and he's MIA for large stretches of the game. That's why he struggles so much at the end of games, where there is no flow and no easy baskets. It boils down to elite individual ability.

Now, this does not apply to his whole career. Only to his current self. '09 and '10 LeBron compares very well with peak MJ, but the current guy is not that player. Watch the games, not the boxscore. If LeBron was as good as people thought or the numbers indicated, Miami would break Chicago's 72-win record. Yet the Heat don't even win as much as the '09 and '10 Cavaliers. Think why that is. And no, it's not "chemistry".

Are you trying to say it's spo? :lol

i keed

[guy]

Statistics doesn't always take into account situations. Certain situations that may not come often, but definitely can eventually hamper a team's chances from winning.

[Indian guy]

So you agree with Larry Bird, who called Lebron BY FAR the best player in the league today, right?

Larry Bird is wrong. I doubt he's watching Heat games with any consistency. Maybe the occasional National TV game and that's about it. But like everybody else, he looks up players' averages and sees a FG% of 55% and goes crazy. I swear, every single superlative attached to LeBron's play this season is due to that FG%. If he was shooting his normal 49-51%, nobody would give a ****.

[bwink23]

Larry Bird is wrong. I doubt he's watching Heat games with any consistency. Maybe the occasional National TV game and that's about it. But like everybody else, he looks up players' averages and sees a FG% of 55% and goes crazy. I swear, every single superlative attached to LeBron's play this season is due to that FG%. If he was shooting his normal 49-51%, nobody would give a ****.


LOL!!! Ive watched a few Heat games, and i happen to agree with him, as MANY other people do. i'm sorry, but Bird's opinion i would value substantially more than your own...your the one who's wrong.

[madmax]

Larry Bird is wrong. I doubt he's watching Heat games with any consistency. Maybe the occasional National TV game and that's about it. But like everybody else, he looks up players' averages and sees a FG% of 55% and goes crazy. I swear, every single superlative attached to LeBron's play this season is due to that FG%. If he was shooting his normal 49-51%, nobody would give a ****.

sorry to break it down to you bud, but just because YOU and your fellow Bulls homer fans are not impressed, doesn't mean everyone else should be too. You see, shooting well matters in basketball games. So you tell me you would take Lebron shooting 48 % like he did when he averaged 31 ppg over the current one? Is it because he passes your "eye test" maybe?:facepalm Sit yo ass down clown

[Indian guy]

Retarded topic needs to be bumped. And I'll quote myself
The problem with current LeBron is, he doesn't come close to passing the eye-test that's so necessary to accentuate his statistical dominance. Nobody's watching the Heat and going "WOW, he's awesome!". And that's because much of his production comes within the flow of the game. You'll pretty much NEVER see him take over a game. LeBron's a slave to easy baskets. Take those away and he's MIA for large stretches of the game. That's why he struggles so much at the end of games, where there is no flow and no easy baskets. It boils down to elite individual ability.

[linZoMourning]

Retarded topic needs to be bumped. And I'll quote myself

agreed

[Indian guy]

The only version of Bulls-MJ that's not better than 11-12 LeBron is rookie MJ.

^ Page 2.

[SpecialQue]

But...but...Lebron is having his best statistical year...

:milton

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

^ Page 2.

How many versions are better than 2009 / 2010 Lebron?

[Jotaro Durant]

so obvious when u know ppl never watched mj and just look at stats.:roll:

[game3524]

Lebron's 2011-12 season is a great example why PER can be misleading without context.

Don't get me wrong, the man has had a great season and should win MVP. But this season is no where near peak Jordan, let alone Lebron's own 2009 and 2010 seasons.

He simply isn't the same player he was physically 2-3 years ago and the high FG% he had earlier this season was mainly due to easy buckets the Heat were getting from transitions. Teams have wised up in recent weeks and have limited the transition buckets and have force Lebron to score in the half-court, that is why his PER and efficiency has gone down.

[D-Wade316]

Lebron's 2011-12 season is a great example why PER can be misleading without context.

Don't get me wrong, the man has had a great season and should win MVP. But this season is no where near peak Jordan, let alone Lebron's own 2009 and 2010 seasons.

He simply isn't the same player he was physically 2-3 years ago and the high FG% he had earlier this season was mainly due to easy buckets the Heat were getting from transitions. Teams have wised up in recent weeks and have limited the transition buckets and have force Lebron to score in the half-court, that is why his PER and efficiency has gone down.
His jumper went broke after the ASG. His PER was through the roof before the all-star weekend because he was hitting ridiculous shots, playing in the low post, and moving off the ball. He was legitimately having his best season and the beast season of all-time.

[Doctor Rivers]

LOL!!! Ive watched a few Heat games, and i happen to agree with him, as MANY other people do. i'm sorry, but Bird's opinion i would value substantially more than your own...your the one who's wrong.
first of all it's YOU'RE

and lol ok ...

[quote=Larry Bird]I think Kobe is the best player in our league and I think he

[kileer7]

Answer: No.

[rodman91]

Lebron '09: 31.67
Lebron '12: 30.21

Honeymoon is over for Lebron dick riders.

[JohnnyWall]

He's not even better than peak Kobe, so of course not.

http://i.imgur.com/ilCvJl.png

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pippen in first 3peat： 20.9P 8.9R 7.4A 45.6%FG 4.1TO
LeBron in two finals： 19.5P 7.1R 6.8A 41.7%FG 4.7TO

[Deuce Bigalow]

.....isn't as good as either LeBron or Jordan at their peaks.


As for the OP's question: no.
According to what? PER?

If we go by peak PER, Kobe is better than Magic and Bird

[Owl]

Pippen in first 3peat： 20.9P 8.9R 7.4A 45.6%FG 4.1TO
LeBron in two finals： 19.5P 7.1R 6.8A 41.7%FG 4.7TO
Congrats you've proved that LeBron's (univerally acknowledged) two worst playoff series are comparable to those of a player often considered to be one of the top 30 all time greatest careers. I assume that was your intent.

[Heavincent]

He was legitimately having his best season and the beast season of all-time.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kids these days.

[SpecialQue]

This is my favorite thread. :lebronamazed:

[nbacardDOTnet]

MJ >>>>>>>>>>>beyond description>>>>>>>>>>>>> lbj

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Michael%20Jordan/1992nbafinalG1.jpg :lebronamazed:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/e98703d6.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/coming-up-small-lebron-james.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/lebron-james-guarantee-8rings-atleast.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/2011-nba-final-miami-heat-dallas-mavericks-lebron-james.jpg :lebroncry:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/696d77fa.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Lord%20Of%20The%20Rings/six-onlybucket.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/GreatChance-to-get-just-one-ring-for-lebronjames-lbj-miami-heat-ebay-antoinewalker.jpg


so obvious when u know lbj bandwagoners never watched mj and just look at stats. lol

fixed

[SpecialQue]

Lebron is better than Jordan.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

when assessing who is "better", one must necessarily assess that player's role in the final minutes.
In the case of Lebron, given his numerous meltdowns and the fact he defers to the superior closer (Wade), one must agree that Lebron is not "better" than many many players, including MJ, Wade, Kobe and Durant.

[nbacardDOTnet]

when assessing who is "better", one must necessarily assess that player's role in the final minutes.
In the case of Lebron, given his numerous meltdowns and the fact he defers to the superior closer (Wade), one must agree that Lebron is not "better" than many many players, including MJ, Wade, Kobe and Durant.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/lebron-passed-again-dwyane-wade.jpg :lebroncry:

[The Iron Fist]

When Kobe is dominating the league, its " against weak defenses and a softer era".

When bronz does it, " better tthn Jordan"
:oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/yoda_thread_fail.jpg

[PickernRoller]

Nope, simple answer....

[TOUCH MY BODY]

:lebroncry:

[cteach111]

yall fools act like the season has ended.

Lebron's been in a funk and there's still 14-15 games left for him and the Heat to get scorching hot.

He could still end up with the best season ever, so stop actin like this is a dead thread.

Its very much alive for friend, very much alive... muahah..

[gengiskhan]

81 Games Regular Season Stats

32.5 PPG
8 RPG
8 APG
3 SPG

NEXT................:coleman: :coleman:

[Micku]

Bumping for the current LeBron James play.

LeBron dropped off from his epic performance in the early part of the season. But he still consistent and a beast. In the playoffs, he is constantly dropping great numbers. Sometimes ppl take it for granted.

With that said, he hasn't been able to close out games still. Very shocking. He wasn't really like this on the Cavs. Except for 2010. He tried harder.

[Ballin']

Playing 1 on 1 must have been a great benefit for Jordan. Too bad LeBron doesn't have that luxury. What would his stats be? 38 on 22 shots or so? Sounds about right.
STFU. You have never even seen Jordan play. Playing 1 on 1. :lol The Celtics are doubling Wade every time he gets the ball, and NOT Lebron. LOL.

[Dragonyeuw]

No.

[Glide2keva]

STFU. You have never even seen Jordan play. Playing 1 on 1. :lol The Celtics are doubling Wade every time he gets the ball, and NOT Lebron. LOL.
The things they say on this site. Such uninformed trolls.

[Chrono90]

Thread creator is either:

1) Too young to even watch Jordan play
2) Too lazy to search Jordan stats and achievements
3) Too stupid to know the difference