LA Times report Lakers want Joakim noah in Pau deal.

[NBA2k-Monster23]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cts=1331745174550&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsprungonsports.com%2F&ei=2M1gT-HxOIn9ggfM5bGiCA&usg=AFQjCNEGEDS5yvSO0MbVSBtOhaIbGvV1wQ

Looks like the deal is dead. Don't see the Lakers getting any type of upgrade by the deadline.

[SwooshReturns]

What would they do with Noah? Trade him then in turn for permiter talent? Why would they need another center? They already have two of them in Gasol and Bynum.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Looks like we're not getting Gasol
:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Optimus Prime]

Would rather have Gasol over Deng and Noah. Talk about overrated. Only deal with Bulls would be Deng plus a quality pg from a third team.

[NBA2k-Monster23]

What would they do with Noah? Trade him then in turn for permiter talent? Why would they need another center? They already have two of them in Gasol and Bynum.

The deal is the Lakers trade Pau for 2 first round picks Noah and Cj Watson. Why? I don't know. Maybe the feel he can play PF and if Bynum was to get hurt I hope god forbid he would easily move into that center spot. I guess it's either Noah watson and the picks or no deal.

[Da Doc04]

i like the pau for noah deal....

[KelticForce1349]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cts=1331745174550&ved=0CEQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsprungonsports.com%2F&ei=2M1gT-HxOIn9ggfM5bGiCA&usg=AFQjCNEGEDS5yvSO0MbVSBtOhaIbGvV1wQ

Looks like the deal is dead. Don't see the Lakers getting any type of upgrade by the deadline.


The Bulls have to say no to that request. Boozer and Watson for Gasol and it's a done deal...Lakers bend over for a change and the NBA is better for that. LA wants anything more and they get nothing at all.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Not sure I would do this trade if I were the Lakers.
This trade should include a pick going to the Lakers and a pick going to Cleveland.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6qzofz7

[Tenchi Ryu]

The Bulls have to say no to that request. Boozer and Watson for Gasol and it's a done deal...Lakers bend over for a change and the NBA is better for that. LA wants anything more and they get nothing at all.
/Thread

[Story Up]

The deal is the Lakers trade Pau for 2 first round picks Noah and Cj Watson. Why? I don't know. Maybe the feel he can play PF and if Bynum was to get hurt I hope god forbid he would easily move into that center spot. I guess it's either Noah watson and the picks or no deal.
**** that. A role player and scrub PG? Chicago can go **** their overrated team.

[brahmabull117]

Would rather have Gasol over Deng and Noah. Talk about overrated. Only deal with Bulls would be Deng plus a quality pg from a third team.

Deng is a better player than gasol, you serious brah?



Same players offensively except that deng is the 2nd best defensive SF in the league (after lebron)

[brahmabull117]

**** that. A role player and scrub PG? Chicago can go **** their overrated team.

scrub PG?


Watson is 10 times better than Derrek Fisher. He can shoot the 3, facilitate the offense and play very good defense...none of which Fisher can do anymore

[Tenchi Ryu]

**** that. A role player and scrub PG? Chicago can go **** their overrated team.
Yea, cause Gasol's washed up ass is worth that much in the first place....

GTFOH

[Clocian-IGN]

that shit makes no sense. why would lakers want noah(unless they put him at PF)

what about this trade

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7yvoene

bobcats pick goes to houston, and some 1sts go to utah

[Dengness9]

Would rather have Gasol over Deng and Noah. Talk about overrated. Only deal with Bulls would be Deng plus a quality pg from a third team.



Wait, am i interpreting your post correctly.....

You think Deng/Noah < Gasol?

Ill wait for your answer before I say whatever else i have to say to you.

[Kappy]

Not sure I would do this trade if I were the Lakers.
This trade should include a pick going to the Lakers and a pick going to Cleveland.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6qzofz7

Pau is one of my favorite players, but I'd have to do this trade.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Yea, cause Gasol's washed up ass is worth that much in the first place....

GTFOH
Gasol is washed up? That's news to me and every GM in the league.

[Optimus Prime]

Deng is a better player than gasol, you serious brah?



Same players offensively except that deng is the 2nd best defensive SF in the league (after lebron)

Deng is way overrated and made to look good by Rose. I remember just a few years ago when the cries from Bulls fans were to unload him for pennies now he is better than a skilled versatile 7 foot 4 time all star with two rings as the #2 guy.

And these awful trade ideas...Bulls fans...smh...:facepalm

[Tenchi Ryu]

Gasol is washed up? That's news to me and every GM in the league.
He's DEFINITELY not the same Gasol that won 2 rings, that's for damn sure.

[NBA2k-Monster23]

Not sure I would do this trade if I were the Lakers.
This trade should include a pick going to the Lakers and a pick going to Cleveland.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6qzofz7

I would do that deal and I believe you are right the Lakers get a pick and Cleveland. That would be a good deal..

[Clocian-IGN]

**** that. A role player and scrub PG? Chicago can go **** their overrated team.

best record in the league with multitude of injuries :hammerhead:. what does that make the lakers? :lol

[brahmabull117]

Deng is way overrated and made to look good by Rose. I remember just a few years ago when the cries from Bulls fans were to unload him for pennies now he is better than a skilled versatile 7 foot 4 time all star with two rings as the #2 guy.

And these awful trade ideas...Bulls fans...smh...:facepalm


I am not sure if you're just trolling or retarded



Deng is a career 16 ppg scorer who is shooting 43% from 3 point range this season. Defensively he's absolutely phenomenal and he can pass as well if he needs to. Deng is also 26



Gasol is the same offensive producer as Deng except that he's 31 years old and plays mediocre defense




DENG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gasol

[Droid101]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.

[Droid101]

I am not sure if you're just trolling or retarded



Deng is a career 16 ppg scorer who is shooting 43% from 3 point range this season. Defensively he's absolutely phenomenal and he can pass as well if he needs to. Deng is also 26



Gasol is the same offensive producer as Deng except that he's 31 years old and plays mediocre defense




DENG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gasol
Your homer is showing.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.
Replace Deng with Watson (and possibly Butler) cut Gibson, and add some picks, you got a deal.

[rhythmic]

best record in the league with multitude of injuries :hammerhead:. what does that make the lakers? :lol

This doesn't even make sense.
They are a very deep team with a bunch of solid players, an all-star and a superstar. Neither Watson or Noah is that all-star or a superstar.

Pau Gasol is an all-star and is worth way more then Noah & Watson, like Story Up said, please stop overrating Chicago.

[brahmabull117]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:



a 31 year old finesse powerforward for a 26 year old stud SF who is one of the best two players in the league and 2 of the best defensive big men in the league??




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[KelticForce1349]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.


The TAJinater, Deng, AND Asik for Gasol???!!! :wtf:

[NBA2k-Monster23]

He's not the same Gasol because of the trade rumors and Bynum being the second option now. If Gasol was to get on the Bulls they will give teams fits because he can step out and shoot also a great passer and he will immediately be the second option behind Rose. It would make sense for the Bulls to do that trade.

The only way it makes since for the Lakers is Noah and Sessions including and a first round pick.

[Qwyjibo]

I still don't understand the "quantity over quality" approach the Lakers would be taking in all these rumours. Gasol is better than anyone not named Rose from the Bulls. I don't see any point of replacing Gasol with an inferior player like Noah who isn't any better of a "fit". Deng I guess would fit but the Bulls would need to throw more in plus it seems like they like Deng for whatever magical intangibles he brings.

There isn't a "Pau to Chicago" deal that makes sense for the Lakers value or fit wise.

[rhythmic]

Deng for Gasol straight up is the only trade that is realistic and I'd actually want from Chicago. Unless it's Rose which is impossible.

[Clocian-IGN]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.

:wtf:

[brahmabull117]

I still don't understand the "quantity over quality" approach the Lakers would be taking in all these rumours. Gasol is better than anyone not named Rose from the Bulls. I don't see any point of replacing Gasol with an inferior player like Noah who isn't any better of a "fit". Deng I guess would fit but the Bulls would need to throw more in plus it seems like they like Deng for whatever magical intangibles he brings.

There isn't a "Pau to Chicago" deal that makes sense for the Lakers value or fit wise.


please, I'm begging you guys



explain to me how Gasoft is better than Deng. You understand Deng is the best perimeter defender in the league outside of Lebron James right?

[rhythmic]

I still don't understand the "quantity over quality" approach the Lakers would be taking in all these rumours. Gasol is better than anyone not named Rose from the Bulls. I don't see any point of replacing Gasol with an inferior player like Noah who isn't any better of a "fit". Deng I guess would fit but the Bulls would need to throw more in plus it seems like they like Deng for whatever magical intangibles he brings.

There isn't a "Pau to Chicago" deal that makes sense for the Lakers value or fit wise.

Boozer & Deng for Gasol & Barnes.

[pegasus]

Boozer+Asik is more than enough for Gasol. If they don't like it, we can throw in CJ Watson for Blake, but that's about it.

Gasol is not an elite defender, not an elite shooter, and is old. Stop the overrating.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

He's DEFINITELY not the same Gasol that won 2 rings, that's for damn sure.
the difference you are seeing is the emergence of Bynum. Bynum is getting more shots and more rebounds, as Gasol moves out to the elbow. Keep in mind, they are all still trying to operate within a new offense and are only just beginning to gel.
Looking at Gasols stats, he is still getting over 10 boards, still shooting over 50%, still in the 16 to 17 ppg range. All that with the emerging Bynum and new system.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[caliman]

I am not sure if you're just trolling or retarded



Deng is a career 16 ppg scorer who is shooting 43% from 3 point range this season. Defensively he's absolutely phenomenal and he can pass as well if he needs to. Deng is also 26



Gasol is the same offensive producer as Deng except that he's 31 years old and plays mediocre defense




DENG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gasol


:roll: :roll: :oldlol: :oldlol: :roll: :roll: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Optimus Prime]

I still don't understand the "quantity over quality" approach the Lakers would be taking in all these rumours. Gasol is better than anyone not named Rose from the Bulls. I don't see any point of replacing Gasol with an inferior player like Noah who isn't any better of a "fit". Deng I guess would fit but the Bulls would need to throw more in plus it seems like they like Deng for whatever magical intangibles he brings.

There isn't a "Pau to Chicago" deal that makes sense for the Lakers value or fit wise.

Someone who makes sense and isnt a raving Bulls fanatic. Gasol > Deng and Noah. Boozer is garbage with an awful contract and even Jim Buss isnt looney enough to sign off on these ridiculous trades.

[Dengness9]

I'd rather get Taj Gibson personally. Maybe Taj, Asik, Deng for Gasol.



Holy shit....do Lakers fans really think that is a fair trade or would even by considered by the Bulls FO????!!!!!!

The Bulls wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol straight up!

I think Lakers fans are forgetting that the Bulls don't need to make a trade whatsoever, especially since they are again the 1 seed currently in the East.

Meanwhile the Lakers are probably not contenders w/ out upgrading at least the PG position and also the SF position.

Im not talking shit, just telling it like it is. The Lakers and their fans are so use to getting their way they are delusional. NOT ALL LAKERS FANS, just most of you in this thread.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Boozer+Asik is more than enough for Gasol. If they don't like it, we can throw in CJ Watson for Blake, but that's about it.

Gasol is not an elite defender, not an elite shooter, and is old. Stop the overrating.
so what is Boozer, then?
Asik? whatever.
CJ Watson for Blake? Well, we can't pass THAT up! :lol

[Qwyjibo]

please, I'm begging you guys



explain to me how Gasoft is better than Deng. You understand Deng is the best perimeter defender in the league outside of Lebron James right?
And you do understand that Pau Gasol is a better and more efficient scorer than Deng, a good rebounder for his size/position and a very smart offensive player when it comes to spacing and moving the ball, right?

[NBA2k-Monster23]

The main thing is this the Lakers have to trade Gasol. He is making too much money and the more we are over the Luxury tax the more we get penalized because of the CBA. For the future, It will be hard to rebuild the team when you are over the cap because you can't bring players in. With Gasol and Kobe making all that money there is no way we can do it. If Gasol doesn't get traded by the deadline the same problem is going to present itself next year. When free agency opens and draft roles around the Lakers will still be shopping Gasol. That's the main reason they are trying to do it now so they can get more value.

[brahmabull117]

Gasol > Deng and Noah.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:



So 2 of the best defensive players in the league who average combined 25 ppg and are very young for a 31 year old who averages 16 ppg and is a mediocre defender?


Yea that makes sense :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

Gasol > Noah

ESPECIALLY when you already have Bynum.

Horrible trade for the Lakers, but I'm sure they know that. This is probably just another fabricated rumor.

And whoever said Boozer and Watson for Gasol needs to put the pipe down. Cocaine is a hell of a drug. :oldlol:

Any trade that doesn't bring Deng to LA doesn't occur, because Mitch hangs up the phone.

[Clocian-IGN]

Holy shit....do Lakers fans really think that is a fair trade or would even by considered by the Bulls FO????!!!!!!

The Bulls wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol straight up!

I think Lakers fans are forgetting that the Bulls don't need to make a trade whatsoever, especially since they are again the 1 seed currently in the East.

Meanwhile the Lakers are probably not contenders w/ out upgrading at least the PG position and also the SF position.

Im not talking shit, just telling it like it is. The Lakers and their fans are so use to getting their way they are delusional. NOT ALL LAKERS FANS, just most of you in this thread.

truth.com

[Dengness9]

Deng is way overrated and made to look good by Rose. I remember just a few years ago when the cries from Bulls fans were to unload him for pennies now he is better than a skilled versatile 7 foot 4 time all star with two rings as the #2 guy.

And these awful trade ideas...Bulls fans...smh...:facepalm


a few years ago, Deng wasn't living up to his contract. After a really good season last year and an all-star appearance this year, things have changed buddy.

26 year old 6'9 2 way player with experience and a great teammate.

"Made to look good by Rose"...... WHat?:facepalm

[pegasus]

the difference you are seeing is the emergence of Bynum. Bynum is getting more shots and more rebounds, as Gasol moves out to the elbow. Keep in mind, they are all still trying to operate within a new offense and are only just beginning to gel.
Looking at Gasols stats, he is still getting over 10 boards, still shooting over 50%, still in the 16 to 17 ppg range. All that with the emerging Bynum and new system.

Him shooting 50% is not impressive, at all. He misses a ton of easy buckets underneath the basket, and his mid range shooting is erratic.

He is one of the best passing big men and still can rebound, but he does not have the same post-game he used to have. It doesn't have anything to do with Bynum (maybe some).

Gasol posts up quite a bit, but can't back his man down, so he has to pass it out to shooters who are not open because Gasol doesn't command double teams.

[niko]

Basically the Lakers don't feel a need to give up Pau, so they asked for a lot. Bulls fans want Lakers to take the players they don't want, why would the Lakers give you an upgrade for free?

Yes the Lakers are asking for too much, they are allowed to.

[rhythmic]

Boozer+Asik is more than enough for Gasol. If they don't like it, we can throw in CJ Watson for Blake, but that's about it.

Gasol is not an elite defender, not an elite shooter, and is old. Stop the overrating.

Eh, maybe watch more games before speaking. Gasol on a team that fully utilize his talents is still very much a top PF in this league. Bynum's emergence has diminished his full presence.

It's funny how Gasol is no longer considered a top five PF on this forum; I'd take him over anyone not named Dirk. He is SHARING the ball with a ball dominant guard and an emerging all-star center. :rolleyes:

On the Bulls; 18/11/4/2 big.
Highly efficient, great post game, good shooter, great passer, good rebounder, is tall and is an effective shot blocker.

And yet he isn't worth LUOL DENG?
People got some messed up perceptions I tell ya.

[brahmabull117]

And you do understand that Pau Gasol is a better and more efficient scorer than Deng, a good rebounder for his size/position and a very smart offensive player when it comes to spacing and moving the ball, right?


They're about the same scorer (about 16 ppg). I agree Pau is more efficient but they're about the same in terms of their basketball IQ


you understand that basketball is played on 2 sides of the ball though right?


Defensively, Deng >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pau

[brahmabull117]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Him shooting 50% is not impressive, at all. He misses a ton of easy buckets underneath the basket, and his mid range shooting is erratic.

He is one of the best passing big men and still can rebound, but he does not have the same post-game he used to have. It doesn't have anything to do with Bynum (maybe some).

Gasol posts up quite a bit, but can't back his man down, so he has to pass it out to shooters who are not open because Gasol doesn't command double teams.

Such a load of bullshit; Pau literally never even attempts to fight for low post position anymore because it's Bynum's job.

[Dengness9]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

He doesn't play defense
Deng is the best perimeter defender in the league outside of Lebron



End of story

:rolleyes: His size alone presents issues for the opposition defensively. LA won two titles with Pau as their primary center, yet his defensive presence is an issue to you? :facepalm

[Qwyjibo]

Deng is the best perimeter defender in the league outside of Lebron
Is this one of those lies that if you tell enough, you start believing it to be true? Not saying Deng isn't a good defensive player because is, but you are overrating this aspect of his game simply to make your ridiculous argument that "Deng > Gasol" seem more plausible.

[pegasus]

so what is Boozer, then?
Asik? whatever.
CJ Watson for Blake? Well, we can't pass THAT up! :lol

Boozer can knock down those shots Kobe creates for Gasol on a regular basis. And Boozer is still a good enough passing big that can play the high/low game with Bynum. And he wouldn't be a big downgrade in terms of rebounding. Both he and Gasol are mediocre defenders.

Asik is one of the best defensive bigs in the league, and he would be a great back up to Bynum.

CJ Watson is better than Blake; no need to argue about that.

[rhythmic]

Noah is actually averaging a double double now, and has been a beast for 2 months. If not for a slow start he would have been an all-star over Hibbert. Not to mention, Noah dropping a trip dub recently really shows his talent all around.

Noah is worth more than a 31 year old Gasol. No knock on Pau but Noah is 26 years old. Please stop talking out of your ass.

And don't forget the Lakers need to make a trade to upgrade PG/SF or both. Bulls don't have to make any moves if they don't want to.

Ok so we have delusional Bulls fans claiming their 3rd/4th best player is better/more valuable then Pau Gasol.

Now I've heard it all, done with this retarded discussion.
I mean Oh My God, he is averaging a double double. What is it 10 & 10? :rolleyes:

[Kappy]

I know Kobe always liked Deng. Remember when Kobe was talking about leaving the Lakers, and he said he would only really consider it if Deng wasn't traded.

[brahmabull117]

Is this one of those lies that if you tell enough, you start believing it to be true? Not saying Deng isn't a good defensive player because is, but you are overrating this aspect of his game simply to make your ridiculous argument that "Deng > Gasol" seem more plausible.


Watch Deng on a game to game basis and you'll see how incredibly effective both his individual and team defense is. The man is near flawless from a defensive fundamentals perspective



Offensively, they're putting up about the same numbers. How are people arguing that Gasol is a significantly better player offensively?

[ZeN]

I dont care what LA gets in a Chi deal.. as long as it doesnt include Boozer.. Because Fukk Boozer..

[BlackVVaves]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[brahmabull117]

I dont care what LA gets in a Chi deal.. as long as it doesnt include Boozer.. Because Fukk Boozer..
boozer and pau are very similar players offensively



Gasol is not as awful as Boozer is defensively but they're very similar in terms of offense, rebounding and passing

[pegasus]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

boozer and pau are very similar players offensively



Gasol is not as awful as Boozer is defensively but they're very similar in terms of offense, rebounding and passing
no, they are not. Boozer cannot shoot over 7-footers like Gasol.
Boozer is undersized...it has always been his limitation. Boozer cannot play the low post effectively.
Boozer is a great mid-range shooter for a PF. That's the only thing he has on Gasol...who is also a good mid-range shooter.

[BlackVVaves]

boozer and pau are very similar players offensively



Gasol is not as awful as Boozer is defensively but they're very similar in terms of offense, rebounding and passing

If by similar you mean Gasol is better, then yes.

Gasol is the FAR better passer, has a FAR better offensive skill set, a better rebounder, a higher ball IQ, and let's not even talk defense.

Who do you guys think you're fooling? You realize most of us in this thread watch basketball right?

[Dengness9]

I still don't understand the "quantity over quality" approach the Lakers would be taking in all these rumours. Gasol is better than anyone not named Rose from the Bulls. I don't see any point of replacing Gasol with an inferior player like Noah who isn't any better of a "fit". Deng I guess would fit but the Bulls would need to throw more in plus it seems like they like Deng for whatever magical intangibles he brings.

There isn't a "Pau to Chicago" deal that makes sense for the Lakers value or fit wise.


You sound like an idiot discrediting Luol by using that bullshit line about magical intangibles.

[chairman]

Laker Fans are dumb as hell, we don't need Pau Gasol. He is aged and isn't worth more then Boozer and CJ Watson. F*** Pau Gasol

[brownmamba00]

Laker Fans are dumb as hell, we don't need Pau Gasol. He is aged and isn't worth more then Boozer and CJ Watson. F*** Pau Gasol
it's not our fault that rose and the bulls FO gets a hard-on for pau.

you want him? give up noah and deng or gtfo

[brahmabull117]

You sound like an idiot discrediting Luol by using that bullshit line about magical intangibles.


On this forum, basketball is only played at the offensive end and a guy having near perfect defensive fundamentals means nothing



:facepalm

[brahmabull117]

it's not our fault that rose and the bulls FO gets a hard-on for pau.

you want him? give up noah and deng or gtfo



2 young players in their mid 20s who average combined 25 and 17 and are 2 of the best defensive players in the league for a 31 year old who scores 16-10?



http://www.maxrev.de/files/2012/02/not_sure_if_trolling_or_just_retardedjpgpagespeedc ejioi5hsumh.jpg

[wang4three]

What would they do with Noah? Trade him then in turn for permiter talent? Why would they need another center? They already have two of them in Gasol and Bynum.

Noah before he came into the league was projected to play PF just like Horford. He was thinner, really mobile, and he's a great passer from the top of the key than he is from the post.

[BlackVVaves]

Laker Fans are dumb as hell, we don't need Pau Gasol. He is aged and isn't worth more then Boozer and CJ Watson. F*** Pau Gasol

This is coming from a non-Laker fan: Cool. You think Boozer and CJ Watson is worth more than Gasol? I'm sure you won't find a Laker soul that tries to pry those two away from your Bulls team and convince you otherwise :oldlol:

When Boozer disappears for another series against Miami, and the Bulls are once again on the outside looking in while the Heat roll to another Finals appearance, we'll see if you all feel the same.

[chairman]

it's not our fault that rose and the bulls FO gets a hard-on for pau.

you want him? give up noah and deng or gtfo
Lmao no I don't want Pau overrated ass. Kobe Gasal and Bynum can't get first seed. F*** that overrated softy. Fans would hate on Pau for being soft as much a they hated on Boozer. Bulls fans are forgetting Pau is soft as hell, laker fans overrating the shit out of him. I don't wan him

[Dengness9]

I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LAKERS FANS MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT AGE.


I have not discredited Pau or his game in anyway in this thread besides talking about his age.


But seriously, Lakers fans need to stop acting like the Bulls need to make a trade. We don't. The Lakers do.

Good Luck LA, hopefully Ramon Sessions or some other middle of the road PG makes your team good enough to get out of the 2nd round.:sleeping

[Whoah10115]

The only reason for the Lakers not to do this deal is because Noah is part of that core and for my money you just don't trade away those kind of players...at least not usually. You certainly can't trade Deng and Noah. But Bulls fans, make no mistake. Pau Gasol is worth Deng and Noah, if we're talking strictly basketball.


Obviously, Noah would play PF in that case and be the backup center. And then you have Deng.



But if you trade Noah and Watson and a couple picks...I'm sorry, unless you just refuse to give up Noah because he means something to your team (and I'm completely fine with that), you can't say anything. As a basketball decision, that's an incredible deal.

[chairman]

This is coming from a non-Laker fan: Cool. You think Boozer and CJ Watson is worth more than Gasol? I'm sure you won't find a Laker soul that tries to pry those two away from your Bulls team and convince you otherwise :oldlol:

When Boozer disappears for another series against Miami, and the Bulls are once again on the outside looking in while the Heat roll to another Finals appearance, we'll see if you all feel the same.
I don't thnk They're worth more then Gasol. I said as much as Gasol. I don't want Gasol's softness on this team

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

Basically the Lakers don't feel a need to give up Pau, so they asked for a lot. Bulls fans want Lakers to take the players they don't want, why would the Lakers give you an upgrade for free?

Yes the Lakers are asking for too much, they are allowed to.

Somebody that make sense :cheers: WHO THE HELL WANTS BOOZER. And why does the bulls fans thinks he's an all-star type of guy, but wants in return a ALL-STAR like Pau...just don't add up (BULLS).

[brownmamba00]

But seriously, Lakers fans need to stop acting like the Bulls need to make a trade. We don't. The Lakers do.

LA doesn't need to trade Pau. Just get a PG.

lol@bulls fans trying to force boozer down our throats
and another lol at this guy acting like his injury prone ass team is making the finals.

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[brahmabull117]

The only reason for the Lakers not to do this deal is because Noah is part of that core and for my money you just don't trade away those kind of players...at least not usually. You certainly can't trade Deng and Noah. But Bulls fans, make no mistake. Pau Gasol is worth Deng and Noah, if we're talking strictly basketball.



a 31 year old who averages 16-10 and is an average defensive player is worth a couple mid 20s guys who are 2 of the best defenders in the league and average 25-17 combined?




:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[brahmabull117]

If by similar you mean Gasol is better, then yes.

Gasol is the FAR better passer, has a FAR better offensive skill set, a better rebounder, a higher ball IQ, and let's not even talk defense.




their numbers are nearly identical offensively


look it up if you would like. I would take Pau over Boozer obviously because of size and defense but I think Boozer and Watson is a fair deal for that



people act like Watson is just a scrub bench player. Dude would average 15-8 if he got starter minutes and is a fantastic 3 point shooter and good defender. He's a monster upgrade over Derek Fisher

[Dengness9]

The only reason for the Lakers not to do this deal is because Noah is part of that core and for my money you just don't trade away those kind of players...at least not usually. You certainly can't trade Deng and Noah. But Bulls fans, make no mistake. Pau Gasol is worth Deng and Noah, if we're talking strictly basketball.


Obviously, Noah would play PF in that case and be the backup center. And then you have Deng.



But if you trade Noah and Watson and a couple picks...I'm sorry, unless you just refuse to give up Noah because he means something to your team (and I'm completely fine with that), you can't say anything. As a basketball decision, that's an incredible deal.


You are smoking Whitney Houston crack if you think a 26 year old all-star and 26 year old top 5-7 Center is worth 31 year old Pau Gasol.

This thread is pathetic.

[Dengness9]

LA doesn't need to trade Pau. Just get a PG.

lol@bulls fans trying to force boozer down our throats
and another lol at this guy acting like his injury prone ass team is making the finals.


WHERE DID MY POST SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE FINALS???

Please w/ that bullshit.

[Story Up]

their numbers are nearly identical offensively


look it up if you would like. I would take Pau over Boozer obviously because of size and defense but I think Boozer and Watson is a fair deal for that



people act like Watson is just a scrub bench player. Dude would average 15-8 if he got starter minutes and is a fantastic 3 point shooter and good defender. He's a monster upgrade over Derek Fisher
Deng and Watson for Gasol and 1st round pick or **** off, we don't want Boozer.

[All Net]

Makes no sense...

[Dengness9]

Sorry LA, this isn't gonna be another gift wrapped trade like you're use to.


Sorry Kobe won't get his 6th.:cheers:

[chairman]

Deng and Watson for Gasol and 1st round pick or **** off, we don't want Boozer.
What a ***, and you think you'll get Beasley with a te? Lol dumbass we don't want gasoft

[brahmabull117]

Deng and Watson for Gasol and 1st round pick or **** off, we don't want Boozer.



Deng for Gasol is not a fair trade, you need to get off that high horse. Deng and Watson is a ridiculous amount for a 31 year old who averages 16 ppg



Deng isn't going anywhere

[All Net]

Sorry LA, this isn't gonna be another gift wrapped trade like you're use to.


Sorry Kobe won't get his 6th.:cheers:

The only people who are expecting a gift wrap is some Bulls fans...you expect to get a talent like Gasol without giving up legit talent?

[Dengness9]

The only people who are expecting a gift wrap is some Bulls fans...you expect to get a talent like Gasol without giving up legit talent?


And go ahead and tell me where you saw me post anything about a crappy package going out to the Lakers????


My point from the get go is Deng nor Noah is gonna be traded for Gasol.

It makes 0 sense for Chicago.

Gasol is a really good player but people are making the asking price sound equal to that of Dwight Howard.

Its a joke.

but to go back to your question..... Do the Lakers expect to get back equal talent for a player who was already traded before the season started and has been disgruntled ever since?:no:

[chazzy]

Lol at idiots quantifying Gasol's impact by merely saying "16ppg." Great analysis.

[All Net]

And go ahead and tell me where you saw me post anything about a crappy package going out to the Lakers????


My point from the get go is Deng nor Noah is gonna be traded for Gasol.

It makes 0 sense for Chicago.

Gasol is a really good player but people are making the asking price sound equal to that of Dwight Howard.

Its a joke.

but to go back to your question..... Do the Lakers expect to get back equal talent for a player who was already traded before the season started and has been disgruntled ever since?:no:

Fact is Pau is still a top tier PF and the kind of guy who can get the Bulls over the top. A legit 2nd star next to Rose..a guy who can give you 20 and 10 in a playoff series. He may be 31 but he would give you a better chance at winning titles in the next few years..He may be 31 but it's worth it if it can get the Bulls a title.

[Story Up]

What a ***, and you think you'll get Beasley with a te? Lol dumbass we don't want gasoft
Suck a dick

[Tenchi Ryu]

And go ahead and tell me where you saw me post anything about a crappy package going out to the Lakers????


My point from the get go is Deng nor Noah is gonna be traded for Gasol.

It makes 0 sense for Chicago.

Gasol is a really good player but people are making the asking price sound equal to that of Dwight Howard.

Its a joke.

but to go back to your question..... Do the Lakers expect to get back equal talent for a player who was already traded before the season started and has been disgruntled ever since?:no:
/Thread

[brahmabull117]

Lol at idiots quantifying Gasol's impact by merely saying "16ppg." Great analysis.


LOL @ idiots ignoring the massive difference in defense between Deng and Gasol


They're very similar players in offensive production. Gasol is a little more efficient but Deng is a phenomenal 3 point shooter (which is huge for the bulls and lakers)


the 5 year age difference is huge as well

[Dengness9]

Lol at idiots quantifying Gasol's impact by merely saying "16ppg." Great analysis.


Im not one of them, and its stupid to say that because we know Gasol could be putting up bigger numbers without Bynum playing well this year.


At the same time, Pau is past his prime and has been unhappy since the rejected CP3 trade. The whole thing is a mess for LA.


How is Pau gonna feel after the next two days of hearing his name all over the place AGAIN????

[Dengness9]

Fact is Pau is still a top tier PF and the kind of guy who can get the Bulls over the top. A legit 2nd star next to Rose..a guy who can give you 20 and 10 in a playoff series. He may be 31 but he would give you a better chance at winning titles in the next few years..He may be 31 but it's worth it if it can get the Bulls a title.



Might be true, might not be. But what you also don't say in your post is the Bulls might be able to get over the top w/ out making a trade at all.

There are many unknowns in this situation, but one thing is for sure....

The Bulls are one of the top 3 contenders in the league to go w/ MIA and OKC.

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

Sorry LA, this isn't gonna be another gift wrapped trade like you're use to.


Sorry Kobe won't get his 6th.:cheers:

As long as the Bull FO stay scared of making moves to better the TEAM you won't win a championship. NO BIG MAN NO RING. I really hope the lakers get sessions and maybe beasley, then lets here want you have to say. See the lakers are not scared to make discussion. Set back and learn something don't plink....

[brahmabull117]

The only people who are expecting a gift wrap is some Bulls fans...you expect to get a talent like Gasol without giving up legit talent?


You people are making it sound like he's Dwight Howard



Boozer and Watson is the only trade that makes sense for the bulls. Also LOL @ Lakers fans who don't think their team would be much much improved with that trade


Watson is a monster upgrade over Fisher. Boozer is a downgrade from Pau but it's not nearly as big as people think. Watson's improvement over Fisher is big enough to more than compensate for Pau to Boozer downgrade

[All Net]

Might be true, might not be. But what you also don't say in your post is the Bulls might be able to get over the top w/ out making a trade at all.

There are many unknowns in this situation, but one thing is for sure....

The Bulls are one of the top 3 contenders in the league to go w/ MIA and OKC.

I agree the Bulls may not need to make a move at all and still win it all. Great great team without any moves but adding a true 2nd star makes their chances go up...mainly because Pau could play Bosh even or play better while with Boozer I don't see him doing that in a series vs Miami which could be the Bulls downfall.

If Rip wasn't always out the line-up I don't think the Bulls need for a move would be so obvious.

Heat
Bulls
Thunder

to me one of those will win it all...so yes they could win without a move but their chances go up a fair bit if they do.

Can you imagine Rose with a legit 2nd star? scary.

[Kobr]

http://i.imgur.com/xNGes.jpg

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

with both Boozer and Gasol on the front line, Chicago would have a lot of scoring options. Gasol can play low. Boozer at the elbow. Nice combo.
If they can keep Deng, then they would have a powerful team.

[All Net]

You people are making it sound like he's Dwight Howard



Boozer and Watson is the only trade that makes sense for the bulls. Also LOL @ Lakers fans who don't think their team would be much much improved with that trade

Watson is a monster upgrade over Fisher. Boozer is a downgrade from Pau but it's not nearly as big as people think. Watson's improvement over Fisher is big enough to more than compensate for Pau to Boozer downgrade

No we wouldn't

We want no part of Boozer and for good reason.

[chazzy]

Also LOL @ Lakers fans who don't think their team would be much much improved with that trade

Thank god you're not Mitch.

[brahmabull117]

No we wouldn't

We want no part of Boozer and for good reason.


For god's sake, look up Boozer's numbers. They are nearly identical to Pau Gasol



CJ watson though is just a monster upgrade over Derek Fisher

[DMAVS41]

Lol at idiots quantifying Gasol's impact by merely saying "16ppg." Great analysis.

:cheers:

[chazzy]

For god's sake, look up Boozer's numbers. They are nearly identical to Pau Gasol

:facepalm

[All Net]

For god's sake, look up Boozer's numbers. They are nearly identical to Pau Gasol



CJ watson though is just a monster upgrade over Derek Fisher

Sessions is a better option and I don't care what Boozer's stats say...he is is a loser who Bulls refuse to even play in the 4th quarter. That says it all.

[DMAVS41]

For god's sake, look up Boozer's numbers. They are nearly identical to Pau Gasol



CJ watson though is just a monster upgrade over Derek Fisher

The fact that you think the numbers mean anything in this comparison is laughable.

The value of Gasol is tremendously higher than Boozer. If it wasn't, why would the Bulls be looking to trade him for Gasol in the first place? And what makes it even more absurd....is that Boozer is surrounded by the best defensive team in the league.

I like Boozer. He would do much better playing with a pass first pg....but Gasol is just better. A lot better....and that should be obvious.

[chazzy]

Scumbag Bulls stans


Underrate supporting cast for Rose's MVP case

Overrate them in trade talks

[brahmabull117]

Sessions is a better option and I don't care what Boozer's stats say...he is is a loser who Bulls refuse to even play in the 4th quarter. That says it all.
Watson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sessions



better 3 point shooter and much better defender. Offensively they're about the same

[LABean]

lol @ Bulls fans overrating Deng. :roll:
Superior defense? :lol

Man, you guys overrate everyone. :facepalm

[brahmabull117]

The fact that you think the numbers mean anything in this comparison is laughable.
.



Numbers mean nothing? :oldlol:


What the hell do you evaluate players on?



Everybody here acts like Boozer scores 10 ppg and Gasol averages 30 ppg. For god's sake, one guy averages 15.5 and 8 while the other guy averages 16-10. Yes there is a significant difference in defense but the Watson upgrade more than compensates for that

[Dengness9]

As long as the Bull FO stay scared of making moves to better the TEAM you won't win a championship. NO BIG MAN NO RING. I really hope the lakers get sessions and maybe beasley, then lets here want you have to say. See the lakers are not scared to make discussion. Set back and learn something don't plink....


Congrats on the douchiest comment of the thread. Is that you Dr Buss??? Mitch????

GTFO.

I have been realistic this entire conversation. The Bulls FO is extremely active at this deadline, somehow you translate it into being scared to make a move when no one in the NBA besides the Bucks and Warriors made a move.

So i guess ill get ready to... "Set back and learn something..." and don't worry I won't "plink".

:hammerhead:

[All Net]

Watson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sessions



better 3 point shooter and much better defender. Offensively they're about the same

In your IMO..but Sessions is the perfect PG for L.A and can be had for a pick. I know who I would want.

[DMAVS41]

Scumbag Bulls stans


Underrate supporting cast for Rose's MVP case

Overrate them in trade talks

Yep. So frustrating.

[Dengness9]

I agree the Bulls may not need to make a move at all and still win it all. Great great team without any moves but adding a true 2nd star makes their chances go up...mainly because Pau could play Bosh even or play better while with Boozer I don't see him doing that in a series vs Miami which could be the Bulls downfall.

If Rip wasn't always out the line-up I don't think the Bulls need for a move would be so obvious.

Heat
Bulls
Thunder

to me one of those will win it all...so yes they could win without a move but their chances go up a fair bit if they do.

Can you imagine Rose with a legit 2nd star? scary.


Great post, no beef w/ anything said.:applause:

[Optimus Prime]

http://i.imgur.com/xNGes.jpg

:roll: So true...only thing that it needs is to be called "The Value of Bynum and Gasol According to ISH".

[The Real JW]

I honestly wouldn't even give up Gasol for Deng and Noah if I were the Lakers. No way. Pau Gasol is a one-of-a-kind seven footer who is directly responsible in-part for 3 consecutive finals appearances and 2 consecutive championships against formidable teams. Pau Gasol has shown me what he's capable of. I've seen nothing of the like from Deng and Noah. You don't trade one of your franchise big men for lesser players like Deng and Noah. You just don't. Maybe in 5 years, but not now. Not while Pau's still putting up 16/10/3.4 on 50.4% in a "slump" year.

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

Might be true, might not be. But what you also don't say in your post is the Bulls might be able to get over the top w/ out making a trade at all.

There are many unknowns in this situation, but one thing is for sure....

The Bulls are one of the top 3 contenders in the league to go w/ MIA and OKC.

First of all let me say congrats on your win at La early this season. But I would bet you that my current laker team could beat the Bulls if the finals was held right now. I live in Chicago, IL and love the bulls team, just hate how they are affraid to make a move to improve the team, oh wait they did brought in a new addition "Hamilton" maybe he will get you to the promise land.

If I was the Bull I would take Pau in a heartbeat. One two punch done deal.
Dengness9 i'm not hating on you, it just your FO.

[DMAVS41]

Numbers mean nothing? :oldlol:


What the hell do you evaluate players on?



Everybody here acts like Boozer scores 10 ppg and Gasol averages 30 ppg. For god's sake, one guy averages 15.5 and 8 while the other guy averages 16-10. Yes there is a significant difference in defense but the Watson upgrade more than compensates for that

There are plenty of cases in which the numbers will be closer than reality. The Bulls clearly know this. As they are willing to give up Boozer and more to get Gasol.

If they were just going off numbers it wouldn't make much sense. But anyone and everyone in the basketball world knows Gasol's value is much higher than Boozer's....its should not be debated.

[brahmabull117]

In your IMO..but Sessions is the perfect PG for L.A and can be had for a pick. I know who I would want.


Watson is the perfect PG for the lakers dude


Watson plays great defense (huge for Mike Brown's system), is a great 3 point shooter and can run the offense. The Lakers are sorely lacking in all 3 areas at PG position


Can Sessions play the same kind of defense that Watson plays?

[Dengness9]

Scumbag Bulls stans


Underrate supporting cast for Rose's MVP case

Overrate them in trade talks


Scumbag Bulls stans......??

2 things.....

How many Bulls fans in here are overrating their players? I count 2.

And because they are overrating their players they are scumbags.

:blah :banghead:

[brahmabull117]

There are plenty of cases in which the numbers will be closer than reality. The Bulls clearly know this. As they are willing to give up Boozer and more to get Gasol.

If they were just going off numbers it wouldn't make much sense. But anyone and everyone in the basketball world knows Gasol's value is much higher than Boozer's....its should not be debated.

Size and defense is the reason why I would prefer Pau


Offensive/passing/rebounding they're very similar

[Dengness9]

I honestly wouldn't even give up Gasol for Deng and Noah if I were the Lakers. No way. Pau Gasol is a one-of-a-kind seven footer who is directly responsible in-part for 3 consecutive finals appearances and 2 consecutive championships against formidable teams. Pau Gasol has shown me what he's capable of. I've seen nothing of the like from Deng and Noah. You don't trade one of your franchise big men for lesser players like Deng and Noah. You just don't. Maybe in 5 years, but not now. Not while Pau's still putting up 16/10/3.4 on 50.4% in a "slump" year.



OMG.... I didn't think it could get any worse in here......WORST POST OF THE DAY RIGHT HERE.

Fish
Kobe
Deng
Noah
Bynum

That team would instantly give OKC fans nightmares.

Atleast you have a sweet E-Honda Avy if nothing else

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

Sessions is a better option and I don't care what Boozer's stats say...he is is a loser who Bulls refuse to even play in the 4th quarter. That says it all.
100% agree Bro.:cheers:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Watson is the perfect PG for the lakers dude


Watson plays great defense (huge for Mike Brown's system), is a great 3 point shooter and can run the offense. The Lakers are sorely lacking in all 3 areas at PG position


Can Sessions play the same kind of defense that Watson plays?

Gasol plus Session is wayyyyyy better than Boozer plus Watson....and, yes, its not even close.
Further, I would rather have Gasol/Blake than Boozer/Watson. Thus, NO TRADE!

[brahmabull117]

Fish
Kobe
Deng
Noah
Bynum



this would be the best starting lineup in the league IMO in terms of both offensive and defensive

[DMAVS41]

Size and defense is the reason why I would prefer Pau


Offensive/passing/rebounding they're very similar

I disagree. Pau is a much better passer. And offensively just has a much better feel for the game.

Gasol as a 2nd option is just very hard to beat. Can get you 20/10 consistently while also passing extremely well and defending man to man and in the paint well.

This is similar to the "antawn jamison" rule for me. this is just my opinion...i don't state is as fact, but i never thought jamison was very good. Hell, he's averaging 19 and 7 this year. Numbers wise he's as good as Gasol pretty much. But we all know in reality in terms of winning in the playoffs Gasol is probably twice as good.

Just my opinion though.

[Dengness9]

First of all let me say congrats on your win at La early this season. But I would bet you that my current laker team could beat the Bulls if the finals was held right now. I live in Chicago, IL and love the bulls team, just hate how they are affraid to make a move to improve the team, oh wait they did brought in a new addition "Hamilton" maybe he will get you to the promise land.

If I was the Bull I would take Pau in a heartbeat. One two punch done deal.
Dengness9 i'm not hating on you, it just your FO.



Ok. I hear you. Its just w/ the chemistry the Bulls FO has carefully assembled the last season and a half, you have to be careful at this point in a season who you trade.

Bulls w/ the current Roster even w/ some injuries are a lock IMO to get to at least the ECF.

[RoseCity07]

I'm sure they would. They love trading burnt out players for players that are underrated beasts.

[Kobr]

:roll: So true...only thing that it needs is to be called "The Value of Bynum and Gasol According to ISH".

Added. :D

http://i.imgur.com/joVhw.jpg

[Clocian-IGN]

I'm sure they would. They love trading burnt out players for players that are underrated beasts.

:cheers:

[Droid101]

Same players offensively except that deng is the 2nd best defensive SF in the league (after lebron)
Same player offensively? Are you crazy? Pau draws all kinds of attention as a tall, long low post player. Not to mention Pau's defensive impact is just about the same as Deng's, since he's a tall rim protector with long arms.

[brahmabull117]

Same player offensively? Are you crazy? Pau draws all kinds of attention as a tall, long low post player. Not to mention Pau's defensive impact is just about the same as Deng's, since he's a tall rim protector with long arms.


Pau gets dominated by any halfway decent big man on the inside



Deng and Pau are the same players defensively ?



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Droid101]

Pau gets dominated by any halfway decent big man on the inside



Deng and Pau are the same players defensively ?



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
What the **** are you talking about? Pau pretty much punked Dwight Howard when they met in the finals. Pau doesn't get "dominated" by anyone.

Deng and Pau are completely different players. Pau protects the rim. Deng is a wing defensive player (which are less valuable than defensive big men).

Anyway, no point arguing this with you. Your name is "brahmabull." You'll overrate your own guys to the grave.

[brahmabull117]

What the **** are you talking about? Pau pretty much punked Dwight Howard when they met in the finals. Pau doesn't get "dominated" by anyone.

Deng and Pau are completely different players. Pau protects the rim. Deng is a wing defensive player (which are less valuable than defensive big men).


good defensive big men don't get the nickname "pau gasoft"



Anyway, no point arguing this with you. Your name is "brahmabull." You'll overrate your own guys to the grave.



my name is the nickname of the most electrifying man in sports and entertainment, you jealous brah?



http://www.thefilmyap.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/The-Rock-Winner.jpg

[Droid101]

my name is a tribute to the most electrifying man in sports and entertainment, you jealous brah?



http://www.thefilmyap.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/The-Rock-Winner.jpg
:roll: :facepalm

[DFish]

LOL, Bulls fans are getting desperate. Thinking they can turn their stagnant shit into a proven champion for free.

I love the smell of fan desperation at the trade deadline. :lol

[hkfosho]

LOL, Bulls fans are getting desperate. Thinking they can turn their stagnant shit into a proven champion for free.

I love the smell of fan desperation at the trade deadline. :lol

Isnt it the other way around, with the Lakers being the desperate ones :confusedshrug: ? Judging by the records, seems like the Bulls are well off to a first seed in the Eastern conference.

[RazorBaLade]

The Bulls have to say no to that request. Boozer and Watson for Gasol and it's a done deal...Lakers bend over for a change and the NBA is better for that. LA wants anything more and they get nothing at all.

the nba is better because of a ****ing sham of a trade?

kill yourself

[BIG FURB]

LOL, Laker fans are getting desperate. Thinking they can turn their stagnant shit into a proven champion for free.

I love the smell of fan desperation at the trade deadline. :lol

Fixed.

If there is a team and fanbase that's been desperate to upgrade their stagnant ass team it's the lakers. They've been trying to make major moves since before the season started.