In 20 Years Kobe Will Be Remembered As The GOAT

[selrahc]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

[FindingTim]

If Kobe wins 10 rings he still won't be the GOAT.
eyeball test man, eyeball test.

[maybeshewill13]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

http://i40.tinypic.com/b3viuf.gif

[Collie]

Bill Russell has freakin' 11 rings, and he's not viewed as the consensus majority GOAT.

[Micku]

Weak era. :p

[selrahc]

Bill Russell has freakin' 11 rings, and he's not viewed as the consensus majority GOAT.

thats because hes not as good as kobe

[Legends66NBA7]

As timeless as Kobe possibly could be, a lot of things don't get better with age.

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

Offcourse, that's not my claim, but we won't know how well Kobe's legacy will age (no matter how timless he is), until he retires.

[TheBigVeto]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

This is why we have the internet. To keep reminding people how bad of a chucker Kobe is and he rode Shaq's coattails for 3 rings and Pau's coattails for 2. People will always remember that Kobe isn't as great as Jordan, regardless how many rings Lebron wins.

[jstern]

Jordan was really big in the 90s, as well as other super stars, and it's amazing seeing how much their values has gone down in the eyes of new people who are not familiar with them.

Kobe has 5 championship, but not many memorable playoff moments like Jordan, Bird, etc or big shots like Fisher. People will look at his 41% finals shooting percentage, 6-24 game 7. His value will go down. Everyone's value does. And Jordan is considered the GOAT not because he happened to be there, but because he was beyond anyone, including Kobe, and stepped it up on the biggest moments. It's not a coincidence that people before Jordan's time, also consider him the GOAT, and pretty much anyone who saw him play. The majority of people don't have an illogical fanboy mentality that only pick their favorite player, so consider those last two facts.

[fsvr54]

Lakers aren't winning anything.

[tommyhtc]

Jordan was really big in the 90s, as well as other super stars, and it's amazing seeing how much their values has gone down in the eyes of new people who are not familiar with them.

Kobe has 5 championship, but not many memorable playoff moments like Jordan, Bird, etc or big shots like Fisher. People will look at his 41% finals shooting percentage, 6-24. His value will go down. Everyone's value does. And Jordan is considered the GOAT not because he happened to be there, but because he was beyond anyone, including Kobe, and stepped it up on the biggest moments. It's not a coincidence that people before Jordan's time, also consider him the GOAT, and pretty much anyone who saw him play. The majority of people don't have an illogical fanboy mentality that only pick their favorite player, so consider those last two facts.
I think kareem and oscar are not agreeing with you...

[jstern]

As timeless as Kobe possibly could be, a lot of things don't get better with age.

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

Offcourse, that's not my claim, but we won't know how well Kobe's legacy will age (no matter how timless he is), until he retires.

I clearly saw this a couple of years ago when I read some kids on youtube talking about Shaq. To them prime Shaq was the same as old Shaq. It's an interesting phenomenon. Another one is that super stars, like say Kevin Garnette, they get forgotten, so they will also say things like there were no super stars back then, because I've read some comments where kids literally think that Jordan and a couple other of the big names were the only super stars in the league. Outside of these basketball forums, they don't even know how good Olajuwon was, etc, the name might be familiar, but to them he's probably just regular players.


I think kareem and oscar are not agreeing with you...

I don't mean every single person before Jordan, but the vast majority. For example Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0

[LABean]

He is the GOAT. :confusedshrug:

[SuperPippen]

As timeless as Kobe possibly could be, a lot of things don't get better with age.

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

Offcourse, that's not my claim, but we won't know how well Kobe's legacy will age (no matter how timless he is), until he retires.

Good point.

Any future generations of basketball fans who did not get to witness Kobe first-hand, in his prime, and see what a legendary scorer and player that he was might hold a generally lower opinion of him than the fans of today do.

In the future, some might come to think of Kobe's 81 point game like Wilt's 100 point game - moderately impressive, but accomplished against inferior competition that wouldn't even be able to hold a candle to so-called "modern talent."

[fsvr54]

Do people seriously think Kobe is the greatest basketball player of all time? I thought it was a joke at first, but really?? Dude isn't even top 5.

[hawke812]

Kobe>Jesus>Mankind:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SuperPippen]

He is the GOAT. :confusedshrug:

GOAT basketball playing rapist, maybe.




:D

[RazorBaLade]

this guys not a laker or a kobe fan

why are people coming out of the woodwork to do this shit...

[I<3NBA]

NBA fans in the future

Kobe playing in the era of weakest guards.
They don't play defense during Kobe's era.
6-24 isn't GOAT.
Prime Jeremy Lin dropped 38 on Kobe.

[Kews1]

http://i44.tinypic.com/21d2xjd.png

[zay_24]

He is the GOAT. :confusedshrug:
this

[Ne 1]

Actually if he passes Kareem on the all-time scoring list and wins 6 rings, I think large majority of casual fans and media pundits probably would hype him to that be the GOAT. But even if he were to accomplish that I wouldn't consider him to be the GOAT, but I'm just saying that's would the public perception could very well be.

[RazorBaLade]

Actually if he passes Kareem on the all-time scoring list and wins 6 rings, I think large majority of casual fans and media pundits probably would hype him to that be the GOAT. But even if he were to accomplish that I wouldn't consider him to be the GOAT, but I'm just saying that's would the public perception could very well be.

nah 2nd best. He'd go down as the 2nd best. I dont believe in anything happening from this point on to make him go down as goat

There was a time where he could have given people the perception he was as good as jordan but it just didn't happen - wasn't good enough. If he wins 6 and gets high up on the list, maybe not kareem level but 33k or so... he will prob he hailed as the 2nd best.

[iamgine]

thats because hes not as recent as kobe
fixed

[LALakerFan4Life]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.
Michael Jordan will always be the greatest of all time. Michael > Magic > Kobe > LeBron

[CavaliersFTW]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

Your talking about the people who are 15 years old right now and grew up worshiping Kobe. Everyone else will speak of him highly but nobody with a brain is gonna rank him as GOAT. He's a top 10 All-Time.

[Legends66NBA7]

Actually if he passes Kareem on the all-time scoring list and wins 6 rings, I think large majority of casual fans and media pundits probably would hype him to that be the GOAT. But even if he were to accomplish that I wouldn't consider him to be the GOAT, but I'm just saying that's would the public perception could very well be.

This is true as well.... there would be the pulic perception of people who would probably consider Bryant the GOAT... even it's not true...

I'd probably think he's somewhere in the Top 5 or higher if he does what you stated, but like you also stated, I wouldn't consider him the GOAT.

[chazzy]

Not if a 60 year old Bruce Blitz has some gas left in the tank

[FindingTim]

Kobe might actually be likeable if his fans weren't so delusional. It's like you're all seeking a strong male figure to latch onto... good lord.

Kobe is an amazing scorer, a great competitor, and an all-time great.
but for much of his career he has been an inefficient scorer, a relatively low IQ player, and lacks the ability to inspire selflessness and teamwork in his teams ala Bird/Magic/Duncan.

He is basketball's version of Alex Rodriguez: incredibly skilled/talented, highly polarizing, and statistically an all-time great. But like A-Rod, Kobe should not sniff the top 5 player of all-time discussions. That conversation should be reserved for the Ruths', the Bonds', the Mays's, and the Ted Williams'.

If you consider Kobe Bryant a top 5 player of all-time, your understanding of basketball is either very raw or very abstract.
Or you are from the Los Angeles area and highly susceptible to media brainwashing.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Not if a 60 year old Bruce Blitz has some gas left in the tank

lmao, this.

[thelucifer69]

MJ was considered G.O.A.T while he still play in league in 80s,90s by NBA player, analyst and the fan. And this all before Internet. He didn't have to wait 20 yrs for recognition.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe will probably be considered as a top 5 player of all-time 5-10 years later after he retires. I don't think he is though or should be but that is the way it probably will be. The I miss you factor is pretty huge when judging greatness especially all-time greatness.

Kobe only has himself to blame for not being considered top 5 of all-time in this current day though. I think Kobe is the most skilled player of all-time but his IQ is what ultimately holds him back. If Kobe had the same brain and IQ that MJ had, Kobe would be a top 5 player of all-time at the very least. The MJ-Kobe comparison would actually be valid although MJ would still win that comparison to me and by most I suspect.

[jstern]

MJ was considered G.O.A.T while he still play in league in 80s,90s by NBA player, analyst and the fan. And this all before Internet. He didn't have to wait 20 yrs for recognition.

Also that he was also considered the GOAT by many, before he even won his first championship.

There was even a thread of forum post from the 80s and 90s... Here's a quote.


Here is just one post. Pretty interesting stuff reading what people thought back there. A lot of posts calling out Jordan before he had a title, yet some still thought he was the GOAT basketball player even when losing to the bad boy pistons. Oh and EVERYONE hated the pistons

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227563

[LABean]

GOAT basketball playing rapist, maybe.




:D


He would have raped Jordan in basketball... :bowdown:

Oh, wait. He did. :D




this
:applause:

[LALakerFan4Life]

He would have raped Jordan in basketball... :bowdown:

Oh, wait. He did. :D




:applause:
:facepalm

[NumberSix]

IMO, Kobe is one of those players that will be more highly rated in his own era then afterwards.

[Nevaeh]

Actually if he passes Kareem on the all-time scoring list and wins 6 rings, I think large majority of casual fans and media pundits probably would hype him to that be the GOAT. But even if he were to accomplish that I wouldn't consider him to be the GOAT, but I'm just saying that's would the public perception could very well be.

People were rioting and waiting in 3 hour long lines this past winter, yes WINTER for a pair of these:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SMnEbX8TL._SY395_.jpg

Kids love em:
http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg

Tom Cruise loves em:
http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/celeb-feet-tom-cruise-air-jordan-xi-concord-05.jpeg

Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg

When you still get that kind of reaction to a 17 year old shoe of yours, more than likely you did something on a GOAT level that's not easily forgotten. Kobe's going into the "Rest of us" group, like everybody else. You can thank his shot selection for that.

:cheers:

[andgar923]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

A. Nobody with any brain cells will say he's better than MJ, regardless of how many more rings.

B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.

[Boston C's]

People were rioting and waiting in 3 hour long lines this past winter, yes WINTER for a pair of these:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SMnEbX8TL._SY395_.jpg

Kids love em:
http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg

Tom Cruise loves em:
http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/celeb-feet-tom-cruise-air-jordan-xi-concord-05.jpeg

Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg

When you still get that kind of reaction to a 17 year old shoe of yours, more than likely you did something on a GOAT level that's not easily forgotten. Kobe's going into the "Rest of us" group, like everybody else. You can thank his shot selection for that.

:cheers:

and thats a wrap folks

/thread

[Sound and Fury]

In 20 years, there is a slight chance that Kobe will be remembered throughout the world as the Greatest of All Time. Here's why. (Quick disclaimer: I am not going to argue about who IS the GOAT - legitimate arguments can be made for a handful of players - this is discussing about how players are remembered/perceived).

Point 1: Most players and journalists today - and likely many on ISH - suffer the effects of a Reminiscence Bump (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reminiscence_bump) with regard to Jordan, whose prime was in their "formative years." If you're between the ages of about 20 and 40, the memory of Jordan - and his greatness - is burned so powerfully into your brain, your perspective probably isn't quite right about him (full disclosure: I'm included in this group). Be a little bit skeptical of yourself when considering your ability to objectively compare things "outside your Reminiscence Bump" with things "inside it." (It's the same reason you'll get arguments about the best music of all time based on generations - Frank Sinatra or Elvis Presley or Eddie Van Halen or Kurt Cobain or Stephen Tyler or Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber.)

Point 2: As I've argued on these boards before (not going to be bothered to search for it) that the rise of Michael Jordan happened to correspond perfectly with the explosion of a new universal medium - cable TV - and Jordan happened to be the best player on the only team that was shown on national cable TV (by way of WGN), thus allowing the Bulls to become "America's Team" because they were the only team whose games were all nationally televised. This was also during the rise of ESPN, which, at the time, was staffed by people who were fans of sport as much as journalists (I mean, look at early Chris Berman videos). With Jordan peaking and winning multiple titles during this period, it was the perfect confluence to put Jordan into the national consciousness AND allow the Reminiscence Bump to really solidify his place among a generation as the Greatest Player of the time (and thanks to the Reminiscence Bump that tends to be expanded in our minds to be the Greatest Of All Time).

It's possible that Kobe can benefit from being in a similar situation, particularly if he finds a way to win another title or two. Twenty years from now, the 30- and 40-somethings will be those who grew up watching Kobe instead of Jordan, and thus Kobe will be the one gaining the benefits of the Reminiscence bump in casual conversation (those who remember Jordan will be the equivalent of todays 50- and 60-year olds who are seen as a bit "old and out of touch" by the younger crowd - just look at the way ISH discounts those who want to talk about Wilt or Oscar or Russell as being in the GOAT conversation).

In addition, Kobe may benefit globally by the rise of a new universal media - the internet - in the same way Jordan benefitted from Cable. We already know that Kobe is incredibly popular in China. It's quite possible that in 20 years, basketball will continue to expand globally and as it does, the beneficiary of the Reminiscence Bump AND the expansion of a new media type will shift from Jordan to Kobe. (Note that this benefit should probably shift to LeBron instead of Kobe, but LeBron still needs to win a couple of titles, since "you have to win a title to be a great player" has been added post hoc ergo propter hoc to our criteria for "GOAT" status since the Magic/Bird era).

Whether or not Kobe/Jordan/Other is the GOAT, sure it's possible Kobe will be remembered by the world at large (if not current ISH junkies or even Americans, who have Jordan Jordan Jordan drilled into their heads) as the GOAT in 20 years. Likely? Maybe not. But some of the same forces that lead to Jordan currently holding the "GOAT" title in most of the ISH participants will certainly be in play in Kobe's favor in 20 years.

[Nevaeh]

Nice post S and F. You bring up good points about the "Age Factor", in terms of what you were exposed to at a certain time in your life. The problem, however is that if you're a player who the world can watch, via the internet or TV, who has blatantly obvious flaws in their game, no amount of coverage or "praise" is gonna correct that. You are who you are.

Kobe's had 16 solid years (without breaks in-between like MJ) to get to that level you're talking about, and still hasn't reached it. Jordan, by year 9 of his career, was getting GOAT talk, based on the fact that he met every criteria of what you would consider a complete Basketball player.

He passed the eye test, the stat test, the clutch test, the consistency test, and the popularity test, even after becoming a "new" player during the 95-96 season. If you have to "wait around" for someone's GOAT stature to kick in, 20 years after the fact, it was probably never there to begin with.

[Shepseskaf]

In 20 years, the most WTF thing will be how Steve Nash was a two-time MVP winner. Book it.

[ImmortalD24]

OP is a dumbass.


Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg

1st.. having a GOAT shoe brand doesn't equate to being the goat. And second.. Kobe was a shoe "free-agent" that season.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2h5jmmw.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/mmgdwx.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2q9gw0h.jpg

Iversons



http://i33.tinypic.com/20us778.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2mxiy43.jpg
Converse

and of course Jordan's from the pic you posted.. (MJ was lobbying to get Kobe signed w/ Jordan).

[LakersReign]

A. Nobody with any brain cells will say he's better than MJ, regardless of how many more rings.

B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.

Dude stop embarrassing yourself cuz that's what Lebronytes do. i.e. Mo Williams and the Cavs, Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Haslem, Anthony, on the Heat. Now I guess you're gonna tell us how "great" Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, and Kwame Brown were....right?!:sleeping

Try again:no:

[OmniStrife]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1183019_o.gif

[Odinn]

Is there any player with only 1 mvp in the goat debate?:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Blue&Orange]

Struggling to be in the Top15 is more likely.

[RazorBaLade]

Struggling to be in the Top15 is more likely.

theres no way he's lower than 12 and objective people will have him around 9.

15 , STRUGGLING for top 15, that is just absurd.

[stax]

Kids love em:
http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg


This is adorable. :D

[bwink23]

In 20 years, there is a slight chance that Kobe will be remembered throughout the world as the Greatest of All Time. Here's why. (Quick disclaimer: I am not going to argue about who IS the GOAT - legitimate arguments can be made for a handful of players - this is discussing about how players are remembered/perceived).

Point 1: Most players and journalists today - and likely many on ISH - suffer the effects of a Reminiscence Bump (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reminiscence_bump) with regard to Jordan, whose prime was in their "formative years." If you're between the ages of about 20 and 40, the memory of Jordan - and his greatness - is burned so powerfully into your brain, your perspective probably isn't quite right about him (full disclosure: I'm included in this group). Be a little bit skeptical of yourself when considering your ability to objectively compare things "outside your Reminiscence Bump" with things "inside it." (It's the same reason you'll get arguments about the best music of all time based on generations - Frank Sinatra or Elvis Presley or Eddie Van Halen or Kurt Cobain or Stephen Tyler or Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber.)

Point 2: As I've argued on these boards before (not going to be bothered to search for it) that the rise of Michael Jordan happened to correspond perfectly with the explosion of a new universal medium - cable TV - and Jordan happened to be the best player on the only team that was shown on national cable TV (by way of WGN), thus allowing the Bulls to become "America's Team" because they were the only team whose games were all nationally televised. This was also during the rise of ESPN, which, at the time, was staffed by people who were fans of sport as much as journalists (I mean, look at early Chris Berman videos). With Jordan peaking and winning multiple titles during this period, it was the perfect confluence to put Jordan into the national consciousness AND allow the Reminiscence Bump to really solidify his place among a generation as the Greatest Player of the time (and thanks to the Reminiscence Bump that tends to be expanded in our minds to be the Greatest Of All Time).

It's possible that Kobe can benefit from being in a similar situation, particularly if he finds a way to win another title or two. Twenty years from now, the 30- and 40-somethings will be those who grew up watching Kobe instead of Jordan, and thus Kobe will be the one gaining the benefits of the Reminiscence bump in casual conversation (those who remember Jordan will be the equivalent of todays 50- and 60-year olds who are seen as a bit "old and out of touch" by the younger crowd - just look at the way ISH discounts those who want to talk about Wilt or Oscar or Russell as being in the GOAT conversation).

In addition, Kobe may benefit globally by the rise of a new universal media - the internet - in the same way Jordan benefitted from Cable. We already know that Kobe is incredibly popular in China. It's quite possible that in 20 years, basketball will continue to expand globally and as it does, the beneficiary of the Reminiscence Bump AND the expansion of a new media type will shift from Jordan to Kobe. (Note that this benefit should probably shift to LeBron instead of Kobe, but LeBron still needs to win a couple of titles, since "you have to win a title to be a great player" has been added post hoc ergo propter hoc to our criteria for "GOAT" status since the Magic/Bird era).

Whether or not Kobe/Jordan/Other is the GOAT, sure it's possible Kobe will be remembered by the world at large (if not current ISH junkies or even Americans, who have Jordan Jordan Jordan drilled into their heads) as the GOAT in 20 years. Likely? Maybe not. But some of the same forces that lead to Jordan currently holding the "GOAT" title in most of the ISH participants will certainly be in play in Kobe's favor in 20 years.


This is NOT a true statement...."Jordan happened to be the best player on the only team that was shown on national cable TV (by way of WGN), thus allowing the Bulls to become "America's Team" because they were the only team whose games were all nationally televised." - Not all games were televised.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/961/961.F2d.667.91-1434.html



WGN-TV, channel 9 in Chicago, is called a superstation because cable systems throughout the nation carry its signal. During the 1990-91 season WGN telecast 25 games of the Chicago Bulls, one of 27 teams in the National Basketball Association. During the 1991-92 season WGN will telecast 30 of the Bulls' regular-season games. This is a boon to fans, for, apart from the seven contests broadcast on network TV, the remainder of the Bulls' 82 regular-season games appear on SportsChannel, which is available only on cable. It is a boon as well to the Bulls' owners, who collect larger royalties from WGN than from SportsChannel, in light of WGN's greater audience. But it is a bane to the other clubs, which would prefer to have fans watch their contests rather than tune in the Bulls, who, thanks to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen (to name only the Olympians), are the winningest and most popular team in the NBA.


During Jordan's rise, the only way you were gonna watch every game was through Sportsvision which was on cable and not available to everyone. Only those in Chicago with cable could get all the Bulls games.

[rodman91]

20 years later...still greatest.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/37500/Old-Michael-Jordan--37592.jpg

[bwink23]

20 years later...still greatest.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/37500/Old-Michael-Jordan--37592.jpg


That looks more like 40 years later....:lol

[bwink23]

As long as their is film available, record books to look at, stat sheets, and the world wide web....Kobe will NEVER be considered the greatest.

[Lebron23]

He's a very exciting player. Kobe will never be forgotten.

[guy]

:oldlol: Tom Cruise with Jordan's on.

I really don't see Kobe winning anymore. Maybe 1 more, but 2 more? Doubtful. And that 1 more will have to come from Andrew Bynum having that 1 season where he is totally healthy, which may or may not ever come. Would've been different if Howard came over like everyone was predicting him to at one point.

Even if he wins 1 more to tie Jordan, with the internet and video, people will point out Jordan's 4 more MVPs, 3-4 more Final MVPs, his vastly superior statistics, and just the fact that he's a better player. There still won't be much of an argument for Kobe. If he stays at 5 titles, then I can't imagine what people can come up with.

[NumberSix]

Kids love em:
http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg

Tom Cruise loves em:
http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/celeb-feet-tom-cruise-air-jordan-xi-concord-05.jpeg

Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg
Funny thing is every one of these people got theirs for free.

[YAWN]

As timeless as Kobe possibly could be, a lot of things don't get better with age.

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

Offcourse, that's not my claim, but we won't know how well Kobe's legacy will age (no matter how timless he is), until he retires.

Nah, his overall resume is already on par or better than all of the consensus top 5'ers. And he is only adding to it with each season.

[D-Wade316]

20 years later...still greatest.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/37500/Old-Michael-Jordan--37592.jpg
:wtf:

[NumberSix]

If people over time forgot how great Jordan was to the point that they compare the likes of Kobe to him, how bad you think they're gonna forget Kobe? 20 years from now, they'll probably be trying to compare Kobe to Melo calibre players.

[AlphaWolf24]

20 years from now Kobe will be viewed as at least #1 - #2 alltime.....

2040' (logs onto ISH via I Brain)...

Kobe stan - "remember Kobe dropped 42 points on MJ in 1 1/2 quarters....Kobe was a much better player then MJ"

MJ stan - "Kobe can't hold MJ's underwear strap....Kobe shot .4% lower....45% vs 49%"

[andgar923]

Dude stop embarrassing yourself cuz that's what Lebronytes do. i.e. Mo Williams and the Cavs, Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Haslem, Anthony, on the Heat. Now I guess you're gonna tell us how "great" Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, and Kwame Brown were....right?!:sleeping

Try again:no:

Are you f*ckin stupid?

[AlexanderRight]

Kobe might actually be likeable if his fans weren't so delusional. It's like you're all seeking a strong male figure to latch onto... good lord.

Kobe is an amazing scorer, a great competitor, and an all-time great.
but for much of his career he has been an inefficient scorer, a relatively low IQ player, and lacks the ability to inspire selflessness and teamwork in his teams ala Bird/Magic/Duncan.

He is basketball's version of Alex Rodriguez: incredibly skilled/talented, highly polarizing, and statistically an all-time great. But like A-Rod, Kobe should not sniff the top 5 player of all-time discussions. That conversation should be reserved for the Ruths', the Bonds', the Mays's, and the Ted Williams'.

If you consider Kobe Bryant a top 5 player of all-time, your understanding of basketball is either very raw or very abstract.
Or you are from the Los Angeles area and highly susceptible to media brainwashing.

:applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

Is there any player with only 1 mvp in the goat debate?:oldlol: :oldlol:

Well I've heard of Oscar Robertson getting that treatment...

[Legends66NBA7]

Not if a 60 year old Bruce Blitz has some gas left in the tank

I think he stated he might be doing what he does, 20 years from now.... yeah....

Funny you mention him too, he's the one who stated this:


I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

What's funny is, that I remember last season, he said if Kobe won MVP and Finals MVP, he would have no problem putting him in the Top. Now he feels that there's "no way" he's Top 10. Top 20, yes. Top 10 ? Lot of expletives and no.



Nah, his overall resume is already on par or better than all of the consensus top 5'ers. And he is only adding to it with each season.

I agree, yes. It's just the future generation I'm concerned will put it in perspective.

[BlackJoker23]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.
he's the goat with ease. only dumb idiots aka jordan/lebrick cvmguzzlers rank him any lower than top one and old school fans who back up 60s trash

[stephanieg]

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.


It's OK, we can laugh at Kobe fans right now too.

[bwink23]

20 years from now Kobe will be viewed as at least #1 - #2 alltime.....

2040' (logs onto ISH via I Brain)...

Kobe stan - "remember Kobe dropped 42 points on MJ in 1 1/2 quarters....Kobe was a much better player then MJ"

MJ stan - "Kobe can't hold MJ's underwear strap....Kobe shot .4% lower....45% vs 49%"


:facepalm

Then they'll look at the footage and say, "HEY, MJ was 40 years old and wasn't even guarding Kobe....Kobe went in on Stackhouse and Tyrone Lou!"

Then they'll say "Hey! Jordan shot 4% better, not .4%....where did this stan learn Math!"

:D

[Faptastrophe]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.
http://i.imgur.com/ByDal.png

[k0kakw0rld]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.
6 rings and 3 finals mvp maybe.

MJ 6 rings 6 finals mvp add 5 regular season mvp. Kobe has only 1 so how can he be the GOAT?

There is no way :facepalm

[Bigsmoke]

I disagree but i know Ray Allen will get overrated to death 20 years from now.

i can feel it.

[TheMan]

http://xa3.xanga.com/318e224b33c37279819367/z222911976.png

[HurricaneKid]

Are you f*ckin stupid?

Yes. Yes, he is.

FYI, he is the reason I sought out the ignore process. Save yourself the frustration and do the same.

[TheMan]

Do people seriously think Kobe is the greatest basketball player of all time? I thought it was a joke at first, but really?? Dude isn't even top 5.
Just the Kobetards...thank God most people don't.

[Soundwave]

He'll be remembered like Magic/Bird are today. Highly thought of but generally not considered GOAT.

Kids will move on and have some new SG/SF that they think is the greatest.

[TheMan]

In 20 years, there is a slight chance that Kobe will be remembered throughout the world as the Greatest of All Time. Here's why. (Quick disclaimer: I am not going to argue about who IS the GOAT - legitimate arguments can be made for a handful of players - this is discussing about how players are remembered/perceived).

Point 1: Most players and journalists today - and likely many on ISH - suffer the effects of a Reminiscence Bump (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reminiscence_bump) with regard to Jordan, whose prime was in their "formative years." If you're between the ages of about 20 and 40, the memory of Jordan - and his greatness - is burned so powerfully into your brain, your perspective probably isn't quite right about him (full disclosure: I'm included in this group). Be a little bit skeptical of yourself when considering your ability to objectively compare things "outside your Reminiscence Bump" with things "inside it." (It's the same reason you'll get arguments about the best music of all time based on generations - Frank Sinatra or Elvis Presley or Eddie Van Halen or Kurt Cobain or Stephen Tyler or Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber.)

Point 2: As I've argued on these boards before (not going to be bothered to search for it) that the rise of Michael Jordan happened to correspond perfectly with the explosion of a new universal medium - cable TV - and Jordan happened to be the best player on the only team that was shown on national cable TV (by way of WGN), thus allowing the Bulls to become "America's Team" because they were the only team whose games were all nationally televised. This was also during the rise of ESPN, which, at the time, was staffed by people who were fans of sport as much as journalists (I mean, look at early Chris Berman videos). With Jordan peaking and winning multiple titles during this period, it was the perfect confluence to put Jordan into the national consciousness AND allow the Reminiscence Bump to really solidify his place among a generation as the Greatest Player of the time (and thanks to the Reminiscence Bump that tends to be expanded in our minds to be the Greatest Of All Time).

It's possible that Kobe can benefit from being in a similar situation, particularly if he finds a way to win another title or two. Twenty years from now, the 30- and 40-somethings will be those who grew up watching Kobe instead of Jordan, and thus Kobe will be the one gaining the benefits of the Reminiscence bump in casual conversation (those who remember Jordan will be the equivalent of todays 50- and 60-year olds who are seen as a bit "old and out of touch" by the younger crowd - just look at the way ISH discounts those who want to talk about Wilt or Oscar or Russell as being in the GOAT conversation).

In addition, Kobe may benefit globally by the rise of a new universal media - the internet - in the same way Jordan benefitted from Cable. We already know that Kobe is incredibly popular in China. It's quite possible that in 20 years, basketball will continue to expand globally and as it does, the beneficiary of the Reminiscence Bump AND the expansion of a new media type will shift from Jordan to Kobe. (Note that this benefit should probably shift to LeBron instead of Kobe, but LeBron still needs to win a couple of titles, since "you have to win a title to be a great player" has been added post hoc ergo propter hoc to our criteria for "GOAT" status since the Magic/Bird era).

Whether or not Kobe/Jordan/Other is the GOAT, sure it's possible Kobe will be remembered by the world at large (if not current ISH junkies or even Americans, who have Jordan Jordan Jordan drilled into their heads) as the GOAT in 20 years. Likely? Maybe not. But some of the same forces that lead to Jordan currently holding the "GOAT" title in most of the ISH participants will certainly be in play in Kobe's favor in 20 years.
Or you can look at the stats and accomplisments...MJ>Kobe

[LABean]

Give me Kobe over any self-proclaimed GOAT. :bowdown:

[bwink23]

Give me Kobe over any self-proclaimed GOAT. :bowdown:


You can have him....:D

[LABean]

You can have him....:D

We have him, and he's gotten us 5 championships. 6 after this season.
:party:

[bwink23]

We have him, and he's gotten us 5 championships. 6 after this season.
:party:


Wishful Thinking....:D

[LABean]

Wishful Thinking....:D
:lol


You're all right. :cheers:

[CelticBaller]

He'd be viewed as GOAT by his fans. While the rest of the world still views Jordan as the GOAT
no shit OP

[guy]

Nah, his overall resume is already on par or better than all of the consensus top 5'ers. And he is only adding to it with each season.

Resumes don't mean everything, but his resume is definitely well behind the resume of Jordan, Magic, Kareem, and Russell. Its really not even that close either.

[T.O.RapsJays]

Kobe GOAT... :yaohappy:

[truhooper]

kobe will be bernard king status :roll: :cheers:

[SlayerEnraged]

As timeless as Kobe possibly could be, a lot of things don't get better with age.

I've heard one very interesting claim that people from 20 years from now (the generation that never saw Kobe)... might not even have Kobe in their Top 20 and probably might not even have him in their Top 30 and that generation would laugh at the generation of today putting Kobe in their Top 10.

Offcourse, that's not my claim, but we won't know how well Kobe's legacy will age (no matter how timless he is), until he retires.

I don't think the decline is gonna happen very fast. Sorry but u don't go from averaging 29ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.8apg to under 20ppg in a matter of 2 seasons.

[Yanch856]

I don't think the decline is gonna happen very fast. Sorry but u don't go from averaging 29ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.8apg to under 20ppg in a matter of 2 seasons.

I don't think you get it. Kobe won't be remembered as GOAT; the best case scenario would be remembered as the second greatest shooting guard BEHIND MICHAEL JORDAN. And it's not just about his stats. I don't care if Kobe goes on to score 20+ppg for another 5 yrs on 30% FG percentage. Jordan had 10x the charisma that Kobe has. Kobe's condescending demeanor doesn't help him either. It's like boxing (I don't know much about boxing)- and MJ is probably more transcending than Muhammad Ali. Also let's be real Kobe is too polarised a sports figure to be remembered as GOAT.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

He'd be viewed as GOAT by his fans. While the rest of the world still views Jordan as the GOAT
no shit OP
I'm a fan and I will not view him as GOAT...unless some miracle happened like winning 4 more championships with a few more Champ MVPs. Ain't gonna happen. He is not even GOAT Laker.

[bwink23]

I'm a fan and I will not view him as GOAT...unless some miracle happened like winning 4 more championships with a few more Champ MVPs. Ain't gonna happen. He is not even GOAT Laker.


Who's your GOAT Laker?

[Lebron23]

Who's your GOAT Laker?


It's probably Magic Johnson. 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x Regular Season MVP, and led the NBA in assists per game in '83,'84','86 and '87.

[TheMan]

It's probably Magic Johnson. 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x Regular Season MVP, and led the NBA in assists per game in '83,'84','86 and '87.
I saw prime Magic and Kobe...Magic>Kobe

[ImmortalD24]

I saw prime Magic and Kobe...Magic>Kobe
Saw him too... Kobe> Magic imo.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Saw him too... Kobe> Magic imo.

Lying sack of crap. You were one of those fools spouting that "ZONE defense" garbage with Alborz. You're no older than 25. :oldlol:

[SwooshReturns]

You were one of those fools spouting that "ZONE defense" garbage with Alborz. You're no older than 25.
He is Alborz's guy ... and they were saying that idiotic stuff. And no, he didn't see Magic in his prime. He's like 3 or 4 years younger than me, and I was just old enough to see MJ in his prime. So there is no way he saw Magic in his.

[Legends66NBA7]

Lying sack of crap. You were one of those fools spouting that "ZONE defense" garbage with Alborz. You're no older than 25. :oldlol:

That moron is the biggest scum of the basketball community.

Can't believe people actually bought that garbage he was saying in those edited videos, where he didn't even know what the difference between a double team and zone was...

:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

I know. I used to talk to the guy, and he was just insane. Literally. I hate re-telling it ... but it's too priceless not to tell it.

Alborz stalked Kobe at a guy's wedding, got dressed and everything and managed to sneak inside ... walked in on Kobe in the bathroom just to ask for an autograph / picture. Posted it one time, can't even see his face due to the camera light, and Kobe looks visibly un-comfortable haha

Yeah, there's two people have I have come across who brought up this story.

I recall Bruce Blitz said it in one of his videos/podcast or whatever... and re told what Alborz was saying word for word about what he was doing and he posted on his YouTube account or something. Like who does that ?

:oldlol:. Plus, Bruce and Alborz had that whole "war" on YouTube about that topic of "zone defense" vs old school defense. An stalker Jordan vs stalker Kobe fanatics, it's seems...

And I also came across a thread by catch24, who had that exact picture or whatever, but the url got moved.

The internet has some strange individuals....

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That moron is the biggest scum of the basketball community.

Can't believe people actually bought that garbage he was saying in those edited videos, where he didn't even know what the difference between a double team and zone was...

:facepalm

I used to have him on MSN, kid had some serious delusions of grandeur. After Youtube started updating their (now HORRIBLE) website, he tried bringing that noise here and was completely thrashed.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136831
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123389
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116232

Some of the funniest shit you will see. :oldlol: Props to Dondadda for embarrassing that loon, and eventually getting him banned.

[Legends66NBA7]

I used to have him on MSN, kid had some serious delusions of grandeur. After Youtube started updating their (now HORRIBLE) website, he tried bringing that noise here and was completely thrashed.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136831
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123389
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116232

Some of the funniest shit you will see. :oldlol: Props to Dondadda for embarrassing that loon, and eventually getting him banned.

:oldlol: I've seen those exact threads before I joined ISH. The same noise Bruce and Alborz was came to ISH, it's too bad I didn't catch up on it before, but they were enjoyable reads, nonetheless...

I couldn't believe some of the B.S. he was stating. But yeah man, props to Don for setting him straight.

You seen this before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CrNRkyU9U0

Ownage at it's finest. :oldlol:

[CelticBaller]

I'm a fan and I will not view him as GOAT...unless some miracle happened like winning 4 more championships with a few more Champ MVPs. Ain't gonna happen. He is not even GOAT Laker.
By his fans i meant his ******gers. the ones that can say Kobe>kareem with a straighface

[gengiskhan]

In 20 years from now. Kobe will still be remembered as GOAT wannabe.

someone who got illegetimately conceived by MJ's sperm accidentially off toilet seat sharing.

[LakersReign]

Are you f*ckin stupid?

.............is really all this a**clown(andgar23) can think of to say now cuz he can't and won't produce this so called list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans), then thrown under the bus. Big surprise. Go right ahead and tell us "great" Smush Parker was.:sleeping

[G-Funk]

If Kobe wins 10 rings he still won't be the GOAT.
eyeball test man, eyeball test.



10 Rings 7 Finals MVP = GOAT, Don't matter who you are!

[bwink23]

:oldlol: I've seen those exact threads before I joined ISH. The same noise Bruce and Alborz was came to ISH, it's too bad I didn't catch up on it before, but they were enjoyable reads, nonetheless...

I couldn't believe some of the B.S. he was stating. But yeah man, props to Don for setting him straight.

You seen this before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CrNRkyU9U0



Ownage at it's finest. :oldlol:




LOL, Alborz.....:lol Believe it or not, i used to frequent his channel first before i went to Bruce's page. I always sat in on video streams of Lakers games with the other Kobe fanboys on his site. Since Alborz was good about not banning anyone, We had a few Jordan jockers who would stop in on his site and bag on him every day. It took a few months but eventually he got sick of me and gave me the boot....:lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jruNJwre9s

check out the comment's section on the guy's youtube page...:D

[andgar923]

.............is really all this a**clown(andgar23) can think of to say now cuz he can't and won't produce this so called list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans), then thrown under the bus. Big surprise. Go right ahead and tell us "great" Smush Parker was.:sleeping

You called me a Bron fanboy, which anybody here will tell you I am not.

And funny enough, most of the players you mentioned were in fact the same players some Laker fans hailed when they got there, then they thew under the bus.

[andgar923]

If I can defend Kpah for a sec.....

Whether you hated or loved him or his idiotic rants, his videos were on point. He made some classic vids, that obviously had enough of an impact that even pro journalist and big time bloggers believed.

I give him props for almost single handedly, warping the minds of an entire sports cult, either directly or indirectly. His videos were so convincing that his lies became the truth to many viewers. And honestly, that deserves some props, no matter what you feel about the dude or the content of his vids.

[bwink23]

If I can defend Kpah for a sec.....

Whether you hated or loved him or his idiotic rants, his videos were on point. He made some classic vids, that obviously had enough of an impact that even pro journalist and big time bloggers believed.

I give him props for almost single handedly, warping the minds of an entire sports cult, either directly or indirectly. His videos were so convincing that his lies became the truth to many viewers. And honestly, that deserves some props, no matter what you feel about the dude or the content of his vids.




Until Jordanhair totally owned his ass with this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd2Wqt21_Yo

[AlphaWolf24]

Until Jordanhair totally owned his ass with this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd2Wqt21_Yo

that video is horrible....double teaming MJ on a inbounds play is not equal to a zone defense...:lol

and hardly any clips of MJ in the 80's playing 1 on 1....and the funniest part..

the announcers are even screaming "OMG they are doubling MJ!!"....like it's a freak occurence....


happens nearly every play in todays game.

[jstern]

that video is horrible....double teaming MJ on a inbounds play is not equal to a zone defense...:lol

and hardly any clips of MJ in the 80's playing 1 on 1....and the funniest part..

the announcers are even screaming "OMG they are doubling MJ!!"....like it's a freak occurence....


happens nearly every play in todays game.

You have to watch the video that this is responding to for it to make sense. Haven't watched it in two years, but it was a video that fanatical Kobe fan like you made that I believed said something like double teams were illegal or something in the 90s. It was a lot of misleading BS, and the video had over 500,000 views with a lot of people like you *********ing to it. This Jordan video took the audio of the Kobe one.

[KingLeBronJames]

Is there any player with only 1 mvp in the goat debate?:oldlol: :oldlol:
Shaq.

[LakersReign]

You called me a Bron fanboy, which anybody here will tell you I am not.

And funny enough, most of the players you mentioned were in fact the same players some Laker fans hailed when they got there, then they thew under the bus.

Clown(andgar23), please stop embarrassing yourself. Funny how Lebronytes LOVE to bash on Laker/Kobe fans, but NEVER have the balls to admit that they're really Lebronytes. I noticed how all you can do is prattle on and on but STILL can't and won't find that list you were talking about. The only people who EVER hailed Smush Parker as some "godsend" as far as a Laker championship was concerned, is know nothing about basketball morons like you, making sh*t up just to say something. Which it's real obvious to see that's exactly what you're doing.

GTFOH!!!!

[Lebron23]

http://www.broccolicity.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/www.medicalinsurance.png

[chips93]

that video is horrible....double teaming MJ on a inbounds play is not equal to a zone defense...:lol

and hardly any clips of MJ in the 80's playing 1 on 1....and the funniest part..

the announcers are even screaming "OMG they are doubling MJ!!"....like it's a freak occurence....


happens nearly every play in todays game.

im not gonna get into it in detail

but a double back then, due to rule changes, was a much stronger double

you had to commit to doubling, you couldnt half way double, or 'dig in' like you can today

[LABean]

Imo, Kobe is already the GOAT.

InB4 Your opinion doesn't count.

:hammertime:

[bwink23]

Imo, Kobe is already the GOAT.

InB4 Your opinion doesn't count.

:hammertime:


No one cares for your opinion....as it's rooted in biasness.

[LABean]

No one cares for your opinion....as it's rooted in biasness.

That's what I posted. :kobe:

[bwink23]

That's what I posted. :kobe:


No it isn't...you said your opinion doesn't count....it was counted, and taken with a big fat grain of salt.

[LABean]

No it isn't...you said your opinion doesn't count....it was counted, and taken with a big fat grain of salt.


You are a very smart person. :cheers:

[andgar923]

Clown(andgar23), please stop embarrassing yourself. Funny how Lebronytes LOVE to bash on Laker/Kobe fans, but NEVER have the balls to admit that they're really Lebronytes. I noticed how all you can do is prattle on and on but STILL can't and won't find that list you were talking about. The only people who EVER hailed Smush Parker as some "godsend" as far as a Laker championship was concerned, is know nothing about basketball morons like you, making sh*t up just to say something. Which it's real obvious to see that's exactly what you're doing.

GTFOH!!!!

Yeah... I'm a huge Lebron fan.

:rolleyes:

Idiot.

Only Bron fans 'bash' Kobe fans... :rolleyes: cause that's exactly what I do, is bash him and never ever give him props.

And you must have either lived under a rock or were too young to remember, but players like Mihm, Smush, Rice, Samaki, Chucky and others were indeed hailed by some Laker fans. They'd go online and start pounding their chests just like they are right now with their latest acquisition. But when their expectations don't become reality, they throw those players under the bus.

[andgar923]

that video is horrible....double teaming MJ on a inbounds play is not equal to a zone defense...:lol

and hardly any clips of MJ in the 80's playing 1 on 1....and the funniest part..

the announcers are even screaming "OMG they are doubling MJ!!"....like it's a freak occurence....


happens nearly every play in todays game.
The video was basically mirroring the Kobe vids, almost to a tee. One can cherry pick a play here and there, but the overall point was still made and was on point.

My fav vids were the ones in which you stated that MJ never saw double or triple teams, yet I made a series of vids debunking your claims. But you used to ban my video replies.

Every single video that you made was debunked, by multiple people at that.

There was even a number of your loyal fans that switched sides when the learned the truth, and laughed at your pathetic attempts to warp and rewrite history.

But I will always give you props for making great vids, nobody can take that away from you. Aside from your agenda filled videos, your highlight vids are amongst the best.

[jstern]

The video was basically mirroring the Kobe vids, almost to a tee. One can cherry pick a play here and there, but the overall point was still made and was on point.

My fav vids were the ones in which you stated that MJ never saw double or triple teams, yet I made a series of vids debunking your claims. But you used to ban my video replies.

Every single video that you made was debunked, by multiple people at that.

There was even a number of your loyal fans that switched sides when the learned the truth, and laughed at your pathetic attempts to warp and rewrite history.

But I will always give you props for making great vids, nobody can take that away from you. Aside from your agenda filled videos, your highlight vids are amongst the best.

So AlphaWolf24 is the one that made that ridiculous video about zone and 90s defense?

[LakersReign]

Yeah... I'm a huge Lebron fan.

:rolleyes:

Idiot.

Only Bron fans 'bash' Kobe fans... :rolleyes: cause that's exactly what I do, is bash him and never ever give him props.

And you must have either lived under a rock or were too young to remember, but players like Mihm, Smush, Rice, Samaki, Chucky and others were indeed hailed by some Laker fans. They'd go online and start pounding their chests just like they are right now with their latest acquisition. But when their expectations don't become reality, they throw those players under the bus.


Just love coming online and learning things about myself from people who don't know me or know a damn thing about me.:sleeping

Oh, and by the way, the only thing outstanding about Smush Parker was that he scored 20 points in the first 4 games of the '05 season, and then fizzled after that. Which is why he eventuually lost his spot in the starting rotation to Jordan Farmar. If I'm not mistaken, that team was also a 7th seed in the playoffs, and eventually got eliminated by the Suns.:facepalm

Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....Laker fans expected him to bring them a title and then when he didn't, they "threw him under the bus.":roll:

GTFOH!!!!

[bizil]

As great as Kobe is, he most likely won't be remembered as the GOAT. GOAT shit factors solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, and impact on the L. Kobe has all of these in spades. And I feel he's clearly in the top 10 GOAT of all time. I feel the Super Six of the top ten GOAT are:

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Bird

These six are GODS! All six redefined their position. Kobe as great as he is didn't redefined his position like these six guys. Kobe is the closest thing to MJ no doubt. But u can't out MJ MJ! When it comes to redefining a position, that factors into impact on the L. So even though Kobe's resume stands up to the best of them, his TOTAL IMPACT on the L isn't on the level of the super six.

Once MJ retired, I feel Shaq and AI were the faces of the L. Kobe was right up there, but NOBODY was bigger than Shaq and AI to the masses. Then Bron came along and became the face of the L. For whatever reason, it seemed Kobe was never adored on the level of Shaq, AI, or Bron to the masses. He was the best player in the world for several years, which is really the bottom line.

But in terms of marketing, being adored by the masses, etc. Kobe never had it on lock like MJ, Magic, Dr. J, Bird. Or Shaq, AI, Bron. I think it's a combo of never really having that ultimate shoe, his swagger, and controversial issues off the court. Don't get me wrong Kobe is a big deal and a transcendant figure. But MJ, Magic, Dr.J, Bird, Shaq, AI, and Bron it seemed had a lil something extra in that regard.

[bizil]

In the hypothetical sense, and MJ-Kobe duel would be closer than ranking them on a GOAT list. Kobe has the size, skillset, and killer instinct to provide MJ his stiffest challenge at the SG position. But a GOAT list factors a lot of factors. Guys like MJ, Ruth, Ali, and Jim Brown are so iconic that its hard to pass them by. Even if u are comparable in talent and resume. And guys like Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Russell are right around that level as well.

[ImmortalD24]

It's funny how you guys are taking the OP seriously.. Dude is a complete troll, most likely a gimmick account.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eFCxiXrhwrEJ:207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D243751+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk

[Horatio33]

Magic, Bird, Russell even Jordan have gone down in some peoples estimation since they retired. Wilt has gone down in estimations more than any player ever. You Think a guy in the 8-10 range of all time like Kobe will go up to number one AFTER he retires? No, nobody goes up in these lists after retirement, only down. Happens to every player.

There will be another player beloved like Kobe. Could say LeBron is by his fanbase. Jordan was way more beloved than Kobe or LeBron. Was up there with Princess Diana and Michael Jackson as the most famous of their time. Don't hear much about Jordan outside of basketball now.

New players will come along and people will be in a hurry to move them up the all time ranking. it happens. You will have to deal with it.

[andgar923]

Just love coming online and learning things about myself from people who don't know me or know a damn thing about me.:sleeping

Oh, and by the way, the only thing outstanding about Smush Parker was that he scored 20 points in the first 4 games of the '05 season, and then fizzled after that. Which is why he eventuually lost his spot in the starting rotation to Jordan Farmar. If I'm not mistaken, that team was also a 7th seed in the playoffs, and eventually got eliminated by the Suns.:facepalm

Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....Laker fans expected him to bring them a title and then when he didn't, they "threw him under the bus.":roll:

GTFOH!!!!


Either I'm not being clear (which is my fault), you lack reading comprehension, or you truly are this stupid.... dunno which one it is.

[NumberSix]

Magic, Bird, Russell even Jordan have gone down in some peoples estimation since they retired. Wilt has gone down in estimations more than any player ever. You Think a guy in the 8-10 range of all time like Kobe will go up to number one AFTER he retires? No, nobody goes up in these lists after retirement, only down. Happens to every player.
This. Everybody slowly fades away after their own time. Right now Kobe is a DEBATABLE top 10 calibre player. I think it's safe to say that 5-10 years after his retirement people's memory and opinion of him will dip significantly lower. I mean, people have ALREADY forgotten how much better Shaq was then Kobe. It hasn't even been 10 years. They weren't even remotely close.

I honestly see Kobe being used as an argument piece 20 years from now. Like when somebody over rates some player just because they were on championship teams, other people will scoff and say "So? Kobe Bryant had 5, so that doesn't prove anything".

In the long run, I don't see him being remembered as being better than a Charles Barkley or a Dwyane Wade.

[Horatio33]

In the long run, I don't see him being remembered as being better than a Charles Barkley or a Dwyane Wade.

Nah i'm a Kobe 'hater', He will be regarded as better than those two. Twenty years time he will be boarderline top ten. Depending on Howard (debatable), LeBron (kind of debatable) Durant (good chance) or Rose (Long shot).

[LakersReign]

Either I'm not being clear (which is my fault), you lack reading comprehension, or you truly are this stupid.... dunno which one it is.

My reading comprehension skills are fine, considering that I already knew how completely full of sh*t you(andgar923) truly are, when you posted this piece of delusional hot garbage, desperately trying to pass it off as fact.:facepalm

B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

Then as usual, whenever challenged, and presented with ACTUAL FACTS. The absolute best obvious know nothing about anything morons(andgar923) like you can do, is respond with personal attacks. Further proving your(andgar923) real age and maturity level, being that you(andgar923) made it all up to begin with. GTFOH!!!!

[NumberSix]

Nah i'm a Kobe 'hater', He will be regarded as better than those two. Twenty years time he will be boarderline top ten. Depending on Howard (debatable), LeBron (kind of debatable) Durant (good chance) or Rose (Long shot).
Keep in mind, over the next 20 years, there's gonna be a lot more than just Dwight, LeBron, KD & Rose. 10 years from now there's gonna be guys that are like 15 right now who people will be saying "this guy will be top 10 at the end of his career".

[LJJ]

In 20 years people see Kobe only won 1 MVP award, that he can only really claim 1 MVP award, and they will understand that Kobe belongs a couple of notches below the likes of Moses Malone.

[Nevaeh]

OP is a dumbass.


1st.. having a GOAT shoe brand doesn't equate to being the goat. And second.. Kobe was a shoe "free-agent" that season.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2h5jmmw.jpg

Other Pics:

Iversons



http://i33.tinypic.com/20us778.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2mxiy43.jpg
Converse

and of course Jordan's from the pic you posted.. (MJ was lobbying to get Kobe signed w/ Jordan).

You got that a bit backwards son:



Bryant paid $8million to get out of his six-year contract with Adidas Salomon about a year ago. He wore several brands of shoes last season while negotiating with Nike and Reebok.

http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/151608/now-nike-signs-up-kobe

Nothing about Jordan there, sorry:



Kobe rocking Air Jordan 1s AFTER signing Nike contract:

http://www.upscalehype.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/6.jpg


Kobe rocking Air Jordan 13s AFTER signing Nike contract:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ISGQy1BRue0/TazWVUKLLEI/AAAAAAAAAuY/DcWT0QCLeHA/s1600/kobe-bryant-flint-air-jordan-xiii.png

These pics above were from this past 2011 season:


Kobe Bryant was spotted rocking the Jordan XIII "Flints" entering the building to their first game of the playoff series against the New Orleans Hornets. Unfortunately, the sneaker didn't help as they lost to the Hornets by 9 points. What will Kobe wear to their second game?

http://fitted24seven.blogspot.com/2011/04/kobe-bryant-rocks-jordan-xiii-flints.html

Kobe continues to Honor and recognize MJs greatness, but his Stans simply can't wrap their minds around it.
:oldlol:


In parting, there's nothing cuter than females rocking Js:

http://theshoegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/cassie-wearing-true-blue-air-jordan-iii-3.jpg
http://jordandepot.com/retro-jordans/images/hot-girls-wearing-jordans-trish-02.jpg
http://passportpaper.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/kate-upton-wearing-air-jordan-7.jpg

[D-Wade316]

In the long run, I don't see him being remembered as being better than a Charles Barkley or a Dwyane Wade.
:applause:

[andgar923]

You(andgar923) made some sh*t up, trying to pass it off as fact, just to have something to say. And that was CLEAR AS CRYSTAL from jump. And when you were presented with ACTUAL FACTS, all you could respond with is pathetic so called personal attacks. Further proving you(andgar923) truly have no clue of what you're talking about.:hammerhead:

GTFOH!!!!
You keep getting dumber and dumber. What did I make up? What FACTS are you even referring too?

And YOU started with the personnal attacks you dimwit. You started fabricating shit, not me.

[LakersReign]

You keep getting dumber and dumber. What did I make up? What FACTS are you even referring too?

And YOU started with the personnal attacks you dimwit. You started fabricating shit, not me.

Just gotta love it how all he(andgar923) can do now is throw hilarious temper tantrums. STILL proving exactly how completely full of sh*t, he(andgar923) TRULY is.:roll:


B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....as a 7th seed with Smush Parker(averaging 11 points per game that really lit up the scoreboard), Laker fans expected him to bring the Lakers a title. And when he didn't they threw him under the bus." So....according to you(andgar923) Laker fans were all supposedly talking Laker championship, when they signed Shammond Williams back in '06, too....right?!:sleeping


GTFOH!!!!

[DMAVS41]

No.

Time might push him ahead of Bird, Duncan, and Shaq because his career accomplishments will be better.

That is as high as he can go most likely.

[Punpun]

Pretty easy. You have the trio at the top "Kareem, MJ, Magic" in no particular order. Then you have the rest og the Great of all time. And Kobe is on top of them. So kobe is fourth. Five if you have a boner for Wilt. THat's all there is to it.

[305Baller]

Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.

:rockon:

And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/57746_o.gif

[Faptastrophe]

Pretty easy. You have the trio at the top "Kareem, MJ, Magic" in no particular order. Then you have the rest og the Great of all time. And Kobe is on top of them. So kobe is fourth. Five if you have a boner for Wilt. THat's all there is to it.
Just stop that. In no universe would Kobe be better than Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Oscar and Erving.

His place in all-time list is somewhere near Shaq, Hakeem and Malone.

[Whoah10115]

By far and away the best Kobe I've ever seen.

[andgar923]

Just gotta love it how all he(andgar923) can do now is throw hilarious temper tantrums. STILL proving exactly how completely full of sh*t, he(andgar923) TRULY is.:roll:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....as a 7th seed with Smush Parker(averaging 11 points per game that really lit up the scoreboard), Laker fans expected him to bring the Lakers a title. And when he didn't they threw him under the bus." So....according to you(andgar923) Laker fans were all supposedly talking Laker championship, when they signed Shammond Williams back in '06, too....right?!:sleeping


GTFOH!!!!I'm seriously thinking you're just trolling, you can't be this clueless.

[brownmamba00]

Just stop that. In no universe would Kobe be better than Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Oscar and Erving.

His place in all-time list is somewhere near Shaq, Hakeem and Malone.
lol kobe, shaq and hakeem are miles better than malone, oscar and erving.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Just stop that. In no universe would Kobe be better than Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Oscar and Erving.

His place in all-time list is somewhere near Shaq, Hakeem and Malone.
Most folks dont put Dr J in top 10 all-time.
Kobe is clearly ahead of Dr J.
Agree with the rest of your statement. I suppose I have Big O ahead of Kobe for now.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

lol kobe, shaq and hakeem are miles better than malone, oscar and erving.
No one is miles ahead of the 2nd all-time leading scorer....and, at worst, the 2nd greates PF in history.

[blablabla]

this kind of topics always lead to serious under/overrating of the black mamba

[brownmamba00]

No one is miles ahead of the 2nd all-time leading scorer....and, at worst, the 2nd greates PF in history.
Karl Malone is not the 2nd greatest PF in history. Dirk, Chuck, TimmyD, KG off the top of my head are better.
Malone, Doc and O never lead their team to a title in the NBA while Hakeem, Kobe and Shaq did it multiple times.

so yeah kb, shaq and the dream are miles and miles better than doc, o and malone. It is what it is.

[LakersReign]

I'm seriously thinking you're just trolling, you can't be this clueless.

So....according to you(andgar923) good posters on ISH, posts asinine hot garbage like this:

B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

but then throws a pathetic temper tantrum, in response when asked to prove it?! It's real clear the only clueless troll(andgar923) who OBVIOUSLY trolling(andgar923) here is YOU(andgar923).


GTFOH!!!!

[Deuce Bigalow]

Just stop that. In no universe would Kobe be better than Bird, Chamberlain, Russell, Oscar and Erving.

His place in all-time list is somewhere near Shaq, Hakeem and Malone.
:oldlol: He already was since '09

and about Bird

Kobe - Bird
5 rings - 3 rings
2 finals mvps - 2 finals mvps
1 mvp - 3 mvps
9 all nba 1st teams - 9 all nba 1st teams
9 all defensive 1st teams - 0 all defensive 1st teams
14 allstar teams - 12 allstar teas
2 scoring titles - 0 scoring titles

Kobe belongs in the same tier as Bird

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm seriously thinking you're just trolling, you can't be this clueless.

Ignore list dude, use it.

[LakersReign]

Ignore list dude, use it.


B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

You do realize that ANYBODY(with an ounce of common sense) can read through the thread and see who(LakersReign) had a VALID, COHERENT, point vs who(andgar923) was OBVIOUSLY trolling(andgar923)....right?:facepalm


But I get it. Somebody had to try and save the dumba**(andgar923) from himself:roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

I think this is what people should remember Kobe, 20 years from now:

http://jacky-talky.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/battlegrounds05_kobe2.jpg

The black and white also makes it perfect, in a sense, since it will be in the past.

For those who can't read the text on it:

You failed
-1000 made jumpers

No playoffs
-Abs 200 x 5

Selfish
-Curls 15 x 3

Overrated
-Bench press 2 x 15

Not a leader
-Baselines x 20

A fluke
-300 made bank shots

Too young
-Lunges 15 x 4

Uncoachable
-Tricep press 10 x 4

Played out
-800m run x 2

Tired
-400m run x 5

No focus
-Calf raises 12 x 3

You

[SwooshReturns]

Vince Carter underachieved, Penny Hardaway got injured. Huge difference.

[Legends66NBA7]

Vince Carter underachieved, Penny Hardaway got injured. Huge difference.

Yeah, I was actually trying to remember back to whom Bryant was getting comparisons too...

I wasn't trying to go into specifics too much, but you're right on that.

So I think it's safe to say that... he would have been say, Vince Carter, only with 3 rings as the #2 guy, if he didn't have that hunger for more.

[SwooshReturns]

So I think it's safe to say that... he would have been say, Vince Carter, only with 3 rings as the #2 guy, if he didn't have that hunger for more.
He was getting compared to VC even in HS.

He would've been a less athletic Vince Carter w/o the work ethic.

[andgar923]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=3

You do realize that ANYBODY(with an ounce of common sense) can read through the thread and see who(LakersReign) had a VALID, COHERENT, point vs who(andgar923) was OBVIOUSLY trolling(andgar923)....right?:facepalm


But I get it. Somebody had to try and save the dumba**(andgar923) from himself:roll:

Listen.

A. I'm not a Bron fanatic, like you accused me of.

B. Throwing a tantrum? umm... ok.

C. And maybe you have a short memory or a selective one, but some Laker fans did start hailing some of the players that I mentioned, that arrived either via trade or free agency. Just how they're doing with this latest pickup. IN THIS SAME F*CKIN THREAD!!!!

D. How am I even trolling? by stating the truth? notice how not one Laker fan is even coming close to defending your claims, cause well.... they know I'm right. they've seen other Laker fans hail Smush, Mihm, Samaki, and some of the others, then throw them under the bus when things didn't work out.

It's fine, every team has fans like this. Their team picks up a player that they recognize and they feel their team is gonna turn around. Why you feel this is trolling is beyond me.

How you feel that you've proved me wrong is beyond me.

E. YOU started the name calling, and even some tantrums.

F. YOU are the one that's getting dismissed as well.... a troll, or/and an idiot.

I really feel that you've gotta be trolling cause you just can't be this clueless.

[TheImmortal]

He's right. Kobe = GOAT

[Thenameless]

:oldlol: He already was since '09

and about Bird

Kobe - Bird
5 rings - 3 rings
2 finals mvps - 2 finals mvps
1 mvp - 3 mvps
9 all nba 1st teams - 9 all nba 1st teams
9 all defensive 1st teams - 0 all defensive 1st teams
14 allstar teams - 12 allstar teas
2 scoring titles - 0 scoring titles

Kobe belongs in the same tier as Bird

No he doesn't. Bird was much, much better at his best. And as a die hard Lakers fan, I hate the Celtics. The evidence is in the bolded, Bird won three MVP's, that is not luck. Kobe's one MVP might have been generous, as Lebron was already better than him by 2007-2008.

[Nowitness]

It really hinges on how much narrative carries over. Generally, as time passes people who never watched these players will rely on achievements and stats more than stories. Karl Malone in 25 years could be viewed as a top 15 player cause no one will remember all the low points. Without narrative Kobe is at best the 13th greatest player ever, now his standom far exceeds any other player, so it may well live on, but if it doesn’t how does a man with the following be viewed as the GOAT?

Never won without an All-NBA teammate (Duncan won 4 without a teammate making All-NBA).
Missed the playoffs in his prime then got bounced from the first round twice.
Was a 9th seed playing with Gasol, Howard and Nash, got injured and the team won more games.
Stopped playing defence after 04.
Own coach said he was a shitty teammate and defender, countless others claimed he forced them out.
Refused to take a pay cut when he was the 50th best player in the league.
Won a title with Shaq averaging more rebounds than he did points.
Fairly short prime (01-11)
Rape accusations
Trade demand in 07
Got Jackson fired then pouted till he got him back
Lost playing with Shaq, Malone and GP, shot 36% in a finals
Overrated in the clutch

[Kiddlovesnets]

MJ is the one and only GOAT, Kobe is the consensus #12 all time, note the difference.

[3ball]

MJ is the one and only GOAT, Kobe is the consensus #12 all time, note the difference.


the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it

They literally invented the footwork required to average 30 within the offense, so teammates could play to capacity and the team had enough production to win

Think about how much skill it takes to invent footwork that allows you to average 30+ in a strict offense without dominating the ball... aka GOAT

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

[Nowitness]

the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it

They literally invented the footwork required to average 30 within the offense, so teammates could play to capacity and the team had enough production to win

Think about how much skill it takes to invent footwork that allows you to average 30+ in a strict offense without dominating the ball... aka GOAT

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

Pretty sure Shaq won 3 titles as the main offensive weapon of the triangle, so you’re making stuff up. Shaq had mediocre footwork and scored more than Kobe did when he won.

Weak attempt at bigging up Kobe.

[3ball]

Pretty sure Shaq won 3 titles as the main offensive weapon of the triangle, so you’re making stuff up. Shaq had mediocre footwork and scored more than Kobe did when he won.

Weak attempt at bigging up Kobe.


Shaq wasn't the bailout guy in the triangle, and that's what the triangle needs to win - the triangle has zero rings without goat bailout artist (mj or kobe)

Heck, it won 55 without Shaq or Mike - only a bailout artist takes it over the top

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

The only ring that Shaq gets full credit for is 2000 because it's the only one where he averaged materially more than Kobe... But even that ring required Kobe because if he doesn't save the Lakers in Game 3 OT, then the Finals goes 7 games where Shaq's FT shooting could kill the team

[Nowitness]

Shaq wasn't the bailout guy in the triangle, and that's what the triangle needs to win - the triangle has zero rings without goat bailout artist (mj or kobe)

Heck, it won 55 without Shaq or Mike - only a bailout artist takes it over the top

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

The only ring Shaq gets full credit for is 2000... But even that ring required Kobe because if he doesn't save the Lakers in Game 3 OT, then the series goes 7 games

Wait, so Kobe was the ‘ball out’ guy when he averaged less points than Shaq did rebounds in 2000 ������

[Kiddlovesnets]

the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it


Nope Kobe isnt MJ's clone, hes a just a MJ-wannabe being worse on every aspect. Not saying Kobe aint a good and legendary player, but comparing him to MJ is ludicrous, its not even close.

[3ball]

Wait, so Kobe was the ‘ball out’ guy when he averaged less points than Shaq did rebounds in 2000 ������


Do you know what "bailout" means?

It means the shot-clock is winding down and a quick iso is needed to bail the team out on that possession.

So Shaq was never a bailout guy - Kobe was the obvious choice in those spots

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

[Nowitness]

Do you know what "bailout" means?

It means the shot-clock is winding down and a quick iso is needed to bail the team out on that possession.

So Shaq was never a bailout guy - Kobe was the obvious choice in those spots

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

Sorry, read that as ballout not bailout.

It’s still not a valid point, Kobe in the 2000 finals had games of 8 points, 2 points and 14 points, what was he bailing out? It’s a system in which the play takes longer to develop than other offenses, leading to more shots with less time on the clock if the play fails to develop or if the defence reacts well, but to say you can’t win without someone consistently hitting those shots is ludicrous , because A) they are bad shots and B ) those shots are never hit consistently.

Replace Kobe with any decent 2 Guard in 2000 they still win because Shaq was all time good, and all time good in the triangle. 2 points in a finals game but he was their bail out gtfo

[Micku]

MJ is better than Kobe than almost every part of the game. Shot selection, defense, off ball movement, efficiency, passing and etc.
And it's easy to tell. Kobe play extremely similar. But MJ was not only a better athlete, he was smarter. He was able to get more space due to his athleticism. He was quicker on his first step and the height he gets on jumpshot was crazy.

Kobe had better range and handles.

But Kobe is respected and is admire by many. Some nba players consider kobe to be top 3-5 or something. Within the skill level, they put to be number 2. He had to work harder to get where he was at. Like they probably was equal skill wise. But if you are equal skill wise, then whoever is the superior athlete has the advantage. And again, MJ was smarter. He played more within the triangle than Kobe did. MJ was quicker to make a move, which didn't disrupt the offense as much as Kobe did. And MJ had more energy. Defensively he was better. He had a better motor. A much better help defender. Man to man, they might've been equal, whenever Kobe focused. But MJ was more consistent.

MJ tho, is always consider to be the GOAT. Even with LeBron doing what he is doing, MJ is still the GOAT by many.

I doubt in 20 years Kobe will be the GOAT. But ppl will tend to forget things and add new narrative on stuff.

[3ball]

Sorry, read that as ballout not bailout.

It’s still not a valid point, Kobe in the 2000 finals had games of 8 points, 2 points and 14 points, what was he bailing out? It’s a system in which the play takes longer to develop than other offenses, leading to more shots with less time on the clock if the play fails to develop or if the defence reacts well, but to say you can’t win without someone consistently hitting those shots is ludicrous , because A) they are bad shots and B ) those shots are never hit consistently.

Replace Kobe with any decent 2 Guard in 2000 they still win because Shaq was all time good, and all time good in the triangle. 2 points in a finals game but he was their bail out gtfo


Yes, the triangle always needed a bailout artist to win.. the 00' Lakers don't win with any other SG at that time.. other bailout artists like tmac weren't good yet

And the series goes 7 if kobe doesn't bailout the Lakers in OT.. so you're already wrong based on the facts

Also, the triangle had been around 50 years, but won nothing until it met the goat bailout artists (mj/kobe) - then it won 11 rings in 18 years

[Nowitness]

Yes, the triangle always needed a bailout artist to win.. Lakers don't win with any other SG at that time.. other bailout artists like tmac weren't good yet

The series goes 7 if kobe doesn't bailout the Lakers in OT

Also, the triangle had been around 50 years, but won nothing until it met the goat bailout artists (mj/kobe) - then it won 11 rings in 18 years

So, as I said how was Kobe ‘bailout’ in 2000? Games of 8 points, 2 points and 14 points, so in 3 games his 24 total points were all bail outs? His 8 ‘bailout’ points in those games were the difference, not Shaqs 36 per game? You’re talking wet.

[Axe]

Gone too soon