Larry Bird vs. Kobe Bryant

[iDefend5]

Who do you have ranked higher in your top 10? Both of these guys are CLEARLY top 10 players of all-time, but who do you have ranked above who?

[cuad]

Bird > Kobe

[SuperPippen]

Every Celtics fan will say Bird. Every Lakers fan is going to say Kobe, and many of them will proceed to act as though Larry Bird was overrated and doesn't deserve to even be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe.


I wouldn't be upset with either player being ranked above the other, but I believe that, in his prime, Bird was an overall better ballplayer than Kobe was. He could just positively affect a game in more ways than Kobe could. Kobe is the better volume scorer and man-to-man defender. Bird has everything else.

[LABean]

:wtf:

Kobe, and it ain't close, at all.

[Faptastrophe]

^
:coleman: A part of me just died.




Bird was better.

he played in a better era, beat better teams and was more clutch than Kobe in big games (Kobe is quite clutch as well).

Aside from the '09 Celtics, the best teams that Kobe had to overcome were the Blazers and Kings at the turn of the century (the nucleus of those teams never made a final) so Kobe only beat one great team in his five championships, and the greatness of that team is debatable.

Bird had to go through Moses and Dr. J; Worthy, Magic and Kareem; Hakeem and Ralph Sampson; some underrated Milwaukee teams (Moncrief, Pressey, Cummings, Sikma) etc... In short, he never had the privilege of facing a Iverson lead team, or a crap Nets team or a under-staffed Magic squad.

You could argue that Bird played with legends like McHale and Parish, but that point is moot since Kobe played with Shaq for three rings, and if you asked McHale or Parish, they'd defer to Bird in a second, while Shaq might not do the same to Kobe (lol).

Kobe Bryant is a great player, ranked somewhere between 7 and 14 all time depending on your leanings, but he is NOT Larry Bird.

Only fanboys and kids who never saw Bird play or lived through the Bird and Magic era would think that, anyone over the age of 30 would laugh in the face of this argument.

[talkingconch]

Bird is ranked higher right now, when Kobe's career is over some will say he'll be higher.

[LABean]

^
:coleman: A part of me just died.

Would have been better if it wasn't just a part of you that died. :yaohappy:

[midatlantic09]

Kobe. Bird is a bit overrated.

[SuperPippen]

:wtf:

Kobe, and it ain't close, at all.

:lol

You unoriginal troll of a twit. I would feel sorry for you if your antics weren't so mildly irritating.

[SuperPippen]

Kobe. Bird is a bit overrated.

The term "overrated" gets thrown around too easily these days. Just because you think that a certain player wasn't as good as many others think that he was, does not make him overrated.

[Dictator]

Kobe

[Faptastrophe]

Would have been better if it wasn't just a part of you that died. :yaohappy:
Well, that's just low..

[LABean]

:lol

You unoriginal troll of a twit. I would feel sorry for you if your antics weren't so mildly irritating.

Thanks for not feeling sorry for me. :cheers:

[rodman91]

Larry Bird,easily.

[PickernRoller]

Might as well just ask if the whole league is better than Kobe. You'll have a 100 post saying so.........ISH is a the birthplace of stupidity and so is this thread.

[Xiao Yao You]

Don't like either guy but if I have a team I want Bird on it. Kobe not so much.

[iDefend5]

Every Celtics fan will say Bird. Every Lakers fan is going to say Kobe, and many of them will proceed to act as though Larry Bird was overrated and doesn't deserve to even be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe.


I wouldn't be upset with either player being ranked above the other, but I believe that, in his prime, Bird was an overall better ballplayer than Kobe was. He could just positively affect a game in more ways than Kobe could. Kobe is the better volume scorer and man-to-man defender. Bird has everything else.
How would you rank the top 10 players of all-time?

[selrahc]

#1 kobe
#8 bird

[SuperPippen]

#1 kobe
#8 bird

Bird is way too high on your "Greatest Chuckers of All Time" list. He really doesn't even come close to Kobe in that regard. Kobe's spot is appropriate, though.

[iDefend5]

Bird is way too high on your "Greatest Chuckers of All Time" list. He really doesn't even come close to Kobe in that regard. Kobe's spot is appropriate, though.
Why did you ignore me? :banghead:

[selrahc]

Bird is way too high on your "Greatest Chuckers of All Time" list. He really doesn't even come close to Kobe in that regard. Kobe's spot is appropriate, though.

:biggums:

[zay_24]

Would have been better if it wasn't just a part of you that died. :yaohappy:
:roll: :roll:

[SuperPippen]

Why did you ignore me? :banghead:

My apologies.


1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Chamberlain
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
11. West
12. Dr. J

[DKLaker]

Kobe....no question about it. Bird was a great player.......but anyone saying Bird was better is seriously overrating him.

[Xiao Yao You]

Kobe....no question about it. Bird was a great player.......but anyone saying Bird was better is seriously overrating him.

Kobe's arguably a better scorer. Bird has him in every other facet. Gunner or ultimate teammate. Pretty obvious choice to me.

[zay_24]

Kobe's arguably a better scorer. Bird has him in every other facet. Gunner or ultimate teammate. Pretty obvious choice to me.
:coleman:

[SuperPippen]

Kobe....no question about it. Bird was a great player.......but anyone saying Bird was better is seriously overrating him.

:facepalm

No, anyone saying Bird simply has a different perspective on things and you do and/or isn't biased.

I don't know you as a poster, so I'm not sure if you're one of those ridiculously biased Kobe troll assclowns, but, please, do not state your opinion as if any other would be incorrect.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Bird.
Kobe was a wayyy better defender.
Bird was a better bball player.

[SuperPippen]

:coleman:

If you disagree with what he said, why don't you respond with a rational, coherent rebuttal to his statement? Or is it foolish of me to assume that that would be within your extremely limited capacity?

[LABean]

#1 kobe
#8 bird

Similar list to mine. :applause:

[zay_24]

If you disagree with what he said, why don't you respond with a rational, coherent rebuttal to his statement? Or is it foolish of me to assume that that would be within your extremely limited capacity?
Well Kobe was clearly a better defender for one..

[SuperPippen]

Well Kobe was clearly a better defender for one..

Alright. Good start. I would very much agree with you.

Now, why else did you find his statement worthy of a :coleman: ?

[zay_24]

Alright. Good start. I would very much agree with you.

Now, why else did you find his statement worthy of a :coleman: ?
Bean was a way better scorer as well.

[DKLaker]

Kobe's arguably a better scorer. Bird has him in every other facet. Gunner or ultimate teammate. Pretty obvious choice to me.


Kobe much better offense, much better defense.......more rings.......goodnight!!!!

[TAZORAC]

Larry Bird might not be better then Paul Pierce

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Very close when you consider defense. While Larry wasn't bad on that end, he simply did NOT have the impact Kobe did. Bryant from 2000-04 was one of the best perimeter defenders of this ERA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLg15UIRLY (locks up A.I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugkFcXpRan4 (checks Mcgrady while putting on a clinic offensively)

I would take peak Bird over Kobe though.

[iDefend5]

Larry Bird might not be better then Paul Pierce
:oldlol:

[SuperPippen]

Larry Bird might not be better then Paul Pierce

.....














.........







...........







:coleman:

[Xiao Yao You]

Larry Bird might not be better then Paul Pierce

Kobe might not be. Again do I want a gunner or someone that plays well with others?

[Bigsmoke]

Uh, Massa used to breed us to be bigger to go play
Athletes of today in the NBA, make me proud
But there's somethin' they don't say
Keep gettin' accused for abusin' White pussay
From OJ to Kobe, uh let's call him Tobe
First he played his life cool just like Michael
Now he rock ice too just like I do
Yo, you can't do better than that?
The hotel clerk who adjusts the bathroom mat?
Now you lose sponsorships that you thought had your back
Yeah, you beat the rap jiggaboo, fake ***** you
You turn around then you shit on Shaq
Who woulda knew, Mr. Goodie-Two-Shoes
He love a little butt crack, got enough cash
Little kids with they bus pass who look up to you
To do something for the youth, stupid spoof
But you let them use you as an example
They would rep, but our heroes got they hands full


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_2Um9gRXc



Nas said it best about Kobe :bowdown:

[zay_24]

lil wayne>>>nas:bowdown:

[gin17]

i'd choose larry bird all day every day and twice on sundays

[Bigsmoke]

lil wayne>>>nas:bowdown:

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv209/Kris3_2009/287f4392-ea87-4469-adcb-2fce9615dbf.jpg

GO KOBE!


that song isnt bad though.:lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4glP4Awr_g

[dyna]

Right now

Bird

[TheMarkMadsen]

lil wayne>>>nas:bowdown:


Crack is wack :biggums:

[talkingconch]

Larry Bird might not be better then Paul Pierce
:roll:

[sbw19]

I wouldn't say Kobe is better skills-wise, but when it comes to ranking longevity that translates into winning counts (see Bill Russell and Kareem). Kobe has five rings and counting, and he's in position to further cement his status as an all-time great if he leads his team to more titles.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe much better offense, much better defense.......more rings.......goodnight!!!!

Kobe's offense isn't as good as Bird's. Bird is on the short list of best offensive players of all time.

[zay_24]

Kobe's offense isn't as good as Bird's. Bird is on the short list of best offensive players of all time.
And kobe isnt?:coleman:

[L8k3r5]

Larry Bird,easily.
:kobe:

[Celtic_Pride]

Bean was a way better scorer as well.

Kobe 25.3 ppg on 45.4% shooting
Bird 24.3 ppg on 49.6%

How can Kobe be a way better scorer? :confusedshrug:

Apart from perimeter 1 on 1 defending, Bird trumps Kobe in every other aspect of the game IMO

[PHaYze]

...god...this is the tale of two amazing people... larry... the classy guy... he doesnt mind recieving... he'll make the extra pass.. he'll do whatever it takes to make his partner happy... trust me... an open basket isnt the only thing he likes to unload into.... kobe... he's passionate... he loves making everyone else feel better about themselves... he gets a bad rap.. but damn.. when he's on he's on... ahh.. when he gets going there's nothing you can do to stop the stroke...in and around.. ugh

[eliteballer]

Kobe 25.3 ppg on 45.4% shooting
Bird 24.3 ppg on 49.6%

How can Kobe be a way better scorer? :confusedshrug:

Apart from perimeter 1 on 1 defending, Bird trumps Kobe in every other aspect of the game IMO


One came out of high school and they played in different eras, averages will be different. Use what little of a brain you have:facepalm

[zay_24]

Kobe 25.3 ppg on 45.4% shooting
Bird 24.3 ppg on 49.6%

How can Kobe be a way better scorer? :confusedshrug:

Apart from perimeter 1 on 1 defending, Bird trumps Kobe in every other aspect of the game IMO

On January 22, 2006, Bryant scored a career-high 81 points in a victory against the Toronto Raptors.[78][79] In addition to breaking the previous franchise record of 71 set by Elgin Baylor, Bryant's 81-point game was the second highest point total in NBA history, surpassed only by Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game in 1962.[80] In that same month, Bryant also became the first player since 1964 to score 45 points or more in four consecutive games, joining Chamberlain and Baylor as the only players ever to do so.[81] For the month of January, Bryant averaged 43.4 points per game,[82] the eighth highest single month scoring average in NBA history and highest for any player other than Chamberlain.[83] By the end of the 2005

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe might not be. Again do I want a gunner or someone that plays well with others?
Playing well with others resulted in 3 championships.

Gunning the ball, resulted in 5.


Then you factor in that those teammates Bird was playing well with happened to be 3 other Hall of Famers,

well it becomes quite clear that Kobe has been better.

[DJ Leon Smith]

[QUOTE=zay_24]On January 22, 2006, Bryant scored a career-high 81 points in a victory against the Toronto Raptors.[78][79] In addition to breaking the previous franchise record of 71 set by Elgin Baylor, Bryant's 81-point game was the second highest point total in NBA history, surpassed only by Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game in 1962.[80] In that same month, Bryant also became the first player since 1964 to score 45 points or more in four consecutive games, joining Chamberlain and Baylor as the only players ever to do so.[81] For the month of January, Bryant averaged 43.4 points per game,[82] the eighth highest single month scoring average in NBA history and highest for any player other than Chamberlain.[83] By the end of the 2005

[The Iron Fist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af_2Um9gRXc



Nas said it best about Kobe :bowdown:


Kobes boss doesn't skeet on his babys car seat though.

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe 25.3 ppg on 45.4% shooting
Bird 24.3 ppg on 49.6%

How can Kobe be a way better scorer? :confusedshrug:

Apart from perimeter 1 on 1 defending, Bird trumps Kobe in every other aspect of the game IMO
Bird is a front court player. Of course his % will be higher. Just like Tyson Chandler is at 57%. Because Tyson plays closer to the basket. Doesn't mean hes a better shooter though.

[zay_24]

Bird is a front court player. Of course his % will be higher. Just like Tyson Chandler is at 57%. Because Tyson plays closer to the basket. Doesn't mean hes a better shooter though.
Bird is a better shooter, but Kobe is a far better scorer, a top 3 scorer in NBA history.

[TheMarkMadsen]

One played with multiple hall of famers, the other played with just one.


All of birds second options for his championship runs >>>> pau.
And done give me the andrew bynum argument. Dude never averaged double digit points for either of the Lakers championship runs.

Both were great scores/players. Can't really go wrong with either one.

I've seen more Kobe games than Bird's just because of the era I live in. So id have to go with Kobe, keeping in mind that the sample size of Bird's games I've seen is far less than Kobes.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

The Bird is the Word.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe 25.3 ppg on 45.4% shooting
Bird 24.3 ppg on 49.6%

How can Kobe be a way better scorer? :confusedshrug:

Apart from perimeter 1 on 1 defending, Bird trumps Kobe in every other aspect of the game IMO
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 24.6 PPG
Karl Malone - 25.0 PPG

But lets forget that they are #1 and #2 on the all-time scoring list with 36K+ points. And that Kobe is #5 with 29K+ points and Larry Bird is not in the top 25.

[IGOTGAME]

If Kobe wins a title and Finals MVP this year then it is gonna be hard to keep him off the Larry Bird level.

[G-Funk]

ITs closer than some ppl are making it out to be. As of right now Bird, but a ring for Kobe can change everything

[IcanzIIravor]

ITs closer than some ppl are making it out to be. As of right now Bird, but a ring for Kobe can change everything

How would another ring for Kobe change things when he has more rings than Bird?

I'd roll with Kobe, but unlike some I think you don't lose much if you get to pick 1-15 in the all time NBA player list. I wouldn't lose sleep if I had to go with Bird. Two of the best and hardest workers in NBA history.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe.

the big white stiff is overrated.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How would another ring for Kobe change things when he has more rings than Bird?

I'd roll with Kobe, but unlike some I think you don't lose much if you get to pick 1-15 in the all time NBA player list. I wouldn't lose sleep if I had to go with Bird. Two of the best and hardest workers in NBA history.
different era, and different ways how they got their rings

Bird's 3 rings - Playoff averages
'81 - 22/14/6/47%
'83 - 28/11/6/52%
'86 - 26/9/8/52%

Kobe's 4 superstar rings - Playoff averages (2000 was 21/5/4/44%)
'01 - 29/7/6/47%
'02 - 27/6/5/43%
'09 - 30/5/6/46%
'10 - 29/6/6/46%

Bird's numbers are amazing, and those rings were in a tougher era. For now Bird is ahead of Kobe.
But if Kobe gets another ring, than he will move past Shaq and Bird on my AT list, or if he keeps on playing at a high level.

[Micku]

It's a wash. You can argue one way or another.

Bird was probably the better team player. He improved a 29 win team to a 61 in his rookie season, without any major change. Bird was the better passer, he probably was the better shooter, and he wasn't bad defensively as some ppl would say. He was a pretty good post defender. He was average man to man defender, but a good help defensively. I think he actually guarded PFs than SFs.

Kobe was probably the better individual player. He plays better defense and is the better scorer. You could argue that Bird could score a lot too, but choose not to as much, but Kobe had a better scoring arsenal to me. Also, Kobe didn't have a major injury that made him retire yet.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 24.6 PPG
Karl Malone - 25.0 PPG

But lets forget that they are #1 and #2 on the all-time scoring list with 36K+ points. And that Kobe is #5 with 29K+ points and Larry Bird is not in the top 25.
Bird had a shorter career....cut short with injuries. That doesn't mean he wasn't a beast offensively. Surely you don't think Malone was a better offensive player than Bird?

[NumberSix]

Bladers

[DKLaker]

Kobe's offense isn't as good as Bird's. Bird is on the short list of best offensive players of all time.


Are you fking nuts?????
Try looking up the actual stats not talking from your illusions.

Bird 649 3 pointers made............Kobe 1,484 3 pointers made....and still going.
You probably thought that was closer didn't you.

Kobe will pass Bird in assists next season.

Kobe 5 rings Bird 3

Bird made 3 NBA 2nd team defense, Kobe made 11 and counting including 9 first team.

All time scoring Kobe #5 Bird #27


Why is this even a discussion????
As great as Bird was there is very clearly no comparison.....guys voting from their hearts not from their brains and certainly not from the facts.

Bird only had 4 seasons of 25+ PPG and 5 seasons less than 22 PPG

Kobe 11 seasons of 25+ PPG.......not even including this season. Kobe will retire with more 25+ seasons than Bird's seasons played.....Wow!!!!!!!

Facts people, Facts.......clearly, very clearly no comparison.

[TAZORAC]

Why has a topic asking who's better bird or KOBE gone this many pages.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Are you fking nuts?????
Try looking up the actual stats not talking from your illusions.

Bird 649 3 pointers made............Kobe 1,484 3 pointers made....and still going.
You probably thought that was closer didn't you.

Kobe will pass Bird in assists next season.

Kobe 5 rings Bird 3

Bird made 3 NBA 2nd team defense, Kobe made 11 and counting

All time scoring Kobe #5 Bird #27


Why is this even a discussion????
As great as Bird was there is very clearly no comparison.....guys voting from their hearts not from their brains and certainly not from the facts.
Dude, those stats don't mean squat. Bird had a MUCH shorter career than Kobe. Cut short with injuries.
Example: Kobe hasn't passed Bird YET in assists? really?
Yes, Kobe was the wayyyyyyy better defender. Bird was the better basketball player.

[TAZORAC]

If Kobe wins a title and Finals MVP this year then it is gonna be hard to keep him off the Larry Bird level.

:facepalm get the hell out of here

[IGOTGAME]

Dude, those stats don't mean squat. Bird had a MUCH shorter career than Kobe. Cut short with injuries.
Example: Kobe hasn't passed Bird YET in assists? really?
Yes, Kobe was the wayyyyyyy better defender. Bird was the better basketball player.

does that not count against him on a GOAT list? I for one think that it does, longevity matters.

I don't think people will truly appreciate Kobe until he has retired.

[DKLaker]

does that not count against him on a GOAT list? I for one think that it does, longevity matters.

I don't think people will truly appreciate Kobe until he has retired.


Thank You!!!!!!

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird had a shorter career....cut short with injuries. That doesn't mean he wasn't a beast offensively. Surely you don't think Malone was a better offensive player than Bird?
Scoring? Malone>Bird
offense like scoring+passing+playmaking - Bird

[Da_Realist]

:facepalm

Stop with this "Kobe's the better scorer". Bird had 11 seasons shooting better than Kobe's most efficient season and all 13 better than Kobe's career average. Kobe scored more because Kobe SHOT more. He's not a better scorer than Bird.

Quality over Quantity

Bird was a better player at his best than Kobe was. He won MVP 3 years in a row playing against Kareem, Magic, Dr J, Moses and young MJ. Kobe wasn't even MVP of his own team until they shipped Shaq out.

He was a better playoff performer. He had more :eek: games than Kobe while also have many less :wtf: games. Was able to play better in high pressure moments than Kobe has been able to. Incredibly, he had more assists, rebounds, blocks and steals playing 164 playoff games than Kobe has in 208. That's a 44 game difference. Kobe scored more points because he shot more and he wasn't as efficient doing it as Bird was.

On the stat sheet, Kobe and Bird are tied with 2 Finals MVP's. but watching the games you can see one played on a level miles above what the other player was doing to win those trophies.

Kobe's played longer and is racking up all these career achievements to fool all his fans that want to turn basketball into an arcade game. Bird was the better all around player, smarter and more clutch.

[eliteballer]

Bird played in a different era, of course he'll have higher stats in things like shooting percentage, like EVERYONE back then:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm

Stop with this "Kobe's the better scorer". Bird had 11 seasons shooting better than Kobe's most efficient season and all 13 better than Kobe's career average. Kobe scored more because Kobe SHOT more. He's not a better scorer than Bird.

Quality over Quantity

Bird was a better player at his best than Kobe was. He won MVP 3 years in a row playing against Kareem, Magic, Dr J, Moses and young MJ. Kobe wasn't even MVP of his own team until they shipped Shaq out.

He was a better playoff performer. He had more :eek: games than Kobe while also have many less :wtf: games. Was able to play better in high pressure moments than Kobe has been able to. Incredibly, he had more assists, rebounds, blocks and steals playing 164 playoff games than Kobe has in 208. That's a 44 game difference. Kobe scored more points because he shot more and he wasn't as efficient doing it as Bird was.

On the stat sheet, Kobe and Bird are tied with 2 Finals MVP's. but watching the games you can see one played on a level miles above what the other player was doing to win those trophies.

Kobe's played longer and is racking up all these career achievements to fool all his fans that want to turn basketball into an arcade game. Bird was the better all around player, smarter and more clutch.
Kobe is easily the better scorer.
Are you like 10 and not understand FG%?

[Deuce Bigalow]

you guys Tyson Chandler is a better scorer than Michael Jordan ever was

Tyson Chandler this season - .694 FG%, .722 TS%, .694 eFG%

Jordan has never shot 54% in any season

Jordan just takes more shots

Quality over Quantity

[macpierce]

:facepalm

Stop with this "Kobe's the better scorer". Bird had 11 seasons shooting better than Kobe's most efficient season and all 13 better than Kobe's career average. Kobe scored more because Kobe SHOT more. He's not a better scorer than Bird.

Quality over Quantity

Bird was a better player at his best than Kobe was. He won MVP 3 years in a row playing against Kareem, Magic, Dr J, Moses and young MJ. Kobe wasn't even MVP of his own team until they shipped Shaq out.

He was a better playoff performer. He had more :eek: games than Kobe while also have many less :wtf: games. Was able to play better in high pressure moments than Kobe has been able to. Incredibly, he had more assists, rebounds, blocks and steals playing 164 playoff games than Kobe has in 208. That's a 44 game difference. Kobe scored more points because he shot more and he wasn't as efficient doing it as Bird was.

On the stat sheet, Kobe and Bird are tied with 2 Finals MVP's. but watching the games you can see one played on a level miles above what the other player was doing to win those trophies.

Kobe's played longer and is racking up all these career achievements to fool all his fans that want to turn basketball into an arcade game. Bird was the better all around player, smarter and more clutch.

kobe vs bird scoring wise isnt really debatable man, its kobe by a fair margin. In terms of better overall player it could be bird

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you guys Tyson Chandler is a better scorer than Michael Jordan ever was

Tyson Chandler this season - .694 FG%, .722 TS%, .694 eFG%

Jordan has never shot 54% in any season

Jordan just takes more shots

Quality over Quantity

Like this comparison was any better. :oldlol:

The volume of shots Jordan took is/was much larger than Tyson Chandlers; Kobe and Bird are at least in the same realm.

[G-Funk]

Kobe's offense isn't as good as Bird's. Bird is on the short list of best offensive players of all time.
:biggums:

[DKLaker]

Bird had a nice 4 year run of putting up numbers....that's all, 4 years......it just flat out doesn't compare to what Kobe has done.

[Odinn]

Another quailty thread by revisionist history.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:biggums:

It's not. His scoring may be better, but Bird's playmaking was unreal. The guy just made his teammates better, top 5 in that regard. Easily.

Too bad his career was cut short with injuries, otherwise this wouldn't even be a comparison. As I said earlier, Bird's PEAK shits on Kobe's.

[tpols]

Kobe will end up having the much better career. Bird's knowledge of the game and decision making are the best ever but he wasnt as physically talented.

[stallionaire]

Anyone who says Kobe doesn't have a good basketaball mind and is probably 15.

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's not. His scoring may be better, but Bird's playmaking was unreal. The guy just made his teammates better, top 5 in that regard. Easily.

Too bad his career was cut short with injuries, otherwise this wouldn't even be a comparison. As I said earlier, Bird's PEAK shits on Kobe's.
Bbbbut but but Kobe has a higher PER...

[pauk]

http://icecreamconvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/michael-jordan-laughing.gif

[Heavincent]

http://icecreamconvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/michael-jordan-laughing.gif

This is funny coming from somebody that is constantly comparing Lebron to Jordan. At least Kobe is in the top 10 all-time and has a case over Bird.

That is one of my favorite gifs though :oldlol:

[pauk]

This is funny coming from somebody that is constantly comparing Lebron to Jordan. At least Kobe is in the top 10 all-time and has a case.

There is a difference comparing:

Talent/Productions/Skills/Gamestyles

and

CAREER




Kobe vs Bird career wise... its not debatable... its NOT... anybody who is sane would rank Bird higher than Kobe... much higher..

:no:

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Moses/Oscar/Kobe

:no:

[tpols]

This is funny coming from somebody that is constantly comparing Lebron to Jordan. At least Kobe is in the top 10 all-time and has a case.
It's also funny because Bird>>Lebron on any SF list and likely will be forever.:oldlol:
pauk=mad

[Heavincent]

There is a difference comparing:

Talent/Productions/Skills/Gamestyles

and

CAREER

:no:

And the OP never specified, so...

It's not like Kobe is some scrub anyway. Kobe's "talent/production/skills" are among the best.

[TheBigVeto]

Bird wins this one.

[Heavincent]

It's also funny because Bird>>Lebron on any SF list and likely will be forever.:oldlol:
pauk=mad

Exactly. Lebron will never pass Bird.

As for the topic at hand, I think Bird had a slightly better peak than Kobe, but Kobe has longevity on his side.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bbbbut but but Kobe has a higher PER...

Bird's player efficiency rating from '85-88 is higher than Kobe's from '06-09. One thing I dislike about PER, though, is that it overrates PPG (just like it does rebounding) and doesn't penalize missed shots enough.

[Heavincent]

Kobe vs Bird career wise... its not debatable... its NOT... anybody who is sane would rank Bird higher than Kobe... much higher..

:no:

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Moses/Oscar/Kobe

:no:

lol at this non-sense.

[iDefend5]

Bird's player efficiency rating from '85-88 is higher than Kobe's from '06-09. One thing I dislike about PER, though, is that it overrates PPG (just like it does rebounding) and doesn't penalize missed shots enough.

Kobe's 06-08 PER is higher than Bird's 84-86 PER. Those were their peaks.




Next.

[pauk]

If Kobe had a better career than Bird... then he had a better career than example Shaq and Duncan aswell considering Bird is ranked higher than them.... hell no...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe's 06-08 PER is higher than Bird's 84-86 PER. Those were their peaks.




Next.

Bird's peak didn't start until the '85 season, AT LEAST. From '85-87, he beats out '06-08 Kobe, albeit by the slightest of margins.

[iDefend5]

Bird's peak didn't start until the '85 season, AT LEAST. From '85-87, he beats out '06-08 Kobe, albeit by the slightest of margins.
:roll:

Yeah clear sign you don't know what you're talking about


Next.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll:

Yeah clear sign you don't know what you're talking about


Next.

I don't care if he won an MVP that year. He was a far better player the following season.

[Da_Realist]

A whole page wasted on PER :facepalm

Does this mean Lebron is better than Kobe?

[Lebron23]

Larry Bird was 27/28 yrs.old when he won his first NBA Finals MVP. I'd take Bird over Kobe because he's the better all around player, and his Celtics kicked Jordan's and the Bulls @$$es in the playoffs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Larry Bird was 27/28 yrs.old when he won his first NBA Finals MVP. I'd take Bird over Kobe because he's the better all around player, and his Celtics kicked Jordan's and the Bulls @$$es in the playoffs.


What does the age you win a FMVP have to do with anything?

Using that logic bird, billups, tony parker, >>>>>>>> Lebron?

I don't think so

[Deuce Bigalow]

There is a difference comparing:

Talent/Productions/Skills/Gamestyles

and

CAREER




Kobe vs Bird career wise... its not debatable... its NOT... anybody who is sane would rank Bird higher than Kobe... much higher..

:no:

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Moses/Oscar/Kobe

:no:
Kobe has more championships and Finals MVPs than Moses, Oscar, West, K. Malone, Baylor, and Barkley combined. They have no case over Kobe since '09.

[Odinn]

Kobe has more championships and Finals MVPs than Moses, Oscar, and West combined. They have no case over Kobe since '09.
Moses 3 times MVP
Kobe 1 time MVP

How about that?:facepalm

There was no FMVP award when Big O and West in their primes. Still they have rings and West has a case to be called the best Laker in 1971-72 season.

Kobe can be ranked over them but the bolded part is just ridicilous.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Moses 3 times MVP
Kobe 1 time MVP

How about that?:facepalm

There was no FMVP award when Big O and West in their primes. Still they have rings and West has a case to be called the best Laker in 1971-72 season.

Kobe can be ranked over them but the bolded part is just ridicilous.
Kobe - 5 rings, 2 finals mvps
Moses - 1 ring, 1 finals mvp

Big O won a ring in '71 and West won a ring in '72. Finals MVP award existed since '69

[Odinn]

Kobe - 5 rings, 2 finals mvps
Moses - 1 ring, 1 finals mvp
3 MVPs + 1 FMVP can be ranked over 1 MVP + 2 FMVPs.
Saying "They have no case over Kobe since '09.":oldlol: :oldlol:
Moses won his MVPs when Kareem, Erving, Bird, Magic were around and arguably they were in their primes. And Kobe won his MVP against prime CP3?..

Not exactly sayin' Moses > Kobe but your claim (again) is ridicilous.:facepalm


Big O won a ring in '71 and West won a ring in '72. Finals MVP award existed since '69


There was no FMVP award when Big O and West in their primes. Still they have rings and West has a case to be called the best Laker in 1971-72 season.
Are you sure you can read?

[eliteballer]

Kobe is a very polarizing player, and MVP's are determined by media votes. Guys like Bill Simmons, Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless etc. Rose won MVP last year and NO one thinks hes the best in the league.

It has NO bearing on whos better, it doesnt quantitatively measure ANYTHING except peoples opinions

[Deuce Bigalow]

3 MVPs + 1 FMVP can be ranked over 1 MVP + 2 FMVPs.
Saying "They have no case over Kobe since '09.":oldlol: :oldlol:
Moses won his MVPs when Kareem, Erving, Bird, Magic were around and arguably they were in their primes. And Kobe won his MVP against prime CP3?..

Not exactly sayin' Moses > Kobe but your claim (again) is ridicilous.:facepalm




Are you sure you can read?
I don't think Oscar ever made it past the Conference Finals in the 60's
Jerry West played in the Finals many times and lost each one, yes he did win it in '69 but he wouldn't have won it in any other ones.

Regular season MVPs is not how I rank players.
Shaq - 1
Kobe - 1
Nash - 2
Rose - 1

I think that explains it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

MVPs back then were voted by the players/coaches weren't they?
If that was the case in '06 and '07 then Kobe would have 3 MVPs

[Da_Realist]

Kobe is a very polarizing player, and MVP's are determined by media votes. Guys like Bill Simmons, Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless etc. Rose won MVP last year and NO one thinks hes the best in the league.

It has NO bearing on whos better, it doesnt quantitatively measure ANYTHING except peoples opinions

:confusedshrug:

This ain't physics. Opinions matter as long as they're supported with some knowledge of the game. Finals MVP's are opinions too. So are DOPY's. Opinions are why ISH exists.

It does and should matter that someone is voted "Most Valuable Player". Especially if they win it more than once. One time may be a fluke, but 3 times??? That's not a fluke and should be entered into any discussion when discussing who's a better player.

[eliteballer]

Lets see, one is arguably the most polarizing player in the history of the game and the other was a white superstar beloved by the white media. Yes, quite an objective measure:facepalm

[Da_Realist]

Lets see, one is arguably the most polarizing player in the history of the game and the other was a white superstar beloved by the white media. Yes, quite an objective measure:facepalm

Anything for Kobe :facepalm

What years didn't Bird deserve his MVP's? Also, go through and give him the "Kobe treatment" and award him MVP's that he would have won if his homer fans were voting.

How many would Bird have ended his career with according to eliteballer?

[SuperPippen]

Lets see, one is arguably the most polarizing player in the history of the game and the other was a white superstar beloved by the white media. Yes, quite an objective measure:facepalm

**** off with that nonsense.

Kobe's been given more than his due as a player. Most ex-players, analysts, talking heads, sports journalists, and columnists do nothing but sing his praises the vast majority of the time.

[SuperPippen]

MVPs back then were voted by the players/coaches weren't they?
If that was the case in '06 and '07 then Kobe would have 3 MVPs

MVPs have been voted by sportswriters instead of players and coaches since '81.

[HighFlyer23]

Kobe

bird is very overrated

[Odinn]

Regular season MVPs is not how I rank players.
Shaq - 1
Kobe - 1
Nash - 2
Rose - 1

I think that explains it.
No. You just need to put them into a context. Saying MVPs are worthless...:facepalm But I shouldn't be surprised because it came from a Kobe-stan.

And BTW, Moses the last name who won the MVP with a 50- W team. Back in days, MVPs given by not just based on team success. Moses was arguably or non-arguably the best player in the L when he got his mvps.

[KevinNYC]

Wasn't the argument whose offense is better, not who is the better scorer. They're not the same things. P.S. Can I bring up arbitrary stats about Bird playing entire games using his left hand and if Kobe hasn't matched it, claim Bird is a better scorer than Kobe?


The highlights of Bird's left-hand game are on youtube, so you can see this, but he didn't play the whole game with his left hand. In fact, his coach told him to stop messing around.

[KevinNYC]

Why has a topic asking who's better bird or KOBE gone this many pages.

Why has this topic been asked again? Was the thread from six weeks ago not sufficient.

[KevinNYC]

Are you fking nuts?????
Try looking up the actual stats not talking from your illusions.

Bird 649 3 pointers made............Kobe 1,484 3 pointers made....and still going.
You probably thought that was closer didn't you.

Kobe will pass Bird in assists next season.

Kobe 5 rings Bird 3

Bird made 3 NBA 2nd team defense, Kobe made 11 and counting including 9 first team.

All time scoring Kobe #5 Bird #27


Why is this even a discussion????
As great as Bird was there is very clearly no comparison.....guys voting from their hearts not from their brains and certainly not from the facts.

Bird only had 4 seasons of 25+ PPG and 5 seasons less than 22 PPG

Kobe 11 seasons of 25+ PPG.......not even including this season. Kobe will retire with more 25+ seasons than Bird's seasons played.....Wow!!!!!!!

Facts people, Facts.......clearly, very clearly no comparison.

Your argument is basically boiling down to Kobe is a better volume scorer.
I think people who take Bird would argue his all around-game including rebounding and assists.

Also this point

Bird 649 3 pointers made............Kobe 1,484 3 pointers made....and still going.
You probably thought that was closer didn't you.

is not legitimate. Kobe has more threes than Jerry West too, does that make him a better outside shooter? Of course, the three point shot didn't exist when Jerry West played so it's illegitimate as an argument.

One of the biggest differences between today's NBA and the 80's is the three point shot. The three point rule was only instituted in the 1979–80 season (Bird's rookie year). Coaches didn't use it that much in the early 80's and you didn't have a league of players who grew up practiced threes from grade schoool. It was generally used when you needed to play catch up or if you were wide-open. Nowadays the three is completely integrated into coaches offensive schemes and it's it used from the tip off to space the floor. Teams have multiple guys shooting over 150 threes a year and you don't get benched for shooting a contested three-pointer.

Larry Bird's highest number of 3's attempted for an entire year was 237 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html).
Kobe has 8 seasons with over 300 three's attempted. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html)
That doesn't mean Kobe is better or worse for taking that many threes, it's just how the game has evolved. Kobe already has 229 3's attempted this season.

It does have a slight impact on total points when you're comparing eras.

Kobe has taken over 4,400 threes or more than 2700 threes over the course of his career than Bird did. When you multiply that times .336 which is Kobe's career average from three you get 907.2 (2700 x .336= 907.2) which is an extra 907.2 points on threes.

[hkfosho]

doesn't matter who's better... fact is MJ will always remain as the GOAT

next

[Deuce Bigalow]

doesn't matter who's better... fact is MJ will always remain as the GOAT

next
doesn't matter what you say...fact is that you will always remain a f@gg0t

next

[hkfosho]

doesn't matter what you say...fact is that you will always remain a f@gg0t

next

:yaohappy:

[cltcfn2924]

Playing well with others resulted in 3 championships.

Gunning the ball, resulted in 5.


Then you factor in that those teammates Bird was playing well with happened to be 3 other Hall of Famers,

well it becomes quite clear that Kobe has been better.

They were not hall of famers until they played with Bird. I don't know how old you are, but Bird and Magic are unmatched in their ability to make other players better. Take that to the bank, I've been a fan for 45+ years.

[cltcfn2924]

Kobe

bird is very overrated


There is no way you saw him play, to make an assinine statement like that. Or you just don't know this game very well.

[Meticode]

Bird for me. In my opinion for Kobe to pass him he'd have to win one more ring.

[Round Mound]

Shooting: Bird
Post Game: Bird
Rebounding: Bird
Creating: Bird
Passing: Bird
Assisting: Bird
Defense: Bird
Missmatch Problems: Bird
FT Shooting FG: Bird
3-Point Shooting FG: Bird

Kobe has 1 on 1 Slashing Game Better...nothing else

For those who say Bird was a Bad Defender go see Individual Defensive Rating and Team Defense DWS.

[BlueandGold]

Every one of the posters who has said Bird is clearly head and shoulders above Kobe is either a serious celtics/bird/anti-kobe homer or is seriously underestimating the value of consistently at that high of a level, for that long of a duration.

Bird, as great as his peak was, was honestly a bit injury prone if not a lot and Kobe, at this point, has played and started far more games and as the above poster(s) have pointed out, has hit far more threes.

Its not just the consistency either. People that know me know I could make some huge detailed argument over why Kobe is at least in the discussion but one random statistic/fact I will jump to is Kobe's 4 all-star MVPs. Taken out of context it doesn't seem that impressive but when you consider tha the's also won 5 championships and lead his team to multiple finals victories/berths then its worth mentioning that not only was he a great playoff performer he also took pride in routinely playing and beating the other most talented players in the league.

[BlueandGold]

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Your argument is basically boiling down to Kobe is a better volume scorer.
I think people who take Bird would argue his all around-game including rebounding and assists.

Also this point

Bird 649 3 pointers made............Kobe 1,484 3 pointers made....and still going.
You probably thought that was closer didn't you.

is not legitimate. Kobe has more threes than Jerry West too, does that make him a better outside shooter? Of course, the three point shot didn't exist when Jerry West played so it's illegitimate as an argument.

One of the biggest differences between today's NBA and the 80's is the three point shot. The three point rule was only instituted in the 1979

[Droid101]

Peak? Prime? Longevity? Career?

I think if you look at everything, Kobe wins.

[Round Mound]

I think people are underrating Bird

A player who delivered 24 PPG on 48.2% FG and 9.7 RPG and 9.5 APG in the 1986 Finals.

Kobe hasn`t ever come close to this level.

Bird had a Better All Around Game than Bryant. Only thing Bryant has on Bird is 1 on 1 Slashing to the Basket and Ballhandling (He is a Guard duh) thats All.

Bird was Better than Bryant at More Aspects of the Game.

[BlackJoker23]

Junk removed

[bizil]

U can't go wrong either way. But don't get it twisted, Kobe has enough of a resume to pass Bird by. But Bird had such a mystique and revolutionized his position in a way Kobe can't really touch. Those are the factors that still keep Kobe narrowly behind Bird GOAT wise. As far as peak value, u could go either way. But I would roll with Kobe peak value wise. MJ and Kobe are the rare breed that can do ANYTHING on a bball court. Their freak athletic ability, defense, scoring skillset, and killer instinct put them in rare company. But if somebody said Bird, I wouldn't complain though.

Bird was just as deadly a scorer, had a great scoring skillset himself, was a better rebounder, and a better passer. But the thing is Kobe and MJ are also tremendous all around players as well capable of playing and defending PG, SG, and SF. But I feel the top four perimeter players of all time are MJ, Magic, Bird, and Kobe. Then u have guys like West, Big O, Bron, Barry, Hondo, and Wade. All of these guys are epic all around players and alpha dogs all in one. A guy on a lower level that gets slept on and is similar in some ways is Clyde the Glide.

[iDefend5]

Use eFG% if you want to talk about Kobe's FG % is hurt by his 3 point shooting.

[Shepseskaf]

As someone who watched both in their primes, I can't put Kobe over Bird. I just can't.

Stats aside, Kobe's tendency to take bad shots is the determining factor for me. If you have the abilities that Kobe possesses, you have to use your bb IQ to consistently get better shots, to achieve 50% or better from the field.

Bird played smarter, there's no doubt about it, and though he isn't close to being the athlete that Kobe is, Bird was the better player, imo.

[ILLsmak]

The term "overrated" gets thrown around too easily these days. Just because you think that a certain player wasn't as good as many others think that he was, does not make him overrated.

lol, actually that would make him overrated to the person who said it. Hence why everyone is throwing it around.

I think Bird is a beast. I think Kobe is overrated.

So there.

-Smak

[Odinn]

Use eFG% if you want to talk about Kobe's FG % is hurt by his 3 point shooting.
Until Bird's injury ('80-'88)
Larry Bird's eFG%; .519
Celtics' eFG%; .513
The L's eFG%; .512
Larry Bird's eFG% in the playoffs; .489

In Kobe's prime ('01-'10)
Kobe Bryant's eFG%; .489
Lakers' eFG%; .499
The L's eFG%; .486
Kobe Bryant's eFG% in the playoffs; .486

There you have those all numbers.

[Duncan21formvp]

Something else to point out

Bird finished top 2 7x in MVP voting and top 3 8x in MVP voting

Kobe finished top 2 2x in MVP voting and top 3 5x in MVP voting

[DKLaker]

Something else to point out

Bird finished top 2 7x in MVP voting and top 3 8x in MVP voting

Kobe finished top 2 2x in MVP voting and top 3 5x in MVP voting


???????? Meaningless......this is voted on by writers........hate to say it but truth is old white writers in the 80's just happy to have a legit white star.

[Odinn]

???????? Meaningless......this is voted on by writers........hate to say it but truth is old white writers in the 80's just happy to have a legit white star.
Weren't you the one who claimed Duncan is no better than McHale basically?:oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

U can't go wrong either way. But don't get it twisted, Kobe has enough of a resume to pass Bird by. But Bird had such a mystique and revolutionized his position in a way Kobe can't really touch. Those are the factors that still keep Kobe narrowly behind Bird GOAT wise. As far as peak value, u could go either way. But I would roll with Kobe peak value wise. MJ and Kobe are the rare breed that can do ANYTHING on a bball court. Their freak athletic ability, defense, scoring skillset, and killer instinct put them in rare company. But if somebody said Bird, I wouldn't complain though.

Bird was just as deadly a scorer, had a great scoring skillset himself, was a better rebounder, and a better passer. But the thing is Kobe and MJ are also tremendous all around players as well capable of playing and defending PG, SG, and SF. But I feel the top four perimeter players of all time are MJ, Magic, Bird, and Kobe. Then u have guys like West, Big O, Bron, Barry, Hondo, and Wade. All of these guys are epic all around players and alpha dogs all in one. A guy on a lower level that gets slept on and is similar in some ways is Clyde the Glide.



You're one of THE best posters on this site, but I don't think there's any case for Kobe over Bird.



The only thing to say about Kobe is that, when he's REALLY good...



Stuff like the 81point game...that's not just a guy having a terrific game. That's everyone knowing that Kobe Bryant is much better than they are. But you gotta go by what you do. And going by that, his petulance gets in the way far too often.