Would Wilt Chamberlain make an All-Star team if he played in the '90s?

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/nba.all.star.mvps/images/wilt_chamberlain.jpg

Would he?

[jlauber]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/nba.all.star.mvps/images/wilt_chamberlain.jpg

Would he?

A better question would be...could Wilt dominate the MANY clods that manned the center positions on the 29 teams that played in the 90's...as much as he dominated his own peers, many of whom were HOFers?

Being a DOMINANT all-star for the 7-2 (and 7-3 in TODAY's measuring system), 285-300+ lb, 7-8 wingspan, college high-jump championship leaping ability, massive strength that has probably never been equalled in NBA history, with SPRINTER's speed, and a very good outside game, to go along with his variety of post moves...would be a foregone conclusion.

[iamgine]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/nba.all.star.mvps/images/wilt_chamberlain.jpg

Would he?
Over Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing? No way.

[Deuce Bigalow]

A better question would be...could Wilt dominate the MANY clods that manned the center positions on the 29 teams that played in the 90's...as much as he dominated his own peers, many of whom were HOFers?

Being a DOMINANT all-star for the 7-2 (and 7-3 in TODAY's measuring system), 285-300+ lb, 7-8 wingspan, college high-jump championship leaping ability, massive strength that has probably never been equalled in NBA history, with SPRINTER's speed, and a very good outside game, to go along with his variety of post moves...would be a foregone conclusion.
the 500 lb bench press strength

[jlauber]

LOL
the 500 lb bench press strength

Google his bench press and get back to me...

In fact, YOU find me his EXACT bench press, since YOU seem to know. Give me YOUR reliable sources, too.

[jlauber]

Over Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing? No way.

PROVE IT.

I can show a 34-35-36 year old Wilt outplaying a PRIME Kareem. And a 33 year old Wilt just abusing Kareem. And, I can show a 38-39 year old Kareem, who could barely get off the floor (barely getting 6 rpg) just ANNIHILATING Hakeem and Ewing, and in Hakeem's case, in 10 straight games (32 ppg on .630 shooting.)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Google his bench press and get back to me...

In fact, YOU find me his EXACT bench press, since YOU seem to know. Give me YOUR reliable sources, too.
this is a guy with a 505 lb bench. mike martin

http://www.annarbor.com/assets_c/2012/02/Combine_MikeMartin-thumb-350x470-104431.jpg

this is wilt

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/909/336/WiltChamberlain_display_image.jpg

[jlauber]

this is a guy with a 505 lb bench. mike martin

http://www.annarbor.com/assets_c/2012/02/Combine_MikeMartin-thumb-350x470-104431.jpg

this is wilt

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/909/336/WiltChamberlain_display_image.jpg

THAT Wilt was already benching a KNOWN 400+ lbs (SI article in 1964.) Now, show us a picture of a 300 lb Wilt, in the late 60's and early 70's.

In any case, where is YOUR PROOF of what Chamberlain was actually benching????

[kentatm]

this is a guy with a 505 lb bench. mike martin

this is wilt




:facepalm


you aren't all that bright brah.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm


you aren't all that bright brah.
the guy thinks wilt could bench 500 :confusedshrug:

[jlauber]

Take a look at PHILA's photos...

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=wilt+chamberlain+strength&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=631&tbm=isch&tbnid=XBT8XzJth94U-M:&imgrefurl=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D98884%26page%3D13&docid=vacTgvn_MJFmSM&imgurl=http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/175/226/225/1rY1uWlg47pBJHn.jpg&w=505&h=707&ei=f4NlT6TAB6TYiALA9MGjDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=850&vpy=246&dur=109&hovh=266&hovw=190&tx=99&ty=144&sig=108721047181946653880&page=2&tbnh=131&tbnw=88&start=23&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:23


http://www.google.com/imgres?q=wilt+chamberlain+strength&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=631&tbm=isch&tbnid=aBa77BLZuDd4FM:&imgrefurl=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php%3Fp%3D4618420%26postcount%3D130&docid=YErbbHYgdQK5BM&imgurl=http://i48.tinypic.com/mk9pts.jpg&w=322&h=407&ei=ZIJlT975CoWqiAK04tWiDw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=93&sig=108721047181946653880&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=124&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0&tx=60&ty=61

[wpdougie2180]

So the better question do u think he'd be worst that Kevin Duckworth, Brad Daugherty, Otis Thorpe, Danny Manning, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong, Charles Oakley, Vin Baker, Dana Barros, Christian Laettner, Chris Gatling, Rik Smits because all those guys made all-star teams in the 90s

[CavaliersFTW]

the guy thinks wilt could bench 500 :confusedshrug:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZBBbb-i8nRs/T2K8xoY5pPI/AAAAAAAADOE/O2qrADW5stc/s800/Wilt%2520blog%2520pic1.jpg

How how could this scrawny little twerp possibly bench the 465lbs that an eyewitness claims he saw Wilt doing.

I mean, it's not like he weighs over 300lbs in solid muscle or anything... Not saying its true... but it is so often said by his peers that he was immensely even before he bulked up, that I don't have much reason to doubt it.

[jlauber]

the guy thinks wilt could bench 500 :confusedshrug:

In 1964...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm


With Chamberlain now doing what everyone expected of him all along, San Francisco fans are coming back. They like him and his perpetual-motion supporting cast, and they like winning. About the only people not happy are the Warriors' opponents. The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.




Wilt...at age 59!


http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm


Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.




http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/stop-understimating-ufc-fighters-strength-because-body-shape-745999/index6.html


I appreciate your comments. Remember, however, that long limbs do not mean you can't bench press excellent poundages. Wilt Chamberlain, the 7' 2" skinny elite basketball player had very poor mechanical advantages for the bench press. His chest was flat, and his arms were skinny and really long! Nonetheless, he was able to bench press 500 lbs! Nobody would believe this by looking at him. His bench press figures have been verified and are widely known. You can find documentation of it on the web. He just happened to have freakishly dense muscles, and excellent genetics when it came to all the other factors that result in brute strength.

Shaq O' Neil, however, can "only" bench press 450 lbs even though he has much thicker arms, more overall mass, shorter arms and a thicker chest. Shaq has to compensate for not being as gifted as Wilt in some areas.


Read Cherry's book...in it he interviews a 6-5 250 weight-lifter by the name of Fluke Fluker, who reportedly was benching 500+ lbs. Fluker called Wilt the strongest man he ever met.

And, go ahead...GOOGLE Wilt's BENCH PRESS...

MANY hits of 500+


Furthermore, find me ONE LEGITIMATE source that DISPUTES that fact.

[jstern]

Not having seen Chamberlain play, and just using logic, I would imagine he could since he scored 100 points in 62', and I imagine some all stars from the 90s would be capable of scoring that much if they went back in time. The vibe that I get is that the league improved tremendously year after year, and perhaps that's why he wasn't scoring 50ppg by the late 50s, and he played well against Jabbar, who as an old center played well against centers who played in the 90s. Another thing that I consider is that Wilt seemed like a motivated athlete, willing to go the extra mile in proving himself, working out, etc.

[FindingTim]

PROVE IT.

I can show a 34-35-36 year old Wilt outplaying a PRIME Kareem. And a 33 year old Wilt just abusing Kareem. And, I can show a 38-39 year old Kareem, who could barely get off the floor (barely getting 6 rpg) just ANNIHILATING Hakeem and Ewing, and in Hakeem's case, in 10 straight games (32 ppg on .630 shooting.)

great reasoning right there, ever consider being a lawyer?
you convinced me. If I remember right, in math they call that the Transitive Property.

[jlauber]

The "Wilt-bashers" that remain here, are few-and-far between. Only Dunce and Dickwad (and I am convinced that they are one in the same), and perhaps a couple of other uneducated and unintelligent posters, are left. The rest have long since scattered...

CRUSHED by the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, including VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWSPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, QUOTES from PEERS, and the staggering wealth of STATISTICAL DATA ...that EXISTS TODAY.

[Deuce Bigalow]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZBBbb-i8nRs/T2K8xoY5pPI/AAAAAAAADOE/O2qrADW5stc/s800/Wilt%2520blog%2520pic1.jpg

How how could this scrawny little twerp possibly bench the 465lbs that an eyewitness claims he saw Wilt doing.

I mean, it's not like he weighs over 300lbs in solid muscle or anything...
I googled 450 pound bench pressers...heres some

Arnold - claimed a 500 lb bench

http://www.berserkfitness.com/wp-content/gallery/article_images/arnold_bicep3.jpg

http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/starprofile/Mike_Platz.jpg

405 lbs

http://www.musclelegion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dexter-Jackson-012-300x277.jpg

435 lbs
http://www.musclelegion.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders-bodybuilding/dexter-jackson-bodybuilder-profile-and-workout-routine/

[kentatm]

the guy thinks wilt could bench 500 :confusedshrug:


b/c he probably could.

the dude was insanely strong.

and stop posting pics of dudes with big muscles and their bench numbers.

the size of your muscles are not always indicative of your strength.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The "Wilt-bashers" that remain here, are few-and-far between. Only Dunce and Dickwad (and I am convinced that they are one in the same), and perhaps a couple of other uneducated and unintelligent posters, are left. The rest have long since scattered...

CRUSHED by the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, including VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWSPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, QUOTES from PEERS, and the staggering wealth of STATISTICAL DATA ...that EXISTS TODAY.
http://asdin.kapsi.fi/gifwall/gif/conan-rofl.gif

[jlauber]

I googled 450 pound bench pressers...heres some

Arnold - claimed a 500 lb bench

http://www.berserkfitness.com/wp-content/gallery/article_images/arnold_bicep3.jpg

http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/starprofile/Mike_Platz.jpg

405 lbs

http://www.musclelegion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dexter-Jackson-012-300x277.jpg

435 lbs
http://www.musclelegion.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders-bodybuilding/dexter-jackson-bodybuilder-profile-and-workout-routine/

Now, GOOGLE WILT's BENCH PRESS...

Hit-after-hit of 500+.

Here again, find me ONE LEGITIMATE SOURCE, that either worked out with Wilt, or was an EYE-WITNESS, that DISPUTED those claims.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Now, GOOGLE WILT's BENCH PRESS...

Hit-after-hit of 500+.

Here again, find me ONE LEGITIMATE SOURCE, that either worked out with Wilt, or was an EYE-WITNESS, that DISPUTED those claims.
:lol Take your Alzheimer's pills

[jlauber]

http://asdin.kapsi.fi/gifwall/gif/conan-rofl.gif

Once again, instead of supplying ANY RESEARCH, this is ALL you can come up with.:facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

Not having seen Chamberlain play, and just using logic, I would imagine he could since he scored 100 points in 62', and I imagine some all stars from the 90s would be capable of scoring that much if they went back in time. The vibe that I get is that the league improved tremendously year after year, and perhaps that's why he wasn't scoring 50ppg by the late 50s, and he played well against Jabbar, who as an old center played well against centers who played in the 90s. Another thing that I consider is that Wilt seemed like a motivated athlete, willing to go the extra mile in proving himself, working out, etc.

The vibe you get is wrong - and this is a troll thread btw - of course Wilt would make an all-star game any year the NBA existed if he was in his prime.

His stats changed due to the roles he was asked to fulfill on teams. He would have averaged an absolute bare minimum of 35ppg for his career had he not been asked to change his game to focus on different things by his coaches. I feel he changed his game for the better, but a modern superstar would not likely do what he did today. Try telling Carmello to stop scoring and focus on assists instead. Try telling him after that to just play defense and let everyone else do the scoring. Think he'd do it?

[NumberSix]

Over Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing? No way.
Lol. Ewing? Are you fcking kidding? :confusedshrug: I could understand if you said Shaq, but Ewing? Ahahahahahahaha. :roll:

[jlauber]

:lol Take your Alzheimer's pills

I have forgotten far more than you will EVER know...

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/3996405253_23f4135088_o.jpg

Suh. 470 lb bench

[CavaliersFTW]

b/c he probably could.

the dude was insanely strong.

and stop posting pics of dudes with big muscles and their bench numbers.

the size of your muscles are not always indicative of your strength.

Your right, and none of those guys are over 300lbs either. Some 5'8 to 6'0 pipsqueaks might look jacked as **** but their chest measurements are still going to be smaller than Wilt's. Wilt has a massive frame. He's heavier than any NBA player in history not named Shaq - and Shaq was fat.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/3996405253_23f4135088_o.jpg

Suh. 470 lb bench

How much does he weigh? Over 300lbs?

[kurt_rambis]

all-star team? of course

benching 500? it seems very, very unlikely. 350lbs nfl players have trouble with that kind of weight, and they don't have the disadvantage of ridiculously long arms

[Deuce Bigalow]

Your right, and none of those guys are over 300lbs either. Some 5'8 to 6'0 pipsqueaks might look jacked as **** but their chest measurements are still going to be smaller than Wilt's. Wilt has a massive frame. He's heavier than any NBA player in history not named Shaq - and Shaq was fat.
You do understand that it is harder for longer guys to bench heavy. There is no way on God's green earth that Wilt could get close to 500
So much range of motion on those long ass arms.

[CavaliersFTW]

all-star team? of course

benching 500? it seems very, very unlikely. 350lbs nfl players have trouble with that kind of weight, and they don't have the disadvantage of ridiculously long arms

350lbs NFL players? Name them. Name any NFL player over 275lbs that isn't fat while your at it.

[jlauber]

The vibe you get is wrong - and this is a troll thread btw - of course Wilt would make an all-star game any year the NBA existed if he was in his prime.

His stats changed due to the roles he was asked to fulfill on teams. He would have averaged an absolute bare minimum of 35ppg for his career had he not been asked to change his game to focus on different things by his coaches. I feel he changed his game for the better, but a modern superstar would not likely do what he did today. Try telling Carmello to stop scoring and focus on assists instead. Try telling him after that to just play defense and let everyone else do the scoring. Think he'd do it?

Few here ever bring up the fact that Wilt, in his 69-70 season, was asked by his new coach, to become the focal point of the Laker offense (and for Baylor to take a back seast.) Chamberlain responded by averaging 32.2 ppg, on 60% shooting, in his first nine games (which was leading the league BTW.) Included in those nine games, were games of 33, 35, 37 (against 7-0 270 lb Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning league MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against star center Bob Rule), and 43 points. Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain hung a 25-25 game, on 9-14 shooting against Kareem in those nine games, too. Unfortunately, Wilt shredded his knee in that ninth game ( in a game in which he scored 33 points on 13-13 shooting), and was never the same again. Still, in the Finals, and basically playing on one leg, he posted a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 seven game series.

And, in the 68-69 season, his idiotic coach had asked him to sacrifice his offense, so that Baylor could shot-jack. It got so bad, that when he was only averaging 18 ppg, SI ran an article claiming that Wilt could no longer score. Wilt responded with a 60 point game, and a few days later he hung a 66 point game (on 29-35 shooting.) In fact, over the course of 17 straight games, Wilt averaged 31.1 ppg, including a 35 point game against Russell, which was his highest game against him since his 46 point game five in the '66 ECF's.

CLEARLY, Wilt COULD have scored MUCH MORE. Even as late as the last season in the decade of the 60's, he was STILL the game's greatest scorer.

[kurt_rambis]

350lbs NFL players? Name them. Name any NFL player over 275lbs that isn't fat while your at it.

ndamukong suh was already mentioned. he's beefy, not fat. dude weighs 307lbs and has a 35 inch vert

he's also only 6'4", which is a HUGE advantage when bench pressing vs. someone who's 7'2", and he can't bench 500lbs

[jlauber]

You do understand that it is harder for longer guys to bench heavy. There is no way on God's green earth that Wilt could get close to 500
So much range of motion on those long ass arms.

Dunce, I have provided SEVERAL articles and FIRST HAND accounts of Wilt's bench press. Now, where are YOUR's?

[CavaliersFTW]

You do understand that it is harder for longer guys to bench heavy. There is no way on God's green earth that Wilt could get close to 500

No, it isn't. What you can bench press is not going to be soley dictated by the length of your arms that is a gross oversimplification of only one of the variables that goes into a persons potential to bench press. It's leverage and strength. Leverage has less to do with limb length than it has to do with skeletal indexes such as the breadth of your shoulders in relation to the length of your your radius/ulna, in relation to your humerus, etc. You don't know what Wilt's body composition is, but you do know that every single person that's ever known the dude keeps insisting he's the strongest person they've ever seen and/or strongest basketball player that ever lived. True? So is everyone who talks about Wilt like this a lunatic?

[CavaliersFTW]

ndamukong suh was already mentioned. he's beefy, not fat. dude weighs 307lbs and has a 35 inch vert

he's also only 6'4", which is a HUGE advantage when bench pressing vs. someone who's 7'2", and he can't bench 500lbs

The dude had a belly, shave about 20lbs of fat. 6'4 = huge advantage my ass. I'm sorry but my post above addresses that.

[jstern]

The vibe you get is wrong - and this is a troll thread btw - of course Wilt would make an all-star game any year the NBA existed if he was in his prime.

His stats changed due to the roles he was asked to fulfill on teams. He would have averaged an absolute bare minimum of 35ppg for his career had he not been asked to change his game to focus on different things by his coaches. I feel he changed his game for the better, but a modern superstar would not likely do what he did today. Try telling Carmello to stop scoring and focus on assists instead. Try telling him after that to just play defense and let everyone else do the scoring. Think he'd do it?

I know his role changed, and he was taking less shot and doing other things. But the league did get better, not the only reason why Wilt's ppg went down in my opinion, but it did get better, and I mentioned that so that the younger people who won't look past just the superficial could get a better sense of why I feel that Wilt would be an All Star. Too complicated to explain, I'm tired.

[jlauber]

No, it isn't. What you can bench press is not going to be soley dictated by the length of your arms that is a gross oversimplification of only one of the variables that goes into a persons potential to bench press. It's leverage and strength. Leverage has less to do with limb length than it has to do with skeletal indexes such as the breadth of your shoulders in relation to the length of your your radius/ulna, in relation to your humerus, etc. You don't know what Wilt's body composition is, but you do know that every single person that's ever known the dude keeps insisting he's the strongest person they've ever seen and/or strongest basketball player that ever lived. True? So is everyone who talks about Wilt like this a lunatic?


THAT is the bottom line. There are DOZENS, if not HUNDREDS, of FIRST HAND accounts of Chamberrlain's incredible physical feats. And yet, not ONE LEGITIMATE first hand account that DISPUTES them. Why?

[CavaliersFTW]

You do understand that it is harder for longer guys to bench heavy. There is no way on God's green earth that Wilt could get close to 500
So much range of motion on those long ass arms.

And Usain Bolt should be too tall to compete in Olympic sprints much less shatter records. His long legs certainly can't generate enough power to run with ideal 6 foot tall sprinters. Tall athletes have a huge disadvantage in sprints.

This logic existed 10 years ago. It is the same logic as a tall guy can't bench press. You get a gifted athlete, and it doesn't matter how tall they are, they're gonna blow stereotypes out of the water. Wilt isn't some run of the mill 7 footer churned out of the NBA factory, he is not some tall joe blow nobody.

[jlauber]

No, it isn't. What you can bench press is not going to be soley dictated by the length of your arms that is a gross oversimplification of only one of the variables that goes into a persons potential to bench press. It's leverage and strength. Leverage has less to do with limb length than it has to do with skeletal indexes such as the breadth of your shoulders in relation to the length of your your radius/ulna, in relation to your humerus, etc. You don't know what Wilt's body composition is, but you do know that every single person that's ever known the dude keeps insisting he's the strongest person they've ever seen and/or strongest basketball player that ever lived. True? So is everyone who talks about Wilt like this a lunatic?

For the longest time on this forum, the "anti-Chamberlain" posters scoffed at the EYE-WITNESS accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (two of them were Sonny Hill and long-time Sixer trainer Al Domenico.) They demanded VIDEO FOOTAGE. Well, thanks to you, we now have a VIDEO in which Chamberlain's fingertips are nearly at the top of the backboard, on a leap in which he has no time to react, and without benefit of a running start, AND, with his OFF-HAND. CLEARLY, that was a man, with a well-rested running start, would EASILY have reached the top of the backboard. Which, was COMMON KNOWLEDGE, AT THE TIME Chamberlain played.

Other's here laughed at Wilt dunking his FTs with only a couple of steps. Impossible they claimed. And yet, we have a VIDEO INTERVIEW, with TEX WINTER, in which he claims that he WITNESSED a high-shool Chamberlain, taking three steps from behind the line, and with a leap at the line, DUNKING a FT. Now, can anyone explain to me why TEX WINTER would have gone out of his way, to see that that tactic was banned?

Or that Wilt's college COACH rolled out a 12 ft basket, and there were accounts of Wilt DUNKING on it...back in the 50's! Here again, I have NEVER read ANYONE claiming that they witnessed Wilt, FAILING at doing that, either. How come?

These MANY so-called "myths" that Wilt was supposedly accomplishing have now become DOCUMENTED REALITY...

[CavaliersFTW]

I know his role changed, and he was taking less shot and doing other things. But the league did get better, not the only reason why Wilt's ppg went down in my opinion, but it did get better, and I mentioned that so that the younger people who won't look past just the superficial could get a better sense of why I feel that Wilt would be an All Star. Too complicated to explain, I'm tired.

Wilt dropped a 60 and a 66 point game within days of each other in 1969 after some ignorant reporter published reasons why Wilt couldn't score anymore too. Which is exactly what you are doing. Seriously, his role changed, that's it there is no "league got better" rationale at all - he was very very capable of putting up bat sh!t crazy numbers even as an old guy on a bum knee. 1970 NBA finals G6, Wilt had arthroscopic knee surgery literally only months before the series, and he scored 45 points... 45 in a finals game. He didn't have the green light to score anymore except on the rarest of occasions. If he was greenlit to be the scorer his entire career he'd have maintained gaudy numbers every single season. He'd never average anything under 30 per game even by his 13th and 14th season if that's what his job was. He was very good at doing what he was asked to do by his coaches, a lot of people don't give him enough credit for that - he was a pure, gifted scorer - he could always fill a stat sheet with points during his career the NBA never "advanced" past him.

Did the NBA become too advanced for Tim Duncan now that Pop put him in as center on reduced minutes? Is that why his stats changed? - The NBA has never become to advanced for any player - if you think it got too advanced for Wilt than he's the only one in NBA history who's had that happen.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt dropped a 60 and a 66 point game within days of each other in 1969 after some ignorant reporter published reasons why Wilt couldn't score anymore too. Which is exactly what you are doing. Seriously, his role changed, that's it there is no "league got better" rationale at all - he was very very capable of putting up bat sh!t crazy numbers even as an old guy on a bum knee. 1970 NBA finals G6, Wilt had arthroscopic knee surgery literally only months before the series, and he scored 45 points... 45 in a finals game. He didn't have the green light to score anymore except on the rarest of occasions. If he was greenlit to be the scorer his entire career he'd have maintained gaudy numbers every single season. He'd never average anything under 30 per game even by his 13th and 14th season if that's what his job was. He was very good at doing what he was asked to do by his coaches, a lot of people don't give him enough credit for that - and they also use that against him when they wanna look at his stats that "slid".
then the next game went 1-11 from the freethrow line :lol

[Simple Jack]

Wilt dropped a 60 and a 66 point game within days of each other in 1969 after some ignorant reporter published reasons why Wilt couldn't score anymore too. Which is exactly what you are doing. Seriously, his role changed, that's it there is no "league got better" rationale at all - he was very very capable of putting up bat sh!t crazy numbers even as an old guy on a bum knee. 1970 NBA finals G6, Wilt had arthroscopic knee surgery literally only months before the series, and he scored 45 points... 45 in a finals game. He didn't have the green light to score anymore except on the rarest of occasions. If he was greenlit to be the scorer his entire career he'd have maintained gaudy numbers every single season. He'd never average anything under 30 per game even by his 13th and 14th season if that's what his job was. He was very good at doing what he was asked to do by his coaches, a lot of people don't give him enough credit for that - he was a pure, gifted scorer - he could always fill a stat sheet with points during his career the NBA never "advanced" past him.

Did the NBA become too advanced for Tim Duncan now that Pop put him in as center on reduced minutes? Is that why his stats changed? - The NBA has never become to advanced for any player - if you think it got too advanced for Wilt than he's the only one in NBA history who's had that happen.

You don't think the average player in the NBA today is > than the average player in the NBA in, say, the 1960's?

[CavaliersFTW]

then the next game went 1-11 from the freethrow line :lol

Yes he did lol - see, you can be a historian too

[Asukal]

All star????? Why don't you try GOAT star!!!!! :bowdown:

Wilt would dominate every player he would play against in any era!!!!! Shaq? pffft he'd grab him by the tail and flung him 100 meters away!!!! :bowdown:

With the slower pace of the 90s, Wilt would block every shot from his opponents!!! :bowdown:

My gawd, if he ****ed 20000 in his era, he'd probably **** 1000000 women in the 90s and 1000000000 in today's NBA. Wilt GOAT!!! :bowdown:

Wilt is so strong he benched 500 lbs during his time!!! With today's methods and medicine, he'd bench 1000lbs easily!! No sweat!! :applause:

Don't ever diss Wilt! Gaylauber storm is coming at you!!! :no:

[CavaliersFTW]

You don't think the average player in the NBA today is > than the average player in the NBA in, say, the 1960's?

I think the average player in the 1960's is better at playing 1960's style basketball than the average player in 2012 would be at playing 1960's basketball.

And I think the average 1960's player is going to be worse at playing in 2012 style basketball than 2012 players are at playing 2012 style basketball. Make sense? Different sets of rules, different skill sets , different coaching, and different plays were used. Tim Duncan would be awesome in the 60's. Javale McGee and Joel Anthony wouldn't even be drafted.

[kurt_rambis]

The dude had a belly, shave about 20lbs of fat. 6'4 = huge advantage my ass. I'm sorry but my post above addresses that.

not having a six pack does not equal having a huge belly lol

you're right that we don't know wilt's exact body composition, but we can makes some general assumptions based on his height, wingspan, etc. at 7'2" with an apparent (at least according to this thread) 7'8" wingspan and 9'6" reach, it's reasonable to say did not have an ideal frame for the bench press

why do you think power lifters try to arch their back when they bench? they're trying to get the shortest range of motion possible. wilt would have a huge distance to cover based on his height alone. covering that kind of distance with 500lbs would make him one of the strongest people on earth. and with no proof, again, it seems unlikely

obviously there's a larger-than-life image of wilt that people like to play up, and it's unfortunate all these tall tales get in the way of his phenomenal basketball ability

old-timers are probably hesitant to set the record straight because they liked wilt and they enjoy being part of something special. or maybe because it makes their own accomplishments seem more substantial if they had to play against a living greek god. honestly, i think all these myths are one of the reasons he's ranked so low in recent all-time great polls. people are sick of all the unverifiable claims of superhuman athleticism. can't you be happy with the VERIFIED claims? he was a freak, a top-five guy, no question. stop trying to turn him into black thor

/response to trolling over

[CavaliersFTW]

not having a six pack does not equal having a huge belly lol

you're right that we don't know wilt's exact body composition, but we can makes some general assumptions based on his height, wingspan, etc. at 7'2" with an apparent (at least according to this thread) 7'8" wingspan and 9'6" reach, it's reasonable to say did not have an ideal frame for the bench press

why do you think power lifters try to arch their back when they bench? they're trying to get the shortest range of motion possible. wilt would have a huge distance to cover based on his height alone. covering that kind of distance with 500lbs would make him one of the strongest people on earth. and with no proof, again, it seems unlikely

obviously there's a larger-than-life image of wilt that people like to play up, and it's unfortunate all these tall tales get in the way of his phenomenal basketball ability

old-timers are probably hesitant to set the record straight because they liked wilt and they enjoy being part of something special. or maybe because it makes their own accomplishments seem more substantial if they had to play against a living greek god. honestly, i think all these myths are one of the reasons he's ranked so low in recent all-time great polls. people are sick of all the unverifiable claims of superhuman athleticism. can't you be happy with the VERIFIED claims? he was a freak, a top-five guy, no question. stop trying to turn him into black thor

/response to trolling over

Usain Bolt can't run WR sprints because other elite 6'5 world class athletes have never even come close, despite being in elite sports such as the NBA or the NFL. They are world class athletes and even they can't do it. In fact, the top 50 fastest people of all time are all ~6 feet tall except for 1 (Asafa Powell) who is 6'3 and he's the lone man who's that big. No 6'5 person has ever even qualified as an Olympic 100 meter sprinter before. And because it hasn't been seen before, it's obvious why that must be. 6'5 athletes basically can't be as fast because there bodies aren't built to be as fast. They are too long. I don't care if there's evidence to suggest he's fast it's a bunch of nutcases who claim that. There's no chance in hell he ran a WR :roll: Any idiot who thinks Usain Bolt is actually that fast is going against common sense.

/identical logic

[iamgine]

PROVE IT.

I can show a 34-35-36 year old Wilt outplaying a PRIME Kareem. And a 33 year old Wilt just abusing Kareem. And, I can show a 38-39 year old Kareem, who could barely get off the floor (barely getting 6 rpg) just ANNIHILATING Hakeem and Ewing, and in Hakeem's case, in 10 straight games (32 ppg on .630 shooting.)
You mean rookie and sophomore Kareem? :oldlol: Go ahead, show us all their matchups from Kareem's 3rd year onwards.

As for Kareem outplaying Hakeem & Ewing, that's cause Kareem's playing with GOAT PG + had awesome conditioning + Hakeem & Ewing was just sophomore. Most players were not close to as good as their prime self in their rookie and sophomore years, even if their stats suggest otherwise.

[millwad]

You mean rookie and sophomore Kareem? :oldlol: Go ahead, show us all their matchups from Kareem's 3rd year onwards.

As for Kareem outplaying Hakeem & Ewing, that's cause Kareem's playing with GOAT PG + had awesome conditioning + Hakeem & Ewing was just sophomore. Most players were not close to as good as their prime self in their rookie and sophomore years, even if their stats suggest otherwise.

And lets not forget that Akeem in his 2nd year as a pro dominated Kareem and the Lakers bigs badly in the playoffs of 1986, he lead his Rocket team to an easy 4-1 win in the series.

The idiot Jlauber never mentions that, he only mentions the games where Kareem got the better of Akeem which is pretty pathetic.

[jlauber]

You mean rookie and sophomore Kareem? :oldlol: Go ahead, show us all their matchups from Kareem's 3rd year onwards.

As for Kareem outplaying Hakeem & Ewing, that's cause Kareem's playing with GOAT PG + had awesome conditioning + Hakeem & Ewing was just sophomore. Most players were not close to as good as their prime self in their rookie and sophomore years, even if their stats suggest otherwise.

Kareem was at his near peak by his sophomore year. He won the scoring title, at 31.7 ppg, grabbed 16.0 rpg, shot .577 (which, BTW, came in a league that shot .449...which meant that his overall .128 differential was his all-time high), all in 40.1 mpg. In the course of that season, he won the MVP, and then the FMVP. So, yes, Kareem was at his peak by his second year. And, THAT same season, in 10 H2h games, Chamberlain was outscored by Kareem, 26.1 ppg to 22.6 ppg, but outrebounded Kareem, 17.6 rpg, and outshot Kareem, .490 to .454. And, that was from a 34 year old Wilt, who was only a year removed from major knee surgery.

In Wilt's LAST season, which was Kareem's FOURTH, Kareem did outscore Wilt in their six H2H games, by a 29 ppg to 11 ppg margin. HOWEVER, Wilt outshot Kareem in those six H2H's, by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. So, in Wilt's record shattering season of shooting .727 from the floor, he STILL shot better against Kareem. Not only that, but that .737 mark was nearly 200 points higher than his career average of .540. Meanwhile, Kareem's .450 came in a season in which Kareem shot .554 against the entire league, or over 100 points below his seasonal FG%. AND, that .450 was also over a 100 points below his career mark of .559. On top of all of that, Chamberlain even took the time to OUTSCORE Kareem in a game, 24-21, while outshooting him from the floor, 10-14 to 10-27. BTW, Kareem also had two other H2H games against Wilt that season, in which he shot 12-31 and 11-30.

Overall, in their LAST TEN H2H games, covering the last four playoff games from the '72 WCF's, and their six regular season H2H's in '73, Wilt held Kareem to .434 shooting.And that was a PRIME Kareem.

As for Hakeem, much like Kareem, by his second season, he was already near his peak. By his third season he would be first team all-defense. In his ROOKIE year, he shot a CAREER high .538 from the floor (of course, it came in a year in which the NBA had it's highest FG% season in it's history.)

Some players will get marginally better, but usually by their second season, they are already near their peaks. Hakeem's so-called peak in the mid-90's resulted in a few more ppg, but he was already on the down side in terms of rebounding (which came in his '89 and '90 seasons.) And his FG%'s, which were never that outstanding for a center anyway, never came close to his rookie season (and they were barely better than his second season.)

So, NO, Hakeem was NOT significantly more dominant later in his career. Of course, on the flip side of that, Kareem was 38 thru 42 when he faced Hakeem. At ages 38 and 39, and with Hakeem trying to guard him (and that is indisputable BTW), Kareem had TEN straight games of 31.8 ppg on a mind-boggling .630 shooting. And, this was a Kareem who could barely get off the floor, and who was playing 23 to 33 mpg.

Now, reverse that...and pit a 23 year old Kareem against a 39 year old Hakeem, and you tell me just how much of a bloodbath would we have seen. And before someone jumps in about Wilt, Chamberlain was 36 (nearly 37) in his LAST season. And, at that age, he LED the NBA in rebounding, was voted FIRST TEAM all-defense, and set a FG% mark of .727. And, then in the post-season, he averaged 22.5 rpg, while playing 47.1 mpg, in a post-season in which the average team had 50.6 rpg.

Furthermore, just ask Larry Brown how good a MID-40's Wilt might have been...


Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career had ended. On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. "Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt. "So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim." Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, and he remained in top physical shape until recently

Stewart, Larry (1999-10-13). "Giant Towered Over the Rest". The Los Angeles Times.

And once again, Kareem never faced a PRIME Chamberlain. The closest he got to THAT Wilt came in their very first meeting, and Wilt outscored, outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and outshot Kareem in that game. And that was a 33 year old Wilt.

Kareem faced MANY of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain did, yet, where are his 38 and 45 point games against Thurmond? Or his 52 and 58 point games against Reed? Or his THREE 60+ point games, and with a high of 73, against Bellamy? Where is his 60 point game against Dierking? Where is his 66 point game against Fox? And where is his 100 point game against Imhoff? Hell, Kareem faced Thurmond in over 50 H2H games, and his HIGH game against him was 34 points. In the dozen games in which Wilt was in his "scoring" prime, he hung games of 34, 34, 38, and 45 on Thurmond (as well as scoring 24 second half points in a game against Nate in the '67 season, and after a halftime strategy change by his coach.)

[jlauber]

And lets not forget that Akeem in his 2nd year as a pro dominated Kareem and the Lakers bigs badly in the playoffs of 1986, he lead his Rocket team to an easy 4-1 win in the series.

The idiot Jlauber never mentions that, he only mentions the games where Kareem got the better of Akeem which is pretty pathetic.

Two points. One, Hakeem was NOT the primary defender on the 39 year old Kareem in that playoff series (a series in which Hakeem outscored Kareem by a whopping 31 ppg to 27 ppg margin I might add)...it was SAMPSON (with HELP from Hakeem.) And, those were the ONLY five games, in Kareem's 28 H2H games against the Rockets, in which Sampson was the primary defender. In the remaining 23 H2H games, and in which we KNOW that Hakeem guarded Kareem, a 38-42 year old Abdul Jabbar outscored Hakeem, 23-22 ppg, and outshot him by an astonishing .610 to .512 margin.

Of course, the second point was that this was a 38 to 42 year old Kareem. A Kareem who was much fatherr from his prime, than Hakeem was from his.

What is PATHETIC is that a 38-39 year old Kareem could just swamp a 22-23 Hakeem with TEN straight games of 32 ppg on .630 shooting. A Kareem who torched the helpless Hakeem with THREE 40+ point games, including one of 46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes...and in a game in which Hakeem's coach was ripped by the press afterwards, for allowing that bloodbath.

A 38 and 39 year old Kareem mind you. Not a PRIME Kareem.

[millwad]

Two points. One, Hakeem was NOT the primary defender on the 39 year old Kareem in that playoff series (a series in which Hakeem outscored Kareem by a whopping 31 ppg to 27 ppg margin I might add)...it was SAMPSON (with HELP from Hakeem.) And, those were the ONLY five games, in Kareem's 28 H2H games against the Rockets, in which Sampson was the primary defender. In the remaining 23 H2H games, and in which we KNOW that Hakeem guarded Kareem, a 38-42 year old Abdul Jabbar outscored Hakeem, 23-22 ppg, and outshot him by an astonishing .610 to .512 margin.

Of course, the second point was that this was a 38 to 42 year old Kareem. A Kareem who was much fatherr from his prime, than Hakeem was from his.

What is PATHETIC is that a 38-39 year old Kareem could just swamp a 22-23 Hakeem with TEN straight games of 32 ppg on .630 shooting. A Kareem who torched the helpless Hakeem with THREE 40+ point games, including one of 46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes...and in a game in which Hakeem's coach was ripped by the press afterwards, for allowing that bloodbath.

A 38 and 39 year old Kareem mind you. Not a PRIME Kareem.

Haha, this crap is funny.

When it's Wilt it's OK that he gets outscored with 23 points per game with while getting outshot and outassisted... That is still "Wilt killing Kareem", but 2nd year pro Akeem who was no where near his prime outplaying Kareem by much is not worth anything at all.

It's funny how you work, when it's about Hakeem you do whatever you can to make him look worse. In the series in '95 where he outplayed Shaq in the finals you called it "Hakeem getting outplayed".. Why? Because of the stats in that series (which is a great proof that you didn't see the games to start with) but at the same time you are the first one to spam about how Kareem got "murdered" while outscoring Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG%..:facepalm

You're pathetic..

[miller-time]

he'd be an all-star, but not a super star. something on the level of a robinson or barkley. great player but out of contention for GOAT discussion.

[Asukal]

he'd be an all-star, but not a super star. something on the level of a robinson or barkley. great player but out of contention for GOAT discussion.

Are you crazy?! Wilt can play 1v5 easily and dominate everyone on the court including the refs!!!! He'd easily win every title in the weak 90s!!! :bowdown:

[jlauber]

Haha, this crap is funny.

When it's Wilt it's OK that he gets outscored with 23 points per game with while getting outshot and outassisted... That is still "Wilt killing Kareem", but 2nd year pro Akeem who was no where near his prime outplaying Kareem by much is not worth anything at all.

It's funny how you work, when it's about Hakeem you do whatever you can to make him look worse. In the series in '95 where he outplayed Shaq in the finals you called it "Hakeem getting outplayed".. Why? Because of the stats in that series (which is a great proof that you didn't see the games to start with) but at the same time you are the first one to spam about how Kareem got "murdered" while outscoring Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG%..:facepalm

You're pathetic..

A 36 year old Wilt who CLEARLY outplayed the PRIME Kareem in that series. A shell-shocked Kareem who could only shoot .414 over the course of the last FOUR games of that '72 WCF's, and who was beaten to a pulp in the clinching game six win.

Meanwhile, in the '95 Finals, a supposed prime Hakeem, who shot jacked to a 32 ppg to 28 ppg edge over the young Shaq, but was outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and outshot by a staggering .595 to .483 margin, and in a series in which his TEAMMATES massacred Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field, from the arc, and from the line.

Of course, you NEVER bring up a more prime Shaq just MURDERING Hakeem in the '99 playoffs. Or the fact that Shaq easily outplayed Hakeem in their entire H2H's...

and in BOTH their regular season H2H's, and in their POST-SEASON H2H's...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

[jlauber]

he'd be an all-star, but not a super star. something on the level of a robinson or barkley. great player but out of contention for GOAT discussion.

And you KNOW this how again?

[jlauber]

You mean rookie and sophomore Kareem? :oldlol: Go ahead, show us all their matchups from Kareem's 3rd year onwards.

As for Kareem outplaying Hakeem & Ewing, that's cause Kareem's playing with GOAT PG + had awesome conditioning + Hakeem & Ewing was just sophomore. Most players were not close to as good as their prime self in their rookie and sophomore years, even if their stats suggest otherwise.


BTW, a 23 year old Moses was already matching a 30 year old Kareem. And from that point on, Moses thoroughly outplayed Kareem in their many H2H's, including in the 79-80 season, when Kareem won his last MVP (Moses outscored Kareem in their H2H's that season, by a 30 ppg to 20 ppg margin.) In fact, from '79 thru '85, it was a one-sided beatdown.

[millwad]

A 36 year old Wilt who CLEARLY outplayed the PRIME Kareem in that series. A shell-shocked Kareem who could only shoot .414 over the course of the last FOUR games of that '72 WCF's, and who was beaten to a pulp in the clinching game six win.

And still he outshot Wilt in that series, the difference? Kareem averaged around 33 points per game in that series compared to Wilt's 10.. :roll:



Meanwhile, in the '95 Finals, a supposed prime Hakeem, who shot jacked to a 32 ppg to 28 ppg edge over the young Shaq, but was outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and outshot by a staggering .595 to .483 margin, and in a series in which his TEAMMATES massacred Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field, from the arc, and from the line.

Haha, you are so terrible. Even Shaq will tell you he got outplayed, are we supposed to trust a troll like you? Game 2 and 4 were clearly Hakeem dominating Shaq. Shaq got game 1 and game 3 was at best a tie between the two of them. How is that Shaq dominating Hakeem you troll?

Hakeem sweeping Shaq while outplaying him clearly in 2 out of 4 games is according to you, Shaq dominating Hakeem. But Kareem outscoring Wilt by 23 points per game on better FG% while outassisting him is not Kareem outplaying Wilt.. Why? Because a newspaper said so... You seem to fall in love with newspapers, now go and make some research regarding what newspapers said about Hakeem outplaying Shaq in that series.. Or even better, ask Shaq...


And haha, 99 playoffs, a 36 year old Hakeem, haha.
You always whine about Wilt being old in '72 and then you mention an even older Hakeem.. :facepalm

Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in '72, lets even find a game where Shaq scored 40 points on Hakeem..

It's funny how you use stats in situations where you can get something out of it and when you can't, you don't mention stats. Like how trolled ISH about Wilt "murdered", "abused" and "crushed" Kareem in '72.. Then you got confronted with stats..:facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

I cant believe you two are still in this argument. Who can you even be trying to convince? Neither of you cares to listen has no chance of changing and are repeating 20 to 40 year old facts at eachother daily for like 6 months.

If whatever your points are were gonna sink in to the other guy wouldnt they have done it by now?

[millwad]

I cant believe you two are still in this argument. Who can you even be trying to convince? Neither of you cares to listen has no chance of changing and are repeating 20 to 40 year old facts at eachother daily for like 6 months.

If whatever your points are were gonna sink in to the other guy wouldnt they have done it by now?

You're right, I will stop wasting my time from now..

[-23-]

How much does he weigh? Over 300lbs?


Are you stupid dude? Ok first off , Wilt has extra long arms, benching is far more difficult; and his arms look NOTHING like the people who can bench 500lbs. Lay off the pipe you parasite.

[-23-]

You're right, I will stop wasting my time from now..


Jlauber and his pet dog Cavalier are two parasites sucking on Wilt's nuts. Funny how Jlauber had a sudden change of view on the game, and Cavalier just repeats the same shit.

:biggums:

[Tmuston Beltics]

Clearly a fake picture.. 3 white basketball players in one picture and it's not taken of the crowd :coleman:

[jlauber]

I cant believe you two are still in this argument. Who can you even be trying to convince? Neither of you cares to listen has no chance of changing and are repeating 20 to 40 year old facts at eachother daily for like 6 months.

If whatever your points are were gonna sink in to the other guy wouldnt they have done it by now?

The basic premise is pretty simple, except to the mentally challenged. A PRIME Kareem was outplayed by an OLD Wilt (on a surgically repaired knee.) A VERY OLD Kareem (at an age when Hakeem could barely walk to the floor) absolutely flamed a young athletic Hakeem. I don't care who the players were...a 39 year old averaging 32 ppg on .630 shooting, and in 10 straight meetings, against even a lower echelon NBA center would be a monumental accomplishment. But to do so against whom many regard as one of the best centers, even in the 80s, and who would be a top-2 or 3 center in the 90's, speaks volumes about just how great not only Chamberlain was (which would only be a question by an uneducated moron), BUT how great players like Cowens, Lanier, Thurmond, and Gilmore were...all of whom gave Kareem all he could handle (Gilmore was probably Kareem's equal in their many H2H's.) And very few here acknowledge that a 6-10 Moses OWNED Kareem in their bulk of their 26 H2H's...and even moreso in their playoff H2H's.

Yet, we have a stupid topic like this...asking IF Chamberlain would make an All-Star team in the 90's??? A better question would be, ...would ANY version of Chamberlain, including an OLD Wilt, NOT have made the All-Star team in the 90's? Based upon what we KNOW, a PRIME Chamberlain would have FEASTED on the centers of the 90's. A Chamberlain who was FAR more dominant against many of the same centers that Kareem would face a few years later.

[jlauber]

Jlauber and his pet dog Cavalier are two parasites sucking on Wilt's nuts. Funny how Jlauber had a sudden change of view on the game, and Cavalier just repeats the same shit.

:biggums:

And funny how YOU NEVER contribute ONE shred of knowledge in ANY of YOUR posts.

[Asukal]

Good job gaylauber!!! Spread the Wilt love yo! :rockon:

[MMM]

Wilt was the most gifted athlete basketball has ever seen and probably one of the most gifted athletes throughout sports history. However, I can understand why people would have doubts about him.

[Psileas]

The real question is: Would Chris Gatling make an All-Star team if he played in the '90s?

Chris who?
Oh, wait: http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_1997.html :oldlol:

Excuse: Oh, wait, he doesn't count, he played badly.

How about Jamaal Magloire?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2004.html

Excuse: Oh, wait, he doesn't count, that's in the 2000's.

Is that right, OP?

Oh, wait, I can't read you, you are in my Ignore List.

[-23-]

And funny how YOU NEVER contribute ONE shred of knowledge in ANY of YOUR posts.

Funny how you dodge your past posting history.

[Whoah10115]

kblaze wrote a great post, but he should use his mod powers and delete this. Seriously, you think that you're using your brain and going after jlauber for what you think is a bullshit fetish, but the only thing you're doing is sounding like a loser.

[Simple Jack]

I think the average player in the 1960's is better at playing 1960's style basketball than the average player in 2012 would be at playing 1960's basketball.

And I think the average 1960's player is going to be worse at playing in 2012 style basketball than 2012 players are at playing 2012 style basketball. Make sense? Different sets of rules, different skill sets , different coaching, and different plays were used. Tim Duncan would be awesome in the 60's. Javale McGee and Joel Anthony wouldn't even be drafted.

You can clearly answer the question I posed in a general, direct manner considering you are willing to make cross-era hypothetical comparisons. Do you think the average player in the 1960's better than the average player today?

[Deuce Bigalow]

kblaze wrote a great post, but he should use his mod powers and delete this. Seriously, you think that you're using your brain and going after jlauber for what you think is a bullshit fetish, but the only thing you're doing is sounding like a loser.
what did you quote?

[Deuce Bigalow]

All star????? Why don't you try GOAT star!!!!! :bowdown:

Wilt would dominate every player he would play against in any era!!!!! Shaq? pffft he'd grab him by the tail and flung him 100 meters away!!!! :bowdown:

With the slower pace of the 90s, Wilt would block every shot from his opponents!!! :bowdown:

My gawd, if he ****ed 20000 in his era, he'd probably **** 1000000 women in the 90s and 1000000000 in today's NBA. Wilt GOAT!!! :bowdown:

Wilt is so strong he benched 500 lbs during his time!!! With today's methods and medicine, he'd bench 1000lbs easily!! No sweat!! :applause:

Don't ever diss Wilt! Gaylauber storm is coming at you!!! :no:
He picks up 100 pound dumbells as easily as we pick up our telephones
He benched over 460 pounds at age 59 like it was a 'match stick'
Dunked the ball so hard it crushed opponent toes
He also was a world class volleyball player and he's in the volleyball hall of fame
My God, did I forget to say my God? :bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Funny how you dodge your past posting history.
He said that Bill Russell today would be Ben Wallace
So the guy that won 11 championships in Wilt's era, the guy who only allowed Wilt to win 1 championship when he was in the league would be Ben Wallace today.

[CavaliersFTW]

Are you stupid dude? Ok first off , Wilt has extra long arms, benching is far more difficult; and his arms look NOTHING like the people who can bench 500lbs. Lay off the pipe you parasite.

Do my posts look stupid to you? Tell me how you really feel

[CavaliersFTW]

He picks up 100 pound dumbells as easily as we pick up our telephones
He benched over 460 pounds at age 59 like it was a 'match stick'
Dunked the ball so hard it crushed opponent toes
He also was a world class volleyball player and he's in the volleyball hall of fame
My God, did I forget to say my God? :bowdown:

Your always sarcastic and I'm pretty sure your just trolling which is fine.

But in case you or anyone else is genuinely interested in discussing this: IMO when this chat thing was going on and that guy recalled seeing Wilt "Bench Press 465lbs like it was a match stick" was speaking in past-tense.

Honestly, it could have been as far back as the 1980's for all we know, Wilt looked (strength-wise) like he was in a peak conditioning perhaps in ~1984 for that movie Conan the Destroyer. He was weighed in at exactly 327lbs at that time. That's the same weight that Shaq was entering a training camp (out of shape - and round) in '00. Yet that 327lb Shaq - composed of a significantly higher bodyfat %, is okay in your minds to have been able to bench press 450lbs?

If so how is that okay, but a guy who weighs exactly the same but with barely any body fat benching 15lbs more suddenly isn't okay?

Explain

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm pretty sure your just trolling which is fine but IMO when this chat thing was going on - what was being said about this guy seeing Wilt "Bench Press 465lbs like it was a match stick" was past-tense.

Meaning it could have been as far back as the 1980's for all we know, after all Wilt looks like he was in peak conditioning in ~1984 for that movie Conan the Destroyer. He was 327lbs at that time. That's the same weight that Shaq was entering training camp (out of shape - and round) in '00. Yet this Shaq with a much higher % of his body weight located in fat, can bench 450lbs? That's okay for you guys, but a guy who weighs exactly the same but with barely any body fat benching 15lbs more isn't okay?

Please explain
I don't know how much Shaq can bench, but Shaq is bigger than Wilt. Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq.

[jlauber]

I don't know how much Shaq can bench, but Shaq is bigger than Wilt. Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jlauber]

Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jlauber]

I don't know how much Shaq can bench, but Shaq is bigger than Wilt. Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[jlauber]

Dunce Bungalow's posts...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jlauber]

BTW Dunce...

YOU still have not answered MY question. Where is YOUR evidence on Wilt's ACTUAL bench press? I have provided NUMEROUS sources in MY research on the topic, but all you bring up is that YOU don't believe them.

And once again, while the internet is PLASTERED with Chamberlain's bench press numbers, many in the 500+ range, where are the LEGITIMATE first hand accounts that DISPUTE them?

Why?

Until you can answer the above, please, refrain from wasting the time of the actual intelligent posters on this forum.

[Kiarip]

I don't know how much Shaq can bench, but Shaq is bigger than Wilt. Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq.

you're a moron stop posting.

god DAMN you're so stupid.

[Bodhi]

"Chamberlain once recalled driving across Arizona or New Mexico and pulling his car momentarily to the side of the road, when he was attacked by a mountain lion. He said the mountain lion jumped on his shoulder, and he grabbed it by the tail and flung it into the bushes.

''Well, I wasn't there,'' Cal Ramsey, the former Knick announcer, once said, ''but Wilt says it happened, and I'm not about to say it didn't. Besides, he showed me these huge scratch marks on one shoulder. I don't know any other way he could have gotten them.''

He also claims to have slept with 20,000 women and had a 50 inch vertical.

Come on, nobody actually believes Wilt's stories, right?

[jlauber]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by a solid margin.) He was voted first team all-defense (in a league with Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, Cowens, and Kareem.) He shot .727 from the floor, which is an all-time record. In the playoffs, he played in 17 post-season games, taking his 60-22 Lakers to their FOURTH Finals in his FIVE years in LA. And, he played 47.1 mpg in those 17 games. AND, he averaged 22.5 rpg in those 17 games. Now, think about this...THAT was the LAST time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In FACT, the next highest post-season, since, was Kareem's 17.3 rpg, in his 11 post-season games in the 76-77 season.

And, BTW, Wilt faced Kareem in SIX regular season H2H's in Wilt's LAST season. He outshot Kareem in those H2H's, by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. THIS, from a 36 (nearly 37) year old Wilt, and in his LAST post-season. Then, while Kareem led his 60-22 Bucks down in flames in the first round of the playoffs against Nate Thurmond's 47-35 Warriors, in a series in which Kareem shot .428 from the floor...Wilt LED HIS 60-22 Lakers to a 4-1 blowout over Nate's Warriors in the very next round, in a series in which he outrebounded Nate, per game, 23.6 to 17.2, and outshot him, .550 to .398.


THAT was a Chamberlain in his LAST NBA season. Now, go back to a PRIME Wilt, in the mid-60's. For instance, in his 65-66 season, Chamberlain LED the NBA in scoring, and by a solid margin, at 33.5 ppg. He LED the NBA in rebounding, and by a solid margin, at 24.6 rpg. He set a then-record in FG% (which he shattered the very next season) at .540 (in a league that shot .433 overall.) He even took the time to hand out 5.2 apg. Oh, and BTW, he LED his TEAM to the BEST RECORD in the league.

Not only all of the above, but he DESTROYED the league's BEST centers in that season. He outscored 6-11 HOF center, in their ten regular season H2H's, 8-1-1, and by a 33 ppg to 24 ppg margin. Included in those games were games in which he wiped out Bellamy by margins of 37-22, 38-23, 34-19, and 50-26.

Wilt faced 6-11 HOF center in nine H2H meetings in that 65-66 season. He outscored him 8-1. Included in those H2H's were games in which Wilt outscored Thurmond by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 26-9, 38-15, and even a monster 45-13 margin.

And Chamberlain faced the 6-10 HOFer Russell in a total of 14 H2H games, nine in the regular season, and five in the playoffs. In those 14 games, Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 28.2 ppg to 12.5 ppg. And, in those 14 games, Wilt enjoyed a 13-1 scoring edge. Chamberlain also outrebounded Russell in those 14 games, by a 10-4 margin. And in the process, he averaged 30.5 rpg to Russell's 24.0 rpg.

And how about these games that Wilt POUNDED Russell with that season...He had games where he outscored Russell by margins of 27-6, 29-3, 30-5, 28-13, 31-11, 32-8, 31-11, and in the clinching game five of the '66 ECF's, he outscored Russell, 46-18. How about his rebounding margins against Russell that season? He had margins of 30-10, 40-17, 36-20, 32-18, 30-20, and 42-25.

THAT was a PRIME "scoring" Wilt, who just OBLITERATED the NBA that season.

Of course, that was not the only season, either. Against Russell in the 66-67 season, Chamberlain not only led his 68-13 Sixers to a 4-1 rout of Russell's 60-21 Celtics in the ECF's, he did so by outscoring him, per game, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg; by outassisting Russell, per game, in that series, 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg; by outrebounding Russell in that series, 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg; and by outshooting Russell from the floor in that series, .556 to .358. BTW, in the Finals that season, he outscored and outrebounded Thurmond, in five of their six H2H's, and outshot him from the floor in that series, .560 to .343.

Or that in the 64-65 season, Wilt faced HOFer Willis Reed in nine regular season H2H's, and outscored him, per game, by a 40.1 ppg to 24.8 ppg. He held an 8-1 edge in scoring batles that year against Reed, including games in which the margins were by 37-22, 41-8, 52-23, and 58-28.

Or that Wilt had entire seasons, against Russell, of 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg (outscoring Russell in those nine games that year by a 38.1 ppg to 14.0 margin.) Or that Chamberlain held a 24-0 edge in 40+ point games against Russell, including FIVE of 50+, and even one game in which he outscored Russell by a 62-23 margin (on 27-45 shooting.) Or that Wilt held a 132-10 margin in scoring H2H's against Russell. Or that Chamberlain held a 92-42-8 rebounding margin in those 142 H2H's, including MANY in which he just buried Russell (e.g., one game by a 55-19 margin.) Or that Wilt had FOUR post-seasons against Russell of 30+ ppg, and two more of 28.0 ppg and 29.2 ppg. In one of those post-season H2H's, Chamberlain put up a seven game series of 30 ppg and 31 rpg against Russell.

And Chamberlain absolutely CRUSHED Bellamy in their H2H's. In a span of 20 straight games, covering the '62 and '63 seasons, Chamberlain averaged 47 ppg against Bellamy (43.7 ppg in '63, and a mind-boggling 52.7 ppg in '62.) Included in those H2H's were THREE games of 60+, and a HIGH game of 73 points (and with 36 rebounds.)

Now, if a PRIME Chamberlain could CARPET BOMB those HOF centers, just what in the hell would he have done in the 90's???

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is there anybody more delusional than jlauber?

[miller-time]

And you KNOW this how again?

i don't know it. it is speculation like everyone elses post in this thread.

[Deuce Bigalow]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by a solid margin.) He was voted first team all-defense (in a league with Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, Cowens, and Kareem.) He shot .727 from the floor, which is an all-time record. In the playoffs, he played in 17 post-season games, taking his 60-22 Lakers to their FOURTH Finals in his FIVE years in LA. And, he played 47.1 mpg in those 17 games. AND, he averaged 22.5 rpg in those 17 games. Now, think about this...THAT was the LAST time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In FACT, the next highest post-season, since, was Kareem's 17.3 rpg, in his 11 post-season games in the 76-77 season.

And, BTW, Wilt faced Kareem in SIX regular season H2H's in Wilt's LAST season. He outshot Kareem in those H2H's, by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. THIS, from a 36 (nearly 37) year old Wilt, and in his LAST post-season. Then, while Kareem led his 60-22 Bucks down in flames in the first round of the playoffs against Nate Thurmond's 47-35 Warriors, in a series in which Kareem shot .428 from the floor...Wilt LED HIS 60-22 Lakers to a 4-1 blowout over Nate's Warriors in the very next round, in a series in which he outrebounded Nate, per game, 23.6 to 17.2, and outshot him, .550 to .398.


THAT was a Chamberlain in his LAST NBA season. Now, go back to a PRIME Wilt, in the mid-60's. For instance, in his 65-66 season, Chamberlain LED the NBA in scoring, and by a solid margin, at 33.5 ppg. He LED the NBA in rebounding, and by a solid margin, at 24.6 rpg. He set a then-record in FG% (which he shattered the very next season) at .540 (in a league that shot .433 overall.) He even took the time to hand out 5.2 apg. Oh, and BTW, he LED his TEAM to the BEST RECORD in the league.

Not only all of the above, but he DESTROYED the league's BEST centers in that season. He outscored 6-11 HOF center, in their ten regular season H2H's, 8-1-1, and by a 33 ppg to 24 ppg margin. Included in those games were games in which he wiped out Bellamy by margins of 37-22, 38-23, 34-19, and 50-26.

Wilt faced 6-11 HOF center in nine H2H meetings in that 65-66 season. He outscored him 8-1. Included in those H2H's were games in which Wilt outscored Thurmond by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 26-9, 38-15, and even a monster 45-13 margin.

And Chamberlain faced the 6-10 HOFer Russell in a total of 14 H2H games, nine in the regular season, and five in the playoffs. In those 14 games, Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 28.2 ppg to 12.5 ppg. And, in those 14 games, Wilt enjoyed a 13-1 scoring edge. Chamberlain also outrebounded Russell in those 14 games, by a 10-4 margin. And in the process, he averaged 30.5 rpg to Russell's 24.0 rpg.

And how about these games that Wilt POUNDED Russell with that season...He had games where he outscored Russell by margins of 27-6, 29-3, 30-5, 28-13, 31-11, 32-8, 31-11, and in the clinching game five of the '66 ECF's, he outscored Russell, 46-18. How about his rebounding margins against Russell that season? He had margins of 30-10, 40-17, 36-20, 32-18, 30-20, and 42-25.

THAT was a PRIME "scoring" Wilt, who just OBLITERATED the NBA that season.

Of course, that was not the only season, either. Against Russell in the 66-67 season, Chamberlain not only led his 68-13 Sixers to a 4-1 rout of Russell's 60-21 Celtics in the ECF's, he did so by outscoring him, per game, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg; by outassisting Russell, per game, in that series, 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg; by outrebounding Russell in that series, 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg; and by outshooting Russell from the floor in that series, .556 to .358. BTW, in the Finals that season, he outscored and outrebounded Thurmond, in five of their six H2H's, and outshot him from the floor in that series, .560 to .343.

Or that in the 64-65 season, Wilt faced HOFer Willis Reed in nine regular season H2H's, and outscored him, per game, by a 40.1 ppg to 24.8 ppg. He held an 8-1 edge in scoring batles that year against Reed, including games in which the margins were by 37-22, 41-8, 52-23, and 58-28.

Or that Wilt had entire seasons, against Russell, of 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg (outscoring Russell in those nine games that year by a 38.1 ppg to 14.0 margin.) Or that Chamberlain held a 24-0 edge in 40+ point games against Russell, including FIVE of 50+, and even one game in which he outscored Russell by a 62-23 margin (on 27-45 shooting.) Or that Wilt held a 132-10 margin in scoring H2H's against Russell. Or that Chamberlain held a 92-42-8 rebounding margin in those 142 H2H's, including MANY in which he just buried Russell (e.g., one game by a 55-19 margin.) Or that Wilt had FOUR post-seasons against Russell of 30+ ppg, and two more of 28.0 ppg and 29.2 ppg. In one of those post-season H2H's, Chamberlain put up a seven game series of 30 ppg and 31 rpg against Russell.

And Chamberlain absolutely CRUSHED Bellamy in their H2H's. In a span of 20 straight games, covering the '62 and '63 seasons, Chamberlain averaged 47 ppg against Bellamy (43.7 ppg in '63, and a mind-boggling 52.7 ppg in '62.) Included in those H2H's were THREE games of 60+, and a HIGH game of 73 points (and with 36 rebounds.)

Now, if a PRIME Chamberlain could CARPET BOMB those HOF centers, just what in the hell would he have done in the 90's???
http://i.imm.io/hZG5.jpeg

[Deuce Bigalow]

you're a moron stop posting.

god DAMN you're so stupid.
No. You're stupid if you believe he can bench 500, beat up a mountain lion and threw it by it's tail, lifted 100 lb dumbells 'as easily as we pick up our telephones', at age 59 benched 465 like it was a 'match stick', is in the volleyball hall of fame, had a 50" vertical, dunked freethrows, ect

[Kiarip]

I know guys who benched 500+ pounds, and no they don't look like the pictures of arnold or others you've posted because they're POWERLIFTERS, not BODYBUILDERS.

A mountain lion is relatively small. regardless whether it did or did not happen I do think it could have happened. A mountain lion can be beat down by one very physical person. it weighs like 250 pounds, if Wilt DID benchpress 500 pounds, then he would have had no problem throwing a mountain lion by its tail, in fact he WAS a shot-putter in college.

so yeah... every single post that I've seen you make just shows an underlying lack of understanding of sports and athletics, and this thread is no exception.

[jlauber]

No. You're stupid if you believe he can bench 500, beat up a mountain lion and threw it by it's tail, lifted 100 lb dumbells 'as easily as we pick up our telephones', at age 59 benched 465 like it was a 'match stick', is in the volleyball hall of fame, had a 50" vertical, dunked freethrows, ect

Let's see...just GOOGLE Wilt's bench press. MANY accounts of 500+. Here again, YOU have NOT provided ONE shred of evidence to refute it. Where are all of those that DISPUTE it?

Mountain lion story. How big was the it? Do YOU know? BTW, I have never heard that quote directly from Wilt.

Curling 110 lb. dumbbells like you or I woulds pick up a telephone. Again, NOT from Wilt, but rather a 6-5 250 lb. weight-lifter by the name of Fluke Fluker, who actually worked out with Wilt in the 90's.

At age 59 was benching 465 lbs. Well, this was brought up by a EYE-WITNESS during an MSNBC interview when Chamberlain was 59 years old.

Volleyball HOF? TRUE, he IS in the Volleyball HOF.

50" vertical? Probably the only real questionable comment from Wilt, although he have VIDEO FOOTAGE of Chamberlain with his fingertips near the top of the backboard (a leap which would have required about a 40" vertical), and in which he had no time to react, jumped straight up (no running start), had been playing at a frenetic pace (no rest), and in which he used his OFF-HAND to block the shot. CLEARLY, those like well respected Philadelphia sports icon, Sonny Hill, and long-time Sixer trainer, Al Domenico, were right when they claimed that they WITNESSED Chamberlain touching the top of the back board.

Dunked FT's? Well, we have a VIDEO conversation with none other than TEX WINTER, who claims to have seen a high school Wilt take three steps from behind the line, and DUNK a FT. Now, do we believe YOU, who has provided absolutely NOTHING, or do we acknowledge TEX WINTER's claim, which, BTW, resulted in the BANNING of the DUNKING of FT's, BECAUSE of WILT?

Next...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let's see...just GOOGLE Wilt's bench press. MANY accounts of 500+. Here again, YOU have NOT provided ONE shred of evidence to refute it. Where are all of those that DISPUTE it?

Mountain lion story. How big was the it? Do YOU know? BTW, I have never heard that quote directly from Wilt.

Curling 110 lb. dumbbells like you or I woulds pick up a telephone. Again, NOT from Wilt, but rather a 6-5 250 lb. weight-lifter by the name of Fluke Fluker, who actually worked out with Wilt in the 90's.

At age 59 was benching 465 lbs. Well, this was brought up by a EYE-WITNESS during an MSNBC interview when Chamberlain was 59 years old.

Volleyball HOF? TRUE, he IS in the Volleyball HOF.

50" vertical? Probably the only real questionable comment from Wilt, although he have VIDEO FOOTAGE of Chamberlain with his fingertips near the top of the backboard (a leap which would have required about a 40" vertical), and in which he had no time to react, jumped straight up (no running start), had been playing at a frenetic pace (no rest), and in which he used his OFF-HAND to block the shot. CLEARLY, those like well respected Philadelphia sports icon, Sonny Hill, and long-time Sixer trainer, Al Domenico, were right when they claimed that they WITNESSED Chamberlain touching the top of the back board.

Dunked FT's? Well, we have a VIDEO conversation with none other than TEX WINTER, who claims to have seen a high school Wilt take three steps from behind the line, and DUNK a FT. Now, do we believe YOU, who has provided absolutely NOTHING, or do we acknowledge TEX WINTER's claim, which, BTW, resulted in the BANNING of the DUNKING of FT's, BECAUSE of WILT?

Next...
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/dwyane%20wade/yes-this-is-real-life.jpg

[jbryan1984]

I never saw him play obviously, but everything I have read, Wilt was a big fish in a small pond. It was an era where the NBA was very weak, probably 85% of the guys playing then would not be playing today. Of course he was a star, but he probably was no better than Shaq, Hakeem, etc. Look at a lot of the other all-stars from the 60's, look at what they averaged. A lot of them, under 20 PPG. You wouldn't be in an ASG today.

[Whoah10115]

Who cares about mountain lions and what he could bench. The fact is that people of your (Le OP) ilk (lol) are responsible for all these kinds of ramblings. Because you flat out disrespect older players based on these stupid stories that no one gives a shit about.



Your question about Wilt the basketball player is a stupid one and offensive to any of the players you rep, as your opinion is made of shit.




What's the point in blah blah blah when you don't listen to what he has to say? What's the point in egging him on when he just lists all his research as facts? Just argue other facts, instead of making Chamberlain out to be some bum. Your jokes aren't even funny because your agenda is reeking thru.



Blah.

[CavaliersFTW]

I don't know how much Shaq can bench, but Shaq is bigger than Wilt. Shaq would destroy Wilt if they ever played. Wilt is not even bigger than Andrew Bynum, let alone Shaq.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r8Jra4iv334/T2aaFy76TmI/AAAAAAAADPs/CS9mtSJGG_c/s800/Shaq%2520Wilt%2520Scale.jpg

[Whoah10115]

Shaq ain't no 327 and hasn't been in 15 years so let's just not use him as an example.

[CavaliersFTW]

I never saw him play obviously, but everything I have read, Wilt was a big fish in a small pond. It was an era where the NBA was very weak, probably 85% of the guys playing then would not be playing today. Of course he was a star, but he probably was no better than Shaq, Hakeem, etc. Look at a lot of the other all-stars from the 60's, look at what they averaged. A lot of them, under 20 PPG. You wouldn't be in an ASG today.

BS - dude, joel anthony and javale mcGee are in today's league... Leagues leading rebounder was 6'7.75" Kevin Love last year. The best center in the league was 6'9 Dwight Howard. The leagues leading shotblocker was 6'11 Andrew Bogut. Zydrunas "Frankenstein" Ilgauskus had a full career and was even an all star despite crippled feet. When people say ridiculous stuff like this it is incredibly slanderous to an entire decade of NBA players which you've never even heard of and know absolutely nothing about. Thank you for making IH just a little bit dumber for spreading your erroneous unfounded opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw

None of these players who "won't make it in today's NBA" are any worse than Joel Anthony, nor nearly as stupid as JaFail McGee, nor less athletic than Andrew Bogut, nor are the "bigs" any smaller than Kevin Love or Dwight Howard. So try a little harder to learn about Wilt's era before telling everyone it wasn't any good.

[CavaliersFTW]

Shaq ain't no 327 and hasn't been in 15 years so let's just not use him as an example.

Um.. no, let's use him as an example because he was exactly 327 during the '00-'01 season which is the year of the picture I selected. Which also coincides with when he was benching 450lbs. He is scaled 1:1 next to the 48 year old 327lb Wilt Chamberlain, who was working out with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yet everyone here literally calls it impossible that the equal mass 327lb Chamberlain composed of nothing but solid muscle can't bench 15lbs more than a flabbier 327lb Shaq. Most likely, nobody has a clue just how big Wilt was. Now you have a clue.

[CavaliersFTW]

I know guys who benched 500+ pounds, and no they don't look like the pictures of arnold or others you've posted because they're POWERLIFTERS, not BODYBUILDERS.

A mountain lion is relatively small. regardless whether it did or did not happen I do think it could have happened. A mountain lion can be beat down by one very physical person. it weighs like 250 pounds, if Wilt DID benchpress 500 pounds, then he would have had no problem throwing a mountain lion by its tail, in fact he WAS a shot-putter in college.

so yeah... every single post that I've seen you make just shows an underlying lack of understanding of sports and athletics, and this thread is no exception.

In warm climates male mountain lions would practically never exceed 160lbs, in fact, they only average 137... Female mountain lions are even smaller, again - in warm climates they will typically be as small as 65lbs - 100lbs, and they average only 93lbs. Even in cold climates it is rare for any mountain lion to weigh more than 190lbs.





I'm not saying the story is true. I'm just trying to prevent misinformation from being spread.

[Whoah10115]

Um.. no, let's use him as an example because he was exactly 327 during the '00-'01 season which is the year of the picture I selected. Which also coincides with when he was benching 450lbs. He is scaled 1:1 next to the 48 year old 327lb Wilt Chamberlain, who was working out with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yet everyone here literally calls it impossible that the equal mass 327lb Chamberlain composed of nothing but solid muscle can't bench 15lbs more than a flabbier 327lb Shaq. Most likely, nobody has a clue just how big Wilt was. Now you have a clue.


I'm willing to bet lots of other people's testicles that Shaq was at 327 the way a boxer is at his real weight during the weigh-in.



I think Shaq is clearly the strongest player who's ever played. But I'm not here to argue that. I'm only here to call the OP a lame-ass and to say Shaq was not 327. I'll stick with that. I won't even respect documentation. Shaq is unnecessarily big and I'll stick with that until death.



And do not rationalize killing a mountain lion. That never happened. You're just giving ammo to an idiot.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm willing to bet lots of other people's testicles that Shaq was at 327 the way a boxer is at his real weight during the weigh-in.



I think Shaq is clearly the strongest player who's ever played. But I'm not here to argue that. I'm only here to call the OP a lame-ass and to say Shaq was not 327. I'll stick with that. I won't even respect documentation. Shaq is unnecessarily big and I'll stick with that until death.

You'll be castrating a lot of people then. Yes he was 327 in the picture I provided - which is the only relevant picture/weight to be doing this comparison because that's when he was allegedly benching 450lbs. Does he look any bigger than 327lbs in that image seeing as how he's standing next to another 327lb guy? (that picture is from Conan the Destroyer - when Wilt was weighed in to be 327).

The 327lbs data for Shaq all originates from a weigh-in during the '00-'01 training camp, and he was said to be out of shape even at that weight.

Shaq was a 303lb rookie for the '93-'94 season. It's draft data.

The fat veteran Shaq was 350lbs - this information comes from his "Shaq Vs" episode when has fitness measurements taken for the Roethlesburger episode.

Do you think NBA weights always stay the same!? Of course "327lbs" untrue if we're talking about the late '00's FAT Shaq, but at the start of the new millennium Shaq was 327lbs it isn't difficult to understand nor should it really even be up for debate. You don't go to bed one night at 303lbs and then wake up 350 the next morning.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r8Jra4iv334/T2aaFy76TmI/AAAAAAAADPs/CS9mtSJGG_c/s800/Shaq%2520Wilt%2520Scale.jpg

You are free to believe Shaq is the strongest basketball player that ever lived. But any fat guy can be immovable in the post, and I'm sure he's incredibly strong. But personally, I think Wilt was stronger. Is it so ridiculous to believe? Really? Side by side reveals the telling difference in their physique.

[iamgine]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by a solid margin.) He was voted first team all-defense (in a league with Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, Cowens, and Kareem.) He shot .727 from the floor, which is an all-time record. In the playoffs, he played in 17 post-season games, taking his 60-22 Lakers to their FOURTH Finals in his FIVE years in LA. And, he played 47.1 mpg in those 17 games. AND, he averaged 22.5 rpg in those 17 games. Now, think about this...THAT was the LAST time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In FACT, the next highest post-season, since, was Kareem's 17.3 rpg, in his 11 post-season games in the 76-77 season.

And, BTW, Wilt faced Kareem in SIX regular season H2H's in Wilt's LAST season. He outshot Kareem in those H2H's, by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. THIS, from a 36 (nearly 37) year old Wilt, and in his LAST post-season. Then, while Kareem led his 60-22 Bucks down in flames in the first round of the playoffs against Nate Thurmond's 47-35 Warriors, in a series in which Kareem shot .428 from the floor...Wilt LED HIS 60-22 Lakers to a 4-1 blowout over Nate's Warriors in the very next round, in a series in which he outrebounded Nate, per game, 23.6 to 17.2, and outshot him, .550 to .398.


THAT was a Chamberlain in his LAST NBA season. Now, go back to a PRIME Wilt, in the mid-60's. For instance, in his 65-66 season, Chamberlain LED the NBA in scoring, and by a solid margin, at 33.5 ppg. He LED the NBA in rebounding, and by a solid margin, at 24.6 rpg. He set a then-record in FG% (which he shattered the very next season) at .540 (in a league that shot .433 overall.) He even took the time to hand out 5.2 apg. Oh, and BTW, he LED his TEAM to the BEST RECORD in the league.

Not only all of the above, but he DESTROYED the league's BEST centers in that season. He outscored 6-11 HOF center, in their ten regular season H2H's, 8-1-1, and by a 33 ppg to 24 ppg margin. Included in those games were games in which he wiped out Bellamy by margins of 37-22, 38-23, 34-19, and 50-26.

Wilt faced 6-11 HOF center in nine H2H meetings in that 65-66 season. He outscored him 8-1. Included in those H2H's were games in which Wilt outscored Thurmond by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 26-9, 38-15, and even a monster 45-13 margin.

And Chamberlain faced the 6-10 HOFer Russell in a total of 14 H2H games, nine in the regular season, and five in the playoffs. In those 14 games, Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 28.2 ppg to 12.5 ppg. And, in those 14 games, Wilt enjoyed a 13-1 scoring edge. Chamberlain also outrebounded Russell in those 14 games, by a 10-4 margin. And in the process, he averaged 30.5 rpg to Russell's 24.0 rpg.

And how about these games that Wilt POUNDED Russell with that season...He had games where he outscored Russell by margins of 27-6, 29-3, 30-5, 28-13, 31-11, 32-8, 31-11, and in the clinching game five of the '66 ECF's, he outscored Russell, 46-18. How about his rebounding margins against Russell that season? He had margins of 30-10, 40-17, 36-20, 32-18, 30-20, and 42-25.

THAT was a PRIME "scoring" Wilt, who just OBLITERATED the NBA that season.

Of course, that was not the only season, either. Against Russell in the 66-67 season, Chamberlain not only led his 68-13 Sixers to a 4-1 rout of Russell's 60-21 Celtics in the ECF's, he did so by outscoring him, per game, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg; by outassisting Russell, per game, in that series, 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg; by outrebounding Russell in that series, 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg; and by outshooting Russell from the floor in that series, .556 to .358. BTW, in the Finals that season, he outscored and outrebounded Thurmond, in five of their six H2H's, and outshot him from the floor in that series, .560 to .343.

Or that in the 64-65 season, Wilt faced HOFer Willis Reed in nine regular season H2H's, and outscored him, per game, by a 40.1 ppg to 24.8 ppg. He held an 8-1 edge in scoring batles that year against Reed, including games in which the margins were by 37-22, 41-8, 52-23, and 58-28.

Or that Wilt had entire seasons, against Russell, of 39.7 ppg and 38.1 ppg (outscoring Russell in those nine games that year by a 38.1 ppg to 14.0 margin.) Or that Chamberlain held a 24-0 edge in 40+ point games against Russell, including FIVE of 50+, and even one game in which he outscored Russell by a 62-23 margin (on 27-45 shooting.) Or that Wilt held a 132-10 margin in scoring H2H's against Russell. Or that Chamberlain held a 92-42-8 rebounding margin in those 142 H2H's, including MANY in which he just buried Russell (e.g., one game by a 55-19 margin.) Or that Wilt had FOUR post-seasons against Russell of 30+ ppg, and two more of 28.0 ppg and 29.2 ppg. In one of those post-season H2H's, Chamberlain put up a seven game series of 30 ppg and 31 rpg against Russell.

And Chamberlain absolutely CRUSHED Bellamy in their H2H's. In a span of 20 straight games, covering the '62 and '63 seasons, Chamberlain averaged 47 ppg against Bellamy (43.7 ppg in '63, and a mind-boggling 52.7 ppg in '62.) Included in those H2H's were THREE games of 60+, and a HIGH game of 73 points (and with 36 rebounds.)

Now, if a PRIME Chamberlain could CARPET BOMB those HOF centers, just what in the hell would he have done in the 90's???
Well in those days, even what today would be a below average player can make the HOF. Lets not act like all the HOFers back in the 40s-60s are any good.