For Us That Are Older Than 35 Years Old, We KNOW Michael Jordan Is The GOAT

[Bless Mathews]

Its not even close.

Kobe could win 8 chips, he still will never hold a candle to mj's pure Magic (no pun intended) and invincibility... How he willed his teams to chips with PURE determination and drive..

No one is even in the same solar system.. all these "GOAT" THREADS need to stop immediately...

No one is the best at his/her profession than mj.

Stop it.

[The Choken One]

I just think it's funny...if you were to switch the two...Kobe would be GOAT.

But MJ came first, so even I'll admit he's GOAT.

[dunksby]

I am 26 and I know Kareem is the Greatest.

[Punpun]

I just think it's funny...if you were to switch the two...Kobe would be GOAT.

But MJ came first, so even I'll admit he's GOAT.

I have too. Afterall Luck is important too. Hence why Russel and Wilt aren't nowhere near the top 5 all times. Because they lacked the luck to be born in a better era. Kobe being top 5 all-time is good enough anyways.

[Tmuston Beltics]

I am 23 and I know LeBron James is clutch.

[BlueandGold]

I just think it's funny...if you were to switch the two...Kobe would be GOAT.

But MJ came first, so even I'll admit he's GOAT.
Like switch as in have Kobe play before MJ? Actually a better version of Kobe did, Magic, and MJ is still considered better than those two, and it's no debate.

And also even if Kobe did play before MJ, MJ's resume alone would still be x10 better.

Ever see those the Kobe and MJ troll mega-post copy/paste resumes side by side? Even if all the kobe-trolls were to fluff up Kobe's resume by x3 it still wouldn't compare to MJ's.

[keepinitreal]

I just think it's funny...if you were to switch the two...Kobe would be GOAT.

But MJ came first, so even I'll admit he's GOAT.

switch the two like switch teams and put MJ with prime Shaq for potentially 7 or 8 years?:milton

[DMV2]

I am 26 and I know Kareem is the Greatest.
How come he only won one championship during his 5 MVP runs? And wasn't the 70's supposed to be a weak era. He should have gotten at least 3 titles during that run.

[LosBulls]

No, you don't KNOW, your Nostalgia won't let you move on.:hammerhead:

[FKAri]

Its not even close.

Kobe could win 8 chips, he still will never hold a candle to mj's pure Magic (no pun intended) and invincibility... How he willed his teams to chips with PURE determination and drive..

No one is even in the same solar system.. all these "GOAT" THREADS need to stop immediately...

No one is the best at his/her profession than mj.

Stop it.

That's the bs I hate whenever MJ is brought up. He's probably the greatest AND best basketball player to ever play but to make it that he and only he had these "special" abilities that no one else had is sports fans psychological fallacy.

[The Choken One]

Like switch as in have Kobe play before MJ? Actually a better version of Kobe did, Magic, and MJ is still considered better than those two, and it's no debate.

And also even if Kobe did play before MJ, MJ's resume alone would still be x10 better.
I was referring to them actually switching. If Kobe played on the Bulls they would have won the exact same championships, and I honestly believe even more because there's no way in hell Kobe retires to fhcking play baseball.

MJ may have gotten along with Shaq better than Kobe, and that could of resulted in more ships for MJ given Kobe's opportunities...but we really don't know.

EDIT: And I do believe MJ was the better player, don't get me wrong. I'm just throwing out a potential scenario that I think is interesting. Because if this was true...we'd probably be saying the exact same things, with the names switched... just saying.

[DaHeezy]

First off, is this a Jordan GOAT thread or an anti-Kobe thread? There is an agenda behind this.

Second, I'm 35 and I don't agree Jordan is GOAT. Team sports is subjective and there can be no definative answer. I hate when people call no contest.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

For us that post on ISH, we KNOW OP is a ph@ggot

[rodman91]

I think GOAT isn't even arguable. Who is second best though?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

for those of us Older than 40 years old, we KNOW there is no such thing as GOAT. At best, there is GOAT-by-position. In which case, yes, MJ is the GOAT SG.

[DMV2]

I was referring to them actually switching. If Kobe played on the Bulls they would have won the exact same championships, and I honestly believe even more because there's no way in hell Kobe retires to fhcking play baseball.

MJ may have gotten along with Shaq better than Kobe, and that could of resulted in more ships for MJ given Kobe's opportunities...but we really don't know.
And how do you know that Kobe could have averaged 30 PPG with the 90's Bulls? Two three-peats, 72-10 record. Take down the giants(decade of centers) of the 90's.

[westsideozzie]

Michael Jordan was so much better than Kobe it's not even funny. The thing that separates Mike from Kobe is that Kobe is a punk. How many times has Kobe been beat up in his NBA career? Dudes were afraid of Michael Jordan, and wanted no parts of guarding him. Cats like Ron Artest, Chris Childs, Matt Barnes, would never step to Mike like they did Kobe.

Kobe bit Mike's whole swag, mannerisms, and post game. Can you imagine Mike Jordan with no hand check rules...

[Faptastrophe]

Its not even close.

Kobe could win 8 chips, he still will never hold a candle to mj's pure Magic (no pun intended) and invincibility... How he willed his teams to chips with PURE determination and drive..

No one is even in the same solar system.. all these "GOAT" THREADS need to stop immediately...

No one is the best at his/her profession than mj.

Stop it.
The funny part is.. Kobe isn't and won't be higher than top 6 all-time (Now he's arguably 9th), but the stans are arguing about him being the best ever. Please.. :kobe:

[ihatetimthomas]

I think what sets MJ apart is his clutch performances in the playoffs and finals. He truly elevated his game to an even higher peak during games where they had the most importance. This is what will set MJ apart from the rest because you cant forget those times where he turned it on when the game was on the line.

But I will say to say no one is even near his level is really a ridiculous statement. I say MJ is the best, but there are other players who were elite and are on the same plane as MJ. Kind of crazy to say no one is even in the same orbit as him.

[ChrisPosh]

For us that are younger than 22, we KNOW Lebron James is the GOAT

Only just turned 27, we will begin to see threepeats. Book it

[madmax]

I've watched most of the 90's basketball and Jordan is one of the most overrated superstars of all time - his impact on the game was not as big as stats would suggest and refs tended to suck his schlong too whenever the going got tough. Oh, and he won his last ring in a controversial fashion, with Jazz being promptly raped by the refs in the last game:cheers:

[DMV2]

I think what sets MJ apart is his clutch performances in the playoffs and finals. He truly elevated his game to an even higher peak during games where they had the most importance. This is what will set MJ apart from the rest because you cant forget those times where he turned it on when the game was on the line.

But I will say to say no one is even near his level is really a ridiculous statement. I say MJ is the best, but there are other players who were elite and are on the same plane as MJ. Kind of crazy to say no one is even in the same orbit as him.
LeBron had a chance until he got exposed as a choke artist and a quitter.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

No possible way the OP is older than 35.

[rodman91]

I've watched most of the 90's basketball and Jordan is one of the most overrated superstars of all time - his impact on the game was not as big as stats would suggest and refs tended to suck his schlong too whenever the going got tough. Oh, and he won his last ring in a controversial fashion, with Jazz being promptly raped by the refs in the last game:cheers:

And if Lebron was on that Bulls team, he would pass it to Longley to make the game winner.

:cheers:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

And if Lebron was on that Bulls team, he would pass it to Longley to make the game winner.

:cheers:
lol:lol

[ihatetimthomas]

LeBron had a chance until he got exposed as a choke artist and a quitter.

Given LBJ's physical attributes...yeah I would say he did have the potential. But so much more goes into it than just natural ability. Lebron is one of the most unique players to ever play the game...but I think that is all that we will remember of him when he retires.

[bagelred]

I just think it's funny...if you were to switch the two...Kobe would be GOAT.

But MJ came first, so even I'll admit he's GOAT.

Spoken like someone who didn't see MJ play.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Lebron will win Championship(s) and prolly at least one Finals MVP.
Everybody will then have him in the discussion of greatest SF.
Its set up for him very nicely:
1. Celtics are old and tired.
2. Orlando simply does not have enuf.
3. Chicago MIGHT give them a run.
4. Lakers are also old...Kobe at 33 years old just ain't his old self.
5. Dallas? meh.
6. OKC? too inexperienced at the highest level, but are a danger.
Frankly, I'm shocked that Miami has the 3rd best record.
Lebron will get his.

[Bless Mathews]

For us that post on ISH, we KNOW OP is a ph@ggot



I was typing about basketball. And you bring up homo sexuality... That speaks volumes about whats on your mind idiot...




My point was how tenacious and confident mj was. No doubt he was gonna pull through... No body has CLOSE to that, and how FUNKY he did it. No one is even clise

[Maestro33]

Second, I'm 35 and I don't agree Jordan is GOAT. Team sports is subjective and there can be no definative answer. I hate when people call no contest.

You're 35 but yer Avatar is a WWF wrestler so Im sorry your point is invalid:)

[upside24]

For us that post on ISH, we KNOW OP is a ph@ggot
You sir have won. Congratulations.

[lpublic_enemyl]

LOL MJ is the goat and kobe isn't even the laker goat Magic is:bowdown:

[Mr. Incredible]

I'm not over 35 years old. But I know MJ is the GOAT. :bowdown:

[KingBeasley08]

I'm not over 35 years old. But I know MJ is the GOAT. :bowdown:
this :applause:

His Airness :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[G-train]

Yep MJ is simply the best player ever.
Check out some of his mid/late 80's stuff before he relaxed a bit. Incredible.

[Kews1]

Ahhh with such age comes such wisdom that us young ones have not :bowdown:

[La Frescobaldi]

Sorry but I saw Chamberlain from the stands. Wilt > Jordan.

And I don't know if they are BETTER? But I'd MUCH rather have Kareem or Bird or Magic than Jordan. Better team players, & better teammates.

[Replay32]

for those of us Older than 40 years old, we KNOW there is no such thing as GOAT. At best, there is GOAT-by-position. In which case, yes, MJ is the GOAT SG.

This!!!!

There is no such thing as 1 GOAT in a team sport. MJ never scored all his team's points, got all his team's rebounds, blocked all the opposing teams shots, ect...

MJ didn't couldn't guard 5 players on the court at the same time.

Jordan, just like every other great player need the help of their teammates to win games/championships.

[SpecialQue]

These threads are always retarded, never offer anything insightful, and need to be locked and the OP banned.

Kareem = GOAT, btw.

[Dbrog]

Its not even close.

Kobe could win 8 chips, he still will never hold a candle to mj's pure Magic (no pun intended) and invincibility... How he willed his teams to chips with PURE determination and drive..

No one is even in the same solar system.. all these "GOAT" THREADS need to stop immediately...

No one is the best at his/her profession than mj.

Stop it.

Dude if Kobe 3-peated right now while leading the team (unlikely with Bynum's emergence though), I don't see how anyone could justify Jordan over him. Lay off the nostalgia-juice.

[jbryan1984]

I'm 27 and know it. If you were my age, you were basically taught that growing up. It was like you might not watch wrestling or boxing, but you knew Hulk Hogan and Mike Tyson dominated at that time. Same with Jordan.

[Owl]

Sorry but I saw Chamberlain from the stands. Wilt > Jordan.

And I don't know if they are BETTER? But I'd MUCH rather have Kareem or Bird or Magic than Jordan. Better team players, & better teammates.
Interesting. I respect your post and you seem to be knowledgeable on B-Ball history, but on this I would have to disagree.

There are things for which Chamberlain is unfairly criticized (50 point season as selfish shot-jacking, characterisation as anti-clutch). But given your apparent proclivity for favouring being a good teammate etc Wilt seems an odd choice as the best. Wilt aknowledges in his autobiog that during the 76ers title season he was making it known to other teams owners that he was available. Wilt seemed perpetually to need the glory, reluctant to reduce his ppg (he did so but he grumbled) and wasn't always a unifying force in the locker room.

Bird and Magic versus Jordan seems superior in statistics, achievements (awards and for what it's worth titles) and was by a large distance the best defender (MJ probably the greatest defensive SG, Bird and Magic maybe smart team defenders but unathletic and average defenders) and Larry and Magic are better at being good teammates. I'm not sure that balances out (not that I'm certain that Magic and Bird were such great guys anyways). I think it's very tough to make the argument that either is better than (or even the equal of) Jordan unless you think the standard of the NBA was massively watered down in the 90's but even then MJ's most impressive numbers came in the 80's so ...

With Kareem it's harder to argue (he has the titles, the numbers-though not to my mind as impressive as MJ's, the awards). He does have longevity over MJ too. Both probably should have had more MVP's too but for people didn't want to keep giving it to them. Still I'd take Jordan. Harder to explain/justify but the off the top of my head Cliff Notes version is
-Better stats (difficult to compare across eras and positions but I feel MJ's are more impressive)
-MJ was always clearly the best player on, well I was going to say his title winners, but on every team he played on. Kareem wasn't. Part of that is playing so long but still. Perhaps it's better explained as apart from at Washington MJ was always a very legit candidate for MVP, that wasn't true for almost a decade for Jabbar).
-MJ's titles came with a lesser supporting cast

[Round Mound]

There is a reason why MJ has the Highest PER Ever For get the Rings just go By Broken Down Efficiency. He is the Best Ever.

I hated MJ but i have to admit to his greatness

Kobe only thing better than MJ was Far Range Shooting and if That

MJ`s Athletcism to go 1 on 1 on a 1st Step, Run the Court and Finish Himself etc was just Ridiculous.

He was 6`4 3/4 but as quick as a 5`10 dude and as strong as many SFs.

His Potence, Leaping Ability and Agility where Off the Charts.

Best Pure Finishing Penetrator Ever too.

[swi7ch]

Of course he is.

Kobe quit on his team against the Suns in the 06 playoffs. His team was up 3-1 and the Suns came back. In that last game, he had like 28 pts in the first half and only ONE ATTEMPT in the second half. He just gave up on his team because there was no point in trying. He realized his team was not good enough so there was no point in trying to advance in the playoffs.

He also quit in game 7 of the finals against BOS.

Jordan has never quit on his team and this is why he will forever be superior to Kobe. A true GOAT should not have a history of quitting on his team.

/end of discussion

[CelticBaller]

For us that are younger than 22, we KNOW Lebron James is the GOAT

Only just turned 27, we will begin to see threepeats. Book it
:biggums:

[nathanjizzle]

it sucks to be old.

[LockoutOver11]

35?... being born in the mid to late 80's is enough... and if your from the east coast doesnt matter if your born in the 90's or 00's... you know MJ is basketball....

[rodman91]

If you believe Kobe will get 4 FMVPs, 4 MVPs,DPOY,8 scoring titles and many more accomplishments in rest of his career.. then we have discussion about Jordan or Kobe for GOAT.

[Shih508]

When kobe retires, his whole career is gonna be defined as not even the best player of his own team for majority of his career (97-04 & 12-his retirement), let alone of being the GOAT in NBA history

Kobe fans are funny.......

[The Iron Fist]

Of course he is.

Kobe quit on his team against the Suns in the 06 playoffs. His team was up 3-1 and the Suns came back. In that last game, he had like 28 pts in the first half and only ONE ATTEMPT in the second half. He just gave up on his team because there was no point in trying. He realized his team was not good enough so there was no point in trying to advance in the playoffs.

He also quit in game 7 of the finals against BOS.

Jordan has never quit on his team and this is why he will forever be superior to Kobe. A true GOAT should not have a history of quitting on his team.

/end of discussion


I guess you missed those years when he "retired".

He quit because he seen a challenge coming up in Houston and then he quit again when he saw he wouldn't have Pippen and Jackson.

[Bless Mathews]

Of course he is.

Kobe quit on his team against the Suns in the 06 playoffs. His team was up 3-1 and the Suns came back. In that last game, he had like 28 pts in the first half and only ONE ATTEMPT in the second half. He just gave up on his team because there was no point in trying. He realized his team was not good enough so there was no point in trying to advance in the playoffs.

He also quit in game 7 of the finals against BOS.

Jordan has never quit on his team and this is why he will forever be superior to Kobe. A true GOAT should not have a history of quitting on his team.

/end of discussion

Word.

And again a lot of people are missing my point, if you were old enough to WATCH magic, bird, Jordan, and now Kobe, mj was.just godlike. On a whole nother level of funkiness, determination, will, and pure fire. All the old goat contenders from earlier eras just mosied up and don't the court in their low top chucks worried about what bitches they were gonna f.u.c.k after. Not concerned about winning.


After a while, you knew there was NO WAY he was gonna loose, and didn't. You cant type that about anyone else.

[SacJB Shady]

No doubt that Jordan is the GOAT. I don't think anyone will catch him. But if I think Lin works hard, he can be comparable.

[Nevaeh]

I guess you missed those years when he "retired".

He quit because he seen a challenge coming up in Houston and then he quit again when he saw he wouldn't have Pippen and Jackson.

Well, each time he "quit", at least he was nice enough to leave his teammates with 3 sets of rings, and not "chuck" them out of any.

[305Baller]

Its not even close.

Kobe could win 8 chips, he still will never hold a candle to mj's pure Magic (no pun intended) and invincibility... How he willed his teams to chips with PURE determination and drive..

No one is even in the same solar system.. all these "GOAT" THREADS need to stop immediately...

No one is the best at his/her profession than mj.

Stop it.

Co-Signed.

:coleman:

[305Baller]

No doubt that Jordan is the GOAT. I don't think anyone will catch him. But if I think Lin works hard, he can be comparable.

:D

[CelticBaller]

No doubt that Jordan is the GOAT. I don't think anyone will catch him. But if I think Lin works hard, he can be comparable.
:oldlol:

[Cali Syndicate]

I guess you missed those years when he "retired".

He quit because he seen a challenge coming up in Houston and then he quit again when he saw he wouldn't have Pippen and Jackson.

Retiring because of physical and mental exhaustion (basketball, media, father's death) and quitting to prove a point (let alone during an entire 2nd half of a game 7) is completely different. Sorry it just is.

And if Jordan quit of Chicago after 98 because Phil and Scottie didn't return, guess both Pippen and Phil quit on Chicago too.

[Bless Mathews]

First off, is this a Jordan GOAT thread or an anti-Kobe thread? There is an agenda behind this.

Second, I'm 35 and I don't agree Jordan is GOAT. Team sports is subjective and there can be no definative answer. I hate when people call no contest.


Its Jordan goat thread. I just used Kobe, because he is in talk s of the goat ...

Come on Bro. Comeon. Jordan willed his TEAM to victory.. all him.... Comeon Bro. It's not even close.

Don't make me go jimmy superfly snooka on Yo ass!!!! Off the top ring.

It should be in wikipedia "he/she is the Michael Jordan of (whatever topic/skill) " when describing the goat in said field/topic.

[Bless Mathews]

Oh yea, and comeon, if he didnt retire, 8 in a row....

[f0und]

I was referring to them actually switching. If Kobe played on the Bulls they would have won the exact same championships, and I honestly believe even more because there's no way in hell Kobe retires to fhcking play baseball.

MJ may have gotten along with Shaq better than Kobe, and that could of resulted in more ships for MJ given Kobe's opportunities...but we really don't know.

EDIT: And I do believe MJ was the better player, don't get me wrong. I'm just throwing out a potential scenario that I think is interesting. Because if this was true...we'd probably be saying the exact same things, with the names switched... just saying.


This post just reeks of kobe fanboyism. Swith places and things would remain the same? Rhats just stupid.

Mj has the best regulae season avg. He turns up his game even more in the playoffs and has the highest playoff avg. In the finals, he turns up his game EVEN MORE, having the highest playoff avg and is considered the greatest finals performer ever.

Kobe on the other hand isnt the greatest regular season player. His game regresses in the playoffs. His game regresses EVEN MORE in the finals and is considered a terrible finals performer.

We dont even have to get into the 100 mile gap between their miscellaneous stats, awards, accolades, etc.

This huge contrast has nothing to do with their situations. Jirdan was just simply that much better, period.

[DJ Leon Smith]

I guess you missed those years when he "retired".

I agree.

This also settles the Kobe vs Bird argument. I mean, how bad has Bird quit on the Celtics this season? He's a total non-factor on the court.

[Flamboyant]

Its Jordan goat thread. I just used Kobe, because he is in talk s of the goat ...

Come on Bro. Comeon. Jordan willed his TEAM to victory.. all him.... Comeon Bro. It's not even close.

Don't make me go jimmy superfly snooka on Yo ass!!!! Off the top ring.

It should be in wikipedia "he/she is the Michael Jordan of (whatever topic/skill) " when describing the goat in said field/topic.

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!

[rodman91]

"By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. Although, a summary of his basketball career and influence on the game inevitably fails to do it justice, as a phenomenal athlete with a unique combination of fundamental soundness, grace, speed, power, artistry, improvisational ability and an unquenchable competitive desire, Jordan single-handedly redefined the NBA superstar.

Even contemporaneous superstars recognized the unparalleled position of Jordan. Magic Johnson said, "There's Michael Jordan and then there is the rest of us." Larry Bird, following a playoff game where Jordan dropped 63 points on the Boston Celtics in just his second season, appraisal of the young player was: "God disguised as Michael Jordan. "

Source: NBA.com

:lol

[CelticBaller]

"By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. Although, a summary of his basketball career and influence on the game inevitably fails to do it justice, as a phenomenal athlete with a unique combination of fundamental soundness, grace, speed, power, artistry, improvisational ability and an unquenchable competitive desire, Jordan single-handedly redefined the NBA superstar.

Even contemporaneous superstars recognized the unparalleled position of Jordan. Magic Johnson said, "There's Michael Jordan and then there is the rest of us." Larry Bird, following a playoff game where Jordan dropped 63 points on the Boston Celtics in just his second season, appraisal of the young player was: "God disguised as Michael Jordan. "

Source: NBA.com

:lol
and jordan is disguised as lin

http://mkandinata.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/jeremy-lin-michael-jordan2a.jpg

[madmax]

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!

:applause:

[Round Mound]

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!

Im a round that age and my favorite players where Bird, Magic and Charles. I hated Jordan mainly because of the Media. But...I have to Admit he is the Greatest Player Ever. He was the Whole Package as a Total Complete Player

I have Zero Nostalgia on MJ. I hated him

[EricForman]

i'm only 29 and i know Jordan is GOAT. please.

[RRR3]

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!
Who's better than MJ then?

[lebeast666]

I'm 41 years old and believe LeBron is the goat

[Legends66NBA7]

Who's better than MJ then?

The only cases are Russell, Wilt, and Kareem.

But Jordan would still have the best case out of the 4.

[Ne 1]

I'm 86 year old man who has seen Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Erving, Bird, Magic, Shaq and many other greats who were better than Jordan.

I can honestly say that Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are better than Jordan. Also Kevin Durant, prime Tracy McGrady and prime Vince Carter are on Jordan's level.

[Legends66NBA7]

I think GOAT isn't even arguable. Who is second best though?

If Jordan is GOAT... second best goes to Russell, Wilt, or Kareem.

[Ne 1]

Larry Bird, following a playoff game where Jordan dropped 63 points on the Boston Celtics in just his second season, appraisal of the young player was: "God disguised as Michael Jordan. "


True story about Larry Bird. Nike did a commercial with a number of NBA Superstars singing "I wanna be like Mike". They asked Bird to participate and he refused. He said he didn't want to be like Mike because he didn't regard Michael Jordan as his superior.

I only know of Bird calling one player the "greatest ever", and that was Wilt Chamberlain. Larry did however call Jordan the best player he's played against because a) Kareem was old by then, b) Larry Bird can't play himself and c) he resented Magic at the time he made that statement.

Also lets put the 63 point game (double overtime; 54 in regulation) into context for the Space Jam generation- Jordan had just scored 49 points on the Celtics a couple days earlier and the Bulls got crushed. The Celtics attitude was that one player was not going to beat their team, especially at home, where they had only lost 1 time all year.

So they LET Jordan have his points that game and it almost cost them the game.

Jordan missed a wide open 15 footer with 3 seconds in the first overtime, that most likely would have won the game.

After that close call, Boston put the clamps down on Jordan in game 3, holding him to 18 points (only 5 in the final 3 quarters) before he fouled out.

Calling Jordan "God" was a total psyche job on Bird's part. He got Jordan believing that he could beat the Celtics by himself. The result was a 3 game sweep for the Celtics in '86 (even with Jordan's 63 point 2OT game), and a 3 game sweep for the Celtics in '87. Bird simply goaded Jordan into trying to win the series by himself, and that played right into Boston's hands. So yes, Bird jokingly referred to him as God in reference to one game. Like I said, he was probably buttering him up before sending him home on an early vacation.

[Bless Mathews]

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!



Won two less what??+ regular season games??? Your a moron. Dont type to me.

I'm 37 bout to be 38.

You sound mad. you ok Bro?

[Bless Mathews]

I'm 41 years old and believe LeBron is the goat


A 41 year old crack smoker, yea.

[Ne 1]

Jordan willed his TEAM to victory.. all him....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK8sxngSWaU

[Da_Realist]

I'm 35 now. I had just passed 9th grade when MJ won his first title. I remember being one of the very few Bulls fans growing up while everyone in school were bandwagon Pistons fans. MJ is the best player I have seen. I actually appreciate what he brought to the game even more 20+ years later than I did then because I know more about the game now.

Here are some things I remember from around that time.

-- I missed MJ's series clinching shot against the Cavs in 89 because my mom made me go to church for the second time that day. I still haven't forgiven her.

-- There was a time when I really didn't think the Bulls could beat the Pistons

-- I secretly wanted the Pistons to beat the Trailblazers in 1990 in less than 7 games because I wanted to brag about how the Bulls were the SECOND best team in the league!

-- Winning Game 4 against the Pistons in 1991 felt sweeter than winning the title

-- I knew Olajuwon was better than Ewing and Robinson before the media jumped all over it and I hated that they didn't show many Rockets games nationally

-- I considered Magic Johnson the 2nd best player that I saw after MJ, but I switched him with Bird as I started watching more Celtics games years later.

-- I thought the Bulls were toast after losing the first two games to the Knicks in 1993.

-- I thought that Starks dunk was overrated

-- 1992 Game 7 vs Knicks -- I don't think I've seen MJ play a better game

-- 1993 Game 5 vs Knicks -- Was and still is my favorite Bulls game to watch

[wakencdukest]

Michael Jordan was so much better than Kobe it's not even funny. The thing that separates Mike from Kobe is that Kobe is a punk. How many times has Kobe been beat up in his NBA career? Dudes were afraid of Michael Jordan, and wanted no parts of guarding him. Cats like Ron Artest, Chris Childs, Matt Barnes, would never step to Mike like they did Kobe.

Kobe bit Mike's whole swag, mannerisms, and post game. Can you imagine Mike Jordan with no hand check rules...

Not defending Kobe here, but you are trippin if you think Michael was some kind of tough guy that everyone was scared of. I guess you forgot the time Artest broke two of Jordans ribs in a pick up game. Give me a break, the only thing people were afraid of was that he would score 60 against them.

[Round Mound]

I'm 35 now. I had just passed 9th grade when MJ won his first title. I remember being one of the very few Bulls fans growing up while everyone in school were bandwagon Pistons fans. MJ is the best player I have seen. I actually appreciate what he brought to the game even more 20+ years later than I did then because I know more about the game now.

Here are some things I remember from around that time.

-- I missed MJ's series clinching shot against the Cavs in 89 because my mom made me go to church for the second time that day. I still haven't forgiven her.

-- There was a time when I really didn't think the Bulls could beat the Pistons

-- I secretly wanted the Pistons to beat the Trailblazers in 1990 in less than 7 games because I wanted to brag about how the Bulls were the SECOND best team in the league!

-- Winning Game 4 against the Pistons in 1991 felt sweeter than winning the title

-- I knew Olajuwon was better than Ewing and Robinson before the media jumped all over it and I hated that they didn't show many Rockets games nationally

-- I considered Magic Johnson the 2nd best player that I saw after MJ, but I switched him with Bird as I started watching more Celtics games years later.

-- I thought the Bulls were toast after losing the first two games to the Knicks in 1993.

-- I thought that Starks dunk was overrated

-- 1992 Game 7 vs Knicks -- I don't think I've seen MJ play a better game

-- 1993 Game 5 vs Knicks -- Was and still is my favorite Bulls game to watch

Same for me. I told my friends 2 things : in 1992 Barkley was going to take the Suns to the Finals. They did not believe me ofcourse but it happened. Then in 1995 i told everyone Hakeem would destroy Robinson in the Play-Offs. Why? Robinson IS WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE SOFT. Hakeem took it to a personal level. Since he was the 2nd or 3rd Best Player in the League after MJ and Charles in the early 90s and Late 80s

[MavsPoke]

I'm 42 and the OP is right.

[Nevaeh]

True story about Larry Bird. Nike did a commercial with a number of NBA Superstars singing "I wanna be like Mike". They asked Bird to participate and he refused. He said he didn't want to be like Mike because he didn't regard Michael Jordan as his superior.

I only know of Bird calling one player the "greatest ever", and that was Wilt Chamberlain. Larry did however call Jordan the best player he's played against because a) Kareem was old by then, b) Larry Bird can't play himself and c) he resented Magic at the time he made that statement.



Wow, that must have been your "God's" favorite song back in the day :oldlol:
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg
http://jumpman23.ch/joc_11r_kb_01.jpg
http://jumpman23.ch/joc_11r_kb_02.jpg
http://jumpman23.ch/joc_12r_kb_02.jpg
http://www.upscalehype.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/6.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ISGQy1BRue0/TazWVUKLLEI/AAAAAAAAAuY/DcWT0QCLeHA/s1600/kobe-bryant-flint-air-jordan-xiii.png


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_m47ZDDq0r4A/TCBG2tTpJnI/AAAAAAAAAFY/f2Nel5vQHMs/s1600/kobe-in-mj-jersey.jpg


Good to see you back doing the "copy and paste" thang, after embarrassing the sh!t out of yourself last season.

:cheers:

[Bless Mathews]

^^^

[Jotaro Durant]

im 57 and i can tell u kareem abdul jabbar is clear the goat. mj is 2nd or 3rd competing with chamberlain.

[Rnbizzle]

If OP is really 35.. he has issues.

[AlphaWolf24]

Been following basketball since 82'..

Magic
MJ/Kobe
Bird
Duncan...


in that order.



Kobe and Mj are similar players in similar roles with nearly identical results...

Kobe is gonna play longer and win more....:confusedshrug:

toss up IMO

[SwooshReturns]

Kobe is gonna play longer and win more....
:biggums:

Jordan nixed 5 years of his playing career due to being bored with greatness, suspension, whatever ... ('94, '95, '99, 2000, 2001)

He was more durable than Kobe, never as frequently hurt. Didn't suffer a major crippling injury until he was 39. The broken foot in his 2nd season was recovered from very quickly.

MJ sat out two years of his absolute prime. This can't be overlooked.

If he played straight through from '85 - 2003?

You kidding me? Even with statistical regression he finished averaging 20 ppg on a bum knee as a 40 year old ... his career numbers dwarf everyone else.

Jordan gives you superior offense, and vastly superior defense. Not even an argument.

Kobe is battling it out with Wade all-time for the #2 spot among Shooting Guards.

[guy]

I'm 86 year old man who has seen Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Pettit, West, Wilt, Barry, Hondo, Oscar, Kareem, Walton, McAdoo, Erving, Bird, Magic, Shaq and many other greats who were better than Jordan.

I can honestly say that Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are better than Jordan. Also Kevin Durant, prime Tracy McGrady and prime Vince Carter are on Jordan's level.


:oldlol:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

:biggums:

Jordan nixed 5 years of his playing career due to being bored with greatness, suspension, whatever ... ('94, '95, '99, 2000, 2001)

He was more durable than Kobe, never as frequently hurt. Didn't suffer a major crippling injury until he was 39. The broken foot in his 2nd season was recovered from very quickly.

MJ sat out two years of his absolute prime. This can't be overlooked.

If he played straight through from '85 - 2003?

You kidding me? Even with statistical regression he finished averaging 20 ppg on a bum knee as a 40 year old ... his career numbers dwarf everyone else.

Jordan gives you superior offense, and vastly superior defense. Not even an argument.

Kobe is battling it out with Wade all-time for the #2 spot among Shooting Guards.
Actually, MJ gets no credit for sitting out a couple seasons, just like Bernard King does not get credit for injury, nor Bill Walton. It is what it is. He chose not to play, therefore he gets no credit. The body of work is the body of work.
i.e. when Kobe passes MJ on the all-time scoring list, there will be no asterix that says "but MJ sat out two seasons".

[AlphaWolf24]

:biggums:

Jordan nixed 5 years of his playing career due to being bored with greatness, suspension, whatever ... ('94, '95, '99, 2000, 2001)

He was more durable than Kobe, never as frequently hurt. Didn't suffer a major crippling injury until he was 39. The broken foot in his 2nd season was recovered from very quickly.

MJ sat out two years of his absolute prime. This can't be overlooked.

If he played straight through from '85 - 2003?

You kidding me? Even with statistical regression he finished averaging 20 ppg on a bum knee as a 40 year old ... his career numbers dwarf everyone else.

Jordan gives you superior offense, and vastly superior defense. Not even an argument.

Kobe is battling it out with Wade all-time for the #2 spot among Shooting Guards.


Wrong on nearly all accounts...


- Jordan quit basketball because he lost the love of the game....many great players won multiple Titles as a superstar and never "got bored"

even after winning in 1991' MJ said he was very close to retiring and thought about it greatly....Kobe is the greatest player of his generation and one of the greatest winners of alltime (as a superstar...I.E. Horry and Kerr were not premiere players:rolleyes: )....and still Kobe is not "bored"

MJ sat out 1 and a 1/2 years...he came back in 95' (you probably never watched MJ....so why I'm arguing is beyond me) and choked...remember?


- Not sure how MJ was more durable?...he came into the league at 21 years old and broke his foot....

His first 3 years he was swept in the first round....he quit for a year and was able to rest his legs playing AAA baseball...came back and choked....

added the greatest defensive player and rebounder of his generation (Rodman) and won 3 more Titles.....quit again and came back at the same age as Grant Hill and JKidd and had knee problems after Ballhogging on yet again a sub .500 team (just as his career started)

Kobe gives you better offense in a tougher defensive era....nearly equal defense....longer career with (most likely more championships) and much more asthetically pleasing game to watch.

[guy]

I was referring to them actually switching. If Kobe played on the Bulls they would have won the exact same championships, and I honestly believe even more because there's no way in hell Kobe retires to fhcking play baseball.

MJ may have gotten along with Shaq better than Kobe, and that could of resulted in more ships for MJ given Kobe's opportunities...but we really don't know.

EDIT: And I do believe MJ was the better player, don't get me wrong. I'm just throwing out a potential scenario that I think is interesting. Because if this was true...we'd probably be saying the exact same things, with the names switched... just saying.

So for the potential for MJ+Shaq "we don't really know", but you are so convinced that Kobe would've won more then 6 titles with the Bulls? :hammerhead:

There's no way Kobe would've won 6 titles with the Bulls. If you're talking about putting Kobe at his absolute best on those Bulls teams during that time, sure its definitely possible, but completely unfair and unrealistic. But if you take him as he has been year-by-year during that time, which is the natural and more fair thing to do, no way he does. Depending on how you want to take into account that he's played more seasons then Jordan now, you're talking about either a 1997-2010 Kobe or a 1999-2012 Kobe on the 1985-1998 Bulls. With that being the case, he probably wins something like 4 titles and thats while not retiring from 94-95, and I'm not even taking into account how his effect and influence on the development of his teammates would be. And there's no way he wins anywhere near 5 MVPs.

[Dragonyeuw]

Wrong on nearly all accounts...


- Jordan quit basketball because he lost the love of the game....many great players won multiple Titles as a superstar and never "got bored"

even after winning in 1991' MJ said he was very close to retiring and thought about it greatly....Kobe is the greatest player of his generation and one of the greatest winners of alltime (as a superstar...I.E. Horry and Kerr were not premiere players:rolleyes: )....and still Kobe is not "bored"

MJ sat out 1 and a 1/2 years...he came back in 95' (you probably never watched MJ....so why I'm arguing is beyond me) and choked...remember?


- Not sure how MJ was more durable?...he came into the league at 21 years old and broke his foot....

His first 3 years he was swept in the first round....he quit for a year and was able to rest his legs playing AAA baseball...came back and choked....

added the greatest defensive player and rebounder of his generation (Rodman) and won 3 more Titles.....quit again and came back at the same age as Grant Hill and JKidd and had knee problems after Ballhogging on yet again a sub .500 team (just as his career started)

Kobe gives you better offense in a tougher defensive era....nearly equal defense....longer career with (most likely more championships) and much more asthetically pleasing game to watch.

I'm afraid to ask but: this post would lead one to conclude you consider Kobe superior, yet earlier you said your GOAT list is Magic, then MJ/Kobe, signalling you consider them equals?

[Da_Realist]

Wrong on nearly all accounts...


- Jordan quit basketball because he lost the love of the game....many great players won multiple Titles as a superstar and never "got bored"

even after winning in 1991' MJ said he was very close to retiring and thought about it greatly....Kobe is the greatest player of his generation and one of the greatest winners of alltime (as a superstar...I.E. Horry and Kerr were not premiere players:rolleyes: )....and still Kobe is not "bored"

MJ sat out 1 and a 1/2 years...he came back in 95' (you probably never watched MJ....so why I'm arguing is beyond me) and choked...remember?


- Not sure how MJ was more durable?...he came into the league at 21 years old and broke his foot....

His first 3 years he was swept in the first round....he quit for a year and was able to rest his legs playing AAA baseball...came back and choked....

added the greatest defensive player and rebounder of his generation (Rodman) and won 3 more Titles.....quit again and came back at the same age as Grant Hill and JKidd and had knee problems after Ballhogging on yet again a sub .500 team (just as his career started)

Kobe gives you better offense in a tougher defensive era....nearly equal defense....longer career with (most likely more championships) and much more asthetically pleasing game to watch.

:oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Wrong on nearly all accounts...


- Jordan quit basketball because he lost the love of the game....many great players won multiple Titles as a superstar and never "got bored"

even after winning in 1991' MJ said he was very close to retiring and thought about it greatly....Kobe is the greatest player of his generation and one of the greatest winners of alltime (as a superstar...I.E. Horry and Kerr were not premiere players:rolleyes: )....and still Kobe is not "bored"

MJ sat out 1 and a 1/2 years...he came back in 95' (you probably never watched MJ....so why I'm arguing is beyond me) and choked...remember?


- Not sure how MJ was more durable?...he came into the league at 21 years old and broke his foot....

His first 3 years he was swept in the first round....he quit for a year and was able to rest his legs playing AAA baseball...came back and choked....

added the greatest defensive player and rebounder of his generation (Rodman) and won 3 more Titles.....quit again and came back at the same age as Grant Hill and JKidd and had knee problems after Ballhogging on yet again a sub .500 team (just as his career started)

Kobe gives you better offense in a tougher defensive era....nearly equal defense....longer career with (most likely more championships) and much more asthetically pleasing game to watch.

Kobe Bryant is and always has been legacy-obsessed. He hasn't gotten "bored" because he needs to play 20 years to nearly accomplish what his idol did in 15 :oldlol:

[Leviathon1121]

Kobe Bryant is and always has been legacy-obsessed. He hasn't gotten "bored" because he needs to play 20 years to nearly accomplish what his idol did in 15 :oldlol:


Well said.

[Extempo]

The insecurity of MJ fans when it comes to Kobe is quite amusing. Keep it up...

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe Bryant is and always has been legacy-obsessed. He hasn't gotten "bored" because he needs to play 20 years to nearly accomplish what his idol did in 15 :oldlol:
Being "legacy obsessed" is a good thing.
Kareem played, what, 21 years? Malone almost that much?
Playing at a high level for an unusually long time is a good thing!

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant is and always has been legacy-obsessed. He hasn't gotten "bored" because he needs to play 20 years to nearly accomplish what his idol did in 15 :oldlol:
not really. Kobe as a starter, for 13 years has 5 rings and 27K points. Pretty good If you ask me. Jordan after 13 seasons had 6 rings and 29K points, of course more Fmvps.
And Magic is his idol.

[TheMan]

The insecurity of MJ fans when it comes to Kobe is quite amusing. Keep it up...
The obsessive fixation of Kobetards always trying to denigrate Kobe's idol in a futile attempt to prop up KB24 is downright sad, stop embarrassing yourselves.

[Ne 1]

The insecurity of MJ fans when it comes to Kobe is quite amusing. Keep it up...

I've never understood the logic behind Jordan stans hating Kobe. Kobe is EXACTLY what Jordan stans would be if they could hoop. How can you be a Jordan stan and hate a man that respects your favorite player more than you do?

[SwooshReturns]

I've never understood the logic behind Jordan stans hating Kobe. Kobe is EXACTLY what Jordan stans would be if they could hoop. How can you be a Jordan stan and hate a man that respects your favorite player more than you do?
Same goes in the opposite direction. How can Kobe stans not like HIS favorite player, who at times he desperately tries to emulate?

Kobe has publically admitted he will never be as good as the guy, yet you have clowns like Laker stan, AlphaWolf24 stating otherwise.

I happen to be a rationale fan of both players ... my two favorite of all-time to be specific.

I grew up getting to watch both of them grow ... as a youngster at 5 watching MJ w/ my pops and watch him win his first three rings as a 6, 7, and 8 year old. Seeing him come back for more, watching him win as an 11, 12, and 13 year old.

Then in 2003 seeing Kobe, whom before that I didn't like particularly for the absurd hype and creepy MJ immitations, whether it be in interviews or whatever ... but I felt in 2003 he really grew into his own player.

He does things that remind me of MJ and that lineage, but he's much more of a long range gunner than acrobatic highlight reel attacking the rim than Jordan ever was ... they have similarities, but they are both fun individuals to watch.

There is no shame in a Kobe fan admitting MJ's superiority. It's not like he's ridiculously far behind him ... but he is inferior overall.

[Ne 1]

Same goes in the opposite direction. How can Kobe stans not like HIS favorite player, who at times he desperately tries to emulate?

Kobe has publically admitted he will never be as good as the guy, yet you have clowns like AlphaWolf24 stating otherwise.

I happen to be a rationale fan of both players ... my two favorite of all-time to be specific.


I agree and I'm just as confused by Kobe stans that hate Jordan. :confusedshrug:

But I think a lot of it has to do with the medias "next MJ" mantra created early in Kobe's career. I think that's pretty much ruined Kobe's appeal because now Kobe haters are on some Al Qaeda jihadist sh*t. It's not like Kobe asked for the comparison he just happened to pattern his game after MJ's. Kobe has even said himself a number of times that he dosen't like the comparisons.

I really believe a lot of people are salty that he's living their childhood dream and all they can do is throw stones.

[Bless Mathews]

Same goes in the opposite direction. How can Kobe stans not like HIS favorite player, who at times he desperately tries to emulate?

Kobe has publically admitted he will never be as good as the guy, yet you have clowns like Laker stan, AlphaWolf24 stating otherwise.

I happen to be a rationale fan of both players ... my two favorite of all-time to be specific.

I grew up getting to watch both of them grow ... as a youngster at 5 watching MJ w/ my pops and watch him win his first three rings as a 6, 7, and 8 year old. Seeing him come back for more, watching him win as an 11, 12, and 13 year old.

Then in 2003 seeing Kobe, whom before that I didn't like particularly for the absurd hype and creepy MJ immitations, whether it be in interviews or whatever ... but I felt in 2003 he really grew into his own player.

He does things that remind me of MJ and that lineage, but he's much more of a long range gunner than acrobatic highlight reel attacking the rim than Jordan ever was ... they have similarities, but they are both fun individuals to watch.

There is no shame in a Kobe fan admitting MJ's superiority. It's not like he's ridiculously far behind him ... but he is inferior overall.

Well written.

[SwooshReturns]

But I think a lot of it has to do with the medias "next MJ" mantra created early in Kobe's career.
I don't think it was that ... Harold Miner, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James all have got the "next MJ" treatment and hype.

Kobe alienated himself from 1997 - 2003 by literally trying way to hard and taking "the next MJ" stuff too literally, and creepily mocked MJ's behavior and mannerisms.

It turned off a lot of long time fans who knew they were watching a guy w/o his own identity, who was mimmicking a recently retired Jordan in a very creepy way. As if we didn't forget the guy just retired a few years ago.

And then the rape accusations didn't help matters.

But that's really the reason why so many people were turned off by Kobe.

[SwooshReturns]

Being "legacy obsessed" is a good thing.
Not always ... not in a team sport. I admire the drive and work ethic of Kobe Bryant. But sometimes his legacy first disorder has caused for bad decisions and alienated himself and teammates. Hell, to this day he still hasn't grown out of it. Do you think he's always playing to simply win, or is he sometimes ummm a little too focused on perception and career standings w/ the all-time greats? I'm not judging ... his flwas to me are what make him so entertaining.

[Legends66NBA7]

Though, this kinda goes in the opposite direction of the thread:

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142357

It's actually a good read when I used to lurk on ISH.

[guy]

I don't think it was that ... Harold Miner, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James all have got the "next MJ" treatment and hype.

Kobe alienated himself from 1997 - 2003 by literally trying way to hard and taking "the next MJ" stuff too literally, and creepily mocked MJ's behavior and mannerisms.

It turned off a lot of long time fans who knew they were watching a guy w/o his own identity, who was mimmicking a recently retired Jordan in a very creepy way. As if we didn't forget the guy just retired a few years ago.

And then the rape accusations didn't help matters.

But that's really the reason why so many people were turned off by Kobe.

Don't forget complaining about his role when they were winning championships, breaking up an elite team that just went to the Finals and had already won 3 titles, and then wanting a trade only 3 years after he broke up that team. There's alot of reasons why people haven't liked him over the years.

[SkyR#1fanCapCou]

Pretty please.
Are we gonna act like MJ's team didn't win just 2 less when he left? Wasn't he bailed out by his teammates on numerous occaisons?

2 less regular season games and didn't make the ECF, losing to a Knicks squad that Jordan never lost to. Horace and Armstrong arguably had their best season of their careers that year. Adding in Kerr and Kukoc helped a little.

And guess what happened the following year before and after Jordan came back.


If you are 35+ (which you're not), it means you were 10-ish when Jordan started. So you just can't move on from your nostalgia. If you think he is the GOAT, good for you. Us who don't think he's the GOAT don't give a tiny rat's ass about your opinion!!

If you don't give a rats ass, why'd you bother responding?

[Nevaeh]

Don't forget complaining about his role when they were winning championships, breaking up an elite team that just went to the Finals and had already won 3 titles, and then wanting a trade only 3 years after he broke up that team. There's alot of reasons why people haven't liked him over the years.

Even if you're just a pure Basketball Fan who wants to see simple, effective team ball, you're forced to watch this dude chuck up bullsh!t, while his teammates are "Red Hot", and cost them games. Then have retarded asses starting "Praise" Threads co-signing the madness, like it's a good thing.

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.

[barnett114]

Jordan the GOAT

/Thread

[TheMan]

Even if you're just a pure Basketball Fan who wants to see simple, effective team ball, you're forced to watch this dude chuck up bullsh!t, while his teammates are "Red Hot", and cost them games. Then have retarded asses starting "Praise" Threads co-signing the madness, like it's a good thing.

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.

Wow, that's harsh.

[AlphaWolf24]

Even if you're just a pure Basketball Fan who wants to see simple, effective team ball, you're forced to watch this dude chuck up bullsh!t, while his teammates are "Red Hot", and cost them games. Then have retarded asses starting "Praise" Threads co-signing the madness, like it's a good thing.

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.


real Laker fan here (raises hand)....Kobe is probably the greatest Laker of alltime to watch..

even Diane Cannon said Kobe is the best Laker to watch since 1970...(when she started to go to all the games)

Diane Cannon > any kid here

[Nevaeh]

real Laker fan here (raises........

Dude, shut the F@ck up...........:roll: :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

Dude, shut the F@ck up...........:roll: :roll:


been watching Laker games since before you were born....


recognize.


Diane even said Kobe is the best Laker to watch...(opens Pocket)

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Even if you're just a pure Basketball Fan who wants to see simple, effective team ball, you're forced to watch this dude chuck up bullsh!t, while his teammates are "Red Hot", and cost them games. Then have retarded asses starting "Praise" Threads co-signing the madness, like it's a good thing.

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.
Not true. Real Laker fans are interested in only one thing: Championships.
Thus far, this "chucker" has delivered five...and has a shot at a couple more.
ps. even shooting 43% puts him above average for a SG...thus still NOT a chucker.

[AlphaWolf24]

Not true. Real Laker fans are interested in only one thing: Championships.
Thus far, this "chucker" has delivered five...and has a shot at a couple more.
ps. even shooting 43% puts him above average for a SG...thus still NOT a chucker.


what?..real fans are about winning????...I thought it was all about efficiency??:confusedshrug:


who knew?

[Legends66NBA7]

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.

Wait Nev, you're a Laker fan ?

[AlphaWolf24]

Dyan Cannon (Life long laker fan...going to games since 1970 , averages 80 games oper season) said Kobe is the greatest Laker of alltime.

so far...

Magic
Logo
Shaq
Cannon...

all say the same thing...



next

[Nevaeh]

Not true. Real Laker fans are interested in only one thing: Championships.
Thus far, this "chucker" has delivered five...and has a shot at a couple more.
ps. even shooting 43% puts him above average for a SG...thus still NOT a chucker.

I know that, that was my original point.

Dude, please don't start that "AlphaWolf- rewrite history" bullsh!t too...:(


Too late...............:cry:

[eliteballer]

For Us That Are Older Than 35 Years Old, We KNOW Michael Jordan Is The GOAT

You just grew up with the media teaching you to worship him

[Nevaeh]

Wait Nev, you're a Laker fan ?

Yeah, Legend, way back in Nineteen Diggity five, I was a big fan. Have the Lakers Complete History DVD package and everything. Actually wanted Magic to ride off with "One More" into the sunset back in 91, because he got me to love the game again in 87.

Chick being Chick, Stu Lantz saying "that will NOT...get it done", the whole shebang Man, I loved it. Then the league decided to "manufacture" Dynasties to compete with the Bulls for ratings, and f@cked the whole Game up.
:oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

You just grew up with the media teaching you to worship him

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_m47ZDDq0r4A/TCBG2tTpJnI/AAAAAAAAAFY/f2Nel5vQHMs/s1600/kobe-in-mj-jersey.jpg

Dude shut up..........:rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, Legend, way back in Nineteen Diggity five, I was a big fan. Have the Lakers Complete History DVD package and everything. Actually wanted Magic to ride off with "One More" into the sunset back in 91, because he got me to love the game again in 87.

Chick being Chick, Stu Lantz saying "that will NOT...get it done", the whole shebang Man, I loved it. Then the league decided to "manufacture" Dynasties to compete with the Bulls for ratings, and f@cked the whole Game up.
:oldlol:

Wow, nice recollection of old memories. :cheers:

It must be nice having to be a fan of such a prestigious franchise.

I do agree with the dynasties thing. I can't really blame the NBA because business tends to always come before anything else.

I thought maybe you were a fan of some other team or maybe even just a Jordan fan, but this is pretty interesting. :oldlol:

Though, don't you give Kobe props for all the fun time and titles he got the Lakers during his tenure?

I know to other posters, it looks like you dislike the player, but I'm assuming that's not the case now. And I guessing maybe you're going to miss him when he's gone too...

Or not. :D

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Even if you're just a pure Basketball Fan who wants to see simple, effective team ball, you're forced to watch this dude chuck up bullsh!t, while his teammates are "Red Hot", and cost them games. Then have retarded asses starting "Praise" Threads co-signing the madness, like it's a good thing.

Even Real Laker Fans are getting burned out on watching this dude embarrass the Game and the Lakers as as a whole. Those who were Fans of the "Magic" era are patiently waiting for this dude to retire, so we can like the Lakers again.


Was a huge Magic Johnson fan and when he retired I eventually adopted the Clippers (Manning, Harper, Doc Rivers and those boys..good times).

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6691252&postcount=72

[Nevaeh]

Wow, nice recollection of old memories. :cheers:

It must be nice having to be a fan of such a prestigious franchise.

I do agree with the dynasties thing. I can't really blame the NBA because business tends to always come before anything else.

I thought maybe you were a fan of some other team or maybe even just a Jordan fan, but this is pretty interesting. :oldlol:

Though, don't you give Kobe props for all the fun time and titles he got the Lakers during his tenure?

I know to other posters, it looks like you dislike the player, but I'm assuming that's not the case now. And I guessing maybe you're going to miss him when he's gone too...

Or not. :D

You see, that's the problem. You want to give Kobe props for things he's done, but his Stans don't know how to take a compliment as just that. No, somehow anything he does must be viewed as the Greatest Event Ever, even when the evidence says otherwise. And when you show them where he comes up short, You're a "Hater" or a "Jihadist" as NE-1, a full blown, KNOWN troll, tries to insinuate.

Like for example, bleedinPurpleTwo, right on the last page, actually trying to justify 43% shooting as "good" because it's the league average. For an "avarage" player, OK I'll take that. But from a so-called "GOAT" candidate? the f@ck outta here, that's straight garbage.

Maybe when He's retired, like other polarizing Stars, like Shaq was to an extent, he can be viewed and looked at honestly. Because as long as his Stans are here to "make up sh!t", peeps like me will be here to correct them. Like for example ImmortalD24, who had to audacity to say MJ was lobbying for Kobe to join team Jordan, when it was actually kobe buying out his own contract with Adidas to possibly join Nike.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256031&page=9

That's why guys like me stay on their asses like I do, because youngters will start believing their madness, even when they know they're lying every chance they get.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I am 92 years old. I have met Dr. James Naismith when I was a teenager in the '30s, what an incredible guy he was. And I have seen every great player there ever was - Mikan, Pettit, Russell, Baylor, West, Wilt, ect. I can assure you that the late great George Mikan, Mr. Basketball he was called, was the greatest player of all-time. He was just incredible and did it all. Carried teams to championships like no other.

[Nevaeh]

I am 92 years old. I have met Dr. James Naismith when I was a teenager in the '30s, what an incredible guy he was. And I have seen every great player there ever was - Mikan, Pettit, Russell, Baylor, West, Wilt, ect. I can assure you that the late great George Mikan, Mr. Basketball he was called, was the greatest player of all-time. He was just incredible and did it all. Carried teams to championships like no other.

You see Legend? they can't help themselves. :oldlol:

:cheers:

[Nevaeh]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6691252&postcount=72

Yeah I remember the days of "The General" Gary Grant, Loy Vaught, Stacey Augmon (sp), and Benoit Benjamin.

Ralph Lawler, and the "Big Red Head" Bill Walton. "Bingo!!!".

Damn, the late 80s-early 90s was the sh!t :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

You see Legend? they can't help themselves. :oldlol:

:cheers:
What are you talking about? This is all true. You have proof? Well, I do. This is a picture of me I took yesterday

http://www.upperplayground.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/f62cf90216anWWII.png.png

I fought in WWII kiddo, respect your elders.

[Ne 1]

Jordan the GOAT

/Thread

http://oi39.tinypic.com/j9c40l.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

What are you talking about? This is all true. You have proof? Well, I do. This is a picture of me I took yesterday

http://www.upperplayground.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/f62cf90216anWWII.png.png

I fought in WWII kiddo, respect your elders.

Oh word:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6467898&postcount=17

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6595097&postcount=24

:ohwell:

[Legends66NBA7]

Like for example, bleedinPurpleTwo, right on the last page, actually trying to justify 43% shooting as "good" because it's the league average. For an "avarage" player, OK I'll take that. But from a so-called "GOAT" candidate? the f@ck outta here, that's straight garbage.

I agree completely. I mean, sure it's average, but Kobe should be better because he's an all-time great, right ?

That's why I don't understand the arguement sometimes, myself.


That's why guys like me stay on their asses like I do, because youngters will start believing their madness, even when they know they're lying every chance they get.

I can respect that still. :cheers:

I will come to Kobe's defense, if needed, but not to lie and make things up.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Oh word:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6467898&postcount=17

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6595097&postcount=24

:ohwell:
Someone hacked my account a while back

[Nevaeh]

I agree completely. I mean, sure it's average, but Kobe should be better because he's an all-time great, right ?

That's why I don't understand the arguement sometimes, myself.



I can respect that still. :cheers:

I will come to Kobe's defense, if needed, but not to lie and make things up.

Exactly, and I can respect that. I have no problem with some seeing Kobe as a top ten player, bringing up certain accolades or whatever. It's the constant lying that sets people like me in motion to remind them "what time it is", when they say dumb sh!t like " Kobe's chucking style of play is what won him 5 rings" when they know it's a lie. That one, they've added to the "list" pretty recently, BTW.
:oldlol:

[iDefend5]

Oh word:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6467898&postcount=17

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6595097&postcount=24

:ohwell:
:roll: :roll: :applause: Even though you are a stalker and can't think for yourself.

[Legends66NBA7]

"Kobe's chucking style of play is what won him 5 rings" when they know it's a lie. That one, they've added to the "list" pretty recently, BTW.

Yeah, I don't know how that helps Kobe's legacy at all... that's pretty bad if future basketball talents have to adopt his style of play.

I think future generations will look at the accolades, criteria, etc... and know where Kobe should respectfully be ranked among the other basketball greats.

[Legends66NBA7]

Even though you are a stalker and can't think for yourself.

Stalker ?

Check the second link, I posted there too. I checked back on that thread, because I was going to give the OP some details.

First link, I was just curious with what the age group of most of the people here are.

Ain't stalking if I google search something, sorry. Don't leave you're personal stuff on the internet then. :confusedshrug:

[iDefend5]

Stalker ?

yeah

[Nevaeh]

Yeah, I don't know how that helps Kobe's legacy at all... that's pretty bad if future basketball talents have to adopt his style of play.

I think future generations will look at the accolades, criteria, etc... and know where Kobe should respectfully be ranked among the other basketball greats.


Right. OK, for another example of "idiocy" you've probably seen. Kobe was the MVP of the "real" finals, which is the WCF. OK, if the "real" finals is supposed to be the hardest challenge, why all the subpar performances during the "fake" finals, where things should be easier?

Why no "fake" Finals MVP awards during the 3-peat, eh? You see a lot of off handed jabs to try and diminish Shaq, when he was actually the most productive, efficient and consistent player through every Finals run. I mean, really.
:oldlol:

[andgar923]

MJ was the GOAT.... PERIOD!

Anybody arguing otherwise is a hater, plain and simple.

By almost every single metric/measure possible, MJ comes out on top.

[Legends66NBA7]

yeah

Great.

[305Baller]

MJ Goat, but I would have liked to see more of Kareem myself...

[BlackJoker23]

Stalker ?

Check the second link, I posted there too. I checked back on that thread, because I was going to give the OP some details.

First link, I was just curious with what the age group of most of the people here are.

Ain't stalking if I google search something, sorry. Don't leave you're personal stuff on the internet then. :confusedshrug:
look at this fakkit tryin to act all detective and shit. life must suck breh living in canada and stealing opinions from youtube, old threads on ish and dickriding gayblaze and all the other jordan jockers

[Draz]

About to be 20 & I know for a fact LBJ is the clutchest most valuable best player on this earth.

[Legends66NBA7]

Right. OK, for another example of "idiocy" you've probably seen. Kobe was the MVP of the "real" finals, which is the WCF. OK, if the "real" finals is supposed to be the hardest challenge, why all the subpar performances during the "fake" finals, where things should be easier?

Why no "fake" Finals MVP awards during the 3-peat, eh? You see a lot of off handed jabs to try and diminish Shaq, when he was actually the most productive, efficient and consistent player through every Finals run. I mean, really.

Yeah, I don't get that either.

I will say that Kobe definitely showed he can hold is own with the best during those series in the WCF and previous rounds, but Shaq was still the best player for those championship teams and that clearly showed in the Finals. I didn't really find a problem with him losing the Finals MVP to Shaq, but the nonsense of it's the "fake finals" needs to stop.

Do people really think that winning the WCF crown is better than the NBA Finals championship ? That's a reach. And I'm on you're side with that one.

Kobe was a very good player, but he just didn't put up the consistent performances during his first 2 finals, like he did in the WCF. I didn't mind that he did though, because I knew he was still the second option and he still had his ups and downs to get through, before he could learn from them.

[Bless Mathews]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_m47ZDDq0r4A/TCBG2tTpJnI/AAAAAAAAAFY/f2Nel5vQHMs/s1600/kobe-in-mj-jersey.jpg

Dude shut up..........:rolleyes:





Hqhahahahaha.
:applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

life must suck breh living in canada

Nah man, life's good in Canada.

Thanks. :cheers:

[Nevaeh]

Nah man, life's good in Canada.

Thanks. :cheers:

Are u guys catching a "heat wave" too Legends?

[Bless Mathews]

Ok. I knew I shoukdnt have put Kobe's name in original post, all these Kobe tards coming out in droves...

I just used him as an example to my point of mj's invincibility and how NO ONE has conveyed that feeling of "no doubt, hes gonna do something amazing and win he chip".

Kobe won 3 chips as the second best player on his team... :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

And once again, not even you Kobe tards KNOW he is gonna win...

Like tiger before everything went to Crap...you JUST KNEW he was gonna win , broken leg and all...he was that good

You can't type the same for anyone other than mj.....that's my point ...

And if you were there, and watched him, magic, bird, and now Kobe, Bron Bron, no one is even CLOSE to having that feeling of you JUST KNEW he was going to win, and (ding ding ding) he always did...(of course once he matured)..

Even you Kobe tards can't type you know 100% without a shadow of a doubt he will win, CUS HE HAS PROVEN OTHERWISE..

[Legends66NBA7]

Are u guys catching a "heat wave" too Legends?

Yeah, we are man.

It was 25 degrees today in Toronto and it's going to be around 24-26 degrees tomorrow.

It shouldn't be this hot in spring. It's great whether though, you can go out and play some ball in this whether, it's great.

[Ne 1]

Shaq was still the best player for those championship teams

No doubt. Shaq was the most dominating player in the entire league back then and there isn't any other player that wouldn't have deferred to prime Shaq, but Kobe was the greatest "second option" of all time those years and probably the second best player in the playoffs during the '01 and '02 championship runs.

Actually if there was an MVP for each series in '01 and '02 this is how it would go down...

2001:
vs. Blazers - Either, hard to pick.
vs. Kings - Could go with either, Shaq dominated first two games and Kobe the last two. Shaq is better if you combine the stats I think so you could give him the edge.
vs. Spurs - Kobe, but Shaq played well too.
vs. Sixers - Shaq

2002:
vs. Blazers - Shaq
vs. Spurs - Kobe (Shaq was injured in this series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, Lakers would have lost this series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games)
vs. Kings - I'll say Shaq but after watching the series it was way closer than the stats say (Kobe was just as important as Shaq in the wins, but Shaq played better than him in the losses and Kobe had some horrific shooting nights in those games they lost).
vs. Nets - Shaq, but Kobe played well too. (Kobe had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort)

[Bless Mathews]

And BTW, I played 3rd string point guard on the showtime laker teams... I bleed gold, Just look at my avatar.

[Nevaeh]

Yeah, we are man.

It was 25 degrees today in Toronto and it's going to be around 24-26 degrees tomorrow.

It shouldn't be this hot in spring. It's great whether though, you can go out and play some ball in this whether, it's great.

Yikes. Would hate to know what your "cold" days are like :(

Yeah im Ill, and it may as well be July right now. No complaints though :cheers:

[Legends66NBA7]

but Kobe was the greatest "second option" of all time those years and probably the second best player in the playoffs during the '01 and '02 championship runs.


Yes, I don't deny this. Although, there could be the arguement for Pippen as the best second option, can't go wrong really with either, IMO.

People sometimes dock Kobe for winning as the second option for his first 3 rings. I don't, since he does deserve props for being a superstar player in 01 and 02. Just not the props as the best player.

He was a very important piece to the 01 and 02 teams. And while his 2000 run showed that he was still very raw and had more inconsistency in his game, he had some key games as well, like Game 6 and 7 in WCF and Game 4 in the 2000 Finals (although, the rest of the series he was pretty bad, partly also because of injury).

[Legends66NBA7]

Yikes. Would hate to know what your "cold" days are like :(

Yeah im Ill, and it may as well be July right now. No complaints though :cheers:

"Cold" days are like... between -10 and -20, excluding wind chill. With the wind chill, it feels like -25 and you will feel it when the wind is blowing in you're face. :oldlol:

Oh and get well soon, man. :cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

No doubt. Shaq was the most dominating player in the entire league back then and there isn't any other player that wouldn't have deferred to prime Shaq, but Kobe was the greatest "second option" of all time those years and probably the second best player in the playoffs during the '01 and '02 championship runs.

Actually if there was an MVP for each series in '01 and '02 this is how it would go down...

2001:
vs. Blazers - Either, hard to pick.
vs. Kings - Could go with either, Shaq dominated first two games and Kobe the last two. Shaq is better if you combine the stats I think so you could give him the edge.
vs. Spurs - Kobe, but Shaq played well too.
vs. Sixers - Shaq

2002:
vs. Blazers - Shaq
vs. Spurs - Kobe (Shaq was injured in this series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, Lakers would have lost this series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games)
vs. Kings - I'll say Shaq but after watching the series it was way closer than the stats say (Kobe was just as important as Shaq in the wins, but Shaq played better than him in the losses and Kobe had some horrific shooting nights in those games they lost).
vs. Nets - Shaq, but Kobe played well too. (Kobe had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort)
better second option than kareem ('85, '87-'88), oscar, and west

[Nevaeh]

"Cold" days are like... between -10 and -20, excluding wind chill. With the wind chill, it feels like -25 and you will feel it when the wind is blowing in you're face. :oldlol:

Oh and get well soon, man. :cheers:

Sorry, i meant IN ILL, as in illinois. my bad.

[guy]

Yeah, I don't get that either.

I will say that Kobe definitely showed he can hold is own with the best during those series in the WCF and previous rounds, but Shaq was still the best player for those championship teams and that clearly showed in the Finals. I didn't really find a problem with him losing the Finals MVP to Shaq, but the nonsense of it's the "fake finals" needs to stop.

Do people really think that winning the WCF crown is better than the NBA Finals championship ? That's a reach. And I'm on you're side with that one.

Kobe was a very good player, but he just didn't put up the consistent performances during his first 2 finals, like he did in the WCF. I didn't mind that he did though, because I knew he was still the second option and he still had his ups and downs to get through, before he could learn from them.

Well said. Another thing is that the difference between there WCF and Finals opponents in those years are VERY overstated. Only in 2002, the Kings were so much better then the Nets. In 2000 though, the Blazers were better but not that much better then the Pacers who had been to 5 of the previous 7 ECF and had a ton of chemistry together. And in 2001, I think you can easily argue that the 76ers were equal or better then the Spurs.

And even if they faced slightly lesser opponents in the Finals in 2000 and 2001, its not like it never happened before. It isn't uncommon at all for a championship team to face a better opponent in the conference finals then in the Finals. I would argue that was the case in a few of the Bulls' championship runs.

[Legends66NBA7]

Sorry, i meant IN ILL, as in illinois. my bad.

:oldlol:

I think Chicago gets colder weathers...

[Nevaeh]

:oldlol:

I think Chicago gets colder weathers...

Yeah, we do usually, but its like 75 degrees right NOW, which is crazy

[Ne 1]

Although, there could be the arguement for Pippen as the best second option, can't go wrong really with either, IMO.


Well, '01 and '02 Kobe> any version of Pippen, but '91-'93 and '96-'98 Pippen> '00 Kobe.


People sometimes dock Kobe for winning as the second option for his first 3 rings. I don't, since he does deserve props for being a superstar player in 01 and 02. Just not the props as the best player.


It's ridiculous. Especially considering that Kobe's production was on par with first options in the 2001 and 2002 championship seasons, I don't think it's fair to write those off as "second option rings". The Lakers didn't have a legit 3rd scorer, so despite Shaq scoring more than many other players in championship years, Kobe also scored more and did more than many other first options and while Shaq was the focal point of the offense, and yes, clearly the Lakers leader, Kobe was their playmaker and facilitator (averaging numbers that a first option would have on any other squad). Here's a quote that sums up Kobe's 2001 run:

I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that. - Phil Jackson

[guy]

I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that. - Phil Jackson

Is this the infamous quote that Kobe fans point to when they claim Phil said Kobe was a better overall player then Jordan?