Coach Nick: Russell Westbrook is not a point guard.

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0_CeUzud_g&feature=g-u-u&context=G2fac456FUAAAAAAAAAA

Really good breakdown on it. Can't deny the facts.

[EoJ]

I love me some coach Nick

[Figlo]

Some of those are BONEHEAD plays just plain stupid, this is why adding european teams could really make the NBA better. Top european Coaches would smack Westbrook for plays like that, NBA coaches SUCK. The players have no respect for them, it's embarrassing really. NBA coaches suck. SMFH

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

Imagine if Durant got a PG like D Will, CP3 or Rondo? Dude would be a 35 ppg scorer.

[Clippersfan86]

It's crazy.... in this video I can't tell you how many times Ivy and Durant were on the wing wide open and they were both hot....

[Stern]

Thats why they r not gonna win anything

[bizil]

Dont get me wrong, Russ is a beast and one of the best guards in the L. But I agree, he's more of an SG or combo type guard. Westbrook and Rose are compared because they are freak athletes and great scorers. But Rose is MILES AHEAD of Westbrook in the PG aspects. Rose still he isn't on the level of CP3, DWill, Nash, and Rondo level in terms of floor generalship and pure PG facets. But Rose is still very good at those facets.

I would want to keep D Rose at PG because of the impact he has on the game though. If I could get a bigger PG who can guards 2's effectively, I would really consider moving Westbrook to SG. Guys like AI and Ellis made the move to an undersized SG. AI had the advantage of playing with PG's who could guard SG's well. Ellis hasn't really had that chance. But I get Russ benefit of the doubt because he was an SG in college. So he is still trying to learn PG.

Guys like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, Payton, Tiny, CP3, DWill, Nash, etc. are all capable of putting up big time points and alpha dog shit. But they fufill the premium PG duties at the highest levels as well. U have guys like Kidd, Stockton, Rondo, Mark Jackson, etc. that are technicians at the premium PG duties and epic at it. But they aren't the scoring threat like the group I named earlier. Guys like Rose, Westbrook, Francis, Arenas, etc. are scoring PG's who have enough handle and passing ability to be a PG. But the way they see the game is more of a combo or even a SG type.

[GOBB]

Why would Durant scoring go up to 35ppg with DWill, CP3 or Rondo, when Blake Griffin hasnt benefitted offensively from CP3 and neither has Deandre Jordan. Cut the silly talk.

[Nanners]

westbrook just turned 23 years old and there is only one other point guard in the nba that is on his level athletically. he is 5th in the nba in scoring at a respectable 47%. his upside is massive. i like that OKC has given him the keys and allowed him to figure things out by trial and error. this year he is scoring more and assisting less, that doesnt mean he isnt a point guard.

[StroShow4]

I hope there's no one out there who actually had to watch a 10-minute video to realize that Russell tends to make a lot of questionable decisions. :oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

Why would Durant scoring go up to 35ppg with DWill, CP3 or Rondo, when Blake Griffin hasnt benefitted offensively from CP3 and neither has Deandre Jordan. Cut the silly talk.

The Clippers have a more balanced offense obviously with what 5 or 6 players who average 13+ ppg. The Thunder's offense pretty much comes from Westbrook+Durant+Harden. Durant's PPG would absolutely go up with a PG who is more willing to pass. Griffin's went down because the team added 2 15+ ppg scorers from previous season in Butler+Billups.

[blacknapalm]

i was actually surprised OKC didn't offer westbrook for rondo. boston could use more scoring from the PG position in the future and rondo is a better fit for OKC so it could have helped both teams. on top of that, rondo's contract isn't as big as some of the other great PG's

[Clippersfan86]

i was actually surprised OKC didn't offer westbrook for rondo. boston could use more scoring from the PG position in the future and rondo is a better fit for OKC so it could have helped both teams. on top of that, rondo's contract isn't as big as some of the other great PG's

Rondo+pick or something for Westbrook would of been great for both teams.

[I.R.Beast]

Why would Durant scoring go up to 35ppg with DWill, CP3 or Rondo, when Blake Griffin hasnt benefitted offensively from CP3 and neither has Deandre Jordan. Cut the silly talk.
because they will make the defense forget that Durant is on the team so he will be open all game long.

[I.R.Beast]

Why do people believe this BS...look around the league...These pg you guys are praisin in this thread aren't even increasing their own teams offensive efficiency...

This league is about playing to your strengths and helping your team win...

WESTBROOK IS THE 2nd BEST PG IN THE LEAGUE...DEAL WITH IT

[reppy]

Westbrook really just needs to slow down. It's like his mind is racing on offense and he can't wait to make his move.

[sick_brah07]

Why would Durant scoring go up to 35ppg with DWill, CP3 or Rondo, when Blake Griffin hasnt benefitted offensively from CP3 and neither has Deandre Jordan. Cut the silly talk.

come on GOBB you know very well if it happens in the 2k franchise mode it has to be true

[sick_brah07]

because they will make the defense forget that Durant is on the team so he will be open all game long.


:roll: :roll:

[GoldNugg21]

It really is a good analysis. The parts that really hit home for me are the plays where he gets himself in trouble complaining to the refs, loafing back on D after a fall, overplaying the ball on D for no reason, and throwing up long jumpers early in the shot clock.

That's low bball IQ, no leadership crap that I hate to see from a PG at any level. The kid has talent, but if he can't become a real PG, he would be better off moving to SG. And nothing I've seen tells me he's making any progress.

[wally_world]

One of the times that WB just makes you go

http://seoulbeats.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/jackie-chan-wtf-300x216.png

[G-train]

I enjoy Coach Nick's videos but this is one where he has gone a little too hard on the guy.
Westbrook does tend to make 5 or so poor decisions a game, and Nick happened to analyse one where he made 10-15.
You are not an elite team and a Championship contender if your star PG plays like that every game, which he doesn't.

[FlawlessVictory]

It is good analysis, but its one game... I'm sorry, but I am not denouncing him a PG based on one game.

[Clippersfan86]

It really is a good analysis. The parts that really hit home for me are the plays where he gets himself in trouble complaining to the refs, loafing back on D after a fall, overplaying the ball on D for no reason, and throwing up long jumpers early in the shot clock.

That's low bball IQ, no leadership crap that I hate to see from a PG at any level. The kid has talent, but if he can't become a real PG, he would be better off moving to SG. And nothing I've seen tells me he's making any progress.

I've always complained that CP3 uses all of the shot clock... but I guess it's better than forcing jumpers with 21 seconds left on the clock :oldlol: .

[Celtic_Pride]

Are there still people who think Westbrook is a Point Guard?

IMO, he is a top 5 SG

[Nanners]

if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.

[I.R.Beast]

Rondo....Here's a little fun fact about Mr Rondo....since he's been given the keys to our 0ffense after the championship, Boston has never finished in the top 10 in offensive efficiency despite his assists rising. Look at the celtics now...we may not even make the playoffs. The clippers?....slipping down the standing struggling against poor teams. Paul has done nothing to increase Blake Griffin Numbers, and the clippers offense is stagnant as stagnant can be.

The thunder is winning and Rusself Westbrook is a HUGE part of the reason why.... motherf**k a true PG....just win games.

[LABean]

Why would Durant scoring go up to 35ppg with DWill, CP3 or Rondo, when Blake Griffin hasnt benefitted offensively from CP3 and neither has Deandre Jordan. Cut the silly talk.
:roll: :roll:

[Clocian-IGN]

if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.

false

[Clippersfan86]

Rondo....Here's a little fun fact about Mr Rondo....since he's been given the keys to our 0ffense after the championship, Boston has never finished in the top 10 in offensive efficiency despite his assists rising. Look at the celtics now...we may not even make the playoffs. The clippers?....slipping down the standing struggling against poor teams. Paul has done nothing to increase Blake Griffin Numbers, and the clippers offense is stagnant as stagnant can be.

The thunder is winning and Rusself Westbrook is a HUGE part of the reason why.... motherf**k a true PG....just win games.

Clippers are struggling due to a major injury :confusedshrug: . Not sure how they slipped far down the standings. The most games over .500 they were was 10. They are 8 games over now. They also have been a top 5 offense all year, top 3 most of year. The differential without Chris Paul in lineup is an insane 9 ppg or so. Nice try though.... but it failed kid.

[GOBB]

come on GOBB you know very well if it happens in the 2k franchise mode it has to be true

:roll:



The Clippers have a more balanced offense obviously with what 5 or 6 players who average 13+ ppg. The Thunder's offense pretty much comes from Westbrook+Durant+Harden. Durant's PPG would absolutely go up with a PG who is more willing to pass. Griffin's went down because the team added 2 15+ ppg scorers from previous season in Butler+Billups.

PPG going up (which could mean anything, he avg 27ppg now it could go to 28-29ppg with those Pgs you mentioned) is one thing.

PPG going up to 35ppg is another. I'm sorry, you are being a bit ridiculous with that statement to think either PG improves Durants scoring ppg to that level. They wont. They are not Pgs who feed, feed, feed a scorer the ball over and over and over.

[Nanners]

false

here are westbrook and roses career averages. you tell me which stat line belongs to the true pg:

21.1 ppg 6.8 apg 3.9 rpg 2.9 to

18.7 ppg 6.9 apg 4.7 rpg 3.5 to


westbrook is shooting more and passing less this year, that doesnt mean he is not a pg anymore. if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.

[LJJ]

Coach Nick really needs to

A) Get a better green screen and video editing software.

or (cheap ass solution)

B) Use simply use a real world background.

[Clippersfan86]

:roll:




PPG going up (which could mean anything, he avg 27ppg now it could go to 28-29ppg with those Pgs you mentioned) is one thing.

PPG going up to 35ppg is another. I'm sorry, you are being a bit ridiculous with that statement to think either PG improves Durants scoring ppg to that level. They wont. They are not Pgs who feed, feed, feed a scorer the ball over and over and over.

I didn't mean right off the bat. Just meant he would be scoring a lot more. Durant is such a gifted offensive player a 35 ppg season like Kobe wouldn't surprise me. The point was... he would be scoring a good amount more with a PG more willing to get him the ball.

Of course though you still have a tampon in your ass with every post I make... so I can't expect you to let an exaggeration slide without nitpicking.

[I.R.Beast]

:roll:




PPG going up (which could mean anything, he avg 27ppg now it could go to 28-29ppg with those Pgs you mentioned) is one thing.

PPG going up to 35ppg is another. I'm sorry, you are being a bit ridiculous with that statement to think either PG improves Durants scoring ppg to that level. They wont. They are not Pgs who feed, feed, feed a scorer the ball over and over and over.
His ppg going up would have more to do with him having to take on more of the offense load..... It 2 and half extra assits by a pg really worth giving up westbrook 24 ppg on 47% shooting....NOPE!!.....i swear APG is such an overrated stats.....look around the league....look at the tops teams in offensive efficiency tell me how many of them have high assists guys.....

[Clippersfan86]

here are westbrook and roses career averages. you tell me which stat line belongs to the true pg:

21.1 ppg 6.8 apg 3.9 rpg 2.9 to

18.7 ppg 6.9 apg 4.7 rpg 3.5 to


westbrook is shooting more and passing less this year, that doesnt mean he is not a pg anymore. if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.

Dude just watch them play and you'll have a revelation. Rose is playing like a PG this year. He's far more willing to pass and a better passer than Westbrook. Much better ballhandler and overall decision maker. Rose>Westbrook PERIOD.

[Celtic_Pride]

if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.

No

Rose will never settle for jump shots with more than 15 seconds left on the clock. He either drives, passes to the open teammate or take a 3 pointer if he is open

His passing and court vision are surely aren't on the same level as of CP3, Nash, Rondo etc. but he is a point guard and easily the 2nd best after CP3

[dunksby]

Stopped @ "I will show you...why [Wesbtrook] will never win a Championship".

[Clocian-IGN]

here are westbrook and roses career averages. you tell me which stat line belongs to the true pg:

21.1 ppg 6.8 apg 3.9 rpg 2.9 to

18.7 ppg 6.9 apg 4.7 rpg 3.5 to


westbrook is shooting more and passing less this year, that doesnt mean he is not a pg anymore.

careeer avgs when deciding this is useless since players grow as time goes on.

bulls are a top 2 assist team assist team where as okc are 28th. bulls are 6th in turnovers where as okc are dead last.

:kobe:

[Nanners]

Dude just watch them play and you'll have a revelation. Rose is playing like a PG this year. He's far more willing to pass and a better passer than Westbrook. Much better ballhandler and overall decision maker. Rose>Westbrook PERIOD.

if you are going to respond, take a minute and actually read my damn post. first of all, i never said westbrook was a better ballhandler, decision maker or player in general. i said that they are both point guards. i also explicitly said that westbrook is shooting more and passing less THIS YEAR. how quickly can you morons forget that westbrook had 8 assists his past two years? its not like westbrook is suddenly unwilling to pass this season. scotty brooks gave him the green light to shoot, and anybody who has seen the improvement in westbricks jumper knows it is paying off.

[Whoah10115]

:oldlol:



The cheaper player plus a pick for Russell Westbrook, when the cheaper player is a better player than Russell Westbrook.




Westbrook is a combo guard, more than anything. He and Harden both starting would be fine. They don't need a true PG. They just need another playmaker (Harden).




And Rose and Westbrook are not that comparable. Westbrook handles the ball at the top of the key, like he doesn't know what he's gonna do, because he doesn't. It's not his fault, he was a 2 throughout college. He prefers to get on the wing or to work with another ball-handler. Derrick Rose, even if he's more of a scorer and doesn't necessarily do all the PG things, is clearly not the same as Westbrook.

[I.R.Beast]

I didn't mean right off the bat. Just meant he would be scoring a lot more. Durant is such a gifted offensive player a 35 ppg season like Kobe wouldn't surprise me. The point was... he would be scoring a good amount more with a PG more willing to get him the ball.

Of course though you still have a tampon in your ass with every post I make... so I can't expect you to let an exaggeration slide without nitpicking.
how does his PPG going up to 35 help the team?....why do you want him taking on more offensive load, when westbrook relieves it?....it's plain pointless to me....

[I.R.Beast]

:oldlol:



The cheaper player plus a pick for Russell Westbrook, when the cheaper player is a better player than Russell Westbrook.




Westbrook is a combo guard, more than anything. He and Harden both starting would be fine. They don't need a true PG. They just need another playmaker (Harden).




And Rose and Westbrook are not that comparable. Westbrook handles the ball at the top of the key, like he doesn't know what he's gonna do, because he doesn't. It's not his fault, he was a 2 throughout college. He prefers to get on the wing or to work with another ball-handler. Derrick Rose, even if he's more of a scorer and doesn't necessarily do all the PG things, is clearly not the same as Westbrook.
That's why he averaged 8 assists 2 years in a row?

[Clippersfan86]

how does his PPG going up to 35 help the team?....why do you want him taking on more offensive load, when westbrook relieves it?....it's plain pointless to me....

It's simple.... Durant is more efficient. It's not like he can't handle more of an offensive load. I mean you have Westbrook playing hero ball in the 4th quarters while Durant (by far Thunder best player) is standing around waving his arms calling for the ball. It's okay to score to take pressure off Durant but ideally you want Durant scoring more, Westbrook less. Durant is a much smarter and more efficient scoring option.

[talkingconch]

Dont get me wrong, Russ is a beast and one of the best guards in the L. But I agree, he's more of an SG or combo type guard. Westbrook and Rose are compared because they are freak athletes and great scorers. But Rose is MILES AHEAD of Westbrook in the PG aspects. Rose still he isn't on the level of CP3, DWill, Nash, and Rondo level in terms of floor generalship and pure PG facets. But Rose is still very good at those facets.

I would want to keep D Rose at PG because of the impact he has on the game though. If I could get a bigger PG who can guards 2's effectively, I would really consider moving Westbrook to SG. Guys like AI and Ellis made the move to an undersized SG. AI had the advantage of playing with PG's who could guard SG's well. Ellis hasn't really had that chance. But I get Russ benefit of the doubt because he was an SG in college. So he is still trying to learn PG.

Guys like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, Payton, Tiny, CP3, DWill, Nash, etc. are all capable of putting up big time points and alpha dog shit. But they fufill the premium PG duties at the highest levels as well. U have guys like Kidd, Stockton, Rondo, Mark Jackson, etc. that are technicians at the premium PG duties and epic at it. But they aren't the scoring threat like the group I named earlier. Guys like Rose, Westbrook, Francis, Arenas, etc. are scoring PG's who have enough handle and passing ability to be a PG. But the way they see the game is more of a combo or even a SG type.

good post, exactly what i think

[RaininTwos]

I really wish Westbrook would end up in Orlando or somewhere so that everyone can see just how garbage the thunder would be without him.

[I.R.Beast]

It's simple.... Durant is more efficient. It's not like he can't handle more of an offensive load. I mean you have Westbrook playing hero ball in the 4th quarters while Durant (by far Thunder best player) is standing around waving his arms calling for the ball. It's okay to score to take pressure off Durant but ideally you want Durant scoring more, Westbrook less. Durant is a much smarter and more efficient scoring option.

quit exaggerating with the hero ball thing....it's getting old..watch games. If you really think KD is going to averegae 35 points on 50% from the field you are smoking crack. You have yet to explain how a pass first PG makes Durant's job easier, it may increases his touches, but it also increases the attention that the defense places on him because of how heavily featured he's become in the offense. Westbrook is 47& on the season...seems pretty efficient to me, definitely efficient enough. You people on these boards are so comical with your lack of understanding of basketball.

There absolutely no statistical evidence that points in the direction of those guys being better for the team.

[Whoah10115]

That's why he averaged 8 assists 2 years in a row?




If you wanna look at just the total assist numbers then yea, you're right and you win. It's a lot like that time Marbury was as much a passer and creator as Jason Kidd.




Your argument is about as valid as someone saying Rondo or CP3 would allow Durant to average 35PPG.

[Dbrog]

It really is a good analysis. The parts that really hit home for me are the plays where he gets himself in trouble complaining to the refs, loafing back on D after a fall, overplaying the ball on D for no reason, and throwing up long jumpers early in the shot clock.

That's low bball IQ, no leadership crap that I hate to see from a PG at any level. The kid has talent, but if he can't become a real PG, he would be better off moving to SG. And nothing I've seen tells me he's making any progress.

Pretty much this. However, I do agree with posters saying Coach Nick is basically cherrypicking games/plays. It's funny how he complains about WB taking shots with no one to rebound, but praises Durant when he does it and calls it "shots only Durant can make" :facepalm . However, I think everyone can agree WB has always had decision-making problems (hell...even Barkley was talking about this 2 yrs ago). He does also seem to have the Iverson-style defense that's basically, gamble almost 100% of the time and get stats that make you seem better than you are on D.

As far as not winning a chip goes, idk if I can agree on that. Ibaka has become an elite defender (mainly on the help) in the league and has a much improved mid-range J. I think he's one of the more underrated guys in the league. I mean, he sometimes looks like the best player on the Thunder (yes, even over Durant). Obviously Durant and Hardened Beard are having nice season as usual. This leaves only Perkins as a true weak link. Personally, I'm surprised he looks this bad with the Thunder. I mean, at least with the Cs he was a big body you could use. But now, he just looks slow and still just as bad on offense (what happened to that hook he was developing w/ the Cs btw?).

[ZenMaster]

I don't always agree with coach Nick, but how you can play in the NBA and not jump to the ball when your man passes it blows my mind, that's the kinda shit I deal with with my 15 year olds.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

You guys do realize that Durant is doing more isolation this year than ever before right? He's actually ahead of Russell Westbrook in that department.

Just because you get a PG that passes more doesn't mean Durant is going to put up 2006 Kobe numbers. You think D Will won't have to score? It isn't like Durant and Harden can be prime Shaq and Kobe and be a 2 man scoring punch.

[Al Thornton]

You guys do realize that Durant is doing more isolation this year than ever before right? He's actually ahead of Russell Westbrook in that department.

Just because you get a PG that passes more doesn't mean Durant is going to put up 2006 Kobe numbers. You think D Will won't have to score? It isn't like Durant and Harden can be prime Shaq and Kobe and be a 2 man scoring punch.

you trying to argue with the clippersfan brie. the clippersfan.

[I.R.Beast]

I really wish Westbrook would end up in Orlando or somewhere so that everyone can see just how garbage the thunder would be without him.
sometimes i wish the same thing, but i like him and KD, and they aer a great Duo

[liquidrage]

Every time any player that isn't the 1st option on their team takes a shot with > 5 seconds left on the shot clock Russell Westbrook dies a little bit more inside. And ISH starts a thread about it.

It's called the Westbrook. In fact, I have a hard time figuring out when any player other then the designated #1 option gets any shots in a game ever.

[chips93]

to the people who call him a shooting guard, do you really think that he would be more effective, off of the ball?

hes a beast, very unconventional, but a great player nonetheless, takes a lot of undue criticism, so much focus is paid to his flaws, and not enough to the great things that he brings to the table.

also, durant doesnt look for the ball enough in crunch time, its not all russ' fault.

[Brickz187]

I'm so tired of this notion that a point guard has to do nothing, but pass. Westbrook is a great PG and Thunder would be terrible without him, deal with it.

[Godzuki]

i think most people already knew this but OKC fans. they make excuses for Westbrook like Laker fans do Kobe. its funny to me how they all sort of hate on Durant if it ever ends up Durant vs Westbrook in arguments :wtf:

[Flamboyant]

Westbrook not being a true PG shouldn't be news to anyone. However, after some little arguments they've had, Westbrook decided to keep his ego in check, and is playing better basketball than last year.
Still, parting ways would've been good for both players AND the team, but it's really hard to let go of a player of Westbrooks caliber, knowing you'll likely get less value in return. But in NBA you never say never.

[Whoah10115]

to the people who call him a shooting guard, do you really think that he would be more effective, off of the ball?

hes a beast, very unconventional, but a great player nonetheless, takes a lot of undue criticism, so much focus is paid to his flaws, and not enough to the great things that he brings to the table.

also, durant doesnt look for the ball enough in crunch time, its not all russ' fault.



He's a combo guard. A combo guard that needs Harden on the floor with him. I'm certainly not ripping him for that. I only rip him for being genuinely stupid out there sometimes. That has nothing to do with him running point or playing off-ball.

[rfoster24]

That's uh funny, Coach Nick, because yes he fukkkin' is. and so is Rose and so is Wall for the dum people on this website.

[OKCThunderUP]

Rondo+pick or something for Westbrook would of been great for both teams.

You know nothing about basketball if you honestly believe that.

[chips93]

He's a combo guard. A combo guard that needs Harden on the floor with him. I'm certainly not ripping him for that. I only rip him for being genuinely stupid out there sometimes. That has nothing to do with him running point or playing off-ball.


the title of the thread is 'westbrook isnt a pg'. i think its entirely about him playong off of the ball.

[I.R.Beast]

I'm so tired of this notion that a point guard has to do nothing, but pass. Westbrook is a great PG and Thunder would be terrible without him, deal with it.
join the club....Points are still the most important part of the game.

[Whoah10115]

the title of the thread is 'westbrook isnt a pg'. i think its entirely about him playong off of the ball.



Doesn't mean it's not fair to rip him for being stupid, on or off-ball.

[chips93]

Doesn't mean it's not fair to rip him for being stupid, on or off-ball.


never said it was fair or not, its just off topic

the way i see it, westbrook makes tons of dumb plays, if he were a smarter player, hed be among the best players in the league. but people just want to look at what he does weong, and not all the great things he does.

if there was a player, who produced exactly as russ did, impact on wins, stats, everything, but he was only an average athlete, and was a much smarter player, and hes exactly as good as russ, im convinced, that this player would receive a lot more credit than russ does.

also, i think people put far too much emphasis on arbitrary positions.

westbrook helps his team win games. its not pretty, its not smart or savvy, but its effective

[LoneyROY7]

He made some fair points...but focused almost exclusively on the negatives in Westbrook's game. He made Russ out to be some inept scrub, which certainly isn't the case.

[imdaman99]

sounds like a bulls fan to me.

[Whoah10115]

never said it was fair or not, its just off topic

the way i see it, westbrook makes tons of dumb plays, if he were a smarter player, hed be among the best players in the league. but people just want to look at what he does weong, and not all the great things he does.

if there was a player, who produced exactly as russ did, impact on wins, stats, everything, but he was only an average athlete, and was a much smarter player, and hes exactly as good as russ, im convinced, that this player would receive a lot more credit than russ does.

also, i think people put far too much emphasis on arbitrary positions.

westbrook helps his team win games. its not pretty, its not smart or savvy, but its effective




It's part of the discussion. I was responding to what someone said and it's mentioned in the OP.





Either way, I don't think it's completely arbitrary. But I like him as a combo guard, geared more towards being a hybrid PG, who loves to push the break and run. And I think he and the team both NEED James Harden starting at the 2. It helps their half-court, it helps the other players. It helps everybody.

[TeamLAC]

You know nothing about basketball if you honestly believe that.
Because you're just a basketball genius, huh? :lol

[OKCThunderUP]

Because you're just a basketball genius, huh? :lol

Your reply is full of logical, flowing insight. Thank you for posting. I am now a smarter person having read your reply.

Edit: Anyone that has watched the Thunder since the Perkins trade knows the floor spacing is atrocious. It's a wonder he can get to the rim at all in all that traffic. If you add Rondo to the mix instead it's going to get even worse and would likely be devastating to the offense. Why anyone thinks Westbrook needs to pass more is completely beyond me. He has literally no one with a knock down jump shot except KD. Until Harden comes in, the entire offense flows through he and Durant. Nevermind that he's heading the #1 offense in the league and the 2nd most efficient halfcourt offense. You people act like he's Stephon Marbury or something and pioneering an offense that can't score buckets nor do them efficiently. Rather, the Thunder offense is among the league's best.

Westbrook is a top 10 player in this league. Anyone who thinks otherwise or believes he should be traded is a damn fool.

[Tenchi Ryu]

sounds like a bulls fan to me.
Look at this hating ass nikka
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Bulls stay in your mouth

[I.R.Beast]

Your reply is full of logical, flowing insight. Thank you for posting. I am now a smarter person having read your reply.

Edit: Anyone that has watched the Thunder since the Perkins trade knows the floor spacing is atrocious. It's a wonder he can get to the rim at all in all that traffic. If you add Rondo to the mix instead it's going to get even worse and would likely be devastating to the offense. Why anyone thinks Westbrook needs to pass more is completely beyond me. He has literally no one with a knock down jump shot except KD. Until Harden comes in, the entire offense flows through he and Durant. Nevermind that he's heading the #1 offense in the league and the 2nd most efficient halfcourt offense. You people act like he's Stephon Marbury or something and pioneering an offense that can't score buckets nor do them efficiently. Rather, the Thunder offense is among the league's best.

Westbrook is a top 10 player in this league. Anyone who thinks otherwise or believes he should be traded is a damn fool. couldnt agree more...The problem is people are so attached to this notion that a "true pg" is the answer to every question, and that type of point makes any team better, and that the fact that they pass alot makes them a better player. Well i tell them to look around. There's a reason the scoring PGs like Rose and Westbrook are on top teams, it's because of their scoring , not their passing. The same way Chris paul's scoring has been more valuable to the clippers than his passing. All this trade for Rondo Talk, when rondo is running the celtics into the ground with that Stagnant offense that hasn't been in the top 10 of offensive efficiency since he's been running the show

[Whoah10115]

Westbrook is a top 10 player in this league. Anyone who thinks otherwise or believes he should be traded is a damn fool.




This is what's annoying about some people. So if I pick 10 players above him I'm a damn fool?



Russell Westbrook is NOT top 10 in the NBA, period. And it's stupid to think that he's earned that status. But whatever. Think what you want, he plays on your team afterall.

[I.R.Beast]

This is what's annoying about some people. So if I pick 10 players above him I'm a damn fool?



Russell Westbrook is NOT top 10 in the NBA, period. And it's stupid to think that he's earned that status. But whatever. Think what you want, he plays on your team afterall.
yes he is, you cannot find 10 players better than him...you are stupid if u can

[TeamLAC]

Im always right.
:bowdown:

[I.R.Beast]

:bowdown:
hey!!, you edit my quote

[imdaman99]

Look at this hating ass nikka
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Bulls stay in your mouth
im not the dumbass that keeps searching "bulls" everyday hoping you can find ppl talking shit about them to reply to :lol

[Whoah10115]

yes he is, you cannot find 10 players better than him...you are stupid if u can



Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Howard
Durant
Paul
Nash (does he count, since he's 38?)
Williams
Dirk
Love
Pierce (He's old too, but when it comes down to it, still Pierce)
Parker (having a better season and has been doing this in the playoffs for a decade)
Rondo (when did Westbrook actually pass this guy or ever play better than he has in the freakin playoffs?)
Gasol (2nd round and this season means he's not allowed right?)
Ginobili (he was better than Westbrook last year, was playing his best ball when he got hurt this year)




I'm only mentioning guys who are flat out better and have been. Rondo was better than Westbrook last year, regardless of All-NBA. He's been great again this year. He's done it in the playoffs at a level that Westbrook has yet to do in the regular season. Give me the old guys, who play like they always have, but are older than they used to be and therefore needing to be moved off people's top 10's.



I'll take any of those guys RIGHT NOW and my team will go further, if it's between any of them or Westbrook. It be what it be baby.

[Tenchi Ryu]

im not the dumbass that keeps searching "bulls" everyday hoping you can find ppl talking shit about them to reply to :lol
But you are, you just search bulls shit to do the shit talking
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Fiasco]

Coach Nick really fell off. He used to do great 10 minute breakdowns of games.. and now he's taking 10 minutes to tell us something we already know.

Sad.

[imdaman99]

But you are, you just search bulls shit to do the shit talking
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
dude, that wasnt even funny, i dunno why you wrote an oldlol 4 times lol. its obvious i hate the bulls. but tell me, how often do bulls fans talk shit about westbrook? dont act like u guys love him, you cannot stand the fact that ppl sometimes compare him to rose. admit it.

[Nanners]

Westbrook is a top 10 player in this league. Anyone who thinks otherwise or believes he should be traded is a damn fool.


this x10.

[G-train]

Coach Nick really fell off. He used to do great 10 minute breakdowns of games.. and now he's taking 10 minutes to tell us something we already know.

Sad.

Well he does games regularly, including a few days ago.
This was an added breakdown as he was especially appalled at his play in this particular game.

[Tenchi Ryu]

dude, that wasnt even funny, i dunno why you wrote an oldlol 4 times lol. its obvious i hate the bulls. but tell me, how often do bulls fans talk shit about westbrook? dont act like u guys love him, you cannot stand the fact that ppl sometimes compare him to rose. admit it.
Of course he's compared to Rose with the similarities, they are the two most athletic PGs in the league.

And that's where the similarities end. That's not even hating, that's the truth.

[imdaman99]

Of course he's compared to Rose with the similarities, they are the two most athletic PGs in the league.

And that's where the similarities end. That's not even hating, that's the truth.
agreed. but lets not act like rose is on another planet compared to westbrook. they both sucked in the conference finals.

[Tenchi Ryu]

agreed. but lets not act like rose is on another planet compared to westbrook. they both sucked in the conference finals.
I don't consider it another planet when Westbrook is a top 10 player as well. Another planet is Rose vs Cole.

[donald_trump]

that dude is full of himself and simply a hater of westbrook.

you see him point things out that westbrook does wrong, even when he makes shots, then you see his comments on durant, who does the exact same thing in the video, but no negative comments. simply a "does things that only he (kevin durant) can do".

if you're going to point out that hes driving into double teams, and shooting when no one is in to rebound, be consistent.

[I.R.Beast]

Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Howard
Durant
Paul
Nash (does he count, since he's 38?)
Williams
Dirk
Love
Pierce (He's old too, but when it comes down to it, still Pierce)
Parker (having a better season and has been doing this in the playoffs for a decade)
Rondo (when did Westbrook actually pass this guy or ever play better than he has in the freakin playoffs?)
Gasol (2nd round and this season means he's not allowed right?)
Ginobili (he was better than Westbrook last year, was playing his best ball when he got hurt this year)




I'm only mentioning guys who are flat out better and have been. Rondo was better than Westbrook last year, regardless of All-NBA. He's been great again this year. He's done it in the playoffs at a level that Westbrook has yet to do in the regular season. Give me the old guys, who play like they always have, but are older than they used to be and therefore needing to be moved off people's top 10's.



I'll take any of those guys RIGHT NOW and my team will go further, if it's between any of them or Westbrook. It be what it be baby.


get the fock outta here with that trash, Parker is not better, either,and westbrook has been better than D-williams this season and chris paul and Dirk has not been Dirk this year.

[brahmabull117]

if derrick rose is a point guard, russell westbrook is a point guard.


Rose averages 8 assists a game - put him on the thunder and I think it would be closer to 9 assists a game



Rose is actually a very good decision maker and a VERY unselfish player

[Whoah10115]

get the fock outta here with that trash, Parker is not better, either,and westbrook has been better than D-williams this season and chris paul and Dirk has not been Dirk this year.



If you wanna be one of the those guys who changes his top 10 every half season, you go ahead. But then your lists have no substance.



Whether or not you want to disagree, Tony Parker is having a better season than Westbrook is. You don't agree, fine. But don't act like Westbrook left him in the dust. And Parker has been doing this for a decade, doing this in the Finals. There's nothing about this season that makes Westbrook clearly better than Parker. If you think he's been that much better than Parker has this season, then you're just talkin shit. And Tony Parker is still not better than Prime Ginobili (that guy who maybe had his best season last year and was playing the best I've ever seen him play before breaking his hand this year).



Steve Nash has played the exact same every year, since being with the Suns. The only difference is that his team is no longer any good and he is now 38. You think Westbrook has been clearly better than Paul this season? Nope. And more importantly, he's done nothing to allow anyone to rank him over Chris Paul. Dirk hasn't been Dirk, but he just went Dirk. So I'll keep the best player of the 2010-11 season over Russell Westbrook. Regardless of how he's played this season. Westbrook will easily stay behind your favorite PG. Rondo was better than him last year and even better in the playoffs, like always. So Westbrook playing better than Rondo this season does not make him a better player. He has something to overcome.


He's not top 10. And I could argue other PF's in there too.

[I.R.Beast]

If you wanna be one of the those guys who changes his top 10 every half season, you go ahead. But then your lists have no substance.



Whether or not you want to disagree, Tony Parker is having a better season than Westbrook is. You don't agree, fine. But don't act like Westbrook left him in the dust. And Parker has been doing this for a decade, doing this in the Finals. There's nothing about this season that makes Westbrook clearly better than Parker. If you think he's been that much better than Parker has this season, then you're just talkin shit. And Tony Parker is still not better than Prime Ginobili (that guy who maybe had his best season last year and was playing the best I've ever seen him play before breaking his hand this year).



Steve Nash has played the exact same every year, since being with the Suns. The only difference is that his team is no longer any good and he is now 38. You think Westbrook has been clearly better than Paul this season? Nope. And more importantly, he's done nothing to allow anyone to rank him over Chris Paul. Dirk hasn't been Dirk, but he just went Dirk. So I'll keep the best player of the 2010-11 season over Russell Westbrook. Regardless of how he's played this season. Westbrook will easily stay behind your favorite PG. Rondo was better than him last year and even better in the playoffs, like always. So Westbrook playing better than Rondo this season does not make him a better player. He has something to overcome.


He's not top 10. And I could argue other PF's in there too.
fock steve nash, his team is losing won't make the playoffs and are irrelevant. Tony Parker is not having a better season than West, You smokin crack....you're just a hater.

[Nanners]

Rose averages 8 assists a game - put him on the thunder and I think it would be closer to 9 assists a game



Rose is actually a very good decision maker and a VERY unselfish player

yeah rose assists would obviously go up on the thunder. the thunder is stacked completely with amazing finishers, especially guys who finish high percentage shots in the post. i can picture it now, perkins and collison throwing down the alley oops left and right.

[imdaman99]

yeah rose assists would obviously go up on the thunder. the thunder is stacked completely with amazing finishers, especially guys who finish high percentage shots in the post. i can picture it now, perkins and collison throwing down the alley oops left and right.
dude what are you smoking, rose would easily average 15 assists a game.
he would make a superstar out of perkins and ibaka just like he has done for boozer...

[Go Getter]

Not to mention Rose plays for an old-fashioned storied organization and RW plays for some new jacks.

Nothing wrong with it but it is a different flavor so to speak.

[Whoah10115]

fock steve nash, his team is losing won't make the playoffs and are irrelevant. Tony Parker is not having a better season than West, You smokin crack....you're just a hater.




If I was a hater I'd say they need a PG. I said they need Harden to be a starter and let him and Westbrook do what they do.




Tony Parker is a legit MVP candidate. The best player on the 2nd best record in the West. It's not Duncan anymore. Ginobili has missed 2/3 of the season.



Steve Nash's team is a half game out of the playoffs and even in the loss column with Houston. They will likely make it, with this guy not having a good enough team around him. And he's the same Nash.






Derrick Rose would average how many assists on the Thunder? 15? Yea, a playground PG (not a diss) is gonna average 15APG anywhere. He'd average less than he is now. Seriously. What the hell is wrong with some people.

[I.R.Beast]

If I was a hater I'd say they need a PG. I said they need Harden to be a starter and let him and Westbrook do what they do.




Tony Parker is a legit MVP candidate. The best player on the 2nd best record in the West. It's not Duncan anymore. Ginobili has missed 2/3 of the season.



Steve Nash's team is a half game out of the playoffs and even in the loss column with Houston. They will likely make it, with this guy not having a good enough team around him. And he's the same Nash.


so what...they wont make the playoffs...steve nash is overrated and always was....noone gives a shit about him...he needs to retire. Parker is good, but he's not westbrook.

[OKCThunderUP]

Wade
Nash (does he count, since he's 38?)
Williams
Dirk
Pierce (He's old too, but when it comes down to it, still Pierce)
Parker (having a better season and has been doing this in the playoffs for a decade)
Rondo (when did Westbrook actually pass this guy or ever play better than he has in the freakin playoffs?)
Gasol (2nd round and this season means he's not allowed right?)
Ginobili (he was better than Westbrook last year, was playing his best ball when he got hurt this year)


Westbrook is having a better season than all these guys. Putting guys in here based purely on reputation is idiotic and it's the same kind of thinking that gets GMs in the NBA fired.

[OKCThunderUP]

If I was a hater I'd say they need a PG. I said they need Harden to be a starter and let him and Westbrook do what they do.

Tony Parker is a legit MVP candidate. The best player on the 2nd best record in the West. It's not Duncan anymore. Ginobili has missed 2/3 of the season.

Steve Nash's team is a half game out of the playoffs and even in the loss column with Houston. They will likely make it, with this guy not having a good enough team around him. And he's the same Nash.

Derrick Rose would average how many assists on the Thunder? 15? Yea, a playground PG (not a diss) is gonna average 15APG anywhere. He'd average less than he is now. Seriously. What the hell is wrong with some people.

You're saying all this nonsensical crap as if Westbrook does not make a tangible, visible impact on the Thunder's success.

You don't have a leg to stand on in this debate. Just stop.

[Whoah10115]

You're saying all this nonsensical crap as if Westbrook does not make a tangible, visible impact on the Thunder's success.

You don't have a leg to stand on in this debate. Just stop.



I'm not gonna lie. You're annoying.



Only in your OKC world is no one else in the discussion.



Yes, my list, based on more than 45 regular season games, is going to get me fired.



Your ever-changing lists are more likely to keep you on the payroll. Like offering...what's his name? The CB, wait no Safety...the DB from the Cowboys...the one with two interceptions against the Steelers...Wha happened?




Reputation? I'm not gonna place Westbrook ahead of Dirk because he's been better so far this season. No, Russell Westbrook is nowhere near as good as Dirk Nowitzki. It's not an argument.

[Nanners]

if you would rather have 34 year old washed up paul pierce on your team over 23 year old russell westbrook you have basically gone full retard.

this kid has the full package - he is one of the best defenders at his position, and hes 5th in the nba in scoring. he is also a very capable passer, he has done it in the past.

he has yet to miss a single game in his career, which is not bad considering his reckless play style.

he is also an athletic freak on a level where only a small handful of elite nba players reside (lebron, dwight and rose).

[OKCThunderUP]

I'm not gonna lie. You're annoying.

Okay.


Your ever-changing lists are more likely to keep you on the payroll. Like offering...what's his name? The CB, wait no Safety...the DB from the Cowboys...the one with two interceptions against the Steelers...Wha happened?

Young, hard working players get better every year. Especially 23-year old PGs who played SG until entering the NBA. It's exactly why "Top 10 NBA Players" absolutely should change from year-to-year.

I hope I don't have to explain to you how stupid using 1 NFL game is in comparison to nearly a full NBA season.


Reputation? I'm not gonna place Westbrook ahead of Dirk because he's been better so far this season. No, Russell Westbrook is nowhere near as good as Dirk Nowitzki. It's not an argument.

Seriously? Dirk has been sucking shit ALL. YEAR. Dirk scores less points on a lower efficiency and his defense is not even remotely comparable to Westbrook's. Saying Dirk has been better than Westbrook this season is ****ing HILARIOUS.

Keep digging that hole though.

[Fiasco]

Well he does games regularly, including a few days ago.
This was an added breakdown as he was especially appalled at his play in this particular game.

I don't check YouTube anymore. Are those game breakdowns like 5 minutes still? Because that's what I'm talking about.

Don't really care to watch his Westbrook feature because anybody who watches basketball could tell you the same things. The quality of CN's videos have gone downhill ever since he started getting exposure. He had some really dumb video titled "Why Steve Nash won't win the title" or something incredibly stupid like that. After that I just stopped subscribing to his stuff.

[Whoah10115]

Okay.



Young, hard working players get better every year. Especially 23-year old PGs who played SG until entering the NBA. It's exactly why "Top 10 NBA Players" absolutely should change from year-to-year.

I hope I don't have to explain to you how stupid using 1 NFL game is in comparison to nearly a full NBA season.



Seriously? Dirk has been sucking shit ALL. YEAR. Dirk scores less points on a lower efficiency and his defense is not even remotely comparable to Westbrook's. Saying Dirk has been better than Westbrook this season is ****ing HILARIOUS.

Keep digging that hole though.



I think the hole is dug when you read and conclude whatever you want. I never said Dirk was having a better season. I said he's a better player. Those are two different things. If you can't comprehend that (and you can) then that's your problem.



And you're right, I don't want to use an NFL game. Do you know who Jerome James is? Well I watched him play against Sacramento in the playoffs a few years ago and not only was he great, you could see the skill. A beast in the low post. And I hoped he'd stay in Seattle. But he decided to leave and to hurt me specifically by going to the Knicks.



Point is, you wanna take a small sample and be conclusive then dig your own hole. Even pulling it off in the playoffs or even finals once shouldn't necessarily be definitive. But for certain, how Russell Westbrook has played in the 2011-12 regular season should not cause anyone to come to any conclusion where Russell Westbrook is a better player than Dirk Nowitzki.




And to the special guy who above you. I don't remember playing GM and saying I would take Russell Westbrook over 34 year old Paul Pierce. Most things are at least somewhat relative. But either way, having Pierce on my team from here on out and having him this second are two different things. And making a list from a GM's perspective is not quite the same as ranking where current players are today, right now, for this game.

[qrich]

get the fock outta here with that trash, Parker is not better, either,and westbrook has been better than D-williams this season and chris paul and Dirk has not been Dirk this year.

Westbrook being better than Chris Paul on this year is an absolute joke.

Westbrook is averaging 4.3 more points per game but is taking 19.2 shots per game to Chris Paul's 14.7. Paul is shooting 2.7% better as well. Include 3 pointers, Westbrook is 32.3% and making less than 1 a game to CP3s 39.3% and 1.35 a night. More steals for Chris Paul as well, with Westbrook only having an advantage on rebounds.

8.4 assists to 2.1 turnovers for Paul to 5.5 assists to 3.82 turnovers for Westbrook.

So how is Westbrook better again? 4.3 more points on an inferior % while taking 4.5 more shots per? 2.9 less assists with 1.72 more turnnovers?

[blacknapalm]

Westbrook being better than Chris Paul on this year is an absolute joke.

Westbrook is averaging 4.3 more points per game but is taking 19.2 shots per game to Chris Paul's 14.7. Paul is shooting 2.7% better as well. Include 3 pointers, Westbrook is 32.3% and making less than 1 a game to CP3s 39.3% and 1.35 a night. More steals for Chris Paul as well, with Westbrook only having an advantage on rebounds.

8.4 assists to 2.1 turnovers for Paul to 5.5 assists to 3.82 turnovers for Westbrook.

So how is Westbrook better again? 4.3 more points on an inferior % while taking 4.5 more shots per? 2.9 less assists with 1.72 more turnnovers?

it's not worth arguing with that guy man. he values points over everything else. he probably thinks jennings is a top 10 PG and steve francis is a hall of famer. why argue with a guy that says 'no one gives a shit' about nash?

[linZoMourning]

so what...they wont make the playoffs...steve nash is overrated and always was....noone gives a shit about him...he needs to retire. Parker is good, but he's not westbrook.

hes better then westbrook.

[PyrrhusX]

SMH.
Westbrook not being a point gaurd should really only be a concern for thuder fans but .... most of us, if not all, arnt concerned.

Sure he wont playmake as well as some other pointguards, but he is fufilling the role the thunder want him to. He isnt the best gaurd in the NBA, but he is definitely up there.

He gets way too much hate. The thunder are winning games still and are still topping the Western Conference - is the way he plays really that much of an issue?

[Jyap9675]

Harden should be PG, and westbrook as SG from bench just like Leandro barbosa back in 2006 suns days.

[9512]

I said this from the get go but they should've taken Stephen Curry and play him at PG and move RWB to SG.

But according to rumors, he wouldn't move to SG. What an egomaniac...

[I.R.Beast]

I said this from the get go but they should've taken Stephen Curry and play him at PG and move RWB to SG.

But according to rumors, he wouldn't move to SG. What an egomaniac...


what difference does it make???......alll this talking...the team is winning....It's about winning games not fitting a pre-set mold of what people think a position should be. All those true PGs u guys are praising are losing, and/or playing for teams that don't have the thunders record, and Westbrook is playing better than ALL OF THEM., so just sit down and shut the fock up. Westbrook is a beast.

[rep602]

what difference does it make???......alll this talking...the team is winning....It's about winning games not fitting a pre-set mold of what people think a position should be. All those true PGs u guys are praising are losing, and/or playing for teams that don't have the thunders record, and Westbrook is playing better than ALL OF THEM., so just sit down and shut the fock up. Westbrook is a beast.


As if to say you plug in another top 5 PG and that team doesn't stay the same or better.

Westbrook is playing how he can which is fine, but I don't think he should be the PG. Let him play the 2, which he easily could, harden primary ball handler, and that team gets way way way better. Quick enough to blow by defending 2s, and strong enough to defend them.

[swe_suns]

what difference does it make???......alll this talking...the team is winning....It's about winning games not fitting a pre-set mold of what people think a position should be. All those true PGs u guys are praising are losing, and/or playing for teams that don't have the thunders record, and Westbrook is playing better than ALL OF THEM., so just sit down and shut the fock up. Westbrook is a beast.

What difference does it make? Are you really that stupid to see that there is no room for improvment for Westbrook? The difference is that the Thunder would be even better if Westbrick didn't make those retarded plays. And believe it or not, there are two teams in the east that the thunder would probably lose against if Westbrick doesn't get his sh* together.