kobe chasing 02 MJ stats

[sekachu]

Kobe - 0.428%, 5.6 rpg, 4.7apg, 1.3spg, 0.4bpg, 28.7ppg

02 MJ - 0.416%, 5.7rpg, 5.2apg, 1.42spg, 0.43bpg, 22.9ppg

Really not much different except ppg. MJ played with scrub team though.

[STATUTORY]

28.7-22.9 = 5.8

not a lot of difference? one is a scoring leader the other one was getting roasted by young Kobe

[pauk]

Kobe - 0.428%, 5.6 rpg, 4.7apg, 1.3spg, 0.4bpg, 28.7ppg

02 MJ - 0.416%, 5.7rpg, 5.2apg, 1.42spg, 0.43bpg, 22.9ppg

Really not much different except shotjacking. MJ played with scrub team though.

fixed :cheers:

Jordan was also 38-39 years old at that time.... Kobe is 33... so basically Kobe today is as good as 39 year old Jordan was, only he shotjacks, congrats!

[AlphaWolf24]

meh...more like 96' MJ...29PPB 5ast 4REB 48%FG.....6% FG difference:confusedshrug:

[Craptors]

theardworthy?:


Source: Fisher in OKC to finalize new deal with Thunder
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/03/21/thunder-fisher/index.html

[ralph_i_el]

meh...more like 96' MJ...29PPB 5ast 4REB 48%FG.....6% FG difference:confusedshrug:

no biggie right?

[donald_trump]

some of you kobe bashers are ridiculous. mj in 02 isnt close to as good as kobe is now. not close. in fact i wouldnt put mj in the top 7 SG today with his 02 form.

[Mr. Jabbar]

He is still the best player in the league.

[SwooshReturns]

meh...more like 96' MJ...29PPB 5ast 4REB 48%FG.....6% FG difference:confusedshrug:
Same age, so appropriate comparison I say ...

What is PPB?

If you mean PPG, MJ averaged 30 ppg in 1996.

[Faptastrophe]

He is still the best player in the league.
:kobe: Being the scoring leader isn't the same as being the best player. You know that, right?

[sekachu]

some of you kobe bashers are ridiculous. mj in 02 isnt close to as good as kobe is now. not close. in fact i wouldnt put mj in the top 7 SG today with his 02 form.



No worry, i agree 02 Mj isn't as good as current kobe mostly due to ages and mentality difference.

[jlip]

Far better comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1998&p2=bryanko01&y2=2012)

[scm5]

02 MJ put up 22.1 FGA/gm to score 22.9

Kobe is putting up 23.8 to score 28.7.

I would also argue that Kobe is struggling through his injuries this season more than any other season. Forget the torn ligament in his shooting wrist. This is a shortened season and despite having his legs back, Kobe has been playing a ton of minutes for his age. Kobe has been performing worse and worse as the season goes on.

Kobe is just too stubborn and bull-headed to play less.

[RRR3]

He is still the best player in the league.
Dafuq? There isn't a single thing the current version of Kobe does better than LeBron outside of free throw shooting. He's also not better than Durant, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, or Derrick Rose. Hell, the way he's playing lately, he's dropping fast on the top 10 list of players in the NBA right now. He's not even top 5 at the moment.

[Ne 1]

Jordan was also 38-39 years old at that time.... Kobe is 33... so basically Kobe today is as good as 39 year old Jordan was

Eh, I always skip age and just compare or contrast players based on years in the league "NBA age" With some kids coming out early and some staying in college 3-4 years, it's impossible to fairly evaluate players based on actual age unless the situations are identical.

Also Kobe has put on a lot of miles in the past 10 years. Look at the minutes per game he was playing during the Shaq/Kobe era, especially the playoffs. For a couple of years there, he was hovering around 43-44mpg. One thing Jordan didn't have to combat was knee surgeries, which I think affected Kobe's athleticism especially the last one before the 2007 season. I think that two year break may have also benefited him. And don't forget the 3 year layoff before his Wizards stint. That time off is huge to an athlete mentally and physically.

[SwooshReturns]

Jordan was also 38-39 years old at that time.... Kobe is 33... so basically Kobe today is as good as 39 year old Jordan was, only he shotjacks, congrats!
Essentially, yes. I don't think Wizards MJ (even post knee injury) is doing much worse, if it all with Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol on the team instead of Jahidi White and Popeye Jones.

[Godzuki]

Dafuq? There isn't a single thing the current version of Kobe does better than LeBron outside of free throw shooting. He's also not better than Durant, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, or Derrick Rose. Hell, the way he's playing lately, he's dropping fast on the top 10 list of players in the NBA right now. He's not even top 5 at the moment.


yep. you exchange Kobe with another star of another team and they very likely get worse. Living and dying by his inconsistent mid range shots from game to game, that aren't even high% and he's taking at least 20+ of the shots a team has is just :facepalm

even worse he has 2 other top 5~ or so players at their positions on his team.

Laker fans can't make the excuse they lack a PG anymore, or even talent in general :rolleyes:

[sekachu]

Eh, I always skip age and just compare or contrast players based on years in the league "NBA age" With some kids coming out early and some staying in college 3-4 years, it's impossible to fairly evaluate players based on actual age unless the situations are identical.

Also Kobe has put on a lot of miles in the past 10 years. Look at the minutes per game he was playing during the Shaq/Kobe era, especially the playoffs. For a couple of years there, he was hovering around 43-44mpg. One thing Jordan didn't have to combat was knee surgeries, which I think affected Kobe's athleticism especially the last one before the 2007 season. I think that two year break may have also benefited him. And don't forget the 3 year layoff before his Wizards stint. That time off is huge to an athlete mentally and physically.


Wrong, the 3 years layoff isn't benefit MJ being at ages 38. He wasn't the same Michael Jordan during wizards time. His mentality and physically weren't the same as 96-98 MJ.

[SwooshReturns]

The two year break benefitted Jordan? Umm, he wasn't chilling at home watching Die Hard and eating sub sandwhiches and chips all day.

He was trying to reformat his body to play professional baseball. Do you know how difficult that is ??? He hadn't played since H.S. And all things considering, he wasn't that bad really.

How would that two year gap in '94 and '95 benefit Michael Jordan the basketball player? C'mon now.

It maybe helped him from a mental perspective. No longer being burned out on media scrutiny for the gambling stuff, and being motivated to win again. But even if he stays in '94 they win their 4th in a row, then lose the next season so either way he would be re-motivated from a competitive stand point for 1996.

The time off from '98 - 2002 works against Jordan at that age more than anything. He ballooned up in weight in 2000, and then worked his ass off a year and a half later to get in shape for the NBA.

It's a testement to him being a naturally superior athlete to Kobe. The guy before his knee injury at 38 and 39 had already exceeded the previous Wizards season win total and was putting up 25 / 5 / 5. And that is also considering his come back got set back by 2 months for broken ribs suffered at the hands of Ron Artest in a pick up game.

So let's say MJ plays until 2003 as a 40 year old, just plays basketball all the way through his career no breaks ala Kobe ... never leaves in '94 and '95 and plays in '99, 2000, and 2001 instead of becoming a fat out of shape old man.

Assuming MJ's stats before knee injury in 2002, and statistical regression ...

Using 1993 - 33 ppg

1994 - 32 ppg
1995 - 31 ppg

Using 1998 - 29 ppg as the template

1999 - 28 ppg
2000 - 27 ppg
2001 - 26 ppg

2002 - 25 ppg
2003 - 23 ppg

That is absurd career numbers, and I think if he didn't leave those 5 years on the table (two being in his absolute prime) he's be the all-time career scoring leader.

[Legends66NBA7]

The two year break benefitted Jordan? Umm, he wasn't chilling at home watching Die Hard and eating sub sandwhiches and chips all day.

Yeah, I've read his workouts with Tim Grover, where he literally was pushing himself too much, that it messed up his knees.

I think he got the main advice of comeback from his friend and another superstar in his sport, in Mario Lemieux.

Didn't help that Ron Artest cracked his ribs in a pickup game. Ron said that if he didn't do that "Jordan would have average 30 that year" or something like that....

[SwooshReturns]

Yeah, I've read his workouts with Tim Grover, where he literally was pushing himself too much, that it messed up his knees.

I think he got the main advice of comeback from his friend and another superstar in his sport, in Mario Lemieux.

Didn't help that Ron Artest cracked his ribs in a pickup game. Ron said that if he didn't do that "Jordan would have average 30 that year" or something like that....
Well I was reffering to the '94 and '95 breaks from the NBA

But yea, Artest said that ... anyone acting like a 36, 37, and 38 year old man becoming a fat ass and then trying to get back in shape to be an elite NBA athlete was a good thing is utterly ridiculous.

Artest also said 38 year old Jordan was the best player he ever had to guard.

[824]

no biggie right?

It's actually not, but pretend like you have any sort of real value of what that 6% represents in actual terms.

[LA_Showtime]

What's retarded is that Kobe's more than capable of shooting 45% or better. He's an idiot; he doesn't know what a bad shot is and it's ****ing killing him.

Here's the main difference: Jordan was putting up those numbers despite of everything, whereas Kobe, despite everything, is putting up those numbers. <--- *That was some philosophical shit right there

[DMAVS41]

The defense and rules should also be factored in. MJ on the Wizards was dealing with not only much less help from his teammates, but having to play in one of the toughest defensive eras the NBA has seen.

The rules now are completely different and need to be brought up.

[SwooshReturns]

What's retarded is that Kobe's more than capable of shooting 45% or better. He's an idiot; he doesn't know what a bad shot is and it's ****ing killing him.
He knows, the guy is clearly very intelligent. Sometimes maybe too smart for his own good. It's just on the court not a single damn is given.

[Leviathon1121]

It's actually not, but pretend like you have any sort of real value of what that 6% represents in actual terms.

Actually it really is large, only a certain fan base likes to act like it is not.

How many games this season have the Lakers lost now with Kobe shooting at a 30'ish % clip? With someone shooting darn near 50% for an entire season, you do not get many games like that and your team has a far better chance of not losing to teams they should be beating, helping them secure home court advantage for championship runs.

But yah, no big deal at all. :facepalm

[SwooshReturns]

MJ on the Wizards was dealing with not only much less help from his teammates, but having to play in one of the toughest defensive eras the NBA has seen.
Meh, I think the 90's were better in terms of tougher defensive era.

There was still no hand check in the early 2000's. It's just ever since 2006 you can't even breathe on players without a foul being called.

The free-throws that have been handed out since the start of the 2005 - 2006 season have been utterly ridiculous.

Sometimes they let them play ... that 2008 Finals they called nadda.

[Da_Realist]

Still holding on to that dream that Kobe is chasing MJ. Now you're reaching for the "02" version. I guess any version will do :oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

The defense and rules should also be factored in. MJ on the Wizards was dealing with not only much less help from his teammates, but having to play in one of the toughest defensive eras the NBA has seen.

The rules now are completely different and need to be brought up.

That is retarded. No one ever brings that shit up when we're talking about Magic or Bird. It is only brought up when Kobe's the subject, and it's hardly ever positive.

[DMAVS41]

Meh, I think the 90's were better in terms of tougher defensive era.

There was still no hand check in the early 2000's. It's just ever since 2006 you can't even breathe on players without a foul being called.

The free-throws that have been handed out since the start of the 2005 - 2006 season have been utterly ridiculous.

Sometimes they let them play ... that 2008 Finals they called nadda.

Well, i don't want to debate the toughest defensive era.

What i do know is that the current rules make it far easier for perimeter players to score than they did back in 02. Its a factor. How big of one is up for debate...but its definitely worth something.

[DMAVS41]

That is retarded. No one ever brings that shit up when we're talking about Magic or Bird. It is only brought up when Kobe's the subject, and it's hardly ever positive.

Retarded? Please answer:

Is it easier to score from the perimeter now than it was back in 02?

[LA_Showtime]

Yes, but there is no measuring stick and is only used by idiots who can't think of any other reasons to fit their agenda. It is impossible to judge how the rules have changed perimeter scoring.

And come on, it's not like Kobe drives to the rim all that often anyway. The only reason he is shooting so poorly is because he's an idiot and continues to take fadeaway jump shots and contested threes.

[DMAVS41]

Yes, but there is no measuring stick and is only used by idiots who can't think of any other reasons to fit their agenda. It is impossible to judge how the rules have changed perimeter scoring.

And come on, it's not like Kobe drives to the rim all that often anyway. The only reason he is shooting so poorly is because he's an idiot and continues to take fadeaway jump shots and contested threes.

Agenda? There is no agenda in pointing out a simple fact. How much it hurts/helps is debatable. But the simple fact is that the rules were changed to help perimeter players score.

And logic tells me that less physical play would be exactly what a 39 year old wing player would want.

[Da_Realist]

The two year break benefitted Jordan? Umm, he wasn't chilling at home watching Die Hard and eating sub sandwhiches and chips all day.

He was trying to reformat his body to play professional baseball. Do you know how difficult that is ??? He hadn't played since H.S. And all things considering, he wasn't that bad really.

How would that two year gap in '94 and '95 benefit Michael Jordan the basketball player? C'mon now.

It maybe helped him from a mental perspective. No longer being burned out on media scrutiny for the gambling stuff, and being motivated to win again. But even if he stays in '94 they win their 4th in a row, then lose the next season so either way he would be re-motivated from a competitive stand point for 1996.

The time off from '98 - 2002 works against Jordan at that age more than anything. He ballooned up in weight in 2000, and then worked his ass off a year and a half later to get in shape for the NBA.

It's a testement to him being a naturally superior athlete to Kobe. The guy before his knee injury at 38 and 39 had already exceeded the previous Wizards season win total and was putting up 25 / 5 / 5. And that is also considering his come back got set back by 2 months for broken ribs suffered at the hands of Ron Artest in a pick up game.

So let's say MJ plays until 2003 as a 40 year old, just plays basketball all the way through his career no breaks ala Kobe ... never leaves in '94 and '95 and plays in '99, 2000, and 2001 instead of becoming a fat out of shape old man.

Assuming MJ's stats before knee injury in 2002, and statistical regression ...

Using 1993 - 33 ppg

1994 - 32 ppg
1995 - 31 ppg

Using 1998 - 29 ppg as the template

1999 - 28 ppg
2000 - 27 ppg
2001 - 26 ppg

2002 - 25 ppg
2003 - 23 ppg

That is absurd career numbers, and I think if he didn't leave those 5 years on the table (two being in his absolute prime) he's be the all-time career scoring leader.

And you left off the 85-86 season.

There's only one certain group of fans that act like leaving at the height of his game for two years then coming back to reclaim his spot was somehow beneficial. Can anyone name another guy that pulled it off? Muhammad Ali? He might be the only other person. I know Tyson was in prison for 3 years but when he returned he clearly wasn't the same guy. Who else took at least two years off then returned to dominate his sport? Sugar Ray Leonard??? I can't think of anyone else.

[SwooshReturns]

There's only one certain group of fans that act like leaving at the height of his game for two years then coming back to reclaim his spot was somehow beneficial. Can anyone name another guy that pulled it off? Muhammad Ali? He might be the only other person. I know Tyson was in prison for 3 years but when he returned he clearly wasn't the same guy. Who else took at least two years off then returned to dominate his sport? Sugar Ray Leonard??? I can't think of anyone else.
Ali I think was the only one who couldn't compete during his absolute PRIME like MJ ...

But yes, utterly amazing.

[Da_Realist]

Ali I think was the only one who couldn't compete during his absolute PRIME like MJ ...

But yes, utterly amazing.

Even Barkley didn't believe he could do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VnSGTr6Yg&t=53m58s

[SFMF]

This is a clever trap set by OP.

You should never even compare a 40 year old to a 33 year old.

You are fooled by the trap if you are already bringing up the stats.

[Da_Realist]

The only reason he is shooting so poorly is because he's an idiot and continues to take fadeaway jump shots and contested threes.

^^ The most honest Kobe (and Lakers) fan on ISH. Kobe's always had the talent to shoot better...no matter the "era" or the defense.

[White Mamba]

What's retarded is that Kobe's more than capable of shooting 45% or better. He's an idiot; he doesn't know what a bad shot is and it's ****ing killing him.

Here's the main difference: Jordan was putting up those numbers despite of everything, whereas Kobe, despite everything, is putting up those numbers. <--- *That was some philosophical shit right there

Showtime, kobe's shooting 47% at home, you may think his bad road shooting as to do with the coaching and the great road team the lakers as been this season, his home shooting proves he still can shot good fg%, if only he had a good partner on the road other then bynum maybe he can play less minutes have better legs to finish games.

[LA_Showtime]

Showtime, kobe's shooting 47% at home, you may think his bad road shooting as to do with the coaching and the great road team the lakers as been this season, his home shooting proves he still can shot good fg%, if only he had a good partner on the road other then bynum maybe he can play less minutes have better legs to finish games.

Of course he can still shoot well. Kobe's declining, obviously, but he's still got enough in the tank to put up 22-28 points per game at his usual averages.

I wouldn't blame Brown for Kobe's problems. Kobe has more responsibilities this season and he just hasn't handled it well. Instead of picking and choosing his spots, he's forced the issue and had a lot of horrific games. He's probably lost the Lakers 6-10 games alone this year.

[Nevaeh]

no biggie right?

I can't believe he didn't say .6%, like he always does. :oldlol:

Go head Alpha Wolf, witcho truth tellin' self.
:pimp:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

^^ The most honest Kobe (and Lakers) fan on ISH. Kobe's always had the talent to shoot better...no matter the "era" or the defense.

I really don't think he does. Kobe just doesnt have the BBIQ in-terms of WHEN to turn it on and WHEN not to, when to shoot and when not to, when to pass and play defense (well, in his case..when not to take plays off). College would have helped him not only become a better scorer and decision maker, but a person and leader.

[White Mamba]

Of course he can still shoot well. Kobe's declining, obviously, but he's still got enough in the tank to put up 22-28 points per game at his usual averages.

I wouldn't blame Brown for Kobe's problems. Kobe has more responsibilities this season and he just hasn't handled it well. Instead of picking and choosing his spots, he's forced the issue and had a lot of horrific games. He's probably lost the Lakers 6-10 games alone this year.

I blame brown for the minutes, he said himself kobe asked to play 33MPG like last year but brown wants him to play more for a better record, to me its bad coaching, phil won 57 games with kobe playing 33MPG but when kobe playing 40MPG he is due for off nights.

sure, kobe needs to play smarter, but its harder to do it when only bynum is willing to play hard (on road games).

and to me kobe ISO in the end of games is 100% brown. he don't think when it come to offense.

[Glide2keva]

28.7-22.9 = 5.8

not a lot of difference? one is a scoring leader the other one was getting roasted by young Kobe
Love when people say stupid shit like this.

[Heavincent]

Dafuq? There isn't a single thing the current version of Kobe does better than LeBron outside of free throw shooting. He's also not better than Durant, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, or Derrick Rose. Hell, the way he's playing lately, he's dropping fast on the top 10 list of players in the NBA right now. He's not even top 5 at the moment.

Stop trolling. Kobe is definitely better than Wade and he's better than CP3 and Rose too.

Wade is one of the most overrated players on ISH.

[SlayerEnraged]

What a silly ass comparison. Whats next, Kobe was better in 2001 than in 2002 because his numbers were better in 01? :rolleyes:

[bwink23]

some of you kobe bashers are ridiculous. mj in 02 isnt close to as good as kobe is now. not close. in fact i wouldnt put mj in the top 7 SG today with his 02 form.


02 MJ shot better from 16-23ft than a prime 23,24 year-old Kobe Bryant...In fact, on near comparable attempts, old-ass MJ shot better from 16-23ft than Kobe during BOTH the 2002 and 2003 seasons....

Keep in mind, old-ass MJ couldn't attack the basket, so he was getting 4-5 FT's a game.

NEXT.....:biggums:

[AlphaWolf24]

02 MJ shot better from 16-23ft than a prime 23,24 year-old Kobe Bryant...In fact, on near comparable attempts, old-ass MJ shot better from 16-23ft than Kobe during BOTH the 2002 and 2003 seasons....

Keep in mind, old-ass MJ couldn't attack the basket, so he was getting 4-5 FT's a game.

NEXT.....:biggums:


You mean MJ who was younger then Kidd and Grant Hill

[bwink23]

Showtime, kobe's shooting 47% at home, you may think his bad road shooting as to do with the coaching and the great road team the lakers as been this season, his home shooting proves he still can shot good fg%, if only he had a good partner on the road other then bynum maybe he can play less minutes have better legs to finish games.


What's the excuse for 2006:

Home = 37.0ppg on 47.3%FG, 38.9% from 3.
Road = 33.8ppg on 42.7%FG, 30.7% from 3.

Road Kobe in 2006 is very similar to Kobe productivity in 2012, minus even more ballhogging.

[bwink23]

You mean MJ who was younger then Kidd and Grant Hill


No, i mean MJ who was fat, slow, old, could barely jump....and 16 years older than a prime Kobe Bryant.....shooting BETTER than him from 16-23ft.

That's what i meant...

(opens pocket)

[eliteballer]

No, i mean MJ who was fat, slow, old, could barely jump....and 16 years older than a prime Kobe Bryant.....shooting BETTER than him from 16-23ft.

That's what i meant...

(opens pocket)

Prove it...

[Kurosawa0]

The Kobe we're seeing now isn't the old Wizards Jordan. It's the 1999-2001 Jordan that was retired. He's on his way down and not really one of the top 5 players in the league anymore. Both could play at that level occasionally, but Jordan wouldn't have been as good as a Duncan, Shaq, Iverson or a young Kobe in that time period. Just like how Kobe now isn't consistently on the level of LeBron, Rose or Durant.

[SwooshReturns]

The Kobe we're seeing now isn't the old Wizards Jordan. It's the 1999-2001 Jordan that was retired. He's on his way down and not really one of the top 5 players in the league anymore. Both could play at that level occasionally, but Jordan wouldn't have been as good as a Duncan, Shaq, Iverson or a young Kobe in that time period. Just like how Kobe now isn't consistently on the level of LeBron, Rose or Durant.
Jordan was the best player in the league, quite easily at 35 in 1998.

You mean to tell me the very next year he would drop out of top five? Fukk outta here.

He would have hovered in the top five to top ten from 1999 - 2001, barring any sort of 2002 caliber knee injury.

[ganja0710]

fixed :cheers:

Jordan was also 38-39 years old at that time.... Kobe is 33... so basically Kobe today is as good as 39 year old Jordan was, only he shotjacks, congrats!
:roll:

Still mad brah?

[tmacattack33]

You do know that using 2002 isn't really fair to MJ since it was his first year back after a 4 year hiatus right?

Use MJ's 2003 stats and see what happens.

[Round Mound]

Dafuq? There isn't a single thing the current version of Kobe does better than LeBron outside of free throw shooting. He's also not better than Durant, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, or Derrick Rose. Hell, the way he's playing lately, he's dropping fast on the top 10 list of players in the NBA right now. He's not even top 5 at the moment.

He is also Not Better than Dirk

How Lucky are some Players...He gets to Play With Prime Shaq and Now Has a Twin-Tower System in Bynum: The 2nd or 3d Best Center in the Game and a Top 4-5 CF or PF in Pau Gasol

[SwooshReturns]

He is also Not Better than Dirk

How Lucky are some Players...He gets to Play With Prime Shaq and Now Has a Twin-Tower System in Bynum: The 2nd or 3d Best Center in the Game and a Top 4-5 CF or PF in Pau Gasol
Do you type in bold font because you know everyone naturally doesn't listen to your opinions or read your posts?

[bwink23]

Prove it...

[B]Jordan 2002

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=jordami01&year_id=2002&shot_distance=16-3P

16-23 ft = 216/528 , 40.9%FG

Jordan 2003

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?&player_id=jordami01&year_id=2003&shot_distance=16-3P

16-23 ft = 282/665 , 42.4%FG


Kobe 2002

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=bryanko01&year_id=2002&shot_distance=16-3P

16-23ft = 234/605 , 38.7%FG

Kobe 2003

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?&player_id=bryanko01&year_id=2003&shot_distance=16-3P

16-23ft = 290/705 , 41.1%FG


Jordan 2002, 40.9% > Kobe 2002, 38.7%FG

Jordan 2003, 42.2%FG > Kobe 2003, 41.1%FG

COMBINED:


Jordan = 498/1193 = 41.7% midrange.
Kobe = 524/1310 = 40.0% midrange.



PROVEN....:pimp:

[Round Mound]

Do you type in bold font because you know everyone naturally doesn't listen to your opinions or read your posts?

You just read my post so stfup. I type in bold because thats my style get over it and live on

[SwooshReturns]

You just read my post so stfup. I type in bold because thats my style get over it and live on
I actually didn't, I just quoted you so I could ask my question ...

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe will be judged in the playoffs. Both he and lebron at this point can do nothing during a regular season to affect their legacy more than either a good or bad playoff run will.


Regular season truly doesn't matter for kobe and bron anymore. not to bring bron in a kobr thread but its true they are both in similar situations where the legacy now hinges on playoffs and finals, not reg season... pointless to discuss

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe will be judged in the playoffs. Both he and lebron at this point can do nothing during a regular season to affect their legacy more than either a good or bad playoff run will.

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd? :oldlol: ). Yet despite this, we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan. Kobe stans are IMMUNE to evidence and poor performances.

[SwooshReturns]

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd?).
Yikes.

So much for that eliteballer / AlphaWolf24 theory (myth) of Kobe having to face tougher, superior athletic, taller and better defenders.

Given Jason Kidd is old, slow, not athletic, and only like 6'1 ... 6'4 is his exaggerated NBA height.

:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan.

You mean the trolls, right ?

[Leviathon1121]

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd? :oldlol: ). Yet despite this, we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan. Kobe stans are IMMUNE to evidence and poor performances.

Well said. Can you imagine if Jordan had on his resume the 2004 finals, the 2008 finals with the 24 point choke at home, or the sweep with home court advantage? Those three instances would have been picked apart to the bone by people like Alphawolf and used as concrete evidence in their hypocritical copy/paste arguments.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

What's retarded is that Kobe's more than capable of shooting 45% or better. He's an idiot; he doesn't know what a bad shot is and it's ****ing killing him.

Here's the main difference: Jordan was putting up those numbers despite of everything, whereas Kobe, despite everything, is putting up those numbers. <--- *That was some philosophical shit right there
I agree, sometimes i just SMFH when I watch him take certain shots. He knows the right way to play, he knows how to get his teammates involved, and control the flow of the game. That's just not his first choice of playing.

[SwooshReturns]

That's just not his first choice of playing.
That is the bottom line. Period.

So does Kobe want to win at all costs, or win his way playing hero ball for the sake of his legacy and perception?

Not realizing the 1st option makes you the better player, the better teammate, and a winner. Thus automatically improving your legacy.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd? :oldlol: ). Yet despite this, we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan. Kobe stans are IMMUNE to evidence and poor performances.


Yikes.

So much for that eliteballer / AlphaWolf24 theory (myth) of Kobe having to face tougher, superior athletic, taller and better defenders.

Given Jason Kidd is old, slow, not athletic, and only like 6'1 ... 6'4 is his exaggerated NBA height.

:oldlol:
did you watch the series? he was swarmed every time he got close to the paint.
game 4 was a blowout so ofcourse that lowered his stats. And not only that he was injured, he even considered retirement before getting that knee surgery.

and '02 or '03 MJ isn't close to Kobe right now. 23 ppg on 22 shots...lol

[SwooshReturns]

did you watch the series?
I did watch the series ... it didn't help Gasol turned it in for the season back in December, and Jackson didn't wake up from his slumber realizing his next ring wasn't within grasp until Bynum body slammed poor little JJ Barea.

But you're going to sit there and agree with the eliteballer / AlphaWolf24 nonsense they use to try to put down MJ and prop up poor Kobe performances?

He got swarmed, it happens to great players. Needs to find a way to get it done period.

Same thing happened to D. Rose w/ a superior defensive team. It wasn't just one man, but I still acknowledge both of them played bad.

I've never seen MJ have that bad of a playoff series.

[bwink23]

did you watch the series? he was swarmed every time he got close to the paint.
game 4 was a blowout so ofcourse that lowered his stats. And not only that he was injured, he even considered retirement before getting that knee surgery.

and '02 or '03 MJ isn't close to Kobe right now. 23 ppg on 22 shots...lol


Jordan's effective FG% was 45% when he was 40....Kobe's is currently 46% at 33...:confusedshrug:

[Da_Realist]

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd? :oldlol: ). Yet despite this, we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan. Kobe stans are IMMUNE to evidence and poor performances.

MJ would have eaten Kidd for dinner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYsbKVADUc) :pimp:

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ would have eaten Kidd for dinner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYsbKVADUc) :pimp:
with a career ending type injuring and 48,000 career logded minutes, and coming off of winning back to back championships?

[SwooshReturns]

MJ would have eaten Kidd for dinner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYsbKVADUc) :pimp:
Jason Kidd: The best player I ever played against ... and hardest to guard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g

:facepalm @ these delusional Laker girls.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe went out like a bitch last year in a sweep by a less talented team, and he played like shit too (22.8 ppg on 44.6% FG against 73 year old Jason Kidd? :oldlol: ). Yet despite this, we still have to endure Kobe stans daily who act like he's as good as or better than Jordan. Kobe stans are IMMUNE to evidence and poor performances.

where the balls is anyone saying hes as good or better than jordan?

[Legends66NBA7]

where the balls is anyone saying hes as good or better than jordan?

It would have only come from a troll, which is the sad part.

I've never got that answered to me as well... I'm like show me these people claiming that Kobe is as good or better than Jordan and let me see if their not trolls.

Any answer ? *pure silence*

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jason Kidd: The best player I ever played against ... and hardest to guard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g

:facepalm @ these delusional Laker girls.
post #1254743 by a jordan jocker saying jordan is the GOAT

[Da_Realist]

with a career ending type injuring and 48,000 career logded minutes, and coming off of winning back to back championships?

Yes. Jason Kidd played almost as many minutes himself at that point. He was OLD.

*edit -- Actually Kidd played MORE

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes. Jason Kidd played almost as many minutes himself at that point. He was OLD.
He was guarded by Kidd on the PERIMETER. When Kobe got close it wasn't just Kidd

[RazorBaLade]

It would have only come from a troll, which is the sad part.

I've never got that answered to me as well... I'm like show me these people claiming that Kobe is as good or better than Jordan and let me see if their not trolls.

Any answer ? *pure silence*

Seriously... where are these people at. In 2 years or whatever I've been on here I haven't seen one serious post about it.

[Da_Realist]

He was guarded by Kidd on the PERIMETER. When Kobe got close it wasn't just Kidd

He would have killed old man Kidd. Driving to the hoop, posting him up, shooting over him... No way does Jason Kidd (and whatever help) make MJ look as pathetic as Kobe last year in an embarrassing sweep even with the advantage of homecourt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He would have killed old man Kidd. Driving to the hoop, posting him up, shooting over him... No way does Jason Kidd (and whatever help) make MJ look as pathetic as Kobe last year in an embarrassing sweep even with the advantage of homecourt.
Kobe was injured though

[SwooshReturns]

Kobe was injured though
:oldlol:

[Leviathon1121]

Kobe was injured though

Excuse #1254743 by a Kobe stan.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe was injured though

As always :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

Excuse #1254743 by a Kobe stan.


As always :facepalm

Damn, I knew that was coming too.

:oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

He would have killed old man Kidd. Driving to the hoop, posting him up, shooting over him... No way does Jason Kidd (and whatever help) make MJ look as pathetic as Kobe last year in an embarrassing sweep even with the advantage of homecourt.

if kobe is completely responsible for being sweeped pathetically do you applaud him for winning 5 titles by himself?

[OldSchoolBBall]

did you watch the series? he was swarmed every time he got close to the paint.
game 4 was a blowout so ofcourse that lowered his stats. And not only that he was injured, he even considered retirement before getting that knee surgery.

and '02 or '03 MJ isn't close to Kobe right now. 23 ppg on 22 shots...lol

'02 Jordan pre-injury is certainly close to Kobe now. 25+/6+/5+/43% FG on a garbage team in a better defensive league where FT's weren't handed out like they are today. Had an absolutely garbage team on pace for 42-45 wins after winning just 19 games the year prior. That's impact that I'm not sure that this year's Kobe has.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He was injured though. How is that an excuse. He even got surgery, accoring to A-Rod Kobe considered retirement.

:facepalm

[RazorBaLade]

'02 Jordan pre-injury is certainly close to Kobe now. 25+/6+/5+/43% FG on a garbage team in a better defensive league where FT's weren't handed out like they are today. Had an absolutely garbage team on pace for 42-45 wins after winning just 19 games the year prior. That's impact that I'm not sure that this year's Kobe has.

Why don't you cherry pick kobes best months this year and compare?

stop being a ****ing ***. you dont have anything to worry with kobe passing jordan just enjoy the fact that you got to see 10 years of the real deal and 15 years of a pretty good imitation. that should be a dream come true

[Ne 1]

old man Kidd.

Old man Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands. He has never been a super quick defender. What Kidd does is uses his strength and IQ to play great defense more than anything else. Look at what he did to prime LeBron in the Finals. Kidd is still a very good defender. smh at downplay his impact by saying he's "old".

[SwooshReturns]

'02 Jordan pre-injury is certainly close to Kobe now. 25+/6+/5+/43% FG on a garbage team in a better defensive league where FT's weren't handed out like they are today. Had an absolutely garbage team on pace for 42-45 wins after winning just 19 games the year prior. That's impact that I'm not sure that this year's Kobe has.
How does 2002 Wizards MJ pre-knee injury do with Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum instead of Jahidi White and Popeye Jones?

[Leviathon1121]

if kobe is completely responsible for being sweeped pathetically do you applaud him for winning 5 titles by himself?

He is not completely responsible, but for someone who is as good as his fans say he is, I think much more is expected of him, especially when his team is favored and has home court advantage.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why don't you cherry pick kobes best months this year and compare?

stop being a ****ing ***. you dont have anything to worry with kobe passing jordan just enjoy the fact that you got to see 10 years of the real deal and 15 years of a pretty good imitation. that should be a dream come true
I don't know why JJs are so insecure? Jordan is the GOAT.

[RazorBaLade]

He is not completely responsible, but for someone who is as good as his fans say he is, I think much more is expected of him, especially when his team is favored and has home court advantage.

But you should still credit him for 5 earned titles. You don't mention that in your posts do you? We know he's not better or the same as jordan..... But to only harp on his failures makes him seem much worse than he is. We're still talking about a top 10 player of all time. What is the point of making him seem worse than he is?

[Da_Realist]

Old man Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands. He has never been a super quick defender. What Kidd does is uses his strength and IQ to play great defense more than anything else. Look at what he did to prime LeBron in the Finals. Kidd is still a very good defender. smh at downplay his impact by saying he's "old".

So? Young, old, or dead, he wouldn't have been able to keep up with MJ. And he was OLD. Came in the league in 95. Last year was the 2011 NBA Finals.

[OldSchoolBBall]

where the balls is anyone saying hes as good or better than jordan?

If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said or implied as much on several occasions.

[Leviathon1121]

Old man Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands. He has never been a super quick defender. What Kidd does is uses his strength and IQ to play great defense more than anything else. Look at what he did to prime LeBron in the Finals. Kidd is still a very good defender. smh at downplay his impact by saying he's "old".

It is one of the cornerstone's of the Kobe Bryant fan argument that Jordan never once saw the defenders with the length and athleticism that every SG has today.

IQ, positioning, awareness, anticipation, none of it matters when the downplay Jordan agenda is in full swing. It is 100% about the size/athletic ability.

So when something like years sweep happens, well, it is simply fun to rub it in the troll's faces.

[SwooshReturns]

If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said or implied as much on several occasions.
AlphaWolf24, and eliteballer have flat out said it ...

[RazorBaLade]

If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said or implied as much on several occasions.

you are mistaken. And I've never seen anyone here say it besides alphawolf and it was during an incredible bout of trolling, he usually has kobe as the 2nd greatest player behind jordan.

while ridiculous, that 1 poster should not justify this defense force.

[RazorBaLade]

AlphaWolf24, and eliteballer have flat out said it ...

holy shit two people!!!!!! Time to log on and defend jordan over kobe in front of 50 dudes for something those 2 idiots said one that is a notorious troll!!!!!


Sounds like a good ****ing time

[Leviathon1121]

But you should still credit him for 5 earned titles. You don't mention that in your posts do you? We know he's not better or the same as jordan..... But to only harp on his failures makes him seem much worse than he is. We're still talking about a top 10 player of all time. What is the point of making him seem worse than he is?


Really, picking and choosing particular instances where a player has failed to completely downplay his career, this sounds so familiar...

Whether you like it or not, this board has had hoards of Bryant stans doing this for years, spamming copy/pasted based arguments.

Never seemed to bother the Laker fans though...

[Legends66NBA7]

AlphaWolf24, and eliteballer have flat out said it ...

Who are both trolls. Which is my point.

Their morons who pretty much ruin the board. Anbody with their head on straight know the real deal.

[RazorBaLade]

Really, picking and choosing particular instances where a player has failed to completely downplay his career, this sounds so familiar...

Whether you like it or not, this board has had hoards of Bryant stans doing this for years, spamming copy/pasted based arguments.

Never seemed to bother the Laker fans though...

So these so called hoards of stans that do this which you still haven't pointed out to me are why YOU have also started to act like a ******?

What happened to just being right and not an idiot and not being a *** cuz someone else is?

kill yourselves

ill be back after the laker game... seriously kill yourselves

[TheBigVeto]

Kobe will never be satisfied until he emulates everything that Jordan did, including his Wizard years.

That Kobe, always good for a laugh.

[Leviathon1121]

So these so called hoards of stans that do this which you still haven't pointed out to me are why YOU have also started to act like a ******?

What happened to just being right and not an idiot and not being a *** cuz someone else is?

kill yourselves

ill be back after the laker game... seriously kill yourselves

Ive watched you do the same thing to Jordan fans making legit points. You are no Saint here, hilarious to watch you act like you are though.

[Ne 1]

Ive watched you do the same thing to Jordan fans making legit points. You are no Saint here, hilarious to watch you act like you are though.

Anti-Kobe jihadists are the biggest hypocrites ever.

[Doctor Rivers]

Kobe will never be satisfied until he emulates everything that Jordan did, including his Wizard years.

That Kobe, always good for a laugh.

and a good turnover

[Leviathon1121]

Anti-Kobe jihadists are the biggest hypocrites ever.

:cry:

[Nevaeh]

Anti-Kobe jihadists are the biggest hypocrites ever.




Originally Posted by Ne 1:

Nah if Kobe looked up to cheese eyes then he would have had his pops blasted.

Not the case though. Kobe actually had a fall out with his parents, but made peace with them.

Kobe just patterned his game after that bald headed chucker. He toke some of his moves and skill set and made it better. Didn't look up to him though.

Kobe isn't a self hating coon, he didn't get married to a b!tch that looks like prince, he dosen't rock a Hitler mustache, he didn't punch his teammate in the face and sure isn't a stubborn, heartless, greedy bastard that got his pops blasted.

Kobe is the people's champ. :cheers:



That was you in a thread honoring Jordan's 48th birthday last season, clown. And you want to talk about "Hypocrites"?
:oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5501674#post5501674

Oh, and my personal favorite from the same thread:




http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2010/06/ipt/1276856805.jpg

http://www.horschgallery.com/admin/uploads/Products/Product159/2655_THAM.JPG

1 more to go.

can't wait until June :cheers:

Kharma's a BITCH, ain't she youngster .......:pimp:

[RazorBaLade]

Ive watched you do the same thing to Jordan fans making legit points. You are no Saint here, hilarious to watch you act like you are though.

no u havent seen that because i have never criticized anything about jordan.

maybe youve seen me focus on lebrons mental issues but i think i always make a point to say hes incredible besides the one issue I think he has. But never anything against jordan or jordan fans.

and again, even if I did, thats not an excuse for you all to be retards as well.

[Da_Realist]

Some of these kids... :facepalm

Juanita Jordan is almost 53 years old. She used to be a model and was attractive in her day.

[Da_Realist]

And by the way, stop with the "MJ punched his teammate in the face". I can tell some of y'all are kids. That probably happens all the time on every team. Kobe punched Samaki Walker in the face back in the early 00's. Some of y'all whole existence is living in your mom's basement so I guess you wouldn't know about real sh!t.

[eliteballer]

Some of y'all whole existence is living in your mom's basement

What was the link to your youtube channel worshipping MJ?:roll:

[Da_Realist]

What was the link to your youtube channel worshipping MJ?:roll:

The same link with with more Lakers games than you've watched in all of your 16 years.

[D-Wade316]

Kobe was injured though
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/kobe_bryan_lol_gif.gif

[Flamboyant]

Far better comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1998&p2=bryanko01&y2=2012)

As usual the best response get's ignored. Kobe is on par with an MVP version of Jordan. God, some of the haters just never learn. :facepalm


He would have killed old man Kidd. Driving to the hoop, posting him up, shooting over him... No way does Jason Kidd (and whatever help) make MJ look as pathetic as Kobe last year in an embarrassing sweep even with the advantage of homecourt.

No, he wouldn't. Kidd is one of the greatest defenders of all-time, and sure as hell better than any defender '93 Knicks had on their roster. Sure he won't destroy MJ, but I think the healthy Kobe did pretty decent against Kidd in '02.



Kobe was injured thoughAs always :facepalm
School yourself please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im9voO0-HNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shi4WUNYjk

Seriously, do you ever watch laker games at all?????? And I'm talking about current lakers. Most of the times when discussing lakers, you somehow end up pulling crap out of your ass that for anyone who watched the games is obvious that you speak like a script was given to you. How do you not know that Kobe was injured?

[Da_Realist]

No, he wouldn't. Kidd is one of the greatest defenders of all-time, and sure as hell better than any defender '93 Knicks had on their roster. Sure he won't destroy MJ, but I think the healthy Kobe did pretty decent against Kidd in '02.

:oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/kobe_bryan_lol_gif.gif
He was. He even considered retirement in the offseason.