Leading the league in scoring @ 28.7 ppg

[fos]

while shooting 42.8% and 29.2% from 3. Kobe Bryant, the new Allen Iverson? :lol

[bdreason]

Kind of embarrassing when you think about the 2 bigs on his team shooting over 50%, and taking less shots combined.

[Doctor Rivers]

KoMe

Kobrick

[jb220]

Kind of embarrassing when you think about the 2 bigs on his team shooting over 50%, and taking less shots combined.
ish. where leading the league in scoring is embarassing!

[LockoutOver11]

ish. where leading the league in scoring is embarassing!

a great player at his stage wouldnt be...

[STATUTORY]

ish. where leading the league in scoring is embarassing!

at the age of 33

I love wade but i don't think he gonna be averaging 20 by that time

[AlphaWolf24]

ISH...where .2% is somehow all the difference in the world:roll:

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is the biggest cancer in laker's starting line up.

hie premadonna attitude of "me first" "others will feed off me" is a reason why Lakers are 28-18 in such short season of 66 games.

Bynum is Lakers best player. Kobe should be fighting 3rd option after Gasol.

with true PG, Kobe should score no more than 20 ppg from here on & let Bynum-Gasol-Sessions trio run the table.

Kobe should "feed off" this trio

in reality, Kobe is not even as efficient as 2001-2002 MJ.

Kobe may actually be as efficient as 2002-2003 40 yrs MJ, the oldest & the worse MJ of all. 3/20 kobe nights are way too many in a 66 games reg season.

& funny thing is Kobe is just 33 with tons of short reg seasons in his 16 yrs career (1997, 1998,1999, 2003) & now this 2012.

27FGA to score 29 pts is outragous.

[SpecialQue]

Kobe is the biggest cancer in laker's starting line up.

hie premadonna attitude of "me first" "others will feed off me" is a reason why Lakers are 28-18 in such short season of 66 games.

Bynum is Lakers best player. Kobe should be fighting 3rd option after Gasol.

with true PG, Kobe should score no more than 20 ppg from here on & let Bynum-Gasol-Sessions trio run the table.

Kobe should "feed off" this trio

in reality, Kobe is not even as efficient as 2001-2002 MJ.

Kobe may actually be as efficient as 2002-2003 40 yrs MJ, the oldest & the worse MJ of all. 3/20 kobe nights are way too many in a 66 games reg season.

& funny thing is Kobe is just 33 with tons of short reg seasons in his 16 yrs career (1997, 1998,1999, 2003) & now this 2012.

27FGA to score 29 pts is outragous.


:yaohappy:

[04mzwach]

He's a cancer at this point. He's just making his team lose. It's sad seeing him jack up shots when there's a wide open player right there where he can see them. Bynum and Gasol can dominate all they want, Kobe will still be there to take over and lose them the game. I'd take KG, Pierce, Allen all over Kobe at this point. Kobe is just garbage right now. It doesn't matter if you're able to hit the game winner when you've shot 30-40% all game. You'd be up if you weren't shooting os poorly.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

just a heads up, but shooting 43% is about average, maybe a little better than average, for a SG.
If he shot just 43.7%, it would put him in the top 10.
He usually shoots 45-47%

[04mzwach]

He's shooting below 40 in his last 9 games I thought. He's below average lately.

[Haymaker]

He's in denial. Can't accept the fact that he's old (basketball-wise).

[jb220]

He's in denial. Can't accept the fact that he's old (basketball-wise).
:oldlol:

When a Spurs fan calls you old, you know you're OLD.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

27FGA to score 29 pts is outragous.
just so you know....
Kobe is scoring 1.21 points per FGA.
DWade (who is shooting over 50%) is scoring only 1.30 points per FGA.

[Glide2keva]

Kobe is the biggest cancer in laker's starting line up.

hie prima-donna attitude of "me first" "others will feed off me" is a reason why Lakers are 28-18 in such short season of 66 games.

Bynum is Lakers best player. Kobe should be fighting 3rd option after Gasol.

With a true PG, Kobe should score no more than 20 ppg from here on & let Bynum-Gasol-Sessions trio run the table.

Kobe should "feed off" this trio

In reality, Kobe is not even as efficient as 2001-2002 MJ.

Kobe may actually be as efficient as 2002-2003 40 yrs MJ, the oldest & the worse MJ of all. 3/20 Kobe nights are way too many in a 66 games reg season.

& funny thing is Kobe is just 33 with tons of short reg seasons in his 16 yrs career (1997, 1998,1999, 2003) & now this 2012.

27FGA to score 29 pts is outrageous.http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e76/Skiramdoo/not-sure-if-serious.jpg

[gengiskhan]

just a heads up, but shooting 43% is about average, maybe a little better than average, for a SG.
If he shot just 43.7%, it would put him in the top 10.
He usually shoots 45-47%


Kobe is shooting 42% now. By the end of 66 games, he'll be lot closer to 40%.

Bynum & Gasol are well over 50% & clearly 1,2 punch for Lakers.

Its his 24 FGA thats killing Lakers

Its the amount of shots he is taking to play a "hero" is destroying Bynum's growth as a leader which he is showing he could easily be.

Kobe is a selfish bastard.

[blablabla]

Kobe is shooting 42% now. By the end of 66 games, he'll be lot closer to 40%.

Bynum & Gasol are well over 50% & clearly 1,2 punch for Lakers.

Its his 24 FGA thats killing Lakers

Its the amount of shots he is taking to play a "hero" is destroying Bynum's growth as a leader which he is showing he could easily be.

Kobe is a selfish bastard.
:facepalm

[SpecialQue]

OP's reaction = :lebron:

[rodman91]

It's not about %FG.He doesn't have same agression, playing style and he has two good to great big men right now. He must take his shoot attempts at 19-20 level per game like every perimeter superstar in the league now.

In Iverson's defense, he was sharing the ball better than this Kobe when he had other scorers. At 32 years old, he was shooting 19 shoots per game with %45-46...26.4 ppg 7.1 apg

Lakers would be much better team if Kobe was less selfish. I guess he doesn't believe in this team and tries to get more scoring titles before retiring.

[Mr. Jabbar]

"kobes will never win a chip w/o shaq"
"kobe is old"
"kobe will never lead a team to a chip"
"kobe doesnt make teammates better"
"kobe is a ballhog"
"kobe is a chucker"



:yaohappy:


Kobe has made a living out of proving haters wrong and fueling himself from this kind of slumps. Keep it coming. The Mambas legacy is on a lock for top 3 GOAT once he retires. Scoring leader at 33, :bowdown: , haters are amazing.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

ISH...where .2% is somehow all the difference in the world:roll:

2% isn't .2% dummy. Go back to school and get that GED, son.

[selrahc]

kobe is the best player in the world. he is the leagues leading scorer and best playmaker. he will lead the lakers to championship this year.

[pegasus]

Kobe is shooting 42% now. By the end of 66 games, he'll be lot closer to 40%.

Bynum & Gasol are well over 50% & clearly 1,2 punch for Lakers.

Its his 24 FGA thats killing Lakers

Its the amount of shots he is taking to play a "hero" is destroying Bynum's growth as a leader which he is showing he could easily be.

Kobe is a selfish bastard.

Just shut up already. Gasol and Bynum get a lot more touches than you think they do just by looking at their FGA's. It's not Kobe's fault that Gasol's post game has disappeared since last season, and that Bynum still hasn't learned how to play against double teams.

Kobe does take bad shots sometimes, but sometimes it's just to bail out his teammates when they pass him the ball with less than 2-3 seconds on the shot clock. I guess he should pass it to "insert Joel Anthony's equivalent from the Lakers team" in those situations to please you stat whores.

[gengiskhan]

"kobes will never win a chip w/o shaq"
"kobe is old"
"kobe will never lead a team to a chip"
"kobe doesnt make teammates better"
"kobe is a ballhog"
"kobe is a chucker"



:yaohappy:


Kobe has made a living out of proving haters wrong and fueling himself from this kind of slumps. Keep it coming. The Mambas legacy is on a lock for top 3 GOAT once he retires. Scoring leader at 33, :bowdown: , haters are amazing.

only a kobe ball sack licker will say this trash.

how conviniently you forgot where he got drafted. To suck prime shaq's deeek in NBA's winningest franchise.

Kobe is the luckiest player to get drafted to the Lakers, NBAs winingest franchise.

Draft kobe to Blazers or sixers, his career would've had ZERO chips with 1 Finals appearance at the most.


damb rapist lover.

[AlphaWolf24]

only a kobe ball sack licker will say this trash.

how conviniently you forgot where he got drafted. To suck prime shaq's deeek in NBA's winningest franchise.

Kobe is the luckiest player to get drafted to the Lakers, NBAs winingest franchise.

Draft kobe to Blazers or sixers, his career would've had ZERO chips with 1 Finals appearance at the most.


damb rapist lover.


yup...













another one MAD















next

[rodman91]

Bynum:18ppg (%58) & 13 rpg 2 bpg
Gasol:17ppg (%51) & 10 rpg 1.4 bpg

Twin Towers :bowdown:

[selrahc]

only a kobe ball sack licker will say this trash.

how conviniently you forgot where he got drafted. To suck prime shaq's deeek in NBA's winningest franchise.

Kobe is the luckiest player to get drafted to the Lakers, NBAs winingest franchise.

Draft kobe to Blazers or sixers, his career would've had ZERO chips with 1 Finals appearance at the most.


damb rapist lover.

he wasnt drafted by the lakers

[no pun intended]

he wasnt drafted by the lakers
Owned.

[gengiskhan]

Bynum:18ppg (%58) & 13 rpg 2 bpg
Gasol:17ppg (%51) & 10 rpg 1.4 bpg

Twin Towers :bowdown:

:coleman: & some disgusting Rapist Laker fans act like Kobe aint 3rd Best Player on the Laker taking tons of FGA at 42% shooting

Next.....

[blablabla]

:coleman: & some disgusting Rapist Laker fans act like Kobe aint 3rd Best Player on the Laker taking tons of FGA at 42% shooting

Next.....
hey i have an idea why don't the magic just let dwight take all the shoots or the knicks could just let chandler take all the shot
fvck ineffiecent perimiter players they are useless in basketball

[FKAri]

...except the next guy to shoulder the scoring load for Iverson was Aaron Mckie...while Kobe's got Gasol and Bynum.

Iverson was not an inherent cancer his whole career. His decline had to do with not being able to accept a lesser role in the twilight of his career.

Iverson's supposed ballhoggedness is also a part of that combined with the fact that Iverson had gotten psychologically used to playing on teams where he had no one anywhere near his level offensively. It's tough to give it up when you've been mentally trained for success by ballhogging.

Kobe's not a total ballhog either but I'd be inclined to say his ballhog rating in the past was higher than Iverson's. Mainly because when he played with Shaq, he had trouble giving it up. Again this is less ballhogging than it is him believing in himself and knowing he can get the job done his way. But after Shaq left and the Lakers stunk it up for some years Kobe got rid of almost all of that. And the Gasol trade didn't make it happen it only revealed that he had changed.

Kobe's problem now is the same as Iverson's late in his career tho, and that is accepting that you aren't who you used to be. Maybe he's fighting that out of stubborness or maybe he genuinely believes he's still got it. Either way, it's disruptive to the team and this is where Phil Jackson would be a nice coach to have.

[Salazaar]

:oldlol:

When a Spurs fan calls you old, you know you're OLD.

People don't realize that the Spurs are not an old team any more...

[AlphaWolf24]

It's not about %FG.He doesn't have same agression, playing style and he has two good to great big men right now. He must take his shoot attempts at 19-20 level per game like every perimeter superstar in the league now.

In Iverson's defense, he was sharing the ball better than this Kobe when he had other scorers. At 32 years old, he was shooting 19 shoots per game with %45-46...26.4 ppg 7.1 apg

Lakers would be much better team if Kobe was less selfish. I guess he doesn't believe in this team and tries to get more scoring titles before retiring.


that's funny....

because bieng selfish helped him win 5 Titles....

on the other hand, Stockton (the most unselfish player ever) didn't win ****! in nearly 20 seasons...


another basketball illiterate...

[AlphaWolf24]

...except the next guy to shoulder the scoring load for Iverson was Aaron Mckie...while Kobe's got Gasol and Bynum.

Iverson was not an inherent cancer his whole career. His decline had to do with not being able to accept a lesser role in the twilight of his career.

Iverson's supposed ballhoggedness is also a part of that combined with the fact that Iverson had gotten psychologically used to playing on teams where he had no one anywhere near his level offensively. It's tough to give it up when you've been mentally trained for success by ballhogging.

Kobe's not a total ballhog either but I'd be inclined to say his ballhog rating in the past was higher than Iverson's. Mainly because when he played with Shaq, he had trouble giving it up. Again this is less ballhogging than it is him believing in himself and knowing he can get the job done his way. But after Shaq left and the Lakers stunk it up for some years Kobe got rid of almost all of that. And the Gasol trade didn't make it happen it only revealed that he had changed.

Kobe's problem now is the same as Iverson's late in his career tho, and that is accepting that you aren't who you used to be. Maybe he's fighting that out of stubborness or maybe he genuinely believes he's still got it. Either way, it's disruptive to the team and this is where Phil Jackson would be a nice coach to have.


many great perimter players played with Shaq and never came close to the level that him and Kobe played at...

Prime penny , prime wade , prime Lebron, prime Nash ...they all played with Shaq when Shaq was still one of the best players in the league...none of them replicated what Kobe did.



another basketball illiterate...


next

[RaininTwos]

many great perimter players played with Shaq and never came close to the level that him and Kobe played at...

Prime penny , prime wade , prime Lebron, prime Nash ...they all played with Shaq when Shaq was still one of the best players in the league...none of them replicated what Kobe did.



another basketball illiterate...


next

GET THE F*CK OUT.

[gengiskhan]

that's funny....

because bieng selfish helped him win 5 Titles....

on the other hand, Stockton (the most unselfish player ever) didn't win ****! in nearly 20 seasons...


another basketball illiterate...


5 titles won by kobe because of being the luckiest draftee in NBA history.

3 titles off sucking shaq's 7'1" *****.
2 titles having dominant allstar big men.

Kobe won jack shit by persevierance & hardwork.
Kobe actually wanted out of lakers when they're weren't drafting dominant allstar big men in 2007.

get off kobe's ****. He is great but not better than Barkley or Malone in terms of impact.

Only reason why Stockton dont have back-2-back 1997,1998 championship rings is M.I.C.H.A.E.L. J.O.R.D.O.N.

Only reason why Kobe has 5 rings is because he did not play in MJ's era. Pippen would Rape Kobe defensively in '90s decade alone. MJ is not even needed.

This is the bitter truth.

In reality, Kobe's lakers are not even half as good as 1992,1993 Knicks. 1998 Pacers, 1997,1998 jazz, 1996 sonics, 1994 rockets.

Another Kobe'tard thoroughly educated for life.

[KOBEtherealKing]

5 titles won by kobe because of being the luckiest draftee in NBA history.

3 titles off sucking shaq's 7'1" *****.
2 titles having dominant allstar big men.

Kobe won jack shit by persevierance & hardwork.
Kobe actually wanted out of lakers when they're weren't drafting dominant allstar big men in 2007.

get off kobe's ****. He is great but not better than Barkley or Malone in terms of impact.
[/LIST]
Only reason why Stockton dont have back-2-back 1997,1998 championship rings is M.I.C.H.A.E.L. J.O.R.D.O.N.

Only reason why Kobe has 5 rings is because he did not play in MJ's era. Pippen would Rape Kobe defensively in '90s decade alone. MJ is not even needed.

This is the bitter truth.

In reality, Kobe's lakers are not even half as good as 1992,1993 Knicks. 1998 Pacers, 1997,1998 jazz, 1996 sonics, 1994 rockets.

Another Kobe'tard thoroughly educated for life.
Michael jordon?

People really fail to see 09" kobe was in another world. Kobe won that shit with the help of gasol but can't say kobe wasnt motivated. 10' kobe had a terrible game 7 but still people don't want to see games 1-6. Shaq won with fuvking wade just like he won with kobe. Its called teamwork. To say shaq could of won with out kobe and that lakers supporting cast is absurd.

[Shih508]

while shooting 42.8% and 29.2% from 3. Kobe Bryant, the new Allen Iverson? :lol

AI's better cuz AI wasn't shooting that kind of % with no hand checking rule

[rodman91]

that's funny....

because bieng selfish helped him win 5 Titles....

on the other hand, Stockton (the most unselfish player ever) didn't win ****! in nearly 20 seasons...


another basketball illiterate...

None of those 5 championships runs he wasn't shooting this much per game with this low %FG.

...next.

[pegasus]

Michael jordon?
:roll:

[brownmamba00]

I actually don't mind him taking this many shots.

the problem is he's playing waaay too much iso ball. those jabstep jabstep one dribble pull up 3, 2 ft behind the arc isn't a good shot at this stage of his career. he was 3/7 last night in crunch time which isn't THAT bad, but he killed the flow of the offense. refused to pass up the ball. The strange thing is he actually plays within the flow of the offense @ staples, but he gets all KoMe at the road.

he's shooting 47% at home apparently. shows you how hard he's sucking on the road.

[gengiskhan]

None of those 5 championships runs he wasn't shooting this much per game with this low %FG.

...next.

Coach Phil Jackson kept it under control. that helped them win rings. the current coach is afraid of kobe.

[rodman91]

AI's better cuz AI wasn't shooting that kind of % with no hand checking rule

Also he has never shoot this much with this low %FG next to another allstar scorer in his team. (Melo)

[SpecialQue]

5 titles won by kobe because of being the luckiest draftee in NBA history.

3 titles off sucking shaq's 7'1" *****.
2 titles having dominant allstar big men.

Kobe won jack shit by persevierance & hardwork.
Kobe actually wanted out of lakers when they're weren't drafting dominant allstar big men in 2007.

get off kobe's ****. He is great but not better than Barkley or Malone in terms of impact.

Only reason why Stockton dont have back-2-back 1997,1998 championship rings is M.I.C.H.A.E.L. J.O.R.D.O.N.

Only reason why Kobe has 5 rings is because he did not play in MJ's era. Pippen would Rape Kobe defensively in '90s decade alone. MJ is not even needed.

This is the bitter truth.

In reality, Kobe's lakers are not even half as good as 1992,1993 Knicks. 1998 Pacers, 1997,1998 jazz, 1996 sonics, 1994 rockets.

Another Kobe'tard thoroughly educated for life.

:kobe:

[CavaliersFTW]

KoMe Cryant at his best :lol

[SpecialQue]

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae53/Ott0_Rocket/Misc2/KobeOpisPhag.gif

[SpecialQue]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FUeMClx-w1E/S9-QriU8gHI/AAAAAAAABi0/b5fx2xFqXNA/s1600/Kobe+GQ.jpg

[Disaprine]

I hope kobe shoots 30% from the field and win the scoring title just to see people get butthurt by it. :lol

[jb220]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FUeMClx-w1E/S9-QriU8gHI/AAAAAAAABi0/b5fx2xFqXNA/s1600/Kobe+GQ.jpg
Oh me oh my...do you think he's wearing anything under all those bubbles?

[bwink23]

just so you know....
Kobe is scoring 1.21 points per FGA.
DWade (who is shooting over 50%) is scoring only 1.30 points per FGA.


that literally mean NOTHING...Kobe is not only shooting it all time on shots, but the ball is in his hands alot, and he's getting fouled alot for FT's....

NEVER combine FG shooting with FT's....that's idiotic. It just shows he's hogging it alot more than anticipated.

[gengiskhan]

that literally mean NOTHING...Kobe is not only shooting it all time on shots, but the ball is in his hands alot, and he's getting fouled alot for FT's....

NEVER combine FG shooting with FT's....that's idiotic. It just shows he's hogging it alot more than anticipated.

the best way to completely stagnate the offensive flow.

Kobe always had trouble playing off the ball. & once of the reasons why he will never make my all time top 10 GOAT list.

He had this weird tendency of slowing down the flow of offense like Melo & Iverson.

[eliteballer]

the best way to completely stagnate the offensive flow.

Kobe always had trouble playing off the ball. & once of the reasons why he will never make my all time top 10 GOAT list.

He had this weird tendency of slowing down the flow of offense like Melo & Iverson.

Uh..no he didnt. He did it a ton when he played with Shaq.

AI was also a great off the ball player.

ISHiot:facepalm

[WADE MONEY]

at the age of 33

I love wade but i don't think he gonna be averaging 20 by that time

wade is already 30.

[TheBigVeto]

while shooting 42.8% and 29.2% from 3. Kobe Bryant, the new Allen Iverson? :lol

He is not the 'new' Allen Iverson.
He has always been the 'taller' Allen Iverson.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

that literally mean NOTHING...Kobe is not only shooting it all time on shots, but the ball is in his hands alot, and he's getting fouled alot for FT's....

NEVER combine FG shooting with FT's....that's idiotic. It just shows he's hogging it alot more than anticipated.

also takes into account 3-pointers....doesn't change the fact that, while his % is way down, he is still above average (obviously not great).

[bwink23]

also takes into account 3-pointers....doesn't change the fact that, while his % is way down, he is still above average (obviously not great).


No..it sucks....and Kobe sucks, but hey....whatever helps you sleep at night...:D

[Round Mound]

while shooting 42.8% and 29.2% from 3. Kobe Bryant, the new Allen Iverson? :lol

He has always been an Allen Iverson type player shooting wise. Thank god he had Shaq and Now a Twin Tower All Star...Next to Him to Coushing Up His Bad Shot Selection

[Deuce Bigalow]

He has always been an Allen Iverson type player shooting wise. Thank god he had Shaq and Now a Twin Tower All Star...Next to Him to Coushing Up His Bad Shot Selection
kobe - 5
barkley - 0

:oldlol: :banana: :D

[Deuce Bigalow]

@Round Mound, he doesn't shoot it like Allen Iverson

Kobe
'01 Playoffs - 1.316 PPS
'08 Playoffs - 1.367 PPS
'09 Playoffs - 1.311 PPS
'10 Playoffs - 1.313 PPS

Barkley
'93 Playoffs - 1.324 PPS

Jordan
Playoff career - 1.331 PPS

[D-Wade316]

Don't know about PPS. Better use PPP as it factors turnovers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Don't know about PPS. Better use PPP as it factors turnovers.
PPS = Points Per Shot

Points/FGA

[D-Wade316]

PPS = Points Per Shot

Points/FGA
Kobe scored on fts too. Use TS%. :D

[Disaprine]

lol pps :lol

[SwayDizzle]

:oldlol:

When a Spurs fan calls you old, you know you're OLD.
:lol :lol :lol

[b4uc.23]

He has always been an Allen Iverson type player shooting wise. Thank god he had Shaq and Now a Twin Tower All Star...Next to Him to Coushing Up His Bad Shot Selection

The Ugly Truth :coleman:

[SFMF]

Where is that James Worthy video mad at kobe?

[Artillery]

He has always been an Allen Iverson type player shooting wise. Thank god he had Shaq and Now a Twin Tower All Star...Next to Him to Coushing Up His Bad Shot Selection

Pretty much sums it up. Overrated chucker that's played with more talent than any other star in NBA history.

[HurricaneKid]

Are people really trying to include the FT points and not counting them as possessions?

You can do this pretty easily by just looking at TS%. Of course, Kobe's TS% is too low so lets try some creative math.

[DMAVS41]

Pretty much sums it up. Overrated chucker that's played with more talent than any other star in NBA history.

Even without ever winning a title, Kobe would be a top 15 to 20 NBA player ever.

Probably top 15 ever.

I absolutely agree that he's benefited from great teams and coaching throughout his career, but people need to stop going overboard.

If he played on average teams his entire career his career/playoff averages would look something like 28/6/6 on 53% TS. He'd still be better than Malone and Barkley and a whole host of other guys that routinely find themselves in the top 20 all time.

[stallionaire]

He's a cancer at this point. He's just making his team lose. It's sad seeing him jack up shots when there's a wide open player right there where he can see them. Bynum and Gasol can dominate all they want, Kobe will still be there to take over and lose them the game. I'd take KG, Pierce, Allen all over Kobe at this point. Kobe is just garbage right now. It doesn't matter if you're able to hit the game winner when you've shot 30-40% all game. You'd be up if you weren't shooting os poorly.
:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

:applause:


U mad that Kobe tore Rubios ACL?

[04mzwach]

U mad that Kobe tore Rubios ACL?
:biggums: We got prime Mark Madsen years and now you have to ask questions just to ridicule us and our hurt player?

[Killbot]

You got to sometimes wonder about his IQ. Work ethic, footwork, and the versatile moves are all fantastic, but there is a time when he has got to realize to stop shooting and try to give his PF and C more touches.

At times, there are few occasions where he forcefully becomes passive probably to prevent further criticism.

[truhooper]

:roll:

[INDI]

He's a cancer at this point. He's just making his team lose. It's sad seeing him jack up shots when there's a wide open player right there where he can see them. Bynum and Gasol can dominate all they want, Kobe will still be there to take over and lose them the game. I'd take KG, Pierce, Allen all over Kobe at this point. Kobe is just garbage right now. It doesn't matter if you're able to hit the game winner when you've shot 30-40% all game. You'd be up if you weren't shooting os poorly.

trade anyone of those guys for kobe and the celtics are the favorites for the championship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


rondo
kobe
pierce
garnett
(insert whoever the heck you wanna insert)


that would be sick!!!!!!!!!

[INDI]

He has always been an Allen Iverson type player shooting wise. Thank god he had Shaq and Now a Twin Tower All Star...Next to Him to Coushing Up His Bad Shot Selection


kobe played with shaq and gasol (and gasol didnt get the props that he gets until he started playing with kobe).

shaq has played with penny hardaway, kobe, wade, nash, lebron, rondo/ray/pierce/garnett (all of them will rank above gasol on the all-time list). and still don't got as many rings as kobe

kobe didnt have the benefit of playing with the level of players shaq has played wth but yet still has more rings, also look at guys like bill russell,magic, and bird. If kobe played with teams that those guys was blessed with he would have about 9 or 10 rings right now.

[INDI]

p.s. fg% is overrated. the difference between 50% and 45% shooting is 1 shot (when shooting 20 shots). Out of all the hate kobe gets i wonder if there is a stat out there showing how many players take shots with 3 or less seconds left on the clock?????? im pretty sure kobe leads this by a wide margin because for years his team has given him the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock to bail them out. That would absolutely make up the reason for the extra 1 to 2 misses per game

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

p.s. fg% is overrated. the difference between 50% and 45% shooting is 1 shot (when shooting 20 shots). Out of all the hate kobe gets i wonder if there is a stat out there showing how many players take shots with 3 or less seconds left on the clock?????? im pretty sure kobe leads this by a wide margin because for years his team has given him the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock to bail them out. That would absolutely make up the reason for the extra 1 to 2 misses per game

The problem is Kobe doesn't shoot 45% EVERY game.

2006 Kobe averaged 35ppg on 45% shooting; his game logs look like this though:

-4 games in the 20 percentile
-20 games in the 30 percentile
-11 games under 43% shooting
-6 games at 45%+

And then his games shooting 46% and above. Now you tell me, this is supposed to be consistent?

[rodman91]

kobe played with shaq and gasol (and gasol didnt get the props that he gets until he started playing with kobe).

shaq has played with penny hardaway, kobe, wade, nash, lebron, rondo/ray/pierce/garnett (all of them will rank above gasol on the all-time list). and still don't got as many rings as kobe

kobe didnt have the benefit of playing with the level of players shaq has played wth but yet still has more rings, also look at guys like bill russell,magic, and bird. If kobe played with teams that those guys was blessed with he would have about 9 or 10 rings right now.

Do you realize Shaq was declined when he played with Wade and he was out of his prime when he played with Nash,Lebron,Rondo/Allen/Garnett?

Shaq won 3 championships, 3 FMVPs and made 5 finals as Franchise player.
Kobe won 2 championships, 2 FMVPs and made 3 finals as Franchise player.

[Duncan21formvp]

Kind of embarrassing when you think about the 2 bigs on his team shooting over 50%, and taking less shots combined.
Yep. It is one thing if you got bigs who can't score like maybe Chicago's bigs, but not with guys like Gasol and Bynum.

[SlayerEnraged]

He's just shooting too many shots on nights he is off. Thats whats really hurting his average. Kobe also is closer to 34. Less than 100 days to age 34.

[SlayerEnraged]

Yep. It is one thing if you got bigs who can't score like maybe Chicago's bigs, but not with guys like Gasol and Bynum.

Those guys couldn't get off 25+ shots to save their life is the problem. Bynum and Gasol are solid but they aren't players who could ever averaged more than 20FGA.

[RazorBaLade]

The problem is Kobe doesn't shoot 45% EVERY game.

2006 Kobe averaged 35ppg on 45% shooting; his game logs look like this though:

-4 games in the 20 percentile
-20 games in the 30 percentile
-11 games under 43% shooting
-6 games at 45%+

And then his games shooting 46% and above. Now you tell me, this is supposed to be consistent?

so he shot under 45% 41 times and over 46% 40 times.

Whats inconsistent about that? Do you have like brons or jordans or whatever so we can compare? It seems rather fine.

[Big#50]

Real Lakers fans like myself are tired of this shit. Everyone wants him to let the bigs do their thing. It's only on ISH where the Kobe cult is out of control, and full of weird little ****s, that want Kobe to keep chucking. I live in LA. Do not let these idiots make you all think we want to win/lose by the Kobe.

[longtime lurker]

What was the point of this thread again? What he's doing at his age and mileage is pretty impressive. and I LOL when people say that any 20 pt scorer could put up those numbers with a green light to shoot....yeah right

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so he shot under 45% 41 times and over 46% 40 times.

Whats inconsistent about that? Do you have like brons or jordans or whatever so we can compare? It seems rather fine.

What? Since when has shooting under 45% 41 times been consistent?

Lebron in 2010 averaging 30ppg on 50% shooting:

-9 games in the 30 percentile
-12 games under 45% shooting
-14 games above 45-47% shooting
-2 games of 48% shooting

And finished the rest of the season shooting 50%, including 10 games of 60FG% (one game of 70FG%).

[MMM]

When it comes to discussing Kobe Bryant it seems like 99% of basketball fans lose all basketball sense. Why can't the majority of us respect his greatness while excepting his flaws as a player. Kobe is an all time great and the people who tried to bring him down by comparing him to modern players are wrong but that doesn't excuse the behavior of his stans who've always tried to put him in a category he doesn't belong.

[DaHeezy]

ish. where leading the league in scoring is embarassing!

Ish. Where shooting 55% and being the scoring leader is OK if you're losing!

[NumberSix]

Real Lakers fans like myself are tired of this shit. Everyone wants him to let the bigs do their thing. It's only on ISH where the Kobe cult is out of control, and full of weird little ****s, that want Kobe to keep chucking. I live in LA. Do not let these idiots make you all think we want to win/lose by the Kobe.
This.

No matter how many times I state I'm a lifelong Laker fan, apparently I'm still a "Kobe hater". Sorry, but.... Lakers > Kobe.

Kobe is like a 40 year old actress that still wants to play the daughter when she's obviously at the point where she needs to play the mother. Kobe needs to just accept that Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers. Kobe had his time and now it's time for him to do the right thing.

[Bladers]

This.

No matter how many times I state I'm a lifelong Laker fan, apparently I'm still a "Kobe hater". Sorry, but.... Lakers > Kobe.

Kobe is like a 40 year old actress that still wants to play the daughter when she's obviously at the point where she needs to play the mother. Kobe needs to just accept that Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers. Kobe had his time and now it's time for him to do the right thing.

You are not a Lakers fan. Quit playing. Your act is getting old.

[04mzwach]

Real Lakers fans like myself are tired of this shit. Everyone wants him to let the bigs do their thing. It's only on ISH where the Kobe cult is out of control, and full of weird little ****s, that want Kobe to keep chucking. I live in LA. Do not let these idiots make you all think we want to win/lose by the Kobe.
There is a sane mind among the Laker fans. :biggums:

[NumberSix]

You are not a Lakers fan. Quit playing. Your act is getting old.
Bladers

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This.

No matter how many times I state I'm a lifelong Laker fan, apparently I'm still a "Kobe hater". Sorry, but.... Lakers > Kobe.

Kobe is like a 40 year old actress that still wants to play the daughter when she's obviously at the point where she needs to play the mother. Kobe needs to just accept that Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers. Kobe had his time and now it's time for him to do the right thing.

Well said.

I was also a Magic/Lakers fan growing up in the 90's. Believe it or not, there are MANY (ex) Lakers fans waiting for Kobe to retire. Check this dude's channel out: http://www.youtube.com/user/nonplayerzealot4 - best Lakers vid-uploader on the net and dude can't stand him.

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=uZx5NwwLBcU

Check the comments out. :oldlol:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

The problem is Kobe doesn't shoot 45% EVERY game.

2006 Kobe averaged 35ppg on 45% shooting; his game logs look like this though:

-4 games in the 20 percentile
-20 games in the 30 percentile
-11 games under 43% shooting
-6 games at 45%+

And then his games shooting 46% and above. Now you tell me, this is supposed to be consistent?

Half his games he shot his career average or better. Sounds consistent to me. How many guards that take 27 shots per game while having to virtually go 1 on 5 will shoot 46% or better for (whatever you consider an appropriate amount of games for someone to be consistent) say, what? 60+ games?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Half his games he shot his career average or better. Sounds consistent to me. How many guards that take 27 shots per game while having to virtually go 1 on 5 will shoot 46% or better for (whatever you consider an appropriate amount of games for someone to be consistent) say, what? 60+ games?

More than 35+ games (which is basically half) of at least 50% shooting or better is what I consider consistent...or elite. And to address your other question, not very many, which is why he's an all-time great.

[d21221hk]

there are kobe fans and there are laker fans

[RazorBaLade]

What? Since when has shooting under 45% 41 times been consistent?

Lebron in 2010 averaging 30ppg on 50% shooting:

-9 games in the 30 percentile
-12 games under 45% shooting
-14 games above 45-47% shooting
-2 games of 48% shooting

And finished the rest of the season shooting 50%, including 10 games of 60FG% (one game of 70FG%).

So lebron shot 37 times under his average? Kobe shot 41 on higher volume. Not a big difference at all.

Its not about shooting under 45% or not, its about shooting under the average regardless of what it is. You don't call a 30% shooter inconsistent, you call someone inconsistent if they get their 30% average on 10% one day 50% the other... Thats inconsistency. It seems like the 2 seasons youve opsted about kobe and bron both shot under their avg about 40 times.

It'd be weird if they shot under their avg like 60 times and then over the avg only 20... Thats inconsistent because its constantly going up and down by huge amounts.

if we're talking about 45% just not being good or whatever okay but inconsistency def has nothing to do with it.

[Heavincent]

This.

No matter how many times I state I'm a lifelong Laker fan, apparently I'm still a "Kobe hater". Sorry, but.... Lakers > Kobe.

Kobe is like a 40 year old actress that still wants to play the daughter when she's obviously at the point where she needs to play the mother. Kobe needs to just accept that Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers. Kobe had his time and now it's time for him to do the right thing.

You're definitely not a Lakers fan. That's blatantly obvious.

Any sane person knows that Kobe is still the best player on the Lakers.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

More than 35+ games (which is basically half) of at least 50% shooting or better is what I consider consistent...or elite. And to address your other question, not very many, which is why he's an all-time great.

Can you answer a question for me? Since when has shooting 50% become the benchmark of efficiency for a perimeter player when almost no (volume scoring) perimeter player in this era does it?

Hell, even the average dude can't go to the gym, shoot 100 open jumpers and make 50 of them.

[RazorBaLade]

More than 35+ games (which is basically half) of at least 50% shooting or better is what I consider consistent...or elite. And to address your other question, not very many, which is why he's an all-time great.

So if someone shoots 55% for 40 games and then 20% the rest of the year he was consistent?

Why don't we just stick to what makes sense lol. If theres no severe fluctuations then the player was consistent. Thats all. You can be consistently bad too. Why make your own definition of consistent?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So lebron shot 37 times under his average? Kobe shot 41 on higher volume. Not a big difference at all.

You're not putting this in context. First of all, Kobe had 4 games shooting 20% and 20 games shooting 30%. '10 Lebron had ZERO games shooting 20% and only 9 games of shooting 30%.

Remember, this is the same Lebron that averaged 30 a game.

[EnoughSaid]

If the Lakers want to WIN the championship, then I suggest they start feeding Bynum and Gasol much more. Their only advantage is their amazing combo at PF-C, and if they execute on that, it's hard to stop them. I still can't believe Lakers were trying to trade Pau. :facepalm

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Kobe knows what he has to do to win another championship. I have no doubt in my mind, he'll make major adjustments come Play-off time.

[Heavincent]

If the Lakers want to WIN the championship, then I suggest they start feeding Bynum and Gasol much more. Their only advantage is their amazing combo at PF-C, and if they execute on that, it's hard to stop them. I still can't believe Lakers were trying to trade Pau. :facepalm

Bynum and Pau both average more than 15 PPG, so what's the problem?

And I guess having the best SG in the league isn't an advantage? :oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

You're not putting this in context. First of all, Kobe had 4 games shooting 20% and 20 games shooting 30%. '10 Lebron had ZERO games shooting 20% and only 9 games of shooting 30%.

Remember, this is the same Lebron that averaged 30 a game.

Yeah but since he shoots 5% lower then obviously he's going to take one step down. but its a step down everywhere - not inconsistent.
ie:

12 games under 45 for lebron turns into 17 for kobe
9 games under 30 for lebron turns into 20 for kobe
0 games under 20 for lebron turns into 4 for kobe
41 games over 50% for lebron turns into 25-30 for kobe over 50%

its natural. I don't see why that makes him less consistent, less fg% by 5 overall means everything is gonna take one step down.

[StateOfMind12]

Bynum and Pau both average more than 15 PPG, so what's the problem?

And I guess having the best SG in the league isn't an advantage? :oldlol:
The Lakers don't have Dwyane Wade unless you are insisting that Kobe is better than Wade these days.


while shooting 42.8% and 29.2% from 3. Kobe Bryant, the new Allen Iverson? :lol
He is certainly close. He is having one of his worst TS% and eFG% years as well. Kobe's days as the best scorer in the league are done and have been done for the past 2 years. Kevin Durant is now the best scorer in the league.

[Heavincent]

The Lakers don't have Dwyane Wade unless you are insisting that Kobe is better than Wade these days.


I am.

[LoneyROY7]

Half his games he shot his career average or better. Sounds consistent to me. How many guards that take 27 shots per game while having to virtually go 1 on 5 will shoot 46% or better for (whatever you consider an appropriate amount of games for someone to be consistent) say, what? 60+ games?

You act as if it isn't by choice.

[StateOfMind12]

I am.
:oldlol:

What advantage does Kobe honestly have over Wade these days? Wade is honestly better than Kobe at like everything except FT shooting where Kobe is only a few percentages better. It's not like the difference between their FT shooting are like Steve Nash and Shaquille O'Neal different.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Can you answer a question for me? Since when has shooting 50% become the benchmark of efficiency for a perimeter player when almost no (volume scoring) perimeter player in this era does it?

It's really not about shooting 50% (though, coaches always stress that making at least half of your shots is important). It's more along the lines of Kobe having a profuse amount of shooting games worse than his peers.

Check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s) comparison Phil drew of Kobe / MJ a couple years back. Listen to the bit on FG percentages and it being a BIG difference between the two. Keep in mind, Michael is a career 51% shooter.

[RRR3]

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/3cd3cec35392d0ed174975df23e2b0de.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

It's really not about shooting 50% (though, coaches always stress that making at least half of your shots is important). It's more along the lines of Kobe having a profuse amount of shooting games worse than his peers.

Check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s) comparison Phil drew of Kobe / MJ a couple years back. Listen to the bit on FG percentages and it being a BIG difference between the two. Keep in mind, Michael is a career 51% shooter.

at 20 shots per game the 50% to 45% difference between kobe and mj is literally one shot per game.

MJ makes one shot that kobe misses per game every game.

Difference? Yes.. But not that big of a deal...

[RazorBaLade]

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/3cd3cec35392d0ed174975df23e2b0de.jpg

:kobe:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

12 games under 45 for lebron turns into 17 for kobe
9 games under 30 for lebron turns into 20 for kobe
0 games under 20 for lebron turns into 4 for kobe
41 games over 50% for lebron turns into 25-30 for kobe over 50%

its natural.

Right, naturally less efficient. I don't consider Kobe a consistent scorer. Never have; never will. He's a volume scorer - and there's nothing wrong with that.

[RazorBaLade]

Right, naturally less efficient. I don't consider Kobe a consistent scorer. Never have; never will. He's a volume scorer - and there's nothing wrong with that.

naturally less efficient doesnt make him less consistent.

i dont understand why you feel inclined to make your own definition of consistent but besides that i dont disagree iwth anything youre saying really. i dont think you realize that by definition you can be a consistent 25% shooter and an inconsistent 60% shooter... to say no is to just create your own definition of the word.

[Heavincent]

:oldlol:

What advantage does Kobe honestly have over Wade these days? Wade is honestly better than Kobe at like everything except FT shooting where Kobe is only a few percentages better. It's not like the difference between their FT shooting are like Steve Nash and Shaquille O'Neal different.

- Better post player
- Much better shooter
- Better scorer
- Better defender when he's locked in
- Carries a much heavier load for his team (doesn't have Lebron and Bosh to lean on)
- More clutch

Wade is overrated as shit on ISH sometimes.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

at 20 shots per game the 50% to 45% difference between kobe and mj is literally one shot per game.

MJ makes one shot that kobe misses per game every game.

Difference? Yes.. But not that big of a deal...

I know you're a big Kobe fan and all, but...

Phil Jackson's coaching expertise >>>> yours.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/3cd3cec35392d0ed174975df23e2b0de.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

- Better post player Debatable
- Much better shooter Not nearly as much as he used to be. Kobe is a crap 3Pt shooter jsut like Wade these days, only at least Wade doesn't chuck a shot he can't make consistently
- Better scorer No, Wade doesn't play as many minutes due to blowouts and Spoelstra giving him rest, he's the same scorer he's always been. If he shotjacked like Kobe, he could be leading the NBA in scoring too.
- Better defender when he's locked in He hasn't been "locked in" in years
- Carries a much heavier load for his team (doesn't have Lebron and Bosh to lean on) Translation: shoots more bricks
- More clutch Wade has 3 game winners this year

Wade is overrated as shit on ISH sometimes.
:rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

at 20 shots per game the 50% to 45% difference between kobe and mj is literally one shot per game.

But Kobe doesn't JUST miss one less shot than MJ per game via box scores. Obviously it's his season average, but Kobe has had at least two dozen more games missing 10+ shots a game than Michael.

Where is the confusion?

[RazorBaLade]

I know you're a big Kobe fan and all, but...

Phil Jackson's coaching expertise >>>> yours.

phil didnt say anything differently. we know kobes a less efficient scorer. you are just taking it as its a giant difference and kobe is less consistent because you are unaware of the difference between 45% and 50% being 1 shot per game and the definition of consistent.

[Heavincent]

:rolleyes:

Keep on trolling buddy.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yeah but since he shoots 5% lower then obviously he's going to take one step down. but its a step down everywhere - not inconsistent.
ie:

12 games under 45 for lebron turns into 17 for kobe
9 games under 30 for lebron turns into 20 for kobe
0 games under 20 for lebron turns into 4 for kobe
41 games over 50% for lebron turns into 25-30 for kobe over 50%

its natural. I don't see why that makes him less consistent, less fg% by 5 overall means everything is gonna take one step down.

People have demonstrated that Kobe is the superstar with the highest variance in the last 30 years in terms of his FG%. That is by definition inconsistency.

[RazorBaLade]

But Kobe doesn't JUST miss one less shot than MJ per game via box scores. Obviously it's his season average, but Kobe's had at least two dozen games missing 10+ more shots than Michael a night.

Where is the confusion?

But thats whats going to happen because he misses one shot more than mj every game. The whole thing flows together don't you understand?

For mj's bad game of missing 10 shots, kobes bad game is 12 shots and its the SAME THING consistency wise because one is from the start less efficient by one shot.


it doesnt make kobe less consistent hes just simply worse/less efficient.

[StateOfMind12]

- Better post player
True, but this doesn't mean much especially since Wade is a good post player himself.


- Much better shooter
What do you mean by shooter? 3 point shooting? Sure, but in terms of shot selection, mid-range shooting, etc. Wade has him beat by a long shot.


- Better scorer
No, he is not. This isn't 2010 or 2009 anymore, Kobe is not a consistent scorer these days. One night he could score 15 points with 5-21 shooting and one night he could score 30 points with 10-21 shooting. He has absolutely no consistency in his scoring these days, just high variation. He was kind of like this during his prime but it wasn't this bad.

Kobe is an inconsistent and inefficient scorer these days while Wade is the complete opposite.


- Better defender when he's locked in
So that is basically never, so no.


- Carries a much heavier load for his team (doesn't have Lebron and Bosh to lean on)
If Wade was on the Lakers, he wouldn't be dumb enough to ignore Gasol and Bynum to try to accomplish his own goal by winning a scoring title. He doesn't carry a bigger load because his talent is inferior, he carries a bigger load because he wants an individual award out of it.


- More clutch
What would this be based off of?

[RazorBaLade]

People have demonstrated that Kobe is the superstar with the highest variance in the last 30 years in terms of his FG%. That is by definition inconsistency.

That hasn't been demonstrated in this thread but if the proof exists somewhere else I'll change my opinion if I see it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wade is better than Kobe now. If Kobe can get his efficiency back up then you can say Kobe is better like he was earlier in the season

[RRR3]

Keep on trolling buddy.
Nothing I said was trolling. This isn't prime Kobe, you should be happy he's still as good as he is, but don't delude yourself into thinking he's still up there with the top 3 players in the NBA.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

It's really not about shooting 50% (though, coaches always stress that making at least half of your shots is important). It's more along the lines of Kobe having a profuse amount of shooting games worse than his peers.

Check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s) comparison Phil drew of Kobe / MJ a couple years back. Listen to the bit on FG percentages and it being a BIG difference between the two. Keep in mind, Michael is a career 51% shooter.

That's a product of circumstance though. If a guy plays with 2 good big men who are focal points of the offense, then obviously he will shoot worse than them more often. Especially when there is no other offensive threat outside of Kobe/Pau/Bynum, and no perimeter threat outside of Kobe (I'm talking pre-Sessions here)

If in previous years Kobe could have so many games and be so inconsistent with his shooting, how could he manage to maintain a 45-46 FG% throughout his career? He's played with and without handchecking and other defensive rules, yet he's still managed to be an elite scorer even until this day. To me, that represents consistency. You know with Kobe, you are getting bonafide scoring.

As far as the comparisons with Michael, Kobe just shoots a lower FG%. (Michael shot 50% for his career btw unless you remove his Wizards years). Now that's due to a multitude of factors: shot selection, finishing ability, playstyle, coaching, era, etc. That doesn't make him more inconsistent. It just means he consistently shoots a lower percentage.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

phil didnt say anything differently. we know kobes a less efficient scorer. you are just taking it as its a giant difference and kobe is less consistent because you are unaware of the difference between 45% and 50% being 1 shot per game and the definition of consistent.

There's a big difference between those two, when you compare the shooting percentages.

:confusedshrug:

You are making this harder than it really is. He's a volume scorer, bottom line.

[The Choken One]

ITT: jealous kunts who can't stand that Kobe is one of the greatest to ever play the game and still absolutely killing it.

[RazorBaLade]

There's a big difference between those two, when you compare the shooting percentages.

:confusedshrug:

You are making this harder than it really is. He's a volume scorer, bottom line.

you are yet to show me or anyone how he is inconsistent. everyones a volume scorer thats good... lebron takes as many shots as him and mj took 2 more per game. u cant be good without volume.

[Deuce Bigalow]

There's a big difference between those two, when you compare the shooting percentages.

:confusedshrug:

You are making this harder than it really is. He's a volume scorer, bottom line.
10-20 = 50%
9-20 = 45%

lol 1 shot

[Bladers]

So that is basically never, so no.


LOL Wht?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254733

[RRR3]

LOL Wht?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254733
LeBron felt sorry for Kobe after turning him into the "Brown Mamba" by shitting on him so many times over the years, so out of the bottomless well of kindness that resides in his unfathomably gargantuan heart, King James deigned to let Mr. Bryant "win" a game against him for once.


Bron DA GOAT GAWD! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

at 20 shots per game the 50% to 45% difference between kobe and mj is literally one shot per game.

MJ makes one shot that kobe misses per game every game.

Difference? Yes.. But not that big of a deal...

Um, actually it's not like that at all.

Jordan vs Kobe shooting entire careers, not including this current season by Kobe:

Regular season
Games with under 50% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 489
Kobe Bryant: 678

Regular season
Games with under 48% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 458
Kobe Bryant: 651

Regular season
Games with under 46% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 388
Kobe Bryant: 578

Regular season
Games with under 44% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 296
Kobe Bryant: 490

Regular season
Games with under 42% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 234
Kobe Bryant: 426

Regular season
Games with under 40% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 158
Kobe Bryant: 344

Regular season
Games with under 35% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 88
Kobe Bryant: 207

Regular season
Games with under 30% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 41
Kobe Bryant: 107

Regular season
Games with 60% or better shooting:
Michael Jordan: 173
Kobe Bryant: 129

Regular season
Games with 50% or better shooting:
Michael Jordan: 556
Kobe Bryant: 425


So no, the difference is a lot bigger than just 1 shot.

It has and always will be consistency. Kobe doesn't compare to Jordan's consistency.

[RRR3]

Um, actually it's not like that at all.

Jordan vs Kobe shooting entire careers, not including this current season by Kobe:

Regular season
Games with under 50% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 489
Kobe Bryant: 678

Regular season
Games with under 48% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 458
Kobe Bryant: 651

Regular season
Games with under 46% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 388
Kobe Bryant: 578

Regular season
Games with under 44% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 296
Kobe Bryant: 490

Regular season
Games with under 42% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 234
Kobe Bryant: 426

Regular season
Games with under 40% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 158
Kobe Bryant: 344

Regular season
Games with under 35% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 88
Kobe Bryant: 207

Regular season
Games with under 30% shooting:
Michael Jordan: 41
Kobe Bryant: 107

Regular season
Games with 60% or better shooting:
Michael Jordan: 173
Kobe Bryant: 129

Regular season
Games with 50% or better shooting:
Michael Jordan: 556
Kobe Bryant: 425


So no, the difference is a lot bigger than just 1 shot.

It has and always will be consistency.
I wonder if they'd keep this logic for Kobe vs. Iverson debates? Iverson often shot around 40% w/ the sixers. 8/20=40%. 9/20=45%. LOL "only 1 shot" :hammerhead:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Like I've said before. I honestly don't have a problem with Kobe taking 24 shots a game. He's done it before and been a beast with it.

What I have a problem with is the kinds of shots he's taking. He needs to cut down on the 3's and isolation, and try to work in more pick and roll and off ball screens. He shoots an amazing percentage in those situations.

But at the end of the day, even if he shoots 40%, if it results in him helping his team win a title then I'm happy.

[Dave3]

10-20 = 50%
9-20 = 45%

lol 1 shot
And yet you just said "If Kobe can get his efficiency back up then you can say Kobe is better like he was earlier in the season" so clearly you attribute importance to that shot (or even half a shot, since Kobe would probably only go up from 43% to 45%.

[RazorBaLade]

What is so hard to understand about kobe's fg is lower by 1 shot so over the course of a season he will miss 800 shots more than MJ? That since kobe shoots 45%, hes of course going to be taken down a step lower everywhere else =

more games under 50%, more games under 40%, more games under 30%. He shoots 45% instead of 50% so that will be shown everywhere.

Why is this a hard concept to grasp? It doesn't make him less consistent, he just shoots worse. wtf. Am I explaining this simple concept poorly?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's a product of circumstance though. If a guy plays with 2 good big men who are focal points of the offense, then obviously he will shoot worse than them more often

Totally disagree. If you got players (Pau / Bynum) who can draw double teams, it makes the game easier for you, or Kobe in this case. Basketball-101 dude. :oldlol:


If in previous years Kobe could have so many games and be so inconsistent with his shooting, how could he manage to maintain a 45-46 FG% throughout his career?

Because he's a streaky / volume scorer?


He's played with and without handchecking and other defensive rules, yet he's still managed to be an elite scorer even until this day. To me, that represents consistency. You know with Kobe, you are getting bonafide scoring.

He can put points on the board - I or anybody that's sane will not tell you otherwise. I just don't consider him efficient.


That doesn't make him more inconsistent. It just means he consistently shoots a lower percentage.

Again, I disagree. My argument isn't (solely) based on the parallels Kobe / MJ draw.

[RazorBaLade]

I wonder if they'd keep this logic for Kobe vs. Iverson debates? Iverson often shot around 40% w/ the sixers. 8/20=40%. 9/20=45%. LOL "only 1 shot" :hammerhead:

im not going to ignore the innate truth of mathematics just because i want to show kobe is way more efficient than iverson.

guess what, iverson from what i know is still consistent. hes a consistent 40% shooter. Kobe is a consistent 45% shooter. Jordan is a consistent 50% shooter.

is this hard ot understand? iverson is gonna have more games under 40% than kobe. That doesnt make him less consistent its just what happens if you shoot 40% for your career. wtf.

[Legends66NBA7]

I wonder if they'd keep this logic for Kobe vs. Iverson debates? Iverson often shot around 40% w/ the sixers. 8/20=40%. 9/20=45%. LOL "only 1 shot" :hammerhead:

The sad part is, if I did put in Kobe's shooting this year, it would be worse for Kobe...

[Deuce Bigalow]

And yet you just said "If Kobe can get his efficiency back up then you can say Kobe is better like he was earlier in the season" so clearly you attribute importance to that shot (or even half a shot, since Kobe would probably only go up from 43% to 45%.
Kobe's been shooting like 35% recently. He's had a horrid 2-3 weeks

[RRR3]

im not going to ignore the innate truth of mathematics just because i want to show kobe is way more efficient than iverson.

guess what, iverson from what i know is still consistent. hes a consistent 40% shooter. Kobe is a consistent 45% shooter. Jordan is a consistent 50% shooter.

is this hard ot understand? iverson is gonna have more games under 40% than kobe. That doesnt make him less consistent its just what happens if you shoot 40% for your career. wtf.
AI's inefficiency is overstated on ISH anyways. Career 43% shooter, isn't that what Kobe is shooting this year? :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

guess what, iverson from what i know is still consistent. hes a consistent 40% shooter. Kobe is a consistent 45% shooter. Jordan is a consistent 50% shooter.

:oldlol:

[Dave3]

Kobe's been shooting like 35% recently. He's had a horrid 2-3 weeks
Yet overall he's still at 43% and you consider him worse, yet if he was to be up 2% you'd consider him better? If 2% is enough for you to change your mind, then 5% should be a pretty big difference.

[RRR3]

Reposting just because I crack myself up (yes I'm full of myself, deal with it :pimp:)
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/3cd3cec35392d0ed174975df23e2b0de.jpg

[Bladers]

LeBron felt sorry for Kobe after turning him into the "Brown Mamba" by shitting on him so many times over the years, so out of the bottomless well of kindness that resides in his unfathomably gargantuan heart, King James deigned to let Mr. Bryant "win" a game against him for once.


Bron DA GOAT GAWD! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

what ever helps you sleep better at night.

[RazorBaLade]

AI's inefficiency is overstated on ISH anyways. Career 43% shooter, isn't that what Kobe is shooting this year? :confusedshrug:

yeah meh. I like iverson. anything over 40% for small players is good in my books. jordan just screwed everyone because of how great he was and now anyone who shoots a lot but doesnt match him is inefficient.


:oldlol:

what are you laughing at?

[RRR3]

what ever helps you sleep better at night.
Bladers

[Legends66NBA7]

And yet you just said "If Kobe can get his efficiency back up then you can say Kobe is better like he was earlier in the season" so clearly you attribute importance to that shot (or even half a shot, since Kobe would probably only go up from 43% to 45%.

The answer is above, homie.

:cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yet overall he's still at 43% and you consider him worse, yet if he was to be up 2% you'd consider him better? If 2% is enough for you to change your mind, then 5% should be a pretty big difference.
depends who you compare it too. when comparing to jordan it isn't because Kobe takes 3X more 3s than him. kobe shoots around 48% from 2

[iDefend5]

Greatest player to play this game.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Totally disagree. If you got players (Pau / Bynum) who can draw double teams, it makes the game easier for you, or Kobe in this case. Basketball-101 dude. :oldlol:

Not necessarily.

1. Pau doesn't really draw double teams like he used to.
2. Bynum draws doubles, but because of the Lakers' horrible perimeter shooting combined with Bynum's difficulty with finding cutters out of double teams, teams can clog passing lanes and prevent Kobe from getting easy cuts to the bucket. Lots of times, Bynum will just throw up a bad shot or travel when he gets too much attention. Besides, some of his best looks come from Kobe creating off the dribble, dishing to Pau, and then having Pau lob it to Bynum.




Because he's a streaky / volume scorer?

He shoots a lower percentage. If he were a streaky scorer, he would have even more 50%+ shooting nights because it would mean he wouldn't have a real median. He would either be godlike or be shitty. We're seeing more of that this season, but it hasn't really been a pattern in his career.

And what do you mean "volume scorer"? What's your definition of it? It seems like you're using it as a sleight?




He can put points on the board - I or anybody that's sane will not tell you otherwise. I just don't consider him efficient.

Well I don't consider 45% to be inefficient. I consider Kobe to have average efficiency. Which considering the amount and kinds of shots he takes, it's actually good. But I guess we can agree to disagree here.




Again, I disagree. My argument isn't based on the parallels Kobe / MJ have (or dont) as scorers.

What was your argument? That Kobe is more inconsistent? Like I said, he just shoots a lower percentage. He consistently shoots a lower percentage than Michael.

[RazorBaLade]

depends who you compare it too. when comparing to jordan it isn't because Kobe takes 3X more 3s than him. kobe shoots around 48% from 2

i believe one day we'll start to pay attention to how crazy efficient 3s are

think about it... someone that shoots a measly 35% from 3 is making 350 out of 1000 shots.. Terrible right? But thats 1050 pts! Compare that to making 500/1000 shots, an "amazing" 50% from the field and you only score 1000 pts on 1000 pts.


also whoot Rad understands consistency and math. i am happy

[iDefend5]

Bladers
I'm surprised you are a Yao fan, tell me your thoughts on him.

[OldSchoolBBall]

That hasn't been demonstrated in this thread but if the proof exists somewhere else I'll change my opinion if I see it.

Here you go: http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/10/variance-volume-and-elite-wings-part-i/ (links to part 2 and 3 are at the bottom of the analyses). The relevant portion for our purposes:

[quote]Another way to view consistency is by frequency of games, delineated in a specific range. For instance, we can call games over 60% True Shooting (TS)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yao > Dwight, and it's not even close

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

1. Pau doesn't really draw double teams like he used to.
2. Bynum draws doubles, but because of the Lakers' horrible perimeter shooting combined with Bynum's difficulty with finding cutters out of double teams, teams can clog passing lanes and prevent Kobe from getting easy cuts to the bucket. Lots of times, Bynum will just throw up a bad shot or travel when he gets too much attention. Besides, some of his best looks come from Kobe creating off the dribble, dishing to Pau, and then having Pau lob it to Bynum.

And from 2008-10? You would definitely see Pau being doubled if it wasn't Kobe. Again Rad, I'm talking about Kobe here. You're telling me having two 7 footers who can (and still do) draw double teams don't make life easier on him? Really?



He shoots a lower percentage. If he were a streaky scorer, he would have even more 50%+ shooting nights

We have two different interpretations of a 'streaky scorer' obviously.


And what do you mean "volume scorer"? What's your definition of it? It seems like you're using it as a sleight?

A player who needs a lot of shots to get his points. Now that Kobe is a primary jump shooter, you see games where he goes 11/29 for 28-29 pts. I consider a statline like that to be volume.



Well I don't consider 45% to be inefficient

Neither do I, but I also don't consider it consistent.

[RazorBaLade]

Here you go: http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/10/variance-volume-and-elite-wings-part-i/ (links to part 2 and 3 are at the bottom of the analyses). The relevant portion for our purposes:

"we can call games over 60% True Shooting (TS) “efficient” shooting games and games under 50% TS “inefficient” shooting games."

What is the point of doing that for a player who shoots 45% for his career average and compare it to people who shoot 50%?

Is there any way a 45% career shooter can beat out a 50% shooter in that stat?

No? Then they aren't testing consistency - they're testing efficiency.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]"we can call games over 60% True Shooting (TS)

[RazorBaLade]

TS% and FG% aren't the same thing, RazorBaLade.

if you honestly think that changes anything then im done lol.

kobes career TS is lower than jordans and thus kobe will have more bad games. It doesnt make him less consistent, its just a fact that he will have worse shooting nights more often because that lower TS doesn't come out of thin air. It doesnt change consistency.

i obv cannot get through to yall , and you guys havent been able to tell me what consistency has to do with a player who shoots less efficiently having more games that are less efficient... so lets just agree to disagree.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

if you honestly think that changes anything then im done lol.

kobes career TS is lower than jordans and thus kobe will have more bad games. It doesnt make him less consistent, its just a fact that he will have worse shooting nights more often because that lower TS doesn't come out of thin air. It doesnt change consistency.

i obv cannot get through to yall , and you guys havent been able to tell me what consistency has to do with a player who shoots less efficiently having more games that are less efficient... so lets just agree to disagree.

I wasn't thinking about that at all. Honestly, I wasn't sure if you knew lol.

How does having more bad games NOT make him less consistent? What the hell? :oldlol: Whatever, I'm not gonna go back and forth with you, this is getting remedial.