Student can't attend senior prom cause his date is a porn star.

[L.Kizzle]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/541774/thumbs/s-MEGANPIPERMIKESTONEPROM-large.jpg


Mike Stone won't be able to attend his high school prom with Megan Piper or any other porn star, according to the North St. Paul-Maplewood-Oakdale School District in Minnesota.

Stone was called to the principal's office at Tartan Senior High School this week and told it was inappropriate to bring an adult film star to a high school dance, the Daily Dot reports.

However, the 18-year-old student escaped disciplinary action and was not in any trouble with the school, Jennifer McNeil, a representative for the school district, told The Huffington Post.

After sending nearly 600 Tweets, Stone had recently received responses from at least two porn stars who said they were willing to attend his prom as long as he provided money for airfare.

In a statement issued to parents and obtained by HuffPost, the North St. Paul-Maplewood-Oakdale School District cited regulations to defend their decision to ban an adult film star from attending the event.

In short, the rules state that the district has the right to deny any person admission to a school-sponsored event if "the visit is not in the best interest of students, employees or the school district," or if it "substantially disrupts the orderly operation of school or school activities," McNeil said.

This will be the second time Piper misses out on attending a high school prom; she moved from Georgia to Kansas during her senior year of high school and couldn't attend her own.

And although the 19-year-old porn star was disappointed about the decision, she acknowledged the school was acting in the best interests of the students.

"I'm not thrilled; I kind of wanted to go, but I understand," Piper said in a telephone interview.

But Piper also said she was looking forward to meeting Stone's parents, receiving a corsage, posing for pictures with his friends and doing "all the normal things kids would be doing for prom."

According to the Daily Dot, Stone's principal did bring the teen's actions to the attention of his parents, who were "embarrassed" by the situation.

Piper said she wasn't surprised by their reaction.

"I don't know what I would think if I were them," she said.

Despite rumors, the Tartan High School prom has not been canceled, McNeil confirmed. The dance will take place May 12 at the Landmark Center in St. Paul.

[tomtucker]

is everybody in porn a star ?

[leopoldstotch]

is everybody in porn a star ?

very true. you don't hear such terms as "porn dud", "porn master", and "porn veteran"

[IcanzIIravor]

Mike Stone gets a high five from me. Tell Megan to come anyway. it's after the prom that you're really looking for.

[bada bing]

the guy is a moron for letting them know he is bringing a porn star. he should have just brought her with him at the prom.

i gotta give this guy props for actually getting in touch with a porno lady (she is not a porn star) and bringing her along. I wonder how much she is charging him though.

[DaHeezy]

is everybody in porn a star ?

Is everybody in rock a star?

[CelticBaller]

baller

[L.Kizzle]

the guy is a moron for letting them know he is bringing a porn star. he should have just brought her with him at the prom.

i gotta give this guy props for actually getting in touch with a porno lady (she is not a porn star) and bringing her along. I wonder how much she is charging him though.
Since its someone who doesn't attend the school, they have to let them know who that other person is.

[JMT]

very true. you don't hear such terms as "porn dud", "porn master", and "porn veteran"

porn journeyman

porn role player

[Rake2204]

porn journeyman

porn role player
Excellent.

[reppy]

porn journeyman

porn role player

the poor man's <insert name of famous pornstar>

[blablabla]

porn bust

[L.Kizzle]

the poor man's <insert name of famous pornstar>
To be fair, I've never seen her work. This looks like a job for xvideos or pornhub later today, lol.

[Gundress]

The Girl Next Door :applause:


Maybe the school did the right thing cause you know the male teacher would try to holla at her and after prom there are usually party like alcohol involved

[L.Kizzle]

The Girl Next Door :applause:


Maybe the school did the right thing cause you know the male teacher would try to holla at her and after prom there are usually party like alcohol involved
Parties after the prom have nothin to do with the school.

[Gundress]

Parties after the prom have nothin to do with the school.


That's the point. The School don't want to be on news especially when you have a pornstar.

You have to think about other students would be bragging about having a pornstar at their school and their parents would find out and be :rant at the school and put the news on them or something else.

[Alamo]

I went to school with this girl. Found out she was a pornstar through this thread :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ace23]

I went to school with this girl. Found out she was a pornstar through this thread :roll: :roll: :roll:
And we should believe you why?

[Alamo]

And we should believe you why?

Who would lie about that? I'm not proud that I've had 3 pornstars come from school in the last 2 years.

[flipogb]

Mike Stone sounds like a porn name, lol.
oh and thats messed banning someone who has a legal occupation.

im sure some of those students are drug dealers and they are in the prom.

[L.Kizzle]

Who would lie about that? I'm not proud that I've had 3 pornstars come from school in the last 2 years.
So, did you bag any of them?

[NuggetsFan]

I went to school with this girl. Found out she was a pornstar through this thread :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm from a smaller town so my HS didn't even have that many students. Some chick 2 years above me got into porn, it was pretty crazy. A friends brother was actually dating her and appeared in a video or two. Wouldn't call her a porn star cause she basically just has a site so in theory any girl could really do what she's doing. Not even that hot either, people use to call her subway cookie because she blew some guy for one or something f*cked up like that.


http://www.dreamtaylor.com/tour/ :oldlol:

[SourPatchKids]

porn journeyman

porn role player
lel.

[NuggetsFan]

Subway Cookie? :oldlol: Sounds like a shitty nickname I'd try and start for someone.

Ya I have no idea, just assumed it was one of those stupid rumors that stuck :lol

[tomtucker]

porn bust

porn scrub

porn choker

[Scholar]

Porn Luke Walton

[joe]

If school was really about the students. Really about educating them. Really about making them feel confident and secure and well adjusted. Really about the kids well being..

Stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Since the students are sort of the fricken reason that a senior prom is even held, why couldn't they at least ask them how they felt? I bet if they did a student vote, 98% wouldn't care if this pornstar attended.

But it's not about the kids, is it.

"I don't like Math, why should I have to take it?" Because we said so.
"I don't like taking notes, why can't we do more interactive learning?" Because we said so.
"Why can't school start later in the day and end later in the day?" Because we said so.
"If I spend 7 hours in school, why should I also have two hours of homework?" Because we said so!!!!

School is about control, manipulation, and indoctrination. That is all. The very roots of it are the Prussian public school system, which was designed to control and indoctrinate the children to support the state. That is the system we replicated and instituted here.

[Jackass18]

Who cares about the lameass prom? He should have just brought her to one of the after parties.

[Jailblazers7]

If school was really about the students. Really about educating them. Really about making them feel confident and secure and well adjusted. Really about the kids well being..

Stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Since the students are sort of the fricken reason that a senior prom is even held, why couldn't they at least ask them how they felt? I bet if they did a student vote, 98% wouldn't care if this pornstar attended.

But it's not about the kids, is it.

"I don't like Math, why should I have to take it?" Because we said so.
"I don't like taking notes, why can't we do more interactive learning?" Because we said so.
"Why can't school start later in the day and end later in the day?" Because we said so.
"If I spend 7 hours in school, why should I also have two hours of homework?" Because we said so!!!!

School is about control, manipulation, and indoctrination. That is all. The very roots of it are the Prussian public school system, which was designed to control and indoctrinate the children to support the state. That is the system we replicated and instituted here.

C'mon dude, this post is just silly. And there are things called private schools and parents can home school their children.

[Alamo]

So, did you bag any of them?

No. I went to a huge school and didn't know them personally.

[Scholar]

Who cares about the lameass prom? He should have just brought her to one of the after parties.

Did you see a picture of the kid? :oldlol: He probably didn't get invited to any after parties.

He most likely just wanted to have people see him with a hot chick one last time before everyone moves on from high school and forget each other or only keep in touch through their FB or Twitter or whatever the **** else might be popular in the near future.


If school was really about the students. Really about educating them. Really about making them feel confident and secure and well adjusted. Really about the kids well being..

Stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Since the students are sort of the fricken reason that a senior prom is even held, why couldn't they at least ask them how they felt? I bet if they did a student vote, 98% wouldn't care if this pornstar attended.

But it's not about the kids, is it.

"I don't like Math, why should I have to take it?" Because we said so.
"I don't like taking notes, why can't we do more interactive learning?" Because we said so.
"Why can't school start later in the day and end later in the day?" Because we said so.
"If I spend 7 hours in school, why should I also have two hours of homework?" Because we said so!!!!

School is about control, manipulation, and indoctrination. That is all. The very roots of it are the Prussian public school system, which was designed to control and indoctrinate the children to support the state. That is the system we replicated and instituted here.

:applause:

[LA_Showtime]

Prom is about status. Taking the hottest date you can find, going to an upscale restaurant, and then getting shitfaced either before prom or at the after-party. Since that kid is dating a porn star, while in high school no less, he's basically a ****ing celebrity. Dude's already won.

[LA_Showtime]

If school was really about the students. Really about educating them. Really about making them feel confident and secure and well adjusted. Really about the kids well being..

Stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Since the students are sort of the fricken reason that a senior prom is even held, why couldn't they at least ask them how they felt? I bet if they did a student vote, 98% wouldn't care if this pornstar attended.

But it's not about the kids, is it.

"I don't like Math, why should I have to take it?" Because we said so.
"I don't like taking notes, why can't we do more interactive learning?" Because we said so.
"Why can't school start later in the day and end later in the day?" Because we said so.
"If I spend 7 hours in school, why should I also have two hours of homework?" Because we said so!!!!

School is about control, manipulation, and indoctrination. That is all. The very roots of it are the Prussian public school system, which was designed to control and indoctrinate the children to support the state. That is the system we replicated and instituted here.

I hated high school, but you almost have to do it like that. Teenagers are immature. Do you really think the majority of them would do well choosing which classes to take and determining what they want to do at that age? Hell no. Shit, half of the students in college don't have a clue what they're there for. Learning comes down to desire, and for most kids that doesn't click with them until they're older, assuming it does at all.

[LA_Showtime]

He's not dating a porn star. He tweeted a bunch of them asking them to go to prom. This one agreed as long as he paid for her to fly out there.

Oh. Shit. Maybe I should read the article first.

*Tried to read the article, ended up Googling the pornstar.:oldlol: *

Still don't think it's right what they're doing, but that's high school. High school teachers are a bunch of losers who were too stupid to get real jobs, or at least that's the majority of them. They're controlling dickheads. What did that kid expect? A party in honor of his date? At least he gets to meet a pornstar.

[joe]

I hated high school, but you almost have to do it like that. Teenagers are immature. Do you really think the majority of them would do well choosing which classes to take and determining what they want to do at that age? Hell no. Shit, half of the students in college don't have a clue what they're there for. Learning comes down to desire, and for most kids that doesn't click with them until they're older, assuming it does at all.

Yes. Yes I do.

Why oh why wouldn't college kids know what they're at college for? Could it be, that they're not allowed to make their own choices for the first 18 years of their education? That they can't specialize in any subjects until they're full grown adults? By the time kids get to college, they've been told what to do their whole life. Can we really blame them for not being able to make decisions?

Learning comes down to a desire, yes. But almost ALL humans have this desire. 100% naturally. Every single kid you've ever met, has asked you "why" something is. And then you answered. And they asked "why" again. And again. And again. Kids naturally want to learn. They drive you crazy with their incessant desire to learn. "Why?? Because I don't know! Stop asking!"

It's the public education system that stomps out their desire to learn. By forcing them to learn things they're not interested in. By doing the teaching in bland, uncreative ways. By sticking them in the madhouse of public school where the teachers cater to the lowest common denominator, and bullying runs rampant.

I don't blame the schools necessarily, I think the schools are just a symptom of the greater problem. They're the runny nose. But the actual flu is what needs to be treated. Which is, well.. another topic for another day.



C'mon dude, this post is just silly. And there are things called private schools and parents can home school their children.

Why is the post silly?

Private education has been fit with the shackles of regulation. And they're competing with a government supported monopoly. Not exactly ideal.

Parents can home school their children, yes. They can also run 20 miles a day. They can also learn to build an xbox from scratch. Parents can do a lot of things. That doesn't mean it's easy.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with something being naturally difficult. But when it's government shackles making something difficult, then it's a different story.

Many states require a teachers license to home school. They may require other licensing. They may mandate certain subjects be taught. (I.E., put that government gun in your ribs and tell you how to raise your kid).

But by far the biggest reason that parents can't "just homeschool their kid," is how government has robbed us of our wealth. How they've made our economy so dingy, made everything so expensive through inflation, deflated business growth so thoroughly with regulation and taxation.. that both parents are forced to get jobs. Can't exactly home school your kid when you're working 9-5.

[Jailblazers7]

How are kids supposed to know what they want to study without being exposed to a variety of courses? I didn't know I wanted to study economics until I was forced to take a course on it by my university. Not to mention that kids need basic skills and understanding of english, math, science, etc. Schooling isn't perfect and more options will be made available moving forward but calling it indoctrination and manipulation is just some half baked anti-govt theory.

[Balla_Status]

If school was really about the students. Really about educating them. Really about making them feel confident and secure and well adjusted. Really about the kids well being..

Stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Since the students are sort of the fricken reason that a senior prom is even held, why couldn't they at least ask them how they felt? I bet if they did a student vote, 98% wouldn't care if this pornstar attended.

But it's not about the kids, is it.

"I don't like Math, why should I have to take it?" Because we said so.
"I don't like taking notes, why can't we do more interactive learning?" Because we said so.
"Why can't school start later in the day and end later in the day?" Because we said so.
"If I spend 7 hours in school, why should I also have two hours of homework?" Because we said so!!!!

School is about control, manipulation, and indoctrination. That is all. The very roots of it are the Prussian public school system, which was designed to control and indoctrinate the children to support the state. That is the system we replicated and instituted here.

If the kids that didn't like math were allowed to not take it, I can't imagine what this world would be like. There would be a shit ton of morons. Most kids that age don't know what the **** they're doing.

[joe]

How are kids supposed to know what they want to study without being exposed to a variety of courses? I didn't know I wanted to study economics until I was forced to take a course on it by my university. Not to mention that kids need basic skills and understanding of english, math, science, etc. Schooling isn't perfect and more options will be made available moving forward but calling it indoctrination and manipulation is just some half baked anti-govt theory.

The model for our school system was taken from the Prussians. Their system was designed to indoctrinate the kids, into loving the King and supporting the state. That is our school systems roots. And it has grown into a mighty fine tree, if I may say so myself!

But even if you want to ignore the actual roots of our school system, just look at it. Look at yourself. You are using "anti-gov" against me like it's some sort of bad word. So, being pro-gov is good? Questioning the motives of the men in blue suits is not acceptable? In that case, the Prussian school (er, public school) system is really succeeding, wouldn't you say?

"How are kids supposed to know what they want to study without being exposed to a variety of courses."

I think this is a great question. The first thing we should do is admit that we really have no idea how education would be run in a completely voluntary situation. It's like people using Horses and Buggies, trying to figure what the next advancement in transportation might be. We really do not know.

But to say that without government schools, kids would not be exposed to all different subjects? Why would you assume that? Just because you're not forced to study math for 12 years doesn't mean you won't ever be exposed to it. In fact, I bet you'd have been exposed to economics MUCH earlier. Being as most schools only teach economics in high school, if at all.

We could have a big room. Books and pictures and videos and computers all around. 4-5 teachers in the room. The kids can look at anything they want. The adults can guide them to better info. They can read to them, if the kids like. They can take them around the city, to different museums and buildings and landmarks. Allow kids to do hands on experimenting right in the class.

Maybe some parents would all get together with their kids. Let them ask questions, read them books. A more personal type of learning.

Maybe some schools just like the current public schools would exist.

In other words, parents and kids would have to figure out which education works best for them. There's no exact formula.

How would we get around if horse and buggy didn't exist?

[joe]

If the kids that didn't like math were allowed to not take it, I can't imagine what this world would be like. There would be a shit ton of morons. Most kids that age don't know what the **** they're doing.

And the world is just crawling with bright young minds today, ready to solve the challenges of the world?

[Jailblazers7]

The only reason I included the phrase anti-govt is because you approach everything from an anti-govt stance. If anything, you are the one that is indoctrinated because you approach everything from the same ideological viewpoint. Most of my research papers and class discussions question "the men in blue suits."

And I never said that students wouldn't be exposed to different subject without govt schooling. Earlier you acted as if kids were forced to study things like math purely because the govt was enforcing its will on them. I'm all for more choice in schooling and we will get there as the discussion keeps moving in that direction but characterizing the govt as some scheming villain gets old. I get enough of that in class lol.

But we will just agree to disagree as always. :lol


This thread is about pornstars and it should stay about pornstars.

[joe]

The only reason I included the phrase anti-govt is because you approach everything from an anti-govt stance. If anything, you are the one that is indoctrinated because you approach everything from the same ideological viewpoint. Most of my research papers and class discussions question "the men in blue suits."

And I never said that students wouldn't be exposed to different subject without govt schooling. Earlier you acted as if kids were forced to study things like math purely because the govt was enforcing its will on them. I'm all for more choice in schooling and we will get there as the discussion keeps moving in that direction but characterizing the govt as some scheming villain gets old. I get enough of that in class lol.

But we will just agree to disagree as always. :lol


This thread is about pornstars and it should stay about pornstars.

Ha. Needless to say, but it's not easy to find people to talk about this stuff in real life. So any time I can start a discussion online, it's gravy :). But I admit, it does feel funny holding this convo in a thread about pornstars. Um, "MVP (Most valuable pornstar)." lol

I don't approach everything from an anti-government stance. I reject the initiation of force against the innocent, in every way. The government is just one example of that. Other examples include rape, murder, and theft. I reject the initiation of force in both my morals, and in my real life (which is something I work on everyday. You don't pop out of the matrix in perfect mental condition. You need to rewire your brain and retrain your behavior).

Rape, murder, and theft are not widely accepted in daily culture. So there isn't much reason to talk about them. In fact, the initiation of force is not widely accepted in general. Only when it comes to the government. That's when peoples brain shut down. The government is allowed to steal. The government can kidnap, and murder.

When you have this understanding, you realize how sick public schools are. A bunch of kids pledging allegiance to the flag and being asked "what would you do if you were President?" Non-sense. And having their ability to think neutered by the state, so they come out the other side as obedient half brains. Attacking people like me for pointing out the twisted logic they have been trained to accept. Like a slave telling a rebellious peer that the massa' knows what's best for him, and to question the morality of their enslavement is nutty. I find it twice as nutty to passively accept this garbage set-up that we were born into.

And I do recognize that I cannot change anything. The only thing I can change is myself. The government isn't going anywhere. That's fine. I will try to live my life as happily and peacefully as possible. I will pay my taxes and follow the law. I'm happy enough just trying to implement these beautiful ideas into my own life. :).

Maybe one day you will realize you are better than some tax cattle for the state, JailBlazers. And we will be happy to have your very smart, thoughtful mind on our side. :) But until then, yes. We will agree to disagree.

And uh, sorry, apparently there's an InsideHoops requirement that all my posts must be novels. I have lobbied Jeff to change the rule but, to no effect. :)

[joe]

N!gga, would you have taken a porn star to prom? What if the porn star was a communist?

hahaha. Nah. I'm confident in my ability to write treacherously long posts. I'm confident in my ability to pass the basketball. But.. I'm not confident enough to smash a porn star 8)

[RidonKs]

We could have a big room. Books and pictures and videos and computers all around. 4-5 teachers in the room. The kids can look at anything they want. The adults can guide them to better info. They can read to them, if the kids like. They can take them around the city, to different museums and buildings and landmarks. Allow kids to do hands on experimenting right in the class.
this is a goddamn fantasy and every teacher would laugh at the mere thought

(because the folks who might possibly be able to afford it aren't exactly the ones with the biggest problem, ya dig?)


that said, there's definitely something to specialization that joe touched on which could be made much more valuable in the schooling system if done right. certainly some classes would have to be made mandatory because there are mandatory skills we need to function in the world. but there should be considerably more of a focus on expertise in specialized form.

the world has become so bitesized in how each and every one of us can make our mark that being able to do one or a few things really well, which means learning from a young age, could be among the most valuable assets a student takes from their time in the school system.

there should be a much more equivalent option in middle and high school for majoring in a subject, and pushing towards whatever that is. it's all exploratory anyway, more kids at that age than not are bound to change the direction of their life another dozen times before they actually figure out what they want to do. but engaging in a subject of importance with the potential to contribute later in life... that's a lot easier if a) that subject is of interest to the kids and b) that subject receives some degree of priority over others. maybe a program like that would require direct consultation with the parents or whatever, as far as kids choosing their own major goes. and of course it's more cost intensive than breezing over the same text material year after year bit by bit until every useless factoid crammed into every brain has already been pushed back out again. but it's an idea.


along the same lines is a university/college reform i've heard a little about, covering the same concerns. just a different age, undergrads aren't quite the same breed as high schoolers. still indecisiveness in college is a reality for just about everybody and one popular answer is to distribute classes differently... intensive non-overlapping month long classes, or something similar. spreading one's attention over five subjects and four months robs a lot of the drive to dig deeper, to get the big picture by sifting through every detail first. but once you realize the sheer depth of each and every subject, and then multiply that by five, well you've got a mountain on your hands. if classes were offered in this way, perhaps even as an alternative while full courseload semesters continue to be available as well, could make for significant improvement.



end rambling

oh, and bs that he can't show this girl off to his buddies but i don't have much sympathy even if i disagree with the decision. stupid stunt by a clearly desperate dude. whether the desperation is for p*ssy or for attention is hard to say, but either way, i hope he keeps starving.

[joe]

this is a goddamn fantasy and every teacher would laugh at the mere thought

(because the folks who might possibly be able to afford it aren't exactly the ones with the biggest problem, ya dig?)


Actually, schools similar to that already exist. So it's not a fantasy.

How do you know what schools like that would cost? Where do you even get that from?

Why should we care what teachers think? Of course they'd be against a voluntary market in education, in the same way that a Mexican drug lord supports the US war on drugs. Teachers have a huge incentive to believe that the current model of education is the only way to do it. Their entire career depends on it. While we're at it, why don't we ask a military general what he thinks of a non-interventionist foreign policy?



that said, there's definitely something to specialization that joe touched on which could be made much more valuable in the schooling system if done right. certainly some classes would have to be made mandatory because there are mandatory skills we need to function in the world. but there should be considerably more of a focus on expertise in specialized form.

the world has become so bitesized in how each and every one of us can make our mark that being able to do one or a few things really well, which means learning from a young age, could be among the most valuable assets a student takes from their time in the school system.

there should be a much more equivalent option in middle and high school for majoring in a subject, and pushing towards whatever that is. it's all exploratory anyway, more kids at that age than not are bound to change the direction of their life another dozen times before they actually figure out what they want to do. but engaging in a subject of importance with the potential to contribute later in life... that's a lot easier if a) that subject is of interest to the kids and b) that subject receives some degree of priority over others. maybe a program like that would require direct consultation with the parents or whatever, as far as kids choosing their own major goes. and of course it's more cost intensive than breezing over the same text material year after year bit by bit until every useless factoid crammed into every brain has already been pushed back out again. but it's an idea.


along the same lines is a university/college reform i've heard a little about, covering the same concerns. just a different age, undergrads aren't quite the same breed as high schoolers. still indecisiveness in college is a reality for just about everybody and one popular answer is to distribute classes differently... intensive non-overlapping month long classes, or something similar. spreading one's attention over five subjects and four months robs a lot of the drive to dig deeper, to get the big picture by sifting through every detail first. but once you realize the sheer depth of each and every subject, and then multiply that by five, well you've got a mountain on your hands. if classes were offered in this way, perhaps even as an alternative while full courseload semesters continue to be available as well, could make for significant improvement.



end rambling

oh, and bs that he can't show this girl off to his buddies but i don't have much sympathy even if i disagree with the decision. stupid stunt by a clearly desperate dude. whether the desperation is for p*ssy or for attention is hard to say, but either way, i hope he keeps starving.

I think you're making some good suggestions. More specialization options, giving the kids choices. Sounds awesome. But you're operating from a faulty premise, which is that the state actually cares about its citizens. The goal of the state is not to help the kids. The goal for politicians is to get elected, to give jobs to their friends, to receive lobbying money, and to gain power. Take some money from the rich minority, give it to the poor majority. Get people addicted and dependent on government programs, so they continue to vote for you. Just keep the chains moving in your political career.

They do not care about how this effects the economy. They do not care about how this effects the children. They do not care about how this effects you. They say what you want to hear to get your vote, and then do what they want. That's the very nature of the system, and the incentives inherent within.

A system built on force, on taking peoples money with the threat of violence, cannot produce positive results. Evil cannot produce good. Theft cannot produce prosperity. In the same way that murdering innocent people cannot end terrorism, and locking millions of weed smokers in prison cannot end drug abuse.

Forcing kids to learn state mandated material will never produce an ingenious society. You can tweak it as much as you want. Modify the rules all you want. But until school taxes are removed and education regulations are removed, the youth will continue their descent into the shadowy pits of glorified idiocy.

Now excuse me.. I must go watch 16 and pregnant.

[RidonKs]

[QUOTE=joe]Actually, schools similar to that already exist. So it's not a fantasy.

How do you know what schools like that would cost? Where do you even get that from?
lol, i didn't say i knew how much what you described would cost. i said not everybody would be able to afford that. do you have any idea how packed it can get in an inner city elementary school classroom? how much funding is consistently cut from the budgets?

you're right, schools like you described do exist. terrific schools are everywhere. many of them are private or funded and administered by religious institutions, by civil society in general. great. glad kids somewhere are getting an education, a few less to worry about. what do we do about the ones that aren't so lucky? you would say deprive them of their teet so that newer stronger institutions, likely private because that's where all the capital is at the moment, can replace them and give these kids the education they deserve. i say that's unbelievably naive and the damage would be catastrophic. we've had this conversation before.



Why should we care what teachers think? Of course they'd be against a voluntary market in education, in the same way that a Mexican drug lord supports the US war on drugs. Teachers have a huge incentive to believe that the current model of education is the only way to do it. Their entire career depends on it. While we're at it, why don't we ask a military general what he thinks of a non-interventionist foreign policy?
yeah, what could they possibly know, spending eight hours per day, five days per week, four weeks per month, ten months per year with the same damn kids. you don't think, with all that time spent together, they might just start to connect with the kids in whose interests they're actively pursuing a career? if there's anybody we should listen to about schools, it's teachers.

but no, they're biased like a goddamn drug lord lol. the incentive on behalf of teachers to keep the education system on life support is not motivated by an intense desire to keep their $40k with summers off... at least not generally speaking. it's motivated by real understanding of the situation, informed by having spent practically every waking hour of their lives tutoring kids, many of whom don't turn out so hot. they aren't looking to keep the corolla in the driveway any more than a secretary or a construction worker wants to keep their job. can't knock them for that, livelihood has to come from somewhere.

like i said, teachers are exactly who should be talking about these issues because they're in the trenches day after day. you want to assume they can't assess their kids' circumstances without glaring careerism, that's not on them, it's on you.



I think you're making some good suggestions. More specialization options, giving the kids choices. Sounds awesome. But you're operating from a faulty premise, which is that the state actually cares about its citizens. The goal of the state is not to help the kids. The goal for politicians is to get elected, to give jobs to their friends, to receive lobbying money, and to gain power. Take some money from the rich minority, give it to the poor majority. Get people addicted and dependent on government programs, so they continue to vote for you. Just keep the chains moving in your political career.
the state is made up of people, an awful lot of them in case you haven't noticed. some good, some not. not much to do about the scammers and schemers except expose them for what they are when and wherever possible. they have always and will always live for themselves and nobody else. but there's no need to bring down the righteous folk who work right next to the scum but make none of the mess. who actually do have the interests of the children at heart. what you described is the goal of a whole host of mfers, but it ain't everybody.

what i described is an alternative curriculum that has been shown successful in certain instances. the option should be there. this has nothing much to do with whose giving the orders and their reasons for doing so. truth be told, most schools simply don't have the resources to implement shit like that. and most institutions are primarily interested in short term solutions, kicking the can down the road, instead of addressing chronic ills. but there's no law that says that's how they must always operate. history is always ripe for change.



A system built on force, on taking peoples money with the threat of violence, cannot produce positive results. Evil cannot produce good. Theft cannot produce prosperity. In the same way that murdering innocent people cannot end terrorism, and locking millions of weed smokers in prison cannot end drug abuse.

Forcing kids to learn state mandated material will never produce an ingenious society. You can tweak it as much as you want. Modify the rules all you want. But until school taxes are removed and education regulations are removed, the youth will continue their descent into the shadowy pits of glorified idiocy.
i really think you should rethink your analogies. they're way over the top for one thing, though i'll give you credit for topicality. they don't apply though.

i hear you on force. coercion rarely leads to positive results, and if it does, they're short lived. applies to a whole host of scenarios, you just laid out two. but teaching kids? have you met kids? just like adults, some are good, some are bad, some study, some don't, some are nice but just like to goof off, others have more significant problems than that and need more attention to "get right" so to speak. the adolescent period is easily THE most confusing part of a human being's life. and you want to completely get rid of not just slight coercion (yes, in comparison to locking up fiends and blowing up towelheads, this coercion is very slight), but even ditching general guidelines. there are rules in place because kids need them. it's easy to go astray, fall by the wayside. plenty needs to be changed, that much is clear, and that goes for... well, just about everywhere. but if you honestly think the answer to these complex psychological questions is taxes and regulations? maybe the fda thread is a better example of your narrow line of thought, but this is right up there.



it's interesting because i've heard you speak up for 'the people' before in arguing that nobody needs nanny protectionism, everybody can function economically and socially, and if lefties think grown adults need a financial baby sitter, that's just because they've lost faith in an ambitious vision for mankind.

and yet there are millions upon millions of civil servants in both of our countries. all of them people. all of them working for the dreaded state, whether to get by or to do good. don't those people deserve your faith too? if they're actively pursuing change and progress, what's wrong with the way they go about it?

it's because they go about it through an institution called government, publically funded through taxpayer dollars, democratically elected (however fraudulently) by citizens, and overseen by a giant system of shoulder tapping to make sure the guy next to you isn't embezzling. it's not perfect, but it's an institution with a purpose. and it's no more an indoctrination plantation than any other institution.

which isn't to say that it doesn't indoctrinate, but only to say that every institution indoctrinates. they help shape who we are as we interact with them and their procedures. it isn't an evenly split two way street, safe to say we're products of our surroundings much more than they're a product of us. but there are moments, more than that possibilities, of reform that people take advantage of and maybe, just maybe, they affect their agency for the better.

at least in a political system like ours, you've got a chance to get something done, however slight given the inefficiencies and complexities of civil bureaucracy. unlike working in the private sector, where your opinion only holds as much weight as the guy you go through to get it upstairs. such is the tyranny of private business. but nevermind this paragraph, i'm falling into hyperbole.

my general point, i suppose, to wrap up what turned into a waaaaaaay longer post than i intended, is that you're once again oversimplifying the issue and boiling it down to side issues that are far less systematic. indeed a lot of them are symptomatic, attempting to address problems and winding up only making them worse. that's not outside the realm of anybody's potential and everybody has potential. for good and for bad.

[Balla_Status]

And the world is just crawling with bright young minds today, ready to solve the challenges of the world?

I know quite a few. Not as many as we need. I understand where you're coming from though. The challenges of the world are technical challenges (in contrast to the past) so taking away math and science because someone doesn't like it would do nothing.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

He shouldn't have bragged to the others that his date was a pornstar! Nobody would've knew then.,