1984-85 Lakers shot an NBA team record 54.5 FG%

[Deuce Bigalow]

I thought handchecking made it tougher on offensive players? :confusedshrug:

From 1978-79 to 1987-88 the NBA League averaged over .480 FG% every season, as high as .492 FG% in 1983-84. The league now has been under .460 FG% every year since 1996-97.

[SunsCaptain]

dont care 1 way or another on this topic but i do believe players are more premeter orianted these days... Thus we might conclude this would drop the fg%?

[Deuce Bigalow]

dont care 1 way or another on this topic but i do believe players are more premeter orianted these days... Thus we might conclude this would drop the fg%?
But there is no handchecking anymore.

[SunsCaptain]

But there is no handchecking anymore.

Yes so i am saying when there was handchecking ppl played more in the paint thus a higher fg% now without handchecking they have fallen back to the premeter thus preducing a lower fg% thats all im saying.

[BlueandGold]

Yes but people took a lot less 3s.

[bwink23]

I thought handchecking made it tougher on offensive players? :confusedshrug:

From 1978-79 to 1987-88 the NBA League averaged over .480 FG% every season, as high as .492 FG% in 1983-84. The league now has been under .460 FG% every year since 1996-97.


ALOT LESS 3's......today's game actually has a HIGHER eFG% than the 1980's, and they score the ball at near identical efficiency from inside the 3-point line.....:no:

[Round Mound]

The 80s had a Better FG% because the Level of Play was Better.

Players had Way Better Fundamentals and Desicion Making back Then.

80s is the Golden Age for B-BALL...Best Level of Play Ever Per Team

It was Actually hard to have a Winning% Then.

[Deuce Bigalow]

ALOT LESS 3's......today's game actually has a HIGHER eFG% than the 1980's, and they score the ball at near identical efficiency from inside the 3-point line.....:no:
So essentially it's not easier to score now

[BlueCrayon]

It is common sense that if you have ever played basketball it is a lot harder to score with people allowed to give you bumps and hand check than with no contact at all.

[bwink23]

But there is no handchecking anymore.


As just ONE example....in 2010, the FG% inside the line was 49.2%, which is on par with the FG%'s of the 1980's.

[Micku]

Well, they did a lot of fast breaks for one. Especially the Lakers. Probably the best fastbreak team of all time.

Teams back then operated more inside then out. Teams didn't really guard the long range shot, but tried to pervert driving.

They only shot 295 three pointers in 82 games. The lowest 3pt attempts in today's game is 560, by the Memphis Grizzlies. And they played 47 games as oppose to 82 games like the 85 Lakers.


Handchecking stops a perimeter player from driving, and better on one on one defense. The league limited handchecking over the years from 70s to 80s to 90s to now.

[bwink23]

So essentially it's not easier to score now


And how did you come to that conclusion?? :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

It is common sense that if you have ever played basketball it is a lot harder to score with people allowed to give you bumps and hand check than with no contact at all.
but the % is lower now than what it was then.

[Deuce Bigalow]

eFG% is not higher now then then bwink

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%

2011-12: .485 eFG%

[bwink23]

but the % is lower now than what it was then.


NO THEY AREN'T.....:facepalm

[Micku]

You can also take eFG% too if you want, which adds value to the 3. I think the eFG is better nowadays than the 80s. It's because players now are better 3pt shooters.

[Da_Realist]

There were smarter players in the 80's. Teams worked to get the best shots. Guys took shots they know they can make in their sleep and they stuck to that. Not to mention better teamwork and ball movement that led to easier shots.

In today's game, players try their best to look as impressive as possible -- even if it lowers their shooting percentages. Ever play a guy in HORSE that only shot from the free throw line but would make 90% of those shots? While you're out behind the 3 point line or trying your new lefty reverse finger roll, he's spotting up at the free throw line shooting those boring as shots to victory every time. There were about 5 of those guys on every team back then. They didn't need to get the "highlight of the day" or try some fancy new move they taught themselves over the summer. They came off screens or ran a backdoor play and shot what they felt comfortable shooting every time. That increases a team's fg%.

That plus teams had more of an inside game back then. Today's game is purely perimeter based.

[bwink23]

eFG% is not higher now then then bwink

1984-85: .496 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%


1989 = .489eFG%
2008 = .497eFG%

ANYONE can cherry pick....aren't you talking about ERAS, not single seasons??

[Deuce Bigalow]

NO THEY AREN'T.....:facepalm
yes it is :facepalm

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

[SlayerEnraged]

eFG% is not higher now then then bwink

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%

2011-12: .485 eFG%

I love how ur charts Efg% is dropping...That exactly what was happening from the 80's_____> 90's when Mj becomes a hero lol.

[Legends66NBA7]

There were smarter players in the 80's. Teams worked to get the best shots. Guys took shots they know they can make in their sleep and they stuck to that. Not to mention better teamwork and ball movement that led to easier shots.

In today's game, players try their best to look as impressive as possible -- even if it lowers their shooting percentages. Ever play a guy in HORSE that only shot from the free throw line but would make 90% of those shots? While you're out behind the 3 point line or trying your new lefty reverse finger roll, he's spotting up at the free throw line shooting those boring as shots to victory every time. There were about 5 of those guys on every team back then. They didn't need to get the "highlight of the day" or try some fancy new move they taught themselves over the summer. They came off screens or ran a backdoor play and shot what they felt comfortable shooting every time. That increases a team's fg%.

That plus teams had more of an inside game back then. Today's game is purely perimeter based.

+1.

But I shall also piggy back this statement from something I posted another time:


Let's see, of the top 25 greatest passing offensive/efficient teams of all-time, Magic Johnson has been on 9 of them. He has been the main assist leader for 7 of them. 5 of these teams are in the Top 10 alone. 2 of them are in Top 3 and which includes the greatest passing offensive/efficient teams of all-time. Here they are:

1984-85 Lakers 118.2 pts 31.4ast 54.5%fg (Magic 12.6ast, Cooper 5.2ast) #1 all-time
1982-83 Lakers 115.0 pts 30.7ast 52.8%fg (Magic 10.5ast, Nixon 7.2ast) #3 all-time
1983-84 Lakers 115.6 pts 29.9ast 53.2%fg (Magic 13.1ast, Cooper 5.9ast) # 6 all-time
1985-86 Lakers 117.3 pts 29.7ast 52.2%fg (Magic 12.6ast, Cooper 5.7ast) # 8 all-time
1986-87 Lakers 117.8 pts 29.6ast 51.6%fg (Magic 12.2ast, Cooper 4.5ast) # 9 all-time
1979-80 Lakers 115.1 pts 29.4ast 52.9%fg (Nixon 7.8ast, Magic 7.3ast) # 12 all-time
1980-81 Lakers 111.2 pts 28.8ast 51.2%fg (Nixon 8.8ast, Magic 8.6ast - 37 games) # 17 all-time
1981-82 Lakers 114.6 pts 28.7ast 51.7%fg (Magic 9.5ast, Nixon 8.0ast) # 20 all-time
1987-88 Lakers 112.8 pts 28.6ast 50.5%fg (Magic 11.9ast, Cooper 4.7ast, Scott 4.1ast) #23 all-time

The 84-85 and 82-83 teams are 2 of 5 teams that have had averaged 30+ assists per game for a season. Magic is responsible for 2 of them, both of which went to the Finals (1-1). Not to mention every single one of those teams hit over 50%.

That basically alludes to the teamwork concept you were talking about. As for the Lakers... Magic just made things happen with those teams.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%


wow I've been lied to
It's supposed to be easier to score, when in reality it isn't.

[bwink23]

yes it is :facepalm

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html


NO it's not......:facepalm

Based on %'s from 3-point and 2-point conversions:

2008:

2-points = 48.5%FG
3-points = 36.2%FG

1989:

2-points = 49.0%FG
3-points = 32.3%FG


Hence, a HIGHER eFG% in 2008 vs. 1989.


Sorry to burst your trolling bubble there Baluka. :biggums:

[bwink23]

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%


wow I've been lied to
It's supposed to be easier to score


Of course those numbers allude to TOTAL SCORING, not just scoring on the perimeter where most of the rule changes have taken place.....:facepalm

You haven't been lied to, your just ignorant, not your fault your here to learn, maybe.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Of course those numbers allude to TOTAL SCORING, not just scoring on the perimeter where most of the rule changes have taken place.....:facepalm

You haven't been lied to, your just ignorant, not your fault your here to learn, maybe.
No. YOU"RE TOO ignorant

[iDefend5]

I thought handchecking made it tougher on offensive players? :confusedshrug:

From 1978-79 to 1987-88 the NBA League averaged over .480 FG% every season, as high as .492 FG% in 1983-84. The league now has been under .460 FG% every year since 1996-97.
Age: 17

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238968&page=2

[bwink23]

No. YOU"RE TOO i ignorant


I'm sorry i had to point out the retardedness of your posts....you have no argument, cuz even the numbers don't line up for you :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Age: 17

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238968&page=2
numbers don't lie


1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%

[Legends66NBA7]

I thought handchecking made it tougher on offensive players?

It made it tougher on perimeter players.

Why are you using a team stat ?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm sorry i had to point out the retardedness of your posts....you have no argument, cuz even the numbers don't line up for you :lol
You can't spell, so don't try retard

and here is the facts


1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%

[bwink23]

numbers don't lie


How about you check the AVERAGE eFG% per year of the number you just posted here...

84-97 = 49.1%eFG
2005-present = 49.4%eFG


Another big fat FAIL....:pimp:

[Deuce Bigalow]

It made it tougher on perimeter players.

Why are you using a team stat ?
this game is more perimeter based, and the eFG% is still the same :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

How about you check the AVERAGE eFG% per year of the number you just posted here...

84-97 = 49.1%eFG
2005-present = 49.4%eFG


Another big fat FAIL....:pimp:
:roll:
.3 difference

Exactly my point, that it's the same

You failed

[Cali Syndicate]

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%


wow I've been lied to
It's supposed to be easier to score, when in reality it isn't.

These are %'s for the entire league, so not sure how these numbers correlate to only perimeter scoring. Today's game is practically all perimeter oriented, and even with a perimeter oriented flow, the eFG% is still practically the same to an era where the game was played inside out.

[Legends66NBA7]

this game is more perimeter based

It didn't become more perimeter based until around the mid 2000's rule changes.

Why do you think there's drop off from post up big men and more and more perimeter players in Top 10 in scoring ?

Hell, even more big men are trying to take 3's.

eFG% is a team stat, again, what's that got to do with perimeter players scoring easier today with no handchecking ?

[bwink23]

:roll:
.3 difference

Exactly my point, that it's the same

You failed


That was NOT your point....your point was "Why are %'s down if the rules are supposed to ease scoring"....that was your point.

But now that you see the %'s were NOT different, your assuming a different stance...saying scoring is NOW similar, so how is scoring more difficult?? LOL!!!

Pick a side and stay on it kid.

:hammerhead:

[sbw19]

Inside-out game. Magic at the helm. Worthy finishing. Kareem shooting sky hooks. We talking handchecking?

[Deuce Bigalow]

That was NOT your point....your point was "Why are %'s down if the rules are supposed to ease scoring"....that was your point.

But now that you see the %'s were NOT different, your assuming a different stance...saying scoring is NOW similar, so how is scoring more difficult?? LOL!!!

Pick a side and stay on it kid.

:hammerhead:
My point was that it isnt easier to score now. which 0.3% fact proves my point
:pimp:

[bwink23]

:roll:
.3 difference

Exactly my point, that it's the same

You failed


The eFG% of the Laker in 1985 was 55.1%FG....and they were one of the greatest teams EVER.

The eFG% of the Phoenix Suns in the 2000's.

2005 Phoenix Suns = 53.4%eFG.
2006 Phoenix Suns = 53.7%eFG.
2007 Phoenix Suns = 55.7%eFG.
2008 Phoenix Suns = 55.8%eFG.
2009 Pheonix Suns = 54.5%eFG.
2010 Pheonix Suns = 54.6%eFG.


Compared to 55.1%eFG of the Lakers in 1985.

Doesn't look so crazy anymore does it????

[bwink23]

My point was that it isnt easier to score now. which 0.3% fact proves my point
:pimp:


Those %'s don't prove anything when more of the scoring load back in those days were from interior players.....

Several posters have already made you aware of this...

[Micku]

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%


wow I've been lied to
It's supposed to be easier to score, when in reality it isn't.

It's a pretty bad year in basketball in the offensive end. The commentators were saying that scoring and FG% were down because teams had less practice time and out of NBA shape.

Anyway, players back in the 80s didn't really defend the 3pt shot or long range shot like they do today. They only defended specialists or certain players who destroy them in their shooting. Handchecking is suppose to stop players from driving and give them less space. They also change the rules of posting up too.

Perimeter players do have it easier now though. The league constantly wanted to increase perimeter stars, so they made it easier to promote their play. It's no secret, and handchecking is apart of it.

Like right after Jordan left, the league wanted to increase scoring and perimeter play. They shorten the 3pt line and got rid of handchecking. They increase the lack of physical defense in the mid 00s too. The league adjusted and defending without fouling for a while. Zone made it easy for help defense, but one on one defense suffers today.

Regardless, inside-out is what the 80s and early 90s style of play was oppose to now. There were also better passing and getting the shot, and better offensive flow. Teams today are more organized and take longer for their plays and shots. It's a give and take thing.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Those %'s don't prove anything when more of the scoring load back in those days were from interior players.....

Several posters have already made you aware of this...
eFG% accounts for 3s so it does prove my point.

[bwink23]

eFG% accounts for 3s so it does prove my point.


And how does it do that.....:facepalm

[HighFlyer23]

the game changed and progressed ...

the 3 point shot was hardly used ... you only had a few specialists in 3s back then unlike now ...

[Deuce Bigalow]

And how does it do that.....:facepalm
EFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

[bwink23]

EFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html


I know what it is....but what's your point???

[Deuce Bigalow]

I know what it is....but what's your point???
It adjust for 3s taken

'84-'05
.491 eFG%

'06-present
.494 eFG%

Not easier to score today, well by 0.3 if that's anything

[bwink23]

It adjust for 3s taken. The perimeter shots are factored.

'84-'05
.491 eFG%

'06-present
.494 eFG%


It doesn't factor in the major difference in interior scoring during the 80's vs. today.....:no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

It doesn't factor in the major difference in interior scoring during the 80's vs. today.....:no:
eFG% measures 2s AND 3s.... :confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

It adjust for 3s taken

'84-'05
.491 eFG%

'06-present
.494 eFG%

Not easier to score today, well by 0.3 if that's anything


What straight league %'s fail to do is take into account WHO and WHERE those points are coming from....it's common knowledge the 80's were an interior game, and the interior players were doing a larger lion's share of scoring as compared to the perimeter-oriented game of today....


So how you gonna address that?? :coleman:

[HighFlyer23]

What straight league %'s fail to do is take into account WHO and WHERE those points are coming from....it's common knowledge the 80's were an interior game, and the interior players were doing a larger lion's share of scoring as compared to the perimeter-oriented game of today....


So how you gonna address that?? :coleman:

so for the majority of the time they had easier FGA that were closer to the basket and yet its easier to score today?

[Deuce Bigalow]

What straight league %'s fail to do is take into account WHO and WHERE those points are coming from....it's common knowledge the 80's were an interior game, and the interior players were doing a larger lion's share of scoring as compared to the perimeter-oriented game of today....


So how you gonna address that?? :coleman:
2s and 3s are measured by eFG%

FG% was higher back then also because more interior and less 3s

[Deuce Bigalow]

so for the majority of the time they had easier FGA that were closer to the basket and yet its easier to score today?
Actually it's not easier or harder to score today. It's literary the same based on eFG%

[bwink23]

so for the majority of the time they had easier FGA that were closer to the basket and yet its easier to score today?


AGAIN (sigh)....easier for WHO???

The 2-point FG%'s are nearly identical....the 3-point %'s favor the 2000's....

But the 80's had more interior players(NOT perimeter players) doing the bulk of the scoring....Today, the perimeter players are the ones doing the bulk of the scoring.

It's not that difficult kids.




Think of it like this.....Let's say 65% of the scoring in the 80's was done from the inside players, and 35% from the outside.

Today, that would be REVERSED....65% from the outside players, and 35% from the inside players...


Now who do the rules FAVOR?? the OUTSIDE players...

[bwink23]

Actually it's not easier or harder to score today. It's literary the same based on eFG%


Actually, it's literally the same based on 2-point conversions, but the 3-point %'s are better today.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Actually, it's literally the same based on 2-point conversions, but the 3-point %'s are better today.
Yes. It isn't easier to score in today's era or otherwise there would be facts to back it up.

[bwink23]

Actually it's not easier or harder to score today. It's literary the same based on eFG%


A real simple check for you guys would be this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html



Look at the # of perimeter players in the top 10 scoring in the 2000's vs the 1980's...it's not even close, and an excellent indicator of where and who was scoring the points.

[bwink23]

Yes. It isn't easier to score in today's era or otherwise there would be facts to back it up.


The facts lie in the eras of 1999-2004 vs. 2005-2010.

The effects were IMMEDIATE...both eras were guard-oriented. Both era's has near identical game pace...FT's skyrocketed post-rule changes, IMMEDIATELY.

The only real difference being the new rule interpretation for handchecking.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The facts lie in the eras of 1999-2004 vs. 2005-2010.

The effects were IMMEDIATE...both eras were guard-oriented. Both era's has near identical game pace...FT's skyrocketed post-rule changes, IMMEDIATELY.

The only real difference being the new rule interpretation for handchecking.
2004-05: 2137 FTA
2005-06: 2157 FTA

2004-05: 97.2 PPG
2005-06: 97.0 PPG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html

[bwink23]

2004-05: 2137 FTA
2005-06: 2157 FTA

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html


The new handcheck rule went into effect in during the 2004-2005 season.....:facepalm

[bwink23]

2004-05: 2137 FTA
2005-06: 2157 FTA

2004-05: 97.2 PPG
2005-06: 97.0 PPG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html






http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html


[B]2004-05

[Deuce Bigalow]

The new handcheck rule went into effect in during the 2004-2005 season.....:facepalm
:oldlol: my bad I typed the wrong '00

[bwink23]

:oldlol: my bad I typed the wrong '00


1999-2004 = 22 teams averaged 100 or more points.
2005-2010(after rule changes) = 64.

eFG%'s also increased by 2.5-3.5% every year....

And yeah the effects were IMMEDIATE.

2004 = 2 teams average 100+ points...47.1%eFG, 1,985 FTA per team.

2005(first year of new handcheck rule) - 6 teams 100+, 48.2%eFG, 2,137 FTA per team....

So in the first year of the new rule...

1. FG%'s went UP.
2. Overall team scoring went UP.
3. FT attempts per team went UP...

And it hasn't looked back since.....


BOTH eras were guard-oriented.....BOTH eras had identical game pace.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1999-2004 = 22 teams averaged 100 or more points.
2005-2010(after rule changes) = 64.

eFG%'s also increased by 2.5-3.5% every year....

And yeah the effects were IMMEDIATE.

2004 = 2 teams average 100+ points...47.1%eFG, 1,985 FTA per team.

2005(first year of new handcheck rule) - 6 teams 100+, 48.2%eFG, 2,137 FTA per team....

So in the first year of the new rule...

1. FG%'s went UP.
2. Overall team scoring went UP.
3. FT attempts per team went UP...

And it hasn't looked back since.....
2003-04: 1985 FTA
2004-05: 2137 FTA

2003-04: 93.4 PPG
2004-05: 97.2 PPG

big change, but the previous seasons

2002-03: 2004 FTA, 95.1 PPG
2001-02: 1995 FTA, 95.3 PPG


Lets look at 2009-10
2013 FTA with a higher Pace (92.7)

:confusedshrug:

came back down, and that's just a random year I'm sure the others were lower too with a higher pace

[bwink23]

2003-04: 1985 FTA
2004-05: 2137 FTA

2003-04: 93.4 PPG
2004-05: 97.2 PPG

big change, but the previous seasons

2002-03: 2004 FTA, 95.1 PPG
2001-02: 1995 FTA, 95.3 PPG


Lets look at 2009-10
2013 FTA with a higher Pace (92.7)

:confusedshrug:

came back down, and that's just a random year I'm sure the others were lower too with a higher pace



The game pace is still extremely comparable to that of the 1999-2004 era. What is NOT comparable is the overall scoring, eFG%, and FT attempts....

All factors that went up AFTER the handcheck rule.....

The rules were put there for a REASON....guess what, Mission accomplished.

[Deuce Bigalow]

BOTH eras had identical game pace.
:no:

Pace

2003-04: 90.1

2004-05: 90.9
2005-06: 90.5
2006-07: 91.9
2007-08: 92.4
2008-09: 91.7
2009-10: 92.7
2010-11: 92.1

[bwink23]

:no:

Pace

2003-04: 90.1

2004-05: 90.9
2005-06: 90.5
2006-07: 91.9
2007-08: 92.4
2008-09: 91.7
2009-10: 92.7


And how is that a big difference again??? :facepalm

Like i've said troll...the effects were immediate....as in, from the first year...

check the game pace of 2004 vs. 2005....yet 2005 is much better across the board offensively...

:facepalm

[SlayerEnraged]

The game pace is still extremely comparable to that of the 1999-2004 era. What is NOT comparable is the overall scoring, eFG%, and FT attempts....

All factors that went up AFTER the handcheck rule.....

The rules were put there for a REASON....guess what, Mission accomplished.

Let me just try to understand u...lets say they get rid of legalized zone and go back to hand checking/the 90s rules. Youre telling me so far in this 2011-12 season that Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, and Kevin Durant wouldn't be average 25+ ppg? Or what exactly are u saying would happen?

[SlayerEnraged]

And how is that a big difference again??? :facepalm

Like i've said troll...the effects were immediate....as in, from the first year...

check the game pace of 2004 vs. 2005....yet 2005 is much better across the board offensively...

:facepalm

Ur so stupid... Thats 1-2 extra posessions and with an efg % of above or around 50%, odds are that that would means teams would avg 2-4 more ppg.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And how is that a big difference again??? :facepalm

Like i've said troll...the effects were immediate....as in, from the first year...

check the game pace of 2004 vs. 2005....yet 2005 is much better across the board offensively...

:facepalm
that is just one year, you said eras

the differences in the ERAS isn't big

In '10 when the Pace was almost 2 higher than '05 yet the FTA were back to pre 2004

[bwink23]

Ur so stupid... Thats 1-2 extra posessions and with an efg % of above or around 50%, odds are that that would means teams would avg 2-4 more ppg.


Uh.....NO IT WOULD NOT.....:facepalm

[bwink23]

that is just one year, you said eras


I used those years to show that the effects of the new handcheck rules were felt right away....

2004 = pre-handcheck
2005 = post-hancheck

Nearly identical game pace....now look at the differences...

[Deuce Bigalow]

I used those years to show that the effects of the new handcheck rules were felt right away....

2004 = pre-handcheck
2005 = post-hancheck

Nearly identical game pace....now look at the differences...
2009-10: 2013 FTA

2002-03: 2004 FTA

Why did it go back down to pre handchecking amount of FTA even though the pace in '10 was higher?

[SlayerEnraged]

Uh.....NO IT WOULD NOT.....:facepalm
Yes it would. Lets take a look at a sample year. Heck I'll even make it be one of ur cupcake 90s years. Lets choose 1993.

The pace was 96.8 in 1993. So in those 96.8 posessions they averaged 105.3ppg. In other words they averaged 1.09 Points per possesion. So if u take away that difference of around 2 possesions per game, would mean that teams would have scored 103.12ppg. That little more than 2ppg difference is literally it the scoring increased by LOL!

[bwink23]

Ur so stupid... Thats 1-2 extra posessions and with an efg % of above or around 50%, odds are that that would means teams would avg 2-4 more ppg.


Just to give you a random example of how that's a straight up STUPID and UNEDUCATED assumption....

In 2009, the Kings had a game pace of 94.2 and averaged 100.6 points a game...

That same year, the Mavs had a game pace of 91.5 and averaged 101.7 points a game.

In fact, 5 teams had a lower game pace than the Kings but still averaged more ppg in 2009.
:no:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://ashoknayar.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/dog-chasing-its-own-tail.jpg

[bwink23]

2009-10: 2013 FTA

2002-03: 2004 FTA

Why did it go back down to pre handchecking amount of FTA even though the pace in '10 was higher?


Off year?? Maybe teams are adapting to not fouling so much...game dynamics change. But the shooting the scoring is still better now from an overall and efficiency standpoint.

[bwink23]

http://ashoknayar.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/dog-chasing-its-own-tail.jpg


Pretty much....just giving the paddle to a couple ignorant kids trying to deny the OBVIOUS, LOL!


Is it coincidence they both are still in their teens?

[stephanieg]

Because the '80s Lakers were stacked like Pancakes.

[SlayerEnraged]

Just to give you a random example of how that's a straight up STUPID and UNEDUCATED assumption....

In 2009, the Kings had a game pace of 94.2 and averaged 100.6 points a game...

That same year, the Mavs had a game pace of 91.5 and averaged 101.7 points a game.

In fact, 5 teams had a lower game pace than the Kings but still averaged more ppg in 2009.
:no:

That's efficiency of 2 different teams....nothing to do with what we were talking about at all. read my above example which mathmatically is exactly what would happen if there was 2 less posessions per game. It's exactly like using Mj's pps to estimate how many ppg he will average is he shoots a certain ammount of shots. Its gonna be very close to accurate.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Off year?? Maybe teams are adapting to not fouling so much...game dynamics change. But the shooting the scoring is still better now from an overall and efficiency standpoint.
So it's an "off year" if it doesn't fit your agenda?
maybe 2003-04 was an off year aswell?

[bwink23]

That's efficiency of 2 different teams....nothing to do with what we were talking about at all. read my above example which mathmatically is exactly what would happen if there was 2 less posessions per game. It's exactly like using Mj's pps to estimate how many ppg he will average is he shoots a certain ammount of shots. Its gonna be very close to accurate.


Actually no....it shows possessions difference of 2-4 are extremely insignificant....

PPS?? Not even gonna address that garbage. PPS is far too effected by officiating.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pretty much....just giving the paddle to a couple ignorant kids trying to deny the OBVIOUS, LOL!


Is it coincidence they both are still in their teens?
:wtf:

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%

It's already over and you know it

[bwink23]

So it's an "off year" if it doesn't fit your agenda?
maybe 2003-04 was an off year aswell?


No....1999-2004 is an era in itself...and all those years are comparable.

That's why i averaged out the era, not just a cherry-picked year...

[bwink23]

:wtf:

1984-85: .496 eFG%
1985-86: .493 eFG%
1986-87: .488 eFG%
1987-88: .489 eFG%
1988-89: .489 eFG%
1989-90: .489 eFG%
1990-91: .487 eFG%
1991-92: .487 eFG%
1992-93: .491 eFG%
1993-94: .485 eFG%
1994-95: .500 eFG%
1995-96: .499 eFG%
1996-97: .493 eFG%

2004-05: .482 eFG%
2005-06: .490 eFG%
2006-07: .497 eFG%
2007-08: .497 eFG%
2008-09: .500 eFG%
2009-10: .501 eFG%
2010-11: .498 eFG%
2011-12: .485 eFG%

It's already over and you know it


AGAIN KID....how are you going to account for WHO AND WHERE the scoring was coming from??

[Deuce Bigalow]

No....1999-2004 is an era in itself...and all those years are comparable.

That's why i averaged out the era, not just a cherry-picked year...
when you average both eras the difference in eFG% is 0.3, so what the problem?

[Deuce Bigalow]

AGAIN KID....how are you going to account for WHO AND WHERE the scoring was coming from??
eFG% accounts for that. 2s and 3s.

[bwink23]

when you average both eras the difference in eFG% is 0.3, so what the problem?


No....I'm talking the eras of 1999-2004 vs. 2005-2010...after all it was the 1999-2004 era that spawned the rule changes in the first place...

They have common denominators....both are perimeter-oriented eras, both have comparable game pace...

Can you say the same about the 1980's??

[bwink23]

eFG% accounts for that. 2s and 3s.


Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 2000's??

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 1980's??

[SlayerEnraged]

No....1999-2004 is an era in itself...and all those years are comparable.

That's why i averaged out the era, not just a cherry-picked year...

1999 was a lockout year and complete garbage=low ppg players and teams. 2004 was an off year. thats 2/5 years where its a totally bogus comparison and its a whole new set of players. There werent Rose's, Durants,Westbrookes,Wades,Carmellos,Lebrons, etc. Back then the best perimiter players were Kobe,Tmac, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, a.I, Ray Allen and guys like that. Ray Allens and Paul Pierces don't come close to LBJ, Carmello,Wade, Etc. THats why better production. Plus my math proves exactly what would happen if there was 2 less posessions per game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 2000's??

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 1980's??
'80s had much more better 4s and 5s :confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

1999 was a lockout year and complete garbage=low ppg players and teams. 2004 was an off year. thats 2/5 years where its a totally bogus comparison and its a whole new set of players. There werent Rose's, Durants,Westbrookes,Wades,Carmellos,Lebrons, etc. Back then the best perimiter players were Kobe,Tmac, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, a.I, Ray Allen and guys like that. Ray Allens and Paul Pierces don't come close to LBJ, Carmello,Wade, Etc. THats why better production. Plus my math proves exactly what would happen if there was 2 less posessions per game.


Sorry kid, but a handful of perimeter players doesn't account for the major improvement in league-wide scoring...

[Legends66NBA7]

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 2000's??

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 1980's??

I'll be posting that in a moments time...

[Deuce Bigalow]

No....I'm talking the eras of 1999-2004 vs. 2005-2010...after all it was the 1999-2004 era that spawned the rule changes in the first place...

They have common denominators....both are perimeter-oriented eras, both have comparable game pace...

Can you say the same about the 1980's??
that is cherrypicking when you remove '84-97

[Pushxx]

3-point shot frequency was totally different.

[bwink23]

'80s had much more better 4s and 5s :confusedshrug:


There you go.....so your trying to compare league %'s from 2 different leagues then..

1980's - more bigs scoring inside = higher % shots.

2000's - more perimeter players scoring on lower % shots....yet the %'s are nearly identical.....HMMMM....

the rule changes are for the PERIMETER....keyword, PERIMETER

[bwink23]

that is cherrypicking when you remove '84-97


different eras.

[SlayerEnraged]

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 2000's??

Who were most of the top 10 scoring leaders in the 1980's??

This copy and paste probably won't work and look all neat and organized but this shows exactly what happened in the 80's vs the 90's.

Ur theory would maybe half way float in water if the 80's and other generations perimiter players struggled with hand checking but the only ones that did were the 90's.

Player 1984-85
Bernard King-NYK 32.9
Larry Bird*-BOS 28.7
Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.2
Purvis Short-GSW 28
Alex English*-DEN 27.9
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 27.4
Adrian Dantley*-UTA 26.6
Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.7
Moses Malone*-PHI 24.6
Terry Cummings-MIL 23.6
Calvin Natt-DEN 23.3
Orlando Woolridge-CHI 22.9
Eddie Johnson-KCK 22.9
Darrell Griffith-UTA 22.6
World B. Free-CLE 22.5
Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 22.4
Mike Mitchell-SAS 22.2
Derek Smith-LAC 22.1
Ralph Sampson-HOU 22.1
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*-LAL 22
Player 1985-86
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 30.3
Adrian Dantley*-UTA 29.8
Alex English*-DEN 29.8
Larry Bird*-BOS 25.8
Purvis Short-GSW 25.5
Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 24.8
Moses Malone*-PHI 23.8
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 23.5
Mike Mitchell-SAS 23.4
World B. Free-CLE 23.4
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*-LAL 23.4
Mark Aguirre-DAL 22.6
Jeff Malone-WSB 22.4
Walter Davis-PHO 21.8
Rolando Blackman-DAL 21.5
Kevin McHale*-BOS 21.3
Joe Barry Carroll-GSW 21.2
Isiah Thomas*-DET 20.9
Orlando Woolridge-CHI 20.7
Marques Johnson-LAC 20.3
Player 1986-87
Michael Jordan*-CHI 37.1
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 29
Alex English*-DEN 28.6
Larry Bird*-BOS 28.1
Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 26.9
Kevin McHale*-BOS 26.1
Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.7
Dale Ellis-SEA 24.9
Moses Malone*-WSB 24.1
Magic Johnson*-LAL 23.9
Walter Davis-PHO 23.6
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 23.4
Tom Chambers-SEA 23.3
Xavier McDaniel-SEA 23
Charles Barkley*-PHI 23
Ron Harper-CLE 22.9
Larry Nance-PHO 22.5
Jeff Malone-WSB 22
Clyde Drexler*-POR 21.7
Karl Malone*-UTA 21.7
Player 1987-88
Michael Jordan*-CHI 35
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 30.7
Larry Bird*-BOS 29.9
Charles Barkley*-PHI 28.3
Karl Malone*-UTA 27.7
Clyde Drexler*-POR 27
Dale Ellis-SEA 25.8
Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.1
Alex English*-DEN 25
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 22.8
Kevin McHale*-BOS 22.6
Byron Scott-LAL 21.7
Reggie Theus-SAC 21.6
Xavier McDaniel-SEA 21.4
Terry Cummings-MIL 21.3
Otis Thorpe-SAC 20.8
Jeff Malone-WSB 20.5
Tom Chambers-SEA 20.4
Moses Malone*-WSB 20.3
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 20.2
Player 1988-89
Michael Jordan*-CHI 32.5
Karl Malone*-UTA 29.1
Dale Ellis-SEA 27.5
Clyde Drexler*-POR 27.2
Chris Mullin*-GSW 26.5
Alex English*-DEN 26.5
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 26.2
Charles Barkley*-PHI 25.8
Tom Chambers-PHO 25.7
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 24.8
Terry Cummings-MIL 22.9
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 22.7
Kelly Tripucka-CHH 22.6
Kevin McHale*-BOS 22.5
Magic Johnson*-LAL 22.5
Mitch Richmond-GSW 22
Jeff Malone-WSB 21.7
Chuck Person-IND 21.6
Eddie Johnson-PHO 21.5
Bernard King-WSB 20.7
Player 1989-90
Michael Jordan*-CHI 33.6
Karl Malone*-UTA 31
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 28.6
Tom Chambers-PHO 27.2
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 26.7
Charles Barkley*-PHI 25.2
Chris Mullin*-GSW 25.1
Reggie Miller-IND 24.6
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 24.3
David Robinson*-SAS 24.3
Jeff Malone-WSB 24.3
Larry Bird*-BOS 24.3
Clyde Drexler*-POR 23.3
Tony Campbell-MIN 23.2
Kevin Johnson-PHO 22.5
Terry Cummings-SAS 22.4
Bernard King-WSB 22.4
Magic Johnson*-LAL 22.3
Wayman Tisdale-SAC 22.3
Mitch Richmond-GSW 22.1
Player 1990-91
Michael Jordan*-CHI 31.5
Karl Malone*-UTA 29
Bernard King-WSB 28.4
Charles Barkley*-PHI 27.6
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 26.6
Michael Adams-DEN 26.5
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 25.9
Chris Mullin*-GSW 25.7
David Robinson*-SAS 25.6
Mitch Richmond-GSW 23.9
Tim Hardaway-GSW 22.9
Reggie Miller-IND 22.6
Kevin Johnson-PHO 22.2
Hersey Hawkins-PHI 22.1
Tony Campbell-MIN 21.8
Brad Daugherty-CLE 21.6
Clyde Drexler*-POR 21.5
James Worthy*-LAL 21.4
Ricky Pierce-TOT 20.5
Joe Dumars*-DET 20.4
Player 1991-92
Michael Jordan*-CHI 30.1
Karl Malone*-UTA 28
Chris Mullin*-GSW 25.6
Clyde Drexler*-POR 25
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 24
Tim Hardaway-GSW 23.4
David Robinson*-SAS 23.2
Charles Barkley*-PHI 23.1
Mitch Richmond-SAC 22.5
Glen Rice-MIA 22.3
Ricky Pierce-SEA 21.7
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 21.6
Brad Daugherty-CLE 21.5
Scottie Pippen*-CHI 21
Reggie Lewis-BOS 20.8
Reggie Miller-IND 20.7
Drazen Petrovic*-NJN 20.6
Kendall Gill-CHH 20.5
Jeff Malone-UTA 20.2
Jeff Hornacek-PHO 20.1
Player 1992-93
Michael Jordan*-CHI 32.6
Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 29.9
Karl Malone*-UTA 27
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 26.1
Charles Barkley*-PHO 25.6
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 24.2
Joe Dumars*-DET 23.5
Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 23.4
David Robinson*-SAS 23.4
Danny Manning-LAC 22.8
Drazen Petrovic*-NJN 22.3
Larry Johnson-CHH 22.1
Tim Hardaway-GSW 21.5
Reggie Miller-IND 21.2
Alonzo Mourning-CHH 21
Reggie Lewis-BOS 20.8
Derrick Coleman-NJN 20.7
Hersey Hawkins-PHI 20.3
Brad Daugherty-CLE 20.2
Nick Anderson-ORL 19.9
Player 1994-95
Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 29.3
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 27.8
David Robinson*-SAS 27.6
Karl Malone*-UTA 26.7
Jamal Mashburn-DAL 24.1
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 23.9
Charles Barkley*-PHO 23
Mitch Richmond-SAC 22.8
Glen Rice-MIA 22.3
Glenn Robinson-MIL 21.9
Clyde Drexler*-TOT 21.8
Scottie Pippen*-CHI 21.4
Clifford Robinson-POR 21.3
Alonzo Mourning-CHH 21.3
Anfernee Hardaway-ORL 20.9
Gary Payton-SEA 20.6
Latrell Sprewell-GSW 20.6
Dana Barros-PHI 20.6
Isaiah Rider-MIN 20.4
Grant Hill-DET 19.9
Player 1995-96
Michael Jordan*-CHI 30.4
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 26.9
Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 26.6
Karl Malone*-UTA 25.7
David Robinson*-SAS 25
Charles Barkley*-PHO 23.2
Alonzo Mourning-MIA 23.2
Mitch Richmond-SAC 23.1
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 22.5
Juwan Howard-WSB 22.1
Anfernee Hardaway-ORL 21.7
Glen Rice-CHH 21.6
Cedric Ceballos-LAL 21.2
Reggie Miller-IND 21.1
Vin Baker-MIL 21.1
Clifford Robinson-POR 21.1
Larry Johnson-CHH 20.5
Glenn Robinson-MIL 20.2
Grant Hill-DET 20.2
Sean Elliott-SAS 20
Player 1996-97
Michael Jordan*-CHI 29.6
Karl Malone*-UTA 27.4
Glen Rice-CHH 26.8
Mitch Richmond-SAC 25.9
Latrell Sprewell-GSW 24.2
Allen Iverson-PHI 23.5
Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 23.2
Patrick Ewing*-NYK 22.4
Kendall Gill-NJN 21.8
Gary Payton-SEA 21.8
Reggie Miller-IND 21.6
Grant Hill-DET 21.4
Glenn Robinson-MIL 21.1
Vin Baker-MIL 21
Jerry Stackhouse-PHI 20.7
Tom Gugliotta-MIN 20.6
Tim Hardaway-MIA 20.3
Scottie Pippen*-CHI 20.2
Damon Stoudamire-TOR 20.2
Kevin Johnson-PHO 20.1
Player 1997-98
Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.7
Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 28.3
Karl Malone*-UTA 27
Mitch Richmond-SAC 23.2
Antoine Walker-BOS 22.4
Shareef Abdur-Rahim-VAN 22.3
Glen Rice-CHH 22.3
Allen Iverson-PHI 22
Chris Webber-WAS 21.9
David Robinson*-SAS 21.6
Michael Finley-DAL 21.5
Grant Hill-DET 21.1
Tim Duncan-SAS 21.1
Steve Smith-ATL 20.1
Isaiah Rider-POR 19.7
Sam Cassell-NJN 19.6
Ray Allen-MIL 19.5
Reggie Miller-IND 19.5
Vin Baker-SEA 19.2
Gary Payton-SEA 19.2

[Deuce Bigalow]

There you go.....so your trying to compare league %'s from 2 different leagues then..

1980's - more bigs scoring inside = higher % shots.

2000's - more perimeter players scoring on lower % shots....yet the %'s are nearly identical.....HMMMM....

the rule changes are for the PERIMETER....keyword, PERIMETER
Wrong

In the '80s the FG% was in the .480%s

In the '00s and '10 the FG% was in the .450%s

But when you account for the 3, using the eFG% there both in the .490%s

[bwink23]

that is cherrypicking when you remove '84-97


Let me ask you this question....what makes you think you can do a straight comparison of league %'s.....2000's vs. 1980's, when you know for a fact that the bigs of the 1980s were doing a larger bulk of the scoring vs. the 2000's??

Answer that please.

[bwink23]

Wrong

In the '80s the FG% was in the .480%s

In the '00s and '10 the FG% was in the .450%s

But when you account for the 3, using the eFG% there both in the .490%s


WRONG....you have to subtract the 3's if you want to get the true FG%, NOT including 3's.

[SlayerEnraged]

Wrong

In the '80s the FG% was in the .480%s

In the '00s and '10 the FG% was in the .450%s

But when you account for the 3, using the eFG% there both in the .490%s

Look what else happened in the 90's.

Season # of 30 PPG seasons perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 29 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 28 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 27 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 26 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 25 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ
1990-1991 0 0 1 1 2 3
1991-92 0 0 0 0 0 2
1992-93 0 1 1 1 1 1
1994-95 0 0 0 0 0 0
1995-96 0 0 0 0 0 0
1996-97 0 0 0 0 1 2
1997-98 0 0 0 0 0 0





FACTS
1. There were 2 Perimeter Players besides Jordan averaging 30ppg for a season from 1984-1990 vs. 0 from the 7 years that Jordan played in the 90

[Deuce Bigalow]

WRONG....you have to subtract the 3's if you want to get the true FG%, NOT including 3's.
That isn't wrong though, those were the FG%
The eFG% which accounts for the 3s is in the .490 range for both

[bwink23]

That isn't wrong though, those were the FG%
The eFG% which accounts for the 3s is in the .490 range for both


Those were the FG%'s INCLUDING 3's....BUT, the 3-point shot back then was a rarely used tool of the game....WHY?? Cuz like i said, it was an INTERIOR game back then....:facepalm

As a random example....2008 = 48.5%FG( from 2) and 36.2%FG(from 3).

1988 = 49.0%FG(from 2) and 31.6%FG(from 3).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Look what else happened in the 90's.

Season # of 30 PPG seasons perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 29 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 28 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 27 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 26 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ # of 25 PPG Perimeter Players Besides MJ
1990-1991 0 0 1 1 2 3
1991-92 0 0 0 0 0 2
1992-93 0 1 1 1 1 1
1994-95 0 0 0 0 0 0
1995-96 0 0 0 0 0 0
1996-97 0 0 0 0 1 2
1997-98 0 0 0 0 0 0


:biggums:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Those were the FG%'s INCLUDING 3's....BUT, the 3-point shot back then was a rarely used tool of the game....WHY?? Cuz like i said, it was an INTERIOR game back then....:facepalm

As a random example....2008 = 48.5%FG( from 2) and 36.2%FG(from 3).

1988 = 49.0%FG(from 2) and 31.6%FG(from 3).
See? It's not easier to score now, they are basically the same
Like I've been saying already....

[juju151111]

How can u compare them when they took more 3 point shots now and 80s were more inside

[Deuce Bigalow]

How can u compare them when they took more 3 point shots now and 80s were more inside
eFG%

If you took 3s it accounted for them, if you didn't then it doesn't change the %

[bwink23]

See? It's not easier to score now, they are basically the same
Like I've been saying already....



But you still haven't answered WHO was doing the scoring....

:hammerhead:

[bwink23]

eFG%

If you took 3s it accounted for them, if you didn't then it doesn't change the %


ARE YOU JUST TROLLING NOW, or do you legitimately don't get it??

[Deuce Bigalow]

ARE YOU JUST TROLLING NOW, or do you legitimately don't get it??
Do you not get it?

If you don't takes 3 then the eFG% won't change, it would just be your FG%

If you go 40-80, 0-0 from 3. Your eFG% is 50.0%, same as your FG% since no 3s were taken

[Deuce Bigalow]

But you still haven't answered WHO was doing the scoring....

:hammerhead:
1984-85
Points Per Game
1. Bernard King-NYK 32.9
2. Larry Bird*-BOS 28.7
3. Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.2
4. Purvis Short-GSW 28.0
5. Alex English*-DEN 27.9

All Guards/Forwards

[SlayerEnraged]

But you still haven't answered WHO was doing the scoring....

:hammerhead:

Ur theory is completely ridiculous because the teams best player is the one who the offense revolves around. the 90's perimiter players sucked but they had good bigs. The 2000's players centers started to really decline once shaq got older. The best players on teams get the ball more and its that simple. Permiter players scoring today is cause they're the best ones on their team. And actually theres a lots of good pf's in todays game so no it itsn't permiter players doing all the scoring either.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1985-86
Points Per Game
1. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 30.3
2. Adrian Dantley*-UTA 29.8
3. Alex English*-DEN 29.8
4. Larry Bird*-BOS 25.8
5. Purvis Short-GSW25.5

All Gaurds/Forwards

[bwink23]

Do you not get it?

If you don't takes 3 then the eFG% won't change, it would just be your FG%

If you go 40-80, 0-0 from 3. Your eFG% is 50.0%, same as your FG% since no 3s were taken


But the %'s don't address where the points are coming from...interior or perimeter...


Do you agree that on this:

1980's = interior scorers.....

2000's = perimeter scorers

AGREE??

[Deuce Bigalow]

1986-87
1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 37.1
2. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 29.0
3. Alex English*-DEN 28.6
4. Larry Bird*-BOS 28.1
5. Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 26.9

All Guards/Forwards

[bwink23]

1984-85
Points Per Game
1. Bernard King-NYK 32.9
2. Larry Bird*-BOS 28.7
3. Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.2
4. Purvis Short-GSW 28.0
5. Alex English*-DEN 27.9

All Guards/Forwards


You got that top 10 scoring list for me??

I'm not talking a handful of players, i'm talking league-wide.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1987-88
1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 35.0
2. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 30.7
3. Larry Bird*-BOS 29.9
4. Charles Barkley*-PHI 28.3
5. Karl Malone*-UTA 27.7

2 PFs

[SlayerEnraged]

1984-85
Points Per Game
1. Bernard King-NYK 32.9
2. Larry Bird*-BOS 28.7
3. Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.2
4. Purvis Short-GSW 28.0
5. Alex English*-DEN 27.9

All Guards/Forwards

Thats when the guards and perimiter players were still good. He's to stupid to understand that the best players on a team are gonna average the most ppg. He probably thinks that all the perimiter players today would be worse in that 90's era even though the 90's perimiter opposition was so poor that a 34 year old bernard king could average 28.4ppg. Todays perimiter players would smoke those 90's nobodies perimiter players.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You got that top 10 scoring list for me??

I'm not talking a handful of players, i'm talking league-wide.
cant find the top 10, bball ref has top 5 in each season summary though

[Deuce Bigalow]

Thats when the guards and perimiter players were still good. He's to stupid to understand that the best players on a team are gonna average the most ppg. He probably thinks that all the perimiter players today would be worse in that 90's era even though the 90's perimiter opposition was so poor that a 34 year old bernard king could average 28.4ppg. Todays perimiter players would smoke those 90's nobodies perimiter players.
Bbbut but but theres handchecking!....% would plumet....:lol

[bwink23]

1987-88
1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 35.0
2. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 30.7
3. Larry Bird*-BOS 29.9
4. Charles Barkley*-PHI 28.3
5. Karl Malone*-UTA 27.7

2 PFs


Since when were Karl Malone, Barkley perimeter players??


Are you trying to make a case that both eras were perimeter-oriented games??? :biggums:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Since when were Karl Malone, Barkley perimeter players??


Are you trying to a case that both eras were perimeter-oriented games??? :biggums:
can you not read i put "2 PFs" on the bottom to say like those 2 were not perimeter :facepalm

[bwink23]

can you not read i put "2 PFs" on the bottom to say like those 2 were not perimeter :facepalm


But are trying to make the case that both eras were perimter-oriented??

[Deuce Bigalow]

But are trying to make the case that both eras were perimter-oriented??
no. I'm saying that there was plenty of perimeter scoring

[SlayerEnraged]

Bbbut but but theres handchecking!....% would plumet....:lol

Even worse...the guys were monsters i mean scary 6 '3 190 joe dumars being allowing to put his hand on u..its tttterrifyyyying!

[bwink23]

Even worse...the guys were monsters i mean scary 6 '3 190 joe dumars being allowing to put his hand on u..its tttterrifyyyying!


considering Kobe said scary 6'3" Eric Snow was his best defender in 2002?? :confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

no. I'm saying that there was plenty of perimeter scoring


HARDLY like it is today.....:rolleyes:

Which is why those league %'s are NULL and VOID from making a comparison of those eras....

[Deuce Bigalow]

HARDLY like it is today.....:rolleyes:

Which is why those league %'s are NULL and VOID from making a comparison of those eras....
Hardly?

A perimeter player by the name of Michael Jordan, ever heard of him? won 10 scoring titles, 10 !

Did you see the top 5s I posted in the '80s? All to most were perimeter players

[bwink23]

Hardly?

A perimeter player by the name of Michael Jordan, ever hear of him? won 10 scoring titles, 10 !

Did you see the top 5s I posted in the '80s? All to most were perimeter players

The only true perimeter players (guys who worked with ball in hand on the wings) was Michael Jordan and Larry Bird...and Bird did much of his work inside as well...

Dominique to an extent...English relied on getting the ball in mid-range FROM the perimeter players....as did Nique.

[bwink23]

Hardly?

A perimeter player by the name of Michael Jordan, ever heard of him? won 10 scoring titles, 10 !

Did you see the top 5s I posted in the '80s? All to most were perimeter players


Michael Jordan is but ONE guy.

[SlayerEnraged]

The only true perimeter players (guys who worked with ball in hand on the wings) was Michael Jordan and Larry Bird...and Bird did much of his work inside as well...

Dominique to an extent...English relied on getting the ball in mid-range FROM the perimeter players....as did Nique.

The difference is between now and back then is athletism. Players today could walk faster than stockton, etc could run. Im not saying u cant be good if u aren't fast or athletic but that's the major difference and why they they are able to be dominant.

[bwink23]

Hardly?

A perimeter player by the name of Michael Jordan, ever heard of him? won 10 scoring titles, 10 !

Did you see the top 5s I posted in the '80s? All to most were perimeter players



Even your not too stupid to know, that the balance of scoring between interior and perimeter players is much different in those era's, right???

[Deuce Bigalow]

Michael Jordan is but ONE guy.
Benard King, Larry Bird, Alex English, Purvis Short, Dominique Wilkins, Adrian Dantley

[Deuce Bigalow]

Even your not too stupid to know, that the balance of scoring between interior and perimeter players is much different in those era's, right???
Not as big as you're making it out to be

[bwink23]

Benard King, Larry Bird, Alex English, Purvis Short, Dominique Wilkins, Adrian Dantley


Purvis Short, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, and Bernard King were NOT perimeter players....

Larry Bird was a tweener...double duty if you will, and Wilkins was similar.

[bwink23]

Not as big as you're making it out to be


actually much bigger than your making it to be....:D

We haven't even got into the point guards yet.....

The scoring wing players goes much deeper than the top 10 scoring spots.

[Sarcastic]

They shot THAT good because Magic Johnson was THAT FCKING good!!!

[bwink23]

Not as big as you're making it out to be


IN this era...you have:

1. 2-time MVP point guard Nash.
2. Finals MVP chauncey billups and tony parker.
3. League MVP Derrick Rose.
4. 4-time scoring champ Allen Iverson (6'1") and MVP.


I don't think that happened, or anything similar in the 1980s

[Deuce Bigalow]

IN this era...you have:

1. 2-time MVP point guard Nash.
2. Finals MVP chauncey billups and tony parker.
3. League MVP Derrick Rose.
4. 4-time scoring champ Allen Iverson (6'1") and MVP.


I don't think that happened, or anything similar in the 1980s
Magic Johnson was a PG and won 3 Finals MVPs and 3 MVPs

[bwink23]

Magic Johnson was a PG and won 3 Finals MVPs and 3 MVPs


Yes he was....and he was 6'9".....:rolleyes:

and the GOAT PG ever.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes he was....and he was 6'9".....:rolleyes:

and the GOAT PG ever.
Isiah was Lead Dog of 2 championships

No PG was lead dog since then

[SlayerEnraged]

IN this era...you have:

1. 2-time MVP point guard Nash.
2. Finals MVP chauncey billups and tony parker.
3. League MVP Derrick Rose.
4. 4-time scoring champ Allen Iverson (6'1") and MVP.


I don't think that happened, or anything similar in the 1980s

How are u so stupid that u can't realize that the best players are gonna have the best numbers and better acclades and awards like ur saying? The 2000's teams best player on each team was generally a perimiter player. Write us an essay of why 80's perimiter players were good and 90's ones weren't.

[bwink23]

How are u so stupid that u can't realize that the best players are gonna have the best numbers and better acclades and awards like ur saying? The 2000's teams best player on each team was generally a perimiter player. Write us an essay of why 80's perimiter players were good and 90's ones weren't.

Were they that bad?? You think they were bad cuz they weren't doing the bulk of the scoring, like they are now??

Which happens to be the reason behind this argument....:hammerhead:

[bwink23]

Isiah was Lead Dog of 2 championships

No PG was lead dog since then


Yet it was Joe Dumars who won Finals MVP?? and guarded the other team's best perimeter player? :confusedshrug:

and after Isiah, Magic led his team back to the NBA Finals in 1991.

[TheBigVeto]

Starting that season David Stern instituted a rule: The Lakers cannot be defended by opposing team so that they could win it all. And they did.

[bwink23]

Isiah was Lead Dog of 2 championships

No PG was lead dog since then


I don't know where your going with this....cuz there is ZERO argument against today's wing players doing a larger chunk of the scoring vs. the 1980's or 90's... :biggums:

[bwink23]

How about those Suns and their 55.8% eFG percentage ?? :hammertime:

[Deuce Bigalow]

How about those Suns and their 55.8% eFG percentage ?? :hammertime:
47.9 FG%

[bwink23]

47.9 FG%


1985 Lakers

55.5% shooting from inside the arc.
30.5% from 3.

2007 Suns

53.2% shooting from inside the arc.
39.9% from 3.



:party:

[Legends66NBA7]

1979-80 Points Per Game
1. George Gervin-SAS 33.1
2. World B. Free-SDC 30.2
3. Adrian Dantley-UTA 28.0
4. Julius Erving-PHI 26.9
5. Moses Malone-HOU 25.8
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 24.8
7. Dan Issel-DEN 23.8
8. Elvin Hayes-WSB 23.0
9. Otis Birdsong-KCK 22.7
10. Mike Mitchell-CLE 22.2
11. Gus Williams-SEA 22.1
12. Paul Westphal-PHO 21.9
13. Bill Cartwright-NYK 21.7
14. Marques Johnson-MIL 21.7
15. Walter Davis-PHO 21.5
16. Larry Bird-BOS 21.3
17. Mike Newlin-NJN 20.9
18. Ray Williams-NYK 20.9
19. Reggie Theus-CHI 20.2
20. Larry Kenon-SAS 20.1

1980-81 Points Per Game
1. Adrian Dantley-UTA 30.6
2. Moses Malone-HOU 27.8
3. George Gervin-SAS 27.1
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 26.2
5. David Thompson-DEN 25.5
6. Otis Birdsong-KCK 24.6
7. Julius Erving-PHI 24.6
8. Mike Mitchell-CLE 24.5
9. World B. Free-GSW 24.1
10. Alex English-DEN 23.8
11. Jamaal Wilkes-LAL 22.6
12. Bernard King-GSW 21.9
13. Dan Issel-DEN 21.9
14. John Drew-ATL 21.7
15. Mike Newlin-NJN 21.4
16. Larry Bird-BOS 21.2
17. Darrell Griffith-UTA 20.6
18. Marques Johnson-MIL 20.3
19. Bill Cartwright-NYK 20.1
20. Ray Williams-NYK 19.7

1981-82 Points Per Game
1. George Gervin-SAS 32.3
2. Moses Malone-HOU 31.1
3. Adrian Dantley-UTA 30.3
4. Alex English-DEN 25.4
5. Julius Erving-PHI 24.4
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 23.9
7. Gus Williams-SEA 23.4
8. Bernard King-GSW 23.2
9. World B. Free-GSW 22.9
10. Larry Bird-BOS 22.9
11. Dan Issel-DEN 22.9
12. John Long-DET 21.9
13. Kelly Tripucka-DET 21.6
14. Kiki Vandeweghe-DEN 21.5
15. Jay Vincent-DAL 21.4
16. Jamaal Wilkes-LAL 21.1
17. Mychal Thompson-POR 20.8
18. Mike Mitchell-TOT 20.5
19. Ray Williams-NJN 20.4
20. Robert Parish-BOS 19.9

1982-83 Points Per Game
1. Alex English-DEN 28.4
2. Kiki Vandeweghe-DEN 26.7
3. Kelly Tripucka-DET 26.5
4. George Gervin-SAS 26.2
5. Moses Malone-PHI 24.5
6. Mark Aguirre-DAL 24.4
7. Joe Barry Carroll-GSW 24.1
8. World B. Free-TOT 23.9
9. Reggie Theus-CHI 23.8
10. Terry Cummings-SDC 23.7
11. Larry Bird-BOS 23.6
12. Isiah Thomas-DET 22.9
13. Sidney Moncrief-MIL 22.5
14. Darrell Griffith-UTA 22.2
15. Bernard King-NYK 21.9
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 21.8
17. Jim Paxson-POR 21.7
18. Dan Issel-DEN 21.6
19. Purvis Short-GSW 21.4
20. Marques Johnson-MIL 21.4

1983-84 Points Per Game
1. Adrian Dantley-UTA 30.6
2. Mark Aguirre-DAL 29.5
3. Kiki Vandeweghe-DEN 29.4
4. Alex English-DEN 26.4
5. Bernard King-NYK 26.3
6. George Gervin-SAS 25.9
7. Larry Bird-BOS 24.2
8. Mike Mitchell-SAS 23.3
9. Terry Cummings-SDC 22.9
10. Purvis Short-GSW 22.8
11. Moses Malone-PHI 22.7
12. Julius Erving-PHI 22.4
13. Rolando Blackman-DAL 22.4
14. World B. Free-CLE 22.3
15. Jeff Ruland-WSB 22.2
16. Eddie Johnson-KCK 21.9
17. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 21.6
18. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 21.5
19. Isiah Thomas-DET 21.3
20. Kelly Tripucka-DET 21.3

Now that's before Jordan entered the scene.

1984-85 Points Per Game
1. Bernard King-NYK 32.9
2. Larry Bird-BOS 28.7
3. Michael Jordan-CHI 28.2
4. Purvis Short-GSW 28.0
5. Alex English-DEN 27.9
6. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 27.4
7. Adrian Dantley-UTA 26.6
8. Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.7
9. Moses Malone-PHI 24.6
10. Terry Cummings-MIL 23.6
11. Calvin Natt-DEN 23.3
12. Orlando Woolridge-CHI 22.9
13. Eddie Johnson-KCK 22.9
14. Darrell Griffith-UTA 22.6
15. World B. Free-CLE 22.5
16. Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 22.4
17. Mike Mitchell-SAS 22.2
18. Derek Smith-LAC 22.1
19. Ralph Sampson-HOU 22.1
20. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 22.0

1985-86 Points Per Game
1. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 30.3
2. Adrian Dantley-UTA 29.8
3. Alex English-DEN 29.8
4. Larry Bird-BOS 25.8
5. Purvis Short-GSW 25.5
6. Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 24.8
7. Moses Malone-PHI 23.8
8. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 23.5
9. Mike Mitchell-SAS 23.4
10. World B. Free-CLE 23.4
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar-LAL 23.4
12. Mark Aguirre-DAL 22.6
13. Jeff Malone-WSB 22.4
14. Walter Davis-PHO 21.8
15. Rolando Blackman-DAL 21.5
16. Kevin McHale-BOS 21.3
17. Joe Barry Carroll-GSW 21.2
18. Isiah Thomas-DET 20.9
19. Orlando Woolridge-CHI 20.7
20. Marques Johnson-LAC 20.3

1986-87 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 37.1
2. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 29.0
3. Alex English-DEN 28.6
4. Larry Bird-BOS 28.1
5. Kiki Vandeweghe-POR 26.9
6. Kevin McHale-BOS 26.1
7. Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.7
8. Dale Ellis-SEA 24.9
9. Moses Malone-WSB 24.1
10. Magic Johnson-LAL 23.9
11. Walter Davis-PHO 23.6
12. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 23.4
13. Tom Chambers-SEA 23.3 (Can be considered, because he took 3s)
14. Xavier McDaniel-SEA 23.0
15. Charles Barkley-PHI 23.0
16. Ron Harper-CLE 22.9
17. Larry Nance-PHO 22.5
18. Jeff Malone-WSB 22.0
19. Clyde Drexler-POR 21.7
20. Karl Malone-UTA 21.7

1987-88 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 35.0
2. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 30.7
3. Larry Bird*-BOS 29.9
4. Charles Barkley-PHI 28.3
5. Karl Malone-UTA 27.7
6. Clyde Drexler-POR 27.0
7. Dale Ellis-SEA 25.8
8. Mark Aguirre-DAL 25.1
9. Alex English-DEN 25.0
10. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 22.8
11. Kevin McHale-BOS 22.6
12. Byron Scott-LAL 21.7
13. Reggie Theus-SAC 21.6
14. Xavier McDaniel-SEA 21.4
15. Terry Cummings-MIL 21.3
16. Otis Thorpe-SAC 20.8
17. Jeff Malone-WSB 20.5
18. Tom Chambers-SEA 20.4
19. Moses Malone-WSB 20.3
20. Patrick Ewing-NYK 20.2

1988-89 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 32.5
2. Karl Malone-UTA 29.1
3. Dale Ellis-SEA 27.5
4. Clyde Drexler-POR 27.2
5. Chris Mullin-GSW 26.5
6. Alex English-DEN 26.5
7. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 26.2
8. Charles Barkley-PHI 25.8
9. Tom Chambers-PHO 25.7
10. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 24.8
11. Terry Cummings-MIL 22.9
12. Patrick Ewing-NYK 22.7
13. Kelly Tripucka-CHH 22.6
14. Kevin McHale-BOS 22.5
15. Magic Johnson-LAL 22.5
16. Mitch Richmond-GSW 22.0
17. Jeff Malone-WSB 21.7
18. Chuck Person-IND 21.6
19. Eddie Johnson-PHO 21.5
20. Bernard King-WSB 20.7

That round up the 80s. Basically it was a much more run and gun style of era and a lot more teamwork was involved to score those points. So there were perimeter players that flourished in the run and gun style.

Rule Changes in the 80s happened here:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Onto the 90s...

[Legends66NBA7]

1989-90 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 33.6
2. Karl Malone-UTA 31.0
3. Patrick Ewing-NYK 28.6
4. Tom Chambers-PHO 27.2
5. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 26.7
6. Charles Barkley-PHI 25.2
7. Chris Mullin-GSW 25.1
8. Reggie Miller-IND 24.6
9. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 24.3
10. David Robinson-SAS 24.3
11. Jeff Malone-WSB 24.3
11. Larry Bird-BOS 24.3
13. Clyde Drexler-POR 23.3
14. Tony Campbell-MIN 23.2
15. Kevin Johnson-PHO 22.5
16. Terry Cummings-SAS 22.4
17. Bernard King-WSB 22.4
18. Magic Johnson-LAL 22.3
19. Wayman Tisdale-SAC 22.3
20. Mitch Richmond-GSW 22.1

1990-91 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 31.5
2. Karl Malone-UTA 29.0
3. Bernard King-WSB 28.4
4. Charles Barkley-PHI 27.6
5. Patrick Ewing-NYK 26.6
6. Michael Adams-DEN 26.5
7. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 25.9
8. Chris Mullin-GSW 25.7
9. David Robinson-SAS 25.6
10. Mitch Richmond-GSW 23.9
11. Tim Hardaway-GSW 22.9
12. Reggie Miller-IND 22.6
13. Kevin Johnson-PHO 22.2
14. Hersey Hawkins-PHI 22.1
15. Tony Campbell-MIN 21.8
16. Brad Daugherty-CLE 21.6
17. Clyde Drexler-POR 21.5
18. James Worthy-LAL 21.4
19. Ricky Pierce-TOT 20.5
20. Joe Dumars-DET 20.4

1991-92 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 30.1
2. Karl Malone-UTA 28.0
3. Chris Mullin-GSW 25.6
4. Clyde Drexler-POR 25.0
5. Patrick Ewing-NYK 24.0
6. Tim Hardaway-GSW 23.4
7. David Robinson-SAS 23.2
8. Charles Barkley-PHI 23.1
9. Mitch Richmond-SAC 22.5
10. Glen Rice-MIA 22.3
11. Ricky Pierce-SEA 21.7
12. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 21.6
13. Brad Daugherty-CLE 21.5
14. Scottie Pippen-CHI 21.0
15. Reggie Lewis-BOS 20.8
16. Reggie Miller-IND 20.7
17. Drazen Petrovic-NJN 20.6
18. Kendall Gill-CHH 20.5
19. Jeff Malone-UTA 20.2
20. Jeff Hornacek-PHO 20.1

1992-93 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 32.6
2. Dominique Wilkins-ATL 29.9
3. Karl Malone-UTA 27.0
4. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 26.1
5. Charles Barkley-PHO 25.6
6. Patrick Ewing-NYK 24.2
7. Joe Dumars-DET 23.5
8. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 23.4
9. David Robinson-SAS 23.4
10. Danny Manning-LAC 22.8
11. Drazen Petrovic-NJN 22.3
12. Larry Johnson-CHH 22.1
13. Tim Hardaway-GSW 21.5
14. Reggie Miller-IND 21.2
15. Alonzo Mourning-CHH 21.0
16. Reggie Lewis-BOS 20.8
17. Derrick Coleman-NJN 20.7
18. Hersey Hawkins-PHI 20.3
19. Brad Daugherty-CLE 20.2
20. Nick Anderson-ORL 19.9

1993-94 Points Per Game
1. David Robinson-SAS 29.8
2. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 29.3
3. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 27.3
4. Dominique Wilkins-TOT 26.0
5. Karl Malone-UTA 25.2
6. Patrick Ewing-NYK 24.5
7. Mitch Richmond-SAC 23.4
8. Scottie Pippen-CHI 22.0
9. Charles Barkley-PHO 21.6
10. Glen Rice-MIA 21.1
11. Latrell Sprewell-GSW 21.0
12. Danny Manning-TOT 20.6
13. Joe Dumars-DET 20.4
14. Derrick Coleman-NJN 20.2
15. Ron Harper-LAC 20.1
16. Clifford Robinson-POR 20.1
17. Reggie Miller-IND 19.9
18. Jim Jackson-DAL 19.2
19. Jamal Mashburn-DAL 19.2
20. Kevin Willis-ATL 19.1

1994-95 Points Per Game
1. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 29.3
2. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 27.8
3. David Robinson-SAS 27.6
4. Karl Malone-UTA 26.7
5. Jamal Mashburn-DAL 24.1
6. Patrick Ewing-NYK 23.9
7. Charles Barkley-PHO 23.0
8. Mitch Richmond-SAC 22.8
9. Glen Rice-MIA 22.3
10. Glenn Robinson-MIL 21.9
11. Clyde Drexler-TOT 21.8
12. Scottie Pippen-CHI 21.4
13. Clifford Robinson-POR 21.3
14. Alonzo Mourning-CHH 21.3
15. Anfernee Hardaway-ORL 20.9
16. Gary Payton-SEA 20.6
17. Latrell Sprewell-GSW 20.6
18. Dana Barros-PHI 20.6
19. Isaiah Rider-MIN 20.4
20. Grant Hill-DET 19.9


1995-96 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 30.4
2. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 26.9
3. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 26.6
4. Karl Malone-UTA 25.7
5. David Robinson-SAS 25.0
6. Charles Barkley-PHO 23.2
7. Alonzo Mourning-MIA 23.2
8. Mitch Richmond-SAC 23.1
9. Patrick Ewing-NYK 22.5
10. Juwan Howard-WSB 22.1
11. Anfernee Hardaway-ORL 21.7
12. Glen Rice-CHH 21.6
13. Cedric Ceballos-LAL 21.2
14. Reggie Miller-IND 21.1
15. Vin Baker-MIL 21.1
16. Clifford Robinson-POR 21.1
17. Larry Johnson-CHH 20.5
18. Glenn Robinson-MIL 20.2
19. Grant Hill-DET 20.2
20. Sean Elliott-SAS 20.0

1996-97 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 29.6
2. Karl Malone-UTA 27.4
3. Glen Rice-CHH 26.8
4. Mitch Richmond-SAC 25.9
5. Latrell Sprewell-GSW 24.2
6. Allen Iverson-PHI 23.5
7. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 23.2
8. Patrick Ewing-NYK 22.4
9. Kendall Gill-NJN 21.8
10. Gary Payton-SEA 21.8
11. Reggie Miller-IND 21.6
12. Grant Hill-DET 21.4
13. Glenn Robinson-MIL 21.1
14. Vin Baker-MIL 21.0
15. Jerry Stackhouse-PHI 20.7
16. Tom Gugliotta-MIN 20.6
17. Tim Hardaway-MIA 20.3
18. Scottie Pippen-CHI 20.2
19. Damon Stoudamire-TOR 20.2
20. Kevin Johnson-PHO 20.1

1997-98 Points Per Game
1. Michael Jordan-CHI 28.7
2. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 28.3
3. Karl Malone-UTA 27.0
4. Mitch Richmond-SAC 23.2
5. Antoine Walker-BOS 22.4
6. Shareef Abdur-Rahim-VAN 22.3
7. Glen Rice-CHH 22.3
8. Allen Iverson-PHI 22.0
9. Chris Webber-WAS 21.9
10. David Robinson-SAS 21.6
11. Michael Finley-DAL 21.5
12. Grant Hill-DET 21.1
13. Tim Duncan-SAS 21.1
14. Steve Smith-ATL 20.1
15. Isaiah Rider-POR 19.7
16. Sam Cassell-NJN 19.6
17. Ray Allen-MIL 19.5
18. Reggie Miller-IND 19.5
19. Vin Baker-SEA 19.2
20. Gary Payton-SEA 19.2

1998-99 Points Per Game
1. Allen Iverson-PHI 26.8
2. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 26.3
3. Karl Malone-UTA 23.8
4. Shareef Abdur-Rahim-VAN 23.0
5. Keith Van Horn-NJN 21.8
6. Gary Payton-SEA 21.7
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 21.7
8. Stephon Marbury-TOT 21.3
9. Antonio McDyess-DEN 21.2
10. Grant Hill-DET 21.1
11. Kevin Garnett-MIN 20.8
12. Shawn Kemp-CLE 20.5
13. Michael Finley-DAL 20.2
14. Alonzo Mourning-MIA 20.1
15. Kobe Bryant-LAL 19.9
16. Mitch Richmond-WAS 19.7
17. Hakeem Olajuwon-HOU 18.9
18. Toni Kukoc-CHI 18.8
19. Glenn Robinson-MIL 18.4
20. Reggie Miller-IND 18.4

There was a movement for more defensive oriented teams during the 90s and teams didn't run as much.

Jordan basically won 7 scoring titles during big man's game.

Rules Changes in the 90s here:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Onto to the 00s...

[Legends66NBA7]

There were many rules changes for perimeter players during the 00's. That shouldn't be confused with team stats because it didn't effect it that much, but it did effect perimeter scoring...

1999-00 Points Per Game
1. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 29.7
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 28.4
3. Grant Hill-DET 25.8
4. Vince Carter-TOR 25.7
5. Karl Malone-UTA 25.5
6. Chris Webber-SAC 24.5
7. Gary Payton-SEA 24.2
8. Jerry Stackhouse-DET 23.6
9. Tim Duncan-SAS 23.2
10. Kevin Garnett-MIN 22.9
11. Michael Finley-DAL 22.6
12. Kobe Bryant-LAL 22.5
13. Stephon Marbury-NJN 22.2
14. Ray Allen-MIL 22.1
15. Alonzo Mourning-MIA 21.7
16. Glenn Robinson-MIL 20.9
17. Antoine Walker-BOS 20.5 (You could consider Walker a perimeter player)
18. Shareef Abdur-Rahim-VAN 20.3
19. Elton Brand-CHI 20.1
20. Eddie Jones-CHH 20.1

2000-01 Points Per Game
1. Allen Iverson-PHI 31.1
2. Jerry Stackhouse-DET 29.8
3. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 28.7
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 28.5
5. Vince Carter-TOR 27.6
6. Chris Webber-SAC 27.1
7. Tracy McGrady-ORL 26.8
8. Paul Pierce-BOS 25.3
9. Antawn Jamison-GSW 24.9
10. Stephon Marbury-NJN 23.9
11. Antoine Walker-BOS 23.4
12. Karl Malone-UTA 23.2
13. Gary Payton-SEA 23.1
14. Tim Duncan-SAS 22.2
15. Glenn Robinson-MIL 22.0
16. Kevin Garnett-MIN 22.0
17. Ray Allen-MIL 22.0
18. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 21.8 (You could consider Dirk a perimeter player)
19. Michael Finley-DAL 21.5
20. Antonio McDyess-DEN 20.8

2001-02 Points Per Game
1. Allen Iverson-PHI 31.4
2. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 27.2
3. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.1
4. Tracy McGrady-ORL 25.6
5. Tim Duncan-SAS 25.5
6. Kobe Bryant-LAL 25.2
7. Vince Carter-TOR 24.7
8. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 23.4
9. Karl Malone-UTA 22.4
10. Antoine Walker-BOS 22.1
11. Gary Payton-SEA 22.1
12. Ray Allen-MIL 21.8
13. Cuttino Mobley-HOU 21.7
14. Jerry Stackhouse-DET 21.4
15. Shareef Abdur-Rahim-ATL 21.2
16. Peja Stojakovic-SAC 21.2
17. Kevin Garnett-MIN 21.2
18. Michael Finley-DAL 20.6
19. Jalen Rose-TOT 20.4
20. Stephon Marbury-PHO 20.4

2002-03 Points Per Game
1. Tracy McGrady-ORL 32.1
2. Kobe Bryant-LAL 30.0
3. Allen Iverson-PHI 27.6
4. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 27.5
5. Paul Pierce-BOS 25.9
6. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 25.1
7. Tim Duncan-SAS 23.3
8. Chris Webber-SAC 23.0
9. Kevin Garnett-MIN 23.0
10. Ray Allen-TOT 22.5
11. Allan Houston-NYK 22.5
12. Stephon Marbury-PHO 22.3
13. Antawn Jamison-GSW 22.2
14. Jalen Rose-CHI 22.1
15. Jamal Mashburn-NOH 21.6
16. Jerry Stackhouse-WAS 21.5
17. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.2
18. Steve Francis-HOU 21.0
19. Glenn Robinson-ATL 20.8
20. Jermaine O'Neal-IND 20.8

2003-04 Points Per Game
1. Tracy McGrady-ORL 28.0
2. Peja Stojakovic-SAC 24.2
3. Kevin Garnett-MIN 24.2
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 24.0
5. Paul Pierce-BOS 22.9
6. Baron Davis-NOH 22.9
7. Vince Carter-TOR 22.5
8. Tim Duncan-SAS 22.3
9. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 21.8
10. Michael Redd-MIL 21.7
11. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 21.5
12. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 21.0
13. LeBron James-CLE 20.9
14. Corey Maggette-LAC 20.7
15. Stephon Marbury-TOT 20.2
16. Jermaine O'Neal-IND 20.1
17. Zach Randolph-POR 20.1
18. Sam Cassell-MIN 19.8
19. Shawn Marion-PHO 19.0
20. Jason Richardson-GSW 18.7

2004-05 Points Per Game
1. Allen Iverson-PHI 30.7
2. Kobe Bryant-LAL 27.6
3. LeBron James-CLE 27.2
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.1
5. Amare Stoudemire-PHO 26.0
6. Tracy McGrady-HOU 25.7
7. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 25.5
8. Vince Carter-TOT 24.5
9. Dwyane Wade-MIA 24.1
10. Ray Allen-SEA 23.9
11. Michael Redd-MIL 23.0
12. Shaquille O'Neal-MIA 22.9
13. Corey Maggette-LAC 22.2
14. Kevin Garnett-MIN 22.2
15. Stephon Marbury-NYK 21.7
16. Jason Richardson-GSW 21.7
17. Paul Pierce-BOS 21.6
18. Steve Francis-ORL 21.3
19. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 20.8
20. Rashard Lewis-SEA 20.5

2005-06 Points Per Game
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 35.4
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 33.0
3. LeBron James-CLE 31.4
4. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 29.3
5. Dwyane Wade-MIA 27.2
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.8
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.6
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 26.5
9. Michael Redd-MIL 25.4
10. Ray Allen-SEA 25.1
11. Elton Brand-LAC 24.7
12. Vince Carter-NJN 24.2
13. Jason Richardson-GSW 23.2
14. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.5
15. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.8
16. Kevin Garnett-MIN 21.8
17. Mike Bibby-SAC 21.1
18. Antawn Jamison-WAS 20.5
19. Pau Gasol-MEM 20.4
20. Mike James-TOR 20.3

2006-07 Points Per Game
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 31.6
2. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 28.9
3. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 28.4
4. LeBron James-CLE 27.3
5. Michael Redd-MIL 26.7
6. Ray Allen-SEA 26.4
7. Allen Iverson-TOT 26.3
8. Vince Carter-NJN 25.2
9. Joe Johnson-ATL 25.0
10. Tracy McGrady-HOU 24.6
11. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 24.6
12. Zach Randolph-POR 23.6
13. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.6
14. Kevin Garnett-MIN 22.4
15. Ben Gordon-CHI 21.4
16. Carlos Boozer-UTA 20.9
17. Elton Brand-LAC 20.5
18. Amare Stoudemire-PHO 20.4
19. Kevin Martin-SAC 20.2
20. Tim Duncan-SAS 20.0

2007-08 Points Per Game
1. LeBron James-CLE 30.0
2. Kobe Bryant-LAL 28.3
3. Allen Iverson-DEN 26.4
4. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 25.7
5. Amare Stoudemire-PHO 25.2
6. Kevin Martin-SAC 23.7
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 23.6
8. Michael Redd-MIL 22.7
9. Richard Jefferson-NJN 22.6
10. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.3
11. Corey Maggette-LAC 22.1
12. Baron Davis-GSW 21.8
13. Jason Richardson-CHA 21.8
14. Joe Johnson-ATL 21.7
15. Tracy McGrady-HOU 21.6
16. Antawn Jamison-WAS 21.4
17. Vince Carter-NJN 21.3
18. Carlos Boozer-UTA 21.1
19. Chris Paul-NOH 21.1
20. Al Jefferson-MIN 21.0

2008-09 Points Per Game
1. Dwyane Wade-MIA 30.2
2. LeBron James-CLE 28.4
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 26.8
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 25.9
5. Danny Granger-IND 25.8
6. Kevin Durant-OKC 25.3
7. Chris Paul-NOH 22.8
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 22.8
9. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.7
10. Brandon Roy-POR 22.6
11. Antawn Jamison-WAS 22.2
12. Tony Parker-SAS 22.0
13. Joe Johnson-ATL 21.4
14. Devin Harris-NJN 21.3
15. David West-NOH 21.0
16. Vince Carter-NJN 20.8
17. Ben Gordon-CHI 20.7
18. Dwight Howard-ORL 20.6
19. Paul Pierce-BOS 20.5
20. Al Harrington-TOT 20.1

I could have also added guys like Chirs Bosh and Antawn Jamison as perimeter players (sort off...) since they do like to take a lot of mid range shots... more so Jamison have become a guy who like to take a lot more 3's...

I will conclude things here with 00s... The second half of the 00s brought more perimeter oriented apporach to the game.

05-06 was considered the worst year for perimeter defense. Perimeter players saw 23% increase in their scoring output when the rule changes went to full effect.

I'll conclude something next time with the 10s, though... and might even add something from 06-07 to 08-09...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nice job Legends. Not that much different in the '80's at all

[bwink23]

Legends66NBA7

These guys you have bolded weren't perimeter players (Jordan era)

Bernard King, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Kevin Willis.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Legends66NBA7

These guys you have bolded weren't perimeter players (Jordan era)

Bernard King, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Kevin Willis.
lol you got exposed bwink

[bwink23]

lol you got exposed bwink


NOT AT ALL...if in fact, it only reinforced my point...:D

[Deuce Bigalow]

NOT AT ALL...if in fact, it only reinforced my point...:D
1. eFG% difference from '84-'04 to '05-present is 0.3
2. '00s and '80s top 10 scorers had the same amount of perimeter players

Facts

[bwink23]

1. eFG% difference from '84-05 to '06-present is 0.3
2. '00s and '80s top 10 scorers had the same amount of perimeter players

Facts


WRONG.... from 1987-1993 saw 76 perimeters compared to 102 for 2003-2009.....:D

[Deuce Bigalow]

WRONG.... from 1987-1993 saw 76 perimeters compared to 102 for 2003-2009.....:D
nice cherrypick..'87-'93 :facepalm

'80s = '80-'89

[Lakers Legend#32]

Made the Celtics their b!tches that year.

[bwink23]

nice cherrypick..'87-'93 :facepalm

'80s = '80-'89


I'm comparing the Jordan era.....:D

[Legends66NBA7]

Legends66NBA7

These guys you have bolded weren't perimeter players (Jordan era)

Bernard King, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Kevin Willis.

My bad about Willis (bolded it by accident)... as for Chambers... he did pop 3's, that's why I considered him... maybe I should have looked at him more...

But King, Dantley, and English... aren't they SF's ? Or were they just driving a lot more ?

[bwink23]

My bad about Willis... as for Chambers... he did pop 3's, that's why I considered him... maybe I should have looked at him more...

But King, Dantley, and English... aren't they SF's ? Or were they just driving a lot more ?


Those guys you listed as perimeter players....were no more perimeter than Chris Bosh, or Kevin Garnett....

[bwink23]

My bad about Willis... as for Chambers... he did pop 3's, that's why I considered him... maybe I should have looked at him more...

But King, Dantley, and English... aren't they SF's ? Or were they just driving a lot more ?


King, Dantley, and English were interior players....Dantley and English could step out and hit the J.....but that's no different than was Kevin Garnett or Chris Bosh are capable of.

[Round Mound]

When u talk about Adrian Dantley u must remembre he wasn`t a 3-Point Specialist and he would not Score Far in the Perimeter. He was a Post Up 6`5 Freak that was Guarded by SFs and PFs. He was a 2-Point FG Machine Scorer.

[Legends66NBA7]

...

Hmm, you make a good point... Although I did alude, you could (Bosh was an example, and yes Garnett too)... but then again, you probably no a little bit more on those guys than I do.

I would have to say, I've tried to watch as many playoff games and regular season games as I can about them.

English did shoot a lot, I can see Dantley did try to post more, so yeah you got me there. King was a rim attacker as well..

So yes, good points.


When u talk about Adrian Dantley u must remembre he wasn`t a 3-Point Specialist and he would not Score Far in the Perimeter. He was a Post Up 6`5 Freak that was Guarded by SFs and PFs. He was a 2-Point FG Machine Scorer.


Noted.

[bwink23]

My bad about Willis (bolded it by accident)... as for Chambers... he did pop 3's, that's why I considered him... maybe I should have looked at him more...

But King, Dantley, and English... aren't they SF's ? Or were they just driving a lot more ?


Dantley did his most damage in the post and drawing fouls...He could face up but usually did it in the midrange-post area...

when talking true perimeter scoring, your talking about guys who score with ball in hand on the wings....not guys you feed down low first then they operate.

[bwink23]

Hmm, you make a good point... Although I did alude, you could (Bosh was an example, and yes Garnett too)... but then again, you probably no a little bit more on those guys than I do.

I would have to say, I've tried to watch as many playoff games and regular season games as I can about them.

English did shoot a lot, I can see Dantley did try to post more, so yeah you got me there. King was a rim attacker as well..

So yes, good points.




Noted.


You should also note that this spectrum doesn't cover the ratio of points scored from the interiors vs. the perimeters....back then, the interiors did a larger chunk of the scoring, compared to that of the perimeter players in today's game.

[Legends66NBA7]

You should also note that this spectrum doesn't cover the ratio of points scored from the interiors vs. the perimeters....back then, the interiors did a larger chunk of the scoring, compared to that of the perimeter players in today's game.

You're right on that too. Hence, why the fg% was higher back then, there were more interior scorers and there was higher IQ bball played back then as well.

[bwink23]

Hmm, you make a good point... Although I did alude, you could (Bosh was an example, and yes Garnett too)... but then again, you probably no a little bit more on those guys than I do.

I would have to say, I've tried to watch as many playoff games and regular season games as I can about them.

English did shoot a lot, I can see Dantley did try to post more, so yeah you got me there. King was a rim attacker as well..

So yes, good points.




Noted.


When i think "perimeter" player, point guards and 2-guards are an automatic. Then it gets a little sketchy in the SF, PF category.

When thinking in terms of perimeter scoring, you got to think where that player operates on the floor the most. The rule changes favor the face-up perimeter player capable of putting the ball on the floor from 20+ft out.

Some of those guys you bolded rarely saw the ball out that far. If your posting 12-15 feet and face up, the rule changes rarely apply to you. It applies mostly to those offensive-minded wing or point players who can take you off the dribble from afar, and attack from there with a head of steam. That is where the defense is at their mercy.

[Legends66NBA7]

When i think "perimeter" player, point guards and 2-guards are an automatic. Then it gets a little sketchy in the SF, PF category.

This is true. I think when you factor Larry Bird, he really changed the position up for the SF's.


When thinking in terms of perimeter scoring, you got to think where that player operates on the floor the most. The rule changes favor the face-up perimeter player capable of putting the ball on the floor from 20+ft out.

Yup. It does get harder to see where the players from the 80s operated from when you didn't watch enough of that game because you missed out on that era (I've tried to watch as much as I can to form an opinion on it...).

The rules changes definitely helped out this era, for sure.


Some of those guys you bolded rarely saw the ball out that far. If your posting 12-15 feet and face up, the rule changes rarely apply to you. It applies mostly to those offensive-minded wing or point players who can take you off the dribble from afar, and attack from there with a head of steam. That is where the defense is at their mercy.

Yes, noted again, I guess I shouldn't have confused the SF's from back then, because they do seem like more guys who posted up instead.