Wade vs Kobe: Better prime.

[305Baller]

We know neither can touch Jordan, but who had the better prime?

Wade or Kobe?



I would say Wade. Athough Kobe had the best individual performance (81)

:coleman:

[talkingconch]

lol

[LoneyROY7]

Damage control after Kobe coming through in the clutch?

:kobe:

[Brick Rick]

Kobe easily.

[DKLaker]

We know neither can touch Jordan, but who had the better prime?

Wade or Kobe?



I would say Wade. Athough Kobe had the best individual performance (81)

:coleman:



Kobe says "Kiss my Rings!!!!!" :oldlol:

[BlueandGold]

Kobe obviously has the better prime and career. His prime numbers (35/6/5/2.5) as well as the duration of his prime (10+ years averaging 28/5/5) blow whatever wade has done out of the water.

And this is not slight on wade, i'm a huge wade fan but Kobe is obviously the better player.

[(e)]

The fck is going on here?

There isn't a single thing a Wade homer can say to prove he has had a better prime than Kobe. Seriously, wtf is this shit?

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe.

[NumberSix]

D-Wade. Kobe is yet to have an impressive finals appearance.

[DeathOfAutotune]

Wade has had a more "efficient" prime stat wise, but in all honesty Kobe has had the better prime his rings, mvp and all

[NumberSix]

Wade has had a more "efficient" prime stat wise, but in all honesty Kobe has had the better prime his rings, mvp and all
Weren't Kobe rings before his prime and then after his prime? :confusedshrug:

[Mr. Jabbar]

ban op

[RazorBaLade]

Weren't Kobe rings before his prime and then after his prime? :confusedshrug:

9 and 10 were still good , prime years. Just not his best year. Kobes prime was just on a curve instead of like 4-6yrs of equal dominance.

[D-Wade316]

Prime Wade(06-07, 09-12): 27.0pts, 5.3reb, 6.3ast, 1.9stl, 1.1blk, 3.4tov, 49.1fg%

Wade easily.

[D-Wade316]

The fck is going on here?

There isn't a single thing a Wade homer can say to prove he has had a better prime than Kobe. Seriously, wtf is this shit?
Moron.

[RazorBaLade]

Prime Wade(06-07, 09-12): 27.0pts, 5.3reb, 6.3ast, 1.9stl, 1.1blk, 3.4tov, 49.1fg%

Wade easily.

Kobe scored 7 more pts on 1 more missed shot.

[D-Wade316]

Kobe scored 7 more pts on 1 more missed shot.
When do you consider Kobe entered his prime? '01 or '06?

[christian1923]

When do you consider Kobe entered his prime?

Kobe bryant is always in his prime

[RazorBaLade]

When do you consider Kobe entered his prime?

I think 06 is his best year and then 07>08>09. All 4 years are prime years in my book.

[LABean]

I hate Wade, but don't do this to him. You're just embarrassing him. :facepalm
Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-Whistle

[Whoah10115]

No player in the league is as good as peak or prime Kobe Bryant.



And no player since Mike.

[Alamo]

Kobe's career was better(by far). But Wade's prime was amazing. Jordan comparisons were being thrown left and right. Do people not remember prime Wade? Carrying the Heat for multiple years.

[EnoughSaid]

Let's see. What did Kobe do better in his prime? Scoring, and maybe uhhh... Free Throw percentage? I don't know. :lol


:roll: :roll: @ people acting like it's not even close.

[chazzy]

Wade easily.
lol

Kobe is yet to have an impressive finals appearance.
02, 09?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe bryant is always in his prime

Word. That's the first commandment of lord godbe.

[Fiasco]

:roll: :roll: @ people acting like it's not even close.

It's not.

[D-Wade316]

I think 06 is his best year and then 07>08>09. All 4 years are prime years in my book.
I'd say Kobe hit his prime in '01. '06 was definitely his peak year, but he entered his prime in '01.

So his prime years were from '01-'04 to '06-'09.

[christian1923]

Let's see. What did Kobe do better in his prime? Scoring, and maybe uhhh... Free Throw percentage? I don't know. :lol


:roll: :roll: @ people acting like it's not even close.

Win championships? :coleman:

[D-Wade316]

It's not.
:yaohappy:

AI - 33pts

Yet AI wasn't even better than Wade that season. :oldlol:

[christian1923]

:yaohappy:

AI - 33pts

Yet AI wasn't even better than Wade that season. :oldlol:

AI > Wade

[D-Wade316]

AI > Wade
:yaohappy:

[StateOfMind12]

Is this a joke? The answer is clearly Kobe. Wade never had a 4 year stretch like Kobe did from '06-'09. What did Wade honestly even do better than Kobe? Shoot a better FG%? Cause that is the only thing I can think of.

[D-Wade316]

Prime Kobe('01-'04, '06-'09): 28.8pts, 5.8reb, 5.2ast, 1.7stl, 0.5blk, 3.0tov, 45.8fg%

Yet KoMe stans have the balls to say it's not close. :lol

[iDefend5]

Prime Kobe('01-'04, '06-'09): 28.8pts, 5.8reb, 5.2ast, 1.7stl, 0.5blk, 3.0tov, 45.8fg%

Yet KoMe stans have the balls to say it's not close. :lol
Copy and paste more arguments from the people in RealGM that say Prime Wade > Prime Kobe. We all know you can't think for yourself.

[christian1923]

:yaohappy:

Crosses count where i'm from :lol

[SacJB Shady]

kobes career seems so much longer than d wades

[Magic bird]

Kobe in his prime was unstoppable. So yeah, i'll take Kobe.

[SMoKe0uT]

Prime Kobe('01-'04, '06-'09): 28.8pts, 5.8reb, 5.2ast, 1.7stl, 0.5blk, 3.0tov, 45.8fg%

Yet KoMe stans have the balls to say it's not close. :lol

LOL its not, 3 chips to 1 in your so called prime kobe years. by your logic its not close.:roll:

and league MVP

[Vienceslav]

This must be how Jordan fans feel when people try to say Kobe is better than Jordan.

[EnoughSaid]

ISH has been ****ing crazy the past few weeks. People are downgrading Wade like he's some D-Leaguer or something. :facepalm

[305Baller]

Young Wade owned Kobe, I will give it to Kobe in longevity, he has all-time longevity.


SO far from this thread:

Kobe has 2 primes? wtf :confusedshrug:

and Wade is being t-Mac'd already? (dissed and underrated)

:coleman:

[miggyme1]

Weren't Kobe rings before his prime and then after his prime? :confusedshrug:

before his prime?damn u dumb.he won his first title in 2000.thats his fourth year in da league.then 2001 fifth year.2002 thats his sixth.sounds like PRIME years to me.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[dunksby]

The only thing Wade was better at during his prime was floppin and whining at the refs.

[blablabla]

lol

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe.

[Bigsmoke]

:yaohappy:

i swear Yao is ****ing ugly

[Kews1]

definitely Kobe

[Odinn]

The point is prime is a span that much longer OP thinks.

We can debate 2005-06 Kobe vs. 2008-09 Wade and it's pretty close. But comparing year-by-year doesn't mean prime.

Prime Kobe > Prime Wade. Not much to discuss about it.

[CardiacKemba]

The point is prime is a span that much longer OP thinks.

We can debate 2005-06 Kobe vs. 2008-09 Wade and it's pretty close. But comparing year-by-year doesn't mean prime.

Prime Kobe > Prime Wade. Not much to discuss about it.


Agreed. Wade has had some ridiculous seasons. But over a span of a few years, including his best years, he has often been injured. Kobe's longevity and relative luck (with regards to no serious injuries during his best years) means Kobe has had the better prime.

[Extempo]

Kobe and it's not even close. Next.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

the better prime is certainly debatable, but the FACT is that Wade has not played at that very high level for nearly as long as Kobe did. Shit, Kobe is 33 a currently playing at about the same level (maybe a little worse) than prime DWade is playing right now. Its debatable who is the better SG right NOW. I give the slight edge to Wade.

[D-Wade316]

Its debatable who is the better SG right NOW. I give the slight edge to Wade.
It's not.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

It's not.
ESPN poll of their pundits, this season, had Kobe ranked anywhere from 3rd to 7th best player in the league....and DWade anywhere from 3rd to 6th or 7th.
So YES, it is not only debatable, it is debated.

[PJR]

Wade. I value efficiency.

[PickernRoller]

Wade. I value efficiency.

Just like you value LBJ's empty stats.....all in all, stats can't buy you rings......

Wade and Kobe are both winners. One is a great player and the other is an all-time great period.

[DirtySanchez]

The fck is going on here?

There isn't a single thing a Wade homer can say to prove he has had a better prime than Kobe. Seriously, wtf is this shit?

THIS

[Dictator]

The fck is this chit? Kobe easily.

[blablabla]

It's not.
you are right
right now kobe > wade

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Better prime? Kobe because of Wade's nagging injuries

Peak play? Give me Wade. His 2009 season was better than any Kobe has been able to compile so far. Likewise, D-Wade is the superior player against elite defenses.

[Ne 1]

the better prime is certainly debatable, but the FACT is that Wade has not played at that very high level for nearly as long as Kobe did. Shit, Kobe is 33 a currently playing at about the same level (maybe a little worse) than prime DWade is playing right now. Its debatable who is the better SG right NOW. I give the slight edge to Wade.

I would give '06-'08 Kobe a slight edge over Wade at his peak ('09) and peak Wade a slight edge over '09 Kobe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I would give '06-'08 Kobe a slight edge over Wade at his peak ('09) and peak Wade a slight edge over '09 Kobe.

Agreed, Wade's peak year in '09 was a clear step above any of his others. He cut down on his turnovers a lot, shot the ball much better from all areas, still had his explosiveness and peaked defensively while using a lot more energy at both ends.

But when you look at their entire primes, Kobe becomes more of the clear answer, imo. Wade's prime probably started in '06 when he started showing a nice mid-range game and cutting down on his turnovers from '05, despite being elite in '05, and I'd say Wade is still in his prime now, despite the numbers.

Kobe's true prime, imo was '03-'09. '03 being the year he got stronger, added range and got more skilled and craftier with fakes, with '09 being the last season before injuries affected his game noticeably. But even then, you have an earlier year like '01 when he was attacking the basket more aggressively than ever and had his best two-way season and was a top 3 player in the game, and was also top 3 in '02 for that matter. As well as '10 when he had arguably his best playoff series vs Phoenix, was arguably the MVP the first 2 months before his injuries and was a top 2 player in the game.

In general, I favor Kobe in his prime because of his skills. His superior shooting ability from mid-range, 3 point range and the free throw line, as well as his footwork and post game and greater ability off the ball all make him more of a scoring threat.

For the duration of their primes, I'd give Wade the edge as a playmaker, due to his ability off the dribble and him being a more willing passer, but Kobe at his best('01 playoffs, entire '08 season), was every bit his equal as a playmaker, if not better.

Kobe's man to man defense was always better, while I'd give Wade the edge as a help defender, but both frequently took possessions off during their prime. This isn't as much of a factor for me since Kobe's best defensive season came before his prime('00).

[kileer7]

Absolute peak? Wade.

[SwooshReturns]

Agreed, Wade's peak year in '09 was a clear step above any of his others. He cut down on his turnovers a lot, shot the ball much better from all areas, still had his explosiveness and peaked defensively while using a lot more energy at both ends.

But when you look at their entire primes, Kobe becomes more of the clear answer, imo. Wade's prime probably started in '06 when he started showing a nice mid-range game and cutting down on his turnovers from '05, despite being elite in '05, and I'd say Wade is still in his prime now, despite the numbers.

Kobe's true prime, imo was '03-'09. '03 being the year he got stronger, added range and got more skilled and craftier with fakes, with '09 being the last season before injuries affected his game noticeably. But even then, you have an earlier year like '01 when he was attacking the basket more aggressively than ever and had his best two-way season and was a top 3 player in the game, and was also top 3 in '02 for that matter. As well as '10 when he had arguably his best playoff series vs Phoenix, was arguably the MVP the first 2 months before his injuries and was a top 2 player in the game.

In general, I favor Kobe in his prime because of his skills. His superior shooting ability from mid-range, 3 point range and the free throw line, as well as his footwork and post game and greater ability off the ball all make him more of a scoring threat.

For the duration of their primes, I'd give Wade the edge as a playmaker, due to his ability off the dribble and him being a more willing passer, but Kobe at his best('01 playoffs, entire '08 season), was every bit his equal as a playmaker, if not better.

Kobe's man to man defense was always better, while I'd give Wade the edge as a help defender, but both frequently took possessions off during their prime. This isn't as much of a factor for me since Kobe's best defensive season came before his prime('00).
Entire post, agreed.

At the end of the day, their legacies will be closely linked.

[eliteballer]

No they wont:oldlol: Wade's resume isnt even close.

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe. Wade was neither the defender nor the facilitator Kobe was in his prime.

[Legends66NBA7]

http://thekortneyshanepillar.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/dwyane-wadekobe-bryant.jpg

"Hey Kobe, look. ISH is fighting over us again"

"Another thread ? hahaha"




But seriously, If you're talking about pre 04-05 defenses, you got to go with Kobe here. He's got a taste both styles, while Wade has played virtually is entire career with more perimeter friendly rules.

Also, I would have liked to see Kobe as the first option all the way, throughout his career, like Wade for the most part has.

It's no shame not to take Wade over Kobe, though.

Both guys are so close as players, career wise Kobe as the edge.

[SwooshReturns]

Both guys are so close as players, career wise Kobe as the edge.
Yup ...

[PJR]

Kobe. Wade was neither the defender nor the facilitator Kobe was in his prime.

On what planet was Kobrick ever a better a facilator/passer than D.Wade? :oldlol:

[305Baller]

On what planet was Kobrick ever a better a facilator/passer than D.Wade? :oldlol:

http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Stanley+_81136c014fcdc39ab236eb398841ce60.gif

[SwooshReturns]

http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Stanley+_81136c014fcdc39ab236eb398841ce60.gif
Why are you always posting red x's ? Is this a new gimmick?

[NumberSix]

Wade

[Heavincent]

Kobe and it's pretty clear.

[SwooshReturns]

Kobe and it's pretty clear.
From a resume perspective, sure. Kobe came in at 18 and has 7 years worth of resume over Wade. In terms of actual game, on court productivity ... it's neck and neck, bro.

[Heavincent]

ISH has been ****ing crazy the past few weeks. People are downgrading Wade like he's some D-Leaguer or something. :facepalm

No one is saying that. It's just clear that prime Kobe is better than prime Wade. Read ShaqAttack's post. He explained it better than I could.

[Heavincent]

From a resume perspective, sure. Kobe came in at 18 and has 7 years worth of resume over Wade. In terms of actual game, on court productivity ... it's neck and neck, bro.

Just because it's clear doesn't mean it's not at least kinda close, if you know what I'm saying.

[StateOfMind12]

The only reason why the answer is clearly Kobe is because of his ability to carry for an entire season which includes both the regular season and the post-season.

When Wade tried to carry a team for both in '09, he fatigued out in the post-season.

We have seen what Kobe has done when he has carried a team in the regular season and in the post-season and he always comes through.

Wade just can't carry a team like Kobe can.

This isn't even factoring in how Kobe's individual skills are far better than Wade's as well. The only real advantage I give Wade is the fact that he is smarter and by smarter I mean he takes much better shots.

If Wade could carry like Kobe could, he would be better than both Kobe and LeBron. When Wade goes all out (his peak) he is better than both Kobe and LeBron. The only problem is that Wade can't do it for a long of a duration as Kobe and LeBron can.

[SwooshReturns]

No one is saying that. It's just clear that prime Kobe is better than prime Wade. Read ShaqAttack's post. He explained it better than I could.
ShaqAttack said Kobe was his preferance. For prime, Kobe's has lasted longer. He also said he might consider Wade's peak to be better, as well. Both kind of have arguments over one another, that's why it's almost a wash. It's not like we're comparing Kobe to Vince Carter or Ray Allen, here. There is no "it's not even close" no matter how much some of you want to believe.

[TheNaturalWR]

People acting like it's not close are straight up retarded. Nothing else to it. The better prime is probably Kobe because he did it longer and when Wade did reach his prime an injury occurred and slowed him down. However Wade's 08-09 season is better than any season Kobe had. Peak Wade > Peak Kobe. Wade was the BEST player that season but as always he was underrated and a lot of people had him at #3 which isn't bad but quite frankly he was 1b at the least.
The way I see it:
Prime: Kobe
Career: Kobe by a good margin
Peak: Wade

[NumberSix]

Wade

[BlackJoker23]

kobe easily. better at every facet of the game and only dumbasses think its close

[DMAVS41]

what are people defining as Kobe's prime? 01 to 09 probably I guess. Roughly that stretch....of 9 years.

Wade's prime is 05 to present.....just because Wade's averages are a bit lower...he's not any different a player now than he was last year or the year before.

So Kobe essentially put up 28/5/5 on 46/34/84....56% TS those 9 years. Or something close to that.

Wade essentially put up 26/5/6 on 49/29/77....57% TS those 8 years (including this year)

Both have proven they can carry a team in the playoffs. Both have proven to be legit number 1 championship options. Both have proven they can get 45 to 50 wins with scrub teammates.

You could argue that Kobe early in his prime was the superior defender. Which is true. But then you'd have to talk about Wade's superior playmaking ability and Wade's uncanny ability to raise his game against elite defenses in the league.

Its just personal preference. I personally like the way Wade plays the game better.

Career wise its just not very close. It could have been if Lebron didn't choke his ass off last year. I think people forget this. If Wade had won another title and finals mvp. There would be legit debates not just here, but around the basketball world between Kobe and Wade on all time lists going forward. Because Wade's career with 8 years played and his numbers with 2 titles and 2 finals mvps puts him very close to the top 12 all time...if not already in it. But that is how basketball goes. Kobe never had to deal with his star teammate choking like that in the finals. Imagine if Shaq had choked like Lebron did in 00, 01, or 02. No way the Lakers win any of those finals series without Shaq playing great....let alone playing like ass.

It seems every week someone creates a thread like this where its clearly very close objectively....but the same crew says things like "not close" or "easily"....

[Deuce Bigalow]

what are people defining as Kobe's prime? 01 to 09 probably I guess. Roughly that stretch....of 9 years.

Wade's prime is 05 to present.....just because Wade's averages are a bit lower...he's not any different a player now than he was last year or the year before.

So Kobe essentially put up 28/5/5 on 46/34/84....56% TS those 9 years. Or something close to that.

Wade essentially put up 26/5/6 on 49/29/77....57% TS those 8 years (including this year)

Both have proven they can carry a team in the playoffs. Both have proven to be legit number 1 championship options. Both have proven they can get 45 to 50 wins with scrub teammates.

You could argue that Kobe early in his prime was the superior defender. Which is true. But then you'd have to talk about Wade's superior playmaking ability and Wade's uncanny ability to raise his game against elite defenses in the league.

Its just personal preference. I personally like the way Wade plays the game better.

Career wise its just not very close. It could have been if Lebron didn't choke his ass off last year. I think people forget this. If Wade had won another title and finals mvp. There would be legit debates not just here, but around the basketball world between Kobe and Wade on all time lists going forward. Because Wade's career with 8 years played and his numbers with 2 titles and 2 finals mvps puts him very close to the top 12 all time...if not already in it. But that is how basketball goes. Kobe never had to deal with his star teammate choking like that in the finals. Imagine if Shaq had choked like Lebron did in 00, 01, or 02. No way the Lakers win any of those finals series without Shaq playing great....let alone playing like ass.

It seems every week someone creates a thread like this where its clearly very close objectively....but the same crew says things like "not close" or "easily"....
Kobe's prime was '01-'10
Do people forget that he led the Lakers to a championship in '10? It was not that long ago

[Heavincent]

Kobe's prime was '01-'10
Do people forget that he led the Lakers to a championship in '10? It was not that long ago

As a matter of fact, I would say he was the best player in the game in 2010.

[Deuce Bigalow]

As a matter of fact, I would say he was the best player in the game in 2010.
He was

[DMAVS41]

Kobe's prime was '01-'10
Do people forget that he led the Lakers to a championship in '10? It was not that long ago

I am talking just as players. The championships don't really matter that much because there isn't a huge gap in playoff play either.

If you want to make Kobe's prime 01-10 that is great. So his is 10 years and Wade's is 8 years so far.

You still get roughly the same regular season averages.

For the playoffs?

You get something like 29/6/5 on 45/34/82 on 55% TS for Kobe.

You get something like 27/6/6 on 49/33/79 on 57% TS for Wade.

Those numbers aren't exact, but close enough I would imagine. And look what you have. Nearly identical numbers for two players that are too close to call. You have Kobe scoring a few more points a game, but on worse efficiency.

I just don't get it. I would understand if Wade hadn't proven himself to be a big time playoff performer. Do people forget Wade was on the verge of leading the Heat to at least the finals before he got hurt against the Pistons? Or what he did in 06? Or what he did in the finals last year? Come on now......

Hell, they even both played with Shaq and had similar results. Do people here really think the gap is big enough either way that it would change results. Like that the Lakers wouldn't have won 3 titles in Wade's first 8 years if he played with Shaq? To be honest, its more reasonable to think Wade could have won with what Kobe has won with than Kobe winning in 06 like Wade did. I'm not sure there was ever a version of Kobe that could have pulled off what Wade did in the 06 playoffs.

[NumberSix]

kobe easily. better at every facet of the game and only dumbasses think its close
http://karenknowsbest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Youre-an-idiot.jpg

Lol. Seriously, though. You're phukking stoopid.

[Round Mound]

Wade...Better All Around Play

[boxclever]

The fck is going on here?

There isn't a single thing a Wade homer can say to prove he has had a better prime than Kobe. Seriously, wtf is this shit?
^^

[ShaqAttack3234]

ShaqAttack said Kobe was his preferance. For prime, Kobe's has lasted longer. He also said he might consider Wade's peak to be better, as well. Both kind of have arguments over one another, that's why it's almost a wash. It's not like we're comparing Kobe to Vince Carter or Ray Allen, here. There is no "it's not even close" no matter how much some of you want to believe.

Well, I did favor Kobe's peak slightly, but yeah, I can see the case for Wade's peak. Both Wade('09) and T-Mac('03) have comparable peaks, imo, Kobe's consistency and durability separates himself. Those 3 at their peaks are a clear notch above the other shooting guards not-named MJ that I've seen.

If you look at '05-present when Wade has become elite, there haven't been many years where either was clearly better. The only years I'd say it was clear was Kobe in '08 and Wade in '11. Kobe was better in '07 as well, but before Wade's injury, I thought both were playing like the best players in the game, obviously Kobe also went up a notch after the all-star break and most would've taken Kobe, but Wade was right there.

I definitely favor Kobe as an all around player in '06 due to skills, but I can see the argument for Wade then as well due to what he did in the ECF and Finals, most again considered Kobe the best, and I'd agree, but it's difficult to disregard what Wade did in the 2 biggest rounds.

'09 I favor Wade, but many still had Kobe as the best in the game, and he did win the title, so I still think that's yet another debatable year.

2010 is also debatable, I see many people split on those 2, and Wade was great during the Celtics series, but Kobe's playing during the first 2 months and then after getting his knee drained while Wade's mid-range game also fell off and he had a slow start is enough for me to favor Kobe.

I might be in the minority in saying that Wade is clearly the better player currently despite numbers, but since many are split on them this season, I'll concede that one is debatable.

For whatever reason, Wade's "all-time" rank seems overlooked or like it's sneaking up on people.


what are people defining as Kobe's prime? 01 to 09 probably I guess. Roughly that stretch....of 9 years.

I was really using '03-'09, as I consider a true prime a slightly more specific period than just all elite years, but in a sense, '01 was the year he made the jump and '11 was the year he fell off, so I'm fine with '01-'10 as well.


Wade's prime is 05 to present.....just because Wade's averages are a bit lower...he's not any different a player now than he was last year or the year before.

Wade was elite in '05, but I'm hesitant to call that his prime, it was only his second season and he still relied much more on going to the basket, the jumper was coming around a lot more in '06.

I agree that Wade is still in his prime. Numbers are lower because of Miami's talent, as well as Wade having some injuries and his minutes dropping. But his post game is better than ever, he's still one of the best off the dribble and his mid-range shot seems to be coming back.

People will probably assume he's fallen off because of the numbers, but the ability is clearly there, and he's still top 3-4, imo.



Hell, they even both played with Shaq and had similar results. Do people here really think the gap is big enough either way that it would change results. Like that the Lakers wouldn't have won 3 titles in Wade's first 8 years if he played with Shaq? To be honest, its more reasonable to think Wade could have won with what Kobe has won with than Kobe winning in 06 like Wade did. I'm not sure there was ever a version of Kobe that could have pulled off what Wade did in the 06 playoffs.

I think Kobe could've won in Wade's place in '06, and I think that Wade could've won in Kobe's place some years. Why? Because both are regularly top 3 players in the game and have had good casts whenever they've won or contended. Actually winning is a different story, but there are several teams with a chance to win each season, and it's often not the most talented.

[DMAVS41]

Well, I did favor Kobe's peak slightly, but yeah, I can see the case for Wade's peak. Both Wade('09) and T-Mac('03) have comparable peaks, imo, Kobe's consistency and durability separates himself. Those 3 at their peaks are a clear notch above the other shooting guards not-named MJ that I've seen.

If you look at '05-present when Wade has become elite, there haven't been many years where either was clearly better. The only years I'd say it was clear was Kobe in '08 and Wade in '11. Kobe was better in '07 as well, but before Wade's injury, I thought both were playing like the best players in the game, obviously Kobe also went up a notch after the all-star break and most would've taken Kobe, but Wade was right there.

I definitely favor Kobe as an all around player in '06 due to skills, but I can see the argument for Wade then as well due to what he did in the ECF and Finals, most again considered Kobe the best, and I'd agree, but it's difficult to disregard what Wade did in the 2 biggest rounds.

'09 I favor Wade, but many still had Kobe as the best in the game, and he did win the title, so I still think that's yet another debatable year.

2010 is also debatable, I see many people split on those 2, and Wade was great during the Celtics series, but Kobe's playing during the first 2 months and then after getting his knee drained while Wade's mid-range game also fell off and he had a slow start is enough for me to favor Kobe.

I might be in the minority in saying that Wade is clearly the better player currently despite numbers, but since many are split on them this season, I'll concede that one is debatable.

For whatever reason, Wade's "all-time" rank seems overlooked or like it's sneaking up on people.



I was really using '03-'09, as I consider a true prime a slightly more specific period than just all elite years, but in a sense, '01 was the year he made the jump and '11 was the year he fell off, so I'm fine with '01-'10 as well.



Wade was elite in '05, but I'm hesitant to call that his prime, it was only his second season and he still relied much more on going to the basket, the jumper was coming around a lot more in '06.

I agree that Wade is still in his prime. Numbers are lower because of Miami's talent, as well as Wade having some injuries and his minutes dropping. But his post game is better than ever, he's still one of the best off the dribble and his mid-range shot seems to be coming back.

People will probably assume he's fallen off because of the numbers, but the ability is clearly there, and he's still top 3-4, imo.



I think Kobe could've won in Wade's place in '06, and I think that Wade could've won in Kobe's place some years. Why? Because both are regularly top 3 players in the game and have had good casts whenever they've won or contended. Actually winning is a different story, but there are several teams with a chance to win each season, and it's often not the most talented.

Yep.

Of course Kobe could have won in 06. No doubt about it. I merely said I think that would have been the hardest title for any of them to win out of the 6 they have won.

That doesn't mean I think Wade would for sure have 5 titles. Could he? Sure. He could have more. Or some things might have happened and he could only have 3 instead of 5.

Like you said, there is a difference between actually winning. Just like Wade learned last year. Although again, that is why circumstances matter so much when comparing players. If Lebron just plays average the Heat might have swept the Mavs. And we are sitting here talking about Wade is possibly a top 12 player of all time after 8 seasons.

Oh how fragile all this stuff is.

My main point is that really no matter how you slice it when comparing Kobe to Wade simply in terms of impact on the court. Its too close to call. When you factor in the career stuff is when the answer is clearly Kobe. But in terms of just playing basketball their 7 best years as you used above. Its very very very close.

[LA_Showtime]

On what planet was Kobrick ever a better a facilator/passer than D.Wade? :oldlol:

You must not have watched basketball during the Kobe/Shaq era. Kobe, despite his flaws, did a great job facilitating for his teammates and running the offense in general.

[BlackJoker23]

http://karenknowsbest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Youre-an-idiot.jpg

Lol. Seriously, though. You're phukking stoopid.
coming from the fukktard with bush in his avy

[Deuce Bigalow]

You must not have watched basketball during the Kobe/Shaq era. Kobe, despite his flaws, did a great job facilitating for his teammates and running the offense in general.
Kobe led his team in assists for all 5 championships

what a ballhog!

[kileer7]

Kobe led his team in assists for all 5 championships

what a ballhog!

:coleman:

[PJR]

You must not have watched basketball during the Kobe/Shaq era. Kobe, despite his flaws, did a great job facilitating for his teammates and running the offense in general.

Again, on what planet is Bryant a better passer than Wade? Certainly not Earth.

[G-Funk]

Kobe, this is a joke right???

[SlayerEnraged]

Kob bryant at almost 34 years old is still better than wade...

[DMAVS41]

Kob bryant at almost 34 years old is still better than wade...

Ok.

In Wade's 2nd year he was better than Kobe in his 9th year. :confusedshrug:

[SlayerEnraged]

Ok.

In Wade's 2nd year he was better than Kobe in his 9th year. :confusedshrug:

I'm not basing it off stats. Im basing it on what i know and see with my eyes. Kobe's not close to best in the league now but neither is wade at least this season. Uhh yeah right to at Wade being being than Kobe in his 9th season..

[DMAVS41]

I'm not basing it off stats. Im basing it on what i know and see with my eyes. Kobe's not close to best in the league now but neither is wade at least this season. Uhh yeah right to at Wade being being than Kobe in his 9th season..

So you think Kobe was a better player than Wade in the 05 season?

[PickernRoller]

Ok.

In Wade's 2nd year he was better than Kobe in his 9th year. :confusedshrug:

Ohh its DMavs talking non-sense again. Kobe will take DWade to school any day of the week at his prime or not in his prime period. PERIOD. Only someone with a brain the size of a nut would say otherwise. Talk about numbers all you want, talk about your opinions all you want. Prime Kobe was better than Prime Wade and Kobe was and is a better overall SG than Wade will ever be, today, 2 years ago, 5 years ago. It's not close, the phrase really fits, not even close and I love DWade as much as I like Kobe, rejoiced when he made Dirk his bitch on 06. Rejoiced thinking of a championship run with LBJ......Too bad Lebron+Bosh are worse of a sidekick than a past prime Shaq. Good luck brah....keep living in fantasy land. Things are simple, don't try to throw stuff to add complexities to a simple thing Kobe>Wade.

[NumberSix]

I'm not basing it off stats. Im basing it on what i know and see with my eyes.
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, your eyes are stupid? :confusedshrug:

[The Iron Fist]

Yep.

Of course Kobe could have won in 06. No doubt about it. I merely said I think that would have been the hardest title for any of them to win out of the 6 they have won.

That doesn't mean I think Wade would for sure have 5 titles. Could he? Sure. He could have more. Or some things might have happened and he could only have 3 instead of 5.

Like you said, there is a difference between actually winning. Just like Wade learned last year. Although again, that is why circumstances matter so much when comparing players. If Lebron just plays average the Heat might have swept the Mavs. And we are sitting here talking about Wade is possibly a top 12 player of all time after 8 seasons.

Oh how fragile all this stuff is.

My main point is that really no matter how you slice it when comparing Kobe to Wade simply in terms of impact on the court. Its too close to call. When you factor in the career stuff is when the answer is clearly Kobe. But in terms of just playing basketball their 7 best years as you used above. Its very very very close.


Its not too close to call, only a bumbling ****ing moron like yourself would think so.

One guy, has facilitated for 5 championship teams, sacrificing his personal accolades for those of the team. When he didn't sacrifice his game, he was off the charts good. Much better than Wade. You will never see Kobe lead his team to 15 wins in one season.

Wade on the other hand, needs Shaq, refs, and two other all stars to compete.

[SlayerEnraged]

So you think Kobe was a better player than Wade in the 05 season?


Kobe was the best player in the leage in 2005 still. Was on a shit team but still the best player.

[DKLaker]

kobe easily. better at every facet of the game and only dumbasses think its close

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[TheNaturalWR]

Its not too close to call, only a bumbling ****ing moron like yourself would think so.

One guy, has facilitated for 5 championship teams, sacrificing his personal accolades for those of the team. When he didn't sacrifice his game, he was off the charts good. Much better than Wade. You will never see Kobe lead his team to 15 wins in one season.

Wade on the other hand, needs Shaq, refs, and two other all stars to compete.

Wow. You just threw your whole argument out the window with this bullshit of a statement. Shaq wasn't the DOMINANT force he was with the Lakers when he carried Kobe to 3 championships. Sacrificed accolades? If Kobe never had Shaq he wouldn't even be mentioned in the top 10 of all time. You will never see Wade demand a trade. How is Wade not sacrificing accolades and his game by playing with the most ball-dominant player in the league?

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was the best player in the leage in 2005 still. Was on a shit team but still the best player.

No...he wasn't. Just...no.

And I'll use the Kobe Stan logic.

Kobe made 3rd team all nba and wasn't on the all defensive team.

How on earth anyone could argue Kobe as the best player of 05 is absurd. I'm not even sure he was a top 10 player in 05...let alone the best.

And therein lies the problem with people like you. You are so far away from reality its pointless to even have a discussion.

Kobe best player in 05....:wtf:

[DMAVS41]

Its not too close to call, only a bumbling ****ing moron like yourself would think so.

One guy, has facilitated for 5 championship teams, sacrificing his personal accolades for those of the team. When he didn't sacrifice his game, he was off the charts good. Much better than Wade. You will never see Kobe lead his team to 15 wins in one season.

Wade on the other hand, needs Shaq, refs, and two other all stars to compete.

This is probably the worst laid out argument ever. Kobe won 3 of his titles with a much better version of Shaq...and did so never sacrificing anything. He still took an absurd amount of shots.

And Wade is sacrificing his personal accolades hugely these last two years playing with Lebron and Bosh.

Honestly....dumbest argument you could have possibly made.

[NumberSix]

This is probably the worst laid out argument ever. Kobe won 3 of his titles with a much better version of Shaq...and did so never sacrificing anything. He still took an absurd amount of shots.

And Wade is sacrificing his personal accolades hugely these last two years playing with Lebron and Bosh.

Honestly....dumbest argument you could have possibly made.
Wade is man enough to play alongside a better player. One thing that I'll never let go of about Kobe was his whiny little brat attitude of not wanting someone better than him on his team. He doesn't want anyone's light shining brighter than his, even if the cost being less likely to win. "All he cares about is winning" is the biggest myth about Kobe that's VERY easily debunked.

[D-Wade316]

'04 - Kobe
'05 - Wade
'06 - Wade
'07 - Kobe
'08 - Kobe
'09 - Wade
'10 - Wade
'11 - Wade
'12 - Wade

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.beaconlearningcenter.com/weblessons/headsiwin/AG00360_.GIF

http://netanimations.net/Moving-picture-hand-flipping-coin-gif-animation.gif

Or you could read my earlier post...

[Dizzle-2k7]

Kobe best player in 05....:wtf:

kobe in 05 was injured alot so its hard to gage... overall kobe gets my vote

[Deuce Bigalow]

'04 - Kobe
'05 - Wade
'06 - Wade
'07 - Kobe
'08 - Kobe
'09 - Wade
'10 - Wade
'11 - Wade
'12 - Wade
http://i.imm.io/kpVx.jpeg

and btw Wade called Kobe the best player in the league in '09

[DMAVS41]

kobe in 05 was injured alot so its hard to gage... overall kobe gets my vote

So then performance on the court doesn't matter. Its just 100% subjective and your opinion matters more.

Right?

Then Wade's 07 season needs to be looked at again. 27/5/8 on 49% shooting. LOL

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

We know neither can touch Jordan, but who had the better prime?

Wade or Kobe?



I would say Wade. Athough Kobe had the best individual performance (81)

:coleman:

IN Their prime.....KOBE WOULD EAT WADE ALIVE.....

[Mr. Jabbar]

Every neutral person in this thread who is not a known kobe fan/kobe hater/or wade fan, has said its kobe and its not even close, I'll just leave it there. Gnite ppl.

[Dizzle-2k7]

So then performance on the court doesn't matter. Its just 100% subjective and your opinion matters more.

Right?

Then Wade's 07 season needs to be looked at again. 27/5/8 on 49% shooting. LOL

with kobes athletic dominance and skill dominance its hard to say wade was ever better than kobe.. sure wade is a legend in his own right, but anytime between 97 and 2009, kobe has been kobe.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

No...he wasn't. Just...no.

And I'll use the Kobe Stan logic.

Kobe made 3rd team all nba and wasn't on the all defensive team.

How on earth anyone could argue Kobe as the best player of 05 is absurd. I'm not even sure he was a top 10 player in 05...let alone the best.

And therein lies the problem with people like you. You are so far away from reality its pointless to even have a discussion.

Kobe best player in 05....:wtf:


no wonder you are most active in this thread:

user posts
D-Wade316 9
DMAVS41 8

[Mr. Jabbar]

no wonder you are most active in this thread:

user posts
D-Wade316 9
DMAVS41 8

kobe haters be in damage control for a while now, specially active after a clutch night from gawdbe.

[DMAVS41]

with kobes athletic dominance and skill dominance its hard to say wade was ever better than kobe.. sure wade is a legend in his own right, but anytime between 97 and 2009, kobe has been kobe.

Uhhhh...what?

Kobe was not Kobe until 01. LOL...97? When he wasn't even a starter.

And from 05 to present...Wade has essentially been Wade.

Please come with something better.

[D-Wade316]

no wonder you are most active in this thread:

user posts
D-Wade316 9
DMAVS41 8
Kobe stans in this thread:
talkingconch
Brick Rick
DKLaker
BlueandGold
(e)
Jameerthefear
Mr. Jabbar
RazorBaLade
christian1923
LABean
Whoah10115
Fiasco
StateOfMind12
iDefend5
Magic bird
SMoKe0uT
Vienceslav
Deuce Bigalow
miggyme1
dunksby
blablabla
Bigsmoke
Kews1
Odinn
Extempo
DirtySanchez
Dictator
eliteballer
LA_Showtime
Heavincent
BlackJoker23
boxclever
G-Funk
SlayerEnraged
PickernRoller
The Iron Fist
Dizzle-2k7
+ you

:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Damn, DMAVS and D-Wade are fast.

:lol

[D-Wade316]

Damn, DMAVS and D-Wade are fast.

:lol
Well, I'm about to log off. I'm gonna hit the gym. :lol

[Legends66NBA7]

Well, I'm about to log off. I'm gonna hit the gym. :lol

It's just crazy, I'm reading DMAVS then refresh and all of sudden you got all these names.

:oldlol:

Take care, man. :cheers:

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Kobe stans in this thread:
talkingconch
Brick Rick
DKLaker
BlueandGold
(e)
Jameerthefear
Mr. Jabbar
RazorBaLade
christian1923
LABean
Whoah10115
Fiasco
StateOfMind12
iDefend5
Magic bird
SMoKe0uT
Vienceslav
Deuce Bigalow
miggyme1
dunksby
blablabla
Bigsmoke
Kews1
Odinn
Extempo
DirtySanchez
Dictator
eliteballer
LA_Showtime
Heavincent
BlackJoker23
boxclever
G-Funk
SlayerEnraged
PickernRoller
The Iron Fist
Dizzle-2k7
+ you

:oldlol:

tell me what has Wade done to even compare him to kobe? won a finals mvp when Mavs were double/triple teaming shaq and taking him out???

lol grow up....you calling me kobe stan doesnt change the reality

[Day La Ghetto]

I actually think wade could be playing close to the best basketballl of his career the way hes been playing since he came off that injury.his numbers dont show it but since coming off the injury he's getting around 25ppg on 50% .take Lebron away and I think he'd take that number up to around the 30ppg /7/5/1. His numbers can only go up without Lebron and as much as hes deferred to him the season.I'd go with Wade for primes because of how close they are in every aspect of the game except Wade has been so much more efficient all his career.

[D-Wade316]

I actually think wade could be playing close to the best basketballl of his career the way hes been playing since he came off that injury.his numbers dont show it but since coming off the injury he's getting around 25ppg on 50% .take Lebron away and I think he'd take that number up to around the 30ppg /7/5/1. His numbers can only go up without Lebron and as much as hes deferred to him the season.I'd go with Wade for primes because of how close they are in every aspect of the game except Wade has been so much more efficient all his career.
Yeah. Since the injury and before the Laker game, I honestly thought Wade had the best stretch of his career. Perhaps better than the '09 stretch after the All-star game.

per game: 24.4ppg, 4.3reb, 4.6ast, 52.9fg%, 59.7ts%, 31.1mpg
per 36min: 28.3ppg, 5.0reb, 5.4ast, 52.9fg%, 59.7ts%

[The Iron Fist]

Wade is man enough to play alongside a better player. One thing that I'll never let go of about Kobe was his whiny little brat attitude of not wanting someone better than him on his team. He doesn't want anyone's light shining brighter than his, even if the cost being less likely to win. "All he cares about is winning" is the biggest myth about Kobe that's VERY easily debunked.
Did Kobe not win 3 straight with someone you deem better? How is that"not man enough"?
Tell me the last time Kobe led a team to 15 wins in his prime?

Btw, Kobe didnt mind playing with Shaq , its the fat ass, lazy f uck who came into many a season out of shape. Its the unprofessional attitude shaq carried that Kobe and many fans didn't like.

" I get hurt on company time, ill heal on company time"

Seeing as how you've never played to win anything, I can see how that wouldn't bother you.

[The Iron Fist]

Wow. You just threw your whole argument out the window with this bullshit of a statement. Shaq wasn't the DOMINANT force he was with the Lakers when he carried Kobe to 3 championships. Sacrificed accolades? If Kobe never had Shaq he wouldn't even be mentioned in the top 10 of all time. You will never see Wade demand a trade. How is Wade not sacrificing accolades and his game by playing with the most ball-dominant player in the league?
If shaq was so dominant, why didn't he win more than four times? If Shaq never had Kobe he might only have one ring.
You'll never see Wade demand a trade because he colludes with other players to try and make superteams. Superteams that don't even win. :lol

[The Iron Fist]

This is probably the worst laid out argument ever. Kobe won 3 of his titles with a much better version of Shaq...and did so never sacrificing anything. He still took an absurd amount of shots.

And Wade is sacrificing his personal accolades hugely these last two years playing with Lebron and Bosh.

Honestly....dumbest argument you could have possibly made.
Actually its the truth. When Shaq left LA , all the Kobe haters said his game was going to suffer because Shaq wasn't there to take all the attention, all the haters said Kobe wouldmsee more double and triple teams because there wasn't a Shaq to focus on. Turns out, Kobe destroyed and toyed with those doubles and triples and had career years.


He sacrificed his peersonal game for the sake of the team.



Btw ,heats haven't won shit so the sacrifice by wade is pointless.:rockon:

[LA_Showtime]

Again, on what planet is Bryant a better passer than Wade? Certainly not Earth.

Wade is a more willing passer than Kobe, yeah. But Kobe's clearly the better facilitator, and if you don't believe me go watch film of the Kobe/Shaq era. He ran the offense, something Wade has and never will be able to do.

[miggyme1]

If shaq was so dominant, why didn't he win more than four times? If Shaq never had Kobe he might only have one ring.
You'll never see Wade demand a trade because he colludes with other players to try and make superteams. Superteams that don't even win. :lol

shaq came close to commiting career suicide.lol...he had a team built to win multiple rings in orlando.he should be thanking god kobe didnt wanna play in charlotte and that jerry west was smart enough to trade divac for him.the rest was history

[zay_24]

It's said how quicc people forgot how good Kobe was.
:facepalm

[TheNaturalWR]

Wade is a more willing passer than Kobe, yeah. But Kobe's clearly the better facilitator, and if you don't believe me go watch film of the Kobe/Shaq era. He ran the offense, something Wade has and never will be able to do.

Wade is one of the best facilitators at the shooting guard position in NBA history. Kobe doesn't even come close nor is he in the discussion. Wade can't run an offense? Is putting up 30 per game while setting up your scrub teammates to a tune of 7.5 assists a game not running an offense? It's not hard to run an offense with Shaq. Just feed the post is what he had to do and it's basically what he should be doing now but he DOESN'T.

[NumberSix]

Did Kobe not win 3 straight with someone you deem better? How is that"not man enough"?
Tell me the last time Kobe led a team to 15 wins in his prime?

Btw, Kobe didnt mind playing with Shaq , its the fat ass, lazy f uck who came into many a season out of shape. Its the unprofessional attitude shaq carried that Kobe and many fans didn't like.

" I get hurt on company time, ill heal on company time"

Seeing as how you've never played to win anything, I can see how that wouldn't bother you.
Lol. Son, I'm 28 years old and comfortably retired. Stay in your own lane.:roll:

[Rocketswin2013]

Prime Wade. He was just Jordan level.

[MichaelCorleone]

Prime - Wade

Peak - Wade

Think about it, prime Wade made Shaq a sidekick.

[Clyde]

wade was never considered the best player in the league by his peers.

discussion ova!

[Cold soul]

Kobe.

[HOoopCityJones]

This thread is hilarious.

Put it like this, does The Heat even consider offering Wade a Kobe retirement contract? Hell no.

[JohnFreeman]

This thread is hilarious.

Put it like this, does The Heat even consider offering Wade a Kobe retirement contract? Hell no.

He will get a contract, but Wade isn't selfish and won't lock up the cap.

[SamuraiSWISH]

How many times we gonna do this, yo ...

Wade's 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2011
Kobe's 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010

[Sharmer]

Kobe the better scorer in his prime, Wade stronger on the boards , fast breaks and slashing.

[Mr Feeny]

How many times we gonna do this, yo ...

Wade's 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2011
Kobe's 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010

Wade wasnt in the league till 2004. Why are we including 2001-2004 for Kobe?
And Wade > Kobe in both 2009 and 2010 (arguably 2006 as well)

[Jacks3]

Prime Kobe was easily the better player. From 06-08 he was the overwhelming consensus for the title of best player in the world, especially among the people who actually matter: players, analysts, and coaches. Wade? He doesn't have a single season of being the top dog. Hell, he only has about three seasons where he was even in the top 3. :oldlol:

[tmacattack33]

Prime Kobe was easily the better player. From 06-08 he was the overwhelming consensus for the title of best player in the world, especially among the people who actually matter: players, analysts, and coaches. Wade? He doesn't have a single season of being the top dog. Hell, he only has about three seasons where he was even in the top 3. :oldlol:

Very wrong.

Kobe was scoring a lot on a bad team in the regular season and didn't perform great in the playoffs when they did make it against Phoenix.

Wade was playing winning basketball and had one of the best playoff runs of this century in 2006. In 2006, Wade was the best player.

In 2007, Duncan had a tremendous year as well and lead his team to a Finals win.


Anyway, Wade's peak was not only in 2006 but also in 2008-2010. And that peak is very close to Kobe or above him.

[DMAVS41]

Prime Kobe was easily the better player. From 06-08 he was the overwhelming consensus for the title of best player in the world, especially among the people who actually matter: players, analysts, and coaches. Wade? He doesn't have a single season of being the top dog. Hell, he only has about three seasons where he was even in the top 3. :oldlol:

You can break it down many different ways, and Wade lost basically like a full season of his prime/peak due to injury, but perception and reality often differ;


But since coming into the league in 04 for Wade;

Kobe 28/6/5 56% TS 24.1 PER
Wade 25/5/6 57% TS 25.4 PER

Playoffs 04-12;

Kobe 28/5/5 55% TS 23.8 PER
Wade 25/6/5 56% TS 24.1 PER

There is more to it than just those numbers, but to act like there is a gap between the two since 04 or 05 is just laughable.

The edge goes to Kobe all time because of his superior longevity and durability to date...not because he was just better on court when both guys were right. Wade's numbers don't even do him justice because he lost at least a full season of his prime...and the above includes his rookie year.

But even with all that...they are a total toss up on the numbers..

Kobe has crunch time play going for him...while Wade has a pretty large defensive advantage as well.

We've been arguing this for years...and the end result is always the same. The two players are very close overall since Wade entered the league in 04.

And with Kobe missing this year completely now combined with the playoffs last year...the durability angle is losing a lot of it's merit.

[HOoopCityJones]

How many times we gonna do this, yo ...

Wade's 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2011
Kobe's 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010

Phuck that.

Kobe was clearly better than Wade from 08-10.

I swear this era of revisionist history is sad.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Dwyane Wade. Very close though.

[Solefade]

peak for peak?

wade 09 > any version of kobe


kobe has a better and longer prime though

[HOoopCityJones]

Any version of Wade gets shit on by Kobe, anyone who doesn't have Heat jizz tinted glasses knows this.

[DMAVS41]

Any version of Wade gets shit on by Kobe, anyone who doesn't have Heat jizz tinted glasses knows this.

God...shut up.

And no...09 and 10 Kobe is not clearly better than Wade.

Did you see how inept the Celtics were trying to stop Wade in 10 in the playoffs?????

And they didn't have to worry about anyone else either.

I don't care who anyone picks...but similar to the KG vs Dirk shit...this whole "clearly" and "easily" stuff really has to stop.

[HOoopCityJones]

God...shut up.

And no...09 and 10 Kobe is not clearly better than Wade.

Did you see how inept the Celtics were trying to stop Wade in 10 in the playoffs?????

And they didn't have to worry about anyone else either.

I don't care who anyone picks...but similar to the KG vs Dirk shit...this whole "clearly" and "easily" stuff really has to stop.

You don't even believe half the shit you say.

[Solefade]

You don't even believe half the shit you say.


lol you're such a tard

[Marlo_Stanfield]

peak:Wade
prime:Kobe
/thread:coleman:

[DMAVS41]

You don't even believe half the shit you say.

What?

Just look at the damn numbers. Wade lost a ton of games in his absolute prime due to injury...and the numbers are still very close.

Kobe "clearly" and "easily" ranks over Wade all time due to his longevity (1 good year and 3 great years before Wade came into the league) and his durability.

But if anyone thinks Kobe has been clearly better than Wade...just no. The big advantage Kobe has had during that time has been health...and now that is dwindling.

I love to hear Kobe fans rail on Wade about his durability...then penalize him for his playoff while clearly hurt in the playoffs last year. Then turn around and ignore that Kobe missed the playoffs due to injury (worse than playing) and has now missed all year.

[tpols]

Kobe's career post Shaq > Wade's whole career

2FMVPs to 1 FMVP
1 MVP to 0 MVPs
8 1st all nba teams to 2 1st all nba teams
Beat Wade in MVP voting almost every single year

its as unanimous as it can get

[Random_Guy]

IMO
Career wise/prime both goes to Kobe.
But peak to peak it really isnt that big a gap, I would slight give the gap to kobe, but wade was phoenomenal in 06 and 09, can go wrong with either tbh.
But really, a value of a played isnt really judged by his peak(unless the player peaked at the right time and won champs, which wade did). I mean TMAc's peak was ridiculous but nobody has him in the same tier as kobe.

[HOoopCityJones]

What?

Just look at the damn numbers. Wade lost a ton of games in his absolute prime due to injury...and the numbers are still very close.

Kobe "clearly" and "easily" ranks over Wade all time due to his longevity (1 good year and 3 great years before Wade came into the league) and his durability.

But if anyone thinks Kobe has been clearly better than Wade...just no. The big advantage Kobe has had during that time has been health...and now that is dwindling.

I love to hear Kobe fans rail on Wade about his durability...then penalize him for his playoff while clearly hurt in the playoffs last year. Then turn around and ignore that Kobe missed the playoffs due to injury (worse than playing) and has now missed all year.

You don't truly believe this bro.

I can see right pass the troll attempt.

[tpols]

What?

Just look at the damn numbers. Wade lost a ton of games in his absolute prime due to injury...and the numbers are still very close.

Kobe "clearly" and "easily" ranks over Wade all time due to his longevity (1 good year and 3 great years before Wade came into the league) and his durability.

But if anyone thinks Kobe has been clearly better than Wade...just no. The big advantage Kobe has had during that time has been health...and now that is dwindling.

I love to hear Kobe fans rail on Wade about his durability...then penalize him for his playoff while clearly hurt in the playoffs last year. Then turn around and ignore that Kobe missed the playoffs due to injury (worse than playing) and has now missed all year.

Kobe's in his 18th season lol.. Wade will be in his 18th season in 2022.

Hell be out of the league at that point.:oldlol: Wades been a shell the past two years which coincide with Kobe's 08 and 09 seasons career wise where Kobe was still a beast.


Honestly that is one of the more asinine statements I've ever read on this site.

[Cali Syndicate]

Impact...

Age 24
03 Kobe vs 06 Wade?
Interchange players, any change in outcome?

Age 27 and 28
06 Kobe vs 09 Wade?
07 Kobe vs 10 Wade?
Interchange players and probably still both first round knockouts. Wade had better supporting cast though.

Age 29-31
08 Kobe vs 11 Wade? Both lost in finals.
09 Kobe vs 12 wade? Back to....
10 Kobe vs 13 wade? Back
Kobe with Lebron still wins, probably makes the heat more dynamic.
Does 12 and 13 wade even win a ship on the lakers, let alone back to back?

[DMAVS41]

Kobe's career post Shaq > Wade's whole career

2FMVPs to 1 FMVP
1 MVP to 0 MVPs
8 1st all nba teams to 2 1st all nba teams
Beat Wade in MVP voting almost every single year

its as unanimous as it can get

Kobe's career post Shaq is basically Wade's career...so I don't understand that point at all.

And you are back to highly subjective things.

But why leave off titles won? Seems very agenda driven.

I prefer to look at the actual play overall...rather than interpretations of the play.

Since 04;

Wade is a 25/5/6 57% TS player
Kobe is a 28/6/5 56 % TS player

Wade has a higher PER. Same ortg. And a better drtg.

Kobe has played 38 more games than Wade during that span.

To act like there has been a clear difference in play is just astounding.

[tpols]

Impact...

Age 24
03 Kobe vs 06 Wade?
Interchange players, any change in outcome?

Age 27 and 28
06 Kobe vs 09 Wade?
07 Kobe vs 10 Wade?
Interchange players and probably still both first round knockouts. Wade had better supporting cast though.

Age 29-31
08 Kobe vs 11 Wade? Both lost in finals.
09 Kobe vs 12 wade? Back to....
10 Kobe vs 13 wade? Back
Kobe with Lebron still wins, probably makes the heat more dynamic.
Does 12 and 13 wade even win a ship on the lakers, let alone back to back?

yup.. and then you have to account for 01 and 02 Kobe being miles ahead of rookie and sohpohmore Wade.. and of course 00 Kobe being better than college Wade.

But Kobe being injured in his 18th season, one where Wade has missed a ton of games himself, erases all of that

[DMAVS41]

yup.. and then you have to account for 01 and 02 Kobe being miles ahead of rookie and sohpohmore Wade.. and of course 00 Kobe being better than college Wade.

But Kobe being injured in his 18th season, one where Wade has missed a ton of games himself, erases all of that

Total strawman.

I have no heard 1 person say Wade has had a better career.

The debate has always been 04 or 05 to present.

You are now just shifting the argument.

Clearly Kobe has had a better career than Wade and deserves to be ranked over him.

[tpols]

Its not a strawman because Kobe's prime didnt start in 2004.. which is the starting point for your comparison. You're skewing the discussion.


For primes its Kobe 01-10, and Wade 06-11. That is the point of this thread.. not whatever youre talking

[Droid101]

Kobe hate thread? Let's see who posted the most:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-326exr1jLcU/UxjNIs2x4_I/AAAAAAAAnjc/U6ovHKyA5lI/w322-h304-no/Capture.PNG

Wow what a shocking turn of events! The notoriously stupid Kobe Hater and pretend Maverick fan, DMAVS!

[DMAVS41]

Its not a strawman because Kobe's prime didnt start in 2004.. which is the starting point for your comparison. You're skewing the discussion.


For primes its Kobe 01-10, and Wade 06-11. That is the point of this thread.. not whatever youre talking

I was responding to your claim about Kobe's career post Shaq vs Wade. Seriously...what are you talking about?

Again...Kobe's advantage is his longevity and longer prime.

I'll do the above for you.

29/6/5 56% TS 24.6 PER 113 ortg 105 drtg for Kobe

27/5/7 57% TS 27.2 PER 113 ortg 104 drtg for Wade


Playoffs 29/6/5 55% TS 23.5 PER 111 ortg 106 drtg for Kobe

Playoffs 27/6/6 58% TS 26.1 PER 112 ortg 102 drtg for Wade

So you really want us to conclude on actual play that Kobe is on a different level? I used your criteria on years for this as well...

Again, it's longevity and durability that propels Kobe ahead...not actual play

The above breakdown you wanted? Shit..give me Wade on play alone.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe hate thread? Let's see who posted the most:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-326exr1jLcU/UxjNIs2x4_I/AAAAAAAAnjc/U6ovHKyA5lI/w322-h304-no/Capture.PNG

Wow what a shocking turn of events! The notoriously stupid Kobe Hater and pretend Maverick fan, DMAVS!

The first sign of losing an argument...

[Quickening]

Its not a strawman because Kobe's prime didnt start in 2004.. which is the starting point for your comparison. You're skewing the discussion.


For primes its Kobe 01-10, and Wade 06-11. That is the point of this thread.. not whatever youre talking

Players primes don't last 10 years.... Lebron has been arguably the best player in the league for 8 years, but that doesn't mean his prime will be 10 years plus.

The idea of a prime is a 3-4 year stretch usually in the mid to late 20s. You can say one player has better logevity, but if you're comparing primes, saying 10 year is ridiculous in my opinion. Peak is their absolute best season.

[tpols]

Players primes don't last 10 years.... Lebron has been arguably the best player in the league for 8 years, but that doesn't mean his prime will be 10 years plus.

The idea of a prime is a 3-4 year stretch usually in the mid to late 20s. You can say one player has better logevity, but if you're comparing primes, saying 10 year is ridiculous in my opinion. Peak is their absolute best season.

to say Kobe wasnt in his prime when he was dropping 45 and 10 to open a series against the spurs.. leading the NBA in playoff 4th quarter scoring while winning titles averaging 29/7/6 is.. wierd.

What would you call it then?

[Doranku]

I was responding to your claim about Kobe's career post Shaq vs Wade. Seriously...what are you talking about?

Again...Kobe's advantage is his longevity and longer prime.

I'll do the above for you.

29/6/5 56% TS 24.6 PER 113 ortg 105 drtg for Kobe

27/5/7 57% TS 27.2 PER 113 ortg 104 drtg for Wade


Playoffs 29/6/5 55% TS 23.5 PER 111 ortg 106 drtg for Kobe

Playoffs 27/6/6 58% TS 26.1 PER 112 ortg 102 drtg for Wade

So you really want us to conclude on actual play that Kobe is on a different level? I used your criteria on years for this as well...

Again, it's longevity and durability that propels Kobe ahead...not actual play

The above breakdown you wanted? Shit..give me Wade on play alone.

This is why PER shouldn't be taken seriously. The numbers are virtually IDENTICAL, yet Wade's PER is 3 points higher which is a pretty significant difference.

[tpols]

Again, it's longevity and durability that propels Kobe ahead...not actual play


When one players prime is twice as long as the other.. thats twice the chances to win. It matters.. a lot. And factors into what makes them, them.

Wade woulda been done after Shaq given Kobes career trajectory..
Wades 12 season which was the start of the end of his prime came season wise around 07 Kobe. 12 and 13 and 14 Wade couldnt lead a team to a title as the first option. Not even close. 07, 08, 09, and 10 Kobe could.

And that matters a lot.

[DMAVS41]

And you could do 05 through 12 vs 01 through 10 to make the year totals a little closer. And Wade still compares very well.

Wade;

26/5/6 57% TS 26.6 PER 112 ortg 103 drtg

Playoffs 26/6/5 57% TS 24.9 PER 110 ortg 102 drtg

Kobe;

29/6/5 56% TS 24.6 PER 113 ortg 105 drtg

Playoffs 29/6/5 55% TS 23.5 PER 111 ortg 106 drtg

[DMAVS41]

When one players prime is twice as long as the other.. thats twice the chances to win. It matters.. a lot. And factors into what makes them, them.

Wade woulda been done after Shaq given Kobes career trajectory..
Wades 12 season which was the start of the end of his prime came season wise around 07 Kobe. 12 and 13 and 14 Wade couldnt lead a team to a title as the first option. Not even close.

And that matters a lot.

I agree with a lot of this. Which is why Kobe is ranked over Wade all time clearly...it's not debatable.

However, you said Kobe's prime was 01 through 10. 10 years. I just put up 05 through 12 for Wade...which is 8 years. And the numbers are very similar yet again.

So on your own definition...Kobe's prime absolutely did not last twice as long as Wade's.

Again...it's injuries/durability and longevity that places Kobe over Wade.

[Doranku]

And you could do 05 through 12 vs 01 through 10 to make the year totals a little closer. And Wade still compares very well.

Wade;

26/5/6 57% TS 26.6 PER 112 ortg 103 drtg

Playoffs 26/6/5 57% TS 24.9 PER 110 ortg 102 drtg

Kobe;

29/6/5 56% TS 24.6 PER 113 ortg 105 drtg

Playoffs 29/6/5 55% TS 23.5 PER 111 ortg 106 drtg

I'm not sure this is fair. Wade's numbers went down across the board with the inclusion of those extra years. I'm sure if you extended the Kobe's years from 01-12 (or even 13, but he didn't play in the playoffs so I guess that's not really fair), Kobe's numbers would see a similar decline and we'd be back to Kobe having close to twice as many years included.

[tpols]

I agree with a lot of this. Which is why Kobe is ranked over Wade all time clearly...it's not debatable.

However, you said Kobe's prime was 01 through 10. 10 years. I just put up 05 through 12 for Wade...which is 8 years. And the numbers are very similar yet again.

So on your own definition...Kobe's prime absolutely did not last twice as long as Wade's.

Again...it's injuries/durability and longevity that places Kobe over Wade.

Wades prime was 06 to 11.. thats six years.

Kobe's prime was 01 to 10.. thats ten years.


Its very close to double... idk what youre going on about but its completely irrelevant to the question posed by the op

[DMAVS41]

I'm not sure this is fair. Wade's numbers went down across the board with the inclusion of those extra years. I'm sure if you extended the Kobe's years from 01-12 (or even 13, but he didn't play in the playoffs so I guess that's not really fair), Kobe's numbers would see a similar decline and we'd be back to Kobe having close to twice as many years included.

Again...at that point we are just comparing careers. Which everyone agrees should go to Kobe.

So I'm really confused as to what the points you guys are trying to make.

If you extend Kobe from 01 through 13...that is his entire career essentially...the only year missing of relevance would be 00....

So again...I'm really confused.

[tpols]

I'm not sure this is fair. Wade's numbers went down across the board with the inclusion of those extra years. I'm sure if you extended the Kobe's years from 01-12 (or even 13, but he didn't play in the playoffs so I guess that's not really fair), Kobe's numbers would see a similar decline and we'd be back to Kobe having close to twice as many years included.

we wouldnt because the difference would go from 6 to 10 (almost double) , to 12 to 8.. which isnt close to double.


Another dmavs debating technique.. switch comparison to parameters outside the actual discussion to combat a previously valid point

[DMAVS41]

This is why PER shouldn't be taken seriously. The numbers are virtually IDENTICAL, yet Wade's PER is 3 points higher which is a pretty significant difference.

There are other things that go into PER...and Wade was playing like 2 less minutes per game as well during that time.

[Doranku]

Again...at that point we are just comparing careers. Which everyone agrees should go to Kobe.

So I'm really confused as to what the points you guys are trying to make.

If you extend Kobe from 01 through 13...that is his entire career essentially...the only year missing of relevance would be 00....

So again...I'm really confused.

...

You just did the same thing for Wade??? The only missing year of relevance for Wade you're missing is '13 when you do '05-'12...

[DMAVS41]

we wouldnt because the difference would go from 6 to 10 (almost double) , to 12 to 8.. which isnt close to double.


Another dmavs debating technique.. switch comparison to parameters outside the actual discussion to combat a previously valid point

switching?

what?

you don't get to just randomly claim Wade wasn't in his prime in 05...he absolutely was...for starters.

So it's 7 to 10 at the very least. And again...that is why Kobe is ranked over Wade all time for his career. He had a longer...what you are calling...prime...and better longevity/durability.

[DMAVS41]

...

You just did the same thing for Wade??? The only missing year of relevance for Wade you're missing is '13 when you do '05-'12...

His career has been shorter!

What do you expect?

You are just making an argument for Kobe's longevity at this point...which we all concede and agree with.

Do you not realize how stupid you guys are being?

You see someone put up their numbers in the years tpols has deemed as their primes. Wade has as good or better numbers...and then tpols says...but Kobe's prime is twice as long (factually false)...it's 30% longer...but that isn't even a valid point because nobody is debating that!

[DMAVS41]

Wades prime was 06 to 11.. thats six years.

Kobe's prime was 01 to 10.. thats ten years.


Its very close to double... idk what youre going on about but its completely irrelevant to the question posed by the op

I think you have to include 05 if you are going to factor in the length of the prime. You don't get to just cuff off 05 for no reason and then hold it against Wade for having a shorter prime.

By all means...include 00 or 11 if you want Kobe to have an 11 to 7 year advantage on the prime.

Wade in 05 was easily better than Kobe was in 04...yet we give Kobe 04 and don't give Wade 05. WHAT?

[Doranku]

switching?

what?

you don't get to just randomly claim Wade wasn't in his prime in 05...he absolutely was...for starters.

So it's 7 to 10 at the very least. And again...that is why Kobe is ranked over Wade all time for his career. He had a longer...what you are calling...prime...and better longevity/durability.

And in '12 he absolutely wasn't. So yeah, it's 7 to 10 years. Not quite twice as long but still a significant difference.

And again, I think longevity/durability, in this case, should be factored into level of play because it's related to each player's style.

Wade's style of play could never be sustained by anyone for much longer than 7 years. He was reckless with his body during his peak years and now his body is paying for it. Kobe's style of play, on the other hand, promotes longevity. The footwork, midrange game, shooting ability in general, and basketball fundamentals are why he's been able to remain both healthy and an elite player for so long.

That should absolutely factor into these discussions. A basketball style which gives 10 years of prime play is >>>>>> a style which gives 7 years of prime play.

[DMAVS41]

And in '12 he absolutely wasn't. So yeah, it's 7 to 10 years. Not quite twice as long but still a significant difference.

And again, I think longevity/durability, in this case, should be factored into level of play because it's related to each player's style.

Wade's style of play could never be sustained by anyone for much longer than 7 years. He was reckless with his body during his peak years and now his body is paying for it. Kobe's style of play, on the other hand, promotes longevity. The footwork, midrange game, shooting ability in general, and basketball fundamentals are why he's been able to remain both healthy and an elite player for so long.

That should absolutely factor into these discussions. A basketball style which gives 10 years of prime play is >>>>>> a style which gives 7 years of prime play.

So we agree.

This is why Kobe should be ranked over Wade.

[Doranku]

So we agree.

This is why Kobe should be ranked over Wade.

I suppose so.

Also, another thing is that Kobe made the finals SIX times during the 10 years of his prime.

Wade, whose prime I think should be considered 05-11, made the finals twice in 6 years.

Kobe maintained his numbers over not only a longer time span, but throughout much deeper playoff runs which is another thing that should be considered when looking at the context of these numbers.

[DMAVS41]

I suppose so.

Also, another thing is that Kobe made the finals SIX times during the 10 years of his prime.

Wade, whose prime I think should be considered 05-11, made the finals twice in 6 years.

Kobe maintained his numbers over not only a longer time span, but throughout much deeper playoff runs which is another thing that should be considered when looking at the context of these numbers.

Agreed, however that is a bit unfair.

Kobe had Shaq for 4 of those years...and then clearly the best team in the West for 3 more.

Wade didn't play with near that amount of help. He had a lesser Shaq than Kobe did (still great for 2 years) and then had Lebron for 1 year. So in the 7 years of Wade's prime...he had a team good enough to make the finals 3 times. He made two finals...and made the conference finals the other year.

So by all means props to Kobe for making the finals 6 times in 10 years, but the amount of help is completely different.

[tpols]

I suppose so.

Also, another thing is that Kobe made the finals SIX times during the 10 years of his prime.

Wade, whose prime I think should be considered 05-11, made the finals twice in 6 years.

Kobe maintained his numbers over not only a longer time span, but throughout much deeper playoff runs which is another thing that should be considered when looking at the context of these numbers.

yup.. for their primes, 148 playoff games started for Kobe.. only 60 started for Wade. Huge difference

The sample sizes are so far apart. When Wade had to play multiple long playoff runs in a row? He broke down.

[Doranku]

Agreed, however that is a bit unfair.

Kobe had Shaq for 4 of those years...and then clearly the best team in the West for 3 more.

Wade didn't play with near that amount of help. He had a lesser Shaq than Kobe did (still great for 2 years) and then had Lebron for 1 year. So in the 7 years of Wade's prime...he had a team good enough to make the finals 3 times. He made two finals...and made the conference finals the other year.

So by all means props to Kobe for making the finals 6 times in 10 years, but the amount of help is completely different.

Different, yes maybe, but completely different? Like you said, Wade himself had a great Shaq for two years. And having LeBron James in 2011 is equal to having prime Shaq, imo, as LeBron was the best player in the league. Not as good as prime Shaq obviously, but in a weaker league.

And yeah, Wade was 2/3 in making the finals when having a good enough team... but Kobe was 6/7.

I think you misunderstood my point anyway. I wasn't focusing on the fact that Kobe made the finals 6 times in 10 years persay. It's just that he was able to maintain his averages while playing against higher quality opponents more often than Wade did.

Now if you want to argue that Kobe's great play was in part made possible by Shaq's presence, then that's another argument entirely, but I hope you can see the point I'm trying to make.

[DMAVS41]

yup.. for their primes, 148 playoff games started for Kobe.. only 60 started for Wade. Huge difference

The sample sizes are so far apart. When Wade had to play multiple long playoff runs in a row? He broke down.


See...I'm still a bit confused.

Are you conceding that when healthy...there is no difference between Wade and Kobe in terms of impact?

And that it's durability, length of prime, and longevity that separates them?

Because nobody has ever claimed some of the things you are arguing against.

[DMAVS41]

Different, yes maybe, but completely different? Like you said, Wade himself had a great Shaq for two years. And having LeBron James in 2011 is equal to having prime Shaq, imo, as LeBron was the best player in the league. Not as good as prime Shaq obviously, but in a weaker league.

And yeah, Wade was 2/3 in making the finals when having a good enough team... but Kobe was 6/7.

I think you misunderstood my point anyway. I wasn't focusing on the fact that Kobe made the finals 6 times in 10 years persay. It's just that he was able to maintain his averages while playing against higher quality opponents more often than Wade did.

Now if you want to argue that Kobe's great play was in part made possible by Shaq's presence, then that's another argument entirely, but I hope you can see the point I'm trying to make.

Well, only having 3 chances in 7 years and never playing with peak Shaq is different than playing with peak Shaq and having 7 chances in 10 years. Also, peak Shaq isn't choking in the finals...costing his team a title.

And this is where it gets even more unfair. Wade made the finals in 12. So that would be 3 out of 4 years...and Kobe had a team good enough in 11 and didn't. So he goes to 6 out of 8.

See...it just gets a little absurd when you pick the years we compare...and then reward Kobe for playing with much great help in terms of chances to make the finals...and then hate on Wade for a shorter time span.

But again...I don't see anyone refuting your points. I have yet to hear anyone say that Wade has better skills, or longevity, or durability...or be ranked over Kobe all time.


I also have to mention that I'm not sure Kobe was better in 04 vs Wade in 12...they both missed games due to injury. And while Kobe was better offensively imo, Wade played elite defense with a 99 drtg. And Wade certainly played better in the finals than Kobe did.

Or 05 for that matter...Kobe wasn't himself and again played almost no defense at all...I'd definitely take 12 Wade over 05 Kobe. So again I'm having trouble understanding why Wade is limited to 06 through 11 initially...now you have come off that and included 05...but why not 12? 12 Wade was every bit as good as Kobe in 04 and 05.

So I'm not sure it's fair to count the years the way you guys did...not to mention you are holding things like finals made and years played against Wade.

[Jacks3]

Kobe was scoring a lot on a bad team in the regular season and didn't perform great in the playoffs when they did make it against Phoenix.
No, he was having a season (2006) that's better than any of Wade's, and had a great series vs the Suns.


Wade was playing winning basketball and had one of the best playoff runs of this century in 2006. In 2006, Wade was the best player.

:oldlol:

No, Kobe was easily better that season. Far better scorer, better defender, took much better care of the ball, and possessed a skill-set that was far more polished than Wade's. Kobe was GOAT level during the last 64 or so games of that season after getting off to a slow start. 37 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2+ SPG/57% TS/116 ORTG and his team had a 110.3 ORTG (top 5 in the league) with a supporting cast of Kwame Brown/Luke Walton/Smush Parker/Odom/Mihm/Brian Cook. It's not really close.

In 2007, Duncan had a tremendous year as well and lead his team to a Finals win.

Ok, but Bryant was the best player.

Anyway, Wade's peak was not only in 2006 but also in 2008-2010. And that peak is very close to Kobe or above him.
His peak is 09-11. That's easily his best stretch.

Kobe's was 06-08. 09-11 Wade has no argument over 06-08 Kobe.

[Jacks3]

Is this a joke? The answer is clearly Kobe. Wade never had a 4 year stretch like Kobe did from '06-'09. What did Wade honestly even do better than Kobe? Shoot a better FG%? Cause that is the only thing I can think of.
Yep.

[red1]

kobe's prime is twice as long so you have to give him the nod

[JohnFreeman]

Wade is the second most unstoppable SG in history.

[houston]

kobe of course

[RoseCity07]

Wade for me. The decision isn't really that close. What Wade did in the NBA finals against the Mavs is one of the most legendary things I've ever seen. Off the past 15 years, Wade's domination and what Dirk did in 2011 are the most impressive things I've seen from individual talents.

Kobe never did anything like what Wade did. He had a chance to do that against the Suns in 2006. Instead the Suns came back on LA after being down 3-1. I've seen all I need from Kobe. Kobe is a great player, but more of a glorified Allen Iverson. They both need a high volume of shots to put up their numbers. If Kobe ends up in Philly no way he has the same career success. Kobe's longevity might make him comparable, but Wade was a better player.

[The_Yearning]

Wade for me. The decision isn't really that close. What Wade did in the NBA finals against the Mavs is one of the most legendary things I've ever seen. Off the past 15 years, Wade's domination and what Dirk did in 2011 are the most impressive things I've seen from individual talents.

Kobe never did anything like what Wade did. He had a chance to do that against the Suns in 2006. Instead the Suns came back on LA after being down 3-1. I've seen all I need from Kobe. Kobe is a great player, but more of a glorified Allen Iverson. They both need a high volume of shots to put up their numbers. If Kobe ends up in Philly no way he has the same career success. Kobe's longevity might make him comparable, but Wade was a better player.

Man are you serious? You should be banned from any Kobe discussions. You're just as bad as Loki.

[RoseCity07]

Man are you serious? You should be banned from any Kobe discussions. You're just as bad as Loki.

I really do mean it when I say Kobe is a glorified Allen Iverson. Since most people believe AI is the best pound for pound player ever it's not that disrespectful to say. What I mean by that is that Kobe was never as dominant as Wade. Wade carried Miami to a title in his 3rd year.

What did Kobe do? Win 3 titles on the back of prime Shaq. Then lose a shit ton of game when he was traded. Then when they got one of the power forwards in the game, with one of the best wing defenders, with one of the best centers in the game, they finally started winning again.

Wade is his prime was a a better player.

[chazzy]

Man are you serious? You should be banned from any Kobe discussions. You're just as bad as Loki.
Dude is ridiculously biased, don't take him seriously: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9621318&postcount=611

[chazzy]

What did Kobe do? Win 3 titles on the back of prime Shaq. Then lose a shit ton of game when he was traded. Then when they got one of the power forwards in the game, with one of the best wing defenders, with one of the best centers in the game, they finally started winning again.

Wade is his prime was a a better player.
What did Wade do when he didn't have a productive Shaq and Lebron fn James? Stupid argument

[RoseCity07]

Dude is ridiculously biased, don't take him seriously: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9621318&postcount=611

Do you follow me everywhere on this board?:oldlol:

Why don't you link to the reply to your comment? I responded to how your post made no sense.

[JohnFreeman]

Wade always gave Kobe trouble..
inb4 gif of Kobe hitting game winner over Wade

[chazzy]

Why don't you link to the reply to your comment? I responded to how your post made no sense.
Considering your excuse for the contrast in your reactions included Lebron's 1 whole percent superior efficiency, didn't think it was necessary

[D.J.]

Kobe, but Wade deserves credit. He took an equally shitty team to 43 wins and almost a first round upset. Granted the East in '09 wasn't as tough as the West in '06, but both teams are 20-25 win teams at best without both stars. Kobe averaged over 35 a night and took the Lakers to 45 wins in a conference with two 60 win teams that had prime Dirk and prime Duncan, a 54 win team, and five other teams overall with at least 47 wins. The East had two 60 win teams and a 59 win team, but 3 playoff teams didn't even have winning records.

[DMAVS41]

I really do mean it when I say Kobe is a glorified Allen Iverson. Since most people believe AI is the best pound for pound player ever it's not that disrespectful to say. What I mean by that is that Kobe was never as dominant as Wade. Wade carried Miami to a title in his 3rd year.

What did Kobe do? Win 3 titles on the back of prime Shaq. Then lose a shit ton of game when he was traded. Then when they got one of the power forwards in the game, with one of the best wing defenders, with one of the best centers in the game, they finally started winning again.

Wade is his prime was a a better player.

Is glorified Allen Iverson supposed to be insulting? Yea...Kobe is Allen Iverson that can score about as well on better efficiency and play better defense.

LOL

And it sounds like you would take Kobe over Wade for their careers...which is a joke at this point. It's really close from 04 through this year, but Kobe had already put in 1 all-star type year in 00...and then three years in which he was elite before Wade even played a game.

That puts him over the top career vs career easily.

[Mr Feeny]

Wade for me. The decision isn't really that close. What Wade did in the NBA finals against the Mavs is one of the most legendary things I've ever seen. Off the past 15 years, Wade's domination and what Dirk did in 2011 are the most impressive things I've seen from individual talents.

Kobe never did anything like what Wade did. He had a chance to do that against the Suns in 2006. Instead the Suns came back on LA after being down 3-1. I've seen all I need from Kobe. Kobe is a great player, but more of a glorified Allen Iverson. They both need a high volume of shots to put up their numbers. If Kobe ends up in Philly no way he has the same career success. Kobe's longevity might make him comparable, but Wade was a better player.

That's pretty much exactly my take on it. Peak-wise, only MJ was better than Wade.

[Mr Feeny]

Is glorified Allen Iverson supposed to be insulting? Yea...Kobe is Allen Iverson that can score about as well on better efficiency and play better defense.

LOL

And it sounds like you would take Kobe over Wade for their careers...which is a joke at this point. It's really close from 04 through this year, but Kobe had already put in 1 all-star type year in 00...and then three years in which he was elite before Wade even played a game.

That puts him over the top career vs career easily.

I don't think the argument is career vs career. It's peak vs peak in which case a lot of people (perhaps majority) would take Wade over Kobe. Cheers

[havoc33]

I don't think the argument is career vs career. It's peak vs peak in which case a lot of people (perhaps majority) would take Wade over Kobe. Cheers
Why would you though? A players prime usually start in their mid to late 20s, and lasts no more than 4-5 years. They might still perform at a high level after this, but physically they have started a noticeable decline. Magic's peak was 86-90. MJ was 89-93.

Now let's compare Kobe and Wade. Kobe's peak is 06-10. Wade is 2008-2012. I don't have time to look up the numbers, but I'm quite sure they are somewhat similar, as both Kobe and Wade had great individual seasons in this period. However, if you look beyond the stats, Wade was injured several times throughout his prime, while Kobe played almost every game. Furthermore, here are the accolades for Kobe in this period: 1 x regular season MVP, won 2/3 Finals as first option, 2xFMVP, 5 x All NBA First Team and 5 x All NBA Defensive First team. Now look at Wade: won 1/2 Finals as second option, only 2 x All NBA First Team and never made the All NBA Defensive First Team.

So it's kinda interesting to think about how Kobe won three chips early on outside his prime as the second option (or 1b as you might call it in 01 and 02), while Wade's was the first option on his one title outside of his prime. You can't say that 2006 was part of Wade's prime, it was just a great individual year early on, much like Kobe had in 2001. Either way you look at it, Kobe beats Wade both when comparing primes and their careers as a whole.

[Mr Feeny]

Why would you though? A players prime usually start in their mid to late 20s, and lasts no more than 4-5 years. They might still perform at a high level after this, but physically they have started a noticeable decline. Magic's peak was 86-90. MJ was 89-93.

Now let's compare Kobe and Wade. Kobe's peak is 06-10. Wade is 2008-2012. I don't have time to look up the numbers, but I'm quite sure they are somewhat similar, as both Kobe and Wade had great individual seasons in this period. However, if you look beyond the stats, Wade was injured several times throughout his prime, while Kobe played almost every game. Furthermore, here are the accolades for Kobe in this period: 1 x regular season MVP, won 2/3 Finals as first option, 2xFMVP, 5 x All NBA First Team and 5 x All NBA Defensive First team. Now look at Wade: won 1/2 Finals as second option, only 2 x All NBA First Team and never made the All NBA Defensive First Team.

So it's kinda interesting to think about how Kobe won three chips early on outside his prime as the second option (or 1b as you might call it in 01 and 02), while Wade's was the first option on his one title outside of his prime. You can't say that 2006 was part of Wade's prime, it was just a great individual year early on, much like Kobe had in 2001. Either way you look at it, Kobe beats Wade both when comparing primes and their careers as a whole.

It's a semantics issue. I thought we were discussing absolute peaks. In that case, it's 2009 Wade vs 2006 Kobe and I'll take Wade everytime. Defensively, he's a tier above. Kobe, in my opinion, stopped playing lockdown defense after the 2004 season. I don't blame him. It is energy consuming and he had to preserve much of it to carry the Lakers offensively. But I'd take Wade. At their absolute peaks, Wade was a better playmaker and defensive player. Like I said, over their careers (or even a long stretch) maybe you would take Kobe. But that's because of Wade's injuries. Basketball wise, I don't see any argument here is we are talking peak vs peak.

[havoc33]

It's a semantics issue. I thought we were discussing absolute peaks. In that case, it's 2009 Wade vs 2006 Kobe and I'll take Wade everytime. Defensively, he's a tier above. Kobe, in my opinion, stopped playing lockdown defense after the 2004 season. I don't blame him. It is energy consuming and he had to preserve much of it to carry the Lakers offensively. But I'd take Wade. At their absolute peaks, Wade was a better playmaker and defensive player. Like I said, over their careers (or even a long stretch) maybe you would take Kobe. But that's because of Wade's injuries. Basketball wise, I don't see any argument here is we are talking peak vs peak.2006 wasn't even Kobe's best season? There's more to the game than PER and PPG will ever tell you. In the end it's subjective of course, but I do think you are overrating Wade and underrating Kobe. While Kobe wasn't deserving of all his defensive first team selections, he certainly still played good D when it mattered during 06-10, and could still lock down in the Playoffs, which he did on Westbrook in 2010. I also don't consider Wade a much better playmaker. Their offensive games are just molded a bit differently, but as Kobe showed during the first threepeat, and in spurts during the 09 and 10 runs, he was a very good floor leader and could rack up the assists when needed. If you want to talk about allround game, it is no coincidence that Kobe has 17 career triple doubles while Wade has only four.

Wade had one sensational year where you could arguably make a case for him being as good or better as Kobe, but much like in T-Mac's case, clinging on to that one magical year just doesn't cut it overall. Wade has never been considered a better player than prime Kobe, and it's not really close when you look at it. Unless you wanna cherry pick seasons like you are doing of course, and put a heavy emphasis on advanced statistics.

[Mr Feeny]

2006 wasn't even Kobe's best season? There's more to the game than PER and PPG will ever tell you. In the end it's subjective of course, but I do think you are overrating Wade and underrating Kobe. While Kobe wasn't deserving of all his defensive first team selections, he certainly still played good D when it mattered during 06-10, and could still lock down in the Playoffs, which he did on Westbrook in 2010. I also don't consider Wade a much better playmaker. Their offensive games are just molded a bit differently, but as Kobe showed during the first threepeat, and in spurts during the 09 and 10 runs, he was a very good floor leader and could rack up the assists when needed. If you want to talk about allround game, it is no coincidence that Kobe has 17 career triple doubles while Wade has only four.

Wade had one sensational year where you could arguably make a case for him being as good or better as Kobe, but much like in T-Mac's case, clinging on to that one magical year just doesn't cut it overall. Wade has never been considered a better player than prime Kobe, and it's not really close when you look at it. Unless you wanna cherry pick seasons like you are doing of course, and put a heavy emphasis on advanced

I'd argue the exact opposite. Whether it is 2008-2010 Kobe, 2003 Kobe, or 2006 Kobe, none of them were as good as 2009-2010 Wade. It's all about opinion so you can't be wrong if you think Kobe is better. I just don't think Kobe was ever as good as 2009-2010 Wade. That's all the argument is about really. Peak for peak.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ni99as straight talk out of their ass on ISH.

[ArbitraryWater]

HCJ in this thread = Pure comedy.

[pastis]

i take kobe.

1. Wade only in the EC, putting up those numbers in the EC has to be put in relation.

2. kobe is not a ***** who needs a wheelchair for a shoulder injury, cry me a river-like whining....only to appear few minutes later, like there was nothing.
kobe didnt need to joke in a nba final about the opponents best man like childish biatches

:applause:

[Heavincent]

Peak play is close, but in terms of prime? Kobe and it's not even close, due to his prime lasting for much longer.

[lilteapot]

Kobe's prime was much longer than Wades. Kobe for that reason.

[Dresta]

i take kobe.

1. Wade only in the EC, putting up those numbers in the EC has to be put in relation.

2. kobe is not a ***** who needs a wheelchair for a shoulder injury, cry me a river-like whining....only to appear few minutes later, like there was nothing.
kobe didnt need to joke in a nba final about the opponents best man like childish biatches

:applause:
Wade does and always has tended to put up bigger numbers against Western Conference teams - so enough with that nonsense. It is not harder to put up numbers in the Western Conference, harder to win yes, but to put up good stats? Don't be absurd.

[BigBoss]

Wade has even scored 20,000 points yet

[Heavincent]

Is Wade even in the 20k/4k/4k club? Let alone the 30k/6k/6k club.

[derb2k2]

Prime Wade over Kobe. Wade would actually shut Kobe down 1 versus 1 and Wade is without a doubt the better playmaker and teammate.

Give me the playmaker.

[Dresta]

Is Wade even in the 20k/4k/4k club? Let alone the 30k/6k/6k club.
What do aggregated career stats have to do with a player's prime?

[Haymaker]

Peak Wade was better. Prime Kobe was better. /end thread

[brownmamba00]

Prime Wade over Kobe. Wade would actually shut Kobe down 1 versus 1 and Wade is without a doubt the better playmaker and teammate.

Give me the playmaker.
oh please

late-prime kobe was dropping gamewinners on peak wade's ass like it was nothing.

08 kobe>09 d wade all day