If Anfernee Hardaway never got hurt?

[TAZORAC]

He would have been the greatest PG of all time. Hardaway was a 6'5 6'6 PG with a deadly jump shot.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/penny_hardaway_bj_armstrong.jpg

[305Baller]

He would have been the greatest PG of all time. Hardaway was a 6'5 6'6 PG with a deadly jump shot.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/penny_hardaway_bj_armstrong.jpg

:facepalm

[rodman91]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/popcorn_2.gif

[NumberSix]

Goat

[Kobe 4 The Win]

If my Aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Magic = GOAT

[Rake2204]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/popcorn_2.gif
Ha.

[Whoah10115]

Penny is 6'7.


And he would made a legit push at top 5 all-time.

[bizil]

U r talking a first ballot HOFer and a top 5 GOAT caliber PG or SG. Even though Penny was a great player at PG, many like him better as a SG. He could have focused more on scoring while getting anywhere from 7-8 dimes a game. But Penny would have been a beast at either guard position. And even had enough size to play SF. It's a shame because Penny and Hill were in line to battle the guys like Kobe, Wade, TMac, and Lebron for perimeter supremacy. They are a little older and it would have been interesting to see them battler the younger guys.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://urbanreply.com/images/smilies/14l507b.png

[bizil]

Magic is a tough nut to crack at PG. It's basically the same situation with MJ at the SG. Gotta realize as big as Penny was, he was the size of a typcial swingman. But he was skilled enough to play point. Magic was the size of many power forwards. And Magic loved forcing his will and playing in the post. Even if u switched your SF on him, Magic usually still had the size advantage at 6'9 225-230 pounds.

[JohnnySic]

If he never got hurt his star would have faded when people realized that he wasn't as good as advertised. Iverson was abusing him by '96/'97 and the other young stars on the horizon (Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce, Carter, etc) would have done so as well.

Penny is the most overrated player I've seen in my lifetime. He was not even as good as Grant Hill, and no one seems to be putting Hill into that upper echelon of superstars, not even at his best.

He got injured at just the right time, enhancing his legacy. Call it the Kurt Cobain effect.

[pauk]

He would been the Lebron/Wade before Lebron/Wade.... at best... hardly unlikely but anyways...

and oh...

1. Penny was actually 6'7"
2. Penny was actually SG/PG/SF... combo-guard / point-forward.... he ping ponged between those positions exactly like Lebron / Wade did... if Penny was a PG, then so was/is Lebron & Wade...

[Collie]

Penny was a very good scorer, but he wasn't a great passer. A good one, but not on the level of Chris Paul, Magic, Isiah. I always thought he would have made a better SG than a PG.

[chocolatethunder]

If he never got hurt his star would have faded when people realized that he wasn't as good as advertised. Iverson was abusing him by '96/'97 and the other young stars on the horizon (Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce, Carter, etc) would have done so as well.

Penny is the most overrated player I've seen in my lifetime. He was not even as good as Grant Hill, and no one seems to be putting Hill into that upper echelon of superstars, not even at his best.

He got injured at just the right time, enhancing his legacy. Call it the Kurt Cobain effect.
+100000000000000
If you saw him play and not just saw highlight reels you would realize that all this revisionist history is just bs. He was good but he has to be the most overrated player on this board.

[Rake2204]

He would been the Lebron/Wade before Lebron/Wade.... at best... hardly unlikely but anyways...

and oh...

1. Penny was actually 6'7"
2. Penny was actually SG/PG/SF... combo-guard / point-forward.... he ping ponged between those positions exactly like Lebron / Wade did... if Penny was a PG, then so was/is Lebron & Wade...
I may have to respectfully disagree with the statement, "If Penny was a PG then so was/is Lebron & Wade." Through his prime, Penny was primarily a point guard. As in, a lineup would typically look like: C-Shaquille O'Neal, PF-Horace Grant, SF-Dennis Scott/Donald Royal, SG-Nick Anderson, PG-Anfernee Hardaway. That's not to say he always started at point guard, but that was his primary position, where Wade and James would typically be referred to as primarily being a shooting guard and small forward, respectfully. There was no need to sign a Mo Williams, Boobie Gibson, or Mario Chalmers, because Penny was the point guard.



If he never got hurt his star would have faded when people realized that he wasn't as good as advertised. Iverson was abusing him by '96/'97 and the other young stars on the horizon (Kobe, T-Mac, Pierce, Carter, etc) would have done so as well.

Penny is the most overrated player I've seen in my lifetime. He was not even as good as Grant Hill, and no one seems to be putting Hill into that upper echelon of superstars, not even at his best.

He got injured at just the right time, enhancing his legacy. Call it the Kurt Cobain effect.
I'm with you in part, but maybe not in full. Surely, a thread with an original post suggesting Penny Hardaway may have been the best point guard of all-time isn't a great way to downplay the idea he's the most overrated player of our lifetime, but typically I don't believe most people follow that same train of thought.

With Penny, I think a lot of his lasting legacy has to do with his style and pop culture status. That's not to say he wasn't also a great player, but I think it's kind of like the Fab Five's notoriety. I'm an Ann Arbor guy so by default I loved the Fab Five, but I can agree their popularity and legacy is not directly correlated to their skill level and success. They were great, but perhaps not great enough to be remembered how they are based on their skill level alone. I think it's the same with Penny. His game was so smooth, with flashy passes and explosive facials. He was playing alongside the game's most marketable player at the time (Shaquille O'Neal) and they were running rough shot over the rest of the league. Then, Lil' Penny happened. There was a lot of hype, and it couldn't be said he wasn't good. He was still dropping 21 and 7 and for someone with that type of hype, those types of statistics don't exactly leave the door open for doubters and haters.

With all that said, I surely see where you're coming from, I just don't usually hear people making incredulous claims about what Hardaway could have been. I think a lot of us feel we were able to see the best of Penny. I suppose he could have continued to move onward and upward, but by his third full season, I feel as though his skills were established. I definitely agree with you regarding Grant Hill's skill in relation to Hardaway's though.

[Scholar]

Magic Johnson would still be the GOAT PG, even if Penny never got injured. I think Penny would have a tough case being ranked over John Stockton, too.

[Scholar]

He would have been the greatest PG of all time. Hardaway was a 6'5 6'6 PG with a deadly jump shot.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/penny_hardaway_bj_armstrong.jpg

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1468833_o.gif

[pauk]

I may have to respectfully disagree with the statement, "If Penny was a PG then so was/is Lebron & Wade." Through his prime, Penny was primarily a point guard. As in, a lineup would typically look like: C-Shaquille O'Neal, PF-Horace Grant, SF-Dennis Scott/Donald Royal, SG-Nick Anderson, PG-Anfernee Hardaway. That's not to say he always started at point guard, but that was his primary position, where Wade and James would typically be referred to as primarily being a shooting guard and small forward, respectfully. There was no need to sign a Mo Williams, Boobie Gibson, or Mario Chalmers, because Penny was the point guard.

Only 2 years did the Magic lineup look like that... even those 2 years would he often switch to SG...

Penny was a true combo-guard... who loved to break down point-guards in the post... He was something like a Tyreke Evans / Dwyane Wade / Rookie Lebron in his prime in terms of size, gamestyle and position/role...

My point is.......... PENNY HARDAWAY WAS MORE THAN JUST A POINT-GUARD.... he was not only a point-guard and he should also NOT be classified as one position, especially not point-guard.... a player is classified by the position he started the most... and in Pennys case it was Shooting-Guard........

Sorry but i hate to define such versatile players by one position.... such as Magic, Lebron, Penny, Pippen.... they were much more than just ONE position... especially Magic / Lebron, they used to ping-pong between 4 positions their entire career... hell even Center at times lol... offensively & defensively...

You say: "Magic was the greatest PG of all time"
I say: "Magic was the greatest point-forward of all time"

Magic could have been the best SG or SF or PF of all time.... thats how good he was...

[Bigsmoke]

Penny wasnt even ****ing with Gary Payton.

[Whoah10115]

Penny is overrated=shut up.



But he was definitely a PG who could fill in at the other two spots. He was not a combo guard. He played PG in high school, when he was the same height. The idea of turning him into a SG was one of the worst decisions ever. PG. And he would be aiming for top 5.

[Rake2204]

Only 2 years did the Magic lineup look like that... even those 2 years would he often switch to SG...

Penny was a true combo-guard... who loved to break down point-guards in the post... He was something like a Tyreke Evans / Dwyane Wade / Rookie Lebron in his prime in terms of size, gamestyle and position/role...

My point is.......... PENNY HARDAWAY WAS MORE THAN JUST A POINT-GUARD.... he was not only a point-guard and he should also NOT be classified as one position, especially not point-guard.... a player is classified by the position he started the most... and in Pennys case it was Shooting-Guard........

Sorry but i hate to define such versatile players by one position.... such as Magic, Lebron, Penny, Pippen.... they were much more than just ONE position... especially Magic / Lebron, they used to ping-pong between 4 positions their entire career... hell even Center at times lol... offensively & defensively...

You say: "Magic was the greatest PG of all time"
I say: "Magic was the greatest point-forward of all time"

Magic could have been the best SG or SF or PF of all time.... thats how good he was...
I see where you're coming from, where you don't want to limit a player by stating his position, but I'm a little different. If I hear someone's primary position was point guard, I don't automatically assume limitations and a lack of versatility. There's clearly always more to the story. Stating a player's position, to me, is just that, it's stating what position they most often played.

In my opinion, I thought Penny Hardaway was most dangerous during his years as Orlando's starting point guard. That doesn't mean I thought he merely distributed the ball well and had a low turnover count. I'm just saying I liked the idea of a guy like Hardaway handling the ball at all times and making the decisions, as opposed to playing off the ball by default.

[TAZORAC]

Most of you are buffons/nerds who don't know basketball anyway.

Hardaway is far better then Payton and Iverson.

[L.Kizzle]

Lil Penny > Anfernee Hardaway

[TAZORAC]

Magic Johnson would still be the GOAT PG, even if Penny never got injured. I think Penny would have a tough case being ranked over John Stockton, too.


Johnson was slow with no jump shot, put him on a sorry team and he wouldn't help much. He's the type of guy who looked good on a good team.

If Magic Johnson hadn't played in LOS ANGELES and instead played in Sarcmento or for the Clippers during his time of playing, nobody would be talking about him as being great. He's overrated just like Larry Bird.

Great players shine under any circumstances.

[Big#50]

Johnson was slow with no jump shot, put him on a sorry team and he wouldn't help much. He's the type of guy who looked good on a good team.

If Magic Johnson hadn't played in LOS ANGELES and instead played in Sarcmento or for the Clippers during his time of playing, nobody would be talking about him as being great. He's overrated just like Larry Bird.

Great players shine under any circumstances.
Never go full retard.

[Solid Snake]

Johnson was slow with no jump shot, put him on a sorry team and he wouldn't help much. He's the type of guy who looked good on a good team.

If Magic Johnson hadn't played in LOS ANGELES and instead played in Sarcmento or for the Clippers during his time of playing, nobody would be talking about him as being great. He's overrated just like Larry Bird.

Great players shine under any circumstances.

Wow. You've gotta be Chinese.

[O_City_Thunder]

Lil Penny > Anfernee Hardaway
http://allsportseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/penny_3-634x422.jpg

[Shade8780]

Most of you are buffons/nerds who don't know basketball anyway.

Hardaway is far better then Payton and Iverson.

And then he says this :facepalm


Johnson was slow with no jump shot, put him on a sorry team and he wouldn't help much. He's the type of guy who looked good on a good team.

If Magic Johnson hadn't played in LOS ANGELES and instead played in Sarcmento or for the Clippers during his time of playing, nobody would be talking about him as being great. He's overrated just like Larry Bird.

Great players shine under any circumstances.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[TAZORAC]

Never go full retard.

You've never laced them up, you just sit on your couch, drink bears and look up statistics and think you know the quality of a basketball player.

I played, coached and am currently a recruiter.

[miller-time]

http://allsportseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/penny_3-634x422.jpg

too much leg :(

[TAZORAC]

too much leg :(

isn't that how you wear your shorts?

[Calabis]

No he would not have been the greatest point guard in history.....but those calling him overrated never saw him really play, I remember Shaq being out at the beginning of the season, not sure if it was his 2nd or 3rd season, he was going bananas, putting up Lebron type numbers. Also his insane playoff series was him coming into his own...I'm on my phone, but if u look up that series it was pretty insane, believe he played a lot of two guard that series.....then came the injuries.

[miller-time]

isn't that how you wear your shorts?

not since 1991

[SmackOrH.A.K]

he had joe johnson like career stats. and i know stats don't tell the whole story but idk how someone who averaged 20pts and 6apg at age 25 could be the GOAT PG.

[JohnnySic]

Hardaway is far better then Payton and Iverson.
He was not better than AI. AI is arguably the best little man ever and top 25-30 all time in my book. Penny would not have approached that.

[JohnnySic]

he had joe johnson like career stats. and i know stats don't tell the whole story but idk how someone who averaged 20pts and 6apg at age 25 could be the GOAT PG.
Simple. He couldn't be, and he wasn't.

[guy]

He's overrated, and so is Grant Hill. They were great players, but they weren't as good as Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or even prime T-Mac like alot of people seem to think. I do think he never reached his peak statistically, although I don't think he would've ever been much better as a player then he was. I think at his peak he would've been something like 26/7/4 on 47%. His best season was 22/7/4 on 51%.

I see a similar thing possibly happening with Brandon Roy. In 10 years, people will be saying he would've been just as good as Kevin Durant.

[9512]

he wouldve been amongst the greatest players of his era...maybe not not kobe great...but he wouldnt be a mediocre player like some ppl say he is...

penny gave pippen fits on D...and thats a prime Pippen from the 90s...

[JohnnySic]

He's overrated, and so is Grant Hill. They were great players, but they weren't as good as Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or even prime T-Mac like alot of people seem to think.
The thing is, I dont see too many people overrating Grant Hill. Generally, he's properly rated, at about a Scottie Pippen-level.

Penny gets elevated above that. I've seen "all time great", "best pg ever", even "top-5 all time", assuming he never got injured. And Penny wasn't even as good as Hill.

[guy]

The thing is, I dont see too many people overrating Grant Hill. Generally, he's properly rated, at about a Scottie Pippen-level.

Penny gets elevated above that. I've seen "all time great", "best pg ever", even "top-5 all time", assuming he never got injured. And Penny wasn't even as good as Hill.

I've read plenty of people say Hill was basically Lebron before Lebron.

[plUto or bUst]

When you consider that Penny's career high is 42, then you would realize that he was not the explosive scorer many believed.

He was definitely not as good as Hill. Hill could do everything just a little better than Hardaway.

[get these NETS]

hill never got out of the first round..during his prime


just did it with suns 2-3 years ago


penny was the better player

grant doesn't have alpha male quality, great complementary player and teammate but penny was front line top tier player.....

[get these NETS]

When you consider that Penny's career high is 42, then you would realize that he was not the explosive scorer many believed.

He was definitely not as good as Hill. Hill could do everything just a little better than Hardaway.


first part makes no sense...pg is usually not top scorer on team...

[get these NETS]

Johnson was slow with no jump shot, put him on a sorry team and he wouldn't help much. He's the type of guy who looked good on a good team.

If Magic Johnson hadn't played in LOS ANGELES and instead played in Sarcmento or for the Clippers during his time of playing, nobody would be talking about him as being great. He's overrated just like Larry Bird.

Great players shine under any circumstances.

nahh.........

jason kidd who patterned much of his game after magic...even his uniform numbers have been tributes to magic

kidd took a loser franchise to finals twice


magic is a winner..and would have had success anywhere

[Calabis]

When you consider that Penny's career high is 42, then you would realize that he was not the explosive scorer many believed.

He was definitely not as good as Hill. Hill could do everything just a little better than Hardaway.

Wth, dude was a point guard, bet he probably never took more than 15 shots a game.
Also his playoff series at the two guard he put up back to back 40 point games, avg. like 30 points a game that series, the guy was still improving which was cut off by injury. It amazing how people act like he hit his peak

[TAZORAC]

he had joe johnson like career stats. and i know stats don't tell the whole story but idk how someone who averaged 20pts and 6apg at age 25 could be the GOAT PG.

Another stat GEEK who doesn't know the game. Hardaway played with a YOUNG SHAQUILLE O'NEAL so he wasn't a first option. 20 and 6 was great numbers for the Magic's style of play

[TAZORAC]

When you consider that Penny's career high is 42, then you would realize that he was not the explosive scorer many believed.

He was definitely not as good as Hill. Hill could do everything just a little better than Hardaway.

Grant Hill has never had a good jump shot, had it not been for Shaq, Hardaway could have averaged 30 a game easy. You don't have a clue what your talking about.

[Lebron23]

He's not even better than Prime Gary Payton and Prime Kevin Johnson.

[Lebron23]

Grant Hill has never had a good jump shot, had it not been for Shaq, Hardaway could have averaged 30 a game easy. You don't have a clue what your talking about.


Stop talking out of your @$$. Prime Hardaway was not an elite scorer. It's very difficult to average over 30 ppg in the NBA.

[PTB Fan]

Penny would have been among the top 15 players of all time at least IMO.

[Collie]

Another case of tragedy enhancing a player's legacy. Penny was one of my favorite players of the 90's, along with CWebb and LJ. Even then, he was considered one of the leagues best guards, but not a transcendent one.

[rodman91]

Hardaway & Hill's size & skill makes their potential seem bigger. But they weren't raw talents when they got injured. They could be little bit better that's all.

Both of them were what people consider "soft", they didn't have killer mentality,they were good at everything but not elite at anything (kinda drexler)

Hardaway was 25, Hill was 27 when they got injured. Guys like Jordan,Magic,Kobe,Iverson,Lebron was already in prime at that age.

[Soundwave]

Honestly I think I would take a healthy Penny Hardaway (note I said healthy) in the modern NBA over LeBron James.

I know people will say that's crazy, but I think with the modern rules he could put in 25 ppg quite easily (can't breathe on a wing player these days) and his passing ability ... I don't think people really realize how incredible his vision was.

There's no question in my mind outside of Magic, there's been no one over 6'4 with better vision than him in the game.

Literally some of the passes he made, I can't believe he didn't have eyes in the back of his head.

Plus he was much more willing to take "the big shot" down the stretch and even had a solid post game.