Your top 5 players in the league right now

[StateOfMind12]

Since we are heading close to the post-season with less than 15 games to go before it starts, what is your top 5 players in the league right now?

Mine would be this

1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dwight Howard
5. Derrick Rose

The 5th one is interchangeable with 4 players. Those 4 players are Rose, Westbrook, Love, CP3. I think all of them have a great case but when healthy I would have to say Rose is the best of the 4. If we were to simply rank it based upon this season though I would probably say Love is the 5th best.

[GOBB]

James, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Rose

[blablabla]

wade?:biggums:

[Clippersfan86]

Lebron
KD
Howard
CP3
Rose

[christian1923]

1. KD
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
4. Wade
5. Rose

[Scholar]

1. LeBron James: I'll be surprised if he doesn't win the MVP award.

2. Kevin Durant: Playing great basketball and proving that two score-first superstars can co-exist, even if Carmelo-Iverson made that idea seem silly.

3. Kobe Bryant: He's jacking up more shots than he should but in the end of the day, he's still got the mindset of a champion. "I don't give a shit. Pass me the ****in' ball." That quote from a week ago says it all.

4. Dwight Howard: Now that the whole 'where-is-D12-headed?' debacle has come to an end, we can finally see Dwight playing like he should've been the entire season. He's definitely a top 5 player in the league.

5. Steve Nash: Yes, Steve ****ing Nash. Why? Because he's 38 years old and putting up numbers that guys 15 years younger can't put up. He's still leading the league in assists. Sure, he is playing on a team that isn't very successful, but in the end of the day, Nash is dominating the PG department.


I wanted to put D-Rose on the list but he's been injured for far too long. As for DWade, you can argue he's in the top 5, but that's just my opinion. He's easily #6, though, and could be interchangeable with any of the guys on 4 & 5 on my list.

[Clutch]

1. Kevin Durant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. LeBron James
4. Dwight Howard
5. Kobe Bryant

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Durant, Lebron, Wade, Howard, Kobe

Rose and Westbrook just outside the top 5, although you can certainly argue one and/or both are in it.

[ralph_i_el]

1. Durant
2. LeBron
3. Kevin Love
4. Rose
5. CP3/howard

[Rnbizzle]

LBJ
KD
Kobe
Russ
Rose

realistically, this season.

[Heavincent]

1.) KD
2.) Lebron
3.) Dwight
4.) Kobe
5.) Westbrook

It's hard for me to put Rose in there considering how many games he has missed. He is a top 5 player in the league when healthy though.

[Mr. Jabbar]

1- KD
2- Lequit
3- Kobe
4- CP3
5- Howard
6- Rondo
7- Westbrick

[Clippersfan86]

Not sure if people are trolling or what but CP3 is an undisputed top 5. Better than Rose this year. 19, 9, 3.5, 2.5 and the most all around efficient scorer in NBA arguably. Not to mention he has the Clippers fighting for 3rd seed in the west. Best defensive PG right now too and most clutch player in the NBA this year.

Only players that match his impact on a team right now are Lebron, Dwight and MAYBE KD.

[Dwade305]

Lawl at Paul being the best defensive PG. You still wonder why people dont like you around here

[Clippersfan86]

Lawl at Paul being the best defensive PG. You still wonder why people dont like you around here

Tell me a more consistent defender at the PG spot? Rondo's and Westbrook's D has slipped this year. Rose sure as hell isn't playing better D. Reality is CP3 is an undisputed top 5 player. Ask NBA players and coaches. See what they think. People again naming bigCP scorers and ignoring impact (see Steve Nash and his huge impact while not being 25 ppg scorer).

[Clippersfan86]

Not sure how I always forget Wade . Probably because he plays with Lebron. New list..

Lebron
KD
Wade
CP3
Howard

CP3 is 3rd in PER. His impact is massive.

[GOBB]

Wow everyone being accused of trolling Clippersfan86. Does this guy think of himself too highly? I doubt anyone gave a crap about how he would feel if CP3 wasnt listed. I know I didnt. I had a hard time figuring out a 5th player bouncing back and forth with a couple guys. But never did it cross my mind to leave off CP3 to troll Clippersfan86. Gotta love this guy no?

Cant wait for him to create a thread next week claiming CP3 and underrated and not appreciated here. How people hate him. Yeah, this thread will be the support for such a thread. Book it.

[kileer7]

Kobe shouldn't be top 5 this year. He's been too inconsistent.

[Heavincent]

Not sure if people are trolling or what but CP3 is an undisputed top 5. Better than Rose this year. 19, 9, 3.5, 2.5 and the most all around efficient scorer in NBA arguably. Not to mention he has the Clippers fighting for 3rd seed in the west. Best defensive PG right now too and most clutch player in the NBA this year.

Only players that match his impact on a team right now are Lebron, Dwight and MAYBE KD.

I disagree with some of this, but truth be told, I actually forgot about CP3 for some reason. He is in my top 5 now that you mention it.

So it's more like:

1.) KD
2.) Lebron
3.) Dwight
4.) Kobe
5.) CP3

[Clippersfan86]

GOBB i'll make sure to bump your Sixers threads when the Clippers advance and Sixers get swept in first round. Still think Sixers are a better team lmao? If only this Clippers team had years to build chemistry with same core like Sixers.

[Heavincent]

Rondo's and Westbrook's D has slipped this year.

:oldlol: What is this based on? I feel like you're talking out of your ass right now.

[Clippersfan86]

:oldlol: What is this based on? I feel like you're talking out of your ass right now.

Ask Celtics fans. They agreed his D has become overrated and more inconsistent in another thread. As for Westbrook i've watched a bunch of Thunder games and his D is worse to me. Maybe because he's expending more on offense? CP3 being best defender is debatable but being most clutch and impactful PG in game not debatable.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

GOBB i'll make sure to bump your Sixers threads when the Clippers advance and Sixers get swept in first round. Still think Sixers are a better team lmao? If only this Clippers team had years to build chemistry with same core like Sixers.

CP3 is definitely in the conversation, but Russ is playing awesome basketball right now. As for Rose? When healthy he's a better player than Paul; Paul is the better PG.

Just my opinion though.

[GOBB]

GOBB i'll make sure to bump your Sixers threads when the Clippers advance and Sixers get swept in first round. Still think Sixers are a better team lmao? If only this Clippers team had years to build chemistry with same core like Sixers.

If Sixers face Miami? A chance of them getting swept is highly possible. But I wouldnt bet on it. 4-1 is much more a likely scenerio than Sixers not being able to pull a game out. Sixers didnt get swept last playoffs. Any other team Sixers could face? They wouldnt get swept. Chicago, Boston, NY, Atlanta, Orlando, Indiana.

I can see your posts now if Clippers get ousted in the first rd....

"That was April 3rd. Things changed since then."

Similar saying to when the Clippers went from an elite team/legitimate title contender to not. Dont you know GOBB always has the last laugh here? :pimp:

Sidenote: Sixers would beat the Clippers in a 7gm series.

[chazzy]

Tell me a more consistent defender at the PG spot? Rondo's and Westbrook's D has slipped this year. Rose sure as hell isn't playing better D. Reality is CP3 is an undisputed top 5 player. Ask NBA players and coaches. See what they think. People again naming bigCP scorers and ignoring impact (see Steve Nash and his huge impact while not being 25 ppg scorer).
He's not the best defensive pg on his team :lol

[Clippersfan86]

Different team now. Finally figured out how important defense is. They aren't a lock to advance but gotta like their chances more than Sixers.

[Clippersfan86]

He's not the best defensive pg on his team :lol

I knw not elaborating would bite me in ass. Few others like Avery Bradley, Bledsoe, Holiday are better. He's been the most consistent defender of these group of stars we are debating in top 5. My fault for putting it so black and white.

[GOBB]

Different team now. Finally figured out how important defense is. They aren't a lock to advance but gotta like their chances more than Sixers.

Something the Sixers do better than the Clippers. And wow they arent a lock to advance now? Tsk tsk, you were oh so confident a couple minutes ago with your...


GOBB i'll make sure to bump your Sixers threads when the Clippers advance and Sixers get swept in first round

Safe to say you dont believe much of what you say. Tsk tsk indeed :pimp:

[PTB Fan]

James
Wade
Paul
Durant
Bryant

HM:Love

[Clippersfan86]

CP3 is definitely in the conversation, but Russ is playing awesome basketball right now. As for Rose? When healthy he's a better player than Paul; Paul is the better PG.

Just my opinion though.

Westbrook is a top 3 PG this year. That being said... CP3 is the PG you'd want in the playoffs leading your team. Westbrook is a talented scorer I'll give him that. CP3 has no flaws as a PG. Can score whenever he wants, defends well, clutch, top 3 playmaker and passer. Possibly best basketball IQ and floor leadership.

Just like every year... Come playoff time to you'll see a lot of threads about CP3 being undisputed best PG. Playoffs is when he really shines. Doesn't he have 3rd best career playoff PER all time? Impressive..

[Clippersfan86]

Something the Sixers do better than the Clippers. And wow they arent a lock to advance now? Tsk tsk, you were oh so confident a couple minutes ago with your...



Safe to say you dont believe much of what you say. Tsk tsk indeed :pimp:

I believe they will advance. Btw Clippers have better defensive numbers than Sixers lately. On this current win streak they are the 2nd overall defense last I saw. Sixers cooling off going into the playoffs as Clippers heat up. You're in denial to think Sixers would be Clippers in a 7 game series lmao.

[dyna]

Top 5:
1) Lebron
2) Durant
3) Dwight
4) Rose
5) Kobe

This Year:
1) Lebron
2) Durant
3) Dwight
4) Paul
5) Love

[MMM]

1 LeBron but he has been slipping lately
2 Durant
3 Howard by default
4 Wade
5 Rose

[GOBB]

I believe they will advance. Btw Clippers have better defensive numbers than Sixers lately. On this current win streak they are the 2nd overall defense last I saw. Sixers cooling off going into the playoffs as Clippers heat up. You're in denial to think Sixers would be Clippers in a 7 game series lmao.

Who cares about this isolated streak? If that was the case Dragic since starting is better than Chris Paul. But you wouldnt agree with that so shut up? Sixers defense isnt cooling off, its as good as ever and still BETTER than the Clippers. You cant argue this. :confusedshrug:

Hardly in denial over Sixers beating Clippers in a 7gm series.

[ballinhun8]

Westbrook is a top 3 PG this year. That being said... CP3 is the PG you'd want in the playoffs leading your team. Westbrook is a talented scorer I'll give him that. CP3 has no flaws as a PG. Can score whenever he wants, defends well, clutch, top 3 playmaker and passer. Possibly best basketball IQ and floor leadership.

Just like every year... Come playoff time to you'll see a lot of threads about CP3 being undisputed best PG. Playoffs is when he really shines. Doesn't he have 3rd best career playoff PER all time? Impressive..



Wow talking out of your ass really defines you huh.


So your opinion is the end all be all for Paul's ranking?


Just like you said you would want Paul as your PG in the playoffs you could say the same for Rose. The guy who helped take the Bulls as a ROOK and dropped 36 and 11 in a rookie playoff debut. Then elevated his game agaisnt the Cavs. Then last year was a machine until cHeat stopped him.


No flaws? How bout shrinking when the team needs him the most. Not caring about every other game.

[Clippersfan86]

Who cares about this isolated streak? If that was the case Dragic since starting is better than Chris Paul. But you wouldnt agree with that so shut up? Sixers defense isnt cooling off, its as good as ever and still BETTER than the Clippers. You cant argue this. :confusedshrug:

Hardly in denial over Sixers beating Clippers in a 7gm series.

Sixers are a better defensive team. Was just throwing it our there Clippers have played ELITE defense last 2 weeks and it's improving rapidly. That's to go with a top 5 offense all year. As I aid you can't honestly believe Sixers would beat Clippers in a 7 game series. We all know how teams without superstars do in playoffs and we have 2.

[Rnbizzle]

Sixers are a better defensive team. Was just throwing it our there Clippers have played ELITE defense last 2 weeks and it's improving rapidly. That's to go with a top 5 offense all year. As I aid you can't honestly believe Sixers would beat Clippers in a 7 game series. We all know how teams without superstars do in playoffs and we have 2.
Blake is not a superstar. And CP3 is not a top 5 player.

[Clippersfan86]

Ballin CP3 shrinks in big games? Why does he have 3rd best playoff PER all time? Why is her regarded as the best PG every year in playoffs and most clutch player in game this year? Get out of here with that shit. Rose has missed half the season and his team hasn't even noticed.

[RRR3]

Rose stans ignoring rose chokes on free throws constantly.

[Clippersfan86]

Blake is not a superstar. And CP3 is not a top 5 player.

Blake is a superstar. His numbers prove that. He's considered the 2nd best PF already in year two od his career. At worst he's a star and a reliable 20 plus PPG scorer. How many teams have 2 of those? Just Heat and Thunder last I checked.

[Heavincent]

Rose stans ignoring rose chokes on free throws constantly.

Ironic coming from you.

[Clippersfan86]

How many teams have two 19 plus PPG scorers? Without looking up i'll guess 3. Thunder, Clippers and Heat. Lakers just outside of that bracket with Kobe and Bynum. Yet people say 3 of them are finals hopefuls and Clippers are first round exit. I can't wait for the playoffs.....

[Rnbizzle]

Blake is a superstar. His numbers prove that. He's considered the 2nd best PF already in year two od his career. At worst he's a star and a reliable 20 plus PPG scorer. How many teams have 2 of those? Just Heat and Thunder last I checked.
Pau or Bynum could easily be that with a frontcourt partner who has the offensive capability of a DeAndre Jordan.

Jennings/Ellis can both be 20 ppg scorers.

Deng can come close, while being much more capable defensive player.

Amar'e/Melo

Josh Smith/Joe Johnson

Pierce/Rondo/KG could all three be 20 ppg scorers if they wanted to.

I could probable find more teams. The point is, your team is not as special as you'd like to think.

[ballinhun8]

Ballin CP3 shrinks in big games? Why does he have 3rd best playoff PER all time? Why is her regarded as the best PG every year in playoffs and most clutch player in game this year? Get out of here with that shit. Rose has missed half the season and his team hasn't even noticed.



Don't use PER. It's not real to use. Who regards him? A couple fans on ISH? He plays one good game and people jumped on him, then his team lost and people didn't notice.




And who besides you calls him the most clutch player in the game??? One hail Mary shot against Philly made him that?



And i brought Rose up as a comparison as a playoff performer to Paul. Like he's the only one who ups his game in the postseason. Not with this season.

[ballinhun8]

Ironic coming from you.



Isn't he not a "fan" of the Heat? I thought he was just from st. Louis but didn't have a team yet he tries to make idiotic claims like is he knows what he's talking about.

[Clippersfan86]

So now you resort to hypothetical situations when I'm talking about facts? Only teams with duos as productive as Clippers duo are Heat, Thunder and Lakers. Yet you act like they arent superstars and are overrated. Most teams are lucky to have one... These teams have 2. No reason to be in denial... HCA first year together with condensed season, major injuries, brutal schedule and no training camp or practice to gel do talking for me.

It's impressive that a team can be throwb together so quickly will all that adversity and have a shot at a deeo playoff run. If that doesn't impress you're being a hater.

[Clippersfan86]

Ballin make a thread about who's been most clutch player in NBA this season. Despite trolls not liking me or his flops I bet he wins in a landslide. He has 6 game winning/clinching shots and tons of huge 4th quarters where he took over.

[RRR3]

Ballin make a thread about who's been most clutch player in NBA this season. Despite trolls not liking me or his flops I bet he wins in a landslide. He has 6 game winning/clinching shots and tons of huge 4th quarters where he took over.
He's butthurt cp3>rose:oldlol:

[alenleomessi]

Rose missed too many games, and isnt top 5 anyway, Kobe is inefficient chucker, Love is putting pretty much empty stats and gets killed on D... so its:

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Paul

5th is arguable, but i'll give it to Wade, he still got it.

Playoff time Dirk is right there too

[ballinhun8]

He's butthurt cp3>rose:oldlol:


Har har har. And you're butthurt no one cares for your opinion.



And what would be the point of most clutch player in the league thread?? It's been done a million times here and somehow ends up a Bryant and James thread. Don't you know this board?

[Legends66NBA7]

cp3>rose

Not when they played each other.

[Rnbizzle]

So now you resort to hypothetical situations when I'm talking about facts? Only teams with duos as productive as Clippers duo are Heat, Thunder and Lakers. Yet you act like they arent superstars and are overrated. Most teams are lucky to have one... These teams have 2. No reason to be in denial... HCA first year together with condensed season, major injuries, brutal schedule and no training camp or practice to gel do talking for me.

It's impressive that a team can be throwb together so quickly will all that adversity and have a shot at a deeo playoff run. If that doesn't impress you're being a hater.

I don't know if this is directed right at me, but I'm gonna pretend it is, because I think more (reasonable) posters here will probable feel the same way.

Actually I'm far from a hater, I like the Clippers and enjoy watching their games. Maybe you're just overrating them? Everybody here feels that way, maybe there's some truth to it. I can't really be mad at it anyways, because I probable overestimate my Bulls as well..

Blake is a 'star' PF, guys like Aldridge, Amar'e, Blake, Pau and even Love are not superstars in my book. Love is definitely close right now though.

CP3 is probable the third best PG (behind Rose and Westbrook imo) in the league right now, and one of the best players overall to have on your side in the clutch.

Your team has improved greatly this year and pretty much ever since Blake got drafted, I applaud that and I'm happy for you.

I think in order to be successful in the postseason, you'll need more time, the development of DeAndre Jordan is crucial and so is Blake's. Depth is getting better.. I also think you need a better coach.

Would you consider me a hater?

[Clippersfan86]

No I think saying they need more time to be a favorite is fair. That being said I don't like people acting like this team is an overrated fluke with no shot. The Clips are a very good team even now.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Westbrook is a top 3 PG this year. That being said... CP3 is the PG you'd want in the playoffs leading your team. Westbrook is a talented scorer I'll give him that. CP3 has no flaws as a PG. Can score whenever he wants, defends well, clutch, top 3 playmaker and passer. Possibly best basketball IQ and floor leadership.

Just like every year... Come playoff time to you'll see a lot of threads about CP3 being undisputed best PG. Playoffs is when he really shines. Doesn't he have 3rd best career playoff PER all time? Impressive..

Yeah, Westbrook is playing like an MVP candidate (I value scoring heavily, and IMO he's been nearly as important as Durant to his teams success). Dude is balling out of his mind.

Don't get it twisted, Chris Paul is running my teams offense 10/10. No question he's the best PG in the game.

[iDefend5]

Har har har. And you're butthurt no one cares for your opinion.



And what would be the point of most clutch player in the league thread?? It's been done a million times here and somehow ends up a Bryant and James thread. Don't you know this board?
He has about 30 posts per day so it would be pretty sad if he didn't.

[BGriffin's Dad]

in no order... lebron, kobe, griffin, cp3, durant

[LoneyROY7]

in no order... lebron, kobe, griffin, cp3, durant

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:coleman:

[chazzy]

in no order... lebron, kobe, griffin, cp3, durant
Not even top 10 lol

[yobore]

Don't use PER. It's not real to use. Who regards him? A couple fans on ISH? He plays one good game and people jumped on him, then his team lost and people didn't notice.

Paul has the second highest on/off, the highest RAPM, highest Wins Produced, 3rd in PER, 3rd in 2 year adj. +/-, 2nd in simple rating.

I will explain to you why people don't consider him a top 5 player in the league:

He is on a team with a mediocre record. But that record has nothing to do with him, in fact with him on the floor they are the best team in point differential per 100 possessions at 9.16, nipping the Bulls at 9.09. So why is their record so bad? While he is on the bench they are only better than Charlotte at -10. So people look at the record and think he's playing poorly. Meanwhile another PG who is commonly compared to him has worse stats across the board and a bench that dominates, making his record extremley good

any questions?

[WockaVodka]

Ask Celtics fans. They agreed his D has become overrated and more inconsistent in another thread. As for Westbrook i've watched a bunch of Thunder games and his D is worse to me. Maybe because he's expending more on offense? CP3 being best defender is debatable but being most clutch and impactful PG in game not debatable.
Westbrook's clutch stats are better than CP3 so you are right it isn't debatable but the answer isn't for that question isn't CP3 either.

[LABean]

In no order,
Kobe
LeBron
Durant
Dwight/Love/Deron

[Droid101]

Rose can't be in this discussion, he's missed almost half the season.

[LABean]

Rose can't be in this discussion, he's missed almost half the season.
He ain't. I'm the biggest Rose fan on here and I don't even have him as a top 5 player.

[williams012]

Lebron
Durant
Howard
Kobe
CP3

[Clippersfan86]

Westbrook's clutch stats are better than CP3 so you are right it isn't debatable but the answer isn't for that question isn't CP3 either.

Watch the games bud. I'll tell you right now Westbrook isn't worthy to hold CP3's nuts when it comes to clutch. Sure he's pretty clutch... but CP3 is the hands down best closer this year in the NBA. CP3 has 6 shots that sealed a game in the last 30 seconds or won a game. Then look at his 4th quarter scoring where he pretty much does all of his scoring. Can't tell you how many games he goes into the 4th with 4-6 points... and finishes with 20-25. It happens all the time.

CP3 only trails Dirk and by 1 at that when it comes to game clinching/winning shots in the last two seasons. They showed it on NBA TV yesterday night.

Read this. This was before this weeks Player of the Week award and multiple clutch performances.

http://www.nba.com/clippers/features/chris-paul-at-best-during-winning-time-patten-120320.html

"Paul leads the NBA with 57 points scored when his team is trailing by five points or fewer in the final 5:00. And he’s made game-winning plays to beat Philadelphia, Detroit, and Houston twice." Again before the recent clutch performances he's put up, including game winner vs Blazers other day.

[Clippersfan86]

Paul has the second highest on/off, the highest RAPM, highest Wins Produced, 3rd in PER, 3rd in 2 year adj. +/-, 2nd in simple rating.

I will explain to you why people don't consider him a top 5 player in the league:

He is on a team with a mediocre record. But that record has nothing to do with him, in fact with him on the floor they are the best team in point differential per 100 possessions at 9.16, nipping the Bulls at 9.09. So why is their record so bad? While he is on the bench they are only better than Charlotte at -10. So people look at the record and think he's playing poorly. Meanwhile another PG who is commonly compared to him has worse stats across the board and a bench that dominates, making his record extremley good

any questions?

Clippers are 11 games over .500. Not by any stretch mediocre record considering the major injuries to key players, 9 new players, no time to build chemistry with a new core etc. Especially when you consider their brutal schedule. I agree on CP3's value as a whole though as you showed.

[maybeshewill13]

If you mean judging solely from this year's play:

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Love
4. Westbrook
5. (Parker/CP3/Dwight/Wade)

[OKCThunderUP]

1. Lebron
2. KD
3. Wade
4. Dwight
5. Love

[pauk]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
the rest i cant decide imo, not in order... but its Dwight/Kobe/Wade

[Vertical-24]

1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Derrick Rose (when healthy!)

Honorary mentions: Dwyane Wade, Russell Westbrook, CP3, Kevin Love, Rajon Rondo

[qrich]

1A] LeBron James
1B] Kevin Durant
3] Kobe Bryant
4] Chris Paul
5] Dwight Howard

Rose has been injured far too often or else the rankings would greatly change. Kobe might be having one of his least efficient seasons, but he's still showing up more often than not in the clutch. Chris Paul is having a wonderful season leading the Clips to uncharted territory. I mean, check out where he ranks:

Assists Per Game: #3 behind Nash and Rondo. Tied with Calderon
Assists Per Turnover: #1 by a good margin over Calderon
Steals Per Game: #2 behind Mike Conley.
Steals Per Turnover: #6 behind Leonard, C. Singleton, T. Young, Matthews, C. Brewer
Double-Doubles Among Guards: #3 behind Nash (by 5, same amount of games), Deron by 1 in 1 less game.
#15 in Points-Per-Game despite taking 14.4 shots per game (#28).

[Miserio]

Tell me a more consistent defender at the PG spot? Rondo's and Westbrook's D has slipped this year. Rose sure as hell isn't playing better D. Reality is CP3 is an undisputed top 5 player. Ask NBA players and coaches. See what they think. People again naming bigCP scorers and ignoring impact (see Steve Nash and his huge impact while not being 25 ppg scorer).
Rondo is better, I'm sorry.

[LamarOdom]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
the rest i cant decide imo, not in order... but its Dwight/Kobe/Wade

WOW so this means Pauk thinks Kobe is top 5.

[JohnRuck]

This year alone....

1.Lebron James
2.Kevin Durant
3.Kevin Love
4.Dwight Howard
5.Kobe/Westbrook/Wade/Josh Smith

[Fudge]

1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Kobe Bryant
5. a) Chris Paul
5. b) Kevin Love

With Wade, Westbrook, Rose, etc right behind them.

[Dwyane Rose]

1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Russell Westbrook (yeah you read that correctly)
6. Jeremy Lin

[christian1923]

Lol at anyone ranking westbrook over rose :coleman:

[mjokc]

Lawl at Paul being the best defensive PG. You still wonder why people dont like you around here

Clippersfan is a huge troll, but he's not too far off base, CP3 has been elite in every aspect of the game lately. Much better than rose. CP3 rounds off my top 5.

Lebron
KD
Howard
Bryant
CP3

[mjokc]

Lol at anyone ranking westbrook over rose :coleman:

Tell me why Rose has been better than RW this season? Dude isn't even durable enough to play a 66 game season. Rose is athletic and nothing else, as soon as the injuries start to pile up, he will be a has been. I will admit that RW also is mainly athletic and will decline rapidly as he loses athleticism. However RW is durable, rose is made of glass.

[LamarOdom]

Tell me why Rose has been better than RW this season? Dude isn't even durable enough to play a 66 game season. Rose is athletic and nothing else, as soon as the injuries start to pile up, he will be a has been. I will admit that RW also is mainly athletic and will decline rapidly as he loses athleticism. However RW is durable, rose is made of glass.

He missed a total of 6 games in his first three season this is the first time he has an serious injury.

[RRR3]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Chris Paul



BTW, Westbrook has surpassed Rose IMO. Rose has to prove he's better if and when he returns. I'm not seeing how Rose is better, though.

[TheNaturalWR]

Kobe over Wade or even in the top 5 is downright ridiculous and straight up retarded. At the beginning of the season? Sure. Now? After all those 5-20 games? C'mon. He's the most INEFFICIENT player this season and yet he's in the top 5? He has a case for being more cancerous than valuable to his team yet he's better than Wade? GTFO. :facepalm

[RRR3]

Kobe over Wade or even in the top 5 is downright ridiculous and straight up retarded. At the beginning of the season? Sure. Now? After all those 5-20 games? C'mon. He's the most INEFFICIENT player this season and yet he's in the top 5? He has a case for being more cancerous than valuable to his team yet he's better than Wade? GTFO. :facepalm
Kobe stan: 5 rangz bee-yotch
Logical ISH poster: He won 5 rings this season?
Kobe stan: U mad?
Logical poster: :facepalm
Kobe stan: 81 points, Mamba, cold blooded, killah instink, assassin, clutch gene. Haters gon' hate

[Dwyane Rose]

Lol at anyone ranking westbrook over rose :coleman:

The title says right now. Rose has been injured for weeks. He's still injured. So obviously as of right now Westbrook > Rose

[Heavincent]

Kobe over Wade or even in the top 5 is downright ridiculous and straight up retarded. At the beginning of the season? Sure. Now? After all those 5-20 games? C'mon. He's the most INEFFICIENT player this season and yet he's in the top 5? He has a case for being more cancerous than valuable to his team yet he's better than Wade? GTFO. :facepalm

lol at this Wade stan. You're bitter because an old, out of his prime Kobe is still better than Wade :lol

Anyway, Kobe being top 5 at this point of his career is amazing considering how old he is and how much mileage he has on his legs. Especially for a volume shooter.

[KingBeasley08]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Wade
5. Paul

[LABean]

Kobe stan: 5 rangz bee-yotch
Logical ISH poster: He won 5 rings this season?
Kobe stan: U mad?
Logical poster: :facepalm
Kobe stan: 81 points, Mamba, cold blooded, killah instink, assassin, clutch gene. Haters gon' hate
Yo, my *****, put Kobe on your top 5 now. :coleman:

[KingBeasley08]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Chris Paul



BTW, Westbrook has surpassed Rose IMO. Rose has to prove he's better if and when he returns. I'm not seeing how Rose is better, though.
damn just saw this post. great minds think alike :cheers:

[RRR3]

Yo, my *****, put Kobe on your top 5 now. :coleman:
He doesn't deserve it. Sorry dude. Be satisfied with the fact that Kobe was top 5 for a long time, that should be enough for you. He can't play forever.

[Heavincent]

He doesn't deserve it.

Maybe according to you.

[RRR3]

Maybe according to you.
What on earth does he grampa Kobe do that makes him better than Wade? Not a damn thing, the only "argument" you kids have is stuff he did in the PAST.

[LABean]

You guys forget so easily. :no:

This season Kobe at times was the favorite for the MVP.
When was Wade ever in that discussion?
Wade's team has been playing very well without him.

Don't know why you guys rank Wade so high. :facepalm
All he does is try to draw fouls.

[Heavincent]

What on earth does he grampa Kobe do that makes him better than Wade? Not a damn thing, the only "argument" you kids have is stuff he did in the PAST.

Most people have Kobe over Wade actually. Not just Kobe fans.

You're almost as bitter as Wade. Still being overshadowed by Kobe :oldlol:

And quit acting like your opinion is fact. Trust me, this is extremely subjective.

[RRR3]

Most people have Kobe over Wade actually. Not just fans.

You're almost as bitter as Wade. Still being overshadowed by Kobe :oldlol:
How surprising, no argument, just try to deflect by using the classic argument ad populum. Typical delusional Kobe stan:oldlol:

[TheNaturalWR]

lol at this Wade stan. You're bitter because an old, out of his prime Kobe is still better than Wade :lol

Anyway, Kobe being top 5 at this point of his career is amazing considering how old he is and how much mileage he has on his legs. Especially for a volume shooter.

You're absolutely right. Being top 5 at 33 is amazing but too bad he isn't. :facepalm "Volume shooter" is putting it nicely. Dude's a straight up chucker no doubt about it. He shoots his team out of games and yet he's a top 5 player you learn something new everyday.

[Heavincent]

How surprising, no argument, just try to deflect by using the classic argument ad populum. Typical delusional Kobe stan:oldlol:

You didn't present an argument either genius :oldlol: Just "My shitty opinion is fact and bla bla"

Typical delusional Heat homer :oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

Wade's easily better than Kobe. More efficient scorer, better all-around player, more clutch, better defender, and helping his team win more games

[StateOfMind12]

People are still attempting to argue Kobe as a better player over Wade? Aside from scoring more points under much worse efficiency, there isn't a single thing that Kobe Bryant does better than Dwyane Wade these days.

[LABean]

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg564/ElevenDopes/553186010.gif
Meanwhile, Heat clinch a playoff spot without Wade while going 9-1 during his absences. :facepalm

[OKCThunderUP]

You guys forget so easily. :no:

This season Kobe at times was the favorite for the MVP.
When was Wade ever in that discussion?
Wade's team has been playing very well without him.

Don't know why you guys rank Wade so high. :facepalm
All he does is try to draw fouls.

Kobe hasn't been the favorite for MVP once this season. Not once.

[NumberSix]

You guys forget so easily. :no:

This season Kobe at times was the favorite for the MVP.
When was Wade ever in that discussion?
Wade's team has been playing very well without him.

Don't know why you guys rank Wade so high. :facepalm
All he does is try to draw fouls.
This dude be sip sip sippay

[LABean]

No use arguing with a Durant stan and a LeBron stan, respectively. :cheers:

[Jotaro Durant]

No use arguing with a Durant stan and a LeBron stan, respectively. :cheers:
look at u nikka:roll:

durant
james
howard
love
wade

[Kobe 4 The Win]

1. Kobe
2. Kobe
3. Kobe
4. Kobe
5. Lebron

[OKCThunderUP]

No use arguing with a Durant stan and a LeBron stan, respectively. :cheers:

Find me an NBA or ESPN MVP Ladder update from this year that has Kobe at #1 and I'll leave ISH forever.

[Maniak]

No order.

LeBron
Durant
Howard
Westbrook
Wade

Rose is better than westbrook but like others have said he has been injured too long to be put in here.

[NumberSix]

No order.

LeBron
Durant
Howard
Westbrook
Wade

Rose is better than westbrook but like others have said he has been injured too long to be put in here.
Doubt it.

[D-Wade316]

Paul has the second highest on/off, the highest RAPM, highest Wins Produced, 3rd in PER, 3rd in 2 year adj. +/-, 2nd in simple rating.

I will explain to you why people don't consider him a top 5 player in the league:

He is on a team with a mediocre record. But that record has nothing to do with him, in fact with him on the floor they are the best team in point differential per 100 possessions at 9.16, nipping the Bulls at 9.09. So why is their record so bad? While he is on the bench they are only better than Charlotte at -10. So people look at the record and think he's playing poorly. Meanwhile another PG who is commonly compared to him has worse stats across the board and a bench that dominates, making his record extremley good

any questions?
:applause:

[TheCorporation]

Lebron
KD
Howard
CP3
Rose

I like this list

[LABean]

lol Wade. :roll: :roll:

[StateOfMind12]

Mine would be this

1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dwight Howard
5. Derrick Rose

I want to make a slight change in my 3-5 spot for my top 5 players right now from about 1-2 weeks ago.

1-2 is clearly Kevin Durant and LeBron James, whoever you believe is better just a matter of preference and there is no right or wrong answer between them.

3. Chris Paul
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Russell Westbrook

Rose would be in the 3-5 if he were healthy this season but he hasn't been. I can't give Rose special treatment just because I'm a Bulls fan. I punished Howard for the same reason plus his distractions off the court with his drama, trade rumors, and all that other b.s.

Both Paul and Wade have been inconsistent this season but I would say Wade more so and not to mention Wade has missed far more games than CP3 has. Durability is part of the game and durability is the reason why Rose isn't even in the top 3-5.

[Nashty]

In no order:

James
Durant
Howard
Paul
Westbrook

[Ikill]

top 5 players
Howard
wade
Durant
LeBron
Paul

top 5 for this season
Durant
LeBron
Howard
Paul
Westbrook

3-5 can be anything

[mjokc]

Geez, i'm an OKC homer but putting Westbrook ahead of Rose is ridiculous. Just because Rose has been injured doesn't mean he isn't a top five player right now.

[Odinn]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant

The rest is pretty debatable between Kobe, Rose, Howard, Wade and Westbrook.

[demons2005]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant

The rest is pretty debatable between Kobe, Rose, Howard, Wade and Westbrook.
Rose is definitely in that top tier I'd say LBJ/ROSE then Kobe then Durant then Wade but if we're talking about closing the game LBJ falls out of the top 5

[demons2005]

Doubt it.
well let's see one is an MVP with the best record when he's playing, the other is playing with an MVP candidate and hasnt even got the best record.

[Nash]

Top 5 players alphabetically so people don't cry.

Bryant
Durant
Howard
James
Wade

[Bigsmoke]

LBJ
Durant
CP3
Wade
Dwight

[Heavincent]

Top 5 players for the playoffs. Note: This is a list of the 5 best players that I think will put on the best performances during the playoffs, not a list of who was the best during the regular season.

1.) Kevin Durant
2.) Derrick Rose
3.) Kobe Bryant
4.) Russell Westbrook
5.) Carmelo Anthony/Rondo

I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for that list, but I don't care.

[KingBeasley08]

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwight Howard
4. Chris Paul
5. Russell Westbrook

[D-Wade316]

LBJ
Durant
CP3
Wade
Dwight
:cheers:

[imdaman99]

Top 5 players for the playoffs. Note: This is a list of the 5 best players that I think will put on the best performances during the playoffs, not a list of who was the best during the regular season.

1.) Kevin Durant
2.) Derrick Rose
3.) Kobe Bryant
4.) Russell Westbrook
5.) Carmelo Anthony

I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for that list, but I don't care.
love the list... but not if the knicks play the bulls in 1st round.

[Hittin_Shots]

Top 5 players for the playoffs. Note: This is a list of the 5 best players that I think will put on the best performances during the playoffs, not a list of who was the best during the regular season.

1.) Kevin Durant
2.) Derrick Rose
3.) Kobe Bryant
4.) Russell Westbrook
5.) Carmelo Anthony

I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for that list, but I don't care.

dont see rondo goin beast mode in th PO's?

[yanix]

1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Kevin Love
4. Chris Paul
5. Kobe Bryant

[pauk]

Top 5 players for the playoffs. Note: This is a list of the 5 best players that I think will put on the best performances during the playoffs, not a list of who was the best during the regular season.

1.) Kevin Durant
2.) Derrick Rose
3.) Kobe Bryant
4.) Russell Westbrook
5.) Carmelo Anthony

I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for that list, but I don't care.

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i477/umad91/gif%20reactions/blackbertstare.gif

[chairman]

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i477/umad91/gif%20reactions/blackbertstare.gif
:applause: Looks like the expression you're making on your Facebook page

[novocaine]

1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Kevin Love
5. Russel Westbrook

[madmax]

As of today:

1. Lebron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Kevin Durant
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Kevin Love

[pauk]

:applause: Looks like the expression you're making on your Facebook page

Huh?

[28renyoy]

1. Durant
2. James
3. Paul
4. Wade
5. Howard

I'm not even sure this is arguably tbh

[maybeshewill13]

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Dwight
4. Love
5. Westbrook

Honorable mentions to Wade and CP3.

[alenleomessi]

How is Love top 5 are you guys ****ing retarded?

[novocaine]

How is Love top 5 are you guys ****ing retarded?

hows he not in your top 5 ? you ****ing retarded ?

[CardiacKemba]

1. Durant
2. James
3. Paul
4. Wade
5. Howard

I'm not even sure this is arguably tbh

Everything is arguable when it comes to something so subjective as ranking players. Pure arrogance to state otherwise.

Anyway, as of now I have:

1. James/Durant
2. Durant/James
3. Paul
4. Howard
5. Wade/Westbrook

[PyrrhusX]

1. James/Durant Interchangable for obvious reasons.
2. Durant/James
3. Paul
4. Howard
5. Wade/Westbrook


Super solid list :cheers:
Love not far back at 6-7.

[swi7ch]

Chris Paul (Nash if younger)
Wade (Kobe if younger)
Durant (#1 player in the world today)
LBJ (no good PF in the league anymore [Duncan is old] so he goes here by default)
D12 (wins by default bec. there are few "true" centers in the league)

[Jasi]

Right now as in Last month or so?

KD
Melo
CP3
LeBrondo
Auard

[Scholar]

Durant, LBJ, Kobe, Howard & Rondo

[Rnbizzle]

When healthy:

Rose, Wade, Melo, Lebron and Kobe?

Wade might be replaced by Westbrook, and Dwight, CP3 and Rondo are just outside of the top 5. Interchangeable with Rose and Melo mostly but when fully healthy I'd take those two over the others.

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe
Lawdbe
Godbe
Coachbe
Mamba

[Heavincent]

dont see rondo goin beast mode in th PO's?

Hmm, good point. I forgot about Rondo for some reason. Edited my list.

[pauk]

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Love (why not? just look at how he performed/produced this season) / Kevin Durant / Kobe Bryant.. not really sure...

and the rest follows with Westbrook/Rose/Wade etc...

[Jasi]

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Love (why not? just look at how he performed/produced this season)
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Westbrook/Rose/Wade etc...

You love players that will disappear come playoff time :D

[Da Doc04]

durant/bron
howard
kobe
rose

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard

The top two are not debatable, these players are superior to all at their respective positions. Here is where it is tough.

3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Chris Paul/Kevin Durant

LOL @ noone listing Dirk "Horsecock" Nowitzki. This guy is a beast and I'd take him for a series over anyone not named LeBron/Dwight. Best go to scorer in the league in the half court, most clutch player, rapes in the playoffs. He's at that age where you coast the regular season and there's nothing wrong with that. He earned it. But LOL @ people rather going to war with Kevin Love and Kevin Durant over this NBA Finals MVP.

[StateOfMind12]

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard

The top two are not debatable
It's actually quite clear that Durant and LBJ are the #1 and #2 players in the league. Whoever you have at #1 is completely a matter of preference and you can really go either way. It makes no sense having either one outside of the top 2. There is a reason why everybody has LeBron and Durant in their top 2 in this thread.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

It's actually quite clear that Durant and LBJ are the #1 and #2 players in the league. Whoever you have at #1 is completely a matter of preference and you can really go either way. It makes no sense having either one outside of the top 2. There is a reason why everybody has LeBron and Durant in their top 2 in this thread.

Yeah because the majority are mindless apes that fall into the MVP race bullshit. Let's be real Durant is just a really good scorer and doesn't effect the game anywhere near as much as guys like Dwight/LeBron. These guys anchor defenses and score 20+ PPG(27 PPG in LeBrons case who is quite comparable in scoring to Durant which is Durants one advantage).

Then you want to go offensively? Does Durant even post up LOL. You take LeBron who shoots 53% in the field or Dwight Howard the most unstoppable low post player in the leauge. Then LeBron is the best playmaker ever among non-point guards and sets up countless looks for his teammates each and every game. These are guys that pull down their pants and leave their stamp on the game. Rough Durant up a bit with physical defense and his shitty post game/shaky handle get exposed.

Next

[StateOfMind12]

Let's be real Durant is just a really good scorer and doesn't effect the game anywhere near as much as guys like Dwight/LeBron.
What is this based on?

Durant has become an all-around player this season and not just a scorer. Durant has become a pretty good playmaker/passer and he has become a tremendous rebounder this season because he plays more PF this season and also because he doesn't leak out in transition as much anymore and goes for the defensive rebounds. Durant is leading his team in rebounding for a reason despite the fact that he plays with great rebounders such as Ibaka, Collison, Perkins, Mohammed, etc.


These guys anchor defenses and score 20+ PPG(27 PPG in LeBrons case who is quite comparable in scoring to Durant which is Durants one advantage).
Howard anchors a defense but LeBron does not. Plus, Howard has regressed this season anyways. The Magic were barely a top 10 ranked defensive team when Howard was playing for them. He just doesn't give as much effort on that end these days for whatever reason.

LeBron does not anchor a defense. The Heat were already an elite defensive team before he even arrived. The Heat were ranked 6th defensively in the '09-'10 season. They were ranked 5th in '10-'11 and they are ranked 4th this season, so while there is an improvement in the Heat defense, it is by a very little margin. It could also be due to the addition of Bosh, Battier, and other role players as well, not just LeBron.


Then you want to go offensively? Does Durant even post up LOL.
Actually he does, and he is a lot better at it most people realize. Durant was a pretty good post-player in College.


You take LeBron who shoots 53% in the field or Dwight Howard the most unstoppable low post player in the leauge
LeBron shoots a higher FG% than Durant but he shoots a lower TS% than Durant. Their eFG% are practically identical though. TS% is a better measure for scoring efficiency than FG%. Free throws, 3 pointers are also apart of scoring you know.

Howard is the most unstoppable low post player in the league? I would say Bynum is probably a better scorer than him especially since Howard doesn't even shoot 50% from the FT line anymore.


sets up countless looks for his teammates each and every game.
Durant does this too and he gets a lot of hockey assists from it.


These are guys that pull down their pants and leave their stamp on the game.
Durant leaves a stamp on the game as well. I'm not even arguing Durant vs. LeBron by the way because I think that is a toss up and just a matter of preference. I just think saying Howard is better than Durant is incredibly dumb though.

If you were to say Howard was better than Durant, it would and should be used for the very same reasons why one would argue that Howard is better than LeBron.

The same advantages Howard has over Durant is the same advantages Howard has over LeBron.

Let me guess, you think Howard is better than Durant because he shoots a higher FG% than Durant, rebounds more, impacts the defense more, etc. but isn't that also the same reasons why one would take Howard over LeBron?

The same argument used to explain why Howard is better than Durant is the same argument that can be used to explain why Howard is better than LeBron which is the contradiction of your argument.


Rough Durant up a bit with physical defense and his shitty post game/shaky handle get exposed.
This is based on what?

[JustinJDW]

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul

D-Rose has missed over a third of the season, so we shouldn't include him. Also anyone saying Westbrook is in the Top 5 needs to be slapped in the face.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

What is this based on?

Durant has become an all-around player this season and not just a scorer. Durant has become a pretty good playmaker/passer and he has become a tremendous rebounder this season because he plays more PF this season and also because he doesn't leak out in transition as much anymore and goes for the defensive rebounds. Durant is leading his team in rebounding for a reason despite the fact that he plays with great rebounders such as Ibaka, Collison, Perkins, Mohammed, etc.



What is their impact based on?

It's quite easy. Durant isn't in Howard or even LeBrons league defensively in terms of playmaking which is a HUGE part of the game. He is an average defender, but LeBron covers more ground than any other perimeter player and theres a reason Howard has like 4 DPOY in a row now or whatever it is.

Pretty good playmaker/passer? LeBron is worlds better, not even in the same ballpark.

Tremendous rebounder and plays PF? Durant is the worst rebounder of the three again and nearly all of his boards are on the defensive end because of being in the right place at the right time and not because he goes after it offensively which is where the true rebounders shine.
Total Rebounding Rate Stats
LeBron: 12.6%
Durant: 11.8%
Howard: 21.8%

Next


Howard anchors a defense but LeBron does not. Plus, Howard has regressed this season anyways. The Magic were barely a top 10 ranked defensive team when Howard was playing for them. He just doesn't give as much effort on that end these days for whatever reason.

LeBron does not anchor a defense. The Heat were already an elite defensive team before he even arrived. The Heat were ranked 6th defensively in the '09-'10 season. They were ranked 5th in '10-'11 and they are ranked 4th this season, so while there is an improvement in the Heat defense, it is by a very little margin. It could also be due to the addition of Bosh, Battier, and other role players as well, not just LeBron.

Howard has regressed this season? In what way? How is Howard this year any worse than last year? Here's how idiots like you and the masses think he is worst: His team sucks this year and all the trade drama surrounding the team. Bullshit like that that isn't about him individiually. Do the Magic have one defensive player other than Howard on that roster? LOL

The Heat have steadily been improving as a defense with LeBron and this is mind you with NO DEFENSIVE SHOT BLOCKER. Joel Anthony plays like 20 MPG and is the same height as LeBron. Nobody on the Heat defense can react as quickly as LeBron and LeBron has guarded everyone from Derrick Rose to Pau Gasol this year(successfully mind you).

Also before LeBron the team had Jermaine O'Neal playing big minutes who was still a good player and at that point of his career a tremendous defensive shot blocker. He was awesome for the Heat during that regular season. The Heat with LeBron have never had a big even close to making an impact like O'Neal.


Actually he does, and he is a lot better at it most people realize. Durant was a pretty good post-player in College.

Yeah in college against undersized athletes LOL

In the NBA a Durant post up consists of a turnaround jumpshot that is usuually a low percentage shot, nothing more.


LeBron shoots a higher FG% than Durant but he shoots a lower TS% than Durant. Their eFG% are practically identical though. TS% is a better measure for scoring efficiency than FG%. Free throws, 3 pointers are also apart of scoring you know.

Howard is the most unstoppable low post player in the league? I would say Bynum is probably a better scorer than him especially since Howard doesn't even shoot 50% from the FT line anymore.

Yes because we've already acknowledged Durants ONLY advantage is shooting over LeBron. Factor in anything that involves threes/free throws and there you go. FG% is their actual attempts from the field, not some bullshit formula. Maybe if Durants threes hurt his FG% he should be smart like LeBron and drive to the hoop for the easier points. :confusedshrug: No excuses.


Durant does this too and he gets a lot of hockey assists from it.

LeBron gets real assists AND hockey assists. Next


Durant leaves a stamp on the game as well. I'm not even arguing Durant vs. LeBron by the way because I think that is a toss up and just a matter of preference. I just think saying Howard is better than Durant is incredibly dumb though.

If you were to say Howard was better than Durant, it would and should be used for the very same reasons why one would argue that Howard is better than LeBron.

The same advantages Howard has over Durant is the same advantages Howard has over LeBron.

Let me guess, you think Howard is better than Durant because he shoots a higher FG% than Durant, rebounds more, impacts the defense more, etc. but isn't that also the same reasons why one would take Howard over LeBron?

The same argument used to explain why Howard is better than Durant is the same argument that can be used to explain why Howard is better than LeBron which is the contradiction of your argument.

How is it the same reasons? LeBron and Durant are completely different players with different skillsets/talent levels.

Sure the advantages Howard has over Durant are similar because of positions, but anyone that insists Durant is the same kind of impact player that LeBron is needs to wake the **** up LOL. Oh nice OKC avatar, that explains it. Continue with the ball fondling.

LeBron and Howard both dominate the defensive end while Durant although OK at that end doesn't even begin to tip the edge of the iceberg in terms of those two guys. Howard especially. Noone in the NBA is even close to his impact on that end. Then he is a 20 PPG scorer and most dominant low post scorer in the league? Next. For LeBron his scoring is more efficient, superior playmaking, and just abiliity to single handly win games that puts him over Howard. Durant isn't at LeBrons level.


This is based on what?

Durant getting owned in the playoffs each year. How about getting absolutely ass rammed by Ron Artest in a year nearly everyone considered Ron Artest done? Lets check the stats. 25 PPG on 35% shooting LOL. Then last year vs Dallas? 28 PPG on 42% shooting LOL. This guy is a volume shooter that relies on jumpshots and with his frail ass frame he is just going to get pushed around in the playoffs when the game becomes more physical.

[StateOfMind12]

Durant isn't in Howard or even LeBrons league defensively in terms of playmaking which is a HUGE part of the game. He is an average defender, but LeBron covers more ground than any other perimeter player and theres a reason Howard has like 4 DPOY in a row now or whatever it is.
Actually Durant is a pretty good defender, he is above average at least.

Durant isn't as good as Howard or Lebron defensively but LeBron isn't as good as Howard defensively either. Howard is in an entirely different tier and class than LeBron is on defense.


Pretty good playmaker/passer? LeBron is worlds better, not even in the same ballpark.

LeBron has the playmaking advantage over Durant, but Durant has the playmaking advantage over Howard too.

Like I said, I don't care if you think Lebron is better than Durant but thinking Howard is better than Durant is stupid.


Tremendous rebounder and plays PF? Durant is the worst rebounder of the three again and nearly all of his boards are on the defensive end because of being in the right place at the right time and not because he goes after it offensively which is where the true rebounders shine.


Total Rebounding Rate Stats
LeBron: 12.6%
Durant: 11.8%
Howard: 21.8%
Yes, I know Howard is on an entirely different class when it comes to rebounding between Durant and LeBron.

Lebron and Durant are on the same class in rebounding though but Durant is the better defensive rebounder while LeBron is the better offensive rebounder.

Lebron only gets more offensive rebounds because Durant is the stretch forward. He doesn't crash the boards because he has to stand or camp around the 3 point line or from distance so that OKC has more spacing to work with for guys like Harden and Westbrook who attack the basket.

They still average the same rebounds per game, LeBron averages a higher TR% but Durant averages a higher defensive rebounding percentage while LeBron averages a higher offensive rebounding percentage.

it shouldn't be a difference maker because they are essentially the same when it comes to rebounding.



Howard has regressed this season? In what way? How is Howard this year any worse than last year? Here's how idiots like you and the masses think he is worst: His team sucks this year and all the trade drama surrounding the team. Bullshit like that that isn't about him individiually. Do the Magic have one defensive player other than Howard on that roster? LOL
His ppg dropped, his bpg (defense) dropped, his FG% dropped, his FT% dropped (big time I should say), etc.

Magic were barely ranked top 10 in defense this season before Howard went out so it's quite clear that Howard actually doesn't play as great defense as he does anymore.

The Magic roster are no different last season than it is this season. All that has happened is Dwight Howard has regressed on practically every aspect of the game except rebounding.

Not to mention the fact that he has been a huge distraction to the team with his bullshit drama that he has brought to the locker room. Howard's leadership is no where near as good as Durant's.



Yes because we've already acknowledged Durants ONLY advantage is shooting over LeBron. Factor in anything that involves threes/free throws and there you go. FG% is their actual attempts from the field, not some bullshit formula. Maybe if Durants threes hurt his FG% he should be smart like LeBron and drive to the hoop for the easier points. No excuses.
Durant's advantage over LeBron is his scoring in general.

He scores a higher volume of ppg than LeBron does and he does it with a higher TS%.

How is 2 points from the FT line any different than 2 points from a field goal? They are both worth 2 points right? So why exactly does it matter?

Durant is a better FT shooter, 3 point shooter, and a better scorer in general.

Their eFG% is practically identical which combines 3 point shooting with 2 point shooting which goes to show you that Durant is just as efficient even without Ft shooting.


LeBron gets real assists AND hockey assists. Next
I was referring to why Durant is better than Howard on that end.


Sure the advantages Howard has over Durant are similar because of positions, but anyone that insists Durant is the same kind of impact player that LeBron is needs to wake the **** up
As I said,

The advantages that Howard has over Durant are the exact same advantages Howard has over LeBron.

Howard is better than Durant because he is a better rebounder, makes a better defensive impact, and shoots a higher FG%?

It's the same case if I were to say Howard is better than LeBron. Howard is better than LeBron because he is a better rebounder, makes a better defensive impact, and shoots a higher FG%. It's the same thing.

It makes no sense to say Howard is better than Durant but not better than LeBron especially with the arguments you have been using.


For LeBron his scoring is more efficient, superior playmaking, and just abiliity to single handly win games that puts him over Howard.
Lets see.

Durant scores more and more efficient than Howard just like Lebron does. Durant is a superior playmaker than Howard and Durant can single handily win games too.

You want to say Howard is better than Durant, be my guest, but you better say Howard is better than LeBron if you don't want to contradict yourself.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

Actually Durant is a pretty good defender, he is above average at least.

Durant isn't as good as Howard or Lebron defensively but LeBron isn't as good as Howard defensively either. Howard is in an entirely different tier and class than LeBron is on defense.


LeBron has the playmaking advantage over Durant, but Durant has the playmaking advantage over Howard too.

Like I said, I don't care if you think Lebron is better than Durant but thinking Howard is better than Durant is stupid.



Yes, I know Howard is on an entirely different class when it comes to rebounding between Durant and LeBron.

Lebron and Durant are on the same class in rebounding though but Durant is the better defensive rebounder while LeBron is the better offensive rebounder.

Lebron only gets more offensive rebounds because Durant is the stretch forward. He doesn't crash the boards because he has to stand or camp around the 3 point line or from distance so that OKC has more spacing to work with for guys like Harden and Westbrook who attack the basket.

They still average the same rebounds per game, LeBron averages a higher TR% but Durant averages a higher defensive rebounding percentage while LeBron averages a higher offensive rebounding percentage.

it shouldn't be a difference maker because they are essentially the same when it comes to rebounding.

http://cdn.hivehealthmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/sleep-deprivation.jpg

So in your 3 responses thus far you have confirmed that LeBron is the superior defensive player(HUGE part of the game half of it), rebounder, AND playmaking yet you bothered responding with that shit. LOL. That bullshit of "Howard should be better than LeBron then for the same reasons" doesn't apply when LeBron is superior at nearly EVERY facet of the game minus shooting. LOL. LeBron is a guy that dominates regardless, Durant can only hope to get hot with his stroke.



His ppg dropped, his bpg (defense) dropped, his FG% dropped, his FT% dropped (big time I should say), etc.

Magic were barely ranked top 10 in defense this season before Howard went out so it's quite clear that Howard actually doesn't play as great defense as he does anymore.

The Magic roster are no different last season than it is this season. All that has happened is Dwight Howard has regressed on practically every aspect of the game except rebounding.

Not to mention the fact that he has been a huge distraction to the team with his bullshit drama that he has brought to the locker room. Howard's leadership is no where near as good as Durant's.

The only real thing that "regressed" was his free throw shooting and since this year was a smaller sample size with the lockout I wouldn't count on him shootin below 50% again he was at around 60% for the past 6 years in a row consistantly.

His PPG is the third highest it's been in his careers, his blocks are around the same(.2 of a difference big shit), he is averaging a career high rebounds, assists, and steals.

Now tell me what kind of plays is Dwight Howard not able to make anymore that he was just last year? LOL. The statistical differences aside from free throw shooting are miniscule and he is the same player. Throw me more stats though because I know you will. I want to know what part of his ability on the court can he no longer do.

Team defensive ranking to rank one player? LOL just shows how much Howard is relied upon. The Magic don't have one defensive minded player on that team other than him. In fact I'm going to look up thte defensive rating for the games Dwight didn't play this year and see where they'd rank among the league.....LOL 24th if Dwight didn't play at all this year. Nice ****ing team, this guy doubled their position.


Durant's advantage over LeBron is his scoring in general.

He scores a higher volume of ppg than LeBron does and he does it with a higher TS%.

How is 2 points from the FT line any different than 2 points from a field goal? They are both worth 2 points right? So why exactly does it matter?

Durant is a better FT shooter, 3 point shooter, and a better scorer in general.

Their eFG% is practically identical which combines 3 point shooting with 2 point shooting which goes to show you that Durant is just as efficient even without Ft shooting.


I was referring to why Durant is better than Howard on that end.


As I said,

The advantages that Howard has over Durant are the exact same advantages Howard has over LeBron.

Howard is better than Durant because he is a better rebounder, makes a better defensive impact, and shoots a higher FG%?

It's the same case if I were to say Howard is better than LeBron. Howard is better than LeBron because he is a better rebounder, makes a better defensive impact, and shoots a higher FG%. It's the same thing.

It makes no sense to say Howard is better than Durant but not better than LeBron especially with the arguments you have been using.


Lets see.

Durant scores more and more efficient than Howard just like Lebron does. Durant is a superior playmaker than Howard and Durant can single handily win games too.

You want to say Howard is better than Durant, be my guest, but you better say Howard is better than LeBron if you don't want to contradict yourself.

TS%? eFG%? Yeah I'll go with the percentage the NBA actually lists, you know the one that is from ACTUAL RECORDINGS, not from hypothetical what if scenarios LOL.

Durant is no better a passer than Dwight which is funny as shit. Dwight is a decent passer for his position and has come a long way of passing out of the double team which is something Andrew Bynum blows penor at.

Refer to paragraph 1 of this post to debunk your retarded "OH IF DWIGHT IS BETTER THAN DURANT HES BETTER THAN LEBRON". No....just no. LeBron is in a class of himself. Same PPG, superior FG%, superior rebounding, superior playmaking, SUPERIOR DEFENSIVELY everywhere. Just superior, deal with it. There's a reason everyone cares about LeBron and his every move, while Durant is just some 2nd rate pube.

[Heavincent]

LeBron is in a class of himself. Same PPG, superior FG%, superior rebounding, superior playmaking, SUPERIOR DEFENSIVELY everywhere. Just superior, deal with it. There's a reason everyone cares about LeBron and his every move, while Durant is just some 2nd rate pube.

Lebron's disappearing acts in the playoffs are pretty awesome too.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

Lebron's disappearing acts in the playoffs are pretty awesome too.

What were Durants Finals numbers last year? Oh yeah he didn't even get there?

He did shoot an impressive 42% vs the same Mavs team LeBron faced which is a worse percentage, but noone cares because Durant is just some pube while LeBron will be a top ten player all-time lock

[StateOfMind12]

Durant can only hope to get hot with his stroke.
Except Durant is not a volume scorer. He scores about 28 ppg, with a FG% of 50%, eFG% of 55% and a TS% of 61% which is super efficient for a guy that scores with such high volume. He is the best scorer in the league today and it is quite clear.



The only real thing that "regressed" was his free throw shooting and since this year was a smaller sample size with the lockout I wouldn't count on him shootin below 50% again he was at around 60% for the past 6 years in a row consistantly.
Except all the other stats I listed, Howard regressed in those areas as well.




TS%? eFG%? Yeah I'll go with the percentage the NBA actually lists, you know the one that is from ACTUAL RECORDINGS, not from hypothetical what if scenarios LOL.
I know you want to avoid TS% and EFG% because it doesn't help your argument. It's funny, those two stats are advanced stats that aren't on NBA.com's actual list, yet you listed total rebounding percentage which isn't on NBA.com's actual list either. :oldlol:

You are just using whatever stat you can use to help your case regardless of whether it makes sense or whether you contradict yourself or not.


Durant is no better a passer than Dwight which is funny as shit. Dwight is a decent passer for his position and has come a long way of passing out of the double team which is something Andrew Bynum blows penor at.
What is this based on? Durant averages more apg than Howard does and this isn't even counting the hockey assists.

Good try though.




Refer to paragraph 1 of this post to debunk your retarded "OH IF DWIGHT IS BETTER THAN DURANT HES BETTER THAN LEBRON". No....just no. LeBron is in a class of himself. Same PPG, superior FG%, superior rebounding, superior playmaking, SUPERIOR DEFENSIVELY everywhere. Just superior, deal with it. There's a reason everyone cares about LeBron and his every move, while Durant is just some 2nd rate pube.
There is a reason why Durant was listed at #2 at the least by everyone in this thread except you. I suppse you are just jealous and scared that Durant will take the crown from LeBron as the best player in the league soon, if he hasn't already.

It's the same way Kobe fans felt about LeBron.......and it is cute.

[Heavincent]

LeBron will be a top ten player all-time lock

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

Except Durant is not a volume scorer. He scores about 28 ppg, with a FG% of 50%, eFG% of 55% and a TS% of 61%. He is the best scorer in the league today and it is quite clear.



Yeah a ***** jumpshooter that will be exposed in the playoffs. Good luck going deep with no post game, a shaky handle, and a reliance on your jump shot that may or may not be falling. There's a reason LeBrons teams go deep EVERY year even with shitty supporting casts like in Cleveland.


Except all the other stats I listed, Howard regressed in those areas as well.

Dwight Howard with a career high this year in RPG, APG, SPG, and third highest PPG of his career. Your desperation is showing in this argument LOL.

Also way to ignore these two paragraphs. Probably because you have no answer for it as it brought legit points.

Now tell me what kind of plays is Dwight Howard not able to make anymore that he was just last year? LOL. The statistical differences aside from free throw shooting are miniscule and he is the same player. Throw me more stats though because I know you will. I want to know what part of his ability on the court can he no longer do.

Team defensive ranking to rank one player? LOL just shows how much Howard is relied upon. The Magic don't have one defensive minded player on that team other than him. In fact I'm going to look up thte defensive rating for the games Dwight didn't play this year and see where they'd rank among the league.....LOL 24th if Dwight didn't play at all this year. Nice ****ing team, this guy doubled their position.


I know you want to avoid TS% and EFG% because it doesn't help your argument. It's funny, those two stats are advanced stats that aren't on NBA.com's actual list, yet you listed total rebounding percentage which isn't on NBA.com's actual list either.

You are just using whatever stat you can use to help your case regardless of whether it makes sense or whether you contradict yourself or not.

True rebounding rate is a legit statistic that shows the percentage of total rebounds Player A gets while he is on the court. Aka it matters. True shooting percentage is some weird stat that values free throw shooting much too high when they only count as 1 point each. It is more about who is the better shooter, not scorer, where I have already said that is the one area Durant is better at. That is his ONLY advantage. Shooting.


What is this based on? Durant averages more apg than Howard does and this isn't even counting the hockey assists.

Good try though.

What a surprise, the perimeter player who handles the ball a lot has more APG than the low post bigman!

Hockey assists are the results of posting up in many situations and when the defense is forced to rotate and over help. Durants post up game is a joke and Howard is one of if not the best at it. Hockey assists are a bullshit argument in Durants favor and have no real evidence as his post up game sucks to begin with while Dwights is great.

Howard gets more open looks from his teammates which is funny in itself. 3.5 APG for a perimeter ball handler is a joke.


There is a reason why Durant was listed at #2 at the least by everyone in this thread except you. I suppse you are just jealous and scared that Durant will take the crown from LeBron as the best player in the league soon, if he hasn't already.

It's the same way Kobe fans felt about LeBron.......and it is cute.

Because everyone get sucked into the "what have you done for me lately" crap. Its the same reason noone has Dirk top 5 when at the end of last year everyone had him as the best. I value more things over the latest stretch of games.

Don't be mad you can't counter any of my arguments.

[StateOfMind12]

Yeah a ***** jumpshooter that will be exposed in the playoffs. Good luck going deep with no post game, a shaky handle, and a reliance on your jump shot that may or may not be falling.
He still gets about 28 ppg, 50% FG, 55% eFG, and 61% TS% so it doesn't matter if he is just a jump shooter or not because the results are still there.


There's a reason LeBrons teams go deep EVERY year even with shitty supporting casts like in Cleveland.
Because he plays in the East although the East is stronger now but Lebron's supporting cast is stronger than ever. Lebron's teams in Cleveland only went deep in the East because it was weak back then.



Dwight Howard with a career high this year in RPG, APG, SPG, and third highest PPG of his career. Your desperation is showing in this argument LOL.
SPG? lol, by .1 compared to last season

And his APG is tied for his career high with his '06-'07 season.

RPG I'll give you but I never said he got worse there.


Also way to ignore these two paragraphs. Probably because you have no answer for it as it brought legit points.
You ignored most of my points as well, it's only fair I do the same.


Now tell me what kind of plays is Dwight Howard not able to make anymore that he was just last year? LOL. The statistical differences aside from free throw shooting are miniscule and he is the same player. Throw me more stats though because I know you will. I want to know what part of his ability on the court can he no longer do.
I'm not sure why abilities matter so much. I care much more about the actual results then what someone can do. Howard might be able to do the same as what he was once able to do but it's clear that the results and the production are not there anymore.

It's not a matter of what someone can do, it's a matter if someone actually does it, and Howard does not do it anymore.


Team defensive ranking to rank one player? LOL just shows how much Howard is relied upon. The Magic don't have one defensive minded player on that team other than him. In fact I'm going to look up thte defensive rating for the games Dwight didn't play this year and see where they'd rank among the league.....LOL 24th if Dwight didn't play at all this year. Nice ****ing team, this guy doubled their position.
Quentin Richardson is a defensive minded player but nevertheless Howard has still regressed defensively. It's not like he is carrying the load more than ever this season either. It's just another season for him with practically the same team he had last season.

His abilities may still be there, but the results, the production, and the desire is not there anymore.


True rebounding rate is a legit statistic that shows the percentage of total rebounds Player A gets while he is on the court. Aka it matters.
You said you wanted only stats that NBA shows, not some unofficial made up formula. True rebounding rate is the same thing as TS% and eFG% except it measures rebounding instead of shooting efficiency. It's the same thing so I find it funny how you discredit TS%, eFG%, but you credit TR%.


True shooting percentage is some weird stat that values free throw shooting much too high when they only count as 1 point each. It is more about who is the better shooter, not scorer, where I have already said that is the one area Durant is better at. That is his ONLY advantage. Shooting.
The problem is that TS% also accounts how many times you get into the line.

If someone were to shoot 90% from the FT line but only averages like 1-2 FTs per game then it's not going to do anything for their TS% because he barely gets to the line.

Durant averages about 7-8 FTA per game and so does LeBron for that matter but Durant shoots like 10% better than LeBron does from the FT line which is one reason why Durant shoots a higher TS% than Lebron.

If you miss two FTs, you are wasting possessions pretty much and that was why the hack a Shaq was utilized. A lot of teams used hack a Shaq when they were losing to Shaq and his team because they know that he was probably going to miss the 2 FTs and essentially waste their offensive possession.

That is why FT shooting is important.




Howard gets more open looks from his teammates which is funny in itself. 3.5 APG for a perimeter ball handler is a joke.
It doesn't change the fact that Durant is a better playmaker/passer than Howard is. Durant averaged more apg in his rookie season than Howard ever had in his career. :oldlol:



Because everyone get sucked into the "what have you done for me lately" crap. Its the same reason noone has Dirk top 5 when at the end of last year everyone had him as the best. I value more things over the latest stretch of games.

Don't be mad you can't counter any of my arguments.
I think you should look at the thread title again.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

He still gets about 28 ppg, 50% FG, 55% eFG, and 61% TS% so it doesn't matter if he is just a jump shooter or not because the results are still there.

Talk to me when he gets those numbers in the playoffs. Other than a one-sided first round series last year(LOL) Durant has never averaged over 45% shooting in a playoff series(LMFAO).

I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I bet LeBrons "TS%" and "eFG%" are superior in the playoffs LOL. Actually I will look it up. LOL their better. There goes Durants one advantage, mind as well make this a sweep for King James.


Because he plays in the East although the East is stronger now but Lebron's supporting cast is stronger than ever. Lebron's teams in Cleveland only went deep in the East because it was weak back then.


You play whose on the schedule, can't control it. Next


I'm not sure why abilities matter so much. I care much more about the actual results then what someone can do. Howard might be able to do the same as what he was once able to do but it's clear that the results and the production are not there anymore.

It's not a matter of what someone can do, it's a matter if someone actually does it, and Howard does not do it anymore.


Yeah because you just count the stats, and don't actually realize how those stats transcend to on the court. Step aside John Hollinger, next. Until I get some examples of things he can't do your either going to accept your fate as John Hollinger statgeek or admit you got owned.


Quentin Richardson is a defensive minded player but nevertheless Howard has still regressed defensively. It's not like he is carrying the load more than ever this season either. It's just another season for him with practically the same team he had last season.


His abilities may still be there, but the results, the production, and the desire is not there anymore.

Any evidence to this? His rebounds are a career high, the same number of blocks, and makes the same impact defensively that he always had. I know this by actually watching the games btw. The productino is the same.

Quentin Richardson? LOL good one, but for real who is their best defensive player not named Howard????


The problem is that TS% also accounts how many times you get into the line.

If someone were to shoot 90% from the FT line but only averages like 1-2 FTs per game then it's not going to do anything for their TS% because he barely gets to the line.

Durant averages about 7-8 FTA per game and so does LeBron for that matter but Durant shoots like 10% better than LeBron does from the FT line which is one reason why Durant shoots a higher TS% than Lebron.

If you miss two FTs, you are wasting possessions pretty much and that was why the hack a Shaq was utilized. A lot of teams used hack a Shaq when they were losing to Shaq and his team because they know that he was probably going to miss the 2 FTs and essentially waste their offensive possession.

That is why FT shooting is important.


10% from the line is valued the same as 10% from the field which is a joke. There is a much bigger difference from 50% shooting to 40% shooting from the field compared to 80% from the line and 70% from the line.

Funny how you mentioned Shaq and his poor free throw shooting. That is a guy who horsecocked his way to 4 titles. Safe to say his style works. Meanwhile Durant and his TS% that you jerk off to has 0 Finals appearences. Yeah I'll go with Shaq, next.


It doesn't change the fact that Durant is a better playmaker/passer than Howard is. Durant averaged more apg in his rookie season than Howard ever had in his career.

Proof?

I'm going to repost my paragraph about posting up and how it leads to hockey assists since you obviously ignored it or are incapable to understand it as you just jerk off to box scores.

"Hockey assists are the results of posting up in many situations and when the defense is forced to rotate and over help. Durants post up game is a joke and Howard is one of if not the best at it. Hockey assists are a bullshit argument in Durants favor and have no real evidence as his post up game sucks to begin with while Dwights is great."

Durant only gets more assists because he has the ball more and sometimes even regular passes end up being assists for him just because of how often he touches it. For Howard when he has the ball there is always a purpose, no bullshit. Post up, make a move , and then either score or pass out if the double/triple team is there. Something ALWAYS Happens when he has the ball and it is usually an efficient look.

[StateOfMind12]

Talk to me when he gets those numbers in the playoffs.
Kevin Durant averaged about 29 ppg in the playoffs last season and he shot a TS% of 58% so that's not exactly 61% like what he is shooting this season but it is still very efficient. Durant is much better this season anyways so it's not accurate to compare what Durant did last season or two seasons ago to what Durant is doing now.


Other than a one-sided first round series last year(LOL) Durant has never averaged over 45% shooting in a playoff series(LMFAO).
He pretty much averaged 45% against the Grizzlies last season in the post-season. 44.9% to be exact.


I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I bet LeBrons "TS%" and "eFG%" are superior in the playoffs LOL. Actually I will look it up. LOL their better. There goes Durants one advantage, mind as well make this a sweep for King James.
Durant has played in like 4 playoff series while LeBron has played in like 10+. The sample sizes are not particularly fair but if I had to take a guess Durant's post-season performances to age 23 is better than what LeBron's post-season performances were when he was at age 23.

They both started playing in the same league at 19 so age and years played are the same in this case.



You play whose on the schedule, can't control it. Next
You still have to look at the context. One accomplishment could look worse than the same accomplishment if you look at the context and in this case, it does. There is a reason why Kidd's two Finals appearance from 02 and 03 mean practically nothing to some people and it should be.


Any evidence to this? His rebounds are a career high, the same number of blocks, and makes the same impact defensively that he always had. I know this by actually watching the games btw. The productino is the same.

His bpg dropped from 2.4 last season to 2.1 bpg.

He doesn't make the same impact defensively since the Magic were barely top 10 defensively when Howard was playing. They were exactly ranked 10th defensively from what I could recall when Howard was playing.

Production is not the same, abilities might be though.



10% from the line is valued the same as 10% from the field which is a joke. There is a much bigger difference from 50% shooting to 40% shooting from the field compared to 80% from the line and 70% from the line.
This is how the TS% formula works....

True Shooting Percentage = Total points / [(FGA + (0.44 x FTA)]

It adjusts the Ft shooting so 1 FT is not worth the same as 1 FG, hence why the FT in that stat is multiplied by 0.44.

The stat is adjusted correctly.



Funny how you mentioned Shaq and his poor free throw shooting. That is a guy who horsecocked his way to 4 titles. Safe to say his style works. Meanwhile Durant and his TS% that you jerk off to has 0 Finals appearences. Yeah I'll go with Shaq, next.
:oldlol: No where did I compare Durant to Shaq. I was making a point of the importance of FT shooting and how teams took advantage of Shaq's massive Ft shooting weakness and how Shaq had to sit and rot on the bench because of that many times.

Plus, Shaq got some nice help in those 4 titles by playing with Wade and Kobe.


Durant only gets more assists because he has the ball more and sometimes even regular passes end up being assists for him just because of how often he touches it. For Howard when he has the ball there is always a purpose, no bullshit. Post up, make a move , and then either score or pass out if the double/triple team is there. Something ALWAYS Happens when he has the ball and it is usually an efficient look.
One assist is no different than any other. It would be like saying Howard's rebounds mean less because he is bigger and because he plays in the paint more often, it doesn't.

[Stern]

The f@ggot rg is now d1ck riding Durant.


Dwight Howard >>>>> Yao

[Fudge]

Does this douche really need to LOL after every sentence? :oldlol: Brah, it ain't that funny.

[Fudge]

He did shoot an impressive 42% vs the same Mavs team LeBron faced which is a worse percentage, but noone cares because Durant is just some pube while LeBron will be a top ten player all-time lock
LOL

[arifgokcen]

Wow quite a lot lebron haters.Probably we have multiple account guys.

BTW lebron will be top - 10.Its almost impossible for a player of his caliber not be top 10.If he wins more than 3 rings and 3FMVPs he will be ranked in top 3 ahead of bird,magic because of his defensive ability.He wins 5 then we will rank him #2.

Respect

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

Kevin Durant averaged about 29 ppg in the playoffs last season and he shot a TS% of 58% so that's not exactly 61% like what he is shooting this season but it is still very efficient. Durant is much better this season anyways so it's not accurate to compare what Durant did last season or two seasons ago to what Durant is doing now.

He pretty much averaged 45% against the Grizzlies last season in the post-season. 44.9% to be exact.

Durant has played in like 4 playoff series while LeBron has played in like 10+. The sample sizes are not particularly fair but if I had to take a guess Durant's post-season performances to age 23 is better than what LeBron's post-season performances were when he was at age 23.

They both started playing in the same league at 19 so age and years played are the same in this case.

What is Durant better at now than he was one or even two years ago? Can't wait to hear this. Oh and I want on the court skills please, no jerking off to stats especially when he averages less PPG.

And no 44.9% is not 45, I'm not going to round up giving him baskets he didn't make.

Not my fault Kevin Durant couldn't make deep playoff runs until he got a stacked supporting cast while LeBron has NEVER lost in the first round of the playoffs. We're not comparing Durant at 23 to LeBron at 23. We're comparing LeBron now to Durant now.


You still have to look at the context. One accomplishment could look worse than the same accomplishment if you look at the context and in this case, it does. There is a reason why Kidd's two Finals appearance from 02 and 03 mean practically nothing to some people and it should be.

Yeah I don't give a ****.


His bpg dropped from 2.4 last season to 2.1 bpg.

He doesn't make the same impact defensively since the Magic were barely top 10 defensively when Howard was playing. They were exactly ranked 10th defensively from what I could recall when Howard was playing.

Production is not the same, abilities might be though.

NBA.com has the BPG at 2.2. Next.

Doesn't make the same impact defensively? Because of .2 BPG? LOL Any evidence to show he doesn't react as quickly, is weaker, slower, anything? LOL. Youtube videos? Anything? Didn't think so.




:oldlol: No where did I compare Durant to Shaq. I was making a point of the importance of FT shooting and how teams took advantage of Shaq's massive Ft shooting weakness and how Shaq had to sit and rot on the bench because of that many times.

Plus, Shaq got some nice help in those 4 titles by playing with Wade and Kobe.


Yeah don't you ever ****ing compare that pencil dick ***** to the MDE.

Nice help? Durant has Westbrook who is a superstar as well and Harden who is a better 3rd option than Shaq or LeBron EVER had. Also the OKC role players are better than Shaqs Lakers or Heat role players. And he will still come up short in the playoffs LOL.


One assist is no different than any other. It would be like saying Howard's rebounds mean less because he is bigger and because he plays in the paint more often, it doesn't.

The ****? What does this have to do with anything? Howard doesn't get a lot of apg because like guys like Shaq/Dirk/Duncan he posts up and orchestrates the offense through double teams which result in the ball getting kicked out and swung to find the open player which is a more valuable assist that Durant could ever do with his shitty post game and "playmaking abiliity" LOL.

[Mr. Jabbar]

1-Kobe
2-Godbe
3-Coachbe
4-Swagbe
5-Prankbe

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

LOL

http://oi41.tinypic.com/4uh003.jpg

With LeBrons amazing stats/number of years as the leagues best player all it would take would be 1 or 2 titles for him to be a lock as a top 10 player all-time. You better pray it never happens.

[StateOfMind12]

What is Durant better at now than he was one or even two years ago? Can't wait to hear this. Oh and I want on the court skills please, no jerking off to stats especially when he averages less PPG.
He is better at pretty much every aspect particularly he is more efficient of a scorer than ever, a better rebounder than ever, a better playmaker than ever and a better defender than ever. He is pretty much better at everything these days.

I can't give you stats for defense but I didn't plan on doing it anyways.


And no 44.9% is not 45, I'm not going to round up giving him baskets he didn't make.
You're suppose to round up in math but we can stick to 44.9% if you would like.


Not my fault Kevin Durant couldn't make deep playoff runs until he got a stacked supporting cast while LeBron has NEVER lost in the first round of the playoffs. We're not comparing Durant at 23 to LeBron at 23. We're comparing LeBron now to Durant now.
It's also not Kevin Durant's fault that he played in a much tougher conference than LeBron ever did and every team that Durant lost to in the playoffs went on to win the championship.



Doesn't make the same impact defensively? Because of .2 BPG? LOL Any evidence to show he doesn't react as quickly, is weaker, slower, anything? LOL. Youtube videos? Anything? Didn't think so.
He doesn't make the same impact defensively because his team went from a top 3 defensive team last season to barely top 10 this season (Magic were barely top 10 defensively when Howard was healthy and playing).


The ****? What does this have to do with anything? Howard doesn't get a lot of apg because like guys like Shaq/Dirk/Duncan he posts up and orchestrates the offense through double teams which result in the ball getting kicked out and swung to find the open player which is a more valuable assist that Durant could ever do with his shitty post game and "playmaking abiliity" LOL.
Durant does the same with the hockey assists but he also gets actual assists unlike Howard. I have no idea why you are comparing Howard's passing to those other three. Howard never averaged more than 2 apg in a season while those 3 averaged like 3-4+ apg during their primes.


Also, Durant opens and frees up bigs who screen up for Durant when Durant moves and plays without the ball. It's something that doesn't show up in the stat-sheet and it's not even a hockey assist but it helps his team and his bigs get easy buckets.

That is why playing and moving without the ball can be so valuable which is something neither Howard or LeBron do. Reggie Miller did the same for his bigs all the time when he played.

[Fudge]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/4uh003.jpg

With LeBrons amazing stats/number of years as the leagues best player all it would take would be 1 or 2 titles for him to be a lock as a top 10 player all-time. You better pray it never happens.
:roll:

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

He is better at pretty much every aspect particularly he is more efficient of a scorer than ever, a better rebounder than ever, a better playmaker than ever and a better defender than ever. He is pretty much better at everything these days.

I can't give you stats for defense but I didn't plan on doing it anyways.


I don't want stats, I want to know what he can do that he couldn't before when he was the leagues leading scorer in 2010 when he averaged 30.1 PPG on 48-37-90 shooting. His scoring efficnecy is the same. His Free throw percentage went down, his three point percentage is the same, and his field goal percentage rose a tiny bit. Your favorite stat "true shooting percentage" also has that year and this year as relatively the same percentage. So your going to tell me .3 of a percentage is the difference from Durant barely being a top 10 player and being the undisputed 2nd or even BEST in the league? LMFAO.

How has he improved, what things can he do on the court that he couldn't before. This is what I want to know. His rebounding is only .3 better this year as well. So please feel free to enlighten me.



It's also not Kevin Durant's fault that he played in a much tougher conference than LeBron ever did and every team that Durant lost to in the playoffs went on to win the championship.

Yeah should have got a better playoff seed, don't care.


He doesn't make the same impact defensively because his team went from a top 3 defensive team last season to barely top 10 this season (Magic were barely top 10 defensively when Howard was healthy and playing).

Ranked 24th with Howard out. 10th or so with him in on a team with no defensive players aside from him. Yeah he sucks dude.


Durant does the same with the hockey assists but he also gets actual assists unlike Howard. I have no idea why you are comparing Howard's passing to those other three. Howard never averaged more than 2 apg in a season while those 3 averaged like 3-4+ apg during their primes.


Because Howard opens up his teammates for open shots more than Durant does and that's what it comes down to. Noone except for possibly LeBron/Rose can make the defense collapse like Howard can.


Also, Durant opens and frees up bigs who screen up for Durant when Durant moves and plays without the ball. It's something that doesn't show up in the stat-sheet and it's not even a hockey assist but it helps his team and his bigs get easy buckets.

Cool man


That is why playing and moving without the ball can be so valuable which is something neither Howard or LeBron do. Reggie Miller did the same for his bigs all the time when he played.


Howards off ball play involves getting offensive rebounds for his team which is about 4 per game. 4 extra possessions for his team today, pretrty good. As for Durant for all the **** sucking you give him for his rebounding he only gets 0.3 offensive ones per game LOL, he juist stat pads the easy rebounds on defense that anyone can get.

[StateOfMind12]

I don't want stats, I want to know what he can do that he couldn't before when he was the leagues leading scorer in 2010 when he averaged 30.1 PPG on 48-37-90 shooting. His scoring efficnecy is the same. His Free throw percentage went down, his three point percentage is the same, and his field goal percentage rose a tiny bit. Your favorite stat "true shooting percentage" also has that year and this year as relatively the same percentage. So your going to tell me .3 of a percentage is the difference from Durant barely being a top 10 player and being the undisputed 2nd or even BEST in the league? LMFAO.

How has he improved, what things can he do on the court that he couldn't before. This is what I want to know. His rebounding is only .3 better this year as well. So please feel free to enlighten me.

It's funny, you told me to list what he did better without listing stats and then you end up listing stats yourself.. :oldlol:


Oh and I want on the court skills please, no jerking off to stats especially when he averages less PPG.

Durant shoots 50% this season, 55% eFG%, and a TS% of 61%, that was much better scoring efficiency than what he put up in '09-'10. Plus, Durant had to do more carrying back in '09-'10 because Westbrook wasn't even an all-star back then and Harden played far less minutes back then. Durant isn't carrying as much of a load this season as he was in '09-'10.

Like I said, his rebounding is better (as the stats show), his efficiency is much better (as the stats show), better shooter from everywhere (close range, mid-range, long-range, etc.) his defense is better and that is something that I cannot show through stats. It was clear that Durant was just an average defender in '09-'10 though while he is a good defender these days especially in man to man defense.


Yeah should have got a better playoff seed, don't care.
He played in a tougher conference which results in a tougher schedule. A 50 win in '09-'10 season in the West was an 8th seed while a 50 win season in the '09-'10 season in the East would is the 5th seed. That's the difference between competition level.



Ranked 24th with Howard out. 10th or so with him in on a team with no defensive players aside from him. Yeah he sucks dude.
It's still a regression from last season when the Magic were ranked 3rd defensively when Howard was playing while the Magic are barely ranked 10th defensively when Howard was playing this season. It's a regression which is my point. I'm not saying Howard sucks or is overrated on defense.




Howards off ball play involves getting offensive rebounds for his team which is about 4 per game. 4 extra possessions for his team today, pretrty good. As for Durant for all the **** sucking you give him for his rebounding he only gets 0.3 offensive ones per game LOL, he juist stat pads the easy rebounds on defense that anyone can get.
How do you stat pad rebounds especially defensive rebounds? :oldlol:

You know you are losing in an argument when you have to claim the other player you are arguing against is a stat padder. :oldlol:

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

It's funny, you told me to list what he did better without listing stats and then you end up listing stats yourself.. :oldlol:


Durant shoots 50% this season, 55% eFG%, and a TS% of 61%, that was much better scoring efficiency than what he put up in '09-'10. Plus, Durant had to do more carrying back in '09-'10 because Westbrook wasn't even an all-star back then and Harden played far less minutes back then. Durant isn't carrying as much of a load this season as he was in '09-'10.

I was disputing your stats. So in this pargraph I don't see one thing that Durant can do now that he did in 2010. What moves has he added? What can he do now that he couldn't before? What ON-COURT abilities does he have now that make him better than the consensual borderline top 5 player he was in 2010?




He played in a tougher conference which results in a tougher schedule. A 50 win in '09-'10 season in the West was an 8th seed while a 50 win season in the '09-'10 season in the East would is the 5th seed. That's the difference between competition level.

Cool so instead of losing to the first seed, he would lose to the Celtics in the East that year who would've been champions for not a Kendrick Perkins injury. Awesome bro.




It's still a regression from last season when the Magic were ranked 3rd defensively when Howard was playing while the Magic are barely ranked 10th defensively when Howard was playing this season. It's a regression which is my point. I'm not saying Howard sucks or is overrated on defense.

Thats the Magic as a team, not Howard individually. When you use team defense to quanlify one player, it just shows how valuable that player is.



How do you stat pad rebounds especially defensive rebounds? :oldlol:

You know you are losing in an argument when you have to claim the other player you are arguing against is a stat padder. :oldlol:

Defensive Rebounds will come just by playing in the scheme of things defensively granted you play enough minutes and are relatively close to the hoop. Offensive rebounders show the guys who really go after it and have that desire on the boards. Durant isn't a great rebounder despite what the stats say. Durant averages more rebounds than a guy like Udonis Haslem, but it doesn't mean he's a bette rebounder.

[StateOfMind12]

I was disputing your stats. So in this pargraph I don't see one thing that Durant can do now that he did in 2010. What moves has he added? What can he do now that he couldn't before? What ON-COURT abilities does he have now that make him better than the consensual borderline top 5 player he was in 2010?


Like I said, his rebounding is better (as the stats show), his efficiency is much better (as the stats show), better shooter from everywhere (close range, mid-range, long-range, etc.) his defense is better and that is something that I cannot show through stats. It was clear that Durant was just an average defender in '09-'10 though while he is a good defender these days especially in man to man defense.

That's what he did on-court better.


Thats the Magic as a team, not Howard individually. When you use team defense to quanlify one player, it just shows how valuable that player is.
The Magic this season are the same team they were last season. All that happened is that Dwight Howard doesn't care as much anymore compared to last season and has become a locker room distraction which made the Magic defense go from 3rd ranked defensively to 10th defensively.

His game and his production has regressed this way.


Defensive Rebounds will come just by playing in the scheme of things defensively granted you play enough minutes and are relatively close to the hoop. Offensive rebounders show the guys who really go after it and have that desire on the boards. Durant isn't a great rebounder despite what the stats say. Durant averages more rebounds than a guy like Udonis Haslem, but it doesn't mean he's a bette rebounder.
Ok, Durant is a better defensive rebounder than LeBron while LeBron is a better offensive rebounder than Durant. I never said otherwise and it is actually exactly what I said earlier.

Durant plays with a bigger and better front-court than LeBron does, yet Durant averages the same amount of rebounds per game.

And as I said Durant doesn't get offensive rebounds because he is the stretch forward that spreads the floor and gives room for Harden and Westbrook to operate and attack the basket. Rebounds for offense are also come just by playing in the scheme of things.

Next.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The top 2 are clear, both Lebron and Durant have had strong seasons. Durant is a far better player than he's ever been before, and Lebron is playing great as he always does during the regular season. He's not having a career year like Durant, but he's at least having his 3rd or 4th best season.

I'd also say that Chris Paul is the only guy I can think of that deserves the top 3 spot.

But after them, it gets tough. Melo is playing better than anyone the last month, but he had such a disappointing season up until that point. He's my favorite player now, and I'd love to give him a top 5 ranking as he's playing the best ball of his career the last month, but with the entire season in mind, I'm not sure it's fair, though.

But here's my top 5 for now, even though I prefer waiting until after the playoffs.

1.Lebron
2.Durant
3.Chris Paul
4.Dwight- Rebounding was as strong as ever, post game was pretty close to last year, though a bit less consistent. Perhaps a bit less aggressive contesting shots than in the past, though part of that is an adjustment he's made after the Gortat trade to avoid foul trouble. He's not single-handedly making them a top 3 defensive team anymore, but they were still above average, and their main decline is due to him missing more games and the team chemistry, the latter is his fault, though. Despite the off the court issues, I have a hard time thinking of anyone else in this spot.

5.Dwyane Wade- He's missed a lot of games, and his minutes have been limited which makes this tough. But he's still a great player, he's really improved his post game and has become one of the better post up guards. I'm tempted to put him over Howard, but his minutes being limited so much for now makes it difficult, but if he plays consistently in the playoffs, he's definitely passing Dwight.

After them, Melo is closing in. If he keeps up his play for the remainder of the season and the playoffs then I'll put him top 5, with Howard likely dropping out assuming Wade is healthy and plays very well in the playoffs.

[talkingconch]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/4uh003.jpg

With LeBrons amazing stats/number of years as the leagues best player all it would take would be 1 or 2 titles for him to be a lock as a top 10 player all-time. You better pray it never happens.
And then you realize hes on the same team as Wade and Bosh.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/4uh003.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

@ ShaqAttack

Where do you have guys like Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Carmelo, and Westbrook this season ?

[ShaqAttack3234]

@ ShaqAttack

Where do you have guys like Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Carmelo, and Westbrook this season ?

Kobe would probably be top 6 for me at the moment behind the 5 I mentioned.

Carmelo is tough due to his play the last month, but it is a season ranking and he really struggled for a lot of the season. I'll really have to wait until the playoffs are over to rank him accurately.

Dirk is similar in that he had such a slow start, but has come on a lot stronger, and has really looked pretty much like himself for a long stretch now. So like Carmelo, I'll have to see how he finishes up.

I couldn't do a ranking far enough to give you an estimate on Duncan and Garnett, after the season is over I'll probably do another top 25 for this year, and I'll have a better idea, I suspect KG will be in it, unsure about Duncan, but I'll have to wait until I reflect on the top players and apply a consistent criteria.

After a little thought on Westbrook, I'd say that factoring in the situations Deron and Rose are in, I'll probably end up ranking Westbrook over them, which I was hesitant to do because of Rose's improvement as a facilitator when he has been on the court, and my opinion that Deron is a better all around point guard.

But in the end, I'd probably have Russell as the 3rd best point guard right now behind Chris Paul and perhaps a name that will surprise some, Steve Nash. But Parker is making that difficult with his season, he's not the shooting the ball as well, but he's really grown as a floor general, and he impressed the hell out of me once again tonight.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe would probably be top 6 for me at the moment behind the 5 I mentioned.

Carmelo is tough due to his play the last month, but it is a season ranking and he really struggled for a lot of the season. I'll really have to wait until the playoffs are over to rank him accurately.

Dirk is similar in that he had such a slow start, but has come on a lot stronger, and has really looked pretty much like himself for a long stretch now. So like Carmelo, I'll have to see how he finishes up.

I couldn't do a ranking far enough to give you an estimate on Duncan and Garnett, after the season is over I'll probably do another top 25 for this year, and I'll have a better idea, I suspect KG will be in it, unsure about Duncan, but I'll have to wait until I reflect on the top players and apply a consistent criteria.

After a little thought on Westbrook, I'd say that factoring in the situations Deron and Rose are in, I'll probably end up ranking Westbrook over them, which I was hesitant to do because of Rose's improvement as a facilitator when he has been on the court, and my opinion that Deron is a better all around point guard.

But in the end, I'd probably have Russell as the 3rd best point guard right now behind Chris Paul and perhaps a name that will surprise some, Steve Nash. But Parker is making that difficult with his season, he's not the shooting the ball as well, but he's really grown as a floor general, and he impressed the hell out of me once again tonight.

Thanks for your input.

Yeah, Paul should be #1 and I have Westbrook #2 at the moment. Nash doesn't really surprise me that much and having his team in the playoff hunt is an accomplishment to say the least. Parker would be #3 for me.

Good points on Dirk, Kobe, and Melo, I think they will need to be proven come playoff time to see where they are ranked this season.

[kileer7]

lbj, durant, cp3, k-love, wade

[LiLharvard]

Lebron James


Kevin Durant


Chris Paul



Kobe Bryant (goat)



Paul Pierce

[ShaqAttack3234]

Thanks for your input.

No problem, appreciate your posts. :cheers:

Yeah, Paul should be #1 and I have Westbrook #2 at the moment. Nash doesn't really surprise me that much and having his team in the playoff hunt is an accomplishment to say the least. Parker would be #3 for me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this is what sells me on Nash. When I watch him play, I realize that he's not quite the player he was from '05-'07, or even '10, but he still does those same things that made him great.

Right now, he's still as good of a shooter as pretty much anyone in the game, and from all areas there's also no better passer or playmaker in the league. Only Paul is up there in that area.

He's lost some quickness and stamina which limits his minutes and ability to score quite as much as he did, which drops him slightly.

But what he's done this season is nothing short of remarkable. The suns are right in position to make the playoffs, and Nash is pretty much responsible for everything that makes them good.

Phoenix is the 9th best offensive team, but just the 17th best defensive team, plus they're a mediocre rebounding team who get outrebounded by 1.3 per game, and the 11th worst defensive team.

He's doing this with a cast of Marcin Gortat, who is a very good center, but by far their second best player. Jared Dudley, Channing Frye, Shannon Brown, Grant Hill, who hasn't even been healthy and Markieff Morris.

And your rankings are reasonable to me, obviously, we have out disagreements, but I see where you're coming from.


Good points on Dirk, Kobe, and Melo, I think they will need to be proven come playoff time to see where they are ranked this season.

Yeah, like I said, my only definitive rankings are from after the season is over, that is partially because it's given me enough time to view enough players, and also a time to reflect.

My normal criteria is that in an 82 game season, players must play at least 42 regular season games to qualify, and no less than 50 games total, whether it be all in the regular season. or 42+ in the regular season and the additional games to reach 50+ in the playoffs.

Provided a player is healthy in the playoffs, and especially a deep playoff run, missed games will not affect a player's ranking if they play at least 60 regular season games, and even if it's slightly less, but a deep playoff run is included,

For example, Chris Webber in '02. He only played in 54 regular season games, but despite that, I saw enough of him to see how good he was, especially because of the deep playoff runs, so his ranking is not really altered. Particularly because those missed games early in the season, had no impact on the season.

However injuries that require a player to miss the playoffs on top of that are taken into consideration more.

There are exceptions, though such as Duncan in 2000. 74 regular season games was clearly enough for me to be positive that he was the 2nd best player in the NBA.

However injuries come into play more in my rankings if they happen early, or on and off causing a team to essentially be out of contention from the start and as a result, playing a lot of meaningless games. An example would be Pau Gasol in '07.

There will have to be slight adjustments made for the lockout season, for example, a minimum of 34 regular season games and at least 40 games total.

[Legends66NBA7]

Thanks again, sold post. :cheers:


For example, Chris Webber in '02. He only played in 54 regular season games, but despite that, I saw enough of him to see how good he was, especially because of the deep playoff runs, so his ranking is not really altered. Particularly because those missed games early in the season, had no impact on the season.

However injuries that require a player to miss the playoffs on top of that are taken into consideration more.

Great points on C-Webb.

I would consider a version of Webber this year to that off Derrick Rose. Right now, because of his injuries, he's hard to rank, but I'm sure he can turn it up in the playoffs.

Hopefully he's not too injured for the playoff push.

[All Net]

1-Lebron James
2-Kevin Durant
3- Dwyane Wade
4-Dwight Howard
5-Chris Paul

Now I know people will disagree with Wade at 3 due to his injury issues but I'm basing this on as an overall player and I don't see more than 2 or 3 being better than him. I think in the playoffs Wade will prove it. Wade being ranked 4 or 5 I don't have a problem with...it's fair enough.

I think Chris Paul's play this year has been teriffic...he deserves to be up there for his stats, clutch play and the way he has turned that franchise around.

[Kews1]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Dwight
5. RONDOOOOOOOOO :bowdown:

[coin24]

In any order..

Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Paul
Melo


Wade and Howard have no business in any top 5 due to injuries, poor play and Dwight being overrated as fu*k:oldlol:
Especially being the question is right now, not if/when healthy etc etc, otherwise thats completely different....

[Yung D-Will]

Blake is a superstar. His numbers prove that. He's considered the 2nd best PF already in year two od his career. At worst he's a star and a reliable 20 plus PPG scorer. How many teams have 2 of those? Just Heat and Thunder last I checked.


Numbers don't prove whether you're a superstar or not. Your ability to create offense and defensive plays when the defense is locked in determines that.

[Lebron23]

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dwight Howard
5. Russell Westbrook

[ShaqAttack3234]

Thanks again, sold post. :cheers:



Great points on C-Webb.

I would consider a version of Webber this year to that off Derrick Rose. Right now, because of his injuries, he's hard to rank, but I'm sure he can turn it up in the playoffs.

Hopefully he's not too injured for the playoff push.

Well, a difference with C-Webb is that he missed 28 games in an 82 game season which had him playing 65.9% of the Kings games, while Rose has already missed 26 games through Chicago's first 63 games which has had him play just 58.1% of Chicago's games. Interestingly, both teams had very good records without their stars. Kings were 19-9 without Webber, while the Bulls are 17-9 without Rose. Of course both teams also had better records with their stars, as Sacramento was 42-12 with Webber and Chicago are 31-7 with Rose.

But another big difference is that after the very early part of the season, Rose has missed extended stretches as well as being in and out of the lineup.

Webber on the other hand missed the first 20 games of the season returning making his debut about a week into December, and while working his way back, missed 3 more games into December, but From January through the rest of the season, he played 45 out of a possible 50 games and was consistent averaging 25 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 5.1 apg, 2.8 TO, 1.6 spg, 1.5 spg, 50.3 FG% and 54.5 TS%. And 2 of those missed games were the final 2 of the season with The Kings top seed set.

So pretty much in Webber's case, there was a 4 or 4 1/2 month regular season period where he was the lineup regularly, producing consistently, and a strong playoff run by his standards with the exception of his FT% and a few moments where he was perhaps overly passive, though that is open to interpretation. But it's different than Rose's current situation where he's in and out of the lineup as well as missing his own extended stretch and not really being able to develop a consistent rhythm like Webber did.

So he wasn't difficult for me to rank at top 6, but of course these rankings are depends on the competition each season. For example, I also ranked Webber top 6 in 2000, yet that was the best I've seen Webber play. He was more explosive, more athletic and more aggressive than 2002.

Or 2001 for that matter when Webber had a career high 27 ppg and improved his win total from 44 to 55 while also making his only all-nba first team, and finishing higher than ever in MVP voting at 4th. Yet he was just a better player to me in 2000, even though my ranking for C-Webb is similar in '01 at top 7.

Though this is more unique than the Webber analogy.

That the competition for the top 5 players is considerably weaker, and even the top 10 is tougher to determine considering the individual seasons we've seen this season.


1-Lebron James
2-Kevin Durant
3- Dwyane Wade
4-Dwight Howard
5-Chris Paul

Now I know people will disagree with Wade at 3 due to his injury issues but I'm basing this on as an overall player and I don't see more than 2 or 3 being better than him. I think in the playoffs Wade will prove it. Wade being ranked 4 or 5 I don't have a problem with...it's fair enough.

I think Chris Paul's play this year has been teriffic...he deserves to be up there for his stats, clutch play and the way he has turned that franchise around.

These are pretty much my thoughts about Wade as well. Chris Paul was my pick at top 3 for now at least simply because as of now, there haven't been the questions surrounding him while with Wade there are the injuries, and with Howard, the injuries and other bullshit.

Of course, Paul's play also warrants it, imo, but I also don't have a problem with the top 3-5 being in any order. I also think sll of the "Wade is declining" shit will disappear in the playoffs and he'll be viewed in a similar way to how he was last season. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but it seems plausible to me.