Why hasn't Tim Duncan won a DPOY award in his career yet?

[PTB Fan]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2006/05/l11780-1.jpg

[SCdac]

good question. he had a great shot in 2007, other years too.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2007/05/l51910-1.jpg

[Scholar]

During his prime, he just so happened to play in a league where Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett and Metta World Peace (formerly known as Ron Artest) were considered defensive beasts. :confusedshrug:

Now he's too far past his prime to even contend for All-Defensive 1st Team.

[linZoMourning]

same reason pop doesnt win coach of the year

same reason bowen never won DPOY

the awards are meaningless and often dont go to the deserving player like most nba awards

[For_Three]

Why did you post that picture? It has nothing to do with Tim.

[linZoMourning]

During his prime, he just so happened to play in a league where Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett and Metta World Peace (formerly known as Ron Artest) were considered defensive beasts. :confusedshrug:

Now he's too far past his prime to even contend for All-Defensive 1st Team.

he may be past his prime but this year he should be in contention for all-defensive 1st. hes just a straight beast on defense this year

[SCdac]

same reason pop doesnt win coach of the year

same reason bowen never won DPOY

the awards are meaningless and often dont go to the deserving player like most nba awards

Pop has won it before actually

[PTB Fan]

Why did you post that picture? It has nothing to do with Tim.

I'm just surprised considering he has been a great defender throughout his career.

[For_Three]

I'm just surprised considering he has been a great defender throughout his career.


Sorry I wasn't talking about you. Should have quoted it. The person below you (SCDac) had a picture of another Spurs player blocking a shot. When I called him out on it he realized it and changed it.

[PTB Fan]

Sorry I wasn't talking about you. Should have quoted it. The person below you (SCDac) had a picture of another Spurs player blocking a shot. When I called him out on it he realized it and changed it.

:cheers:

I thought you were talking at me. That's why i changed the pic in the first post.

[bdreason]

Are you really asking why Duncan didn't win one of the "media" awards? Duncan has never got his proper respect from the media and/or general public.


Meanwhile, media darlings like Kobe and LeBron are automatic bids to All-Defense 1st teams.

[Whoah10115]

There isn't one season where he should have won it. Just because he's great enough to deserve it doesn't mean anything.


He hasn't played hard in the regular season since 2004. So no way he should have won a DPOTY since then. Wallace, Artest, KG were all ahead. Tho I think Bowen should have won since 2005 or 2006.

[Doctor Rivers]

it's because everyone is sleeping on the spurs

[arifgokcen]

Are you really asking why Duncan didn't win one of the "media" awards? Duncan has never got his proper respect from the media and/or general public.


Meanwhile, media darlings like Kobe and LeBron are automatic bids to All-Defense 1st teams.
Sorry but did you even watch lebron at all.He is widely regarded as one of the best defensive forces in the game.Dont forget he is almost averaging 2spg 1bpg.Lebron is probably the frontrunner in dpoy award this year.

[Droid101]

it's because everyone is sleeping on the spurs
:roll:

[kileer7]

It's a ****ing tragedy that Duncan doesn't have a DPOY.

[Whoah10115]

Tim Duncan has never gotten the proper respect from the media? He has two MVP awards, when both times other players were much more hyped than he was for the award. He was 1st Team All-NBA in 06/07, two years after stopped going all out in the regular season. He was 1st Team All-Defense in 07/08. He was getting more 1st Team NBA votes than Dirk in 08/09.



Who votes on those MVP and All-NBA Team awards? The same media that didn't give him a DPOTY.





Should he have won it over Mourning in 99 or 00? No. Should he have beaten out Dikembe in 01? No. Should he have beaten out Wallace in 02 or 03? 03 was his best season, defensively. And no. Should he have won 04 over Artest or KG? Nope. Was Bowen not better than him after 03 on? Yep.




No.

[Droid101]

Tim Duncan has never gotten the proper respect from the media? He has two MVP awards, when both times other players were much more hyped than he was for the award. He was 1st Team All-NBA in 06/07, two years after stopped going all out in the regular season. He was 1st Team All-Defense in 07/08. He was getting more 1st Team NBA votes than Dirk in 08/09.



Who votes on those MVP and All-NBA Team awards? The same media that didn't give him a DPOTY.





Should he have won it over Mourning in 99 or 00? No. Should he have beaten out Dikembe in 01? No. Should he have beaten out Wallace in 02 or 03? 03 was his best season, defensively. And no. Should he have won 04 over Artest or KG? Nope. Was Bowen not better than him after 03 on? Yep.




No.
You forgot " /thread " at the end of your post, there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg29/scaled.php?server=29&filename=kobeduncan.gif&res=medium

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/figohenry/Vince%20Carter/VC%20pictures/VC%20Gif/DUNCAN-1.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view/185335/lebron-dunking-on-timmy-o.gif




:D

[magnax1]

Tim Duncan has never gotten the proper respect from the media? He has two MVP awards, when both times other players were much more hyped than he was for the award. He was 1st Team All-NBA in 06/07, two years after stopped going all out in the regular season. He was 1st Team All-Defense in 07/08. He was getting more 1st Team NBA votes than Dirk in 08/09.



Who votes on those MVP and All-NBA Team awards? The same media that didn't give him a DPOTY.





Should he have won it over Mourning in 99 or 00? No. Should he have beaten out Dikembe in 01? No. Should he have beaten out Wallace in 02 or 03? 03 was his best season, defensively. And no. Should he have won 04 over Artest or KG? Nope. Was Bowen not better than him after 03 on? Yep.




No.
I mostly agree with this. I think a case could be made for him over Wallace, and he's probably one of the 2 or 3 best defenders of the decade whether he deserved a DPOTY or not, but if you do it year by year, I think the only year I might give it to him is 05, and I'd probably say Bruce Bowen is equally or more so deserving.

[TMT]

Tim Duncan has never gotten the proper respect from the media? He has two MVP awards, when both times other players were much more hyped than he was for the award. He was 1st Team All-NBA in 06/07, two years after stopped going all out in the regular season. He was 1st Team All-Defense in 07/08. He was getting more 1st Team NBA votes than Dirk in 08/09.

Who votes on those MVP and All-NBA Team awards? The same media that didn't give him a DPOTY.

Should he have won it over Mourning in 99 or 00? No. Should he have beaten out Dikembe in 01? No. Should he have beaten out Wallace in 02 or 03? 03 was his best season, defensively. And no. Should he have won 04 over Artest or KG? Nope. Was Bowen not better than him after 03 on? Yep.

No.

Nice post. Bolded are the only things I found wrong with it.

[TMT]

http://gifsoup.com/view/185335/lebron-dunking-on-timmy-o.gif




:D

I remember this was all they were showing on SC before the 07 Finals. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I remember this was all they were showing on SC before the 07 Finals. :oldlol:
:oldlol:

[Artillery]

There isn't one season where he should have won it. Just because he's great enough to deserve it doesn't mean anything.


He hasn't played hard in the regular season since 2004. So no way he should have won a DPOTY since then. Wallace, Artest, KG were all ahead. Tho I think Bowen should have won since 2005 or 2006.

That's BS. Duncan's DPOY is sitting on Camby's shelf right now. No way Marcus deserved it that year.

[Smoke117]

He peaked around the same as Ben Wallace and Big Ben was frankly just more dominant.

[Bigsmoke]

Ben Wallace >

[Phong]

That's BS. Duncan's DPOY is sitting on Camby's shelf right now. No way Marcus deserved it that year.Bowen was second in DPOY voting that year.

[linZoMourning]

Ben Wallace >

duncan > bowen > wallace

[Whoah10115]

That's BS. Duncan's DPOY is sitting on Camby's shelf right now. No way Marcus deserved it that year.



Camby gets a lot of shit for a trophy he was deserving of. The only reason he does is because he's not viewed in the same light as the others and because everyone thinks Duncan should have one for being Duncan. Duncan's defensive season was special in 07? He shouldn't have been 1st Team All-Defense. Give me KG on that shitty T-Wolves team instead.



People want to complain about players getting lifetime achievement awards and then, when they go their career without an award, people wanna rip the system just to do it. Please, Duncan winning DPOTY in 07...there's no way that by 07 Bowen wasn't playing better defense than Duncan.

[TheBigVeto]

He plays for a small market team that pissed off David Stern everytime they won a championship. Stern did not want Duncan to win too many things.

[ThaRegul8r]

Tim Duncan has never gotten the proper respect from the media? He has two MVP awards, when both times other players were much more hyped than he was for the award. He was 1st Team All-NBA in 06/07, two years after stopped going all out in the regular season. He was 1st Team All-Defense in 07/08. He was getting more 1st Team NBA votes than Dirk in 08/09.



Who votes on those MVP and All-NBA Team awards? The same media that didn't give him a DPOTY.

In 2007, writers in the media were arguing against the notion that Tim Duncan was one of the ten best players in NBA history, and I recall one writer saying there were no less than 22 players in NBA history he'd rank over Duncan.

:coleman:

[Artillery]

Camby gets a lot of shit for a trophy he was deserving of.

:roll:

Camby is, was, and has always been overrated as a defender. The judges looked at blocks and rebounds and assumed he was the best defender in the league. The only thing he excelled at was help defense. His man defense and post defense was AWFUL for his position. Gambling for blocks = good D? Yeah right. He routinely let his man blow right by him and used his athleticism to gain a high number of recovery blocks. He camps under the rim looking to block everything(regardless of where his man is), rips rebounds away from his own teammates, and attempts to take the ball up the floor after every board instead of passing it to a guard. One of the dumbest defensive bigs I've ever seen. But yeah, Tim was overrated for anchoring the 2nd best defense in the league that year while Camby was filling the stat sheets.


The only reason he does is because he's not viewed in the same light as the others and because everyone thinks Duncan should have one for being Duncan. Duncan's defensive season was special in 07? He shouldn't have been 1st Team All-Defense. Give me KG on that shitty T-Wolves team instead.

Duncan had the highest defensive rating in the league from '05 to '07 and led the league in defensive win shares from '06 to '07. But yeah, let's give the award to Camby and reward stat stuffers.


People want to complain about players getting lifetime achievement awards and then, when they go their career without an award, people wanna rip the system just to do it. Please, Duncan winning DPOTY in 07...there's no way that by 07 Bowen wasn't playing better defense than Duncan.

Bowen was defending guards. Duncan was the defensive anchor. Both are equally important.

[Bigsmoke]

duncan > bowen > wallace

:biggums:

Wallace himself can make your team into the best defensive team in the league.

Timmy was a force on D but stop it. He was never Dikembe Mutombo or Ben Wallace good.

[DKLaker]

In 2007, writers in the media were arguing against the notion that Tim Duncan was one of the ten best players in NBA history, and I recall one writer saying there were no less than 22 players in NBA history he'd rank over Duncan.

:coleman:

I agree with that writer....Tim Duncan's best season is identical to Kevin McHale's best season......very solid but not a bit of Wow about it......nothing great. Duncan is steady, reliable but never scared me.......Manu scared the Fk out of me, Dude is incredible and all over the court getting things done......Parker a bit of that too. Duncan = :sleeping :sleeping :sleeping
seen it before. McHale.

[Jotaro Durant]

because he was never the best defender in a season @ any point in his career

[D-Wade316]

Should have won in '07 over Camby.

[StateOfMind12]

Tim Duncan is and always was an overrated defender. People seem to fail to realize how much he benefited from having a Pop as a coach, Bruce Bowen as a perimeter defender in front of him, defensive minded players, etc.

I never feared Tim Duncan as a defender when I watched my team or my favorite players go up against him. He just wasn't that great in my opinion on that end of the floor.

[TheBigVeto]

In 2007, writers in the media were arguing against the notion that Tim Duncan was one of the ten best players in NBA history, and I recall one writer saying there were no less than 22 players in NBA history he'd rank over Duncan.

:coleman:

It's obvious. Members of the media was paid by David Stern & The Lakers Organization.

[TheBigVeto]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg29/scaled.php?server=29&filename=kobeduncan.gif&res=medium

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/figohenry/Vince%20Carter/VC%20pictures/VC%20Gif/DUNCAN-1.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view/185335/lebron-dunking-on-timmy-o.gif

:D

Dunks are overrated.

[linZoMourning]

Tim Duncan is and always was an overrated defender. People seem to fail to realize how much he benefited from having a Pop as a coach, Bruce Bowen as a perimeter defender in front of him, defensive minded players, etc.

I never feared Tim Duncan as a defender when I watched my team or my favorite players go up against him. He just wasn't that great in my opinion on that end of the floor.

is this a ****ing JOKE?? LMAO

[TMT]

Tim Duncan is and always was an overrated defender. People seem to fail to realize how much he benefited from having a Pop as a coach, Bruce Bowen as a perimeter defender in front of him, defensive minded players, etc.

I never feared Tim Duncan as a defender when I watched my team or my favorite players go up against him. He just wasn't that great in my opinion on that end of the floor.

You have to be somewhat good on the defensive end to win 4 championships as the centerpiece. Other than Robinson (mostly at the end of his career), Duncan never had good bigs capable of great defense. He gets discredited for that but over the years the best bigs he's played with are Horry, Oberto, Francisco Elson, Nesterovic, Nazr, Malik Rose, and current Splitter. Those are solid role players but really nothing great.

Bowen + Pop alone don't get you to four rings. It's harder to realize for those who didn't watch Duncan in his prime, but he actually used to have a nice vert and athleticism. :rolleyes: He was (and still is) a hell of a shotblocker, why is he getting absolute no credit for that? He took Shaq head to head countless times over his career and he stood his ground. Duncan is one of the only bigs from their generation Shaq even gives credit to and that's saying something.

Saying Duncan's defense wasn't a game changer back in the day is ridiculous. Some of you don't know what you're talking about.

[LockoutOver11]

duncan > bowen > wallace

bwahahaha... dumbass

[Mr. Jabbar]

cause every year there has been a better defender? :confusedshrug:

not like he was robbed like kobe was from his MVP's

[LockoutOver11]

cause every year there has been a better defender? :confusedshrug:

not like he was robbed like kobe was from his MVP's

bwahahaha another dumbass

[StateOfMind12]

You have to be somewhat good on the defensive end to win 4 championships as the centerpiece.
I never said he wasn't somewhat good. I just don't think he is some all-time great like I've heard people say. I think he was a great defender but not some legendary all-time great defender like Bill Russell. I actually think KG was a better defender than Duncan was but they are in the same tier.


Other than Robinson (mostly at the end of his career), Duncan never had good bigs capable of great defense. He gets discredited for that but over the years the best bigs he's played with are Horry, Oberto, Francisco Elson, Nesterovic, Nazr, Malik Rose, and current Splitter. Those are solid role players but really nothing great.
Those are all very solid defensive players though which is my point. I'm not discrediting Duncan is an individual all-time great. I'm just saying he is not that great on the defensive end like a lot of people make him out to be.


Bowen + Pop alone don't get you to four rings. It's harder to realize for those who didn't watch Duncan in his prime, but he actually used to have a nice vert and athleticism. :rolleyes: He was (and still is) a hell of a shotblocker, why is he getting absolute no credit for that? He took Shaq head to head countless times over his career and he stood his ground. Duncan is one of the only bigs from their generation Shaq even gives credit to and that's saying something.
Someone brought up a good point about Duncan on another site.

He stated that a large reason why Duncan was so inconsistent on the defensive end after 2003 was due to injuries. While Duncan did play games despite injuries, the injuries hurt his play, his production, and most importantly his defense.

He talked about how in 2005, he had an ankle injury that really affected him. In 2006, he had plantar fasciitis which made it seem like he was declining or on his way to being finished. In 2007, he was actually healthy again and he was a force once again especially on the defensive end and in 2008 father time started taking over and injuries had little to do with it.



Saying Duncan's defense wasn't a game changer back in the day is ridiculous. Some of you don't know what you're talking about.
He is a game-changer on defense but he isn't an all-time great defender.

[Artillery]

cause every year there has been a better defender? :confusedshrug:

As if Kobe deserved any of his defensive first team selections after the early 2000s.

[Bigsmoke]

You have to be somewhat good on the defensive end to win 4 championships as the centerpiece. Other than Robinson (mostly at the end of his career), Duncan never had good bigs capable of great defense. He gets discredited for that but over the years the best bigs he's played with are Horry, Oberto, Francisco Elson, Nesterovic, Nazr, Malik Rose, and current Splitter. Those are solid role players but really nothing great.

Bowen + Pop alone don't get you to four rings. It's harder to realize for those who didn't watch Duncan in his prime, but he actually used to have a nice vert and athleticism. :rolleyes: He was (and still is) a hell of a shotblocker, why is he getting absolute no credit for that? He took Shaq head to head countless times over his career and he stood his ground. Duncan is one of the only bigs from their generation Shaq even gives credit to and that's saying something.

Saying Duncan's defense wasn't a game changer back in the day is ridiculous. Some of you don't know what you're talking about.

Nazr and Malik Rose were good defenders:confusedshrug:

[rmt]

Tim Duncan is and always was an overrated defender. People seem to fail to realize how much he benefited from having a Pop as a coach, Bruce Bowen as a perimeter defender in front of him, defensive minded players, etc.

I never feared Tim Duncan as a defender when I watched my team or my favorite players go up against him. He just wasn't that great in my opinion on that end of the floor.

Defensive rating:

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
2009-10 NBA 100.8 (7)
Active 95.4 (1)
Career NBA 95.4 (3)
Career 95.4 (3)

Defensive Win Shares
1997-98 NBA 7.2 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.4 (3)
2000-01 NBA 7.1 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.1 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.2 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.7 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.9 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.8 (1)
2007-08 NBA 6.2 (3)
2008-09 NBA 5.0 (4)
Active 87.9 (1)
Career NBA 87.9 (6)
Career 87.9 (6)

So a player who is 3rd all-time ever in Defensive Rating and 6th overall ever in Defensive Win Shares is an over rated defender - like he didn't anchor the best defense in the league for over a decade. Must be like how he just lucked into his 4 championships. If it were so easy, others would be doing it too.

It's a pity that TD never won a DPOY award - Camby over Duncan - LOL.

[Smoke117]

Bowen was second in DPOY voting that year.

Bowen was never a better or more important defensive player than Tim Duncan. That is just absurd.

[Whoah10115]

I mostly agree with this. I think a case could be made for him over Wallace, and he's probably one of the 2 or 3 best defenders of the decade whether he deserved a DPOTY or not, but if you do it year by year, I think the only year I might give it to him is 05, and I'd probably say Bruce Bowen is equally or more so deserving.



I agree, he is one of the best (Definitely 5, maybe 3, definitely not 2) defenders of the decade.


05 I'd rather have Garnett, tho his team did suck.




Nice post. Bolded are the only things I found wrong with it.



I think by at least by 05/06 Bowen was a better defender.



There definitely came a point where Duncan didn't go as hard in the regular season. Maybe some of it is Pop relying more on the system, for the longterm preservation of his career (don't know how long it's been since the knees started going bone on bone) but there definitely came a point where Duncan wasn't the same regular season player.




You forgot " /thread " at the end of your post, there.



I'm thinking about it...

[StateOfMind12]

So a player who is 3rd all-time ever in Defensive Rating and 6th overall ever in Defensive Win Shares is an over rated defender - like he didn't anchor the best defense in the league for over a decade. Must be like how he just lucked into his 4 championships. If it were so easy, others would be doing it too.
You just gave me two stats that I don't care about or use what so ever. Defense is not a metric so you really didn't prove anything to me.

Plus, isn't Carlos Boozer top 6 in both of those defensive stats this season? I think we all know that Carlos Boozer is NOT top 6 defender in the league.

[Whoah10115]

:roll:

Camby is, was, and has always been overrated as a defender. The judges looked at blocks and rebounds and assumed he was the best defender in the league. The only thing he excelled at was help defense. His man defense and post defense was AWFUL for his position. Gambling for blocks = good D? Yeah right. He routinely let his man blow right by him and used his athleticism to gain a high number of recovery blocks. He camps under the rim looking to block everything(regardless of where his man is), rips rebounds away from his own teammates, and attempts to take the ball up the floor after every board instead of passing it to a guard. One of the dumbest defensive bigs I've ever seen. But yeah, Tim was overrated for anchoring the 2nd best defense in the league that year while Camby was filling the stat sheets.



Duncan had the highest defensive rating in the league from '05 to '07 and led the league in defensive win shares from '06 to '07. But yeah, let's give the award to Camby and reward stat stuffers.



Bowen was defending guards. Duncan was the defensive anchor. Both are equally important.



I don't measure importance by position. When plugging in a team, yea. But I don't go by that, just like I won't credit every great centerfielder as being better than a leftfielder, just because he's CF. By 2005, at the latest, I feel there's no way Bowen wasn't a better defender...at least in the regular season.




That's also not really true at all about Camby. He's just a scapegoat. I didn't say I'd give him the DPOTY award, but that he was good enough to win and he was a better defender than Duncan that year. I don't have Tim Duncan 1st Team All-Defense past 2003. Marion, Kirilenko, Artest, KG, are all guys who were deserving of that place. I don't know who I give it to. I don't even want to give it to Wallace in 05, much less Wallace in 06 (his least impressive year, tho the Pistons were great that year). Those were somewhat unimpressive seasons in the NBA as a whole. KG wasn't even in the playoffs with his awful team, so hard to credit him with actually winning an award. Like Love this season, he deserves placement on the list of best and NBA Team selections, but it's hard to credit him with a win for anything.




In 2007, writers in the media were arguing against the notion that Tim Duncan was one of the ten best players in NBA history, and I recall one writer saying there were no less than 22 players in NBA history he'd rank over Duncan.





Duncan was also 30 back then. It was on the cusp of winning a 4th title (remember everyone calling for Kobe to be top 5 after 2010). But he wasn't the Finals MVP and he was NOT the best player in that series (he wasn't the best player in the Detroit series either). His importance is what it is. He's the team's best player, even as late as 2007. But he didn't play better, stats or not. He was only 30years old. He had the same coach his whole career. His core has been consistent. He wasn't at his most exceptional in that series. They beat a Cavs team that only got there because Lebron went crazy against an entitled Pistons team. And the victory over the Suns made everyone sour. Add that people are sensitive about dropping guys off list. There's nothing shocking about not placing Duncan top 10 in 2007.




That one writer was just a moron.

[Odinn]

At his peak and in most of his prime, Duncan was goat level defender. Having a DPoY not gonna change that and do not having a DPoY not gonna change that either.

[Smoke117]

Like I said before, through the late 90s and early 00's before Robinson's back gave out he was the real defensive anchor and after that Ben Wallace was peaking at the same time and was frankly just a more dominant anchor and defensive player.

[millwad]

At his peak and in most of his prime, Duncan was goat level defender. Having a DPoY not gonna change that and do not having a DPoY not gonna change that either.

Ge was not a GOAT level defender..:facepalm

Who did TD ever shut down?

[Odinn]

Ge was not a GOAT level defender..:facepalm

Who did TD ever shut down?
Entire 2003 Finals speaks for itself. Especially game 6. Also he shutted down Nowitzki multiple times. Those first came to my mind.

[ninephive]

For the same reason Don Nelson has won "Coach of the Year" more times than Phil Jackson and Poppovich combined. :facepalm Some things just don't make any sense.

[D-Wade316]

Defensive rating:

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
2009-10 NBA 100.8 (7)
Active 95.4 (1)
Career NBA 95.4 (3)
Career 95.4 (3)

Defensive Win Shares
1997-98 NBA 7.2 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.4 (3)
2000-01 NBA 7.1 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.1 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.2 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.7 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.9 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.8 (1)
2007-08 NBA 6.2 (3)
2008-09 NBA 5.0 (4)
Active 87.9 (1)
Career NBA 87.9 (6)
Career 87.9 (6)

So a player who is 3rd all-time ever in Defensive Rating and 6th overall ever in Defensive Win Shares is an over rated defender - like he didn't anchor the best defense in the league for over a decade. Must be like how he just lucked into his 4 championships. If it were so easy, others would be doing it too.

It's a pity that TD never won a DPOY award - Camby over Duncan - LOL.
A 10-year ranking of DRAPM had Duncan placed 4th best defender.
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking

#1 - Garnett
#2 - Jason Collins
#3 - Wallace
#4 - Duncan and Artest

[Bigsmoke]

Entire 2003 Finals speaks for itself. Especially game 6. Also he shutted down Nowitzki multiple times. Those first came to my mind.

Dirk shut himself out for getting hurt.

The Spurs were going to win that series regardlessly but i think the Kings would have knocked you guys out if Webber wasnt made out of glass.

[Odinn]

Dirk shut himself out for getting hurt.

The Spurs were going to win that series regardlessly but i think the Kings would have knocked you guys out if Webber wasnt made out of glass.
Oh. I didn't mention 2003 WCF. Duncan shutted down Nowitzki in some games that are in different seasons or playoffs.

[linZoMourning]

You just gave me two stats that I don't care about or use what so ever. Defense is not a metric so you really didn't prove anything to me.

Plus, isn't Carlos Boozer top 6 in both of those defensive stats this season? I think we all know that Carlos Boozer is NOT top 6 defender in the league.

bro you just said the dumbest thing ever said on ISH. tim duncan is a overrated defender. dont /thread. just /wrists

[TMT]

Yeah Duncan had injuries during his career. But if you say Duncan wasn't an elite defender you are mistaken, he was right up there with Big Ben and KG during their defensive primes.

[millwad]

Entire 2003 Finals speaks for itself. Especially game 6. Also he shutted down Nowitzki multiple times. Those first came to my mind.

Are you serious?
The '03 Nets team is one of the worst offensive teams in the finals ever, and not only offensive, they are one of the worst teams in the finals ever a la their 49 win season.

And what is "shutted"? And for your information, Dirk had plenty of high scoring games vs the Spurs and his FG% in the playoffs is even higher vs the Spurs than his overall FG% in the playoffs during his career.

Duncan is not a GOAT defender..:facepalm
He is definitely an elite defender but no way is he a GOAT defender..

[ninephive]

Are you serious?
The '03 Nets team is one of the worst offensive teams in the finals ever, and not only offensive, they are one of the worst teams in the finals ever a la their 49 win season.

And what is "shutted"? And for your information, Dirk had plenty of high scoring games vs the Spurs and his FG% in the playoffs is even higher vs the Spurs than his overall FG% in the playoffs during his career.

Duncan is not a GOAT defender..:facepalm
He is definitely an elite defender but no way is he a GOAT defender..
I'm sure the Celtics [ECSF] and Pistons [ECF] (both swept by NJ on their way to the Finals) beg to differ. And let's not act like they had a terrible season...they were the #2 seed in the East.

[millwad]

I'm sure the Celtics [ECSF] and Pistons [ECF] (both swept by NJ on their way to the Finals) beg to differ. And let's not act like they had a terrible season...they were the #2 seed in the East.

Which only proves how weak the eastern conference was..
While the western had 6 teams over 50, the east only had 1 and we all know that the Spurs and Duncan were lucky that Dirk went down in the series against them.

And the '03 Pistons, haha, that team were no where close as good as their team who later became champs. They had a freaking 36 year old Clifford Robinson starting and a 34 year old Michael Curry starting.

And the Celtics were garbage as well, a team who had starters like Eric Williams, Tony Delk and Tony Battie along with PP and Walker.

WEAK..

[ninephive]

Which only proves how weak the eastern conference was..
While the western had 6 teams over 50, the east only had 1 and we all know that the Spurs and Duncan were lucky that Dirk went down in the series against them.

And the '03 Pistons, haha, that team were no where close as good as their team who later became champs. They had a freaking 36 year old Clifford Robinson starting and a 34 year old Michael Curry starting.

And the Celtics were garbage as well, a team who had starters like Eric Williams, Tony Delk and Tony Battie along with PP and Walker.

WEAK..
2003 Pistons: Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace
2003 Celtics: Pierce, Walker

Don't act like those teams were that weak...and NJ SWEPT both of them. All I'm saying is NJ wasn't a bad team...definitely not one of the worst of all time.

[ninephive]

Which only proves how weak the eastern conference was..
While the western had 6 teams over 50, the east only had 1 and we all know that the Spurs and Duncan were lucky that Dirk went down in the series against them.

And the '03 Pistons, haha, that team were no where close as good as their team who later became champs. They had a freaking 36 year old Clifford Robinson starting and a 34 year old Michael Curry starting.

And the Celtics were garbage as well, a team who had starters like Eric Williams, Tony Delk and Tony Battie along with PP and Walker.

WEAK..
Yah, and what's your excuse for them humiliating the 3-peat Lakers on their home court and making them cry that year?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

He hasn't?

[StateOfMind12]

Yeah Duncan had injuries during his career. But if you say Duncan wasn't an elite defender you are mistaken, he was right up there with Big Ben and KG during their defensive primes.

Duncan was definitely an elite defender and he was up there with KG and Ben but I do think he was worse defensively than both of those two.

I just don't think he is GOAT or all-time great defender like some people claim such as this guy tries to claim.


At his peak and in most of his prime, Duncan was goat level defender. Having a DPoY not gonna change that and do not having a DPoY not gonna change that either.

[millwad]

2003 Pistons: Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace
2003 Celtics: Pierce, Walker

Don't act like those teams were that weak...and NJ SWEPT both of them. All I'm saying is NJ wasn't a bad team...definitely not one of the worst of all time.

Yes, the Celtics had PP and Walker, but the rest of their team was garbage and I mean GARBAGE. Eric Williams, Tony Delk, J.R Bremer and Tony Battie had the most starts for that team minus PP and Walker. GARBAGE.

And Pistons were still no where close to that champion team they had, they had ancient Robinson as a starter and Michael Curry as a starter. No Rasheed and rookie Tayshaun Prince who averaged 3 points per game and a terrible bench..

BOTH TEAMS WERE WEAK, AND NETS WAS A TERRIBLE TEAM BY FINALS STANDARD.

[TMT]

I don't see any arguments for Duncan not being one of the GOAT defenders, other than "he wasn't as good as Kg, Ben". Can someone try to elaborate?

[ninephive]

Yes, the Celtics had PP and Walker, but the rest of their team was garbage and I mean GARBAGE. Eric Williams, Tony Delk, J.R Bremer and Tony Battie had the most starts for that team minus PP and Walker. GARBAGE.

And Pistons were still no where close to that champion team they had, they had ancient Robinson as a starter and Michael Curry as a starter. No Rasheed and rookie Tayshaun Prince who averaged 3 points per game and a terrible bench..

BOTH TEAMS WERE WEAK, AND NETS WAS A TERRIBLE TEAM BY FINALS STANDARD.
Of course they weren't...unless they would have beat the Nets that year. In which case everyone would have considered their run of the EC even longer. But all of 1 year later they dominate the entire league with the same core. Your logic is circular. There is no way to win...even when you do win (the title).

[Dizzle-2k7]

its common knowledge he was robbed of atleast 2 dpoys


funny he holds the record for most all nba defensive teams (13) :bowdown:

[millwad]

Of course they weren't...unless they would have beat the Nets that year. In which case everyone would have considered their run of the EC even longer. But all of 1 year later they dominate the entire league with the same core. Your logic is circular. There is no way to win...even when you do win (the title).


It's spelled RASHEED WALLACE, you retard.
The same core? Rasheed came along and they got him damn cheap and Tayshaun got the opportunity to be a starter unlike the previous year where he averaged 3 points per game.

So instead of old as Michael Curry and ancient Clifford Robinson they got a fresh Rasheed and a much improved Prince.

[ninephive]

It's spelled RASHEED WALLACE, you retard.
The same core? Rasheed came along and they got him damn cheap and Tayshaun got the opportunity to be a starter unlike the previous year where he averaged 3 points per game.

So instead of old as Michael Curry and ancient Clifford Robinson they got a fresh Rasheed and a much improved Prince.
So getting Sheed and starting Tayshaun takes them from getting swept by a "bad" team to destroying a great team in the Finals? I mean, I remember when the Spurs were sweeping Sheed's Blazers a few years earlier, so come on. Let's not get crazy.

[Odinn]

Why every one mentions how weak was 2003 Nets? They were better than 2001 Sixers and 2002 Nets.

[millwad]

So getting Sheed and starting Tayshaun takes them from getting swept by a "bad" team to destroying a great team in the Finals? I mean, I remember when the Spurs were sweeping Sheed's Blazers a few years earlier, so come on. Let's not get crazy.

Wow, you're stupid.
Getting Sheed for basically nothing and getting a MUCH improved Tayshaun to start is a huge difference comparing to 1 year earlier when they had freaking 36 year old Cliff Robinson and 34 year old Michael Curry as starters..

Why is that so hard to get?

[Whoah10115]

The Nets were a good team in 03, but saying they were better than the 01 Sixers and 02 Nets isn't saying much. It's an example of how truly great a player Jason Kidd is. Also, Byron Scott is a terrific coach, and they were on their way to being better (should have re-signed Martin and let go of Jefferson...with Vince Carter...wow).




Anyway, Duncan shouldn't have won the award in any single year, but he is one of the best defenders of the decade and probably top 5 defensive PF's.

[Big#50]

Same reason Pippen didn't have one... No respect.

[Bigsmoke]

Why every one mentions how weak was 2003 Nets? They were better than 2001 Sixers and 2002 Nets.

no way

[Bigsmoke]

Yes, the Celtics had PP and Walker, but the rest of their team was garbage and I mean GARBAGE. Eric Williams, Tony Delk, J.R Bremer and Tony Battie had the most starts for that team minus PP and Walker. GARBAGE.

And Pistons were still no where close to that champion team they had, they had ancient Robinson as a starter and Michael Curry as a starter. No Rasheed and rookie Tayshaun Prince who averaged 3 points per game and a terrible bench..

BOTH TEAMS WERE WEAK, AND NETS WAS A TERRIBLE TEAM BY FINALS STANDARD.

with that said.

Antoine Walker = garbage

[Bigsmoke]

So getting Sheed and starting Tayshaun takes them from getting swept by a "bad" team to destroying a great team in the Finals? I mean, I remember when the Spurs were sweeping Sheed's Blazers a few years earlier, so come on. Let's not get crazy.

lol duh.

Rasheed Wallace was a monster back in the day.

imagine the Thunder right now adding LaMarcus Aldridge for basically nothing.

[ninephive]

lol duh.

Rasheed Wallace was a monster back in the day.

imagine the Thunder right now adding LaMarcus Aldridge for basically nothing.
Haha ok...my favorite memories of Sheed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EL38SKyX8#t=00m45s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdik09RGJI#t=01m14s

[millwad]

Haha ok...my favorite memories of Sheed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EL38SKyX8#t=00m45s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdik09RGJI#t=01m14s

Haha ok...my favorite memory of the Spurs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

[linZoMourning]

Haha ok...my favorite memory of the Spurs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

yah you mad :applause: