Should I take protein supplements every day?

[VishaltotheG]

Even if I don't work out that day?

[Is He Ill]

Yup, it's necessary during recovery.

[B-Low]

I drink a shake after every workout (Sat-Th) and I'll also have one on Friday if I'm overly sore to help repair the muscles.

[highwhey]

make sure you have a solid dietary regime. did you know milk provides an excellent type of protein? it is a mixture of whey and casein--whey being fast acting and casein being slow acting--and research has shown that it is very effective in muscle growth because overall, the protein behaves as a slow acting(again, primarily because of the casein and the fat of whole milk might help slow down absorption as well).

remember, fast acting whey protein oxidizes too quickly, much too quickly to efficiently deliver amino acids to skeletal muscle.

casein is absorbed slower and has continually demonstrated in research that it delivers amino acids to your tissue without suffering such a huge loss in amino acids in the delivery process.

i.e. whey protein is your fattie friend going to get you some cheetos, by the time he arrives, the bag is half empty.

casein protein, the delivery proccess is slower but the bag is intact and sealed.

[LA_Showtime]

It depends on your diet and goals, but obviously it's a good idea to get enough protein to promote muscle growth or muscle retention. I do think bodybuilders are rather extreme, though. While I do think one should aim for .8-1g of protein per LBM, it will hardly kill you if you get less.

Since you've made around thirty threads asking for workout advice, I would assume you don't need a lot, as you're probably somewhat of an amateur.

[LA_Showtime]

make sure you have a solid dietary regime. did you know milk provides an excellent type of protein? it is a mixture of whey and casein--whey being fast acting and casein being slow acting--and research has shown that it is very effective in muscle growth because overall, the protein behaves as a slow acting(again, primarily because of the casein and the fat of whole milk might help slow down absorption as well).

remember, fast acting whey protein oxidizes too quickly, much too quickly to efficiently deliver amino acids to skeletal muscle.

casein is absorbed slower and has continually demonstrated in research that it delivers amino acids to your tissue without suffering such a huge loss in amino acids in the delivery process.

i.e. whey protein is your fattie friend going to get you some cheetos, by the time he arrives, the bag is half empty.

casein protein, the delivery proccess is slower but the bag is intact and sealed.

It doesn't matter what type of protein he gets as long as he gets some.

[LABean]

make sure you have a solid dietary regime. did you know milk provides an excellent type of protein? it is a mixture of whey and casein--whey being fast acting and casein being slow acting--and research has shown that it is very effective in muscle growth because overall, the protein behaves as a slow acting(again, primarily because of the casein and the fat of whole milk might help slow down absorption as well).

remember, fast acting whey protein oxidizes too quickly, much too quickly to efficiently deliver amino acids to skeletal muscle.

casein is absorbed slower and has continually demonstrated in research that it delivers amino acids to your tissue without suffering such a huge loss in amino acids in the delivery process.

i.e. whey protein is your fattie friend going to get you some cheetos, by the time he arrives, the bag is half empty.

casein protein, the delivery proccess is slower but the bag is intact and sealed.
This guy knows how to explain things. :bowdown:
Repped. :cheers:

[highwhey]

It doesn't matter what type of protein he gets as long as he gets some.
true. i'm only trying to educate op. i don't want him to be the type that drinks a protein shake and expects results in spite of not having a proper diet supporting his overall efforts.

a typical shake has what, 20 grams? there's a lot of people that think that is enough.

[VishaltotheG]

true. i'm only trying to educate op. i don't want him to be the type that drinks a protein shake and expects results in spite of not having a proper diet supporting his overall efforts.

a typical shake has what, 20 grams? there's a lot of people that think that is enough.

Nah I know that you need to take in at least 90% of your body weight in protein grams. I'm a little under 140 pounds so 130 grams of protein should do. I just don't know whether it would be too much protein if I don't work out one day.

[QUIZZLE]

It depends...

Just make sure you're getting AT LEAST 1 gram of protein per pound you weight or up to 1.5 gram/pound


For instance, I'm about 180 pounds. So I always try to get a minimal of 180 to 270 per day. If protein helps you achieve that, then yes go for it man.

Just don't listen to those companies that put labels out like "For best results, use four heaping scoops three times daily."

Look, you're trying to get big, not shit out your lungs.

[LA_Showtime]

Nah I know that you need to take in at least 90% of your body weight in protein grams. I'm a little under 140 pounds so 130 grams of protein should do. I just don't know whether it would be too much protein if I don't work out one day.

You don't need that much, especially if you don't even workout. It depends on your muscle base, and from the pictures I've seen of you I seriously doubt you would need more than say 80-90grams (no offense).

[LA_Showtime]

It depends...

Just make sure you're getting AT LEAST 1 gram of protein per pound you weight or up to 1.5 gram/pound


For instance, I'm about 180 pounds. So I always try to get a minimal of 180 to 270 per day. If protein helps you achieve that, then yes go for it man.

Just don't listen to those companies that put labels out like "For best results, use four heaping scoops three times daily."

Look, you're trying to get big, not shit out your lungs.

It's per lean body mass, not weight. And that still seems like a lot. I used to get take in at least 1g per LBM, but I've cut it down to like .7 and I haven't lost any strength. What applies to bodybuilders doesn't to your average Joe who's just looking to get stronger.

[Randy]

It depends...

Just make sure you're getting AT LEAST 1 gram of protein per pound you weight or up to 1.5 gram/pound


For instance, I'm about 180 pounds. So I always try to get a minimal of 180 to 270 per day. If protein helps you achieve that, then yes go for it man.

Just don't listen to those companies that put labels out like "For best results, use four heaping scoops three times daily."

Look, you're trying to get big, not shit out your lungs.

Bodybuilding myth. You are taking in entirely too much protein. Getting 80-110g daily, depending on your size and composition, is more than enough.

[VishaltotheG]

You don't need that much, especially if you don't even workout. It depends on your muscle base, and from the pictures I've seen of you I seriously doubt you would need more than say 80-90grams (no offense).

wtf everyone says 1 gram per pound. Why do the damn facts keep changing?

[VishaltotheG]

Another question. Can I leave protein powder in water overnight? Would it still be good?

[daballa13]

Bodybuilding myth. You are taking in entirely too much protein. Getting 80-110g daily, depending on your size and composition, is more than enough.

YES!! Agreed to the max. **** this protein bullshit, the dumbest ****ing thing I see is when people post their diet plans they make a protein shake one of their main meals. SRSLY? KILL YOURSELF. Real Food Over Everything Bro (RFOEB). Brotein shakes are okay after an intense weight workout but other than that don't waste your money. Again, RFOEB!

[daballa13]

Another question. Can I leave protein powder in water overnight? Would it still be good?

No.

[VishaltotheG]

YES!! Agreed to the max. **** this protein bullshit, the dumbest ****ing thing I see is when people post their diet plans they make a protein shake one of their main meals. SRSLY? KILL YOURSELF. Real Food Over Everything Bro (RFOEB). Brotein shakes are okay after an intense weight workout but other than that don't waste your money. Again, RFOEB!

What the **** man everyone says to take supplements and they're all well-built so what's the problem if you have the means to do it?

[Velocirap31]

What the **** man everyone says to take supplements and they're all well-built so what's the problem if you have the means to do it?

If you have the means to eat high protein food, go for it. Most people can't afford to eat 3 steaks everyday (including me) so protein shakes are a more practical choice.

[bmulls]

What the **** man everyone says to take supplements and they're all well-built so what's the problem if you have the means to do it?

I am a bodybuilder, I have competed in multiple shows. He is 100% correct. Your diet is 75% of the bodybuilding equation, your workout 20% and supplements 5%.

You can't out-supplement or out-train a crappy diet.

Spend your money on quality whole foods. Steaks, chicken, clean carbs, healthy fats (olive oil, natty pb).

[LA_Showtime]

wtf everyone says 1 gram per pound. Why do the damn facts keep changing?

No, it's one gram per LBM, or at least that's what the bodybuilding community says. You still haven't mentioned your goals. Are you cutting or bulking? I know you're talking about rest days, but when it comes to building your body there aren't rest days.

*Does anyone else find it amusing that an aspiring doctor is asking these questions?* :oldlol:

[VishaltotheG]

No, it's one gram per LBM, or at least that's what the bodybuilding community says. You still haven't mentioned your goals. Are you cutting or bulking? I know you're talking about rest days, but when it comes to building your body there aren't rest days.

*Does anyone else find it amusing that an aspiring doctor is asking these questions?* :oldlol:

I'm bulking (trying to go from roughly 135 lbs to around 145-150). And I'm not a medical student yet so I don't actually know these things. Besides, medicine is more about learning than just having knowledge. What is the difference between lean body mass and weight anyway? I know I can look it up but I'm a bit busy studying today :lol

[Velocirap31]

I believe lean body mass is everything you are minus the fat.

[LA_Showtime]

I'm bulking (trying to go from roughly 135 lbs to around 145-150). And I'm not a medical student yet so I don't actually know these things. Besides, medicine is more about learning than just having knowledge. What is the difference between lean body mass and weight anyway? I know I can look it up but I'm a bit busy studying today :lol

I know medical students cover little if anything about nutrition. I just find it amusing.

Muscle. Say you weigh 100 pounds. 20% body fat. 20 fat. 80 muscle. Boom. 80 x .8 = 64 LBM

Too busy studying. Right. You'll make a great med student. :oldlol:

[NotYetGreat]

As much as possible, just eat real, whole foods. Supplements are good, but can be unnecessary. I believe in a good whey + carbs shake after training, but at other times, I don't even look at the tub of powder in the cupboard.

The thing with whey (or any other supplement for that matter, or maybe even food. So depressing :( ) is that most commercial powders are processed HORRIBLY. Heavy metal being mixed in as filler, grain-fed, hormone-injected cows giving shit milk, processing that kills any semblance of nutrition, etc. I used to take these EVERYDAY. I mean, I'd have 2 everyday, one at breakfast and the other as a snack. I think I even had 3 because of my training days. Not only did I feel sick and shitty (literally), but I didn't really see any improvement. I read up and yeah, found out about this stuff, so I limited myself to taking them after sessions. I still may not have the most "Godly" body out here but ever since I did that, I felt much better and my gains came faster, whatever my goal was. Case in point, I think taking in all this powder really adds up over time, and taking them when you don't exactly NEED them can be detrimental to your health. While I DO believe in the benefits of taking whey, I don't want the nasty side-effects, and I think it was for the better. Still, it's up to you, man.

[daballa13]

What the **** man everyone says to take supplements and they're all well-built so what's the problem if you have the means to do it?

Supplements aren't shit. Don't fall for these dumb scams that the bodybuilding industry has put on all these morons. The reason these IFBB Pro's look the way they do isn't because they take *insert any supplement*, its because they take special vitamins if you know what I mean (Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids, GH, Insulin, etc.). If you have the resources to buy a shitload of supplements then you sure as hell have the resources to buy a shitload of good quality foods and make more gains than ever before.

[hateraid]

A lot of interesting answers in this thread. I can say nobody in here is wrong, but there needs to be alot of clarification. I think the main question hasn't been fully answered which is should OP take a protein supplement everyday. My answer is sure and it will help. That being said is does he NEED to take protein supplement everyday. I'll address that tomorrow and hopefully break it down for everybody both on a physical and economical level and hopefully debunk some misconceptions on protein.
By all means leave other personal questions on here and hopefully I can help out on those as well.

[LA_Showtime]

As much as possible, just eat real, whole foods. Supplements are good, but can be unnecessary. I believe in a good whey + carbs shake after training, but at other times, I don't even look at the tub of powder in the cupboard.

The thing with whey (or any other supplement for that matter, or maybe even food. So depressing :( ) is that most commercial powders are processed HORRIBLY. Heavy metal being mixed in as filler, grain-fed, hormone-injected cows giving shit milk, processing that kills any semblance of nutrition, etc. I used to take these EVERYDAY. I mean, I'd have 2 everyday, one at breakfast and the other as a snack. I think I even had 3 because of my training days. Not only did I feel sick and shitty (literally), but I didn't really see any improvement. I read up and yeah, found out about this stuff, so I limited myself to taking them after sessions. I still may not have the most "Godly" body out here but ever since I did that, I felt much better and my gains came faster, whatever my goal was. Case in point, I think taking in all this powder really adds up over time, and taking them when you don't exactly NEED them can be detrimental to your health. While I DO believe in the benefits of taking whey, I don't want the nasty side-effects, and I think it was for the better. Still, it's up to you, man.

You probably felt shitty because of the artificial sweeteners. Most people get headaches because of 'em.

[LA_Showtime]

A lot of interesting answers in this thread. I can say nobody in here is wrong, but there needs to be alot of clarification. I think the main question hasn't been fully answered which is should OP take a protein supplement everyday. My answer is sure and it will help. That being said is does he NEED to take protein supplement everyday. I'll address that tomorrow and hopefully break it down for everybody both on a physical and economical level and hopefully debunk some misconceptions on protein.
By all means leave other personal questions on here and hopefully I can help out on those as well.

I don't really think it matters what he does, because it sounds like he doesn't have a legitimate routine. He hasn't he told us how many days he lifts or how much he lifts right now. Bodybuilding is like 85% diet, but I mean you still have to have a decent routine and know what you're doing. Can't get one without the other.

OP, I would take at least one or two scoops of protein per day. You could take more, obviously, but it really adds up over time, and spending $50 on protein every other month sucks. Try to get your protein from real food.

[dab0yech0]

I play basketball and also workout for size so I try to get at least 180G of protein in my body everyday and close to 2000 calories. (I'm 5'11" 180 and lift and hoop almost everyday except for Sundays).

From what I know, its optimal to take 25-40G of whey isolate after your workouts. Even on Sundays (my rest days) I take about 40G of whey isolate when I wake up. The rest of my protein is all in the food I eat. Before I go to sleep I also drink a casein protein.

There is much more to all this but thats the basics IMO. Lamardoom and lilojmayo can vouch for me when I say I really transformed my body through eating right, supplementing sufficiently, and hard work in the gym.

[Cali Syndicate]

wtf everyone says 1 gram per pound. Why do the damn facts keep changing?

Facts haven't changed. It's the advertising from supplement companies brainwashing gym goers into thinking that they need 1 gram per body pound, which is nothing but gym folklore nonsense, to build super big muscles. People buy into that nonsense and end up stocking up on products like Monster Milk which provides like 50 grams of protein per serving.

Truth is the body NEEDS about .8 grams per kilogram of body weight. That's per kilogram, not LBS. Heavy hitters usually need between 1.2 -1.5 grams per KG. If you are a resistance + cardio training of any kind, figure yourself somewhere in between. Be logical though because while protein is necessary for muscle growth and maintenance, too much can be very taxing on the kidneys. 1 gram per LB is too much.

Also watch the serving sizes. I believe the body can only absorb a certain amount at a time, which is like 25-35 grams for most people, and the rest goes to waste. Wasted protein shake becomes a waste of money.

Fun fact: The supplement industry is hardly regulated by the FDA. This includes vitamins and herbal supplements as well.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Bodybuilding myth. You are taking in entirely too much protein. Getting 80-110g daily, depending on your size and composition, is more than enough.

Bro-science perpetuated by supplement companies.

[NotYetGreat]

Woah, Hateraid with the surprise guest appearance! Nice!


You probably felt shitty because of the artificial sweeteners. Most people get headaches because of 'em.

Well, switching to an "naturally flavored" one helped, but keeping my intake of it to PWO was what cinched it.


]Supplements aren't shit. Don't fall for these dumb scams that the bodybuilding industry has put on all these morons. The reason these IFBB Pro's look the way they do isn't because they take *insert any supplement*, its because they take special vitamins if you know what I mean (Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids, GH, Insulin, etc.). If you have the resources to buy a shitload of supplements then you sure as hell have the resources to buy a shitload of good quality foods and make more gains than ever before.

I agree. I'd load my fridge with steaks, salmon, veggies and fruits sooner stack my kitchen with supps.

[Randy]

Bro-science perpetuated by supplement companies.

Xyience, bro.

[bballnoob]

At your current weight, unless you're very short I'd recommend you getting your calories up to snuff before you think about supplements. As mentioned before, without a proper plan with your diet, there's no point in supplementing something that's already flawed. Again as mentioned, you're probably getting a good intake of protein already if you follow most North American diets anyway. Just get those calories up first.

[Mamba]

i'm 6'3 200 pounds now, 15% body fat and have been training my absolute arse off for the last year.

i load on protein like crazy, but thats mainly because i train until im ready for bed.

but you can not take other peoples words, you need to see what works for you.

I also do not agree its 85% diet into body building. i would say your diet mainly relies on how hard you are pushing yourself in the weights room. for example this is my current chest routine:

start 5pm

4 sets incline dumbell press.
first set 37.5 kg x 12 reps
second set 42.5 kg x 10 reps
third set 50kg x 8 reps (superset with 25kg's x 8 reps)
4th set 50 kg x 6 reps, (superset with 25 kg's x 8 reps)

3 sets flat bench all drop setted
1st set 100 kg's 8 reps
2nd set 120 kg's 8 reps (drop to 50 kgs for 8 reps afterwoods)
3rd set 140 kg's 6 reps (drop to 70 kgs and go until failure)

Pullovers
40 kgs 3 sets of 12

flat bench flies
25 kgs x 8
27.5 kgs x 8
27.5 kgs x 6

Cable's

3 sets supersetted 8 plates each side, 8 reps.

To make sure i have enough protein carbs and such this is my diet, which i have found to work for me very well the last few months

meal 1: 3 weetbix with skim milk, banana, protein shake (30 gram whey protein)
meal 2: 2 sushi rolls, i like salmon avocado best avocado is the good fat you need which also assists in stripping your arteries of saturated fat, and salmon is a lean source of protein, plus the rice is a good amount of carbs, or a roast chicken subway wrap, or roast beef, with no sauce, all salads except for carrots and cucumber (not because of nutrition just because they taste like crap), avocado on it, no salt no pepper
meal 3: protein shake, banana
meal 4: short black coffee (have a short black coffee no sugar, can burn up to 50 calories) and 2 scoops of pure carbohydrates (glyco-maize, about 50 grams)

5pm gym

meal 6: double scoop protein shake
meal 7: either a 400 gram steak, or 2 skinless breast chickens
meal 8: apple, and a cassien protein shake

altogether with this i drink about 4-6 litres of water a day.

and the results over the last 3 months since i started this diet have been absolutely ****ing amazing

rest days im alot lighter on the food considering i don't need so much in my system. i will still try to have 6 meals, but keep the carbs in the mourning and the proteins at night

[LA_Showtime]

I pulled 85% out of my ass, but you aren't going to see results if you don't have your diet on point. He can lift all he wants to, have the perfect routine, but if he's not eating in a surplus then he's not going to gain a noticeable amount of muscle. Same goes for cutting. He won't lose weight if he's not counting calories.

[Mamba]

I pulled 85% out of my ass, but you aren't going to see results if you don't have your diet on point. He can lift all he wants to, have the perfect routine, but if he's not eating in a surplus then he's not going to gain a noticeable amount of muscle. Same goes for cutting. He won't lose weight if he's not counting calories.
oh, its just that i've heard that stat alot of times before lmao and i usually blast people for it.

basically in my diet i digest max 60 grams of fat a day, but only 5 grams being saturated fats, so in the last year i've made a 9 kilo gain which has really really started to show.

[B-Low]

One thing that's important to point out in these threads though, is that there's no SET numbers/supplement amounts/routines/workouts that apply to everyone. These threads about fitness always turn into people going back and forth about what's true and what's not true...the TRUTH is that everyone's body reacts to supplements, food and workouts differently.

Everyone here can obviously say "this is what i do, and these are the results i get"...but nobody can really say "you have to do _____ or _____ will happen". Different bodies, different genetics, different body types, different metabolisms etc make workouts and fitness a hard thing to discuss, especially with people you've never even seen once let alone on a day to day basis

[highwhey]

anxiously waiting for hateraid's response.

dude is mad knowledgeable :cheers:

for OP: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/category/nutrition/protein

check it out^^^ dude is crazy good. i feel like i could be a nutritonist or something(after having extensively read and reflected upon all that info)

[Mamba]

"this is what i do, and these are the results i get"...but nobody can really say "you have to do _____ or _____ will happen". Different bodies, different genetics, different body types, different metabolisms etc make workouts and fitness a hard thing to discuss, especially with people you've never even seen once let alone on a day to day basis
i'm not sure if this was directed at my response but if u read above, i just stated this is what i do, and u need to find your own formula

[pauk]

yes and no...

yes.. if you are not having a good protein diet..

no.. if you are having a good protein diet...

consume somewhere around 0.8-1.5 grams per LBM...

if you have a good protein diet then you wont need any protein supplements at all...

Turkey
Lamb
Chicken
Parmesan Cheeze
Mature Large Beans
Lean Veal Beef
Seeds (sunflower, watermelon, squash, pumpkin seeds and so on)
Fish like Tuna, Anchovies, Salmon, Halibut, Snapper, Tilapia
Fish eggs (Caviar for example)
Lobster
Crab
Tofu
Peas
Beans
Eggs
Milk
Lentils
Pulses
Peanuts
Almonds
Corn

[LA_Showtime]

One thing that's important to point out in these threads though, is that there's no SET numbers/supplement amounts/routines/workouts that apply to everyone. These threads about fitness always turn into people going back and forth about what's true and what's not true...the TRUTH is that everyone's body reacts to supplements, food and workouts differently.

Everyone here can obviously say "this is what i do, and these are the results i get"...but nobody can really say "you have to do _____ or _____ will happen". Different bodies, different genetics, different body types, different metabolisms etc make workouts and fitness a hard thing to discuss, especially with people you've never even seen once let alone on a day to day basis

Well yeah, that's why I try to give basic advice. Lift efficiently (something like starting strength), eat right, count calories, prosper. All that other stuff obviously helps, but you have to build a foundation first.

What's sad is that 95% of these threads are started by lazy, out-of-shape people who just want a quick fix. (not saying that's you, OP)

[hateraid]

Just coming home from a business trip, I'll cover quite a bit so I'll wait until I get home to address some of your posts


Fun fact: The supplement industry is hardly regulated by the FDA. This includes vitamins and herbal supplements as well.

I just wanted to address this statement first. Where is your source of information with this statement? Because this is a very ignorant statement to summarize the whole industry. Not calling you ignorant because I don't think you made this up, but where ever you sourced this is very far off.

If you're referencing this from that clip on Bigger, Faster, Stronger, that's only referencing the jokers who piggyback the bigger companies who in fact do the proper manufacturing. Once they've made their first batch, they take their money and run before the FDA can do a quality control inspection. So these one offs rarely stay in the industry. Not to mention how expensive it is to actually purchase the raw materials to even getting the process going. As an individual who wants to make a quick buck, it's not worth the hassle.

I can vouch for most companies including the one I work for who manufacture products are always under pressure from the FDA. It's a constant struggle having to submit applications to keep our formulas in tact, have them inspect our raw materials, and have to constantly pull products and lose money for FDA not approving even one minuscule aspect of some formulations. In fact, legitimate nutrition companies are the most scrutinized by the FDA. You want to point fingers at companies who don't get hassled at by them? Try hotdog making companies who have approval from the FDA to allow 2% of their product to have rat feces.

So before making unfounded statements please do substantial research

[LA_Showtime]

Just coming home from a business trip, I'll cover quite a bit so I'll wait until I get home to address some of your posts



I just wanted to address this statement first. Where is your source of information with this statement? Because this is a very ignorant statement to summarize the whole industry. Not calling you ignorant because I don't think you made this up, but where ever you sourced this is very far off.

If you're referencing this from that clip on Bigger, Faster, Stronger, that's only referencing the jokers who piggyback the bigger companies who in fact do the proper manufacturing. Once they've made their first batch, they take their money and run before the FDA can do a quality control inspection. So these one offs rarely stay in the industry. Not to mention how expensive it is to actually purchase the raw materials to even getting the process going. As an individual who wants to make a quick buck, it's not worth the hassle.

I can vouch for most companies including the one I work for who manufacture products are always under pressure from the FDA. It's a constant struggle having to submit applications to keep our formulas in tact, have them inspect our raw materials, and have to constantly pull products and lose money for FDA not approving even one minuscule aspect of some formulations. In fact, legitimate nutrition companies are the most scrutinized by the FDA. You want to point fingers at companies who don't get hassled at by them? Try hotdog making companies who have approval from the FDA to allow 2% of their product to have rat feces.

So before making unfounded statements please do substantial research

Actually he's got a point. There are countless products out there that aren't FDA regulated.

[hateraid]

Actually he's got a point. There are countless products out there that aren't FDA regulated.

Please name me one. Because I pretty much know where most reputable companies have their products manufactured. And I garauntee that either their facility or raw material is inspected. I work for Dymatize Nutrition and I know first hand this. If you're talking about those kitchen sink guys, they are pretty much in and out. They're there to make a quick buck and usually don't last more than a few months. You'll never see that product again and you'd be stupid to purchase it from a random website. In fact, as a distributor, you cannot sell to a retailer unless there is some form of FDA instpection. Hell. You can't even purchase the raw material unless it's been GMP or FDA approved

But please name me one product. I'd like to know. Remember, products are approved by FDA, STATEMENTS are not.

[LA_Showtime]

Please name me one. Because I pretty much know where most reputable companies have their products manufactured. And I garauntee that either their facility or raw material is inspected. I work for Dymatize Nutrition and I know first hand this. If you're talking about those kitchen sink guys, they are pretty much in and out. They're there to make a quick buck and usually don't last more than a few months. You'll never see that product again and you'd be stupid to purchase it from a random website. In fact, as a distributor, you cannot sell to a retailer unless there is some form of FDA instpection. Hell. You can't even purchase the raw material unless it's been GMP or FDA approved

But please name me one product. I'd like to know. Remember, products are approved by FDA, STATEMENTS are not.

Cordygen.

[VishaltotheG]

Yeah...just tried to drink a protein mix. I could barely finish half the serving. I think I'll ditch the protein and go for high protein food.

And I do have a workout routine, it's called Starting Strength (MWF)

[hateraid]

Cordygen.

Doesn't need to. It's a non-medicinal herb

[LA_Showtime]

I said there are countless products out there that aren't FDA regulated, you asked me to name one, and I did. Don't really see what else you want me to say.

Still think that guy has a point. Sure, the FDA does a decent job regulating the market, but there are loopholes that allow companies to create and sell legal steroids.

[B-Low]

Yeah...just tried to drink a protein mix. I could barely finish half the serving. I think I'll ditch the protein and go for high protein food.

And I do have a workout routine, it's called Starting Strength (MWF)

What kind did you get? (brand and flavor)?

[hateraid]

I said there are countless products out there that aren't FDA regulated, you asked me to name one, and I did. Don't really see what else you want me to say.

Still think that guy has a point. Sure, the FDA does a decent job regulating the market, but there are loopholes that allow companies to create and sell legal steroids.

And I answered you by telling you that product doesn't qualify to be governed by the FDA, so what do you want me to say? I gave you a legitemate answer.
Does it claim to heal? No. Does it claim to nourish? No. It's a non-medicinal herb, they do not govern those products under FDA

As per "legal" steroids and where are they legally sold? If you're taken in by blanket websites who claim real decca or whatchamahuwee then maybe you should ask a qualified person before shopping those sites. There is no such thing as a "legal" steroid. You can buy names like Anavar, Decca, Arimidex...and trademark it and put it on a product. Doesn't make it that product. It's called marketing.

I think your opinion on what the FDA actually does is a little skued. They deal with food or drugs. Supplement catagory only complies with products that nourish or heal. They also ensure no contaminants and non-toxicity. They ensure what you consume doesn't kill you. They don't deal with sports performance claims. Trust me, I work with this on a daily basis.

[Cali Syndicate]

Just coming home from a business trip, I'll cover quite a bit so I'll wait until I get home to address some of your posts



I just wanted to address this statement first. Where is your source of information with this statement? Because this is a very ignorant statement to summarize the whole industry. Not calling you ignorant because I don't think you made this up, but where ever you sourced this is very far off.

If you're referencing this from that clip on Bigger, Faster, Stronger, that's only referencing the jokers who piggyback the bigger companies who in fact do the proper manufacturing. Once they've made their first batch, they take their money and run before the FDA can do a quality control inspection. So these one offs rarely stay in the industry. Not to mention how expensive it is to actually purchase the raw materials to even getting the process going. As an individual who wants to make a quick buck, it's not worth the hassle.

I can vouch for most companies including the one I work for who manufacture products are always under pressure from the FDA. It's a constant struggle having to submit applications to keep our formulas in tact, have them inspect our raw materials, and have to constantly pull products and lose money for FDA not approving even one minuscule aspect of some formulations. In fact, legitimate nutrition companies are the most scrutinized by the FDA. You want to point fingers at companies who don't get hassled at by them? Try hotdog making companies who have approval from the FDA to allow 2% of their product to have rat feces.

So before making unfounded statements please do substantial research

Maybe "hardly" was a bad choice of words. But if I was to say the FDA strictly regulates supplemental products would from the truth. Maybe they do for some products, but not for the entire industry as a whole. Why? Because the FDA's focus is mainly to determine whether foods and drugs are safe for use and a supplement is neither. However, the FDA does have to deem products safe for use before they can be sold on the market.

Even weight loss products have to be FDA approved but does that really mean they are safe? How long has HCG been allowed as a safe ingredient for dietary weight loss before the FDA finally intervened deeming HCG unsafe? Usually the FDA will approve many products, but only really get involved when the products ends up causing adverse health effects. FDA even used to approve products containing Ephedra, which is a herb, well in constraints of the FDA. Dietary and many herbal products are obviously different than nutritional supplements but I'm just making a point with FDA approval.

But omega-3 pill are supplements right? The FDA may operate within the fish industry to determine the fish being sold for public consumption does not exceed the limits for mercury PPM, but the FDA does not regulate the same strict regulations with pills.

Vitamins post how they provide 100% for this and that but research has shown how many vitamins on the market do not provide 100% bio-availability. But the FDA doesn't force companies to remove their claims, however FDA keeps real close knits for foods to be labeled an "excellent source of (whatever vitamin)."

I'm glad your company and what ever companies you vouch for have such strict ties in trying to make sure the products are safe for the public. If you vouch for them, I will take your word for it. I'm sure many companies aren't out to screw over the public just to make a dollar. However there is no way you can vouch for the FDA. I don't trust the FDA nearly as much I should.

And I never seen "Bigger, Faster, Stronger." Never even heard of it.

[LA_Showtime]

And I answered you by telling you that product doesn't qualify to be governed by the FDA, so what do you want me to say? I gave you a legitemate answer.
Does it claim to heal? No. Does it claim to nourish? No. It's a non-medicinal herb, they do not govern those products under FDA

As per "legal" steroids and where are they legally sold? If you're taken in by blanket websites who claim real decca or whatchamahuwee then maybe you should ask a qualified person before shopping those sites. There is no such thing as a "legal" steroid. You can buy names like Anavar, Decca, Arimidex...and trademark it and put it on a product. Doesn't make it that product. It's called marketing.

I think your opinion on what the FDA actually does is a little skued. They deal with food or drugs. Supplement catagory only complies with products that nourish or heal. They also ensure no contaminants and non-toxicity. They ensure what you consume doesn't kill you. They don't deal with sports performance claims. Trust me, I work with this on a daily basis.

No, there are plenty of LEGAL steroids out there. Haven't you ever heard of Halodrol, Beastdrol, etc.?

[hateraid]

Maybe "hardly" was a bad choice of words. But if I was to say the FDA strictly regulates supplemental products would from the truth. Maybe they do for some products, but not for the entire industry as a whole. Why? Because the FDA's focus is mainly to determine whether foods and drugs are safe for use and a supplement is neither. However, the FDA does have to deem products safe for use before they can be sold on the market.

They have a hand in what dosage is safe for human consumption and toxicity levels, as well contamination in the foods and what levels. But like any product in the world humans can be prone to overcomsuption. The onus is on the person to use it responsibly.


Even weight loss products have to be FDA approved but does that really mean they are safe? How long has HCG been allowed as a safe ingredient for dietary weight loss before the FDA finally intervened deeming HCG unsafe? Usually the FDA will approve many products, but only really get involved when the products ends up causing adverse health effects. FDA even used to approve products containing Ephedra, which is a herb, well in constraints of the FDA. Dietary and many herbal products are obviously different than nutritional supplements but I'm just making a point with FDA approval.
Because some of the ingredients used have claims to support blood sugar, control obesity, so they determine if it is effective and what are the dosage safe for human consumption. But again, like I mentioned above, the onus is on the person to read instructions and taken responsibly.
HGC I can understand because there is no substantial clinical human data that it supports weight loss.
As for Ephedrine, Dosages in old formulas I will say were safe if used properly and instructions were followed. They HAD to regulate it because this was one of the most abused products in the industry. Not because it was unsafe, but people are stupid. Ephedrine can be sold as a bronchodiolator, and it's safe and effective at an 8mg dosage. Who buys it? The lazy diet crowd.
So Fatty McNacy is desperately trying to lose weight. She buys Xenadrine. She reads take 2 pills 3 times a day. Nothing works after 3 months. What does Nancy do? You got it. Take more.
Every pill on the market will instruct the proper dosage, and under those dosages I will vouch ARE safe if consumed in that controlled enviroment unless otherwise stated (heart conditions, blood thinning meds) but listens when your fat. Who gets blamed? We do.


But omega-3 pill are supplements right? The FDA may operate within the fish industry to determine the fish being sold for public consumption does not exceed the limits for mercury PPM, but the FDA does not regulate the same strict regulations with pills.

Yes they are a supplement. As a food it's regulated by FDA, raw material is inspected, but from there it's inspected by the GMP. As per raw material, it depends on where it's purchased. Anything coming from outside NA will be inspected.



Vitamins post how they provide 100% for this and that but research has shown how many vitamins on the market do not provide 100% bio-availability. But the FDA doesn't force companies to remove their claims, however FDA keeps real close knits for foods to be labeled an "excellent source of (whatever vitamin)."

When I worked for GNC a random 3rd party group actually tested for bioavalability, and we exceeded 100% on all accounts, as will most vitamins. What's different is what your body will actually absord plus what the RDA is. No vitamin will ever give you the recommeded RDA, as it should, nor should people depend on the RDA. But in order to sell the product it's got to be either, binded to a food molecule, standerdized, or synthesized. Most vitamins are.



I'm glad your company and what ever companies you vouch for have such strict ties in trying to make sure the products are safe for the public. If you vouch for them, I will take your word for it. I'm sure many companies aren't out to screw over the public just to make a dollar. However there is no way you can vouch for the FDA. I don't trust the FDA nearly as much I should.

My company has to submit a form every year to be certified FDA approved (Check out Dymatize Nutrition). It's actually on every label. Most of our competative companies buy their raw material from the same sources is why I can vouch.
And I agree with you, I don't trust the FDA myself. That's why I made the point about hotdog factories. You can have 2% fecal matter in hot dogs, but we can't make a diet pill with ephedrine. What's safer, eating a plant or eating sh!T?

:biggums: <--- (I love that BTW :oldlol: )


And I never seen "Bigger, Faster, Stronger." Never even heard of it.

It's a documentary trying to debunk the supplement industry. Alot is very true, but alot was exaggerated.

[hateraid]

No, there are plenty of LEGAL steroids out there. Haven't you ever heard of Halodrol, Beastdrol, etc.?

Halodrol by Gaspari? That's no steroid. It's a product called arachadonic acid. It has properties to boost test, but it's no steroid. Just way blown out advertising

Beastdrol is one of those blanket websites I'm talking about that make these outrageous falsified claims.
Plus why buy oral PHP? Get the REAL stuff and inject! It's loads loads more effective, safer, and does not pollute the liver (not that I recommend it)

[hateraid]

Lol, I was gonna get to the protein topic but the 2 cali guys got me pooped. I just spent 2 weeks on the road training accounts. I actually just want to take a break from talking supps for a night. I'm going to bed, but will answer OP's concerns in the morning.

[bmulls]

There are a lot of scam products out there (virtually everything by Gaspari), but there are also legitimate anabolic steroids being sold as "prohormones".

Superdrol and all of it's clones is the most common. Superdrol is nothing more than methylated masteron, an injectable steroid which they've made into an oral.

The problem is you get high school kids buying these and using them for far too long and without any post cycle therapy, or some crap over the counter PCT. They think because they bought the shit at GNC that it must not be dangerous when in reality they are taking designer steroids.

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/store/dynamic-formulas-m-stane.html

Here's one that I know to be legitimate.

[hateraid]

There are a lot of scam products out there (virtually everything by Gaspari), but there are also legitimate anabolic steroids being sold as "prohormones".

Superdrol and all of it's clones is the most common. Superdrol is nothing more than methylated masteron, an injectable steroid which they've made into an oral.

The problem is you get high school kids buying these and using them for far too long and without any post cycle therapy, or some crap over the counter PCT. They think because they bought the shit at GNC that it must not be dangerous when in reality they are taking designer steroids.

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/store/dynamic-formulas-m-stane.html

Here's one that I know to be legitimate.

How do you know their authenticity?
Alot of sites like this do alot of baits and switches. That's why I call them blanket sites. They cover the truth

[NotYetGreat]

I think it's time to get back to the protein. :oldlol:

I guess, bottomline, yes, you COULD take protein supplements to add up extra calories and get much-needed protein in your daily intake, but you COULD also take it from real food. I'd personally go with the latter. Sure, cooking up 4-5 eggs is pretty darn inconvenient compared to mixing a scoop of whey with some milk (Side-note: Adding cinnamon in your PWO shakes can be a good trick to use as they help shuttle glycogen into your muscles and drop your blood sugar), but personally, I think it's the healthier choice. Not saying you don't need the extra protein, but in times where you could go with the real thing, go with the real thing. It's pretty much convenience versus added nutrition. Pick your poison.

[bmulls]

How do you know their authenticity?
Alot of sites like this do alot of baits and switches. That's why I call them blanket sites. They cover the truth

I know that product to be legit because I've taken it, I don't know about that website though. I bought mine off of Amazon, but I couldn't find it on there again.

I've also done 3 cycles of the real thing and I can tell you 30mg of Superdrol is easily stronger than 50mg of Dbol.

Anyways back to protein...I take 2 scoops after I workout with some fast carbs (rice cakes or white bread). The rest of my protein is from food.

Besides prohormones/steroids, the only supplements that I believe are worth the money are protein, creatine, fish oil and multivitamin. The rest is junk. You could also get a preworkout, but understand that it is just a mental boost and it's not going to help you build muscle.

[hateraid]

I think it's time to get back to the protein. :oldlol:

I guess, bottomline, yes, you COULD take protein supplements to add up extra calories and get much-needed protein in your daily intake, but you COULD also take it from real food. I'd personally go with the latter. Sure, cooking up 4-5 eggs is pretty darn inconvenient compared to mixing a scoop of whey with some milk (Side-note: Adding cinnamon in your PWO shakes can be a good trick to use as they help shuttle glycogen into your muscles and drop your blood sugar), but personally, I think it's the healthier choice. Not saying you don't need the extra protein, but in times where you could go with the real thing, go with the real thing. It's pretty much convenience versus added nutrition. Pick your poison.

Lol, back to protein, I working on it right now, post coming in a bit...

[hateraid]

Even if I don't work out that day?

Lol, back to protein.

So the question is here should he take protein shakes even when not working out?

I've read every post and taken everything into consideration, so the first thing I'll do is debunk some of the myths that have taken place and make everything clearer for you guys to make an educated decision.

First of all I hear the term "broscience". Personally I think it's a term thrown around by those who are ignorant to the industry and don't fully understand the concepts. They use products with certain expectations, don't get the results, then chalk it up to "broscience". Let's me ask you guys this, what do you think it is that protein supplements actually do? Where do you think it comes from? Let me break it down simply:

When it comes to measuring gram per gram, protein is protein. Whey protein is no different from any other source of protein in the sense that it's comprised of the same 20 amino acids and per gram has the same calorie value. So meaning 1 gram of protein, wheter it's from whey, chicken, fish, beef....it's always going to be 4 calories. This is not to say all boiavailabilty is equal. All protein will have different bioavailabilty, but when stating things like how much grams per pounds of bodyweight it's irrelevant.

It possesses no super performance quality, nor does it claim to. So to you broscientists, why so down on whey? Where do you think it comes from? Whey comes from milk. It's the byproduct of seperating the curds from milk. Milk is a food. So are you saying food doesn't work? Bottom line, whey is food! If you put a steak in a blender, filtered out all the non-protein byproducts (which we've already done with our product Primal :D ), your body will do the same thing to it as it does to whey. Digest it, then try to string it back up into their amino acid chains. You're body doesn't say, this is beef, this is chicken, this is whey, it says, this is protein.

So why take whey supplements? Because whey in fact is the most complete protein out there. There is no other protein out there that has 100% or more bioavalabity for humans with all amino acids. It has a BV score of 100, to put in perspective, egg is the second closest and it's score is between 88-100. Beef is at 80. Whey is also predigested so it'll take less time to assimilate it. It may take eating 20 grams of beef 1 hour to digest where as less than half an hour for a protein supplement to fully digest. Which do you think is better after a hard training day with severely broken down muscle?

I hear it's a waste of money. Factor this, a 14gr can of tuna is about a buck. A serving of whey protein is genarally 25 grams. So 2 cans of tuna is about 1 serving of whey protein. There are generally 25 servings in a tub of protein. That's compared to about 45 cans of tuna (give or take). That's 45 bucks of tuna. You can buy a tub of protein for 25 bucks. That's a buck a serving. So what's actually cheaper?
Into more perspective, an extra lagre egg only has 8 grams of protein.
A Chicken breast has 23 grams. Also take into account the amount of time for preperation, convenience, and storage. So what's more effective?

This is not to say take only protein shakes. I suggest usually up to 30% of your diet maybe, but definately live off of whole foods. Use shakes as primarily a post workout or to fill the gaps where you don't get enough. Hope that helps.

[hateraid]

wtf everyone says 1 gram per pound. Why do the damn facts keep changing?

Nobody is wrong in there assesments of how much to take. Because there hasn't been 1 truly defined set requirement. My University of Florida textbook says the body only really needs .4 grams per KG of body weight. Multiply that by 2.2 to convert to pounds. So for a 220 pound man only needs 80 grams of protein. I advocate 1 gram per pound but only in certain circumstances. It's not going to harm you. In fact it's a good method of leaning out and maintaining size. I know alot of competative BB that take up to 1.5 grams per pound. Mind you they are anabolic machines so they can sustain that.

What's most important is WHEN as opposed to how much.
You should take protein during your most catabolic state, which means when your muscle is most prone to breakdown. So when you wake up, and after intense exercise. A little before bed always helps.
As for daily consumption, I suggest just to eat clean, and don't go hungry. Eat something every 3-4 hours.

[hateraid]

As much as possible, just eat real, whole foods. Supplements are good, but can be unnecessary. I believe in a good whey + carbs shake after training, but at other times, I don't even look at the tub of powder in the cupboard.

The thing with whey (or any other supplement for that matter, or maybe even food. So depressing :( ) is that most commercial powders are processed HORRIBLY. Heavy metal being mixed in as filler, grain-fed, hormone-injected cows giving shit milk, processing that kills any semblance of nutrition, etc. I used to take these EVERYDAY. I mean, I'd have 2 everyday, one at breakfast and the other as a snack. I think I even had 3 because of my training days. Not only did I feel sick and shitty (literally), but I didn't really see any improvement. I read up and yeah, found out about this stuff, so I limited myself to taking them after sessions. I still may not have the most "Godly" body out here but ever since I did that, I felt much better and my gains came faster, whatever my goal was. Case in point, I think taking in all this powder really adds up over time, and taking them when you don't exactly NEED them can be detrimental to your health. While I DO believe in the benefits of taking whey, I don't want the nasty side-effects, and I think it was for the better. Still, it's up to you, man.


Alot of raw material protein is actually very clean and are measured for their protein fratctions. If you're referring to milk in general than yes, but whey producing cows aren't the same cows. Some of the raw materials come from the cleanest cows in the world. Raw materials from New Zealand cows that have never been exposed to any chemicals, are pasture fed, and have never been exposed to any animal disease.
If anything I'd be more worried about the hormaone injected steaks and chicken, the high levels of mercury in your tuna, the GMO everything in the supermarket before I'd point the finger at protein supplements.

If you have concerns, Dymatize protein is GMP and NSF certified to be free of drugs and contaminents, and also is an FDA inspected facility. Hope that helps.

[hateraid]

Supplements aren't shit. Don't fall for these dumb scams that the bodybuilding industry has put on all these morons. The reason these IFBB Pro's look the way they do isn't because they take *insert any supplement*, its because they take special vitamins if you know what I mean (Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids, GH, Insulin, etc.). If you have the resources to buy a shitload of supplements then you sure as hell have the resources to buy a shitload of good quality foods and make more gains than ever before.

That's a very ignorant statement. I'm friends with IFBB pros and they attribute everything to diet and training first. They aren't preaching that supplements are the answer, but they are saying they will help. They are also not claiming that it made them the way they are, but I garauntee they do take a wide variety of supplements outside of their PEDs.

BTW, bodybuilders are among the best in the world in terms of discipline and clean eating and advocate things like fish oils and vitamins.

[Mamba]

:bowdown: hateraid's post.

future rep. definitely future rep

[hateraid]

One thing that's important to point out in these threads though, is that there's no SET numbers/supplement amounts/routines/workouts that apply to everyone. These threads about fitness always turn into people going back and forth about what's true and what's not true...the TRUTH is that everyone's body reacts to supplements, food and workouts differently.

Everyone here can obviously say "this is what i do, and these are the results i get"...but nobody can really say "you have to do _____ or _____ will happen". Different bodies, different genetics, different body types, different metabolisms etc make workouts and fitness a hard thing to discuss, especially with people you've never even seen once let alone on a day to day basis


:applause:
The most applicable answer to the OP.
The truth is EVERY supplement works, not evry PERSON works.

Here's a comparison. If you typed in 1+1 in a computer every computer in the world will decipher it as 2. The difference is the speed it will compute it at. That's the same for supplements. It will do the same for everybody, it's a matter of how long it will process it. The biggest determining factor, and this applies to the broscientists, is the EXPECTATIONS. Because it didn't give them the results they want, it doesn't work. That's not accountablity. As somebody said, supplements account for 5% of the end result. So if you don't get the results you'll blame the 5%? That's broscience.

[hateraid]

:bowdown: hateraid's post.

future rep. definitely future rep

Haha, appreciate it bro, but what's future rep?

[hateraid]

Facts haven't changed. It's the advertising from supplement companies brainwashing gym goers into thinking that they need 1 gram per body pound, which is nothing but gym folklore nonsense, to build super big muscles. People buy into that nonsense and end up stocking up on products like Monster Milk which provides like 50 grams of protein per serving.

Truth is the body NEEDS about .8 grams per kilogram of body weight. That's per kilogram, not LBS. Heavy hitters usually need between 1.2 -1.5 grams per KG. If you are a resistance + cardio training of any kind, figure yourself somewhere in between. Be logical though because while protein is necessary for muscle growth and maintenance, too much can be very taxing on the kidneys. 1 gram per LB is too much.



That kinda contradict because to convert KG to LB you multiply by 2.2. That would make that 2.64gr per KG, would it not?



Also watch the serving sizes. I believe the body can only absorb a certain amount at a time, which is like 25-35 grams for most people, and the rest goes to waste. Wasted protein shake becomes a waste of money.

Fun fact: The supplement industry is hardly regulated by the FDA. This includes vitamins and herbal supplements as well.

I'll agree that exceeding that is waste, but it is all varient on the rate of absorption. How doyou slow absoption? Add more calories and fibre. So throwing in some fresh berries, bananas, flax seed oil, hemp seeds would make that 35gr+ of protein fully usable and keep you in a longer anabolic state.

[LA_Showtime]

You can take all your protein at once. You don't have to spread it out over the day. If that were the case, it would be really hard to get fat. How would that even work? Your body just shits out the excess protein and you don't absorb the calories?

[hateraid]

You can take all your protein at once. You don't have to spread it out over the day. If that were the case, it would be really hard to get fat. How would that even work? Your body just shits out the excess protein and you don't absorb the calories?

Well yeah, you technically shitt it out since your bowel is in constant flow. Or if you take excess of what your body can naturally process. You could take something like a cassein which curdles in your stomach, but that just takes away the joys of eating and exercising your pancreas.

Note, protein does not convert to fat. Excess carbs do. Protein cannot be converted to glucose.

[LA_Showtime]

Well yeah, you technically shitt it out since your bowel is in constant flow. Or if you take excess of what your body can naturally process. You could take something like a cassein which curdles in your stomach, but that just takes away the joys of eating and exercising your pancreas.

Note, protein does not convert to fat. Excess carbs do. Protein cannot be converted to glucose.

No, excess carbohydrates do not convert to fat. You aren't going to get fat unless you're eating excess calories. Your weight - either maintaining, losing, or gaining - is determined by calories in-calories out.

If you were to gain any weight from eating an exorbitant amount of carbohydrates, it would be a combination of water weight and glycogen. But if you eat 2,000 calories of bread, and your maintenance is 2,500 calories, you will not gain fat.

If you eat 100 grams of protein in one sitting, you are going to feel very, very full, but your body will nonetheless digest it and you'll reap whatever benefits you get from eating said protein. The body doesn't have a protein quota.

[hateraid]

No, excess carbohydrates do not convert to fat. You aren't going to get fat unless you're eating excess calories. Your weight - either maintaining, losing, or gaining - is determined by calories in-calories out.

If you were to gain any weight from eating an exorbitant amount of carbohydrates, it would be a combination of water weight and glycogen. But if you eat 2,000 calories of bread, and your maintenance is 2,500 calories, you will not gain fat.

If you eat 100 grams of protein in one sitting, you are going to feel very, very full, but your body will nonetheless digest it and you'll reap whatever benefits you get from eating said protein. The body doesn't have a protein quota.

I wish I could find my textbook on-line but I'll quote another source:


When a high dietary protein intake is consumed, there is an increase in urea excretion, which suggests that amino acid oxidation is increased.[17] High levels of protein intake increase the activity of branched-chain ketoacid dehydrogenase.[17] As a result, oxidation is facilitated, and the amino group of the amino acid is excreted to the liver.[17] This process suggests that excess protein consumption results in protein oxidation and that the protein is excreted.[17] The body is unable to store excess protein.[17][22] Protein is digested into amino acids, which enter the bloodstream. Excess amino acids are converted to other usable molecules by the liver in a process called deamination. Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle.

Maybe I shouldn't have said does not, but very little will convert to glucose, but it's not substantial to increase your BFI. It converts to ammonia first, then ketones, then glucose. But people in general do not consume that much for it to be used as glucose and generally consume enough carbs for your body to convert that as a first option as opposed to looking for amino acids. You'd have to eat extremely low carbs and etremely high protein to do so, and you'd have to be bone thin.
I've never in my life seen somebody who eats excessive lean protein and moderate quality carbs to be fat. They've always appeared to be moderate to muscular proportions.

[LA_Showtime]

So again, it ultimately comes down to calories in vs. calories out. Excess protein won't make you fat, and neither will excess carbohydrates. But if you're eating over maintenance calories, then you'll gain weight. It's pretty simply really.

It'd be nice if more people could think about it in simpler terms. Losing weight wouldn't sound nearly as bad. People who try and cut out carbohydrates, fast food, junk food, etc. are making their lives harder than it has to be, as they would reap the same benefits from simply eating in moderation.

You ever read an article stating that low-carb dieters have to consume more protein than people on "normal" diets? Has to do with carbohydrates helping the process along or something.

[LA_Showtime]

That's a very ignorant statement. I'm friends with IFBB pros and they attribute everything to diet and training first. They aren't preaching that supplements are the answer, but they are saying they will help. They are also not claiming that it made them the way they are, but I garauntee they do take a wide variety of supplements outside of their PEDs.

BTW, bodybuilders are among the best in the world in terms of discipline and clean eating and advocate things like fish oils and vitamins.

The new bodybuilding term is "IIFYM," which would hardly promote "clean" eating. I guess it depends what you mean by clean. If it's the 500-calorie rule then yeah, but if you're talking about vegetables, fruits, complex-carbohydrates... nah.

[bmulls]

Yes, if you are strictly concerned with weight then calories in vs. calories out is all you need to know.

However, most everybody is concerned with BODY COMPOSITION. Ie, lowering body fat % and increasing muscle mass.

To achieve ideal body comp, you need to understand that carbs spike your insulin and thus you should be careful with your carbohydrate intake. On one hand, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our bodies. You can't gain an ounce of muscle without insulin. On the other hand, insulin causes your fat cells to store fat.

I try to eat carbs only a few times during the day:
1) For breakfast, when your cells are naturally the most insulin sensitive and to halt the catabolic state your body is in from sleeping.
2) Complex carbs before weight lifting and simple carbs during weight lifting to ensure your body doesn't break your muscle for energy. This is where I consume the majority of my carbs.
3) Simple carbs after lifting with a protein shake, to shuttle the protein into the muscle immediately.

No carbs before bed, try to avoid mixing carbs and fats in the same meal.

[LA_Showtime]

Yes, if you are strictly concerned with weight then calories in vs. calories out is all you need to know.

However, most everybody is concerned with BODY COMPOSITION. Ie, lowering body fat % and increasing muscle mass.

To achieve ideal body comp, you need to understand that carbs spike your insulin and thus you should be careful with your carbohydrate intake. On one hand, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our bodies. You can't gain an ounce of muscle without insulin. On the other hand, insulin causes your fat cells to store fat.

I try to eat carbs only a few times during the day:
1) For breakfast, when your cells are naturally the most insulin sensitive and to halt the catabolic state your body is in from sleeping.
2) Complex carbs before weight lifting and simple carbs during weight lifting to ensure your body doesn't break your muscle for energy. This is where I consume the majority of my carbs.
3) Simple carbs after lifting with a protein shake, to shuttle the protein into the muscle immediately.

No carbs before bed, try to avoid mixing carbs and fats in the same meal.

That's all a bunch of bullshit. I don't know where you got your information wrong but it's wrong.

1. Calories in vs. calories out. Determined by whether you're cutting, bulking, recomping, or maintaining.

2. Get enough protein. Depends on individual, but between .6-1.2 of LBM.

3. Lift.

[bmulls]

How many of the IIFYM kids are actually impressive looking? Not many.

[LA_Showtime]

How many of the IIFYM kids are actually impressive looking? Not many.

Have you never been on the bodybuilding forums? You sound like you pulled that last comment out of your ass. I'm not saying what you're doing won't work, but to act like eating carbs at night is a bad thing or w/e is a joke.

[hateraid]

The new bodybuilding term is "IIFYM," which would hardly promote "clean" eating. I guess it depends what you mean by clean. If it's the 500-calorie rule then yeah, but if you're talking about vegetables, fruits, complex-carbohydrates... nah.

I have 3 collegues who compete, one of which who just did the Arnold's, one who we sponsor which is a 2-time Ms.O, and one who's an up and comer in the pro cuircit. They eat 3 months out up until competition sufficient fibre(yams, dates..), vegetables (steamed broccolli, spinach...), and quality protein (tilapia, bison meat...). Plus their EFA's and multis. They've just reduced any refined sugar, startches, and sodium. They ate quite frequently as well. In fact they ate as frequently as I did, they only time that drastically changed their diet was a couple of weeks out when they needed to lean out. That's as disciplined and healthy as I've ever seen.

As well as when we do expos or sit and signs our athletes don't just sit there and tell people take Xpand or other supps. The first thing they preach is diet all the way. They are extremely helpful and honest. The fact that they're in our ads, well, that's called advertising.

[bmulls]

Have you never been on the bodybuilding forums? You sound like you pulled that last comment out of your ass. I'm not saying what you're doing won't work, but to act like eating carbs at night is a bad thing or w/e is a joke.

http://i40.tinypic.com/rvc3lw.jpg

This is me so you know I'm not talking out my ass.

I was gonna say I can tell you read a lot of BB.com...I have heard of IIFYM a lot lately and I just don't buy it. Bodybuilders have been doing it the way I described for decades.

[NotYetGreat]

I beg to differ on some points.

I don't think calories in vs calories out ALWAYS works. Undeniably, it does most of the time, but I've been in a deficit stage and I gained some muscle, albeit small amounts. I've also read that it IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit. Intermittent fasters are one example. It may not happen all the time, but the increased levels of growth hormone and the "cleaning" effect of detoxification that this type of eating does creates an anabolic environment for your body and therefore it would not be uncommon to gain some muscle while on it. Cases of overeating WHEN finally in the eating stage of the day can be considered, but this stuff still happens even if one does follow an IF style diet strictly. This is all coming from stuff I've read from Ori Hofmekler's "Warrior Diet" & "Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat" (Pretty good resources for those interested. Could find it in PDF format around here. PM me if interested) and some Brad Pilon articles (author of "Eat Stop Eat").

And I do believe macronutrient partitioning does matter. Yeah yeah, even the "Twinkie Diet" could help you lose weight if in a state of caloric inadequacy, but you have to take into account body composition after that. You could have lost weight, but lost muscle and gained fat. To say that you won't get fat as long as you're in a deficit may not be totally true.

These are all just views from days worth of reading throughout the last couple of years. Heck, I probably read about this shizz too much (should probably go read my Encyclopedia of Educational Psychology now haha), but yeah, if any of you guys have legit sources to share, I'd love to be schooled. :cheers:


Alot of raw material protein is actually very clean and are measured for their protein fratctions. If you're referring to milk in general than yes, but whey producing cows aren't the same cows. Some of the raw materials come from the cleanest cows in the world. Raw materials from New Zealand cows that have never been exposed to any chemicals, are pasture fed, and have never been exposed to any animal disease.
If anything I'd be more worried about the hormaone injected steaks and chicken, the high levels of mercury in your tuna, the GMO everything in the supermarket before I'd point the finger at protein supplements.

If you have concerns, Dymatize protein is GMP and NSF certified to be free of drugs and contaminents, and also is an FDA inspected facility. Hope that helps.

Of course. With all the farm-raised and grain-fed bull-crap around. Needless to say that with that, I can't help but remain skeptical. I know you've said your word, but I shall stick by whey not being produced the same everywhere. I remember you said that most of the raw material comes from the same supply, but I there has to be some differences with the way they are processed, and while the raw material may be good, the processing might be the one actually ruining the product. And thanks for the tip. ALways thought you were still with GNC. I've been using ON ever since (the natural line. And just in case, yes, I also AM pretty skeptical about the "authenticity" of it). I haven't had any problems with it, but a change would be good. Dymatize is pretty cheap here online, plus I've been hearing it tastes pretty good. Might try some after I finish my tub. What sweeteners do you guys use?

[hateraid]

Yes, if you are strictly concerned with weight then calories in vs. calories out is all you need to know.
However, most everybody is concerned with BODY COMPOSITION. Ie, lowering body fat % and increasing muscle mass.

To achieve ideal body comp, you need to understand that carbs spike your insulin and thus you should be careful with your carbohydrate intake. On one hand, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our bodies. You can't gain an ounce of muscle without insulin. On the other hand, insulin causes your fat cells to store fat.

I try to eat carbs only a few times during the day:
1) For breakfast, when your cells are naturally the most insulin sensitive and to halt the catabolic state your body is in from sleeping.
2) Complex carbs before weight lifting and simple carbs during weight lifting to ensure your body doesn't break your muscle for energy. This is where I consume the majority of my carbs.
3) Simple carbs after lifting with a protein shake, to shuttle the protein into the muscle immediately.

No carbs before bed, try to avoid mixing carbs and fats in the same meal.

I 100% agree. In essence yes, creating a calorie defecit or overload will flucuate weight, but ideally you want to control insulin and metobolism.

The onlly point I don't agree with is complex carbs before a weight lifting. The last thing you want is your body to work on digesting while training. This will fatigue you out even quicker. Simple carbs pre, intra, and post.
Otherwise well written post

[hateraid]

I beg to differ on some points.

I don't think calories in vs calories out ALWAYS works. Undeniably, it does most of the time, but I've been in a deficit stage and I gained some muscle, albeit small amounts. I've also read that it IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit. Intermittent fasters are one example. It may not happen all the time, but the increased levels of growth hormone and the "cleaning" effect of detoxification that this type of eating does creates an anabolic environment for your body and therefore it would not be uncommon to gain some muscle while on it. Cases of overeating WHEN finally in the eating stage of the day can be considered, but this stuff still happens even if one does follow an IF style diet strictly. This is all coming from stuff I've read from Ori Hofmekler's "Warrior Diet" & "Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat" (Pretty good resources for those interested. Could find it in PDF format around here. PM me if interested) and some Brad Pilon articles (author of "Eat Stop Eat").

And I do believe macronutrient partitioning does matter. Yeah yeah, even the "Twinkie Diet" could help you lose weight if in a state of caloric inadequacy, but you have to take into account body composition after that. You could have lost weight, but lost muscle and gained fat. To say that you won't get fat as long as you're in a deficit may not be totally true.

These are all just views from days worth of reading throughout the last couple of years. Heck, I probably read about this shizz too much (should probably go read my Encyclopedia of Educational Psychology now haha), but yeah, if any of you guys have legit sources to share, I'd love to be schooled. :cheers:

Well posted. I think part of the issue with dieting is people apply the diets, but don't understand how it really works, or how the body works. No one diet is the true end all be all, yet every diet, just like every car will take you from point A to point B. Depends on the driver and the car.(Always remember to turn on the car and hit the gas, Lol)

I see you like literature, and to emphasize my point about understanding the diet and the body read this one: The Last 15 Pounds by Dr.Joey Shulman She applies so many things that are missing in the diet literature world, you'll undersand your body, and foods way better.


Of course. With all the farm-raised and grain-fed bull-crap around. Needless to say that with that, I can't help but remain skeptical. I know you've said your word, but I shall stick by whey not being produced the same everywhere. I remember you said that most of the raw material comes from the same supply, but I there has to be some differences with the way they are processed, and while the raw material may be good, the processing might be the one actually ruining the product. And thanks for the tip.

Most definately. There are many ways of filtering. You're absolutely right in the fact that certain protein fractions are lost in the filtering process, but that depends on how far you want to go with making your product absolutely lactose free. But in essence even with what you're losing which isn't very much in terms of protein fractions, you're gaining the fact that there's significantly less fat, sugar, carbs, cholesterol, lactose, and impurities.


ALways thought you were still with GNC. I've been using ON ever since (the natural line. And just in case, yes, I also AM pretty skeptical about the "authenticity" of it). I haven't had any problems with it, but a change would be good. Dymatize is pretty cheap here online, plus I've been hearing it tastes pretty good. Might try some after I finish my tub. What sweeteners do you guys use?

I left GNC 2 years ago and on my third year with Dymatize Nutrition. I also work with BPI (yes, the famed 1MR).
For our natural line we use Stevia. Most of the other products use Ace-K and sucralose. But definately try ours. If you're concerned about protein fractions then you can see on our label that most are still in tact.
Hope that helps

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Protein is thermogenic.

It's the safest macronutrient to go heavy on and that explains why bodybuilders overshoot. If you guys head over to Mercola's website, you'll note that certain agrarian tribes do not function well with too much protein.

Excess carbs f*ck up insulin sensitivity. Insulin sensitivity = reaction to having a nice pasta dinner (should be lots of energy and a feeling of happiness). When you shove that stuff down your throat 24/7. That's why it's ideal to have carbs pre/post workout or when you are starving.

Same thing with leptin aka the hunger hormone.

I'm very pro-fat. >110 grams a day split betwen avocados, egg yolks, butter, EVOO, almonds, pistachios, and fatty meats really gets you feeling awesome. And most importantly stable.

[Dbrog]

To achieve ideal body comp, you need to understand that carbs spike your insulin and thus you should be careful with your carbohydrate intake. On one hand, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our bodies. You can't gain an ounce of muscle without insulin. On the other hand, insulin causes your fat cells to store fat.


The research (not that mainstream crap) seems to show that bmulls is correct. As for the calorie in calorie out hypothesis, that seems to be inconclusive at best. I recommend Gary Taubes' book to you guys "Why We Get Fat: And What To Do About It" http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307272702. He is a respected scientist who recently turned his studies towards nutrition. His arguments are backed with scientific and historical evidence in an easy-to-understand book. Just some of the points are covered in the reviews..


That we get fat because we eat too many calories, or we don't burn enough of them through movement. But this is nonsense. It's not just wrong, it is actually not a statement about what causes obesity at all (or heart disease, cancer or diabetes, for that matter.) It is, in Taubes' words, a "junior high level mistake," because it tells us nothing about fat accumulation. If we get fat, by definition we have taken in more calories than we've put out -- but WHY we took in those calories, or didn't burn them, is the key point.

Taubes reviews the scientific literature (rather than the popular press) and presents a conclusion that was common knowledge before WWII, and heresy afterward: we get fat because our fat cells have become disregulated and are taking nutrients that should be available to other tissues. Like a tumor, the cells live for themselves rather than in balance with the rest of the body. And since those nutrients aren't available, we become hungry and tired. Therefore we eat more, and move less.

The problem isn't one of gluttony and sloth, as Taubes refers to it, but of hormone balance. Simply put, some people are more sensitive to the hormone effects of insulin, cortisol, and a few other -ols, than other people are. The more sensitive you are, the more you're likely to get fat, and the more fat you're likely to get, in the presence of even small amounts of carbohydrate -- and in the absence of enough fat.

About a 3:1 ratio of fat to protein, and almost no carbohydrates. (Telling people to eat a balanced diet containing carbohydrates is, he says, equivalent to telling smokers to include a balanced serving of cigarettes.) And he demonstrates exactly why a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet is the most heart-healthy approach, as borne out by several dozen recent studies.

While Taubes acknowledges that exercise seems to be good for us for a variety of reasons, weight control isn't one of them. Study after study conducted by proponents of exercise have admitted that they see no compelling evidence for exercise as a weight-loss tool. And it makes sense if you throw out the calories in/calories out model of why we get fat. If we're fat because our fat tissues are starving the rest of our cells of fuel, exercise is just going to make us hungrier and more tired, not leaner and more fit. (It's worth noting that according to Taubes, in the 1930s obese patients were treated with bed rest.)

The main thrust of Taubes' argument, however, surrounds sugar and to a lesser extent any carbohydrate. Insulin is the primary hormone that fixes fat in the fat cells. This is why Type I diabetics lose weight: they're not producing enough insulin. Since insulin is manufactured in direct response to carbohydrates, if you don't eat them, you won't have a mechanism by which to store fat. Taubes argues that any success in standard diets can be attributed directly to the dieter's reduced intake of carbohydrates, especially sugars and particularly fructose.


I know no one will read all this, even though I recommend you do if your really care about the subject. However, I challenge you to rethink the ways the media tells you nutrition works.

TL;DR - Fat cells become disregulated (messes up insulin intake) and are taking nutrients that should be available to other tissues. This is due to the high intake of sugars and fructose (large amounts found in carbs). A good diet includes a 3:1 ratio of fat to protein with plenty of veggies.

[LA_Showtime]

Don't understand why people post Internet articles. There are thousands of 'em out there that contradict each other. I'm just going off the general consensus on the bodybuilding forums. Those guys know their shit.

[bmulls]

Don't understand why people post Internet articles. There are thousands of 'em out there that contradict each other. I'm just going off the general consensus on the bodybuilding forums. Those guys know their shit.

That is the consensus on BB.com, not so much on other message boards. I know you aren't pulling this out of no where though, I believe it is Ken "Skip" Hill who started this concept.

He wrote an article where he claimed he had guys eating sugar, pancakes, cereal, soda, candy, etc. for all of their carbs and it didn't matter for body composition.

I don't believe it, not yet. Just another bodybuilding "guru" who has discovered the secret, and all you need to do is buy his book and follow him on twitter. Oh, and you'll need these supplements as well. You can buy them from his online store!

I ain't set in my ways completely though. If research comes out and shows he is correct I will believe it. I'm just not willing to spend 4 months eating junk and then another 4 months fixing what I messed up in case it turns out IIFYM is just a gimmick when I already know what is guaranteed to work for me.

[hateraid]

I stay off of BB.com. Alot of it brings bad habits. It's no different from ISH main page in where it's alot more opinion. Difference is supplements are based on factual information and not opinion like sports is. The posters by majority are uneducated and do not back alot of their statements with factual human clinical trials. They educate themselves with the internet and word of mouth, and once they learn what they are taught, they refuse to be subjective.
Take a look at here, I'll only post things if I can back my statements up with information I've gathered from my University of Florida textbook, protocols from my industry, and networking, yet people still try to refute me with only the word of the internet or their buddy who bodybuilds to back them up.
How much worse would it be to argue with a bunch of meatheads.

Here's a funny story of when I worked at GNC:
Some of you know I worked as a Product Manager at GNC, which means I was on a committee of people who formulate products. Well GNC maunufacturing also makes products for other companies, but I'll keep that hush hush.
Anyways, I was working at a store one time and a fellow comes in wanting to return our isolate protein. I asked what the problem was. He said it doesn't work for him and he wanted to return it for another isolate that he knows works for him and all his friends, which was a little more mainstream. Funny thing is the protein he wanted is manufactured by GNC. It's the exact same raw materials, exacts same protein, other than a few minor details it's essentially GNC protein with a different label. I explained it to him that this is the same protein but a different label. How can it not work if it's made in the same plant, with the exact same raw materials? His response? I know my body and I do my research.:oldlol: Meatheads.
That's my opinion of BB.com and it's members, and most shoppers in the industry. They claim to be experts with no particular history of education. They are cluless to what's really going on despite the fact that I can be 100% totally honest, factual, and honestly trying to help.

I'll give them one thing, they promote Dymatize and BPI very well

[LA_Showtime]

Go to the losing fat section. There are doctors and countless other people who know their shit. Of course you're going to get idiots on that board, so what? There are dumb people in every walk of life.

Besides, if you read there or just educated yourself in general you would have known excess protein/carbohydrates don't convert to fat. You post shit like that on there and they'll link you to a bunch of articles and give you reasons why you're wrong.

[LA_Showtime]

That is the consensus on BB.com, not so much on other message boards. I know you aren't pulling this out of no where though, I believe it is Ken "Skip" Hill who started this concept.

He wrote an article where he claimed he had guys eating sugar, pancakes, cereal, soda, candy, etc. for all of their carbs and it didn't matter for body composition.

I don't believe it, not yet. Just another bodybuilding "guru" who has discovered the secret, and all you need to do is buy his book and follow him on twitter. Oh, and you'll need these supplements as well. You can buy them from his online store!

I ain't set in my ways completely though. If research comes out and shows he is correct I will believe it. I'm just not willing to spend 4 months eating junk and then another 4 months fixing what I messed up in case it turns out IIFYM is just a gimmick when I already know what is guaranteed to work for me.

That's not what IIFYM is about. You figure out your ratios and goals, and most of your calories are from "clean" food. IIFYM just prevents people from completely cutting out their favorite foods, or going to extreme diets that are bound to fail in the long run.

[Velocirap31]

Hateraid, what do you think about creatine? I've taken creatine for about 6 months straight now and was just wondering if I should cycle off of it. I mean take a month off of it and then go back on it, etc. I feel that if I take it for a longer period of time it will lose any effectiveness and maybe even f my body's natural production up. What do you think? Of course I've been taking adequate protein as well.

[hateraid]

Go to the losing fat section. There are doctors and countless other people who know their shit. Of course you're going to get idiots on that board, so what? There are dumb people in every walk of life.

Doctors themselves admit to not knowing alot about nutrition. Dr.Oz is a doctor. Do you subcribe to his word? As for these other knowledgable people, how do you think they've acquired their knowledge? Through internet and word of mouth. Not saying everyone on bodybuilding.com are dummies but it is no different from going to the basketball forum and arguing who's better, Kobe or Lebron? You want nutrition advice, go to a Nutritionist or Kinesiologist, not a doctor or messageboard. Would you go to a nutritionist if you had a heart disease? We learn about that in our courses, are we qualified to give advice?



Besides, if you read there or just educated yourself in general you would have known excess protein/carbohydrates don't convert to fat. You post shit like that on there and they'll link you to a bunch of articles and give you reasons why you're wrong.

And yet there's articles to refute that. Plus articles are articles, they are opinions. I've posted something straight out of a University of Florida textbook, the leading institute in the world for Nutrition, yet I still get refuted. I don't just pull things out of my ass :confusedshrug:

Look bro, no offense but you seem like the type of guy who really subscribes to BB.com. If that's you're thing, so be it. I'm not here to change your mind. It seems like everything I post agitates you and my intentions are not to debate, just share my experiences. If it works for you then all the power to you.

[hateraid]

Hateraid, what do you think about creatine? I've taken creatine for about 6 months straight now and was just wondering if I should cycle off of it. I mean take a month off of it and then go back on it, etc. I feel that if I take it for a longer period of time it will lose any effectiveness and maybe even f my body's natural production up. What do you think? Of course I've been taking adequate protein as well.

Creatine information has gone the way of the dinosaurs (see what I've done there? lol)
Gone are the days of loading, and 10 grams for a week, take with grapejuice and insulin mimikers, cycling....
You won't screw your body up by going on it. You body is very resiliant in it's production of creating ATP.
There has been many human clinical trials with creatine HCL. Which is a buffered form. No cycling, less waste material, better PH, and significant gains with less water retention. Try a product called Con-crete.


Note, all creatine is creatine monohydrate. It's all varient on what it is bonded to.

[Velocirap31]

Thanks, I'll check that out. :cheers:
I just bought a basic creatine monohydrate that I mix with dextrose and water myself. It's so much cheaper than buying products like Cell-Tech, etc.

[hateraid]

Thanks, I'll check that out. :cheers:
I just bought a basic creatine monohydrate that I mix with dextrose and water myself. It's so much cheaper than buying products like Cell-Tech, etc.

If you're going to do it that way maybe suggest a few things.
- Ever try waxy maize? Better insulin response and lower molecular weight compared to dextrose.
- Take a good insulin mimiker like ALA or vanadyl sulfate.
- Do shake and take effective immediately after workout. Creatine starts to becaome volatile immediately once contacted with water.

Don't foget to take protein!
:cheers:

[hateraid]

So anyways, did you get your questioned answered Vishal? :lol

[VishaltotheG]

So anyways, did you get your questioned answered Vishal? :lol

Yeah pretty much. Did you study this in school or something? :lol

By the way, how is creatine in a tablet compared to powder? I hate the taste of supplements and I just want something I can take like medicine. Protein has too much molecular weight to fit into a pill so creatine is the next option for me.

[hateraid]

Yeah pretty much. Did you study this in school or something? :lol

By the way, how is creatine in a tablet compared to powder? I hate the taste of supplements and I just want something I can take like medicine. Protein has too much molecular weight to fit into a pill so creatine is the next option for me.

Yeah I did study nutrition

There are creatine capsules. Con-crete makes tablets I believe, but bro, creatine doesn't replace protein