Wade is holding Lebron back...

[pauk]

...there i said it...

especially in the 4th quarter...

sorry if i hurt somebodies feelings.. but this is true...

Obviously, Miami Heat is probably better with Wade in there aswell...

Lebron sacrificed his typical video game performances & numbers teaming up with Wade...

Its a sacrifice for a Championship......

But boy do i hope he wins a Championship.... because if he doesnt then what he sacrificed all in all coming in to Miami was really not worth it... becoming hated, losing alot of fans, losing money and losing his video game performances......... many of us miss that Cleveland Lebron... and he cant be that guy so often with a super balldominant perimeter player at his side...

I hope that sacrifice was worth it.... you better win a championship! :D

[Bladers]

lol @ pauk preparing excuse for tomorrow's letdown. :oldlol:

[SFMF]

Dumb thread, but I hope this somehow develops into a hate between Wade and James so the Heat gets cold in the playoffs

[SpecialQue]

:lebronamazed:

[pauk]

Dumb thread, but I hope this somehow develops into a hate between Wade and James so the Heat gets cold in the playoffs

So... you dont think that Wade & Lebron are holding eachother back? Care to explain?

Has nothing to do with hate... its no secret they are holding eachother back, but they do it for the better good... for better team success... for a championship... because Miami Heat sure is better with those two playing... there is pros & cons with throwing in two balldominant superstar players together....

[NumberSix]

Opinions based on 1 game. Usually a flawless formula.

[PJR]

LeBron, and only LeBron holds himself back.

[Fudge]

:oldlol:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/310120/news_lebron-james-check-my-stats-1.jpg

[Brickz187]

Yeah, but thats what happens when you team up with a player just as good as you. They are both holding each other, and Bosh back. They play best together when they are both attacking instead of one sitting back watching while the other is attacking. It is something they have yet to figure out and I don't understand why. As long as it leads to the Heat winning more championships, I am all for it.

[Heavincent]

Opinions based on 1 game. Usually a flawless formula.

The Heat are 9-1 without Wade, and Lebron and Bosh always play better without him out there, so...

[EnoughSaid]

What the hell are you talking about? They definitely weren't holding each other back against the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year... Do you not remember LeBron and Wade have amazing games in the SAME series? Of course they aren't as productive because they're not the only main ball-handlers, but there is no way in hell that this Heat team that played tonight could win a title without Wade. Plus it was against the Sixers man. The Heat destroyed the Sixers the previous 2 times they met, WITH Wade. :facepalm

[305Baller]

like i have said before, it's easier to dominate with one guy but the payoff is better if you can make it work with both of them.

Wade's decline (??) may be a factor right now though.

[Kingwillball]

The Heat are 9-1 without Wade, and Lebron and Bosh always play better without him out there, so...


There is No argument there..

[SpecialQue]

The Heat are 9-1 without Wade, and Lebron and Bosh always play better without him out there, so...

:lebronamazed:

[Doctor Rivers]

Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time... lebron can only hope to be half the finals performer he is

[pauk]

What the hell are you talking about? They definitely weren't holding each other back against the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year... Do you not remember LeBron and Wade have amazing games in the SAME series? Of course they aren't as productive because they're not the only main ball-handlers, but there is no way in hell that this Heat team that played tonight could win a title without Wade. Plus it was against the Sixers man. The Heat destroyed the Sixers the previous 2 times they met, WITH Wade. :facepalm

I agree... but like i said... Miami is better with them two together playing...

its no secret they are holding eachother back, but they do it for the better good... for better team success... for a championship... because Miami Heat sure is better with those two playing... there is pros & cons with throwing in two balldominant superstar players together....

What do i mean with they are holding eachother back? Very simple.... Lebron without Wade would have much higher usange rating, more FG attempts, more points etc.... and most importantly many more clutch moments.... same deal with Wade if Lebron was not playing....

[PickernRoller]

Talk about overreaction already........if Wade is holding Lebron back, ship Lebron' @ss to some other team. Wade owns the Heat, not Lebron......

On a civilized note....overreaction.

[Doctor Rivers]

LeBron, and only LeBron holds himself back.

and his hairline

[nathanjizzle]

how many times have i said this before and have been rediculed for it? lebron doesnt like playing with big brother wade.

[SpecialQue]

Talk about overreaction already........if Wade is holding Lebron back, ship Lebron to some other team. Wade owns the Heat, not Lebron....stupid ass homers...

:lebroncry:

[EnoughSaid]

Yeah. If LeBron wanted to keep putting up amazing stats and not having anyone hold him back, he would have STAYED in Cleveland. He joined WADE to be able to compete. To be able to win a god-damn title for crying out loud. I'm sure LeBron doesn't care that he's not as productive when he's with Wade.

[FKAri]

Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time

:lebronamazed:

[LABean]

Wade is overrated.
I bet if you put LeBron with any other player, they'd manage to play great together.
And people have him top 5. :facepalm

[Fudge]

What do i mean with they are holding eachother back? Very simple.... Lebron without Wade would have much higher usange rating, more FG attempts, more points etc.... and most importantly many more clutch moments....
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0216/pg2_g_pippen_sy_576.jpg

[Kingwillball]

Talk about overreaction already........if Wade is holding Lebron back, ship Lebron to some other team. Wade owns the Heat, not Lebron....stupid ass homers...


Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..

[SpecialQue]

Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..

:lebronamazed:

[pauk]

Lebron just scored 15 points in the 4th quarter, closed out the game, hitting key shots...... and that is called clutch......
Lebron would have much less or maybe even NONE in the 4th quarter if Wade was playing..... and would be called "choker" instead...

This same thing happened each game this season Lebron played without Wade.....

Thats the way Lebron is "held back"...

Its not like Lebron all of the sudden became CLUTCH, it was always in him...... its that he doesnt have to share the ball and sit like a statue watching Wade dominate the ball anymore...... he doesnt have to be in that "MY TURN - YOUR TURN" offense anymore...

[Kingwillball]

Lebron just scored 14 points in the 4th quarter, closed out the game, hitting key shots...... and that is called clutch......
Lebron would have much less or maybe even NONE in the 4th quarter if Wade was playing..... and would be called "choker" instead...

This same thing happened each game this season Lebron played without Wade.....

Thats the way Lebron is "held back"...

Its not like Lebron all of the sudden became CLUTCH....... its that he doesnt have to share the ball and sit like a statue watching Wade do his thing anymore......


15

[Fudge]

Ain't nothing more entertaining than sitting back watching a few idiot Heat fans and Lebron dickriders argue about the most stupidest shit. :oldlol:

[SpecialQue]

Lebron just scored 14 points in the 4th quarter, closed out the game, hitting key shots...... and that is called clutch......
Lebron would have much less or maybe even NONE in the 4th quarter if Wade was playing..... and would be called "choker" instead...

This same thing happened each game this season Lebron played without Wade.....

Thats the way Lebron is "held back"...

Its not like Lebron all of the sudden became CLUTCH, it was always in him...... its that he doesnt have to share the ball and sit like a statue watching Wade do his thing anymore......

:lebronamazed:

[PickernRoller]

Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..

Wow boy, talk about dickriding high............no loyalty at all wtf...so Lebron comes to this team via Wade and now you want Wade to be traded for D12?????? How about Bron traded for D12.......your boy can thrive in Magic uniform right??? Seen it all from these homers....

Homerism.....worse than ph@g0tism...

Bron should hve stayed in Cleveland.....his homers are just nuts....

[EnoughSaid]

So let me get this straight. Did you actually think that LeBron and Wade would be putting up career highs in all categories? Of course playing with another dominant player is going to lower your averages, but for what? TO ****ING WIN A TITLE! This isn't about LeBron's 4th quarter moments, or how many points he puts up, it's all about winning. And the Heat won't get past the Magic or Bulls without Wade. :no:

[Doctor Rivers]

Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..

lolol

[PJR]

Pauk and kingwill :oldlol:

[imnew09]

Pauk and his "..."

[SpecialQue]

Trade Wade for Dwight and Bosh for Love.

Trade Battier for a bag of condoms.

[Jameerthefear]

Lebron just scored 15 points in the 4th quarter, closed out the game, hitting key shots...... and that is called clutch......
Lebron would have much less or maybe even NONE in the 4th quarter if Wade was playing..... and would be called "choker" instead...

This same thing happened each game this season Lebron played without Wade.....

Thats the way Lebron is "held back"...

Its not like Lebron all of the sudden became CLUTCH, it was always in him...... its that he doesnt have to share the ball and sit like a statue watching Wade dominate the ball anymore...... he doesnt have to be in that "MY TURN - YOUR TURN" offense anymore...
He wouldn't have to stand like a statue if he learnt how to play off ball...

[Kingwillball]

Trade Wade for Dwight and Bosh for Love.

Trade Battier for a bag of condoms.


Actually Bosh would Work Well with D12 since he is a Jump shooting Big and would not Clog the paint for D12..

[EnoughSaid]

Just put LeBron at point guard. Start this lineup: Bron, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Turiaf. Have Chalmers gone for point, Miller for SG and James Jones for SF. I don't know why Spoelstra plays LeBron as a SF. Make him a point guard dammit!

[DonDadda59]

Nobody put a gun to his head (unless Pat Riley was doing it off camera :( )

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/0708/dm_100708_nba_lebron_gray_full_int.jpg

[305Baller]

Ain't nothing more entertaining than sitting back watching a few idiot Heat fans and Lebron dickriders argue about the most stupidest shit. :oldlol:

Kobe... is that you??

:biggums:

[DuMa]

doubters :facepalm

[Fudge]

Kobe... is that you??

:biggums:
Yeah, its me.

http://starberryicecream.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kobe2.jpg

[305Baller]

Nobody put a gun to his head (unless Pat Riley was doing it off camera :( )

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/0708/dm_100708_nba_lebron_gray_full_int.jpg

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/pat_riley_oj_mayo.png

[EnoughSaid]

So now when LeBron plays bad, your guys' excuse is going to be that Wade held him back. Come on man. This clearly shows you guys are not Heat fans, but are just LeBron dick riders. And I like LeBron too. My 2nd favorite player. But honestly, you guys need to relax.

[pauk]

Yea i know that EnoughSaid....

What is my problem then?

My problem is that i miss the Cleveland Lebron....
i miss watching him score 30 points in the 4th quarter......
i miss him dropping 40-50 point triple doubles over and over........
i miss him scoring 16 points in 2 minutes.....
i miss him averaging up to 31-8-9........
i miss him going for career highs.....
i miss amazing individual performances........

Lebron is BOTTLENECKED in Miami........... people almost forget how truly good he is......... but on the other hand, he did it in order to win a championship..... so ok....

[Bigsmoke]

u rather have Wade or Mo Williams Pauk?:biggums:

[LoneyROY7]

Unfortunately for pauk, LeBron's individual greatness wasn't enough to win a championship in 7 years with the Cavs.

Wade's on the other hand...was enough. That's why he's wearing that ring.

[pauk]

u rather have Wade or Mo Williams Pauk?:biggums:

Wade...

Not sure what your point is? Did you read what i said?
I think i made it quite clear that Miami Heat are better with Wade in there..... i am just saying that they are holding eachother back in terms of individual performances.... doh....

[TheAesirsFinest]

So now when LeBron plays bad, your guys' excuse is going to be that Wade held him back. Come on man. This clearly shows you guys are not Heat fans, but are just LeBron dick riders. And I like LeBron too. My 2nd favorite player. But honestly, you guys need to relax.

:kobe: Duh, lol.

[EnoughSaid]

Yea i know that EnoughSaid....

What is my problem then?

My problem is that i miss the Cleveland Lebron....
i miss watching him score 30 points in the 4th quarter......
i miss him dropping 40-50 point triple doubles over and over........
i miss him scoring 16 points in 2 minutes.....
i miss him averaging up to 31-8-9........
i miss him going for career highs.....
i miss amazing individual performances........

Lebron is BOTTLENECKED in Miami........... people almost forget how truly good he is......... but on the other hand, he did it in order to win a championship..... so ok....

LeBron has nothing left to prove in terms of stats. He's won 2 MVP's, scoring title, has had tons of triple-doubles, etc. Dude is a stat machine. But what's holding him back? Yep. Dude never had a legit chance of winning the title. Last year was his first real opportunity, and he stunk it up in the Finals. Do you think having him average the same Cleveland stats would matter if he didn't win a title? Ask Robert Horry or Derek Fisher if they'd exchange their titles for statistics or scoring titles. And ask Charles Barkley, Karl Malone or Steve Nash if they'd exchange their MVP's and stats for a title.

I understand that you want LeBron to achieve and reach success in a lot of fields (scoring, MVP's, triple doubles) but it's not like he hasn't proven that he could do it. For 7 seasons in Cleveland, all he did was put up crazy stats after crazy stats. Now it's time to win that title. At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning the championship.

[Chaddai]

What Pauk is trying to say is that Wade needs to chill and take a backseat to Lebron.

[ganja0710]

http://i41.tinypic.com/v4xhlf.png

[Maniak]

This is why LeBron going to South Beach was a terrible choice.

Wade and Bosh is a formidable duo. Two of the nba's elite scorers together, and we already knew how good Wade works with a big(see his ring with Shaq).

But then you put LeBron into that equation rather than some good roleplayers and a top bench, and it's all messed up.

I will always feel that LeBron is suited best as the star of the team, surrounded by mostly roleplayers. He would probably benefit from a low block big who can put up numbers around 20/10 as his second option.

Cleveland was so close to getting it right for LeBron. They were just missing his go to second option. The organization tried many people, but it just wasn't right and never worked, and his mind was probably "I haven't won without stars, now I should win with stars" or something along that line.

Wade is not necessarily holding LeBron back. Rather, they're counterproductive of one anothers skillset.

[EnoughSaid]

What Pauk is trying to say is that Wade needs to chill and take a backseat to Lebron.

Why would he do that when he is equally as important to the team? Without him playing aggressively and like he does now, they wouldn't get anywhere. If you are talking about primary ball-handling and play-making, I understand, but no way in hell should Wade take a step back and let LeBron do everything. :no:

[NumberSix]

Yeah, its me.

http://starberryicecream.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kobe2.jpg
Holy shit Kobe has really short fingers? Is that just the angle or are his fingers really that short?

[ganja0710]

Holy shit Kobe has really short fingers? Is that just the angle or are his fingers really that short?
that shi happens when you got really tight rings on all five fingers...

:kobe:

[Scholar]

Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time... lebron can only hope to be half the finals performer he is

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[pauk]

Unfortunately for pauk, LeBron's individual greatness wasn't enough to win a championship in 7 years with the Cavs.

Wade's on the other hand...was enough. That's why he's wearing that ring.

Unfortunately for LoneyROY7..... Lebrons or anybodies individual greatness had never much to do with team accomplishments unless those players had the correct teammates to work with around them..... this is not tennis...

Wade won 1 champinoship.... after that, since 2006, he was killed in the 1st round all the time..... and what did Lebron do with his scrub team during that time?

Its not like Wade got worse after 2006.... he actually got much better.... so why was his teams success so bad?

Care to explain? Wades team was simply not that good anymore....... its that simple!

****ing sick and tired of people like you trying to act like a Championship is the act of one man..............

Just say it.... i know you can..... repeat after me... its not so hard.... lets go:

CHAMPIONSHIP IS A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

[PJR]

What Pauk is trying to say is that Wade needs to chill and take a backseat to Lebron.

He has.

[pauk]

What Pauk is trying to say is that Wade needs to chill and take a backseat to Lebron.

Yes... because Lebron is a better player... a better, more consistant, non injury proned and younger player....

[Scholar]

i am just saying that they are holding eachother back in terms of individual performances.... doh....

Obviously. If there are two dudes who are ball-dominant players, obviously they'll hold each other back with individual performances, but it's all for the greater good, which happens to be ring chasing.

[Bigsmoke]

Wade...

Not sure what your point is? Did you read what i said?
I think i made it quite clear that Miami Heat are better with Wade in there..... i am just saying that they are holding eachother back in terms of individual performances.... doh....

i didnt see the game "at work" but scoring 40 on the sixers seems pretty impressive since they are a team that only allow 88ppg on 42% shooting.

they are ranked #1 in points allowed and Def Rtg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2012.html

[LoneyROY7]

Unfortunately for LoneyROY7..... Lebrons or anybodies individual greatness had never much to do with team accomplishments unless those players had the correct teammates to work with around them..... this is not tennis...

Wade won 1 champinoship.... after that, since 2006, he was killed in the 1st round all the time..... and what did Lebron do with his scrub team during that time?

Its not like Wade got worse after 2006.... he actually got much better.... so why was his teams success so bad?

Care to explain? Wades team was simple not that good anymore....... its that simple!

****ing sick and tired of people like you trying to act like a Championship is the act of one man..............

Just say it.... i know you can..... repeat after me... its not so hard.... lets go:

CHAMPIONSHIP IS A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

There it is. BOOM. The truth.

Now stop pretending that like Wade...you don't. You're jealous that he has a ring and LeBron doesn't. You don't want him to get any credit if the Heat do win...you want LeBron to get all of it.

Is that not true?

Wade won a championship as the best/most dominant player. Pure and simple.

[Sarcastic]

Trade Lebron for Dwight. Problem solved.

[arifgokcen]

What the hell are you talking about? They definitely weren't holding each other back against the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year... Do you not remember LeBron and Wade have amazing games in the SAME series? Of course they aren't as productive because they're not the only main ball-handlers, but there is no way in hell that this Heat team that played tonight could win a title without Wade. Plus it was against the Sixers man. The Heat destroyed the Sixers the previous 2 times they met, WITH Wade. :facepalm

If lebron plays like he can play.He would have won it 5 years ago.Sometimes you are forgetting how good this guy really is.He can be your best at everything defending rebounding blocking scoring assisting.No other player in history had his kind of versatility.I just wish he tries to emulate MJ mentality.

[winwin]

i agree with pauk ...

where is indian guy? what he has to say about this

[EnoughSaid]

So now you're trying to say that because LeBron led his team to the ECF's and the Finals, he's been a better playoff performer? :roll: Wade did it ALL in the Finals series, while LeBron never performed like he should have.

[winwin]

Holy shit Kobe has really short fingers? Is that just the angle or are his fingers really that short?
you want your asshole to be fingered with long fingers?

what a dirty prostitute :facepalm

[ganja0710]

If lebron plays like he can play.He would have won it 5 years ago.Sometimes you are forgetting how good this guy really is.He can be your best at everything defending rebounding blocking scoring assisting.No other player in history had his kind of versatility.I just wish he tries to emulate MJ mentality.
He can't and he never will. #fact

[Bigsmoke]

There it is. BOOM. The truth.

Now stop pretending that like Wade...you don't. You're jealous that he has a ring and LeBron doesn't. You don't want him to get any credit if the Heat do win...you want LeBron to get all of it.

Is that not true?

Wade won a championship as the best/most dominant player. Pure and simple.

Wade did his thing. No Doubt.

but the Mavs choked as badly as LeBron did last year in the Finals.

[pauk]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Funny-Basketball-Pic-of-Kobe-Bryant-groping-a-Chinese-player-1-2.png

fixed

[pmj]

Why would he do that when he is equally as important to the team? Without him playing aggressively and like he does now, they wouldn't get anywhere. If you are talking about primary ball-handling and play-making, I understand, but no way in hell should Wade take a step back and let LeBron do everything. :no:

That is what we're talking about. Lebron needs the ball in his hands, period. Wade can play off the ball, he can post up, can score in a lot of ways. He'll get his, Lebron's still generally pass-first.

It's almost more a knock on Lebron than on Wade. Lebron just excels a certain way, and he's REALLY good that way, but pretty much only that way. The taking turns crap just turns him into a role player.

[ganja0710]

fixed
^^Ya he mad.

:roll:

[Maniak]

pauk just curious of what you think regarding what i said on the previous page.

[Jotaro Durant]

typical lbj stan
in cleveland he cant do himself needs help
in miami wade holding him back:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Kingwillball]

Yea i know that EnoughSaid....

What is my problem then?

My problem is that i miss the Cleveland Lebron....
i miss watching him score 30 points in the 4th quarter......
i miss him dropping 40-50 point triple doubles over and over........
i miss him scoring 16 points in 2 minutes.....
i miss him averaging up to 31-8-9........
i miss him going for career highs.....
i miss amazing individual performances........

Lebron is BOTTLENECKED in Miami........... people almost forget how truly good he is......... but on the other hand, he did it in order to win a championship..... so ok....


I agree, It is nice to see he can still Dominate though..

[Celtics4ever]

Yes... because Lebron is a better player... a better, more consistant, non injury proned and younger player....

LeBron can't win shlt without Wade. LeBron needs guys like Wade, Kobe, Rose, Durant, Jordan etc. on his team to close out games.

LeBron is only a pippen, he needs his Jordan to win. Dude lacks a killer instinct and is a goof off that doesn't take things seriously.

[EnoughSaid]

That's why Spo should start LeBron at the Point!! Let him always bring the ball up the floor, do the play making, initiate everything and set up teammates. He'll score when he want to, but if he could set up everyone and make the team a better TOGETHER squad, then I'm all for it. I just want to see how the Heat play against the Thunder tomorrow. They got embarrassed the first time, and they better bounce back strong.

[TheNaturalWR]

Wade is holding LeBron back? Who the **** held Wade back in the Finals?

[LoneyROY7]

Wade is holding LeBron back? Who the **** held Wade back in the Finals?

Exactly.

[EnoughSaid]

It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:

[SFMF]

So... you dont think that Wade & Lebron are holding eachother back? Care to explain?

Has nothing to do with hate... its no secret they are holding eachother back, but they do it for the better good... for better team success... for a championship... because Miami Heat sure is better with those two playing... there is pros & cons with throwing in two balldominant superstar players together....

well... like all the others said it's based on a game or few games.

But that's not why I think it's a dumb thread.

Lebron joined the Heat to play with Wade. Don't you see the irony?

[ganja0710]

It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:
:lebroncry: :lebroncry: :lebroncry: :lebroncry:

[guy]

From 05-10 he put up 29/7/7 on 48% and since he came to the Heat he's put up 27/8/7 on 52%. The difference really isn't that big.

You can argue that any decline in production from Lebron and Wade has a lot more to do with their athletic decline then anything else.

[TheNaturalWR]

It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:

If the Heat don't win a championship the series vs the Mavs is gonna eat his legacy alive.

[guy]

If the Heat don't win a championship the series vs the Mavs is gonna eat his legacy alive.

Think it already has. A title still doesn't change that his performance was arguably the worst in finals history for someone of his caliber.

[Whoah10115]

You can say the combination of Bosh and Wade, as the team is probably better with Lebron and Wade and not a guy like Bosh...or, blame the coach, who can't make the most of Bosh in the half-court. Such a waste of a player.



Webber was asking him today if he was hurt and Bosh laughed and said no, that it's the way he is and that the coaches keep reminding him to run the court.


DUH...if they're not gonna maximize him in the half-court, then there's no point in playing him. His rebounding is lesser, and obviously so is his offensive game. It's incredible that the coaching staff can't put that together.

[TheNaturalWR]

Think it already has. A title still doesn't change that his performance was arguably the worst in finals history for someone of his caliber.

He still has a chance if he wins a title this year and shows up to play. A Finals MVP will definitely increase his legacy big time but knowing Wade....doubt he gets it.

[Joshumitsu]

It has more to do with usage rating.

Why do you think Lin was doing so well for a period of time? His usage rating was extremely high and consistent, allowing him to miss shots, find his rhythm, make plays/turnovers, etc. When Carmelo came back, Lin started demanding less shots and deferred to Melo, a proven star, instead. However, with Lin also in play, Melo has struggled (partly due to injury) because he hasn't been used consistently enough and is instead chucking up shots. Now that Lin is out, Melo is slowly transitioning back into his old self.

When you have too many ball dominant stars, the amount of usage you can distribute amongst them will be lower than the amount they need to succeed, thus lowering their overall efficiency.

[ballinhun8]

What a terrible knee jerk reaction thread.

[DMAVS41]

Its abundantly clear and obvious that Lebron and Wade can't play at their peak level on the same team.

Which is exactly what a lot of people were curious to see how it would work.

Its not really an excuse...its about the limitations of each of their games so to speak. Put a guy like Kobe next to Lebron and it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a better fit than Wade because of how good of a spot up shooter Kobe is.

Still should win the title and dominate teams though. While its not perfect, they should be able to make it work. Part of being a great basketball player is being able to play many different styles and with many different players and with many different coaches...etc.

If Lebron and Wade can't do that...then that takes away a bit from their greatness.

[Kews1]

should have just stayed on the cavs. :coleman:

[EnoughSaid]

I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.

[NumberSix]

should have just stayed on the cavs. :coleman:
http://s16.postimage.org/hfe9trysz/GEORGE_W_BUSH.jpg

[Kews1]

I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.

nobdoy knows how much lebron could have been beasting this year on his own. he could be that good on his own that even with a sub-par cleveland team that he could make pushes for championships on his own. Nothing wrong with going to Miami and it was probably the right decision to make. But Wade holds lebron back in the sense that we will never get to see just how great Lebron could have been. He will still be one of the all time greats and i hope he wins his championships but its a let-down as a basketball fan in general that we cant see his full potential

[vegasbigshots]

Plus it was against the Sixers man. The Heat destroyed the Sixers the previous 2 times they met, WITH Wade. :facepalm

Agreed. And also sixers best player went blind;:coleman:

[Bigsmoke]

nobdoy knows how much lebron could have been beasting this year on his own. he could be that good on his own that even with a sub-par cleveland team that he could make pushes for championships on his own. Nothing wrong with going to Miami and it was probably the right decision to make. But Wade holds lebron back in the sense that we will never get to see just how great Lebron could have been. He will still be one of the all time greats and i hope he wins his championships but its a let-down as a basketball fan in general that we cant see his full potential

Not sure if Bird regretted about McHale, Parish, and Johnson playing for him to only prove he could average like 35 a game.

[Kews1]

Not sure if Bird regretted about McHale, Parish, and Johnson playing for him to only prove he could average like 35 a game.

Touch

[Tenchi Ryu]

I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.
Problem is, that team might not have been garbage looking at what's happened this year.

Varejao was a beast this year before his injury....
Jamison is a good number 2 for Kyrie right now
Mo was great the first half of the year off the clippers bench
Sessions molded into a damn good point guard

I wouldn't call that garbage.

[Kiddlovesnets]

To me it seems that Wade is holding Bosh back, not Lebron.

[LoneyROY7]

If anyone is holding James back, it has to be the OP.

How can LeBron go at full speed with pauk hanging so tightly on his nuts?

[Brickz187]

Lebron held Wade, and the rest of the Miami Heat organization back from winning it's second title. It was and always will be his fault. If he played just half of his abilities, he would have his ring, and would be playing alongside a 2 time FMVP. Fact is, I want to see this team win as many rings as possible as a Heat fan. I don't care who wins it for us, but somebody better get us that ring. If its Lebron leading I don't care. If its Wade or Bosh I don't care. Whoever it is better get us that trophy.

[Pushxx]

LeBron didn't only become hated because he went to Miami. He mostly became hated because he made a mockery of it.

He took a shit on Cleveland fans with the Decision TV special, then started to act like a hyper, retarded, immature girl with the disco dance specials celebrating the new Big 3.

If he handled it correctly, there would have been an entirely different stigma surrounding Miami.

[pauk]

Its abundantly clear and obvious that Lebron and Wade can't play at their peak level on the same team.

Which is exactly what a lot of people were curious to see how it would work.

Its not really an excuse...its about the limitations of each of their games so to speak. Put a guy like Kobe next to Lebron and it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a better fit than Wade because of how good of a spot up shooter Kobe is.

Still should win the title and dominate teams though. While its not perfect, they should be able to make it work. Part of being a great basketball player is being able to play many different styles and with many different players and with many different coaches...etc.

If Lebron and Wade can't do that...then that takes away a bit from their greatness.

Thats all im trying to say....

[pauk]

Lebron held Wade, and the rest of the Miami Heat organization back from winning it's second title. It was and always will be his fault. If he played just half of his abilities, he would have his ring, and would be playing alongside a 2 time FMVP. Fact is, I want to see this team win as many rings as possible as a Heat fan. I don't care who wins it for us, but somebody better get us that ring. If its Lebron leading I don't care. If its Wade or Bosh I don't care. Whoever it is better get us that trophy.

Actually... without Lebron Miami would have not even been in the Finals or even ECF.... the way he closed out the Celtics to get to ECF and the way he murdered Bulls (while Wade was absolutely horrible) got them to the Finals.... actually without Lebron there at all Wade was not able to get past 1st round since 2006...........

Please dont make this a Wade vs Lebron bash fest.... i love them, they are my favorite players..... but i DONT think they complement eachother so well.....

[guy]

Problem is, that team might not have been garbage looking at what's happened this year.

Varejao was a beast this year before his injury....
Jamison is a good number 2 for Kyrie right now
Mo was great the first half of the year off the clippers bench
Sessions molded into a damn good point guard

I wouldn't call that garbage.

Lebron has declined athletically and as a result his half court game has taken quite a large hit. I have great doubts that Cleveland would've been as good as they were in 09 and 10 unless they still did the Mo Williams trade which ended up with them getting Kyrie, which is possible. Without the Kyrie trade, they are probably the 4th or 5th best team in the East right now. With the trade, they are anywhere from the 1st to 3rd best team in the East.

[guy]

Like I said from 05-10, Lebron put up 29/7/7 on 48% vs. 27/8/7 on 52% since he came to Miami.

On the other hand, from 05-10 Wade put up 27/5/7 on 48% vs. 25/6/5 on 50% since Lebron came to Miami.

I excluded their rookie years. There numbers haven't suffered that much and alot of that could be due to an athletic decline especially cause there game is so dependent on athleticism.

The greatest players rarely ever see that big of a statistical difference regardless of what situation they're in. Jordan's numbers didn't go down much once Pippen elevated his game. Kobe's numbers without Shaq are not significantly different then what they've been without him contrary to popular belief. Its not the star players that have to sacrifice much when they play on better teams. Its the role players and lesser stars who sacrifice their production first because first of all they're the first to have to sacrifice their minutes and second of all, they obviously they do and should defer to better players i.e. the stars.

[D-Wade316]

Actually... without Lebron Miami would have not even been in the Finals or even ECF.... the way he closed out the Celtics(while Wade was flat out the best player in that series) to get to ECF and the way he murdered Bulls (while Wade was absolutely horrible, but clutch) got them to the Finals.... actually without Lebron there at all Wade was not able to get past 1st round since 2006(and lebron wouldn't have made it to the Finals)...........
Fixed.

Please dont make this a Wade vs Lebron bash fest.... i love them, they are my favorite players..... but i DONT think they complement eachother so well.....
I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.

[madmax]

I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.

why should Lebron learn how to play off the ball when he is much better and more dominant with the ball in his hands anyway? You are essentially asking the best player in the league to change his game in order to defer to his inferior teammate...sorry brah, it doesn't work like that

[pegasus]

why should Lebron learn how to play off the ball when he is much better and more dominant with the ball in his hands anyway? You are essentially asking the best player in the league to change his game in order to defer to his inferior teammate...sorry brah, it doesn't work like that

Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.

And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.

The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.

[pauk]

Fixed.

I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.

Lebron is a better player than Wade... he is also non-injury proned, more consistant and younger... the ball should be in HIS hands...

The only one who should learn to play more off the ball is Wade... And Wade doesnt regress when the ball is out of his hand? when you are between Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook in PPG then you know that you as a superstar scorer have regressed...

[RRR3]

LeBron should get the ball in the fourth quarter, because as others said, Wade is better off the ball, and Wade doesn't need a confidence boost (LeBron does, though). It's better for LeBron to get more confidence in the clutch. He's only been LeClutch about 5 times this year (twice against the Sixers, including last night, once against Pacers, once against Pistons, and once against Jazz, although he ruined it by not taking last shot). Plus, as great as Wade is, LeBron is LeBron, when he's firing on all cylinders, there's no one better than him (including Durant, stop riding his balls because you're desperate for someone to be better than LBJ :rolleyes:)

[guy]

LOL you guys act like Lebron learning how to play off the ball better is a bad thing. It would be great for him and his team. Same thing goes for Wade.

[madmax]

Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.

And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.

The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.

what do we want?
How about Wade, being a SG and all that jazz, finally learns how to hit a damn jumper? Dude is already declining and blowing more layups at the rim than ever in his career, yet he still can't shoot worth a damn. And if one player is superior to another, you go on and tell me, which one should be adapting his game for the good of his team?

[LakersReign]

Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.

And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.

The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.


They're clueless about that cuz they know nothing about basketball. They HATE the idea of Lebron deferring to Wade or anybody else cuz it completely kills their Jordan comparisons. That being said, if he's been in the league for almost 9 years and STILL can't learn to play without the ball, something's wrong.

[PJR]

what do we want?
How about Wade, being a SG and all that jazz, finally learns how to hit a damn jumper? Dude is already declining and blowing more layups at the rim than ever in his career, yet he still can't shoot worth a damn. And if one player is superior to another, you go on and tell me, which one should be adapting his game for the good of his team?

You're an idiot...And I say that being one of the biggest LeGod fans on this planet.

And Wade has changed his game to appease the presence of LeBron FYI.

[LakersReign]

Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..


Yeah....trade away the one guy who actually wanted the ball and was actually doing something in last year's Finals. While Lebron just stood around all shook....right?:applause:

Makes sense if you don't think about it:facepalm

[LamarOdom]

Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time... lebron can only hope to be half the finals performer he is

You really think Jordan is the third best SG all time?

[Legends66NBA7]

Playoffs are just around the corner, guys.

I think this Heat team will be fine, with both clicking on all cylinders.

Playoff time comes, I doubt anybody is holding anybody else back.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Actually... without Lebron Miami would have not even been in the Finals or even ECF.... the way he closed out the Celtics to get to ECF and the way he murdered Bulls (while Wade was absolutely horrible) got them to the Finals.... actually without Lebron there at all Wade was not able to get past 1st round since 2006...........

Please dont make this a Wade vs Lebron bash fest.... i love them, they are my favorite players..... but i DONT think they complement eachother so well.....

LeBron closed out the Celtics but don't forget Wade destroyed them in that series too.

And as far as Chicago, yes Wade didn't play as well as he had before but he made some clutch plays and played good defense on Rose. LeBron wasn't guarding him for the entirety of each game.

And don't forget Bosh in that Chicago series. He was a beast. Not just on offense but as well as his shot blocking/changing on Rose whenever Rose would drive.

They all played their parts don't try and act like it's all because of LeBron that they got to the finals in the first place.

[PJR]

LeBron closed out the Celtics but don't forget Wade destroyed them in that series too.

And as far as Chicago, yes Wade didn't play as well as he had before but he made some clutch plays and played good defense on Rose. LeBron wasn't guarding him for the entirety of each game.

And don't forget Bosh in that Chicago series. He was a beast. Not just on offense but as well as his shot blocking/changing on Rose whenever Rose would drive.

They all played their parts don't try and act like it's all because of LeBron that they got to the finals in the first place.

:applause:

[Alamo]

...there i said it...

especially in the 4th quarter...

sorry if i hurt somebodies feelings.. but this is true...

Obviously, Miami Heat is probably better with Wade in there aswell...

Lebron sacrificed his typical video game performances & numbers teaming up with Wade...

Its a sacrifice for a Championship......

But boy do i hope he wins a Championship.... because if he doesnt then what he sacrificed all in all coming in to Miami was really not worth it... becoming hated, losing alot of fans, losing money and losing his video game performances......... many of us miss that Cleveland Lebron... and he cant be that guy so often with a super balldominant perimeter player at his side...

I hope that sacrifice was worth it.... you better win a championship! :D

Why are stats so important to you?

[RRR3]

Without Wade this year....

LeBron: 30.7 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.3 APG, 52.9 FG%, 35.0 3PT%
Bosh: 24.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 2.6 APG, 58.4 FG%, 42.9 3PT%
Chalmers: 14.0 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 4.9 APG, 49.0 FG%, 39.1 3PT%


Just sayin'.

Obviously Wade is very valuable to the Heat, and is often their best player (LBJ is the best on the Heat, but Wade has stretches where he's better) and the leader of the team. I just notice that not only LeBron, but in particular Bosh and Chalmers have stepped up w/o Wade this season.

[Indian guy]

:facepalm

He has one game where he takes and makes jumpers beyond what he's been capable of all season and suddenly Wade's holding LeBron back :rolleyes:

LeBron's problem is LeBron. He's a jump shooter who's not good enough at it to be the superstar everyone wants him to be.

[RRR3]

:facepalm

He has one game where he takes and makes jumpers beyond what he's been capable of all season and suddenly Wade's holding LeBron back :rolleyes:

LeBron's problem is LeBron. He's a jump shooter who's not good enough at it to be the superstar everyone wants him to be.
LeBron was attacking the rim like a boss yesterday against an elite defensive team, funny what you see if you actually watch him play:lol

[TheMan]

Pauk, are you on Bron's payroll? If not, you should hit him up bexause all you do is make excuses for your boy.

[madmax]

:facepalm

He has one game where he takes and makes jumpers beyond what he's been capable of all season and suddenly Wade's holding LeBron back :rolleyes:

LeBron's problem is LeBron. He's a jump shooter who's not good enough at it to be the superstar everyone wants him to be.

:wtf:
the hell is up with this dude?:roll:

[D-Wade316]

the ball should be in HIS hands...
Did you not saw the 2011 NBA Finals? :rolleyes: Lebron needs to learn how to play off-the ball. There will be stretches were he doesn't dominate the ball, so for him to produce he must find his spots. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that.

[PHaYze]

Did you not saw the 2011 NBA Finals? :rolleyes: Lebron needs to learn how to play off-the ball. There will be stretches were he doesn't dominate the ball, so for him to produce he must find his spots. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that.
Did you not saw the year that LeBron took the Cavs to the finals and nearly won?

LeBron is the star on this team, he needs to play his game and everyone else needs to adapt, Wade needs to get better, Bosh needs to man up.

[Kingwillball]

:facepalm

He has one game where he takes and makes jumpers beyond what he's been capable of all season and suddenly Wade's holding LeBron back :rolleyes:

LeBron's problem is LeBron. He's a jump shooter who's not good enough at it to be the superstar everyone wants him to be.


Indian Guy Your Getting Worse and Worse dude.. Time to let it Go and Move on .. Accept He's Gone !

[Jolokia]

I expect him to torch Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Andre Iguodala, and Marvin Williams everytime he plays them. All they do is try to contain you with length and good footwork with minimal body contact. Melo and Pierce will usually neutralize his productions/impact.

Lebron needs to toughen up and stopped being scared of contact against tough players like Metta, Deshawn Steves, Caron Butler, Pierce, Turkoglu, Marion, etc who don't give a shit about Lebron's best player status. Lebron becomes one-dimensional against fearless smack talkers and hopes his jumpshot is falling.

He'll definitely struggle against Western teams. He's threatened by Durant's rise to superstardom potential MVP season and best player status. Caron Butler will not back down from a fight. Tony Allen is too defensively skilled. Marion doesn't even care what Lebron is. Metta World Peace is Ron Artest.

Lebron James better be prepared for a looooong finals.

[pegasus]

I expect him to torch Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Andre Iguodala, and Marvin Williams everytime he plays them. All they do is try to contain you with length and good footwork with minimal body contact. Melo and Pierce will usually neutralize his productions/impact.

Lebron needs to toughen up and stopped being scared of contact against tough players like Metta, Deshawn Steves, Caron Butler, Pierce, Turkoglu, Marion, etc who don't give a shit about Lebron's best player status. Lebron becomes one-dimensional against fearless smack talkers and hopes his jumpshot is falling.

He'll definitely struggle against Western teams. He's threatened by Durant's rise to superstardom potential MVP season and best player status. Caron Butler will not back down from a fight. Tony Allen is too defensively skilled. Marion doesn't even care what Lebron is. Metta World Peace is Ron Artest.

Lebron James better be prepared for a looooong finals.

That just made me :lol

Good post, though. I agree that Deng needs to rough him up some.

[Legends66NBA7]

Did you not saw the 2011 NBA Finals? Lebron needs to learn how to play off-the ball. There will be stretches were he doesn't dominate the ball, so for him to produce he must find his spots. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that.

This is what I've been trying to tell people too.

LeBron sucks as an off the ball player, unless he's in transition. He literally just stands in the corner when Coach Sop doesn't run a play for him. Rarely even attempts to crash the boards for an offensive rebound, despite his size advantage.

Wade's 2 Finals blow LeBron's out of the water.

Yet Wade has to adjust ? How is that possible ? What happens if LeBron goes white again like last year in the Finals?

Not saying Wade is perfect, he's not the greatest off the ball player (better than LeBron), but he steps up much better in big stages. He's shown us that so far, that you can't deny it.

[Alamo]

Did you not saw the year that LeBron took the Cavs to the finals and nearly won?
.

What year was that?

[EnoughSaid]

People really need to calm the **** down. Both of these guys played exceptionally well in the Playoffs last year, TOGETHER. Do you not see the point? They CAN play well on the same team, and will if they want a championship. Simple as that. Everyone else can be cool with it (because that's what LeBron himself chose) or GTFO.