It's crazy how Kobe is the only top 5 player in this league to have at least a ring

[k0kakw0rld]

Kobe 5
LeBron 0
Durant 0
Rose 0
Paul 0

[fsvr54]

:biggums:

Wade has a ring

Edit: Way to edit it lol, keep it back on so everybody can see

[k0kakw0rld]

:biggums:

Wade has a ring
He is not top 5 i am sorry

[PickernRoller]

:biggums:

Wade has a ring

My boy Wade is not playing like top 5 though....even if I liked him to be. Other deserving players playing too well to look down at. OP is correct.

[SacJB Shady]

Kobe 5
LeBron 0
Durant 0
Rose 0
Paul 0


But Kobe played with Shaq and Gasol and had Phil as a coach. You see, Lebron has 0 but might win one this year.

[k0kakw0rld]

Kobe 5
LeBron 0
Durant 0
Rose 0
Love/Westbrook 0

Better? I thought about it and Chris Paul is not top 5 :oldlol:

[fsvr54]

My boy Wade is not playing like top 5 though....even if I liked him he to be. Other deserving players playing too well to look down at. OP is correct.

The thing is the OP had Wade with zero rings in his original post

[k0kakw0rld]

But Kobe played with Shaq and Gasol and had Phil as a coach. You see, Lebron has 0 but might win one this year.
The key word :facepalm The same thing we said for the past 5 years or so MIGHT He is still ringless :oldlol: Don't get me wrong LeBron is my guy but still :lol

[SacJB Shady]

The thing is the OP had Wade with zero rings in his original post


Wade played with Shaq, Morning, and Payton. Of course he won one with all those hall of famers.

[k0kakw0rld]

The thing is the OP had Wade with zero rings in his original post
I made a mistake, i wanted to put Paul instead :oldlol:

[PickernRoller]

The thing is the OP had Wade with zero rings in his original post

Edits must be working wonders I guess...:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

Wade is a top 5 player in this league.

[Mamba]

Kobe 5
LeBron 0
Durant 0
Rose 0
Paul 0
id put dwight instead of paul but i see what u mean

i just feel as if certain organisations haven't built proper teams around these young superstars for them to be able to compete for a ring properly it always seem like these teams are missing that final piece

eg

Lebron a legit 2nd scorer or a legit center or a legit point guard something always happens to **** it up except for last years finals

rose a legit 2nd option 3 point shooting and a bench that doesnt dissapear in the playoffs

paul same as rose

durant experiment is yet to be seen but with just a 3 man scoring crew its a lil hard to believe there gna win it all

[Force]

Also crazy to think about...

How many rings would those other players have won if they played with a prime Shaq as long as Kobe did. I'm positive some would have won more than 3. Man, freak injuries during the playoffs to the majority of the Heat starting line up is the only reason why Wade didn't win back to back titles with a "just past prime" Shaq. Think about that.

Wow, I destroyed the OP. Hooray!

[D-Wade316]

LOL

Wade is the 2nd best player behind Lebron. Durant, and Dwight have yet to prove themselves on the playoffs, yet they're already better than Wade? :roll:

[francesco totti]

they still got tons of years in them.compae kobe to dirk duncan kg and his generation..

[madmax]

TOP 5 LOL?:lol
More like TOP 20

[iamgine]

Not that crazy.

in 93 Jordan was the only player to have ring. Barkley, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson had no ring.

Also, kobe isn't top 5.

[comerb]

Wade played with Shaq, Morning, and Payton. Of course he won one with all those hall of famers.

Morning was 35 and Payton was 37.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I still consider Wade top 5. He's had some injuries this season, but nobody outside of Lebron and Durant have really had big years for players of that caliber so a down year isn't enough for me to drop him out of the top 5. Clear top 3 to me this season is Lebron, Durant and Dwight in that order. After that, it's pretty debatable with Wade, Kobe, Rose and Paul off the top of my head. He had such a slow start, but I can't completely forget about Dirk either, he's been much better after that slow start, though he obviously hasn't had a top 5 season.



durant experiment is yet to be seen but with just a 3 man scoring crew its a lil hard to believe there gna win it all

Not really, many championship teams in the past 20 years have had only 2-3 scorers.


LOL

Wade is the 2nd best player behind Lebron. Durant, and Dwight have yet to prove themselves on the playoffs, yet they're already better than Wade? :roll:

Wade's past accomplishments don't mean he's top 2 right now. With that said, I don't think he's declined much overall yet and it wouldn't surprise me if he plays better than Durant in the playoffs.

I'm not sure how Dwight is unproven in the playoffs. He's gotten to the finals and played in 2 conference finals. If by unproven, you mean he hasn't won a ring, then Lebron is unproven as well since he hasn't gotten any farther than Dwight has. Even Kevin Durant got to the WCF last year, so it may be a stretch to call him unproven.

[I<3NBA]

it's crazy how OP forgot Kobe has in been in the league longer than the guys he listed while those guys with zero rings still has a lot of chances to get one.

[kumquat]

Don't be confused duncan is still ahead of these noobs. Duncan still> shot jacker Kobe /thread
http://aroundthesideline.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/amd_tim-duncan.jpg

[D-Wade316]

Wade's past accomplishments don't mean he's top 2 right now. With that said, I don't think he's declined much overall yet and it wouldn't surprise me if he plays better than Durant in the playoffs.
Actually, I believe that Wade is having a better season compared to last year. Many don't realize that because of lesser minutes and injuries. He has regained his jumper, although his inconsistent with it. Playing off-the ball has really improved his efficiency. His post-game is second to none in the SG position(yes better than Kobe). Better defense and ft shooting. If only he wasn't injured at the start of the season.

10-15ft
2011 - 38.5
2012 - 42.2

16-23ft
2011 - 37.0
2012 - 41.0

per 36min
2011 - 24.7pts, 6.2reb, 4.4ast, 1.4stl, 1.1blk, 3.0tov, 58.1ts%, 75.8ft%
2012 - 24.5pts, 5.3reb, 5.1ast, 1.8stl, 1.5blk, 2.9tov, 56.5ts%, 79.5ft%

If we factor in injuries and games played, Wade is clearly not top-3. But if we talk about production and dominance, he's still 2nd.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Actually, I believe that Wade is having a better season compared to last year. Many don't realize that because of lesser minutes and injuries. He has regained his jumper, although his inconsistent with it. Playing off-the ball has really improved his efficiency. His post-game is second to none in the SG position(yes better than Kobe). Better defense and ft shooting. If only he wasn't injured at the start of the season.


Yeah, his jumper has been better, and he's improved his post game as well and been quite effective there this season, but no, he's not as good as Kobe in the post, and it's not close or debatable.

As far as minutes being lower, well, there's a reason for that, and it's because he hasn't been able to play more since he hasn't been durable this season.

I thought Wade was top 3-4 last season, and top 4 at best so far this season, but we haven't even reached the playoffs yet.

Wade being top 2 in general is debatable, but basing it on level of play this current season, I wouldn't agree with top 2.

[miles berg]

Dirk & Wade have rings, sorry, your topic is off.

[d21221hk]

lol what paul and rose? :lol

[Rnbizzle]

I still consider Wade top 5. He's had some injuries this season, but nobody outside of Lebron and Durant have really had big years for players of that caliber so a down year isn't enough for me to drop him out of the top 5. Clear top 3 to me this season is Lebron, Durant and Dwight in that order. After that, it's pretty debatable with Wade, Kobe, Rose and Paul off the top of my head. He had such a slow start, but I can't completely forget about Dirk either, he's been much better after that slow start, though he obviously hasn't had a top 5 season.



Not really, many championship teams in the past 20 years have had only 2-3 scorers.



Wade's past accomplishments don't mean he's top 2 right now. With that said, I don't think he's declined much overall yet and it wouldn't surprise me if he plays better than Durant in the playoffs.

I'm not sure how Dwight is unproven in the playoffs. He's gotten to the finals and played in 2 conference finals. If by unproven, you mean he hasn't won a ring, then Lebron is unproven as well since he hasn't gotten any farther than Dwight has. Even Kevin Durant got to the WCF last year, so it may be a stretch to call him unproven.
That's taking it too far. I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'd say Durant has surpassed Wade at this point. Even last year Durant was pretty awesome in the playoffs and he's gotten substantially better.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Wade played with Shaq, Morning, and Payton. Of course he won one with all those hall of famers.
How many of those guys were top 10 when they won that Championship? Your point is irrelevant.

[Bigsmoke]

u heard of Wade?


How many of those guys were top 10 when they won that Championship? Your point is irrelevant.

Shaq

he played like shit in the Finals but he was still unstoppable in those other series and able to put in 20/9 in only 30 mintutes.

[coin24]

Bynum>Dwight :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

The mamba be swaggin all over the league at 33 :bowdown:

by 33 years old lebron will be a role player, 0 rings, and completely bald

[RRR3]

The mamba be brickin all over the league at 33 :bowdown:
fixed.

[detroitdogg]

Yeah, his jumper has been better, and he's improved his post game as well and been quite effective there this season, but no, he's not as good as Kobe in the post, and it's not close or debatable.

As far as minutes being lower, well, there's a reason for that, and it's because he hasn't been able to play more since he hasn't been durable this season.

I thought Wade was top 3-4 last season, and top 4 at best so far this season, but we haven't even reached the playoffs yet.

Wade being top 2 in general is debatable, but basing it on level of play this current season, I wouldn't agree with top 2.
Wade easily had the 2nd best season overall last year and thats not debateable. His numbers shytted on Rose's and as always, he was th only person who could compete with Bron numbers wise. Damn, the fukk is wrong wit you nyggas, Wade dominated last year and is having a great year this year. Fukk outta here with the bullshyt.


How the fukk is Rose having a better season this year????? His numbers are worse, he has played wayyyy less games, and when he was healthy he was not dominant. Fukk outta here, if Rose is top 5 this year Wade is top 3. There is no way possible anyone with common sense could put Rose over Wade this season or last. Damn yall dudes are dumb as fukk.

[hkfosho]

Rose will have a ring after this post season, so I'm not worried :D

[detroitdogg]

Rose will have a ring after this post season, so I'm not worried :D
Im gone laugh when they get embrassed. Bulls fans are the most confident nyggas in the world so props to you nyggas. But them dudes will win 1 game at most against MIA. They are no better than they were last year and they still cant score outside of Rose. MIA and CHI are equal defensively, CHI rebounds better. MIA is a lot better offensively, I mean, its not close at all. They will be lucky to win 1 game.

[longtime lurker]

How many rings would Kg or Dirk or Karl Malone or Chris Webber or Barkley have if they played with a player the calibre of kobe? The Shaq argument is old and frankly pretty stupid.

[Tenchi Ryu]

How the fukk is Rose having a better season this year????? His numbers are worse, he has played wayyyy less games, and when he was healthy he was not dominant. Fukk outta here, if Rose is top 5 this year Wade is top 3. There is no way possible anyone with common sense could put Rose over Wade this season or last. Damn yall dudes are dumb as fukk.
Somebody dumb as fukk alright....

And you're a fukking moron if you actually believe the bold is true.

[Legends66NBA7]

How many rings would Kg or Dirk or Karl Malone or Chris Webber or Barkley have if they played with a player the calibre of kobe? The Shaq argument is old and frankly pretty stupid.

I would say if Kobe gets along with all of them..,

Probably 3-4 rings, maybe 5 as well, IMO with Garnett, Dirk, Barkley, and Malone.

Webber ? 1-2 rings, maybe 3, IMO.

[Scholar]

Wade is a top 5 player in this league.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17925374.jpg

[LakersReign]

Im gone laugh when they get embrassed. Bulls fans are the most confident nyggas in the world so props to you nyggas. But them dudes will win 1 game at most against MIA. They are no better than they were last year and they still cant score outside of Rose. MIA and CHI are equal defensively, CHI rebounds better. MIA is a lot better offensively, I mean, its not close at all. They will be lucky to win 1 game.


Yeah....uh huh....right sure.:rolleyes:

And fake Heat fans aka Lebronytes aren't?:hammerhead:


Try again:no:

[nba_55]

top 5 :oldlol:
How is he top 5 and the best player on his team isnt? :biggums:

Bynum > Kobe

[nba_55]

Rose will have a ring after this post season, so I'm not worried :D

http://i31.tinypic.com/30uzr6c.gif

[Celtics 1825]

At least one of them will win a ring this year. And they've all been playing several years less than Kobe has. So yeah.

[For_Three]

http://i31.tinypic.com/30uzr6c.gif


hahahah

[Duncan21formvp]

Kobe isn't top 5 in the league anymore. He isn't even the best player on his team. Both Bynum and Gasol are top 2 in Win Shares.

[k0kakw0rld]

Also crazy to think about...

How many rings would those other players have won if they played with a prime Shaq as long as Kobe did. I'm positive some would have won more than 3. Man, freak injuries during the playoffs to the majority of the Heat starting line up is the only reason why Wade didn't win back to back titles with a "just past prime" Shaq. Think about that.

Wow, I destroyed the OP. Hooray!
:wtf: So how do you explain his 2 rings without Shaq? :facepalm You people need to stop with the "IFs" and "the would've" it is so hilarious. :oldlol:

I'm not a Kobe Fan.

[k0kakw0rld]

Kobe isn't top 5 in the league anymore. He isn't even the best player on his team. Both Bynum and Gasol are top 2 in Win Shares.
:facepalm

[detroitdogg]

Somebody dumb as fukk alright....

And you're a fukking moron if you actually believe the bold is true.
So Rose is/was having a better season that Wade???? Fukk outta here lil nygga, 2 seasons straight Wade has beat Rose in damn near every single stat across the board, yet Rose is better. The logic of some of you nyggas are retarded.

And fukk stats, it dont mean shyt to me, but in this conversation you are saying Rose has been dominant yet Wade is not aa top 5 player, even though Wades numbers has been more dominating than Rose all years of his career, this year and last year, fukk outta here with that dumb ass logic.

[Orlando Magic]

Things wrong with the original post.

1) Kobe Bryant isn't a top 5 player in the league.
2) Derrick Rose isn't a top 5 player in the league.
3) Dwyane Wade is a top 5 player in the league, and he has a ring.
4) Dwight Howard is a top 5 player in the league.

[rawimpact]

Things wrong with the original post.

1) Kobe Bryant isn't a top 5 player in the league. False
2) Derrick Rose isn't a top 5 player in the league.
3) Dwyane Wade is a top 5 player in the league, and he has a ring. False
4) Dwight Howard is a top 5 player in the league.

:no:

[Orlando Magic]

:no:

http://media1.break.com/breakstudios/2011/9/13/chuck-norris-5774.jpg

Kobe and this man have something in common. I'll leave it to you to figure out.

[lakerspng]

Things wrong with the original post.

1) Kobe Bryant isn't a top 5 player in the league.
2) Derrick Rose isn't a top 5 player in the league.
3) Dwyane Wade is a top 5 player in the league, and he has a ring.
4) Dwight Howard is a top 5 player in the league.

you can't actually believe this.

[k0kakw0rld]

Nothings wrong with the original post.

1) Kobe Bryant is a top 5 player in the league.
2) Derrick Rose a top 5 player in the league.
3) Dwyane Wade isn't a top 5 player in the league, and he has a ring.
4) Dwight Howard isn't a top 5 player in the league.

Fixed.

[Tenchi Ryu]

So Rose is/was having a better season that Wade???? Fukk outta here lil nygga, 2 seasons straight Wade has beat Rose in damn near every single stat across the board, yet Rose is better. The logic of some of you nyggas are retarded.

And fukk stats, it dont mean shyt to me, but in this conversation you are saying Rose has been dominant yet Wade is not aa top 5 player, even though Wades numbers has been more dominating than Rose all years of his career, this year and last year, fukk outta here with that dumb ass logic.
Dumb clowns like you using Wade's past accolades to try and justify him being as good this year is what's dumb ass logic. Wade hasn't done shit this year to be a guaranteed top 5. The only thing you can use is his FG%, who the fukk can't get a 50% FG percentage when you get easy ass lobs and cherry picks thrown at you...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe isn't top 5 in the league anymore. He isn't even the best player on his team. Both Bynum and Gasol are top 2 in Win Shares.
:roll: jordansbulls

why are jordan jockers so ****in stupid?

[Heavincent]

Dumb clowns like you using Wade's past accolades to try and justify him being as good this year is what's dumb ass logic. Wade hasn't done shit this year to be a guaranteed top 5. The only thing you can use is his FG%, who the fukk can't get a 50% FG percentage when you get easy ass lobs and cherry picks thrown at you...

Exactly. I don't give a **** about stats, give me Kobe or Rose over Wade.

[detroitdogg]

Dumb clowns like you using Wade's past accolades to try and justify him being as good this year is what's dumb ass logic. Wade hasn't done shit this year to be a guaranteed top 5. The only thing you can use is his FG%, who the fukk can't get a 50% FG percentage when you get easy ass lobs and cherry picks thrown at you...
**** the past, that has no relevence on my point. Rose has missed damn near 15 more games than Wade, his numbers are worse, and he was not a major difference while playing. Both Wade and Rose are pretty much in the exact same scenario right now, both teams play well without either, and both has missed a lot of games. Wade has been a top 5 player for 8 years, Rose has to actually have that much of a better year to mark Wade down.

You are on the nygga dyck, nygga aint played in a month, but yet he is better than Wade who continues to play well throughout the season. Like I said before, fukk outta here with that weak ass logic. Wade has better numbers, has been more clutch, has been a much better defender, and his team is only a few games behind Roses team (who continues to beat good teams without him).

LMAO at you nyggas using the Bulls record to say Rose is having a better year, even though their winning percentage is higher without him (same as Wade, bigger sample size) and he has missed 35% of the season.

[G-Funk]

Better? I thought about it and Chris Paul is not top 5 :oldlol:

Add D12 intead of CP3

[RRR3]

Exactly. I don't give a **** about stats, give me Kobe or Rose over Wade.
Sure, your team will lose though:lol

[Legends66NBA7]

Sure, your team will lose though

His team is the Nets.

Their tanking for Davis.

[k0kakw0rld]

Add D12 intead of CP3
Not this year at least. He is not top 5 this year.

[Kews1]

It's crazy how lebron is younger and has more mvps...

[RRR3]

His team is the Nets.

Their tanking for Davis.
His team is Kobe.

[Heavincent]

Sure, your team will lose though:lol

5 rings. What did you say about winning?

[Tenchi Ryu]

You are on the nygga dyck, nygga aint played in a month, but yet he is better than Wade who continues to play well throughout the season. Like I said before, fukk outta here with that weak ass logic. Wade has better numbers, has been more clutch, has been a much better defender, and his team is only a few games behind Roses team (who continues to beat good teams without him).
Bulls are 15-7 without Rose, 26-6 with him, how the hell is that better. Wade has been inconsistent as fukk when it comes to overall productivity. Rose hasn't had no where near as many stinkers as Wade had this year, and its definitely been a good amount. How many times we've had Heat fans on here blaming Wade for the loss...way more than Bulls fans blaming Rose....

And what the fukk does a player missing games due to injury have to do with how good they are....thats some dumb ass logic....a good player is a good player, who fukkin cares that they missed games.

Rose has been more clutch, been a better leader, and pulled his team up from losing a game FAR more than Wade has this year.

[Legends66NBA7]

His team is Kobe.

His team is the Nets.

[RRR3]

http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/hurr-durr-derp-face-sup-daaaawwwwwg-i-derped.jpg
:facepalm Current Koclunk is not better than Wade. Stop living in the past, apostle.

[Heavincent]

His team is Kobe.

I watched like every Nets game between 98 and 08 actually.

[magnax1]

Was Wade in a fatal car accident that I'm not aware of?

[Heavincent]

:facepalm Current Koclunk is not better than Wade. Stop living in the past, apostle.

You know, I might actually feel bad for Wade if he wasn't such a douche. Still being overshadowed by old man Kobe. Ouch :lol

16th season Kobe > 8th season Wade

Wade must be so bitter about that. His stans are too.

[Legends66NBA7]

Was Wade in a fatal car accident that I'm not aware of?

Must have been.

:oldlol:

[pauk]

But then again nobody of those top 5 players have even close to 16 seasons under their belt...... nor did they ever had the most dominant Center ever handing 3 rings to them on a silverplate....

http://dnbforum.com/images/smilies/oops.gif

[Heavincent]

But then again nobody of those top 5 players have even close to 16 seasons under their belt...... nor did they ever had the most dominant Center ever handing 3 rings to them on a silverplate....

http://dnbforum.com/images/smilies/oops.gif

Nor are they as good as prime Kobe.

[ganja0710]

But then again nobody of those top 5 players have even close to 16 seasons under their belt...... nor did they ever had the most dominant Center ever handing 3 rings to them on a silverplate....

http://dnbforum.com/images/smilies/oops.gif
:oldlol:

Ohp, to put it that way, we won't count LeBron's if he ever wins any. :oldlol: Perfect player who knows about getting handed the "silverplate". :oldlol: Or in his case, running towards the silverplate. lmao

[pauk]

Nor are they as good as prime Kobe.

Durant, Rose, Paul? Hm... arguable.. arguable...








But Lebron? lol...

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2012/3/15/3/nice-try-applefags-10826-1331798016-35.jpg

[blablabla]

Durant, Rose, Paul? Hm... arguable.. arguable...








But Lebron? lol...


:facepalm
lebron is arguable but those other guys come on son
durant and rose haven't even hit their prime

[RRR3]

:mad:
mad.

















next.

[Heavincent]

Durant, Rose, Paul? Hm... arguable.. arguable...








But Lebron? lol...

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2012/3/15/3/nice-try-applefags-10826-1331798016-35.jpg

Prime Kobe is for sure better than all of those guys. Most people that witnessed Kobe in his prime would agree.

[ganja0710]

mad.

















next.
^Butthurt? Ya he butthurt.

:roll:

[KingBeasley08]

since when was kobe a top 5 player this year lol

[DuMa]

since when was kobe a top 5 player this year lol

this

[PickernRoller]

Clowns are on the loose again....I thought the circus was yesterday?

[KingBeasley08]

Prime Kobe is for sure better than all of those guys. Most people that witnessed Kobe in his prime would agree.
:roll:

Prime Lebron >>>>>>
Prime Durant will be better as well

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll:

Prime Lebron >>>>>>
Prime Durant will be better as well
Kobe's prime: 4 rings
Lebron: 0.0000000

[Dresta]

No he isn't, Kobe isn't even top 5 at the moment. What an idiotic thread.

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe is not a top 5 player in the league anymore, maybe not even top 10. Nobody in the top 5 has a ring which goes to show you that we are in a new basketball era.

[Heavincent]

Prime Lebron >>>>>>


http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web03/2012/4/4/10/anigif_enhanced-buzz-7339-1333548602-14.gif

[AllenIverson3]

Who cares hes been a 2nd fiddle in all of them

[KingBeasley08]

Kobe's prime: 4 rings
Lebron: 0.0000000
It ain't about the rings but the skill. Jordan in the late 80s had 0 rings but was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Kobe

[ganja0710]

Kobe is not a top 5 player in the league anymore, maybe not even top 10.
I'm not even a Kobe stan but... :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

No he isn't, Kobe isn't even top 5 at the moment. What an idiotic thread.



Kobe is not a top 5 player in the league anymore, maybe not even top 10. Nobody in the top 5 has a ring which goes to show you that we are in a new basketball era.


dumb and dumber

[Deuce Bigalow]

It ain't about the rings but the skill. Jordan in the late 80s had 0 rings but was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Kobe
lebron 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0

next

:lol

[KingBeasley08]

lebron 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0

next

:lol
:oldlol:

Nice rebuttal. Next

[Deuce Bigalow]

:oldlol:

Nice rebuttal. Next

2ez

get in my pocket son

next

[Smoke117]

If anyone isn't top 5 in the league, it's god damn Kobe Bryant. With his crap efficiency, his mediocre defense, his lack of play making and his age, what makes this clown top 5 besides the countless cry baby Kobe fans. Somebody tell me that.

[blablabla]

It ain't about the rings but the skill. Jordan in the late 80s had 0 rings but was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Kobe
kobe was 8years old back then

[KingBeasley08]

2ez

get in my pocket son

next
straight outta compton

blowin nigs up since 94

next

[TonyD]

Kobe is not to 5 anymore.

[Dresta]

dumb and dumber
What a pathetic excuse for a response. Just because there is no possible rebuttal to the fact your God Kobe Bryant is barely shooting 43% while desperately chucking up shots to remain in the limelight and lead the scoring charts. Doing this, while shackling the best player on the Lakers to the role of subordinate.

It is depressing to me that this guy is getting so much undeserved acclaim, its unfair on the players that have surpassed him (of which there are now many). How can the meda be so blind to this? The guy is taking the 2nd most shots per game of his entire career, when he is an old man, and when he has Bynum and Gasol on his team. By doing this he is jeopardising his team, franchise, coach and teammates. What a bum.

Kobe must have one of the biggest inferiority complexes of all time. Guy needs to see a shrink or something.

[AlphaWolf24]

What a pathetic excuse for a response. Just because there is no possible rebuttal to the fact your God Kobe Bryant is barely shooting 43% while desperately chucking up shots to remain in the limelight and lead the scoring charts. Doing this, while shackling the best player on the Lakers to the role of subordinate.

It is depressing to me that this guy is getting so much undeserved acclaim, its unfair on the players that have surpassed him (of which there are now many). How can the meda be so blind to this? The guy is taking the 2nd most shots per game of his entire career, when he is an old man, and when he has Bynum and Gasol on his team. By doing this he is jeopardising his team, franchise, coach and teammates. What a bum.

Kobe must have one of the biggest inferiority complexes of all time. Guy needs to see a shrink or something.


If only Kobe saw a shrink years ago...If only he stopped shooting so much...

he would have 10 Rings by now...

Darn Kobe and his FG%...only 5 championships in 7 NBA Finals in the past 13 years as a starter....what a bum.

[RazorBaLade]

What a pathetic excuse for a response. Just because there is no possible rebuttal to the fact your God Kobe Bryant is barely shooting 43% while desperately chucking up shots to remain in the limelight and lead the scoring charts. Doing this, while shackling the best player on the Lakers to the role of subordinate.

It is depressing to me that this guy is getting so much undeserved acclaim, its unfair on the players that have surpassed him (of which there are now many). How can the meda be so blind to this? The guy is taking the 2nd most shots per game of his entire career, when he is an old man, and when he has Bynum and Gasol on his team. By doing this he is jeopardising his team, franchise, coach and teammates. What a bum.

Kobe must have one of the biggest inferiority complexes of all time. Guy needs to see a shrink or something.

Why is 43% bad? I mean sure the greatest player ever made about 1 and a half more shots per game than kobe... Seriously? One and a half more makes per game is the difference between a chucking inefficient player and the best basketball player of all time?

Its really not a big deal dude. Anything around 40% and over is good. If anyone takes 3's shooting that then its even better because 3s are extremely efficient. Is it goat level? No but only jordan is goat level.. He had it all. Lebron has the efficiency but he doesn't have the variety of moves or the mentality or the memorable moments... Kobe has the moves and the mentality and memorable moments but not the efficiency... it doesnt make him a POS to not be jordan, buddy.

[DMAVS41]

If only Kobe saw a shrink years ago...If only he stopped shooting so much...

he would have 10 Rings by now...

Darn Kobe and his FG%...only 5 championships in 7 NBA Finals in the past 13 years as a starter....what a bum.

This argument is beyond lame.

Kobe's field goal percentage hasn't mattered as much as it does for most because his margin of error is so big.

Winning and losing is extremely fragile. One play can alter a game or even a series in the playoffs.

If you give Kobe just slightly less help throughout his career. You are looking at potentially not winning it in at least a few years.

Like when Kobe had games of:

4 of 9
2 of 9
5 of 15
4 of 13

All against the Blazers in 00. Most star players that win titles don't have the luxury of having 4 games like that in a series and still beating a very good team. Most star players don't have guys dropping 41/11/7 in their supporting cast either like Shaq did in the Blazers series.

And I could go on and on. Using rings to prove Kobes's greatness is silly. He's great in his own right based on his level of play. But acting like most star players could shoot 44.8% from the field for their careers in the playoffs and have the success Kobe has had is absurd. And its even worse for Kobe given the fact that he's always had elite offensive teams around him more than capable 2nd options to alleviate pressure.

Which is why Kobe is who he is. A truly great player that deserves to be mentioned with some of the greatest players ever. A player that plays his own style virtually no matter what. He's either hitting or he's not. Like these last few games....Kobe has been beyond good. What has changed? Nothing. He's taking the same fadeaway jumpshots going 1 on 1...he's just making them lately.

It wouldn't matter if Kobe had prime stockton and prime shaq on his team. He'd still shoot roughly 44 to 46 percent from the field. That is who he is. Has it helped get 5 rings? You bet....but don't overlook the obvious. That he's had the luxury of supremely talented teams and great coaching as well. You don't play alone. Kobe could quite easily have no rings or only 1 ring if he had to play his career on the teams a guy like Iverson did.

[DMAVS41]

Why is 43% bad? I mean sure the greatest player ever made about 1 and a half more shots per game than kobe... Seriously? One and a half more makes per game is the difference between a chucking inefficient player and the best basketball player of all time?

Its really not a big deal dude. Anything around 40% and over is good. If anyone takes 3's shooting that then its even better because 3s are extremely efficient. Is it goat level? No but only jordan is goat level.. He had it all. Lebron has the efficiency but he doesn't have the variety of moves or the mentality or the memorable moments... Kobe has the moves and the mentality and memorable moments but not the efficiency... it doesnt make him a POS to not be jordan, buddy.

You don't look at stats on a per game basis. You'd have to do a statistical analysis that would look something like this:

Games over 60%
Games over 55%
Games over 50%
Games under 50%
Games under 45%
Games under 40%
Games under 35%
Games under 30%

Etc.....

That is when efficiency becomes relevant. Using the averages to act like its just the same thing every game....that doesn't work. Because you are right. If Kobe shot 43% every single game....its just not that big of a deal compared to someone shooting 47% most of the time. Too many other things are far more important in a single game than 1 or 2 shots.

But when you look at the numbers above and do it properly...then it becomes more relevant.

The simple truth is that shooting 23 to 24 shots a game on 43% fg% is not good for a star player. When you combine the volume with the efficiency its just not the way you want a sg playing....especially given the offensive talent the Lakers have.

[SwayDizzle]

Why is 43% bad? I mean sure the greatest player ever made about 1 and a half more shots per game than kobe... Seriously? One and a half more makes per game is the difference between a chucking inefficient player and the best basketball player of all time?

Its really not a big deal dude. Anything around 40% and over is good. If anyone takes 3's shooting that then its even better because 3s are extremely efficient. Is it goat level? No but only jordan is goat level.. He had it all. Lebron has the efficiency but he doesn't have the variety of moves or the mentality or the memorable moments... Kobe has the moves and the mentality and memorable moments but not the efficiency... it doesnt make him a POS to not be jordan, buddy.
Good post mate. The thing is that everyone holds Kobe to such high standards because he is an incredible baller with an impeccable resume. If he doesn't surpass the GOAT Mike Jordan then he has failed kind of attitude, which is ridiculous.

[AlphaWolf24]

This argument is beyond lame.

Kobe's field goal percentage hasn't mattered as much as it does for most because his margin of error is so big.

Winning and losing is extremely fragile. One play can alter a game or even a series in the playoffs.

If you give Kobe just slightly less help throughout his career. You are looking at potentially not winning it in at least a few years.

Like when Kobe had games of:

4 of 9
2 of 9
5 of 15
4 of 13

All against the Blazers in 00. Most star players that win titles don't have the luxury of having 4 games like that in a series and still beating a very good team. Most star players don't have guys dropping 41/11/7 in their supporting cast either like Shaq did in the Blazers series.

And I could go on and on. Using rings to prove Kobes's greatness is silly. He's great in his own right based on his level of play. But acting like most star players could shoot 44.8% from the field for their careers in the playoffs and have the success Kobe has had is absurd. And its even worse for Kobe given the fact that he's always had elite offensive teams around him more than capable 2nd options to alleviate pressure.

Which is why Kobe is who he is. A truly great player that deserves to be mentioned with some of the greatest players ever. A player that plays his own style virtually no matter what. He's either hitting or he's not. Like these last few games....Kobe has been beyond good. What has changed? Nothing. He's taking the same fadeaway jumpshots going 1 on 1...he's just making them lately.

It wouldn't matter if Kobe had prime stockton and prime shaq on his team. He'd still shoot roughly 44 to 46 percent from the field. That is who he is. Has it helped get 5 rings? You bet....but don't overlook the obvious. That he's had the luxury of supremely talented teams and great coaching as well. You don't play alone. Kobe could quite easily have no rings or only 1 ring if he had to play his career on the teams a guy like Iverson did.


huh?...you and your brothers forgot in 2000 WCFinals (again the real Championship) 25Pts 7reb 7ast.....18Pts 4reb 7ast 2stl 3blks.....33pts 6Ast 4stl 3Blks...and in Game 7 (the game that started the dynasty) 25Pts 11reb 7ast leading LA back from 15 points...if it wasn't for Kobe once again carrying LA in the crunch...then Snaq would be outta the playoff's again (like he lost with Lebron , penny , Nash)

many NBA superstars play with great teamates...hardly any win at the level Kobe has...


just look at Lebron ...had a great team nearly his whole career.....Durant has had a great team nearly his whole career...wade has had great teams his whole career...Duncan....

many stars play on great teams....everyone in the NBA can play basketball..great players will find a way to win..

deal wit it kids!!

[RazorBaLade]

You don't look at stats on a per game basis. You'd have to do a statistical analysis that would look something like this:

Games over 60%
Games over 55%
Games over 50%
Games under 50%
Games under 45%
Games under 40%
Games under 35%
Games under 30%

Etc.....

That is when efficiency becomes relevant. Using the averages to act like its just the same thing every game....that doesn't work. Because you are right. If Kobe shot 43% every single game....its just not that big of a deal compared to someone shooting 47% most of the time. Too many other things are far more important in a single game than 1 or 2 shots.

But when you look at the numbers above and do it properly...then it becomes more relevant.

The simple truth is that shooting 23 to 24 shots a game on 43% fg% is not good for a star player. When you combine the volume with the efficiency its just not the way you want a sg playing....especially given the offensive talent the Lakers have.

The problem with doing a curve like that is that its obvious a player who's less efficient will have more games that are less efficient. I mean of course someone that shoots 50% will not have as many games under 45% as will someone who averages 43% for example. Its just obvious and I don't see what it proves. The fact of the matter is that on any given day, the average is that if kobe and jordan or bron took 20 shots, kobe will make one shot less based on the career. On average! Is that not right? I just don't think the one shot (which sometimes can be 5 or 10 more missed shots, or 8 more made shots, its an average) is that big of a deal. Especially considering that difference might be just kobe choosing to shoot a retarded shot with 2 sec left some plays.

I'm not saying that kobe isn't less efficient.. I'm just saying I don't know why efficiency matters that much. If its over 40% its good, especially if 3s are factored in. I get that 50% is great tho and that needs to acknowledged.

[Vertical-24]

Kobe is not a top 5 player in the league anymore, maybe not even top 10. Nobody in the top 5 has a ring which goes to show you that we are in a new basketball era.

LMAOO I used to respect your opinion but I now I think you're a joke. Not a top 10 player? Buffoonery. Not a top 5 player? Pretty ridiculous but at least debatable. Kobe Bryant is still a top 5 player in the league this year, particularly if he can keep with the wonderful shooting nights he has been having lately. Has he had one too many bad shooting nights this season? Yes, not even debatable. But when you want to talk about raw overall production, individual skill, and impact (even as leader) than I don't understand how you can discredit him.

Hasn't been the best Kobe season but its not the worst either. Shooting 43% is sub-par but with the amount of great stand-out games and overall performance in account, he's still easily a top 5 player to me. Easily.

Then again...that's just my opinion.

[Dresta]

If only Kobe saw a shrink years ago...If only he stopped shooting so much...

he would have 10 Rings by now...

Darn Kobe and his FG%...only 5 championships in 7 NBA Finals in the past 13 years as a starter....what a bum.
I don't give a sh*t how many championships Kobe has won, its completely irrelevant to how he has played this season. Which has been absolute garbage. Not garbage necessarily in terms of output, but in costing his team games through his selfish vanity.

Kobe will not win a title this season, and he is not a top-5 player this season; this is pretty obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by man-love.


Why is 43% bad? I mean sure the greatest player ever made about 1 and a half more shots per game than kobe... Seriously? One and a half more makes per game is the difference between a chucking inefficient player and the best basketball player of all time?

Its really not a big deal dude. Anything around 40% and over is good. If anyone takes 3's shooting that then its even better because 3s are extremely efficient. Is it goat level? No but only jordan is goat level.. He had it all. Lebron has the efficiency but he doesn't have the variety of moves or the mentality or the memorable moments... Kobe has the moves and the mentality and memorable moments but not the efficiency... it doesnt make him a POS to not be jordan, buddy.This argument makes no sense whatsoever, when you're averaging things out over a massive sample size small differences are significant.

[RazorBaLade]

I don't give a sh*t how many championships Kobe has won, its completely irrelevant to how he has played this season. Which has been absolute garbage. Not garbage necessarily in terms of output, but in costing his team games through his selfish vanity.

Kobe will not win a title this season, and he is not a top-5 player this season; this is pretty obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by man-love.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever, when you're averaging things out over a massive sample size small differences are significant.

Your argument makes no sense to me either x_x.. If I make 89/100 FTS but you make 90/100 FTs then over a massive sample size I'm going to look atrocious next to you.. But its really just one free throw every 100 shots. I dunno.

edit or in kobes case.... Its 9/20 instead of 10/20. I just dont see the big deal. Even if you got down to 8 out of 20. I still dont think its that bad. Yes over thousands of shots the difference is noticable but its just 1 a game... It IS a difference, just not that big imo.

[tpols]

I don't give a sh*t how many championships Kobe has won, its completely irrelevant to how he has played this season. Which has been absolute garbage. Not garbage necessarily in terms of output, but in costing his team games through his selfish vanity.

Kobe will not win a title this season, and he is not a top-5 player this season; this is pretty obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by man-love.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever, when you're averaging things out over a massive sample size small differences are significant.
Whose for sure been a better player than Kobe this year?

Lebron for sure..
Durant for sure..
Chris Paul arguably..

Has Dwight with his inconsistent game and teetering back and forth between even committing to his own team better? Injured Rose? Injured Wade? Melo :oldlol: ? Dirk :oldlol: ?

Even if you take Dwight, Durant, Lebron, and CP3 Kobe's still top 5. He is ranked above Wade this year by a lot of people and is in a lot of rational posters' top 5s.. you're an idiot for saying he doesnt have a case for it.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade easily had the 2nd best season overall last year and thats not debateable. His numbers shytted on Rose's and as always, he was th only person who could compete with Bron numbers wise. Damn, the fukk is wrong wit you nyggas, Wade dominated last year and is having a great year this year. Fukk outta here with the bullshyt.


How the fukk is Rose having a better season this year????? His numbers are worse, he has played wayyyy less games, and when he was healthy he was not dominant. Fukk outta here, if Rose is top 5 this year Wade is top 3. There is no way possible anyone with common sense could put Rose over Wade this season or last. Damn yall dudes are dumb as fukk.

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say was Rose was better? I've always thought Wade was better than Rose.

I have Lebron, Durant and Dwight as the top 3 in that order, probably Wade after, and he could improve that ranking depending on how he plays in the playoffs.

Last year, I had Lebron, Dwight and probably Dirk in that order. Wade was clearly at least top 4, and you could argue him higher, he probably was a better overall player than Dirk, but Dirk was the best player in the entire playoffs so I wouldn't want to leave him out of the top 3.

And Wade didn't "easily" have his 2nd best season last year. I think most would agree that Wade's game and skill set were more complete and productive in 2009 than any other season, that's clearly his best, but after that, you could argue several more seasons as his 2nd best.

2006 is up there, he was starting to show a nice mid-range game that year, especially in the playoffs, and it was probably better than his mid-range game last season, and he was also more explosive. We can't ignore what he did in the ECF vs Detroit and the finals vs Dallas either.

But he was also playing just as well in '07 before his injury, if not better, and his 2010 season was right on par with his '11 season as well.

I don't think he has a season that's clearly his second best, but I'd lean towards '06.

[detroitdogg]

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say was Rose was better? I've always thought Wade was better than Rose.

I have Lebron, Durant and Dwight as the top 3 in that order, probably Wade after, and he could improve that ranking depending on how he plays in the playoffs.

Last year, I had Lebron, Dwight and probably Dirk in that order. Wade was clearly at least top 4, and you could argue him higher, he probably was a better overall player than Dirk, but Dirk was the best player in the entire playoffs so I wouldn't want to leave him out of the top 3.

And Wade didn't "easily" have his 2nd best season last year. I think most would agree that Wade's game and skill set were more complete and productive in 2009 than any other season, that's clearly his best, but after that, you could argue several more seasons as his 2nd best.

2006 is up there, he was starting to show a nice mid-range game that year, especially in the playoffs, and it was probably better than his mid-range game last season, and he was also more explosive. We can't ignore what he did in the ECF vs Detroit and the finals vs Dallas either.

But he was also playing just as well in '07 before his injury, if not better, and his 2010 season was right on par with his '11 season as well.

I don't think he has a season that's clearly his second best, but I'd lean towards '06.I agree with your post lol, I dont know where we got confused at. I was saying Wade has the 2nd best season in the league last year, not for his career, his numbers were much better than Rose, Rose was just more important to his team without that big 2nd option. Wade had a GREAT season last year but many try to downplay it, across the board he was right behind Bron in every stat and led him in a few. Nobody else in the league was close to Wade and Brons production. Agree with everything else though bro.

And hell naw last year was not Wades 2nd best season lol.

[LakersReign]

The only people who want to haggle over efficiency in regards to Kobe are either fake Heat fans aka Lebronytes who just hate Kobe just to hate him, no rhyme or reason to it. Or so called Jordan fans, who are Lebronytes in disguise since 99% never watched Jordan play. But hate Kobe so much, they're pretending to rep Jordan, when it's all about Lebron. Their obsession with advanced stats is a dead giveaway. REAL Jordan fans actually watched the man play and can hold a basketball conversation WITHOUT running to pull up stats like a Lebronyte. They may not like Kobe either, but at least they know enough about basketball to give the man some credit for his accomplishments.

[The Redemption]

The only people who want to haggle over efficiency in regards to Kobe are either fake Heat fans aka Lebronytes who just hate Kobe just to hate him, no rhyme or reason to it. Or so called Jordan fans, who are Lebronytes in disguise since 99% never watched Jordan play. But hate Kobe so much, they're pretending to rep Jordan, when it's all about Lebron. Their obsession with advanced stats is a dead giveaway. REAL Jordan fans actually watched the man play and can hold a basketball conversation WITHOUT running to pull up stats like a Lebronyte. They may not like Kobe either, but at least they know enough about basketball to give the man some credit for his accomplishments.

Kobe sucks, move on. Clearly an old man who doesn't know when his time is done. Most inefficient year of his career putting up Iverson type efficiency yet leads league in shot attempts per game and overall by a huge margin. :no:

[LakersReign]

I REST MY CASE!!!!:applause:

[The Redemption]

I REST MY CASE!!!!:applause:

I rested my balls on your momma's gooch too. While they slapped over and over again.

[LakersReign]

Trying way too hard. Try harder:sleeping

[The Redemption]

Trying way too hard. Try harder:sleeping

I don't gotta try to make you my bitch. You were a slave of the Celtics the minute you decided to jump on the Lakers bandwagon you weiny.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I agree with your post lol, I dont know where we got confused at. I was saying Wade has the 2nd best season in the league last year, not for his career, his numbers were much better than Rose, Rose was just more important to his team without that big 2nd option. Wade had a GREAT season last year but many try to downplay it, across the board he was right behind Bron in every stat and led him in a few. Nobody else in the league was close to Wade and Brons production. Agree with everything else though bro.

And hell naw last year was not Wades 2nd best season lol.

You could definitely argue Wade as top 2 last season as I said. After letting the finals sink in so I don't overreact to them, I'd still say Lebron was the best player in 2011, not the easiest thing to do after those finals, but I still have to say he's a more complete player who makes a bigger impact than anyone else.

2-4 could be argued in any order. I got Dwight 2nd for 2011 due to his big improvements offensively, his moves just looked a lot better and his scoring was more consistent with more big games. 23/14 on 59% shooting with 2.4 bpg and 1.4 spg was also the second best as far as production, imo, particularly when you consider his defense was better than anyone else and he made Orlando a top 3 defensive team.

Wade is a more complete player than Dirk, but I'd hate to leave Dirk out of the top 3 after he was the most impressive player to me in the finals and beat a team with both Lebron and Wade. That's why I give Wade top 3-4 for now.

I think 2011 was a weird enough year that you could argue the top 4 in any order.

[Inactive]

Your argument makes no sense to me either x_x.. If I make 89/100 FTS but you make 90/100 FTs then over a massive sample size I'm going to look atrocious next to you.. But its really just one free throw every 100 shots. I dunno.

edit or in kobes case.... Its 9/20 instead of 10/20. I just dont see the big deal. Even if you got down to 8 out of 20. I still dont think its that bad. Yes over thousands of shots the difference is noticable but its just 1 a game... It IS a difference, just not that big imo.The Lakers average scoring margin is 2.45 points. 5 of their losses were by less than 4 points.

If Kobe's EFG% was .558, and his attempts were the same, he'd score an extra 4.4 points per game. He'd be putting up a Jordanesque 32.5 ppg, on 50+%. Assuming everything else was equal, the Lakers would have a +6.85 scoring margin, which would put them at 3rd in the league. They'd be scoring 100.89 ppg, which is 3rd in the league (they're currently 17th). If you just added that free 4.4 points to each game, they would have a record 40-15, putting them right up there with the top contenders. When you factor in that some of their loss margins are probably inflated, due to late game free throws, you could probably argue that they might have another 2-3 wins, which would put them at the top of the league.

Obviously, in real life, when your averages improve, you can't just add the extra numbers to each game. Maybe they'd win the same games, just by a bigger margin, and be in the same spot. Maybe opposing defenses would be so scared of Kobe, that they allowed his teammates to score more, and the team would improve more than we could have anticipated. It's impossible to say for sure, but either way, it would have a significant impact on the team, and the way it's perceived. Those couple shots per game might not seem like a big deal to you, but they do have a huge impact, over the course of the season.

[DMAVS41]

Whose for sure been a better player than Kobe this year?

Lebron for sure..
Durant for sure..
Chris Paul arguably..

Has Dwight with his inconsistent game and teetering back and forth between even committing to his own team better? Injured Rose? Injured Wade? Melo :oldlol: ? Dirk :oldlol: ?

Even if you take Dwight, Durant, Lebron, and CP3 Kobe's still top 5. He is ranked above Wade this year by a lot of people and is in a lot of rational posters' top 5s.. you're an idiot for saying he doesnt have a case for it.

I wouldn't laugh off Dirk so much this year. He's been playing great ball the last 2 plus months....while Kobe has been playing inconsistent these last two months.

I rank Kobe higher on this year more on the fact that he hasn't missed a game and he's playing more minutes. But if you are laughing off a guy because Kobe scores 7 more points on 7 more shots a game....you need to think again.

You could make an argument for top 5 for Kobe...or not

durant and lebron have obviously been for sure better. i'd say its pretty clear that Howard is a better player than Kobe at this point as well.

then you could easily make arguments for paul, westbrook, love, and wade over Kobe as well.

so he's hardly a lock for top 5 this year

[DMAVS41]

huh?...you and your brothers forgot in 2000 WCFinals (again the real Championship) 25Pts 7reb 7ast.....18Pts 4reb 7ast 2stl 3blks.....33pts 6Ast 4stl 3Blks...and in Game 7 (the game that started the dynasty) 25Pts 11reb 7ast leading LA back from 15 points...if it wasn't for Kobe once again carrying LA in the crunch...then Snaq would be outta the playoff's again (like he lost with Lebron , penny , Nash)

many NBA superstars play with great teamates...hardly any win at the level Kobe has...


just look at Lebron ...had a great team nearly his whole career.....Durant has had a great team nearly his whole career...wade has had great teams his whole career...Duncan....

many stars play on great teams....everyone in the NBA can play basketball..great players will find a way to win..

deal wit it kids!!

Uhhhhhhhh. No.

Durant has not had a great team his whole career. That started last year and this year. Going forward he might....but you can't make that claim yet.

Duncan has had quality teams no doubt...but slightly less to considerably less talented teams than Kobe at times. His margin of error has been smaller.

Your examples above illustrate my point. A lot of star players would never have gotten the chance to play a game 7 in some of those series if they played like Kobe. Kobe's margin of error has been far greater than the average star. Which is why using "rings" as the main evidence of Kobe's greatness will always be flawed. Doesn't mean to ignore them. Doesn't mean they aren't incredibly impressive. Just means its a somewhat flawed argument when if you put other elite all time great players in similar circumstances they'd pile up the rings as well.

Dirk and Shaq for 8 years? LOL...title after title. Wade and Shaq for 8 years? Same thing.

Accomplishments should always matter...but greatness should be more about how a player actually plays the game of basketball and what he's able to accomplish on the court in terms of impact.

You can't disregard how a player actually plays and look at something a player often can't control as evidence to his greatness.

[DMAVS41]

To jump in on the debate for last year.

Dirk should be known as the best player.

He led an average supporting cast during the regular season to 57 wins. Only 1 less than a far superior Miami team did.

Then in the playoffs he was clearly the best player. He didn't have a terrible series like Wade did in the ECF....and he obviously didn't fall apart like Lebron did in the finals.

You simply can't be known as the best player in the game if you aren't capable of being the best player on a team that wins it all. Last year there simply wasn't a realistic team that Lebron could have led to the title. His play in the finals absolutely removes him from "best player in the game" conversation. Its an insult to the rest of the league that a guy like Lebron could still be known as the best player after the finals.

Again. Lebron led his team to 1 more win in the regular season than Dirk despite having for more help. Then Dirk played much better in the playoffs overall and beat Lebron head to head in the finals after massively outplaying him.

Dirk was the best player last year. The rest is lebron/howard/wade in some order.

[AlphaWolf24]

Uhhhhhhhh. No.

Durant has not had a great team his whole career. That started last year and this year. Going forward he might....but you can't make that claim yet.

Duncan has had quality teams no doubt...but slightly less to considerably less talented teams than Kobe at times. His margin of error has been smaller.

Your examples above illustrate my point. A lot of star players would never have gotten the chance to play a game 7 in some of those series if they played like Kobe. Kobe's margin of error has been far greater than the average star. Which is why using "rings" as the main evidence of Kobe's greatness will always be flawed. Doesn't mean to ignore them. Doesn't mean they aren't incredibly impressive. Just means its a somewhat flawed argument when if you put other elite all time great players in similar circumstances they'd pile up the rings as well.

Dirk and Shaq for 8 years? LOL...title after title. Wade and Shaq for 8 years? Same thing.

Accomplishments should always matter...but greatness should be more about how a player actually plays the game of basketball and what he's able to accomplish on the court in terms of impact.

You can't disregard how a player actually plays and look at something a player often can't control as evidence to his greatness.


WTF? is "margin of error??"...

Kobe has not had more talent??....in fact he has had less talent....his 3rd option was 33 year old Glenn Rice and DFish.

Many other superstars had much more overall talented teams and never won Jack.

Lebron has played on multiple 65 win teams with great talent across the board...and was in the NBA Finals in his 4th season...he played on the most stacked team in History and still lost.

you act like No one in the NBA can play basketball, the margin for error is minimal everywhere...the talent difference you claim is wide is very marginal....all players in the NBA can play..

Dirk had ...Prime Nash, Finley and Jamison ...


your make believe flawed basketball math in order to slight Kobe is silly...


next

[kileer7]

:roll::roll:Send in the clowns.

[DMAVS41]

WTF? is "margin of error??"...

Kobe has not had more talent??....in fact he has had less talent....his 3rd option was 33 year old Glenn Rice and DFish.

Many other superstars had much more overall talented teams and never won Jack.

Lebron has played on multiple 65 win teams with great talent across the board...and was in the NBA Finals in his 4th season...he played on the most stacked team in History and still lost.

you act like No one in the NBA can play basketball, the margin for error is minimal everywhere...the talent difference you claim is wide is very marginal....all players in the NBA can play..

Dirk had ...Prime Nash, Finley and Jamison ...


your make believe flawed basketball math in order to slight Kobe is silly...


next

You simply don't know enough about the game to have a conversation.

Dirk did not have prime Nash. In fact, the Nash Dirk had was easily worse than the Suns version. The Nash on the Mavs had 1 great year....2003. And of course the Mavs made the WCF that year and had a great shot winning that series until Dirk went down. Prime Finley? Yea....for a few years. 01 to 03...by 04 Finley had started really wearing down and was no longer in his prime. And did you really just list Jamison? ROFL.....

The fact that you think somebody like Lebron or Dirk or Wade have played with similar help to Kobe throughout their careers shows just how biased you really are.

Its of course expected though....

5 rings....:wtf:

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe top 5? Hahahaha

[kileer7]

Kobe top 5? Hahahaha
That's the first thought that came to my mind.

(P.S. Alphawolf24 I responded to your post on the Kobe shooting 43% thread :oldlol:)

[AlphaWolf24]

You simply don't know enough about the game to have a conversation.

Dirk did not have prime Nash. In fact, the Nash Dirk had was easily worse than the Suns version. The Nash on the Mavs had 1 great year....2003. And of course the Mavs made the WCF that year and had a great shot winning that series until Dirk went down. Prime Finley? Yea....for a few years. 01 to 03...by 04 Finley had started really wearing down and was no longer in his prime. And did you really just list Jamison? ROFL.....

The fact that you think somebody like Lebron or Dirk or Wade have played with similar help to Kobe throughout their careers shows just how biased you really are.

Its of course expected though....

5 rings....:wtf:


What converstaion is there?....all you conversate about is how Kobe was just Lucky to have special teammates no one else get's...:lol

Just more BS trying to slight Kobe....

Kobe has won with less talented teams (acroos the board) then most superstars...Look who Magic had....Look who Bird had....look at Jordan especially in the mid 90's with 3 other HOF's....Durant is starting his career on a championship caliber team....Dirk has had HOF teamates and Nash and Finley were great players (no matter how much you try to spin it)

Kobe has helped forge Gasol/Bynum/Odom to become Great....it was a team effort...but it has always started with Kobe's hard work and will to win...

many superstars play with great teammates .....some win at a high level...some do not.

[Fuhrer Hubbs]

Wade played with Shaq, Morning, and Payton. Of course he won one with all those hall of famers.

Here are their ages at the time
Shaq: 34
Mourning: 36
Payton: 37

And now their averages in the Finals,
Shaq: 14-10-3
Mourning: 4-3-0
Payton: 2-2-2

Shaq was still pretty good, and I'd even say he was the teams best player in the regular season that year, but make no mistake Miami had no business winning that title and it was because of DWYANE WADE that they won. After that Finals series noone can say he won just because of his cast.

[Leviathon1121]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJD14KhYF-0

7-9 seconds, Kobe imposes his will to win with incredible defense.

9-11 seconds, Bryant further imposes his will to win by walking to his bench while the play is still happening.

14-18 seconds, Westbrook and the Thunder celebrate Bryant imposing his will to win.

Or perhaps this was Bryant's aesthetically pleasing way of playing as you put it?

Either way, the Thunder were definitely pleased with Kobe's aesthetic pleasantness.

:roll:

[D-Wade316]

That's taking it too far. I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'd say Durant has surpassed Wade at this point. Even last year Durant was pretty awesome in the playoffs and he's gotten substantially better.
Nothing's taking too far or crazy for a player who is a GOAT candidate in the Finals. Fukk. He had a stinker against the Bulls. And completely dominated the Mavs.

[Jolokia]

The Lakers average scoring margin is 2.45 points. 5 of their losses were by less than 4 points.

If Kobe's EFG% was .558, and his attempts were the same, he'd score an extra 4.4 points per game. He'd be putting up a Jordanesque 32.5 ppg, on 50+%. Assuming everything else was equal, the Lakers would have a +6.85 scoring margin, which would put them at 3rd in the league. They'd be scoring 100.89 ppg, which is 3rd in the league (they're currently 17th). If you just added that free 4.4 points to each game, they would have a record 40-15, putting them right up there with the top contenders. When you factor in that some of their loss margins are probably inflated, due to late game free throws, you could probably argue that they might have another 2-3 wins, which would put them at the top of the league.

Obviously, in real life, when your averages improve, you can't just add the extra numbers to each game. Maybe they'd win the same games, just by a bigger margin, and be in the same spot. Maybe opposing defenses would be so scared of Kobe, that they allowed his teammates to score more, and the team would improve more than we could have anticipated. It's impossible to say for sure, but either way, it would have a significant impact on the team, and the way it's perceived. Those couple shots per game might not seem like a big deal to you, but they do have a huge impact, over the course of the season.
Wow...I well thought-out post. Props bro :applause: