How would you feel if Dallas missed the playoffs this year?

[Droid101]

Happy? Sad? Indifferent?

Dallas' remaining schedule:

Tue home Sacto.
Thu away GS.
Fri away Portland.
Sun away Lakers.
Monday away Jazz (this ends a four game road trip, four games in five days)
Wed home Rockets.
Friday home GS.
Sat away Bulls.
Four day rest
Thu away Hawks.



I'd personally laugh my ass off at the worst title defense in history. Yes, worse than the 99 Bulls who lost their top three players. This team is mostly intact (at least, three of the top four playoff performers).

[RaininTwos]

it would devastate dirks legacy in my eyes

i would probably laugh for a good bit though

[creepingdeath]

Happy? Sad? Indifferent?

Dallas' remaining schedule:

Tue home Sacto.
Thu away GS.
Fri away Portland.
Sun away Lakers.
Monday away Jazz (this ends a four game road trip, four games in five days)
Wed home Rockets.
Friday home GS.
Sat away Bulls.
Four day rest
Thu away Hawks.



I'd personally laugh my ass off at the worst title defense in history. Yes, worse than the 99 Bulls who lost their top three players. This team is mostly intact (at least, three of the top four playoff performers).
:roll:

:coleman:

[Droid101]

:roll:

:coleman:
So you're saying they lost more than one of Dirk, Terry, Marion, and Chandler?

[JellyBean]

Indifferent. They do not play, nor act, like a defending champion.

[Bigsmoke]

they were looking into the future anyway.

you rather try to repeat with a 39 year old PG or try to rebuild a little bit and maybe get Deron Williams? :confusedshrug:

[Phiology]

would feel sad.

not that i feel that dallas would make it out of round one anyways (maybe round 2 tops if they get a beatable team (for them) or dirk goes absolutely bananas again), but still i like the team and dirk very much. would feel strange to go to the playoffs without the defending champs.

however, i feel that they will make the 8th or 7th seed if they remain healthy.

[SpecialQue]

I would love it, but it's mostly spite because they swept the Lakers.

[DMV2]

Similar to the 2006 to 2007 Mavs

2007 Mavs, the first #1 team to lost in the 1st Round in a 7-game series.
2012 Mavs, the first defending champions to miss the playoff (if we exclude the 1999 Bulls) ....that's if they miss the playoffs

I'd be happy if it open up a spot for the Jazz in the playoffs. The Suns would probably take it though.

[smush=mvp!]

I have to admit I find Houston, Denver, Phoenix and even Utah more entertaining than Dallas. It was definitely fun to watch Dirk's unbelievable run last year and win it all, but somehow I don't feel he can top that.

[guy]

I just realized yesterday how close they are to missing the playoffs. With that said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if cutting ties with Odom results in them improving dramatically and gaining a bunch of momentum and winning at least a few rounds in the playoffs. I wouldn't write them off at all.

[SCdac]

I'd feel that they (Cuban) shouldn't have dismantled the team for the sake of possibly getting a big name free agent, while Dirk turns 34 later this year and isn't exactly going to get healthier as time goes on. They should have seized the moment, bit the bullet, and resigned some of their key players (imo). I think missing the playoffs would say less about Dirk/Terry, and more about how much Chandler meant to the team, Butler in the RS, and how chemistry is important to a winning team. Doesn't seem like that chemistry is there as much. Chandler essentially lead that team in Rebounds/Blocks/FG% in the regular season and post season.

[Kurosawa0]

I'm sure Deron Williams will be a nice consolation prize.

[swi7ch]

Indifferent.

30 years from now, no one will remember DAL missing the playoffs. All everyone will remember is that Dirk won a title and is now in the HOF. That's it.

[RaininTwos]

lol @ people giving dirk a pass. i cant even remember the last time dirk missed the playoffs, but somehow losing chandler and butler is enough for him to excused.

[SpecialQue]

Indifferent.

30 years from now, no one will remember DAL missing the playoffs. All everyone will remember is that Dirk won a title and is now in the HOF. That's it.

True. No one remembers how bad the Celtics were that season after Russell retired, or the Bulls after 98.

[guy]

lol @ people giving dirk a pass. i cant even remember the last time dirk missed the playoffs, but somehow losing chandler and butler is enough for him to excused.

He's not regarded that high thats why no one would really care that much.

[Whoah10115]

Before the Wolves started to crash, I thought it could seriously happen. I didn't so much predict it; I was more hoping. But I think it's unlikely. At the same time, I think it's cool they get to the playoffs and try to defend their title.



However, do not be shocked to see it happen next year. I don't think they'll get Deron and I don't think their plan is detailed enough. Cuban is a great owner, as he cares and is willing to do anything. But I don't think his, basketball decisions are as great as others do. He does a good job, but I think he's gonna get this one a little wrong.



Deron might go back to Dallas. The Nets have pretty much thrown away their draft pick and any shot at Davis. But they still have good players all around. Maybe Avery gets the boot. I'm not diggin whatever he's trying to do. They have a good rotation. If they can net one guy (watch for amnesties) then they'll be very good. Either way, they're in the playoffs next year. And I think Deron decides to stay.

[Mr Know It All]

Asterisk season.




It wouldn't hurt Dirk's legacy. He's returned to elite form following a bad start, his teammates have just been god awful.

Haywood, Kidd, West, and Marion have all missed multiple games. Marion and West are the Mavericks best two wing defenders, and Haywood is their best interior defender. Dallas's offense has sputtered all season and they lack weapons (Terry has been inconsistent as usual) so the loss in defense has caused them to really suffer at times.

They won't miss the playoffs. On top of that, if they are healthy, I can see them winning a round or two as long as they avoid the Lakers (size and revenge factor too much to overcome IMO).

[creepingdeath]

So you're saying they lost more than one of Dirk, Terry, Marion, and Chandler?
You could turn the argument around and say that the Mavs lost three of their finals starters (Chandler, Stevenson, Barea). Hell, this team isn't intact at all, they've lost some crucial pieces and are ridden with injuries.

[Droid101]

You could turn the argument around and say that the Mavs lost three of their finals starters (Chandler, Stevenson, Barea). Hell, this team isn't intact at all, they've lost some crucial pieces and are ridden with injuries.
Keep on rationalizing it!

[DMV2]

I was totally wrong about Chandler's impact. He got the Knicks playing defense this season.

But still hard to believe that Stevenson is better than Carter or Barea is better than Delonte. If Odom came to play, they wouldn't be so bad.

[alenleomessi]

They wont miss the playoffs get real.
In fact it wouldnt surprise me if they knock out the Spurs or Lakers in the first round.
Dirk would probably get like 20ft attempts a game

[R.I.P.]

Wouldn

[R.I.P.]

I was totally wrong about Chandler's impact. He got the Knicks playing defense this season.

But still hard to believe that Stevenson is better than Carter or Barea is better than Delonte. If Odom came to play, they wouldn't be so bad.

Barea is a better PG and slasher than West. Stevenson is a better defender than Carter and actually does less stupid shit on court, because he has the ball less than Carter.

[bmulls]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Wouldn

[kentatm]

I would feel like Lamar Odom sunk the team with his pathetic attitude.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

You could turn the argument around and say that the Mavs lost three of their finals starters (Chandler, Stevenson, Barea). Hell, this team isn't intact at all, they've lost some crucial pieces and are ridden with injuries.
:oldlol:

[jbryan1984]

It would be horrible for them to miss it the year after they won. Dallas has been 1 of the top 10 teams since like Dirk's second or third season. This team has just never been able to get it going this year but they are also in one of the toughest, if not THE toughest division in the NBA. I wouldn't sleep on them even if they are 7th or 8th seed.

[DMAVS41]

Keep on rationalizing it!

Rationalizing what? This team isn't good at all. Do people not comprehend how bad the Mavericks have been this year?

Dirk and Marion are the only two players shooting over 44% from the field this year that score at all. Odom was a complete failure. And the team just never clicked. No training camp and no chemistry...and a team riddled with injuries all year.

Honestly...if you had watched this team all year...you'd be shocked that they are somehow 5 game over .500 at this point. Sadly, with this group, that is an accomplishment.

Considering Dirk has been putting up something around 23/7/3 on 46/36/90 since January....its hard to fault him. Dirk is essentially playing the way he has most of his career these last two months. Its done nothing to help because the rest of the team has been so dreadful. Dirk can no longer carry a team night in night out all by himself....especially in a shortened season like this. I'm actually amazed he's been this good considering how horrendous his offensive help has been.

If Dallas misses the playoffs...it would suck as a fan, but in terms of the future of the team and such. I could care less. This entire team is going to be blown up in the off season like the plan was all along. Making the playoffs doesn't impact that. And there is absolutely no possible way this team can win the title....so I could care less.

[creepingdeath]

:oldlol:
Well, Kobe didn't do sh*t against Stevenson, so... :confusedshrug: And people always try to exaggerate the influence of Barea on the Mavs postseason run. At least be consistent with your arguments.


Keep on rationalizing it!
No need to rationalize anything. Better than your lame-ass excuses after the sweep.

[bigt]

lol @ people giving dirk a pass. i cant even remember the last time dirk missed the playoffs, but somehow losing chandler and butler is enough for him to excused.

I think you answered your own question there. I think the fact that under his watch the Mavs have made the playoffs for so many years is why he's getting a pass. He's carried the load for quite a while, and has proven that under his watch they can win it all.

Not saying he should be getting that pass (although I'm not blaming him completely for their lackluster season) but when you have done what a Dirk or Duncan or Kobe has done, you tend to get the passes (Kobe being the exception somewhat because you either love him or loathe him)

[lakerfreak]

I'd personally laugh my ass off at the worst title defense in history. Yes, worse than the 99 Bulls who lost their top three players. This team is mostly intact (at least, three of the top four playoff performers).

Doesn't make the least bit of difference to them. All of those guys have been in the league for years, none of them winning a championship until last season. The fact all those veterans put aside whatever they used to be, and molded their efforts together into one big functional organization made the championship last season all the more amazing. It was a great story. Dirk, Kidd, Terry, Marion, Chandler....all those guys will always have that one amazing season to remember for the rest of their lives.

[Balla_Status]

They weren't given a fair chance in defending their title with the new CBA and shortened season.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Well, Kobe didn't do sh*t against Stevenson, so... :confusedshrug: And people always try to exaggerate the influence of Barea on the Mavs postseason run. At least be consistent with your arguments.


No need to rationalize anything. Better than your lame-ass excuses after the sweep.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

owned

[LA_Showtime]

I would love it. I hate the Mavericks. Their fans are crazy.

[Jasper]

SAD they played ex-Laker Odom ho hum ball.

THIS equals Carter ball.



Which would equal Cuban money ball.


Which equals my 2011 Dirk one ring prediction.

[SevereUpInHere]

I"d be pretty sad, Mavs are my 2nd favourite team and DIrk is my favourite player, I admit I didn't think Chandler would make such a big difference to Mavs and also to our defence.

[MavAlbert]

I"d be pretty sad, Mavs are my 2nd favourite team and DIrk is my favourite player, I admit I didn't think Chandler would make such a big difference to Mavs and also to our defence.



mavs defense was better than last year before all of the injuries... losing a key player (sometimes 2-3) every other week is tough enough in a normal season, let alone this condensed one.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I'd throw a :party:

And then

:roll:

F U Dallas

[DMAVS41]

I"d be pretty sad, Mavs are my 2nd favourite team and DIrk is my favourite player, I admit I didn't think Chandler would make such a big difference to Mavs and also to our defence.

The defense has been slightly worse if at all really. In fact, a full healthy Mavs squad this year has played elite defense.

Its been the offense that has been terrible. Chandler did set a ton of great screens and was a great offensive rebounder, so we definitely miss him...but its not all him or anything.

The truth is that it was a combination of a ton of things....

no training camp
players a year older
shortened schedule/season
new players that lack time on court together
injuries

And finally of course. Odom sucking beyond belief. This Mavs team would be looking at the 3 seed right now if Odom played well or we had signed somebody else. We were 1 quality player away from being at least 5 to 7 wins better this year. We lost a lot of close games that we simply never would have if we had gotten what we thought we were getting when we signed Odom.

You never want to blame just 1 guy, but this is probably as close as you can to getting there. If we had a guy like Kaman (probably who we sign if not for Odom)...I would estimate our record at around 38-20 to date instead of 32-26.

Not only was Odom terrible off the court, but he was a huge distraction all season. Players and coaches constantly having to field questions about him. He showed up horribly out of shape, took a ton of time off, and was often late to team functions/games/practices. He was just in no place at all to be a NBA player this year.

Its the Mavs fault for giving him so many chances. We should have moved him or shut him down a month ago at the latest.

Like I said before, it would suck as a fan to miss the playoffs...but in terms of the future of the team or the players. Not a big deal at all. This team is going to be blown up no matter what. In fact, the worst thing that could happen would be the Mavs somehow making it to round 2 or the WCF and Cuban/Nellie thinking we should bring some of these guys back. We shouldn't.

[Shepseskaf]

I'd personally laugh my ass off at the worst title defense in history. Yes, worse than the 99 Bulls who lost their top three players. This team is mostly intact (at least, three of the top four playoff performers).
I'd personally feel that it was a fluke championship that Miami should have won, and would have, if LBJ didn't lose his mind for whatever reason.

[Balla_Status]

I'd personally feel that it was a fluke championship that Miami should have won, and would have, if LBJ didn't lose his mind for whatever reason.

Yeah, it's called Shawn Marion. Winning four 7 game series in a row is no fluke.

[Rake2204]

I would be sad. I am a Vince Carter lifer and much of my interest around Dallas revolves around that narrow bit of hope that perhaps VC can still squeeze out some semi-spectacular dunks (like his semi-solid one last night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f8XMDcBgWo). I also like Dirk, but I'm satisfied after watching his performance last year.

[miles berg]

Mixed bag for me. First round exit or shot in the lottery? It's too late now to rest Dirk for the season like I had hoped for, so better make the best of it.

Their legs aren't capable of another 25 game post season run.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldnt mind hearing from some of the people who said things like "When you beat Kobe/Gasol/Bynum, Durant/Westbrook, and Lebron/Wade...you are the best player in the league...period" of Dirk during this season(not talking just after the finals). But I dont think they will miss the playoffs or perform poorly when they get there.

[DMAVS41]

I wouldnt mind hearing from some of the people who said things like "When you beat Kobe/Gasol/Bynum, Durant/Westbrook, and Lebron/Wade...you are the best player in the league...period" of Dirk during this season(not talking just after the finals). But I dont think they will miss the playoffs or perform poorly when they get there.

I don't really follow your post, but I thought Dirk deserved to be known as the best player in the league last year. This year? Totally different story. I'm confused why people can't just go off of what happens.

Last year Dirk was a beast in the regular season and led his team to 57 wins....a team that went 2-7 without him. Then he was easily the best player in the playoffs and led his huge underdog team to the title. Not sure why it would be questioned to have Dirk as the best player last year.

This year Dirk started off pretty poorly with a 14 game stretch where he basically averaged 15 points and was hobbling around the floor. Then he got healthy and for the last 2.5 months he's been playing well. Putting up his usual numbers on slightly worse efficiency. Which is expected with the condensed schedule and the inept offensive supporting cast he has.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't really follow your post, but I thought Dirk deserved to be known as the best player in the league last year. This year? Totally different story. I'm confused why people can't just go off of what happens.


What happens in a week or two and who the best player is are not really the same thing. And there are people who have posted in this topic who were claiming that dirk was in fact...and without room for discussion...the best in the league...during this season....because the Mavs won and the manner they did it and who they beat. Them missing the playoffs would make for a situation id like to see explained by someone who thinks that way and felt he was the best...this season...because of it.



Last year Dirk was a beast in the regular season and led his team to 57 wins....a team that went 2-7 without him. Then he was easily the best player in the playoffs and led his huge underdog team to the title. Not sure why it would be questioned to have Dirk as the best player last year.

Because he...was not. Did he have one of the most absurd stretches of hot shooting ive ever seen for a series and a half? Indeed he did. But I dont know that one thing decides the other.



This year Dirk started off pretty poorly with a 14 game stretch where he basically averaged 15 points and was hobbling around the floor. Then he got healthy and for the last 2.5 months he's been playing well. Putting up his usual numbers on slightly worse efficiency. Which is expected with the condensed schedule and the inept offensive supporting cast he has.


I dont know that it would be expected. bad supporting casts(nto that he has one anyway) arent generally a cause for a numbers dip in a player on his level. Dirk may be aging but hes not the kinda guy who needs his teammates to take pressure off him. I felt in most games ive seen he just didnt attack enough and often when he would start it would be too late. Hes capable of more than hes doing. His numbers do not at the moment capture his ability. Even his numbers lately. Id take him 100 times out of 100 in current form over Love and his 30/13 or whatever its been the last month or two.

[RaininTwos]

I think you answered your own question there. I think the fact that under his watch the Mavs have made the playoffs for so many years is why he's getting a pass. He's carried the load for quite a while, and has proven that under his watch they can win it all.

Not saying he should be getting that pass (although I'm not blaming him completely for their lackluster season) but when you have done what a Dirk or Duncan or Kobe has done, you tend to get the passes (Kobe being the exception somewhat because you either love him or loathe him)
No one should get a pass for missing the postseason when they have a talented roster.

[boozehound]

it would devastate dirks legacy in my eyes

i would probably laugh for a good bit though
something similar. shoulda kept it together there cuban!

[DMAVS41]

What happens in a week or two and who the best player is are not really the same thing. And there are people who have posted in this topic who were claiming that dirk was in fact...and without room for discussion...the best in the league...during this season....because the Mavs won and the manner they did it and who they beat. Them missing the playoffs would make for a situation id like to see explained by someone who thinks that way and felt he was the best...this season...because of it.




Because he...was not. Did he have one of the most absurd stretches of hot shooting ive ever seen for a series and a half? Indeed he did. But I dont know that one thing decides the other.



I dont know that it would be expected. bad supporting casts(nto that he has one anyway) arent generally a cause for a numbers dip in a player on his level. Dirk may be aging but hes not the kinda guy who needs his teammates to take pressure off him. I felt in most games ive seen he just didnt attack enough and often when he would start it would be too late. Hes capable of more than hes doing. His numbers do not at the moment capture his ability. Even his numbers lately. Id take him 100 times out of 100 in current form over Love and his 30/13 or whatever its been the last month or two.

Wow. Uhhhhh....no.

Dirk was great from start to finish last year. Again. 57 wins...after losing Butler for the season. Missing 9 games in which the team goes 2-7. You are looking at likely 62 or 63 wins last year even with losing Butler. Putting up 23/7/3 on 52%fg and 61%TS...uhhh...those numbers and leading a team to that many wins should not be swept under the rug. Hell, Lebron and Wade only won 1 more game. Kobe won the same amount. LOL...who the hell was clearly better than Dirk last year even in the regular season? Nobody.....sigh.

Then Dirk steps up and outperforms every single other player in the league in the playoffs overall quite easily. Beating Kobe, Pau, Durant, Westbrook, LA, Lebron, and Wade head to head in the playoffs.

You can't boil down Dirk's season to a couple weeks. That is absurd.

Again. Just go off what players actually do. How on earth could Lebron be the best player last year when he was not capable of being the best player on a team that won the title. Its absurd.

Just like it would be absurd to call Dirk the best player this year. He's not playing like it. Although he's playing far better than you and others give him credit for. As usual.

I just find it laughable that someone saying Dirk was the best player last year is met with so much resistance. What more do you want a player to do? Win nearly 60 after losing a key player on an average team and missing 9 games yourself. Then torch everyone in the playoffs as a 20 to 1 underdog to win. How many teams at 20 to 1 underdogs have ever even won the title? Maybe 1 or 2 other teams in NBA history.....LOL

And in terms of Dirk this year. His numbers dipped because of his start in which he was clearly nowhere near 100%. Its not just random that since he got hurt...his numbers are back to normal and so is his level of play really. Its expected Dirk wouldn't be his normal self this year because his team got worse, he was injured, he's a year older, and he's the only consistent player on an old team playing a brutal schedule. Again. Since he got healthy...its been relatively the same 23/7/3 on 57% TS.

You try to boil Dirk's year last year to a hot 2 weeks....and then your turn around this year and talk about a dip in numbers that is only due to a similar 2 to 3 week stretch in which Dirk was clearly nowhere near 100% and not indicative at all of his normal play. Doesn't make sense either way.

[DMAVS41]

No one should get a pass for missing the postseason when they have a talented roster.

That is your problem right there. Its not a very good roster. Odom was terrible. West and Haywood have been banged up. Kidd is old and hobbled. Terry and Marion have been inconsistent as usual. Carter has been average at best.

Not a talented roster at all really. The Mavs are currently 6 games over .500. What should they be? Should they be 8 games? 10 games? 15 games? I mean....the margins are so slim in a season like this.

To put it in perspective, the Mavs are 4 games behind the Lakers, 2.5 games behind the clippers, and 2 games behind the Grizzlies. Its not like they are way behind or something. They are literally a few less injuries and some better luck away from having 5 or so more wins.

[Droid101]

Barea is a better PG and slasher than West. Stevenson is a better defender than Carter and actually does less stupid shit on court, because he has the ball less than Carter.
West is infinitely better on defense than Barea will ever be in his entire career, which I think makes up for the difference in Carter's D vs Stevenson. Carter's O is much better than Stevenson's, also. Also also, Marion picks up the elite wings on the opposing team. Stevenson isn't as good on defense as Marion.

Cry more. I love the taste of Texas sized tears.

[Balla_Status]

Cry more. I love the taste of Texas sized *****.

FIFY

[Kblaze8855]

Wow. Uhhhhh....no.

Dirk was great from start to finish last year. Again. 57 wins...after losing Butler for the season. Missing 9 games in which the team goes 2-7. You are looking at likely 62 or 63 wins last year even with losing Butler.

Then Dirk steps up and outperforms every single other player in the league in the playoffs overall quite easily. Beating Kobe, Pau, Durant, Westbrook, LA, Lebron, and Wade head to head in the playoffs.

You can't boil down Dirk's season to a couple weeks. That is absurd.


Before those couple weeks the question of is Dirk the best is met with laughs. After it...it isnt. Im not pretending that didnt happen.

Everything that Dirk did that will be remembered last year was in about 2 halves vs the Lakers, 3 games vs the Thunder, and a shot or two vs the Heat. It was hardly some season long rampage that just built momentum till he exploded in the playoffs. His season wasnt even noteworthy by the standards of players on his level.



Again. Just go off what players actually do. How on earth could Lebron be the best player last year when he was not capable of being the best player on a team that won the title. Its absurd.

The other guy id accept as the best last year didnt even make it out of the first round. You must know by now that I dont really care.



Just like it would be absurd to call Dirk the best player this year. He's not playing like it. Although he's playing far better than you and others give him credit for. As usual.

Me? What exactly have I said about Dirk this year? Im not 100% sure ive said anything other than...hes better than his numbers. Feel free to show me something that justifies your claim.


I just find it laughable that someone saying Dirk was the best player last year is met with so much resistance.

What you find laughable will be funny to less and less people as time goes on. The post playoff bump everyone gets wore off quicker with Dirk than it did with say...Wade after 06.




What more do you want a player to do? Win nearly 60 after losing a key player on an average team and missing 9 games yourself. Then torch everyone in the playoffs as a 20 to 1 underdog to win. How many teams at 20 to 1 underdogs have ever even won the title? Maybe 1 or 2 other teams in NBA history.....LOL



What more do I want a player to do?

I want the player I consider the best to be exceptional at more than shooting. Dirk is a good passer. Great for a bigman. But league wide...just good. Hes an acceptable rebounder who just decides to take weeks off at a time. Hes a better defender than he will ever be given credit for but hes not a player id rank anywhere with his defense being the deciding factor in a positive way.

Lebron, Dwight, and Wade were good to outstanding defenders. Its been at least 25 years since I could say I felt the best player in the league wasnt that. Maybe you could say Shaq but Shaq was one of the more effective defenders in the paint if only due to fear of him. Plus we dont need to go into the rest of his game to justify my feelings on him...

In all the MVP talk last year you ever hear me say "Rose won ___ games...hes the best player" or say anything to suggest I felt he was better than the players I just mentioned as top flight defenders?

No.

You could talk to me about Bird and Magic but nobody is gonna claim either of them were just scorers or that they were not among the best passers, best leaders, and most well rounded players ever so the exception wouldnt really apply to Dirk.

Since Shaq fell off the only players ive even considered for #1 were all a notch or 5 above Dirk as defensive players. Nothing he can do shooting the ball with Ibaka in his jersey will change that. Maybe briefly Mcgrady but not in a sit down and think about it kinda way...he wasnt better than Duncan in 03. Besides Tmacs defense ranged from disinterested to league wide elite which...I cant say for Dirk.

I love watching defense. I love defensive players. As ive said before perhaps its ocming up a Bulls fan around a lot of Hawk fans who hated on Jordan and later Pippen in favor of Nique but...for whatever reason. Defense comes to the front of my mind when asked who the best is. Dirk isnt changing that.

I know his game. I know all the players in question. I wouldnt even need to see the playoffs to know the kind of players they are. Ive never made a decision on who is best in 2-3 weeks that went against my feelings in the months and years before it. Im not that reactionary.

I form my opinions on players games and when they start to play a different way ill adjust it. But giving me win totals, the opponents oneach team, and the results just isnt information I can use in this. I could wake up out of a coma never having seen any of them and decide who is best that way.

Just not how I do it. You want to call a player better than another when hes worse at literally 90% of what the game asks of its players...thats on you. Value what you will. I dont look at it in the way you do. If there are exceptions there have not been in decades.


And I dont know what you are even talking about far as me getting on Dirk about a dip in his numbers. Thats pretty much exactly the opposite of what ive said. I know Dirk is better than his numbers....

[RaininTwos]

That is your problem right there. Its not a very good roster. Odom was terrible. West and Haywood have been banged up. Kidd is old and hobbled. Terry and Marion have been inconsistent as usual. Carter has been average at best.

Not a talented roster at all really. The Mavs are currently 6 games over .500. What should they be? Should they be 8 games? 10 games? 15 games? I mean....the margins are so slim in a season like this.

To put it in perspective, the Mavs are 4 games behind the Lakers, 2.5 games behind the clippers, and 2 games behind the Grizzlies. Its not like they are way behind or something. They are literally a few less injuries and some better luck away from having 5 or so more wins.

This is where you and I begin to have problems. These are excuses. Oh poor dirk, some of his teammates have been injured..... stop it son.

I like how you throw virtually every key play under the bus except for your boy Dirk. If he played up to the whole "best player in the league" the Mavs wouldn't be teetering on the brink of not making the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

Before those couple weeks the question of is Dirk the best is met with laughs. After it...it isnt. Im not pretending that didnt happen.

Everything that Dirk did that will be remembered last year was in about 2 halves vs the Lakers, 3 games vs the Thunder, and a shot or two vs the Heat. It was hardly some season long rampage that just built momentum till he exploded in the playoffs. His season wasnt even noteworthy by the standards of players on his level.




The other guy id accept as the best last year didnt even make it out of the first round. You must know by now that I dont really care.




Me? What exactly have I said about Dirk this year? Im not 100% sure ive said anything other than...hes better than his numbers. Feel free to show me something that justifies your claim.



What you find laughable will be funny to less and less people as time goes on. The post playoff bump everyone gets wore off quicker with Dirk than it did with say...Wade after 06.





What more do I want a player to do?

I want the player I consider the best to be exceptional at more than shooting. Dirk is a good passer. Great for a bigman. But league wide...just good. Hes an acceptable rebounder who just decides to take weeks off at a time. Hes a better defender than he will ever be given credit for but hes not a player id rank anywhere with his defense being the deciding factor in a positive way.

Lebron, Dwight, and Wade were good to outstanding defenders. Its been at least 25 years since I could say I felt the best player in the league wasnt that. Maybe you could say Shaq but Shaq was one of the more effective defenders in the paint if only due to fear of him. Plus we dont need to go into the rest of his game to justify my feelings on him...

In all the MVP talk last year you ever hear me say "Rose won ___ games...hes the best player" or say anything to suggest I felt he was better than the players I just mentioned as top flight defenders?

No.

You could talk to me about Bird and Magic but nobody is gonna claim either of them were just scorers or that they were not among the best passers, best leaders, and most well rounded players ever so the exception wouldnt really apply to Dirk.

Since Shaq fell off the only players ive even considered for #1 were all a notch or 5 above Dirk as defensive players. Nothing he can do shooting the ball with Ibaka in his jersey will change that. Maybe briefly Mcgrady but not in a sit down and think about it kinda way...he wasnt better than Duncan in 03. Besides Tmacs defense ranged from disinterested to league wide elite which...I cant say for Dirk.

I love watching defense. I love defensive players. As ive said before perhaps its ocming up a Bulls fan around a lot of Hawk fans who hated on Jordan and later Pippen in favor of Nique but...for whatever reason. Defense comes to the front of my mind when asked who the best is. Dirk isnt changing that.

I know his game. I know all the players in question. I wouldnt even need to see the playoffs to know the kind of players they are. Ive never made a decision on who is best in 2-3 weeks that went against my feelings in the months and years before it. Im not that reactionary.

I form my opinions on players games and when they start to play a different way ill adjust it. But giving me win totals, the opponents oneach team, and the results just isnt information I can use in this. I could wake up out of a coma never having seen any of them and decide who is best that way.

Just not how I do it. You want to call a player better than another when hes worse at literally 90% of what the game asks of its players...thats on you. Value what you will. I dont look at it in the way you do. If there are exceptions there have not been in decades.


And I dont know what you are even talking about far as me getting on Dirk about a dip in his numbers. Thats pretty much exactly the opposite of what ive said. I know Dirk is better than his numbers....

You are simply ignoring results because you have a preference for a more well rounded player. Which is fine, but you need to at least acknowledge your biased preference before you post.
Because

[creepingdeath]

Everything that Dirk did that will be remembered last year was in about 2 halves vs the Lakers, 3 games vs the Thunder, and a shot or two vs the Heat. It was hardly some season long rampage that just built momentum till he exploded in the playoffs. His season wasnt even noteworthy by the standards of players on his level.
That is not true. Before his injury, Dirk was beasting. He was literally tearing the league apart, and was on top of ESPN's, NBA.com's and Yahoo.com's MVP list. Even joyner made a thread where he said that the league should "just go ahead and give Dirk the MVP". Dirk was THAT good. After he went down, the Mavs went 2-7 without him and it took another two weeks for Dirk to get back into shape, but we still got a great seed. And we're not even considering Butler's and Roddy's injuries into the equation here.

Also, you can't seriously reduce Dirk's postseason to "2 halves vs the Lakers, 3 games vs the Thunder, and a shot or two vs the Heat". Come on, you're better than that.

Another thing: you're asking where all the guys are who claimed that Dirk deserves to be ranked as the best player. Well, those people (except one or two trolls) never existed. All we Mavs fans said was that Dirk is the reigning finals MVP, thus the one player in the league on the throne everyone else is gunning for. Lebron, hell, even Kobe said so. Dirk should be ranked as the #1 of the past season and deserved to be on top of the world the minute this current season began. He quickly dropped the rankings, but it's not like we Mavs fans didn't acknowledge that. You're asking why Dirk doesn't play that well? It's not a lack of motivation or exercise, like so many of you American fans want too read into Dirk's demeanor. He was exhausted and had several injuries after the playoffs, yet despite all that decided to play for his country at the Euros. Afterwards, the knee issues remained, so he couldn't work out the way he usually does. So don't give me the whole "Dirk doesn't care anymore now that he got his ring", "Dirk was just partying and not working out at all, his work ethic sucks" BS (I know you didn't imply that, kblaze, but many people on ISH do).

And finally: the Mavs will make the playoffs, anyway, so don't fret.

[DMAVS41]

This is where you and I begin to have problems. These are excuses. Oh poor dirk, some of his teammates have been injured..... stop it son.

I like how you throw virtually every key play under the bus except for your boy Dirk. If he played up to the whole "best player in the league" the Mavs wouldn't be teetering on the brink of not making the playoffs.

Who is claiming Dirk is the "best player in the league" this year? Where do you get that?

Its not excuses at all. It is reality. Dirk is playing fine. Great? No. Like an all nba player and all star? yes.

His team isn't very good...they have suffered injuries and set backs...and being the lone consistent player on a terrible offensive team drains a player. Especially a player as old as Dirk playing a condensed schedule.

6 games over .500. I fail to see how that is even underperforming with this group.

What should they be? Please answer.

[Kblaze8855]

Just so you know...I intend to read and likely answer that but im eating shitty food from JAck in the Box at the moment. I will say this though...

Im amused by the idea that you feel I need to preface my opinion on who the best player is by admitting a bias towards well rounded players.

What do the idiots who wait to see who wins before saying they are the best no matter what need to post before giving their opinions?

Neuroimaging results and a report from their doctor saying they arent as insane as they may seem?

[RaininTwos]

Who is claiming Dirk is the "best player in the league" this year? Where do you get that?

Its not excuses at all. It is reality. Dirk is playing fine. Great? No. Like an all nba player and all star? yes.

His team isn't very good...they have suffered injuries and set backs...and being the lone consistent player on a terrible offensive team drains a player. Especially a player as old as Dirk playing a condensed schedule.

6 games over .500. I fail to see how that is even underperforming with this group.

What should they be? Please answer.

Did I say he was best player this year? Please keep up sir. The fact is, people expect the best player of last year, to still be at least a top ten player. For the first half of season, dude wasnt even playing at an all star level smh.

His team is a good team, a playoff team. So, for a great player to miss the playoffs even though he has a good cast around would be a travesty. There really isnt anything that you can say to weasel your way around that.

[AlphaWolf24]

I don't really follow your post, but I thought Dirk deserved to be known as the best player in the league last year. This year? Totally different story. I'm confused why people can't just go off of what happens.

Last year Dirk was a beast in the regular season and led his team to 57 wins....a team that went 2-7 without him. Then he was easily the best player in the playoffs and led his huge underdog team to the title. Not sure why it would be questioned to have Dirk as the best player last year.

This year Dirk started off pretty poorly with a 14 game stretch where he basically averaged 15 points and was hobbling around the floor. Then he got healthy and for the last 2.5 months he's been playing well. Putting up his usual numbers on slightly worse efficiency. Which is expected with the condensed schedule and the inept offensive supporting cast he has.


"Dirk should be viewed as the best player last year....because he won a RING!!!!!!!!"




this is pretty much what you said...whether you know it or not...

Dirk has had much better seasons...when he didn't win a title..

[kenny817]

This is where you and I begin to have problems. These are excuses. Oh poor dirk, some of his teammates have been injured..... stop it son.

I like how you throw virtually every key play under the bus except for your boy Dirk. If he played up to the whole "best player in the league" the Mavs wouldn't be teetering on the brink of not making the playoffs.
Didn't a prime Kobe-led Lakers miss the playoffs one year?

[RaininTwos]

Didn't a prime Kobe-led Lakers miss the playoffs one year?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

That's a REACH!!! Kobe had a way worse cast. You cant be serious.

[Droid101]

Didn't a prime Kobe-led Lakers miss the playoffs one year?
Kobe missed a lot of games that season. Also, their starting center missed most of the games, and their starting Power Forward retired before the season started.

Not sure what this has to do with Dallas' run this season.

[DMAVS41]

Did I say he was best player this year? Please keep up sir. The fact is, people expect the best player of last year, to still be at least a top ten player. For the first half of season, dude wasnt even playing at an all star level smh.

His team is a good team, a playoff team. So, for a great player to miss the playoffs even though he has a good cast around would be a travesty. There really isnt anything that you can say to weasel your way around that.

I'd say Dirk is still a top 10 player this year.

And last year has nothing to do with this year.

[DMAVS41]

"Dirk should be viewed as the best player last year....because he won a RING!!!!!!!!"




this is pretty much what you said...whether you know it or not...

Dirk has had much better seasons...when he didn't win a title..

It was how he played while leading his team in both the regular season and playoffs. Not just that he won...how he won.

Dirk did not have much better seasons. I'd say he was probably at his best in 06 or 09. You act like I didn't think Dirk was close to the best player in those seasons. I did think it....LOL.

[RaininTwos]

I'd say Dirk is still a top 10 player this year.

And last year has nothing to do with this year.


That's extremely debatable.

I would say that he's in the 11-15 range.

[AlphaWolf24]

It was how he played while leading his team in both the regular season and playoffs. Not just that he won...how he won.

Dirk did not have much better seasons. I'd say he was probably at his best in 06 or 09. You act like I didn't think Dirk was close to the best player in those seasons. I did think it....LOL.


how he won?....he had identical stats in 06' when he lost....

so you once again said ...he was better because he won...

[guy]

Dirk would have gotten legit MVP consideration if the Mavs had won 63 games.

I highly doubt he would've. 23 ppg isn't anything that special and 7 rpg is pretty awful for a PF of his caliber. Like KBlaze said though, he is better then this stats, but voters wouldn't have put that much strong consideration for him after realizing that.

With that said, I do think he was the best player last year for all the reasons you stated. He was far from the best in the regular season, but when it mattered he was while alot of other players took a step back.

I always find it hard to measure who is the best player at any given moment. What does that really mean? Who would I pick on my team to win a game tomorrow? Probably Lebron but who cares if he'd most likely be the best player in a meaningless regular season game especially when there are serious questions about what he can do when it matters. If its based on resume, then Kobe and Duncan are clearly the top 2, but it sounds absolutely absurd to say Duncan is that high up anymore. If its who I would rather build my team around going forward, pretty much every old player including Kobe isn't even top 10. And I can't just measure it on skillset and intangibles cause the impact of those seem to change frequently especially depending on situation. The best I can think of is who's been the best so far in the current season, who would I rather have for the rest of the season, or a combination of both.

[DMAVS41]

how he won?....he had identical stats in 06' when he lost....

so you once again said ...he was better because he won...

I don't think Dirk was better last year than 06 though. So your point holds no water.

In fact, I think Dirk was better in 06 and 09...as I have said repeatedly here.

[DMAVS41]

I highly doubt he would've. 23 ppg isn't anything that special and 7 rpg is pretty awful for a PF of his caliber. Like KBlaze said though, he is better then this stats, but voters wouldn't have put that much strong consideration for him after realizing that.

With that said, I do think he was the best player last year for all the reasons you stated. He was far from the best in the regular season, but when it mattered he was while alot of other players took a step back.

I always find it hard to measure who is the best player at any given moment. What does that really mean? Who would I pick on my team to win a game tomorrow? Probably Lebron but who cares if he'd most likely be the best player in a meaningless regular season game especially when there are serious questions about what he can do when it matters. If its based on resume, then Kobe and Duncan are clearly the top 2, but it sounds absolutely absurd to say Duncan is that high up anymore. If its who I would rather build my team around going forward, pretty much every old player including Kobe isn't even top 10. And I can't just measure it on skillset and intangibles cause the impact of those seem to change frequently especially depending on situation. The best I can think of is who's been the best so far in the current season, who would I rather have for the rest of the season, or a combination of both.

Before Dirk got hurt he was getting legit MVP consideration....so yes, he would have.

Dirk's numbers last year combined with 63 wins would have gotten him to either win it or get 2nd. Most likely he would have lost it to Rose, but he would have probably finished 2nd.

Again, he was getting legit MVP consideration during last year. So I don't understand your point on that. We saw it happen.

[AlphaWolf24]

I don't think Dirk was better last year than 06 though. So your point holds no water.

In fact, I think Dirk was better in 06 and 09...as I have said repeatedly here.

So you think Dirk was the best player in the NBA in 2006?

[DMAVS41]

That's extremely debatable.

I would say that he's in the 11-15 range.

I agree its debatable. And lets say he's 11th or something. Does it matter? What I will say is that since he got healthy Dirk has definitely been performing close to the level he normally does.

I just find it interesting how people want to ignore what is going on:

Completely new team with no training camp
Injured the first 20 games of the season
Condensed schedule for a near 34 year old
Inept offensive help
Injuries to teammates
Only reliable and consistent player on the team

And they are 6 games over .500. I keep asking and you don't answer. What should the Mavs be this year? How much better? Should they be better than the Lakers?

I mean...we are talking about 2 to 5 games only at most....that is my point.

[creepingdeath]

I highly doubt he would've. 23 ppg isn't anything that special and 7 rpg is pretty awful for a PF of his caliber. Like KBlaze said though, he is better then this stats, but voters wouldn't have put that much strong consideration for him after realizing that.
Dirk was averaging 25/8/2 on 54.5/40/88 and the Mavs were 24-6. He was on top of every MVP Watch list.

[DMAVS41]

So you think Dirk was the best player in the NBA in 2006?

I think Wade was the best player in 06...especially after how he played in the finals.

I'd rank Dirk and Kobe right behind him probably.

[RaininTwos]

I agree its debatable. And lets say he's 11th or something. Does it matter? What I will say is that since he got healthy Dirk has definitely been performing close to the level he normally does.

I just find it interesting how people want to ignore what is going on:

Completely new team with no training camp
Injured the first 20 games of the season
Condensed schedule for a near 34 year old
Inept offensive help
Injuries to teammates
Only reliable and consistent player on the team

And they are 6 games over .500. I keep asking and you don't answer. What should the Mavs be this year? How much better? Should they be better than the Lakers?

I mean...we are talking about 2 to 5 games only at most....that is my point.

Those two to five games that you mention so casually would be immense in such a tight race.:facepalm

Looking at the whole season, Dirk hasn't been good. You can only control yourself and he has been playing horrible at times.

I'm going to give you an example of another player who's stepped up when his team was down.

Josh Smith.

He's been a defensive anchor and a scoring machine this year while leading his team regardless of how badly the loss of their all star center hurt the hawks.

You make so many excuses for a hof player who's still near his prime. I cant believe this.

[DMAVS41]

Those two to five games that you mention so casually would be immense in such a tight race.:facepalm

Looking at the whole season, Dirk hasn't been good. You can only control yourself and he has been playing horrible at times.

I'm going to give you an example of another player who's stepped up when his team was down.

Josh Smith.

He's been a defensive anchor and a scoring machine this year while leading his team regardless of how badly the loss of their all star center hurt the hawks.

You make so many excuses for a hof player who's still near his prime. I cant believe this.

So Dirk hasn't stepped up since he got healthy? What the **** are you talking about? Dirk has relatively played great since February 1st.

And you avoided the question of course....because with just 4 more wins this year the Mavs would have the 3 seed. LOL...its just comical acting like this team or Dirk have underachieve or something. That is my point.

You continue to hold Dirk to a standard as if anyone is claiming he's a top 5 player this year. Nobody has said that....or at least I haven't. But claiming he's been horrible or something is just a joke. You yourself ranked him as high as 11th and at worst 15th.

Have you had a chance to actually watch the Mavs play or looked at how horrid this offense has been this year? Have you had a chance to comprehend what the Odom situation did to the team or all the nagging injuries that have prevented this team from ever really playing together? Have you taken the time to realize that a 34 year old and injured player is having to once again carry a team in the most grueling regular season the NBA has ever seen?

Again...what do you expect? Should they be better than the Lakers? Why won't you answer?

Has Paul underachieved then in LA? He's won only 2 more games.
Has Kobe underachieve then in LA? He's won only 4 more games.

The margins are so slim this season. The difference between 3rd and 9th in the West is just not all the big.

I'm not claiming Dirk is anything different than what he is this year. He'll be a 3rd team all nba player and all star. Which is exactly what he's been...even after playing the first month of the season hurt.

[guy]

Before Dirk got hurt he was getting legit MVP consideration....so yes, he would have.

Dirk's numbers last year combined with 63 wins would have gotten him to either win it or get 2nd. Most likely he would have lost it to Rose, but he would have probably finished 2nd.

Again, he was getting legit MVP consideration during last year. So I don't understand your point on that. We saw it happen.

His injury was earlier in the season. 5-10 players throughout a season get consideration for MVP. Amare Stoudemire got serious MVP consideration as well. More then likely, voters will look at his relatively paltry 23 ppg/7 rpg (for a PF) and probably look at their success as a team as more of a team effort as opposed to a team with one player that greatly overshadows everyone else, fair or unfair.

[RaininTwos]

So Dirk hasn't stepped up since he got healthy? What the **** are you talking about? Dirk has relatively played great since February 1st.
You keep asking questions that have nothing to do with what I said. Dirk was playing like hot trash the first half of the season, basically didnt deserve to be an all star. He has played better since, but I do not see how that makes this season good. Seriously.


And you avoided the question of course....because with just 4 more wins this year the Mavs would have the 3 seed. LOL...its just comical acting like this team or Dirk have underachieve or something. That is my point.

Your questions are comical. You deflect and deflect because in your eyes, Dirk must not be blamed. I'm not acting like they have underachieved, I'm telling you that they have underachieved. They are SEVENTH in their conference after winning a championship last year even though they still have plenty of talent on their roster.


You continue to hold Dirk to a standard as if anyone is claiming he's a top 5 player this year. Nobody has said that....or at least I haven't. But claiming he's been horrible or something is just a joke. You yourself ranked him as high as 11th and at worst 15th.

If you fall from the best one year, to number 11 the next, something is wrong. That is not good at all and yes, dude was trash at the beginning of the season.


Have you had a chance to actually watch the Mavs play or looked at how horrid this offense has been this year? Have you had a chance to comprehend what the Odom situation did to the team or all the nagging injuries that have prevented this team from ever really playing together? Have you taken the time to realize that a 34 year old and injured player is having to once again carry a team in the most grueling regular season the NBA has ever seen?

Bro, how many excuses are you going to make for Dirk? Kobe was doing work this season carrying his team, a team that people though could have been on the edge of imploding, yet you keep delivering this sob story. My god.


Again...what do you expect? Should they be better than the Lakers? Why won't you answer?

Why are you even asking questions like this? :biggums:

What does that have to with the possibility of the mavs missing the playoffs?


Has Paul underachieved then in LA? He's won only 2 more games.
Has Kobe underachieve then in LA? He's won only 4 more games.

The obvious answer is no.

you are great at posting bullshit but im not falling for this anymore.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think Wade was the best player in 06...especially after how he played in the finals.

I'd rank Dirk and Kobe right behind him probably.


So Dirk has a Amazing season.....is the League MVP...amazing Playoff run...but loses to the Heat in the Finals because wade has a few more FT's...

and Wade is better?

you just contradicted everything you said earlier..

[DMAVS41]

You keep asking questions that have nothing to do with what I said. Dirk was playing like hot trash the first half of the season, basically didnt deserve to be an all star. He has played better since, but I do not see how that makes this season good. Seriously.



Your questions are comical. You deflect and deflect because in your eyes, Dirk must not be blamed. I'm not acting like they have underachieved, I'm telling you that they have underachieved. They are SEVENTH in their conference after winning a championship last year even though they still have plenty of talent on their roster.



If you fall from the best one year, to number 11 the next, something is wrong. That is not good at all and yes, dude was trash at the beginning of the season.



Bro, how many excuses are you going to make for Dirk? Kobe was doing work this season carrying his team, a team that people though could have been on the edge of imploding, yet you keep delivering this sob story. My god.



Why are you even asking questions like this? :biggums:

What does that have to with the possibility of the mavs missing the playoffs?



The obvious answer is no.

you are great at posting bullshit but im not falling for this anymore.

Again. You won't answer the questions because they point out all the flaws in your argument.

Dirk did not play terribly at any point this year. He had a rough patch of games while playing injured. He was still easily the best player on this team.

Last year has nothing to do with this year. Nothing. Your argument there makes absolutely no sense. You keep coming in with this anger about Dirk being great last year. I don't care what Dirk did last year...its has no bearing whatsoever on him or his team this year.

You do the same with the Mavs last year vs this year. Totally different team with totally different players.

There are no excuses. I think Dirk overall has been around the 10th best player in the league this year. If he was better...the Mavs would have won a few more games. That is my exact point. Kobe has played with far more help. Has only 4 more wins. Paul has a better team. 2 more wins. The line between success and failure in a season like this is very slim.

I keep asking you what the Mavs record should be in your opinion because I'm just curious. The roster they have with the injuries and Odom situation has led to them being 32-26. I just want to know how much better you think they should be. Its not an unreasonable question. Should they be 40-18? Should they be 36-22? The answer matters because if its significantly different than their record right now your entire argument gets shredded.

Here is my summary of Dirk and the Mavs this year:

Dirk has been around the 10th best player overall. After he got healthy...he's gotten back to producing close to his normal levels. He will make an all nba team at the end of the year.

The Mavs roster is not great. While they have played very good defense, the offense is horrible. Due to a lot of the players being banged up and inconsistent, old, and just not that good....the offense has greatly suffered. Odom was terrible and a huge distraction all year.

This is a team that should be anywhere from 2 to 10 games over .500 at the end of the season. They are not a contender and any notion that they should be 3rd in the West given the roster is absurd.

[DMAVS41]

So Dirk has a Amazing season.....is the League MVP...amazing Playoff run...but loses to the Heat in the Finals because wade has a few more FT's...

and Wade is better?

you just contradicted everything you said earlier..

Dirk didn't win MVP in 06 for starters. Wade was also amazing in 06 in both the regular season and playoffs.

What Wade did in the finals was historic. You can't categorize it as just a few free throws. That is absurd.

I care more about the playoffs...always have and always will. Not a contradiction at all.

[RaininTwos]

Hold up gino, let me look at something real quick.


it would devastate dirks legacy in my eyes

i would probably laugh for a good bit though


lol @ people giving dirk a pass. i cant even remember the last time dirk missed the playoffs, but somehow losing chandler and butler is enough for him to excused.

This is where you and I begin to have problems. These are excuses. Oh poor dirk, some of his teammates have been injured..... stop it son.

I like how you throw virtually every key play under the bus except for your boy Dirk. If he played up to the whole "best player in the league" the Mavs wouldn't be teetering on the brink of not making the playoffs.


Did I say he was best player this year? Please keep up sir. The fact is, people expect the best player of last year, to still be at least a top ten player. For the first half of season, dude wasnt even playing at an all star level smh.

His team is a good team, a playoff team. So, for a great player to miss the playoffs even though he has a good cast around would be a travesty. There really isnt anything that you can say to weasel your way around that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

That's a REACH!!! Kobe had a way worse cast. You cant be serious.


Those two to five games that you mention so casually would be immense in such a tight race.:facepalm

Looking at the whole season, Dirk hasn't been good. You can only control yourself and he has been playing horrible at times.

I'm going to give you an example of another player who's stepped up when his team was down.

Josh Smith.

He's been a defensive anchor and a scoring machine this year while leading his team regardless of how badly the loss of their all star center hurt the hawks.

You make so many excuses for a hof player who's still near his prime. I cant believe this.


You keep asking questions that have nothing to do with what I said. Dirk was playing like hot trash the first half of the season, basically didnt deserve to be an all star. He has played better since, but I do not see how that makes this season good. Seriously.



Your questions are comical. You deflect and deflect because in your eyes, Dirk must not be blamed. I'm not acting like they have underachieved, I'm telling you that they have underachieved. They are SEVENTH in their conference after winning a championship last year even though they still have plenty of talent on their roster.



If you fall from the best one year, to number 11 the next, something is wrong. That is not good at all and yes, dude was trash at the beginning of the season.



Bro, how many excuses are you going to make for Dirk? Kobe was doing work this season carrying his team, a team that people though could have been on the edge of imploding, yet you keep delivering this sob story. My god.



Why are you even asking questions like this? :biggums:

What does that have to with the possibility of the mavs missing the playoffs?



The obvious answer is no.

you are great at posting bullshit but im not falling for this anymore.

[kenny817]

So Dirk has a Amazing season.....is the League MVP...amazing Playoff run...but loses to the Heat in the Finals because wade has a few more FT's...

and Wade is better?

you just contradicted everything you said earlier..

Dirk was MVP the year after

[RaininTwos]

Again. You won't answer the questions because they point out all the flaws in your argument.

Your questions are trash.


Dirk did not play terribly at any point this year. He had a rough patch of games while playing injured. He was still easily the best player on this team.

Are you serious???? He was garbage.


Last year has nothing to do with this year. Nothing. Your argument there makes absolutely no sense. You keep coming in with this anger about Dirk being great last year. I don't care what Dirk did last year...its has no bearing whatsoever on him or his team this year.

It's only NATURAL for someone to compare a player's current season to his past season to see whether or not they are playing at the same level, above or below. Stop being stupid.


You do the same with the Mavs last year vs this year. Totally different team with totally different players.

I have not. At all. Read my post.


There are no excuses. I think Dirk overall has been around the 10th best player in the league this year. If he was better...the Mavs would have won a few more games. That is my exact point. Kobe has played with far more help. Has only 4 more wins. Paul has a better team. 2 more wins. The line between success and failure in a season like this is very slim.

I keep asking you what the Mavs record should be in your opinion because I'm just curious. The roster they have with the injuries and Odom situation has led to them being 32-26. I just want to know how much better you think they should be. Its not an unreasonable question. Should they be 40-18? Should they be 36-22? The answer matters because if its significantly different than their record right now your entire argument gets shredded.

Here is my summary of Dirk and the Mavs this year:

Dirk has been around the 10th best player overall. After he got healthy...he's gotten back to producing close to his normal levels. He will make an all nba team at the end of the year.

The Mavs roster is not great. While they have played very good defense, the offense is horrible. Due to a lot of the players being banged up and inconsistent, old, and just not that good....the offense has greatly suffered. Odom was terrible and a huge distraction all year.

This is a team that should be anywhere from 2 to 10 games over .500 at the end of the season. They are not a contender and any notion that they should be 3rd in the West given the roster is absurd.

Didnt read because you get so caught up in arguments that you forget what the thread is about.

[DMAVS41]

Your questions are trash.



Are you serious???? He was garbage.



It's only NATURAL for someone to compare a player's current season to his past season to see whether or not they are playing at the same level, above or below. Stop being stupid.



I have not. At all. Read my post.



Didnt read because you get so caught up in arguments that you forget what the thread is about.

Of course you didn't read. You have been destroyed. Saying things like it would tarnish Dirk's legacy. As if this is a normal season with normal circumstances and acting as if his supporting cast hasn't been "garbage"...to use your word.

Fine. Lets categorize Dirk's play during those 14 games as garbage. Then stay consistent. How would you categorize Dirk's help this year? Garbage?

Just answer the question. What do you think this Mavs team should be doing this year? What do you think their record should be? Please answer.

[knickswin]

Mavs just aren't very talented. They struggled to score without Dirk on the floor last year, and it hasn't gotten any better this year.

[tpols]

I think we're seeing how important Tyson chandler was to this team.

[DMAVS41]

Mavs just aren't very talented. They struggled to score without Dirk on the floor last year, and it hasn't gotten any better this year.

Yea. That is what happens when you have only 1 consistent player or star on your team. If that player doesn't play at an elite level....then the team falls apart.

And that is exactly what has happened this year. Dirk this year has not been elite and I don't think he's capable of carrying a team night in night out like he has the majority of his career. Maybe he will be next season with a normal schedule, but the condensed schedule has really taken a toll on this old ass team.

[DMAVS41]

I think we're seeing how important Tyson chandler was to this team.

The Mavs definitely miss Chandler, but its the offense that has been terrible. We miss Butler and Barea more than Chandler actually.

Not that Chandler didn't impact offense, but not to the extent of fixing the Mavs problems.

Putting this all on Chandler is just not accurate or fair. The condensed schedule, injuries, and new players have far more to do with the Mavs performance than missing Chandler.

[creepingdeath]

I think we're seeing how important Tyson chandler was to this team.
I am torn on this one. The Mavs have actually been great defensively when healthy. It's the offense that is just atrociously anemic.

I guess - but everyone knew this when it had became clear that Chandler and the Mavs will part ways - what the Mavs are really missing are Tyson's easy lay-ups and alley hoops off Kidd, and, more importantly, his locker room presence. A guy like Terry knows that he'll get no big contract from us next year; Haywood isn't so dumb as to be ignorant to his looming buy-out; and Odumb did his part to destroy the team's chemistry. Injuries have done their part, too. Things just don't seem to fall into place.

Anyhow, the Mavs will make the playoffs. The question remains whether they can do some damage there.

[ErhnamDjinn]

The Mavs definitely miss Chandler, but its the offense that has been terrible. We miss Butler and Barea more than Chandler actually.

Not that Chandler didn't impact offense, but not to the extent of fixing the Mavs problems.

Putting this all on Chandler is just not accurate or fair. The condensed schedule, injuries, and new players have far more to do with the Mavs performance than missing Chandler.
yup the team has stretches were there just to tired, no offensive scorer, I think if they still had a butler providing them with a consistent 17 pts and the occasional 10-12pt games of JJ they would be much better. Doesnt help also that they lost Stevenson who had timely 3's and actually spaced the floor, which actually makes me wonder why we just traded Brewer and Fernandez?:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

yup the team has stretches were there just to tired, no offensive scorer, I think if they still had a butler providing them with a consistent 17 pts and the occasional 10-12pt games of JJ they would be much better. Doesnt help also that they lost Stevenson who had timely 3's and actually spaced the floor, which actually makes me wonder why we just traded Brewer and Fernandez?:biggums:

I really wanted to keep Brewer. Loved his game and his potential. You put Butler on this team and we have 5 more wins at minimum. He's exactly what we've been missing. A consistent offensive player that can get you 20 plus at times.

And that is my exact point with all this talk. As bad as this team has been, they are still 6 games over .500...and forget everything with the schedule and injuries.

Just imagine that we never signed odom and we had a guy like Butler filling in the that spot. Its a huge difference. And with the 5 or 6 more for sure wins we'd have....you'd be looking at a team at 38-20 or something close to it. 3rd in the west.

Its just such a slim margin between success and failure in a season like this. And that is what makes the Odom thing so devastating. He was brought in to be the 2nd best player on the team. In reality he was by far the worst player on the team.

[swi7ch]

MIA beaten by a fluke team!

SMH :facepalm

[RaininTwos]

Of course you didn't read. You have been destroyed. Saying things like it would tarnish Dirk's legacy. As if this is a normal season with normal circumstances and acting as if his supporting cast hasn't been "garbage"...to use your word.

Fine. Lets categorize Dirk's play during those 14 games as garbage. Then stay consistent. How would you categorize Dirk's help this year? Garbage?

Just answer the question. What do you think this Mavs team should be doing this year? What do you think their record should be? Please answer.

Ive been destroyed? You keep switching your points.

It would tarnish his legacy because I answered the question the OP asked instead of riding dirk all day. If Dirk didnt make the playoffs it would be one of the weakest title defenses ever. How does that not tarnish ones legacy a little? I know he's highly regarded but come on dude, that is horrible.

This isnt football, for you to win a championship, keep most of your team and then NOT make the playoffs the following season is sad as hell.

The Mavs shouldn't be in seventh. I didnt expect that at all. I had them pegged as a top five seed this year. As for what their record should be, I have no clue because I didnt predict their win total for this year lol.

Now that I have answered your questions, let me ask you some.

Why do you continually disparage Dirk's cast?

I understand Odom was a bust for you guys, but you gave up a freaking trade exception for him. Why are constantly bringing him up? Acquisitions dont workout all the damn time. Boo hoo.

Now as for Dirk's season, it isnt good when you compare it to his others. Which is what I have been doing. This is his second worst shooting season ever. 3rd lowest in scoring but somehow dude is having a good season????

Chew on those facts for a bit and then come back here with some unrelated, completely irrational questions like:
"well, what did you expect dirk to shoot from the field?"

"did you expect the mavs offense to be this bad?"

[Eric Cartman]

lol @ people giving dirk a pass. i cant even remember the last time dirk missed the playoffs, but somehow losing chandler and butler is enough for him to excused.

Dallas won't miss the playoffs i don't know where you are getting at.

[DMAVS41]

Ive been destroyed? You keep switching your points.

It would tarnish his legacy because I answered the question the OP asked instead of riding dirk all day. If Dirk didnt make the playoffs it would be one of the weakest title defenses ever. How does that not tarnish ones legacy a little? I know he's highly regarded but come on dude, that is horrible.

This isnt football, for you to win a championship, keep most of your team and then NOT make the playoffs the following season is sad as hell.

The Mavs shouldn't be in seventh. I didnt expect that at all. I had them pegged as a top five seed this year. As for what their record should be, I have no clue because I didnt predict their win total for this year lol.

Now that I have answered your questions, let me ask you some.

Why do you continually disparage Dirk's cast?

I understand Odom was a bust for you guys, but you gave up a freaking trade exception for him. Why are constantly bringing him up? Acquisitions dont workout all the damn time. Boo hoo.

Now as for Dirk's season, it isnt good when you compare it to his others. Which is what I have been doing. This is his second worst shooting season ever. 3rd lowest in scoring but somehow dude is having a good season????

Chew on those facts for a bit and then come back here with some unrelated, completely irrational questions like:
"well, what did you expect dirk to shoot from the field?"

"did you expect the mavs offense to be this bad?"


Uhhhhh....no.

How could Dirk tarnish his legacy by still being somewhere around the 10th best player in the league at his age? Makes no sense.

They didn't bring most players back. Are you kidding me? They lost Chandler, Barea, Stevenson, Butler, and Peja.

And its not a normal season. Is that completely lost on you? They had all that turnover...and then they had no training camp at all.

Should we ignore that Dirk was clearly injured for the first month of the season as well? Tarnish a legacy? You have to ****ing insane.

You say they should be the 5th seed. Do you realize that the Mavs are a whopping 2 games out of the 5th seed right now. 2 games. LOL

Lets point out a few things that should be obvious to anyone with a brain. If a player nearing the age of 34 is injured for about a 6 week stretch in a shortened season like this, his overall numbers are going to suffer a lot more than a normal 82 game schedule. In addition to that, the condensed schedule is a lot harder on an older player having to carry a team night in night out than it is on younger players or players with a legit 2nd or 3rd guy.

And even with all of that. Dirk is still putting up over 21 a game on 46/36/88 splits.

It doesn't matter what Dirk has done in the past. Do you understand that players get worse as they reach this age?

The fact that he's still an all nba player given his injuries, team, and this schedule is impressive. Hell, its impressive this Mavs team is 6 games over .500 after dealing with all their injuries and the Odom situation.

Its just comical. You want to freak out that they are currently 7th in the west when they are only 2 games from 5th and 2.5 games from 4th. The margins are extremely small.

If this was an 82 game schedule with all the normal time off and training camp...etc. You'd see a much different team and product on the floor.

You can't ignore stuff like that. But you must hold Dirk to a pretty high standard if his play this year at age 34 still being an all nba player and all star is going to tarnish his legacy. :wtf:


And who is arguing with you about Dirk this year compared to other years. Dirk is not playing as well as he did for most of his prime. Who is debating that. Dirk went from being a top 5 player every year to now being somewhere around the 10th best player. You have said that yourself. So who is disputing you saying this isn't a great year for Dirk compared to other years for Dirk? Nobody that I have seen.

Our points...or at least my point is that he's been a lot better than you give him credit for....and you have to at least understand the circumstances. If this was a normal season...I'd be much more critical. But with all the circumstances...I just can't see how any of this is on Dirk or how this Mavs team is somehow underachieving to the extent you claim.

[RazorBaLade]

I'd be a little disappointed in dirk but frankly for a top 20 all time player theres lesser expectations and thus this isn't that bad.

[RaininTwos]

Uhhhhh....no.

How could Dirk tarnish his legacy by still being somewhere around the 10th best player in the league at his age? Makes no sense.
You seriously that stupid? This whole thread is about assuming that the Mavs don't make the playoffs. The thing that you placed so much importance on last year when it made Dirk look good.


They didn't bring most players back. Are you kidding me? They lost Chandler, Barea, Stevenson, Butler, and Peja.
Dude that's five players and peja and Stevenson played sporadically. Caron was out in early January. Come on now.




And its not a normal season. Is that completely lost on you? They had all that turnover...and then they had no training camp at all.
:cry:

LOL, everyone has gone through the same thing, its not like the NBA took away training camp for the mavs only. They have the same coach and most of their centerpieces are still present. Again, stop exaggerating just how difficult this is for them. This is pathetic.


Should we ignore that Dirk was clearly injured for the first month of the season as well? Tarnish a legacy? You have to ****ing insane

Still spouting retarded shit I see. Hi gino. We see you.


You say they should be the 5th seed. Do you realize that the Mavs are a whopping 2 games out of the 5th seed right now. 2 games. LOL

They are also two games from being out the playoffs. LOL.

Your point?:confusedshrug:


Lets point out a few things that should be obvious to anyone with a brain. If a player nearing the age of 34 is injured for about a 6 week stretch in a shortened season like this, his overall numbers are going to suffer a lot more than a normal 82 game schedule. In addition to that, the condensed schedule is a lot harder on an older player having to carry a team night in night out than it is on younger players or players with a legit 2nd or 3rd guy.

You are being redundant dude. We've seen this lifetime network special before. A real tear-jerker

*Grabs kleenex*


And even with all of that. Dirk is still putting up over 21 a game on 46/36/88 splits.

You do realize those are horrible numbers for him right? Just checking.


It doesn't matter what Dirk has done in the past. Do you understand that players get worse as they reach this age?

I know its hard to give fallatio and think at the same time, but its the steep drop off that is reason for concern. I understand that players taper off at the end of their careers.


The fact that he's still an all nba player given his injuries, team, and this schedule is impressive. Hell, its impressive this Mavs team is 6 games over .500 after dealing with all their injuries and the Odom situation.

Its just comical. You want to freak out that they are currently 7th in the west when they are only 2 games from 5th and 2.5 games from 4th. The margins are extremely small.

He's supposed to make All-NBA teams, if you want to praise him for that, go ahead. I'm not stopping you, I just know in terms of his career, this season hasn't been good. End of story.

Please explain this to me, you throw the whole team under the bus. Say that their offense is trash, he has no consistent second option,etc but somehow not once has the fact that the margin for error is virtually non-existent bothered or concerned you at all. How is that possible?

I'm nowhere near freaking out. I'm wondering how you got that from my responses. I said that I would laugh my ass off if the scenario this thread is predicated on, came to fruition. You were the one in here playing first team dirk riding, throwing the rest of the mavs under the bus when he should be blamed as well.

[DMAVS41]

You seriously that stupid? This whole thread is about assuming that the Mavs don't make the playoffs. The thing that you placed so much importance on last year when it made Dirk look good.


Dude that's five players and peja and Stevenson played sporadically. Caron was out in early January. Come on now.




:cry:

LOL, everyone has gone through the same thing, its not like the NBA took away training camp for the mavs only. They have the same coach and most of their centerpieces are still present. Again, stop exaggerating just how difficult this is for them. This is pathetic.



Still spouting retarded shit I see. Hi gino. We see you.



They are also two games from being out the playoffs. LOL.

Your point?:confusedshrug:



You are being redundant dude. We've seen this lifetime network special before. A real tear-jerker

*Grabs kleenex*



You do realize those are horrible numbers for him right? Just checking.



I know its hard to give fallatio and think at the same time, but its the steep drop off that is reason for concern. I understand that players taper off at the end of their careers.



He's supposed to make All-NBA teams, if you want to praise him for that, go ahead. I'm not stopping you, I just know in terms of his career, this season hasn't been good. End of story.

Please explain this to me, you throw the whole team under the bus. Say that their offense is trash, he has no consistent second option,etc but somehow not once has the fact that the margin for error is virtually non-existent bothered or concerned you at all. How is that possible?

I'm nowhere near freaking out. I'm wondering how you got that from my responses. I said that I would laugh my ass off if the scenario this thread is predicated on, came to fruition. You were the one in here playing first team dirk riding, throwing the rest of the mavs under the bus when he should be blamed as well.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

You said yourself that Dirk will make an all nba team. You said yourself that the Mavs are about where you expected them to be record wise. Well, 2 games off what you expected.

I just don't see how a player being around the 10th best player in this regular season at Dirk's age is going to tarnish his legacy. It just doesn't make sense at all.

You simply can't tarnish a legacy by playing quality basketball coming off an injury in a shortened season like this when you are in your 14th at age 34.

There is nothing Dirk or any player at his age with his type of career could do to tarnish their legacy....but the notion that playing at an all nba an allstar level would is beyond absurd.

So what do you disagree with me on? You rank Dirk pretty close this season to where I do. We both agree that Dirk is not playing at the same level he has in the past. We both agree that the Mavs record should roughly be where they are now. You said 5th seed. I think 6 games over .500 is actually pretty impressive for this group.

So what do you disagree with? I haven't made this all about Dirk's supporting cast like you claim. Dirk hasn't been elite this year. He's just been very good. That is why he'll make 3rd team all nba and not first. Its why his team is struggling to make the playoffs.

But do you really expect to just make this all about Dirk and not his supporting cast? The supporting cast riddled with injuries, inconsistent play, the odom situation...etc. Or how about at least recognizing the impact of the shortened season has had on both Dirk and his team.

You seem to be confused. I'm not claiming Dirk to be anything different than what he is this year. A player that started off slowly and then picked it up. A player that was a borderline all star and a player that will deserve to make 3rd team all nba. A player that is no in that elite group and ranks somewhere around 10th.

We agree on pretty much everything....unless you are going to change your tune now...LOL

Where we disagree is what impact Dirk's play this year would have on his legacy. Which would be minimal if at all. And you should educate yourself on the Mavs team this year compared to last year. We lost a lot of key players. The idea that this is even remotely the same team that won the title last year is a joke. Sorry...

[Mavsfan31]

They're just trying to get the 7th or 8th seed so they can knock OKC out in the 1st round

[tpols]

The Mavs definitely miss Chandler, but its the offense that has been terrible. We miss Butler and Barea more than Chandler actually.

Not that Chandler didn't impact offense, but not to the extent of fixing the Mavs problems.

Putting this all on Chandler is just not accurate or fair. The condensed schedule, injuries, and new players have far more to do with the Mavs performance than missing Chandler.
I think Chandler was more important to this offense than it would seem.. Dallas's offense is mainly Dirk Isos, PnRs, and transition opportunities especially last year. Tyson was the best offensive rebounder, finisher, and pick setter on the team plus he ran the floor great. 10ppg on 60+% from the field just gone plus all of those intangibles.. tipping out countless offensive rebounds, setting great picks and rolling hard to the basket. He was part of the great spacing and offensive coordination the team had.

[DMAVS41]

I think Chandler was more important to this offense than it would seem.. Dallas's offense is mainly Dirk Isos, PnRs, and transition opportunities especially last year. Tyson was the best offensive rebounder, finisher, and pick setter on the team plus he ran the floor great. 10ppg on 60+% from the field just gone plus all of those intangibles.. tipping out countless offensive rebounds, setting great picks and rolling hard to the basket. He was part of the great spacing and offensive coordination the team had.

All of those things are true, but the Mavs had great offenses without him for years. Like I said, its a factor, but not a major one.

Injuries, lack of chemistry, players not playing as well this year, and the shortened schedule are all much bigger factors in the offensive play than missing chandler.

If the Mavs had gotten Odom to produce normally or simply replaced him with someone who could....pretty much all the issues would have been solved.

Chandler's impact simply isn't large enough offensively to explain the offensive issues. Its far bigger than a center that can't score on his own that sets good picks.

[DMAVS41]

And the hits keep on coming. Jazz blowing out the Rockets in Houston tonight. Suns staying close to the Grizzlies in Memphis. Denver up huge at home.

Sigh...

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

And the hits keep on coming. Jazz blowing out the Rockets in Houston tonight.

That is a good thing.

Utah is irrelevant.

[DMAVS41]

That is a good thing.

Utah is irrelevant.

Why? They have a much easier schedule than the Mavs and we play them in Utah.

Its the Suns that don't matter likely. They have an impossible schedule. The Jazz are actually "THE THREAT" to the Mavs not making the playoffs. LOL

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Why? They have a much easier schedule than the Mavs and we play them in Utah.

Its the Suns that don't matter likely. They have an impossible schedule. The Jazz are actually "THE THREAT" to the Mavs not making the playoffs. LOL

The Mavs have 9 games left. The Mavs are 1 1/2 games aheade of the Jazz (counting the win tonight).... And Dallas is 3-0 against Utah this year. So they have the head to head tie breaker... essentially putting them up another game.

Utah is not a threat... hence irrelevant.

[DMAVS41]

The Mavs have 9 games left. The Mavs are 1 1/2 games aheade of the Jazz (counting the win tonight).... And Dallas is 3-0 against Utah this year. So they have the head to head tie breaker... essentially putting them up another game.

Utah is not a threat... hence irrelevant.

1.5 games is nothing. And the Mavs have 8 games left. Not 9. We play them in Utah. We lose that game and we lose a full game in the standings.

Not to mention the Jazz have a considerably easier schedule. You have no ****ing clue what you are talking about.

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people are.

The Jazz could quite easily go 5-2 their remaining 7 games. That means the Mavs would have to go 4-4 to get in. So the Mavs have a better chance, but its nowhere near a sure thing like you claim. The Mavs play the Lakers and Bulls on the road. Two likely losses. So if you count those as losses they have to go 4-2 the other 6 games. Hardly a sure thing. The upcoming games against the Warriors and Blazers will be the telling signs. If we win both...we are probably going to make it for sure. If we drop 1, we have to hope we win a couple games we shouldn't...or hope the Jazz fall apart.

Have you bothered to look at the schedule at all? The Mavs play 6 of our last 8 games on the road...including a game at Utah. The Jazz have only 3 road games remaining. 1 of them comes against the Hornets.