Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

[Mr. Jabbar]

1-CP3
2-Rondo

gap

Rose,Nash,Deron etc etc..

can we?

[PHaYze]

Rose is the best SG

[Mr. Jabbar]

Rose is the best SG

I'll agree on that hes not a traditional pg nor is Wesstbrick.

[Clippersfan86]

1-CP3
2-Rondo

gap

Rose,Nash,Deron etc etc..

can we?

Lately at least... no question. Both players have been insane since the all star break.

[SyRyanYang]

At this moment, I agree. But D-will will come back next season!!

[PickernRoller]

At this moment, I agree. But D-will will come back next season!!

As a Mavericks :oldlol:

[ClutchOver9000]

CP3 has again cemented himself as the best PG in the game

:applause:

[Eric Cartman]

This year it has to be Rondo. Last year it was Rose. Consistently over the years it's been Nash, then CP3, Nash. It's a very wide of questions and arguments that can be made for each player. That being said Rondo helping the aging Celtics to remain contenders is enough to put him #1 in my book.

[smush=mvp!]

I think D-Will has what it takes to be a better player, but Rondo and CP3 are definitely the 1a1b best PGs in the league

[gtfomyface]

rose is a good player but i don't think he impacts the game as much as rondo or cp3 does

[Clippersfan86]

rose is a good player but i don't think he impacts the game as much as rondo or cp3 does

:applause: Agree. Take CP3 and Rondo off the Celtics and Clippers and they fall apart. They are truly the engine of their teams. Take Rose off Bulls, Westbrook off Thunder and they are still a contender.

[Stern]

Cant wait for the playoffs since both guys always turn it on and post big numbers.:pimp:

[Mr. Jabbar]

:applause: Agree. Take CP3 and Rondo off the Celtics and Clippers and they fall apart. They are truly the engine of their teams. Take Rose off Bulls, Westbrook off Thunder and they are still a contender.

pretty much, besides, an eye pleasing point guard is one of the most delightful sights in basketball, and cp3/rondo are second to no1 in this category as well.

[Sarcastic]

Deron pretty much tanked this year, since he did not care at all. If you give him decent pieces, he's right there with CP3. D-Will is a little better scorer than Paul, but Paul is the better passer.

[Clippersfan86]

pretty much, besides, an eye pleasing point guard is one of the most delightful sights in basketball, and cp3/rondo are second to no1 in this category as well.

Yup. Their passes and ability to command every aspect of a game is simply incredible to watch. I never get that feeling with Rose and Westbrook. With those two guys it's like great you can score.... but they don't have the same control of games/tempo. Another thing I noticed is Rondo and CP3 are both very vocal floor generals while I never seen Westbrook+Rose telling teammates what to do or where to be etc.

That's something that is VITAL to a PG and should not be ignored. Watch all the top PG's in NBA history like Magic, Stockton, Zeke, Nash, Kidd, Payton etc. You'll see them constantly talking and commanding the floor. NEVER see that with Rose or Westbrook. You can always hear CP3 yelling and telling teammates what he sees. Telling teammates where to go, where to set a screen etc.

It cracks me up because I'll always hear his higher pitched voice yelling "Hey guys!" "Fellas!" "Come here!!" etc.

[Pushxx]

It's hard to seperate all of these PGs are individual players.

What is easy to understand is that the Celtics, Clippers, and Suns would be awful lottery teams without their respective point guards. The Bulls, Thunder, and Spurs would still make the playoffs.

[Clippersfan86]

It's hard to seperate all of these PGs are individual players.

What is easy to understand is that the Celtics, Clippers, and Suns would be awful lottery teams without their respective point guards. The Bulls, Thunder, and Spurs would still make the playoffs.

More than make playoffs. They would be HCA teams. I agree Nash belongs in this discussion too. His impact is MASSIVE.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Yup. Their passes and ability to command every aspect of a game is simply incredible to watch. I never get that feeling with Rose and Westbrook. With those two guys it's like great you can score.... but they don't have the same control of games/tempo. Another thing I noticed is Rondo and CP3 are both very vocal floor generals while I never seen Westbrook+Rose telling teammates what to do or where to be etc.

That's something that is VITAL to a PG and should not be ignored. Watch all the top PG's in NBA history like Magic, Stockton, Zeke, Nash, Kidd, Payton etc. You'll see them constantly talking and commanding the floor. NEVER see that with Rose or Westbrook. You can always hear CP3 yelling and telling teammates what he sees. Telling teammates where to go, where to set a screen etc.

It cracks me up because I'll always hear his higher pitched voice yelling "Hey guys!" "Fellas!" "Come here!!" etc.

Exactly.

[Celtic_Pride]

Rondo is amazing, but I have Deron above him in my list

In terms of 'Point Guards':

CP3
Deron
Rondo
Nash

[Clippersfan86]

Rondo is amazing, but I have Deron above him in my list

In terms of 'Point Guards':

CP3
Deron
Rondo
Nash

Naw man. Rondo has his team 10 games over .500 after being out of the playoff picture early in season. Not only that but since all star break he's been amazing. Deron has good stats on a bad team that is arguably a top 5 worst in league. His efficiency is complete sh** too. Rondo>Deron right now IMO.

[Celtic_Pride]

Naw man. Rondo has his team 10 games over .500 after being out of the playoff picture early in season. Not only that but since all star break he's been amazing. Deron has good stats on a bad team that is arguably a top 5 worst in league. His efficiency is complete sh** too. Rondo>Deron right now IMO.

That's obviously got to do with the talent in their teams. Deron is a pass first PG who is a monster scorer.

If you meant performance based on this year, Rondo was better. But considering their overall PG abilities, I will pick Deron!

Also Celtics were never out of playoff picture. Injuries and chemistry hurt them pretty bad before AS break!

[chazzy]

Why is Boston so bad offensively? They've been average for the past two seasons, but this year they're the 4th worst offense.. turnovers and lack of offensive rebounding?

[talkingconch]

Rose is the best SG
http://vicorientation.ca/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/AndHereWeGo.gif

[D-Wade316]

Shameless idiots have Westbrick in the 1st team over Paul. :oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

Shameless idiots have Westbrick in the 1st team over Paul. :oldlol:

Best part was OKC fans+CP3 trolls talking about Westbrook shitting on CP3 first half... only to watch him score 28 points in the last 25 minutes of the game and carry the Clippers to a win by scoring 10 of the teams last 11 points. I told them CP3 saves it for the second half. NEVER count this guy out at halftime because it's a regular thing where he has 2-5 points at half.. yet he averages 19 ppg so what does that tell you?

[ballinhun8]

Wow.. Can't believe the short term memory people have.




Must be a west coast thing. Acting as if Rondo is the only reason?? I no couldn't possibly be that Kg is having a fantastic second half and Bradley stepping up big time.



Wait til the playoffs when a guy like Paul gets eliminated round 1 and teams dare Rondo to beat me and not the other big 3.




Can't believe the op is actually a good poster too and made a knee jerk thread like this.

[nathanjizzle]

this thread should be renamed "retards unite"

[nathanjizzle]

:applause: Agree. Take CP3 and Rondo off the Celtics and Clippers and they fall apart. They are truly the engine of their teams. Take Rose off Bulls, Westbrook off Thunder and they are still a contender.

i dont understand, last year you were claiming how griffin is going to take the clippers to the promise land. now your saying without cp3 the clippers would fall apart.:roll:

[alenleomessi]

CP3 has been the best PG in the league since that 2007/2008 season where he should have won the MVP

[Tenchi Ryu]

Wow.. Can't believe the short term memory people have.



Can't believe the op is actually a good poster too and made a knee jerk thread like this.
Didn't even waste my time posting.

[Tenchi Ryu]

this thread should be renamed "retards unite"
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[REACTION]

If we're looking at this season on its own, I absolutely have to have CP3 in my top 2. I'm holding off to see where Rose/CP3/Rondo/Westbrook all stack up after the regular season ends and the playoffs begin.

[MMM]

I appreciate all the star PG's in the league
Nash, Rondo, Rose, CP3, Deron, Parker and Westbrook.

Instead of seeing it as hating on a few over the other, one should understand that there is different things each bring to the table and preferring one over the other isn't the slight that some might think it is.

In terms of pure pg ability give me
Rondo, Cp3 and Nash

in terms of scoring especially down the stretch give me
Rose, Deron, Westbrook, and Parker

If I'm building a team around one of these 7 PG's it will largely depend on the other pieces to determine who I would take.

[alenleomessi]

I appreciate all the star PG's in the league
Nash, Rondo, Rose, CP3, Deron, Parker and Westbrook.

Instead of seeing it as hating on a few over the other, one should understand that there is different things each bring to the table and preferring one over the other isn't the slight that some might think it is.

In terms of pure pg ability give me
Rondo, Cp3 and Nash

in terms of scoring especially down the stretch give me
Rose, Deron, Westbrook, and Parker

If I'm building a team around one of these 7 PG's it will largely depend on the other pieces to determine who I would take.
Thats why CP3 is the best... he can do both of those things with ease

[Fiasco]

Thats why CP3 is the best... he can do both of those things with ease

Yup.

[MMM]

Thats why CP3 is the best... he can do both of those things with ease

Yes CP3/Deron are probably the most balanced but their are other attributes to consider. I don't want to simplify the PG position to scoring and playmaking.

[Clippersfan86]

No PG is as good as CP3 when it comes to ability to consistently take over and dominate games late and take over down the stretch with scoring.

[Fiasco]

Yes CP3/Deron are probably the most balanced but their are other attributes to consider. I don't want to simplify the PG position to scoring and playmaking.

That's probably what you want most out of your point guard, though. Having a lock down PG is nice too but backcourt players hardly (if ever) anchor a defense. Generally what you want out of your point guards is the ability to see plays before they happen and execute them, find the right guy to get the ball to him in rhythm, and keep the defense honest with his shooting. If he does everything else averagely (defend, rebound, pick-up steals) then it's gravy.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

:oldlol: I was surprised it took the Bulls fans so long to come into this thread

[Tenchi Ryu]

:oldlol: I was surprised it took the Bulls fans so long to come into this thread
Too busy face palming since the first page to comment. Hell, still am. Short term memory like a bitch in here.

[CardiacKemba]

Too busy face palming since the first page to comment. Hell, still am. Short term memory like a bitch in here.

Hard to accept Rose is not a top 2 PG atm? I have Rose at 4/5 this season. Dude hasn't played enough games, and to be honest, despite what public opinion 'polls' say, he hasn't been that impressive when he has. Paul, Rondo, Parker, Westbrook and probably Nash have all been better this year. Hard to argue otherwise unless you're a Bulls fan.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's hard to seperate all of these PGs are individual players.

What is easy to understand is that the Celtics, Clippers, and Suns would be awful lottery teams without their respective point guards. The Bulls, Thunder, and Spurs would still make the playoffs.
Rondo is the best player but Pierce, KG and Allen would keep the Cs in contention for the 8th spot. The season first turned around due to Pierce finally getting healthy while Rondo was out, and then the team took off with the two playing well together while KG has become one of the EC's best centers. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254394) He'd be an All-Star if he had been at center the whole season.

[Derka]

This season...its CP3 and Rondo all the way. Everyone else is playing to match what they're doing.

Rose isn't getting it from me because he's having a tough year with the injuries and his team is doing a pretty good job without him in the lineup on those nights. Bulls are just front-to-back a really, really good team.

[ILLsmak]

When you take guys like Deron or CP or Rondo... it's really hard to say one is better. They are all great and if one is better it's such a tiny gap.

I'm taking Deron cuz he's an Illini and I feel he's more of a matchup nightmare than the other two.

Then you have Rose who is just a star. It's true he isn't a PG because I couldn't see him playing on a team of great scorers and deferring to them. But he plays the PG spot and gets his team wins.

Westbrook is a beast but I don't put him in the same category as those guys. He's just not smart enough. He is the only player that can be mentioned as a top PG who would shoot you out of the game. And he's also the only player mentioned who has a player on his team that is the clear-cut better talent.

You guys can say Rondo is the best player on the Cs, but I think it's Pierce.

-Smak

[Mr. Jabbar]

Too busy face palming since the first page to comment. Hell, still am. Short term memory like a bitch in here.

There is no short term memory. Bulls fans in denial I see. CP3 has been the best pg in the league since 4-5 years ago pal. And you can give me Rondo over Rose every day of the week and twice on sundays if I'm building my team on a pg.

Don't give me the bulls record or last year reg. season MVP as arguments. I watch em play, I know whos the better pg.

[Go Getter]

When you take guys like Deron or CP or Rondo... it's really hard to say one is better. They are all great and if one is better it's such a tiny gap.

I'm taking Deron cuz he's an Illini and I feel he's more of a matchup nightmare than the other two.

Then you have Rose who is just a star. It's true he isn't a PG because I couldn't see him playing on a team of great scorers and deferring to them. But he plays the PG spot and gets his team wins.

Westbrook is a beast but I don't put him in the same category as those guys. He's just not smart enough. He is the only player that can be mentioned as a top PG who would shoot you out of the game. And he's also the only player mentioned who has a player on his team that is the clear-cut better talent.

You guys can say Rondo is the best player on the Cs, but I think it's Pierce.

-Smak
He plays PG all game and you must have missed the WC, Memphis, and Simeon HS.:biggums:

[Tenchi Ryu]

There is no short term memory. Bulls fans in denial I see. CP3 has been the best pg in the league since 4-5 years ago pal. And you can give me Rondo over Rose every day of the week and twice on sundays if I'm building my team on a pg.

Don't give me the bulls record or last year reg. season MVP as arguments. I watch em play, I know whos the better pg.
Well you not with the majority
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pewiNdLHs

When Penny Hardaway is agreeing with me, it makes me feel confident in my opinion of Rose at #1, let alone the fans themselves who've voted Rose at 1.

[D-Wade316]

Well you not with the majority
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pewiNdLHs

When Penny Hardaway is agreeing with me, it makes me feel confident in my opinion of Rose at #1, let alone the fans themselves who've voted Rose at 1.
You are fast becoming AlphaWolf by using ESPN and popular opinion to back your opinion. :lol :biggums:

[Tenchi Ryu]

You are fast becoming AlphaWolf by using ESPN and popular opinion to back your opinion. :lol :biggums:
Popular opinion is what's important in this argument. When statements are made like "Who actually thinks Rose is the best PG?", that's EXACTLY where popular opinion comes into play.

This injury is going to some of yall's head, for fukk sake, we were JUST debating Rose vs CP3 a month ago, and now folks want to act like he's not even in the discussion. Why penalize someone cause they were injured, which is exactly what folks are doing.

[Soultrane]

Popular opinion is what's important in this argument. When statements are made like "Who actually thinks Rose is the best PG?", that's EXACTLY where popular opinion comes into play.

This injury is going to some of yall's head, for fukk sake, we were JUST debating Rose vs CP3 a month ago, and now folks want to act like he's not even in the discussion. Why penalize someone cause they were injured, which is exactly what folks are doing.

Wasn't that exactly what people were doing two years ago when Paul was injured?

[Tenchi Ryu]

Wasn't that exactly what people were doing two years ago when Paul was injured?
Pretty much, but with CP3, many noticed a significant change in his play, which is why they criticized him.

[ralph_i_el]

rondo can't shoot

[b0bab0i]

Popular opinion is what's important in this argument. When statements are made like "Who actually thinks Rose is the best PG?", that's EXACTLY where popular opinion comes into play.

This injury is going to some of yall's head, for fukk sake, we were JUST debating Rose vs CP3 a month ago, and now folks want to act like he's not even in the discussion. Why penalize someone cause they were injured, which is exactly what folks are doing.

Greg Oden would be the top center in today's league if he wasnt injured. You always have to take injuries into consideration.

[scm5]

They are the best 2 traditional PG's in the game. Nash and Deron come a close 3rd. Deron is actually transitioning into more of a scoring PG this season because of the level of talent in NJ (not much).

If you want a floor general leading your team, Rondo and Rose are the two best ones to do it.

[scm5]

Greg Oden would be the top center in today's league if he wasnt injured. You always have to take injuries into consideration.

I don't know about THE top center. I do think he would be giving Bynum a run as the 2nd best C. Better than Dwight is hard because Dwight is more mobile than Oden and they both don't have very polished offensive games. I would give the benefit of the doubt to Dwight just because he's been so consistent year after year.

[Celtic_Pride]

Pretty much, but with CP3, many noticed a significant change in his play, which is why they criticized him.

Could you name 1 aspect of the game where Rose is better than CP3? :biggums:

Scoring
Court vision
Dishing
Defense
IQ
Making teammates better
Controlling the tempo

[nathanjizzle]

Could you name 1 aspect of the game where Rose is better than CP3? :biggums:

Scoring
Court vision
Dishing
Defense
IQ
Making teammates better
Controlling the tempo
taking over games

real. not made up.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Could you name 1 aspect of the game where Rose is better than CP3? :biggums:

Scoring
Court vision
Dishing
Defense
IQ
Making teammates better
Controlling the tempo

Scoring=Rose
Court vision=CP3
Dishing=CP3
Defense=Rose, don't care for CP3s gambles on steals.
IQ=CP3
Making teammates better=Tie
Controlling the tempo=Rose, he's not called the most dominant PG in the league for nothing

[Riley Martin]

Could you name 1 aspect of the game where Rose is better than CP3? :biggums:

Scoring - Rose
Court vision - CP3
Dishing - CP3
Defense - Close with CP3's steals. I'll say Rose.
IQ - CP3
Making teammates better - CP3
Controlling the tempo - CP3

[Bigsmoke]

Yup. Their passes and ability to command every aspect of a game is simply incredible to watch. I never get that feeling with Rose and Westbrook. With those two guys it's like great you can score.... but they don't have the same control of games/tempo. Another thing I noticed is Rondo and CP3 are both very vocal floor generals while I never seen Westbrook+Rose telling teammates what to do or where to be etc.

That's something that is VITAL to a PG and should not be ignored. Watch all the top PG's in NBA history like Magic, Stockton, Zeke, Nash, Kidd, Payton etc. You'll see them constantly talking and commanding the floor. NEVER see that with Rose or Westbrook. You can always hear CP3 yelling and telling teammates what he sees. Telling teammates where to go, where to set a screen etc.

It cracks me up because I'll always hear his higher pitched voice yelling "Hey guys!" "Fellas!" "Come here!!" etc.

Rose take action in many occasions actually.

Rose averaged 30 points and 10 assists in that Hawks series. :confusedshrug:

hell. Rose right now is averaging 8 assists a game and around 8 last year. Gary Payton assists numbers were very identical to rose' despite playing with Shawn Kemp who's an alley oop machine

[Tenchi Ryu]

What people need to understand is that a PGs job is to be successful in being captain of the team. There are different ways to do that nowadays, and this thing of "True PG being the real PG" is absolute bullshit.

A PGs job is the command the floor, control the tempo at his pace, and make appropriate changes if the game warrants. There are different ways to get this done. CP3 gives you flashy passes that aren't expected, Rose uses himself as a decoy to setup his teammates.

If the PG is doing his job as leader, and the tactics convert into wins, THATS what decides the value of a PG, not how well they can pass or how well they can score.

[Pushxx]

Rondo is the best player but Pierce, KG and Allen would keep the Cs in contention for the 8th spot. The season first turned around due to Pierce finally getting healthy while Rondo was out, and then the team took off with the two playing well together while KG has become one of the EC's best centers. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254394) He'd be an All-Star if he had been at center the whole season.

Celtics are a disaster with Rondo off the floor for extended periods of time.

More importantly, almost all of Bass and KG's points come off assists, usually from Rondo. Rondo has been tearing defenses apart with his drive-and-dish.

Without Rondo, Celtics are a 45% win team or worse if they tank for a better pick.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Rose averaged 30 points and 10 assists in that Hawks series. :confusedshrug:

hell. Rose right now is averaging 8 assists a game and around 8 last year. Gary Payton assists numbers were very identical to rose' despite playing with Shawn Kemp who's an alley oop machine
CF86 was posting a lot of bullshit last night. Its like everything he mentions of Rose, he bases it off of last years ECF or last weeks game against the knicks, NEITHER of which displayed Rose at his best.

Yet won't even use the game where we went against his OWN TEAM this year, which was one of Rose's BEST games of his career.

Rose vs Clippers Dec 30, 2011
29 Pts, 8 Reb, 16 Ast, 1 Stl

[Bigsmoke]

i dont understand, last year you were claiming how griffin is going to take the clippers to the promise land. now your saying without cp3 the clippers would fall apart.:roll:

to be fair, the Clippers last year had Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman. Two very productive offensive players.

The Clippers traded their 2nd and 3rd best player for CP3 and got MUCH better.

[Dengness9]

In a perfect world, for this threads sake, I wish the Clippers and Bulls would play in the finals so Derrick Rose could absolutely shit on CP3 like he does almost every time they ever play each other.


Cp3 is one of the best 2 PG's this but because Rose sat out so many games with injury.

[Bigsmoke]

CF86 was posting a lot of bullshit last night. Its like everything he mentions of Rose, he bases it off of last years ECF or last weeks game against the knicks, NEITHER of which displayed Rose at his best.

Yet won't even use the game where we went against his OWN TEAM this year, which was one of Rose's BEST games of his career.

Rose vs Clippers Dec 30, 2011
29 Pts, 8 Reb, 16 Ast, 1 Stl


godly shit right there. :bowdown:

[Bigsmoke]

There is no short term memory. Bulls fans in denial I see. CP3 has been the best pg in the league since 4-5 years ago pal. And you can give me Rondo over Rose every day of the week and twice on sundays if I'm building my team on a pg.

Don't give me the bulls record or last year reg. season MVP as arguments. I watch em play, I know whos the better pg.

Rondo? :biggums:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Rondo? :biggums:

Yes, I think hes a better floor general. Doesn't rely so much on his fg% ona given night to be impactful. Besides he rebounds like no other pg in the league and is a monster defender.

[bagelred]

The best 2 AFTER Jeremy Lin, right?

[Bigsmoke]

Yes, I think hes a better floor general. Doesn't rely so much on his fg% ona given night to be impactful. Besides he rebounds like no other pg in the league and is a monster defender.

Rondo is a good defender and thats where his praise on the defense end should stop. I dont live in Boston or have league pass to watch all of his games but i know the Rose scores damn near effortless on this "monster defender" you called Rajon Rondo.

The Celtics are still horrible at rebounding the ball so why his rebounding numbers even count? Someone has to get them.

The Celtics would be a better team with Rose healthy instead of Rondo. FACT!


The best 2 AFTER Jeremy Lin, right?

the NBA has been more enjoyable after his injury.

[ballup]

Rondo is a good defender and thats where his praise on the defense end should stop. I dont live in Boston or have league pass to watch all of his games but i know the Rose scores damn near effortless on this "monster defender" you called Rajon Rondo.

The Celtics are still horrible at rebounding the ball so why his rebounding numbers even count? Someone has to get them.

The Celtics would be a better team with Rose healthy instead of Rondo. FACT!



the NBA has been more enjoyable after his injury.
Effortless?:rolleyes: Rondo will make Rose work for his points. Does Rose now have some kind of ability to phase through defenders now?

Rondo's rebounding numbers count because it shows not only that he one of the best rebounding guards, he does whatever he team needs him to do to win games. That right there is a quality characteristic you'd want from your star player.

The Celtics would be better with Rose because Rose can carry them when they get sloppy, but there is no way they'd get as many good looks as they do with Rondo. That's a fact.

[Killbot]

The Celtics are still horrible at rebounding the ball so why his rebounding numbers even count? Someone has to get them.

The Celtics would be a better team with Rose healthy instead of Rondo. FACT!
.

Rondo is a feisty player. He works for the rebounds, outhustling his man and some of the bigs. Sure, Celtics are the worst rebounding team, but that should not discredit Rondo's rebounding numbers. If Rondo has maybe like 3-4 total rebounds, you could say that, but when he has games of >6, that usually is a good indicator of Rajon's hustle.

Not this year. Rose has been riddled with injuries. Celtics would suffer more this season. Last season is debatable.

[The_Yearning]

In a perfect world, for this threads sake, I wish the Clippers and Bulls would play in the finals so Derrick Rose could absolutely shit on CP3 like he does almost every time they ever play each other.


Cp3 is one of the best 2 PG's this but because Rose sat out so many games with injury.

Rose would have choked on more free throws if he didn't get injured.

[BlackVVaves]

CF86 was posting a lot of bullshit last night. Its like everything he mentions of Rose, he bases it off of last years ECF or last weeks game against the knicks, NEITHER of which displayed Rose at his best.

Yet won't even use the game where we went against his OWN TEAM this year, which was one of Rose's BEST games of his career.

Rose vs Clippers Dec 30, 2011
29 Pts, 8 Reb, 16 Ast, 1 Stl

QFT.

[Clippersfan86]

QFT.

Not quite frankly true. It's stupid to use Chris Paul's second game with these teammates as the sample. He literally didn't even have a SINGLE practice with this team. Got slaughtered that first week by Spurs+Bulls. Chris Paul got used to his teammates after about a month and his averages skyrocketed.

I'm not saying Rose wouldn't outplay him but 1 H2H game or even multiple is the absolute most stupid way to compare a players season. CP3>Rose this year and quite frankly with the time Rose has missed and Bulls not struggling without him.. he doesn't even really belong in the top 3 PG discussion.

[chazzy]

the NBA has been more enjoyable after his injury.
:wtf:

[BlackVVaves]

Not quite frankly true. It's stupid to use Chris Paul's second game with these teammates as the sample. He literally didn't even have a SINGLE practice with this team. Got slaughtered that first week by Spurs+Bulls. Chris Paul got used to his teammates after about a month and his averages skyrocketed.

I'm not saying Rose wouldn't outplay him but 1 H2H game or even multiple is the absolute most stupid way to compare a players season. CP3>Rose this year and quite frankly with the time Rose has missed and Bulls not struggling without him.. he doesn't even really belong in the top 3 PG discussion.

QFT because there are two ways to compare players. To the rest of the league, and to another particular player.

QFT because Rose has outplayed CP3 a pretty considerate amount in their match ups (according to all accounts I've read and heard, I have only watched a small amount of their H2Hs).

So it's safe to say that player against player, Rose > CP3. Thusfar.

But for the scope of the season, CP3 has been the better point guard this year.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo might be the best point guard, but Rose is the POINT GOD.

CP3 is a overrated lil bltch.

[Clippersfan86]

QFT because there are two ways to compare players. To the rest of the league, and to another particular player.

QFT because Rose has outplayed CP3 a pretty considerate amount in their match ups (according to all accounts I've read and heard, I have only watched a small amount of their H2Hs).

So it's safe to say that player against player, Rose > CP3. Thusfar.

But for the scope of the season, CP3 has been the better point guard this year.

Nobody here said CP3>Rose in H2H though. This is a thread about the best PG's this season. If you're using H2H as part of a comparison it should be a small portion of it considering there are 30 teams in the NBA and that's only 1 accounted for. As I said... Rose doesn't have a good case to be in discussion with CP3 THIS SEASON as a better PG and sure as hell hasn't been more clutch this year, both of which Tenchi the guy you defended was claiming.

I didn't say Rose doesn't have number 1 PG talent or wasn't the best PG last year. I'm talking about this year specifically... he's not in the discussion right now. Westbrook, Parker, CP3, Rondo and Nash are the most impactful this year and have elite stats AND haven't missed 40 percent of the season.

[BlackVVaves]

Nobody here said CP3>Rose in H2H though. This is a thread about the best PG's this season. If you're using H2H as part of a comparison it should be a small portion of it considering there are 30 teams in the NBA and that's only 1 accounted for. As I said... Rose doesn't have a good case to be in discussion with CP3 THIS SEASON as a better PG and sure as hell hasn't been more clutch this year, both of which Tenchi the guy you defended was claiming.

I didn't say Rose doesn't have number 1 PG talent or wasn't the best PG last year. I'm talking about this year specifically... he's not in the discussion right now. Westbrook, Parker, CP3, Rondo and Nash are the most impactful this year and have elite stats AND haven't missed 40 percent of the season.

Meh, sounds like we're saying the same thing then. Rose outplays CP3 head on, CP3 has been the better point guard this season.

Out of curiosity, how do their "clutch stats" stack up against each other?

[Yung D-Will]

:roll:

[Dengness9]

Not quite frankly true. It's stupid to use Chris Paul's second game with these teammates as the sample. He literally didn't even have a SINGLE practice with this team. Got slaughtered that first week by Spurs+Bulls. Chris Paul got used to his teammates after about a month and his averages skyrocketed.

I'm not saying Rose wouldn't outplay him but 1 H2H game or even multiple is the absolute most stupid way to compare a players season. CP3>Rose this year and quite frankly with the time Rose has missed and Bulls not struggling without him.. he doesn't even really belong in the top 3 PG discussion.


Rose doesn't belong there because of INJURY, not his ability. And you do understand that DERRICK ROSE HAS NEVER LOST AN NBA GAME TO CHRIS PAUL EVER RIGHT?

No matter the circumstances, Rose beats a CP3 team every time for 3 almost 4 years now.

[Celtics4ever]

Nobody here said CP3>Rose in H2H though. This is a thread about the best PG's this season. If you're using H2H as part of a comparison it should be a small portion of it considering there are 30 teams in the NBA and that's only 1 accounted for. As I said... Rose doesn't have a good case to be in discussion with CP3 THIS SEASON as a better PG and sure as hell hasn't been more clutch this year, both of which Tenchi the guy you defended was claiming.

I didn't say Rose doesn't have number 1 PG talent or wasn't the best PG last year. I'm talking about this year specifically... he's not in the discussion right now. Westbrook, Parker, CP3, Rondo and Nash are the most impactful this year and have elite stats AND haven't missed 40 percent of the season.

Rose
DWill
Rondo
Westbrook
CP360

[PP34Deuce]

Rose healthy is the fastest penetrator in the league since iverson and francis.

Rondo and Paul struggling with him doesn't mean he's so much better than them.

I wil say one thing Rose has thats absolutely terrifying is monster defense potential. When he is zoned in he can pick up ANY PG and some SG's in the league. I would say defensively he could be better than Rondo.

Rose has 2-3 more years being younger than them, but if he returns to health... You have a guy who can score you 27-28ppg control the game decently with 8 assists and potential defensive stopper.

His shooting and percentages hold him back for me to call him another level.

I still think Chris Paul is the best PG in the league because he can score you 25 ppg if u need it, but can also give you 10-12 assists with adequate defense and leadership.

Paul
Rose based on health
Rondo and Williams are tied.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Rose healthy is the fastest penetrator in the league since iverson and francis.

Rondo and Paul struggling with him doesn't mean he's so much better than them.

I wil say one thing Rose has thats absolutely terrifying is monster defense potential. When he is zoned in he can pick up ANY PG and some SG's in the league. I would say defensively he could be better than Rondo.

Rose has 2-3 more years being younger than them, but if he returns to health... You have a guy who can score you 27-28ppg control the game decently with 8 assists and potential defensive stopper.

His shooting and percentages hold him back for me to call him another level.

I still think Chris Paul is the best PG in the league because he can score you 25 ppg if u need it, but can also give you 10-12 assists with adequate defense and leadership.

Paul
Rose based on health
Rondo and Williams are tied.

you might want to rephrase that :yaohappy:

[yobore]

QFT because there are two ways to compare players. To the rest of the league, and to another particular player.

QFT because Rose has outplayed CP3 a pretty considerate amount in their match ups (according to all accounts I've read and heard, I have only watched a small amount of their H2Hs).

So it's safe to say that player against player, Rose > CP3. Thusfar.

But for the scope of the season, CP3 has been the better point guard this year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=paulch01&p2=rosede01

While the Bulls have won all the games (somewhat flukishly if you look the game where Paul got his big injury, the game should have been sealed), Rose only outplayed Paul in their 2 most recent matchups.

The first was in a stretch of games where Paul first tried taking off the brace and was owned by everyone he faced, the second on a new team shortly after the trade and no offseason, Hardly convincing of head to head ownership.

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=paulch01&p2=rosede01

While the Bulls have won all the games (somewhat flukishly if you look the game where Paul got his big injury, the game should have been sealed), Rose only outplayed Paul in their 2 most recent matchups.
The first was in a stretch of games where Paul first tried taking off the brace and was owned by everyone he faced, the second on a new team shortly after the trade and no offseason, Hardly convincing of head to head ownership.

:applause:

[Tenchi Ryu]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=paulch01&p2=rosede01

While the Bulls have won all the games (somewhat flukishly if you look the game where Paul got his big injury, the game should have been sealed), Rose only outplayed Paul in their 2 most recent matchups.


That's the point, he's getting better. It makes perfect sense his best games against him are the most recent ones.

[notatop29pg]

Ive been a huge CP3 fan since day one, but im not gonna knock Rose (this time). the guy is an athletic beast. But i do wonder where he would be without that athleticism. With CP3, i remember before his knee injury... the guy was lightning, and got to the hoop and scored whenever he wanted. The only difference was he didnt dunk like Rose. The fact that he is performing at his current level without 30-40% of the quickness he once had is incredible. Where he once used blazing quickness to get around his man and score, he know just slows it up and uses his bag ass and teammates to create space and still scores just as easily.

Ive said it before and i'll say it again IMO Paul has learnt that no matter how hard he tries... he needs those other 4 blokes around him, so what all the haters and whingers see as passivity, i see as CP3 trying to get his team to carry some slack so they are prepared come playoffs.

I'm hoping Rose sees some of the success the bulls are having without him, and finds the happy medium between carrying his side and utilizing his entire team. If that happens... God help the other teams.

But at the moment i see Paul as Braines>Brawn and Rose as Brawn>Brains combine them and youve got the best pg ever.

As for Rondo... i dont think he's there yet, but he is doing exactly what his team wants night in and night out.

For mine -

Paul - (slimmest of margins over Rose)

Rose - (interested to see where the injuries take him, if you think all that explosive power isnt stressful and doesnt contribute to soft tissue injuries...)

Williams - Think he is regretting his actions in Utah, is seriously unmotivated but is the closest around to being a combination of Paul and Rose.

Rondo/Westbrook - tough to seperate these two, both totally different players but both have glaring weaknesses stopping them from moving up the list.

[Celtic_Pride]

I still think Chris Paul is the best PG in the league because he can score you 25 ppg if u need it, but can also give you 10-12 assists with adequate defense and leadership.


Pretty much this!

I can only laugh at those who say Rose is a better scorer. Chris Paul is the most versatile scorer in the league right now. Due to his handles, he can score whenever/however he wants to.

In 2-3 years time, Rose might turn out to be the best PG but right now it's Chris Paul all day

[Tenchi Ryu]

Pretty much this!

I can only laugh at those who say Rose is a better scorer. Chris Paul is the most versatile scorer in the league right now. Due to his handles, he can score whenever/however he wants to.

CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.

[Clippersfan86]

Pretty much this!

I can only laugh at those who say Rose is a better scorer. Chris Paul is the most versatile scorer in the league right now. Due to his handles, he can score whenever/however he wants to.

In 2-3 years time, Rose might turn out to be the best PG but right now it's Chris Paul all day

Yup. Only reason Rose scores more is twice the free throw attempts AND more shot attempts. CP3 is clearly the most versatile scorer. Quite possibly best midrange jumper in game this year, great from deep, great at getting into the paint and scoring. NBA players voted him as being the best ballhandler in the NBA and having the best floater/teardrop in the league.

[Clippersfan86]

CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.

You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.

[Tenchi Ryu]

You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.
Yes he does, and its because of it we've had success. Teams tried to learn from Miami last year, and think the stop Rose, stop the Bulls trick would work this year. Unfortunately for other teams this year, as we are all witnessing, Rose's support just happened to have learned to create offense, so he's used this to his advantage.

Rose doesn't really shoot jumpers like CP3 does, and its the reason his FG% is lower. CP3 goes for the Iso and jumper. Rose drives the lane looking for contact. He misses a significant margin of his shots because he's so heavily guarded.

Take for example the 76ers. When playing Rose, guess who they stick on him? Iggy AND Jrue, at the half-court line.

[Clippersfan86]

Yes he does, and its because of it we've had success. Teams tried to learn from Miami last year, and think the stop Rose, stop the Bulls trick would work this year. Unfortunately fpr other teams this year, as we are all witnessing, Rose's support just happened to have learned to create offense, so he's used this to his advantage.

Rose doesn't really shoot jumpers like CP3 does, and its the reason his FG% is lower. CP3 goes for the Iso and jumper. Rose drives the lane looking for contact. He misses a significant margin of his shots because he's so heavily guarded.

Take for example the 76ers. When playing Rose, guess who they stick on him? Iggy AND Jrue, at the half-court line.

If true that's actually not good. Teams can't afford to double CP3 much because they know 10 out of 10 times he will find the right teammate or make the right play. If they are trapping Rose right at halfcourt.. probably means they know he's turnover prone and unlikely to make right decision. If Rose is going to blow by you the best defense is obviously single coverage and give him space, not trap at halfcourt. He's fast enough to get the ball back at any time so denying him the ball won't work.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's easy; CP3 and Rose.

[chips93]

im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/04/10/leaders-of-nbas-elusive-hockey-assist/

there wasnt enough data on deron williams and chris paul so they werent included


You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.

:wtf:

teams trap rose on the pick and roll on a very regular basis

noah and boozer are both great at flashing to the hi post and making the quick slip pass to the man at the rim, to punish this though.

rose gets a lot more attention than any of the other point guards in the league

[notatop29pg]

Rose gets double teamed because the defense knows that 9 times out of 10 he is still going to try to score.

Paul doesnt get doubled because teams know 9 times out of 10 he will find the open man.

Would Rose have passed the ball to Paxon?
Would Paul?

[Tenchi Ryu]

If true that's actually not good.
Teams can't afford to double CP3 much because they know 10 out of 10 times he will find the right teammate or make the right play. If they are trapping Rose right at halfcourt.. probably means they know he's turnover prone and unlikely to make right decision. If Rose is going to blow by you the best defense is obviously single coverage and give him space, not trap at halfcourt. He's fast enough to get the ball back at any time so denying him the ball won't work.
The can't afford to double CP3 because they are too busy keeping Griffin in their Radar, and they know damn well that double teaming CP3 will be lob city. Bulls don't play like that, its all about ball movement, which is the system Rose runs, that Thibs makes him run. He sets up multiple people, and the ball basically becomes a hot potato, moving it around constantly. Clippers don't have good passers like Chicago, and they can't afford to use effective ball movement.

Teams try to avoid this ball movement, and cut it off at the source, usually when Rose inbounds. (Like how Shumpert and JR was playing FULLCOURT D on Rose in the 4th quarter). And they failed everytime cause All Rose had to do was dish it to another person capable of facilitating while gets back up court.

And Rose is not turnover prone at all....Teams will chance CP3 cause they know majority of the time, he's going for the jumper, and with that, its always a chance he misses. Its why he was able to catch Thunder off guard last night with that drive to the hoop. NONE of them were expecting that.

[Duncan21formvp]

CP3 has been in the league 7 years and been out of round 1 once and won only one series in his career.

[Clippersfan86]

im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/04/10/leaders-of-nbas-elusive-hockey-assist/

there wasnt enough data on deron williams and chris paul so they werent included



:wtf:

teams trap rose on the pick and roll on a very regular basis

noah and boozer are both great at flashing to the hi post and making the quick slip pass to the man at the rim, to punish this though.

rose gets a lot more attention than any of the other point guards in the league

Teams trap CP3 a ton on PNR and force the ball out of his hands too. Just saying... even if Rose gets the most attention it's not like CP3 gets to go 1 on 1 either. The only time he does is on switches and late in shotclock when he calls for ISO which Rose does plenty as well.

[Droid101]

CP3 has been in the league 7 years and been out of round 1 once and won only one series in his career.
Haters, and what they tend to do.

See above post.

[Celtics4ever]

CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.

Very good post. All the dumb people dont realize this. If CP3 was double teamed like Rose, the dude would be shut down on every play.

No one draws as much defensive attention as DRose other than Dwight Howard

[Tenchi Ryu]

im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/04/10/leaders-of-nbas-elusive-hockey-assist/


To be fair though, its one of the reasons why stats in general can be flawed, as something like this would never be recorded, yet can be a major factor to team success.

[chips93]

To be fair though, its one of the reasons why stats in general can be flawed, as something like this would never be recorded, yet can be a major factor to team success.


i dont know if you read it or not, but it had some convincing reasons why certain players do well and others dont.

[Mr. Jabbar]

yeah its time we all agree.

[Tenchi Ryu]

yeah its time we all agree.
HELL YEA

CP3 and ROSE

Rose couldn't shoot for shit, and STILL got 8 assists
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

And DAT BENCH MOB, DAT HOT SAWCE, DAT WATSON
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Mr. Jabbar]

HELL YEA

CP3 and ROSE

Rose couldn't shoot for shit, and STILL got 8 assists
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

And DAT BENCH MOB, DAT HOT SAWCE, DAT WATSON
:bowdown: :bowdown:

:oldlol:

now seriously

thibs mopped the floor with spoelstra today.

[Tenchi Ryu]

:oldlol:

now seriously

thibs mopped the floor with spoelstra today.
That helps too
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TeamLAC]

HELL YEA

CP3 and ROSE

Rose couldn't shoot for shit, and STILL got 8 assists
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

And DAT BENCH MOB, DAT HOT SAWCE, DAT WATSON
:bowdown: :bowdown:
/Thread

[sirkeelma]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/sirkee/rose-1.jpg

[Tenchi Ryu]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/sirkee/rose-1.jpg
He was clearly cheerful and excited...that picture just doesn't like
:oldlol: :oldlol: :rockon: :rockon:

[dyna]

Top PG:
1) Rose
2) CP3
3) Deron
4) Rondo
5) Nash
6) Westbrook
7) Parker


Best PG This Season:
1) CP3
2) Rondo
3) Westbrook
4) Rose
5) Nash
6) Parker
7) Deron

[roffie]

Top PG:
1) Rose
2) CP3
3) Deron
4) Rondo
5) Nash
6) Westbrook
7) Parker


Best PG This Season:
1) CP3
2) Rondo
3) Westbrook
4) Parker
5) Rose
6) Nash
7) Deron

fixed.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Top PG:
1) Rose
2) CP3
3) Deron
4) Rondo
5) Nash
6) Westbrook
7) Parker


Best PG This Season:
1) CP3
2) Rondo
3) Westbrook
4) Rose
5) Nash
6) Parker
7) Deron

If anything CP3 is a better pg than Rose every year BUT last season.

[LiLharvard]

1.Rondo (playing like John Stockton)
1. Cp3 (he can have some off nights but he is so clutch and reliable with ability to facilitate)
2. There is no 2 it's either rondo or cp3
3.Nash (look at his team)

4. Westbrook
5. Rose

Dwill hasn't been healthy enough and his team is just terrible .. When he has been he's been my number 3. 57pt game comes to mind and his cold night against gs where he scored like 12 in the 4th and dished out 15asst

[chairman]

1.Rondo (playing like John Stockton)
1. Cp3 (he can have some off nights but he is so clutch and reliable with ability to facilitate)
2. There is no 2 it's either rondo or cp3
3.Nash (look at his team)

4. Westbrook
5. Rose

Dwill hasn't been healthy enough and his team is just terrible .. When he has been he's been my number 3. 57pt game comes to mind and his cold night against gs where he scored like 12 in the 4th and dished out 15asst
Why are you still posting dumbass? We had a bet now be gone for 3 months. Someone please tell me how to get this fool banned? Pm Jeff?