Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

[Grey Dawn]

When Griffin does his 'jump from far' wind-up dunks, he almost always sends his off arm forearm out in a protective swiping motion.

This should easily be called as a clear out offensive foul every time, but because of the NBA-star-make-money corruption stuff, the refs never call it.

Best example yet is the dunk on Gasol (and I hate Lakers so trust me this is objective), he sends a forearm shudder straight into Gasol's neck, and then also stares him down after (again, should be an automatic Tech).

Furthermore to the offensive foul and T, if that forearm to head would be considered to be purposeful, it should be an automatic suspension as well for purposeful contact to the head.

I don't dislike Griffin, I dislike the NBA's ridiculous favoring and protecting of its main money-makers, and Griffin needs to realize he's cheating to get those dunks in and to town down the stupid cockeyness, you had to clear out to get almost all those dunks, moron.

[Derrick]

When Griffin does his 'jump from far' wind-up dunks, he almost always sends his off arm forearm out in a protective swiping motion.

This should easily be called as a clear out offensive foul every time, but because of the NBA-star-make-money corruption stuff, the refs never call it.

Best example yet is the dunk on Gasol (and I hate Lakers so trust me this is objective), he sends a forearm shudder straight into Gasol's neck, and then also stares him down after (again, should be an automatic Tech).

Furthermore to the offensive foul and T, if that forearm to head would be considered to be purposeful, it should be an automatic suspension as well for purposeful contact to the head.

I don't dislike Griffin, I dislike the NBA's ridiculous favoring and protecting of its main money-makers, and Griffin needs to realize he's cheating to get those dunks in and to town down the stupid cockeyness, you had to clear out to get almost all those dunks, moron.
inb4 clippersfan

[Batz]

I agree on the Gasol dunk. But just out of the sake of this thread, which other dunks vary into an offensive foul or technical situation?

[Grey Dawn]

I agree on the Gasol dunk. But just out of the sake of this thread, which other dunks vary into an offensive foul or technical situation?

Generally his 'not dunk' dunks where he throws the ball in, he uses his off arm in all of those to clear out/push up off the defender. While not as bad as a shot to the head, these are still offensive clear outs (you know these dunks, Mosgov, Perkins, etc etc).

[Thechosen1]

well if were going to get this petty....can the lakers give the 76ers the 2001 championship for Shaqs continuous blatant offensive fouls?

[RaininTwos]

well if were going to get this petty....can the lakers give the 76ers the 2001 championship for Shaqs continuous blatant offensive fouls?
THIS.:roll:

Shaq got bludgeoned Mutombo's face each and every game.

[DaHeezy]

well if were going to get this petty....can the lakers give the 76ers the 2001 championship for Shaqs continuous blatant offensive fouls?

I think guys got a point though. Backing down somebody compared to pushing someone off are pretty different. Griffin does intentionally push off.

[Thechosen1]

people only dissect your dunks when they get their heads yammed on....its just too easy to know the motivations behind these threads...just admit your butthurt blake dunks on everybody and keep it moving....

[DaHeezy]

people only dissect your dunks when they get their heads yammed on....its just too easy to know the motivations behind these threads...just admit your butthurt blake dunks on everybody and keep it moving....

How is the guy butthurt? He's defending blake at the same time? You're drawing conclusions, which is seemingly more butthurt.

[Thechosen1]

How is the guy butthurt? He's defending blake at the same time? You're drawing conclusions, which is seemingly more butthurt.


the point is people act like blake is the only one that commits offensive fouls on highlight dunks, or other big plays...you see no threads about anyone else....but when blake does it, everybody has to have a conference call about it? its just annoying....like Kobe Bryant said, its a legitimate dunk, lets move on....its pretty much nothing to talk about.

[bballnoob1192]

honestly i notice this too its like impossible to challenge his shot because he is leading with his off hand pushing back the defender so they cant close the gap in the air. just watch the ibaka dunk from last night

[Phong]

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg http://blake-griffin.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Blake-Clippers-Dunk.jpg

http://lakeshowlife.com/files/2012/04/6160642.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Blake-Griffin-Dunk-on-Kris-Humphries.jpg http://yfrog.com/oescslj:iphone

[DaHeezy]

the point is people act like blake is the only one that commits offensive fouls on highlight dunks, or other big plays...you see no threads about anyone else....but when blake does it, everybody has to have a conference call about it? its just annoying....like Kobe Bryant said, its a legitimate dunk, lets move on....its pretty much nothing to talk about.

But he is the best example in this case because it's the most blatantly obvious, just like you specifically pointed out Shaq for his clearouts, or how people point out Iverson for carrying. He's not saying he hates the player :confusedshrug: He, just like my other examples, happens to be the best examples.

You pointed out Shaq for clearouts, can we assume you hate Shaq and he's getting unfairly treated?

[RaininTwos]

phong:bowdown:

did he really slap congo cash in the face???? the audacity of him to do that

[bballnoob1192]

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg http://blake-griffin.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Blake-Clippers-Dunk.jpg

http://lakeshowlife.com/files/2012/04/6160642.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

thank you phong :) was too lazy to look for picts

[Thechosen1]

But he is the best example in this case because it's the most blatantly obvious, just like you specifically pointed out Shaq for his clearouts, or how people point out Iverson for carrying. He's not saying he hates the player :confusedshrug: He, just like my other examples, happens to be the best examples.

You pointed out Shaq for clearouts, can we assume you hate Shaq and he's getting unfairly treated?

its only blatantly obvious because hes embarrassing people while doing it, that's why its so highlighted....I fail to accept that its only blake griffin who "Blatantly obviously" fouls someone on a highlight dunk....its just the fact that people are salty about him for some reason...that its dissected like a science.

And then what is the point of bringing it up then? if you don't hate the player? why does it matter? if everyone does it? Its just baiting the people with agendas to continue the bias against griffins dunks. When it happens in every other highlight with different players. Just appreciate a great athletic play and move on. No need for threads about it.

Im not really even talking about OP, im talking about the media and other message boards bringing up this new phenom of the "offensive foul on posters"

[DaHeezy]

its only blatantly obvious because hes embarrassing people while doing it, that's why its so highlighted....I fail to accept that its only blake griffin who "Blatantly obviously" fouls someone on a highlight dunk....its just the fact that people are salty about him for some reason...that its dissected like a science.


But he's not saying Blake is the only one, he's using blake as the prime example of that he doesn't like how the NBA protects their cash cows. Again, you're drawing conclusoins


And then what is the point of bringing it up then? if you don't hate the player? why does it matter? if everyone does it? Its just baiting the people with agendas to continue the bias against griffins dunks. When it happens in every other highlight with different players. Just appreciate a great athletic play and move on. No need for threads about it.

I don't find OP baiting or having an agenda at all. No offense but it's guys like you who create the agenda by being over irrational in your asesment. He clearly said he has nothing against the guy, You've just selected not to acknowledge that. Not trying to pick on you though by any means though, but you're just defending Blake and not seeing his point.

[stephanieg]

Blake has golden boy status. He can do whatever he wants. LeBron approves.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll:

Blake Griffin murders his defenders and the refs allow it, and starts crying for all the "HE BREATHED ON ME!" fouls and the refs allow it.

Most pampered golden boy in NBA history

:roll:

[BGriffin's Dad]

most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes

http://i.imgur.com/rbhHI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mveic.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yXyry.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BuEjA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sipJ1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NS7Y8.jpg

[RaininTwos]

most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes

http://i.imgur.com/rbhHI.jpg


Look at that image, Kobe isnt trying to hold Emeka's blocking hand back like Griffin does so often.

[Phong]

most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes
And none of those pics shows the attacking player pushing off the blocking hand of the defender.

[SCdac]

yeah there's some noticeable differences than the above pics and Griffins. look at that Pippen-Ewing dunk, it's almost body to body and his arm isn't impeding the defender. On some of Griffin's dunks, his off arm is like the definition of breaking the rule IMO. he should be called for it

[Thechosen1]

wow.....

[Floppy]

most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes
Thanks for pointing out how blatant Griffin's offensive fouls are. :applause:

[Grey Dawn]

the point is people act like blake is the only one that commits offensive fouls on highlight dunks, or other big plays...you see no threads about anyone else....but when blake does it, everybody has to have a conference call about it? its just annoying....like Kobe Bryant said, its a legitimate dunk, lets move on....its pretty much nothing to talk about.

No butthurtness from me, in response those who say this are obviously an over-defensive homer for responding as such.

And Griffin is far and away the best example of constantly clearing out on dunks.

And my point is that the NBA reffing system purposely doesn't call any of these on Blake because he is one of their top 3 posterboys right now. So thus he deserves extra focus and scrutiny because he is purposely being overlooked for these blatant fouls. And blatant fouls aren't petty, they are blatant fouls.

[Grey Dawn]

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg http://blake-griffin.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Blake-Clippers-Dunk.jpg

http://lakeshowlife.com/files/2012/04/6160642.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Blake-Griffin-Dunk-on-Kris-Humphries.jpg http://yfrog.com/oescslj:iphone

Thank you, end thread, anyone who denies the obvious truth of my statements as blatantly shown by every one of these pics is either a homer or retarded.

[Grey Dawn]

its only blatantly obvious because hes embarrassing people while doing it, that's why its so highlighted....

Yeah but he's only acheiving those embarassing plays by using the massive clear out arm to clear his space. If he's called for offensive fouls for all those like he should be there are no embarrassments, just an extremely athletic forward with major offensive fouling problem.

[kaiteng]

Blake do tend to use his other arm to push his defender away instead of protect himself, intentionally or not. Still, Blake is still Stern's dear boy so unless it is too obvious he will never be called for any offensive fouls.

[Jameerthefear]

Blake do tend to use his other arm to push his defender away instead of protect himself, intentionally or not. Still, Blake is still Stern's dear boy so unless it is too obvious he will never be called for any offensive fouls.
But it IS obvious.

[Phong]

Blake is still Stern's dear boy so unless it is too obvious he will never be called for any offensive fouls.It is already so obvious to anybody who has eyes.

[sagr32]

Wow 3rd page and clippersfan hasn't gone in this thread and ranted.

[DropStep]

Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.

[sagr32]

Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.Like others have said it is one thing to put out your arm in anticipation of contact it is another to do that and make contact with the defenders arms on their attempt to block the shot

[Phong]

Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/2095-2/kobe-dunks-over-tim-duncan-full_getty-71796446ng017_spurs_lakers_8_20_46_pm.jpg http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/_lebron_dunk1.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3YNF4DPI1og/T4EoVUBWZTI/AAAAAAAAPOM/Dzc0OcJ7M5U/s1600/Kevin%2BDurant%2BDunks%2BOn%2BRoy%2BHibbert.jpeg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_42w5-R0zz2g/S1qXBZFGVTI/AAAAAAAAKqw/gxxoH4yxDIM/s400/Andre%2BIguodala%2BDunks%2BOn%2BErick%2BDampier%2B 3.jpg

[Rake2204]

Not Vince too!
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/dee1515/carter_over_mutombo1.jpg

To be completely up front and honest though, there is a distinct difference between one-hand dunks jumping off one foot, one-hand dunks off two-feet while square to the basket, and one-hand dunks off two-feet while perpendicular to the rack. In the first two instances, a person's off-arm will most likely not be between a player and the rim. Each of the examples posted above by Phong are dunks where the body is square to the basket. As such, off-arms will not come into play.

Meanwhile, when a player elevates and places their body perpendicular (which is a rightful and legal move), the off-arm suddenly comes in motion and forthright as a part of the natural move, as opposed to being a conscious attempt to elbow someone in the face.

To be bluntly honest, the off-arm only tends to get noticed when a defender is significantly lower and out of position than the dunker to begin with. This is what places the forearm in position to come in contact with a head rather than body (as would be the case if defender were level with dunker). Some folks tend to take the angle of "He only dunked it because he elbowed a guy in the head" when my feeling is more "He only elbowed a guy in the head because the defender was so helpless and low in comparison to begin with." For example:

MJ on Tripucka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMf3ZVM7yx4

James on Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpg94pu1AMs&feature=fvst

Baron Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZI8bweTeBA

To be completely up front and fair, I find this to be a natural and legal motion. To punish anything but those who go extremely out of their way to elbow someone on a clear out would be similar to punishing someone for lifting their knee in the air on a layup attempt and hitting an opponent (a la Tom Chambers). It's a natural motion to a specific type of takeoff.

[RaininTwos]

phong with the double dose of ether

[qrich]

I love all of these nit-picking threads, really enjoying them. Pretty soon we'll have a thread of people pissed at the way Blake wipes his ass. :oldlol:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2010/12/Blake-Griffin-dunk-1209-306x443.jpg

Man, why push off Blake!

[clayton]

A flopper and now a fouler. Dang!

[Clippersfan86]

A flopper and now a fouler. Dang!

Yup! Definitely reason to become the most hated on player in the NBA. :mad:

[Rake2204]

http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Blake-Griffin-Dunk-on-Kris-Humphries.jpg
I was thinking twice about this one because Griffin's clearly squared to the rack, but photos often offer only 1/100th of the truth, which in this case was that Griffin initially rose for a two-hand dunk before switching to one to avoid the defense. The off-hand did not have an affect, intentionally or unintentionally, on Humphries' contest and typically I don't think it'd be there on a squared up slam unless the situation occurred as it did (beginning as a two-hander): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjaqINUjIo

[CavaliersFTW]

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg

:lol :lol :lol @ Blake's hand actually GRAB the defenders arm

He'd foul at at Rucker Park before he'll ever foul out of an NBA game :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes

b-b-b-but it's natural motion!

http://stacheketball.neswblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/spuddwebb.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0221/nba_g_erving_gb1_400.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/ClydeDrexlerDunk_display_image.jpg

http://everydaydolce.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/michael-jordan-free-throw-line-dunk-.jpg

http://www.hoopsdaily.com/files/images/jrich01.jpg

http://jaydubbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/michael20jordan20dunk1.jpg

http://lsnhs.leesummit.k12.mo.us/webclasseslsn/dtwp06-07/spring07/choice/hour5/basketball_jordanl/images/mj1.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/news/1999/01/12/jordan_bythenumbers/lg_jordan45_ap_01.jpg






:lol

that shit aint natural dude, It's a cheap move that some players do to sneak a bump on the defender to improve the odds that they won't be rejected, and these new (lack of) defensive contact rules favor them getting a call over the defender. But it's always been minimal contact, just enough to fool gullible fans into thinking it's all purely incidental, (as all sneaky moves should appear at first glance).

The Golden Boy takes cheap play and obvious ref favortism to a level unseen since Shaq's elbows to the face, and shoulder dip offensive fouls. Blake is "incidentally" grabbing arms, elbowing throats, and stiff-arming the shit out of everyone on virtually every dunk like he's the NBA's greatest football player of all time. And yet when someone body checks his ass to return the favor they get ejected and the Clippers fans start crying getting their panties in a knot because it was "dangerous" and bwake gwiffin coulda got hurt! :roll:

[Rake2204]

that shit aint natural dude
I would say refer to my post with the Vince Carter picture for a deeper explanation on that front. All one-handed dunks are not created equal. I'm not sure who can dunk on this message board and who can't, but I think even if one has just goofed around on a lowered bucket, it'd probably be relatively easy to notice what happens to one's off arm when dunking perpendicular to the rack (as opposed to slamming with body directly facing the rim).

To be completely honest, you probably don't even need a rim to mimic this action. I honestly just gave it a shot while walking down the hallway. If I mimic a slam while facing the basket, off-hand won't be in front. But if I tilt my jump a la Blake and vintage breakaway alley-oop catching Vince, the off-arm's naturally arising.

Here is what that jumping like that looks like without a defender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVC_t2ufR4#t=0m16s

To further illustrate, here's an example three different types of Russell Westbrook dunks. And surely, I wouldn't expect three examples from one dunker to fully convince you. But I find these to be good indicators:

1. One hand, one foot (thus no arm lead): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq15yGbop7k#t=0m32s

2. One hand, two feet, squared (off-arm raised but not leading): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpaSeIbpLQ

3. One hand, two feet, leaning (off-arm leads by nature): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY-pw-Qs9vw#t=0m16s

To be clear, this doesn't mean Griffin has never been able to simultaneously clear someone out with an off-arm. I'm pretty sure we've all been guilty of it at some point. My stance is more or less that the arm in that specific dunk motion, is coming up no matter what. It's not a matter of a player consciously saying, "You know what? I'm going to lift up my arm and beat someone with it."

The biggest difference I've seen between Blake's dunks and many normal dunkers, is he drops a heavy hammer.

[Clippersfan86]

I would say refer to my post with the Vince Carter picture for a deeper explanation on that front. All one-handed dunks are not created equal. I'm not sure who can dunk on this message board and who can't, but I think even if one has just goofed around on a lowered bucket, it'd probably be relatively easy to notice what happens to one's arm when dunking perpendicular to the rack (as opposed to slamming with body directly facing the rim).

To be completely honest, you probably don't even need a rim to mimic this action. I honestly just gave it a shot while walking down the hallway. If I mimic a slam while facing the basket, off-hand won't be in front. But if I tilt my jump a la Blake and vintage breakaway alley-oop catching Vince, the off-arm's naturally arising.

Here is what that jumping like that looks like without a defender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVC_t2ufR4#t=0m16s

It's a balancing reaction/mechanism. You're completely right.

[BGriffin's Dad]

photos of 7 completely uncontested, wide open dunks (some in the dunk contest? lol) and 1 of MJ going up for a layup

:lol :facepalm

[BGriffin's Dad]

I would say refer to my post with the Vince Carter picture for a deeper explanation on that front. All one-handed dunks are not created equal. I'm not sure who can dunk on this message board and who can't, but I think even if one has just goofed around on a lowered bucket, it'd probably be relatively easy to notice what happens to one's off arm when dunking perpendicular to the rack (as opposed to slamming with body directly facing the rim).

To be completely honest, you probably don't even need a rim to mimic this action. I honestly just gave it a shot while walking down the hallway. If I mimic a slam while facing the basket, off-hand won't be in front. But if I tilt my jump a la Blake and vintage breakaway alley-oop catching Vince, the off-arm's naturally arising.

Here is what that jumping like that looks like without a defender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVC_t2ufR4#t=0m16s

To further illustrate, here's an example three different types of Russell Westbrook dunks. And surely, I wouldn't expect three examples from one dunker to fully convince you. But I find these to be good indicators:

1. One hand, one foot (thus no arm lead): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq15yGbop7k#t=0m32s

2. One hand, two feet, squared (off-arm raised but not leading): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpaSeIbpLQ

3. One hand, two feet, leaning (off-arm leads by nature): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY-pw-Qs9vw#t=0m16s

To be clear, this doesn't mean Griffin has never been able to simultaneously clear someone out with an off-arm. I'm pretty sure we've all been guilty of it at some point. My stance is more or less that the arm in that specific dunk motion, is coming up no matter what. It's not a matter of a player consciously saying, "You know what? I'm going to lift up my arm and beat someone with it."

The biggest difference I've seen between Blake's dunks and many normal dunkers, is he drops a heavy hammer.

exactly.. finally someone who understands the mechanics of in-game dunking :applause:

[Phong]

exactly.. finally someone who understands the mechanics of in-game dunking :applause:How does the mechanics of in-game dunking explain griffin grabbing the defender's arm?

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

http://yfrog.com/oescslj:iphone

[CavaliersFTW]

How does the mechanics of in-game dunking explain griffin grabbing the defender's arm?

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

http://yfrog.com/oescslj:iphone

:roll:

It's natural motion don't you get it? It's totally natural to grab an opponents arm and push it away from you, just like it's totally natural to flair your elbows right into the softspot of your defenders neck :lol

[Lebron23]

That's an offensive foul.

[CavaliersFTW]

lol @ long posts attempting to explain "the mechanics of dunking" to protect Blakes reputation :roll:

[ILLsmak]

That's why people should not challenge his shot but just take THEIR forearm and drive it into his chest.

-Smak

[Phong]

:roll:

It's natural motion don't you get it? It's totally natural to grab an opponents arm and push it away from you, just like it's totally natural to flair your elbows right into the softspot of your defenders neck :lolIt's funny how the mechanics of in-game dunkings change depending on the situation: sometimes it's an out streched arm straight in front of you, sometimes it's an elbow and sometimes it's a bent arm with a claw hand.

[bsyde82]

That's why people should not challenge his shot but just take THEIR forearm and drive it into his chest.

-Smak

But then Stern would slap them with a 10 game suspension because he "risked" injury to Blake. It'd be interesting if another STAR did it though. I.e. another ticket-seller. I can definitely see an increasingly bold Bynum doing this sooner than later.

[Clippersfan86]

Cavaliers you've become an annoying troll overnight bud. You're actually a lot like the CP3 butthurt crew that use every single post here trying and failing to degrade CP3. You need to find something else to contribute outside of Blake Griffin hate and Wilt Chamberlain dick sucking.

You're the offspring of Joyner and Celticsfag clearly.

[CavaliersFTW]

Cavaliers you've become an annoying troll overnight bud. You're actually a lot like the CP3 butthurt crew that use every single post here trying and failing to degrade CP3. You need to find something else to contribute outside of Blake Griffin hate and Wilt Chamberlain dick sucking.

You're the offspring of Joyner and Celticsfag clearly.

http://www.lilomaternity.com/blog/images/baby-crying.jpg

[bsyde82]

It's funny how the mechanics of in-game dunkings change depending on the situation: sometimes it's an out streched arm straight in front of you, sometimes it's an elbow and sometimes it's a bent arm with a claw hand.

someone cue up VC's dunk on Zo. I think that's the best example of a body-absorbing posterizing without resorting to using the off hand.

I miss old Vince. Seeing that failed layup the other day actually made me sad for a minute.

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.lilomaternity.com/blog/images/baby-crying.jpg

Cute baby.

[Heavincent]

That's why people should not challenge his shot but just take THEIR forearm and drive it into his chest.

-Smak

Why do you put your username at the end of your posts? It's completely pointless.

-Heavincent

[dunksby]

http://sportsinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/756-Opu67.St_.551.jpg http://blake-griffin.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Blake-Clippers-Dunk.jpg

http://lakeshowlife.com/files/2012/04/6160642.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0411/dm_120411_Dunk_of_the_night.jpg

http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Blake-Griffin-Dunk-on-Kris-Humphries.jpg http://yfrog.com/oescslj:iphone

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/2095-2/kobe-dunks-over-tim-duncan-full_getty-71796446ng017_spurs_lakers_8_20_46_pm.jpg http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/_lebron_dunk1.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3YNF4DPI1og/T4EoVUBWZTI/AAAAAAAAPOM/Dzc0OcJ7M5U/s1600/Kevin%2BDurant%2BDunks%2BOn%2BRoy%2BHibbert.jpeg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_42w5-R0zz2g/S1qXBZFGVTI/AAAAAAAAKqw/gxxoH4yxDIM/s400/Andre%2BIguodala%2BDunks%2BOn%2BErick%2BDampier%2B 3.jpg
Good work Phong.

[Rake2204]

lol @ long posts attempting to explain "the mechanics of dunking" to protect Blakes reputation :roll:
I felt as though it took a relatively extended post to go beyond the mere "No it's not/yes it is" back and forth. I attempted to explain as a lifelong fan of the dunk, not as a backer of Blake Griffin's reputation. I thought what I had to say had a lot of merit and I supported my claim with examples. I'm not saying it's my way or the highway, but I like to think what I said was worthy of consideration.

[SCdac]

a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an opponent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a position that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.

Obviously there is grey area, room for interpretation, with any foul, but the rules are pretty clear on this. There's a difference between using your arm for mid-air stability/balance and kind of colliding naturally with the defender... and using your arm to hold, push, or impede the defender for the sake of making room for your attempt. Players get called for this all time time, and rightfully so. you can't tell me that Griffin's off hand getting as high up as the defender's blocking hand is "normal".

[Rake2204]

Obviously there is grey area, room for interpretation, with any foul, but the rules are pretty clear on this. There's a difference between using your arm for mid-air stability/balance and kind of colliding naturally with the defender... and using your arm to hold, push, or impede the defender for the sake of making room for your attempt. Players get called for this all time time, and rightfully so. you can't tell me that Griffin's off hand getting as high up as the defender's blocking hand is "normal".
If I had to be truthful, I actually would in fact find the off-hand height to be normal. I think it's completely dependent upon where the defender's at in terms of height.

For instance, using the Frye/Griffin example. A snapshot (provided a page earlier) can make it seem as if Griffin has a secret motive, and it's to perform a prolonged grab on a defender rising high to make a block. However, I feel as though videos tend to provide more truth in this regard. Here's the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cLEDVvwVUA

To be clear, that video doesn't mean there wasn't a grab. But as fans of the game, I think one can recognize the incidental nature of such contact (or at least it's non-importance to the play). As in, if we were honest with ourselves, and we were officiating such a game, we're likely not going to bat an eye at what his left arm may have done to a player who was well on his way toward descent and was not challenging Griffin's dunk to begin with.

Sometimes photos can in fact tell the whole story. Oftentimes, they cannot. To be completely truthful, when I was younger, I used to look at this picture in my Inside Stuff magazine . . .

http://tzovas.net/nbastars/webb.jpg

For years, I thought it was a photo of Spud Webb performing a "cross-heels" trick dunk. I thought that was what made his slam so special. I used to "cross-heel" dunk on my lowered rim as a 3rd grader to be like Spud. I mean, as it turns out, it wasn't a cross-heel thing, it was a double pump two handed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wBI98NXEE#t=0m14s . And that's kind of my point. I see how folks were up in arms about the Gasol dunk, but to pull photo stills and draw by-the-books-that's-illegal-and-he-should-be-fined conclusions might be a little much.

[Phong]

For instance, using the Frye/Griffin example. A snapshot (provided a page earlier) can make it seem as if Griffin has a secret motive, and it's to perform a prolonged grab on a defender rising high to make a block. However, I feel as though videos tend to provide more truth in this regard. Here's the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cLEDVvwVUAUsing all 3 angles on the video, and going frame by frame, you can see Frye raising his arm for a block attempt, Griffin grabbing it and pushing it down until it's no longer raised.

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/04/13/120413015526977886.gif

[dunksby]

Damn Phong delivering fatal blow after blow to them trolls :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

Using all 3 angles on the video, and going frame by frame, you can see Frye raising his arm for a block attempt, Griffin grabbing it and pushing it down until it's no longer raised.

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/04/13/120413015526977886.gif

:applause:

thats one heavy dose of ether :lol

[taucesays]

:roll:

It's natural motion don't you get it? It's totally natural to grab an opponents arm and push it away from you, just like it's totally natural to flair your elbows right into the softspot of your defenders neck :lol

It's totally natural to travel but unfortunately it's against the rules.

[Jameerthefear]

I like how the BG fanboys had nothing to say until they had someone to bandwagon off of (Rake) :lol

[Rake2204]

Using all 3 angles on the video, and going frame by frame, you can see Frye raising his arm for a block attempt, Griffin grabbing it and pushing it down until it's no longer raised.

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/04/13/120413015526977886.gif
I feel as though my second paragraph on the Griffin/Frye exchange was overlooked.


To be clear, that video doesn't mean there wasn't a grab. But as fans of the game, I think one can recognize the incidental nature of such contact (or at least it's non-importance to the play). As in, if we were honest with ourselves, and we were officiating such a game, we're likely not going to bat an eye at what his left arm may have done to a player who was well on his way toward descent and was not challenging Griffin's dunk to begin with.
Initially, I referred to the grab as "incidental" but I realized that was likely the wrong word for the situation. "Non-important" (which I mentioned in the parentheses) is at least closer to what I was going for. Some may feel Frye would have successfully blocked the dunk had there been no off-arm contact. I am not in that camp, which is why I refer to it as being non-important (or I suppose unimportant might be the correct word).

The only point I was trying to make there was how a photo is left open to interpretation. Maybe I could look at the Frye photo and assume "Hey, you know what? I bet that was a super quick grab that occurred in the blink of an eye and is likely comparable to a number of other grabs that occur in the game of basketball". Or I could have looked at that photo and thought, "Wow, look how long he's hanging onto him, how could the officials miss that?"

Essentially, to spell the point out, I feel photos only tell part of the story. Full videos often provide perspective for what we're seeing. And as I mentioned, I acknowledge the grab, but I feel the video shows it wasn't as prolonged, devious or integral to the play as many are led to believe.

To be truthful, I feel as though we could study small portions of any given possession and discover numerous by-the-book infractions. It's not something I'm terribly interested in doing, but it's there. Still, I find the vast majority of Griffin's dunks to be of legal nature. Contrary to popular belief, I do not think the NBA has conspired to allow Blake Griffin to complete a style of dunk they'd otherwise deem illegal. This doesn't mean all his dunks are devoid of illegalities, but as a whole, I support his finishes.


I like how the BG fanboys had nothing to say until they had someone to bandwagon off of (Rake) :lol
I apologize in that regard.

[ILLsmak]

It's totally natural to travel but unfortunately it's against the rules.

good call

-Smak

[Living Being]

Using all 3 angles on the video, and going frame by frame, you can see Frye raising his arm for a block attempt, Griffin grabbing it and pushing it down until it's no longer raised.

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/04/13/120413015526977886.gif
You're my new favorite poster.

[SCdac]

Rake, I get what you're saying, and nobody wants the game grinded to a halt because of foul call after foul call... but your explanations make me wonder, at what point would you call it an offensive foul? Regardless of height differential, at what point is the offensive player using the off-arm too much in your opinion (as far as slam-dunks)? ... Assuming the defender isn't going to block the shot anyways (thus making it "unimportant") seems kind of like shaky logic. We would never know if he was going to block the shot if they don't get a fair chance to, and certainly it won't appear like they were if not given a fair chance. Griffin I believe was the league leader in dunks last season, I'd venture to say the majority of them were legit, not just criticizing to do it, but for example that dunk on Gasol the other day looked like an offensive foul (imo). Was it "natural" to drive his arm into Pau's face? seems pretty cheap to me, however nasty and intense.

http://wac.450F.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/club937.com/files/2012/04/Blake-Gasol-e1333626847504.jpg

[Rake2204]

Rake, I get what you're saying, and nobody wants the game grinded to a halt because of foul call after foul call... but your explanations make me wonder, at what point would you call it an offensive foul? Regardless of height differential, at what point is the offensive player using the off-arm too much in your opinion (as far as slam-dunks)? ... Assuming the defender isn't going to block the shot anyways (thus making it "unimportant") seems kind of like shaky logic. We would never know if he was going to block the shot if they don't get a fair chance to, and certainly it won't appear like they were if not given a fair chance. Griffin I believe was the league leader in dunks last season, I'd venture to say the majority of them were legit, not just criticizing to do it, but for example that dunk on Gasol the other day looked like an offensive foul (imo). Was it "natural" to drive his arm into Pau's face? seems pretty cheap to me, however nasty and intense.

http://wac.450F.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/club937.com/files/2012/04/Blake-Gasol-e1333626847504.jpg
To be short with it for the time being, I believe the line is crossed when someone blatantly and obviously skews from what their normal action may have looked like had they not been contested. It's obviously just my opinion, but in the Gasol dunk situation, if Griffin were all by himself, I feel his dunk would have looked the same in terms of where his arm would have been. Had Gasol had been a little to the left of Griffin, I still feel Griffin's arm would have gone to the same spot, perhaps brushing Gasol's shoulder or chest.

I know there's portions of that first paragraph to address and clarify, and I feel there's more to say on this topic but for now I must go watch a new episode of The Office circle the drain.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I really like Blake Griffin but at this point there is some pretty damning evidence about what he does with that off arm during his dunks.

A lot of these are fouls.

[Grey Dawn]

To be short with it for the time being, I believe the line is crossed when someone blatantly and obviously skews from what their normal action may have looked like had they not been contested. It's obviously just my opinion, but in the Gasol dunk situation, if Griffin were all by himself, I feel his dunk would have looked the same in terms of where his arm would have been. Had Gasol had been a little to the left of Griffin, I still feel Griffin's arm would have gone to the same spot, perhaps brushing Gasol's shoulder or chest.

I know there's portions of that first paragraph to address and clarify, and I feel there's more to say on this topic but for now I must go watch a new episode of The Office circle the drain.

Sorry dude but you're wrong. It's right there in the pic you quote.

[Grey Dawn]

It's a balancing reaction/mechanism. You're completely right.

And you're just a moron.