Miami failing to win a ring this year won't be a disappointment

[cteach111]

there are clear flaws with this team that are not the fault of Wade and Lebron. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the coaching is suspect and the roster is flawed.

There are reasons for them falling short if it comes to that. :confusedshrug:

[knightfall88]

and who decided to build this trio in the first place? yeh. check mate.

[Myth]

It won't be disappointing to me if they lose. It would be glorious.

[roffie]

C's up

[RazorBaLade]

excuse train

choo choo

put kobe on this team in place of wade and bron, use the remaining 10 mil to sign a decent player and this team wins easily

[zac]

there are clear flaws with this team that are not the fault of Wade and Lebron. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the coaching is suspect and the roster is flawed.

There are reasons for them falling short if it comes to that. :confusedshrug:
Doesn't matter, it will still be considered a failure. They promised 7+ in a row thinking 3 guys could win it all. Just because they were wrong it doesn't mean it won't be a disappointment. It will just go to prove how much of an ego those guys have and how you can't buy a championship in the NBA or take the easy way out.

[roffie]

It won't be disappointing to me if they lose. It would be glorious.

this. the thought of miami never winning a championship gets me wet.

[Jotaro Durant]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads

[Tenchi Ryu]

and who decided to build this trio in the first place? yeh. check mate.
Damn

[zac]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads
This just blew my mind.

[dunksby]

Lebron has the worst supporting cast in the league.

[cteach111]

Doesn't matter, it will still be considered a failure. They promised 7+ in a row thinking 3 guys could win it all. Just because they were wrong it doesn't mean it won't be a disappointment. It will just go to prove how much of an ego those guys have and how you can't buy a championship in the NBA or take the easy way out.

how can it be a failure? Look at championship teams.. great coaching, well-constructed rosters, depth, chemistry, blah blah.

The thing is, Miami is losing to good teams and Lebron/Wade are actually playing fairly well. They chose to form a big 3, overlooking roster depth and that will hurt their championship hopes somewhat, but this team compares somewhat to the talent of past championship teams and clearly lacks the coaching expertise.

Who is Spo anyways? Has he actually played in this league like Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Rick Carlise have? That's a pretty important credential to be missing as a championship caliber coach these days.

[maybeshewill13]

excuse train

choo choo

put kobe on this team in place of wade and bron, use the remaining 10 mil to sign a decent player and this team wins easily

Rofl.. That would be an even worse team than Kobe is on now, and the Lakers aren't winning it this year.

Must be trolling, surely you can't be that stupid.

[DKLaker]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads

0 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ralph_i_el]

excuse train

choo choo

put kobe on this team in place of wade and bron, use the remaining 10 mil to sign a decent player and this team wins easily


can't tell if you're trolling or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= ~30 million in salary

Kobe= 25 million in salary

[RazorBaLade]

Rofl.. That would be an even worse team than Kobe is on now, and the Lakers aren't winning it this year.

Must be trolling, surely you can't be that stupid.

Chalmers (prime)Kobe Battier Odom Bosh would have beaten dallas last year and I don't know about OKC but certainly get out of the east and not lose to the bulls without rose, twice.

Easily. And no, the heat outside of the big 3 are clearly better than the lakers outside of the big 3. Look at the stats please.

[LakersReign]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads


Way too funny for words:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[RazorBaLade]

can't tell if you're trolling or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= ~30 million in salary

Kobe= 25 million in salary

Yea my bizzle on this but fine if kobe doesnt take the paycut like they did and they just go grab some MLE guy for those 5 million its still probably a better team for playoffs.

Assuming prime kobe obv, im not talking about now... he'd need to take the paycut and sign on another all star but if he did that now then yeah the heat would be better with kobe + 15 mil guy than they are now with wade and bron. I really believe that... maybe i got the stan goggles but I just think itd work. Put someone like lopez on that team instead of wade and kobe instead of bron and they are winning the title.. For the same money.

[lakers87]

They brought it upon themselves with their celebratory antics. Now, yes they have many flaws, but wasn't the point of bringing together 2 of the top 5 players along with a top 5 PF so they could mask any roster flaws?

[cteach111]

They brought it upon themselves with their celebratory antics. Now, yes they have many flaws, but wasn't the point of bringing together 2 of the top 5 players along with a top 5 PF so they could mask any roster flaws?

The way I see it, the Miami Heat experiment doesn't affect their legacies as players playing this game, but as guys that chose to take matters into their own hands. It's an important lesson that winning championships takes contributions from the players, the front office, and the coaching staff.

99% of the players in this league shouldn't be GMs because they don't understand how to build a roster and what it takes to build a winning team.

[BlueandGold]

can't tell if you're trolling or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= ~30 million in salary

Kobe= 25 million in salary
So that must really show his worth then?

Btw I 100% back what razor said about the excuse train. Let's not act like other past championship teams didn't have any flaws. The Lakers bench has been the worst over the past 5 years along with terrible stopping penetration issues at the PG position. Any Laker fan can tell you that and it's been going on ever since Parker lit up the Lakers for 40 in 03(or 04) and averaged 30 ppg against us.

Back as early as last year people were saying Lebron and Wade were 1 and 2 top players in the league.. and top was/is still top5 at his position. Your telling me a trio like that with also gritty role players like Haslem, Miller and Chalmers can't win a championship? Anyone who watched games 1-3 last year of the finals will say that even with the heat up 2-1 instead of 3-0 like they easily coudl have been that they had it in the bag. Hell even after game 5 many pundits were still picking the heat.. :facepalm

[TonyD]

It would be a failure because the expectations of that team are so high, within the media and within the organization itself. Even the Heat players themselves say it's championship or bust. You may not think that's fair, but that's the way it is.

[The Iron Fist]

can't tell if you're trolling or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= ~30 million in salary

Kobe= 25 million in salary
I can't tell if you're serious, or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= 1 ring

Kobe= 5 rings


Theres a reason why Kobe gets almost as much money as two guys who haven't won but 1 championship between them.

[The Iron Fist]

The way I see it, the Miami Heat experiment doesn't affect their legacies as players playing this game, but as guys that chose to take matters into their own hands. It's an important lesson that winning championships takes contributions from the players, the front office, and the coaching staff.

99% of the players in this league shouldn't be GMs because they don't understand how to build a roster and what it takes to build a winning team.


Thats because you're not too bright. It affects their legacies big time. Never before have 3 top players in their prime, all sign with the same team. These 3 guys had a championship parade before they even played one game together. They claimed multiple titles.

They'll be affected in a major way if it doesn't work out.

[cteach111]

Thats because you're not too bright. It affects their legacies big time. Never before have 3 top players in their prime, all sign with the same team. These 3 guys had a championship parade before they even played one game together. They claimed multiple titles.

They'll be affected in a major way if it doesn't work out.

What they claim doesn't matter... what matters are the facts and the fact is this team has glaring flaws outside of Wade/Lebron

[lakers87]

What they claim doesn't matter... what matters are the facts and the fact is this team has glaring flaws outside of Wade/Lebron


The one thing to prematurely take away from this (without the season being over), though is that they decided they wanted to team up and play together on the premise that they thought it would be an easier path to multiple titles. As a player, they can't control roster, but they are in full control of how they play together, mesh together, and ultimately decide how badly they want the title.

Has Lebron maximized his talents playing in Miami ?
Has Wade? Bosh?

you take a team like the Celtics, with Garnett, Allen, Pierce and they sacrificed parts of their game for the team.

During practice or video sessions, wouldn't lebron or wade perhaps decide that working on a different aspect of their own game would help the team better than having very similar styles, which doesn't allow great spacing?

How they decide to adapt to their enormous talents and to mask their weaknesses will make a great difference in their approach.

Lebron's had some meltdowns in the clutch, so then defer to Wade. AT the end of the day, it's championships that do matter .

[The Iron Fist]

What they claim doesn't matter... what matters are the facts and the fact is this team has glaring flaws outside of Wade/Lebron


There is never a perfect team. They all have flaws.

Those, are facts.

[Mr. Jabbar]

how flawed are they? they were 2 games away of winning it all on their first run if not for an epic lebron choke job...

it will be a disappointment, they are way stacked

[Asukal]

Disappointment? :roll:

More like a cause for celebration! :banana:

[RazorBaLade]

I can't tell if you're serious, or just an idiot.

also:

Wade+bron= 1 ring

Kobe= 5 rings


Theres a reason why Kobe gets almost as much money as two guys who haven't won but 1 championship between them.

He was saying that I can't replace kobe AND a 15 mil all star with both wade and bron because kobe makes as much as both of them put together (as they took a paycut to play with each other)... Has nothing to do with skill or rings or whatever. Makes sense but ultimately my point exists outside of real world situations im just saying kobe and a decent player with this cast failing to win a ring and win close games etc would come as more of a shock to basketball fans than lebron losing again at this point. Some guys just can't win. No matter how good the team is the NBA is full of talent and games will come down to the wire and if you can't win those you won't win a ring.

But my point remains, championship teams can be flawed and still be dynasties and if wade bron bosh can't do it then fine, but **** it, maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe prime kobe + bosh w. the rest of that cast and even a 5 mil 3rd option can do it either this year or have done it last year. If not, I would be upset with kobe not performing like he can instead of anything else.

[RazorBaLade]

The one thing to prematurely take away from this (without the season being over), though is that they decided they wanted to team up and play together on the premise that they thought it would be an easier path to multiple titles. As a player, they can't control roster, but they are in full control of how they play together, mesh together, and ultimately decide how badly they want the title.

Has Lebron maximized his talents playing in Miami ?
Has Wade? Bosh?

you take a team like the Celtics, with Garnett, Allen, Pierce and they sacrificed parts of their game for the team.

During practice or video sessions, wouldn't lebron or wade perhaps decide that working on a different aspect of their own game would help the team better than having very similar styles, which doesn't allow great spacing?

How they decide to adapt to their enormous talents and to mask their weaknesses will make a great difference in their approach.

Lebron's had some meltdowns in the clutch, so then defer to Wade. AT the end of the day, it's championships that do matter .

Oddly enough as unselfish bron is, he is completely unwilling to be a 2nd option and wade is an awful clutch player but he is in fact fearless so what you have ultimately is

1 player who refuses to defer and tries to get his statline for 47 minutes and then wants to be carried home, and 1 player who needs to get it going from the start in order to come through in that last min but demands it in the last minute anyways.. So they both stumble through games. It sucks to watch at this point. Lebron in NY would have been absolutely perfect, or as much as I hate to say it, the lakers. Makes no sense why he didn't go to the lakers. Wins a ridiculous amount of rings and kobe's a guy that would relish being the go to guy in the 4th for him for the next 5 years.

[kNIOKAS]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads
:bowdown:
greatest insight ever made. tip off my hat to you, sir. :applause:

[bagelred]

there are clear flaws with this team that are not the fault of Wade and Lebron. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the coaching is suspect and the roster is flawed.

There are reasons for them falling short if it comes to that. :confusedshrug:

It would mean another season wasted. Father Time waits for no one. Only so many opportunities left...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM7-PYtXtJM&ob=av2e :lebroncry:

[jrong]

there are clear flaws with this team that are not the fault of Wade and Lebron. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the coaching is suspect and the roster is flawed.

There are reasons for them falling short if it comes to that. :confusedshrug:

And what then? So we fire Spoelstra, and bring in a disciplined, offensive coach. Can you imagine James and Wade in a structured offensive system? Is Phil gonna put them in the triangle? Spo sucks, but he's boxed in by who James and Wade are.

The question is if/when they lose, are the Heat brass going to be humble enough to admit that the core design is flawed while LeBron is still young enough to win lots of championships instead of a couple at most and Wade has enough left to lead a contender?

Or are Wade and James going to keep getting in each other's way and messing up each other's rhythm for another two years?

[DMAVS41]

Bullshit.

Every team has flaws. This on the players. Terrible leadership from Lebron and Wade for starters. Lebron missing a ft that could ice the game last night....etc.

They have enough. They just have to be great. I'm so damn sick of this concept that star players should win titles without playing great. Why can't Lebron or Wade do something like Dirk did last year....or what Wade did in 06? That is what it should take to win the title.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win in all of sports. I read today on here that only 8 teams have won a title in the last 28 years in the NBA.

Be great. Be legendary. Play great in the big moments. That is what it will and should take to win.

And this is the problem with Wade/Lebron...and a lot of superstars now...they think it should be easy.

I think Bosh generally is way over-rated and I don't think Lebron and Wade compliment each other at all...but even with all that they have the best team. If Wade and Lebron play great in the playoffs night in night out....they will win the title.

So no excuses...none of that BS. Win or shut the **** up. Sick of it. I couldn't even imagine what a team with a big 3 of Kobe/Gay/Dirk would be doing this year right now. They'd be torching the league with the kind of supporting cast the Heat have. Right now they would be. With Dirk and Kobe at 34 years old. Put them in their prime with a very good 3rd option? Its title after title no doubt. So if these guys can't get it done...its on them. Not the coach...not the supporting cast...its on them.

[JohnnySic]

People have this idea that the Heat are, or should be, head and shoulders above every other team in the league. That idea was running thick at the start of this season.

Fact is, they are just one team in a group of about 7-8 with a shot to win it all.

[DMAVS41]

People have this idea that the Heat are, or should be, head and shoulders above every other team in the league. That idea was running thick at the start of this season.

Fact is, they are just one team in a group of about 7-8 with a shot to win it all.

It that is actually the case...then Lebron and Wade are severely over-rated as basketball players. Which I don't believe, but if they are really just one of the top 8 teams in the league....then that is the case.

[JohnnySic]

It that is actually the case...then Lebron and Wade are severely over-rated as basketball players. Which I don't believe, but if they are really just one of the top 8 teams in the league....then that is the case.
They are not overrated but the team is flawed in several ways. Lack of size, lack of post play, spotty pg play, among others. Other contenders have much better balance.

[DMAVS41]

They are not overrated but the team is flawed in several ways. Lack of size, lack of post play, spotty pg play, among others. Other contenders have much better balance.

And other contenders don't have two guys as good as Wade and Lebron. And the supporting cast is far better than they get credit for. Since when did Haslem and Battier become scrubs?

Chalmers gets no respect. He's good. He plays quality defense most of the time and he's not afraid to take big shots. The Lakers won with Fisher....yet the Heat can't win with Chalmers?

That is exactly the shit I'm talking about. You can't have it all. So what...you expect the Heat to have two top 5 players....a very good third option....and then great interior defense and rebounding? You shouldn't be able to get all of that. Thank god there are actually rules in place so that elite teams have to stay somewhat on the same levels.

Kobe/Shaq didn't have the greatest supporting cast ever....but they made it work. Shaq was all time great. He was dominant. Kobe was great at times as well...especially 01 and 02. Would that team have been better with more help? Sure, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

What I do know is that if Lebron and Wade play great basketball. Not just good, but great....they have the best chance to win the title. So again. Either be great and win....or shut the **** up and go fishing.

[Blue&Orange]

It won't be disappointing to me if they lose. It would be glorious.
:lol

[DukeDelonte13]

People have this idea that the Heat are, or should be, head and shoulders above every other team in the league. That idea was running thick at the start of this season.

Fact is, they are just one team in a group of about 7-8 with a shot to win it all.


Wade and Lebron are redundant players. They both can't play their best game when they are on the court at the same time. People always griping about bosh and how he should be traded. They should trade Lebron and stock their team with picks and role-players.

[cteach111]

Bullshit.

Every team has flaws. This on the players. Terrible leadership from Lebron and Wade for starters. Lebron missing a ft that could ice the game last night....etc.

They have enough. They just have to be great. I'm so damn sick of this concept that star players should win titles without playing great. Why can't Lebron or Wade do something like Dirk did last year....or what Wade did in 06? That is what it should take to win the title.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win in all of sports. I read today on here that only 8 teams have won a title in the last 28 years in the NBA.

Be great. Be legendary. Play great in the big moments. That is what it will and should take to win.

And this is the problem with Wade/Lebron...and a lot of superstars now...they think it should be easy.

I think Bosh generally is way over-rated and I don't think Lebron and Wade compliment each other at all...but even with all that they have the best team. If Wade and Lebron play great in the playoffs night in night out....they will win the title.

So no excuses...none of that BS. Win or shut the **** up. Sick of it. I couldn't even imagine what a team with a big 3 of Kobe/Gay/Dirk would be doing this year right now. They'd be torching the league with the kind of supporting cast the Heat have. Right now they would be. With Dirk and Kobe at 34 years old. Put them in their prime with a very good 3rd option? Its title after title no doubt. So if these guys can't get it done...its on them. Not the coach...not the supporting cast...its on them.


All I have to say is look at who was coaching Kobe. Phil Jackson. Who did Wade have when he had his the best postseason of his career? Pat Riley.

Who did Lebron have? Mike Brown? Spo?

It's possible to have the players, but not an organized team. This team is not organized.

It starts with the coach. Spo's gotta go and Riley's gotta come in or Adelman/Sloan.

[DukeDelonte13]

All I have to say is look at who was coaching Kobe. Phil Jackson. Who did Wade have when he had his the best postseason of his career? Pat Riley.

Who did Lebron have? Mike Brown? Spo?

It's possible to have the players, but not an organized team. This team is not organized.

It starts with the coach. Spo's gotta go and Riley's gotta come in or Adelman/Sloan.


Spo has always sucked but he is the least of the heat's problems. You guys don't have a bench, a center, or a capable PG.

[PTB Fan]

Why're there so many overreactions about this thing?

Miami has its flaws like any time. It's up to them to correct them before playoff time.

[Clutch]

It won't be disappointing to me if they lose. It would be glorious.
I share your feelings :applause:

[DMAVS41]

All I have to say is look at who was coaching Kobe. Phil Jackson. Who did Wade have when he had his the best postseason of his career? Pat Riley.

Who did Lebron have? Mike Brown? Spo?

It's possible to have the players, but not an organized team. This team is not organized.

It starts with the coach. Spo's gotta go and Riley's gotta come in or Adelman/Sloan.

Those are just excuses though....I agree that coaching is important, but coaching doesn't cause Lebron to miss a big free throw. Coaching doesn't cause Lebron to choke in the NBA finals last year.

Was coaching an issue when the Heat destroyed the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year? Why does it only become an issue when they lose?

Its all BS. The truth is that if Lebron hadn't choked his ass off last year the Heat would have already won a title. So until I see this team lose a playoffs series with Lebron and Wade playing great....all the rest is just noise. Just BS excuses for a couple of guys that thought it was going to be easy and aren't playing up to the levels they should be.

[INDI]

I don't buy that. This team does not need any additional stars, all they need is role players. At the 2,3,4 they have miller jones and barrier knocking down 3's, barrier one of the top perimeter defenders and haslem a cat that gives his all on every possession. There is not 1 team in the league that can best them at 3 of the 5 positions. They also have solid pg play suited for this team, they do not need a penetrating point because bron n wade got that covered, they got two pg's not afraid of the moment and charmers was arguably there best player in the finals.


There weak spot is the center but that's the same story for about 99 percent of the league. If Jordans bulls was able to dominate with mediocre centers in a center dominant era, then the heat should be able to do that even more now.

[jrong]

Those are just excuses though....I agree that coaching is important, but coaching doesn't cause Lebron to miss a big free throw. Coaching doesn't cause Lebron to choke in the NBA finals last year.

Was coaching an issue when the Heat destroyed the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year? Why does it only become an issue when they lose?

Its all BS. The truth is that if Lebron hadn't choked his ass off last year the Heat would have already won a title. So until I see this team lose a playoffs series with Lebron and Wade playing great....all the rest is just noise. Just BS excuses for a couple of guys that thought it was going to be easy and aren't playing up to the levels they should be.

I think they have choked away their best chance to win a title last year. Like others have said, the league is getting better. The Bulls and Thunder aren't going away, and neither are the Heat's fundamental problems.

[maybeshewill13]

Chalmers (prime)Kobe Battier Odom Bosh would have beaten dallas last year and I don't know about OKC but certainly get out of the east and not lose to the bulls without rose, twice.

Easily. And no, the heat outside of the big 3 are clearly better than the lakers outside of the big 3. Look at the stats please.

You're an idiot.

[cteach111]

Those are just excuses though....I agree that coaching is important, but coaching doesn't cause Lebron to miss a big free throw. Coaching doesn't cause Lebron to choke in the NBA finals last year.

Was coaching an issue when the Heat destroyed the Celtics and Bulls in the playoffs last year? Why does it only become an issue when they lose?

Its all BS. The truth is that if Lebron hadn't choked his ass off last year the Heat would have already won a title. So until I see this team lose a playoffs series with Lebron and Wade playing great....all the rest is just noise. Just BS excuses for a couple of guys that thought it was going to be easy and aren't playing up to the levels they should be.

show me another perimeter player that played as many minutes as Lebron has and won a championship.

He was probably fatigued.

[kenny817]

Chalmers (prime)Kobe Battier Odom Bosh would have beaten dallas last year and I don't know about OKC but certainly get out of the east and not lose to the bulls without rose, twice.

Easily. And no, the heat outside of the big 3 are clearly better than the lakers outside of the big 3. Look at the stats please.


With Bosh guarding Dirk?

Trolololololololololol

Dirk Finals MVP

[Glide2keva]

show me another perimeter player that played as many minutes as Lebron has and won a championship.

He was probably fatigued.
So now he's playing too many minutes to win a title. He's tired.

What does he need? Someone giving him a massage, serving him iced tea on the sidelines, four other star players and a hall of fame coach to win it all?

When will the excuses stop?

[Blue&Orange]

there are clear flaws with this team that are not the fault of Wade and Lebron. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the coaching is suspect and the roster is flawed.

There are reasons for them falling short if it comes to that. :confusedshrug:
You know what's funny...

Before nobody cared about the supporting cast, it was all about the big three, "it's going to be easy", "not 1 but 8 championships", "We can play Riley at SG", "WE DA BESS".

Yes clearly Lebron Wade and Bosh not enough, maybe they can convince Deron and Bynum to play for them for the minimum.

[pegasus]

There will be absolutely no excuses for Lebron, Wade, and Bosh if they fail again. They have a pretty decent supporting cast, and most importantly, they have each other. Supposedly two of the top-5 players in the league, and a top-5 PF.

If they fail, and I think they will, it will be because Lebron and Wade are not as good as their stats suggest, and Bosh is under-utilized.

[AlphaWolf24]

Bullshit.

Every team has flaws. This on the players. Terrible leadership from Lebron and Wade for starters. Lebron missing a ft that could ice the game last night....etc.

They have enough. They just have to be great. I'm so damn sick of this concept that star players should win titles without playing great. Why can't Lebron or Wade do something like Dirk did last year....or what Wade did in 06? That is what it should take to win the title.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win in all of sports. I read today on here that only 8 teams have won a title in the last 28 years in the NBA.

Be great. Be legendary. Play great in the big moments. That is what it will and should take to win.

And this is the problem with Wade/Lebron...and a lot of superstars now...they think it should be easy.

I think Bosh generally is way over-rated and I don't think Lebron and Wade compliment each other at all...but even with all that they have the best team. If Wade and Lebron play great in the playoffs night in night out....they will win the title.

So no excuses...none of that BS. Win or shut the **** up. Sick of it. I couldn't even imagine what a team with a big 3 of Kobe/Gay/Dirk would be doing this year right now. They'd be torching the league with the kind of supporting cast the Heat have. Right now they would be. With Dirk and Kobe at 34 years old. Put them in their prime with a very good 3rd option? Its title after title no doubt. So if these guys can't get it done...its on them. Not the coach...not the supporting cast...its on them.


http://i.imgur.com/XbsKj.gif
http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Boards/797/138797/393512.gif

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9QjARWd5a84/T3OXHJJbe1I/AAAAAAAAA34/OVtLNvwpMvI/s1600/nod-of-approval.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/yes/grand/Edward%20Scissorhands%20yes.gif


You Guy's finally see the light....

why can't they play great Like Kobe and Duncan ??...and be the great winners like Kobe and Duncan did for over decade??

[cteach111]

So now he's playing too many minutes to win a title. He's tired.

What does he need? Someone giving him a massage, serving him iced tea on the sidelines, four other star players and a hall of fame coach to win it all?

When will the excuses stop?

the excuses will stop when everyone opens their eyes and really sees what championship teams have...

1) great talent
2) great FO
3) great coaches

Jordan had Phil Jackson, Kobe had Phil Jackson, Shaq had Phil Jackson AND Pat Riley, Tim Duncan had Greg Popovich. Who would these guys be without their front office making the right moves? Who would they be without great coaching? The triangle offense?

You can't ignore this because this aspect of Miami is clearly lacking. The coaching there is not elite and Spo is a puppy compared to the veteran coaches in this league. He's too young to be coaching this level of talent.

They are playing ugly basketball because they aren't organized on both ends of the court. That's coaching.

[NumberSix]

You're an idiot.
Or is he?









Yeah, he is.

[Indian guy]

They have a pretty decent supporting cast

They actually don't. That's the problem.


If they fail, and I think they will, it will be because Lebron and Wade are not as good as their stats suggest

Make up your mind, dumbass. One second you admit to LeBron and Wade being Top 5, but the next second you don't think they are as good as their numbers. If you believe that, then why do you think they have enough to win?

[Indian guy]

It will be disappointing, it just won't be surprising. It's actually a blessing their flaws have been so brutally getting exposed since the AS break. People will set their expectations accordingly in the playoffs.

[AlphaWolf24]

It will be disappointing, it just won't be surprising. It's actually a blessing their flaws have been so brutally getting exposed since the AS break. People will set their expectations accordingly in the playoffs.


The expectations is to win championships every year...

when 3 superstars all in thier prime join 1 team....(especially after one superstar was on a 65 win team very close to winning a title)...you cannot blame losing on imaginary "flaws"...every team has "flaws"...


expectations are ...not 1....not 2....not ....not 4.....not 5....not 6....not 7...

but 8 NBA Titles....

dont kid yourself son..

[NumberSix]

expectations are ...not 1....not 2....not ....not 4.....not 5....not 6....not 7...

but 8 NBA Titles....

dont kid yourself son..
http://sports-kings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/john-havlicek.jpg

[pegasus]

They actually don't. That's the problem.



Make up your mind, dumbass. One second you admit to LeBron and Wade being Top 5, but the next second you don't think they are as good as their numbers. If you believe that, then why do you think they have enough to win?

I said "supposedly they are top-5", you ignorant bipolar flip-flopper. I'm not sure if they are top-5, but the majority think they are.

If they win, that's expected. If they don't, it proves that they are overrated. And it's not a loss-loss situation like some idiots would say. If they win a ring, that's still a win; they just won't be given the same amount of credit that other superstars get for winning without another superstar.

And yes, their supporting cast is good enough. You can't have all-star caliber players at every position and coming off the bench. If you want to see that happening, fly to London this summer if your psychiatrist releases you by then.

[Indian guy]

I'm not sure if they are top-5, but the majority think they are.

Who gives a sh!t about the majority. Stop being a coward and tell me what YOU think. If you're not sure they're Top 5, then why in GOD's name do you think they should win it all? You're the bipolar one, you dumb ****. On one hand you're convinced they are overrated, but you also think they should win. The ****'s wrong with you, retard?


If they win, that's expected.

Expected by whom? Certainly not you. You're not even sure they're that good.


If they don't, it proves that they are overrated.

You can't have it both ways, coward. Either they are overrated or they are not. Being overrated isn't conditional.

[pegasus]

Who gives a sh!t about the majority. Stop being a coward and tell me what YOU think. If you're not sure they're Top 5, then why in GOD's name do you think they should win it all? You're the bipolar one, you dumb ****. On one hand you're convinced they are overrated, but you also think they should win. The ****'s wrong with you, retard?

Expected by whom? Certainly not you. You're not even sure they're that good.

You can't have it both ways, coward. Either they are overrated or they are not. Being overrated isn't conditional.
I'll make it simple for you. Lebron and Wade have enough to win it all, multiple times. If they don't, you or anyone else won't be able to put the blame on the other players.

They both have played like they are the top-5 (heck, even top-2) players in the league during certain stretches of the season, but overall, especially in end game situations, they are not good.

If anything is bipolar other than you, it is Lebron and Wade's performance. One day they dominate whoever is in front of them in just one quarter then cruse to a victory, then the next day they lose to bench players in the 4th quarters. That makes it hard to evaluate them; but, if they fail again this year, not just me, but many people will come to a conclusion that they have been overrated all these years.

[Indian guy]

I'll make it simple for you. Lebron and Wade have enough to win it all, multiple times.

Based on what? You keep repeating this, but you're yet to provide any tangible reasons for it. Why should they win it all if you're convinced they are overrated and can't point to a single decent player on that roster besides the Big 3?


but overall, especially in end game situations, they are not good.

More reason to believe they aren't good enough to win it all, right?


One day they dominate whoever is in front of them in just one quarter

Such as....?? I don't recall them doing this to any good team in recent memory. Miami has struggled against top opponents since the AS break, with all of their flaws consistently getting exposed but you still believe they should win because....???


then the next day they lose to bench players in the 4th quarters.

Chicago's been kicking everyone's ass without Rose. There's no shame in losing to them on the road. It merely confirms they are better than the Heat.


but many people will come to a conclusion that they have been overrated all these years.

Being overrated/underrated isn't conditional. Either you think they're overrated now, or you're just trolling(which you are).

[pegasus]

Based on what? You keep repeating this, but you're yet to provide any tangible reasons for it. Why should they win it all if you're convinced they are overrated and can't point to a single decent player on that roster besides the Big 3?

More reason to believe they aren't good enough to win it all, right?

Such as....?? I don't recall them doing this to any good team in recent memory. Miami has struggled against top opponents since the AS break, with all of their flaws consistently getting exposed but you still believe they should win because....???

Chicago's been kicking everyone's ass without Rose. There's no shame in losing to them on the road. It merely confirms they are better than the Heat.

Being overrated/underrated isn't conditional. Either you think they're overrated now, or you're just trolling(which you are).

Are you saying that Chalmers, Haslem, Miller, Battier, Anthony, Jones, Turiaf are all bad players? Really? They may have been struggling since the all-star break, but so have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. It's the entire team. Are they all trash now?

Wait at least until they are eliminated from the playoffs before you throw their role players under the bus. Plus, you always say how bad Lebron has gotten since his Cleveland days, blah blah blah, but it's obvious now that if they fail, you will blame everyone but him.

[Indian guy]

Are you saying that Chalmers, Haslem, Miller, Battier, Anthony, Jones, Turiaf are all bad players?

That's what I am saying. They are all having awful seasons. With the exception of Chalmers and Haslem, would the rest even be rotation players on any championship team? They have a center rotation of Turiaf and Joel Anthony for crying out loud. No championship team has ever had anything resembling centers that bad. Their PG rotation is a joke too. They are pretty much playing with league-worst players outside the position the Big 3 play at. How is that an adequate cast?


Plus, you always say how bad Lebron has gotten since his Cleveland days

He IS a far cry from his Cleveland days, but he's still pretty good(borderline Top 5). He's doing his part. His teammates aren't and it's hard to see that changing.

[Phong]

Damn, I thought the "LeBron needs more help" excuse had long expired. Seems like it didn't. :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Bullshit.

Every team has flaws. This on the players. Terrible leadership from Lebron and Wade for starters. Lebron missing a ft that could ice the game last night....etc.

They have enough. They just have to be great. I'm so damn sick of this concept that star players should win titles without playing great. Why can't Lebron or Wade do something like Dirk did last year....or what Wade did in 06? That is what it should take to win the title.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win in all of sports. I read today on here that only 8 teams have won a title in the last 28 years in the NBA.

Be great. Be legendary. Play great in the big moments. That is what it will and should take to win.

And this is the problem with Wade/Lebron...and a lot of superstars now...they think it should be easy.

I think Bosh generally is way over-rated and I don't think Lebron and Wade compliment each other at all...but even with all that they have the best team. If Wade and Lebron play great in the playoffs night in night out....they will win the title.

So no excuses...none of that BS. Win or shut the **** up. Sick of it. I couldn't even imagine what a team with a big 3 of Kobe/Gay/Dirk would be doing this year right now. They'd be torching the league with the kind of supporting cast the Heat have. Right now they would be. With Dirk and Kobe at 34 years old. Put them in their prime with a very good 3rd option? Its title after title no doubt. So if these guys can't get it done...its on them. Not the coach...not the supporting cast...its on them.

:eek:

:applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Is this BS hyperbole about Lebron 'not having enough help' really garnering attention? Wow. :oldlol: Like I said, this dude needs the f*cking '92 dream team to get a championship.

[cteach111]

Is this BS hyperbole about Lebron 'not having enough help' really garnering attention? Wow. :oldlol: Like I said, this dude needs the f*cking '92 dream team to get a championship.

the Heat need a proper coaching staff. They can't give the reigns to a guy as inexperienced as Spo.

A better coach will make better use of the talent on that team.

[Replay32]

This team is lacking a inside presence. They don't have bigs to protect the paint or consistently get offensive rebounds. They are a jump shooting team. They are also poorly coached on offense and defense. They trap everything, leaving their defense scrabbling for no reason. This is also why the out of rebound position. And give up so many open jumpers.

They never pass bosh the ball down low when he has a mismatch. But if bron or wade have a big switched on them, they will dribble down the clock and throw up some bullshit shot only to brick it.

The team has poor BBall IQ. Bosh plays soft far too often and somebody needs to call him out or get in his ass. As leaders wade and lebron need to demand he play big. Make it an effort to give him the ball down low.

But all this boils down to the coach. He doesn't put his players in the best situations to succeed. You never see wade coming off screens to free him up for a mid range jumper. Or a play to get bosh deep post position. You rarely see solid off the ball screens or back door cuts.

And at the end of close games all they will run is top of the key screen roll or just go one on one. This wouldn't be a problem if they had bigs to get offensive rebounds consistently in the clutch like the lakers or the bulls. But they don't have the bigs for the style they play.

Where's the wade and james pick and roll? Where's James Jones? :facepalm

The heat don't have to roster or the coach to win a title. They had a better roster last year because they had a lot more bigger players at center to plug in. Just my 2 cents.

[AceManIII]

They are pretty much playing with league-worst players outside the position the Big 3 play at. How is that an adequate cast?


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[cteach111]

This team is lacking a inside presence. They don't have bigs to protect the paint or consistently get offensive rebounds. They are a jump shooting team. They are also poorly coached on offense and defense. They trap everything, leaving their defense scrabbling for no reason. This is also why the out of rebound position. And give up so many open jumpers.

They never pass bosh the ball down low when he has a mismatch. But if bron or wade have a big switched on them, they will dribble down the clock and throw up some bullshit shot only to brick it.

The team has poor BBall IQ. Bosh plays soft far too often and somebody needs to call him out or get in his ass. As leaders wade and lebron and demand he play big. Make it an effort to give him the ball down low.

But all this boils down to the coach. He doesn't put his players in the best situations to succeed. You never see wade coming off screens to free him up for a mid range jumper. Or a play to get bosh deep post position. You rarely see solid off the ball screens or back door cuts.

And at the end of close games all they will run is top of the key screen roll or just go one on one. This wouldn't be a problem if they had bigs to get offensive rebounds consistently in the clutch like the lakers or the bulls. But they don't have the bigs for the style they play.

Where's the wade and james pick and roll? Where's James Jones? :facepalm

The heat don't have to roster or the coach to win a title. They had a better roster last year because they had a lot more bigger players at center to plug in. Just my 2 cents.

this guy gets it.

Riley needs to step in ASAP. Kick Spo to the curb Stan Van Gundy style.

[OneBadUsername]

Lebron has the worst supporting cast in the league.

No sarcastic white text?

[cteach111]

No sarcastic white text?

i don't agree with that. The talent is there (besides the C spot), BUT the system.. the team play isn't there.

All championship-caliber teams have elite coaching staff. This decade was dominated by Popovich/Jackson and to a lesser degree Rivers/Thibodeau. Extending back to that past decade was almost entirely Phil Jackson.

The Heat's coaching staff is a joke.

Jordan/Kobe/Shaq were all nobodies till they got Phil

[BlueandGold]

Is indian guy really saying wade and lebron aren't top5 :facepalm.

I don't see who else would even trump them as top1 at their positions. Sure there is Durant and Kobe but one has 1/2 the experience of Lebron and the other has x2.5 as much mileage.

[blablabla]

so heat fans won't be dissapointed if their team fails to win a ring
bandwagon bitches

[FindingTim]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads

holy shit
Lebron knew all along :biggums:

[miggyme1]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads

HAHAHAHAHA LOL DAMN BOY THAT WAS FUNNY.IT WOULD BE SAD IF THEY DONT WIN AT LEAST ONE THO.I CANT LIE

[guy]

i don't agree with that. The talent is there (besides the C spot), BUT the system.. the team play isn't there.

All championship-caliber teams have elite coaching staff. This decade was dominated by Popovich/Jackson and to a lesser degree Rivers/Thibodeau. Extending back to that past decade was almost entirely Phil Jackson.

The Heat's coaching staff is a joke.

Jordan/Kobe/Shaq were all nobodies till they got Phil

Oh please. Players make coaches more then the other way around. Jordan and Shaq were already getting greatest or most dominant ever praises before they ever got with Phil.

[ronniec]

The one thing to prematurely take away from this (without the season being over), though is that they decided they wanted to team up and play together on the premise that they thought it would be an easier path to multiple titles. As a player, they can't control roster, but they are in full control of how they play together, mesh together, and ultimately decide how badly they want the title.

Has Lebron maximized his talents playing in Miami ?
Has Wade? Bosh?

you take a team like the Celtics, with Garnett, Allen, Pierce and they sacrificed parts of their game for the team.

During practice or video sessions, wouldn't lebron or wade perhaps decide that working on a different aspect of their own game would help the team better than having very similar styles, which doesn't allow great spacing?

How they decide to adapt to their enormous talents and to mask their weaknesses will make a great difference in their approach.

Lebron's had some meltdowns in the clutch, so then defer to Wade. AT the end of the day, it's championships that do matter .

Exactly.
People keep using Spo as an excuse why Miami can't win, but are Lebron and Wade coachable? Have we seen any good set plays from them? All Lebron and Wade do are only fast breaks, alley-oops, and drive to the basket. They never play team ball, and never had team concept in their minds.

[RazorBaLade]

With Bosh guarding Dirk?

Trolololololololololol

Dirk Finals MVP

What does it take to win a title? To lock down all 5 of the opposing players and beat them to a pulp? How about both superstars going at it and seeing which one out performs the other? Does prime kobe score 2 pts on avg in the 4th quarter to dirks 10 or so? Is it impossible to win if u have a single weakness or disadvantage? Jesus christ. Yeah dirk > bosh, but wade and bron > the rest of the ****ing team combined.

And whats with the coach bullshit? Do coaches win ball games now? Why don't the spurs win every year? Did carlisle lube dirk up every game and its to his credit that he completely outperformed prime bron in a finals series or is it just up to dirk vs lebron and wade and bosh?

[cteach111]

Oh please. Players make coaches more then the other way around. Jordan and Shaq were already getting greatest or most dominant ever praises before they ever got with Phil.

most dominant at getting playoff exits to the Pistons or the Magic getting swept by the Rockets?

You don't get praise in sports for "dominance". The only dominance that is important is winning. Before Phil got there, the Bulls lost year in, year out.

Even when Shaq bolted to LA, same story till Phil went there.

There's a common denominator in all of this: great coaching brings out the best in great talents. Great talents need great coaches as much as great coaches need great talents.

[RazorBaLade]

most dominant at getting playoff exits to the Pistons or the Magic getting swept by the Rockets?

You don't get praise in sports for "dominance". The only dominance that is important is winning. Before Phil got there, the Bulls lost year in, year out.

Even when Shaq bolted to LA, same story till Phil went there.

There's a common denominator in all of this: great coaching brings out the best in great talents. Great talents need great coaches as much as great coaches need great talents.

Phil wasn't the only change in the team in the year of him joining....

Phil joined the lakers in 06, why couldn't they win until 09? Phil was so great, right? Did it take him 3 years to elaborate on his offensive plans? Or did we just have to wait until we got pau and bynum and a bench was built? Did phil make pau good or was pau still a fine player anywhere? If you add howard and cp3 to the lakers team under the same coach are we unable to win?

[guy]

most dominant at getting playoff exits to the Pistons or the Magic getting swept by the Rockets?

You don't get praise in sports for "dominance". The only dominance that is important is winning. Before Phil got there, the Bulls lost year in, year out.

Even when Shaq bolted to LA, same story till Phil went there.

There's a common denominator in all of this: great coaching brings out the best in great talents. Great talents need great coaches as much as great coaches need great talents.

Jordan played a grand total of 5 seasons before Phil came along, 1 of which he barely played in. Are you really going to give Jordan a bunch of shit for not winning a title yet still getting far in the playoffs at that point for not winning a title in that short of a timeframe and with crappy teammates like that? Its so stupid. Part of the reason Phil is so overrated in the first place.

Shaq finally won cause he got healthy, they got rid of the knuckleheads on that team, and Kobe became the star he is. And what exactly is so embarrasing of Shaq getting to the Finals in the 3rd season? Who cares if they got swept.

Phil deserves credit, but the credit he gets for winning with the best talent in the league is ridiculous. I'll take the 2000 Lakers w/Kurt Rambis over the 2000 Lakers with PJ but w/o Shaq 100 times out of 100.

Stop excusing Lebron's failures and the fact that he can't win with another top 5 player in the league by using ridiculously shallow arguments.

[Phong]

LeBron needs the entire USA team, Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich to win the championship. Anything less is not enough.

[Disaprine]

lbj was right tho
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 not 5, not 6 not 7 not 8.......................he was spitting the truth but it went over some heads
:lol

[jrong]

Exactly.
People keep using Spo as an excuse why Miami can't win, but are Lebron and Wade coachable? Have we seen any good set plays from them? All Lebron and Wade do are only fast breaks, alley-oops, and drive to the basket. They never play team ball, and never had team concept in their minds.

Good question. They definitely aren't coachable by Spo. They'll either carry him to a championship or not.

But, I'm not sure any other coach could coach them together either. Separately, yes. But, look at the Bulls, especially last year. D-Rose stepped into the role that James played for his whole career and Wade played for half of his. They didn't beat the Heat in the playoffs, but that's because the Heat upped the superstar quotient at the crucial moments. On balance, I would still say the Bulls' offensive system worked than better the Heat's last year (to say nothing of this year).

Why? Because there's only one D-Rose on the floor not two! So Thibs (i.e. a GREAT coach unlike Spo) can give him the complete green light, and there's still enough basketball to go around. Thibs could let Rose be Rose and there were still sufficient opportunities for everyone else to contribute and get into the flow.

But, the key is TT has to still give Rose the chance to be Rose in order for the Bulls to hit their ceiling. The same principle theoretically appplies to the Heat: LBJ needs the chance to be LBJ and D-Wade needs the chance to be D-Wade.

But, since James, Wade, and Rose all require about 1/3 of their team's possessions to be themselves, you can see the problem the Heat face as opposed to the Bulls. James and Wade-- two players-- use 2/3 of the possessions (and Bosh uses about 50% of the remaining 1/3). So I don't know how any other coach could have more success than Spoelstra in simultaneously managing TWO players who need the ball that much.

[cteach111]

Good question. They definitely aren't coachable by Spo. They'll either carry him to a championship or not.

But, I'm not sure any other coach could coach them together either. Separately, yes. But, look at the Bulls, especially last year. D-Rose stepped into the role that James played for his whole career and Wade played for half of his. They didn't beat the Heat in the playoffs, but that's because the Heat upped the superstar quotient at the crucial moments. On balance, I would still say the Bulls' offensive system worked than better the Heat's last year (to say nothing of this year).

Why? Because there's only one D-Rose on the floor not two! So Thibs (i.e. a GREAT coach unlike Spo) can give him the complete green light, and there's still enough basketball to go around. Thibs could let Rose be Rose and there were still sufficient opportunities for everyone else to contribute and get into the flow.

But, the key is TT has to still give Rose the chance to be Rose in order for the Bulls to hit their ceiling. The same principle theoretically appplies to the Heat: LBJ needs the chance to be LBJ and D-Wade needs the chance to be D-Wade.

But, since James, Wade, and Rose all require about 1/3 of their team's possessions to be themselves, you can see the problem the Heat face as opposed to the Bulls. James and Wade-- two players-- use 2/3 of the possessions (and Bosh uses about 50% of the remaining 1/3). So I don't know how any other coach could have more success than Spoelstra in simultaneously managing TWO players who need the ball that much.

Almost everything you said here is pretty much based on questioning the Heat's team play... using each possession effectively. That all trickles down to their coaching. It's the last thing that is left to address for the Heat.

The only way to know is to bring in a coach that can run this team on both ends effectively. You said it yourself.. you don't know how the Heat would look with a different, better coach on that team.

I'd finally concede Wade/Lebron/Bosh couldn't get it done if that happens.

[AlphaWolf24]

That's what I am saying. They are all having awful seasons. With the exception of Chalmers and Haslem, would the rest even be rotation players on any championship team? They have a center rotation of Turiaf and Joel Anthony for crying out loud. No championship team has ever had anything resembling centers that bad. Their PG rotation is a joke too. They are pretty much playing with league-worst players outside the position the Big 3 play at. How is that an adequate cast?



He IS a far cry from his Cleveland days, but he's still pretty good(borderline Top 5). He's doing his part. His teammates aren't and it's hard to see that changing.


no way!!...look at his....



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FG%




he so much more efficient this season:confusedshrug:

[Derka]

I'll be more interested in commenting when I see how they play when the first round starts. How they're playing right now doesn't mean much to me.