Bynum sucks without Kobe right?

[StateOfMind12]

Andrew Bynum - 30 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 assists, 11-19 shooting.

Lettuce beef real tea here, Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers.

[DMAVS41]

Andrew Bynum - 30 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 assists, 11-19 shooting.

Lettuce beef real tea here, Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers.

No...he doesn't suck. He's very good.

He's also not the best player on the Lakers. Kobe is....and its really not close.

[All Net]

Was good to see drew have a good shooting night. He's been off lately

[StacksOnDeck]

No one said he sucked. They said his FG% is significantly lower without Kobe than with him.

[Jimmy2k8]

I have a better idea: Let's discuss the fact that the Lakers can win without Kobe. It's very possible that they can make it to the NBA Finals this year. But I highly doubt it.

[RazorBaLade]

lol what the **** kind of weirdo posts this shit after being dead silent the last 3 games?

also no one thinks he sucks. dmavs said it well

[RazorBaLade]

I have a better idea: Let's discuss the fact that the Lakers can win without Kobe. It's very possible that they can make it to the NBA Finals this year. But I highly doubt it.

srsly.. this team looks GOOD right now! rounding into form at the PERFECT time.. im excited. so much better than last yr

if not for ****ing okc man

[Dwade305]

5 star rg thread

[StateOfMind12]

lol what the **** kind of weirdo posts this shit after being dead silent the last 3 games?

also no one thinks he sucks. dmavs said it well
Good point, why anyone think Bynum sucks especially since he is clearly the best player on the Lakers. You can't really suck and be the best player on a playoff/contending team like the Lakers.

[SlayerEnraged]

I doubt it but Lakers could maybe get away without KoBe for a regular season but w/out him in the playoffs, they're goin home first round.

[RazorBaLade]

Good point, why anyone think Bynum sucks especially since he is clearly the best player on the Lakers. You can't really suck and be the best player on a playoff/contending team like the Lakers.

youre weird and homosexual

[Godzuki]

but..but... kobe opens up everything for his team. nobody gets open shots if kobe isn't playing...isn't that what they say? :lol

[Bladers]

38% the last three games without kobe...

about 40% overall. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

38% the last three games without kobe...

about 40% overall. :roll: :roll: :roll:

But posts like this cause a lot of this. Bynum absolutely dominated the Spurs...he played great.

And he was really good again tonight.

How on earth you are trying to act like Bynum didn't play great against the Spurs is beyond me.

[Heavincent]

Lettuce beef real tea here, you're a bipolar lunatic.

Anybody with half a brain knows that Kobe is clearly the best player on the Lakers. Deal with it kiddo.

[Deuce Bigalow]

But posts like this cause a lot of this. Bynum absolutely dominated the Spurs...he played great.

And he was really good again tonight.

How on earth you are trying to act like Bynum didn't play great against the Spurs is beyond me.
Bbbbbut but but he had a low FG%, therefore bad game

[Dwade305]

Lettuce beef real tea here, you're a bipolar lunatic.
I know his chinese parents will flip when they find out he spent his entire life wasting it trolling on ISH.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Why are we all still over-reacting to a few games. If they win a few games without Kobe that doesn't mean that they are better without him. If they lose 3 out of 4 without him that doesn't mean that Kobe is responsible for all their wins. It's a team game. They have enough talent to win many games with or without Kobe.

But....if you can't see what Kobe brings to the team then you are :biggums:

[LoneyROY7]

I really don't understand the thread title...

When has Bynum been without Kobe? Kobe's been coaching Drew these last couple of games.

[Bladers]

But posts like this cause a lot of this. Bynum absolutely dominated the Spurs...he played great.

And he was really good again tonight.

How on earth you are trying to act like Bynum didn't play great against the Spurs is beyond me.

I didn't. Im just putting things in perpective. Bynum is really good, no one is denying it. I'm putting out the facts which easily destroys RG's trolling.

And Bynum dominated the Spurs cause they were 3pt shot jackers and were missing everything which leads to more rebounds ofcourse. Its not like he shot well, he was 7 for 20.

He played a good all around game though no one is discounting that.

[Godzuki]

Lettuce beef real tea here, you're a bipolar lunatic.

Anybody with half a brain knows that Kobe is clearly the best player on the Lakers. Deal with it kiddo.


stfu with kiddo you foreign bipolar nerd :facepalm

[Human Error]

2012 Bynum >>> 2012 Kobe

You are a downright idiot if you do not agree.

[Bladers]

Why are we all still over-reacting to a few games. If they win a few games without Kobe that doesn't mean that they are better without him. If they lose 3 out of 4 without him that doesn't mean that Kobe is responsible for all their wins. It's a team game. They have enough talent to win many games with or without Kobe.

But....if you can't see what Kobe brings to the team then you are :biggums:

Its funny cause The heat are 12-1 without wade and no one is saying shit. But dear god if lakers win one or two games without kobe. its the end of the world:oldlol:

[Zach Morris]

Stupid Kobe Bryant haters waiting for Andrew Bynum and the Lakers to have a good game so they say "Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers." While stupid Kobe Bryant stans [which I really don't get] rooting against their own team hoping Bynum performs poorly so they can say "Andrew Bynum is nothing without Kobe."
:facepalm

OP, although I'm sure you know this, I'll type it anyway. Andrew Bynum is a beast, but he is not the best player on the Lakers, you idiot.

[MontaEllis24]

Doesnt matter whos better player in the lakers as long as they winnin, besides bynum beastin adds another threat to lakers how can that be a bad thing. Lakers scary good near playoffs.

[StateOfMind12]

2012 Bynum >>> 2012 Kobe

You are a downright idiot if you do not agree.
:applause:


Bynum is really good, no one is denying it.
Well I would think Bynum is really good. After all, he is the best player on this current Lakers team and this current Lakers team is a title contender. It is quite unheard of for the best player on a title contending team to not be good.

[Heavincent]

stfu with kiddo you foreign bipolar nerd :facepalm

Get off my ass you ****ing inbred retard. I know you're at a disadvantage as it is (you're a little "slow", to put it kindly), but that doesn't mean you have to continue to show us just how retarded you really are.

[Bladers]

Stupid Kobe Bryant haters waiting for Andrew Bynum and the Lakers to have a good game so they say "Andrew Bynum is the best player on the Lakers." While stupid Kobe Bryant stans [which I really don't get] rooting against their own team hoping Bynum performs poorly so they can say "Andrew Bynum is nothing without Kobe."
:facepalm

OP, although I'm sure you know this, I'll type it anyway. Andrew Bynum is a beast, but he is not the best player on the Lakers, you idiot.

I can't wait for heat to fail to make the finals. I will go full on HULK on the heat fanboys daily. :lol

[Bladers]

Everyone stop replying to the thread let it die.

[dunksby]

I think it is good that Brown is resting and Kobe and giving the opportunity to Bynum to hone his game. He would never be able to do it with Kobe on the court, he had to become the first option to learn how to cope with double teams and shit Kobe goes through every game.

[Godzuki]

Get off my ass you ****ing inbred retard. I know you're at a disadvantage as it is (you're a little "slow", to put it kindly), but that doesn't mean you have to continue to show us just how retarded you really are.


lol this kid is bi polar :oldlol:

[TOUCH MY BODY]

https://p.twimg.com/Aqay3vdCIAASr-o.png

[DMAVS41]

Bbbbbut but but he had a low FG%, therefore bad game

That is the problem. You think everyone thinks that. Its not true. And I don't care who the player is.

If a player goes 7-20 and grabs 30 boards and dominates the paint the way Bynum did...nobody in the world is going to say he had a bad game.

I just find it funny that a clear cut elite player in the league in Bynum gets this much hate from his own fans. No...he's not as good as Kobe. No...he's not a championship first option. What person with a brain is saying that though?

What he is...is now a borderline top 10 player in the league and he's only getting better. And he plays center....a position of supreme importance for the playoffs.

A lot of this is brought on by Kobe stans. Acting like these guys can't do anything without Kobe. Well...they are now 3-1 without him. Two very impressive wins. And in the Hornets game, they were extremely clutch late and came back to win...another think Kobe stans claim this team can't do.

So what does it all mean? It means that Kobe is clearly the best player on the team. It means that Bynum gets easier opportunities when Kobe plays because everyone in the world knows Kobe draws more attention. It also means that this supporting cast is more than good enough to win the title. Like I have said all year. If Kobe plays great...this team has a very good chance to win it all. And that is the way it should be.

[Legends66NBA7]

If Kobe plays great...this team has a very good chance to win it all. And that is the way it should be.

This is what I'm believing too.

They are peaking at the right time and have a great chance to get to the Finals to win it all.

If Kobe is fresh and can bring to form some semblance of his 08-10 form in the playoffs, the Lakers are team nobody wants to face.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That is the problem. You think everyone thinks that. Its not true. And I don't care who the player is.

If a player goes 7-20 and grabs 30 boards and dominates the paint the way Bynum did...nobody in the world is going to say he had a bad game.

I just find it funny that a clear cut elite player in the league in Bynum gets this much hate from his own fans. No...he's not as good as Kobe. No...he's not a championship first option. What person with a brain is saying that though?

What he is...is now a borderline top 10 player in the league and he's only getting better. And he plays center....a position of supreme importance for the playoffs.

A lot of this is brought on by Kobe stans. Acting like these guys can't do anything without Kobe. Well...they are now 3-1 without him. Two very impressive wins. And in the Hornets game, they were extremely clutch late and came back to win...another think Kobe stans claim this team can't do.

So what does it all mean? It means that Kobe is clearly the best player on the team. It means that Bynum gets easier opportunities when Kobe plays because everyone in the world knows Kobe draws more attention. It also means that this supporting cast is more than good enough to win the title. Like I have said all year. If Kobe plays great...this team has a very good chance to win it all. And that is the way it should be.
Is Dirk a better playoff performer than Kobe?
Is Dirk's '11 playoff run better than any of Kobe's?

[amfirst]

Just because dirk's legacy is about to go in the toilet u don't have to take it out on Kobe.

U understand that teams tend play well without their superstars temporary because other teams don't know how to prepare for them defensively. In the playoffs all teams will be prepare for every play. It's a different beast altogether.

Look at that one year houston went on the run without Yao. In the playoffs they would be cream because u need superstars to win.

[BEAST Griffin]

Is Dirk a better playoff performer than Kobe?
Is Dirk's '11 playoff run better than any of Kobe's?

Dirk had the most clutch playoff run since Michael Jordan. The guy was unbelievably clutch. More clutch than Kobe has ever been in the playoffs. And he had shooting efficiency throughout the playoffs that Kobe can't sniff.

It wouldn't be an insult to say Dirk's playoff run last season was better than any of Kobe's.

[Pinkhearts]

It's incredible what a polarizing figure Kobe is. People justwant to hate him or love him.

Everyone is forgetting that basketball is a team game. Lakers are definitely better with Kobe in it and leading them. Of course Kobe go on off games, but when he shoots above 45% the team as a great chance at the title.

[MontaEllis24]

It's incredible what a polarizing figure Kobe is. People justwant to hate him or love him.

Everyone is forgetting that basketball is a team game. Lakers are definitely better with Kobe in it and leading them. Of course Kobe go on off games, but when he shoots above 45% the team as a great chance at the title.
Exactly basketball is a team game Kobe alone does not dictate lakers win/lose.Bynum getting better makes the team better kobe will eventually comeback all the more to the lakers benefit. Lakers becoming stronger no reason to create conflict haters scared so they try to create tension but Lakers keep winning.

[Human Error]

Is Dirk a better playoff performer than Kobe?
Is Dirk's '11 playoff run better than any of Kobe's?
Are you nuts? Dirk's '11 playoff run easily destroys any playoff run by Kobe.

[sagr32]

Are you nuts? Dirk's '11 playoff run easily destroys any playoff run by Kobe.Dirk was certainly clutch throughout the '11 playoffs but Kobe has had better finals runs.

Dirk
2011:27.7/8.1/2.5



Kobe
2001:29.4/7.3/6.1
2009:30.2/5.3/5.5

Both those runs were at least on dirks level and 2001 was better

[Noof]

Bynum doesn't suck, and he's also not our best player, not even close.


Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls

[DMAVS41]

Is Dirk a better playoff performer than Kobe?
Is Dirk's '11 playoff run better than any of Kobe's?

I don't know about better. But they are certainly on the same level as performers in the playoffs.

As far as last year. I don't think Kobe could have ever won a title at any point in his career with the level of help Dirk had last year considering the competition he faced.

So I guess Dirk's run last year was better than any of Kobe's in my opinion...but I don't see the relevance.

Are you going to actually try and claim Kobe is on another level as a playoff performer? Because that would be absurd.

[DMAVS41]

Just because dirk's legacy is about to go in the toilet u don't have to take it out on Kobe.

U understand that teams tend play well without their superstars temporary because other teams don't know how to prepare for them defensively. In the playoffs all teams will be prepare for every play. It's a different beast altogether.

Look at that one year houston went on the run without Yao. In the playoffs they would be cream because u need superstars to win.

I've heard this a couple times now and I want to know why. Dirk has been playing great overall these last 2.5 months. Better than Kobe actually...who is shooting a putrid 40% from the field for that same stretch of time on absurd volume.

The Mavs are 8 games over .500....given their team and circumstances...how is that poor?

The Lakers have won a whopping 4 games more than the Mavs at this point. So you have Dirk....he had a knee injury clearly impacting his performance for the first month of the season....a completely new team...no training camp...a team riddled with injuries...and the key off season signing who was supposed to be the 2nd best player on the team turned out to be by far the worst player on the team and a huge distraction off the court.

The Mavs are currently only 2.5 games out of the 4th seed and 1 game out of the 5th seed.

Dirk, even with his slow start, is now averaging something around 21/7/2 on 46/36/89 splits with a 56% TS. Since the first month those numbers are around 23/7/3 on 59% TS.

Destroy his legacy? He's an all star and an all nba player and still playing like a player around the 10th best in the league. And he's 34 and the only consistent player on his team and he doesn't have the luxury of guys like Gasol and Bynum flanking him every night.

Congrats to Kobe for leading his team to 4 more wins with an infinitely better supporting cast and much fewer injuries. Congrats.....:wtf:

[rodman91]

Bynum plays as good as Howard this year.Anybody says not even close to Kobe, borderline stan or don't have a clue.

Kobe is still one of the most skilled & dangerous offensive player. Still leader, closer and go to guy in clutch moments for Lakers. But when we are talking about overall Bynum has case to be as good as or better this season.

[Anaximandro1]

I just find it funny that a clear cut elite player in the league in Bynum gets this much hate from his own fans. No...he's not as good as Kobe. No...he's not a championship first option. What person with a brain is saying that though?

It's all about the matchups.My Spurs have no answer for Bynum.He's their most valuable asset when facing the Spurs.

What he did was absolutely amazing.The Spurs are the #1 defensive rebounding team in the NBA,and score a lot in the paint.That's why we are 8-2 against the Thunder+Grizzlies+Clippers this season.However,Bynum single-handedly terrorized Parker and destroyed Duncan.The same Duncan who put up 28/12 against Marc Gasol one day later.

We make a pretty good froncourt, but Bynum is too much for us. :(

[LakersReign]

Exactly basketball is a team game Kobe alone does not dictate lakers win/lose.Bynum getting better makes the team better kobe will eventually comeback all the more to the lakers benefit. Lakers becoming stronger no reason to create conflict haters scared so they try to create tension but Lakers keep winning.


They're only doing that like you said cuz they're scared and have nothing else. Let them keep harping on their ridiculous hater theories all they want. People who really know something about basketball aren't going to take them seriously anyway.

[Nick Young]

tim duncan is shitting his pants at the thought of going up against Bynum in a 7 game series:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[All Net]

Bynum has been a stud this year and the way he has developed has been a joy to watch. Is he our best player? no but he is an elite player and by next season most should consider him a top 7-10 player IMO. I have alot of faith he can reach that level and stay consistant.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Are you nuts? Dirk's '11 playoff run easily destroys any playoff run by Kobe.
Kobe
'09 Playoffs
30.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg, .457%
'09 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg, .430%

Dirk
'11 Playoffs
27.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, .485%
'11 Finals
26.0 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 2.0 apg, .416%

[DMAVS41]

Kobe
'09 Playoffs
30.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg, .457%
'09 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg, .430%

Dirk
'11 Playoffs
27.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, .485%
'11 Finals
26.0 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 2.0 apg, .416%

Dirk's run of course does not destroy Kobe's...but just listing the stats and not making mention of the countless games Dirk saved for Dallas by having the most clutch playoff run since MJ or Bird isn't really fair.

It wasn't just about the numbers. It was how he played when it mattered most. 16 of the 21 games the Mavs played in the playoffs went into crunch time and Dirk was absolutely legendary in those most meaningful minutes.

You'd also need to mention that Dirk did this without the kind of help or coaching Kobe had during the runs you mention....and of course Kobe played easier competition as well.

And just so we all realize what Dirk actually did. Here are his clutch stats in the playoffs last year:

Per 36 minutes:

47.5 points
+/- of +52.6
54%fg
60%3
97% ft
76.8% TS

Dirk also increased how many times he got to the line, his rebounding, and he decreased his turnovers.

Like I said....LEGENDARY

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dirk's run of course does not destroy Kobe's...but just listing the stats and not making mention of the countless games Dirk saved for Dallas by having the most clutch playoff run since MJ or Bird isn't really fair.

It wasn't just about the numbers. It was how he played when it mattered most. 16 of the 21 games the Mavs played in the playoffs went into crunch time and Dirk was absolutely legendary in those most meaningful minutes.

You'd also need to mention that Dirk did this without the kind of help or coaching Kobe had during the runs you mention....
Kobe's finals performance is much better than Dirk's. 32 and 7 hasn't been done since Jerry West in '69. 5th player ever since '70 to average 30-5-5 in a Finals series.

And as far as the entire playoffs, Kobe became just the 5th player in NBA history to average 30 ppg in the playoffs and win a championship (Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem are the others)

And as far as a 30-5-5 playoff average? Only other player to do that leading a team to a championship? Michael Jordan.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe's finals performance is much better than Dirk's. 32 and 7 hasn't been done since Jerry West in '69.

And as far as the entire playoffs, Kobe became just the 5th player in NBA history to average 30 ppg in the playoffs and win a championship (Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem are the others)

And as far as a 30-5-5 playoff average? Only other player to do that leading a team to a championship? Michael Jordan.

I don't think so at all. But I really don't want to argue. Check out the clutch stats above before you made your post.

Think about the huge difference in competition level as well.

Kobe had a better team, a better coach, and faced weaker competition.

Stats wise I don't even know which one I would rate better overall. When you factor in the clutch play....I'll give it to Dirk.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't think so at all. But I really don't want to argue. Check out the clutch stats above before you made your post.

Think about the huge difference in competition level as well.

Kobe had a better team, a better coach, and faced weaker competition.

Stats wise I don't even know which one I would rate better overall. When you factor in the clutch play....I'll give it to Dirk.
I guess Magic's, Kareem's, Bird's, and Shaq's playoff runs are worse than DIrk's because they had tons of help

Kobe made clutch plays too, and was better overall. 8 rebounds for a 7 footer isn't exactly special.

[DMAVS41]

I guess Magic's, Kareem's, Bird's, and Shaq's playoff runs are worse than DIrk's because they had tons of help

Kobe made clutch plays too, and was better overall. 8 rebounds for a 7 footer isn't exactly special.

Who said Kobe didn't make some clutch plays? Who said it wasn't debatable? Not me.

Guess what is special for a 7 footer. Being able to stretch the defense and open up driving lanes for his entire team while also demanding a double in the post or the other team is getting torched.

Having the single most efficient game in NBA playoff history. Have arguably the best clutch run any player has had in NBA playoff history.

You act like Kobe scored a lot more. He scored like 3 more pts per game on 3% less from the field and 5% worse TS numbers.

I'll take Dirk's 28 pts on 49/46/94 61% TS over Kobe's 30 pts on 46/35/88 56% TS any day of the week


And again...those numbers don't even begin to tell the whole story of why Dirk's run was so great. I don't have the full numbers for Kobe, but he shot 44% efg% in the clutch in the playoffs in 09. Dirk shot 59% efg% in the clutch last year in the playoffs. An absolute huge gap in clutch play.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who said Kobe didn't make some clutch plays? Who said it wasn't debatable? Not me.

Guess what is special for a 7 footer. Being able to stretch the defense and open up driving lanes for his entire team while also demanding a double in the post or the other team is getting torched.

Having the single most efficient game in NBA playoff history. Have arguably the best clutch run any player has had in NBA playoff history.

You act like Kobe scored a lot more. He scored like 3 more pts per game on 3% less from the field and 5% worse TS numbers.

I'll take Dirk's 28 pts on 49/46/94 61% TS over Kobe's 30 pts on 46/35/88 56% TS any day of the week
Points
Kobe - 30.2
Dirk - 27.7

Rebounds
Kobe - 5.3
Dirk - 8.1

Assists
Kobe - 5.5
Dirk - 2.5

Steals
Kobe - 1.7
Dirk - 0.6

Blocks
Kobe - 0.9
Dirk - 0.6

eFG%
Kobe - .492
Dirk - .514

Kobe wins 4/6

A 6'6" Shooting Guard averaging more blocks than a 7 footer :lol

[Heavincent]

An absolute huge gap in clutch play.

What a huge exaggeration. Kobe was great in the clutch during the back-to-back championship runs.

[KingBeasley08]

Dirk's post season run last year was :bowdown:

:oldlol: at mentioning the chucker getting open looks due to Shaq

[DMAVS41]

Points
Kobe - 30.2
Dirk - 27.7

Rebounds
Kobe - 5.3
Dirk - 8.1

Assists
Kobe - 5.5
Dirk - 2.5

Steals
Kobe - 1.7
Dirk - 0.6

Blocks
Kobe - 0.9
Dirk - 0.6

eFG%
Kobe - .492
Dirk - .514

Kobe wins 4/6

A 6'6" Shooting Guard averaging more blocks than a 7 footer :lol


Numbers are numbers....production is production. Rebounds for Dirk count just as much as they do for Kobe.

If the better run was determined only by what you listed above...then Kobe would win.

Funny how you ignore TS%...which factors in free throws. You know....how Dirk shot 9% better from the ft line. Does that not matter? 9% is pretty significant I think. Don't you think that matters more than averaging .3 more blocks per game?

Or how about we talk about clutch play....you know, the real reason why Dirk's run is so amazing. Just a thought. You listed efg%....do you realize that Dirk shot 15% better in terms of efg% in the clutch than Kobe did. Don't you think that matters?

[The Iron Fist]

Its not coincidence that Kobe coaching makes Bynum play better.

[The Iron Fist]

Numbers are numbers....production is production. Rebounds for Dirk count just as much as they do for Kobe.

If the better run was determined only by what you listed above...then Kobe would win.

Funny how you ignore TS%...which factors in free throws. You know....how Dirk shot 9% better from the ft line. Does that not matter? 9% is pretty significant I think. Don't you think that matters more than averaging .3 more blocks per game?

Or how about we talk about clutch play....you know, the real reason why Dirk's run is so amazing. Just a thought. You listed efg%....do you realize that Dirk shot 15% better in terms of efg% in the clutch than Kobe did. Don't you think that matters?

Not when one guy is a PF and the other a SG.

[DMAVS41]

What a huge exaggeration. Kobe was great in the clutch during the back-to-back championship runs.

Kobe was good...not great. Dirk was beyond great.

Dirk shot 15% higher efg% than Kobe did. That is an absolutely humongous gap. And I'd imagine the TS when you factor in free throws was even bigger. Considering Dirk made 97%. Dirk made key game winners as well. Kobe, as usual, had a bigger margin of error because his team was better and he played weaker competition.

Remember Kobe getting blocked by Hedo on the game winner in Orlando. Imagine if Dirk had gotten his shot blocked by Bosh in game 2. Might have meant the end of the Mavs.

Exaggeration? Please explain to me how 15% efg% difference and an even larger TS% difference is not huge. ROFL....

[Deuce Bigalow]

Numbers are numbers....production is production. Rebounds for Dirk count just as much as they do for Kobe.

If the better run was determined only by what you listed above...then Kobe would win.

Funny how you ignore TS%...which factors in free throws. You know....how Dirk shot 9% better from the ft line. Does that not matter? 9% is pretty significant I think. Don't you think that matters more than averaging .3 more blocks per game?

Or how about we talk about clutch play....you know, the real reason why Dirk's run is so amazing. Just a thought. You listed efg%....do you realize that Dirk shot 15% better in terms of efg% in the clutch than Kobe did. Don't you think that matters?
How many of Dirk's shots were assisted compared to Kobe's?

[DMAVS41]

Not when one guy is a PF and the other a SG.

Then you can't bring up assists. Can't have it both ways. One guy has a much better chance to rack up assists.

So you have 8 boards vs 5 boards....and 3 assists vs 6 assists or whatever Kobe averaged.

That would be a push.

[DMAVS41]

How many of Dirk's shots were assisted compared to Kobe's?

And that matters? I have no idea....you tell me. Show me both of their numbers in terms of assisted buckets in crunch time or STFU. How many bad shots did Kobe take instead of passing like Dirk did.

How many times did Kobe go to the ft line late in games and miss compared to Dirk. 97% for Dirk from the ft line in the clutch by the way...

You Kobe stans always have an excuse for everything. 15%efg difference.....ROFL

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe was good...not great. Dirk was beyond great.

Dirk shot 15% higher efg% than Kobe did. That is an absolutely humongous gap. And I'd imagine the TS when you factor in free throws was even bigger. Considering Dirk made 97%. Dirk made key game winners as well. Kobe, as usual, had a bigger margin of error because his team was better and he played weaker competition.

Remember Kobe getting blocked by Hedo on the game winner in Orlando. Imagine if Dirk had gotten his shot blocked by Bosh in game 2. Might have meant the end of the Mavs.

Exaggeration? Please explain to me how 15% efg% difference and an even larger TS% difference is not huge. ROFL....
The game went into Overtime, and I know Kobe scored then. Dirk's game wouldve went into OT as well, but he only had 1 defender on him and had an easy layup, and before that a wide open 3.

[The Iron Fist]

Then you can't bring up assists. Can't have it both ways. One guy has a much better chance to rack up assists.

So you have 8 boards vs 5 boards....and 3 assists vs 6 assists or whatever Kobe averaged.

That would be a push.


Assists aren't based on size and where a position is played though. Rebounds are.

[DMAVS41]

The game went into Overtime, and I know Kobe scored then. Dirk's game wouldve went into OT as well, but he only had 1 defender on him and had an easy layup, and before that a wide open 3.

And if he had 3 defenders on him...he would have passed.

Dirk played tougher competition, had less help, had a worse coach....had very similar overall numbers....and played far better in crunch time.

Dirk gets this.

28/8/3 61% TS...better from the field, 3 point line, and ft line

30/5/6 56% TS

I honestly don't know which stat line is better. I'd probably lean slightly towards Kobe's. But then when you factor in competition level and clutch play and help....you have to give it to Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

Assists aren't based on size and where a position is played though. Rebounds are.

Total and utter BS. Kobe's position on the floor gives him far better chances to rack up assists. Are you really going to dispute that a guard that has the ball in his hands as often as Kobe does...doesn't have a better chance to assist players.

And again....Dirk's impact on offense goes far deeper than just assist numbers. Having a 7 footer that can beat you from the 3 point line and run high pick and rolls and pop to the 3 point line is a huge advantage. Huge.

It spaces the floor in ways really no other player in the league today can.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And if he had 3 defenders on him...he would have passed.

Dirk played tougher competition, had less help, had a worse coach....had very similar overall numbers....and played far better in crunch time.

Dirk gets this.

28/8/3 61% TS...better from the field, 3 point line, and ft line

30/5/6 56% TS

I honestly don't know which stat line is better. I'd probably lean slightly towards Kobe's. But then when you factor in competition level and clutch play and help....you have to give it to Dirk.
What about the Finals?

Kobe - 32/6/7/43% with 1.4 bpg, and 1.4 spg
vs
Dirk - 26/10/2/41.6% with 0.7 bpg and 0.7 spg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Oh yeah I forgot

WHAT ABOUT DEFENSE?

[Heavincent]

Kobe was good...not great. Dirk was beyond great.

Dirk shot 15% higher efg% than Kobe did. That is an absolutely humongous gap. And I'd imagine the TS when you factor in free throws was even bigger. Considering Dirk made 97%. Dirk made key game winners as well. Kobe, as usual, had a bigger margin of error because his team was better and he played weaker competition.

Remember Kobe getting blocked by Hedo on the game winner in Orlando. Imagine if Dirk had gotten his shot blocked by Bosh in game 2. Might have meant the end of the Mavs.

Exaggeration? Please explain to me how 15% efg% difference and an even larger TS% difference is not huge. ROFL....

I vividly remember the 09 and 10 playoffs, and Kobe was money in the clutch. He HAD to be. The Lakers relied on him to close out games...and look at the results. Back to back championships.

I've always thought the "player X is better than player Y because player Y had more help" thing was really ****ing stupid. It's not like Dirk carried a bunch of scrubs to the championship anyway.

[DMAVS41]

What about the Finals?

Kobe - 32/6/7/43% with 1.4 bpg, and 1.4 spg
vs
Dirk - 26/10/2/41.6% with 0.7 bpg and 0.7 spg

What about the finals? Dirk played a far better team. And Dirk's numbers are somewhat skewed due to the game he played sick.

Not to mention again....Dirk was supremely clutch in the finals making huge play after huge play to keep the Mavs alive and win the games.

Orlando was giving up career numbers to everyone that year on the perimeter as well.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What about the finals? Dirk played a far better team. And Dirk's numbers are somewhat skewed due to the game he played sick.

Not to mention again....Dirk was supremely clutch in the finals making huge play after huge play to keep the Mavs alive and win the games.

Orlando was giving up career numbers to everyone that year on the perimeter as well.
Orlando was the #1 defense in the league in 2008-09, also had the DPOY Dwight Howard in the middle

Miami was not a better defensive team

and sick excuse? DIdn't Kobe have a messed up finger?

[DMAVS41]

I vividly remember the 09 and 10 playoffs, and Kobe was money in the clutch. He HAD to be. The Lakers relied on him to close out games...and look at the results. Back to back championships.

I've always thought the "player X is better than player Y because player Y had more help" thing was really ****ing stupid. It's not like Dirk carried a bunch of scrubs to the championship anyway.

He shot 44% efg% in the playoffs in 09 and 41% efg% in 10. Dirk shot 59% efg% last year and shot 76.8% TS as well.

I'd say that is pretty damn big gap.

Who said Dirk carried scrubs? He just happened to carry a huge underdog team to the title going through extremely difficult competition. And he happened to play far better than Kobe ever has in the clutch throughout his entire career. Kobe's best clutch performance in the playoffs of his career when winning the title came in 01 when he shot 50% efg%....still 9% off of Dirk last year.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He shot 44% efg% in the playoffs in 09 and 41% efg% in 10. Dirk shot 59% efg% last year and shot 76.8% TS as well.

I'd say that is pretty damn big gap.

Who said Dirk carried scrubs? He just happened to carry a huge underdog team to the title going through extremely difficult competition. And he happened to play far better than Kobe ever has in the clutch throughout his entire career. Kobe's best clutch performance in the playoffs of his career when winning the title came in 01 when he shot 50% efg%....still 9% off of Dirk last year.
Competition

blazers - no threat
back to back defending champs - how many defending champs repeat? let alone 3peat
thunder - too young
choking miami heat in their first year together

so tough

[DMAVS41]

Orlando was the #1 defense in the league in 2008-09, also had the DPOY Dwight Howard in the middle

Miami was not a better defensive team

and sick excuse? DIdn't Kobe have a messed up finger?

Its not an excuse. It happened. Dirk played extremely sick in a game in the finals and it clearly impacted his overall stats.

[Deuce Bigalow]

let us not forget that Kobe is a better defender than Dirk. And defense is 50% of basketball.

[DMAVS41]

Competition

blazers - no threat
back to back defending champs - how many defending champs repeat? let alone 3peat
thunder - too young
choking miami heat in their first year together

so tough

Easily more difficult than the 09 run. LOL....playing a prime Lebron and Wade in the finals. A very good Thunder team. A team with Kobe, Pau, and Bynum...coming off 3 straight finals...coached by Phil Jackson.

ROFL...definitely harder than the cream puff Magic and unproven Nuggets.

[chazzy]

He shot 44% efg% in the playoffs in 09 and 41% efg% in 10. Dirk shot 59% efg% last year and shot 76.8% TS as well.

Where are these numbers?

[DMAVS41]

let us not forget that Kobe is a better defender than Dirk. And defense is 50% of basketball.

For starters...offense is way more important at the elite level. 2nd...Kobe hasn't been an impact defender since the 04 season really. And lastly, Dirk played really good defense in the playoffs. He played great defense on Aldridge in round 1...the same Aldridge that killed Chandler. And Gasol did nothing on him.

Please don't try and use defense. Kobe has been a non factor for years. Years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Easily more difficult than the 09 run. LOL....playing a prime Lebron and Wade in the finals. A very good Thunder team. A team with Kobe, Pau, and Bynum...coming off 3 straight finals...coached by Phil Jackson.

ROFL...definitely harder than the cream puff Magic and unproven Nuggets.
Lakers weren't tough. You guys swept them easily. How many teams in history went on to 3peat?

Celtics in the 60's
Bulls in the '90s twice
lakers in '00s

thats it in the 60+ years of the NBA

[DMAVS41]

Where are these numbers?

Dirk's clutch numbers are on nbastats cube for the playoffs last year.

Kobe's numbers are at http://www.backpicks.com/2012/03/20/the-crunch-time-myth-why-closers-and-clutch-shooting-are-overrated-part-ii/

Check the comments section.

[Deuce Bigalow]

For starters...offense is way more important at the elite level. 2nd...Kobe hasn't been an impact defender since the 04 season really. And lastly, Dirk played really good defense in the playoffs. He played great defense on Aldridge in round 1...the same Aldridge that killed Chandler. And Gasol did nothing on him.

Please don't try and use defense. Kobe has been a non factor for years. Years.
non factor? :facepalm

Talk about 8.1 RPG and 0.6 BPG for a 7 footer :roll: what do you call that? complete weakness?

[DMAVS41]

non factor? :facepalm

Talk about 8.1 RPG and 0.6 BPG for a 7 footer :roll: what do you call that? complete weakness?

I'm not arguing Dirk as a defensive force. You shouldn't be arguing for Kobe either. Its a non factor in this debate. Kobe didn't do anything defensively of note.

Its a total shift in the discussion because you are losing the debate. You want to talk about defense...but not the huge gap and importance of the clutch play.

ROFL....

[Heavincent]

Please don't try and use defense. Kobe has been a non factor for years. Years.

Guess you didn't see him put the clamps down on Westbrook after he completely torched Fisher.

[DMAVS41]

Guess you didn't see him put the clamps down on Westbrook after he completely torched Fisher.

That was 2010...not 2009. You really don't even know that? :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm not arguing Dirk as a defensive force. You shouldn't be arguing for Kobe either. Its a non factor in this debate. Kobe didn't do anything defensively of note.

Its a total shift in the discussion because you are losing the debate. You want to talk about defense...but not the huge gap and importance of the clutch play.

ROFL....
Kobe averaged 3X more SPG. 2X more BPG than a 7 footer

ROFL...

[Heavincent]

That was 2010...not 2009. You really don't even know that? :facepalm

I knew it was 2010. Who said we were just talking about 09? :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Kobe averaged 3X more SPG. 2X more BPG than a 7 footer

ROFL...

What? .3 more blocks per game means nothing. Its irrelevant.

[chazzy]

Please don't try and use defense. Kobe has been a non factor for years. Years.
Kobe definitely picks up his defense in the playoffs though. He was playing great help defense on Dwight in the finals, good overall help D in the Boston finals, switching over to Westbrook in the OKC series sealed the series etc.

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe averaged 3X more SPG. 2X more BPG than a 7 footer

ROFL...



ouch

[Deuce Bigalow]

That was 2010...not 2009. You really don't even know that? :facepalm
speaking of his 2010 playoff run

Last 3 Rounds in '10 Playoffs, after getting knee drained
31.2 PPG
6.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.471 FG%

A stretch of 30+ points in 10/11 games

Defending his title

[The Iron Fist]

speaking of his 2010 playoff run

Last 3 Rounds in '10 Playoffs, after getting knee drained
31.2 PPG
6.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.471 FG%

A stretch of 30+ points in 10/11 games

Defending his title

"bu, but Pau carried him".

[DMAVS41]

Kobe definitely picks up his defense in the playoffs though. He was playing great help defense on Dwight in the finals, good overall help D in the Boston finals, switching over to Westbrook in the OKC series sealed the series etc.

And the exact same could be said about Dirk last year. He was huge against Aldridge in round 1. We had no answer for him. Chandler was getting his ass handed to him.

Gasol couldn't do anything on him.

Dirk made his proper rotations and really stepped it up on defense last year in the playoffs. Especially late in games. When Dirk was on the floor in crunch time last year....the Mavs had a defensive rating of 69.57....amazing.

[Heavincent]

That was 2010...not 2009. You really don't even know that? :facepalm

lol at this cop-out though. Who said we were just talking about 09? You said Kobe hasn't been a good defender for years, and I simply corrected you.

[DMAVS41]

lol at this cop-out though. Who said we were just talking about 09? You said Kobe hasn't been a good defender for years, and I simply corrected you.

He hasn't. A few games here and there is nothing.

I could say the exact same thing for Dirk last year. I guess you forgot what Dirk did to Aldrige that was so key in the first series. When our "defensive stopper" was getting absolutely raped.

Did you forget that?

[DMAVS41]

Oh...and another thing. In 09...the Lakers as a team shot 55% efg% in the clutch while Kobe shot 44%. So in reality the rest of the Lakers outside of Kobe shot somewhere around 60% efg%. A huge drop off.

Dirk, of course shot higher than his team. Just another illustration of the huge gap in clutch play.

Ouch....

[04mzwach]

Chucking doesn't help the Lakers. Give the ball to Bynum you greedy mofo. Trade Kobe for somebody decent. Like...Derek Fisher. :lol