Kobe vs. Comparable Defensive Rated Teams of Jordan's Era

[bwink23]

This is a snip-it of what Kobe's stats MIGHT like look if he were playing in the 80's/early 90's. This is based off of stats from teams of his era, playing at similar defensive ratings and game pace. (From 2000-2010 seasons)

Average league D-rating from 87-93 = 107.9
Average game pace from 87-93 = 99.4

Since their weren't alot of teams pulling off that high of game pace back then, i have to take the highest ones at around 107.9 D-rating.

24 teams total, 77 games total.

The teams with this criteria were:

1. Warriors - 23 games
2. Suns - 14 games
3. Nuggets - 14 games
4. Pacers - 6 games
5. Sonics - 4 games
6. Magic - 4 games
7. Kings - 4 game
8. Mavericks - 4 games
9. Wizards - 2 games
10. Cavs - 2 games

The D-rating of these teams = 107.7
average game pace = 95.7


Kobe's numbers vs. these teams:

29.4ppg on 46.9%FG at 21.6 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.7 attempts
8.4 FT's per game.
2-point conversion rate = 50.6%FG
eFG% = 50.5%
6.2 rebs, 6.0 assists, 1.5 steals


For comparisons sake, i put Jordan' numbers up vs. the comparable teams of his era who also had similar D-ratings and game pace.

22 teams, 73 games total:

Average D-rating = 107.8
average game pace = 95.7

33.2ppg on 51.7%FG at 24.9 FG's per game.
29.1%3FG at 2.0 attempts per game.
8.1 FTA
2-point conversion rate = 53.7%FG
eFG% = 52.9%
6.5 rebs, 5.4 assists, 2.8 steals


Now looking at these numbers, there are of course still discrepancies...those being the difference in game styles, particularly 3-point shooting and rule changes, and how those changes affect the perimeter play between the eras....

It's a very gray area, considering the rule changes put in place were meant to DIRECTLY IMPACT guards on the perimeter.

A couple of things that simply WOULD NOT HAPPEN for Kobe in Jordan's era...as much as some kids would like to believe it, Kobe WOULD NOT be averaging nearly 5 3's a game. There's that GAME STYLE difference. And, he wouldn't be getting all those FT attempts with that few of FG attempts. I don't see Kobe's jumpshooting style changing, considering he's always hated contact.

Go ahead on comment....i understand this is a small sample size and cherry picking at it's finest, but the differences in eras doesn't leave much data that is useful.

Not to mention...defensive rating and game pace to me, seems to be the only real stats that when put together could even come close to making an observation that isn't completely absurd.

[blablabla]

kobe>jordan

[AlphaWolf24]

Lord GawdBE>Air

Aesthetically pleasing with #1 Skillset alltime>2% TS and marginal stats in the waterd down 90's


24>23



next

[Jimmy2k8]

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/didnt-read-lol.gif

[DKLaker]

This is a snip-it of what Kobe's stats MIGHT like look if he were playing in the 80's/early 90's. This is based off of stats from teams of his era, playing at similar defensive ratings and game pace. (From 2000-2010 seasons)

Average league D-rating from 87-93 = 107.9
Average game pace from 87-93 = 99.4

Since their weren't alot of teams pulling off that high of game pace back then, i have to take the highest ones at around 107.9 D-rating.

24 teams total, 77 games total.

The teams with this criteria were:

1. Warriors - 23 games
2. Suns - 14 games
3. Nuggets - 14 games
4. Pacers - 6 games
5. Sonics - 4 games
6. Magic - 4 games
7. Kings - 4 game
8. Mavericks - 4 games
9. Wizards - 2 games
10. Cavs - 2 games

The D-rating of these teams = 107.7
average game pace = 95.7


Kobe's numbers vs. these teams:

29.4ppg on 46.9%FG at 21.6 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.7 attempts
8.4 FT's per game.
2-point conversion rate = 50.6%FG
eFG% = 50.5%
6.2 rebs, 6.0 assists, 1.5 steals


For comparisons sake, i put Jordan' numbers up vs. the comparable teams of his era who also had similar D-ratings and game pace.

22 teams, 73 games total:

Average D-rating = 107.8
average game pace = 95.7

33.2ppg on 51.7%FG at 24.9 FG's per game.
29.1%3FG at 2.0 attempts per game.
8.1 FTA
2-point conversion rate = 53.7%FG
eFG% = 52.9%
6.5 rebs, 5.4 assists, 2.8 steals


Now looking at these numbers, there are of course still discrepancies...those being the difference in game styles, particularly 3-point shooting and rule changes, and how those changes affect the perimeter play between the eras....

It's a very gray area, considering the rule changes put in place were meant to DIRECTLY IMPACT guards on the perimeter.

A couple of things that simply WOULD NOT HAPPEN for Kobe in Jordan's era...as much as some kids would like to believe it, Kobe WOULD NOT be averaging nearly 5 3's a game. There's that GAME STYLE difference. And, he wouldn't be getting all those FT attempts with that few of FG attempts. I don't see Kobe's jumpshooting style changing, considering he's always hated contact.

Go ahead on comment....i understand this is a small sample size and cherry picking at it's finest, but the differences in eras doesn't leave much data that is useful.

Not to mention...defensive rating and game pace to me, seems to be the only real stats that when put together could even come close to making an observation that isn't completely absurd.

I thought that idiot Bruce Blitz died......but obviously he's teaching you :banghead: :banghead: Dumbass thread!!!!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

More interesting would be Jordan vs comparable playoff defensive rated teams that Kobe faced.

The Jordan mythologists like to believe that Jordan would shred the 04 Pistons because he puts up some numbers against some creampuff Finals defenses.

[bwink23]

More interesting would be Jordan vs comparable playoff defensive rated teams that Kobe faced.

The Jordan mythologists like to believe that Jordan would shred the 04 Pistons because he puts up some numbers against some creampuff Finals defenses.


The Kobe myth-huggers seem to think that Kobe would "destroy", "rape", and "merk" the competition of Jordan's era due to "inflated" stats and "poor defensive teams"

yet based off of those numbers from his own era with rules to cater to his game...he's shooting well, but not DESTROYING anyone...

:coleman:

[KingBeasley08]

King Jordan :bowdown:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Kobe myth-huggers seem to think that Kobe would "destroy", "rape", and "merk" the competition of Jordan's era due to "inflated" stats and "poor defensive teams"

yet based off of those numbers from his own era with rules to cater to his game...he's shooting well, but not DESTROYING anyone...

:coleman:

Pretty marginal differences across the board. You also left out TS% so I have to assume the reason you did so was because Kobe tops Jordan in that stat. :oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

Pretty marginal differences across the board. You also left out TS% so I have to assume the reason you did so was because Kobe tops Jordan in that stat. :oldlol:
6 rings. 6 MVPs

next

[bwink23]

Pretty marginal differences across the board. You also left out TS% so I have to assume the reason you did so was because Kobe tops Jordan in that stat. :oldlol:


TS% is a flawed stat in which FT's has a retarded amount of impact on. It inflates Kobe impact due to weak rules and officiating.

There is no world in this universe that Kobe would draw more fouls than Michael Jordan in the 80's on less FG attempts...:no:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

TS% is a flawed stat in which FT's has a retarded amount of impact on. It inflates Kobe impact due to weak rules and officiating.

There is no world in this universe that Kobe would draw more fouls than Michael Jordan in the 80's on less FG attempts...:no:

Right TS% is a biased stat because it makes Jordan look bad because he of all people got not respect in a league where he was the golden calf

:roll:

I fear that in the depths of your delusions that you actually believe that

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I love how Jordan fans are so obsessed with Kobe.

[bwink23]

Right TS% is a biased stat because it makes Jordan look bad because he of all people got not respect in a league where he was the golden calf

:roll:

I fear that in the depths of your delusions that you actually believe that


Like i said..

Kobe vs. those teams 21.6 FG / 8.4 FT
Jordan vs. his 24.9 FG / 8.1 FT

Stick Kobe in the 80's and that simply does not happen...:no:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Like i said..

Kobe vs. those teams 21.6 FG / 8.4 FT
Jordan vs. his 24.9 FG / 8.1 FT

Stick Kobe in the 80's and that simply does not happen...:no:

Why, because it doesn't fit the mythology you created for Jordan? Its your own numbers. Kobe was better at drawing fouls. Drawing fouls is second to only maybe dunking the ball as the most efficient way to score. You can't just ignore that and expect to be taken seriously.

[bwink23]

Why, because it doesn't fit the mythology you created for Jordan? Its your own numbers. Kobe was better at drawing fouls. Drawing fouls is second to only maybe dunking the ball as the most efficient way to score. You can't just ignore that and expect to be taken seriously.


You can't ignore the rules changes that let that happen....Jordan was relentless at driving to the hoop, Kobe has always been more of a jumpshooter.

The proof is in their styles of play. Exercise some common sense for a change.

You know, like saying the World Champion 1991 Chicago Bulls were a worse defensive team than the 2003 Washington Wizards based off of defensive rating...

COMMON SENSE FOOT, TRY IT.

[Vienceslav]

Another Kobe thread , nice.

[Hittin_Shots]

Like i said..

Kobe vs. those teams 21.6 FG / 8.4 FT
Jordan vs. his 24.9 FG / 8.1 FT

Stick Kobe in the 80's and that simply does not happen...:no:

Why keep making kobe jordan comparison threads. kobe fans love it when you do im guessing. they will never say oh youre right that proves it, is that what youre after?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You can't ignore the rules changes that let that happen....Jordan was relentless at driving to the hoop, Kobe has always been more of a jumpshooter.

The proof is in their styles of play. Exercise some common sense for a change.

You know, like saying the World Champion 1991 Chicago Bulls were a worse defensive team than the 2003 Washington Wizards based off of defensive rating...

COMMON SENSE FOOT, TRY IT.


:applause:

Thought process of a MJ mythologists

1. Compares Kobe vs Jordan vs similar paced teams and defensive ratings
2. Shows marginal differences between the two, ignores TS% because Kobe tops Jordan in it
3. Gets exposed
4. Falls back to the same defensive rating straw man argument that only fully certifies that Jordan's statistics were born out of offensive inflated era of basketball yet is too dense to realize it

[bwink23]

:applause:

Thought process of a MJ mythologists

1. Compares Kobe vs Jordan vs similar paced teams and defensive ratings
2. Shows marginal differences between the two, ignores TS% because Kobe tops Jordan in it
3. Gets exposed
4. Falls back to the same defensive rating straw man argument that only fully certifies that Jordan's statistics were born out of offensive inflated era of basketball yet is too dense to realize it


Actually, Jordan's TS% is still better than Kobe's....but that's beside the point.

COMMON SENSE FOOT....:rolleyes:

[Hittin_Shots]

:applause:

Thought process of a MJ mythologists

1. Compares Kobe vs Jordan vs similar paced teams and defensive ratings
2. Shows marginal differences between the two, ignores TS% because Kobe tops Jordan in it
3. Gets exposed
4. Falls back to the same defensive rating straw man argument that only fully certifies that Jordan's statistics were born out of offensive inflated era of basketball yet is too dense to realize it

Are you arguinng with the rule changes because you think youre right or because you dont like this bwink guy?

[Fiba basketball]

Everyone that knows that Jordan is better than Kobe and everyone that knows something aboute basketball knows that, when you ask people who never watched basketball game and dont care aboute basketball who is Jordan they will say he is the best basketball player ever . Rules in NBA today dont let players play defense and thats why you cant even compare NBA players now with past NBA and todays Euroleague players because of the quality of defense isnt the same.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Right TS% is a biased stat because it makes Jordan look bad because he of all people got not respect in a league where he was the golden calf

:roll:

I fear that in the depths of your delusions that you actually believe that

TS% makes Jordan look bad?

Age 21-30:

Jordan 59.2% TS
Kobe 55.8% TS

And MJ was doing this on about 5 more ppg, too, which makes the gap even larger. Grab a clue.

[Zackmorris]

Just what I need to continue the day.

Another Kobe vs. Jordan thread

[SlayerEnraged]

This is a snip-it of what Kobe's stats MIGHT like look if he were playing in the 80's/early 90's. This is based off of stats from teams of his era, playing at similar defensive ratings and game pace. (From 2000-2010 seasons)

Average league D-rating from 87-93 = 107.9
Average game pace from 87-93 = 99.4

Since their weren't alot of teams pulling off that high of game pace back then, i have to take the highest ones at around 107.9 D-rating.

24 teams total, 77 games total.

The teams with this criteria were:

1. Warriors - 23 games
2. Suns - 14 games
3. Nuggets - 14 games
4. Pacers - 6 games
5. Sonics - 4 games
6. Magic - 4 games
7. Kings - 4 game
8. Mavericks - 4 games
9. Wizards - 2 games
10. Cavs - 2 games

The D-rating of these teams = 107.7
average game pace = 95.7


Kobe's numbers vs. these teams:

29.4ppg on 46.9%FG at 21.6 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.7 attempts
8.4 FT's per game.
2-point conversion rate = 50.6%FG
eFG% = 50.5%
6.2 rebs, 6.0 assists, 1.5 steals


For comparisons sake, i put Jordan' numbers up vs. the comparable teams of his era who also had similar D-ratings and game pace.

22 teams, 73 games total:

Average D-rating = 107.8
average game pace = 95.7

33.2ppg on 51.7%FG at 24.9 FG's per game.
29.1%3FG at 2.0 attempts per game.
8.1 FTA
2-point conversion rate = 53.7%FG
eFG% = 52.9%
6.5 rebs, 5.4 assists, 2.8 steals


Now looking at these numbers, there are of course still discrepancies...those being the difference in game styles, particularly 3-point shooting and rule changes, and how those changes affect the perimeter play between the eras....

It's a very gray area, considering the rule changes put in place were meant to DIRECTLY IMPACT guards on the perimeter.

A couple of things that simply WOULD NOT HAPPEN for Kobe in Jordan's era...as much as some kids would like to believe it, Kobe WOULD NOT be averaging nearly 5 3's a game. There's that GAME STYLE difference. And, he wouldn't be getting all those FT attempts with that few of FG attempts. I don't see Kobe's jumpshooting style changing, considering he's always hated contact.

Go ahead on comment....i understand this is a small sample size and cherry picking at it's finest, but the differences in eras doesn't leave much data that is useful.

Not to mention...defensive rating and game pace to me, seems to be the only real stats that when put together could even come close to making an observation that isn't completely absurd.

I don't think u can consider Jordans numbers better. They're actually very similar in that comparison aside from the steals per game which woo hoo he's pick pocketing blue edwards LMAO! We'll all know what jordans assigned man does vs him individually and then we know he just sits back watchin the few ballers destroy him team :rockon:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

TS% makes Jordan look bad?

Age 21-30:

Jordan 59.2% TS
Kobe 55.8% TS

And MJ was doing this on about 5 more ppg, too, which makes the gap even larger. Grab a clue.

Hint the clue is we are talking about this specific subset of games (similar pace, similar defensive rating)

Do you see how that is very different then Age 21-30 , dissimilar pace, dissimilar defensive ratings?

:facepalm

[bwink23]

Hint the clue is we are talking about this specific subset of games (similar pace, similar defensive rating)

Do you see how that is very different then Age 21-30 , dissimilar pace, dissimilar defensive ratings?

:facepalm


Do you see how the Bulls were a better defensive team in 1991 than in 2003?

Do you see how game style affects defensive ratings? Can see how use of the shot clock can affect it?


COMMON SENSE FOOT


http://www.advancedfoottexas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/foot.png

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Do you see how the Bulls were a better defensive team in 1991 than in 2003?

Do you see how game style affects defensive ratings? Can see how use of the shot clock can affect it?


COMMON SENSE FOOT


http://www.advancedfoottexas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/foot.png

Of course I do. Offensive numbers were inflated in the 80s and 90s which resulted in high relative defensive ratings.

:confusedshrug:

[TOUCH MY BODY]

:yaohappy:

[bwink23]

Of course I do. Offensive numbers were inflated in the 80s and 90s which resulted in high relative defensive ratings.

:confusedshrug:


Inflated for WHO???

[thelucifer69]

I love how Jordan fans are so obsessed with Kobe.

I love how Kobe fans are so obsessed with Jordan.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Inflated for WHO???

Everybody who stepped on the court.

Its common sense.

Your brain only goes to mush if I point out that includes Jordan.

[bwink23]

Everybody who stepped on the court.

Its common sense.

Your brain only goes to mush if I point out that includes Jordan.


The only thing that affects that is game pace. The effective shooting %'s across both eras are nearly identical. Game pace has no impact on the number shots you take, it never did...:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

More interesting would be Jordan vs comparable playoff defensive rated teams that Kobe faced.

The Jordan mythologists like to believe that Jordan would shred the 04 Pistons because he puts up some numbers against some creampuff Finals defenses.

Here you go, bro.


Jordan, at age 28, in the 1991 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
32/6/6 on 54% shooting

Kobe, at age 28, in the 2007 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
32/6/5 on 46% shooting

Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .475%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast

Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast

Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast

Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast

Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast

Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289060

Probably the most accurate comparison.

[dh144498]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289060

Probably the most accurate comparison.

dang. Nice thread. :applause:

[NBASTATMAN]

Impossible to compare two guys who played in different era's using defensive ratings. Best thing to do is compare Kobe vs the guys that played vs the same teams that Kobe played against in the same year.

For instance

Vince Carter played Philly in 01 playoffs and so did Kobe, Someone compare Kobe's stats to Vince's stats vs that 2001 Philly team.. :roll:

Lebron and Wade played vs that old arse Celtics defense in 2010. Compare their numbers to what KObe did vs that Celtic team in the playoffs..

Spreewell played vs that 1999 Spurs team compare his numbers to Kobes' numbers vs that same team..



And then after you check all that consider Kobe was never the MAIN guy these defenses were trying to stop.. :rockon:


I guess we can start using PER again..

[DonDadda59]

People, it's 2013. Let it go already. If Bean hasn't magically transformed into Jordan by his 17th season, it's not going to happen in his 18th after a complete achilles tear (if he even comes back).

Shit was played out in 2006. Lebron is the current flavor of the month 'next'. Get with the times :lol

[NBASTATMAN]

People, it's 2013. Let it go already. If Bean hasn't magically transformed into Jordan by his 17th season, it's not going to happen in his 18th after a complete achilles tear (if he even comes back).

Shit was played out in 2006. Lebron is the current flavor of the month 'next'. Get with the times :lol


Hey Lebron and Wade have played better than Kobe has vs the defenses they have been mentioning.. You think that is a coincidence.?.:lol

[VIntageNOvel]

:applause:

goatbe > cupcake king

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hey Lebron and Wade have played better than Kobe has vs the defenses they have been mentioning.. You think that is a coincidence.?.:lol
Uh like how?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Playoff numbers against one of the few elite defenses of the 90s

1993 Knicks
99.7 DEF RATING (1st)

http://i.imgur.com/tPFxI.png

http://i.imgur.com/69dHOFl.png

:confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

Playoff numbers against one of the few elite defenses of the 90s

1993 Knicks
99.7 DEF RATING (1st)

http://i.imgur.com/tPFxI.png

http://i.imgur.com/69dHOFl.png

:confusedshrug:
Mj was battling a wrist injury that series. Still burned them for 50 tho on a bad wrist. He mostly used his playmaking and defense to impact that series. While ignoring curfews and going to casinos. Pretty gud Kobe shoots subpar when he 100% concentrated. Lol

[sportjames23]

kobe>jordan


At rape? Sure.

[sportjames23]

Lord GawdBE>Air

Aesthetically pleasing with #1 Skillset alltime>2% TS and marginal stats in the waterd down 90's


24>23



next


Kobe stans insecure like a muhfvcka. Ya'll need to worry about Lebron passing Kobe on the All-Time list before you even look to MJ.

[B4llin]

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/didnt-read-lol.gif

The fact that Kobe fans come into a thread about Kobe Vs. Jordan and don't even read it is hilarious. How do they know it makes Kobe look bad? They just know! because it's the truth hahaha

[NBASTATMAN]

Uh like how?


Lebron and Wade both played vs 2010 Celtics. Vince played vs the same 2001 sixers. And on and on and on... I think they all played much better than Kobe vs the same defenses. With less talent around them... :rockon:

[chosen_wun]

The fact that Kobe fans come into a thread about Kobe Vs. Jordan and don't even read it is hilarious. How do they know it makes Kobe look bad? They just know! because it's the truth hahaha
Ether.

[Doctor Rivers]

Ether.

lol not at all

[necya]

More interesting would be Jordan vs comparable playoff defensive rated teams that Kobe faced.

The Jordan mythologists like to believe that Jordan would shred the 04 Pistons because he puts up some numbers against some creampuff Finals defenses.

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5706/90787389.jpg

[Calabis]

More interesting would be Jordan vs comparable playoff defensive rated teams that Kobe faced.

The Jordan mythologists like to believe that Jordan would shred the 04 Pistons because he puts up some numbers against some creampuff Finals defenses.

No but Jordan wouldn't have froze out Shaq who was shooting 63%.
And he damn sure would have taken better higher percentage shots

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No but Jordan wouldn't have froze out Shaq who was shooting 63%.
And he damn sure would have taken better higher percentage shots

Shaq's use of offensive possessions was in line with his playoff play the entire year. Kobe was the 2nd most efficient Laker that series. :confusedshrug:

Jordan shot 41% against the 96 Sonics (DEF Rating 102.1) in the Finals. "Shot selection" against weak defenses is one thing, against elite ones is another. There is a reason why Jordan had a playoff shooting percentage under .400 against playoff teams with a defensive rating under 100.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5706/90787389.jpg

Fouling hard isn't good defense.... contesting without fouling is.

:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jordan, at age 28, in the 1991 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
32/6/6 on 54% shooting
Kobe, at age 28, in the 2007 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
32/6/5 on 46% shooting



Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .475%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast
Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast



Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast
Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast



Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast
Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast


Poor fanboi's. :oldlol: Nothing you do can twist reality.

[Rose'sACL]

East has had better defensive teams for a while now. among top 10 teams in league by points scored by opponent against them, 7 of them are in east. 7 of bottom 10 teams on that list are from the west. how does playing in the west not help kobe ? please answer. never take league wide defensive ratings. put more emphasis on conference wise defensive ratings as you play most games in your conference.

[juju151111]

Shaq's use of offensive possessions was in line with his playoff play the entire year. Kobe was the 2nd most efficient Laker that series. :confusedshrug:

Jordan shot 41% against the 96 Sonics (DEF Rating 102.1) in the Finals. "Shot selection" against weak defenses is one thing, against elite ones is another. There is a reason why Jordan had a playoff shooting percentage under .400 against playoff teams with a defensive rating under 100.
That like a one game sample. The other one Mj was injured. Mj has better fg% then kobe with similar defense and just because Kobe struggles with the pistons means Mj would. Prince can't guard someone with Mj speed and Mj ould of had a dominant center shooting 63% which he never had.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Shaq's use of offensive possessions was in line with his playoff play the entire year. Kobe was the 2nd most efficient Laker that series. :confusedshrug:

Jordan shot 41% against the 96 Sonics (DEF Rating 102.1) in the Finals. "Shot selection" against weak defenses is one thing, against elite ones is another. There is a reason why Jordan had a playoff shooting percentage under .400 against playoff teams with a defensive rating under 100.

OK let's compare Kobe's body of work in the Finals to Jordan's. Go.

Include time as a #1 or #2 option, FG%, W/L, Finals MVPs accumulated, etc. Adjust for opposition defensive rating, etc.

Let's start here:

How many times did Jordan allow his team to lose a home NBA Finals game after being up by 24 points at half-time?

And...

How many times did Jordan lose a deciding NBA Finals game by 39 points?

Discuss.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

OK let's compare Kobe's body of work in the Finals to Jordan's. Go.

Include time as a #1 or #2 option, FG%, W/L, Finals MVPs accumulated, etc. Adjust for opposition defensive rating, etc.

Let's start here:

How many times did Jordan allow his team to lose a home NBA Finals game after being up by 24 points at half-time?

And...

How many times did Jordan lose a deciding NBA Finals game by 39 points?

Discuss.

The same amount of times Kobe quit on a championship team to go play little league. :confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

That like a one game sample. The other one Mj was injured. Mj has better fg% then kobe with similar defense and just because Kobe struggles with the pistons means Mj would. Prince can't guard someone with Mj speed and Mj ould of had a dominant center shooting 63% which he never had.

Are we supposed to throw out Kobe's play against truly elite defenses in the playoffs because Jordan rarely faced them? :oldlol:

If that's the case we pretty much are supposed to ignore the entire first 3 peat as well as every Finals opponent.

[Round Mound]

Why compare JORDAN to Kobe? Jordan Was Alot Better.

Kobe is a Better Pure Shooter from Long Range but That is All He Was Better than Jordan at. Jordan was Better Mid Range Shooter, Post Player, Driver to the Basket, Open Court Gamer, 1 on 1 Defender, Team Defender, Rebounder, Passer, Clutcher Player, More Athletic, Faster, Quicker, More Potent, a Better Leaper etc

[Asukal]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=89536

Why bother arguing with an idiot who doesn't understand basketball, just add him to the list. :cheers: