Miami is now 11-1 without Wade, at some point you have to take that seriously

[tmacattack33]

A 3-1 spurt for a team without a star player is impressive, but it's a small sample size. Many bad teams go 3-1 in a four game span.

But to go 11-1 over 12 games is very impressive. Only the best teams in the league can accomplish such a feat.

Miami is 11-1 with this guy and is 30-16 with him. That is a gigantic difference.

[bwink23]

A 3-1 spurt for a team without a star player is impressive, but it's a small sample size. Many bad teams go 3-1 in a four game span.

But to go 11-1 over 12 games is very impressive. Only the best teams in the league can accomplish such a feat.

Miami is 11-1 with this guy and is 30-16 with him. That is a gigantic difference.


They aren't a good mesh, similar players who need the ball to dominate. The gap between the "superstar" players and next best thing isn't nearly as great as some people make it out to be.

[Alamo]

They are 1-0 without Lebron. And 1-2 without Bosh.

I say they ship Lebron and Wade and build around Bosh. It only makes sense if you look at the records.

[PTB Fan]

No.

Forget about it.

[Dave3]

They are 1-0 without Lebron. And 1-2 without Bosh.

I say they ship Lebron and Wade and build around Bosh. It only makes sense if you look at the records.
Because 11-1 (12 games) is the same as 1-0 (1 game) in a sample right? Why even post this when you know you're not making a point.

[tmacattack33]

They are 1-0 without Lebron. And 1-2 without Bosh.

I say they ship Lebron and Wade and build around Bosh. It only makes sense if you look at the records.

:biggums:

I addressed that (sample size). That was actually my main point in my opening post, which wasn't even that long. And i didn't even use big words or anything.

Reading is fundamental.

[Alamo]

Because 11-1 (12 games) is the same as 1-0 (1 game) in a sample right? Why even post this when you know you're not making a point.

Because they most likely would have won those games anyway if Wade was playing. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

They aren't better without Wade in terms of trying to win it, but this somewhat illustrates the diminishing returns you get when you put 2 stars on the same team that are so similar and don't complement each other that well.

If Wade was truly unselfish and Spo had any balls...Wade would come off the bench in the Manu role. Still play his 35 plus minutes a game when needed...and still be out there in crunch time...but it would be staggered more.

It would be perfect for this team and it would allow Bosh to get way more involved...which is exactly what this team needs. Because right now Bosh isn't having the impact he should be nor the one he's capable of. Also...a huge benefit for the role players as well. The role players never see the ball when Lebron/Wade/Bosh are out there together. They would see it more with Wade coming off the bench at the start of the game...and with the 2nd unit.

It would also allow some continuity in lineups for Miami...rather than switching shit around all the time.

Been saying this since last year. But ego and a coach that doesn't have the cred to do it is preventing it from happening. But that is the kind of radical thing this team needs.

[Dave3]

Because they most likely would have won those games anyway if Wade was playing.
Most likely? Based on what? Their significantly worse percentage with both of them on the court? You have no logic for thinking that.

The fact of the matter is the Miami Heat have issues where their talent just doesn't mesh well together and that is heavily reflected throughout their season by both record and just by seeing how uncomfortable they are with each other.

[nba_55]

Seems like Wade is not playing against garbage teams anymore. So, these last wins dont matter.

[Alamo]

Seems like Wade is not playing against garbage teams anymore. So, these last wins dont matter.

And a majority of the teams they beat without Wade, they beat with him as well.

[D-Wade316]

A 3-1 spurt for a team without a star player is impressive, but it's a small sample size. Many bad teams go 3-1 in a four game span.

But to go 11-1 over 12 games is very impressive. Only the best teams in the league can accomplish such a feat.

Miami is 11-1 with this guy and is 30-16 with him. That is a gigantic difference.
Bookmarked for future neg.

[BlueandGold]

So this will make it even worse for Lebron when he loses WITH wade and bosh?

[knickswin]

it's sad because Wade can be such a joy to watch and should be carving out his own legacy with his own team instead of being in lebron's shadow.

they're such a bad fit.

maybe one of the bottom feeder teams should go bold and trade for wade and amar'e. it'd be interesting. those two kind of make sense together too.

[tmacattack33]

And a majority of the teams they beat without Wade, they beat with him as well.

You and nba_55 are making it seem like Wade only plays against the Bobcats and Pistons.

Miami's opponents without Wade for the 12 games:

Charlotte
Detroit (twice)
Philly (twice)
Cleveland
Milwaukee
LAL
SAS
Nets
Hawks
Pacers

Total record: 334 - 371 (47.4 %)

Not as bad as you say it is.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can you recap the 2011 Finals for me?

[tmacattack33]

You and nba_55 are making it seem like Wade only plays against the Bobcats and Pistons.

Miami's opponents without Wade for the 12 games:

Charlotte
Detroit (twice)
Philly (twice)
Cleveland
Milwaukee
LAL
SAS
Nets
Hawks
Pacers

Total record: 334 - 371 (47.4 %)

Not as bad as you say it is.

Whoops, I made a little mistake there.

That 334-371 record for those 12 opponents includes the 11-1 record Miami went against those 12 opponents, which it should not.

Thus, the actual record for their 12 opponents is 333-360 (48.1%)

[game3524]

It just highlights how redundant Wade and Bron really are together. In a lot of ways they remind me of AI/Melo where they can play together.....but they don't each other better.

Bron should have went to Chicago or NY, while Wade stays in Miami and teams with Bosh

[Whoah10115]

A 3-1 spurt for a team without a star player is impressive, but it's a small sample size. Many bad teams go 3-1 in a four game span.

But to go 11-1 over 12 games is very impressive. Only the best teams in the league can accomplish such a feat.

Miami is 11-1 with this guy and is 30-16 with him. That is a gigantic difference.



Absolutely...in the playoffs...


Call me when that happens.

[RedBlackAttack]

It just highlights how redundant Wade and Bron really are together. In a lot of ways they remind me of AI/Melo where they can play together.....but they don't each other better.

Bron should have went to Chicago or NY, while Wade stays in Miami and teams with Bosh
A Rose/James combo would be even less sensible than a Wade/James combo when it comes to how their games fit together. Why Chicago?

I agree with the first but of your post.... But I don't see how you could recognize that and then, in the next sentence, endorse James in Chicago.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

what is the avg winning pct of the opponents played without Wade?

[PJR]

Have any of you gumps actually seen opponents in those 11 games?

[tmacattack33]

what is the avg winning pct of the opponents played without Wade?

48.1%

[tmacattack33]

Absolutely...in the playoffs...


Call me when that happens.

No team has had an 11-1 stretch in the playoffs since the Lakers in 2001.

That would be a historically great stretch in the playoffs, and would put whoever did it in the greatest team of all time debate. And I am obviously not saying the Heat without Wade are one of the greatest teams of all time.

[Dictator]

2011 Playoffs? :oldlol: You people forget quick.

And dont even think about posting stats we all know who played better. You will need D-Wade.

[tmacattack33]

2011 Playoffs? :oldlol: You people forget quick.

And dont even think about posting stats we all know who played better. You will need D-Wade.

Miami did not go 11-1 in any stretch during the playoffs in 2011.

And during their best stretch (the first three rounds), Lebron was two times the player Wade was.

[BGriffin's Dad]

trade Wade for Kobe

[Dictator]

Miami did not go 11-1 in any stretch during the playoffs in 2011.

And during their best stretch (the first three rounds), Lebron was two times the player Wade was.


:facepalm You guys trying to write dwade off but you're gonna be loving him during the playoffs.

[flipogb]

not saying Orlando would have taken it , but they should have tried to trade Wade for Howard

[tmacattack33]

:facepalm You guys trying to write dwade off but you're gonna be loving him during the playoffs.

This is not about Wade being a bad player. He was top 5 last year and is top 10 this year. Furthermore, two years ago he was top 3...and in 2009 he was maybe top 1. He's great.

But him and Lebron don't go together and I just hope that Riley is at least looking at the possibility of trading Wade (or Lebron, but Lebron is younger) for a guy who would compliment Lebron. A guard who can shoot would compliment Lebron, as well as a good big man of almost any type.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

This is not about Wade being a bad player. He was top 5 last year and is top 10 this year. Furthermore, two years ago he was top 3...and in 2009 he was maybe top 1. He's great.

But him and Lebron don't go together and I just hope that Riley is at least looking at the possibility of trading Wade (or Lebron, but Lebron is younger) for a guy who would compliment Lebron. A guard who can shoot would compliment Lebron, as well as a good big man of almost any type.
DWade can shoot. Chalmers can shoot. Lebron is extremely fortunate to have those teammates.
They need to talk Kaman into taking a major salary cut.

[vegasbigshots]

They are 1-0 without Lebron. And 1-2 without Bosh.

I say they ship Lebron and Wade and build around Bosh. It only makes sense if you look at the records.

Agreed... makes too much sense. :lol

[detroitdogg]

Miami did not go 11-1 in any stretch during the playoffs in 2011.

And during their best stretch (the first three rounds), Lebron was two times the player Wade was.
At the end of the 2nd round their numbers were identical. I mean, exactly the same points (im not talking per game, im talking overall) 2-3 rebounds apart, 2-3 assists apart, blocks and steals were exactly the same. Wade had a bad series vs Chicago and never plays well vs them, but during the 1st 2 rounds, look the shyt up. Across the board they were not seperated by no more than 3 in anything, Wade led Bron in some and Bron led Wade in some.

I know this cause me and my nyggas checked it out after the Celtics series, so fukk what you heard, Wade killed in the finals and Bron killed in the eastern confrence finals. Fukk outta here with the blatant lies.

[tmacattack33]

At the end of the 2nd round their numbers were identical. I mean, exactly the same points (im not talking per game, im talking overall) 2-3 rebounds apart, 2-3 assists apart, blocks and steals were exactly the same. Wade had a bad series vs Chicago and never plays well vs them, but during the 1st 2 rounds, look the shyt up. Across the board they were not seperated by no more than 3 in anything, Wade led Bron in some and Bron led Wade in some.

I know this cause me and my nyggas checked it out after the Celtics series, so fukk what you heard, Wade killed in the finals and Bron killed in the eastern confrence finals. Fukk outta here with the blatant lies.

Except that Lebron was the one hitting the shots in the clutch against Boston, and he is a better defender than Wade which does not show up in your little box scores.

[tmacattack33]

DWade can shoot. Chalmers can shoot. Lebron is extremely fortunate to have those teammates.
They need to talk Kaman into taking a major salary cut.


D. Wade cannot shoot long range shots.

[gengiskhan]

LBJ = MVP looks like

Durant needs to turn it up a notch now & get atleast 2 x 40 pt games or else Wesbrook will walk away with some cruicial MVP votes costing Durant the MVP.

[detroitdogg]

Except that Lebron was the one hitting the shots in the clutch against Boston, and he is a better defender than Wade which does not show up in your little box scores.
Fukk outta here with this bullshyt ass better defender shyt. Bron is a more versatile defender and thats it. Wade is a much better on ball defender, watch a fukkin game. Against Boston the other day, Pierce could do nothing against Wade, he could not post him up, could not shoot over him, nothing.

Im tired of dudes fabricating shyt, watch the fukkin game. Because Bron can guard more positions (nevermind the fact that bigs embarrass dude down low on a nightly basis) does not mean he is a better defender, he does not shut nobody down. Wade guarded Rose more than Bron against the Bulls last playoffs, but Bron got all the credit for defending him in the 4th, as if Wade didnt guard him 75% of the game. Watch a fukkin game and stop listening to ESPN bro.

[che guevara]

DWade can shoot. Chalmers can shoot. Lebron is extremely fortunate to have those teammates.
They need to talk Kaman into taking a major salary cut.
:oldlol: Wade can shoot? Dude is below average from 9-23 feet and well below average behind the 3 point line. Odd coming from a Laker fan, if this was in a Kobe comparison you would be calling Wade a bricklayer.

And I do think Miami would be better off without Wade or Lebron - one or the other. Look at these splits from last year's playoffs for example:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1151834&start=465#p31311188

With Wade on the court in the playoffs, Lebron averages 20.9 points per 36 minutes on 54.4 TS%. With Wade OFF the court, he turned into a scoring machine, averaging 35.7 points per 36 on 61.1 TS%.

Now the volume decrease was expected, but the efficiency dropoff was not, especially not a ridiculous -6.7 TS%. The evidence really suggests that Wade and Lebron on the court together just hinder each other's games.

[G-Funk]

Wade is worthless

[SESSEL15]

They will probably still end up wininng a chip or two. Too much star power on that roster for it to not happen.

You can't trade Wade, he got you the chip in 06.

I say trade LeBron for Howard. That is the most fair trade you will get.

Bosh and Howard is the best front court in the NBA .

[Juges8932]

They aren't better without Wade in terms of trying to win it, but this somewhat illustrates the diminishing returns you get when you put 2 stars on the same team that are so similar and don't complement each other that well.

If Wade was truly unselfish and Spo had any balls...Wade would come off the bench in the Manu role. Still play his 35 plus minutes a game when needed...and still be out there in crunch time...but it would be staggered more.

It would be perfect for this team and it would allow Bosh to get way more involved...which is exactly what this team needs. Because right now Bosh isn't having the impact he should be nor the one he's capable of. Also...a huge benefit for the role players as well. The role players never see the ball when Lebron/Wade/Bosh are out there together. They would see it more with Wade coming off the bench at the start of the game...and with the 2nd unit.

It would also allow some continuity in lineups for Miami...rather than switching shit around all the time.

Been saying this since last year. But ego and a coach that doesn't have the cred to do it is preventing it from happening. But that is the kind of radical thing this team needs.

I agree with what you're saying. But it's ridiculous, IMO, to expect one of the best players in the league to come off the bench, lol. I agree that it would probably make Miami better overall and Bosh more effective. I just don't see any player of Wade's caliber able to allow themselves to be put in that role. He would never be in MVP contention if that happened, even if he deserved it because he would be a "Bench" player, lol.

[Juges8932]

At the end of the 2nd round their numbers were identical. I mean, exactly the same points (im not talking per game, im talking overall) 2-3 rebounds apart, 2-3 assists apart, blocks and steals were exactly the same. Wade had a bad series vs Chicago and never plays well vs them, but during the 1st 2 rounds, look the shyt up. Across the board they were not seperated by no more than 3 in anything, Wade led Bron in some and Bron led Wade in some.

I know this cause me and my nyggas checked it out after the Celtics series, so fukk what you heard, Wade killed in the finals and Bron killed in the eastern confrence finals. Fukk outta here with the blatant lies.


Fukk outta here with this bullshyt ass better defender shyt. Bron is a more versatile defender and thats it. Wade is a much better on ball defender, watch a fukkin game. Against Boston the other day, Pierce could do nothing against Wade, he could not post him up, could not shoot over him, nothing.

Im tired of dudes fabricating shyt, watch the fukkin game. Because Bron can guard more positions (nevermind the fact that bigs embarrass dude down low on a nightly basis) does not mean he is a better defender, he does not shut nobody down. Wade guarded Rose more than Bron against the Bulls last playoffs, but Bron got all the credit for defending him in the 4th, as if Wade didnt guard him 75% of the game. Watch a fukkin game and stop listening to ESPN bro.

:cheers: Yes, thank you. I was going to post this.


This thread has gone from a seemingly neutral post to encourage intellectual debate to one reeking of agenda.

[HEAT111]

The problem isn't about meshing, its about knowing where to put it.

[Whoah10115]

No team has had an 11-1 stretch in the playoffs since the Lakers in 2001.

That would be a historically great stretch in the playoffs, and would put whoever did it in the greatest team of all time debate. And I am obviously not saying the Heat without Wade are one of the greatest teams of all time.



Literal much?

[EnoughSaid]

Miami without LeBron and only Wade and Bosh would be the same thing. Of course having one less ball-dominant player helps out LeBron and Wade. However, without one, they're not getting past the Celtics, Bulls or even Orlando. :no:

It worked really well last year... until LeBron decided to play hot potato in the Finals.

[DMAVS41]

I agree with what you're saying. But it's ridiculous, IMO, to expect one of the best players in the league to come off the bench, lol. I agree that it would probably make Miami better overall and Bosh more effective. I just don't see any player of Wade's caliber able to allow themselves to be put in that role. He would never be in MVP contention if that happened, even if he deserved it because he would be a "Bench" player, lol.

Yea, but that is kind of the problem though. Manu, on a different team...playing 35 plus minutes a game and starting would be thought of as a much better player than he is now...even though it wouldn't be true.

Manu has sacrificed a lot of individual praise and accolades for winning. Why won't Lebron or Wade do the same thing?

They came together to put winning first...did they not? And Wade will never get MVP contention ever again playing with Lebron...so that shouldn't matter at all.

I actually think it would be kind of cool. I think a lot of people would praise Wade for his selflessness and team first attitude.

But of course I understand what you are saying and that it likely won't happen. But it would fix a lot of their issues and I have no doubts that it would make them a better team.

[Pharcyde]

Because 11-1 (12 games) is the same as 1-0 (1 game) in a sample right? Why even post this when you know you're not making a point.

And 12 games is the same sample size as 46 games with Wade?

[nashwade]

wow wow wow hold on.. who did Miami beat to get 10-1 without Wade? the elite Bobcats?

[bluechox2]

wow wow wow hold on.. who did Miami beat to get 10-1 without Wade? the elite Bobcats?

Indiana
Atlanta
New Jersey
San Antonio
Lakers
Philly
Milwaukee (L)
Cleavland
Detroit
Philly
Detroit
Charlotte

[SacJB Shady]

This is where you guys are wrong. Lebron cannot have a shot to win it all without Wade. As far as not complimenting Wade, this is not true when you add in defense. What makes Miami tough in the playoffs is their defense and they need both of them.

[El Kabong]

Indiana
Atlanta
New Jersey
San Antonio
Lakers
Philly
Milwaukee (L)
Cleavland
Detroit
Philly
Detroit
Charlotte
Apart from LAL and SAS, beating those teams without Wade isn't all that impressive.

[madmax]

Yea, but that is kind of the problem though. Manu, on a different team...playing 35 plus minutes a game and starting would be thought of as a much better player than he is now...even though it wouldn't be true.

Manu has sacrificed a lot of individual praise and accolades for winning. Why won't Lebron or Wade do the same thing?

They came together to put winning first...did they not? And Wade will never get MVP contention ever again playing with Lebron...so that shouldn't matter at all.

I actually think it would be kind of cool. I think a lot of people would praise Wade for his selflessness and team first attitude.

But of course I understand what you are saying and that it likely won't happen. But it would fix a lot of their issues and I have no doubts that it would make them a better team.

exactly...
Manu knows that in order to win you always have to sacrifice your personal glory and stats. Why can't Wade do the same when he is entering twilights of his career too? Spurs should be a model to Miami team how it needs to get done in order to win the chip, yet Heat are trying the same model, which is obviously flawed and non-practical. It boggles my mind really:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

exactly...
Manu knows that in order to win you always have to sacrifice your personal glory and stats. Why can't Wade do the same when he is entering twilights of his career too? Spurs should be a model to Miami team how it needs to get done in order to win the chip, yet Heat are trying the same model, which is obviously flawed and non-practical. It boggles my mind really:confusedshrug:

Yep. They would be so much better. Hell, Wade's stats might actually be better as well. He probably end up playing roughly the same amount of minutes and would maybe even get more shots up.

[Dave3]

And 12 games is the same sample size as 46 games with Wade?
It's still a hell of a lot closer than 12 vs. 1....

[senelcoolidge]

They play different games. One is a power forward the other a small forward. Griffin would give James a hard time in the paint. James would give Griffin a hard time outside of the paint.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade and Lebron aren't a natural fit together, but without Wade, I doubt they'd have been the favorite heading into this season, and they end up with a talented roster, but far from the most talented in the league, which they are with Wade. And without Wade, Bosh moves up to number 2 option and they now have an added weakness without much of a 3rd scorer. That weakness may not be exposed in the regular season, but it most likely would in the playoffs. Don't forget that the '09 Cavs didn't show their weaknesses in the regular season either.

And earlier in the season, Lebron and Wade were playing better together. Part of that was that they were playing much more up-tempo, granted, the odds of them keeping that up in the playoffs wasn't good as things tend to slow down, but they should try to get back to that more.

Either way, despite some concerning habits, I'm not overly concerned with Miami's regular season, especially since I've seen teams where anything less than a title is considered a monumental failure often not show up in the regular season, not to mention this is a particularly strange season . It was obvious that they'd win enough to have a good playoff seed.

They have a more talented roster than the team last year who most likely would've won last year if not for perhaps the most surprising choke job in Finals history.

With that being said, I do think they'd benefit greatly from a superior coach and I'm not confident that they'll win a title like they should because of last year's finals, but not really due to what I've seen this season.

For reference, here are some championship teams without their star second options for extended(10+ game) stretches

1983 Sixers: 8-2 without Dr. J

1986 Celtics: 11-3 without Kevin McHale (Boston also won games that McHale only played 12 and 7 minutes in so they was essentially 13-3 without him.)

1989 Pistons: 9-4 without Dumars (this came prior to the Aguirre trade as well, and they were better with Aguirre than Dantley, though Dantley was the 2nd option when he was there, Dumars was the 2nd best player on this team)

1998 Bulls: 26-12 without Pippen

2000 Lakers: 12-4 without Kobe (1 of these losses came with Shaq suspended, so really 12-3)

2001 Lakers: 11-3 without Kobe

2008 Celtics: 9-2 without Garnett (KG was actually the best player on this team)

2010 Lakers: 11-6 without Gasol

How many of these teams do you think would've won or come close to the same success without their 2nd options?

Look at Chicago this season, they have a great record with Rose. Despite the fact that I said last year that Chicago would've had a shot at 50 wins or close without him, it's also not something to overreact to. Like Miami without Wade, Chicago's ceiling without Rose is a lot lower.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

They aren't better without Wade in terms of trying to win it, but this somewhat illustrates the diminishing returns you get when you put 2 stars on the same team that are so similar and don't complement each other that well.

If Wade was truly unselfish and Spo had any balls...Wade would come off the bench in the Manu role. Still play his 35 plus minutes a game when needed...and still be out there in crunch time...but it would be staggered more.

It would be perfect for this team and it would allow Bosh to get way more involved...which is exactly what this team needs. Because right now Bosh isn't having the impact he should be nor the one he's capable of. Also...a huge benefit for the role players as well. The role players never see the ball when Lebron/Wade/Bosh are out there together. They would see it more with Wade coming off the bench at the start of the game...and with the 2nd unit.

It would also allow some continuity in lineups for Miami...rather than switching shit around all the time.

Been saying this since last year. But ego and a coach that doesn't have the cred to do it is preventing it from happening. But that is the kind of radical thing this team needs.
I don't think I can ever imagine Wade doing that. You can't expect a top 3 player to come off the bench, Wade and Manu are in totally different tiers.

I was always wondering why Manu came off the bench. Is Manu and Parker like the same situation as LeBron and Wade, where they don't complement each other well? Because I seriously wouldn't start George Hill, Danny Green, or Gary Neal over Manu.

[Lebron23]

I don't think I can ever imagine Wade doing that. You can't expect a top 3 player to come off the bench, Wade and Manu are in totally different tiers.

I was always wondering why Manu came off the bench. Is Manu and Parker like the same situation as LeBron and Wade, where they don't complement each other well? Because I seriously wouldn't start George Hill, Danny Green, or Gary Neal over Manu.

Spurs needs a good scorer off the bench. Manu play starter's minutes. He's also one of the most productive scorers off the bench.

[miggyme1]

That record without dwade is very misleading.just like the bulls record without rose is.ill tell u wats really the eye opener stat.wade is averaging a measely 22.5 points per game this season.dats not vintage dwade.for this team to actually be considered title contenders he sould be somewhere around 26ppg because all of their scoring comes from bosh,wade,and james.with wades ppg being lower than usual this year its wats been causin them their slumps.wade hasnt worked at his game at all.he is abismal from deep.midrange game is inconsistent.the only thing he really has in as arsenal is his post game which imo is second best for a sg behind kobes.but wade has to improve.he has almost became a blake griffin type player.his only good plays are the highlight plays

[Bigsmoke]

LeBron been part of successful regular season teams before.

Its it shocking that LeBron is winning games with Bosh? No Wade equals more room for LBJ and Bosh out on the court to do their thing.

Those guys in ESPN already pointed out that Bosh's drives and post positioning are normally Wade cuts or drives.

[I.R.Beast]

Yep. They would be so much better. Hell, Wade's stats might actually be better as well. He probably end up playing roughly the same amount of minutes and would maybe even get more shots up.
You guys are crazy...wade aint coming off the bench and he should....brint lebron off the bench.

[LakersReign]

You guys are crazy...wade aint coming off the bench and he should....brint lebron off the bench.

Lebron can't come off the bench cuz then he'll be a role player, and Lebronytes will no longer be able to compare him to Jordan. So their answer to the Heat's problems is that a 30 year old Wade MUST defer to a 28 year old Lebron, who never had a complete game to begin with. Then they have the nerve to sit there, with a straight face and claim to know about basketball:facepalm

[RoseCity07]

The reason Wade and Lebron work well is because they both play defense.

Miami is not better without Wade. I think Miami needs a better coach that can figure out a way for Bosh and Wade to contribute more to the offense on a regular basis. Spolstra needs to go.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think I can ever imagine Wade doing that. You can't expect a top 3 player to come off the bench, Wade and Manu are in totally different tiers.

I was always wondering why Manu came off the bench. Is Manu and Parker like the same situation as LeBron and Wade, where they don't complement each other well? Because I seriously wouldn't start George Hill, Danny Green, or Gary Neal over Manu.

No...its not about that. Its about doing what is best for the team. I love Wade. Like him a lot more than Lebron. Have argued for years here that Wade is absolutely on the same tier as a player as Kobe and Lebron.

I said Wade simply because he's less durable and less capable of playing as many minutes as Lebron is. Lebron is a freak....he's had like 1 injury his entire career and rarely misses a game. He's also even more of a rhythm player than Wade. Lebron would not be able to come off the bench.

I could see Wade doing that. And as much as I think Wade is great...prime Manu was slightly, if at all, worse than Wade. Prime Manu could have easily averaged 25/5/5 in a featured starting role on a lot of teams. Easily.

That is kind of my point. Even though it wouldn't be true, Manu would be thought of as a much better player if he got the chance to really showcase his abilities for more minutes in the star role. And make no mistake, he was a star level player in his prime when healthy. But Manu cares about winning more...and that is why he comes off the bench and does whatever the coach asks him.

You even saw this against the Knicks. The big 3 took all the shots to start the game. How on earth can you expect other players on the team to do anything if all the shots are taken from 3 players...especially to start a game. It freezes out guys like Chalmers....who needs to be more involved from the beginning.

And Wade is not a top 3 player this year.

[gabeh1018]

someone suggested before that the team would benefit more from Wade coming off the bench and I completely agree. He could still average 35+ minutes. A mentioned before, it would allow the role players to have more opportunities to find their shots and Bosh would benefit greatly by having more of an impact we all know he can provide. Anyone who watched the 2008 Olympics when Wade was the first player off the bench knows the impact Wade can have coming off the bench. He was instant offense and led the team in scoring. That doesn't mean they don't play well or succeed starting the 3 together since they did make the finals last year, but this rotation may serve the team better.

[Lebron23]

someone suggested before that the team would benefit more from Wade coming off the bench and I completely agree. He could still average 35+ minutes. A mentioned before, it would allow the role players to have more opportunities to find their shots and Bosh would benefit greatly by having more of an impact we all know he can provide. Anyone who watched the 2008 Olympics when Wade was the first player off the bench knows the impact Wade can have coming off the bench. He was instant offense and led the team in scoring. That doesn't mean they don't play well or succeed starting the 3 together since they did make the finals last year, but this rotation may serve the team better.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[chairman]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Lebron should come off the bench, he'd be a great role player on another team. Maybe hit clutch shots from time to time. There is too much pressure being a starter for Lebron. Just slowly ease him into the rotation to where he can mentally handle and win you some games

[Lebron23]

Lebron should come off the bench, he'd be a great role player on another team. Maybe hit clutch shots from time to time. There is too much pressure being a starter for Lebron. Just slowly ease him into the rotation to where he can mentally handle and win you some games


2011-2012 NBA MVP

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[chairman]

2011-2012 NBA MVP

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Oh you want to talk about Durant now? You can just use your other account for that

[dunksby]

Actually Lebron coming off the bench would not be a bad idea, he would average the same minutes but tear shit up coming off the bench, he is used to playing with scrubs i.e. his Cavs days.

[Simple Jack]

Lebron can't come off the bench cuz then he'll be a role player, and Lebronytes will no longer be able to compare him to Jordan. So their answer to the Heat's problems is that a 30 year old Wade MUST defer to a 28 year old Lebron, who never had a complete game to begin with. Then they have the nerve to sit there, with a straight face and claim to know about basketball:facepalm

Do you realize literally everyone on this site hates you/has no respect for you? They all laugh at you because of how big of an idiot you come across as in every single one of your posts. How you throw around accusations of people not knowing about basketball is beyond me. Do EVERYONE a favor and shut the **** up.

[chairman]

Actually Lebron coming off the bench would not be a bad idea, he would average the same minutes but tear shit up coming off the bench, he is used to playing with scrubs i.e. his Cavs days.
:applause: The whole team is filled with scrubs. Luckily the heat have bosh or else they'd be a terrible team. Lebron could do some much more off the bench, he would finally realize his full potential as a role player deferring to Wade.

Cole
Jones
Battier
James
Turiaf

:bowdown: Almost as good as The Bench Mob

[madmax]

Do you realize literally everyone on this site hates you/has no respect for you? They all laugh at you because of how big of an idiot you come across as in every single one of your posts. How you throw around accusations of people not knowing about basketball is beyond me. Do EVERYONE a favor and shut the **** up.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m21nfvV4W11rtn4p0o1_400.gif

[LakersReign]

Do you realize literally everyone on this site hates you/has no respect for you? They all laugh at you because of how big of an idiot you come across as in every single one of your posts. How you throw around accusations of people not knowing about basketball is beyond me. Do EVERYONE a favor and shut the **** up.



Lebron can't come off the bench cuz then he'll be a role player, and Lebronytes will no longer be able to compare him to Jordan. So their answer to the Heat's problems is that a 30 year old Wade MUST defer to a 28 year old Lebron, who never had a complete game to begin with. Then they have the nerve to sit there, with a straight face and claim to know about basketball:facepalm

You mad as hell cuz the truth really does hurts.....doesn't it?:roll:

[D-Wade316]

That record without dwade is very misleading.just like the bulls record without rose is.ill tell u wats really the eye opener stat.wade is averaging a measely 22.5 points per game this season.dats not vintage dwade.for this team to actually be considered title contenders he sould be somewhere around 26ppg because all of their scoring comes from bosh,wade,and james.with wades ppg being lower than usual this year its wats been causin them their slumps.wade hasnt worked at his game at all.he is abismal from deep.midrange game is inconsistent.the only thing he really has in as arsenal is his post game which imo is second best for a sg behind kobes.but wade has to improve.he has almost became a blake griffin type player.his only good plays are the highlight plays
Not really. It has been Wade's injuries that lead to the heat's slump. Wade scoring at 22.5ppg is misleading because on a per-36min, he's right around his career average. He's just the same player, playing on less minutes.

[Apogee]

I think that one of them coming off the bench would help the team immensely. Each would have his own unit and the constant attack would be relentless. The fact of the matter is that I don't think that either one of them has it in them to come off the bench.
Bosh would be utilized more and be able to get more points. Fact of the matter is that they get in each others way and SPO doesn't have plays for them. IF they each had their own unit with set plays things could get done. Their egos wont allow it though, which i think hurts the team. Everyone is obsessed with being the "leader" or whatever but its about what is best for your team.

[Juges8932]

Yea, but that is kind of the problem though. Manu, on a different team...playing 35 plus minutes a game and starting would be thought of as a much better player than he is now...even though it wouldn't be true.

Manu has sacrificed a lot of individual praise and accolades for winning. Why won't Lebron or Wade do the same thing?

They came together to put winning first...did they not? And Wade will never get MVP contention ever again playing with Lebron...so that shouldn't matter at all.

I actually think it would be kind of cool. I think a lot of people would praise Wade for his selflessness and team first attitude.

But of course I understand what you are saying and that it likely won't happen. But it would fix a lot of their issues and I have no doubts that it would make them a better team.

Oh, I completely agree that I think it is retarded. But perception is everything. Doesn't matter if it is an accurate reflection of reality or not.

Well, I think Manu's position is different from Wade/LBJ. Wade/LBJ have both been the man on their own teams for so long. The Spurs has always been Duncan's team. The Heat has always been Wade's team, but now it is shared. And I think Wade coming off the bench would basically be saying here LBJ, this is your team now, lol. And even if he deserved it, I don't see him getting FMVP over LBJ in that case. I think he would have a hard time getting it now because of how much the media wants LBJ to win a championship/FMVP, lol.

I think it would be cool too. I think they could perhaps have both of them start and then maybe have a substitution like 3-4 minutes into the game. It might mess up rhythm and such though. Not saying it is a great strategy, but maybe something to avoid making either player feel insulted.


No...its not about that. Its about doing what is best for the team. I love Wade. Like him a lot more than Lebron. Have argued for years here that Wade is absolutely on the same tier as a player as Kobe and Lebron.

I said Wade simply because he's less durable and less capable of playing as many minutes as Lebron is. Lebron is a freak....he's had like 1 injury his entire career and rarely misses a game. He's also even more of a rhythm player than Wade. Lebron would not be able to come off the bench.

I could see Wade doing that. And as much as I think Wade is great...prime Manu was slightly, if at all, worse than Wade. Prime Manu could have easily averaged 25/5/5 in a featured starting role on a lot of teams. Easily.

That is kind of my point. Even though it wouldn't be true, Manu would be thought of as a much better player if he got the chance to really showcase his abilities for more minutes in the star role. And make no mistake, he was a star level player in his prime when healthy. But Manu cares about winning more...and that is why he comes off the bench and does whatever the coach asks him.

You even saw this against the Knicks. The big 3 took all the shots to start the game. How on earth can you expect other players on the team to do anything if all the shots are taken from 3 players...especially to start a game. It freezes out guys like Chalmers....who needs to be more involved from the beginning.

And Wade is not a top 3 player this year.

Well said. :applause:

[donald_trump]

Wade and Lebron aren't a natural fit together, but without Wade, I doubt they'd have been the favorite heading into this season, and they end up with a talented roster, but far from the most talented in the league, which they are with Wade. And without Wade, Bosh moves up to number 2 option and they now have an added weakness without much of a 3rd scorer. That weakness may not be exposed in the regular season, but it most likely would in the playoffs. Don't forget that the '09 Cavs didn't show their weaknesses in the regular season either.

And earlier in the season, Lebron and Wade were playing better together. Part of that was that they were playing much more up-tempo, granted, the odds of them keeping that up in the playoffs wasn't good as things tend to slow down, but they should try to get back to that more.

Either way, despite some concerning habits, I'm not overly concerned with Miami's regular season, especially since I've seen teams where anything less than a title is considered a monumental failure often not show up in the regular season, not to mention this is a particularly strange season . It was obvious that they'd win enough to have a good playoff seed.

They have a more talented roster than the team last year who most likely would've won last year if not for perhaps the most surprising choke job in Finals history.

With that being said, I do think they'd benefit greatly from a superior coach and I'm not confident that they'll win a title like they should because of last year's finals, but not really due to what I've seen this season.

For reference, here are some championship teams without their star second options for extended(10+ game) stretches

1983 Sixers: 8-2 without Dr. J

1986 Celtics: 11-3 without Kevin McHale (Boston also won games that McHale only played 12 and 7 minutes in so they was essentially 13-3 without him.)

1989 Pistons: 9-4 without Dumars (this came prior to the Aguirre trade as well, and they were better with Aguirre than Dantley, though Dantley was the 2nd option when he was there, Dumars was the 2nd best player on this team)

1998 Bulls: 26-12 without Pippen

2000 Lakers: 12-4 without Kobe (1 of these losses came with Shaq suspended, so really 12-3)

2001 Lakers: 11-3 without Kobe

2008 Celtics: 9-2 without Garnett (KG was actually the best player on this team)

2010 Lakers: 11-6 without Gasol

How many of these teams do you think would've won or come close to the same success without their 2nd options?

Look at Chicago this season, they have a great record with Rose. Despite the fact that I said last year that Chicago would've had a shot at 50 wins or close without him, it's also not something to overreact to. Like Miami without Wade, Chicago's ceiling without Rose is a lot lower.

nice post.

they're hardly redundant as people say.

out of the 12 teams they played, the only ones they would have had trouble with were san antonio and lakers. playing at home against the lakers resulted in a win. and they played san antonio while they weren't at their peak and were struggling with injuries. so essentially they should have won all of those games anyway.

[tmacattack33]

Wade (or Lebron) coming off the bench could change things in the regular season, but it won't do much in the playoffs.

In the playoffs, your top 5 guys are out there for a large part of the game and they will definitely be in the game together for the last 8 minutes or so of the game.

The Heat are going to have to learn how to work with Lebron and Wade on the court at the same time if they want to win in the playoffs, period.

[baccano]

It isn't necessary to either wade nor lebron to come off the bench, because they effectively one of them is always on court, so for example, lebron ends 1st quarter playing alone with role players, then wade starts the second with bosh.

Spo changes this sometimes, but they finish and start applying all big 3, which is correct. The best defensive lineup for the heat is with the big 3 plus miller/battier/haslem (2 of the 3), but they have to be motived to really see their potential.

They are basically "coasting" tight now, but playoff time, we'll their defense with the big 3 click big time.