The Bigger Freak Of Nature

[Plat]

Wilt
Shaq
Lebron

[bwink23]

Wilt and it isn't even damn close.

[WillyJakk]

Shaq and it isn't even damn close.

[Inactive]

Probably Wilt. Shaq might've been just as gifted, but Wilt kept himself in better condition.

[t-rex]

Not arguable.

Wilt Chamberlin


Wilt was such a freakish athlete that at 7'2 he was a legit track and field star. I believe at one point he was actually recruited to run track and field for the U.S. Olympic team. I think at one time he even held several track and field NCAA records while in college at Kansas.


http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/wilt-track.jpg


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/nba/1999/chamberlain/wilt2.jpg

[WillyJakk]

Probably Wilt. Shaq might've been just as gifted, but Wilt kept himself in better condition.

I don't think about "conditioning" as being a requirement for freak of nature, at least the way I interpreted the OP's comparison which I took as purely physical and maybe athletic tools in comparison to body size etc.

If conditioning were a requirement then Dennis Rodman wins this EASILY seeing as he could drink/ get high and party his ass off then come grab 20+ rebs all while running the floor the entire game.

[ralph_i_el]

They are all freaks in different ways.

I think LeBron might be the most athletic man alive right now the way he moves at his size

[bwink23]

Shaq wouldn't last 3 seasons playing at Wilt's pace and minutes-loggage without blowing out his ACL....

BOOK THAT

[Stern]

Wilt

[Whoah10115]

Freak of nature?




Shaq, period.





We're not talking who's more athletic. Freak of nature is Shaquille O'Neal, in every possible way.




That's a big ass man and he's legit thick. He was never in shape and never injury prone. He played for 19 years, as a fat man who didn't strengthen the body he had.



Shaq.

[BGriffin's Dad]

http://i.imgur.com/he9HP.jpg

[Inactive]

I don't think about "conditioning" as being a requirement for freak of nature, at least the way I interpreted the OP's comparison which I took as purely physical and maybe athletic tools in comparison to body size etc.
What I meant was that if Shaq worked as hard on staying at peak physical condition, he might've been like Wilt. Not just that Wilt had better stamina, although that's a part of it. Wilt was also more mobile, ran faster, and jumped higher. Both could overpower anyone in a 1 on 1 situation, but I would guess Shaq was probably a little stronger.

[Celtic_Pride]

Lebron

Has the size of a Center and the quickness of a point guard

Freak!

[Westbrook0]

Oh here we go with that Wilt shit again, unless that one poster was just being sarcastic?

At 7'4", Wilt was actually recruited by the U.S. to be the captain of the men's water polo team for the 1968 Pan-American Games.

He was also a professional bobsledder, the best in the world actually.

[alwaysunny]

Tell me when Wilt did this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3AaISFc-A

[SleepyCorpse]

Wilt, especially when you consider his era.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=1m21s

Um, it's that guy ^



I won't go on and on with old tall tales, just watch the video of the dude in his late 30's at a weight of 300lbs, and then look at and compare the measurements of these guys, including 40 yard dash times for all 3.

Wilt Chamberlain:
Billed Information:
NCAA: 7-0
Philadelphia Warriors: 7-1 1/16, 250
Basketball Reference: 7-1, 275
NBA (All teams after the Warriors): 7-1, 275
Actual Measurements:
Height: 7-1.06 (6-11.5 age 17, 7-1.06 age 23)
Wingspan: 7-8
Standing Reach: 9-6
Hand Length: 9.5"
Hand Spread: 11.5"
Playing Weight:
258 - rookie
265 - 3rd season
292 - 5th season
275 - mid career
285 - mid-late career
300 - late career
320 - maximum (training camp of 5th season)
Shoes: U.S. size 15

*His PR in high-jump was only 4.75" away from U.S. Olympic Gold the year prior, and was better than the 5th place competitor out of 22 nations competing. @ age 20 and 240lbs

*4.6, His 40 yard dash, was timed by Kansas City Chiefs coach Hank Stram at the age of 29, and at a weight of 290lbs... in his bare feet. Stram was scouting him to play pro football and was ranting and raving in the media that he was convinced Wilt would be the greatest receiver in pro football history and was currently in negotiations for Wilt to play.





Shaquille O'Neal:
Billed Information:
NCAA: 7-1, 294
Orlando Magic: 7-1, 300
Basketball Reference: 7-1, 325
NBA (after Orlando): 7-1, 325
Actual Measurements:
Height: 7-0.88 (At age 21, 7-0.63 NBA draft measurement 1, 7-0.88 draft measurement 2)
Wingspan: 7-7
Standing Reach: 9-5
Hand Length: 11"
Hand Spread: 9"
Playing Weight:
280 - Freshman LSU Season
285 - Sophomore LSU Season
294 - Final LSU Season
301 - 1992 draft measurement 1
303 - 1992 draft measurement 2
315 - early career
325 - early-mid career
350 - mid-late career
368 - maximum (out of shape after an injury)
Shoes: U.S. size 22

*5.8, his 40 yard dash recorded for the show Shaq Vs at the age of 36 and at a weight of about 350lbs.

*27 inch standing vertical for the show Shaq Vs at age 36 and 350lbs

*36 inch running vertical at age 20 and 300lbs





Lebron James:

height: 6-7.25
wingspan: 7-0.25
standing reach: 8-10.25
hand length: 9"
hand width: 9.25"

245 as a rookie
250 not long after
260 right now
~265-270 max

*4.4 40 yard dash time, sometime shortly after high school @ 18 years old and 240lbs

*44" vertical (allegedly) - info published around the same time as his 40 yard dash time so around the age of 18-19

[arifgokcen]

Wilt and shaq kind of resemble each other.However we have never seen anyone like lebron in nba history.Lebron practically never had an injury considering he is heavier than most centers and jumps more 40 inches,thats just unfathomable.

So Lebron

[CavaliersFTW]

Tell me when Wilt did this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3AaISFc-A

Wilt ran fast breaks (with the ball in his hands) in HS and NCAA... while dishing behind the back and no look passes. That is impressive that Shaq can do it is well, but lets not pretend Wilt wasn't running full court plays while dribbling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc&t=3m33s

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt and shaq kind of resemble each other.However we have never seen anyone like lebron in nba history.Lebron practically never had an injury considering he is heavier than most centers and jumps more 40 inches,thats just unfathomable.

So Lebron

So Shaq is a high jumper - and a person who always stayed in peak physical condition, and could play 48 minutes a game w/o getting tired?

[alwaysunny]

Wilt ran fast breaks (with the ball in his hands) in HS and NCAA... while dishing behind the back and no look passes. That is impressive that Shaq can do it is well, but lets not pretend Wilt wasn't running full court plays while dribbling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc&t=3m33s

What am I supposed to be seeing at 3:33 mark? A warm up layup? LMAO :facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

Not arguable.

Wilt Chamberlin


Wilt was such a freakish athlete that at 7'2 he was a legit track and field star. I believe at one point he was actually recruited to run track and field for the U.S. Olympic team. I think at one time he even held several track and field NCAA records while in college at Kansas.


http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/wilt-track.jpg


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/nba/1999/chamberlain/wilt2.jpg

Not Olympics as far as I'm aware, that would be Bill Russell but Wilt could have been good enough in it to be an Olympic High Jumper as well he did show the potential - he held the KU Indoor HJ Record when he was finished at KU and had won 2 conference (D1 NCAA) high jump titles as well as 2 other first places in invitationals and a 2nd place. He also placed 3rd in the triple jump event at an invitational. He also won the Overbrook city-league HJ events his Soph and Senior years at Overbrook High School.

[arifgokcen]

So Shaq is a high jumper - and a person who always stayed in peak physical condition, and could play 48 minutes a game w/o getting tired?
You are forgetting something lebron is a wing player with a center
body.Wilt is a center

[CavaliersFTW]

What am I supposed to be seeing at 3:33 mark? A warm up layup? LMAO :facepalm

watch the footage of him in college as they talk about how athletic he was whilst you see the footage dumbass. I obviously didn't link it for you to watch 1 5 second clip of him making a layup.

[CavaliersFTW]

You are forgetting something lebron is a wing player with a center
body.Wilt is a center
so 6'7.25" players with 7'0.25" wingspans are centers now?

[sbw19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vma7PlO6kFI

Gotta be Shaq. Wilt and LeBron the better athletes though so if that's your def of it then pick your poison, it's a tossup.

[t-rex]

Not Olympics as far as I'm aware, that would be Bill Russell but Wilt could have been good enough in it to be an Olympic High Jumper as well he did show the potential - he held the KU Indoor HJ Record when he was finished at KU and had won 2 conference (D1 NCAA) high jump titles as well as 2 other first places in invitationals and a 2nd place. He also placed 3rd in the triple jump event at an invitational. He also won the Overbrook city-league HJ events his Soph and Senior years at Overbrook High School.

Great information. Thank you for the clarification.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh here we go with that Wilt shit again, unless that one poster was just being sarcastic?

At 7'4", Wilt was actually recruited by the U.S. to be the captain of the men's water polo team for the 1968 Pan-American Games.

He was also a professional bobsledder, the best in the world actually.
lol gtfo dude, read my posts the guy isn't even far off - what I posted is what Wilt actually did do that is traceable - I can back up every bit of it with newspapers and archived data from Philadelphia sports leagues to the newspapers publishing the college track and field event results the day after they happened, to the KU sports conference champion booklet available from KU's website. Wilt was a stand out track and field athlete who won 2 D1 NCAA conference titles in the High-Jump event at a big time track and field school, deal with it.

[alwaysunny]

watch the footage of him in college as they talk about how athletic he was whilst you see the footage dumbass. I obviously didn't link it for you to watch 1 5 second clip of him making a layup.

Well then you should've told me. What was I supposed to think you were implying when you show me a VIDEO footage on youtube? I don't wanna hear what they talk about I wanna see the actual footage.

VIDEO OR GTFO

[j3lademaster]

so 6'7.25" players with 7'0.25" wingspans are centers now?

Sadly, yes. Chuck Hayes isn't even that. :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vma7PlO6kFI

Gotta be Shaq. Wilt and LeBron the better athletes though so if that's your def of it then pick your poison, it's a tossup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k

IMO that does not compare to numerous clips seen throughout this footage.

[ProfessorMurder]

Wilt no question. Absurd athletic ability, huge body, multi-talented (different sports), speed, quickness, and stamina.

Shaq as big of a freak he is, is basically just a well proportioned 7 footer. That makes him much more durable, able to carry more muscle, and weight more than almost every player. His size is freakish, but other than that he's just above average in many categories.

LeBron is pretty crazy but, meh.

[WillyJakk]

I'm startin' to think I got baited in this thread as it seems that the intent was to get peeps talking about the Greatness of Wilt...again...

Dude was a freak no question and could run the floor, etc but seriously, look who his competition was.

Once "the man" got tired of seeing how Wilt destroyed teams routinely they said, "Uh oh...time to get some more nighas in here."

Thank god for the ABA.

Anyway, after the League got more colorful, Wilt was older and was still a force but man...this madness will never stop.

[jlauber]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding, at 18.6 rpg. He was voted First-Team All-Defense (over the likes of Thurmond, Kareem, Cowens, and Hayes.) He shot a STILL RECORD of .727 from the field (while scoring 13.2 ppg.) AND, in his 17 post-season games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team), while playing 47.1 mpg. Incidently, think about this...that 22.5 rpg average blows away the next best rpg post-season since (Kareem's 17.3 rpg in his '77 post-season.) Oh, and in his LAST game, he scored 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds.

[CavaliersFTW]

Well then you should've told me. What was I supposed to think you were implying when you show me a VIDEO footage on youtube? I don't wanna hear what they talk about I wanna see the actual footage.

VIDEO OR GTFO
ummm it is video didn't u notice? watch video + listen to talking

it's a new experience, video with audio. the highlights showcase what is being talked about, make sense?

[Living Being]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding, at 18.6 rpg. He was voted First-Team All-Defense (over the likes of Thurmond, Kareem, Cowens, and Hayes.) He shot a STILL RECORD of .727 from the field (while scoring 13.2 ppg.) AND, in his 17 post-season games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team), while playing 47.1 mpg. Incidently, think about this...that 22.5 rpg average blows away the next best rpg post-season since (Kareem's 17.3 rpg in his '77 post-season.) Oh, and in his LAST game, he scored 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds.
And all this was WHILE HE WAS SLEEPING!....and with problems at home.....in a FRIGID arena!

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm startin' to think I got baited in this thread as it seems that the intent was to get peeps talking about the Greatness of Wilt...again...

Dude was a freak no question and could run the floor, etc but seriously, look who his competition was.

Once "the man" got tired of seeing how Wilt destroyed teams routinely they said, "Uh oh...time to get some more nighas in here."

Thank god for the ABA.

Anyway, after the League got more colorful, Wilt was older and was still a force but man...this madness will never stop.
You have got to be kidding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=3m57s

[CavaliersFTW]

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he LED the NBA in rebounding, at 18.6 rpg. He was voted First-Team All-Defense (over the likes of Thurmond, Kareem, Cowens, and Hayes.) He shot a STILL RECORD of .727 from the field (while scoring 13.2 ppg.) AND, in his 17 post-season games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team), while playing 47.1 mpg. Incidently, think about this...that 22.5 rpg average blows away the next best rpg post-season since (Kareem's 17.3 rpg in his '77 post-season.) Oh, and in his LAST game, he scored 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds.
JL I would not start dropping essays and stats here it is going to derail the relevancy of the thread this is about them as physical specimens not as basketball players

[jlauber]

I'm startin' to think I got baited in this thread as it seems that the intent was to get peeps talking about the Greatness of Wilt...again...

Dude was a freak no question and could run the floor, etc but seriously, look who his competition was.

Once "the man" got tired of seeing how Wilt destroyed teams routinely they said, "Uh oh...time to get some more nighas in here."

Thank god for the ABA.

Anyway, after the League got more colorful, Wilt was older and was still a force but man...this madness will never stop.

In Wilt's 65-66 season, he DESTROYED the likes of the 6-10 Russell, the 6-11 Nate Thurmond, and the 6-11 Walt Bellamy, in their 33 H2H games (he outscored all of them, and badly, including a 29-3-1 margin in those H2H's.) BTW, had those guys been measured in shoes, they would have been 6-11, 7-0, and 7-0.

In his 70-71 season, at age 34, and a year removed from major knee surgery...he battled a prime 7-2 Kareem to a statistical draw in their 10 H2H games (actually, those that saw the two play would give an edge to Wilt.)

In Wilt's 71-72 season, he averaged 29 ppg in his five H2H's with 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier...in a season in which Wilt hardly shot the ball. BTW, Wilt had TWO 30-30 games that season (one of them was a 31-32 game against Lanier), which is one more than Kareem had in his entire 20 season career.

In Wilt's LAST season, 72-73, he played against Kareem in six H2H games. He outshot Kareem, .737 to .450, including one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him 10-14 to 10-27.

In the WCF's that season (his LAST), Wilt outrebounded Thurmond, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg, while outshooting him from the floor, .550 to .398.

[jlauber]

JL I would not start dropping essays and stats here it is going to derail the relevancy of the thread this is about them as physical specimens not as basketball players

It does speak VOLUMES about a player that was DOMINATING the league in his LAST season, and at age 36.

[nbacardDOTnet]

Lebron

Has the size of a Center and the quickness of a point guard

Freak!

DRob > lbj

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20San%20Antonio%20Spurs/David%20Robinson/2.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

It does speak VOLUMES about a player that was DOMINATING the league in his LAST season, and at age 36.
Mentioning Wilt's stats is basically troll bait on this forum... the cause and effect kills a lot of threads where Wilt was part of the topic, didn't mean to sound like i'm telling u what to do just exercising some caution that's all

[WillyJakk]

In Wilt's 65-66 season, he DESTROYED the likes of the 6-10 Russell, the 6-11 Nate Thurmond, and the 6-11 Walt Bellamy, in their 33 H2H games (he outscored all of them, and badly, including a 29-3-1 margin in those H2H's.) BTW, had those guys been measured in shoes, they would have been 6-11, 7-0, and 7-0.

In his 70-71 season, at age 34, and a year removed from major knee surgery...he battled a prime 7-2 Kareem to a statistical draw in their 10 H2H games (actually, those that saw the two play would give an edge to Wilt.)

In Wilt's 71-72 season, he averaged 29 ppg in his five H2H's with 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier...in a season in which Wilt hardly shot the ball. BTW, Wilt had TWO 30-30 games that season (one of them was a 31-32 game against Lanier), which is one more than Kareem had in his entire 20 season career.

In Wilt's LAST season, 72-73, he played against Kareem in six H2H games. He outshot Kareem, .737 to .450, including one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him 10-14 to 10-27.

In the WCF's that season (his LAST), Wilt outrebounded Thurmond, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg, while outshooting him from the floor, .550 to .398.

How well do you think Wilt woulda played against guys like Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, or Hakeem Olajuwon, centers who were vastly skilled in more than just one category?

I'm asking this realistically, not to sound like the Centers you named were one dimensional, just wanna get a hopefully honest opinion of how Wilt would play against multi skilled or (in some cases) more mobile Centers.

To me, Wilt wasn't very quick laterally, his quicks seemed more horizontal and I think he'd struggle against certain Centers (as did most guys).

[CavaliersFTW]

How well do you think Wilt woulda played against guys like Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, or Hakeem Olajuwon, centers who were vastly skilled in more than just one category?

I'm asking this realistically, not to sound like the Centers you named were one dimensional, just wanna get a hopefully honest opinion of how Wilt would play against multi skilled or (in some cases) more mobile Centers.

To me, Wilt wasn't very quick laterally, his quicks seemed more horizontal and I think he'd struggle against certain Centers (as did most guys).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=1m22s

In his 30's, all but the first minute is him after his knee surgery, and he's 300lbs. That's his mobility at that time, and you'll see extended footage of him at 35 years old against 25 year old reigning MVP Kareem who was athletically prime and head and shoulders above his showtime Lakers 1980's form. Watch all of that footage from 1:22 on

[trooper]

You have got to be kidding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=3m57s

Thanks for the video, good stuff. Wilt's size is astonishing.

I really wish I could've seen a prime Shaq go head to head with Wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

How well do you think Wilt woulda played against guys like Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, or Hakeem Olajuwon, centers who were vastly skilled in more than just one category?

I'm asking this realistically, not to sound like the Centers you named were one dimensional, just wanna get a hopefully honest opinion of how Wilt would play against multi skilled or (in some cases) more mobile Centers.

To me, Wilt wasn't very quick laterally, his quicks seemed more horizontal and I think he'd struggle against certain Centers (as did most guys).

And calling Bellamy and Thurmond one-dimensional? :facepalm Not sure if serious...

Bellamy noted for having great all around game as good as any centers in the league not named Wilt, and Thurmond the 2nd best high post defensive center (behind Russ) and perhaps even 2nd best low-post defensive center (behind Wilt) of his era who also could drop 30 points on you when he had a hot hand, and who Kareem said made his life more difficult than any opponent he ever faced. Nobody who's even heard those names in passing would jump to a "one-dimensional" conclusion.

That smells like jlauber trollbait...

[jlauber]

How well do you think Wilt woulda played against guys like Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, or Hakeem Olajuwon, centers who were vastly skilled in more than just one category?

I'm asking this realistically, not to sound like the Centers you named were one dimensional, just wanna get a hopefully honest opinion of how Wilt would play against multi skilled or (in some cases) more mobile Centers.

To me, Wilt wasn't very quick laterally, his quicks seemed more horizontal and I think he'd struggle against certain Centers (as did most guys).

Let me ask YOU...

How well do you think a PRIME Kareem would have fared against centers like Hakeem?

I ask that because we KNOW that a 38-39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against a 22-23 Hakeem, AVERAGED 32 ppg on, get this... .630 shooting. He also had THREE games of 40+, including a 46 point game, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. (Incidently, within days of that 46 point explosion, Kareem outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting him, 15-22 to 3-17.)

Now, a 34 year old Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, battled a PRIME Kareem (in arguably his greatest season), in TEN games. Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 26.1 ppg to 22.8, while Wilt outrebounded Kareem, per game, 17.6 rpg to 15.6 rpg, and Wilt outshot Kareem, .481 to .454.

BTW, in their very first meeting, Chamberlain, in his 11th season, outscored Kareem, 25-23; outrebounded Kareem, 25-20; outassisted Kareem, 5-2; outblocked Kareem, 3-2; and outshot Kareem, 9-14 to 9-21.

Then, think about this...

A PRIME Kareem faced Nate Thurmond in some 50 H2H games. His HIGH game against Nate was 34 points. And I am 99% sure that Kareem did not shoot better than .450 against Thurmond in those 50+ H2H's. In fact, in three straight playoff series, from '71 thur '73, Kareem posted FG%'s of .486, .428, and even .405 against Thurmond (and was outscored and outshot by Nate in that series.)

A PRIME "scoring" Wilt had 11 straight games against Thurmond, in which he AVERAGED 30 ppg against him, including games of 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 points. And in their three H2H playoff series, Chamberlain outshot Nate, .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and an eye-popping .560 to .343.

BTW, Wilt AVERAGED 48.2 ppg against the 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy in the course of two straight seasons, and covering 20 straight games. Included in those were FOUR games of 60+, including a HIGH game of 73 points (along with 36 rebounds.)

Oh, and a PRIME Wilt had two straight seasons, and in 19 gameds, against none other than Russell, in which he AVERAGED 39 ppg COMBINED. Over the course of his career against Russell, Chamberlain had 24 games of 40+, including FIVE of 50+, with a HIGH of 62 points.

And, in his 64-65 season, covering nine H2H games, Wilt outscored HOFer Willis Reed, by a 40.1 ppg to 24.0 ppg margin

Just some food for thought...

[magnax1]

Freak of nature?




Shaq, period.





We're not talking who's more athletic. Freak of nature is Shaquille O'Neal, in every possible way.




That's a big ass man and he's legit thick. He was never in shape and never injury prone. He played for 19 years, as a fat man who didn't strengthen the body he had.



Shaq.
Never injury prone really isn't true. Excluding the 99 lockout season he only played 61 games on average. He had a stretch from 99-05 where he was basically healthy (though he did have quite a few years in that stretch where he played in the 60 game range) but much of the rest of his career was plagued by injury riddled seasons.

[WillyJakk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=1m22s

In his 30's, all but the first minute is him after his knee surgery, and he's 300lbs. That's his mobility at that time, and you'll see extended footage of him at 35 years old against 25 year old reigning MVP Kareem who was athletically prime and head and shoulders above his showtime Lakers 1980's form. Watch all of that footage from 1:22 on

Ok, from watching that footage and just using my eye test and opinion of todays crop of Centers (which I think is pretty weak), there's no doubt in my mind that Wilt would be probably the 3rd best Center in today's league (at the age of 35 again based on that footage).

I also see a trend in Wilt's game which is pretty astonishing to me and this is where X factors of my eye test come into play.

Wilt throughout his career was not very fundamentally sound cause you can clearly see in the footage you provided he had a very terrible habit of bringing the ball down below his knees while crouching down very very low which leads me to believe since basketball is a team game, he'd have alot of turnovers if the guards (or whoever) drop down and strip him when he does this.

This also leads me to believe he wouldn't average those crazy stats he averaged in his day considering the quickness of the game has changed.

This is all my opinion though, not fact.

[jlauber]

Ok, from watching that footage and just using my eye test and opinion of todays crop of Centers (which I think is pretty weak), there's no doubt in my mind that Wilt would be probably the 3rd best Center in today's league (at the age of 35 again based on that footage).

I also see a trend in Wilt's game which is pretty astonishing to me and this is where X factors of my eye test come into play.

Wilt throughout his career was not very fundamentally sound cause you can clearly see in the footage you provided he had a very terrible habit of bringing the ball down below his knees while crouching down very very low which leads me to believe since basketball is a team game, he'd have alot of turnovers if the guards (or whoever) drop down and strip him when he does this.

This also leads me to believe he wouldn't average those crazy stats he averaged in his day considering the quickness of the game has changed.

This is all my opinion though, not fact.

Watch a Wilt from his HS years thru his PRIME NBA years then...(and again, thanks to CavsFan.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc&feature=related

BTW, please watch his college footage closely...and then into his early NBA career...he had bonafide 15 ft range.

[magnax1]

Has anyone ever found some reasonable measurements of Lebron? I've read some, but the vast majority are extreme exaggerations. Doing things like listing his height as 6'9" (He's 6'7.25" actually) saying his vert is 45 inches, and his weight is 275 (Karl Malone weighed 256 in his MVP seasons, and was only an inch or so taller)
I'd really like to see what Lebrons real vertical and weight are.

[CavaliersFTW]

Ok, from watching that footage and just using my eye test and opinion of todays crop of Centers (which I think is pretty weak), there's no doubt in my mind that Wilt would be probably the 3rd best Center in today's league (at the age of 35 again based on that footage).

I also see a trend in Wilt's game which is pretty astonishing to me and this is where X factors of my eye test come into play.

Wilt throughout his career was not very fundamentally sound cause you can clearly see in the footage you provided he had a very terrible habit of bringing the ball down below his knees while crouching down very very low which leads me to believe since basketball is a team game, he'd have alot of turnovers if the guards (or whoever) drop down and strip him when he does this.

This also leads me to believe he wouldn't average those crazy stats he averaged in his day considering the quickness of the game has changed.

This is all my opinion though, not fact.

He'd be #1 center today even in that form. Even at that time he was considered a better center than Kareem in the playoffs and #2 to Kareem regular season, and every other center in that league was not close to him or KAJ, and that includes guys like Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Cowens, etc. Your not considering the Shaq effect. He's bigger and more powerful than literally anyone in the game today, and by a shocking margin (save for a healthy Andrew Bynum who is somewhat close proportionately - but not nearly as quick and athletic). Dwight Included, he's a lot bigger than Dwight Howard. Wilt is longer and taller than Shaq, and just as strong. Kareem in the '71 playoffs: "You know what he's gonna do with the ball when he get's it, but you can't stop it" He doesn't need a left hand, and he doesn't need perfect fundamentals if he's going to vice gripe that ball with his two 11.5" wide hands, and your in the way, he's still gonna put it through the basket. And with his top tier defensive instinct - body mass - and crazy length and reaction time, he's gonna block your shots and break up plays... a LOT. Did you see his soft-tap steals from Kareem and soft-touch blocks to teammates or himself? Is there a center that does that today, converting blocks into fast-break turnovers? - And he didn't score in volume as a Laker, because his role was defense to compliment the young offensive talent. But when he did have the ball it was on % as high as .727

[jlauber]

A 27 year old, 290 lb. Chamberlain ran a 4.6 40 in the mid-60's in a tryout for Hank Stram's Chiefs.

[SpecialQue]

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/merrick.jpg

[PHILA]

he'd have alot of turnovers if the guards (or whoever) drop down and strip him when he does this. Yes like they did with Shaq? :facepalm

If anything it gives the opponent a chance to foul Wilt preventing the dunk. Please do not insult our intelligence with the idea that a little guy (especially today) would consistently be able to take the ball from him in his territory. Chances are he would stuff the ball for an "And-1" with the little guy hanging on for dear life, as he did numerous times during his years.

[PHILA]

As if he didn't know to protect the ball under pressure. :roll: :applause:


For example below we can see two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy C. We can also see the defensive players with their hands up denying the active cutters. If he forced the first pass or two then it would likely be a turnover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R9GatatVAg&t=4m28s


But it wasn't as much ball faking as it was to protect it from the defense, also with his beautiful hand offs. No center except perhaps Walton/Russell was ever better at hitting the cutters from the pivot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=11m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdX6bkVIk8&t=2m13s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk&t=16m57s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=23m9s

[PHILA]

To me his quick fake just before going up seems to be a reflex in anticipation of a hard foul. Some examples below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=2m58s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ghbAYFouJA&t=1m47s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80&t=1m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80&t=4m50s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80&t=9m20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5-PEx0n2E&t=21s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5-PEx0n2E&t=4m10s

[jlauber]

As if he didn't know to protect the ball under pressure. :roll: :applause:


For example below we can see two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy C. We can also see the defensive players with their hands up denying the active cutters. If he forced the first pass or two then it would likely be a turnover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R9GatatVAg&t=4m28s


But it wasn't as much ball faking as it was to protect it from the defense, also with his beautiful hand offs. No center except perhaps Walton/Russell was ever better at hitting the cutters from the pivot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=11m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdX6bkVIk8&t=2m13s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk&t=16m57s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=23m9s

Chamberlain was in a league of his own, when compared to other all-time great big men, in terms of passing skills. No other center ever surpassed 5.8 apg in a season. Wilt had seasons of 7.8 apg, and 8.3 apg, and an entire post-season of 9.2 apg. He also had a season in which he averaged 5.2 apg, while LEADING the league in Scoring, Rebounding, AND FG%.

He was a marvelous passer, and a gifted offensive player with excellent range, great quickness, and a wide variety of post moves.

[LAClipsFan33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=1m22s


This...is awesome

[Harison]

Wilt, he was the most freakishly gifted in many ways, ever.

Shaq was more imposing, but overall he wasnt as talented and gifted as Wilt.

Third guy is not like others, and while a freak too, but doesnt belong in this company :D

[JGXEN]

LeBron is probably the most athletically gifted player to grace the hardwood. The guy has strength, size, explosiveness, and speed which surpasses even Michael Jordan who is widely considered as a freak of nature as well.

[eliteballer]

We'll see 10 lebrons before we see another shaq, he really isnt much different than a McGrady besides durability.

Shaq? That big and massive without any hormone imbalance(ie andre the giant) with that kind of agility, mobility, quickness, strength, speed, basketball IQ, durability? Its flat out amazing.

[Floppy]

Oh here we go with that Wilt shit again, unless that one poster was just being sarcastic?

At 7'4", Wilt was actually recruited by the U.S. to be the captain of the men's water polo team for the 1968 Pan-American Games.

He was also a professional bobsledder, the best in the world actually.
Ignorance is a bliss.

:biggums:

[OmniStrife]

http://i.imgur.com/he9HP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n8gfg.jpg

[t-rex]

Let me ask YOU...

How well do you think a PRIME Kareem would have fared against centers like Hakeem?

I ask that because we KNOW that a 38-39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against a 22-23 Hakeem, AVERAGED 32 ppg on, get this... .630 shooting. He also had THREE games of 40+, including a 46 point game, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. (Incidently, within days of that 46 point explosion, Kareem outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting him, 15-22 to 3-17.)

Now, a 34 year old Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, battled a PRIME Kareem (in arguably his greatest season), in TEN games. Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 26.1 ppg to 22.8, while Wilt outrebounded Kareem, per game, 17.6 rpg to 15.6 rpg, and Wilt outshot Kareem, .481 to .454.

BTW, in their very first meeting, Chamberlain, in his 11th season, outscored Kareem, 25-23; outrebounded Kareem, 25-20; outassisted Kareem, 5-2; outblocked Kareem, 3-2; and outshot Kareem, 9-14 to 9-21.

Then, think about this...

A PRIME Kareem faced Nate Thurmond in some 50 H2H games. His HIGH game against Nate was 34 points. And I am 99% sure that Kareem did not shoot better than .450 against Thurmond in those 50+ H2H's. In fact, in three straight playoff series, from '71 thur '73, Kareem posted FG%'s of .486, .428, and even .405 against Thurmond (and was outscored and outshot by Nate in that series.)

A PRIME "scoring" Wilt had 11 straight games against Thurmond, in which he AVERAGED 30 ppg against him, including games of 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 points. And in their three H2H playoff series, Chamberlain outshot Nate, .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and an eye-popping .560 to .343.

BTW, Wilt AVERAGED 48.2 ppg against the 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy in the course of two straight seasons, and covering 20 straight games. Included in those were FOUR games of 60+, including a HIGH game of 73 points (along with 36 rebounds.)

Oh, and a PRIME Wilt had two straight seasons, and in 19 gameds, against none other than Russell, in which he AVERAGED 39 ppg COMBINED. Over the course of his career against Russell, Chamberlain had 24 games of 40+, including FIVE of 50+, with a HIGH of 62 points.

And, in his 64-65 season, covering nine H2H games, Wilt outscored HOFer Willis Reed, by a 40.1 ppg to 24.0 ppg margin

Just some food for thought...


Outstanding post. Wilt is the most underrated all time great NBA player in the history of the sport.

[swi7ch]

Which of the three slept with hundreds of women and fought a mountain lion? That's who.

[Lebron23]

http://www.magicbasketballonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Dwight-Howard-Marcin-Gortat.jpg

[OmniStrife]

http://www.magicbasketballonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Dwight-Howard-Marcin-Gortat.jpg
Who's that little black kid next to Gortat? :biggums:

[Scholar]

http://www.magicbasketballonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Dwight-Howard-Marcin-Gortat.jpg

Wow! You've got to respect Gortat going out of his way to stop and take a picture with a random fan.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Harison]

Wow! You've got to respect Gortat going out of his way to stop and take a picture with a random fan.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:roll:

[jlauber]

Which of the three slept with hundreds of women and fought a mountain lion? That's who.

Hundreds of women? Must have been a bad month.

As for the mountain lion...

I'll let CavsFan post the actual photograph which proved that Wilt not only fought the mountain lion, he KO'd it.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Shaq = Unfair for the opposition.

[WillyJakk]

I am totally convinced due to you guys answers that jlauber & PHILA don't know sh*t about basketball, the knowledge they have is used to propel their own "Old School Greats" agenda.

"Perhaps only Bill Walton and Bill Russell were better passers than Wilt"
-jlauber

Seriously?

I think Sabonis, Yao, and Divac were 3 of the best passing bigs ever but due to your agenda, you fail to even mention them because it doesn't support your view.

And again, if you look at the disparity in total competition from the 60's-70's til now, you'd recognize this.

It ain't too hard to pass like Wilt (who was a great passing big) when the court was practically filled w/ stiffs running around masquerading as NBA players but hey, that's not Wilt's fault so I could never hold that against him.

Also I just LOVE how you guys never ever responded about how low Wilt would crouch while holding the ball at his waist. I'm sure he had a helluva grip making it hard to strip but it's possible.

Anyway back on topic:

Shaq is the biggest freak of nature.

Edit: @ CavalierFTW:

The reason why I'd have Wilt @ 3 would be due to his age (35 in that clip) and I think he'd somewhat struggle w/ the speed of the game (ie overall speed at more positions than when he played).

[inclinerator]

Hundreds of women? Must have been a bad month.

As for the mountain lion...

I'll let CavsFan post the actual photograph which proved that Wilt not only fought the mountain lion, he KO'd it.
go on..

[abuC]

Shaq is the biggest freak of nature, no man 340+lbs should be able to move the way he did.

[PTB Fan]

If this means most physically gifted player ever, then James in a close one over Wilt and O'Neal.

[PHILA]

how low Wilt would crouch while holding the ball at his waist. I'm sure he had a helluva grip making it hard to strip but it's possible.
You almost have to climb up his arm to get to the ball. :no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs&t=23m9s


Reed also attempts to knock it away from him below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAzLiXsINGM&t=1m5s


Did you notice the 76ers would run cutters off him to keep the defense honest? Remember there was no 3 pt. line. The last thing they would want is a standstill offense with no movement and the defense sagging back, especially with no incentive to shoot from distance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdX6bkVIk8&t=2m13s



For example below we can see two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy C. We can also see the defensive players with their hands up denying the active cutters. If he forced the first pass or two then it would likely be a turnover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R9GatatVAg&t=4m28s



Tall Tales: The Glory Years of the NBA - Terry Pluto

http://i.imgur.com/3IxZT.png





Two fake passes subtly getting Russell off balance in the '66 playoffs below, to show an example of Billy C's above comments. They can't even directly get the ball to Wilt with one pass due to KC cheating over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEdiptkyYsY&t=3m1s

[Whoah10115]

Never injury prone really isn't true. Excluding the 99 lockout season he only played 61 games on average. He had a stretch from 99-05 where he was basically healthy (though he did have quite a few years in that stretch where he played in the 60 game range) but much of the rest of his career was plagued by injury riddled seasons.




But that had more to do with being the fat ass he was. Like Baron Davis now, saying he's having back problems and can't do what he used to do. Well JVG called him out. He was out of shape his whole career. Shocking that if you treat your body badly it gets that way. Sometimes, age is irrelevant. If I punch you in the face 20 times it won't take 20 years for it to catch up to you. Thing with Shaq, it didn't really catch up to him. It just messed with the prime stretch of his career.

[ebonics]

Javale McGee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrpdA5BRx3U

[Round Mound]

I think Shaq among those but the biggest freak of nature ever is Charles Barkley by far