Kevin Love... the 2nd best player in the NBA?

[pauk]

Why not? Tell me?

Only a white guy can drop those ridicilous numbers and be this underrated... :D

[Mr. Jabbar]

because he is not, lol, if you need arguments for THAT, its not our problem but yours...

[Rendezvous32]

You must be kidding. There's no way Love is better than LeBron

[Kblaze8855]

No. He is not. Will that be all?

[Jimmy2k8]

Kobe Bryant is the 2nd best player in the NBA. Why not? Tell me.

[pauk]

The question is.... WHY NOT?

I know everybody says "No... just heeeelllzzz no!!! Are u teh crazzzyy!!!?+1+1??"

Then i watch his numbers.... and go :wtf:

Can somebody please help me out understand why not? Why do you think he is not the 2nd best player in the NBA... or at least 3rd?

[Vienceslav]

Two things , he is on a mediocre team and KD is just too good.
If he was doing this on a 1-3 playoff seed team i think there would be no discussion he belongs way up there.

[The Ownage]

The question is.... WHY NOT?

I know everybody says "No... just heeeelllzzz no!!! Are u teh crazzzyy!!!?+1+1??"

Then i watch his numbers.... and go :wtf:
Then you should watch him play and watch his impact instead of watching his numbers.

[DuMa]

the general consensus to be a top 5 player. aka ELITE superstar in this league.

YOU MUST HAVE PLAYED OR ARE GOING TO PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS!

[pauk]

because he is not, lol, if you need arguments for THAT, its not our problem but yours...

It becomes your problem to since you cant elaborate WHY you think he is not.... :D

[pauk]

the general consensus to be a top 5 player. aka ELITE superstar in this league.

YOU MUST HAVE PLAYED OR ARE GOING TO PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS!

So... basically Kevin is discredited because his team suck?

Here we go with this "Winning is the act of one man" debates again...

[RidonKs]

the reason he isn't even top five, let alone top two, is that he's not dominant enough on the offensive end and he's as average as it gets on the defensive end. his rebounding is the only reason he ought to be considered top ten. great shooter and finisher who hasn't shown he can be the focal point of an effective offense. that's kevin love. he's still got a lot to prove.

[TheSilentKiller]

You must be kidding. There's no way Love is better than LeBron

That should rile him up :lol

[I<3NBA]

if he's that good, he should be able to carry the Wolves to a playoff berth at least. i mean, Lebron did it with a much worse cast in Cleveland. getting them to 60 wins no less!

[Nash-tastic]

The question is.... WHY NOT?

I know everybody says "No... just heeeelllzzz no!!! Are u teh crazzzyy!!!?+1+1??"

Then i watch his numbers.... and go :wtf:

Can somebody please help me out understand why not? Why do you think he is not the 2nd best player in the NBA... or at least 3rd?
His stats are not translating into Wins. This is why you should watch the game instead of focusing on stats.

[ganja0710]

http://autopilotlegs.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/img-nothing-to-see-here-174.jpg

[pauk]

KEVIN LOVE

26.0 ppg
13.3 rpg
2.0 apg
0.8 spg
0.5 bpg
PER 25.4
EFF +28.33
Best game this season: 51 pts @ 59% FG, 14 rbs and many many more

KEVIN DURANT

27.8 ppg
7.9 rpg
3.5 apg
1.4 spg
1.2 bpg
PER 26.5
EFF +27.32
Best game this season: 51 pts @ 68% FG

Its pretty damn arguable.......... and i dont care about your team success excuses... Kevin Love has not even close to the supporting cast Durant has...

[blablabla]

minnesota is on a 9game losing streak
he doesn't make his team win
unlike truly great players like kobe,wade,lebron,howard,cp3 who made the playoffs even without a great squad

[pauk]

If you dont want to talk about the topic then at least tell me who you think had better numbers this season.... Durant or Love?

[jb220]

You must be kidding. There's no way Love is better than LeBron
Actually, Love is a better rebounder, passer, shooter, overall scorer than LeBron and plays with more heart and actually gives his all every game.

[blablabla]

If you dont want to talk about the topic then at least tell me who you think had better numbers this season.... Durant or Love?
durant had better numbers
44-16 on 73% is better than 25-36 on 41%



:yaohappy:

[ganja0710]

1. Durant
2. Love
3. LeBron

Is that how it is?

Aight cool brah. :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Typical Lebron fan jerking off to the box score..

[PickernRoller]

Why not? Tell me?

Only a white guy can drop those ridicilous numbers and be this underrated... :D

If Kevin Love is the second best player in the game that makes Lebron third right? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[zizozain]

because stats are overrated

[bagelred]

So... basically Kevin is discredited because his team suck?



maybe his team suck because HE suck? :confusedshrug:

and your grammar suck

[alenleomessi]

Because he hasn't played a single playoff game and this is already his 4th year in the league.

Because he doesn't impact the game due to the fact that he is a shitty defender and always will be, not even the great Adelman can help him about that.

Because he is shooting .450, i mean how pathetic is that for a big man?!?!?!

Stop overrating him

[WillyJakk]

Well in all fairness to K Love...

1: He doesn't have the ball from the start til the end of the play (like most scorers do who most times bring down the ball and initiate the offense).

2: He is in the Western Conference so making the Playoffs is a very hard task, especially when you're a 1 man show.

3. Durant didn't make the Playoffs til Westbrook got there so maybe blame the terrible build that Kahn has one around Love BUT to play devil's advocate to Kahn, he really didn't know Love was gonna be THE guy to build around since it started as him building around Al Jefferson.

Love losing weight and DRASTICALLY improving this year has made it evident that he does have a case.

[donald_trump]

love simply isnt that good. hes got a pretty decent team around him, and he cant win and put up those stats.

what good are his stats if they dont translate to wins? reminds me of adrian dantley in that case.

[ShaqAttack3234]

No, Lebron and Duranta are clearly the top 2 in that order, then probably Dwight and Wade. If Dwight was playing as well as last season I'd have him 2nd.

But Love isn't even top 10. Off the top of my head, I'll add these players to the 4 mentioned as guys better than Love. Kobe, Paul, Rose, Melo, Dirk(I'd still prefer Dirk in the playoffs), Nash(what he's still doing with that team is amazing), Deron, Westbrook(though he's overrated too) and I'm tempted to say Bynum.

Bosh at 2010 level was also better.

I'll give Love credit, he's improving and he's a very good player, but his offense consists mostly of offensive rebounds and long jumpers on pick and pops(partially because big men simply don't like going out that far). And his defense sucks, which is important for a big man. 45% is also lower than I'd like from my PF, which is somewhat deceptive because he takes so many 3s and shoots a great percentage at the line, but I'd rather have a guy who doesn't rely so much on outside shots and offensive rebounds, especially in the playoffs. He gets good position in the post, but I wouldn't call him a great post player yet.

Kevin Love is one of the worst players to judge by stats. As I said in another thread, he's averaging 26/13....the last player to average a full 26/13 was Shaq in '00 with 30/14, though Duncan had a rounded 26/13 in '02(25.5, 12.7) and Shaq had a rounded 29/13 in '01(28.7, 12.7).

Now tell me which name doesn't belong out of those 3. :D

[Fiasco]

No.

[Lebron23]

No

He's a top 7-8 player in today's NBA.

[stephanieg]

Yeah, although it's not like he's amazing or anything -- it's more an indictment of how disgustingly terrible the big man in the league are. How do you let a slow white guy who shoots jumpers all day get 15 boards? Should be ashamed.

[Alamo]

Lol Pauk and his stats.

[eeeeeebro]

I say he is the best did you not see him torching in the all star game he was the reason west won easily

[Jasi]

At this point, pauk, I don't think you're just a LeBron homer any more.
You're just a stats homer.
You probably don't even watch games because you're too busy reading boxscores.

I have some questions for you, please do reply.

- Is it so hard to grasp the concept that stats do not tell the whole story?
- Do you really think that a Top 2 Player isn't expected to make the playoffs with any NBA roster, let alone one that includes a candidate ROY, a candidate MIP and a candidate COY?
- Aren't you one of those who praise LeBron for making a weak Cavaliers team a 60+ wins team?
- So was LeBron's feat not really that great, or is Love just not that good?
- Does the word "empty stats" ring a bell?
- Have you ever seen Kevin Love LET his opponent shoot in order to be able to beat him to the board?
- Have you ever seen Kevin Love play at all?


This is one time when I actually miss the poster "Euroleague" and his "you have ZERO basketball knowledge" line.

[DMV2]

He's not even the most important player on his team.

[Lebron23]

He's not even the most important player on his team.


Love will be a good 2nd or 3rd scoring option on a contending team. He's Like Moses Malone in the 1970's. Malone was a more efficient scorer.

[RidonKs]

Bosh at 2010 level was also better.
love has been better than bosh was that year, but it's a good comparison. look at bosh the last two seasons, he barely even calls for the ball when both wade and lebron are sitting. that's because he's not a dominant offensive player. neither is love. but i'll take the boundless energy and better shooting range in love over chris bosh at his best in a raptors jersey.

[ShaqAttack3234]

love has been better than bosh was that year, but it's a good comparison. look at bosh the last two seasons, he barely even calls for the ball when both wade and lebron are sitting. that's because he's not a dominant offensive player. neither is love. but i'll take the boundless energy and better shooting range in love over chris bosh at his best in a raptors jersey.

I don't know, Bosh was bulked up that year and really impressive to me. He lost weight when he first went to Miami which hurt him, imo and has had some trouble fitting into Miami's offense as a 3rd option since it's made him much more of a jump shooter and limited his drives to the basket.

Though Bosh's rebounding was inflated in Toronto from playing alongside Bargnani. That's the big advantage I see for Love, though he's also a better passer. But Bosh was clearly a better scorer that season to me than Love is. He was much more aggressive, too quick for other big men and a damn good shooter himself. He was also a better defender than Love, I didn't think of him as a particularly good defender in Toronto, despite him improving defensively in Miami, but Love is one of the worst defensive PF, imo.

I think that Bosh in Toronto is a pretty fair comparison because he wasn't on a team that was going anywhere just like Love this season. But Bosh did get that 2010 Raptor team to about .500 and they fell to 22 wins after he left.

Bosh is now in a completely different situation playing on a contender and as the 3rd option(and a player of Bosh's caliber being a 3rd option is rare). And it's as the 3rd option behind 2 of the more ball-dominant players in the NBA. With that being said, Love has played better than Bosh this season, and he's probably more suited to maximizing his own ability as a 3rd option. But I'd take peak Chris Bosh as the man on a team.

[Disaprine]

You must be kidding. There's no way Love is better than LeBron
:lol :applause:

[Celtics4ever]

Why not? Tell me?

Only a white guy can drop those ridicilous numbers and be this underrated... :D

Durant
Rose
Dwight
LeBron
Wade

So no, Love isn't top 2.

[TheNaturalWR]

So... basically Kevin is discredited because his team suck?

Here we go with this "Winning is the act of one man" debates again...

Uhm. He has a better supporting cast than your best buddy LeBron did and yet he can't take his team to the playoffs? His numbers are the most emptiest I've ever seen. Barely any impact on the outcome of games. Wade, LeBron, CP3, Kobe, and Howard carry teams to the playoffs even if the talent is nonexistent on their teams.

[RidonKs]

Bosh is now in a completely different situation playing on a contender and as the 3rd option(and a player of Bosh's caliber being a 3rd option is rare). And it's as the 3rd option behind 2 of the more ball-dominant players in the NBA. With that being said, Love has played better than Bosh this season, and he's probably more suited to maximizing his own ability as a 3rd option. But I'd take peak Chris Bosh as the man on a team.
good post. i'd only say that i'm not building a team around either of these guys unless the supporting cast runs ridiculously strong and deep. bosh is the better first option, but if neither is the type of first option that could lead a deep playoff run, who cares? you can argue the same thing between monta ellis and rajon rondo but when it comes to fitting in on a team, the choice is obvious unless you need scoring in a big way.

love seems much more confident, he's the better shotmaker and support player, and he puts up his numbers without needing a system catering to his strengths. only teams i'd take that bosh or modern day bosh over love for are the worst teams in the league who just need somebody to throw the ball to... otherwise, kevin love is more valuable even discounting age.

but the comparison is still really close and i hope kevin love doesn't waste away in a wintery abyss without getting any help like bosh had to. and additionally, bosh has the ability to step up and it's not like his team doesn't need it. he's just gotten used to not having to fill the void. in the playoffs as the third best player though, time will come when he'll have to produce offense like he was doing in toronto... hard to say whether or not he steps up but he's probably the biggest x-factor in the heat championship run.

[Bigsmoke]

maybe top 7

definitely not top 2

[miles berg]

I don't even have him in the top 10. He is all stats. Rubio is more valuable than him.

[ShaqAttack3234]

good post. i'd only say that i'm not building a team around either of these guys unless the supporting cast runs ridiculously strong and deep. bosh is the better first option, but if neither is the type of first option that could lead a deep playoff run, who cares? you can argue the same thing between monta ellis and rajon rondo but when it comes to fitting in on a team, the choice is obvious unless you need scoring in a big way.

love seems much more confident, he's the better shotmaker and support player, and he puts up his numbers without needing a system catering to his strengths. only teams i'd take that bosh or modern day bosh over love for are the worst teams in the league who just need somebody to throw the ball to... otherwise, kevin love is more valuable even discounting age.

but the comparison is still really close and i hope kevin love doesn't waste away in a wintery abyss without getting any help like bosh had to. and additionally, bosh has the ability to step up and it's not like his team doesn't need it. he's just gotten used to not having to fill the void. in the playoffs as the third best player though, time will come when he'll have to produce offense like he was doing in toronto... hard to say whether or not he steps up but he's probably the biggest x-factor in the heat championship run.

I agree, I wouldn't build around Bosh either, and I think Love would be real asset for Miami with his 3 point shooting, possibly a better fit than Bosh. They'd lose some defense at the position, but their defense isn't predicated on Bosh anyway, despite his improvement since signing with Miami.

I also agree that you have to look at who would be more successful in a role on a championship more since neither are 1st options as you said. But I'd prefer Bosh as a 2nd option as well. As a 2nd option, he'd probably be a lot more comfortable and productive than he is now because he'd still have plenty of touches. I think he could be very good in that role.

I thought that late in the regular season last year and in the playoffs, he found his place on the team and was fine. He's been inconsistent as this season as gone on, though. I also think he should be rebounding a lot more than he is, so some of it is on him, but it's also a very unique situation. Out of all the 3rd options on championship teams the last 20 years or so, he's the most talented offensive player, imo. Only Ray Allen in '08 has an argument off the top of my head, and Allen being a 3 point shooter and able to alter his game to much more of an off the ball player made that a more natural transition. As well as the fact that KG/Pierce weren't as ball dominant and didn't shoot as much as Lebron/Wade. But even Allen had his ups and downs throughout the '08 season.

[RidonKs]

Out of all the 3rd options on championship teams the last 20 years or so, he's the most talented offensive player, imo
a strong argument could be made for parker or manu, whoever you consider worse, in 07... but the gap isn't wide, same as between bosh and love

[ShaqAttack3234]

a strong argument could be made for parker or manu, whoever you consider worse, in 07... but the gap isn't wide, same as between bosh and love

Yeah, they're up there. I should have said compared to championship teams since Miami hasn't won of course. Though there have been some other big 3s with talented 3rd options that didn't win such as Allen/Robinson/Cassell, Dirk/Finley/Nash, Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley(in '97 at least).

[ScarSymmetry]

I'm sorry but until Love can get his team into the playoffs it's just not a valid argument.

[Qwertyazerty]

I'm sorry but until Love can get his team into the playoffs it's just not a valid argument.

I think this was his first season with half decent teammates and previous to Rubio's injury they had the 8th spot in the west. The've been really unlucky with injuries this season. I'm not saying he's even close to 2nd best player, but people should stop discrediting him everytime for not leading his team to PO.

[D-Wade316]

lol

[Ass Dan]

Why not? Tell me?

Only a white guy can drop those ridicilous numbers and be this underrated... :D

yous a cutie!

[FatComputerNerd]

Actually, Love is a better rebounder, passer, shooter, overall scorer than LeBron and plays with more heart and actually gives his all every game.

Are you serious? :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

Are you serious? :lol
lol I love K Love but I don't think he's a better passer than LBJ. Maybe for the initial outlet pass... but with all those rebounds he gets lot more practice at it!!

[Heavincent]

Pauk, explain yourself.

[plowking]

Pauk, explain yourself.

Doesn't consider him a superstar though.

Not now at least.

Plays with Lebron.

He is now a scrub.

[JtotheIzzo]

Kevin Love is a straight up Gamma

[tomtucker]

he fukking sucks.........then got a call from Lebitch, then took his sucking to Cleveland

[Inferno]

:lol

[Dresta]

Oh dear Pauk...

[buddha]

Kevin Love is a straight up Gamma

so LeBron is a Delta?

[sportjames23]

Pauk, explain yourself.


pauk still hasn't given us his Jordan flop video and your expecting him to explain this? :oldlol:

[pauk]

Pauk, explain yourself.

What is there to explain? This is in 2012 where i started a thread asking about whether Love could be argued for being 2nd best player in the NBA in 2012 based on his productions alone....

Then 2, soon 3 years passed.... where we got a good look at how he impacts the game, whether the stats lie or not, we got a good look into the context....

So with other words, you need to explain yourself.... why did you bump this old thread and why did i need to "explain myself"?

[plowking]

What is there to explain? This is in 2012 where i started a thread asking about whether Love could be argued for being 2nd best player in the NBA in 2012 based on his productions alone....

Then 2, soon 3 years passed.... where we got a good look at how he impacts the game, whether the stats lie or not, we got a good look into the context....

So with other words, you need to explain yourself.... why did you bump this old thread and why did i need to "explain myself"?

So you thought he was a top 3 player, but now you don't because he plays with Lebron?

[Milbuck]

What is there to explain? This is in 2012 where i started a thread asking about whether Love could be argued for being 2nd best player in the NBA in 2012 based on his productions alone....

Then 2, soon 3 years passed.... where we got a good look at how he impacts the game, whether the stats lie or not, we got a good look into the context....

So with other words, you need to explain yourself.... why did you bump this old thread and why did i need to "explain myself"?
Your post was in mid April, which is around playoff time..and the Wolves ended the year 26-40, so not even close to being a playoff team. So when you made this thread Kevin Love had missed the playoffs 4 straight times putting up back to back seasons of 20/15 on 59% TS and 26/13 on 57% TS. I don't see what conclusions you could make about his "impact" after the 2013 and 2014 seasons that you couldn't make after 4 straight seasons of missing the playoffs despite having consecutive monstrous seasons.

If Anthony Davis right now was doing what he's doing, but the Pelicans ended this year winning 17 games..and then next year in his 4th year he puts up even more monstrous numbers, but his team only improves to 32 wins and once again they're not even close to the playoffs...what would you say? Something tells me you wouldn't be willing to give Davis the benefit of the doubt, wait 2 more years and THEN completely change your opinion if it continued.

[pauk]

So you thought he was a top 3 player, but now you don't because he plays with Lebron?

No, never said that, i said i dont think he is a superstar and that i think his defense is horrible.... then BAM this thread is bumped by Kobetard #1....

Speaking of the top 3 thing, no, i dont think he is a top 3 player right now.

[plowking]

No, never said that, i said i dont think he is a superstar and that i think his defense is horrible.... then BAM this thread is bumped by Kobetard #1....

Speaking of the top 3 thing, no, i dont think he is a top 3 player right now.

You did. Your thread implied that you thought he was a top 3 player, even top 2, and you implied he might be better than Durant. Clearly that was your opinion at the time.

So why has it changed?

[plowking]

Your post was in mid April, which is around playoff time..and the Wolves ended the year 26-40, so not even close to being a playoff team. So when you made this thread Kevin Love had missed the playoffs 4 straight times putting up back to back seasons of 20/15 on 59% TS and 26/13 on 57% TS. I don't see what conclusions you could make about his "impact" after the 2013 and 2014 seasons that you couldn't make after 4 straight seasons of missing the playoffs despite having consecutive monstrous seasons.

If Anthony Davis right now was doing what he's doing, but the Pelicans ended this year winning 17 games..and then next year in his 4th year he puts up even more monstrous numbers, but his team only improves to 32 wins and once again they're not even close to the playoffs...what would you say? Something tells me you wouldn't be willing to give Davis the benefit of the doubt, wait 2 more years and THEN completely change your opinion if it continued.

Dude literally called the rest of the Cavs teams scrubs in the other thread. He just can't seem to grasp that Bron isn't playing as well as he can, and that even though the team is great (it is, probably better than the Heat ever were talent wise), they are coming up short, and some of it is due to Bron.

[pauk]

Your post was in mid April, which is around playoff time..and the Wolves ended the year 26-40, so not even close to being a playoff team. So when you made this thread Kevin Love had missed the playoffs 4 straight times putting up back to back seasons of 20/15 on 59% TS and 26/13 on 57% TS. I don't see what conclusions you could make about his "impact" after the 2013 and 2014 seasons that you couldn't make after 4 straight seasons of missing the playoffs despite having consecutive monstrous seasons.

If Anthony Davis right now was doing what he's doing, but the Pelicans ended this year winning 17 games..and then next year in his 4th year he puts up even more monstrous numbers, but his team only improves to 32 wins and once again they're not even close to the playoffs...what would you say? Something tells me you wouldn't be willing to give Davis the benefit of the doubt, wait 2 more years and THEN completely change your opinion if it continued.

My (and some more perhaps) point of view on him / his game has adjusted over the span of those years..... See, I am a guy who firmly has always believed team accomplishments / team records (especially championships) is overrated or at least flawed if you want to use that as the criteria for evaluating how great a player is.... i have seen Bird, Magic, Jordan and everybody after them play better than they ever did and not win a championship (or have a good record or lose early in playoffs) and then play BAD and have even more success.... Players keep proving over and over and over that team success is ALL about the supporting cast, that you can be the most talanted/skilled player in NBA history and never win a championship (or not enough), see Wilt... see Oscar...

Point is, thats why i called Lebron James the best player in the NBA when Kobe was spamming rings....... thats why i will call ANYBODY who individually plays better than him the best player in the NBA... Kevin Durant especially last year, was close to me doing that....

and THATS why i think Anthony Davis IS a top 3 player in the NBA right now.....

and THATS why i thought Love could be argued for top 3 back in 2012, but my view of him changed once i got a very good at the context of it all.... he simply just doesnt impact the outcome of the game as good as 3 players now would.... He is a great scorer, i dont think his rebounding (or rebounding in general, unless we speak of off. rebs) is as meaningful as the numbers say, he is a horrible defender and doesnt have the killer instinct to close out games better than 3 guys (or more) i could mention right now ....

[Dr.J4ever]

My (and some more perhaps) point of view on him / his game has adjusted over the span of those years..... See, I am a guy who firmly has always believed team accomplishments / team records (especially championships) is overrated or at least flawed if you want to use that as the criteria for evaluating how great a player is.... i have seen Bird, Magic, Jordan and everybody after them play better than they ever did and not win a championship (or have a good record or lose early in playoffs) and then play BAD and have even more success.... Players keep proving over and over and over that team success is ALL about the supporting cast, that you can be the most talanted/skilled player in NBA history and never win a championship (or not enough), see Wilt... see Oscar...

Point is, thats why i called Lebron James the best player in the NBA when Kobe was spamming rings....... thats why i will call ANYBODY who individually plays better than him the best player in the NBA... Kevin Durant especially last year, was close to me doing that....

and THATS why i think Anthony Davis IS a top 3 player in the NBA right now.....

and THATS why i thought Love could be argued for top 3 back in 2012, but my view of him changed once i got a very good at the context of it all.... he simply just doesnt impact the outcome of the game as good as 3 players now would.... He is a great scorer, i dont think his rebounding (or rebounding in general, unless we speak of off. rebs) is as meaningful as the numbers say, he is a horrible defender and doesnt have the killer instinct to close out games better than 3 guys (or more) i could mention right now ....

I, on the other hand, didn't think Kevin Love could be called even in 2012 one of the top 5 or top 2 players in the game. His play today with a team that is looking to contend exposes his numbers with the Wolves.

Kevin Love today proves the "empty stats" theory. Proponents of this theory say the object of the game of basketball is to win and not to produce stats. You produce stats in order to win, and for no other reason. After all, there are only 5 players on either end, and only one player holds the ball in his hands offensively. One player can impact the course of action tremendously.

Many on this site act like individual stats are as good as team wins. Many here act like stats are numbers that stand forever in any situation. The truth is numbers are a product of team philosophy, structure, and opportunity. They are not a be-all, end-all that stand forever in any situation.

There are so many examples of players who produce numbers on weaker teams, and once transferred to a better team, these same players suffer declines in their numbers. So the true test of super stardom should be to watch out for players who contribute most for winning and upper echelon teams.

What to do then with players like Anthony Davis, and hopefully even MCW of the 76ers who produce, at times, stunning numbers for middling teams or outright awful teams? The answers is that their numbers indicate the level of talent and skill they have as individual players, but as true basketball professionals whose main duty is to produce wins, they are not yet truly elite.

Don't get me wrong. I would take AD in a second to build a winning franchise, but I would not be delusional enough to believe he can lead us to a title right now in the same way Lebron has catapulted the Cavs as an instant favorite because of him.

Until AD shows he can get tough rebounds when the team needs it, or until he can score at the right times to keep his team in it, or score that key basket to put his team over the top, or to assist his teammates and lift their level of play, and until he gets key blocks and steals to seal a game, he is still just another talented NBA big man who has yet to learn the objective of the game of basketball: to win .

[ArbitraryWater]

bad look on pauk, buck breaked it down, but gotta give props for pauk not backing down and continuing to explain himself and give some reasons.

[riseagainst]

so after Kevin Love starts to play with Lebron, he is considered a sh.t player. Before then, he's 2nd best in the NBA.

:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[3peated]

2nd best player in the nba would get into the playoffs every year, even in the west.



edit: cp3 in new orleans. okc during 08-11. i could think of more examples of great players. kevin love just isn't that great, he is a very good player but not a top 10 player because of that alone.

[pegasus]

Pauk just take the L and shut up. Even Lebron has been doing that lately. Learn from your master.

[G0ATbe]

Wouldn't go that far. Him and Kyrie are arguably top 5 though.

If I had to rank them

Kobe
Durant
Westbrook
Kyrie
Love

Kyrie and Love are interchangeable.

[Kingwillball]

I cringed reading this honestly as it is so apparent how overrated love is/was as a player. Sure he can rebound and knock down 3s and occasionally post up but you can see why the wolves sucked and why cavs are struggling as he cannot defend and cannot create his own shot. The cavs have some flaws defensively that I can't see being fixed without a trade to solidly the paint.

[Myth]

Does this mean we can finally agree that Aldridge is better?

[TheBigVeto]

He's not.
But he's better than Kobe though.

[plowking]

Bump.

Bron plays with possible the second best player in the league, and Mr. 57, aka Kyrie Irving.

This is a truly special team.

[plowking]

Bump again.

[Dr Hawk]

You spelled "worst nba player" wrong

[kennethgriffin]

Bump again.


hes the 3rd option in a lebron offense


same shit happened to bosh


if cleveland utilized him to his strengths. which arnt three pointers. but infact post play... and gave him first option. he would put up 25ppg again

so don't judge love in this debacle of a situation


and he was never good at defense. but that didnt stop lebron from making the decision to trade wiggins for him

[LoneyROY7]

Good call, pauk. :applause:

Genius analysis and breakdown.

[plowking]

if cleveland utilized him to his strengths. which arnt three pointers. but infact post play... and gave him first option. he would put up 25ppg again



Don't care for your breakdown either. But you need to check how he got 25ppg in Minny.

[La Frescobaldi]

pauk still hasn't given us his Jordan flop video and your expecting him to explain this? :oldlol:

even another year later gone by sj23 and still....... no Jordan Flop video from pauk

[Asukal]

Of course it is anybody else's fault but leflop. :rolleyes:

Leflop's ball dominant style plays well with role players but he can never play with another superstar without degrading them into lesser version of themselves. :facepalm

It is good he is no longer the face of the league, a flopping colluding crybaby mental midget like leflop is bad for basketball. :oldlol:

[Dr Hawk]

Of course it is anybody else's fault but leflop. :rolleyes:

Leflop's ball dominant style plays well with role players but he can never play with another superstar without degrading them into lesser version of themselves. :facepalm

It is good he is no longer the face of the league, a flopping colluding crybaby mental midget like leflop is bad for basketball. :oldlol:

It obviously is Lebron's ball fault too. But Love is ****ing horrible defensively, he plays the worst defense I have ever seen. He should be sent to some D-League team's bench

[Dr Hawk]

https://vine.co/v/iOLFbZHA60V

[ShawkFactory]

hes the 3rd option in a lebron offense


same shit happened to bosh


if cleveland utilized him to his strengths. which arnt three pointers. but infact post play... and gave him first option. he would put up 25ppg again

so don't judge love in this debacle of a situation


and he was never good at defense. but that didnt stop lebron from making the decision to trade wiggins for him
So Lebron and Kyrie should both relegate love to being the first option?

[GoSpursGo1984]

Why not? Tell me?

Only a white guy can drop those ridicilous numbers and be this underrated... :D

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Funny-Comeback-Memes-Tumblr-1.jpg