Micheal Jordan vs Sonics defense 1996 finals

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw&nomobile=1 I count so many plays that would of been called a foul today its not even funny

[WillyJakk]

Thank you thank you thank you for posting this.

This takes me back to MY NBA, this is what I loved about the game.

These stars like D Wade (who is great in this era) couldn't withstand it in the 90's.

He hates getting touched now, imagine what GP woulda done to him.

LeBron would still be laying on the court wincing and holding the wrong shoulder or ankle after being defended like this, he'd have to look on the Jumbotron (as usual) to see which side of the body he actually got fouled on just so he could get some fake sympathy from the refs/ fans.

[donald_trump]

jordan got treated like a princess that finals. if it was called properly sonics would have gone home with the title.

i remember watching this and being amazed at special calls that only michael got.

[Cladyclad]

Are u serious? I see the same stuff today.

[Glide2keva]

jordan got treated like a princess that finals. if it was called properly sonics would have gone home with the title.

i remember watching this and being amazed at special calls that only michael got.
Special calls, wow. Agenda much? So you just hate on anything that has anything to with Jordan and the Bulls.

[tmacattack33]

Thank you thank you thank you for posting this.

This takes me back to MY NBA, this is what I loved about the game.

These stars like D Wade (who is great in this era) couldn't withstand it in the 90's.

He hates getting touched now, imagine what GP woulda done to him.

LeBron would still be laying on the court wincing and holding the wrong shoulder or ankle after being defended like this, he'd have to look on the Jumbotron (as usual) to see which side of the body he actually got fouled on just so he could get some fake sympathy from the refs/ fans.

Lebron is 6'8 250-260 with hardly any fat.

If players would be allowed to be more physical, Lebron's game would go up when compared to his peers (Kevin Durant who can't even bench 190 lbs, D. Rose, Westbrook, etc).

Next time, think about what you want to say before posting it.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

In the series clinching game 6... Jordan attempted more FT attempts than the Sonics by himself

:confusedshrug:

[WillyJakk]

Lebron is 6'8 250-260 with hardly any fat.

If players would be allowed to be more physical, Lebron's game would go up when compared to his peers (Kevin Durant who can't even bench 190 lbs, D. Rose, Westbrook, etc).

Next time, think about what you want to say before posting it.

He's soft & you know it (and I like the guy, he's just cut from a different cloth).

Body of a King, Heart of a kitten:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foaPMZxtzx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBjuVGbb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBR_KPWVtE&feature=fvwrel

[hitmanyr2k]

Can you imagine stars today receiving this kind of contact before even catching the ball? They would cry bloody murder. You don't see Jordan crying, flopping or flaling and this is 35 year old MJ :oldlol: That's when they used to play like men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3TnDgfpNA#t=5m46s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3TnDgfpNA#t=8m07s

[gengiskhan]

I remember watching this whole NBA Finals series live on NBC

-The defense Peyton, 1996 NBA DPOY was playing on Jordan, 1996 NBA MVP was stuff of legends.

-Peyton despite being shorter was extremely physical and many times absolutely illegal & foul worthy

-1996 Sonics help defense was also excellent as Peyton was Dumar's like & their collective help in containing Jordan won them 2 games & almost won them 2 more games.

-Prime-physical-Peyton & Coach Karl realised best way to contain past-his-prime MJ is to tire him out completely by expending his energy completely so he has little energy left offensively & it worked to certain extent.

-This is when Kukoc, Rodman & Kerr were superb offensively as Pippen's offensive game continue to struggle as usual in NBA Finals when bulls needed the most.

-One can make a case that MJ could've shared his 1996 FMVP with Rodman but Rodman needed to score more to distance himself from Kerr & Kukoc which did not happened. The Worm's one deminsionality costed him FMVP here.

[Lebron23]

Kobe-esque shooting

That's not Michael Jordan. Nice blocked by Kemp on MJ in that series. I really wanted the Sonics to win the NBA title in 1996.

[Glide2keva]

I remember watching this whole NBA Finals series live on NBC

-The defense Payton, 1996 NBA DPOY was playing on Jordan, 1996 NBA MVP was stuff of legends.

-Peyton despite being shorter was extremely physical and many times absolutely illegal & foul worthy

-1996 Sonics help defense was also excellent as Payton was Dumars like & their collective help in containing Jordan won them 2 games & almost won them 2 more games.

-Prime-physical-Payton & Coach Karl realized best way to contain past-his-prime MJ is to tire him out completely by expending his energy completely so he has little energy left offensively & it worked to certain extent.

-This is when Kukoc, Rodman & Kerr were superb offensively as Pippen's offensive game continue to struggle as usual in NBA Finals when bulls needed the most.

-One can make a case that MJ could've shared his 1996 FMVP with Rodman but Rodman needed to score more to distance himself from Kerr & Kukoc which did not happened. The Worm's one dimensionality cost him FMVP here.
Payton.

[bwink23]

This might be Jordan's worst shooting series of his career in the Finals....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_finals.html

Jordan = 41.5%FG from the floor.

Notice the whole team only shot 41.6%.

Scottie Pippen = 15.7ppg on 34.3%FG....9 for 39 from the 3-point line...(Scottie carried Jordan = :rolleyes: )
Steve Kerr = 5.0ppg on 30.3%FG....4 for 22 from the 3-point line.
Ron Harper = 6.5ppg on 37.5%FG
Toni Kukoc = 13.0ppg on 42.3%FG


What a hard fought series that was, despite the early 3-0 lead by the Bulls.

[97 bulls]

This might be Jordan's worst shooting series of his career in the Finals....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996_finals.html

Jordan = 41.5%FG from the floor.

Notice the whole team only shot 41.6%.

Scottie Pippen = 15.7ppg on 34.3%FG....9 for 39 from the 3-point line...(Scottie carried Jordan = :rolleyes: )
Steve Kerr = 5.0ppg on 30.3%FG....4 for 22 from the 3-point line.
Ron Harper = 6.5ppg on 37.5%FG
Toni Kukoc = 13.0ppg on 42.3%FG


What a hard fought series that was, despite the early 3-0 lead by the Bulls.
Was pippen playing injured during that series?

[97 bulls]

I remember watching this whole NBA Finals series live on NBC

-The defense Peyton, 1996 NBA DPOY was playing on Jordan, 1996 NBA MVP was stuff of legends.

-Peyton despite being shorter was extremely physical and many times absolutely illegal & foul worthy

-1996 Sonics help defense was also excellent as Peyton was Dumar's like & their collective help in containing Jordan won them 2 games & almost won them 2 more games.

-Prime-physical-Peyton & Coach Karl realised best way to contain past-his-prime MJ is to tire him out completely by expending his energy completely so he has little energy left offensively & it worked to certain extent.

-This is when Kukoc, Rodman & Kerr were superb offensively as Pippen's offensive game continue to struggle as usual in NBA Finals when bulls needed the most.

-One can make a case that MJ could've shared his 1996 FMVP with Rodman but Rodman needed to score more to distance himself from Kerr & Kukoc which did not happened. The Worm's one deminsionality costed him FMVP here.
Rodman should've won the FMVP. When the opposing teams coach laments that he (Rodman) won 2 of the bulls 4 wins by himself, nothing more needs to be said. And don't short change Luc Longleys role in that finals. He killed the sonics when they doubled jordan.

[bwink23]

Was pippen playing injured during that series?


Does it matter if he was or wasn't?? :confusedshrug:

Did Pippen play injured in the 98 Finals??

Did Pippen go down with a "migraine" headache vs. the Pistons??

THEY STILL WON.

[bwink23]

Rodman should've won the FMVP. When the opposing teams coach laments that he (Rodman) won 2 of the bulls 4 wins by himself, nothing more needs to be said. And don't short change Luc Longleys role in that finals. He killed the sonics when they doubled jordan.


BULLSHIT....Rodman had limited impact on the offensive end. No one outside of Bill Russell would ever win Finals MVP on just defensive impact, offensive rebounding. NEVER, EVER, EVER.

[Pursuer]

Kobe-esque shooting

That's not Michael Jordan. Nice blocked by Kemp on MJ in that series. I really wanted the Celtics to win the NBA title in 1996.

Celtics?

Anyway, those Sonics weren't as good as 08 Celtics.

[bwink23]

Celtics?

Anyway, those Sonics weren't as good as 08 Celtics.


:lol .....08 Celtics don't have Payton on the perimeter either...kobe always struggled against 2000's sonics....:no:

[t-rex]

Thanks for posting.

2 Observations:

1)What an eye opener. The league 20 years ago was MUCH MORE PHYSICAL than it is today. Its amazing how the game has changed. What the NBA has done in the last 15 years to basketball, is very much like what the NFL has done over the same period to try and increase the passing game in football. Defenses are much more limited today. Jordan by today's rules would be much tougher to defend.

2) Jordan was very effective as a low post/ post up player. That is a lost art in todays game. We think of Jordan as streaking to the basket off the dribble, but like Bird, a SUBSTANTIAL amount of his points came from the post. Lebron James should see this and take notes.

[97 bulls]

Does it matter if he was or wasn't?? :confusedshrug:

Did Pippen play injured in the 98 Finals??

Did Pippen go down with a "migraine" headache vs. the Pistons??

THEY STILL WON.
This is a dumb post. Your knocking him for playing hurt and knocking him for missing a game cuz he was hurt. Which is it?

[97 bulls]

BULLSHIT....Rodman had limited impact on the offensive end. No one outside of Bill Russell would ever win Finals MVP on just defensive impact, offensive rebounding. NEVER, EVER, EVER.
Lol. I respect the word of the sonics coach over a bunch of sportswriters. And rodman had a huge offensive impact, he had 2 games with 11 offensive rebounds, then another with 8. He set the record for most offensive rebounds in the finals. That's another part of offense my friend

[bwink23]

Lol. I respect the word of the sonics coach over a bunch of sportswriters. And rodman had a huge offensive impact, he had 2 games with 11 offensive rebounds, then another with 8. He set the record for most offensive rebounds in the finals. That's another part of offense my friend


Like i said....NEVER, EVER!! :coleman:

[Da_Realist]

-This is when Kukoc, Rodman & Kerr were superb offensively as Pippen's offensive game continue to struggle as usual in NBA Finals when bulls needed the most.

What about his defensive impact? What about knowing when and where to give MJ the ball, setting up the rest of the team for easier shots and being more or less a secondary coach on the floor on both ends? You can't just look at fg% to judge how Pippen played.

He averaged more rebounds (by 3!), more assists, more steals and more blocks than MJ did in the 96 Finals. Don't write him off like he was nothing.

He didn't shoot well, but he did everything else.
Game 1 -- 21, 7, 3, 3, 3
Game 2 -- 21, 7, 2, 2, 2
Game 3 -- 12, 8, 9, 3, 0
Game 4 -- 9, 11, 8, 1, 2
Game 5 -- 14, 8, 5, 1, 1
Game 6 -- 17, 8, 5, 4, 0

Look at how well rounded those numbers are. 3 steals and 3 blocks in Game One. 8 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals in Game Three. 11 rebounds and 8 assists in Game Four. 8 rebounds and 4 steals in Game Five. Not to mention the defensive impact...

[97 bulls]

What about his defensive impact? What about knowing when and where to give MJ the ball, setting up the rest of the team for easier shots and being more or less a secondary coach on the floor on both ends? You can't just look at fg% to judge how Pippen played.

He averaged more rebounds (by 3!), more assists, more steals and more blocks than MJ did in the 96 Finals. Don't write him off like he was nothing.

He didn't shoot well, but he did everything else.
Game 1 -- 21, 7, 3, 3, 3
Game 2 -- 21, 7, 2, 2, 2
Game 3 -- 12, 8, 9, 3, 0
Game 4 -- 9, 11, 8, 1, 2
Game 5 -- 14, 8, 5, 1, 1
Game 6 -- 17, 8, 5, 4, 0

Look at how well rounded those numbers are. 3 steals and 3 blocks in Game One. 8 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals in Game Three. 11 rebounds and 8 assists in Game Four. 8 rebounds and 4 steals in Game Five. Not to mention the defensive impact...
Great post Real. And didn't payton defend pippen the first 3 games?

[Ne 1]

Rodman should've won the FMVP. When the opposing teams coach laments that he (Rodman) won 2 of the bulls 4 wins by himself, nothing more needs to be said. And don't short change Luc Longleys role in that finals. He killed the sonics when they doubled jordan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ByBuATTyg

In the 1996 Finals, Rodman deserved consideration for Finals MVP that went to Michael Jordan.

During those Finals Rodman averaged 8 points and 15 rebounds in 38 minutes per game. He tied an NBA Finals record for most offensive rebounds in a game with 11. And he did that in Game 2 and the deciding game 6.


The Bulls had a commanding 3-0 lead after Jordan had his series high in points. Payton would outplay Jordan the next two games delaying the inevitable, but Jordan won the Finals MVP. I don't think Jordan deserved it. Rodman won the series with his offensive rebounding. - Elliot Kalb, Who's better Who's best in basketball?


During the Finals Jordan not only shot terribly from the field, he was absolute shit in the fourth quarters too (shot 33.3% in them, and only 15.4% in the fourth quarters of the three close games). In the two close wins of the series, Rodman averaged 11 offensive rebounds/game. He was setting records, and when MJ was shooting the team out of the game with bricks (rest of the team struggled shooting wise too), it was Rodman getting all those rebounds to give Bulls the extra possessions. Bulls as a team shot much lower than Sonics in that series...why do you think they still won? They got 34 more possessions from offensive rebounds (Rodman alone had 41!). MJ's scoring could have been replaced in that series, but Rodman's historic offensive rebounding? Not so much.

Rodman should have been the MVP of that Finals. The Bulls shot much worse from the field than the Sonics in the Finals but still won. How did that happen? Simple. The Bulls got more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses. Rodman, by himself, secured and additional 41 possessions for the Bulls with his offensive rebounding including 2 games where he tied an NBA Finals record. That's like playing H-O-R-S-E and someone giving you multiple "do overs" after you've missed.

In the deciding Game 6 Jordan went 5-19 (26 FG%) while Rodman set a Finals record with 11 offensive rebounds. At the very least he was the MVP of the close out Game 6.

[Ne 1]

Seattle coach George Karl said,

[Da_Realist]

Great post Real. And didn't payton defend pippen the first 3 games?

He did. If there was ever a series that looks bad on paper, it was this one. It was a slugfest with two proud, physical teams going hard on both ends. Nobody's numbers looked great. It was a war of attrition. Both teams had to deal with injuries to key players during the series (McMillan for Seattle and Harper for the Bulls) that sort of them off a little bit. If anything, Pippen's "other" contributions should mean more considering the type of series it was. Same with Rodman's rebounds.

Put it like this... Seattle wore MJ out that series -- which was the plan. What if Pippen didn't play and MJ had to assume an even larger role than he already had? Like I said, Pippen's contributions were vital. Harper went out and the Bulls lost 2 straight games. It's the little things that matter in a series like this.

[97 bulls]

He did. If there was ever a series that looks bad on paper, it was this one. It was a slugfest with two proud, physical teams going hard on both ends. Nobody's numbers looked great. It was a war of attrition. Both teams had to deal with injuries to key players during the series (McMillan for Seattle and Harper for the Bulls) that sort of them off a little bit. If anything, Pippen's "other" contributions should mean more considering the type of series it was. Same with Rodman's rebounds.

Put it like this... Seattle wore MJ out that series -- which was the plan. What if Pippen didn't play and MJ had to assume an even larger role than he already had? Like I said, Pippen's contributions were vital. Harper went out and the Bulls lost 2 straight games. It's the little things that matter in a series like this.
It was definately a war of attrition. The sonics knew the only way they could beat the bulls was to be physical and muck up the game. During the whole bulls dynasty, it was understood you weren't gonna out finnese the bulls. Or beat them playing straight up. The best waay to beat them was to try to beat them up. Going back to the bad boy pistons, then the knicks, then the heat, the jazz, the pacers. They all went out and tried to play jungle ball vs the bulls. The sonics were no different.

I don't know how or why the bulls were tagged as a team that would give in to physical basketball, cuz they never lost these types of series.

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]Seattle coach George Karl said,

[thelucifer69]

Celtics?

Anyway, those Sonics weren't as good as 08 Celtics.

Watch 2008 Finals series Ray Allen or whoever they are, barely touch Kobe.

[inclinerator]

ppl bashing the current players, you think they wont be able to adjust? the defense in the 2010 finals are like this too

[gengiskhan]

What about his defensive impact? What about knowing when and where to give MJ the ball, setting up the rest of the team for easier shots and being more or less a secondary coach on the floor on both ends? You can't just look at fg% to judge how Pippen played.

He averaged more rebounds (by 3!), more assists, more steals and more blocks than MJ did in the 96 Finals. Don't write him off like he was nothing.

He didn't shoot well, but he did everything else.
Game 1 -- 21, 7, 3, 3, 3
Game 2 -- 21, 7, 2, 2, 2
Game 3 -- 12, 8, 9, 3, 0
Game 4 -- 9, 11, 8, 1, 2
Game 5 -- 14, 8, 5, 1, 1
Game 6 -- 17, 8, 5, 4, 0

Look at how well rounded those numbers are. 3 steals and 3 blocks in Game One. 8 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals in Game Three. 11 rebounds and 8 assists in Game Four. 8 rebounds and 4 steals in Game Five. Not to mention the defensive impact...

Totally disagree.

Here are the reasons

A number 2, all-time great, Top 5 players of 1996 cannot ave 15.6 ppg in NBA Finals & expect it to be called a winning contribution

For a # 3 option, 15.6 is very good. For # 2, Pippen's stats are poor. Pippen should've ave 20-22 ppg to say he had a "good" series, 23-24 ppg would've been a "great" series as # 2


If you tell me at the begining, # 1 option will score 27 ppg & #2 option will score 15 ppg, I'd immediately tell you that team will loose NBA Finals in 5-6 games.

no matter what you do defensively & rebounding wise, a great player still needs to put up atleast 20 ppg in the Finals if he is top 2 players of the team.

You'll loose Finals for not putting up enough pts on the board

Kukoc, rodman, Kerr really saved Pippen in this Finals. MJ did not put enoug pts to help pippen out.

This was one tough fought Finals for this reason alone.

[Da_Realist]

Totally disagree.

Here are the reasons

A number 2, all-time great, Top 5 players of 1996 cannot ave 15.6 ppg in NBA Finals & expect it to be called a winning contribution

For a # 3 option, 15.6 is very good. For # 2, Pippen's stats are poor. Pippen should've ave 20-22 ppg to say he had a "good" series, 23-24 ppg would've been a "great" series as # 2


If you tell me at the begining, # 1 option will score 27 ppg & #2 option will score 15 ppg, I'd immediately tell you that team will loose NBA Finals in 5-6 games.

no matter what you do defensively & rebounding wise, a great player still needs to put up atleast 20 ppg in the Finals if he is top 2 players of the team.

You'll loose Finals for not putting up enough pts on the board

Kukoc, rodman, Kerr really saved Pippen in this Finals. MJ did not put enoug pts to help pippen out.

This was one tough fought Finals for this reason alone.

But they won. In 6 games. :confusedshrug: Scoring didn't win this series, defense and rebounding did.

[Calabis]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]Seattle coach George Karl said,

[Da_Realist]

So he played like ur hero, yet somehow u think he deserved his two MVPs

Ouch :oldlol:

[Rendezvous32]

:lol .....08 Celtics don't have Payton on the perimeter either...kobe always struggled against 2000's sonics....:no:

Yeah that's why he broke the NBA record for 3's in a game against them.

[Doranku]

Totally disagree.

Here are the reasons

A number 2, all-time great, Top 5 players of 1996 cannot ave 15.6 ppg in NBA Finals & expect it to be called a winning contribution

For a # 3 option, 15.6 is very good. For # 2, Pippen's stats are poor. Pippen should've ave 20-22 ppg to say he had a "good" series, 23-24 ppg would've been a "great" series as # 2


If you tell me at the begining, # 1 option will score 27 ppg & #2 option will score 15 ppg, I'd immediately tell you that team will loose NBA Finals in 5-6 games.

no matter what you do defensively & rebounding wise, a great player still needs to put up atleast 20 ppg in the Finals if he is top 2 players of the team.

You'll loose Finals for not putting up enough pts on the board

Kukoc, rodman, Kerr really saved Pippen in this Finals. MJ did not put enoug pts to help pippen out.

This was one tough fought Finals for this reason alone.

So Pippen doesn't even deserve to have his performance called a "winning contribution" for averaging 15 ppg while MJ averaged 27 ppg, but Gasol deserves the Finals MVP for averaging 18 ppg while Kobe averaged 28 ppg?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

So he played like ur hero, yet somehow u think he deserved his two MVPs
You talking about 2009 and 2010?

2009 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg

5th player to average a 30-5-5 Finals series
First player since Jerry West in '69 to put up 32 and 7 in a Finals series

2010 Finals
28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg

Most rebounds by a guard in a Finals series since '91
higher ppg, rpg, spg, bpg than Jordan in '96

:confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

Yeah that's why he broke the NBA record for 3's in a game against them.


Payton wasn't guarding him...and that's ONE game....:facepalm

[bwink23]

You talking about 2009 and 2010?

2009 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg

5th player to average a 30-5-5 Finals series
First player since Jerry West in '69 to put up 32 and 7 in a Finals series

2010 Finals
28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg



Most rebounds by a guard in a Finals series since '91
higher ppg, rpg, spg, bpg than Jordan in '96

:confusedshrug:



Which Jordan did if you round up, but BETTER:

1991 NBA Finals

32 and 11.......or 31.6 and 11.2 if you want to be technical...

:facepalm

[gengiskhan]

So Pippen doesn't even deserve to have his performance called a "winning contribution" for averaging 15 ppg while MJ averaged 27 ppg, but Gasol deserves the Finals MVP for averaging 18 ppg while Kobe averaged 28 ppg?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Please do not compare Kobe led lakers in garbage era to Golden '90s era of the NBA.

Kobe, Gasol never faced runner-up MVP + NBA DPOY & 64 games winning team in NBA Finals like 1996 Sonics.

If they ever did. Peyton's extreme physical Defense alone would've reduced prime peak kobe to 20-21 ppg scorer in NBA Finals.

no need to even bring kobe's 28 ppg finals performance against non-mvp, non-runnerup-mvp, non-dpoy lead finalists.

Its the opposition that decides how they wanna play you. & Sonics terrific D held MJ to 27 ppgs.

Pippen needed to ave 20 ppgs as 2nd best here more than any other finals. :coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Which Jordan did if you round up, but BETTER:

1991 NBA Finals

32 and 11.......or 31.6 and 11.2 if you want to be technical...

:facepalm
31.6 ppg doesn't equal 32

[bwink23]

31.6 ppg doesn't equal 32


:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm
why u so mad? :lol

[gengiskhan]

You talking about 2009 and 2010?

2009 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg

5th player to average a 30-5-5 Finals series
First player since Jerry West in '69 to put up 32 and 7 in a Finals series

2010 Finals
28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg

Most rebounds by a guard in a Finals series since '91
higher ppg, rpg, spg, bpg than Jordan in '96

:confusedshrug:

Did Kobe led Lakers faced MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did Kobe led Lakers faced runner-up MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did kobe led Lakers faced DPOY winner in the NBA Finals? NO!

1996 Sonics won 64 games. Had Runner-up MVP + had 1996 DPOY. A terrific finalist throwing everything at aging past his prime MJ.

Kobe's 30/5/5 is a joke compared to any MJ Finals.

2008 Magic as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF in '90s :roll:
2009 Celtics as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF alone because of old age in '90s. :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Did Kobe led Lakers faced MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did Kobe led Lakers faced runner-up MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did kobe led Lakers faced DPOY winner in the NBA Finals? NO!

1996 Sonics won 64 games. Had Runner-up MVP + had 1996 DPOY. A terrific finalist throwing everything at aging past his prime MJ.

Kobe's 30/5/5 is a joke compared to any MJ Finals.

2008 Magic as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF in '90s :roll:
2009 Celtics as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF alone because of old age in '90s. :roll:
most delusional fan bases

1. Wilt groupies
2. Jordan Jockers

[bwink23]

most delusional fan bases

1. Wilt groupies
2. Jordan Jockers


Calling Kobe Greatest of All Time is about as delusional as it gets....:no:

[juju151111]

most delusional fan bases

1. Wilt groupies
2. Jordan Jockers
Hold the **** on. You think Kobe finals in 2010 is better then 91 Mj finals

[97 bulls]

Totally disagree.

Here are the reasons

A number 2, all-time great, Top 5 players of 1996 cannot ave 15.6 ppg in NBA Finals & expect it to be called a winning contribution

For a # 3 option, 15.6 is very good. For # 2, Pippen's stats are poor. Pippen should've ave 20-22 ppg to say he had a "good" series, 23-24 ppg would've been a "great" series as # 2


If you tell me at the begining, # 1 option will score 27 ppg & #2 option will score 15 ppg, I'd immediately tell you that team will loose NBA Finals in 5-6 games.

no matter what you do defensively & rebounding wise, a great player still needs to put up atleast 20 ppg in the Finals if he is top 2 players of the team.

You'll loose Finals for not putting up enough pts on the board

Kukoc, rodman, Kerr really saved Pippen in this Finals. MJ did not put enoug pts to help pippen out.

This was one tough fought Finals for this reason alone.
You obviously aren't taking circumstances into account.
The bulls/sonics series was a low scoring series. Especially when compared to previous finals. The bulls only avg 79 shots per game. As a comparison, the 87 layers avg 92 shots per

Give credit to payton who defended him for 3 games.

And not to mention, he was injured

[gengiskhan]

most delusional fan bases

1. Wilt groupies
2. Jordan Jockers

You still havent answered my Question.

MJ led bulls faced great teams which were led:

1991: Runner-up MVP Magic
1992: Runner-up MVP Drexler
1993: NBA MVP Sir Charles
1996: Runner-up MVP Kemp + DPOY Peyton
1997: NBA MVP Malone
1998: Runner-up MVP Malone

Kobe Led Lakers

2008: MVP Kobe lost to bunch of senior citizens. :roll:
2009: Kobe beat NBA Newbies with newbie coach. :roll:
2010: Kobe beat bunch of senior citizens. :roll:

Its a reality check for all kobe'tards like you. :coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hold the **** on. You think Kobe finals in 2010 is better then 91 Mj finals
when did I say that?

[Ne 1]

Jun 17, 1996


However, when Jordan completed the unprecedented trifecta Sunday night by taking home the MVP of the NBA Finals, some critics cried foul. Dennis Rodman, they claim, merited more consideration, especially after his second 19-rebound performance of the series. (20 rebounds in Game 2)


"I don't know who got the MVP, but I do know Dennis Rodman won two games for them," Seattle coach George Karl said. "I thought we contained Michael pretty well throughout the series, but Dennis Rodman won two basketball games for Chicago. He won Game 2 and he was the reason they were successful tonight. They got a lot of extra possessions because of his 11 offensive rebounds. He got as many, or nearly as many, by himself as we did as a team." - George Karl after Game 6


Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

"Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2."

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like this is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You still havent answered my Question.

MJ led bulls faced great teams which were led:

1991: Runner-up MVP Magic
1992: Runner-up MVP Drexler
1993: NBA MVP Sir Charles
1996: Runner-up MVP Kemp + DPOY Peyton
1997: NBA MVP Malone
1998: Runner-up MVP Malone

Kobe Led Lakers

2008: MVP Kobe lost to bunch of senior citizens. :roll:
2009: Kobe beat NBA Newbies with newbie coach. :roll:
2010: Kobe beat bunch of senior citizens. :roll:

Its a reality check for all kobe'tards like you. :coleman:
:facepalm

More delusions :oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

Jun 17, 1996

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes



Guess that's why Jordan was Finals MVP then. He received more votes than Rodman and Kemp combined. You could have just typed this and saved the rest of the text son.

[OldSchoolBBall]

And not to mention, he was injured

When was Pippen NOT injured? Seems like in every series/game/season where he plays below standards he's injured. Convenient.

[97 bulls]

When was Pippen NOT injured? Seems like in every series/game/season where he plays below standards he's injured. Convenient.
Injuries tend to effect a players play. Why should pippen be treated differently?


Id also like to point out the amount of games pippen played in from 90 to 99. He played in evey playoff, including 6 championships, 2 ecfs (both of which went to 7 games), 2 semis (one which went 7 and the other 6), and participated in 2 olympics in which both times his teams went the distance and won gold.

That is a lot of basketball without any considerable amount of rest. No other player has had to play at such a high level for so long. And he was playing against some violent teams. Teams that were more thugs than basketball players.


I think you need to cut him some slack

[The Iron Fist]

Did Kobe led Lakers faced MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did Kobe led Lakers faced runner-up MVP in the NBA Finals? NO!

Did kobe led Lakers faced DPOY winner in the NBA Finals? NO!

1996 Sonics won 64 games. Had Runner-up MVP + had 1996 DPOY. A terrific finalist throwing everything at aging past his prime MJ.

Kobe's 30/5/5 is a joke compared to any MJ Finals.

2008 Magic as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF in '90s :roll:
2009 Celtics as finalist. This team will be out in ECSF alone because of old age in '90s. :roll:

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAJT125.jpg

http://5280collectible.com/images/ifs/THM-PHOTO3003K.jpg

In regards to facing an MVP, all 3 times the "Kobe led" Lakers played in the finals, the MVP was either Kobe himself, or the guy was gone fishing.

lol "did he face the MVP runner up".:facepalm

However, Kobe also faced a team with the MVP and DPOY, and won.

"you aint got to lie Craig"

[Cladyclad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepmd2ygMK4

Celtics 2008

[raptorfan_dr07]

So he played like ur hero, yet somehow u think he deserved his two MVPs

Gasol was the 2010 Finals MVP.

[Legends66NBA7]

Gasol was the 2010 Finals MVP.

Nah

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/280229-4/Kobe+Bryant+hoists+both+the+2010+NBA+Finals+MVP+tr ophy+and+the+NBA+Championship+trophy.JPG

[Force]

This makes the NBA look like such a joke today.

What would Rondo be doing for a living if the rules were still like this? Would JJ Barea have still been able to pull Miss Universe? Would Goran Dragic be a professional Tennis player? Would people be dumb enough to ask if Kobe was as good as Micheal?

[Living Being]

Thanks for posting.

2 Observations:

1)What an eye opener. The league 20 years ago was MUCH MORE PHYSICAL than it is today. Its amazing how the game has changed. What the NBA has done in the last 15 years to basketball, is very much like what the NFL has done over the same period to try and increase the passing game in football. Defenses are much more limited today. Jordan by today's rules would be much tougher to defend.

2) Jordan was very effective as a low post/ post up player. That is a lost art in todays game. We think of Jordan as streaking to the basket off the dribble, but like Bird, a SUBSTANTIAL amount of his points came from the post. Lebron James should see this and take notes.
I like this post except the bold. Any real MJ fan knows he did A LOT of posting up during his second 3peat.

[Force]

All the younger fans should take note of the paint on defense and how much more crowded it is when it's not illegal to play defense in the paint like it is today. Jeremy Lin would be working as a lawyer if the rules were still like this.

[Calabis]

You talking about 2009 and 2010?

2009 Finals
32.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 7.4 apg

5th player to average a 30-5-5 Finals series
First player since Jerry West in '69 to put up 32 and 7 in a Finals series

2010 Finals
28.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg

Most rebounds by a guard in a Finals series since '91
higher ppg, rpg, spg, bpg than Jordan in '96

:confusedshrug:

Lmao....learn to read ur fellow jockers posts, he is referring to Game 6, Jordan shooting 5 for 19 and having bad 4th quarter....please don't have me post Kobes numbers in 2010 dude is a career 40% shooter in the finals and has no memorable moments, those belong to Derek Fisher.

Also let's not post teammates production, I've been down this path, posted facts, u guys simply ignore all truths, then cry why people hate on Kobe. U sir are a prime example, see u do shit like this and think u proved some massive point, ur high fiv'n ur roommate who's probably on you tube spewing the same garbage. "We got'em now".........really, u guys somehow conjure up these bullshit theories and myths. Like ur post:

Find Jordans worst finals ever, against DPOY Payton, Second team all defense Nate McMillan, Askew, Schrempf, and Hawkins......take that series which is right on par with Kobes career final numbers, against Lee, Pietrus, Allen, Allen and Pierce, manipulate Kobes numbers by posting his basic stats, while ignoring his horrid fourth quarters throughout the Celtics series, his ability to watch Fisher rack up more clutch moments in those two series than Kobe has his entire finals career. Continue to ignore Jordans finals prior to and after this.....let's just hang on the one, which was Jordans first full season after a retirement

[bigt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepmd2ygMK4

Celtics 2008


Wow to whoever made that video. It almost sounds like as if he's going to cry at one moment there, or like the Celtics using the zone defense was unfair, because it meant that Kobe had to play against two or three guys instead of passing to a wide open man :oldlol: not to mention him trying to make Jordan look bad.

[Glide2keva]

Lmao....learn to read ur fellow jockers posts, he is referring to Game 6, Jordan shooting 5 for 19 and having bad 4th quarter....please don't have me post Kobes numbers in 2010 dude is a career 40% shooter in the finals and has no memorable moments, those belong to Derek Fisher.

Also let's not post teammates production, I've been down this path, posted facts, u guys simply ignore all truths, then cry why people hate on Kobe. U sir are a prime example, see u do shit like this and think u proved some massive point, ur high fiv'n ur roommate who's probably on you tube spewing the same garbage. "We got'em now".........really, u guys somehow conjure up these bullshit theories and myths. Like ur post:

Find Jordans worst finals ever, against DPOY Payton, Second team all defense Nate McMillan, Askew, Schrempf, and Hawkins......take that series which is right on par with Kobes career final numbers, against Lee, Pietrus, Allen, Allen and Pierce, manipulate Kobes numbers by posting his basic stats, while ignoring his horrid fourth quarters throughout the Celtics series, his ability to watch Fisher rack up more clutch moments in those two series than Kobe has his entire finals career. Continue to ignore Jordans finals prior to and after this.....let's just hang on the one, which was Jordans first full season after a retirement:applause:

Jordan's first Finals numbers destroys Kobe's career in the Finals, yet they want to hang on to 1996. When Jordan's WORST Finals is equal to Kobe CAREER Finals numbers, then there isn't much to be said.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:applause:

Jordan's first Finals numbers destroys Kobe's career in the Finals, yet they want to hang on to 1996. When Jordan's WORST Finals is equal to Kobe CAREER Finals numbers, then there isn't much to be said.



Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7

The toughest D Jordan faced in the Finals would be a below average Finals opponent for Kobe.

:confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7

The toughest D Jordan faced in the Finals would be a below average Finals opponent for Kobe.

:confusedshrug:
That defense rating shit is flawed. Maybe not I guess scrub teams are a better defensive team then 1996 bulls. Lmao according to ur ratings the teams that didn't even make the playoffs are better then the 90s bulls. Get ur dumb statistic out of here

[Yao Ming's Foot]

That defense rating shit is flawed. Maybe not I guess scrub teams are a better defensive team then 1996 bulls. Lmao according to ur ratings the teams that didn't even make the playoffs are better then the 90s bulls. Get ur dumb statistic out of here

:facepalm

Jordan mythologists...

- Love citing offensive statistics

- Hate when people point out the defensive statistics of the teams Jordan faced

:lol

[juju151111]

:facepalm

Jordan mythologists...

- Love citing offensive statistics

- Hate when people point out the defensive statistics of the teams Jordan faced

:lol
You mad ur stat got called out ages ago. Lol tell Kome to step his 40% shooting up

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You mad ur stat got called out ages ago. Lol tell Kome to step his 40% shooting up

Will do. Unfortunately defenses on Par with Jordan's era don't usually make the playoffs in this era, let alone the Finals.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Will do. Unfortunately defenses on Par with Jordan's era don't usually make the playoffs in this era, let alone the Finals.

Save the hyperbole for your fanbois.

League Drtg last year was 107.3. That means teams gave up 107.3 pts/100 possessions. That is pretty much EXACTLY the same as in 1996. In 97 the Drtg was 106.7. In '98 it was 105. Educate yourself.

[juju151111]

Will do. Unfortunately defenses on Par with Jordan's era don't usually make the playoffs in this era, let alone the Finals.
1996 bulls were scrub defensivly

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Save the hyperbole for your fanbois.

League Drtg last year was 107.3. That means teams gave up 107.3 pts/100 possessions. That is pretty much EXACTLY the same as in 1996. In 97 the Drtg was 106.7. In '98 it was 105. Educate yourself.

Kobe wasn't in the Finals last year and never faced a league average defense in the Finals. How is this relevant?

[madmax]

90's nostalgia tards always crack me up...
I've said it many times, I'll repeat it again - hard fouls DO NOT CONSTITUTE good defense. I thought this should be evident enough to anyone with half a brain? As for hanchecking, it was already partially removed in the early 80's and as the 90's rolled arround it was barely evident. Jordan got all the superstar calls that today's stars get as well. Stop rewriting history and making him some untouchable god.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

1996
http://i42.tinypic.com/ostwrs.jpg
1997
http://i39.tinypic.com/2zrox6r.jpg
2011
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ahtg6q.jpg

lol @ the BS. Other than Jersey, the teams who had an ABOVE average DRTG made the post season.

[D-Wade316]

Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7

The toughest D Jordan faced in the Finals would be a below average Finals opponent for Kobe.

:confusedshrug:
Nah. Those are Drtgs for the regular season. Better use playoff Drtg and make sure you compare them to league average.

91 Lakers - 109.6, 4th
92 Blazers - 110.1, 5th
93 Suns - 110.2, 13th
96 Sonics - 104.1, 7th
97 Jazz - 106.7, 5th
98 Jazz - 100.4, 1st

00 Pacers - 106.8, 12th
01 Sixers - 105.8, 9th
02 Nets - 102.3, 6th
04 Pistons - 92.0, 1st
08 Celtics - 103.3, 2nd
09 Magic - 105.3, 3rd
10 Celtics - 101.7 2nd

Kobe did face better defenses in the Finals, but not by much.

[OldSchoolBBall]

All the younger fans should take note of the paint on defense and how much more crowded it is when it's not illegal to play defense in the paint like it is today. Jeremy Lin would be working as a lawyer if the rules were still like this.

lol @ the bolded. :oldlol:

The paint was definitely more crowded in the 80's and 90's than today for three main reasons:

1) No defensive 3-second rule

2) Big men weren't generally "stretch big men" who could step out to 18-20 feet and hit jumpers, or, in some cases, threes. This meant that on offense they hovered in or near the lane; thus, their defenders did also. The result was clogged lanes and fewer angles to the basket. This is especially evident from '85-'91.

3) More and better big men shotblockers who took pride in protecting the paint either via shotblocking a la Dream/Mutombo or physical intimidation a la K. Malone/Oakley etc.

[eliteballer]

You herbs need to chill out. You're acting like they were playing football out there. Early to mid 00's were definitely more physical than the 80's-early 90's. Saying otherwise means you're either blind or in denial. Just because a few random hard fouls hadnt been actually labeled flagrant yet doesnt change that.

The Bad Boys were allowing more PPG than Don Nelsons Nash/Dirk Mavs. Yet you want to pretend it was World War 3 in those days.

A complete and utter joke.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Nah. Those are Drtgs for the regular season. Better use playoff Drtg and make sure you compare them to league average.

91 Lakers - 109.6, 4th
92 Blazers - 110.1, 5th
93 Suns - 110.2, 13th
96 Sonics - 104.1, 7th
97 Jazz - 106.7, 5th
98 Jazz - 100.4, 1st

00 Pacers - 106.8, 12th
01 Sixers - 105.8, 9th
02 Nets - 102.3, 6th
04 Pistons - 92.0, 1st
08 Celtics - 103.3, 2nd
09 Magic - 105.3, 3rd
10 Celtics - 101.7 2nd

Kobe did face better defenses in the Finals, but not by much.

Why do we compare defensive ratings to league average if we don't compare the offensive statistics born from those defensive ratings to league average as well?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lmao....learn to read ur fellow jockers posts, he is referring to Game 6, Jordan shooting 5 for 19 and having bad 4th quarter....please don't have me post Kobes numbers in 2010 dude is a career 40% shooter in the finals and has no memorable moments, those belong to Derek Fisher.

Also let's not post teammates production, I've been down this path, posted facts, u guys simply ignore all truths, then cry why people hate on Kobe. U sir are a prime example, see u do shit like this and think u proved some massive point, ur high fiv'n ur roommate who's probably on you tube spewing the same garbage. "We got'em now".........really, u guys somehow conjure up these bullshit theories and myths. Like ur post:

Find Jordans worst finals ever, against DPOY Payton, Second team all defense Nate McMillan, Askew, Schrempf, and Hawkins......take that series which is right on par with Kobes career final numbers, against Lee, Pietrus, Allen, Allen and Pierce, manipulate Kobes numbers by posting his basic stats, while ignoring his horrid fourth quarters throughout the Celtics series, his ability to watch Fisher rack up more clutch moments in those two series than Kobe has his entire finals career. Continue to ignore Jordans finals prior to and after this.....let's just hang on the one, which was Jordans first full season after a retirement
:oldlol:
What is wrong with these jockers?

[andgar923]

Some people have clearly never played basketball before.

Even when in today's game, whenever it gets remotely physical we can see how it clearly affects their game play.

Idiots trying to convince themselves that physical game is no big deal :lol and even more idiotic is these morons making it appear as if today's game is no different physical wise.

Fools.

[eliteballer]

Some people have clearly never played basketball before.

Even when in today's game, whenever it gets remotely physical we can see how it clearly affects their game play.

Idiots trying to convince themselves that physical game is no big deal :lol and even more idiotic is these morons making it appear as if today's game is no different physical wise.

Fools.

When you say you would take Rik Smits over Dwight Howard you lose all right to call anyone else a fool:roll:

[andgar923]

When you say you would take Rik Smits over Dwight Howard you lose any right to call anyone else a fool:roll:

I see you never have anything else to say, but to post shit that's outta context.

I'm the fool yet you believe Kobe >>> MJ... right.:rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When you say you would take Rik Smits over Dwight Howard you lose all right to call anyone else a fool:roll:

Well, Rik Smits was better on the offensive end...

[andgar923]

Well, Rik Smits was better on the offensive end...

In a Howard vs Smits matchup, I'm taking Smits 8 outta 10 times.

The slight edge goes over Howard defensively, but half the shit he does vs today's 6'10 weak centers aint gonna work on Smits, who was 7'4 with a long wingspan and very athletic (for his size) before his injuries.

If Smits played today, he'd be the best center.

People don't wanna believe me?

Bynum is considered the 2nd best center in the league at the moment :oldlol: . Smits was as skilled as Gasol, but taller and tougher (much tougher). There would be NOBODY that would be able to stop Smits. He'd kill you in the inside (who's gonna guard him?) and kill you in the outside as well (again, who's gonna guard him?). Even if you throw a double team at him, the rules are soft and he'd just shoot over most of them, from either the perimeter or the post. If Yao was damn near impossible to stop in the paint, imagine what a longer armed, more physical Smits would do.

[eliteballer]

:roll: WOW

You guys must take Illgauskus over Howard too

[andgar923]

:roll: WOW

You guys must take Illgauskus over Howard too
No

Stop making a fool outta yourself.

Maybe if you actually saw some basketball or at least understood it you wouldn't keep embarrassing ourself, and making a mockery out of L.A fans.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In a Howard vs Smits matchup, I'm taking Smits 8 outta 10 times.

The slight edge goes over Howard defensively, but half the shit he does vs today's 6'10 weak centers aint gonna work on Smits, who was 7'4 with a long wingspan and very athletic (for his size) before his injuries.

If Smits played today, he'd be the best center.

People don't wanna believe me?

Bynum is considered the 2nd best center in the league at the moment :oldlol: . Smits was as skilled as Gasol, but taller and tougher (much tougher). There would be NOBODY that would be able to stop Smits. He'd kill you in the inside (who's gonna guard him?) and kill you in the outside as well (again, who's gonna guard him?). Even if you throw a double team at him, the rules are soft and he'd just shoot over most of them, from either the perimeter or the post. If Yao was damn near impossible to stop in the paint, imagine what a longer armed, more physical Smits would do.

Good post, Andgar. I would probably take Dwight because of his defensive prowess (the impact a big has on the defensive end is immeasurable). Rik was the man though. As you said, the guy was like Pau but more physical.

[andgar923]

Good post, Andgar. I would probably take Dwight because of his defensive prowess (the impact a big has on the defensive end is immeasurable). Rik was the man though. As you said, the guy was like Pau but more physical.

But it won't be as if Smits would be a liability on the defensive end either. His height and wingspan alone would be trouble. Howard's defense comes from his athleticism, a prime athletic peak Smits wouldn't be that inferior to Howard defensively, while being significantly better offensively.

Actually today's game would be better suited for him than it was during his era, his numbers would jump up all across the board.

[madmax]

:roll: WOW

You guys must take Illgauskus over Howard too

:lol :roll:
Fookin Rik Smits owning the league today...I think I've heard it all now

[Legends66NBA7]

Fookin Rik Smits owning the league today...I think I've heard it all now

Why wouldn't he ?

:confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

:lol :roll:
Fookin Rik Smits owning the league today...I think I've heard it all now

Bynum is the 2nd best center in the league.

[andgar923]

Why wouldn't he ?

:confusedshrug:

They don't have a rebuttal, since they never really saw him play, or can't understand what he would be able to do in this era. They look at the stats and just assume that he'd suck.

[Legends66NBA7]

Bynum is the 2nd best center in the league.


They don't have a rebuttal, since they never really saw him play, or can't understand what he would be able to do in this era. They look at the stats and just assume that he'd suck.

Not only that...

It also should be noted that Smits was an all-star.. in 98. Vlade Divac was an all-star in the 2000's.

Yet, these guys wouldn't dominate in how the game's played today ? Sure, they might hinder them a little... but they were more or less finesse big men.

I mean Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, etc... are all-stars today. So I can see those guys dominate as well.

[andgar923]

Not only that...

It also should be noted that Smits was an all-star.. in 98. Vlade Divac was an all-star in the 2000's.

Yet, these guys wouldn't dominate in how the game's played today ? Sure, they might hinder them a little... but they were more or less finesse big men.

I mean Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, etc... are all-stars today. So I can see those guys dominate as well.
:facepalm

[eliteballer]

They don't have a rebuttal, since they never really saw him play, or can't understand what he would be able to do in this era. They look at the stats and just assume that he'd suck.

I dont need to bother rebutting someone when they say pigs can fly either:roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

:facepalm

Huh ?

When I meant "those guys", I'm referring to Smits and Divac.

If you thought today... I was talking about this era in general. Horford was an the all-star last 2 years and Hibbert an all-star this year.

[Doranku]

In a Howard vs Smits matchup, I'm taking Smits 8 outta 10 times.

The slight edge goes over Howard defensively, but half the shit he does vs today's 6'10 weak centers aint gonna work on Smits, who was 7'4 with a long wingspan and very athletic (for his size) before his injuries.

If Smits played today, he'd be the best center.

People don't wanna believe me?

Bynum is considered the 2nd best center in the league at the moment :oldlol: . Smits was as skilled as Gasol, but taller and tougher (much tougher). There would be NOBODY that would be able to stop Smits. He'd kill you in the inside (who's gonna guard him?) and kill you in the outside as well (again, who's gonna guard him?). Even if you throw a double team at him, the rules are soft and he'd just shoot over most of them, from either the perimeter or the post. If Yao was damn near impossible to stop in the paint, imagine what a longer armed, more physical Smits would do.

7'4" with a career average of 6.1 rebounds a game. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[eliteballer]

:roll: For the record I saw Smits play, there's not much difference between him and prime Illgauskus

[andgar923]

Huh ?

When I meant "those guys", I'm referring to Smits and Divac.

I was alluding to Hilbert and Horford being all stars....def :facepalm worthy.

[Legends66NBA7]

7'4" with a career average of 6.1 rebounds a game.

Roy Hibbert 7'2 with a career average of 6.4 rebounds per game = All-Star today.

[Legends66NBA7]

I was alluding to Hilbert and Horford being all stars....def :facepalm worthy.

Yeah for sure. Weakest era of centers, by far.

[LAClipsFan33]

Are people forgetting that Rik Smits was 7'4" with butter soft touch around the basket ? People who talk sh*t probably didn't see him pre injury before his foot problems became too much to handle

:confusedshrug:

He'd be an all star today

[Doranku]

Roy Hibbert 7'2 with a career average of 6.4 rebounds per game = All-Star today.

Hibbert's rebounding has been steadily increasing over the years and he's at 8.9 rebounds per game this year. Smits highest in his CAREER was 7.7 rpg. :roll:

[eliteballer]

Smits made the all star team when he played too, doesnt mean he was comparable to Alonzo Mourning:roll:

[eliteballer]

The Incrisingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret

andgars spelling skills ladies and gentleman.......:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Hibbert's rebounding has been steadily increasing over the years and he's at 8.9 rebounds per game this year. Smits highest in his CAREER was 7.7 rpg.

Yet his career high in ppg is what's he's currently averaging... and Smits trumps that 9 times in his career.

Again, I don't see how he doesn't play well today or doesn't get all-star nods in this era, when Hibbert and Horford are.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I dont need to bother rebutting someone when they say pigs can fly either:roll:

You're such an ignorant blowhard. You act like players of that ERA were cavemen; basketball hasn't changed THAT much the last 15 years. :oldlol:

[Gifted Mind]

While the comparison between Rik Smits and Roy Hibbert or Al Horford is reasonable, the comparison between Rik Smits and Dwight Howard is ludicrous. The same reason why when comparing Al Horford or Roy Hibbert to Dwight Howard, there is a clear answer.

[Calabis]

:facepalm

Jordan mythologists...

- Love citing offensive statistics

- Hate when people point out the defensive statistics of the teams Jordan faced

:lol

You started this crap last year, myself along with others destroyed this crap, yet ur still posting it:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You started this crap last year, myself along with others destroyed this crap, yet ur still posting it:facepalm

link?

:wtf:

[Calabis]

link?

:wtf:

Did u not see another poster tell u the same crap, go look at ur previous post, I'm not going to debate about the same shit myself and other posters destroyed u in, with facts, articles and data

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Did u not see another poster tell u the same crap, go look at ur previous post, I'm not going to debate about the same shit myself and other posters destroyed u in, with facts, articles and data

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for the link to the post in which I was destroyed.

:confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for the link to the post in which I was destroyed.

:confusedshrug:


Defensive rating says 2003 Wizards better than 1991 Chicago Bulls...

END OF FVCKING THREAD


COMMON SENSE FOOT.


http://diaryofasmartchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/foot-odor.gif

[Fatstogie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw&nomobile=1 I count so many plays that would of been called a foul today its not even funny
At 2:47..... i have to say

Lebron woulda blocked that shit

[Calabis]

Defensive rating says 2003 Wizards better than 1991 Chicago Bulls...

END OF FVCKING THREAD


COMMON SENSE FOOT.


http://diaryofasmartchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/foot-odor.gif

2mrow I will post a thread full of facts, its like u have to repeat it every year for these guys, ......tired of this era garbage like Jordan played in BC......these guys probably don't even play basketball. Its like when u go to the gym and some 40 year old is doing his thing, yet they can't fathom how good he may have been at 25, somehow he was worse because he didn't play against them.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Defensive rating says 2003 Wizards better than 1991 Chicago Bulls...

END OF FVCKING THREAD


COMMON SENSE FOOT.


http://diaryofasmartchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/foot-odor.gif

1991 era defensive ratings are inflated due to inflated offensive numbers from that era

:confusedshrug:

You are right it is common sense. You just want to accept the inflated offensive statistics without also accepting the inflated defensive ratings. :oldlol:

Like a Mark McGwire fan bragging about hitting HRs during the steroid era but crying when someone points out that opposing pitchers ERA was higher during that era as well

[bwink23]

1991 era defensive ratings are inflated due to inflated offensive numbers from that era

:confusedshrug:

You are right it is common sense. You just want to accept the inflated offensive statistics without also accepting the inflated defensive ratings. :oldlol:

Like a Mark McGwire fan bragging about hitting HRs during the steroid era but crying when someone points out that opposing pitchers ERA was higher during that era as well


If the defensive era stats are inflated as well, then why you keep trying to make direct comparisons ?? :confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If the defensive era stats are inflated as well, then why you keep trying to make direct comparisons ?? :confusedshrug:

Because Jordan mythologists are obsessed with comparing Jordans stats in the Finals during an era of offensive inflated basketball to Kobe's stats in the Finals against great defensive teams of this era.

:confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

Because Jordan mythologists are obsessed with comparing Jordans stats in the Finals during an era of offensive inflated basketball to Kobe's stats in the Finals against great defensive teams of this era.

:confusedshrug:

shots are shots no matter what, game pace doesn't determine superstar shot attempts....Jordan >>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Compare Jordan's Finals stats to ANYONE and he kicks their butt....

Get a clue FOOT. Kobe isn't and never will be on Jordan's level.

[Da_Realist]

2mrow I will post a thread full of facts, its like u have to repeat it every year for these guys, ......tired of this era garbage like Jordan played in BC......these guys probably don't even play basketball. Its like when u go to the gym and some 40 year old is doing his thing, yet they can't fathom how good he may have been at 25, somehow he was worse because he didn't play against them.

Don't bother. He's just going to wait 2 days and post the same bs numbers. Instead challenge him to post some videos of these great defenses that are so much better than when MJ played. Let's see him credit the defense when we see Kobe shoot contested threes over and over again instead of attacking it. I'm not an expert on Drtg but I'm willing to bet shooting up ill advised shots, too often making the hard play instead of the right one and going into hero ball starting in the 3rd quarter is a good way to make defenses look good. But it's just a guess.

[juju151111]

Don't bother. He's just going to wait 2 days and post the same bs numbers. Instead challenge him to post some videos of these great defenses that are so much better than when MJ played. Let's see him credit the defense when we see Kobe shoot contested threes over and over again instead of attacking it. I'm not an expert on Drtg but I'm willing to bet shooting up ill advised shots, too often making the hard play instead of the right one and going into hero ball starting in the 3rd quarter is a good way to make defenses look good. But it's just a guess.
The vids u are asking for will be just like vids posted for Mj the only difference is Kobe shot 40%

[1987_Lakers]

For a team that won 72 games during the season, they sure didn't look as dominant during the postseason. MJ & Pippen had their worst postseasons of their careers, Kukoc disappeared like he usually did during the postseason, Kerr's shot was off, the only player who played to his standards was Dennis Rodman. An old Knicks team that didn't even win 50 games played the Bulls to a hard fought 5 game series, Chicago caught a break in the ECF when Horace Grant went down and they fell asleep in the Finals once they had a 3-0 lead.

[SFMF]

:pimp: this is a different class of NBA champion.

[NumberSix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw&nomobile=1 I count so many plays that would of been called a foul today its not even funny
Fail

[ILLsmak]

O LOOK IT'S KOBE VS MJ AGAIN...

-Smak

[Da_Realist]

For a team that won 72 games during the season, they sure didn't look as dominant during the postseason. MJ & Pippen had their worst postseasons of their careers, Kukoc disappeared like he usually did during the postseason, Kerr's shot was off, the only player who played to his standards was Dennis Rodman. An old Knicks team that didn't even win 50 games played the Bulls to a hard fought 5 game series, Chicago caught a break in the ECF when Horace Grant went down and they fell asleep in the Finals once they had a 3-0 lead.

And yet, they went 15-3. Pretty tough to beat that. I know the 83 Sixers went 12-1, the 91 Bulls went 15-2 and the 01 Lakers went 15-1. Is there anyone else that did better?

[Da_Realist]

For a team that won 72 games during the season, they sure didn't look as dominant during the postseason. MJ & Pippen had their worst postseasons of their careers, Kukoc disappeared like he usually did during the postseason, Kerr's shot was off, the only player who played to his standards was Dennis Rodman. An old Knicks team that didn't even win 50 games played the Bulls to a hard fought 5 game series, Chicago caught a break in the ECF when Horace Grant went down and they fell asleep in the Finals once they had a 3-0 lead.

Plus, it's difficult when you have 72 wins hanging over your head. Teams were gunning after them just to win a game. To hold that kind of focus throughout the regular season is remarkable. They relaxed after going up 3-0 in the Finals but it was one of the very few times they relaxed all year.

Everyone expected them to win every playoff game and to win it by 15 a game. That's an unbelievable amount of pressure. I'd love to see how another team does in the playoffs after winning more than 72 games. The 72 Lakers went 12-3 in the playoffs after setting the mark at 69 wins. That's really the only comparison to make to the 96 Bulls.

[OldSchoolBBall]

An old Knicks team that didn't even win 50 games played the Bulls to a hard fought 5 game series, Chicago caught a break in the ECF when Horace Grant went down and they fell asleep in the Finals once they had a 3-0 lead.

lol @ this tendentious rhetoric. :oldlol: "Hard fought 5 game series"? I'm going to let you read that again. Is that a 7 game series? A 6 game series, even? No, it's a 5 game series. And Jordan had severe back spasms that series (well-documented) and Kukoc was also injured (plantar fasciitis). Chicago "caught a break" when Grant got hurt despite the fact that they beat Orlando 3-1 in the season series? Get your head examined. :oldlol: And yes, they took their foot off the gas after game 3 of the Finals. Sometimes a team so close to the goal can lose focus when they're up big - they needed a mental break too after being supremely focused during the entire season.

[1987_Lakers]

lol @ this tendentious rhetoric. :oldlol: "Hard fought 5 game series"? I'm going to let you read that again. Is that a 7 game series? A 6 game series, even? No, it's a 5 game series. And Jordan had severe back spasms that series (well-documented) and Kukoc was also injured (plantar fasciitis). Chicago "caught a break" when Grant got hurt despite the fact that they beat Orlando 3-1 in the season series? Get your head examined. :oldlol: And yes, they took their foot off the gas after game 3 of the Finals. Sometimes a team so close to the goal can lose focus when they're up big - they needed a mental break too after being supremely focused during the entire season.

Don't get so defensive dude. They went 15-3, but I always wondered how their postseason record was so good despite have poor statistics individually. The Bulls-Knicks series might have been only 5 games, but it was still hard fought. NY lost its 4 games by 7, 11, 3, & 13, not bad when you consider that Chicago won 25 more games than NY during the regular season. Chicago still would of easily beat Orlando even with a healthy Grant, but that injury robbed Orlando out of atleast 1 victory.

[Calabis]

Don't bother. He's just going to wait 2 days and post the same bs numbers. Instead challenge him to post some videos of these great defenses that are so much better than when MJ played. Let's see him credit the defense when we see Kobe shoot contested threes over and over again instead of attacking it. I'm not an expert on Drtg but I'm willing to bet shooting up ill advised shots, too often making the hard play instead of the right one and going into hero ball starting in the 3rd quarter is a good way to make defenses look good. But it's just a guess.

I have some, unfortunately I'm on my phone....what's even more remarkable is Kobetards refer to it as a physical series lol