Better defender in his prime: Kobe or LeBron?

[sbw19]

http://i44.tinypic.com/j6032s.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEgAwjKTcIM

All-D 1st team 8 times, 2nd twice
Notable: averaged 1.48spg/0.95bpg in playoffs in years he won titles




http://i44.tinypic.com/vyh06.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8-DuEFpPqE

All-D 1st team 3 times
Notable stats: averaged 1.68spg/0.88bpg in playoffs in years he made finals

____

I got Kobe by a hair. Better on-ball defender, very good help defender. Who you got?

[jb220]

LeBron. Just too physically gifted, Kobe has always had relatively average athleticism.

[Whoah10115]

Kobe was 1st Team 9 times (3-4 too many).




I would only have put Lebron 1st Team once...maybe twice.





Kobe is a better man defender. Lebron is more a playmaker. The way Lebron is right now, it's hard to say...I think I'll go with Kobe right now...02/03 and 07/08 are the seasons that really stand out. Lebron right now is a legit DPOTY.

[arifgokcen]

Even though kobe has 9 all defense selections,he have never had the impact lebron is having on the defensive side.Kobe's defensive impact have not been beyond his individual defense.

In terms of impact lebron is miles ahead,dont forget lebron can virtually guard and more importantly locks down any player especially in 4th quarters.Lebron has been nominated for DPOY for second time and he has a very strong case for it

Kobe,even with all defensive selections which i have never understood seeing lakers havent been top 5 defensively for 12 straight years,has no case at all over lebron in his prime of course


LeBron. Just too physically gifted, Kobe has always had relatively average athleticism.
Average athleticism!!!
Are you kidding me.Ok lebron is probably the most athletic player in modern era however kobe has been very athletic especially in his 20s he would dunk on anybody.Just go watch prime kobe

[DuMa]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time. he had maybe 2-3 years of being worthy of being on the all defensive team.

[Rendezvous32]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time. he had maybe 2-3 years of being worthy of being on the all defensive team.

How in the world is it possible to have over 20,000 posts of nothing but bullshit?

[SavageMode]

Can Kobe defend all 5 positions? Nope.

< Lebron

/thread

[Scholar]

I can honestly say that at times I feel like Kobe is placed on the All-Defensive 1st Team simply because of his name and not because of his defense. Don't get me wrong here. Kobe is a great defensive player, but he's probably been an All-Defensive 1st Team player a handful of times in his career. More of a 2nd Team guy imo.

I think LeBron is the better defender simply because his height can, does and will ward off offensive players a bit, making them rethink their shots, rethink driving into the lane, rethink passing the ball anywhere in the lanes.

[talkingconch]

inb4 shitstorm

[arifgokcen]

Anyway this is not a thread worthy.I dont think anyone will disagree on who is better

When we talk about lebron we are comparing him to centers in terms of defense.This should tell you how good he really is

[Heavincent]

How in the world is it possible to have over 20,000 posts of nothing but bullshit?

I don't know, but he found a way to pull it off.

Anyway, it's Kobe and I don't think it's even that close. Prime Kobe was a complete lockdown defender. Honestly one of the best perimeter defenders I have ever seen.

[nba_55]

Lebron since he s more versatile

[arifgokcen]

I don't know, but he found a way to pull it off.

Anyway, it's Kobe and I don't think it's even that close. Prime Kobe was a complete lockdown defender. Honestly one of the best perimeter defenders I have ever seen.

OK he is postin bullshit but what do you think you are posting.Lebron is not a complete lockdown defender???

Rose is the most explosive player in the leageu.ISH had a poll on this one.Rose couldnt even score on him.Lebron can do this while locking down gasol(according to ISH most skilled big in entire league) who is easily 5 inches taller than lebron.

Lebron one on one defense is very underrated.You really think kobe would be able to lock down rose or any player lebron defends better than bron

Now thats very interesting that you can post 5000 posting bullshit

[Harison]

Lebron because of his overall impact, however prime Kobe could lock down his man better than Lebron.

[jdm_dc_fan]

How is this even questionable. Lebron.

[SFMF]

Let me ruin this thread:

what about offensively?

[kenny817]

Can Kobe defend all 5 positions? Nope.

< Lebron

/thread

Bron can't even guard 6'2 Jason Terry

lulz

[kenny817]

I don't know, but he found a way to pull it off.

Anyway, it's Kobe and I don't think it's even that close. Prime Kobe was a complete lockdown defender. Honestly one of the best perimeter defenders I have ever seen.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Lebron

[abraxas666]

Lebron is a better shotblocker, I dont think he can move fast enough to guard fast point guards, but seems to make that up by making most of his blocks from blindspots.

Kobe can play better one on one defense but he should not been awarded so many first defensive team awards.

[Force]

Kobe's 1st team all defenses are unbelievably bogus. I love it when Doug Collins called him out for this years ago saying coaches just voted for him because they were too lazy to really think it over. Kobe at his best was a good defender but nowhere near the impact Lebron has.

[andgar923]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time.

[D-Wade316]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time.
This.

[chazzy]

Both overrated, Lebron better overall. He covers so much ground with his help d. Kobe was a better man defender and played better ball denial, but Lebron's ability to help and recover and get back in transition makes him more impactful.

[BigTicket]

Kobe was the better man-to-man defender, while Lebron is much more versatile.

Which one is better really depends on the rest of the team, since that will determine which quality you need more.

[andgar923]

I'm not even sure I'd call Kobe a great one on one defender as many seem to allude to or believe.

He's had his moments sure, but in order to be a great defender they need consistency, and Kobe hasn't demonstrated that in his entire career.

Even some of the most reasonably ardent Kobe fans will acknowledge that Kobe picks and chooses when he wants to play defense, which is an acknowledgement that he's inconsistent.

I've seen nobodies get career highs ON Kobe, and I've seen many players light him up far more consistently than he's stopped or locked down. Kobe would get good defensively play that gets tons of views, but people would ignore the shitload of defensive mistakes and simply his carelessness/laziness. Just like with his shots, game winners etc.... people concentrate on his shining moments but are blind to the FACT that he's failed more than he's shined.

Now... Bron at least tries to play hard more frequently and is obviously superior on the open court and as a help man. One on one he gets outmatched because he's not as quick laterally and tends to have a bad defensive posture compared to Kobe. Bron also lacks some of Kobe's defensive awareness in one on one situations (again... when Kobe wants to play defense). But one of the most important defensive principles is WANTING to play defense, and Bron just happens to wanna play defense more than Kobe. And imo that's what separates Bron from Kobe even more than his athleticism.

IF Kobe had wanted to focus more on defense like Bron has, his athleticism wasn't so underwhelming (when compared to Bron) that he wouldn't be able to be more disruptive. His instincts, reflexes, and overall IQ are better than Bron's.

[Smoke117]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time.

Fact. Better defender? Lebron, easily.

[Sakkreth]

What kind of joke is this ? Kobe's defense so overrated...

[arifgokcen]

Lebron is a better shotblocker, I dont think he can move fast enough to guard fast point guards, but seems to make that up by making most of his blocks from blindspots.

Kobe can play better one on one defense but he should not been awarded so many first defensive team awards.
Derrick rose is the fastest pg in the league.Lebron literally crushed him.Besides iverson,rose may be the fastest and most agile pg of alltime.

I think he is by far the best pg defender in the league.However,His versatility what makes him so good.He is heats best center,pf,pg,sg,pg.(defensively).

[donald_trump]

kobe was one of the best i've seen at denying his man the ball. if not the best.

but, some of you saying kobe is better man to man than lebron? get real. lebron is honestly one of the best man to man defenders i've seen. that is his forte, not help D.

lebron has this to answer the question.

[G-Funk]

Kobe is by FAR a better 1 on 1 defender...a pretty good help defender... Lebron is not that great of a 1on1 defensive player his physical body makes him a a good defender but Hes not a player that scares u defensively.

[YAWN]

you can really spot the young ones who weren't watching the NBA 10 years ago in this thread. :facepalm

[eliteballer]

"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4972/it-s-the-lakers-court-but-it-s-the-celtics-house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoyPZDCzrXM

[thelucifer69]

According to stats Lebron better defender than Kobe.

[StateOfMind12]

It is pretty clear that either

A.) People forgot how terrific Kobe was on the defensive end in the early 2000s

or

B.) People started watching basketball and Kobe in 2006.

[bmulls]

Kobe was capable of being a lock down defender, but he didn't do it consistently.

Let's not act like his defense being overrated is a huge surprise, analysts have been saying it for years. The last few 1st team Defense awards have been a total joke.

[bmulls]

Bron can't even guard 6'2 Jason Terry

lulz

Kobe was getting beat by the corpse of Peja Stojakovic

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe was getting beat by the corpse of Peja Stojakovic
Too bad Kobe wasn't in his prime last season while LeBron was.


Kobe was capable of being a lock down defender, but he didn't do it consistently.

Let's not act like his defense being overrated is a huge surprise, analysts have been saying it for years. The last few 1st team Defense awards have been a total joke.
When Kobe was in his defensive prime which was in the early 2000s with Shaq, he was by far the best perimeter defender in the league.

[Bond007]

How in the world is it possible to have over 20,000 posts of nothing but bullshit?
LOL :roll:

[Bond007]

It is pretty clear that either

A.) People forgot how terrific Kobe was on the defensive end in the early 2000s

or

B.) People started watching basketball and Kobe in 2006.

+1

[CardiacKemba]

It is pretty clear that either

A.) People forgot how terrific Kobe was on the defensive end in the early 2000s

or

B.) People started watching basketball and Kobe in 2006.

True. I would take Kobe for 1 on 1 defending a superstar perimeter, but LeBron overall due his versatility and combination of size and speed.

[magnax1]

Career wise right now it's easily Kobe. I don't think Lebron was any where near deserving of his all defensive selections in 09 and 10, but these past two years he's been better then Kobe ever was. Kobe had 8-10 seasons worthy of all defensive selection though.

[JustinJDW]

Kobe has been highlight overrated as a defender throughout his career, and especially is today. It really is that simple. Not a Lebron fan at all but the dude has so much raw physical talent that its ridiculous. He can bascially defend all five positions on the court.

The answer is obvious.

[Lebron23]

LeBron. This season he's one of the best defenders in the NBA.

[skaterbasist]

Kobe would be one of the all-time great defenders if he was more consistent with his defense. But at this age, I think he exerts most of his energy scoring and play-making. That doesn't leave him with much on the defensive end.

An example of how great Kobe can be on the other end (lockdown defense on Wade):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iou1L27tyZI

[j3lademaster]

LeBron. Just too physically gifted, Kobe has always had relatively average athleticism.

So only the likes of Bron, Rose, Wall, Gerald Green, Blake Griffin can be labelled as "athletic" out of the plays today? I mean, that's fine; I just wanted to get your standards of what is athletic. Prime Kobe looked pretty athletic to me.

[shrempf_on_rice]

To the ones that are saying Kobe's 1st team defense were not earned, u do realize that the coaches vote for those selections right?

I guess 15 people on ish and some random journalists know more about opposing players defense better than 29 coaches year in and year out.

as recent as a few years ago kobe was still a premiere defender, did u not watch the olympics he inspired the whole team to play defense..

right now lebron is a better defender no question because kobe is getting old but most people still use kobe as a measuring stick on comparisons even today.

[Big#50]

Shaw, Fox, Harper were better perimeter defenders during the three peat. Kobe has never been a top 5 defender in any season. I have never seen him make one great defensive play.

[sundizz]

Shaw, Fox, Harper were better perimeter defenders during the three peat. Kobe has never been a top 5 defender in any season. I have never seen him make one great defensive play.

What about blocking Sabonis to end the series?

[Heavincent]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time.

That honor belongs to Lebron.

[SilkkTheShocker]

That honor belongs to Lebron.


This guy would blow Kobe until his d1ck turned white ^^^^

[KenneBell]

It's really close. Kobe from 2000-2004 was pretty damn good. Of course, the trolls on here won't admit that and many have simply forgot due to time. Quick hands, long arms, elite lateral quickness. The fact that he would even be considered to guard prime Iverson at his height should say something. And he did a pretty good job of it.

I think his defense in the '08-'10 playoffs was also pretty elite especially considering how much foot speed he'd lost compared to the early 2000's. People really underrate his effect on Rondo against Boston.

Lebron has the versatility advantage for sure.

[Rendezvous32]

It's really close. Kobe from 2000-2004 was pretty damn good. Of course, the trolls on here won't admit that and many have simply forgot due to time. Quick hands, long arms, elite lateral quickness. The fact that he would even be considered to guard prime Iverson at his height should say something. And he did a pretty good job of it.

I think his defense in the '08-'10 playoffs was also pretty elite especially considering how much foot speed he'd lost compared to the early 2000's. People really underrate his effect on Rondo against Boston.

Lebron has the versatility advantage for sure.

He's like the only person I've seen who can sag off of Rondo yet still render him ineffective.

[c3z4r]

I see people constantly saying that lebron is a better help defender therefore the edge goes to him, but if we were to look at stats, in the 2002-2003 season kobe averaged 2.2 steals and 0.8 blocks, numbers which james has never averaged in a season, the most he got was 1.9 steals in his sophomore season and 1.8 steals this season.

As for blocks, the most james has averaged was 1.1 in 08 and then again in 09, but this season he's averaging 0.8 blocks/game.

So, if we were to go along with the numbers, kobe was a better help defender in his prime than lebron is and I hope and believe that everybody knows that Kobe's man to man defense was superior to that of LeBron.

Btw, please stop saying that lebron could guard all 5 positions on the floor, because he can't. Maybe 1-4, although he struggles guarding many pg's. Prepares for incoming: But, but, but Lebron shut Rose down, he absolutely stopped him.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is a highly overrated defender. He is a good solid defender in his prime peak. But nothing more.

NBA media, ESPN & many today's fans are trying to make him out to be great defender which he never was. & his SPG stats will show just that. Kobe has never been in Top 3 steals for single season in his career if I'm correct let alone be a steals leader for a season.

Kobe also never had a defensive shut down series like LBJ did in ECF against Bulls last year.

LBJ is a very good defender
Kobe is a good defender.

LBJ beat him. :coleman:

But neither are at the level of being called "great" defenders.

[rmt]

Kobe is a highly overrated defender. He is a good solid defender in his prime peak. But nothing more.

NBA media, ESPN & many today's fans are trying to make him out to be great defender which he never was. & his SPG stats will show just that. Kobe has never been in Top 3 steals for single season in his career if I'm correct let alone be a steals leader for a season.

Kobe also never had a defensive shut down series like LBJ did in ECF against Bulls last year.

LBJ is a very good defender
Kobe is a good defender.

LBJ beat him. :coleman:

But neither are at the level of being called "great" defenders.

This. LOL at Kobe's recent, undeserving all-defensive 1st teams - talk about living by "superstar reputation" and by-passing the real defensive specialists like Tony Allen. Disgusting.

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe's 1st team all defenses are unbelievably bogus. I love it when Doug Collins called him out for this years ago saying coaches just voted for him because they were too lazy to really think it over. Kobe at his best was a good defender but nowhere near the impact Lebron has.

Yet, its partly because of Kobes d that he has five rings while bronz has two finals failures.

[j3lademaster]

I see people constantly saying that lebron is a better help defender therefore the edge goes to him, but if we were to look at stats, in the 2002-2003 season kobe averaged 2.2 steals and 0.8 blocks, numbers which james has never averaged in a season, the most he got was 1.9 steals in his sophomore season and 1.8 steals this season.

As for blocks, the most james has averaged was 1.1 in 08 and then again in 09, but this season he's averaging 0.8 blocks/game.

So, if we were to go along with the numbers, kobe was a better help defender in his prime than lebron is and I hope and believe that everybody knows that Kobe's man to man defense was superior to that of LeBron.

Btw, please stop saying that lebron could guard all 5 positions on the floor, because he can't. Maybe 1-4, although he struggles guarding many pg's. Prepares for incoming: But, but, but Lebron shut Rose down, he absolutely stopped him.

Oh, so now numbers matter for Kobe vs. Lebron comparison... when it favors Kobe right? Lebron averaged 2.2 steals and 0.7 blocks his sophomore season btw. With more defensive rebounds. So he actually has better peak defensive numbers, try again.

[The Iron Fist]

Oh, so now numbers matter for Kobe vs. Lebron comparison... when it favors Kobe right? Lebron averaged 2.2 steals and 0.7 blocks his sophomore season btw. With more defensive rebounds. So he actually has better peak defensive numbers, try again.
More defensive rebounds?

a front court player should get more. Hes in the paint.

[thelucifer69]

Yet, its partly because of Kobes d that he has five rings while bronz has two finals failures.

Bill Rusell has 11 rings is he better offense than Kobe?

Defense Lebron >>> Kobe deal with it.

[caliman]

Shaw, Fox, Harper were better perimeter defenders during the three peat. Kobe has never been a top 5 defender in any season. I have never seen him make one great defensive play.


Just stop :no:

[rodman91]

Overall = Lebron.
One on One = Kobe.
Versality= Lebron by far.
Team Defense= Lebron by far.

[brownmamba00]

http://gifsoup.com/view4/3635340/kobe-o.gif
http://gifsoup.com/view4/3635340/kobe-o.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLg15UIRLY

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe and it aint even close...

elite defense = Kobe

stretched defense = Kobe

all defensive teams = Kobe

one on one = Kobe

team defense = Kobe

chsing someone down and swatting out of bounds = Lebron

5 - 1 = Kobe

[Calabis]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time. he had maybe 2-3 years of being worthy of being on the all defensive team.

I agree, its about the only time he went out with a shut down attitude, article from a few years back, but we are speking prime, so Kobe when he actually played defense


Kobe on his career has the mesmerizing quantity of 8 first place votes for the award... 8 VOTES in his CAREER! Tim Duncan has 43, Pippen 52, These are the players who never won, just like Kobe..


Kobe is by no means the most decorated guard defensively according to the writers... Gary Payton has 132 first place votes, Michael Jordan 65, Alvin Robertson 59, Michael Cooper 34, Mookie Blaylock 25, Doug Christie 14, Eddie Jones 12... just to name a few...

Kobe simply doesn't measure up. Stats don't lie. Defensive Rating is a measure of how many points you allow or stop per 100 possessions... The All time leader is Elmore Smith with 93.72, 2nd Tim Duncan with 94.99, 4th Ben Wallace with 95.37 and then you will see a list of the truly outstanding defenders the NBA had to offer... Even sleepers like Manu Ginobili who sneak in at 25th all time... Where is Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant? Scroll down and you will find the 4th most decorated defensive player lying at the humble spot of 239th on the all time list... with a shade under 105 ppg for DRtg.

[DMAVS41]

I think Kobe in his best days was a slightly better defender overall, but it didn't last long enough and was often, even in his young days, too inconsistent.

Kobe is easily the most over-rated defensive player of all time.

If Lebron continues to play defense at this level he has since 08 or so for the next few years....Lebron should go down as the superior defender.

While Lebron can't guard players one on one as well as Kobe, he's still good in this area. But in terms of help side, defensive rebounding, versatility, transition defense...pretty much everything better than Kobe other than 1 on 1.

So I'll take Kobe at his peak, but Lebron pretty easily overall because he's far more consistent.

[Calabis]

I think Kobe in his best days was a slightly better defender overall, but it didn't last long enough and was often, even in his young days, too inconsistent.

Kobe is easily the most over-rated defensive player of all time.

If Lebron continues to play defense at this level he has since 08 or so for the next few years....Lebron should go down as the superior defender.

While Lebron can't guard players one on one as well as Kobe, he's still good in this area. But in terms of help side, defensive rebounding, versatility, transition defense...pretty much everything better than Kobe other than 1 on 1.

So I'll take Kobe at his peak, but Lebron pretty easily overall because he's far more consistent.

:applause:

[andgar923]

Kobe was flanked by good to great defenders for most of his career, and he had Shaq and big men to help him out.

I've seen many plays in which Kobe 'supposedly' played good defense, when he actually didn't. He'd get beat off the dribble and the big men would cover for his ass. Like somebody mentioned, he also had solid help on the perimeter as well. Fisher even today is known as a good defender even tho he gets beat by faster players, but has a high iq and is good at helping. When he was in his prime, Fish was great, and so were the other defenders that flanked Kobe, even tho some may have been past their prime were still smart.

Put Bron in his position and he'd be a far more effective defensive player as well.

There was also an 82 games article that basically agrees what I've been saying all along. Kobe is inconsistent and gets tons of praise for the few times he is successful, but his lapses are more than his successes.

In short, Kobe is a good defensive player from time to time, but not great, specially not an all nab defense 1st team. Maybe All NBA Defense 2nd team in his supposed prime (if that).

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe's best defensive days weren't really in his "prime". Prime Kobe as far as complete skill set and athleticism/before injuries and age took their toll was '03-'09, though he was a top 3 player as early as '01 and as late as '10.

But I'll go with his "defensive prime". His best defensive season was 2000 and he was arguably the best perimeter defender that season. He really was a phenomenal on the ball defender, and he usually guarded point guards and did have an impact as far as teams getting into their offense. He had the ability to guard smaller, quicker players remarkably well for his size, for example, the Allen Iverson game in 2000 was when he first started getting a lot of publicity for his defense, iirc. Defensive stats don't interest me much, particularly for perimeter players, but Kobe averaged 1 bpg in the 62 games he started in '00.

He was at his best when he was guarding point guards, which he still did for most of '01 before Harper went down and Fisher eventually replaced him. Not quite as good defensively as in '00, but pretty close. His best defensive years were during the 3peat, his effort became less consistent when he started scoring more, and particularly with the injuries in '04 and '05(though probably more due to his heavier weight and the more ball-dominant role the latter year). But he was very good defensively in '08 again. Though even in the years between then, he'd often take the challenge on guarding the other team's best player, and could still do a damn good job. Surprisingly in '06 while scoring 35 ppg, he did this a number of times and showed his man to man defense was still elite.

He was definitely a better on the ball defender than Lebron. But Lebron has really improved defensively the last 4-5 years, and particularly the last 2 in Miami. I'd agree that he's the better help defender, and wouldn't necessarily argue with those who say he has a bigger impact because of that.

[rodman91]

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/6325/aivskobe.png

:oldlol:

[arifgokcen]

I dont understand this biased notion against lebron.Everyone thinks he is average one on one defender.

He regularly guards the best player during close games fourth quarters and he has completely locked down every player especially in 4th quarters.

Just look at some of the games
Melo was scorching hot and went 1-6 in 4th against bron
Durant again very hot but completely shut down by bron.
Gasol couldnt even get the ball during 4th quarter because of bron
Look what he did to rose during ECF or first game against bulls this season.

These players are some of the best scorers at their positions.

Dont get me wrong kobe was fantastic defender however he has never been the best defender let alone best wing defender.Metta,Bowen was clearly better.

[inclinerator]

surprise no more ppl are picking kobe

[Cangri]

Overall = Lebron.
One on One = Kobe.
Versality= Lebron by far.
Team Defense= Lebron by far.
This.

No question Kobe is the better on ball defender.

[c3z4r]

Oh, so now numbers matter for Kobe vs. Lebron comparison... when it favors Kobe right? Lebron averaged 2.2 steals and 0.7 blocks his sophomore season btw. With more defensive rebounds. So he actually has better peak defensive numbers, try again.

bro, I'm probably the most unbiased poster on this forum, or at least top 5, so don't start with this numbers matter shit, as if i tried to skew them or something. I took the year in which most people consider kobe to have been at his best defensively,b/c he put in the effort and actually tried to dominate at both ends of the floor. So i took his best defensive year from his prime and compared it to lebron's prime, which most people consider to have started in 09, although many find that his defensive game has only started to have significant impact in the past 2 years.

So, do you actually believe lebron's defensive prime was in his sophomore year?

I mean even if you do believe that, then kobe would still have better help defense numbers, 0.8 blocks/game > 0.7 blocks/game, same amount of steals/game, but his man defense would be in another stratosphere when compared to lebron's sophomore year, while when compared to today it much closer.

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe shuts his man down in the 4th quarter. LeBron shuts his team down. Same thing really.

[Smoke117]

Kobe's best defensive days weren't really in his "prime". Prime Kobe as far as complete skill set and athleticism/before injuries and age took their toll was '03-'09, though he was a top 3 player as early as '01 and as late as '10.

But I'll go with his "defensive prime". His best defensive season was 2000 and he was arguably the best perimeter defender that season. He really was a phenomenal on the ball defender, and he usually guarded point guards and did have an impact as far as teams getting into their offense. He had the ability to guard smaller, quicker players remarkably well for his size, for example, the Allen Iverson game in 2000 was when he first started getting a lot of publicity for his defense, iirc. Defensive stats don't interest me much, particularly for perimeter players, but Kobe averaged 1 bpg in the 62 games he started in '00.

He was at his best when he was guarding point guards, which he still did for most of '01 before Harper went down and Fisher eventually replaced him. Not quite as good defensively as in '00, but pretty close. His best defensive years were during the 3peat, his effort became less consistent when he started scoring more, and particularly with the injuries in '04 and '05(though probably more due to his heavier weight and the more ball-dominant role the latter year). But he was very good defensively in '08 again. Though even in the years between then, he'd often take the challenge on guarding the other team's best player, and could still do a damn good job. Surprisingly in '06 while scoring 35 ppg, he did this a number of times and showed his man to man defense was still elite.

He was definitely a better on the ball defender than Lebron. But Lebron has really improved defensively the last 4-5 years, and particularly the last 2 in Miami. I'd agree that he's the better help defender, and wouldn't necessarily argue with those who say he has a bigger impact because of that.

I don't know about that as Scottie Pippen was still a great defensive player even at 34 years old that season. He got bumped off the all nba defensive first team because this was when Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett started annually making it every year. No shame getting bumped by two big men like them two especially when you are 34. Either way Pippen was definitely a better help defender than Kobe.

[G-Funk]

LeBron. This season he's one of the best defenders in the NBA.
I agree Leb4on really stepped up his defense last year and this yr took it to another level.. He could play more on ball defense more often.

[G-Funk]

One thing about Kobe from 96-2009 is that he would always like to play the best player at his position. He would take on the challenge. But now players like Lebron and Wade( this no offense to them) they have other "defensive" stoppers on their team playing the best perimeter player.


You even saw that Kobe going at it vs Pierce & Allen in 08 and 10 he asked to take on Rondo... Lebron didnt do that until last yrs playoffs vs Rose

[gengiskhan]

corrected for retard. :coleman:


Kobe and it aint even close...

elite defense = lebron

stretched defense = lebron

all defensive teams = Kobe

one on one = neither

team defense = Lebron

chsing someone down and swatting out of bounds = Lebron

4 - 1 = Lebron

[gengiskhan]

Kobe was capable of being a lock down defender, but he didn't do it consistently.

Let's not act like his defense being overrated is a huge surprise, analysts have been saying it for years. The last few 1st team Defense awards have been a total joke.

some joke.

Kobe played "good" solid defense. not "lock down" defense. Too many people have lit him up consistantly to even call kobe a "great" defender. Billups, AI had great finals series over kobe's defense.

enough said. :coleman:

[The Iron Fist]

Bill Rusell has 11 rings is he better offense than Kobe?

Defense Lebron >>> Kobe deal with it.
Now count how many all Defensive teams each has made.

Thanks for trying.

[gengiskhan]

One thing about Kobe from 96-2009 is that he would always like to play the best player at his position. He would take on the challenge. But now players like Lebron and Wade( this no offense to them) they have other "defensive" stoppers on their team playing the best perimeter player.


You even saw that Kobe going at it vs Pierce & Allen in 08 and 10 he asked to take on Rondo... Lebron didnt do that until last yrs playoffs vs Rose

There is one thing asking for the assignment

another thing ability to succeed at that assignment.

Lebron did that against Rose & changed the series defensively

Kobe never ever had that ever even when he was playing 2nd fiddle to dominant shaq & was taking defensive assigments exclusively.

[gengiskhan]

Now count how many all Defensive teams each has made.

Thanks for trying.

retarded faaaak

All-D team in today's era is a joke

Even kobe know that. or else last 2 yrs, its clearly Wade over Kobe all-defensively.

Lebron had Chicago series defensively.

Kobe had non so far in his 15 years career.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe shuts his man down in the 4th quarter. LeBron shuts his team down. Same thing really.

retarded kobe jocker

Go ask Billups as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2004.
Go ask Pierce as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2008
Go ask AI in 2001 as he owned Kobe's ar$e in 2001 NBA Finals in 4th Q regularly

Kobe never played Lebron like D on Rose. NEVER!! :coleman:

[Big#50]

retarded kobe jocker

Go ask Billups as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2004.
Go ask Pierce as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2008
Go ask AI in 2001 as he owned Kobe's ar$e in 2001 NBA Finals in 4th Q regularly

Kobe never played Lebron like D on Rose. NEVER!! :coleman:
While Kobe is the most overrated superstar ever, Lebron's D is also overrated.

[The Iron Fist]

retarded faaaak

All-D team in today's era is a joke

Even kobe know that. or else last 2 yrs, its clearly Wade over Kobe all-defensively.

Lebron had Chicago series defensively.

Kobe had non so far in his 15 years career.
So exactly what year did these awards become a joke?

I just want to make sure that everyone who has won the award in that time frame doesn't get credit for them either.

Or is it just Kobe who doesn't get credit?

[Big#50]

[/CENTER] Fist]So exactly what year did these awards become a joke?

I just want to make sure that everyone who has won the award in that time frame doesn't get credit for them either.

Or is it just Kobe who doesn't get credit?
The last time Duncan made an all NBA team, it was already a joke. That's season TIM was slow as **** and constantly abused by lesser players. That was round 09. Kobe making the all NBA team over Tony Allen is all you need to know how ****ing stupid it is.

[Legends66NBA7]

As usual, the thread spirals down to who is more overrated at their aspect of the game.

[The Iron Fist]

The last time Duncan made an all NBA team, it was already a joke. That's season TIM was slow as **** and constantly abused by lesser players. That was round 09. Kobe making the all NBA team over Tony Allen is all you need to know how ****ing stupid it is.


So nobody gets credit for who professional coaches feel are the best defenders?


:roll:

[gengiskhan]

So exactly what year did these awards become a joke?

I just want to make sure that everyone who has won the award in that time frame doesn't get credit for them either.

Or is it just Kobe who doesn't get credit?

When all-Defensive first teams were exclusively reserved for Kobe despite Wade being a better defender for past 2 years.

I've seen enough Wade games since 2008 olympics after his come back, Wade was clearly better Defensively

The darth of great or very good SGs out there is helping Kobe walk into all-D first team on reputation alone.

[Big#50]

So nobody gets credit for who professional coaches feel are the best defenders?


:roll:
Coaches dont give a shit who makes it. When Tim makes the team the season that he plays his worst defense ever, specially when there were far better bigs than him, it shows how full of shit award is. If you want to talk about coaches, you should read what Jackson and Tex said about Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

Coaches dont give a shit who makes it. When Tim makes the team the season that he plays his worst defense ever, specially when there were far better bigs than him, it shows how full of shit award is. If you want to talk about coaches, you should read what Jackson and Tex said about Kobe.
Yea, they said hes one of the greatest talents they ever coached.


and if coaches don't give a shit who makes, why do they even take time to read the names on the list? Wouldn't they just randomly pick someone?

Sorry sweetie, you're not making any sense right now.

[The Iron Fist]

When all-Defensive first teams were exclusively reserved for Kobe despite Wade being a better defender for past 2 years.

I've seen enough Wade games since 2008 olympics after his come back, Wade was clearly better Defensively

The darth of great or very good SGs out there is helping Kobe walk into all-D first team on reputation alone.


So its only Kobe that doesn't get credit right?

Everyone else does?

Just want to clarify.

[chazzy]

The darth of great or very good SGs out there
Is this a Star Wars reference or a typo?

[Big#50]

Yea, they said hes one of the greatest talents they ever coached.


and if coaches don't give a shit who makes, why do they even take time to read the names on the list? Wouldn't they just randomly pick someone?

Sorry sweetie, you're not making any sense right now.
Not what they said about his D.

[NumberSix]

Laughable

[ShaqAttack3234]

So, do you actually believe lebron's defensive prime was in his sophomore year?

I mean even if you do believe that, then kobe would still have better help defense numbers, 0.8 blocks/game > 0.7 blocks/game, same amount of steals/game, but his man defense would be in another stratosphere when compared to lebron's sophomore year, while when compared to today it much closer.

Yeah, Lebron wasn't a good defender his first 3 years in the league. He was average by '07, and above average/good by '08, but certainly not in '05 when he had a career high in steals.

It shows you how misleading stats can be, particularly defensively, and more even with perimeter defenders than big men.

Actually, Kobe's '03 season is another example. He was still a very capable defender and could lock down opponents when he wanted, but as was usually the case when he scored more, he was less committed defensively. And he also gambled more and as Phil Jackson has said.

Yet I continue to be shocked at how many call it Kobe's best defensive season, which I'm convinced is soley because of the steals. Because nobody who knows about the game and watching him a lot each season could say he was better defensively in '03 than he was in '00.


I don't know about that as Scottie Pippen was still a great defensive player even at 34 years old that season. He got bumped off the all nba defensive first team because this was when Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett started annually making it every year. No shame getting bumped by two big men like them two especially when you are 34. Either way Pippen was definitely a better help defender than Kobe.

Yeah, it was unfortunate that he couldn't get all-defensive first team in '00 because of KG/DuncanZ

And you're right Pippen was still a fantastic defender, particularly help defender. Look at the WCF that year, having Pippen on Harper so he could play off him and double Shaq was perhaps the primary reason they were able to contain him, imo.

I'll definitely agree that he was a better help defender than Kobe, but I'd still say Kobe was probably the best defensive guard that year. Some will choose Eddie Jones as well.

It's a shame that Pippen was never fully healthy after 2000. He was already older, but still an excellent all around player in 2000 who did everything well, and some things exceptionally well. He was still a top 3 small forward that season behind Grant Hill and Vince Carter.



Go ask Billups as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2004.

Watch the series, Kobe guarded Rip Hamilton, and actually did a very good job. Rip was Detroit's best offensive player during that playoff run as well.

It was Payton who got torched by Billups.

[gengiskhan]

So its only Kobe that doesn't get credit right?

Everyone else does?

Just want to clarify.

You mean like Wade gets defensive credit for 2009, 2010
You mean like AI gets credit for being steals leader x 3 times

NBA media & LA media has always treated kobe like a defensive golden boy despite him being "good" defensively.

Kobe's competition is wade & wade alone. no one else. Kobe gets a "first" team wade gets 2nd. rest are history because they are basically ave defenders.

All-Defensive teams should be done away with. It has no real value anymore since today's NBA is way too offensively driven.

Back in golden era, 8-10 "very good" to "great" solid defenders competed for all-defensive first team in the "backcourt" catagory alone.

Makiing the list meant something. :coleman:

not like today.

[shrempf_on_rice]

retarded kobe jocker

Go ask Billups as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2004.
Go ask Pierce as he owned kobe's ar$e with FMVP in 2008
Go ask AI in 2001 as he owned Kobe's ar$e in 2001 NBA Finals in 4th Q regularly

Kobe never played Lebron like D on Rose. NEVER!! :coleman:


So while we're at it, why don't we also ask Jason Terry and Marion from last year's Finals? Why not Hedo and Rashard Lewis in the Conf Finals from the year before? What about Paul Pierce in the Conf FInals in 2008 the same year you mentioned?

Oh that's right... it only counts when it's Kobe

[Bond007]

So while we're at it, why don't we also ask Jason Terry and Marion from last year's Finals? Why not Hedo and Rashard Lewis in the Conf Finals from the year before? What about Paul Pierce in the Conf FInals in 2008 the same year you mentioned?

Oh that's right... it only counts when it's Kobe
:roll:

[eliteballer]

"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."


"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."


"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."


"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."


"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."


"Kobe," says Celtic Coach Doc Rivers, "might be the best help defender since Pippen."

:hammerhead:

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoyPZDCzrXM

[arifgokcen]

Best Perimeter Defender? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBcZbKvVknI)


Defense on Gasol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3O94yv4vc)

Game on the line against one of the fastest pg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72-il01a3z0)

Chase Down Blocks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qu9d6bZtpE)

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37zSTZSnD_M

[arifgokcen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37zSTZSnD_M

WTF we are talking about defense not tracy and some shitty music

[eliteballer]

Kobe locked down McGrady in the 4th and OT of that game after he was going off on other players

[arifgokcen]

Hmm mate then say so and make it clear i watched a little bir then didnt understand why this is related to the thread.

[The Iron Fist]

You mean like Wade gets defensive credit for 2009, 2010
You mean like AI gets credit for being steals leader x 3 times

NBA media & LA media has always treated kobe like a defensive golden boy despite him being "good" defensively.

Kobe's competition is wade & wade alone. no one else. Kobe gets a "first" team wade gets 2nd. rest are history because they are basically ave defenders.

All-Defensive teams should be done away with. It has no real value anymore since today's NBA is way too offensively driven.

Back in golden era, 8-10 "very good" to "great" solid defenders competed for all-defensive first team in the "backcourt" catagory alone.




Makiing the list meant something. :coleman:

not like today.


That doesn't answer the question.

Does everyone else who won those same awards in the same period get credit or not?

[gengiskhan]

That doesn't answer the question.

Does everyone else who won those same awards in the same period get credit or not?

Hell No.

If you ask me, in today's era where defensive competition is practically ZERO.

& at SG position, if someone is a shoe in every year for all -defensive "FIRST" team, I want that player to show that his selection is absolutely legit by being:

1. runner up DPOY or...
2. steals leader or..
3. atleast top 3 in steals or..
4. 200+ steals/ 100+ blk shots....

If he is neither of the above, give him all-D "2nd" team

Kobe or Wade. dont matter.

[The Iron Fist]

Hell No.

If you ask me, in today's era where defensive competition is practically ZERO.

& at SG position, if someone is a shoe in every year for all -defensive "FIRST" team, I want that player to show that his selection is absolutely legit by being:

1. runner up DPOY or...
2. steals leader or..
3. atleast top 3 in steals or..
4. 200+ steals/ 100+ blk shots....

If he is neither of the above, give him all-D "2nd" team

Kobe or Wade. dont matter.


So Kobe in his prime was a better defender than Lebron.

Thanks for trying.

[arifgokcen]

So Kobe in his prime was a better defender than Lebron.

Thanks for trying.
no he was not
good job trying

[The Iron Fist]

no he was not
good job trying
Actually, he was.

Don't cry.

[1987_Lakers]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?260277-Better-defender-in-his-prime-Kobe-or-LeBron


I can honestly say that at times I feel like Kobe is placed on the All-Defensive 1st Team simply because of his name and not because of his defense. Don't get me wrong here. Kobe is a great defensive player, but he's probably been an All-Defensive 1st Team player a handful of times in his career. More of a 2nd Team guy imo.

I think LeBron is the better defender simply because his height can, does and will ward off offensive players a bit, making them rethink their shots, rethink driving into the lane, rethink passing the ball anywhere in the lanes.

This Laker fan knows, problem is most people want to be bias towards their teams and players, but I'm not having that.

I will always be objective to the truth no matter what.

[Orange_Cassidy]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?260277-Better-defender-in-his-prime-Kobe-or-LeBron



This Laker fan knows, problem is most people want to be bias towards their teams and players, but I'm not having that.

I will always be objective to the truth no matter what.

no wonder this thread favored lebron. 2012 during lebrons best season and kobes downfall


isn't there a poll out today asking whos better and kobes winning ( on a board ran by Lenuttriders with 50 alts each ). you should stay more updated on your sources

[ScottieQuitting]

Kobe.

LeBron only played defense in 2011, 2012, and 2013. Pretty good team defender / rotation guy. Decent on ball.

Love it or hate it, Kobe was a fantastic on ball defender, and decent team / rotation defender. Played exceptional defense in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

[tpols]

He's ho'ing around the world lmao. Bumping threads from 8 years ago.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe is the most overrated defender of all time. he had maybe 2-3 years of being worthy of being on the all defensive team.

I agree DuMa

[The Closer]

Lebron easily, Miami Lebron was arguably the most versatile defender ever and the best help defender I have ever seen

On ball defense I would give a slight edge to Kobe but overall defensive impact easily goes to Lebron

[Orange_Cassidy]

He's ho'ing around the world lmao. Bumping threads from 8 years ago.

i broke this dudes brain to the point where hes replying to a guys post from 2012 saying "i agree"

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron easily, Miami Lebron was arguably the most versatile defender ever and the best help defender I have ever seen

On ball defense I would give a slight edge to Kobe but overall defensive impact easily goes to Lebron

good post

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe's 1st team all defenses are unbelievably bogus. I love it when Doug Collins called him out for this years ago saying coaches just voted for him because they were too lazy to really think it over. Kobe at his best was a good defender but nowhere near the impact Lebron has.

Big if true.

[Orange_Cassidy]

Big if true.

I broke this guy so bad today it knocked him 10 years into the past and got him talking to ghosts

[1987_Lakers]

I broke this guy so bad today it knocked him 10 years into the past and got him talking to ghosts

My planned worked, I bumped an old thread proving I was right and you followed me right into the old thread having a legit meltdown.

:roll: