Harden or Ibaka...who do OKC keep?

[CardiacKemba]

So there's a chance OKC will have a lose either Ibaka or Harden at some stage over the next year or so, as both will be worth large contracts and it will be extremely hard for them to keep both of them under the cap, especially with Durant and Westbrook considered the future of the organization and signed into the long term (I don't know the exact details).

So, if you're OKC management, who do you keep?

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/files/2011/04/thunder-harden-celebrates-three.jpg

Harden: 6th man of the year candidate. Versatile scorer, good defender. Running the teams second unit has been of huge importance to OKCs success. But how long does it take before he deserves the start? Could he play alongside Westbrook in a starting role?

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nick+Young+Serge+Ibaka+Oklahoma+City+Thunder+HyUbp 8X-Lrpl.jpg

Ibaka: Huge defensive presence for a team not otherwise known as a defense-based team. Gives nearly 5 blocks a game. Forces opposition teams into questioning driving into the lane, knowing Ibaka will be there to stop them. Jump shot is improved, and has potential to develop into a decent attacker. Is Ibaka defence replaceable though?

What are your thoughts?

[KDthunderup]

Harden

But we will keep both thanks

[Rowe]

I thought it was common knowledge that they'll keep both & amnesty Perkins. With them experimenting with their lineup with Durant at the 4 & Ibaka at the 5, that makes Perkins expendable from a longterm perspective due to his salary. Ibaka will continue to develop into a C.

With a Luxury Tax of $70 Million they'll be able to invest in keeping their "Core 4" at a figure between $55-$58 Million, while using the rest of their money to spend for cheap, veteran role players looking to win a ring & rookies.

[blablabla]

they can keep both

[arifgokcen]

There is no way they can keep both of them.Technically not possible.In 4 years, they would have to pay more than 80$ million tax.Thats not possible.Even if they amnesty perkins,they will not be able to retain one of those players.Because both of those players will require max. contracts.Add that to RB,KD contracts you are looking at almost 70 million luxury tax for just 4 players.That means rest of the roster would be leftovers,vet min and 2nd rookies.Thats not a team.So they will have to choose one of them

[KDthunderup]

There is no way they can keep both of them.Technically not possible.In 4 years, they would have to pay more than 80$ million tax.Thats not possible.Even if they amnesty perkins,they will not be able to retain one of those players.Because both of those players will require max. contracts.Add that to RB,KD contracts you are looking at almost 70 million luxury tax for just 4 players.That means rest of the roster would be leftovers,vet min and 2nd rookies.Thats not a team.So they will have to choose one of them
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Eric Cartman]

From a basketball standpoint i'd go with Harden. Amnesty Perkins not to sign Ibaka necessarily, but to get some cap flexibility.

[wagexslave]

Harden is too good to stay a 3rd option for much longer. A lot of teams will be willing to pay him more than OKC will be able to afford to.

[roffie]

the guy that just dropped 40points

[chips93]

Harden is too good to stay a 3rd option for much longer. A lot of teams will be willing to pay him more than OKC will be able to afford to.

maybe he wants to be part of a perennial contender, than be the man on a much worse team

will he decide to be joe johnson or manu ginobili?

[wagexslave]

maybe he wants to be part of a perennial contender, than be the man on a much worse team

will he decide to be joe johnson or manu ginobili?
Money talks.

[blacknapalm]

I thought it was common knowledge that they'll keep both & amnesty Perkins. With them experimenting with their lineup with Durant at the 4 & Ibaka at the 5, that makes Perkins expendable from a longterm perspective due to his salary. Ibaka will continue to develop into a C.

With a Luxury Tax of $70 Million they'll be able to invest in keeping their "Core 4" at a figure between $55-$58 Million, while using the rest of their money to spend for cheap, veteran role players looking to win a ring & rookies.

interesting. i never did the math but i suppose they can give both near max contracts if they amnesty perkins? btw, i think they put durant at the 4 because he's effective in the post in spurts and he's been more vocal about it in the past.

OKC will have a hard time matching harden. i'm a big fan of both but i have to think that harden is more replaceable. ibaka has a more unique skillset and defensive impact. that's why i think OKC should do what it can to win in the next couple seasons. that said, i think wb is the most trade-able piece. he's a better version of monta ellis imo and i just have hard time seeing him as the #2 option as long as he's slotted as PG. people will just say i'm hating but have maynor/harden run PG by committee and i just don't see a major dropoff. if you put rondo on that team, i just think they're dominant especially when you consider his rebounding and TO numbers. rondo is almost tailor made for that team especially since he can initiate fast breaks and is just an elite passer/ball handler

[Pacquiao]

maybe he wants to be part of a perennial contender, than be the man on a much worse team

will he decide to be joe johnson or manu ginobili?

Will he stay for the rest of his career being a 3rd option? or join a team where he can get Max contract and can avg 25 PPG and become a star of this league.

[chips93]

Money talks.

usually, yeah

it will be interesting to see what he does

he seems like a bright guy, maybe he wont be enamored with the idea of being 'the man', and he could be part of something much bigger, become a real part of nba history, as a key piece on what should be a title contender for the next ten years

we'll just have to wait and see

[All Net]

There is no way they can keep both of them.Technically not possible.In 4 years, they would have to pay more than 80$ million tax.Thats not possible.Even if they amnesty perkins,they will not be able to retain one of those players.Because both of those players will require max. contracts.Add that to RB,KD contracts you are looking at almost 70 million luxury tax for just 4 players.That means rest of the roster would be leftovers,vet min and 2nd rookies.Thats not a team.So they will have to choose one of them

Who would give them max deals?

[maybeshewill13]

interesting. i never did the math but i suppose they can give both near max contracts if they amnesty perkins? btw, i think they put durant at the 4 because he's effective in the post in spurts and he's been more vocal about it in the past.

OKC will have a hard time matching harden. i'm a big fan of both but i have to think that harden is more replaceable. ibaka has a more unique skillset and defensive impact. that's why i think OKC should do what it can to win in the next couple seasons. that said, i think wb is the most trade-able piece. he's a better version of monta ellis imo and i just have hard time seeing him as the #2 option as long as he's slotted as PG. people will just say i'm hating but have maynor/harden run PG by committee and i just don't see a major dropoff. if you put rondo on that team, i just think they're dominant especially when you consider his rebounding and TO numbers. rondo is almost tailor made for that team especially since he can initiate fast breaks and is just an elite passer/ball handler

I love Westbrook, and I really do not want to lose him, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't wondered how the team would run with Rondo at the point. I think Rondo's contract is smaller too? Possibly freeing up some more money to throw at Ibaka/Harden?

[dunksby]

I have faith in Presti, he has not disappointed yet, why would he start now? Harden is a star already, he is smart and knows what's what. Harden will the new and improved Manu.

[Pointguard]

Who would give them max deals?

They're both very unique and solid players. Right now all of the lottery teams would max both of them. And with two more years of development it seems certain, as they will have great playoff experience and one can anchor defense and the other runs the team better than its stars can. Harden is an all around player and has a great understanding of the game. He's a lot like Ginobli but will have better regular seasons numbers across the board. I could see him averaging Gin's peak regular season ('08) for many years. The only weird thing about lefties is that they peak earlier than right handed people do and usually fall a little short of your projection of them - weird but its consistent. But he will know his teammates better and will likely get more minutes just the same and that alone will put him at about 19/5/5 ish.

Ibaka has a lot of potential and if he got the ball more he would be very intriguing. But how many touches can he get in OKC being the fourth option? He's capable of getting DH block numbers and offensive numbers when DH was his age. He won't be the rebounder or overall defender but he has a pretty good touch. There just aren't too many good big men and he could potentially be a top ten big that consistently will lead the league in blocks. So both already have a lot of value - after two years of deep playoff experience they are going to be near max level.

[PP34Deuce]

They may like OKC but if you are a 23-24 year old player who has bee to WCF and had play off success with numbers...the next thing you wanna do is get paid.

Harden can easily command a 13-14 mill a year contract
Same with Ibaka.

you keep the big man who has potential to guard the premier PFs in the league.

[j3lademaster]

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Ibaka. Big averaging 3.6 bpg who's shown a decent midrange touch and nice athleticism. How do you say 'no' to that? Ibaka has the potential to be a dominant center (in today's standards), making him to be the rarer talent.

[stallionaire]

Love how OKC fans think that no one will offer Ibaka or Harden better deals than what the Thunder have.

[Qwyjibo]

They probably won't have much of a choice. Unless they get really creative, Harden might be out of their price range so they'll settle on Ibaka and still have a great team.

I don't see any reason why Harden doesn't get whatever the max is for a post-rookie deal contract. Whether he's worth it or not doesn't matter. Market will dictate the price and for a young player like him, some team will risk giving him a max deal. If Harden's agent is smart, he doesn't agree to any extension unless it's a max deal because he will get one if he reaches restricted free agency. As a Raptors fan, I wouldn't mind if they threw that kind of money at him.

[ILLsmak]

They're both very unique and solid players. Right now all of the lottery teams would max both of them. And with two more years of development it seems certain, as they will have great playoff experience and one can anchor defense and the other runs the team better than its stars can. Harden is an all around player and has a great understanding of the game. He's a lot like Ginobli but will have better regular seasons numbers across the board. I could see him averaging Gin's peak regular season ('08) for many years. The only weird thing about lefties is that they peak earlier than right handed people do and usually fall a little short of your projection of them - weird but its consistent. But he will know his teammates better and will likely get more minutes just the same and that alone will put him at about 19/5/5 ish.

Ibaka has a lot of potential and if he got the ball more he would be very intriguing. But how many touches can he get in OKC being the fourth option? He's capable of getting DH block numbers and offensive numbers when DH was his age. He won't be the rebounder or overall defender but he has a pretty good touch. There just aren't too many good big men and he could potentially be a top ten big that consistently will lead the league in blocks. So both already have a lot of value - after two years of deep playoff experience they are going to be near max level.

You're crazy nobody would give them a max deal. 10 mil, sure... max no.

I'd keep Ibaka, IMO if I had to choose. There is more chance of getting a cheaper replacement for Harden. Is Perkins that bad that they'd amnesty him? I thought he was a vital part of their team, but I haven't watched them this year.

-Smak

[j3lademaster]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Why is it so farfetched for Harden and Ibaka to get big contracts? It's very realistic a bad small market team will offer one of them an over-inflated contract to put butts in seats. Maybe they won't be max contracts, but please believe they can very well be offered contracts well beyond what okc can afford to give them. Just comes down to whether they want $$$ or playing on a contender.

[Qwyjibo]

Why are people laughing at the possibility of Harden getting a max deal? It's very likely and I personally think it will happen if he reaches restricted free agency. If Harden's agent believes the same thing then they shouldn't settle for anything less from OKC and if they really want to keep him, force them to match in RFA.

Ibaka though? I agree. I don't see anyone giving him a max deal.

[Pointguard]

You're crazy nobody would give them a max deal. 10 mil, sure... max no.

I'd keep Ibaka, IMO if I had to choose. There is more chance of getting a cheaper replacement for Harden. Is Perkins that bad that they'd amnesty him? I thought he was a vital part of their team, but I haven't watched them this year.

-Smak
Wow, Ill, you must be crazy. All indications are he will be a 20/6/5 guy that was the stabilizing force on a team that will have great playoff experience. With a max of 22/7/5 which is max money alone, despite contending with two other stars. There will be five or six players with that type of pedigree in the league and none as a second option much less third option on championship caliber teams.

[Nanners]

if i have to pick one, i say keep ibaka. if you adjust ibakas blocks for his lack of minutes, he is close to 5 blocks per 36 minutes.... thats flat out absurd. at 22 years old, it is obvious that ibaka is basically a once in a decade type of talent in terms of blocks. the most overrated coach in the nba should be playing ibaka more than 26 minutes per game :mad:

okc is going to get exposed in the playoffs again this year, not because of russel immaturity or the fact the team doesnt have a post scorer, but scotty brooks the horrible coach.


edit: I think harden will get a max deal. there are teams out there with cap space that would love to bring the beard on board. Ibaka is going to get the max too, if not from the thunder, from someone else. I guarantee that one of the 30 teams in the league will be willing to offer the 22 year old #1 shot blocker in the league a max deal. If Deandre got offered 10 million last year, Ibaka will get offered the max.

[D-Wade316]

James Harden

[alenleomessi]

Keep both, waive Durant

Nah im just kidding

[AMISTILLILL]

I would be shocked if the Thunder didn't contort their cap situation in such a way that accommodated both players and kept them with the team for several more years. Although it does seem Harden could potentially pull in a Rashard Lewis level contract at some point down the line.

Amnestying Perkins takes $25+ million off the books over the span of 3 seasons, which softens the blow of signing other sizable contracts. When comparing their value and overall production, comparisons between Perkins to Harden/Ibaka are laughable.

Perkins brings grit, veteran experience and that familiar Boston attitude to the Thunder front court, but let's be honest: He's been pretty underwhelming in his time with Oklahoma City. The Thunder could replace his impact on the box score through intelligent trades.

Whoever claimed these guys, particularly Ibaka, would demand max contracts needs to get their head checked. While I'm sure they both recognize their impact on the team, they're not yet at a point where they can field those sorts of offers from teams.

Hell, Perkins had his reputation as a defensive stalwart on a championship team and didn't even get close to a max deal... in a league super thin at the center position. Ibaka is already putting up numbers 3 years in equal to, if not BETTER, than Perkins has in his career in multiple statistical categories.

[Whoah10115]

Durant at the 4 would be garbage. Out and out, they'd be a nothing team.




Ibaka at max contract? Maybe if he was actually playing center.




And by the way, I might somewhat consider taking back what I said about Ibaka being a center. Offensively, in a running system, sure. Defensively...he's not an under the basket rim protector. He's really a freelance player so I'm no longer sure. Perkins is actually a good fit what Ibaka does defensively. But the rest of the team has to improve and Ibaka also has to improve his overall defense by a lot.

[midatlantic09]

They should keep both. Although he's a great defensive presence, Ibaka is a not a max money player (at least I don't think so).

[knickswin]

Harden! He's more than just a good role player. He's an out-and-out good player who can win games for them.

[chazzy]

Harden easily

[Nanners]

Just wait until ibaka can get out from under scotty brooks thumb and starts playing 36 minutes with more offensive freedom, people will see how much he is really worth. If Nene can get the max and Deandre can get 10 million... you bet your ass ibaka is gonna get paaaaid.

take ibakas 8 / 8 / 3.6 in 27 minutes per game and adjust that to 36 minutes... thats a double double and 5 blocks, thats a guy worth a max deal.

[AMISTILLILL]

Just wait until ibaka can get out from under scotty brooks thumb and starts playing 36 minutes with more offensive freedom, people will see how much he is really worth. If Nene can get the max and Deandre can get 10 million... you bet your ass ibaka is gonna get paaaaid.

To be fair, Nene getting that contract was more of a panic move by Denver than anything else. They made no moves of real substance after the lockout and I think, in Melo's absence, they figured they needed to fill the 'superstar' role somewhere... and Nene was the closest fit. Eventually, as the season petered on, they realized a) he's not worth the money and b) they operate just fine as a mid-2000s era Pistons "no discernible superstar" unit. Hence, the trade with the Wizards.

[Nanners]

To be fair, Nene getting that contract was more of a panic move by Denver than anything else. They made no moves of real substance after the lockout and I think, in Melo's absence, they figured they needed to fill the 'superstar' role somewhere... and Nene was the closest fit. Eventually, as the season petered on, they realized a) he's not worth the money and b) they operate just fine as a mid-2000s era Pistons "no discernible superstar" unit. Hence, the trade with the Wizards.

there are like 30 teams in the league? i am certain that at least one of them will be willing to offer max money for a 22 year old defensive anchor, a guy likely capable of averaging a double double with FIVE blocks given appropriate minutes and freedom.

look at how much money the nets threw at crappy players when they went panic mode during last free agency... they will have big money again this year. the rockets, the blazers... a lot of teams with plenty of cap space looking for a defensive anchor. i could see the blazers offering the max to harden or ibaka just to make it difficult for OKC to keep them both, jealous division rivals fallen on hard times.... they offered turk like 10 mill a year recently too so they have no problem spending money, and they basically did the same thing with the jazz and wesley matthews.

[StateOfMind12]

I have a question.

If Harden were offered a max by some team that is willing to give him a max and there is no doubt in my mind that will happen, does OKC have to match in order to keep Harden? Because what If Harden wants to stay in OKC and is willing to take less money to do so? Does he still have to go to that team that offered him in the max or does it end up becoming up to Harden?

[Nanners]

I have a question.

If Harden were offered a max by some team that is willing to give him a max and there is no doubt in my mind that will happen, does OKC have to match in order to keep Harden? Because what If Harden wants to stay in OKC and is willing to take less money to do so? Does he still have to go to that team that offered him in the max or does it end up becoming up to Harden?


pretty sure he is allowed to stay if he wants to. if my memory serves, other players have voluntarily taken pay cuts or restructured their contracts in order to help their team keep other players on the roster. i expect harden would follow the money though, most guys do unless they are veterans hunting for a championship.

[knickswin]

I have a question.

If Harden were offered a max by some team that is willing to give him a max and there is no doubt in my mind that will happen, does OKC have to match in order to keep Harden? Because what If Harden wants to stay in OKC and is willing to take less money to do so? Does he still have to go to that team that offered him in the max or does it end up becoming up to Harden?

if he's a restricted free agent, that means OKC has the ability to match any other team's offer. but if they don't, harden is free to walk to that team.

of course, he can stay for less money. he probably won't do that, however.

[LABean]

It depends on how well they play in the playoffs.
Teams will offer them a max contract if they play very well. Book it.

[Smoke117]

IF they could actually only keep one, Harden for sure. Ibaka is without a doubt the most overrated "defensive" big man in the league.

[FindingTim]

If I were starting a team from scratch, I'd pick Harden
but with the way OKC is currently built, I'd lean toward Iblocka

[zac]

I saw @HPbasketball talk about this the other day, if you're the Bobcats why not throw a huge offer at Harden to see what happens? I know he'd rather stay in OKC but he's be the #1 guy in Charlotte and would be making a ton of money. OKC fans are crazy if they don't think teams with cap space will try and steal these guys away with huge money.

[Qwyjibo]

I saw @HPbasketball talk about this the other day, if you're the Bobcats why not throw a huge offer at Harden to see what happens? I know he'd rather stay in OKC but he's be the #1 guy in Charlotte and would be making a ton of money. OKC fans are crazy if they don't think teams with cap space will try and steal these guys away with huge money.
Exactly.

I honestly wouldn't mind if the Raptors threw a max deal at Harden. If you are a team that isn't located in LA, NY or Miami then you will have to overpay any free agents to simply have a chance at signing them. A young and productive player like Harden is the ideal target for a deal that would carry some risk (overpaying) with it.

IMO, the only way OKC is keeping Harden is if they choose him over Ibaka at a fair extension or Harden out of the goodness of his heart takes less money.

[Whoah10115]

Ibaka is nothing resembling an anchor.




People toss that word around for anyone. An anchor is something that weighs the ship down. It holds down the base. Think of an actual anchor. Ibaka is more of a roamer.




Was Lavar Arrington an anchor?

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Lmao why would Harden sign with the Thunder for historical purposes. Okc fans are so stupid and niave. Thats like saying maybe the undertaker will take a pay cut for a chance at a title. The title lacks any meaning or significance. While money makes the world go around.

[Westbrook0]

Lmao why would Harden sign with the Thunder for historical purposes. Okc fans are so stupid and niave. Thats like saying maybe the undertaker will take a pay cut for a chance at a title. The title lacks any meaning or significance. While money makes the world go around.

Yeah, those idiots. That's like saying Ginobili will stay with the Spurs, or Bosh would take less than max to join the Heat when they could both easily be the top guy elsewhere.

[cteach111]

harden could be an all-star or perhaps more than that. he's putting up some absurd numbers as a sixth man.

If they had to choose, I think they'd keep Harden.

[maybeshewill13]

Love how OKC fans think that no one will offer Ibaka or Harden better deals than what the Thunder have.

Who thinks that? You're an idiot.

[wagexslave]

Yeah, those idiots. That's like saying Ginobili will stay with the Spurs, or Bosh would take less than max to join the Heat when they could both easily be the top guy elsewhere.
:facepalm Fail. Bosh is making more money with the Heat than he could anywhere else. Florida players don't get their payments taxed.

[lilgodfather1]

I hope Cleveland offers Harden a max deal. If nothing else it makes the Thunder a team that can't improve through free agency for the forseeable future.

Not to mention that though Cleveland may not be a big market, compared to OKC it is like living in NYC. Cleveland at that time will be a team with a star PG, one of Davis/Drummond/Beal/MKG, whoever their 2013 lotto pick is, and will be looking for a wing player to complete their roster. Cleveland could make some real noise in the 13-14 season if they signed Harden.

[lilgodfather1]

:facepalm Fail. Bosh is making more money with the Heat than he could anywhere else. Florida players don't get their payments taxed.
Propertytax helps make up the difference.

[wagexslave]

Propertytax helps make up the difference.
That's the players' choice to decide. You could choose to live in an average every day normal house and save a crapload of money until you're playing in a different state for a different team where a nicer house would be cheaper, or you could go all in and milk your contract for every penny it's worth and get the nicest Miami beachfront house out there and pay the price.

[miggyme1]

If i was okc id keep both.both players are championship caliber players.great character guys also.what i believe is okc will keep fisher.dump sefolosha,cook,maynor and draft a sf/pf.i think okc will be able to keep everybody including perkins!Ibaka in my opinion is better suited at the pf.he has a good jump shot so he is gonna want to take jumpers as his offensive game grows.plus if okc wanted ibaka to be the center of the future they would have never traded jeff green.i can also possibly see okc moving westbrook to sg and start jackson at pg.have harden still come off the bench but have starter mins like a ginobili type player and just move westbrook to pg wen u substitute harden in.Then substitute westbrook out for fisher

[Scholar]

I'd want to keep Harden, but this is a tougher choice than some might think.

Without Ibaka, OKC wouldn't have too much of a dominating inside presence. They need someone like Ibaka to intimidate the opposition from driving the lane.

With that said, both of these players will be worth more than they're currently being paid. Harden can get paid millions more while actually being a starter on almost any other team in the league.

Hell, I'd love for him to sign with LAL so he can come off the bench for a couple of seasons behind Kobe, and once Kobe retires, he'd be the starter and franchise superstar alongside Bynum...
































One can dream, right?

[NumberSix]

:facepalm Fail. Bosh is making more money with the Heat than he could anywhere else. Florida players don't get their payments taxed.
Although it's true that Florida has no state tax, that's not really the way the NBA works. If I remember correctly, all NBA players don't pay taxes the way regular citizens do. They all pay an average of what each cities tax laws and the NBA is who actually pays the taxes in each market.

[Doctor Rivers]

So if Harden doesn't return to OKC next season, will they still be championship contenders?

[maybeshewill13]

So if Harden doesn't return to OKC next season, will they still be championship contenders?

We'll have Harden and Ibaka next season, it's the season after that their contracts expire I believe.

[CardiacKemba]

We'll have Harden and Ibaka next season, it's the season after that their contracts expire I believe.

This.


But they'll likely hear out trades won't they? Or risk losing him for nothing.

[maybeshewill13]

This.


But they'll likely hear out trades won't they? Or risk losing him for nothing.

I honestly don't know.. management seems pretty confident they'll hold onto both. I think trade talks might be more likely closer to deadline than over the off-season.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I'd keep Harden. Ibaka gets a lot of blocks but I feel that his defense is a bit overrated.

[Cowboy Thunder]

U keep bolth is what you do

[MASH Transit]

Are people seriously suggesting James Harden would rather be the first option for the Bobcats than instrumental part to a dynasty? When people are referring to star talents that desire money and the glory of being a first option, why do you always fail to mention the star talents that accepted their roles on contenders and won because of it? Rodman, Worthy, Perish/McHale, Ray Allen, Bynum, Manu, etc. :confusedshrug:

[MASH Transit]

I hope Cleveland offers Harden a max deal. If nothing else it makes the Thunder a team that can't improve through free agency for the forseeable future.

Not to mention that though Cleveland may not be a big market, compared to OKC it is like living in NYC. Cleveland at that time will be a team with a star PG, one of Davis/Drummond/Beal/MKG, whoever their 2013 lotto pick is, and will be looking for a wing player to complete their roster. Cleveland could make some real noise in the 13-14 season if they signed Harden.

Yea, because Cleveland will never have to pay Irving and Davis/Drummond/Beal/MKG. He'd rather leave OKC to be in a similar situation elsewhere.

[MASH Transit]

This.


But they'll likely hear out trades won't they? Or risk losing him for nothing.

:facepalm

[Qwyjibo]

^^^

I wish I could be as naive and oblivious as you about certain things.

Yes, Harden would likely rather go to Cleveland for a max deal if OKC doesn't give him the same. It not only gives him a bigger contract now but also sets him up for a huge deal later on after a few years of being a primary option. How can anyone think otherwise?

[Midnight Toker]

^^^

I wish I could be as naive and oblivious as you about certain things.

Yes, Harden would likely rather go to Cleveland for a max deal if OKC doesn't give him the same. It not only gives him a bigger contract now but also sets him up for a huge deal later on after a few years of being a primary option. How can anyone think otherwise?


He probably would rather have a ring. The dude is on the bench in okc but he also gets over 30 minutes most nights. He's basically a starter in okc, he just comes off the bench, a place even he himself says he feels more comfortable at. He's not the feature guy , but in a good place with the thunder. Only difference is he'd win a ring in okc a lot sooner than moving anywhere else because all the top teams already have a feature guy.

[Qwyjibo]

He probably would rather have a ring. The dude is on the bench in okc but he also gets over 30 minutes most nights. He's basically a starter in okc, he just comes off the bench, a place even he himself says he feels more comfortable at. He's not the feature guy , but in a good place with the thunder. Only difference is he'd win a ring in okc a lot sooner than moving anywhere else because all the top teams already have a feature guy.
Again, I point to my Joe Johnson example since Harden is in the exact same situation.

If Joe Johnson stayed in Phoenix (a great team), do you think he would have been able to play his way into that 6 year $120 million deal he got? I sure don't think so. It's not just about the money now, it's also about the money later. And that contract is generally the last big deal players receive in their careers unless they go on to be HOF level players.

OKC fans are hoping that Harden will be one of the exceptions to the rule that athletes go where the money is. I understand that. But hoping something happens is very different than what is likely to happen based on what we've seen in the past and logic. Harden would be smart to go elsewhere unless OKC gives him a max deal.

[Midnight Toker]

Again, I point to my Joe Johnson example since Harden is in the exact same situation.

If Joe Johnson stayed in Phoenix (a great team), do you think he would have been able to play his way into that 6 year $120 million deal he got? I sure don't think so. It's not just about the money now, it's also about the money later. And that contract is generally the last big deal players receive in their careers unless they go on to be HOF level players.

OKC fans are hoping that Harden will be one of the exceptions to the rule that athletes go where the money is. I understand that. But hoping something happens is very different than what is likely to happen based on what we've seen in the past and logic. Harden would be smart to go elsewhere unless OKC gives him a max deal.


Assuming Harden would get a max deal. Perceived worth isnt the same as actual worth. He may go off for 30 or 40 points once in a while but he hasnt been consistent enough to warrant max money, not yet. He has the ability and is probably going to be one of those players, but not just yet. now im sure some team thinks so and would drop their panties for him. I do know thunder can give him good money and dangle the carrot of playing on a team in a system that will make him successful and give him a chance at a ring- a better chance than you'd get out of any team that could actually afford to give him max money.

Especially if they get rid of perkins and use his salary to supplement that of harden's and ibaka's. ANd as far as hoping it will happen, yea its hope, but not impossible. They drafted him, they molded him, his best buds are thunders. Westbrook stayed for a bit less than he could have gotten elsewhere- to be the premier #1 guy. Harden would be smart to stay for slightly less than the huge payday, and get his big payday the next contract. this way he gets some hardware to go along with all that green.

[Doctor Rivers]

Jordan has been tanking to get Harden on the 'cats